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Exeem "Successor" to Suprnova Announced
First, Exeem really isn't an extension of Suprnova as the hype might have you believe: the connection between the two seems more marketing than anything else. Sloncek has been hired to promote their product as the heir apparent to his popular website, but his involvement really seems to be almost entirely PR. It'll work obviously: my headline on this story mentions Suprnova, and so will hundreds of websites around the world in the coming days. "Yet another p2p app" would not create anywhere near the waves that "Successor to Suprnova Announced" will. I hope that people judge exeem by its own merits and not by its (clever) marketing.
Second, Exeem is pretty much what was rumored earlier: a blending of the tracker, the BitTorrent client, and decentralized indexing. It's Windows only. It's in beta now, and will be out at some indeterminate date in the future. It also has a rating and commenting system which appears to be somewhat rudimentary. It's unclear to me if the rating system will be as useless as other attempts, and I think this is the critical thing: Suprnova succeeded because the content available on it was verified and trustworthy. Suprnova was as much the work of a few dozen editors as it was a list of torrent URLs. So far no other p2p system has achieved that level of accuracy. Exeem supports magnet sites which is a start, but not exactly p2p either. And did I mention that it's adware?
Third, there's a mystery company. Someone is paying Sloncek. He won't say who, but there's a history in the p2p world of secretive development. Since Exeem is to be adware, someday it will have a billing address, which means the legal issues faced by predecessors like Napster and Kazaa will be forthcoming, which is of course why we have a mystery company that Sloncek won't talk about in the first place. We definitely haven't heard the last of this.
Personally I was hoping for more: source code and cross platform compatibility never hurts. These are the things that made BitTorrent a huge success. I guess I was hoping for a new protocol instead of just another Kazaa. I guess I was hoping for a monumental leap, and instead Exeem to be a more incremental step. I'm sure we'll learn more in the coming weeks.
I can't help but wonder if BitTorrent is the application that finally pushes people towards Freenet. That would appear to be the obvious way of decentralizing it, without requiring platform specific software, and providing anonymity for both producers and consumers in the process.
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
There's going to be ads and crud with eXeem?
So basicly it's Kazaa without the quality of programming.
Goodie.
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
I really need to be able to mod slashdot errors...
-1 Annoying!
-1 Obvious! *sigh*
When in doubt, parenthesize. At the very least it will let some poor schmuck bounce on the % key in vi. (Larry Wall)
So it's Windows only and adware. This is nothing like Suprnova.
The parent article is a Troll.
you can already find cracked copies of the latest version on *gasp* bittorrent sites :)
Investing forum
what makes this better than other peer2peer programs like limewire or bearshare or mldonkey. If you remove the tracker/website approach then all the stuff out there becomes unverified and you lose the appeal of using BitTorrent.
Have you metaroderated recently?
Most of us find this very interesting and not annoying or obvious at all. I suggest you go back to IRC if slashdot is not to your taste. Let the rest of us build this community website.
If you know where to look, there's a closed beta of eXeem avaliable - however, it needs a beta key in order to join the network - and it can't be a random key, i.e. it's assigned by the Suprnova team. At the time of writing, the version I have is 0.16, and does NOT include any adverts of some sort, although yes Sloncek did confirm this earlier this evening.
The basic user interface is friendly, and it's basically a "compact" version of Kazaa (you have to use it to really understand).
As for the release date, it "won't be this week, or next week, but very very soon". It'll be an open beta, to chink out all the bugs.
... from the remaining BitTorrent tracking sites. Now all the kiddies can go download Exeem and the MPAA/RIAA/ can cook Exeem over the coals of the SuprNova fire while the rest of us keep using the many other tried and true tracking sites. I doubt Exeem will be around very long if they're advertising themselves as the new Suprnova.
Shouldn't these developers take a look at some of the research in this area?
Tangler, FreeHaven, and Publius come to mind.
Wouldn't it have resulted in a "Nothing for you to see here, move along please." error rather than a 404?
As to why the link didn't work, from the article "Since the official exeem.com website still isn't up"
Have you metaroderated recently?
No thanks ..
But at least they are upfront about it.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The best part of the interview was when they asked if there were goign to be ads on it.
"Uh.. well yes, it takes a lot of work to develop something like this so we will need to have ads"
classic.
"In Europe, he would have been a just lawyer, an original philosopher, a bold psychologist, an influential teacher. In Russia today, he could only be a novelist."
In some alternate universe, suprnova would have been the next indispensable web site, the next Google, the next platform for innovation, the next great leap forward for human knowledge. But in today's world, it's nothing more than hype for some new bullshit adware.
"source code and cross platform compatibility never hurts. These are the things that made BitTorrent a huge success" keep dreaming.... the lack of virus/trojan files and the good speed and availible of a wide variaty of files made it a success, most bittorent users don't even know what 'source code' is.
"It'll work obviously: my headline on this story mentions Suprnova, and so will hundreds of websites around the world in the coming days."
Yep. You couldn't have chosen another title for the article that wouldn't have worked for them. Nope. Had to go with that one. And then complain that it's just a marketing scheme. Yep. I'm feeling really sorry for you for being duped here!
Bittorrent has some interesting methods of making sure all parts of a file are available (sharing rarest parts first, for example), but I've been unable to find a complete list of how a file is shared.
There are some things I think would be interesting additions, such as sharing a the rarest part to users with the quickest turnaround time (determine how long it takes to download the file and then immediately upload it, and choose the person with the shortest time). Of course, that might already be the case, but I haven't been able to find out.
Some of us DID use 'nova for legal stuff...
Me personally, for both 'freely distributable' software, and 'timeshifting' of broadcast TV programs that are available in my market..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
This is probably really offtopic, but that's OK because I have bad karma anyways, and no one is going to see this.
I am a student in university, and I don't have much money to my name, so I don't buy DVDs, music CDs, and so on. What do I do instead? Simple: I download them for free off of the internet. Now I get to watch movies and listen to music without spending money. I relate it to taking donuts out of a dumpster being Tim Hortons after hours.
I don't even consider things like "freedom" or "ethics," or anything for that matter. I enjoy getting something for nothing. I like it when things are one click away.
I know that it makes some people very sad to hear this, but that's Ok with me. I am a good friend and human being, and I feel really bad about the disaster in Asia. I just don't care to pay fucking money for a movie.
Thanks for listening.
I cared before, and now I know I don't need to care any more. So to me, this news story was useful, even though like you I no longer care.
501 Not Implemented
Link to a torrent of interview as an MP3.
One of these days, everything will be on Google and firms will get paid by he number of cycles run in their apps, from a pool of moneys levied by bandwithtax - yuck.
This is not a signature.
I wonder if this will be a truly open technology, open source, and give us the ability to actually know what it is doing when it runs. And Windows only? Perhaps that will change, that wouldnt be a friendly policy to ignore users of other OSs. Microsoft isnt the entirity of the computing world.
I hope this app just isnt a commercial marketing type thing but is an open protocol, open source technology.
Sorry , I should have been more explicit: I actually saw a 404 error inside Slashdot itself (!!) ... not the 'Nothing to see here' message you mention. I have seen the latter on previous visits, infrequently, but I just thought it ironic that the 'Read More' link just ... didn't work at all.
:)
All of this was inside of Slashdot, not going externally to a non-existent site as you say
========================================
Death will come, and will have your eyes
-- Pavese
With all due respect to the Freenet team, they have done a lot of good work, but the network isn't designed for things like bittorrent. What you need is a low-latency network like TOR or i2p. With that said, anonymous Bittorrent already exists, its available to work on the i2p anonymous network. Just go to the i2p website, , install the software and then click on this: There are already bittorrent trackers on the i2p network. Why this hasn't been on slashdot is beyond me.
The whole interview is also available as a 9MB MP3 from the Suprnova site (there's a minute or so of music first). That's a direct download of the MP3 itself, not a torrents, so I won't post a clickable link to avoid Slashdotting the site. Anyone got a mirror?
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
eXeem 0.16 beta screen shots.
about p2p, but after ITunes came on the scene, I'd just rather pay my $.99/song and not have to screwaround with crappy adware or god-knows-what-else.
Yeah? Well I think you're overrated too.
Momma's Boy, Daddy's Girl, Sissy, Wuss, Pansy...
;)
Do I need to continue?
Friends help you move...
REAL Friends help you move dead bodies... ^_^
And I want to browse comments >2 and "-1 Troll"
The only good "advantage" bit torrent has over the edonkey protocol is that it is centralized and therefore content can be moderated. Also, because people generally seed/share very few torrents at a time (in comparison to other p2p programs) its generally much faster. This is the only reason it is faster, if edonkey users only shared the latest releases it would be just as fast. And to boot, couldnt be taken down as easily as something like suprnova.
emule already has a rating system, and there are plenty of 'fake search' and "release" indexes around that give hashes of "real" releases. BT is great for web sites to release legitimate content, but in reality is a poor "warez" distribution method, which is what all this is really about. The breakdown of suprnova may hopefully boost the much better p2p protocols around.
I.O.U One Sig.
The reason i'm being plusmodded funny is the TITLE of my post. If you click on a slashdot story before it backpropagates (I'm not quite sure how the slashcode works) you get an ERROR (Title bar set to "Slashdot error) from /. that says "Nothing for you to see here, please move along." The reason it is -1 OBVIOUS, is because there's a big white/blank page staring you in the face....
Luckily, you didn't have mod points and those that do get the joke.
*sigh*
When in doubt, parenthesize. At the very least it will let some poor schmuck bounce on the % key in vi. (Larry Wall)
http://p2p.weblogsinc.com/entry/1234000703025392 :)
Actually I have a horrible feeling that it is not legal to download things shown on TV, even though you _could_ just record thm on tape. Maybe its the distribution thats illegal and not the copying.
Yes, the iTunes Music Store is an excellent option for music. But currently there's no good way of downloading TV shows or movies legally. We need something along the lines of an iVideo Store. The ability to download individual TV episodes for $1 or $2 would be great.
I, for example, want to get Stargate Atlantis legally without paying an extra $30 per month to get a "good" cable TV package. I don't want all the other crap, just this one program. But like audio CDs, the problem with the existing system is that you have to buy it all just to get the one or two things you want.
Red herring. Seriously, every time some new network pops up, people wring their hands and say "oh, wont somebody please think if the kiddie porn!"
yes, because we are all part of a single group overmind, and it is entirely impossible that DIFFERENT PEOPLE at a discussion website might hold DIFFERENT OPINIONS.
That was sarcasm, just in case.
You Idiot.
For a laugh or three look at their archive of the legal threats they've recieved and their responses here
I'm a chainsmokin' alcoholic sociopath, so-ci-o-path
One notices that some people have started to post trackers on usenet; alt.binaries.torrents
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
I was referring to the MAJORITY of Slashdotters, especially the people who tend to get the mod points, disagree with someone, and find that excuse enough to mod someone down. Hence, people on Slashdot eventually stop having opinions that conflict with the standard pro-Linux pro-P2P anti-corporation mindset that the majority of Slashdotters have and it becomes a huge orgy of modding up people with popular opinions and modding down people with unpopular opinions.
Oh, and way to show your individuality by posting Anonymous Coward, dumbass.
A) Not platform independent.
B) The verb "hired" was used in conjunction with "Sloncek"
C) Closed beta, key based access, potential for ads
This is so stupid. Will someone please start up a competitor on Sourceforge? Or at least implement this tech in freenet or something. The idea isn't all that far out, *I* even thought of it last summer in my own slightly sucky way.
Direct away from face when opening.
I've seen /.'ers suggesting freenet as possible {il,}legal content distribution method. I'd like to disagree with this methodology.
There is already a working way to have anonymous BitTorrent - using Onion Routing protocol. It's great for privacy concerned netizens and if more people set up Tor Servers, Tor would gain critical mass needed to support both tracker AND data connections for BT.
Most of torrent clients supports Tor out-of-the-box, as tor is nothing but socks proxy for your programs. Torifying various applications is really a snap and there is a detailed guide on how to make Azureus BT client work flawlessly with Tor (see section 2.2 Totally Anonymous BitTorrent).
Currently, the only concern for the Tor authors is the fact, that the Tor network may not be able to handle the amounts of traffic, bittorent is able to generate.
However, if each one of you would set up a server with couple of kbps spare bandwidth, the tor network would immediately start scaling up.
Since BT relies on multiple (slow) transmissions occuring at the same time to create the "torrent effect", even if all the transmissions pick different routes trough tor network (taking slight performance hit), the overall performance of BT would remain unchanged.
There is also a very important aspect of tor. It allows you to create hidden services. Basically they are accesible via bogus URLs (like LKbalkbsflKflasbd.onion). The anonymity of the server is assured. More about hidden services at this address.
So, before you let the *oids start reinventing the wheel (and charge an arm and a leg for it), do your bloody homework and use what's already there :)
PS. tor is free software.
Power to the people!
Wait... What was the first and last time I downloaded from Suprnova? Oh yeah, it was Debian Woody that I downloaded!
The hip way to get your IP. No ads, ever.
Maybe I'll buy that argument when and if
/. and instead stick to CNN and Fox, who I'm sure are bound to print stories that deride filesharing per their corporate shareholders expressed views.
1) The US Govt outlaws the creation of file-sharing/P2P software
2) CmdrTaco adds a 0-day Warez "Downloads of the day" slashbox
If the fact of new P2P software offends you, perhaps you'd best to not read
Exeem seems like nothing good or new...it's just taking a bunch of old crap and remixing it. It almost seems like it would be better to use kazaa than this anyway simply because you can get kazaalite without adware (even if bittorrent is better for files)
Guess who's the anonymous donator. Get your own tracker and you have the most complete list of copyright violators.
But it won't work without a key. It can't join the network. Gives you a chance to check it out the interface spyware/adware free I guess. I don't think I'll be using it. I too was looking for a larger leap...not so much of a baby step.
http://82.149.22.18/eXeem%20BETA%200.16.zip
This is why things like Microsoft Virtual Machine was created (acquired). The other day my G/F was at my place getting some music off allofmp3.com when she couldnt find a song she wanted. She started to download Kazaa when I stopped her and fired up a Windows 2000 virtual machine for her to download in. I guess I dont mind if its got adware or spyware as long as I can sandbox it.
Im dreaming ofa big bndwdth, That can resist the
TV shows are my BitTorrent mainstay though; getting US shows outside the US is a nightmare; I thought the UK was bad, but while doing a little globe trotting at the moment I've found out I actually had it pretty good at home. By "pretty good" I mean that usually you can buy the DVDs of a show *before* the damn thing airs on terrestrial television which is, quite frankly, a ridiculous situation. I mean, who is going to watch a TV show, probably with adverts, if they already have an ad-free version of DVD? Plus, try as you might, if you like to watch shows without seeing any spoilers then grabbing the thing off BitTorrent is the only way to be sure.
Personally, I think a TV show/movie based version of something like iTunes would work; monthly subscription, per file billing or both doesn't matter. P2P has proven itself a viable distribution method for the media files, there's clearly an audience for data and it gives the MPAA the same "legal alternative" argument the RIAA likes to spout. It's not like they stand to lose much, unless they are worried that the DMCA won't stop a DRM removal tool from being released shortly after the launch...
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
I listened to the interview, and one thing came across stronger than anything else:
He sold out.
And I bet the "mystery company" is Sharman Networks.
Bastard.
Anyway, you can download it here, though it doesn't seem to work without the key.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
Since Napster, Kazaa, and now Bittorrent, is the P2P universe is starting to gain the same sort of over-hyping that poorly made but well-marketed Hollywood films already have?
It's amazing that companies will pay to place ads in the middle of P2P programs, is there anybody on Slashdot who would
a) use Adware P2P programs
b) actually follow an ad link from one ?
Let's hope Exeem doesn't follow the pattern set by Kazaa MD with it's over obtrusive Gator...
I pause the VCR/DVDR during commercials. Does that make me a thief?
Too bad.. Once it enters my house its mine..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I honestly don't think this [the exeem client] is totally necessary, depending on the outcome of the Lokitorrent legal case. Exeem seems as if it will make .torrent files much harder to find, which in turn creates problems. The http section of the web is a lot easier to navigate than an adware-filled, bulky client.
.torrent files, they are so easily tracked by anyone who cares! If Exeem could possibly get a better degree of anonymity, then it could perhaps boost p2p to an unbeatable level- forcing the MPAA and RIAA to actually work with the file sharers, rather than attack them.
Of course, even if it is legal for sites on the web to host the
Lastly, and on a bit of an off-topic note, if one is sharing only one part of a file, but not the full thing (or if the file being shares is obfuscated, but easily returnable), can they be prosecuted of illegal copyright violations? Is every single part of a film copyrighted individually? I've always wondered, so pegging it to the end of this post seemed as good a time as any to ask.
- dshaw
If I wanted Kazaa (clone), I'd ask for it. :(
.
.
.
.
I ain't askin' for it.
.
.
.
I want suprnova back.
Inject.
The concept of timeshifting IS legal. Ever hear of the BetaMax case?
The only question is the method that is being used. Which i ( and MANY others ) happen to disagree with your statement.
Until it goes to court however, neither side can claim they are 'correct'...
And as a side note, if you are too stupid to realize downloading what you can legally record is NOT piracy, then you have some serious mental issues.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
So the suprnova's of the world are being corporatized by "secret companies." The question comes down to, will it work? Does anybody care about napster.com since it was corporatized?
Magnet support? Then it's just hash-based, then. eDonkey and Gnutella have been doing this for years.
eDonkey uses a splitfile with MD4
Gnutella uses SHA1
The problem with Supernova was twofold. First, the bandwidth needed for trackers and torrents was high. Second, the linking to the torrents or the torrents themselves was a potential liability. Gnutella and eDonkey solve the former problem, but the linking liability problem will always remain. There has to be some point of entry, and there is where the technophobes will try to attack.
Nothing to see here, move along.
http://pixelcort.com/
if you are too stupid to realize downloading what you can legally record is NOT piracy, then you have some serious mental issues.
Tell Judge Jed Rakoff, the judge in the My.MP3.com case, that he has "some serious mental issues".
There are some things I think would be interesting additions, such as sharing a the rarest part to users with the quickest turnaround time (determine how long it takes to download the file and then immediately upload it, and choose the person with the shortest time).
In some BitTorrent clients, when the only seed in a swarm sees that a given file is poorly distributed, the seed will use a "superseeding" strategy similar to what you described to allocate where to send pieces.
What about MUTE?
http://mute-net.sourceforge.net/
Thank you for generalizing that everyone with an opposing viewpoint from you is some type of spoiled rich kid. Actually, I have met quite a few people who are in favor of changes to "intellectual property", from liberals who have spent years helping with poverty-stricken families in third-world countries and have little sympathy for CEO's who don't make another million, to archconservatives including my father.
Which one I am, if either, is not really relevant to our discussion here. I do not understand the concept of "intellectual property". Want to "own" an idea? Keep it in your head with your mouth shut, and if you write it down or otherwise record it anywhere, make sure that it's somewhere no one will ever find it.
An idea, spoken in public, is public property. Period. Doesn't matter if the "idea" is a song, a computer program, a movie, or anything else.
Awwwwww, big corporation can't make money? Too bad. No one has a "right" to the continued success of their business model. They have the right to adapt and find a way to provide what the consumer wants, the way they want it, and make money, or die. Copyrights and patents create artificial scarcity and give "ownership" and exclusive rights to the first person to come up with something which cannot be owned-an idea.
But it'll stifle innovation? Biggest load I've heard. Those who have great ideas and are passionate about them need no reward. Socrates was KILLED for putting forth his thoughts, but even facing that he would not back down. And we suggest massive amounts of money are necessary to encourage this? It never was before.
Of course, there are those who can consistently do a great job at coming up with and putting into practice great ideas. They'll make a living. (No, I didn't say "killing").
All "copyright" creates is a massive media monopoly capable of controlling the distribution of 98% or so of creative work. The "little guy" doesn't even get heard amidst their marketing noise.
No one has a right to make massive amounts of money for the REST OF THEIR LIFE plus 75 years because they do a good job one time, or even several times. Most of us must go to work, every day, and do our job well each and every time. I don't get to say "Well you know what, boss? I've done a damn good job, and this company will benefit from that work for quite a while, so you owe me royalties for the rest of my life while I do no more work." If an artist/programmer/filmmaker/whatever is out of ideas and can't do his job anymore, it's not time for him to retire and profit at 31, it's time for him to find another job.
As for the **AA's, they are as animals whose ecosystem has been radically changed. They can either a. Act like nothing has changed, and face extinction, or b. Adapt. Right now, they're thinking they'll roll back the clock, and that does not constitute option c. or any other.
Collective license would solve this whole problem. If the "IP Industries" are unwilling to embrace this model, they have chosen option a., and I won't mourn their passing.
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
A big me too on timeshifting.
Do I rush to get home and catch my favorite show? Nah, no need. I can obey the speed limits, arrive late, download the episode, and then watch it.
I would gladly pay a reasonable monthly fee to have DRM-free legal downloads of TV episodes that have aired during the previous two weeks. Just charge me what they charge me for cable TV so I can drop that, and pass a percentage of the fee back to the network which would have aired it in my area in lieu of ad revenue (which is wasted on me anyway).
I want my Cowboyneal
You want a competitor for Exeem on SourceForge? Here's your competitor.
Alright then, I do understand. However please try to keep posts on topic in future. We want the signal to noise ratio high.
Unfortunately, I've already posted in this article and hence can't use my last mod point here. But yes, had I the chance, I would most definitely mod this post -1, Flamebait. Let's examine as to why, shall we?
I also never had to work for anything in my life, and my parents bought my car for me growing up, so it's only natural I have the same sense of whiny entitlement the other bitter freeloaders have.
As you can see, the parent said Slashdot consists of bitter freeloaders (not to mention thieves, above), thus inviting flame replies (which generally don't come, as most people won't feed obvious trolls such as this). This post is thus Flamebait and should be moderated as such.
If you have nothing else to do than insult Slashdot users and admins and call us names, please leave. You're unwelcome.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
I used to use Opera. I find their adbar a very tolerable way to to deliver a an ad supported application. It is still on my system, but I use firefox now.
I also made the mistake of installing DivX codec on my system and finding myself gain/gatored....
Ugh! Even after uninstalling divx it still wouldn't uninstall. I had to install several spyware cleaners, delete the stuff manually, it seems like there were several cycles of this before I was running clean again.
Ick. So why use evil crap like gain when they could do something decent like what Opera does?
I won't touch any program with Gain in it, and I assume any ad supported program is Gain and avoid it, until proven otherwise.
Well look at that, I can get called immature by someone who thinks a one-line namecalling constitutes a rebuttal. Who's the kid, friend? :)
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
eXeem does not use anything related to BitTorrent. They don't use the protocol or .torrents or anything. It's a p2p program created to get around using trackers. Which sounds a lot like eDonkey (or Mule or Overnet), Kazaa, or any other existing p2p program.
Good job, they invented the wheel.
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
Personally, I think people should stop worrying so much about whether they'll get modded up or down for a comment, and just say what they really believe. A little honesty would go a long way around here, and perhaps we wouldn't get so many off-topic discussions about modding during otherwise interesting and lively debates.
It is such a shame to waste time wondering what other people think of us, when the only thing that really matters is what we think of ourselves.
Insane people are always sure they are fine. It is only the sane people who are willing to admit that they are crazy.
Can I say Kazaa reborn? If it follows the BT protocol, it will always play catch up with leading clients like Azureus and the official client, even without the spyware. And as others have said, it doesn't solve the fake files issue with decentralized P2P networks. You need centralized authority like hash links sites, so you are back to square one. What we need is to prove the legitimacy of BitTorrent as a distribution mechanism, without hiding behind decentralization.
;)
I know, I'm advertising my site again. See sig. It takes the pain out of googling torrents, with much more features I won't go into details here. Enjoy
VIVA1023.com | Political Fashion.
eXeem is a piece of shit. Not only that it will have adaware and spyware, it is also a "lock-in". You will only be able to use it on SuprNova. They have modified the torrent file. It is missing a lot of dictionaries ("key -> value"), and dictionaries that should have been subdictionaries start directly in the file. For example "files" is not in "info" it starts with it directly. This torrent changes were unnecessary. Also, the "announce" and "announce-list" are missing. eXeem has a hardcoded url of a tracker of all the peers on eXeem. The original seeder of a torrent acts as a tracker (so SuprNova won't have to host torrents), but eXeem is in no way decentralized because of the tracker that keeps in contact all the eXeem users (it does not care about torrents, just eXeem users). So, all you have to do is to kill the main server, and all the users of exeem will be disconnected (this happened when suprnova died). THIS IS WORSE THAN THE WAY TORRENTS ACT NOW. EXEEM IS HYPE AND A WAY TO MAKE MONEY. IT SUCKS! I think the best way to decentralized BitTorrent, is to have trackers that are decentralized IRC server style. If you people want something decentralized and a little bit of BitTorrent, get G2 (Gnutella2) and add BitTorrent's tit-for-tat to it.
Slashdot has a "+1 Funny" moderation for a reason. Don't be a prick.
When in doubt, parenthesize. At the very least it will let some poor schmuck bounce on the % key in vi. (Larry Wall)
... is create a SuprNova styled website filled with completely legal torrents. For example, drivers, game demos and updates, Linux and other open source distributions, public domain stuff, share/freeware, etc. We have to let politicians know that p2p has practical legal uses.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
I applaud you, sir. That was the most insightful post about this issue that Ive seen here on /.
Too bad I don' have mod points...
So, the "mighty" owner of suprnova closed his website.
Very nice.
He advocates this new technology.
Who said the MPAA/RIAA did not stuff him some "funds" to provide the people some nice software
(ie: adware) that cleanly informs those nice
associations with the ip address of every peer/seeder. Think about it.
who did say the new software does not harvest ip
addresses and nicely hands em over to some place
accessible to the MPAA/RIAA ?
I do not know about you, but I am convinced some
donated funds from MPAA/RIAA could change the mind
of any site owner to join the " side"
just 0.02 euro
Well, only when it happens. Its not actually happened yet, and I can't remember the last time something like what you described happened.
Maybe my memory is fauly, or your argument. I don't know which.
And as a side note, if you are too stupid to realize downloading what you can legally record is NOT piracy, then you have some serious mental issues.
But you can record music off of the radio. Does that make downloading music legal as well?
Just playing devil's advocate.
The world needs more people thinking like you. :)
Of course it comes from someone agreeing.
le' giv' em' a go' ool' slashdotting:
http://www.justcallmegod.com/Sloncek/301204%20-%20 Sloncek%20Interview%20www.novastream.org.mp3
I don't claim I know more than I know, and if you know you know more than I know, then by all means, let me know.
You sound like you're trying to shape some kind of community out of this mess. That's something that was considered by many of the people with user id's an order of magnitude lower than yours and mine. It's really only gotten worse since I've come, I suggest you not worry about shaping this community, go with the flow, and take from it what you can get. If you're looking for communities that can still be saved, try something with less than tens of millions of members, maybe theworldforum.
Just some friendly advice.
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
While obviously most people were disappointed about exeem, there is already a cross-platform, decentralized, anonymous, encrypted, bittorrent-like p2p-appilcation knows as ANts.
It's still in a pretty early phase, so it hasn't reached the critical amount of users p2p applications need to survive. Still, I have high hopes for it
It seems the files shared by BT are mostly static ones, not easily updatable. However, we can still store some snapshot index. Or modify BT protocol to allow easy modification of shared files including the seeds index.
"Second, Exeem is pretty much what was rumored earlier: a blending of the tracker, the BitTorrent client, and decentralized indexing"
I wonder where this information came from... from what I hear (the announcement itself) I thought that eXeem is more similar to KaZaA (sloncek seems to repeat that eXeem is similar to KaZaA, except with the BT file transfer protocol, which I don't think really matters... maybe I need to listen to the announcement again? O.o) in that there is no "tracker"; each peer for any particular file is found one by one, instead of together from an announce (like what BT does). But that is just my guess.
Secondly, I spent some time thinking about how it is possible to, in the case that each client is indeed a tracker in the stricter sense of the word, 1. find the tracker that tracks a particular file/torrent, and 2. make it so that all the trackers that track a particular file/torrent will have all the peers on that particular file/torrent. Even if the second is curable, it means massive bandwidth used for every announce a peer makes... Just some thoughts.
I agree. It's all on Usenet.
And then you just setup WASTE to transfer with your known buddies.
You know, BitTorrent isn't all that bad when used with extensions like BlogTorrent. For instance, a couple of days ago I used BlogTorrent to host a compilation of Tsunami footage and media on my blog. All of the usual mirrors wilted under the load but my torrent just kept humming along.
I put a big fat link up that says "Don't have BitTorrent? Click HERE" That's about as simple as it gets. In two days my humble blog has distributed upwards of 3 Terabytes of data. Most of it from first time BitTorrent users. Having a distributed tracker is really only important if you're trading illegal files unless of course you have a flakey tracker. Maybe we just need legitimate sources of content before BitTorrent rears its head.
What if Digg added local news and a Slashdot inspired comment karma system? ---
http://houndwire.com
You know, I posted a review of the exeeem beta (along with screenshots) about 2 weeks but it was rejected. Hopefully this post will make it through.
p ?Board=web_news&Number=43166
http://www.mitosis.com/sections/forum/showflat.ph
- Simon
P.S. No registration required.
If you have expectation of download such items, then you should not be using the network. I cannot be sympatehetic even if you deleted immediately. Your ignorance promotes such usage.
Ideas flow From Other Ideas. :"
Nothing is Truly New.
Popper States that the Scientific Method is one of revoking and revising previous ideas.
That is how Progress is Made in All Disciplines.
Science, Programming, Art.
Feudalising Ideas by making Ideas Property, ring fences them with law - ideas stemming from that idea now are illegal to have, or cost to implement by paying a liscense fee for that technology.
If the Property Rights assigned to Ideas takes a long time to ( or never ) expires then you have a pyramid of taxes paid to Rights Holders to use that technology.
It exists today, a portion of the cost of many commodities is patent liscencing fees.
It slows the development of soft technologies as well: look at how GIF stalled the InterWeb, how proprietry formats stop the Interoperability and Interconnectedness of the Internet or even just information flowing from one office to another. Until recently everyone pretty much had to ( to stay within the law ) pay a tax for the right to Operate their Hardware - many people still choose to.
But patents expire Copright expires less now than it did and this means that whole areas of the Hilbert Space of Ideas are cut off legally until the Intellectual Property Revokes to the Public Domain.
This is why Universities are Publically Funded so they Discover and Publish Things making them Forever Public Domain.
The Science of Culture, that Dark Art of Creative Endevour must be freed from Feudalism. We Must be allowed to have certain ideas, deal with our local cultural environment as we feel we need to.
We need to Be able To Mash up Music, Sample it, Modify The Mona Lisa, Write Fan Fiction, Draw Cartoons containing Mickey Mouse do what we want.
And Tech. is an Art according to Steve Jobs, he made his hackers sign the Original Apple Mac Case Die Press.
Access to Information and the Ability to Use it and Create Derivative Works is a necesssary Human Right if we want to make progress.
Information is a lot more valuable than mere money.
"Copyright was mean to encourage artists to release into the public domain, that is why we gave up some rights to copy. That no longer applies."
"People who risk Federal Jail to let others have access to stuff for free are heroes."
Bring on the Free Market - End Information Ring Fencing, destroy the economy of scarcity gravy training Feudal Overlords.
Mash it Up Big Time.
Creative Commons W00t"
To Quote RMS http://www.gnu.org/gnu/manifesto.html
If anything deserves a reward, it is social contribution. Creativity can be a social contribution, but only in so far as society is free to use the results. If programmers deserve to be rewarded for creating innovative programs, by the same token they deserve to be punished if they restrict the use of these programs.
"
- Anonymous COward & Proud of It.
Any protocol that allows "show me what you're sharing" type command or maps content to IP addresses is inherently vulnerable to these 3rd party organizations that are being hired by the MPAA. It's a trival matter for them to fire off violation notices to ISPs at high volumes.
Thus, I would suggest:
An offshore site that allows users to remotely (over SSL or MSTSC) use P2P apps to download to local disks, and then permits transfer via SSL to their local machines.
A virus/worm that pretends to be popular P2P apps and appears to be sharing copyrighted material. Result: almost everyone in the US appears to be sharing, overloading the people monitoring such things.
People familiar with the law need to see what the loopholes are (e.g. IANAL, but I have heard that sharing less than an entire "piece" is legally different than sharing the whole thing...don't know if this is true, just an example). Result: we use the law against the same people who are using it against us.
I don't want to come off as an evil pirate here. I simply feel that:
Intellectual property needs a serious reworking.
When you don't offer your customers what they want (e.g. on-demand without-commercials video), and what they want is technologically achievable, the customers will use the technology, even if it happens to be illegal.
I pay $150 for cable + internet + HDTV channels. I would gladly pay the same for a single channel of on-demand video, and more for the same without any commercials.
That was the best comment I've seen on Slashdot all day. Welcome to my friends list.
I support the Center for Consumer Freedom
The point of freenet is neither to be a haven for kiddie pr0n or a place free of any pr0n. The point of freenet is to be a place where no information can be censored ever by higher authorities.
The point is, the decision of what should be censored cannot be decided simply and logically by technology. In fact, there is no way for censorship to ever be fair as long as it is possible to have unfair censors.
In the words of Neal Stephenson, "I want them to remain secret for as long as man is capable of evil."
So, if we want any kind of freedom of speech, we need freenet as long as man is capable of evil.
If only it wasn't slow as hell.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
But it'll stifle innovation? Biggest load I've heard. Those who have great ideas and are passionate about them need no reward.
At least here in the US, we were founded on exactly the opposite idea. You are right, many great thinkers did not ask for any reward. But the vast majority know that there's something in it for them to come up with a great idea. The "right", if you will, to be compensated for one's hard work and critical thinking inspires many minds to excel when they would otherwise flounder. Modern business, which churns out impressive innovations at a remarkable rate, would not be viable without a compensation system. Even in academia there are (non-monetary) compensation systems, such as noteriaty, which I suspect is important to a lot of researchers. The desire to be rewarded for hard work is innate and perfectly natural. (Think of the caveman who figures out how to set a trap, so he can catch animals more safely - he's certainly not obliged to walk to the next cave and share his insights.)
Although I agree with you that copyright terms are horrendously long, and that regulations on media empires are laughably flimsy, being able to own an idea is still essential to our economy. Consider the alternative - a world where all you can own are widgets, and your wealth is measured by how much material stuff you have. Doesn't sound like fun to me.
Plus, no one would have ever heard of the GPL.
I must agree with you in spirit, but I must also tell you that you are, at least in some respects, quite wrong.
The purpose of copyright is in no way to create false scarcity. You are missing an extremely (and I mean that truly) important distinction. It is a distinction that most people don't understand, and like to scoff at because they think they know how things work. It's the difference between what copyright was designed to achieve versus the mechanisms people have devised to abuse that original goal to serve their own ends.
Money is in fact a good motivation for innovation. The U.S. is a good example of the power of "opportunity". People believe money can be made here, and it can, based on innovation. A huge percentage of the major innovations in the last century were made by innovators motivated by money in the U.S. (mainly immigrants from other countries). This is a good thing, though your post would make it seem like it is bad.
But you make a very good point: copyright as we know it has been twisted and bastardized into something that just makes the rich richer, and the money they make is often at the expense of the public and the true innovators. This was never the intention of copyright. Read what the U.S. congress had to say about copyright in 1907, or what the judge said about copyright in the 80's in the Sony/Betamax case. Folks that make a living understanding the law recognize that not all business is bad, and that not all law is bad.
Copyright is being abused. But the idea of copyright is a good one: incentivize those that innovate to *continue* innovating. Don't pay them so much that they don't have to work anymore; pay them enough to sustain them while they continue their work, which ultimatly will benefit the public as a whole, often for generations to come.
But some big business has abused this system, and the question is: what are we going to do about it? It's too bad that people are so fed up with the status quo that they believe that copyright is evil and the answer lies solely in a system based around have our biggest innovators work for no money. I believe it does not - I believe it lies in bringing honesty and refinement to a broken system built around a essentially important and *good* idea.
So while I agree with your sentiment, don't drag down copyright because some corporations (and corporate alliances) abuse it to hurt others and ruin lives for their own gain. We must recognize them for what they are, but also recognize that there was a certain measure of insight and wisdom in the original ideal that copyright represents, and seek to find ways to restore that ideal in practice.
The successor to Bittorrent is.... Bittorrent. Killing Suprnova is the *best* thing that ever happened. That is exactly the form of decentralization that was necessary. Forget Exeem, or whatever it's called. Just continue to move to the hottest bittorrent site that has your file until it's shut down and them move to the next. Do people actually think the long arm of the U.S. law is that long??? I can't follow the bouncing ball around the world continuously with success. Stay with bittorrent, forget that new P2P and just move to the next Bittorrent site.
He was insinuating that we were spoiled through his use of sarcasm, and without a valid argument as to why he was not doing what I suggested earlier, your post holds no weight.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
MUTE is a program I've enjoyed supporting directly. .4 was just released this week and has several improvements.
While it may not be as secure as Freenet, it does take advantage of IP obfustication and is a fair bit faster. No one user knows what machine is connected to what data. With enough users, it would virtually be impossible to determine data origin.
The author of the program continues to make progress as the funds continue to roll in - fair enough.
Give it a try at: mute-net.sf.net and think about supporting the ongoing project. It certainly seems to have more plusses than Exeem!
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
An idea, spoken in public, is public property. Period. Doesn't matter if the "idea" is a song, a computer program, a movie, or anything else. Are you engaged in the production of one of these ideas? Because simply saying that "passionate people" will fill the production of ideas.. well, some ideas are harder to make than others. Movies with high production values cost millions to make. Games and programs do too. It's all well and good to say that they should be free, but I don't know any companies that are willing to risk millions in production if their competitors can legitimately sell the same thing on zero-day. I know a lot of individuals who would, granted.. but I don't know any individuals capable of "The Incredibles."
For thousands of years, the patronage system solved this problem. You think a company was founded to make Don Giovanni, expecting to use intellectual property rights to recoup their investment? No, someone commisioned it.
The same could happen today with theatre, opera, symphony, and yes, even movies.
Movies might be the hardest, and they might need to be more of a hybrid system like the current music model, where public performance is the main source of income for artists. If movie theatres didn't have to pay the lion's share of their ticket prices for royalties, they could afford to commission works, and recoup their investment by charging for something you can't d/l from kazaa -- the experience of seeing it in a theatre.
-Esme
When you are serving software and media to the world of people who download these things, then you introduce them to an app that will - no, NEEDS - to be reverse-engineered. Just like Kazaa Lite did to Kazaa!
Like it's so hard to pump out individual lawsuits using any of the currently available p2p programs. The more hype P2P gets, the more fuss is made. It's not like I can't jump on IRC and download stuff. When was the last time IRC was shut down?
interesting...
Doesn't stop your side from engaging in the same behaviour
That was not my post, nor one even of someone I know. Certainly I can show you plenty of examples of your "side" flaming, generalizing, stereotyping, and engaging in all sorts of bad behavior, but that does not reflect on you personally.
If that's what IP was, you'd have a point. However it's not. "Expressions of an idea" are considered IP.
I am well aware that they -are- considered so, and am advocating changing that. Can you tell me why you think it should -not- be changed?
In your personal opinion.
Of course, in my personal opinion, and that of many others. Now if you disagree with that opinion, can you tell me why?
Neither does one have a right to be entertained. Let alone other people's "expressions of an idea".
Actually, if you choose to express an idea publicly, those who hear it DO have the right to expand, improve, and build upon it, and find new and better ways of implementing it. Giving one person sole control over that just because they thought of it first is counterproductive.
As to a "right to be entertained", no, no one has a right to hold a gun to someone's head and demand that that person entertain them. However, if someone chooses to be an entertainer and release their works to the public, I have the right to see and hear them.
This assumes that the consumer is a fair and just assesser of value. Also businesses don't have to be formed to serve a capricious and spiteful public.
Again, no, no one has to. But if it is true (and it often can be) that the public is "capricious and spitefuL", then those who CHOOSE to go into business, despite not HAVING to, go in well knowing that and had better plan around it. They'd also better face up to the fact that the consumer is not interested in a "just assessment of value", they're interested in the best product at the cheapest price. Again, anyone who goes into business without figuring on that should not be going into business at all.
Incorrect. They create an artificial scarcity of the "expression of an idea". You're more than free to take an idea, and come up with your own unique "expression" of that idea.
Actually, you are incorrect. I am NOT free to take that idea and improve upon it or come up with a unique expression of it, copyright prohibits derivative works. This is enforced to the point that sampling a few notes out of another song is considered a "derivative work", at which time it's treated just the same as an exact copy.
Innovation is hard to substain in the face of poverty. Many artists have either starved, unknown and forgotten. Their contributions lost to time. Or found patrons who served a similiar role to our modern day content creators. Many simply had their ideas profitted from, after their paupers deaths.
Most artists -still- live in poverty, what world have YOU been living in? "IP" hasn't changed that one bit. Sure, they can sign up with a major label/publishing house/etc., and then said corporation owns the rights to the creator's work, not the creator themself. This is a travesty. I don't believe in -anyone- having the exclusive rights, but if someone is going to, it should be the artist, and any contract should be legally limited to paying a promotional company for services rendered while retaining full rights.
Well there goes the "Internet as a new business model. Adapt or die" argument.
Not at all, several independent Internet distributors are already starting up. However, without mandatory licensing, the **AA's are free to license only those who will do exactly as they are told, and disallow any business model which threatens the status quo. Of course, those who go with totally independent works are free from this, but also will have a very difficult time competing on the major companies' scale.
IP doesn't guarentee profit. IP guarentees that you can exercise certain
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
As the MPAA and RIAA and various other groups kick up the fight against piracy, decentralization will do no good to the individual user, because now the responsibility falls SOLELY on that user, and not the provider of content, like a tracker or a P2P server. This means that users are easier targets because now there is no one else to blame.
Collective licensing, still and yet, solves all the problems you bring up. In fact, it somewhat -reduces- the element of risk involved and might allow for a broader range of art to be tried, instead of the current "mass-market" crap currently fed people by the major conglomerates.
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
and he post as an AC. troll.
Being a part of a system and being anonymous does not help the system to evolve.
there is a difference between not asking for rewards and letting people know what information come from where/who.
This story suggests, as I have read before, that the big advantage of Suprnova was it's verification system to assure against pollution.
;-)
This advantage is also its achilles heel because it makes them vulnerable to attack.
I think it might be possible to use PGP-like technology to create an anonymous rating system. In such a system uploads would be digitally signed by one or more secret keys that vouch for its integrity.
The P2P software would be able to assess the reliability of the signer by checking his 'credibilty'. If you have downloaded something of value from him before or one of your other P2P friends has the torrent gets a high reliability value, otherwise it's more or less a gamble. If the download is good you automatically sign it with your own secret key as well.
Because of the signing system 'verifiers' could remain totally anonymous. Just made sure you burn your secret key when they start breaking down your door
y0 when u come to think about it, I dont know it could be a whole hoaX you know what I am saying... When you really look at it woodn't this program kind of take the eye off of the company but now put the eye on us????
I actually use a bittorrent like protocol to deal with game updates. So it's not like I have anything against P2P protocols. The concept of a peer-to-peer is of course perfectly legitimate. Sites like suprnova are quite obviously, not legitimate. Bothering to report on the day to day activies of obvious violators just pushes my buttons.
Apparently I just got a bunch of ignorant replies that assumed all the wrong things about my post. Way to go slashdot.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
"But now take the cost of a high speed internet connection ($30/mo. for cable modems around here), "
Wow. That's cheap. Where are you? Here in the SF Bay Area, Comcast tells me that I can pay $42 if I'm a cable subscriber (I'm not) or $63 + $3/mo for the modem if I'm not. That's $66/mo + taxes for a cable modem.
DSL is not available at my apartment complex. There are no other cable modem providers.
Broadband is getting more and more expensive these days.
If the government funds all movies, music, and entertainment.. isn't that the start of a pretty effective propaganda machine?
What are you talking about. So it's ok to blame the tracker or P2P server? So it's ok that the tracker and P2P server are sued? I run a tracker ring and I find that kind of thinking the most insulting. Most trackers are up just because the host wanted to share... and you take advantage of that fact and rejoice in that the tracker host is getting his ass sued off and you are in your home warm and cosy?
* * *
Decentralization basically spreads out the pressure on all nodes in the network, just like how deer always travel in packs, so that it is harder for the lions to select a specific target. And even if a deer is killed by the lion the pack still survives. That's decentralization.
Didn't DirecTV do this about 4 years ago? If I remember right, they basically convinced the top guys to teach them how to "break" the current hacking methods, leading to what is know known as "Black Sunday", due to everyone's H Cards getting toasted during the main event of a WWF Pay Per View. I can't remember if it was money, get out of jail free cards, or both, but what you are suggesting HAS happened before.
So who will make movies that cost millions of dollars if as soon as they're produced they become free?
A quick WHOIS gives us the adress of the registrant for the Exeem.com domain: Swarm Systems Inc. Goggle couldn't find anything interresting about it. Might be some kind of a screening company?
Just assign a +3 (or more) reason modifier to "Troll", seek somewhere in your preferences...
"The day Microsoft makes a product that doesn't suck is the day they make a vacuum cleaner."
Tracker web sites that index new torrents published recently. You do not search for files, but see what is available. A big difference to the usual P2P networks, and perhaps the reason why BT is so popular and works so well.
Fast downloads because of swarming
Bittorrent's problems:
Centralized torrent indexes (suprnova etc)
Centralized tracker. There has to be a network address in the torrent file that leads to the guilty sharing individual.
Gnutella's benefits:
Decentralization
Gnutella's problems:
Slow searching
Excessive traffic due to searching "xxx porn" a million times
Slow downloads, no swarming
Trust issues?
Solution (?):
A distributed gnutella-type network, where torrents are shared instead of files. But not regular BT type torrents. Instead the tracker would not be fixed, and any node in the network could become the new tracker dynamically when the old tracker leaves. This would be possible because of the way the information about new torrents is distributed.
When a torrent is published to the network, the original seeder becomes the tracker. When leechers have 100% downloads and become seeders, they can become trackers too. The tracker can then be changed if the original seeder leaves the network. Otherwise the process would work just
like bittorrent does.
Instead of searching for torrents in the big network, the torrents would "advertise" themselves. This advertisement package would contain the following information:
Current tracker's address & port
Normal information that a .torrent file has, contents, blocks and checksum data etc.
Amount of seeders & leechers
These packages would be sent out to everybody at least when some of the following happens:
The torrent is initially published
A new user joins the torrent, and starts leeching
The tracker changes
No searching means less traffic. You would instead of searching just look at the advertisements, and information of active torrents would come very quickly when you join the network. This would be like looking at suprnova.org to see what's new.
This kind of network would have all the benefits of BT & gnutella and get rid of both's problems.
Ive read some bullshit on here in the past but:
Those who have great ideas and are passionate about them need no reward.
Ok fine. tell that to the families of everyone who works at valve, because a dipshit attitude like yours is what encourages people to steal half life 2 and put that company out of business. I guess youd like that?
and dont talk a load of shit about big companies, as if pirates give a fuck about the profitability of a company before they steal it. I guess you clinked champagne glasses the day you found out that looking glass software went under, something that was partly blamed on widespread piracy of their hard work.
Carry on mouthing of this pseudo-communist bullshit if it makes you feel good, but dont kid yourself that you are doing anything other than royally screwing everyone who makes the content that people like you leech.
DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
The same thing could be done on a system running from a HD. Of course you have to pay attention to swap and temporary files, but it is not anymore difficult to do from a HD than from a CD. And the HD version is going to be faster than the CD version. But I guess Knoppix already supports this.
What would be even more interesting is the possibility to run untrackable stuff like that in parallel with a system that does fully use HD. Of course specifying who is allowed to use swap is the tricky part. Temporary files could be taken care of just by running the stuff in a chroot with no disk based file system mounted read-write.
Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
my friend got a hold of it.
here
i agree it basically sucks, but it's worth a look.
Revenue collection and distribution could be handled through a private organization, much like ASCAP works now. The government would not necessarily have to be involved except in the tax-based scheme, and even then would likely turn distribution to a private organization.
It is agreed, that if government was in control of the collection and distribution both, that would not be a setup I would like to see either, but the concept does not dictate that.
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
And once again, collective license solves the entire problem, ensuring revenue to the creators of content (provided, of course, that someone wants it, but even under the current model you get no money if no one wants your stuff), and, at the same time, changing from the pay-per-each model of distribution to a flat-fee and distribution system. This system already works fine for radio and TV, and, on a larger scale, could support larger-scale projects.
And once again, if Valve or any other company sticks to a business model which is no longer viable, they WILL go under. Adapt to change or die off from it is really not a terribly tough concept.
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
Supposing exeem isn't the evil it's being described as here, and does the job of suprnova.org. Doesn't this still mean that somewhere, a load of .torrents files have to be hosted somewhere (web server,irc,ftp),and all of which rely on a tracker. Or has exeem got a mysterious way of broadcasting these torrent files around its network? If that's true, I'm still lost as to how you know who is on the network...you still need a centralised point, surely?
Which means the exeem server or the trackers still get stung by the authorities, if this is infact the point of the program - to avoid detection. I can't see a way of it ever being anonymous. Without meaning to point out the obvious, the authorities can always track your IP address on any p2p software, so why bother hiding it. And even if you build in the anonymous IP feature into the protocol or client, there is always 'netstat' to view the connections.
Nothing costs nothing
I do however fear that a p2p usenet would suffer an even worse S/N ratio than normal usenet and I reckon a trust system would be useful. I also reckon a modified nntp protocol would be needed. If only I had the time.
-he who laughs last, is a bit slow.
journal
For example, there is padding and encryption of all data, but the impact of this is minimised because the data is split up such to minimise the need for padding, and the encryption is childs-play for a modern CPU.
Further, Freenet does some pretty clever stuff with caching and minimising inter-node latency that is still, in many ways, way ahead of any other P2P applications (see this article for more info on that).
It's one of the very few real black and white issues, folks.
You agree with censorship or you don't.
Why not just use usenet to distribute the Torrent trackers? On usenet one can post anonymously, and they are automatically distributed to other usenet servers.
Overall a good post, but not really truthfull or realistic.
:)
No offence, but no company is going to spend oddles and oddles of money into, for example, developing new medication if their product is emediatly stolen and their research can't be earned back. And that is just one example.
I agree things are a bit out of control the otherway now. But what your suggesting would halt all major innovation. You can't compare Socrates to studies that cost more money then you can ever imagine.
Obviously when it comes to music and movies it's a bit different. But still a lot of money gets spend making it in some cases. Next to this I also believe those who make the money, distribute it, market it, etc. should be allowed to make a living of it. Not be forced into poverty or just not do it at all due to that.
It's about ballence. Things needs to change because the record companies and movie industries are totally out of control. But just going 100% the opposite way also doesn't work.
ah well, it of course always remains more fun to trow one-sided argument at one and other. Carry on
I don't know if people are already doing this (haven't checked eMule), but I think hosting the torrent files on eMule would work quite well.
More people sharing a torrent file would mean that the file is valid. You can attach reviews and comments to the torrent file.
You still need a BT tracker though.
skype's voip application leads the way in simplicity for users: after registering at a central location to obtain a list of jump-points (100 random known IP addresses) you're pretty much on your own.
then, other people's computers are used to route incoming calls _back_ down your outgoing connection if you don't know how to configure your NAT or firewall.
i believe that it is a small step to creating a firewall-busting totally distributed VPN (that could then be firewalled itself on the VPN interface).
on top of THAT, you could run your own alternate DNS service - one that is distributed, moves about, is anonymous and untrackable (well, by businesses and lawyers, anyway).
fuckem. fuckemall. if people feel the need to steal, that's their problem. if they believe that what they are stealing is justifiably stealable, that's up to them to deal with.
remember the burning of the id cards in south africa and in germany?
Thought those had been posted already...
Screenies
Life isn't a bitch. Life is a virgin. A bitch is easy.
I don't think removing corporate rights and restoring power to the actual people would be a bad thing. And I'd rather see propaganda representing the people, rather than corporate interests.
Clever signature text goes here.
1) Install the linkification extension.
2) Highlight the link (with or without spaces)
3) Rightclick and chose 'Open selected URL in new tab'
It's as easy as that - in Firefox. I don't know if the extension works in Mozilla.
Used it to send out their 800+ meg installer for their free 12 month trial. I remember some game demo sites using it too.
"...simply because distributors of such material feel safer in distributing it, means that more people will upload more. I think that counts as encouraging."
So, because they feel safer, the prog itself is 'encouraging' it, and can't be used? Proxies may feel more safe for them, encryption may make them feel more safe, heck, maybe the internet istelf! Should we not use any of those tools, then?
Come to think of it, digital camera's may make them feel more safe: no need to go to a photo-developer anymore! So the same argumentation is possible to say digital cameras and the like is 'encouraging' CP; yet, I think most would see the absurdity of it. It's as absurd to say Freenet 'encourages' it, however - unless you interpret 'encourage' in the broadest way, in which case you can forbid all tools, basically. I'm sure the RIAA will like a broad interpretation of 'encouraging', however, especially when INDUCE gets passed. Then they can sue every P2P application (and many others) in existence.
--- "To pee or not to pee, that is the question." ---
But just because the networks are "freely" distributing the product over the airwaves doesn't give someone else the right to distribute it, nor does it give you the right to download it from anyone that doesn't have distribution rights.
Wait a minute, I didn't say I wanted to forbid it! I just said I didn't want to use it.
And I think your analogy regarding digital cameras are lacking in the regard that if I buy a digital camera, I can decide if I want to photograph child porn with it or not. If I run a freenet node, I can't decide if I want it to host child pornography.
That makes a difference.
and until you get the system you want you are happy to rip off people like me working hard to make software.
nice attitude.
DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
Then you don't want to use any ISPs neither?
Because, you know, those ISPs are used by a lot of people abusing their services. And it's not like they 'decide' about that, neither.
--- "To pee or not to pee, that is the question." ---
Huh? How am I responsible for what other people do?
I don't want to use freenet, because then I could potentially, although unknowingly, be hosting child porn on my server. I find that ethically disturbing. And so does plenty of other people it seems.
If the ISP has ethical issues with transporting freenet data. They should make an effort to stop it.
Or do you really think that because the ISP takes my money, and the ISP ferries freenet trafic, then my small contribution to my ISP is in effect more or less a direct, though tiny, contribution towards keeping freenet running? And in turn I should have ethical issues with that?
I am not responsible for what other people do.
1) Not all countries can be affected by the MPAA/RIAA. 2) In almost all cases, it will be requested that the tracker be taken down first, or action will be sought after. So take the tracker down and throw it up somewhere else. 3) It wouldn't be impossible to run a tracker in anonymity, but the warez scene is so full of elitism and kids with low self esteem, that its no wonder people get caught.
"I don't want to use freenet, because then I could potentially, although unknowingly, be hosting child porn on my server. I find that ethically disturbing. And so does plenty of other people it seems."
I see. And do you feel like people *should* find it ethically disturbing to run a freenetnode? Do you think ISPs should be held responsable for what other people do with their services? Do you think they should feel morally/ethically responsable because some people abuse their services?
"Or do you really think that because the ISP takes my money, and the ISP ferries freenet trafic, then my small contribution to my ISP is in effect more or less a direct, though tiny, contribution towards keeping freenet running? And in turn I should have ethical issues with that?"
I find your reasoning compelling. Maybe you *should* have ethical issues with it, indeed? If you believe in guilt by proxy, then you should, logically speaking.
"I am not responsible for what other people do."
Exactly my point.
--- "To pee or not to pee, that is the question." ---
When you were downloading, did you look at the sources' queue positions at any time? If so, did you notice that you were often a thousand or so places behind? Some people on eMule have a lot of files shared, often obtained through other networks, so it's easier sometimes to find a rare file, but it's harder to get a popular file. It's a tradeoff that BitTorrent optimizes in favor of popular files rather than rare files.
I see. And do you feel like people *should* find it ethically disturbing to run a freenetnode? Do you think ISPs should be held responsable for what other people do with their services? Do you think they should feel morally/ethically responsable because some people abuse their services?
It's not a black and white issue. The way I weigh the arguments, I come out with the conclusion that running a freenet node is not something I want to do. But recognizing the complexity, I will say at the same time, it is not for me to decide what other people should do here. I don't have anything against freenet as such. It might be a tool that we will need later on when liberties have been more thoroughly stomped on. I don't think we have reached that point yet though.
So to repeat myself, seeing as I only just barely have an issue with this myself, I definitly feel that if other people feel differently about it, then that is their decision. And to answer your question. No I have absolutely no problem with whatever trafic my ISP carries.
Got to go to a new years party now. if you wan't we can continue this debate next year. :)
The line about the death of Hollywood is pure bullshit.
LOL
;-).
Ok...have to go to one myself, in a while.
It's not that I don't understand what you're saying and of course I feel anyone has the right to decide what he runs or not on their puter, I think all agree on that (exept MS
But I'm getting a bit pissed off by some that always use the same dead horse of "Freenet is a CP haven" (which it is not, as far as research has shown) and with how morally wrong it is, while that reasoning never seems to bother those posters when using an ISP or a hotspot or myriad of other tools. The morality issue is not intrinsically different then with other tools, it's just that the benefits versus the risks have to be determined. The risk is that of 'being' an ISP, and the benefit is that of promoting free speech.
If people make the conclusion it's not worth it, fine - see you when free speech will have become so suppressed even they get bothered by it, but it's not like Freenet involves totally new concepts (morally, I mean). A tool is a tool: it does not 'encourage' anything, and all tools can be abused, even when they are created for good purposes. Nothing new under the sun.
--- "To pee or not to pee, that is the question." ---
One guy mentioned that this was the best post he'd read all day. That doesn't quite do the author justice IMO. I've been reading /. the past 7 years or so, and without a doubt this is the best post I've ever read on it. Reading stuff like this gives me hope for our race.
i think that many people here are dancing around the heart of the issue.
ok, the problem is that we have two moral decisions which are apparently clashing.
1. child pr0n is WRONG
2. censorship is WRONG
normally these two ideas can float around in a person's head w/o them noticing that these morals may conflict with one another. as in the case of freenet. freenet is all about privacy and no censorship. that has apparently allowed much child pr0n to be distributed through its systems easily.
the internet itself has much child pr0n, or hate literature, etc. these things offend people. but, they still use the internet. that is because they are not taking any part in the seedier side of the internet.
HOWEVER, freenet does not allow you to choose what sort of data that will be stored/distributed by your computer.
let's put this into 3D. i believe in free speech. i know that neo-nazis can hand out literature, try to persuade people of their opinions, even gather peacefully. i can be morally outraged at what they are saying. i also have the right, by free speech, to speak as loudly as i wish against neo-nazis.
HOWEVER (and this is the big point here) i cannot be forced to participate in the dissemination of such untruthful and disgusting material as neo-nazi literature.
this logic doesn't work:
i do not distribute hate literature, therefore i believe in censorship.
censorship is about a governing/hierarchical body deciding what can be viewed by the general public. censorship is NOT about the personal liberty each individual has to choose what they are involved in.
in fact, what freenet has essentially done is become a dictatorial government that "for the sake of privacy" has forced its subjects (regular users of freenet) to distribute morally outrageous data.
i can just picture my local elected official coming to my house with a stack of child pr0n and saying, "our country does not believe in censorship - now go pass this child pr0n to people. if you refuse, then you are an evil believer in censorship!"
alright, that's my two cents. enjoy.
I use mlnet, a client for Overnet/EDonkey and have switched of browsing of files. So basically there is no way of looking into my system from outside.
This system is inherently much more secure than Bittorrent. You have no central site holding problematic torrents, local browsing is a switchable option, it only takes a small md4-Checksum to locate a file, names actually don't matter. Making Bittorent more secure and distributed would just mean making Bittorrent another edonkey.
MLNet supports several other protocols as well but I usually do not use them / do not give bandwidth to them. Includes Bittorrent, Fasttrack, Gnutella1/2, http/ftp/news/dcc and others.
With Bittorrent you have one easy target, the hub. And you can request nearly every information about its participant, what files and chunks he got, what he gave etcpp.
With mlnet you can actually only verify one thing: Someone gave you a chunk of a file matching a md5-checksum which you requested hours ago. You don't know how much he got, what else and if he even got the full fule. No central responsbility.
Oh, yes, you are still trackable. But only to a little more extent than freenet from a judge-point-of-view.
Also by using Linux I can have thousands of waiting connections which usually gives me very good rates. I only noticed one drawback, it usually tackes 60min to start full-speed-download while Bittorrent usually takes only 10min.
"Life is short and in most cases it ends with death." Sir Sinclair
To be fair, it wouldn't necessarily be difficult to implement a fully distributed Bittorrent system. The difficulty is achieving widespread acceptance to provide a large enough catalogue of material (illegal or otherwise) to make the network worthwhile in people's eyes.
.torrent from the process entirely, and have the DHT store the contents of the .torrent file instead. This is all easily achievable.
The research community has provided many, many ways of implementing distributed hashtable (DHT) functionality over the years, offering systems which can handle many thousands of nodes. Tapestry, CAN, Pastry, Scribe, Chord (etc, etc) are examples of such systems, each has its own way of organising the namespace across the nodes, each offers certain levels of redundancy between nodes.
It would be easy to implement one of these systems, or make use of code from one of the projects which has released code under some open source license. So long as results from a lookup were returned on the basis of finding only some terms in a query, rather than all terms, with some basic elements of information retrieval techniques coming into play here to provide a ranking on results returned, looking up content would be easily do-able.
If there's an issue with the system scaling, introduce some hierarchical structure to the system, the number of ways traffic can be passed between groups in the hierarchy (not necessarily reducing the number of nodes reachable from any one node). Christ, you could get a paper published just on that idea alone.
The DHT could either map [title]:[.torrent location] pairs (allowing the BitTorrent system to used in its current form). A cleaner solution would be remove the
Again, this would not be a difficult system to implement. The difficulty lies in acceptance.
1) Apparently the hostility towards trackers has grown. Sweden has just passed (or is in the process of passing) an anti-P2P law. Do you have ANY idea how expensive hosting is outside of NA. 2) Obviously it is easier for anyone to attack one target (the tracker) and destroy it, instead of a web of decentralized nodes. And it need not be the MPAA/RIAA. There are localized versions of the MPAA/RIAA in many other countries (I know both Canada and Australia have almost exact copies).
Due to the way Mixnets such as Tor work the overall performance of BT or anything else will be greatly reduced. Namely reduced to 1/(av_nbr_of_proxies+1). E.g. 2 proxies = 1/3 speed. This is pretty obvious seeing how every packet now consumes 3 times the bandwidth (and of course no bandwidth will be magically created). That's not to say it won't be usable though. (E.g. look at ed2k which is often slow, yet people use it anyway.) The largest problem ought to be massive increase in traffic this would result in if it caught on among the masses.
Or, you could just highlight, right-click and select "Go to URL".
:-)
Same effect, without an extension. In Opera of course.
Indeed, there is no substantial difference, only a difference in degree. If there were, ISPs who use servers that don't log would be more morally wrong then those who do. In essence, every practise that improves privacy would be, if the reasoning is followed consistently.
:-)
Anyway, happy newyear, halo1!
--- "To pee or not to pee, that is the question." ---
But doing it this way breaks if the link has spaces in it.
I think you're confusing 'nerds' with 'losers'.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Who wants to be the first to reverse engineer this thing? (Since it looks like it's going to be closed source, without a protocol spec avaliable)
I'd be willing to give it a go, guess it's time to brush up on my python..
My email addy? should be easy enough.
Crap, I made an elaborate post as an answer, klicked on submit (I thought) and the whole thing vanished. If you ever had the same: it's SO frustrating to see a post disapear into thin air, isn't it?
:-)
Ah well, I'm not going to repeat everything; we've covered most of it in the past. In essence, you're happy with irrational reasonings, and I'm not.
Let's just agree to disagree on this topic.
And a happy new year and many more interesting discussions. (And I hope this time, the submit will work).
--- "To pee or not to pee, that is the question." ---
I have a second one. Contact me if you're interested in working out a deal. I can provide screenshots to show it's legit.
Stasis is death. Embrace change.
It could also be done by the good guys to make it that much harder to find child porn. If 99.9% of labeled child porn was fake, it would be pretty pointless to search for it.
... might as well sell it as advertising space.
Hell, if we're going to distribute fake decoy porn
-kgj
-kgj
Luckily, at least on slashdot there aren't any real authority figures! ;-)
--- "To pee or not to pee, that is the question." ---
I realize that his use of "and" doesn't necessarily mean he's using an implication between normal and okay or deviant and not okay. However, the mention of normalcy and deviance would be otherwise irrelevant if he weren't using normalcy and deviance as hypothesis for implications.
I too am sad that suprnova is gone, I loved using its categories to find international (mostly spanish) music that i would not have discovered otherwise. .torrents are uploaded and distributed etc., is interested in discussing the creation of a new site, PLEASE contact me!
To me, it seems like the suprnova site wasn't really that complicated. But i could be mistaken because unfortuanetly i really don't know that much about the torrent process except for the end user (downloading) part.
If anyone, who knows a decent amount about how
Email: rylwin@houston.rr.com
PS: Since it seems like the MPAA might have been behind the suprnova shutdown, any legal advice about how to avoid suits from anyone with expertise in this field would be nice.
DMCA is so broad that posting links to sites can lead to legal issues. In this case it's the DMCA that is dumb, not the MPAA. (or maybe it's the american people who are dumb, they allowed such a piece of crap bill to exist)
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire