Ghost In The Shell 2: Innocence in Theaters

Lord Prox writes "The long wait is over, the sequel to Ghost In The Shell is here in theaters!. Titled Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence for the US market and seems to be available in a reasonably wide distribution for anime. There is also a trailer available."

Comments

how's it ?

[mirko]

Seems that people like it (7.1/10 on IMDb) but its plot line sounds like some "I, Robot".
So, is it worth it, besides the Geek Factor ?

Re:how's it ?

[deathcloset]

Besides the Geek Factor? What else is there besides the Geek Factor? :)

Re:how's it ?

[Malicious]

How is it?

Welcome to Slashdot, you might as well ask "How does it end?"

Re:how's it ?

[brainstyle]

The critical consensus isn't quite so strong, although some of the better known critics seem to like it quite a bit. The people I know who've seen it all described it as boring, but with some nice eye candy. Sky Captain, on the other hand - this, I'm excited about.

Re:how's it ?

[Gyorg_Lavode]

I don't know about this movie as I obviously haven't seen it but the first one could easily be characterized as just another robot type story. It would be a signifigant injustice as the first movie did a very good job at addressing, (though not conclusively answering), questions about where the line between man and machine blurs.

Re:how's it ?

[Conspiracy_Of_Doves]

I didn't think "I, Robot" was that bad. They just shouldn't have tried to associate it with Isaac Azimov. Apparently the original title of the script was "Hardwired". They should have kept it that way.

Re:how's it ?

[evslin]

The only thing I didn't like about I, Robot is the fact that Will Smith is in it. God I hate that guy. Otherwise it was a pretty decent summer flick.

Re:how's it ?

[ricotest]

You should check out this IMDB board posting.

Apparently there were 'massive walkouts at the Cannes' and a 30% Rotten Tomatoes rating (which is very bad). I quote:

The common complaint among critics is that while the movie is beautiful, it is souless with too much technological mumbo jumbo and not enough likable characters. The story is said to be at once extremely convaluted and boring with action sequences too far between and countless uniteresting quotes form philosophers or the bible hindering the story.

So althought it saddens me to say this, it really doesn't look like it's worth checking out. That said, everyone is different, and this is just the critics' opinion.

Re:how's it ?

[Masami Eiri]

Yes. Dude, its Ghost in the Shell, that makes it worth it. Heck, even if you don't like anime, the visuals make it worth it...

Re:how's it ?

[Anonymous Coward]

If by "visuals" you mean "boobies" then yes! Definately worth it!

Re:how's it ?

[tuffy]

The common complaint among critics is that while the movie is beautiful, it is souless with too much technological mumbo jumbo and not enough likable characters. The story is said to be at once extremely convaluted and boring with action sequences too far between and countless uniteresting quotes form philosophers or the bible hindering the story.

Sounds like a typical Oshii picture. Pretty, brooding, contemplative films are what he does nowdays. If one's looking for entertainment, go see "Sky Captain" or wait for "Steamboy".

Re:how's it ?

[Gyorg_Lavode]

After looking through rotten tomatoes it seems to follow along the same theme as the first movie, (played in a timeframe after it. I had originally thought it was placed after Stand Alone Complex and before the first movie). The reviews generally seem to lean in one of 2 ways. Either they though the movie was beautiful, deep, and technical, or they though the movie was beautiful, too deep (or just trying to be too deep), and too technical. Anyway, I can handle beautiful and technical, and I will judge for myself whether it is a faux depth.

Re:how's it ?

[MooCows]

The common complaint among critics is that while the movie is beautiful, it is souless with too much technological mumbo jumbo and not enough likable characters. The story is said to be at once extremely convaluted and boring with action sequences too far between and countless uniteresting quotes form philosophers or the bible hindering the story.

This for is the exact reason I'm going to see it..
I don't mind action movies, but I'd really like some SF other than another Alien movie or the Star Wars prequels.

Of course, this movie might not be good, but they should at least give a good reason for it.. not just "boring" or "not enough likeable characters".

Re:how's it ?

[BackwardEngineer]

Stand Alone Complex is set in an alternate universe, in which the Major never met the Puppetmaster.

Re:how's it ?

[BJH]

Note that GitS:SAC and the original GitS movie are alternative stories - they're not part of a continuous timeline.

Re:how's it ?

[Dusabre]

The common complaint among critics is that while the movie is beautiful, it is souless with too much technological mumbo jumbo and not enough likable characters. The story is said to be at once extremely convaluted and boring with action sequences too far between and countless uniteresting quotes form philosophers or the bible hindering the story.

Sounds exactly like I, so if you loved that, you'll love the new one.

On another note, I watched GITS (huh!) with the sound off to a dnb soundtrack (Sly & Robby: Stripped To The Bone) and it was really chilled out. The Superthruster DVD which has a video with GITS scenes to a dnb track inspired me.

Re:how's it ?

[Gyorg_Lavode]

It is 73% fresh w/ an average 6.7 rating at Rotten Tomatoes right now.

Re:how's it ?

[MidnightBrewer]

I liked it enough to see it twice, and that was with only understanding about 20% of the dialog. If you can watch a movie with the sound turned down and find it interesting, then it's probably a good movie. :)

Re:how's it ?

[Gyorg_Lavode]

Wait, those numbers are from Cream of the Crop. The over all is 53% (rotten) and 6.1 rating.

Re:how's it ?

[Gyorg_Lavode]

I didn't realize that. I though that SAC took place before the puppetmaster incident. Thank you for the correction.

Re:how's it ?

[L. VeGas]

I like that Will Smith. He raps happy.

Re:how's it ?

[lasmith05]

Haha... if you are complaining about too much bible/philosophy quotes and techno mumbo jumbo you obviously never checked out the first movie.

Re:how's it ?

[OverlordQ]

I dont pay attention to Rotten Tomatoes. *I* decide what movies I like, not some hack from some newspaper I've never heard of.

Re:how's it ?

[dep01]

oh no! there's not enough action sequences? and a story you have to pay attention to!? what will american audiences do!?!?

Re:how's it ?

[timts]

I dont like the first movie version of GIS and I dont like the anime series, tried this one, dont like it either. the graphic is not bad, the story is just old cliche like most anime.

Re:how's it ?

[Anonymous Coward]

With regards to good artistic movies, there is no such thing as too much philosophy, or too much depth. Unfortunately, the Ghost in the Shell franchise is not known for GOOD artistic movies. Or even good action movies. In fact, GIS is a loathsome pile of dren which certain faboys love solely because of the copious quantities of explosions and non-sensical nudity.

I'm tired of movies that attempt to philosophize about to the relationship between technology and the soul. It has been done to death, and GIS was neither the first nor the best.

Re:how's it ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I go to movies to be entertained. I want action scenes.

If I want a well written story with a great plot, I'll read a book.

Re:how's it ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like an expensive hobby.

Re:how's it ?

[penginkun]

So in other words, it's a worthy successor to the original?

Seriously though, the problem with these sci-fi "epic" type anime (Akira, GitS, Lain, Evangelion, whatever) is their convoluted story lines and (typically pathetic) attempts at being deeply philosophical. Usually one begets the other. However they arise, they always get in the way of my being able to just enjoy the show. I love the animation in Akira, but the story is SO BORING that I want to turn it off.

Re:how's it ?

[pragma_x]

Sounds like that reviewer was watching a rerun of the Matrix.

Kidding aside, seeing as how the original 'ghost' movie was obviously a point of inspiration for the Matrix, I can hardly see that as being a negative review. Part of the point behind Ghost in the Shell is that it takes cyberpunk on a deep spiritual bent, all the while bullets and cyber-carnage fills the screen.

Everything mentioned in that negative review is essential to the franchise, so I for one am not deterred in the least. :)

Re:how's it ?

[sxtxixtxcxh]

it is souless with too much technological mumbo jumbo and not enough likable characters

sounds like the perfect movie for geeks...

Re:how's it ?

[Steve Franklin]

"Sounds like a typical Oshii picture."

Indeed. Considering that, in my not so humble opinion, Oshii's Avalon is the best movie ever made on several levels, I have to imagine that the problem with the critics is that they're movie critics and not critics of neo-technical electronic literature. In short, they just don't get it, which is their problem, not mine. What, Batou isn't likeable? As for Major Kusanagi, who only has a short appearance in II, I think I could fall in love with her.... ;-)

Re:how's it ?

[Steve Franklin]

Funny, I watched Blade Runner to Hearts of Space and Echoes on FM last Sunday and I must say it didn't do the plot any harm at all. None of Oshii's movies have much dialogue, including his original anime, Angel's Egg.

Re:how's it ?

[ceeam]

Sounds like an expensive hobby

I'll answer in Morse code:

ppp2pp2p2p2pp....

Re:how's it ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I noticed that the "Cream of the Crop" score was much higher than the total score. Not sure what that says about the movie or the critics. :)

(Right now its at 48% total, 73% "cream.")

Re:how's it ?

[Steve Franklin]

Convoluted? You must think Avalon was downright labyrinthine. Personally, I like a movie I can watch a dozen times and still get something new out of it the 12th time. That to me is the difference between good cinema and the kind of pap you can hardly watch once that Hollywood likes to crank out.

Re:how's it ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well I'm sure you won;t like it as much as the Yu-gi-oh movie you saw a few weeks ago, but some of us actully appreciate the way this genre of anime contemplates the impacts of technology on society and our view of reality. You could write the same review of Akira, or the first GitS movie but you'd be missing the point.

Re:how's it ?

[PoL0]

How many of those "better known critics" have read the GITS manga?

I think it's a good idea to have some background to correctly judge something (it uses to be).

Re:how's it ?

[Anonymous Coward]

How can you have the word "innocence" in an anime film. I suppose a lot of children will lose theirs after the first tenacle rape scene kicks in.

Re:how's it ?

[penginkun]

My point was these things are so muddled that they're incomprehensible. Maybe that's OK for you. I'm guessing you liked Mulholland Dr, a beautifully shot but utterly incomprehensible film. It MUST be deep if I can't understand it, you think, so you pretend along with everyone else who's afraid to look stupid to find it intellectually stimulating.

When I'm watching a movie or a TV show, I really don't WANT to HAVE to analyse what I'm watching to derive its meaning. It's called "entertainment" and I'm watching it because-GASP-I want to be ENTERTAINED. If I want to think, I'll pick up a book.

Thing is, there are about as many different types of anime as there are people, so it's not hard to find something you like. Me, I really like the happy, fun stuff a lot more than the dark, depressing philosophical stuff. If you'd rather watch people brooding than people having fun, that's your problem, not mine. 8^)

Re:how's it ?

[ultranova]

Welcome to Slashdot, you might as well ask "How does it end?"

It doesn't, the film forms an infinite loop.

Re:how's it ?

[May Kasahara]

Shouldn't matter, especially since the source material is usually better than the movie version anyway. And there's plenty of films which one can thoroughly enjoy without having read the source material (book, comic, manga, etc.) at all-- Akira and the recent X-Men movies being prime examples. Movies are separate media altogether, and they should be judged as self-contained works first, before comparing them to the originals.

At any rate, Oshii is infamous for infusing others' manga works with his own sensibilities (see Urusei Yatsura: Beautiful Dreamer for a non-GitS example). Unfortunately, Oshii's recent work-- despite the marvelous animation-- tends to be boring as all hell. This is why I couldn't make it all the way through the first GitS movie, and why I have no plans on seeing this sequel.

Re:how's it ?

[doom]

And the review in the local San Francisco Bay Guardian Substance Abuse, says:

the average moviegoer (even one who liked I, Robot) is bound to find Innocence unbearably pretentious and boring. But mileage for those who are perhaps pretentious and boring themselves may vary.

Which makes it sound like my kind of movie.

Re:how's it ?

[bitrott]

Jesus. This sounds like every other crap anime out there. For some bloody reason Japanese animators think that throwing non-sequitor quotes from literary sources, or original nonsensical quotes makes for more intelligent dialogue. Typical example:

Female warrior contemplates the existential meaning of life. Her voice over blathers something about "life is ephemeral and I need to be like a cherryblossom!" while the screen pans across well-drawn scenery.

Laine, as cool as the art and some story elements are is another example of good art made cheese because of the storyteller's inability to articulate. I've really become disappointed in anime in general. There's too few good story-tellers out there.

Re:how's it ?

[bitrott]

"Boring" and "Not enough likeable characters" is a decent distillation of a common criticism. Many people need their stories to have entertainment value... not just pretty pictures. I havn't seen it, but I have been bored to fucking tears by plenty of anime before. Anime mistakes slow panning shots of scenery, and lengthy close ups of twitchy tear-filled eyes as effective characterization. Non-sequitor quotes from modern philsophers as good dialog. These conventions rarely ever work, and they rely on the viewer too much to fill in the gaps. This isn't a problem for otakus hyped up on pixi sticks and coke. It is a problem for people who go into a movie with their brain fully engaged, looking for mental stimulation.

Anime needs more heros. Not the muscle-bulging kind, but the kind that can write some fucking good stories for once.

Re:how's it ?

[gipsy boy]

I liked it. The onyl bad things I can think of is that the plot is relatively short and there's some of those obligatory Oshii silences that feel pretentious more than intelligent. But less than I feared for, a lot less.

But there *is* some very intelligent dialogue here, something most reviews run over, I think. You really get the sense of real conversations and feelings-behind-the-eyes, much more than in real-life movies.
This is something that's done much better than GitS, and I'm frustrated to see many reviewers didn't take the effort to see it that way.

You need to have seen the first though to understand crucial parts, even if they omitted the reference from the original title - it was simply called 'Innocence' in Japan.
All in all, I was very impressed by the overall intelligence, it doesn't underestimate its viewers. And I was never bored.

Re:how's it ?

[TheLittleJetson]

...its plot line sounds like some "I, Robot".

yeah it's the classic robot/person ethical debate. very blade runner.

Re:how's it ?

[Anonymous Coward]

IN FIRE!

(Obiligatory random, off-topic, bab-5 answer)

Re:how's it ?

[Pope]

I don't like your simplistic binary division: movies and books can equally be either mindless entertainment or deeply involving, or somewhere inbetween. Trying to posit books as somehow more "think-worthy" is utter crap.

Re:how's it ?

[Antisthenes]

Actually, it's at 48% now.

Re:how's it ?

[Steve Franklin]

I found neither Avalon nor GITS incomprehensible. Neither did I find the first 4 episodes of the TV series incomprehensible. Oshii's other live action films are a bit obscure, but we weren't talking about those. The fact that something is deep enough to stand rewatching doesn't make it incomprehensible on the first watching. Unless of course you just don't want to think at all. That level of mindlessness is not my idea of entertainment, though it might help you get into a Zen monestary.

Re:how's it ?

[Halthar]

Hmmmmm, this has me thinking. I wonder what watching GITS would be like to some of the compilation CDs LTJ Bukem has put out.

Re:how's it ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of the criticisms sound to me like the stuff you hear about Banks' Culture novels, usually it's that people have missed the point that sentient machines are characters too. Someone once called "Excession" crappy to me, upon questioning, turned out she had _skipped over_ the inter-Mind exchanges as "oh, they were just computer stuff" and BASICALLY COMPLETELY MISSED THE ENTIRE CONSPIRACY ASPECT OF THE PLOT.

D'oh! A movie with AI characters, probably nonhumanoid ones, as GITS II is likely to be (though I have not seen it), it not likely to be "got" by the non-computer-literate, just as Banks' books might be interesting reads for the explosions and the sex, but you'll miss half the plot if you don't know some maths and computer science.

Re:how's it ?

[rd_syringe]

As soon as the film went into the whole "the sex-bots have the souls of kidnapped girls in them" thing, I left the theater. Just WAY too geeky and esoteric for me.

Re:how's it ?

[kin_korn_karn]

Quoting you with my karma bonus:

"Boring" and "Not enough likeable characters" is a decent distillation of a common criticism. Many people need their stories to have entertainment value... not just pretty pictures. I havn't seen it, but I have been bored to fucking tears by plenty of anime before. Anime mistakes slow panning shots of scenery, and lengthy close ups of twitchy tear-filled eyes as effective characterization. Non-sequitor quotes from modern philsophers as good dialog. These conventions rarely ever work, and they rely on the viewer too much to fill in the gaps. This isn't a problem for otakus hyped up on pixi sticks and coke. It is a problem for people who go into a movie with their brain fully engaged, looking for mental stimulation.

Anime needs more heros. Not the muscle-bulging kind, but the kind that can write some fucking good stories for once.

Re:how's it ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Darn, and here I was hoping you were going to post another plagiarised review from chud.com.

Oh well, there's always a next time.

Re:how's it ?

[cfuse]

oh no! there's not enough action sequences? and a story you have to pay attention to!? what will american audiences do!?!?

Relax, there's always Star Wars episode III: when Jar Jars attack.

Re:how's it ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been annoyed by that too. I wonder if it feels more connected to someone who's grown up in the Japanese culture.

in theaters?

[Chuck Bucket]

I don't see it listed anywhere in the Austin metro area, am I seaching under the wrong name? Anyone know if the main protagonist is back in this?

CVC

Re:in theaters?

[Anonymous Coward]

Batou is the main character now, the Major has apparently taken off in the new young girl's body that Batou found for her in the end of the first movie.

the movie might be hard to find. The closest showings to me are over an hour away.

Re:in theaters?

[Photon Ghoul]

It's at.... the Doby.....

Re:in theaters?

[sindarin2001]

Depends on what you mean by main protagonist. Ghost in the Shell (the first one) followed Major Motoko Kusanagi around (although Batou was a major part of the story). Stand Alone Complex (the series, being released on dvd over the next couple of months) followed the whole Section 9 team around, with Major and Batou playing very major parts. GITS2 has Batou for it's main character. Hopefully I'll get to see it, but living in the sticks of MT, I doubt I will unless I "acquire" it via the web.

Re:in theaters?

[Anonymous Coward]

The title I have is Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence.
It's correct, because I bought tickets online after I found it in Tempe.

As for your second questions: the fate of the protagonist remains to be seen. Remember, she's no longer (paraphrasing) "the entity known as Project 2501, nor the woman known as The Major".

Bato is in it though, as is a majority of the Section 9 team from the first film.

[I post anonymously because I reserve my karma for the real World.]

Re:in theaters?

[Lane.exe]

Dobie theatres, my good man.

Re:in theaters?

[benliong]

I'm going to watch it in Dobie at 10pm. If you don't know where it is it's right next to UT Campus. Be there early so you can find parking.

Re:in theaters?

[Anonymous Coward]

There's always IMDB's handy map of theaters. Not sure how accurate / current it is, but it looks nice (if depressing, for those of us not in a major urban center).

Innocence in Theaters

[wiredog]

Not since I was about 12...

Re:Innocence in Theaters

[Anonymous Coward]

Not since I went to see that movie with Pee Wee Herman.

Re:Innocence in Theaters

[Pentagram]

I read it as

Ghost in the Shell 2: Incontinence in Theaters

I was thinking, what? Does the soundtract include infrasound?

Re:Innocence in Theaters

[Pentagram]

s/tract/track/

My subconscious must be focussing on digestive tracts. Stupid brain.

Re:Innocence in Theaters

[Steve Franklin]

Funny, one of the cuts on the soundtrack album for the TV series has the line, "I wonder what she does in the morning."

Re:Innocence in Theaters

[Anonymous Coward]

"I wonder what she does when she wakes up"

- Yoko Kanno/Tim Jensen - Lithium Flower
Stand Alone Complex OST

Re:Innocence in Theaters

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, that's a shame. But your parents should've known better than to let some wierd guy off the streets babysit you

How do I say this? Oh yeah, SEXY!

Showtimes near you since yahoo sux0rs

[Astrorunner]

showtimes across the country

Re:Showtimes near you since yahoo sux0rs

[Zak3056]

The link posted by Astrorunner above suggests that the submitter is on crack--"reasonably wide distribution" even for anime does not mean "If you live in a city with a population of less than 750,000 you will have to drive at least five hours to see it."

Re:Showtimes near you since yahoo sux0rs

[Astrorunner]

It wasn't meant to. AFAIK, there's no way to tell Yahoo to show all locations, not just ones that are geographically near you.

Re:Showtimes near you since yahoo sux0rs

[Zak3056]

AFAIK, there's no way to tell Yahoo to show all locations, not just ones that are geographically near you.

Yeah, thanks for posting that link. I spent too much time on Yahoo and Fandango trying to find things reasonably close, and trying larger cities further and further away and still getting nothing. The IMDB map was quite helpful in that it told me I was not going to ever see this movie in a theater.

I still say the story submitter was on crack for suggesting there was "reasonably wide distribution."

Re:Showtimes near you since yahoo sux0rs

[Golias]

Don't exaggerate. Minneapolis is smaller than 750,000. Way smaller. Two theaters showing it there (one downtown, one out in the suburbs.)

Interesting title

[Mr Guy]

Ghost In The Shell 2: Innocence in Theaters

With those nightvision goggles they handed out, there's going to be a lot more "Innocence in Theaters". Poor kids, now where are preteens going to get their first make out session?

Re:Interesting title

[barks]

Well this generation should just download these movies and watch them through the computer/TV and use their parents couch downstairs.

Re:Interesting title

[irc.goatse.cx troll]

The japanese DVDrip is already out. All you'd need to sneak into a US theater is a tape recorder (preferably hooked up to the headphone jack in a wheelchair accessable seat for the hearing impaired), then merge the two sources and you'll have a badly dubbed US version of the film.

Re:Interesting title

[ttrafford]

I thought I read this was being released to theatres subtitled only

Re:Interesting title

[p4ul13]

Perhaps, but now you'd have an audio recording of those subtitles.

Wait a sec...

Re:Interesting title

[Anonymous Coward]

DVD-Rip I picked up off newsgroups yesterday was subtitled, no dub.
Somebody's on the ball :)

Re:Interesting title

[irc.goatse.cx troll]

My mistake then, just grab the DVDrip with english subs.

Well that sucks...

[Blue-Footed Boobie]

I was all excited about getting to see this in a theatre, but no...closest to my is NYC and that is over 500 miles away. Gah! Hopefully it will do well and more theatres will pick it up.

What was so great about Ghost in the Shell 1 ?

[flyingace]

I saw it, but if there was some underlying message, I didnt understand it at all :(

Re:What was so great about Ghost in the Shell 1 ?

[Masami Eiri]

Its hard to explain, but I'll take a shot.
The movie's core theme was about what makes us human. Motoko and Batou were both cyborgs (meaning that the only biological part left was the brain), Togusa was fully human (may have had data jacks though, been a while), most of the rest of Section 9 were cyborgs (though not to the degree of Motoko and Batou), and the Puppetmaster was a computer program. All were fully sentient, so the question remains, what makes one human?
Togusa was the only fully alive in a biological sense... but Motoko sure looked human enough. So, if instead, human is defined as having a human form, then we have Motoko and Batou. However, this then would include androids (dolls in GitS2)... and was the Puppetmaster not sentient? If he (she, it?) was sentient... should it be counted as alive despite lacking a biological body?
Basically, where does Human end, and Human-replica begin?

I hope that didn't just end up being more confusing...

Re:What was so great about Ghost in the Shell 1 ?

[kannibal_klown]

For my literature requirement in college, I took Science Fiction. It was my favorite class through my 4 years of college and 1.5 years of grad school. The theme for the whole semester was "What makes us human? What is alive?" We read a lot of stories, as well as watched movies: Blade Runner, Ghost in the Shell, Frankenstein. We also saw some key episodes of The X-Files. Everything we saw or read focused on this theme. I remember sitting there watching Ghost in the Shell all the way through, and discussing it for the rest of the class (Saturday class = 3 hours). Man, I miss that class. It was one of those true college classes I had hoped on taking; the kind that made you think and do cool things.

Re:What was so great about Ghost in the Shell 1 ?

[Masami Eiri]

I wish they'd offer that at Drexel.. that'd rule.

Re:What was so great about Ghost in the Shell 1 ?

[wantedman]

You might enjoy the manga more. The comic form has a more developed plot, actual humor and it's not as pr0n-0-rific.

Re:What was so great about Ghost in the Shell 1 ?

[meringuoid]

Basically, where does Human end, and Human-replica begin?

Sounds like this would make a good double-bill with Blade Runner - the extended version, of course...

Re:What was so great about Ghost in the Shell 1 ?

[WoodenRobot]

I got all of the GITS2 comics, and I felt really quite let down. The artwork was amazing, but what the hell was the story? Seems like Mr. Shirow was just going off by himself and leaving us out in the cold without any explanation of the plot. And he certainly seems to be getting more into his hentai these days - GITS2 was pretty racy in places, getting close to the level of prOn found in his poster collections.

Anyone else feel a bit let down by the whole Man Machine Interface thing?

Re:What was so great about Ghost in the Shell 1 ?

[Damek]

what makes one human?

Oh, that's easy. What makes one human is the desire to improve oneself and become more than what one is. It's all about striving to grow as an individual. Why are people still hung up on this issue, it's so easy...

Re:What was so great about Ghost in the Shell 1 ?

[sn0wman3030]

Another main theme was the propagation of diversity and the benefits inherit in having a diverse society. At the end when Motoko merges with the puppet master, the idea was to disrupt the puppet master's linear method of evolving, and causing him/it to change like a human, creating a method for causing diversity in machines. This was supposed to create ambiguity as to whether the major or the puppetmaster where human or machine.

Re:What was so great about Ghost in the Shell 1 ?

[Anonymous Coward]

You got one variable in an equation that contains millions if not billions of variables.

Re:What was so great about Ghost in the Shell 1 ?

[billtom]

My dog seems to like to learn new tricks. Is my dog human?

Re:What was so great about Ghost in the Shell 1 ?

[Altus]

no it means your dog likes treats!

but you have a point... the grandparent post oversimplifies the problem.

Re:What was so great about Ghost in the Shell 1 ?

[Kehvarl]

I thought it was the ability to be intentionally and knowingly cruel to members of any species, and to take pleasure from that cruelty while claiming to despise it.
In other words, lacking and reflecting lack of pity or compassion.

By which I mean, the defining train of humanity is the capacity and (possibly) desire to be inhumane.

No this is not an original thought, merely one I stole :]

Re:What was so great about Ghost in the Shell 1 ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Man Machine Interface was definitely more p0rnish, don't think GITS2 or GITS1 can touch it.

Re:What was so great about Ghost in the Shell 1 ?

[Damek]

It's a problem?

And no, I'm not oversimplifying the problem. I'm just answering the question the grandparent really wishes it were asking.

See, people say "what does it mean to be human" when they really mean "what makes sentient consciousness important (or unique, etc.)". Obviously, "human" has a specific biological meaning. Or, rather, homo sapiens does. But if Neanderthals were as sentient as homo sapiens, yet a different species, isn't that what we're really talking about? In that sense, would Neanderthals have been "human" in the way that the grandparent post means it?

So the real question is, what makes us special, apart from other life forms, and that is our self-aware nature and desire to improve ourselves, to transcend that nature. Any intelligence that exhibits those characteristics can be my friend any day, and should get legal protections and all that jazz. That's what the real issue is.

Re:What was so great about Ghost in the Shell 1 ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Get the subtitled release and watch it a few more times. There is a lot going on in this film, but it all fits together nicely if you pay attention.

How about quoting the title.

[yecrom2]

Looking at the way it's worded, I thought it was something about a new game called

"Ghost in the shell 2: Innocence in Theaters"

Do you have to go do a confession in a theater to become innocent again?

Oh, well.

Re:How about quoting the title.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Forgive me Father, for I have sinned ..." just got a whole new spin.

Re:How about quoting the title.

[zoeblade]

Do you have to go do a confession in a theater to become innocent again?

Forgive me MPAA, for I have watched a bootleg...

Looks good

[frankthechicken]

I only had one problem with Ghost in the Shell (and Ninja Scrolls) in that they were the first two pieces of anime I was introduced to, and everything else seems to pale in comparison (with a couple of notable exceptions).

However from watching the trailer, I have a feeling that I am really going to enjoy this sequel. It looks like a great deal of time and effort has gone into the style and visuals.

Re:Looks good

[stratjakt]

It looks like a great deal of time and effort has gone into the style and visuals.

I find this to be the anime formula. Lots of great effects and visuals to prop up a weak and cheesy sci-fi plot.

Basically just like an animated Star Wars prequel.

Re:Looks good

[deathcloset]

Wow, those were actually my first two pieces of anime as well.
I even put Akira as a third in place to Ghost in the Shell and Ninja Scroll.
The mix of Raw Vioence, Phenomenal artistry and deep narrative from Ghost in the Shell had my head spinning for a couple of days.
and anytime I think I'm having a tough day at work I just remember Tessai (the stone-body demon) beating the living crap out of Jubei. That makes me remember that things could be a lot worse...if I were a cartoon.

Re:Looks good

[B5_geek]

That is how I was introduced as well.

I have been trying to expand my anime movies, but it still seems that those two will always be in my top ten.

Re:Looks good

[meringuoid]

Am I the only person in the world who thought that Ninja Scroll sucked?

It never seemed to know what it wanted to be. At times it seemed to want to break out the tentacles o' doom and go full scale hentai, and then later on (with the fight in the forest) it tries the Crouching Tiger approach. If it was one or the other maybe it would have worked, but as it was it seemed terribly uneven. And that ending bit on the ship... T2, anybody?

I gather that the BBFC made some nasty cuts to it, though... perhaps that damaged it.

Ghost in the Shell, OTOH, is wonderful. When I first saw it, I was filled with wonder at the originality and creativity of the Wachowski brothers, who hadn't shamelessly ripped off the whole film at all.

Re:Looks good

[BlackHawk-666]

I'm pretty sure I saw Akira first, then GITS and Ninja Scroll, but it's a long time ago now, so it's hard to be sure. It's possible it was Alita, Battle Angel first (or Nausicaa), then the others. In any case, those three will always have a special spot in my DVD collection.

Re:Looks good

[Anonymous Coward]

pick up the anime series "last exile" its pretty good and the art work is rendered beautifully.

Re:Looks good

[Mysticalfruit]

You might like the anime series "Cowboy Bebop".

Great action/characters/plots.

Re:Looks good

[Golias]

Am I the only person in the world who thought that Ninja Scroll sucked?

No. You are not.

I'm an anime junkie, but Ninja Scroll has very little going for it. I guess for 12-year old kids it would make a pretty thrilling double-feature with the original "Heavy Metal."

Re:Looks good

[Anonymous Coward]

The difference between regular H and Ninja Scrolls was that there was kind of a realism to the sexual psychology in Ninja Scrolls. The world was sinful, so there was rape, and rape had consequences.

After the ninja girl was first molested and she returned to report to her master - he was fucking a concubine. This really disturbed her; she was grimacing in pain.

There is some kind of psychological realism to that. I think you were supposed to feel bad for her at that point and have a negative reaction to all of the rape in the movie.

That's what I took out of it at least.

Re:Looks good

[digitalghost1]

Akira (1988) was my introduction to anime. The Robotech (1986) series was second. Ghost in the Shell (1995)was the last. Kudos goes to William Gibson for inspiring the story in Ghost in the Shell.

seen it last nite

[Anonymous Coward]

the animation is AMAZING, if you liked the first ghost in the shell movie or the tv series then this is a must see, although it is a must see for the animation alone.

loved it, recommend it

display settings - anime?

[Anonymous Coward]

Customize Slashdot's Display : Exclude Stories from the Homepage : Anime

Is this not functional right now?

(Posted anonymously)

Having said that

[frankthechicken]

Though this doesn't sound too promising

Re:Having said that

[pianoman113]

Nothing sounds good when you say it with that attitude.

Re:Having said that

[bludstone]

have you noticed that most of their problem is the technobabble?

I LOVE TECHNOBABBLE :O

Hehe...

[FrostedWheat]

From Yahoo's website:

Mozilla 1.7 Upgrade Required - MSIE / Netscape

What ever happened the concept of downloading a video, and watching it.

Re:Hehe...

[kwench]

Well... after trying Opera and Mozilla, after reinstalling RealPlayer... I gave up.

Hell, I was even trying to find the movie's URL with Ethereal.

Re:Hehe...

[Anonymous Coward]

http://streamingmovies.ign.com/filmforce/article/5 33/533495/gits2_trlr_wm_500.wmv

Re:Hehe...

[Anonymous Coward]

How'd you find it dude? What's the secret?

Beware the Otaku!

[YetAnotherName]

Those of you who aren't otaku may want to bring noseplugs to the theater, as such folk, nice though they may be, aren't known for their personal hygiene.

Oh and before you think I'm baiting/trolling/etc., I am an otaku too ... fear me cosplay Sailor Moon, as I've just had my chest waxed! ^_^

Re:Beware the Otaku!

[Chess_the_cat]

Calling them Otaku gives them an undeserved cachet. I prefer to call them Anime nerds.

Re:Beware the Otaku!

[Anonymous Coward]

A common stereotype is the young male otaku who lives at home without a job, has few social contacts outside of his otaku friends, and, who may be on the verge of becoming a dangerous stalker. This was further reinforced by the case of Tsutomu Miyazaki, a serial killer who raped four small children and ate parts of their bodies. He was revealed to be an otaku after his arrest in 1989.

beware the otaku indeed.. what theatre will you be at? I'll be sure to steer clear! Lets hope they dont run out of popcorn, or you might wander into some rated G movies for a snack.

Re:Beware the Otaku!

[ceeam]

Baka. :)

Re:Subtitled?

[pegboy]

It is subtitled.... One of the big complaints i've read is that people are finding the subtitles distracting from the amazing visuals...

Soundtrack

[Gyorg_Lavode]

Also, the soundtrack to Ghost in the Shell: Innocence is wonderful. I have the Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex O.S.T. 1 CD and it was so good I decided to see about the other ones. Innocence is also excellent. The original is quieter, slower. SAC OST 2 is good also but SAC OST 1 and Innocence really stand out. I recommend them to anyone who liked the atmosphere created by the music of the original movie.

Re:Soundtrack

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Stand Alone Complex was composed by Yoko Kanno, not Kenji Kawai. Both are wonderful composers though.

Blarg

[transient]

There is also a trailer available.

Not anymore.

Re:Blarg

[Causticus]

Hm. I just watched it.

warning: spoilers below

[GillBates0]

bash$ ps -aux |grep gsview

USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND
root 1009 0.0 0.0 1384 448 ? S Sep14 0:10 gsview

bash$ kill -9 1009

Re:warning: spoilers below

[pjt33]

Well, there may have been a ghost in the shell, but you're far from innocent. Killing that poor process like that. What had it ever done to you? You should be ashamed of yourself.

GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[Anonymous Coward]

I downloaded the latest Ghost In The Shell movie from a little-known BitTorrent site yesterday, and after watching it, I was blown away--far better than the original. In fact, I was so blown away that I'll be paying for the theater experience to see it again and pray that there aren't any cellphone fuckers, crying babies, loud talkers, or sticky floors to piss me off.

And to all of you anal-retentive copyright-lovers who are thinking "you don't have the right to 'sample' a movie before deciding if it's worth the money! especially if its precious anime!", I have this to say: "when 90% of everything is crap, i most certainly have the right to screen it, and neither should I have to rent it or see it aired on TV before I decide the artistic value merits my dollars as a reward to make more."

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[Anonymous Coward]

Glad to hear it was good. The DVD rip has been posted on Usenet in alt.binaries.multimedia.anime over the last 2 days as well (make sure you get the DVD rip and NOT the CAM version).

I alternate between Usenet and Bittorrent nowadays, Kazaa Lite and their kind are sinking ships full of garbage.

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[Anonymous Coward]

""""neither should I have to rent it or see it aired on TV before I decide the artistic value merits my dollars as a reward to make more.""""

gimme gimme gimme. fucking kids today thing they're entitled to everything.

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[yamcha666]

...copyright-lovers who are thinking "you don't have the right to 'sample' a movie before deciding if it's worth the money! especially if its precious anime!", I have this to say...

...Especially if its not being played in any theaters near you. Looking at IMDB's show times, the nearest theater from me is 180 miles away.

I think this movie deserves better theater release. But until movie makers give proper movies better coverage, I think I will find other means of getting my entertainment.

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[yamcha666]

To add another point, this could possibly be Spirited Away vs. Disney all over again.

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[Anonymous Coward]

Ghost.In.The.Shell.2.Innocence.DVDRIP.XViD.AC3.200 4-haWks
http://thehawks.org/hawks/bt/Ghost.In.The.Shell.2. Innocence.DVDRIP.XViD.AC3.2004-haWks.torrent
subtitled.DVDRIP

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[Anonymous Coward]

NEVER fucking link to suprnova, especially from slashdot, you goddamn ignoramus. That site is already precarious enough. I don't think it needs a slashdotting and the attention that a /. link brings.

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[Dusabre]

Hey, if you feel so strongly that you have the right, why are you posting as AC? Coward.

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[lidocaineus]

No, you do not have the right to screen it. You have the right to be informed enough to make a decision through reviews, trailers, word of mouth, hearsay, or that crazy voice in your head. There's a certain latin phrase that goes along the lines of "Caveat Emptor". I suggest looking it up.

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[Microlith]

Oh no, it's your god given right to enjoy the efforts of others labors for free and without compensation because you are special and deserving of all.

If 90% is crap, don't watch it all. Let others watch it and follow the reviews. I've learned this with pretty much ALL hollywood movies, and as a result I see very few.

You don't deserve anything free except that which has been deemed free, either by the will of the creator or that which has lapsed into the public domain. And if you disagree with that, then get the law changed but until then, shove it.

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[Jeff DeMaagd]

i most certainly have the right to screen it,

The problem I have of this is that there was never such a legal right, even before P2P, DRM and all that crap. You may argue that you should have that right, but right now, you really don't have a right to screen movies for free using copyright infringing methods.

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree up to a point, but I would direct my bile to the kids who refuse to reward even the artists they do like. If everyone was honest, it would actually be quite interesting if "screen it and pay if you like it" was the standard distribution model -- this might take a lot of noise away from the feedback the producers get (in the form of money).

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't it have been easier to demand the theater to let you in to a half-empty matinee showing to "sample" the movie? After all, the air you breathe doesn't cost them money, the seats are empty, and they're gonna show the movie regardless. Just tell them you'll pay them afterwards if you think it's worth it.

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[flatface]

Ok, I just want to point out that Hawk's translation is WRONG in many parts. I saw the official translation that the Toronto Film Festival, and it differed greatly in most parts. I can safely say that at least 50% of Hawk's translation is complete BS. I've heard that 2 other groups are subbing the dvdrip, so by all means, WAIT UNTIL SOMEONE ELSE DOES IT. Or even better, watch it in theatres. It's worth it.

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[torokun]

"i most certainly have the right to screen it . . ."

Actually, you don't. I understand your badly wanting to, but you don't have any right to.

It's a bargain between you and the producers, not optional charity from you to the producers.

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[Skjellifetti]

90% of US beer tastes like crap. Do you believe you have the right to steel a beer in order to try it before deciding whether to buy a six-pack?

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[Anonymous Coward]

If 90% is crap, don't watch it all. Let others watch it and follow the reviews. I've learned this with pretty much ALL hollywood movies, and as a result I see very few.

Either way, the studios do not make money. I don't trust reviewers, either. The majority of stuff I really like most people probably do not.

then get the law changed

This is assuming that the representative democracy of the US is working. I see no proof of that.

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[Anonymous Coward]

If he followed the reviews for this movie, he wouldn't see it. The studios make more money this way on him.

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why there are tents setup at fairs and what not for tasting beer. Not that that matters, however. If stealing a beer to test it out was less of a risk, everyone would do it. Many people *do* steal physical items, some people you would never suspect.

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[bastard42]

steel a beer

Only if it's Iron City beer. It's crapalicious :)

To stay on topic, I'm off to see GITS2 at the one screen in my state. Yep, totally wide release... but better than nothing. After the movie, perhaps I will consume some copyright infringed Iron City, by wearing a Guinness shirt while drinking it. Won't be the first time.


PS Some places will let you buy singles, but that's illegal in some places.
PPS You could always ask for a sample at the brewery. YMMV.

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[Anonymous Coward]

180 miles? That's only a three hour drive. I'd go in a heartbeat. I live 2500 miles from the nearest showing.

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[crabpeople]

"Do you believe you have the right to steal a beer in order to try it before deciding whether to buy a six-pack?"

no but i like free samples at the liquor store :)

actually your analogy is flawed- maybe if you said: 90% of US beer taste like crap, do you believe you have the right to make an exact copy of that beer and share it with your friend so you both have a beer? thus turning this almost certainly bad beer into a good experience? why would you think that the experience of drinking a beer would not want to make you drink more beers, or recomend the beer to friends? on the other side, if it was crap would you want the beer industry to play you like a sucka? this is about being an empowered consumer.
im so tired of people thinking that companies should make money above all else. WHy? what happened to people wanting to make things in order to improve society?? movies are like porn, if the major studios stop producing, theres always some chick with a webcam.

whats the mozilla marketing slogan again? "you are our marketing department" yeah that applies to EVERYTHING

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[bludstone]

No, but if i could make copies of beer without tarnishing the original, or removing the original from the owners hands, you better believe that everyone I know would be getting drunk off their asses.

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[bioglaze]

I watched Hawks version a moment ago (yes, illegal copy, but i will buy the dvd) and noticed that they didn't even fully translate several important dialogues (between Aramaki and Togusa) or kanjis (Kim's room).

The movie was just awesome, I even wrote down the quotes and will ponder them later on ^__^

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[Anonymous Coward]

If by "steal" you mean, "go to the store, use my Star Trek food replicator to make a duplicate of a bottle of beer they sell, open the duplicate bottle, drink it, and then buy the original bottle if I liked the taste," then the answer is "yes, I do have the (moral) right to do that."

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[digitalghost1]

How the hell do they get a DVD rip of it already? Is that the Japanese version? The qaulity must be totally crap. It's a sin to download and view it for the first time from an inferior source.

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[flatface]

Uh, the quality is the same as any North American DVD. Is there some standard that says that Japanese DVDs must be of lower quality? No? Ok, then. I have it, I've watched it, and the quality is excellent.

Re:GITS2:Innocence available on p2p

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, I'll just copy a friend's beer.

Re:Subtitled?

[Anonymous Coward]

As long as the translation is top notch it won't bother me. If I miss something cool while reading I'll just see it a second time...

GITS2

[fistoflegend]

I think this might be a pretty worthwhile film. I liked the first one, but I didn't think it was as great as fanboys make it out to be. I think this one will be a little different.

I don't think this will be "I, Robot" animated. The fact that the robot in GITS2 is a "gynoid", seems to point to a slightly darker, and more mature plot.

Of note is the fact that GITS2 is nominated for the Palme D'Or at the Cannes film festival. It is the first animated film to achieve that.

I also think that this movie will be more in tune with westerners vision of what a sci-fi film should be. Apparently it is quite an intelligent film, but the ideas may be more palatable to mainstream America than many other popular anime films.

I probably won't be able to see it in theaters, but I will definitely pick up the DVD.

There is a very nice write up on the film on Wired
http://wired.com/news/digiwood/0,1412,64966,00.htm l

,

Re:GITS2

[Anonymous Coward]

The fact that the robot in GITS2 is a "gynoid"...

Sorry, not up on otaku-lingo... Is this something to do with mechanized gynecology?

Re:GITS2

[gipsy boy]

It's definitely not a Western movie! It's a lot more Eastern than GitS ever was.

A lot of the so called boring dialogue and quotes from philosophers are about the question of what happens after you die. One of the characters in the movie fears you end up in a world where everything is dark, where you're just amputed from your senses and can only experience silent darkness. This merely lines up with the robot/ghost idea, but all in all GitS2 is a lot less about robots than GitS!

I think a lot of reviewers are just prejudiced by other reviews before them and don't open their eyes sufficiently. I'm not a GitS fan at all and I thought this was a moving and deep movie, and much better than GitS. It has one or two weaker moments that keep it from perfection.

Re:GITS2

[fistoflegend]

Well, I'm not up on otaku either. I just read the Wired story and a couple of others and that is where I got the term "gynoid".

I don't think it is an anime term, but its a robot whose sole purpose is for intimacy.

Re:GITS2

[fistoflegend]

I guess you're right, but the characters in the first movie were very detached from the viewer.

From what I've heard, this one has more character development.

I wish it was coming to my town.

Major gone??

[celerityfm]

"With the major gone, can Bateau stop the carnage?"

NoOOOOooOoooOoOOoo!?!

Re:Major gone??

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you see the first movie? Well, this one is set some years (one?) later... therefore `Major` is missing, juvyr Xhfnantv...

Re:Major gone??

[cryptochrome]

With the major gone, can Bateau stop the carnage?

Sure he can, with Togusa doing all the legwork. While everyone else in Section 9 is off kicking ass and tailing people, he's solving the case.

Re:Subtitled?

[fistoflegend]

If you have heard the quality of the dub for the first film, you should be elated that they did not dub this one for american release.

why do i see this story?!

[szo]

I'm excluding anime in my preferences, still I get this crap. Why?!

Re:why do i see this story?!

[Phunky Monkey]

Because it's good for you. Like brussel sprouts and spinnach. Now eat up, and experiance something different for a change. The world is a little bigger than your parents' basement.

Re:why do i see this story?!

[Anonymous Coward]

You need a better filter. Try using your brain.

Seriously, what does it matter if one extraneous headline appears on Slashdot for you? If it doesn't interest you, don't read it. It's very simple. Your response indicates that you rely too much on technology to solve your problems. Turn off your computer and go outside.

Where in Toronto is it playing?

[mindaktiviti]

Where in Toronto is it playing? I've checked tribute.ca and after midnight last night all traces of it just dissappeared. I would have went to the theatre to see this movie, no seriously, I would have. Unfortunately it's not playing in my area so I'm downloading the DVD rip from suprnova. Only 6 more hours to go so when I'm done work it'll be ready. Seeing it in the theatre would be very nice but I guess that's not going to happen. :/ On another note, how is that other Ghost in the Shell movie, Stand Alone Complex?

Re:Where in Toronto is it playing?

[Anonymous Coward]

The only place I've been able to find it playing in Canada is the Toronto Film Festival. It looks like they had two showings and you missed both of them. I guess if I want to see it around Vancouver I'll have to take a quick trip down to Seattle on the weekend.

Re:Where in Toronto is it playing?

[Templaris]

Stand Alone Complex is not a movie. GITS:SAC is a TV show in the middle of its second season. Each season has its own plot arch, starting off with a seemingly small incident that turns into a giant conspiracy (sort of). The idea of the Stand Alone complex is anonymous random people all motivated toward a certain cause, but those people seem to have little relation to one another. The animation is top notch. The TV show easier to get into than the movies, because theres a greater amount of character development. Also, while theres still lots of philosophy references, its never overbearing.

There's torrents at Suprnova.org and Laughing man Fansubs has the newest season.

http://gits.no-jutsu.com/gits/

Re:Where in Toronto is it playing?

[mindaktiviti]

Thanks for the info! I'll be sure to start up those torrents, or maybe even just check it out on DVD because I have seen it at the video store.

I need more coffee

[Anonymous Coward]

I first read that as "Goatse In the Shell" in theatres.

You can be sure I didn't visit THAT trailer!

Ghost in the shell?

[thomasj]

[user@localhost user]$ echo $BASH_VERSION
3.01-gs.0-beta
[user@localhost user]$ type ghostview
ghostview is a shell builtin
[user@localhost user]$

Hmm

Re:Ghost in the shell?

[Anonymous Coward]

[user@localhost user]$ ls -s /bin/bash
91820 /bin/bash
[user@localhost user]$


o_O

Avalon

[lobiusmoop]

Looks like Mamoru has adopted the same beautiful sepia style for the film as Avalon

Toronto Film Festival

[flatface]

I was able to see this amazing movie at the Toronto Film Festival on the 9th. The Ryerson theatre was packed-- About 1100 (out of 1200 capacity) people attended it. This is the best movie that I have seen in years, and I recommend anyone who is or isn't an anime fan to see it. It was worth my $18 + 2 hour drive to see it.

Worth a view

[Platinum Dragon]

I had a chance to see GitS2:I at the Toronto International Film Festival last week. I'll need to see it again before I can properly critcize or praise it (I was a bit stoked about just having the chance to see it), but my first impressions are that it is visually stunning.

I don't know how the storyline or certain philosophical aspects of the script will be taken by North American audiences (it's practically Confucian at times), but there were some moments of genuine humour that I think the first movie lacked. The animation style is interesting, and it looks damn good. One person who saw the movie with me said she was hooked by the animation in the trailer, which stunned her. She works at an animation company, so she has some idea of quality animation versus crap.

Yeah. Worth a view, maybe two!

useful links anybody?

[Anonymous Coward]

since TFS didn't mention any:

GITS2 Home page
Original HQ Japanese Trailer
Official Trailer for Gaijin, already stripped of the engrish "my very warm welcome to you for this most excellent trailer. I like to live life to the fullest!" headers.

Ghosts in shells...

[Jugalator]

That's something for a geek to put the blame on.

"No, I didn't wreck your system by issuing that command, it was a ghost in the shell! I'm innocent!"

Re:Ghosts in shells...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've installed a few ghosts in shells back in my day.

[OT] Preferences broken?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have Anime stories excluded from the fron page according to my preferences, but I'm stlil seeing this story.

Anyone else's preferences stopped working?

OT: Making fun of Neve Campbell

[Platinum Dragon]

Hey, you were there too? Were you near the point where the line was split for the "fire zone"?

If so... remember what the one guy near the front of the back half yelled to Neve Campbell when she was waiting to enter her limo?:-)

I wasn't the guy, but I was standing close to him, a bit in front.

Re:OT: Making fun of Neve Campbell

[flatface]

No, I didn't hear anything about that. I was in the shade about 8m from where the line made its first bend inside of the block. Inside of the theatre, I was around the middle of the 7th row from the front (with a friend). My neck hurt a bit, but DAMN was it worth it.

Re:OT: Making fun of Neve Campbell

[ashitaka]

remember what the one guy near the front of the back half yelled to Neve Campbell

Curiosity killed the cat.....

ok, so what did he yell?

Re:OT: Making fun of Neve Campbell

[Platinum Dragon]

"HEY NEVE, I LOVED YOU IN CATWALK!"

If you've never seen the show, you probably won't get it. If you do... you can imagine what the look on her face was probably like. I couldn't see that far, so I didn't get a look at her reaction, but it couldn't have been good.

Be Patient

[The Angry Mick]

A lot of niche market movies such as this are released on a "market tier" basis. Large urban markets like New York and Los Angeles will get the film in it's first week, then, if business is good, it begins trickling down to smaller markets. Sometimes, you'll even see a tier system at work in a major city. A good case in point is the recent film "Garden State" (both thumbs way up, BTW), which originally opened here in Atlanta on only two screens, both of which were in premium theatres inside the city limits. By week two, the movie was on 20 odd screens scattered all over the surrounding suburbs.

Re:Where in Canada is it playing?

[cybergrue]

Better Question, where in Canada is this playing?
Not in Montreal, Ottawa or Toronto as far as I can tell. There was a (single?) showing at the Toronto Film Festival but I couldn't make it.

Can anyone who knows please reply if and where this movie is suppost to be shown in Canada? I was looking forward to seeing it in a theatre. While I am asking, does anyone the the distribution of Steam Boy? I have a fealing it will be even more of 'limited release' then GitS:I is.

Re:Subtitled?

[Quobobo]

People who complain about subtitles are nuts. Reading short lines of dialogue is not the hardest thing in the world, nor should it be distracting if the language of the subtitles is your mother tongue. Literacy helps, of course...

Spoiler

[fux]

First 8 minutes:

http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2642793?htv=12& ht v=12

Review: Ghost in the Shell 2

[feelafel]

I had the pleasure of seeing Ghost in the Shell 2 : Innocence at a midnight screening at the Toronto International Film Festival along with about 1200 other people who all fit nicely into the "anime geek" demographic. The director wasn't there for a Q&A, which was sad, because after seeing the film I definitely had some Qs for which the As would have been interesting.

The movie takes place some intederminate amount of time after Ghost in the Shell, and the Major's partner, Batou, has become something of a loner within Section 9. He feels that no new partner could ever equal the Major, and you really get the sense of the deep bond that had connected the two, and that he has lost. Of course, the fact that the Major's "ghost" simply disappeared without a trace is always itching at him, as well.

The movie opens with Batou showing up at a crime scene where a "Gynoid" has slaughtered her owner and two cops. A fight ensues, and before it ends, Batou hears the "Gynoid" ask for help in the voice of a little girl.

Section 9 decides to investigate, and Batou is assigned a new partner. The movie follows their investigation in pretty standard 3-act style, but the universe that the characters are moving through makes things a little more complicated. Everyone has an "e-brain" which is constantly connected to the global information net. Our characters spout obscure biblical and literal references, and more disturbingly, can have their heads hacked into if they're not paying attention closely. This frequently spurrs "Matrix"-like discussions and situations where characters are trying to determine what is real and what isn't. Batou's investigations take him to the modern Yakuza, an old border town, and eventually to the source of the plea for help he hears at the start of the movie.

But that's the plot, which adds to the enjoyment of anime, but isn't neccessarily all that requisite, right? Let's talk about the other stuff that matters: the animation, and the imaginary future society.

It rocks. There's an effective combination of computer animation and classic anime that causes some breathtaking moments (watch the alley scene at the beginning). The fights are fantastic, although I felt a little too few and far between. The futuristic world is well thought out, with a visual design being of a modern technological world that has gone 1920s-retro when it comes to industrial design and architecture.

It's definitely worth seeing if you like anime.

Re:Review: Ghost in the Shell 2

[baronben]

I was at that screening too (sweet lord, the line warped around an entire city block!), and I really have to agree with this review. The animation was amazing, possibly a bit to good for something that amounts to a hour and a half discussion on the philosophy of the soul. While I didn't have a clue what was going on when I was watching it, now that I think about it, I think it get what it was talking about. Its definitely something I'll have to see several more times.

One this I did love, and this isn't a spoiler so don't worry, was this little throw away line about infusing the 'ghosts,' or souls of these hordes of seagulls with a certain kind of joy. I just thought that was absolutely fabulous. Don't know why.

So, to summarize, if you don't have ADD or its hyperactive cousin ADHD, like the first one, or just like Basset Hounds, check this movie out. If not, well there's always I, Robot.

Re:how's it ? - Some movie critic reviews

[SoCoKapSig]

I thought I would spew out a few links to reviews of the movie if you want to see what movie critics have to say...

Hollywood Reporter
NY Times (requires registration)
ReelTalk Reviews
ComingSoon.net
E! Online (with trailer)

GITS2 London

[never_been]

Who knows when it is coming to the UK?

Re:GITS2 London

[Anonymous Coward]

Hm, not sure but GITS3 and GITS3 - Vice City should be out by christmas

Is this coming out in Canada in the Theatres?

[xotx69]

So far, the odds of this happening are bleek. Has anybody heard otherwise?

I really want to see this on the big screen and not from a DivX DVD Rip.

Btw, I already know it played at the Toronto Film Festival. But that's an exception. Anyone?

Re:Is this coming out in Canada in the Theatres?

[trentham]

You're right...that was the exception. Go Fish Pictures is not distributing it in Canada. Ah, wish I could post a reference for this...Google for Go Fish Pictures and GITS and you'll stumble on it.

Re:Is this coming out in Canada in the Theatres?

[Pope]

No idea, it doesn't look like a distributor has picked it up. There might have been a conflict with the TIFF showing, but that didn't stop "When Will I Be Loved" from opening this week.

Pee-Wee Herman

[buzban]

At the risk of trolling :P

Am I the only one who read the 'Innocence in Theaters' part of the headline...and had a whole different idea about this story?

Upgrade Required?!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Argh.

I hate websites that tell me to 'upgrade' my web browser.

Apparently I need to 'upgrade' from the latest Firefox version to IE. Yeah right.

Re:Subtitled?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think some people who complain about the subtitles just aren't fast enough readers.
Hence they complain about the subtitles because they spend all their time reading them and not being able to watch the movie.

Poor kids

[Anonymous Coward]

>>where are preteens going to get their first make out session?

Anyone who's first makeout session comes before their first rent payment gets no sympathy from me.

Re:Poor kids

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone who's first makeout session comes before their first rent payment gets no sympathy from me.

How do I say this? Oh yeah, ASININE!

Bought my tickets online 5AM MST

[Anonymous Coward]

You can get yours at moviephone.com as well.

Re:Subtitled?

[BlackHawk-666]

There's a solution to that problem, but most people aren't going to like it. I've begun studying Japanese (nihongo) and one of the reasons is to be able to enjoy all their excellent cinema without the subtitles. The other is so I can live there :-)

I don't really mind subtitling, since I've been reading it for maybe 20 years now, it's hard to even notice. You just need to learn to read it nice and quick. Flick your eyes down to the subtitles and let the image burn into your mind, but don't try and "read" it. Now, read the image in your mind instead, you should have the gist of what was said, and you should get this within a flash i.e. you should be able to get a two liner subtitle in less than half a second. It's speed reading, but speed reading just a short line or two at a time.

I live in Georgia

[Lord Bitman]

"Ghost in the Shell: Innocence" is in Theater, thank you very much.

Better trailer?

[delus10n0]

Ok:

1) I hate Yahoo for putting very low kbps WMV trailers on the net.

2) The trailer itself is very cheesy/lame-- how is this supposed to appeal to anyone but die hard Ghost in the Shell fans?

3) Did I mention Yahoo's movie trailers suck?

Re:Better trailer?

[Anonymous Coward]

In Usenet (I think it was alt.binaries.multimedia.anime), one or 2 days ago there was a posting that claimed to be a dvdrip (maybe if sb around here has dl'ed and watched it they could say if it is a real dvdrip or cam work)

The image quality is probably better but it may have "too many spoilers" :P

Re:Better trailer?

[Alizarin Erythrosin]

You didn't mention that their showtime lookup sucks too. Yeah, I know it's not playing in my area. At least tell me where it's playing in my state and let me decide if I want to drive to Miami (no) or Jacksonville (still no) to see it. At least I found on another site that it will be playing in Sarasota (about an hour's drive probably) in mid-October. I guess I'll go see it then!

Official Theater Listings

[pi8you]

Interesting map there with the imdb. I've been referring people to looking at the official US site for [official dates and locations, as there's a number of places it will be airing beginning after the 17th. For the Europeans on here, so far as I know, it's only been picked up by France thus far, United International Pictures has it and will be releasing on/about Dec 1st 2004. That all being said, I've got my ticket for the 2:30pm show, four and a half hours from now, it's gonna be fantastic.

More Video Available

[Anonymous Coward]

These wankers have the first 8 minutes of the movie available to watch (just don't choose the 500k -- it's subscription).

Also, make sure you use Mozilla so you can avoid all the popup ads.

What is it with these Frankenstein plots?

[TheNarrator]

From looking at the trailer this looks like another Frankenstein plot. Mad scientist creates artificial human, artificial human has problems. Same plot in Blade Runner, etc. Can't anyone think of any new Sci-fi plots already?

Frankenstein returns 1163 matches on IMDB so I think this qualifies as a cliche. Take a look at the plot summary of the original if you don't believe this is in the same tradition.

Tagline: A Monster Science Created - But Could Not Destroy! Plot Outline: Frankenstein creates a true android from dead human parts, but it gets out of his control and gets into trouble

Re:What is it with these Frankenstein plots?

[Anonymous Coward]

i saw it at the Toronto film fest....it's far from a frankenstien plot, it's more film noir than horror. Seedy characters, prostitute gynoid ring, and the darker elements of human activity. Add the philisophical musings of what constitutes humanity, it's more Blade Runner than Frankenstein. ...so you're right, they could use some new sci-fi plots...HA!

red5un

Re:What is it with these Frankenstein plots?

[gipsy boy]

Maybe you should watch the movie first eh?, it's not a Frankenstein plot at all.
In fact people here keep comparing it to "I, Robot" without having seen it for some reason, while it has nothing in common with that 'flawed creator' type of story at all.
It saddens that there's so much prejudiced ignorance about this movie.

Re:What is it with these Frankenstein plots?

[identity0]

Haven't seen the movie yet, but apparently neither have you, so...

The original Ghost in the Shell, at least, was not a 'Frankenstein story', and I doubt this one is given the history of the writer and director. Basically in the GiTS universe, cyborgs are so common that no one really takes notice of them. The plot is about an AI who wants to merge with a human, and the hunt to stop him. It's not about any evil scientists and machines gone out of control than 2001: A Space Odyssey was. They are touched upon, but they're not the point.

The point of the original 'Frankenstein' as written by Mary Shelley was to question the ethics of science by showing an extreme example of scientific progress. GiTS doesn't do that, it is taken for granted in that universe that technological progress should occur, it merely examines the questions that are raised about humanity in the progress.

Re:What is it with these Frankenstein plots?

[tr33limbz]

The idea of mans creation being infused with spirit and coming alive, and the ethical/moral consequences, are not new. not even close. way before frakenstein even. check out pinnochio. or the ancient legend of the gollem. (not the shitty tolkein gollum, the clay man gollum of middle eastern and hebrew myth). so, its not really a "Sci-fi" plot you are fed up with, is it?

See original first?

[JLSigman]

Considering the nearest theater showing the film is 4 hours away, this may make or break my getting to it. Do you need to have seen the original movie to understand this one?

Re:See original first?

[Alizarin Erythrosin]

If the plot summaries imply what I think they do, you probably should.

Re:See original first?

[digitalghost1]

If you missed the first one your going to kill yourself if you sit and watch this one. The climax of the film won't really do it for you. The first GITS will let you appreciate this one much more than just seeing GITS 2 alone would.

HOW DO I MAKE IT STOP?

[Enigma2175]

How the hell do I get these Anime stories off my homepage? I have selected the "Anime" option under the "Exclude Stories From The Homepage" section of my preferences, but I still get the full gamut of stories. Anyone know how to (really) turn them off?

Re:HOW DO I MAKE IT STOP?

[Chaotic Evil Cleric]

It looks like...

All your base belong to Taco!

Re:HOW DO I MAKE IT STOP?

[Kehvarl]

I think the easiest method is to simply dissalow connections from your machine to slashdot.org that should prettyeffectively stop you from getting the anime stories.

This is all well and good

[thegrommit]

but what happened to Appleseed? The last I heard, it had a North American distribution deal, but not a peep since.

Re:This is all well and good

[tuffy]

but what happened to Appleseed? The last I heard, it had a North American distribution deal, but not a peep since.

Geneon has the license and it was supposed to be released to theaters this summer, but obviously that hasn't happened. The North American release date is still unknown. But the film is only 5 months old, so one shouldn't get too worried about it just yet.

MAPP Mouse by Masamune Shiro

[Shinzaburo]

If you like Ghost in the Shell, you'll love the MAPP Mouse by creator Masamune Shiro. It's one of the most unique designs ever to grace a mouse:

MAPP Mouse

Meh, theaters

[Julian Morrison]

It's out on suprnova too.

I love this century.

Re:Subtitled?

[Alizarin Erythrosin]

If you watch enough subtitied stuff (anime, movies like Brotherhood of the Wolf, even close captioned tv) you sorta get used to it and learn how to "read" them while still watching the main action. I know a few words here and there in Japanese, not very many though, but enough that during action scenes (whe they're most annoying) I don't need to know they're shouting "Damn!" or "Hurry!" or "Let's go!".

Re:display settings - anime? - help

[Anonymous Coward]

Several people are concerned that the exclusions are not working for their accounts. Instead of modding these messages offtopic, why not discuss the problem?

TiVo killed the sitcom star...

[Thud457]

I fail to see how you intend to base a whole reality TV show upon biting the heads off of chickens.

That might make one decent gross-out stunt, but a whole show?!!!

Why do I see this comment

[wowbagger]

I'm excluding assholes in my preferences, still I see your crap. Why?

YOU clicked on the story to post this drivel, so you brought this upon yourself, so kindly go Superglue your mouth, anus (same thing), and fingers together so that we won't have to hear from you again.

Re:Why do I see this comment

[szo]

Geez, I so knew there be answers like this. Thanks for playing, next please. Or, if you tried to be constructive, please tell me where should I raise this issue, 'cause I exhausted all other possibilities I could think of.

Re:Why do I see this comment

[Anonymous Coward]

So you checked slashcode, and emailed cowboyneal? Why do I doubt it?

Re:Why do I see this comment

[Bullet-Dodger]

Wow, you're on the 'S' names already? Really making some progress there. Better look out, szp! (That's way too obscure, isn't it?)

A step forward for anime

[samberdoo]

The plot is closer to the questions asked by Blade Runner than I, Robot (or the stories from which they came). If you look at the reviews that really matter, that is the reviewers that "get it" it is definitely worth seeing. I have already gotten emails telling me how sweet the visuals are. I guess you can take off points for the subtitles, but the whole experience in a good theater is amazing.

Apparently..

[AyeRoxor!]

Apparently not a single showing in the entire state of FL. Either that, or their show locator thinks it's too difficult to search the theater locations for STATE="FL". I do not consider no shows in one of the most populous states in the country "reasonably wide".

Re:Apparently..

[Anonymous Coward]

That's funny, I entered my zip and found a theater in Gainesville showing it. Oh well...

Re:Apparently..

[AyeRoxor!]

That's funny, I entered my zip and found a theater in Gainesville showing it. Oh well...

You apparently didn't read 99% of my post. I was remarking about how entering your state returned no results. Try it.

There's no reason why the engine can't determine if the submitted value is 2 characters, determine it's a state, and return all values in that state. It's just pathetic, lazy programming with no pride invested.

Re:Apparently..

[Anonymous Coward]

// Insert hurricane-related joke here

Re:Apparently..

[Provocateur]

And that's the Yahoo search engine!

But considering that it's showing HERE IN A NEW MALL IN MIAMI which is predominantly Hispanic I would consider it "reasonably wide". Gotta love those booming drums inthe soundtrack! Might watch it in a chemically-altered state next time!

Stupid Logic

[Anonymous Coward]

But until movie makers give proper movies better coverage, I think I will find other means of getting my entertainment.

That seems fair to me. The theater owners aren't providing service, so you're going to stick it to the film directors. Nice logic.

Live Action GITS

[digitalghost1]

Can't wait to see it. I understand there is a live action version of GITS1 on the table, James Cameron is supposedly looking into doing Evangelion. But I'd rather see Peter Jackson do the first GITs. What you people think?

Re:Live Action GITS

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently it's already been done...?

Re:Live Action GITS

[digitalghost1]

Not true, exactly. Yes it is true that GITS was the inspiration for the Matrix movies, but I would rather not see another Keanu film eat away at another cyber punk film (think Johnny Nemonic) and instead have people who are talented (like directors, actors) to do a decent live action version of GITS.

Re:Live Action GITS

[Anonymous Coward]

cyber punk film

Please, Dude: The preferred nomenclature is transhumanist.

Re:Live Action GITS

[digitalghost1]

Ha ha, yeah right. Ehtical use of technology to extend human capabilities. This site if full of crap, ethics has no place here. You think the military is going to "ethically extend" human bodies with technology? The stuff you find on the Internet I'm never surprised.

Bleh

[CaptRespect]

cus anime is teh suck

Re:Bleh

[Anonymous Coward]

cus anime is teh suck

Just like your mother.

Steamboy

[boa13]

I just saw Steamboy last wednesday : though not the greatest animé of all times, it entertained me a lot. (Sitting in the best seat of one of the finest theatres in Paris helped.)

If you like big machines that grow ever bigger, breathtaking action, technical excellence, and lively illustration of times past: this is your movie.

If you want blood, barely-dressed women, computers and ray guns, stay away.

You'll miss crushed buildings, bullets, bombs, weird mechanical war machines, and the cool effects highly-compressed steam can have upon release, though.

why do they bother?

[aminorex]

I guess movies still make money by using a big
theatrical release to pump dvd sales, but for
Miyazaki, hasn't his entire target audience already
seen Innocence before it was released? Maybe the
10% who can't afford a decent home theatre will
crave the big screen enough to make it work as a
commercial release, once you add the 4 or 5% that
can't make a mental disctinction between copying
information and taking candy from a baby.

Re:why do they bother?

[tuffy]

I guess movies still make money by using a big theatrical release to pump dvd sales, but for Miyazaki, hasn't his entire target audience already seen Innocence before it was released?

There is no connection between Hayao Miyazaki and "Innocence". Miyazaki's films pay for themselves several times over before reaching home video - and in two cases becoming the highest grossing films ever in Japan. Mamoru Oshii's films like "Innocence" are niche titles that reach profitability once they get to DVD. The theatrical release is mostly a formality and advertising. But the notion that everyone's seen it is overestimating the amount of people who import DVDs or pirate the film.

Watchowski ripped Shirow, not the opposite

[zr-rifle]

This frequently spurrs "Matrix"-like discussions and situations where characters are trying to determine what is real and what isn't.

This comment is very unfair towards GITS and Masamune Shirow himself. The W. brothers have acknolwedged GITS as a major source of inspiration for the Matrix trilogy.
So it would Matrix that frequently spurrs "GITS" like discussions, not the opposite.

Re:Watchowski ripped Shirow, not the opposite

[feelafel]

Yeah, I know that, and you know that, but "The Matrix" has been seen by more people and I was looking for a way to let people know what to expect. I didn't mean to imply that such conversations were a ripoff.

I just hope this comes to Brazil

[agoliveira]

We have a quite large groupe of anime fans here but it's rare to have wide distribution of anime in movie theaters.

How does it related to GITS 1/Stand Alone Complex?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it a sequel, prequel, side story, or just remake of the previous GITS?

w00t!

[SphericalCrusher]

I'm a huge fan of the first movie, so I'll be checking this one out as soon as possible. I work for a movie theater, and it really blows having to drive to another city just because none of the ones around here are playing it. It's a good thing I still won't have to pay though -- we're affiliated with almost every movie theater in this state.

47 Theaters

[slaad]

...seems to be available in a reasonably wide distribution for anime.

This seems to be 47 theaters, still a disappointing low number.

slashcode bug

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently it's an open bug right now.

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=4421&at id =104421&func=detail&aid=994148

Re:Subtitled?

[Anonymous Coward]

Overrated? The guy asked a legitimate question! You anime fags suck!

Obviously...

[Zilfondel2]

You haven't seen Akira yet. Or Cowboy Bebop.

Really?

[crhylove]

Innocence in theaters? Does that mean there's no bad divx out on Shareaza yet? Get me my mini-cam honey!

On the contrary

[Kootaphor]

Looks like my little ol' Tallahassee's got it right now, Miracle 5. Whoo hoo!

jrm4.com

Anime rental in Montreal, Canada

[Midnight Thunder]

If you are in Montreal and wish to rent Anime, then a few places I know of include:
- Sci-Fi Anime: on Decarie, nr Villa-Maria metro
- Marche Clandestin: on Ontario, nr St-Denis
- La Boite Noire: on St-Denis, below Mont-Royal
- Zip.ca: not really in Montreal, but Canada wide, has a selection

The do have Ghost in the Shell: SAC. Otherwise if you wish to buy, from somewhere other than Amazon, then 'Metro Video' has a good selection. At $30-$40 (+tax) a go anime DVDs are far from cheap :(

I realise this is a little off-topic, but hopefully it should be useful to someone.

Re:Subtitled?

[Anonymous Coward]

>> Japanese (nihongo)

Fuckin' poseur. We all know it's called fucking nihongo and those that don't, don't give a rat's arse.

Hmm...

[Midnight Thunder]

There used to be the Japanese version the Japanese web site of the film, but they seem to have removed the trailer and redone the site.

The trailer was originally in Quicktime. There are two versions of thr trailer, one which is around 33MiB and the other around 56 MiB.

Searching with google (terms: 'ghost shell innocence mov') I got this one amongst them:

FilmForce: Exclusive Preview

Re:Mulholland Dr

[DeadScreenSky]

Mulholland Dr's plot is really, really simple, though it might not seem like it at first.

Spoilers abound:
The film is divided into three parts, all clearly separated: the quick part in the beginning, pre-credits (with the head falling towards the bed - apparently post-suicide), the middle section (which is a dying dream/hallucination - a fantasy constructed out of bits of reality), and the third section after the box is opened (which is a flashback to the real events leading up to that suicide). Once you understand that this is how the parts fit together, the film becomes pretty clear, though thankfully not completely transparent. Obvious questions remain, like who or what is the 'monster' in the alleyway and what do they represent, does the cowboy represent her father or someone in a similar role, who are the scary old people, etc. But the core of the story is completely clear and makes perfect sense.

A very detailed breakdown can be found at Salon.

When I'm watching a movie or a TV show, I really don't WANT to HAVE to analyse what I'm watching to derive its meaning. It's called "entertainment" and I'm watching it because-GASP-I want to be ENTERTAINED. If I want to think, I'll pick up a book.

I find this viewpoint very bizarre. Are you saying that only books are artistic enough to require thinking? Regardless, you are really selling cinema and television short - plenty of great art is made in both mediums, and it can enrich your life in specific ways art like books can't.

And if you aren't able to be entertained by a beautiful, funny, scary, sexy, well-acted film like Mulholland Drive without completely "understanding it" - well, maybe you need to reexamine what you are looking for in films, and why you have this need to fully understand something to enjoy it.

Junk in the Shell Who?

[Anonymous Coward]

I saw the first one, and was severely disappointed. Besides having no idea how to tell a story for non-Japanese mystic anime fanboy audiences, the whole experience left me cold. I can't believe anyone would bother making a sequel.

Re:Mulholland Dr

[penginkun]

See, the fact you had to explain it (and probably had to have it explained to you first) tells me I'm closer to being right than you are.

I'm in no way saying that films and television are incapable of being good. But to say complex = good, simple = bad is a binary division *I* don't get. Why can't something simple be good and something complex be bad?

And if you aren't able to be entertained by a beautiful, funny, scary, sexy, well-acted film like Mulholland Drive without completely "understanding it" - well, maybe you need to reexamine what you are looking for in films, and why you have this need to fully understand something to enjoy it.

The problem with this is that I didn't say any such thing. I enjoyed the look and feel of the film. I enjoyed some of the performances. I certainly enjoyed the sexy ladies. But the plot...the plot was so convoluted and muddled that it wasn't even remotely obvious to me. I don't consider myself to be any sort of an intellectual, but I can usually get the gist of a film.

No matter how beautiful and sexy and whatever the film was, nothing at all can change the fact that IT HAD TO BE EXPLAINED AFTER THE FACT. I'm not so stuck on myself that I'd deny that I didn't understand it, not even a little bit. Granted, that's generally the case with "art" cinema, so maybe that was the point.

Is there something wrong with wanting to be able to follow a coherent plot? With wanting to be able to understand the plot without having to refer to Cliff's Notes? With wanting a film to be comprehensible? I don't want condescension. I just want the pieces to fit together into something I can recognise when it's all done.

Of course, as I said before, what I look for in entertainment is MY problem, not yours. If what I like doesn't match with what YOU like, why should I care about that? Are you the arbiter of all that is right and good in entertainment? Do you know better than I what I like? No? Then what do you care?

Hardwired?

[Thag]

Yeah, because pissing off Walter Jon Williams would have been a much better idea...

Jon Acheson

Re:Subtitled?

[wrook]

Before making comments like that, you might want to stop to think that many people can't read quickly. They may have a learning disability (dyslexia), or perhaps they just have poor vision. These people are perfectly literate and not blind, but they may not be able to keep up with a subtitled movie.

I mention this because my last GF had this problem and we avoided subtitled movies. I missed many good flicks this way. I would take bad dubbing over not seeing the movie any day. There are reasons that people complain.

BTW, now that I'm no longer with my ex, I prefer subtitled movies if I can find them. However, I sympathize with those that can't deal with them.

Saith the SlashDork.

[Anonymous Coward]

Somehow I doubt that will be an issue for Slashdot readers.

In Mass we have it at two places

[Anonymous Coward]

Massachusetts not being a big state has two showings probably less than 10 miles apart. Copley and Cambridge. Sux to live in western mass.

Out on DVD already

[NetCAM]

I find it funny because it just came out the 15th in Japan on DVD. Im going pick it up when I go past a video store in the next couple days. Then I only have to worry about playing it on a Region 1 DVD player, but thats another issue.

A Matrix and Ghosy in the Shell comparison

[LazyGun]

Ok so youve seen the both the Matrix and Ghost in the Shell, and you note there are some similarities. But how similar are they? Well with this page will attempt show them scene by scene

I came, I saw, it kicked ass!

[l0ungeb0y]

I just got through watching the premier at the Embarcaro in SF and this is one of the rare sequels to live up to the original. Definitely a thinking mans movie with some serious eye candy. All I can say is AMAZING.

If you take your action/sci-fi Hollywood-style and find dialogue/plot to be boring, then this is not the movie for you.

To me, this movie is on a level on par with Blade Runner. The world they create in this movie is extremely rich the story is engaging and thought provoking -- they took all the elements of GS:1 and raised it to a new level. I'm definitely hoping for a 3rd installment by the same producers.

Re:I came, I saw, it kicked ass!

[digitalghost1]

I agree, there is plenty of eye candy to go around but the story gives the movie it's momentum. If you like I-Robot your not missing anything here. Definitely dark and bleak, some of the city scape scenes are staright out of Blade Runner. It would be nice to see another sequel, they have a great saga going here I hope they don't f'it up.

Wanna see the first one?

[bXTr]

For those who haven't seen the first GITS, it airs tonight at 11PM CST on the Action channel. How's that for timing, eh?

Re:How does it related to GITS 1/Stand Alone Compl

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a sequel to the first GitS film.

Stand Alone Complex takes place in an alternate universe where the events in GitS did not occur and Major Kusanagi didn't leave Section 9.

BitTorrent Download...

[dutt]

It's available for download at http://suprnova.org/ Enjoy!

Motoko was a robot, not a cyborg

[Quizo69]

It was my understanding that Motoko Kusanagi was in fact a robot, and that Batou is the cyborg. Watch scenes like her dive, and the end when she's in the new temporary body, to realise that her mind was the entity in the first place (a program which has evolved by merging with another program).

I'm looking forward to GITS 2 because I really enjoyed the thinking required in the first one to get your head around the fact that she was a sentient robot, and what that meant when she was asking what it was to be human.