Slashdot Mirror
Jon Bringing WMV9 to Linux
julie-h writes "DVD Jon has done it again. This time it wasn't Apple the target, but Microsoft's WMV9 video format. There is as always a working Proof of Concept program with screenshots."
← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)
sit in his chair with those two big brass ones?
This
Thanksgiving night, and there's still enough of us sitting around doing nothing better than looking at /. that the pictures are already down.
jock strap
wmv9 and a slashdotted site?
One's a sick duck... I can't remember how it ends but your (you slashdotters) mother's a whore.
When will people learn not to get links to their blogs on the main page of /. ?
Here's the Google Cache link.
To watch porn, duh.
Is it going to support those annoying-as-piss instructions in some files that open IE and point it to random websites?
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
I have a mother in law who is Hungarian, when she visits, she watches hungarian language programming, offered only in, windows media format.
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Yes, it is a record. Just like the other five million stories that have had links dead in 0-20 comments.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
It's people like DVD Jon who make me feel like a total sham everytime someone calls me a "computer genius". What's he got for us next?
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
I suppose I'm pleased that this will give me access to a wider range of material playable on my Linux boxen. On the other hand, I feel uneasy, knowning almost certainly that this isn't legal (C'mon, this is DVD Jon!). While I might disagree with the law, isn't Linux still trying to regain respectability after the SCO accusations? They may have been false, but claims of pirated software in Linux wrt this are almost certainly true.
- Story
- Screenshot 1
- Screenshot 2
--J.Flanders: It's like I'm wearing nothing at all... nothing at all... nothing at all...
Heh, DVD Jon uses gnome and fedora! Noob! ... no wait...
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
From the article linked to the blog post, it seems that he got the reference decoder for the VC-1 standard, which is compatible with WMP9, to work in VLC. The headline makes it look like there was some sort of reverse engineering done here, but after actually reading the article (gasp), it doesn't seem like that's the case.
Of course, noone in the linux community give a ripe fuck about whether or not the code they run is legal.
Fool!
That's all we care about. Why do you think we make so much of an issue about companies making exclusive deals to release video and audio in formats that don't have any sort of official support from the format creator? It's not like we own DVD-audio players and our music only comes in SACD; the ability to play WM9 is only several hundred lines of code away and yet we're expected to purchase a completely different operating system to be able to play them.
The sad story about using "illegal" code in Linux (isn't libdvdread still like this?) is that it is often more useful than the a) hard to find b) not that great altenative. I personally find that where there is both a commercial and free version of a linux program ported from Windows, the commercial version acts like cripple-ware.
Direct away from face when opening.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&cl ient=REAL-tb&q=define%3Ahyperbole&btnG=Sea rch
Remove extra spaces.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
So it is running in a GPL program (VLC) using an open (VC1) standard. Details? Anyone? Link to the source? Hello?
Just not legally. Of course, noone in the linux community give a ripe fuck about whether or not the code they run is legal.
You got modded flamebait but you raise a valid point, Linux previously did try and adhere to legality whenever possible. There was the whole not including a mp3 codec debacle.
I have proposed a Black Hat Linux, it will come with a windows installer on the same DVD and a bunch of closed source apps.
Unfortunatly I also believe in the Linux movement, the idea of freeing all software may be forwarded more rapidly by creating free alternatives and having them widely adopted to the extent that no one will WAMT to pay for software, (as opposed to everyone agreeing to steal it and driving the closed source companies out of business). Either way would accomplish the same purpose.
Take me to your source.... :)
So I can make tee-shirts out of it....
Then make a song, poem and even a music video from the same code...
Gee, that's great. Fantastic. Except I have Linux running on a PowerPC. What's that? I'm SOL because those closed-source DLLs are for a different processor? Darn. Maybe this is a good thing after all.
According to the blog, it seems it uses VC-1 reference decoder to play WMV9 on Linux. IIRC VC-1 is open source now after it was submit to SMPTE for the review. Is there any difference between VC-1 and WMV9 except for four CC code and other trivial things?
Also, at the first glance at the headline of this story, I'd thought DVD Jon cracked DRM on WMV9 and delighted, but he didn't apparently, so non-Linux people don't have much to rejoice about this story anyway. If I'm mistaken and this story can be related to Windows Media DRM somehow, please point it to me as I'm happy if that's true.
The worst thing about this is that if software companies actually *supported* Linux, they would never have to deal with any of this. They are forcing people to crack copy protection so they can view media that they purchased online. I don't really understand it. There's Windows Media Player for Mac OS X and its market share is roughly equal to that of Linux. It really wouldn't be that hard for Microsoft to release a generic codec pack for Linux.
Its runs on BSD as well. Plenty of people do take linux seriously thats why its the #2 OS on the market. Most apps that run on FreeBSD are originaly made on linux and then ported to BSD. Just a few people do some things you dont agree with dosnt mean there a script kiddie.
There is no such thing as illegal code.
Only illegal laws.
Hasn't this been possible all along, with MPlayer? Their codec status table lists "Windows Media Video 9 DMO" as working. Is that not the same thing as the WMV9 referred to here?
-- If no truths are spoken then no lies can hide --
People people.... Jon just has access (legally this time) to the VC1 reference codec and sources. He simply decided to look at how easy it was to use this in VLC. From what i remember (this was more than 6 weeks ago or something) it was half a days work. Mind you that he didn't release anything. He doesn't need to. He said that the VC1 licensing terms are less strict than MPEG4 and Jon can just use the sources after the VC1 codec is 100% final, which isn't too far off. (btw. MPEG group should really get their act together, cause VC1 truly has better licensing atm and people are getting fed up with the MPEG mess).
It does not seem that DVD Jon has completely released his project yet, so if you are want to play WMVs in linux now, try using xine. Quote from the xine site: "...It also decodes multimedia files like AVI, MOV, WMV, and MP3 from local disk drives...". With the small collection of trailers and a few movies from lmule (it's like emule), I have not experienced one problem with xine.
If Microsoft could allow images to run code when viewed, I guess video files are no different. Watch out all you porn viewers using Windows Media Player.
Your modem is about to disconnect and dial The Czech Republic.
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
I think, you might have missed, a few, commas. I know Wil Wheaton posts to Slashdot, but I didn't know about Shatner.
He didn't crack the WMV9 codec, he used the VC-1 reference codec which is based on WMV 9 video streams. I don't think it's that big a deal ...
George Washington, America's first president, signed Thanksgiving Day into existence...he made it obviously a Christian day of thanking God..it originally was NOT the "yay settlers!" day it has become
i think the most relevant statement in his 1789 Thanksgiving Proclamation when he created Thanksgiving Day is:
"And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions"
there is literally NOTHING in his proclamation of thanksgiving about the Pilgrims, or any other settler group...TAKE THAT MY ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TEACHER!!
if you don't get to do stuff like that
I believe the difference is that those plugins are merely hacked versions of the Microsoft codecs. Not only is this illegal, but it means that the codecs are *not* portable, and can't go anywhere but x86. The codec DVD Jon is apparently his own code, and can do whatever he wants.
At least not how you are thinking of open source. It's an open standard, controlled by SMPTE, that you can license. Thus it's probabaly illegal to use this without paying the license fee. So it's open in that anyone can get it, it's controlled by a standards body, not MS, but it's not OSS.
Now VC-1 and WM-9 are pretty much the same, and at this point it's not a huge streatch to take the VC-1 code and develop it to a full blown WM-9 player (which he seems to have done). However MS could chanve the WMV format at any time they like, and break compatibility. VC-1 will remain what ti is and they can't change it without SMPTE's approval (which makes the changes available to everyone), however WMV isn't necessiarly going to be the same thing.
I am a bit confused by the status of WMV ...
I thought WMV and H.264 were supposed to be standards for the next generation of High Definition DVD video and that the specs for WMV had been released out in the open no? If the specs are out there, why hasn't somebody written the codec for it?
S.r.
Oh Really?
The president is not appointed by god, and just because the president says stuff about god doesn't make it true...
I'm too tired for real examples, but think of how often Dubya invokes God - very unsavory, if I should say so (see sig)
WMV9 (a.k.a. VC-1) and H.264 are not yet in the standard for the HD-DVDs. They were sent to SMPTE for approval as standards in the HD-DVD standard. Microsoft apparently did some futzing and might have WMV9 disqualified due to some fibs told to SMPTE.
Currently there is a codec for WMV9, Microsoft owns it. Some other companies have liscensed it. The standard might be available but it takes a long time to work out an efficient codec that gives a good picture. In a few years it may be at a quality where TV stations will use it for interstation to air broadcast. But that is whith proffesional coders working on it.
Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
this appears to be using the vlc and vc-1 source code to give vlc wmv support. no dlls needed and it should compile and work just peachy on your platform (might require some #ifdef work to take care of the endian differences, but should be a relatively trivial operation)
...note that this type of work may become illegal if the EU embraces software patents.
As you're in the one region of the world that seems to not be bowing down to corporate interests at every opportunity, please do what you can to ensure it doesn't happen.
I *want* to watch video on my Linux box; I don't want to have to buy MS product just so my kids can watch movies that we've paid for.
>If you are not in a swing state, and your candidate won't win, vote for a party you actually like.
:)
Dude, you need a new sig.
Yeah... his children will be way smarter than him... always a pain.
Incase you are wondering, why port WM9 to linux?
Some HDTV quality video is only in WM9, and some HDTV-DVD's also. Also for those pay music services that only use WM9.
http://www.wmvhd.com/
I wonder what Microsoft is gonna have Jon charged with?
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
Could somebody who actually made it to these web pages post their content so that the rest of us can read them.
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
I know this is going to be modded as flamebait or whatever... ...but...
Who cares?
First, don't FOSS alternatives exist?
Second, from personal experience lavc's mpeg4 is good enough even at relatively low rates [sub 1 mbps].
Third, I'm tired of one person getting credit for shit. I'm sure it wasn't just Jon sitting at his puter typing away to make this happen.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
The group of hackers that uses DVD Jon as their scapegoat has hacked WMV?
Sure there is!
>gcc mycrap.c
Compiling...
SYNTAX ERROR!
Q. What's a valid patent?
A. One that hasn't been tested in court.
Who's to say that there's any valid IP in WMV9 ? Of all organisations, MS and the US Patent Office are the last I'd trust to tell me.
This seems incredibly important, since it appears the first time that WMV9 can be decoded without using a windows DLL.
Perhaps now i'll be able to use WMV9 without using M$'s player on my Mac.
--- Kicking the Cheat since late 2002
I suppose the problem is that regardless of how good a piece of software is people generaly don't like change, and in many cases it's a matter of who has gained a certain amount of power over consumer's based on their sense of safety in familiarity. It goes even further then that, as software companies purposely make it very difficult for people to switch to alternatives as they use thier political and monetary power to force the adoption of standards that require licenses when there are open standards of the same or better quality that don't have the same kind of power behind them that if adopted would give the consumer more options, increase competitivness in the products that use the standard by making it easier for new companies to enter the market, and ultimately provide consumers with better inexpensive products.
Haven't you heard? The terrorists want WMV!!
What nationality is she when she isn't visiting?
The answer for a video decoder is 10 cents per unit with a $40,000 cap. Windows Media Licensing Fees and Royalties (September 2004)
You want to see Linux on every desktop? Would it kill you to admit that shelling out the bucks to license proprietary technologies that might actually get you there makes some sense?
None of the commercial Linux distros are going to touch a decoder that has "lawsuit" written all over it.
Cut-n-pasted from http://snltranscripts.jt.org/96/96jstarwars1.phtml
.wmv though ;)
Voice of Director: Christopher Walken, Han Solo screen test. Okay, Chris, whenever you're ready.
Christopher Walken: "I'm Captain of.. the Millenium.. Falcon. Chewie here.. tells me.. you're looking for passage.. to the.. alderaan system."
Voice of Director: "Yes, indeed, It's a fast ship."
Christopher Walken: "Fast.. ship? You've never heard.. of the.. millenium falcon? It's the ship.. that made the kessel run.. in less than.. 12 parsecs. She's.. fast enough.. for you.. old man.." That sucked! I'm sorry.. [ turns and walks away ] You know.. I had it..
Cheers
Stor
p.s. If you haven't seen this skit, try googling for it. It may only be available in
"Yeah well there's a lot of stuff that should be, but isn't"
a number of indian tribes sided with the British
What do the citizens of India have to do with Thanksgiving?
Native Americans are not from India you insensitive clod.
Tell that to saddam....
/. titles are getting to me...to much tryptophan.....
I mean, Jon's a hacker and all, so that must mean he's a terrorist, right? Of course he'd want WMD.
oh! WMV!
Man, I gotta get some sleep, the
Most of the hard work is in the encoder, which has to recognize frame-to-frame motion and make hard decisions. The decoder just does what the data stream says to do.
Maybe someone can explain this to me. It would seem to me that there's no encryption being broken here. But let's say we wanted to play a WMV9 -drm'd movie in linux using this code. We would have to decrypt the DRMd content somehow no? So now I assume that this is where the whole downloadable license thing comes into play. So let's say DVD-John 's algorithm downloads a license to play the drm'd file. What's to stop a rogue programmer from outputting the decrypted video stream to file ? I would have assumed the protection previosuly lied in Windows Media Player and its closed sourcebase preventing this option from becoming practical to a user. Now if we have the ability to play back DRM'd files as easily as I outlined it above, doesn't that completely destroy the ability of content producers to provide DRM'd content? Or is that exactly what RMS' point has been the last few years.
All this time I've assumed there was something big that I was missing in this whole DRM scheme . It seems totally inconceivable to me that Microsoft/Apple/Real/etc honestly believes that they can coax all content players to respect the content provider's wishes.
"um, lots of web content is only offered in WMV?"
Sure. And most of it is either pay per view or on a site that is advertising supported. So I simply email the webmaster and remind them that their content is in a format that can't be viewed by all. I further remind them that by limiting the number of viewers they limit their possible income.
Sure, I don't get a lot of response to that but I have had a couple of sites reply and then change their content.
It's not much of a "world" wide web if the world can't see your content.
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
Actually, the government still refuses to confirm or deny the existance of Area 51.
Actually no. The Air Force admitted to its existence several years ago.
I guess this gives Norway, whose court's have decided this to be legal, another push on George WW3 Bush's list of terrorist countries. Our brave norwegians have even resisted the pressure to join the european union. Remember that small village in Gaul? ;-)
Maybe it's a carefully crafted clue leading to the Templar treasure. :)
Ah, to be swashbuckling out there, as opposed to sitting behind a desk here, wrestling with old VB6 code.
If only the links weren't Slashdotted and I could waste more time revelling in someone else's success.
*sigh*
Yeah - especially all the comedy central Daily Show clips of Jon Stewart. That alone is enough to keep my machine a dualboot win/linux box, instead of linux only.
Servlet v2.4 container in a single 161KB jar file ? Try Winstone
Not once millions of files are encoded, they can't. Joe User wouldn't be happy if suddenly windows auto-update meant his kids' birthday videos don't work anymore.
My girlfriend's family is Yugoslavian when they're here (in Canada), and Croatian when they go there...
Oh, I hope we're a step closer to freeing up DRM restricted WMV files and here's why...
I bought (as in I paid for) WMV files from MLB.com of this year's baseball playoffs because I didn't save my TiVo'd copies and wanted to have the games in my personal archive. At MLB.com, they used advertising verbiage like "watch them whenever you want!" and "burn them to CD!". Apparantly I didn't read the fine print close enough (or maybe it wasn't in the fine print), but those files are heavily DRM restricted. I have to be connected to the internet and log onto MLB.com to watch them. And even then, I can't even fast forward. Pathetic.
All I wanted to do was to convert them DVD-compatible MPEG2 for MY USE. I want to watch them on my TV instead of my computer. I paid for them and I should be able to view them somewhere other than my PC. I searched high and low and couldn't find a way to break the DRM. Sheesh, it's not like I'm trying to do anything that could be construed as illegal, at least by any rational person. Really frustrating.
If Jon's thing helps free these files in a way that will allow me to media-shift them, then I'm all for it! Even if it's not so I can watch them on Linux. Heck, I've had to use DeCSS to extract MPEG files from DVDs of MY OWN HOME VIDEOS because the original tapes were damaged. How pathetic is it that I needed a tool like that in order to view files that I and I alone own copyright on?
-S
--- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mgenteindios.h tml
Google reveals that this has been done already before. Check out http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/5-105.html, for example.
Total rubbish. India was known as India long before. Hindustan was never a word used by the British. Columbus genuinely thought he had found India: that's why the Caribbean islands are known, even today, as the "west Indies". As others have pointed out, your "in dios" explanation is totally bogus, but it's typical of slashdot that you'll get a +5 informative for it.
Use it like this: like this
More about Coral: http://www.scs.cs.nyu.edu/coral/.
Simpy
If you're worried that owners of the linked sites won't get usage statistics, the cache could be set up to count how many times it was accessed, and the statistics could be emailed to the site owner. The email would look something like this:
You get the idea.Why settle for clips (registration required)
...comas would have been more appropriate when talking about shatner... ;-)
Funny, I would have thought the "preferred term" would be whatever they want to be called. In canada the usual term is "first peoples" or "first nations" which is easy enough. But using the name of the actual group of people you are referring to is always better if you can. And I'm 99.99999% sure the Wampanoag were _not_ Xtian back at the time of the first Thanksgiving.
___
Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum.
The Video Codec is WMV3, the whole shebang together with the new audio Codec and lots of DRM is just called Windows Media 9!
;-) I've been waiting for that for a long time, and the WMV3-videos that wouldn't run with Mplayer and VLC REALLY started to piss me off...
Thank you, Jon!
> Columbus, seeing the people who lived on Hispaniola, wrote in his log that they were
> "una gente in dios", Spanish for "naked people".
Wrong. "una gente in dios" doesn't mean anything in Spanish. Probably is a typo, where Columbus wanted to say "una gente SIN Dios", refering to the fact that they were no catholics. If you want to say "naked people" using "gente" and "Dios" you would say "la gente iba como Dios la trajo al mundo" (people was like when they were born).
> "En dios", or "in God", referred to their lack of clothing; in Spanish, "en"
> becomes "in" when it follows a terminal "e".)
Wrong again. In Spanish "in" does not exists as a word.
> India, the country, was known to England at the time as Hindustan, not India.
In Spain at the age India was known as "Las Indias". Columbus was searching for and optimal route to "Las Indias y Cipango" (India and Japan) when he found America. Because he couldn't imagine he had found another continent, he thought people he found were Indians.
Nowadays in Spanish you have to distinguish between "Indios" (native people from America) and "Hindúes" (people from India), tought Indios is a more intuitive name for people from India.
Bye
-- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}"
Native-ian.
Whatever it is, it's profound.
That Apple could be mentioned in an article and there not be a reference to "iPod" or "iPod killers"?!?
My world has turned upside down.
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
While using WMV on Linux will probably break the end user license, lets not forget that Microsoft have been found to be breaking laws with their anti-competitive practises.
So such licenses are questionable. You have a computer hardware to run it, you have the software required to decode the files. Why should you be forced to buy and use a specific operating system to do the job? especially if there's a free alternative that is better.
It's politics like this that make me think about taking up another interest.
"The critical question is: why? There's no legitimate reason to want WMV."
You're right. Linux is so much better off with fewer capabilities.
"Derp de derp."
Finally, I think, he has done something with a good purpose (I am really addicted to this word today).
Cracking CSS was good, because it allows for us to back-up our movies, which sure is fair-use... It also allows us to share these copies, but that's another story.
Cracking Apple's FairPlay "technology" was not that important. Was it meant for "playing our AAC's on any device"? I doubt it! I haven't seen that many non-Apple players that support the format, even if unprotected. Apple tries to tie the consumer into their products, but I don't see people buying music from the iTMS for playinh iy in other players, and the restrictions are pretty loose. You can have your files authorized for 3 different computers and 2 iPods (I am not sure here)... I think it's prety good for me and for most people and that creates a good relationship between Apple and the record labels, be it good or not. I, personally, think that $0.99 for song is a good price point for what you can do with the music.
But, for his last feat, that's really good! Linux needs the more compatibility with "3rd-party standards" it can get if it is to be on the desktop any time in the future.
Now, if someone could reverse engineer all those QuickTime codecs and get QuickTime on Linux decently!
I didn't know you could program in hungarian language... And that people were shooting videos of it, and offering them on the net.
I live in a community that is almost entirely composed of aboriginal people, and I've never met anybody who wasn't offended by being called an Indian. Thats the only reason I said anything at all. That and the opportunity for a gratuitous insensitive clod usage presented itself.
1. We get to pay our huge (non-)member fee
2. We get to have our fresh meat look like stone (gray) since we can't continue using harmless methods for keeping it red looking. (New EU rule - USA just accepted this method, we've used it since the sixties, but no more)
3. We get to obey a lot of other freaky EU rules, packing our lives with bureaucracy.
4. We don't have to bother what the EU decides, we don't have a voice anyway.
5. Even if we had a voice, we wouldn't have to care at all as we're just 4 million people against Germany's 82 million, so we don't even have to sit in the EU parlament.
6. We get to PAY, and PAY, and PAY and don't have to do nothing but OBEY THE RULES, that noone in southern Europe cares about! No stress!
Man! I'm sick of EU. Gimme my country back.
If web content isn't a good reason for having the wmv9 codec on windows then HD DVD's will be a good one. Most of the options in contention right now have the wmv9 codec at the center of them (I think) and so it would be very valuable if linux was able to decode that video.
Of course the next step will be getting around the enevitable DRM that will encumver those DVD's.
"You can now flame me, I am full of love,"
here is white, what about you?
That license is indeed liberal ,but if users exceeded it like he does with companies, would he care?
Why does yahoo do this
He is I guess what you would call a "PR guy" for a group of talented individuals (hackers) who do the work. It didn't even have to be anyone at nanocrew, it could have been someone else who was too shy or afraid to release this stuff herself. (Big bad microsoft and all)
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
I mean, is the whole stream encrypted or is there a content-control header that DirectShow marshals that you can ignore?
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
I wonder how much Microsoft REALLY wants to start taking companies/people to court for IP claims. Think about it, they have WAY more to hide than any other company I can think of( governments not included ).
A court case would legally allow the defendant to request internal Microsoft documents in the discovery phase. IIRC, Microsoft has, in the past, settled most if it's cases before discovery occured and has even required that "discovery" documents be destroyed in cases it settled after discovery.
I wonder if their new policy of deleting / destroying documentation over 30 days old will bite them in their desire to try to use IP claims in fighting the spread of GNU/Linux?
IMO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
It's quite simple. Indians come from India. To continuosly call those who where here before the murderers came shows the quality of an american education.
Sorry to burst your bubble but WMV has been approved.
Seems like MS we will be seeing a lot of VC1 in the future....
Oh, I don't know, what do you think?
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Yes, well... it's a matter of nationalism...
If they call themselves yugoslavian here, it means that they didn't agree with the civil war.
Got a link?
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
4a. DVD Jon comes along again
4b. MSFT has WMV11
4c. DVD Jon comes along again
4d. MSFT can't win, so they hire DVD Jon
4e. DVD Jon eats donut and collect check
5. MSFT profit!
I believe you missed the parent post to which I was responding.
Try here.
"The Air Force finally admitted the existence of Area 51 on April 17, 2000, when Air Force spokeswoman Gloria Cales told Associated Press reporters, "We acknowledge having an operating site there [Area 51], and the work is classified." Cales added that the work done at Area 51 involved "operations critical to the U.S. military and the country's security."
Unfortunately, as someone else pointed out, "native American" is rather incorrect as well. I'm not of aboriginal origin, but I'm a "native" American, because I was born here, and as far as I'm concerned, that makes me as native as anyone on a reservation. Sure, my ancestors came from another continent, but so did those of any aboriginies; the only difference is time. Mine came a few generations or so ago (I actually don't know, since I don't know my family history), whereas the aboriginies came thousands of years ago over the land bridge between Asia and Alaska.
"Indian" would be a decent term to use, just because it's been in use so long, and wasn't used with ill-intent, but it's not a good term to use because it confuses aboriginies with people from the country of India. While this wasn't much of a problem 100 or more years ago, it's a real pain these days because so many people from India are living in the US now. Probably half my coworkers are from India (while none are aboriginies).
So, I consider "Aboriginal People" the best term of all to use, as I can't imagine how it's offensive, and it's not needlessly confusing. As for identifying people by their particular tribe or nation, that's pretty silly. Sure, that can be used when known or necessary, but for non-aboriginies, it's much more common to need a term for referring to all aboriginal people collectively, rather than listing every tribe. I've never heard of any Europeans insisting on others calling them by their particular country of origin, when the person was saying something about European people collectively. Why should aboriginal people be any different?
....mod that man through the floor. (-:
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Your statement assumes that all lawmakers are sane, reasonable and unbiassed. The odds against that are incredible.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Elephants and whales have cows and calves too, y'now.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Jon repackages existing, available stuff, and likes to take a bit of credit for that.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
test