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Verizon Crippled Bluetooth Features in Motorola V710
djdoubles writes "Apparently Verizon Wireless has put firmware with crippled Bluetooth features in the new Motorola v710 phone. A lot of people have been anticipating a Bluetooth phone from Verizon, only to be disappointed by lack of OBEX. Verizon says they have no plan to add OBEX because it doesn't fit their business model--greedy bastards. PC Magazine doesn't have very nice things to say either. More discussion here."
I recognize the fact that if Verizon tells me I don't need something, then I don't need it.
Would you rather get shoot with by the BlueSniper with a virus-outy BlueSnarf dart? And we wonder why Ericsson is moving on to other projects - highlighted from the greedy bass-turd article ...so wireless carriers can charge people... Gotta get paid ya know.
And if you really want a blue tooth phone there is a nifty niche and free capitalist market called eBay.
They do everything possible to keep people from downloading apps, tones, etc directly to the phone. No J2ME on any Verizon phone, as far as I can tell.
Better to use T-Mobile or Cingular in the US.
My main wishes in a bluetooth phone are dial up networking and cord-free headsets. For those of us who carry PDAs anyway with a SD card slot, there's an easy workaround for picture transfering- just use your PDA whenever your phone gets full, and at the end of the day before you sync your PDA.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
How DARE they refuse to offer me a feature I don't want!
GREEDY BASTARDS!
Is bluetooth not "Beta" to 802.11s "VHS" anyways?
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
It's not only the bluetooth support that is lacking. The colors in the camera are really bad to!
oh... and you can use iSync with the usb cable, just not over bluetooth
What I don't see is how their business model suffers when a phone's feature exists by default and an extra effort is needed to reduce functionality. They're the ones setting the price, anyway. (since the firmware is being crippled by Verizon, not the OEM, right?)
It's not like it's a customer service issue. They use flashcards for that anyway.
It would be cool if it didn't suck.
I've been quite happy with this phone since my purchase of it a month ago, I wish it had full Bluetooth support and I was told only yesterday by customer service that an update will be out in 3-4 weeks to enable full Bluetooth support.
Syncing of phonebook here I come!
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
Verizon's business model is to force people to place all communications through *them*, regardless of the sensibility of that network model. They're protecting their wireless empire as hamfistedly as they protected their dialup model, charging people 10x for "data lines" for modems over 9600bps, seeking Congressional protection from "always on" ISPs, crushing DSL competition. Too bad the WiFi genie's already out of the bottle. In the future, circuit-switched landlines and CDMA radios might only serve as backups, when our fibers and WiFi associations fail. With luck, the DSL conquest won't be repeated by Verizon Wireless, since colocation infrastructure isn't as necessary.
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make install -not war
...their crippled version BlueBalls. All that promise of sexy features, getting everyone excited, then not delivering the goods.
This isn't the first time Verizon Wireless has crippled a phone. Motorola's T720 phone was also the victim of a nasty hack. The T720 was designed to use Java and Verizon uses Qualcomm's Brew for their Get It Now service. Java was stripped from the phone, not to mention other features like being able to recieve pictures via SMS Messages or the builtin web browser.
What are *you* complaining about? In fact, *how* are you complaining, by using Slashdot? Don't you know that the Internet can give you a virus? Throw away the computer, and never worry about viruses again. Same goes for dating...
The Ericsson is moving on from *inventing* Bluetooth, to capitalizing on its innovations through mere marketing. That's how tech capitalism works. And since you won't be using eBay anymore, to avoid getting scammed, you might not be interested in learning that Bluetooth phones need a telco carrier, like Verizon. Boy, are you lucky you won't have to make any hard choices anymore.
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make install -not war
I was pretty disappointed to find out they strip midi files from incoming emails. Making it impossible to send yourself free ringtones.. It's even worse that certain polyphonic phones can't receive SMS messages with midi files either. I had to resort to a motorola phone programmer and USB cable. It's unfortunate, alot of people would never go that route to get a dollar ringtone into their phone.
Since when is it such a crime to not implement unprofitable features? If you don't like it, buy a different phone.
I blame that evil bastard, the feature Creep.
..."if honorable business model depends on building a toll-gate where there are open roads to left and right, soon will have new business model involving burgers and fries"
I'm on a streak today... what's another "Damn the man" post?
Verizon's one of the most stuffy and non-innovative telecom companies out there. Everyone I've ever dealt with in their service/sales departments has always had the "I know what's best for you" attitude, and really didn't want to take the time to figure out what I was actually asking for and if/how they could make it happen.
buy unhindered phones.
or well, if you really like the walled garden aproach then why not, sure, give them away dollars for doing some simple stuff like moving data few feet. if their services are otherwise very cheap then as a customer it could make sense to cave into feature reductions like this, but i doubt it.
this is also why on some phones it's a bitch to get the pictures out even if the manufacturer could have very very cheapily added usb or whatever connectivity. it's left out intentionally so the networks that want walled gardens can feel good about them.
and if you claim that things like this are needed to make running a network profitable/possible.. that's just pure bullshit. you don't even need locked phones for fast adaptation, hell, i'd argue that locked phones being illegal make for a faster adaption.. much easier to compare a) handset prices b) network prices (=less bullshit hidden costs pricing).
oh and if you start with the "i'd only buy a linux based phone", the 'linux' phones coming are locked up tight - tighter than smartphones available now.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
with the 710 you cannot transfer files via BT or via USB. i have one. you can only do it via messaging (only 25 picture messages/month). or by using a transflash card (a micro sd card) that is nearly impossible to remove (you need to power off the phone and use tweezers). there are people that are working on developing usb hack to do this (as of now they can read and overwrite files on the phone via usb. but this is difficult to do and not officially supported)
furthermore, as of now, you can't even synch you addressbook/appointments via BT, you have to buy a USB cable. motorola claims they will fix this, but i doubt it.
but, verizon is still has the best coverage in the US and this phone is pretty good (flip, 1.3megapixel camera, BT(only headset and modem profiles), mp3 player, video player, upto 128mb removable flash memory, nice screen--though definitely not the best)
just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!
Verizon does not develop firmware for Motorola phones. However Motorola provides lots of internal software configuration options to allow service providers to customize features to suit their business model.
If you didn't catch this from the nuclear elephant article, he's got a reward pot going for anyone who can provide a hack to enable OBEX on the phone. I think this is a great idea... I would love to see Verizon lose control of this thing. I almost bought one of these things just to be able to sync my address book with bluetooth, and at the last minute my intuition (or experience with Verizon/Moto) saved me.
I first got cellular from U S WEST Cellular, which was sold to AirTouch, which was sold to Verizon.
I'm still on a calling plan from the original U S WEST contracts, so I have three phones, sharing 600 minutes for around US$60 per month after taxes.
Right now, I've got a Nokia from Verizon with a firmware mod to prevent any ringtones or BREW apps from running, except through the Verizon BUY IT NOW! downloader. I'd dump 'em in a heartbeat if I could get service from anyone else for a comparable price, but as it is I just use 'em for phone service and I miss out on the fancy phone features fun.
What phone companies need to realize is that phone are becoming more and more like small personal computers. They have their own set of multimedia capabilities. Take sound for example. First it was a piezoelectric 1 bit speaker, then FM polyphonic sound, now PCM audio. Hell, in Japan, I've seen quite a few phones that have TV tuners. Point being that they now have capabilities similar to desktop computers and need the same freedoms to operatate like them. That includes unrestricted data transfer, creation (ringtones, backgrounds, java games). Imagine being able to store files on your phone in a format not initially supported by it, but then having somebody write software to handle it. (Obvious /. examples being PNG backgrounds and Ogg Vorbis ringtones)
I hope Verizon either adapts or dies in regards to this.
It would be cool if it didn't suck.
My Treo 600 reportedly has everything to support Bluetooth, including traces to blank spots on its mainboard. But I'll have to upgrade to a 650 sometime later this year to get it integrated. I thought Bluetooth economies of scale were scheduled to cost $5:device by now. Maybe the Verizon "business model" screwed the 600/Bluetooth, but then Verizon took so long to deploy it that Palm targeted Sprint, which doesn't seem to have a business model beyond customer abuse^Wservice thrift.
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make install -not war
Anyone have a workaround other than a USB cable?
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
Errrr... no.
802.11x is to DV as bluetooth is to VHS-c.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Wait a minute... don't get mad yet. They are just a major corporation that has implemented a highly sought after buzzword in a highly profitable market while ignoring open standards so they can make more money.
What's wrong with that?!
I need to get a cell phone some day, they look so cool.
And provider... like in the current marketplace?
My iDEN phone is pretty cool but Nextel seems to also be really wanting end-users to use their GPRS network at outrageous rates for everything, and disabling any quasi-useful wired connectivity.
IE, if I want to send a MIDI as a ringtone without using it's web connectivity I have to use a hacked developer tool to trick it.
Or their two-tiered internet access, where the first tier is just their wap-only intranet. And the second tier is still really restricted.
AT&T wireless is pretty cool though. You can spend an extra $4.00/mon and get a public routable IP address on your phone, IIRC.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
I have been watching for a bluetooth phone on verizon. I would like to use one for an internet connection while I ride public transit.
What I found is that no one really seems to know if this phone will support EV-DO for fast data. (I'm anticipating when it'll eventually be deployed in our market here in Salt Lake).
The pcmcia cards are hopeless in Linux since they need drivers. Anyway, it's nice to use bluetooth to a phone for internet so you don't have to worry about disconnecting an antenna or pulling out a pcmcia card when you want to stow the laptop. Plus it would work great with any bluetooth PDA.
I currently use an ngage on tmobile this way but the speed is abysmal.
You know BETA is a better standard then VHS right? And that BETA standards are heavily used in the television industry. Turn on your tv right now, chances are what your watching is on beta.
;)
I say, just buy a cheaper phone that sounds good and get a seperate camera. Phone carriers will shift to suit your wants anyway. Competition is tough in the wireless industry
-- Bored? Check out my Portfolio
The first time someone posts the URL, they get modded down. Second time posted, it's modded up? Only on slashdot...
It would seem that this a trend that is occuring more often with other phones as well
:), now I know why
in the UK the sharp gx30 phone which has a megapixel camera also has a lot of restrictions in a similar fashion (very expensive, Bluetooth only avaialble for headsets, no decent file transfer etc)
ultimatly they'll just shoot themselves in the foot with restrictions like this. when I went in to get my phone, the guy at the counter was trying to get me to buy his phone the same model 2nd hand
This sounds very much like Vodaphone here in the UK. I received a GX30 as an upgrade, it was advertised to me as a bluetooth enabled phone. By Bluetooth enabled they meant headset only. I was unsuprisingly unhappy with this and changed it for the K700i. While bluetooth on this phone does work, it is still plastered with vodaphone branding and every second button links to vodaphone LIVE!
Makes me sick. The 'Works with compatible bluetooth devices' should read: 'Works with incompatible bluetooth devices'.
J
is it really crippled by not having obex? correct me if i'm wrong, but obex isn't part of the bluetooth standard is it?
isn't that like saying hp was planning on shipping a crippled computer because it didn't have a mail reader installed?
I go way back to the Airtouch days. I've been a loyal customer for close to 12 years. More recently, I've anxiously been awaiting Verizon to stock one of the upcoming Motorola Linux PDA phones. But if this is a sign of Verizon's "business model", perhaps its time to change... once my contract expires, that is.
The real practical limitation of the lack of OBEX is that the phone can't exchange its internal phonebook over BT, so if you have a BT implementation in your car, you have to re-enter your phone book in the car.
As to the limitation its really dumb for one simple reason: The phone support data exchange via a memory card, so you can move ringtones, pictures, and even MP3's to the phone to be used as an MP3 player.
If Verizon is intentially crippling this phone, its only crippled for people who can't be bothered to copy the stuff via either USB or the memory card. I suppose that means impatient teens.
For the rest of us who want to take advantage of the advanced features, its stupid and insulting, since it doesn't do what they think it does, and it really limits the BT flexibility.
Its still a nice phone though.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
In general, I like the idea of the free market economy and competition acting to drive innovation. The problem in the wireless industry is that there is a finite RF spectrum allocated, and Verizon and AT&T Wireless have the best part of it (the 800 MHz band). With so few choices, it's hard for consumers to clearly vote against bad practices like this with their dollars.
Because the government allocates spectrum, I think it is fair for the government to tell carriers that they cannot limit the functionality of the devices used on said spectrum. That would be good for the consumer and good for innovation.
Locked proprietary cellular systems are good for companies like Verizon in the short term, but it is hard to argue that this model is in the best interests of the consumer.
Because of the Transflash card slot, you can trivially copy the pictures & ringtones anyway.
Any way you look at it, it has the look and feel of a PHB decision. Its illogical, it doesn't protect any revenue stream, and causes the phone to be less useful for no good reason.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
I just ordered one of these after reading a post somewhere about an upgrade coming on or around Sept. 4th. It is said the update will include many of these missing features.
I will be very upset if this phone stays crippled.
-Pete
Soccer Goal Plans
If Verizon is indeed purposely crippling bluetooth, and has no plans to "fix" it, then they need to be looked at for false advertising. From their own website I quote:
"And with Bluetooth wireless technology, you can make hands-free, eyes-free calls, and connect to your PC or PDA whenever and wherever you want."
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
Not to troll, but honestly. Isn't it perhaps just a rung on the ladder above IR transmission? I mean the range, security, etc. isn't anything to do handsprings about. The only people I typically hear ranting and raving about Bluetooth are PHB and other execs who like cashing in on buzzwords so they sound savvy.
I personally would hope for eventual adoption of the 802.11i standard so that wifi has added security. Once that happens why not add that feature onto phones? After all most of the dataflow PHB's and execs are trying to hook into involve public wifi hotspots, corporate WLAN's, etc. Bluetooth is more for standing 10 feet away or closer from another device and using a divining rod if that doesn't work.
...they'd be glad to charge you the regular rate and not give you a phone.
Maybe the trick is to keep getting the most expensive new phone and changing providers every single time your lock-in period expires?
I would rather have my verizon phone get a strong signal at my friends house, then have it turn into a mini computer. Ringtones, and vCards, and blue tooth are all nice, but its completely pointless when I can't get a call. Verizon should spend more money on coverage and making sure that their system works than implementing options, that way maybe I won't randomly get voicemail messages that were sent two days before.
The Luxembourgish version:
The German version:
Ha! It's Blame Canada!, European style! But unlinke our North American brethren, we can at least rule out terrorism. Or is the "Bommeleer" back?
"We think it's unfair of Verizon to limit the phone in that way."
Did they just say this? What's unfair is how some people don't have food or clean water.
If you don't like the phone you don't have to buy it, that makes it completely fair.
Aww, mean Verizon not making exactly the kind of phone PC mag wants and doing stuff to make more of a profit on their services. Boo hoo.
This is free market, competition and capitalism people.
Anyone else notice how much the "brew" logo looks like the java logo?
Here is some allegedly official info.
0 63366d40aa6b144195f9ad7c0cc&threadid=444756
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?s=ccca
The crippling was on purpose (and thus unlikely to be reversed) and the planned update coming has nothing to do with Bluetooth, it's about syncing over a data cable.
And even if the V710 had OBEX, it still doesn't have sync profile, so you couldn'y sync with many things anyway.
And of course that's the ONE thing that would make a great finish to the Toyota Prius w/ Bluetooth capabilities so you can upload your address book to the car !!!!
No surprises here. Mobile operators in the US have learned that you can't close the barn doors once the cows are out, so they're only opening peep holes. And don't expect that to change. The LAST thing they want is to become typical ISPs where any third parties can deploy end-to-end solutions and they only get $ on the bits. Just cancel Verizon and move to GSM. Sure, you can't get those EV-DO data rates, but then again 802.11 is going to be everywhere anyway.
Personally I want a phone that is a phone. If I want to take a picture of any quality I will use my camera, I have a good digital and a fully manual 35mm. I don't even care if it only had three ring tones. All of the gadgets added to the phones these days are just to lure you in to buy a new phone every few months.
How many people use these features beyond their novelty?
I can't use my sig - my computer can't read my handwriting.
As the only global GSM player on the US market, they's really no other choice if you want easy phone portability, a minimally interfering carrier, decent prices, and some more goodies for wireless geeks that I won't mention here. Use a GSM carrier and you can buy any old unlocked GSM phone off eBay and it will just work, regardless of whether your carrier sells that phone, likes that phone, or has even heard of that phone. It would seem geeks and GSM would be a natural fit, yet here they are griping about Verizon or Sprint. Just dump those party poopers already.
Right, but as I understand from TFA, it seems that they will in fact sell you these features. So their security argument falls flat - surely they wouldn't make people pay for features that were too insecure to include for free?
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
It is really a great phone, and I can use the transflash card to do what I want, but I had really hoped for full support.
I doubt it will do any good, but I just sent this to them:
I am very disapointed in Verizon's stated decision not to support OBEX file transferes via bluetooth on the Motorola V710 saying it doesn't fit your business model.
I would like to use OBEX to transfer mp3 and video files on and off of the phone's transflash card for its built in player. It is nice being able to take a TV show I recorded earlier in the week, but it is a hassle when I have to pull the transflash card out of my phone everytime I want to change the content, which is daily. It should be noted the manual says not to do this, but you give me no choice.
If my transflash slot or card fails, it will be Verizon's fault.
This is the best phone that has been availible in a long time, but you are getting very bad press because of this terrible decision. It WILL IMPACT your sales, it will cause returns, even if the phone otherwise meets many peoples needs. Given the lack of a better option, I won't be returning my phone, but I will be constantly reminded of Verizon's terrible customer service everytime I pull a file on or off of my transflash card.
I am glad I switched to Cingular and picked up a V600, I like it a lot.
This works, swear to god.
About 3 years ago, one of their account people noticed that my contract had expired and I was a month to month customer. He called me, pushing a new 2 year contract. I didn't really want it, but he swore new bluetooth phones were coming that fall. Since I wanted bluetooth, and none of the other carriers had good coverage in my area, I figured why not... the new plan was cheaper and all. Seemed good.
Cut to 2 years later, with 6 months left on my contract. I have a Bluetooth PDA, laptop, and the car I was expecting delivery of (Prius) had the Bluetooth Handsfree in it. There were rumors of a Motorola with bluetooth coming soon on the Verizon network, but I couldn't risk it. I had to get out. Here's what I did...
I emailed customer support. Sounds simple, right? But the beauty of this is, a real live person emails you back. Sure, it's a form letter at first, but if you keep emailing back, and keep bringing up your original points (bluetooth, customer rep lied to me, etc), they'll go off script.
And clearly they underestimated my resolve to keep hammering at them. It cost me nothing to email them. They had customer service reps spending time trying to figure out how to respond. The time they spent with me couldn't be used for other customers... And, honestly, it was funny as hell for me.
After nearly 2 dozen back and forth emails, they agreed to let me out of the contract early. I switched to Cingular, and now have an uncrippled and fully functional bluetooth phone. And a signal. Life is good.
Your fiance usually calls you just as she finishes slobbing my knob. It's great!
I just got a motorola v600 from at&t, bluetooth works fine, I transfer pics to my laptop easily, ringtones onto it, etc. I also noticed I tend to get better reception than my friends on verizon, more coverage perhaps....
obligatory disclaimer, I dont work at/with at&t at all aside from being a customer
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
Only if you fly somewhere that uses GSM, of course. GSM isn't going to do you any good in CDMA countries like Japan.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
So go buy the phone from somebody else and pay full retail price for it and then have it activated for your Verizon account.
Have you tried this? Which major carriers do and do not support activating a phone not purchased from the carrier?
Shame, I was going to get a new phone and a new provider (just moved states), I was heavily leaning towards Verizon until reading about this situation.
What a shame. Why is the telco industry so darned screwed up, it seems uniquely stuffed up.
How about buying a phone from a phone-maker (e.g. Nokia, Ericsson, Siemens, Motorola...) ?
the only thing VZW wants to 'secure' is their get it now, text messaging, and data traffic revenue.
if this was purely because of security concerns then why don't they support the transfer of files via USB?
the reason is that they don't want to is because cellular voice traffic is commoditized and a loss leader these days. their business model is to offer competively priced and widespread availabilty of voice plans then ream everyone on data, picture messaging and other features.
this isn't necessarily bad. but when i buy a $350 phone that claims to synch and x-fer files via BT i want it to perform as advertised.
that being said, i'm still keeping my v710. furhtermore the v710 made me switch from sprint. verizon is definitely shrewd.
just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!
Your post proves your ignorance. Bluetooth has amazing utility in mobile phones, and if you knew what its capabilities were, you'd want it in your phone.
Without taking my phone out of my pocket, I can:
-Make and take calls using a headset, with no wires to snag on anything
-Sync contact and calendar info with PIM apps on my computer, without needing some expensive/proprietary/annoying cable
-Use my phone as a modem to make data calls, without needing some expensive/proprietary/annoying cable
Macs can do even more stuff with Bluetooth phones:
-View incoming call CallerID info on the computer screen, and click a button to take the call or send it to voicemail
-Send/receive SMS messages on the computer.
-Via a 3rd-party utility, the Bluetooth phone can be used as a remote control for nearly any application, particularly iTunes and the DVD Player. It can also be used as a 'clicker' when you do a presentation with PowerPoint or Keynote.
Not exactly sure how you determined this to be off topic.... It appears to be extremely relevant to the topic at hand, namely, cell service providers delivering what they promised....
Who ARE these people making these decisions? Wouldn't it be a violation of MY rights to purchase a phone because of certain features to have some of them disabled by my carrier? In much the same way as they have to let me use my existing number, shouldn't they have to use the same phone as other carriers as long as it is compatible with their networks? I don't use verizon, but it still pisses me off. The least these jerks could do is admit it is because they are greedy bastards instead of hiding behind the "unsolicited text message" excuse. Stop twisting things around and talking to people as if this was a benefit to me. Maybe I should study law....
I don't think that was Verizon's fault - all Treo600s from all providers lack bluetooth.
Underloved Movies and Pub Quiz: donotquestionme.org
Another advantage of paying full price for your own phone is that you can generally sign up for service with no contract. And now that we have number portability, you can easily switch carriers if your original carrier becomes too much of a pain in the ass.
Verizon is releasing thing phone with some features disabled, they will be enabled in November for full compliance including OBEX come November. Will someone fact check before this is posted. They released that information last monday. -GReg
they will probably release a new firmware so you can synch (addresses, phone numbers, appointments) but i doubt we'll ever get BT file transfer.
just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!
I was disappointed to buy a "Java-enabled" Sprint phone only to discover that it's essentially impossible to write my own apps for it. Seems the phone will only get apps from certain servers (for a fee, of course) to which I have no access. After some serious searching I still don't have any instructions for uploading an app through the USB port.
I assume that "Java-enabled" phones from other carriers are just as user-unfriendly. These cellular guys are a vast distance from understanding the user-controlled mentality of the open source culture. Say "user-controlled" and they'll hear "user control".
This is one reason we have standards. Any company that 'breaks' a standard for heir own advantage should be chastised and boycotted..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
What is the point of adding/enabling Bluetooth on a phone if you can use it for syncing contact, calendars, etc? One of my friends just got this phone and was having a hell of a time trying to get it to sync. Now we know why.
The gates in my computer are AND, OR and NOT; they are not Bill.
I was thinking about picking up this phone, till I went to a local Verizon store to look at it.
The keypad construction is VERY poor, infact if you place your thumb on the center of the keypad, you can slide the keypad around. Also, the keys themselves were starting to fall off the phone. The sad thing is, they had just put out the phone in the morning! I'm not signing into another 2-year contract when the phone won't last 1 day of abuse at the store.
Also the phone's battery was dead, and when the store employee hooked it up to the charger, the phone locked the interface. I don't know if that was because the battery was completely drained, or if that was the standard charging behavior of the phone).
Kormac
Maybe you folks can help me. I live in Long Island, NY. My Nextel plan ends on the 16th. I have a Tungsten T2 (built-in Bluetooth) which I want to use with a Bluetooth phone. I want decent voice quality and coverage, and a good data plan. I don't care about a camera (but, from what I've been able to tell, I can't get a BT phone w/o one).
Does this phone exist? Does this plan exist? Does this telco exist?
TIA,
-d
Unix: Where
Dear Slashdot,
Please stop writing articles about thing's that don't really matter in the eyes of a geek. We don't like to socialize.
irc.enterthegame.com #linux
The whole idea of a mobile phone operator telling the customer what kind of a handset can be used, and with what features enabled, is unthinkable here in Finland. When mobiles started to proliferate here, there was a short time when such handset/service -combimantions were sold, but they were pretty soon deemed unacceptable by the consumer protection agency. Nowadays you can change mobile operators without even changing your phonenumber in the process, which means that a number of small operators have come in to the business. Resulting in prices such as these: 0,95e monthly fee, all domestic calls 0,095e minute and text messages 0,095e a pop. And no restrictions on your handset, except that it hast to be a gsm (of course).
Verizon says that crippling Bluetooth implementation is a "fraud prevention" tactic to prevent strangers from sending unsolicited text messages to your phone.
:)
Umm... I don't buy it. They say they crippled OBEX to prevent people from sending spam via Bluetooth?
Except... one of the major specifications for Bluetooth is that it is intended for local connections, not long range. I have a USB Bluetooth adapter with a maximum range of 10 meters. Is Verizon seriously trying to tell me that local Bluetooth spam will be serious enough they had to turn it off?!
Granted, there are adapters with 100 meters (I don't actually know what the maximum range is on this specific phone), but is even 100 meters a wide enough area for spam to be a serious problem? In fact if anyone is within 10 meters attempting to spam me, there's nothing stopping me from simply walking over to... er.... "confront" the bastard
Wow that is really cool I think I will need to do that. I have used verizon and I keep calling them up and keep telling them that they keep overcharging me with the phone calls and dropped calls. And they keep trying to fix things up. thanks for the info. -A
For a LONG time, Tmobile has caused the Sidekick to have several crippled features. Supposedly, an update will finally allow the exporting of contacts, etc, that TMobile has been using for lock-in.
We'll see. They are all guilty, though some worse than others.
The strong do what they can, while the weak suffer what they must.
I've been angry with cell companies for a while now, and this is exactly why -- since coverage is so much more important than any other metric, I can't go with someone other than Verizon no matter how much I dislike them. Voting with your wallet is a crappy choice for a consumer to have to take.
If these guys were, say, a bookstore, some upstart would have come along by now and destroyed them. Since no one else can come along and suddenly have a network better than Verizon's, they can keep on hobbling the phones to preserve ridiculous fees for things like text messaging and internet (and, it appears, pictures).
What's the solution?
That is why in EU, Australia and most of Asia you have GSM mobiles which allows you to buy whatever fancy-ridden handset without crippling stuff and use it with whatever GSM SIM card from ANY provider.
As long as customers don't have REAL freedom of choice to mix, match and choose any combination of phones, providers, technology we (customers) are bound to be cheated and ripped off so called service providers.
REBEL
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
Word Up, Verizon has excellent coverage with crap phones. One or two lame models that work with Apple's iSync in my area. Once the contratc is up, I'll be a switcher.
"I don't think it's selfish, to eat defenseless shellfish." -NOFX
Seems to me that these missing features are some of Bluetooth's core capabilities. How many features can they remove before it is no longer Bluetooth?
Say what you will about the relative quality of PC vs. Apple computers, but at least in the PC world the manufacturers keep their products competitive by adding features, not subtracting them.
// I will show you fear in a handful of jellybeans.
ON my sprint T608, the send java apps feature is disabled. I can transfer Pictures and ringtones, but not Java apps and games... I am looking for a get-around
I'm not sure - I can see a scenario where Verizon didn't want Bluetooth, so all CDMA T600s (including Sprint's) dropped those chips, keeping the costs down on a single HW platform manufactured by Palm. People have succeeded in switching Sprint T600s to full Verizon service, even without Verizon knowing, or supporting them, just by reconfigs. It's kind of a conspiracy theory, but after a lifetime of "Verizon" here in NYC, I give that more credibility than mere coincidence theories :).
--
make install -not war
I wonder how well their business model will do when I don't buy their shitbox crippled phone...
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
I've been looking for a way to cripple Verizon's business model ever since they screwed me out of $130 for a month's worth of local phone service. Now all I need to do is create, say, a free SMS/WML-based directory gateway that lets people update their own and lookup their friends' addresses. Dirt simple.
I doubt it (but I have been wrong before) - it took a long time to get the phone over to Verizon, and when talking to an acquaintance working for Palm[somthing] last year he thought they would never have the Treo for Verizon.
Underloved Movies and Pub Quiz: donotquestionme.org
Hey, if you don't like their product, don't buy it. Don't whine about "greed", just don't give them your dollars.
Derek Greene
Most mobile phone vendors (at least here in germany) are happy to supply you with the newest >original firmware for your mobile phone,usually removing some slight bugs and increasing the battery time; go there and get the real one.
...), so:
Second note: Code is normally digitally signed/encrypted by the maker (Sony/Ericsson, Motorola,
The mobile phone makers are in bed with Verizon.
wont sell you a phone with JAVA.
The obvious question is, now that you can switch and keep your number, how come people (e.g. those wanting JAVA or bluetooth or whatever) dont just go to verizon and say "if you wont give me a phone with the features I want, I will go to another carrier".
Its not like verizon have a monopoly on the provision of mobile phone services in america...
well, around here they aren't. that's the whole point, it would have been possible to enact laws that made selling a phone with a mobile plan illegal.
since there would be no 'free'(it's a fallacy, they're not free, you just can't know the price) phones there would be no 'free' phones that would be paid from the regular pricing.
what you need is some serious network price/feature wars.. which you're never going to have with the 1y+ tie-in plans...
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
As an owner of a bluetooth phone (with hosed AT commands no less), the biggest value to me has been syncing with my laptop's calendar and address book via Apple's iSync. Being able to sync as often as I want to without grabbing cables, etc is a big deal. I frequently leave my phone in my pocket while syncing. It becomes second nature and I find myself less reliant on my PDA when not in my office.
I just wish I could use Salling Clicker. That would be cool.
In my experience I have not found any wireless carrier with greater coverage than Verizon. It is rated highest in the Various consumer magazines which I have checked not to mention the fact that Verizon does in fact spend more updating its network than anyone else. For people who say they are getting bad coverage with verizon (and aren't in a desert or mountain) try *228 (then send) and press option 2 to update your roaming list. Verizon builds towers quickly enough that you will notice a difference in coverage even if you do *228 as often as 3 months. As for the V710, I expect full bluetooth support to be available in the near future.
i've been wondering when the hell slashdot was going to provide information regarding this crap. radio shack, where i work (don't start), got these phones in about a month ahead of the rest of the world (or so i understand) due to a shipping error. more or less, someone leaked them to us. we've known about this bluetooth problem since a day or two after we received the phones, early august (i think, i forget). while i have no actual opinions regarding this problem, the v710 isn't exactly the greatest phone in the world to begin with. there are a variety of reasons that i won't go into, because it really isn't that important. you'd be better off with any other standard mid-range motorola phone with the $30 bluetooth adapter to add bluetooth to any (?) existing motorola phone. sure, it may look a bit goofy, but it's a shitload cheaper than the v710, which is only expensive due to it's crappy camera and the halfassed bluetooth functions. hell, blueooth can suck it, anyways. i'm sticking with my LG VX6000 until I can upgrade in a year or so, possibly to the vx7000 or the 8000, if it's out at the time. also, the current crop of vx6000's have been modified (in terms of firmware) to disallow functionality with ABNY version of bitpim. oh well. at least verizon just started carrying the yetisports games for Get It Now. so yeah, v710 is fuckin rediculously overrated.
I got tired of waiting for Verizon to provide Bluetooth, so I created my own solution months ago.
I bought a used SonyEricsson T608 that had been provisioned to Sprint. A little bit of hacking broke the MSL, and then I just used Verizon's web page to switch my service to the new ESN. Badda-Bing!
The only "trick" here was realizing that the T608 was a bluetooth enabled CDMA phone that was already for sale in the USA. After that, it was just hacking.
I'd like to see telecom providers be forced to open platforms so that people can produce open source phones.
I'm not a huge fan of cell phones, but I'd get one if I could get one that I could hack up to add whatever features I want.
May we never see th
http://unlockme.co.uk/ helps you takes off u r phone restrictions
...In Japan!
http://www.ustronics.com
Get yourself a tri-band unlocked GSM phone and the world is yours, well, the interesting part of it that is. Get a SIM card or two or three and forget verizon.
buy a motorola data cable on ebay for $1 + shipping, find the appropriate firmware, flex, and programs in various european forums, and flash. I flashed my V600 easily, don't see why V710 would be any different.
Get Bitpim and a $20 cable. You can upload/download your contacts, ringtones and wallpapers.
It doesn't have Bluetooth but it does have, IMHO, very good voice recognition and is a speaker phone for car use. Good sound quality too.
r
Who says those people aren't leaving VZW?
Scott
©20014 angrykeyboarder & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved
I have the LG VX4500.
Battery life sucks, the user interface is clumsy, the voice recognition doesn't, and Verizon puts all kinds of tricky restrictions on how much you can customize it, even plastering their banner over yours... I really miss my big old Nokia from when I was on Cingular.
I was planning on getting them to "up"grade it to the "lower end" Nokia 3589i in the hope of getting something with a better user interface and battery life, as well as third-party support for wiring it to my laptop and Clie, but after reading this thread I fear they'd cripple that as well.
Unless Verizon has properly disclaimed the fact that information about the Motorola phone should be ignored, they are using a business model that relies on customers being deceived about what product they are really buying. Unless I missed something, they really do expect to benefit from the publicity and advertising provided by Motorola, otherwise all Motorola trademarks and model numbers should be replaced by something clearly different.
I used to work in consumer electronics, we routinely had designers design completely different cases for what was essentially the same guts depending on how they were marketed. One package had our trademark, others had the OEM's.
If you must moderate, please moderate as irrelevent, not something bad, because I'm sure someone will find this interest
Fortunately there are several companies offering cell phone service. The more the better! I'm certainly interested in upgrading to an advanced phone, with quality camera and bluetooth connectivity being high priorities. My guess is that we will have good choices in these categories by 2006, in the U.S. (Maybe people in Japan already have good choices here, is this the case?)
Mail? Put "slashdot" in the subject to pass the spam filters.
Verizon says ... OBEX ... doesn't fit their business model--greedy bastards.
In the 80's I worked for a company that sold stock market data, only we thought we were selling "time-shared" mainframe computer cycles--which we billed for--while the data--which was provided without charge--was a nifty value-add.
My customers bitched that one month's bill could buy a PC. I hated being treated as evil and feared for the business. But I learned to love it when I realized they were bitching because there was nothing else they could do. We were supplying a product that they couldn't get elsewhere. (We were just pricing the wrong thing.)
Same thing here: it's hard for me to imagine that Verizon is greedier than the 8 other comm services I've used (special exception for AT&T, which is enjoying its comeuppance). The poster is whining because he likes the overall package that Verizon offers enough that he won't put his money where his mouth is, and switch over to Cingular, T-Mo, or whomever.
Betcha it's because Verizon has better coverage. VZ customers pay a "premium" in that they have to buy custom ringtones and photo transfers (that aren't worth 2 cents), but get superior (expensive) coverage at a competitive price because VZ gets those $$$ enough to rent new tower space & eqpt.
OTOH, I buy BlueTooth and GPRS data ($20 all-you-can-eat) with indifferent coverage: T-Mo drops my calls if I walk between the kitchen and my study.
The most obvious difference is that I made my bed and now lie in it. VZ could be smarter and say, "we're trying to emphasize full-service packages to ensure highest-quality service" or some such more friendly BS than "business model" mumbo-jumbo. But it'd still be the same ole same old.
"If you don't like the news, go out and make some of your own."
"Inquiring Minds Want to Know!"
Why does verizon need to see the pics of my friends and family before i can see them on my PC myself? Its a very odd thing. And in fact i'm happy it still have that old handy which someone threw away. Why does Verizon need to play big brother on pictures i have taken on my mobile phone camara ?
Robert
If their 10 million customers did that, they'd make 1.3 Billion dollars in revenue off of early termination fees alone.
...
1. Become Verizon
2.
3. Profit!
Just got the v710 with Verizon Wireless and am horribly disappointed after I got over the novelty of having the phone connect to my car. The "obeymoto" voice command is the only good thing about this phone. Otherwise it's heavy, expensive, the camera is abysmal, the UI is awkward, and the bluetooth is crippled. I don't want all those extras (SMS, MMS, games, songs, movies, ringtones, etc.), just want a good phone to talk on!! The main reason I bought the v710 was to use hands-free in my car without a cumbersome headset, but that doesn't work very well. Already I've missed some incoming calls since neither the car nor the phone announces incoming calls when they're connected via bluetooth. The lack of bluetooth obex implementation to transfer the phone book is a deal breaker. Does Verizon really expect us to spend the rest of our lives manually reentering our phone books everytime we buy a new phone?? Without obex, "bluetooth handsfree" is no different than plugging a headset directly into the phone. Wait, it's worse since you can't use obeymoto voice command over bluetooth, and the phone doesn't ring for incoming calls when bluetooth is active. Too bad I can't plug the car's microphone and speaker "handset" directly into the phone. After reading Jonathan's interview with Verizon's Brenda Raney, I'd be shocked if Verizon ever enables obex on the v710. It's easy for Verizon's sales and service reps to promise upgrades and fixes so that people don't cancel their contracts within the 15 day grace period. But after that interview we all know how Verizon does their math. The Verizon v710 is for suckers. I'm cancelling.
The Motorola 270c is BT capable as well, and its not hindered in any way.
I bought a Treo 600 from Verizon last month. I mainly wanted a PDA/phone, but I played with the web and SMS features a little bit. Only weeks later do I find out that the web connections stay up and you get charged minutes for it, unless of course you sign up for the $50/mo data package...so I have about $850 in data charges to deal with. You can even rack up charges if someone sends you a picture, because it uses the web connection to deliver it and then stays connected...in my case, all night long while roaming. I called customer service and the second person I talked with (the 1st put me on hold for 40 minutes so I hung up) said no problem, should see the credit by Tue, but still no word except for a message on my voice mail (not a call, just dropped it into my voice mail) from someone there that gives his extension but not a phone number...customer service had to reroute me twice and I then got his voice mail...and he hasn't called back in 2 days.
Two years ago, I was a Verizon fanboy. Loved the system because the service in NJ was so damn good. Then came the camera and Bluetooth phones. WHen I saw that Verizon didn't support them, I jumped ship to AT&T and got a Nokia 3650. It's a damn fine phone and AT&T doesn't cripple it. Now I can send and receive pictures to/from my phone, set wallpapers, dowload apps, and create my own wav-based ringtones. Why Verizon won't allow this is beyond me. $0.99 for a song on the iTunes Music Store and $2 for a ringtone from Verizon, AND you have to pay to transfer it? What "business model" does that fall under other than "greedy bastards"?