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Cooling Down Hot Processors

DonnaMai writes "Face it: the only scorching hot thing you want with a chip is salsa. Any other overheating is potentially counterproductive, and can be downright damaging to the microprocessor -- or other components. This article uncovers potential ways to chill the chips."

293 comments

  1. Salsa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I don't know about you, but I like my salsa cold

    1. Re:Salsa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since when is salsa ever "scorching hot" even in reference to spiciness?

    2. Re:Salsa by eno2001 · · Score: 2, Funny
      Since when is salsa ever "scorching hot" even in reference to spiciness?

      Since the [tt]ime that salsa is made with Habaneros (which aren't really peppers) that will burn a hole straight from your mouth to your ass. Considering that most people here on Slashdot don't have any real distance between those two sections of the body, I guess it doesn't mean much tho... ;P

      --
      -"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
    3. Re:Salsa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmmm, I love scotch bonnets...

    4. Re:Salsa by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      I don't care what temperature it is: I don't want any salsa near my CPU.

    5. Re:Salsa by Broiler · · Score: 1

      Salsa = Cold Queso = Hot

      --
      My sigs offend the max # of people all over the world, regardless of race, religion, color, sex or creed. It's a gift.
    6. Re:Salsa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Si es salsa picante, pica. Si es salsa calor, qema.

  2. Eh? by American+AC+in+Paris · · Score: 3, Funny
    Face it: the only scorching hot thing you want with a chip is salsa.

    Because nothing says "fiesta!" quite like third-degree burns on the roof of your mouth...

    --

    Obliteracy: Words with explosions

    1. Re:Eh? by magellen · · Score: 0

      I think that processor is hot for me ;)

    2. Re:Eh? by karnal · · Score: 4, Funny

      "Fieththa".

      Nope, didn't work. Roof is still tender.

      --
      Karnal
    3. Re:Eh? by mjspinks · · Score: 1

      I prefer hot con queso to hot salsa.

    4. Re:Eh? by christopherfinke · · Score: 1, Funny
      I prefer hot con queso
      You prefer hot "with cheese"?
    5. Re:Eh? by zev1983 · · Score: 1

      Wait, they're using salsa to cool Pentium 4's now?

    6. Re:Eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Vincent: And you know what they call a... a... a Quarter Pounder with Cheese in Mexico?
      Jules: They don't call it a Quarter Pounder with cheese?
      Vincent: No man, they got the metric system. They wouldn't know what the fuck a Quarter Pounder is.
      Jules: Then what do they call it?
      Vincent: They call it a "Royale Con Queso".

    7. Re:Eh? by Surt · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Man, if I wasn't banned from moderation ... that is the funniest reply I've seen in days.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    8. Re:Eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be "real con queso". (pron. ray-ahl, and there should be a "/" accent on the e - why doesn't slashdot accept LaTeX formatting? ;-).

    9. Re:Eh? by karnal · · Score: 1

      I think I like making comments for people to laugh at here better than I like to make "insightful" comments....

      Glad to know I can share my twisted humor with everyone!

      --
      Karnal
    10. Re:Eh? by karnal · · Score: 1

      Didn't you know? Everything is better hot "with cheese"....

      --
      Karnal
    11. Re:Eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but no. The correct pronounciation is reh-ahl, not "ray".

    12. Re:Eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Additionally, there's no accute accent in "real". Not in spanish, anyway, or any other romanic language that I'm aware of (I speak fluently 4 of them).

    13. Re:Eh? by Syntax+Heir · · Score: 1

      I thought that was, better with hot grits?

      --
      The greatest hindrance to success is a well-rationalized excuse
  3. You Insensitive Clod by big-giant-head · · Score: 2, Funny

    To maximize my ROI i use my p4 as a hotplate/Pizza Warmer when I'm not surfing the web.

    --

    So Long and Thanks for all the Fish.
    1. Re:You Insensitive Clod by Mad_Rain · · Score: 1

      I remember using my old Athlon to warm my apartment on cool winter nights...

      On a more serious note, I think that it's impressive that AMD has turned it around in the temperature department while still delivering great performance. The AMD64's kick ass when you want them to, and then scale back to be cool when you aren't running processor-intensive aps. I'm sure Transmeta or someone else thought of doing something like that before, but I think that this is where we'll see it more and mroe often.

      --
      "What do you think?" "I think 'What, do you think?!'"
    2. Re:You Insensitive Clod by bcmm · · Score: 1

      Do most (Intel) desktop processors use more power when they are being used more? heavily I had thought that they just did X billion cycles per second whether they had actual data to process or not.

      Would I save power by not running BOINC (it's like seti@home)?

      --
      # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
      Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
    3. Re:You Insensitive Clod by bcmm · · Score: 1

      I think the heat from my monitor makes this (small) room warmer...

      BTW is that sig meant to draw attention to that passage of the bible, or meant to imply that your post it a biblical quote?

      --
      # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
      Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
    4. Re:You Insensitive Clod by jericho4.0 · · Score: 1
      Heat varies markedly with usage. Different types of proccesing use different sections of chip, so what you're doing can make a difference. 3D games tend to get a chip as hot as it will get. Also stuff like BOINC.

      I thought it interesting that the recent release of details about Sonys Cell said that the chip had 10 temp sensors on board, presumably to shift processing away from areas getting too hot.

      --
      "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
    5. Re:You Insensitive Clod by jovlinger · · Score: 2, Interesting

      well,

      the linux kernel (and presumbaly the windows kernels as well) issue the hlt instruction when idle, which allows parts of the chip to power down, significantly reducing power and heat.

      (some/all?) desktop P4s can also scale down clock cycles under software control, but that is significantly coarser grain than the hlt instruction. When it works, the hlt instruction should be sufficient to keep the cpu cool when not doing anything.

      Of course, these recourses don't always work. My P4's fan is currently running very loud: I'm unsure whether the fan is on its last legs, or the CPU is erroneously not doing the hlt thing. Some suggestions are that SMP architectures hate hlt, and that hyperthreaded p4s are treated like SMPs. I'm still actively researching this. Anyone want to chime in?

    6. Re:You Insensitive Clod by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Anyone want to chime in?

      Some process is eating a whole lot of CPU time?

      I don't thing this is an issue with the Intel chips, but AMD XP chips apparently have to listen to to the PCI bus continously, and this keeps them from running HLT as much as they could otherwise (I don't remember, this might be a VIA chipset thing, and not actually AMD's fault). I downloaded a program a while ago that would HLT the CPU whenever it could, and basically told the PCI bus to sod off. The effect was very dramatic, with the CPU barely warmer than the ambient case temp when idle. But my sound didn't work so I had to dump it.

  4. Bah by ikkonoishi · · Score: 4, Funny

    When I was a kid we had to cool our chips by using our little brothers as a heatsink.

    1. Re:Bah by ciscoeng · · Score: 2

      Damn you ikkonoishi!

      love,
      your fried brother

      p.s. Sister's pregnant again.

    2. Re:Bah by Jardine · · Score: 1

      When I was a kid we had to cool our chips by using our little brothers as a heatsink.

      For those who don't get the reference, Bill Cosby has a story about how he used to bathe in the toilet as a child. But he found that the water was too cold so he'd use his little brother Russell to warm up the water.

      Of course, I could be completely wrong and this might have nothing to do with that bit.

    3. Re:Bah by ozbird · · Score: 1

      When I was a kid, we used to bolt our transistors to our little brothers - and we like it! But tell that to the kids of today, and they won't believe you...

  5. cool chips by Luxifer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What we really need is a spare, low-power, mimimal processor without all the fancy extensions that you can switch to when you're just, say, reading a webpage or email, or such.. you could integrate this right into the motherboard and completely shut down your processor when you're not using it for real stuff. IMHO... maybe an engineer will give me a reason this is unreasonable.

    1. Re:cool chips by MC68000 · · Score: 5, Informative

      We already have that. It's called Speedstep and it's on Pentium M processors.

      --
      E = m c^3 Don't drink and derive E = m c^3
    2. Re:cool chips by GeckoX · · Score: 1

      That is partly the purpose of the design of the new cell processor, allowing the processor to scale as required. It has a general purpose CPU, plus the actual cell's. You might just get what you're wishing for ;)

      --
      No Comment.
    3. Re:cool chips by Ironsides · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's called the Crusoe Processor by Transmeta. And yes, it is an x86 processor.

      --
      Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
    4. Re:cool chips by detritus` · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Because configuring a MB for 2 processors is going to be a lot more complicated than the switching frequency model they use now (ie. Athlon XP-M and Pentium M chips). This method is a lot less complex than attempting to use 2 processors, one for high load and one for low load. (imagine trying to determine what's considered high load? after all web browsing actually takes a fairly high CPU while rendering some pages, especially with the more complex XML and (ick) flash pages that are out there). I'm typing this on a Athlon XP-M laptop right now and it actually stays quite cool until the CPU load goes above a certain point and it jumps fromm 533Mhz to 1.74GHz, at which point if its sustained it almost gets uncomfortable for laptop use.

    5. Re:cool chips by doublem · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is software bloat.

      If applications were coded as if there were actual restrictions, if speed and efficency were a consideration, then this would be a valid option. 90% of the processing power in a computer would only be used when playing a game.

      Sadly, we live in a world where the OPERATING SYSTEM will soon require a 3D card to even function. (Windows Longhorn)

      The bottom line is, despite significant advances in hardware, the "User Experience" still feels as sluggish and slow as it did in the days of Windows 3.1 on a 386. How much does XP do that the average user needs that Windows 3.1 and Word 2.0 couldn't? Can you IMAGINE how fast Windows 3.1 would be on modern hardware if the drivers existed?

      --
      "Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
    6. Re:cool chips by DeathFlame · · Score: 1

      How does this help me when I'm playing games for 4 hours and my chip is using all it's power?

      You have to design such a system for the peaks, not just lower th entire average temperature of the chip.

    7. Re:cool chips by gl4ss · · Score: 2, Insightful

      if you want a low powered machine.
      buy one.

      but you'll still need to cool the high powered beast when you need the power, unless you would like to get some nitrous shitter that only could run full blast for 20 secs and then explode.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    8. Re:cool chips by AShuvalov · · Score: 3, Informative

      I guess that is available, you have nothing to wait.

      The AMD Athlon64 3500 consumes 20W of power on low load and 69W when you stress it. Most of the time it will be pretty cool.

      --
      Andrew
    9. Re:cool chips by ch-chuck · · Score: 1

      Yup - Right now my 1.6Mhz PM Inspiron is running at (cat /proc/cpuinfo) 598.161 Mhz. It will automagically step up to meet demand, but you can force high speed manually with (kill -s SIGUSR1 `pgrep cpuspeed`) and resume normal speedstep with (kill -s SIGHUP `pgrep cpuspeed`) (Running RHFC3).

      --
      try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
    10. Re:cool chips by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong. Longhorn will not *require* a 3D card. There are different levels of "immersiveness" that Microsoft refers to as "Tiers". Tier 1 will be the full-fledged, DX10-accelerated UI, with Tier 3/4 being a regular, no-frills 2D UI -- probably like something we're used to now.

      This has been done in order to retain compatibility with all of the systems out there that have sub-par graphics capabilities.

    11. Re:cool chips by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The bottom line is, despite significant advances in hardware, the "User Experience" still feels as sluggish and slow as it did in the days of Windows 3.1 on a 386."

      No. You are wrong here. Plenty of people talked about it in the responses to the editorial the other day.

    12. Re:cool chips by Trolling4Columbine · · Score: 1

      It's called feature-rich applications, and it's what most people want out of the software they pay good money for.

      Of course there will always be a few luddites like you out there longing for the days when 640K truly WAS enough RAM for everyone.

      --
      Socialism: A feeling of discontent and resentment caused by a desire for the possessions or qualities of another.
    13. Re:cool chips by adamh · · Score: 1

      Or "Cool and Quiet" on AMD chips.

    14. Re:cool chips by Surt · · Score: 1

      That's the OS shell. XP still runs fine headless.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    15. Re:cool chips by Dan+East · · Score: 1

      Don't forget AMD's Athlon mobile chips, which can switch between several different clock speeds instead of just 2 like the Pentium M.

      Dan East

      --
      Better known as 318230.
    16. Re:cool chips by CausticPuppy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sadly, we live in a world where the OPERATING SYSTEM will soon require a 3D card to even function. (Windows Longhorn)

      And that's not even an original idea from Microsoft.

      OSX 10.3 (Panther) already utilizes 3D acceleration on video cards and treats all windows as textures. That's how the nifty "expose" feature works. The first time I saw that feature it was one of those "why didn't anybody think of this before" moments. I don't even own a mac, yet... but my mini is on its way. :-)

      10.4 (Tiger) will take it to the next level with Core Image, which requires a video card with programmable pixel shaders (DirectX 9 equivalent from the Windows world). This will allow, among other things, realtime filters applied to videos, images, and of course some new OS eye candy. But it's mainly there to speed up image and video processing, which is what macs are supposed to be good at.

      However, a 3D card is still not "required" as the OS will automatically scale back the features that aren't supported (you will still be able to run Tiger on a 400MHz G3 iMac).
      I don't know whether Longhorn will actually require 3D cards, but saying "soon" in reference to Longhorn is a tad bit optimistic, don't you think?

      --
      -CausticPuppy "Of all the people I know, you're certainly one of them." -Somebody I don't know
    17. Re:cool chips by skubeedooo · · Score: 2, Informative
      I'm not totally sure of all this, but from memory win 3.1 couldn't:
      • Interface with USB peripherals, and hence the majority of devices which people want/use.
      • Have long filenames
      • Access large HDs
      • Have limited access users without some novell type extension
      And with word 2.0 you couldn't
      • Save docs as html
      • Do a decent grammar check
      • Write for more than an hour without it crashing.
      • Document templates?
      • Write scripts in a decent language where the object model is compatible with other 'office' applications, ie vb

      The bottom line is, despite significant advances in hardware, the "User Experience" still feels as sluggish and slow as it did in the days of Windows 3.1 on a 386.

      Why is this the bottom line? The UI needs to be acceptably fast, not 1ms fast.

      Can you IMAGINE how fast Windows 3.1 would be on modern hardware if the drivers existed?

      And who do you think would actually care?

    18. Re:cool chips by doublem · · Score: 1

      And what about the people like ME who want performance for basic functionality, instead of "animated menus" and all of the graphical crap that Microsoft is really referring to whey they claim an application is "Feature Rich"

      And how is embedding a flight simulator into Excel 95 "Feature Rich?"

      --
      "Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
    19. Re:cool chips by Dracolytch · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Dude, 90% of the processor power IS only used when playing a game. I have my system monitor open, and as I type this on my development computer, I'm at a steady 8 to 11 percent. 5% of that (half my CPU load) is running the flash animation on the top of this page.

      CPUs today are bored 90% of the time. Doing word processing and stuff, your CPU use is probably below 10%. The sluggishness has almost NOTHING to do with CPU speed. The big thing is load times, which is correlated to disk usage. RAM really is virtually unlimited, and the only time I've hit the limitations of my CPU are when I'm doing things like writing programs to breed multimedia files.

      If you're talking about lack of responsiveness, you sound like you don't need a faster processor... it sounds like you need a 1Ghz machine with 256 MB of decent RAM and a 10,000 RPM SATA drive. 512 MB of RAM if you surf with multiple windows and work with spreadsheets at the same time. Swear to god, that'll knock most of your lack of response time to near nothing.

      ~D

      --
      This sig has been enciphered with a one-time pad. It could say almost anything.
    20. Re:cool chips by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      New AMD chips run around 20-30 watt at full load anyway.

      They actually have very small difference between idle and loaded.

      This is the newer socket 939.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    21. Re:cool chips by Henk+Poley · · Score: 1

      Sadly, we live in a world where the OPERATING SYSTEM will soon require a 3D card to even function. (Windows Longhorn)

      So what? Ofloading this stuff to a graphical processor is a Good Thing (TM); The CPU has less to do and interface responsiveness can improve.

      The bottom line is, despite significant advances in hardware, the "User Experience" still feels as sluggish and slow as it did in the days of Windows 3.1 on a 386.

      Yes, Windows feels really sluggish. If you don't have much tying yourself to Windows you should try a recent Linux distro for a while. I seriously mean it, responsiveness is much better under the 2.6 series kernel, and everything just feels more speedy.

      It made my jump Linux much easier.

    22. Re:cool chips by Trolling4Columbine · · Score: 1
      And what about the people like ME who want performance for basic functionality, instead of "animated menus" and all of the graphical crap that Microsoft is really referring to whey they claim an application is "Feature Rich"

      Here you go.

      And how is embedding a flight simulator into Excel 95 "Feature Rich?"

      Can't argue with you there, but Excel 95 runs faster than OO.o on it's best day.

      --
      Socialism: A feeling of discontent and resentment caused by a desire for the possessions or qualities of another.
    23. Re:cool chips by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and how about all that graphical crap in KDE and GNOME? It makes me cringe. I don't need transparent menus, I don't need fading menus, and I don't need 20 MB skins.

      Geez.

      Don't even get me started on X.org's Compositing! Bloat City! /me sings Cry Me a River

    24. Re:cool chips by Changa_MC · · Score: 1

      dude, I use windows2000 and windowsXP, and I remember WFWG3.11

      Sure, applications can support cooler options, and pre-emptive multi-tasking allows for more system stability, but that's just cool-for-geeks stuff. In terms of actual user experience, there's no improvement in response time. Even though my computer hardware is 56 times faster than it was back then.

      And I still have to spend the same amount of money on computer hardware, to keep my experience from degrading.

      --
      Changa hates change.
    25. Re:cool chips by The+Salamander · · Score: 2, Informative

      My Pentium-M (733) has 5 clock-speed steps.

    26. Re:cool chips by jericho4.0 · · Score: 1
      It might run x86 code, but it's quite a long way from being a x86.

      --
      "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
    27. Re:cool chips by hackstraw · · Score: 1

      If applications were coded as if there were actual restrictions, if speed and efficency were a consideration, then this would be a valid option.

      I call BS here. For one thing, for "normal users" processor speed does not matter anymore. Any CPU made in the past 2 or 3 years is fine for most everybody. You can look at the web, read email, do office app stuff, play with your digital camera, and it will be fine.

      Now look at your "power user" aka gamer, digital video/pictures, audio, or the like. These apps are optimized to the max. In fact, those apps are the only ones that say on the box that they use CPU features like MMX, altivec, or optimized for a specific processor or its features.

      I've used "bloated" software for years, and I refuse to change that. Why? Because I like the features, flexibility, and development speed of said software. What kinds of software am I talking about? Things like Perl and shell scripts. Will these kinds of programs be replaced by "unbloated" versions anytime soon. Nope. Its too handy to have the program and source code be the same thing. Its known that using something like C, C++, or assembly would be faster, but who cares? Noone is going to create user accounts and copy files to remote machines via assembly.

      Also, software is not bloated in terms of sustained CPU usage (aside from the power stuff I mentioned earlier). Software is bloated in terms of needing "bursty" CPU utilization (oftentimes this is coupled with IO performance as well) such as when an application is initialized or started. Addressing the needs of CPUs today is the challenge of chip designers, not cranking out more cycles per second. A CPU with more torque if you will is something that would interest people greatly. It would be cool and quiet, but it would quickly provide the burst of power quickly when necessary. This would be very interesting in conjunction with SMP or multicore processors where the other physical CPUs or cores can be inactive until necessary, and then go back to sleep.

    28. Re:cool chips by doublem · · Score: 1

      Can't argue with you there, but Excel 95 runs faster than OO.o on it's best day.

      My point exactly. No one optimizes their code anymore.

      --
      "Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
    29. Re:cool chips by djbckr · · Score: 1
      I have an *old* copy of Microsoft Quick C. When I first installed it on my 286, it took about 20 minutes to initially compile the libraries.

      I recently installed it on my laptop (1.2 GHz) and the whole installation took less than 1 second. Amazing.

    30. Re:cool chips by jericho4.0 · · Score: 1
      "Sadly, we live in a world where the OPERATING SYSTEM will soon require a 3D card to even function."

      Well, it's not the operating system. It's the GUI to an operating system, that happens to be (too) tightly intergrated with the kernel.

      Looking at it from the *NIX world, the idea of a X server/WM that can take advantage of 3D accel seems more like the great feature it is.

      --
      "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
    31. Re:cool chips by Vince+Mo'aluka · · Score: 1
      CPUs today are bored 90% of the time.

      I'm running Gentoo, you insensitive clod.

      --
      You took his stuff. You pound him.
    32. Re:cool chips by Seq · · Score: 1

      My pentium M, a first generation one even, has several steps. That said, I usually run the machine at the lowest, 600MHz. You don't need more for regular system use, and it really helps with the battery.

      --
      -- Seq
    33. Re:cool chips by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      dude, I use windows2000 and windowsXP, and I remember WFWG3.11

      Me too. In fact, I remember DOS, too. With the exception of application startup and shutdown, my PC can't really be any more responsive for standard tasks. Startup and shutdown are IO bound, and I don't believe that my hard drive is 56 times faster.

      And I still have to spend the same amount of money on computer hardware, to keep my experience from degrading.

      Why? What happens to your current software that forces you to upgrade?

    34. Re:cool chips by Pusene · · Score: 1

      This idea is good, but not radical enough. What I want is a laptop with a slow (but fast enough for surfing and word) cool CPU, plenty of RAM (some for use as a ramdrive), and not-so-power-hungry harddisk and cd-rom. Such a machine shouldn't cost more than $200-$300 and run on battery power for at least 15-20 hours before a recharge.

      --
      Error #13: No coffee. Operator halted. Please place boot device at bottom.
    35. Re:cool chips by F34nor · · Score: 1

      My solution?

      Pay Microsoft Managers a pay scale based on the reduction in size of functioning code. So if you reduce you dept's code by 20% you get a 20% pay hike. It would work wonders.

    36. Re:cool chips by doublem · · Score: 1

      OHHH! And an added bonus for making the code run FASTER!

      --
      "Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
    37. Re:cool chips by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      New AMD chips run around 20-30 watt at full load anyway.

      The listed maximum for an AMD64 3000+ to 3500+ is 89 W for a Newcastle core, and 67 W for a Winchester. Maybe they don't really use that much, but 20 W at full load seems unrealistic (that's their given idling temperature).

    38. Re:cool chips by F34nor · · Score: 1

      Too subjective. Just smaller.

      Less code? More money!

      Note: This is for managers only, the code monkeys can snap for the bones at their master's feet!

    39. Re:cool chips by nathanh · · Score: 1
      OSX 10.3 (Panther) already utilizes 3D acceleration on video cards and treats all windows as textures. That's how the nifty "expose" feature works.

      Expose also works on a plain-vanilla 2D framebuffer. I know this because Expose works in MOL, running on Linux, and MOL video is only 2D.

      The real trick is that the windowing system for MacOS X stores each window in an offscreen buffer and then composites the onscreen display from these buffers. The compositing step can be optionally accelerated with 3D hardware. However the CPU can do the compositing if the system lacks the 3D hardware.

      You might be pleased to hear that the same trick is now available on Linux. Simply install X.org and enable the Composite, Damage and Fixes extensions. Then run the xcompmgr program. It is only software compositing for now, but support for hardware acceleration is in the pipeline.

    40. Re:cool chips by Changa_MC · · Score: 1

      I don't mind when applications are slow, I dislike it when I'm in Iexplore.exe (the windows shell) and I click on something, and it ignores me because it's busy loading something else. Not slows down, flat out throws away my keyboard input. And my HDD is 4 times faster than it was, so why does a word procesor take twice as long to load? Because programmer time is more valuable than user time, a model that will remain true until normal users realize that they're getting shafted (read: never)

      And nothing happens to my current software, but I like to run new hardware, which requires new drivers, which requires newer software, which rquires newer hardware. It's a consumer-based society for a reason.

      --
      Changa hates change.
    41. Re:cool chips by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      Nope. You must be thinking of the Pentium M there buddy. Triple those numbers and you'll be a lot closer to reality, at least at full load. CnQ is another matter of course.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    42. Re:cool chips by toddestan · · Score: 1

      This has been done in order to retain compatibility with all of the systems out there that have sub-par graphics capabilities.

      Or for all the people who recognize the ugly eye-candy for what it is, and want to turn it off.

    43. Re:cool chips by toddestan · · Score: 1

      And with word 2.0 you couldn't ...
      Save docs as html


      Last time I checked, Word still couldn't output a document as HTML. Sure, it can give it a .htm extension, but just open that file in Notepad to see what I mean.

    44. Re:cool chips by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      I could misunderstand what power consumption means.

      But this is where I got my numbers (from memmory and it was actually 40 watts)

      here

      If I am mistaken I would like to be corrected.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    45. Re:cool chips by renoX · · Score: 1

      Sorry but OS/application design can also help very much: BeOS was much more responsive than Linux and Windows are today on much faster CPUs (granted disk have not improved much).

      Probably because of good design (~14s to boot in BeOS in a usable GUI, while Linux/Windows takes >1min) and heavy usage of multi-threading: it felt much faster.

    46. Re:cool chips by Thing+1 · · Score: 1
      XP may run headless (in fact, I recently disabled the "pause on errors" in BIOS to test a desktop machine's wireless connectivity from down the hall; the only cable going to the tower was the power cable, and I was able to RDP into it through the wireless card).

      However, even when the user hasn't logged in yet, XP has still loaded all the GUI subsystems; you can't avoid loading those (or at least I'm not familiar with a way).

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  6. Laptops by simon+hughes · · Score: 0

    Why not make something for laptops so i don't get hurt from having my computer on the lap. (there was something about the heat hurting your sperm or something)

    1. Re:Laptops by LurkerXXX · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Someone needs to figure out an efficient way of makeing use of the huge surface area on the lid of a laptop for cooling. When in operation, it's facing away from you, so you wouldn't feel all the heat from it. The problem is tranferring the heat to a part that has to hinge away from the area that's making the heat. Plus there might be problems if it transfers too much heat to the LCD screen rather than to the air on the surface away from the user. It just seems a shame not to be able to take advantage of all that surface area.

    2. Re:Laptops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think it's that easy. Consider most servers and desktops have serious heat issues also (witness the peltier, water-cooling, & megafan crazes) and those machines actually have more "wasted" surface area and their cases tend to be metal (rather than typical notebook plastic).

    3. Re:Laptops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless you can make a hinge out of some exotic material that conducts heat at a ridiculour rate, it seems to me that the only solution to your requirements is some kind of liquid cooling. Indeed, once laptop manufacturers move on to liquid cooling, they might stumble on your idea all on their own... but of course there would be difficulties with mechanical wear of the pipes going through the hinge. I hope they can solve them.

  7. I beg to differ... by pranay · · Score: 0

    Its the chip that is hot here, so your salsa analogy does not work very good.

    1. Re:I beg to differ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Never beg.

  8. Cool it down by BooRolla · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The easiest way to keep it cool to not run Intel.

    1. Re:Cool it down by IBeatUpNerds · · Score: 1
      Are you kidding me? AMD may be more PC than Intel, but I've had the best cool running experiences with Intel, compared to say, an AMD. Let me start with some chips of about 8 years ago until now:

      • AMD K6 200 MHz - Constantly ran hot. Upgraded the fan/heatsink several times. Ended up having to downclock it to avoid sig11 issues.
      • AMD K6-2 450 MHz - Top of the line heatsink. Very favorable fan. Chip burned up. Returned it less than a month after buying it and was given in exchange...
      • AMD K6-2 550 MHz - Nice and fast for its time. Went with the best heatsink and fan available. Modified the case to include 3 fans, making it a bit of a wind tunnel. Within 6 months it was giving sig11 issues. It ran so hit that it had screwed up the bearings on the CPU fan. Replaced the fan, CPU died a month afterwards.
      • AMD Athlon XP 2200 - Best AMD to date. Runs very hot (55-60c) but the damn thing just doesn't quit. AMD Recommended fan and heatsink. It's hot, but I don't care. It's been running fine for more than 2 years. A few times I've approached 80c while playing UT2003. 80c is apparently the breaking point, according to AMD documentation. We'll see :)


      To contrast, my Intel experiences:
      • Intel 486 DX - Ran cool. Never had any problems. Still works more than 10 years later.
      • Intel P 133 - Ran cool. Never had any problems. Still works fine more than 10 years later.
      • Intel P2-233 - Went on vacation and didn't notice the fan gave out. Ran hot (45c) the entire time I'm guessing (CPU intensive screen saver ran constantly). Fixed fan, ran cool, still works, many years later.
      • Intel Celeron 500 (I think) - Ran cool. Still works.
      • Intel P3 800 - Runs cool. Heatsink caked with cat hair. Still running as we speak doing seti@home.
      • Intel P4 1800 (laptop dell i8200) - Pretty damn toasty (45-55c). Has never missed a beat, though...
      So, I've owned more Intel than AMD and had no fatal problems with Intel chips and in my experience the Intels have generally run cooler (compared to the AMDs I have experience with). All AMD chips I've owned have killed themselves quite early in their lives, except my current XP 2200. I am quite pleased with the XP 2200, however...

      I would love to hear other people's stories, though.
    2. Re:Cool it down by Quattro+Vezina · · Score: 1

      Agreed.

      Quite frankly, if a decent heatsink+fan isn't enough to keep your processor from overheating, you really need to get a new processor. You should spend your money on that, not on silly solutions that won't address the root cause of the problem and may or may not even work.

      It's a known fact that one of the easiest ways to completely destroy your machine is to use a watercooler.

      --
      I support the Center for Consumer Freedom
    3. Re:Cool it down by gnuman99 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      AMD Athlon XP 2200 - Best AMD to date. Runs very hot (55-60c)...A few times I've approached 80c

      Something is broken with either your installation, motherboard, fan or air circulation in the case. My Athlong *never* goes above 50. Most of the time, it runs under 40. Stock heatsink/fan.

      Your setup is messed up.

    4. Re:Cool it down by IBeatUpNerds · · Score: 1

      Your setup is messed up.

      We've already established that it's an AMD, so this is of little help :)

      Joking aside, stock fan/heatsink, good quality gigabit board, exhaust fan in back, intake in front. No obstructions (I'm not using ribbon cables). Building PCs for almost 15 years, I'd have to say the installation is excellent.

      I've run the case open with a _real_ fan blowing straight at it. It will run about 47c then.

      Your post just reinforces my opinion that AMDs vary greatly, whereas my experience with Intel has been consistent (and more favorable, I might add). As for the parent of my original post: classic slashdot-esque troll. Opinons vary.

    5. Re:Cool it down by stinkyfingers · · Score: 1

      The easiest way to keep it cool to not run Intel.

      Nor IBM

    6. Re:Cool it down by MikeS2k · · Score: 1

      From the article:

      Fry an egg on an Athlon XP

      Mind you, I've been running an XP 1700+ for two years now with a crappy HSF/low noise fan, and it's been doing fine (usually runs at about 70C).

      --
      120 characters should be enough for anybody
    7. Re:Cool it down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AMD Athlon 2400 (Thoroughbred B), temperatures as reported by lm_sensors v2.9.0, running Linux kernel v2.6.10-mm2

      fan1: 2872 RPM
      CPU Temp: +28C
      M/B Temp: +29C

      Heatsink is a Thermalright SLK800U, fan is an Enermax something, 80mm. Thermal compound is Arctic Silver Ceramique. Room temperature is around 21C.

      Pretty bland case, 2 additional system fans, 80mm each, one sucking air in (front), other sucking air out (back).

    8. Re:Cool it down by Lord+Ender · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I have run an AthlonXP 2100 for 3 years and it runs at 70C under load. Using the AMD heatsink and fan in a well ventilated case. Your chip runs cooler? Good for you. It probably has a different core. Shut up now.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    9. Re:Cool it down by sandman935 · · Score: 1

      My AMD XP2400 runs at 40c normally. If I'm stressing it, it might get as high as 50c.

      --

      Defecation occurs.
    10. Re:Cool it down by Trejkaz · · Score: 1

      What about chips like Transmeta's Crusoe? That doesn't exactly run like a ball of fire.

      --
      Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
    11. Re:Cool it down by MrNemesis · · Score: 1

      Didn't the 2200's come in both the Palomino and Tbred cores? IIRC the Palomino's all ran at fairly high temps (with the 2200 being the hottest and last of the Palomino line), whilst the 130nm Tbreds ran much cooler and went all the way up to the 2600's.

      --
      Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
    12. Re:Cool it down by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Your setup is messed up.

      He probably has a Palamino core, just like my AMD Athlon. Bonus points for using a VIA chipset board. Mine runs at about that temperature too. It's perfectly stable so I don't worry about it.

  9. In my day.... by vought · · Score: 3, Funny

    We used to build a little dam around the processor with putty, fill up the reservoir with freeze-spray, and drink margaritas while the whole shebang evaporated noisily.

    No fancy metal heat sinks for us...andd we liked it!

  10. Who cares? by pablo_max · · Score: 0

    really...as a consumer..who gives a crap how hot it gets? Is it fast? Does it work? those are the questions I ask. Face it, if it were actually something that normal(read non-/. type) people cared about it, then it would have been solved.
    It must have been just last night my GF was saying I really need a water cooler for the pc, it's so hot. Not!

    1. Re:Who cares? by orasio · · Score: 1

      People read /. as people who read /.
      The consumer POV is useful in other aspects of your life.
      You should better think, as a /. reading person, if you care about heat in your processor.
      If you don't, chances are you are not very much a nerd.

    2. Re:Who cares? by pablo_max · · Score: 0

      Im only trying to say that MOST people do not see this as a concern. Yes, I actually happen to have a water cooling solution on my PC, this is a noise issue and not a heat issue however.
      Modder DO NOT control the direction of the market. Most people who buy a comuter only want it to work and to be cheap. Period.

  11. Before the /. effect... by Blue-Footed+Boobie · · Score: 1, Redundant
    Overheated chips get doused by readers' suggestions for cooling systems Level: Introductory

    Joshua Fruhlinger (pdwe@jfruh.com) Editor and Writer 02 Feb 2005

    Face it: the only scorching hot thing you want with a chip is salsa. Any other overheating is potentially counterproductive, and can be downright damaging to the microprocessor -- or other components. In this Power Architecture challenge, developers warm up to the idea of how to cool down the hotter processors. From the weird to the wonderful, readers uncover potential ways to chill the chips. Somewhere, deep inside your computer is the tiny slab of silicon that makes it go. That slab in turn is built out of millions -- perhaps hundreds of millions -- of transistors. Every time one of those transistors changes state, it leaks a tiny amount of electricity; in turn, that electricity produces heat. And that heat, accumulated over millions of transistors changing state thousands of times per second, may potentially threaten your fertility (see Resources).

    Dr. Claes-Goran Ostenson saw this first hand when he concluded that one of his patients had been using a laptop in the way that its name implied, became engrossed in his work, and didn't notice the burning sensation in his lap, and thus became the first victim of what has come to be known as "lapburn." Ostenson felt the incident warranted exposure in the world of medical science, so he wrote a letter to the Lancet in 2002.

    It stirred a mild amount of controversy, with commentors coming down on predictable sides. Laptop manufacturers were skeptical, while spokespersons for companies that produce chip-cooling paraphenalia looked serious and nodded sagely, implying that your lap could be next. Worries about "lapburn" spawned a whole industry of fan-based gadgets that plugged into the bottom of laptops, sometimes rendering the laptops' portability features pointless in the process. But the situation did highlight one important fact: Chips are hot.

    And that's meant not in a market-ese, "everybody's-gotta-have-one" kind of way, but in a very literal and skin-scorching way.

    The winner The First Law of Thermodynamics states essentially that energy -- including heat -- can not be created or destroyed. And if you think the punishment is stiff when you break municipal, state, or federal law, just try monkeying around with thermodynamic law! Also, physicists such as Frenchman Nicolas Leonard Sadi Carnot, as far back as the 19th century, recognized that heat tends to move from hot objects to cooler objects. These two rules circumscribe the work of every engineer and tinkerer who has attempted to cool down microprocessors. Once a chip has generated heat, that heat cannot simply be eliminated or suppressed: It must be inevitably moved from the superheated chip to something cooler. Problems arise when those cooler objects are the sorts of things that react badly to steady influxes of heat, such as other components inside the computer case, or a Swede's lap.

    Since not many of you (or, frankly, none of you) wrote about how to actually reduce the amount of heat coming from a chip, this article focuses instead on cooling systems. Faithful reader Daniel Griffin did define the problem succinctly, however, and thus walks off with this month's grand prize of a developerWorks t-shirt. He points out that just "cooling a small area immediately above the processor" is fruitless; it's better "to move the heat away from the die than to deal with it." It's that struggle -- getting the heat away from the delicate, but hot, innards of your PC -- that has defined the cooling battle for the past decade.

    Astute readers will also note that Daniel's was the only entry this month. Come on, where's the competition? Your entries are the only thing between my box seats and "balcony rear" at the opera! Won't someone please think of the columnist?

    So this time, instead of your entries, this space is devoted to the history of the chip-cooling process. This is my treat to you, but don't forget t

    --
    DAMN YOU OCTODOG! DAMN YOU TO HELL!
    1. Re:Before the /. effect... by object88 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Does anyone else care that the submitter, DonnaMai, ripped off the article for his/her "submission"? How is it that on a website for nerds, we can't think of a way to at least paraphrase or summarize an article?

      Crap, I say!

  12. Move! by turboflux · · Score: 5, Funny

    Best way to cool your processor is to move to Canada. Hands down.

    1. Re:Move! by DeathFlame · · Score: 1

      Fuuny, but of course untrue since we heat our homes here same as you. Except we all live in igloos, eat baby seals and ride dogsleds in Canada.

    2. Re:Move! by metlin · · Score: 1

      Okay, in which case Minnesota it is.

    3. Re:Move! by Surt · · Score: 1

      Not when 31 degrees is considered toasty warm compared to the cold air outside.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    4. Re:Move! by temojen · · Score: 1

      You keep your house at 31 degrees? You must get heatstroke whenever you take a shower! (Canada uses Celcius)

    5. Re:Move! by 0racle · · Score: 1

      Turn the heat off. Why run a furnace and a P4 or Athalon and heat the house when the processer will do both. You'll save on energy costs too.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    6. Re:Move! by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      But if I put my hands down, they freeze to the railroad tracks.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    7. Re:Move! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But you can't buy a P4 here, it melts your igloo quickly :(

    8. Re:Move! by addie · · Score: 1

      As someone who lives here, I can say that (while funny) this statement is dead wrong.

      In the winter, the heat inside is turned on and the windows are shut. This can make it much warmer and stuffier than a breezy summer house on the beach. I could try storing my computer outside, but then there's all that snow...

    9. Re:Move! by HungSoLow · · Score: 1
      I completely agree. For some of us the heaters don't quite cut it.

      We have baseboard heaters that are quite ineffective at keeping the apartment warm. We had a cold snap that went down to -40degC recently, leaving the apartment (with max heat) at 13degC. Needless to say my 2800+ was running at 28degC, with motherboard hovering around the 15degC mark (with only a modest air cooling setup!)

  13. Just put. . . by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1

    a block of frozen CO2 on top of your pc and your problems will be solved.

    Granted, you'll have to have a tank of O2 nearby, wear a mask and have on thick gloves but hey, you can't have everything.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
  14. Tsssss! by geomon · · Score: 4, Funny

    Ice cubes work well.

    They don't last very long, though.

    Perhaps we should be working on a better ice cube!

    --
    "Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
    1. Re:Tsssss! by athakur999 · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's still thinking small. The biggest obstacle to cooling CPUs is that air is a very poor conductor of heat. Since almost all cooling systems used for PCs at some point have to radiate heat into air to cool down, air is the obvious weakness in the system.

      Solution: We all need to grow gills and move under the sea.

      --
      "People that quote themselves in their signatures bother me" - athakur999
    2. Re:Tsssss! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought the whole point of the article is that salsa is a good conductor of heat and should be used to cool chips as soon as we can get the diced peppers from clogging the fan.

    3. Re:Tsssss! by pipingguy · · Score: 1


      Good idea! What's the recipe again?

  15. salsa? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Salsa? What's wrong with curry sauce - great with chips.

    Oh. You mean Crisps? Or Nachos or something? I don't speak American, you insensitive clod!

    Oh. You mean integrated circuits? I DO like the idea of the CPU sticking out of the top of the case, like a muscle car's engine!

    ----
    Imagine a beowulf cluster of fans!

  16. Razored processor architecture by Raul654 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Dr. Trevor Mudge (U. Michigan) came to give a lecture at my University last year. He had an interesting proposal which I suspect is probably going to end up being used in nearly every architecture. The energy usage of a procesor is proportion to the square of the voltage - so dropping it as much as possible is desirable. The only problem is that once you get too close, you start getting bit level errors. He proposes to use a shadow register to keep track of values as they pass through and detect bit errors automatically, and route around them. If run at the optimal voltage (1.4 volts) a razored process will see a dramatic drop in energy consumption with a virtually-nonexistant hit to processing power.

    --


    To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
    --E.C. Stanton
    1. Re:Razored processor architecture by jumpingfred · · Score: 3, Informative

      That sounds like a bunch of extra logic at each flipflop. Which will reduce speed and increase the size of the chips.

    2. Re:Razored processor architecture by harrkev · · Score: 4, Informative

      But, as the voltage levels drop, the leakage current through the transistors increases. At some point, dropping the voltage does not reduce the power. I think that we are pretty close to this point already.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    3. Re:Razored processor architecture by Milican · · Score: 1

      That is why every semiconductor manufacturer has been lowering voltages. Remember 5V ICs? 3.3V? I don't even know where we are right now, but I'm sure its less than 1.5V. The formula you are quoting is

      P = I * V^2

      Where I is current and V is voltage. Its a fundamental formula in calculation of direct current power consumption for all electronic circuits.

      JOhn

    4. Re:Razored processor architecture by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 1

      No, leakage is lower at lower voltage.

    5. Re:Razored processor architecture by harrkev · · Score: 1

      Bzzzt. Wrong. Thank you for playing. I have a master's degree in electrical engineering. What are your qualifications?

      Think of a MOSFET transistor as a door, but you can only pull on it to open it, you can't push it shut (an enhancement-type MOSFET). If you can only pull very weakly on the door to open it, you use a weaker spring to pull the door shut. At some point, the door will not shut entirely.

      At 5V, the leakage current is essentially zero and can be ignored. You have no problems at 3.3 and 2.5. But once you start getting around 1V or 1.5V, you have to start worrying about these things.

      I am not a silicon guy (I am a VHDL guy), so I do not know how much lower voltage can get, but I do know that we are already having problems in this area, even at 1.5V. Will we ever see 1.0V processors? Maybe. Maybe not. Will we ever see 0.5V processor? Nope. Not with silicon.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    6. Re:Razored processor architecture by loose+electron · · Score: 2, Insightful

      hm......

      Double the number of registers?
      I dont think so.
      How about parity (one extra bit) and ECC? Its been in the communication world forever.

      The "optimal voltage" is dependent on the foundry process and the threshold voltage associated therewith. Latest and smallest (90nm) sits at a power supply of 1.1V and has gate oxide leakage problems like you would not believe. After all the gate oxide thickness is about 6 atoms right now.

      Running at reduced power supply voltage does reduce power, but the penalty is paid for in several areas: reduced driver capability, not able towork at the fastest clock rate, susceptible to environemnt noise, much more sensitive to analog issues.

      What you are describing now becomes an analog design issue.

      --
      www.effectiveelectrons.com "chips that work" Analog, RF, Mixed Signal
    7. Re:Razored processor architecture by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Your point is valid so long as you need to maintain speed. If you use full static CMOS throughout (P4 and Athlon don't, for performance reasons) and allow speed to fall as you drop voltage, voltages can get very low. 4000-series standard 15 volt CMOS can run at 1 volt, although no manufacturer will guarantee it. Similarly, CMOS designed to run at 1.5 V could run well below 0.5 volt ... just not at anywhere near full speed.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    8. Re:Razored processor architecture by sam_da_mann · · Score: 2, Informative

      Bzzt, actully you're both wrong.

      I'm also an EE. True, as technology improves the voltage is lowed. The Vt must also be lowered, thus increasing leakage. But for A GIVEN PROCESS is in the method described by GP, drain-source voltage has minimal effect on subthreshold leakage. The standard equation is, assuming Vds > 100mV

      Id_sub=Id0*W/L*exp[q(Vgs-Vt)/(N0*KT)]

      Id0 begin the current at Vgs-Vt and N0 being the subthreshold slope

    9. Re:Razored processor architecture by solarium_rider · · Score: 1

      Size of the chip is not a problem. Currently, about 80-90% of the chip is L2 cache, the actual CPU only consists of a very small corner of the chip. Overall, speed is more likely to increase, due to the lower amount of charge that is needed to turn on/off a gate (RC Delays.)

      --
      -- How many sigs are as useless as this one?
    10. Re:Razored processor architecture by solarium_rider · · Score: 1

      True. The threshold voltage (the voltage necessary to turn a transistor "on" at the gate) is bottoming out around 0.2V. Below this when a transistor is suppose to be off, there is a significant (~10E-9A) amount of current and this increases exponentially w/ decrease in threshold voltage. Not only do you have problems with power, but stacked transistors are no longer at 0 volts in the intermediate junction when they are suppose to be, resulting in slower pull ups and pull downs.

      --
      -- How many sigs are as useless as this one?
    11. Re:Razored processor architecture by dago · · Score: 1

      Well, I type this on an old XP desktop processor which is running fine at 1.3V. Some newest Athlon64 (desktop) runs at 1.1V (22W)

      Intel is even making a couple of 'ULV' (ultra low voltage) pentium-M down to 0.84V (4W).

      I don't think any of these have this extra silly logic.

      --
      #include "coucou.h"
    12. Re:Razored processor architecture by harrkev · · Score: 2, Informative

      As it turns out, Anandtech mentioned this today.

      ANANDTECH ARTICLE

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    13. Re:Razored processor architecture by rew · · Score: 1

      This is complete bullshit. (pardon my french).

      The registers are not the problem. If you take an SRAM chip designed for 2.5V and lower the voltage a bit, and then bring it up to 2.5V to test-read the contents of the cells, you'll find that you can go VERY VERY far. In practise, removing the power completely and then bringing it back will show significantly more than 50% of the cells still having the right contents.

      There are two (related) problems: When a combinatorial part of the processor does its thing, it slows down if it gets a lower voltage. So the results are available later. If that is after the next clock, the wrong results will be clocked into the next register.

      Similarly, if you have a long line going from one end of the chip to another, this will slow down, leading to the results not getting there in time.

      These problems are easily fixed: use the right voltage.

      Once you drop the speed enough to allow lowering the voltage, you can also do that.

  17. Liquid Nitrogen, of course by tajmorton · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As reported on /. a while back. "Record Attempt: The 5 GHz Project"

    --
    Tell the truth and you won't have so much to remember.
    1. Re:Liquid Nitrogen, of course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is so out of date it's not even funny. People have reached 6.5 GHz with LN2 now.

    2. Re:Liquid Nitrogen, of course by mt+v2.7 · · Score: 1

      Also reported on Slashdot a while back: 6.0GHz broken

      Bit outdated there

  18. Better than water cooling by doublem · · Score: 1

    The funkiest solution I ever heard of was submerging the entire motherboard in Mineral Oil and using some aquarium filters. Have wires running out of the soup to the hard drive, floppy and the rest and you're good to go.

    I'm told it was fun to watch as the mineral oil went through the filter and was cooled by the process of falling through the air.

    Don't know how long it ran before a technical problem though.

    It WAS something a coworker told me a college friend had told him about.

    --
    "Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
    1. Re:Better than water cooling by Blue-Footed+Boobie · · Score: 5, Interesting
      I built one of those a while back...

      Here it is in the "mostly finished" stage:

      Picture 1

      Picture 2

      --
      DAMN YOU OCTODOG! DAMN YOU TO HELL!
    2. Re:Better than water cooling by doublem · · Score: 1

      OK, that clearly and definitively qualifies as Cool.

      Of course, you don't have the $20 aquarium filter to keep the oil in motion. :)

      --
      "Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
    3. Re:Better than water cooling by Blue-Footed+Boobie · · Score: 1
      Actually, the finished version has a pump. The oil is pumped through two copper "cooling stacks" I custom made.

      One of these days I have to take new pictures...

      --
      DAMN YOU OCTODOG! DAMN YOU TO HELL!
    4. Re:Better than water cooling by Ingolfke · · Score: 3, Funny

      I can one up you. I built one of these, but instead of using mineral oil, I used vegetable oil. I run Gentoo, so I'd download a copy of Gnome, recompile from scratch, and then toss a bag for fries into the oil. They'd cook up really nicely in about 7 minutes. A friend of my brother, built one of these contraptions, and installed Gentoo from stage 1. He managed to deep fry and entire turkey. It was delicious.

    5. Re:Better than water cooling by doublem · · Score: 1

      Mmmmm. That reminds me, time to go get lunch.

      --
      "Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
    6. Re:Better than water cooling by Dorothy+86 · · Score: 1

      any reason why I wouldn't be able to see them?

    7. Re:Better than water cooling by jafiwam · · Score: 1

      Is it just me, or is there no data connection from the motherboard to the hard drive?

      Makes me wonder what the conductive properties of mineral oil is... especially over a long period of time where water/metals/other stuff might disolve in it...

    8. Re:Better than water cooling by Blue-Footed+Boobie · · Score: 1
      Hence the disclaimer that these pictures are only in the "Mostly Finished" stage.

      I never got around to taking pictures of it fully-finished.

      It ahs proven to be non-conductive for quite a while now though. As you can tell by the mobo, it is an older P1. I've yet to upgrade it to a faster/newer (and hotter) system.

      --
      DAMN YOU OCTODOG! DAMN YOU TO HELL!
    9. Re:Better than water cooling by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Mineral oils are generally non-conductive. Some oils have been used as insulators is transformers, although tars (very high viscosity oils) are more common. My understanding is that oils tend to be non-conductive because the molecules are non-polar.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    10. Re:Better than water cooling by deacon · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Mineral oils are generally non-conductive.

      Yes, but they are solvents for the plastic parts used on the MB. Over time, the plastic parts (such as slot connectors) will swell, and eventually they might break the solder joints.

      The pcb itself might swell, and if it does, it will break the plated thru holes and vias between the layers in the board.

    11. Re:Better than water cooling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you want to use is 3M Flourinert, probably FC-70 or 77. They have a whole range of temperature ratings, apparently. But it's not cheap.

  19. It must be cold in here by Mr.+Falco · · Score: 1

    Why not put it in a dry freezer. That should keep it nice and cool. Ice cream helps to cool off those hot chips.

  20. I like hot by SpongeBobLinuxPants · · Score: 4, Funny

    I don't know what the problem is, I like hot chi... oh wait, you're talking about chips, nevermind...

    1. Re:I like hot by ch-chuck · · Score: 1

      You mean this?

      --
      try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
  21. that's not what engineers do! by feepcreature · · Score: 1

    You need a marketing person to tell you why a slow, cool processor is unreasonable!

    --
    Paul "Say no to feeping creaturism"
  22. Overheating vs. High Operating Temps by BenBenBen · · Score: 3, Interesting
    The original poster makes the very common mistake of confusing hot chips with overheating chips - just because 90degC is hot to us meatbags, doesn't mean that it's dangerous to have ICs who run at this temp.

    There are many, many ICs that run happily for years at high operating temperatures (Blaupunkt's Digiceiver digital RF processor being one I'm familiar with).

    Saying this, I do run a 12" G4 PowerBook and can appreciate the delights of a 20degC chip...

    --
    The Slashdot Paradox: "100% Overrated"
    1. Re:Overheating vs. High Operating Temps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Saying this, I do run a 12" G4 PowerBook and can appreciate the delights of a 20degC chip...

      Yes, but in a Powerbook, I've noticed in addition to the CPU, I get a lot of heat from continuous drive access and the airport card. In order to run bittorrent overnight, for example, and keep temps down, I decided to use ethernet instead of airport, an external HD for all BT-related files, and add more RAM so the internal drive is accessed less. On a wooden desk, I wake up in the morning and the desk under the PB is actually quite cool.

    2. Re:Overheating vs. High Operating Temps by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      For MOSFET-based processors, speed is roughly inversely proportional to absolute temperature. If you could cool your 90degC chip down to 30degC, you could run it 15% faster.

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      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    3. Re:Overheating vs. High Operating Temps by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      P4's don't overheat, they just slow down past 80. My 3GhZ P4 stays at 74 with the zalman fan at 1600RPM. It's not silent, but it's almost quiet enough for my music room. My P4 notebook is quiet enough, just wish I could run PCI audio hardware on it.

      A co-worker of mine has a Zalman Reserator, including the VGA cooler, and a silent power supply and an external soundproof drive enclosure. It's the only truly silent PC I've seen, not counting some 533MhZ Via C3 systems which aren't very useful.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
  23. What about by LukaFox · · Score: 3, Interesting

    a liquid cooling system that is also a conversation piece http://nobispro.com/aquatank/?

    1. Re:What about by bat2k · · Score: 1
      Nice try. After RTFA, I found this at the end...

      Frequently Asked Questions
      (added May 18th, 2002)
      1. What if you wanted to use the fish tank as a reservoir for water cooling?
      A) I briefly considered the idea, however it would require a rather large radiator to keep the water near ambient when it returned to the tank and it would most likely harm the fish.

      --
      My other sig is a Porsche.
    2. Re:What about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A few months back I was looking through some pictures of case mods at various websites when the idea came to me, "why not put a fish tank in a the top of a full tower case?"

      Yeah, why not?

    3. Re:What about by LukaFox · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that wasn't intended as a viable cooling solution. I thought it was funny.

  24. Cool Processors by Pan+T.+Hose · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How do I cool processors? Simple: I underclock them. Even a 10-20% less MHzs is usually enough to get rid of a noisy fan, i.e. the most stupid idea in the history of personal computers. Most of today's computers are I/O-bound anyway (Moore's law) so there is no performance loss whatsoever. Seems like an obvious solution.

    --
    Sincerely,
    Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
    "Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
    1. Re:Cool Processors by Beyond_GoodandEvil · · Score: 0

      The best way to get rid of a noisy fan, i.e. the lamest thing to bitch about in the history of personal computers, just turn the sub-woofer up.

      --
      I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
    2. Re:Cool Processors by Kenja · · Score: 1

      Why not just use a thermal regulator? My dual xeon setup has this built into the mother board. The case and cpu fans dont move unless they are needed.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    3. Re:Cool Processors by Dracolytch · · Score: 1

      But then I'll loose the .5 FPS in DOOM III, which will mean I won't be able to p0wnz on n3wbz anymore. ;)

      ~D

      --
      This sig has been enciphered with a one-time pad. It could say almost anything.
    4. Re:Cool Processors by Vince+Mo'aluka · · Score: 1

      I would love to underclock my Athlon XP 1800, but after reading up on the technique, I decided that it couldn't be done cleanly (in terms of both reliability AND tidy-ness). Underclocking would be the perfect solution if it could only be done cleanly and easily.

      --
      You took his stuff. You pound him.
    5. Re:Cool Processors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Underclocking would be the perfect solution if it could only be done cleanly and easily.

      What's not "clean" about it? Other than feeling dirty that you are not a 1337 0v3rc10ck0r?

    6. Re:Cool Processors by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      My computer is also underclocked. When I need more power (to train a neural network or simulate something), I also just reconfigure it.

    7. Re:Cool Processors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wasn't that Ahmdel's law, not Moore's law?

    8. Re:Cool Processors by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Most every AMD Socket A board from 1800Mhz era lets you switch the FSB speed between 100Mhz and 133Mhz somewhere, either in the BIOS or by a jumper on some motherboards. This was to allow the older T-birds and Durons to be used on the board. All you need to do is find where to make the change, change it to 100Mhz, and enjoy your new AMD Athlon XP 1350!

    9. Re:Cool Processors by rew · · Score: 1

      When you lower the clock speed, the power the chip produces goes down linearly. If however, you lower the clockspeed, AND lower the voltage on which the core of the CPU runs (which is what speedstep and the likes do!) then power consumption goes down even faster.

      Last time I tried that, the motherboard was not "designed for overclockers" and wouldn't allow me to do this. :-(

    10. Re:Cool Processors by Vince+Mo'aluka · · Score: 1

      Right, but the general idea is to underclock the processor, not the FSB. You will take a bigger performance hit by lowering the bus speed than by using a lower multiplier. Unfortunately, the process of unlocking the multiplier isn't clean, easy, or reliable.

      --
      You took his stuff. You pound him.
    11. Re:Cool Processors by Vince+Mo'aluka · · Score: 1

      The process of unlocking the multiplier is what's not clean, nor is it reliable.

      --
      You took his stuff. You pound him.
    12. Re:Cool Processors by tod_miller · · Score: 1

      Right, +1 insightful for the fact that we can underclock out CPU's.

      -1 troll for mentioning moores law.

      Why? Read this (oh wait, 503 error from /. [...] still 503 error, been a minute now... [...] If I hold control and hammer the refresh button it will help? Yes!) Journal

      Moores law isn't a law, and isn't even applicable in what you are saying, what you are saying it that, CPU's have not been caught up by other IO, which isn't moores law, moores law was just his random diary of interludes between arbitary paramters in CPU transistor density.

      Please don't be like a stupid shit microsoft employee and write 'everyone knows what moores law is, oh I am a fag' becuase you think it adds weight to a dumd idea.

      Sorry this is a flamebait troll post becuase moores law sucks.

      --
      #hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
  25. And why was this article accepted?! by William_Lee · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There was nothing new or innovative in the article, and it had the depth of Paris Hilton as far as actual real world cooling suggestions.

    There are a ton of different solutions out there both onchip and off including aircooling via different heatsink designs, watercooling, peltier cooling, and self contained refrigeration units.

    This article barely scraped the surface of anything useful or interesting related to cooling.

    Oh wait, this is /. I forgot for a moment...

    1. Re:And why was this article accepted?! by StCredZero · · Score: 1

      I also found this article vacuous at a Paris Hilton level. No exaggeration at all. Perhaps this was an attempt at humor?

    2. Re:And why was this article accepted?! by JaffaKREE · · Score: 2, Funny

      If you'd seen the videos, you'd know Paris Hilton can actually go pretty deep...

    3. Re:And why was this article accepted?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because it was funny as hell?

      Oh wait, this is /. I forgot for a moment...

  26. Ducting by kavachameleon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When I first got my Prescott chip, it ran *way* too hot. Realized that the stock thermal pad was just acting as insulation, so I scraped it off and replaced it with Ceramique. It still ran warm, so I superglued a piece of 3" PVC pipe to my case fan. Now air blows right onto the processor area, and the CPU temps are great. I highly recommend the ducting. Cheap, easy, and oh-so-geeky.

    1. Re:Ducting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ducts can also be really good for reducing noise by pointing it elsewhere.

    2. Re:Ducting by ctr2sprt · · Score: 2, Interesting
      This is the way most rackmount servers work. Because of space concerns they can't easily fit a regular heatsink/fan combo in the case, especially with 2U (3.5" tall) or 1U (1.75" tall) cases. So they put a bunch of fans on the front or rear (or both) of the chassis and use a plastic duct to route the air over the processors and vent it out of the case. It also seems to be a common tactic among the low-end home desktop systems: the power supply fan is ducted over the CPU and out the back of the case. The motivation there isn't space or cooling efficiency, it's cost (fewer fans) and noise level (again, fewer fans).

      I think this is increasingly the way we are going to have to go as we try to squeeze a little more life out of air-cooling. But I really think we are going to have to move to water cooling soon. I'm a little surprised it isn't already happening with servers: due to the space constraints, they would be the biggest beneficiaries. And due to the efficiency benefits, you could cool several servers - maybe even an entire rack - with one radiator (assuming of course that the radiator is designed for that). Smaller installations, with only a few racks, might even be able to eliminate expensive dedicated AC units.

      Even in the home market, you could cool a radiator pretty well with a small number of large, low-RPM fans. It should result in a cooler system. My understanding is that at present water cooling is not much quieter than air cooling, if it's quieter at all, but I think that's more a limitation of currently implementations (which target the insane overclocker crowd, who don't care as much about noise).

    3. Re:Ducting by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      Nothing new, and not necessarily geeky. I have seen Compaqs, Dells and Digtal (DEC) computers with ducting. The DEC I have was assembled in 1997. The Compaqs I have were made in 1998, 2001 and 2002, they have ducts in one form or another.

    4. Re:Ducting by Hymer · · Score: 0

      ...IBM and HP used this too...

    5. Re:Ducting by MojoStan · · Score: 1
      ...I superglued a piece of 3" PVC pipe to my case fan. Now air blows right onto the processor area, and the CPU temps are great. I highly recommend the ducting.

      This sounds similar to Intel's Thermally Advantaged Chassis (TAC) guideline, which is recommended for Prescott processors. The current version of the guideline (version 1.1) includes a 92mm rear exhaust fan and an 80mm (3.1") "side-panel air duct."

      From Intel's site:

      A thermally advantaged chassis can be recognized by a hollow tube attached to the side panel called a chassis air guide which has flared ends. This tube will funnel cool air towards the processor passively, without fans.
      Them Prescotts seem dang hot. I'm glad most case manufacturers are building a duct into the side panel of some cases, though. If interested, look for "TAC" or "Thermally Advantaged Chassis" in you next case.
      --
      TO START
      PRESS ANY KEY

      Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...

    6. Re:Ducting by digitalchinky · · Score: 1

      In the foyer of DSD there is (or was) an old Cray SC. The plate says it ran at a whopping 150MHz - pretty fast in its day I guess. That thing was liquid cooled, can see the piping work through a perspex panel in the front. (Or walk around the back and climb inside the machine - poke around a bit, nobody cares, seriously) It has been stripped down, most of the electronics are gone, just one segment left.

      The thing looks like some 1970's piece of 'new age' furnature - think of a tube with seats all around the base.

      (disclaimer, I haven't been inside HQDSD since 2000, so I don't know if it's still there)

      The new supercomputers look like V12 racing engines, with cute wind tunnel desinged plastic covers and all.

    7. Re:Ducting by Technician · · Score: 1

      I superglued a piece of 3" PVC pipe to my case fan

      I'm suprised nobody pointed out that a CPU fan does not remove heat from the case. It simply spreads it out to the sourounding area. Then some gets moved out by the case fan.

      Using a duct to the outside (either in or out) keeps the problem of recirculating the warm area air back into the CPU fan. This non-recirculating duct does wonders by design. It is designed not to suck in from it's own heat exhaust. It's better to blow 70 degree F room air on the heatsink than re-circulated 100 degree case air.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
  27. More efficient software by G4from128k · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Call me a curmudgeon, but it seems like most of the heat is created by wasted cpu cycles. Eye candy is nice, but at 200 million computers in the U.S. alone, each Watt saved represents about $31 million in annual energy costs (assuming 40 hrs/wk, @ $0.074/kWHr. Reducing power consumption by 10 W would pay for a lot of good beer to fuel software development for more efficient software.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
    1. Re:More efficient software by DeathFlame · · Score: 1

      This still doesn't solve the peak temperature problem for when you ARE using all of the processer power (games)

      I like my eyecandy in games, and my AI, and my physics, and don't want to go back to not having those.

    2. Re:More efficient software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      curmudgeon

  28. Re:but by essreenim · · Score: 1
    erm, s/north/south/

  29. Cheap solution by nizo · · Score: 0

    The best solution is to install something like NetNanny to filter out porn sites. Even the slowest and oldest cpu in the world can't help but heat up when natportmanhotgrits.jpg is being processed.

  30. Fans Attempting to Pay for Enterprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First we have "Fans Attempting to Pay for Enterprise," and now they're "Cooling Down Hot Processors."

    Is there anything that these devices can't do?

  31. Excuse my Ignorance.... by devphaeton · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...but would increasing the size of the actual chip help any? Like a vented, flow-through design. The actual chip is about the size of a fingernail, i know, but if we increased it to the size of the whole plastic skirt around it (that which has all the pins) wouldn't that help heat dissipation?

    I haven't taken any measurements, but i'm willing to bet that the skirting around that wouldn't be much bigger- we've got more length on all sides, so we don't have to go as deep.

    However, i don't design microprocessors, and don't know anything about electronics, so i'm betting there's something i'm missing out- i.e. the impedance or capacitance effects of increasing the microscopic traces. I would assume someone has thought of this once before, but with all the rush to make stuff smaller and smaller, can it be overlooked?

    It's not like we don't have any spare room in a PC case, y'know...

    --


    do() || do_not(); // try();
    1. Re:Excuse my Ignorance.... by melandy · · Score: 1

      Not really. One of the reasons that chips are getting faster and faster is that they are getting smaller and smaller.

      I'm probably using incorrect terms here, but you should be able to figure out what I mean: The longer a given trace is (distance from one transistor to another), the longer amount of time it will take to signal a state change (0-->1 or 1-->0). Now expand this single trace idea to all the traces on the chip, and you get a significant propogation delay.

      This will most definately slow the chip down, and may not help the heat problem either. This assumes that you're using the same number and type of transistors... those are still going to be generating heat. Granted, it will be spread out further as you suggested, but thermal conduction will do that anyway.

      If you don't care about bleeding edge performance, then just underclock existing chips.

    2. Re:Excuse my Ignorance.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With greater distance between transitors, latency would be increased, making the processor much less efficient.

    3. Re:Excuse my Ignorance.... by Intocabile · · Score: 1

      Increasing the size of the die would limit the speed the processor could run at even if the same size of transistors(90nm,130nm...) were used. Not to mention an exponential increase in price.

    4. Re:Excuse my Ignorance.... by david.given · · Score: 4, Informative
      would increasing the size of the actual chip help any?

      It would --- but there would be other problems.

      The first one is the most simple: silicon's expensive. Really expensive. The more units you can slice off that wafer the cheaper the units are. Making the die bigger simply for thermal reasons isn't going to wash with the chip manufacturers. They already glue the die to a metal backing plate, which gives you much the same effect anyway.

      The second one, however, is the most crucial one. Electricity is slow. Electrical impulses travel at about 2/3 c through copper and a touch less through silicon (IIRC, I can't find the figures to check). This means that the bigger your die is, the longer it takes the impulses to travel from one side of it to the other.

      A 1GHz clock fires every 10^-9 seconds; since the speed of light is 3x10^8 m/s, this means that the impulses are going to travel about twenty centimetres between clock pulses. For a 4GHz clock, it'll be about 5cm. There's a lot more wiring than that folded up inside the die; and it gets worse --- particular things happen at particular times throughout the clock cycle, and where you are in the clock cycle now depends on how long the wire is that connects you to the clock. Making sure everything happens in sync is a nightmare.

      There are solutions to all of this; asynchronous designs which don't use clocks, offloading functionality to special-purpose processors like GPUs so you don't need as fast a main processor, radically different approaches like Cell, optical transports so you can route signals through each other, etc, but basically there are loads of good reasons why you need the die to be as small as humanly possible.

    5. Re:Excuse my Ignorance.... by kayak334 · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure that the interconnects inside the microprocessor would have noticably larger delays at the size you mention. It sounds crazy, but it happens. Stuff like L1,L2 cache --> FPU delays can affect the overall maximum frequency of the chip, and thus slow it down.

      But you are correct in assuming that it would help heat dissiapation, assuming you kept the same number of transistors. If you really wanted to, you could make a chip that large with the same transistor density, but it wouldn't do you much good because the overall clock speed of the chip would be much slower than a modern microprocessor.

    6. Re:Excuse my Ignorance.... by PabloJones · · Score: 1

      I don't design processors either, but wouldn't increasing their size actually make them go slower since there would have to be longer circuits? And don't longer circuits mean more overall resistance?

    7. Re:Excuse my Ignorance.... by drew · · Score: 1

      also, one more reason that manufacturing larger chips is hard- die yeilds go down drastically even with minor increases in die size. the larger you make your chips, the more faulty chips you are going to have to discard in the qa process.

      --
      If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
    8. Re:Excuse my Ignorance.... by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      I imagine you are talking about using a bigger chip, with an area just assigned to heat transportation (without transistors). Well, this is not done because increasing chip's size is very expensive (the bigger the chip, the more prone to errors on its manufactoring process). Also, it will have litte impact, because the hotter areas of the chip need to stay toghether for better performance, so gluing a dissipator face to face hith the chip is still more effective.

  32. Use athcool. by Nosf3ratu · · Score: 1, Interesting

    apt-get install athcool

    --
    The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori
  33. too hot... by Dtyst · · Score: 0

    this subject is so hot I won't even touch it with a 10-foot pole...

  34. keeping it cool by GatesGhost · · Score: 0

    i just stick mine in a tub of cold water. but for some reason it stops running after that. still trying to figure out why.

  35. What a disappointment by Noose+For+A+Neck · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Here I was, all set to read an interesting article about technical solutions to the problem of heat transfer on microelectronic chips, and instead all I get is a bunch of fluffy gibberish that looks like it was written by a sophomore communications major in college.

    Color this mechanical engineer disappointed.

    --

    Software piracy is victimless theft.

    1. Re:What a disappointment by karnal · · Score: 1

      Color this mechanical engineer disappointed.

      So, what, fuscha?

      My parents only gave me the 64 color crayola set.

      --
      Karnal
    2. Re:What a disappointment by Eric604 · · Score: 1

      You must be new here or did you actualy see an interesting article on /. this year?

  36. Insert Witty Title Here by LewsTherinKinslayer · · Score: 2, Funny

    This is so lame, I think I should post it AC...

    ... but...

    The roof, the roof, the roof is on fire!

    (Or, for the Futurama fan in you, and me, Nixon: "The loot, the loot, the loot is on fire!")

  37. Re: Before the /. effect... If ever...? by loyukfai · · Score: 1

    Maybe the mighty IBM can withstand one?

  38. Cooling chips, another idea by ites · · Score: 1

    The air surrounding the chip does not conduct heat efficiently. Therefore only the area in direct contact with the heatsink and/or cooling mechanism will drain heat from the chip.

    My invention is this: encase the chip in a liquid or (better) a solid that does not conduct electricity but is an excellent heat conductor. Alternatively, wrap the chip in a thin layer of insulating material and then encase the rest in a metal brick. The idea is to provide a large solid primary heat sink.

    The primary heat sink should have a highly convoluted surface as to maximise its area.

    A secondary heatsink (coolant, fan, etc.) will move heat still further away.

    Ideally the heat produced in this way would be used to drive useful processes, such as espresso production.

    --
    Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
    1. Re:Cooling chips, another idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be a good idea, except that conductors tend to have the same abilities for both heat and electricity. There is a reason that the best heat sink compound contains silver: silver is one of the best conductors of both heat and electricity.

    2. Re:Cooling chips, another idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Am I missing something, or are you just talking about a regular old metal heat sink, bound to the chip by thermal paste?

    3. Re:Cooling chips, another idea by Hymer · · Score: 0

      I think I've seen it used on some IBM and DEC chips long time ago...
      DEC used btw. a real fancy way to mount a cooler to the ALPHA chip... 2 M6 (or was it M8) bolts was integrated in the chip...

    4. Re:Cooling chips, another idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      YA DUMB!

  39. ummm.... by Seabass55 · · Score: 1

    No big advancements brought out in this article.

    My AMD64 3400+ never goes about 100F with my hyper 6 by coolermaster. Granted it's got an 80mm fan but it's quieter than most power supplies. From there you can underclock and turn the fan down to where it's nearly silent while maintaining a good temp.

  40. Why do we need hot processors? by Lurks · · Score: 1
    I think the issue of cooling down hot/fast CPUs needs to be brought back onto why we need these hot CPUs in the first place.

    Intel have, in fact, been pulling the blinds over our eyes with the Pentium 4 series - particularly the infamous Prescott infernace. An entire industry exists in cooling down CPUs to the point that there's more reviews of silly cooling contraptions and water cooling kits on the web than there are the bits in PCs that do useful stuff.

    Why the Intel blinds? Because the Pentium M manages to be just as fast and frequently faster - when given a fair trial on a desktop board - as the latest and greatest Pentium 4s. What's more, the chips cost less and they use a fraction as much power.

    One wonders what tricks Intel will use to bump the heat up on the new 800 series (basically just two Pentium Ms on a chip) to safeguard the enthusiast cooling industry?

    I'm sure they'll think of something.

    1. Re:Why do we need hot processors? by kannibal_klown · · Score: 2, Informative

      Their problem is the megahertz myth...

      They've been pushing this for so long, that they can't look back now. Yes, the Pentium M's perform great, but they're still only around 1.7 GHz.

      While that out-performs P4's with MUCH higher clock-speeds, what are they going to say? Buy this CPU, it's 1.7GHz! Joe Sixpack would say "But I can buy this here Penteeyum Four with 4 GHz... 4 is better than 1.7."

      AMD has been rating their CPUs on performance to keep competitive with Intel's. If anything, Intel will have to follow their lead and do the same if they really want to push the Pentium M's to the masses.

    2. Re:Why do we need hot processors? by harrkev · · Score: 1
      What's more, the chips cost less and they use a fraction as much power.
      In theory, I agree with you about the benefits of the Pentium M. However, in general, the "M" version are more expensive. Newegg lists the cheapest M at around $215. You can get a large selection of P4s at this price (not including celerons). So the price argument flies right out the window.

      But they ARE nice chips. Intel should re-engineer ALL of their chips to be more like the M.
      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    3. Re:Why do we need hot processors? by hanshotfirst · · Score: 1

      I want a processor that goes to 11!

      --
      Why, oh why, didn't I take the Blue Pill?
    4. Re:Why do we need hot processors? by beyonddeath · · Score: 1

      I have a 1.4ghz pentium M laptop and the damn thing gets hotter than lava. If i wanna set it down i put it screen side down in an attemp to give it better air flow. u sure cant use it on your lap, but its a great laptop otherwise, quick enough, small, long run time. I think the other reason it gets hot is cause its either doing video encoding or running filters on 300mb pictures all day. regardless my dual opterons dont go above 40 with stock coolers, and with my nice, QUIET, water cooling kit fron innovatek (german company, metric fittings but very very high quality stuff, you can use a lighter to heat home depots pvc tubing to fit, and then use quick release fittings they sell too) i never get above 25c. That would be in near dead silence if i didnt have 7 hard drives in the other side of my (cube server) case. at any rate the laptop's heat dissipation is pathetic, why is it a laptop if u burn ur balls off when you try and use it.... sorry about that rant but dell seems like a good company on the surface...

    5. Re:Why do we need hot processors? by Lurks · · Score: 1
      I don't agree. I bought a 1.7 less than I bought a 2.8 P4. I overclocked the 2.8 P4 to 3.2 before. I overclocked the 1.7 on a desktop board (which I've been playing around with to amazing results) to 2.0 and the performance is around about the same.

      Only this time I'm not chewing 150W of power, I'm using less than half that. That means a silent cooler too.

    6. Re:Why do we need hot processors? by Lurks · · Score: 1
      Erm, your laptop is trying to make do with a fan about the size of a ... what is it you call that 25 cent coin again, a quarter?

      If you take the Pentium M and you put it on a desktop board and add the smallest of heatsinks and fans assembly - such as those provided with the DFI and AOPen PentiumM desktop boards - they seriously don't crank above 40C ever.

      One might equally ask how many times you press your gonads to the underside of your desktop processor. Apples and oranges.

  41. Obligatory link by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 2, Interesting
  42. New Cooling Technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From today's Raleigh, NC News and Observer: http://www.newsobserver.com/business/story/2100089 p-8480000c.html

  43. Second the motion. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At the bottom of TFA was a request for proposals for something for April Fool's day.

    Anyway, my favorite solution is the heat pipe. They act like a thermal superconductor but they are sensitive to orientation ie. 'up' has to be up or else. With a heat pipe, you could move the cooling surface to the back of the lcd. It would work great unless you tried to use it upside down.

    If I wanted a computer to run for ever in a harsh environment, I would seriously consider dunking everything but the drives in a tank of transformer oil.

  44. Water cooling is inevitable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Water has the highest specific heat available, and therefore will
    be the most effective means available for transferring heat.

    If the coolant will reach temperatures above the boiling point of water,
    then propylene glycol would be a better choice, because its boiling point is _much_ higher.

    IMO, the surface area of the case can be used to advantage, if coolant is circulated
    through passages which are either in the case or attached to it.

    1. Re:Water cooling is inevitable by A.+Rimmer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Water cooling is the WORST for of cooling if have encountered.

      When a water filled radiator is used on a cpu instead of a fan the heat that leaves does not get dealt with. Small components overheating aren't any better than the cpu. Sure, you can put in a powerfull (loud) set of case fans to deal with the extra heat, but what's the water system there for then?

      I worked in a small "geeks for hire" computer support team. ALL THREE of the water cooled systems I worked inside of had HEAT problems. And one was leaking!

      The problem with computers heating up is caused by tower cases. If you lay the components out on a sheet of plywood and use regular fans you get superb cooling. Submerged in mineral oil works great too. Don't be an idiot though, you need depth, a few millimeters over the cpu won't cut it (this guy is going to use a pump and copper radiator for what would have cost $2 in mineral oil!).

    2. Re:Water cooling is inevitable by robotoverflow · · Score: 1

      Sure, you can put in a powerfull (loud) set of case fans to deal with the extra heat, but what's the water system there for then?

      Most heat is simply being transferred to the radiator. There's no extra heat coming from anywhere except the pump, which is nothing compared to what a cpu, video card or hard drive puts out. You don't seem to understand that the water circulation is only there to move the heat from one place to another, while most of the dissipation is happening at the radiator. That's why you need the fans there, just the same as why you would need fans in any other conventional cooling setup. One of the other advantages of water cooling is that you can use larger fans which actually spin slower, are quieter, and last much longer than a 7200rpm 60mm howler ever would. So even though you still need fans actively removing heat from the system, they're making a whole lot less racket, and they're managing to do a lot more work than a fan bolted onto a heatsink would.

      Your whole argument against water cooling seems to be based solely on experience with poorly planned, inneficient water cooled systems, and it doesn't help that you don't seem to understand the basics of thermodynamics. Come back when you have a clue.

      --
      % mkdir :
      % ls -dF :
      :/
    3. Re:Water cooling is inevitable by A.+Rimmer · · Score: 1

      darn slashdot ate my little arrows and words - this sentence should read:

      When a water filled radiator is used on a cpu instead of a fan the heat that leaves the sides does not get dealt with.

      the failings of water cooling should now be obvious to even the most dim-witted individual who holds an advanced degree in hyper-dimensional thermodynamics, n'ics,

    4. Re:Water cooling is inevitable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the failings of water cooling should now be obvious to even the most dim-witted individual who holds an advanced degree in hyper-dimensional thermodynamics

      Your thoughts are so riddled with inaccuracies that I can only assume you're attempting some sort of really dry humor.

      Here's a clue: you've failed no matter what the intent.

  45. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  46. No speed reduction by Raul654 · · Score: 1

    The shadow registers run in parallel with the computation logic and do not add anythign to the total path length, which means there's no loss of speed.

    --


    To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
    --E.C. Stanton
  47. That's what the sleep Button is for by demonic-halo · · Score: 1

    That's what the sleep Button is for.

    I use it pretty often on my Mac. For some reason, on my parents PC it doesn't seem to work reliably as they do on their PC laptops.

  48. Radical cooling idea by dreadknought · · Score: 1

    I know this has been done before, but it's not something you see very often. The basic premise is: Pure water doesn't conduct electricity! So, use a modified fish tank (make sure it and your computer are squeaky clean), and fill it with distilled water. Then submerge your squeaky clean computer into the squeaky clean water contained in the squeaky clean fish tank. Blam! Instant kick-ass cooling. Convection currents alone will help to cool all hot parts, but you could easily add a water pump to create forced currents.

    --
    What you reap is what you sow
    1. Re:Radical cooling idea by cpghost · · Score: 1

      Don't try this! A lot of chemicals from the mobo and cables would diffuse chemicals in the pure water, and sooner than later, the water will conduct enough current.

      --
      cpghost at Cordula's Web.
    2. Re:Radical cooling idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      De-ionized water does not, in fact, conduct electricty. But, under the right circumstances (for example, absorbing a lot of heat) it can re-ionize. Then you're fucked.

    3. Re:Radical cooling idea by evolutionaryLawyer · · Score: 1

      1. Distilled water is not pure water. A significant number of compounds can make it through more than one round of distillation.
      2. As soon as you add anything to the water( container for water), the contaminants will make it conductive enough.
      3. Pure water is also a fairly good oxidizing agent, so it would simply degrade all that lovely metal enough to make a very handy electrolyte solution.
      4. There are plenty of non-conductive hydrocarbon solvents which would be much safer (for the computer).

  49. Crime and Punishment by skubeedooo · · Score: 1
    From the article, "And if you think the punishment is stiff when you break municipal, state, or federal law, just try monkeying around with thermodynamic law!"

    As of yet there has been no punishment, since there has been no crime. Presumably if someone did break it, their punishment would be a nobel prize though.

    Am I the only one that gets irritated by these kind of articles?

    1. Re:Crime and Punishment by Maljin+Jolt · · Score: 1

      Am I the only one that gets irritated by these kind of articles?

      No.

      --
      There you are, staring at me again.
  50. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  51. Plagiarised again? by Osty · · Score: 3, Insightful

    From the Slashdot summary

    Face it: the only scorching hot thing you want with a chip is salsa. Any other overheating is potentially counterproductive, and can be downright damaging to the microprocessor -- or other components. This article uncovers potential ways to chill the chips."
    and from the first paragraph of the article itself
    Face it: the only scorching hot thing you want with a chip is salsa. Any other overheating is potentially counterproductive, and can be downright damaging to the microprocessor -- or other components. In this Power Architecture challenge, developers warm up to the idea of how to cool down the hotter processors. From the weird to the wonderful, readers uncover potential ways to chill the chips.

    Aside from the removal of one sentence and a slight re-wording of the last, this is word for word the introduction to the article. If you were to submit this in a paper for a college (or even high school!) class, you'd be a good candidate for a plagiarism investigation.

    Once again, Slashdot editors, there's a very simple way to deal with this -- change the author attribution. Rather than saying, "DonnaMai writes ...", use "DonnaMai quotes ..." or "DonnaMai poorly paraphrases ...". By properly citing the summary as a quotation or paraphrasing* of the article, you would avoid the impression of plagiarism.

    * Yes, paraphrasing is allowed by fair use. In fact, if you're going to summarize an article, you want to paraphrase. However, paraphrasing is not, "Copy a sentence with a changed word here, drop a sentence there." You need to write a summarization in your own words, not take the article's words and (poorly) "massage" them so that they're not 100% identical (90% identical is still a problem).

  52. Power! by bsd4me · · Score: 1
    v = i * r
    p = i * v = i^2 * r = v^2 / r
    --

    (S(SKK)(SKK))(S(SKK)(SKK))

  53. Material Science by Intocabile · · Score: 1

    What's needed are breakthrough in material science. Carbon nanotube heatsinks, on die peltiers, diamond based semiconductors. If engineers make these technologies work, in the future we might not be worrying about heat anymore but other barriers to performance. Such as software design and storage I/O.

  54. Good grief. by Kickasso · · Score: 1

    If you're going to push a fundamental formula onto us unwashed masses, first make sure you haven't fundamentally forgotten it, OK?

    P=I*V.

    1. Re:Good grief. by Milican · · Score: 1

      fsck! I was thinking of P = I^2 * R

      Yep, its been a while. Thanks for the catch.

      JOhn

  55. Intelligent case design by Martian_Bob · · Score: 1
    Intelligent case design and fan placement really solves most ills.

    Not to get into a clock-waving contest (excuse my pun), I'm running a Prescott 2.4GHz chip on a microATX board inside a gutted Mac Classic with one 8mm fan in the side, one 12mm fan out the back, and it runs at an average 96F. Just my two cents.

    1. Re:Intelligent case design by Zemplar · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Not to get into a clock-waving contest (excuse my pun), I'm running a Prescott 2.4GHz chip on a microATX board inside a gutted Mac Classic with one 8mm fan in the side, one 12mm fan out the back, and it runs at an average 96F. Just my two cents."

      VERY IMPRESSIVE. Hell, I don't even know where I can find an 8mm or 12mm fan, let alone ones that would actually cool anything.

  56. Imagine my surprise by doombob · · Score: 1

    When I clicked on the link in the article expecting to see some fried eggs and instead there was this.

    I WILL NEVER USE A LAPTOP AGAIN

  57. Welcome to the free market by Acy+James+Stapp · · Score: 1

    Bloat is there because it's cheaper to buy a new PC than to buy unbloated software.

    --
    -- Too lazy to get a lower UID.
  58. How to fry an egg on...... by Shadow_139 · · Score: 0

    Use your hot CPU to cut breakfast :)

    http://www.phys.ncku.edu.tw/~htsu/humor/fry_egg.ht ml/

  59. Spot the Mac user by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    just because 90degC is hot to us meatbags, doesn't mean that it's dangerous to have ICs who run at this temp...many ICs run happily for years

    You use "who" to refer to chips rather than "which" or "that", and describe high-temp chips as "happy" with their lot in life. Actual for-real people meanwhile, are merely "meatbags". I didn't even need to read your last sentence to know you are a Mac user.

    1. Re:Spot the Mac user by BenBenBen · · Score: 1

      Maybe I'm a silicon AI with a penchant for hot ICs.

      --
      The Slashdot Paradox: "100% Overrated"
  60. My processors are not hot by bechdol · · Score: 0
    They are not even cute!

    Actually, I have dual processors. Each processor has a heat sink and a fan on the heat sink, but most importantly, my enclusure is WTX form factor which allows the motherboard to be mounted upside down... keeping the CPUs away from the heat generated by the power supply and hard drives.

  61. Peak heat or sustained heat. by gelfling · · Score: 1

    The dudes and Overleap are more concerned with the effects of sustained heat on the motherboard, particularly the capacitors which reduces significantly the functional life of the circuitry. They figures they use estimate that today's current crop of CPUs generate enough heat to reduce the life of the motherboard by half or to about 3 years on average. So regardless of what is happening to the operational performance of the unit from too much heat, what's true is that come hell or high water your machine will die in about 3 years.

    Considering a I just took a 11 year old PC out of service on my home network I consider this a very big downer.

    In fact with the way that companies like Dell do their financing you will probably wind up paying a lease on a machine that doesn't last as long as the term of the lease. And that is great big fat downer.

    1. Re:Peak heat or sustained heat. by toddestan · · Score: 1

      I was wondering about that very issue. I'm having what appears to be a hardware problem with this computer (AMD XP 2000 Palamino) where the computer often locks up whenever you try to access the network right after you turn it on, but after ~10 minutes it's fine. To me, this sounds like something that is intermittant/flakey when cold, but when it heats up it is fine. And the onboard networking is literally right next to the CPU on my motherboard.

  62. multiple computers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Use an older, cool laptop to do everything you do daily and enjoy the instant-on/off. use cpufreqd, apmiser, and even something like the gnome cpufreq applet to control speed use.

    Save the superhot machine for your gaming, if you still play games. It's soooo much quieter and cooler in my office since I switched to notebooks.

  63. Need an endothermic process by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    99% of the suggestions are variations in heat transfer... moving the thermal energy from the chip into a heat sink, and then into the surrounding air.

    The other method is to come up with an endothermic process, one which absorbs the heat and transforms the thermal energy into a different kind of energy.

    A simple example is to boil a liquid such as water or alcohol. The thermal energy is absorbed by the heat of evaporation of the liquid, and the vapors exit the case. Or, this could be used in a closed loop system, such as a Carnot cycle to actually use the waste heat to generate electricity.

    Another example would be some kind of chemical reaction that absorbs heat.

  64. Underclocking and undervolting primer by rhizome · · Score: 2, Informative

    Primer at www.silentpcreview.com

    std. disclaimer: i am just a fan. ba dum bum.

    --
    When I was a kid, we only had one Darth.
  65. What we really need is... by Delilah+Jones · · Score: 1

    What we really need is a radiator.

    "Me ol' compy's leaking coolant again!"

    It could even be fanned by your very own flatulence, and you could say you have a gas-powered cooling system.

    Okay, well, it was just a thought....

    --
    http://augustwestproducts.i8.com
  66. Article Content? by Sodium+Cyanide · · Score: 1

    Am I the only person that sees absolutely nothing in the article about CPU cooling? All I saw was a bunch of crap about April Fool's and a huge amount of "Resource" links that had little to do with cooling, either. If you anyone came here is interested in cooling, then check out vaporizers, cascade phase-change systems, and take a look at stirling engine technology. Carbon nanotubes and diamonds are in the future. I suggest starting at http://www.akiba-pc.com and checking out their article on cascade systems to begin.

  67. CPUfreq (Linux kernel 2.6.x) by Vishruth · · Score: 1

    http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/cpufr eq/cpufreq.html

    CPUfreq works very well both on my Dell Inspiron 8600 (Pentium M, 1.8GHz) and my desktop machine (Pentium 4, 3.0EGHz).

    Using CPUfreq is a good way of lowering CPU temperature when all of the CPU's power is not required (like when using the computer just to listen to music, etc).

  68. Heat is secondary effect by mabu · · Score: 1

    From my experience, heat is indeed a killer, but more often than not, the heat and the subsequent damage done is a secondary effect of not keeping computer equipment in a clean environment. When dust accumulates in the PC, this affects the components and causes heat build-up. I'd say a bigger problem involves people not keeping the area around their PC clean. The way I figure, if you own a cat and the thing is always near the computer, subtract a year right off the bat.

  69. Intel Branding by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 2, Funny

    Hotness is all about Intel's branding....

    Did you hear about the new hotness? Intel Pentium, SCORCHING PERFORMANCE! ssssssssss!

    Stick a Prescott on a long stick and apply that scortching brand on the rear end of any Longhorn cattle, and you've got yourself a stampede of sales, yeeeee-haw!

    --
    You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
  70. Free as in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Beer.

  71. Thanks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks, I needed some validation of my self-image!

  72. from the article by dingfelder · · Score: 1

    in case you didnt read the article, the option I liked the best was
    using liquid nitrogen for supercooling
    http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20031230/

  73. What?!? Processors get hot?!? by jgoemat · · Score: 1

    I've never heard of such a thing, but I cracked open the case and sure enough there was a fan attached to my processor. That must be used to cool it down. I've just had a great idea! Wish some extra cooling, I may be able to increase the clock speed of my processor! I think I just invented a new thing, maybe I should patent it. What should I call it? Since I'm going "Over" the normal "Clock" speed of my processor, I think I'll call it "clock-overing"! I'll try to clock-over my processor tonight and if it works, I'll be in the money!

  74. #1: Make sure your fans are facing correctly. by Behrooz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I can't believe nobody has said this yet, but the absolute FIRST thing you should do if your system is running over-hot is check the airflow and direction of all of your fans.

    Most ATX cases like to have a fan blowing in the front, and other fans blowing out the back, check your case documentation. If one of your fans isn't working well, or is actually facing the wrong way, the entire airflow scheme goes straight to hell. I've seen this happen several times, but now that cooling is so critical incorrect fan placement is often a show-stopper.

    Today's story? My buddy builds a new system with a new P4 3.4HT. It exhibits classic signs of overheating-- the fan sounds like a 747 taking off all the time, odd beeping, memory errors, and when his brother who actually built it for him runs 3DMark, it scores something like 40% of what it should have on CPU. Everest says it's running at >80C. Much freaking out is done, and they order a hardcore Thermaltake fan to replace the standard/weak one that came bundled with the processor. That comes, and it helps somewhat, so the processor isn't stepping itself down to non-melting temperatures, hanging at 65-70C full-performance. Memory errors still a bit of an issue.

    So I come over to look at it. Dumbass neighbor (Best Buy Geek Squad employee/Frat Boy) had put the front fan on facing backward while assisting with the assembly, so the front 80mm case fan was blowing OUT of the case.

    I unscrewed the fan, flipped it around, and two minutes later the computer was playing Far Cry and humming along at 40C, by far the quietest computer in the room.

    Moral of the story? If you have a misplaced or broken fan, your cooling power drops massively. It pays to actually look at your case documentation now. Oh, and buy Antec.

    --
    "We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech." - David Brin
  75. Those cooling fans in the case... by Hymer · · Score: 0

    ...are usually facing in the wrong direction... they should be blowing in the case (except the one in the PSU)... there are two advantages : you get a cooler PC and a more silent PC (this was btw. implemented in some DEC cases).
    ...and use good silent fans (f.x. Papst)... they move lot of air without the noise...

  76. Secret internal IBM memo by interstellar_donkey · · Score: 1

    IBM Developer Works staff writing guidelines:
    (For internal distribution only).

    1. Chose topic for writing that is common knowledge in the computing community that you yourself know very little about.

    2. Do research on topic by asking your neighbors about it. Then ask people from the local coffee shop. Include this process in your article.

    3. Ask other editors about the topic. Print their way off responses without actually showing an understanding of them.

    4. Always include buzz words like "nanotechnology" in your articles to show you're on the bleeding edge. Also include references to pop-culture like "The Daily Show" to show you're hip. You may want to tell people you lived near the Berlin Wall in your by-line to show how cool you are.

    5. Inflate your article as much as possible. While you could say what you need to say in 2 or 3 paragraphs, include all sorts of extraneous information so it looks like you are a real writer.

    ***

    --
    The Internet is generally stupid
  77. Salsa? by PoopJuggler · · Score: 0

    Are you suggesting that I pour salsa into my computer... again?

  78. ..if the drivers existed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For real. Why does all my hardware have to be obsolete just so I can use a single new piece of hardware?

  79. Cooling.. anyone remember when.. by Xaggroth · · Score: 1

    Anyone here remember when the liquid based off of novec 1238 appeared called sapphire. A post for it was issued way back when: http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/1 4/1621235&tid=126&tid=14 Anway, on the topic of cooling, total submersion of the cpu and motherboard within this man made liquid was thought of. With the right equipment, I'm sure it wouldn't be a bad idea, and if someone could get ahold of it, I'm sure they'd want to hack one out first before the corporations got ahold of the idea.. Just a thought on how you could seriously cool your computer.

  80. ... How bouta ... by ninjagin · · Score: 1
    Bigass heatpipe?

    I recall reading and article (with pictures) where a guy who had been water-cooling his CPU using a radiator and an in-window air conditioner.

    To cut down on noise, he ran a 60-foot copper pipe out of his office, along his garage floor and back into his office. He filled it with gallons of water and had a pump recirculate the whole business over his CPU.

    I thought that was a wcky idea, until I saw the movie of the liquid nitrogen 5 GHz overclock at Tom's hardware.

    --
    .. pa-ra-bo-la, pa-ra-bo-la, 2 pi R, 2 pi R, where's your latus rectum, where's your latus rectum, 2 pi R
  81. Best cooling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All ya gotta do is let my ex-wife stand next to your computer and I guarantee nothing will get hot. She's colder than liquid nitrogen.

  82. Re:Laptops - Synthetic Jets by dotpavan · · Score: 1

    http://gtresearchnews.gatech.edu/newsrelease/synje ts.htm This new technology seems to be promising.

  83. But why do CPUs get hot? by jago25_98 · · Score: 1

    No one wrote in to the article to say why either
    "Since not many of you (or, frankly, none of you) wrote about how to actually reduce the amount of heat coming from a chip..."

    There's electric involved in a small space... and that's abuot as far as my knowledge goes.

    - dentritic (tree) heatsinks

    I think a big problem will/is the ratio of having physical space in the core for cooling of some sort verses the slow down that that space creates.

    Because the human brain also creates heat and ditto for others I feel the problem will remain until quantum efforts. Overclockers feel that this seems to be a sorely overlooked part of increasing speed on the CPU makers part -

    why isn't CPU design heading toward cooling as it gets harder to increase CPU speeds?

    Here's a mind bender; what if the actual design of the CPU was made such that it's very design has a piezo effect... would be harder than C++ Code obfustication to design I guess.

  84. salsa? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How very American of you....

    Me? I want fish with my chips.

  85. Dans' Data by pipingguy · · Score: 1
  86. Note to editors: by httpoet · · Score: 1

    When the article summary is the same as the first paragraph of the linked article, this is called PLAGIARISM.

    You shouldn't allow this to happen, as it lowers Slashdot's creditibilty. Hopefully you can find the time to check for plagiarism right after performing a thorough dupe che...ohh nevermind...

  87. Actually, we need better applications... by Kjella · · Score: 1

    ...that don't stall when IO is blocked. Opera and Microsoft Word are two notorious criminals in this regard. I assume Opera is constantly writing to disk due to its "restore-on-crash" fucntion, Word with auto-save... which in itself, is fine.

    But when doing heavy IO (e.g. a BT download), they are unusable. Then I use Firefox and Textpad. Just put that damn disk IO on a separate thread and let it go off to limbo. I've done that myself, for crying out loud. It doesn't take a genious. I repeat, the GUI thread should never ever be doing disk IO.

    Kjella

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  88. not on RACK mount servers, they don't by RMH101 · · Score: 1

    a rackmount server in a full rack has bugger-all coolling surface: take a modern 1U server like an HP DL360. stuff it in a populated rack and there's 1U of space at the front, and 90% of that is taken up with floppy, CD, and hard disks. at the rear, there's 1U of space, and 90% of that is taken up with I/O ports.

  89. Could This Work? by Cycloid+Torus · · Score: 0
    Just wondering if you could make a sandwich - with inert fluid between HS and CPU.

    Is there such a miracle fluid?

    Is there an epoxy sufficiently heat resistant, etc so I could make a prototype?

    Should I put grooves in the bottom of the HS to increase surface area and to enhance flow characteristics?

    --
    Lost in space at an early age. Survived the vacuum. Now rebuilding castle in air.