Sim Icarus Boeing 777 Handmade Flight Deck

ShadowsMV writes "Three technology students finishing up their degrees at the DuPage Campus of DeVry University spent a term designing and building one of the most nifty flight simulators yet. Named the Sim Icarus Flight Deck, it accurately recreates the primary flight accessory controls of the Boeing 777, and interfaces directly with Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004. They have tons of pictures and lists of everything you need! Previous flight decks featured on slashdot include An awesome homebuilt and wideview with 13 Monitors And 9 PCs."

Comments

Most impressive

[r84x]

Judging by the photos alone, this is the most impressive homebrew sim I'veseen yet. Props to the editor to actually posting links to old sim articles, by the way, so we don't get 200 links to mod on this one...

Re:Most impressive

[roseblood]

Photos? As of 0130 Pacific this is what the website looks like to Firefox users:

Forbidden
Your client is not allowed to access the requested object.

Sheish, wonder if they treat IE users the same way.

DeVry University?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought this is a community college?

Re:DeVry University?

[scmason]

No, Devry is a nationwide 'chain college' specializing in tech degrees. Supposedly, their graduates are rather hirable.

Re:DeVry University?

[stox]

You are probably thinking of College of DuPage, which is a junior community college.

Re:DeVry University?

[Anonymous Coward]

It used to be an "institute" but got certification as an actual university a few years back. Not that it's an actual university.

Re:DeVry University?

[Catbeller]

YES, IT IS. Same accreditation as Northwestern. Done deal. Times change. A really real university.

Re:DeVry University?

[retro128]

I don't know man...The last story I heard about a DeFry grad was from a phone engineer who had to deal with one of them trying to punch down fiber into a type 110 panel. He kept retrying the punches so much that it shortend the run to the point where they had to pull it again.

Re:DeVry University?

[YukiKotetsu]

It all depends on the person. I went to DeVry and I was very hirable, and got a lot out of going there. Some of my classmates were complete idiots who after getting their degree in CIS still did not know what a variable was, if-else structure, and so on. They wasted 40K on school for a piece of paper but do not know a thing. Not much different from any other school I suspect.

Re:DeVry University?

[scmason]

See, I got my BS in CS at the University of Montana. There were brilliant people there but most were idiots. Since then I have worked with people from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, CMU etc, and again, most were idiots.

I always liked to say that my education was not defined by where I went to school, but what I did while I was there. I think that it depends on the individual, and Devry is probably like MOST schools: the resources are there if you want to take advantage of them.

The employer's responsibility is to tell the difference between the productive ones and the lazy ones. At any successful organization, they dont care if your from Harvard or Devry if you do your job and are productive. Give me a Devry graduate who is nimble and personable over a Harvard grad who is less productive any day.

Also: don't say that the general student at Harvard is smarter than the general student at Devry or University of Montana, lazy or not. That is NOT true. The only thing that getting into Harvard means is that someone had some influence. For cripes sake, didn't Bush go there?

!

Re:DeVry University?

[mink]

As a pround DeVry droupout (I couldnt borrow enough to keep going in my EET course). I have to say for every hireable person they show in some commercial there are 10K people who are not such sucess stories, probably about 1K out of those have normal sucess stories.
I know of 2 grads who did well/ok out of 10-20 people who went. A number could not finish for financial reasons and we all hated the BS DeVry was.
They lie to you to get you there, charge insane fees, and rape you in every way possible.
The Columbus Ohio campus made it impossible to see anyone useful in administration if you had an issue to discuss.
Frankly I am doing better for myself in the tech industry I went to DeVry for then I probably would have if I had somehow come up with the money to keep going.

On the bright side, it led me to my wonderful wife, some good friends and set up the circumstances for me to be earning way more then 2x the wages they claim a grad will make.

YMMV, but they are a bootm feeder of educational institutions. The character from the FOX TV show The PJs said it right "Hold on now. Not all of us graduated from DeVry." They prey on the people of any race who are not able to get into better schools. If they hadnt lied so much I'd be less bitter, and if they had treated students a little better I would have better things to say about how they run the place.

Re:DeVry University?

[mink]

I forgot to add, the last intern we hired from DeVry wound up stealing hardware from the company. Was escorted out by police.
Again YMMV, I know a few grads who I would trust with my life, but I have seen some ugly stuff as well.

Re:DeVry University?

[meme_police]

Devry is a flavor of the month certification mill only interested in keeping a minimum standard to turnover as many people a year as possible. Simple as that. Smart people buy equipment for less than the amount of tuition and self-study.

Re:DeVry University?

[scmason]

"Devry is a flavor of the month certification mill only interested in keeping a minimum standard to turnover as many people a year as possible."

Have you checked out the quality of state universities lately?

Cool

[Fls'Zen]

If only my dorm room was big enough...

Quickly! Call Vaterland Security!

[Anonymous Coward]

and have them arrested for building terrorist training tools!

Slashdot Flight Simulator 2005

[Anonymous Coward]

Experience the thrill of your server levitating from the heat of its own PSU exhaust as 100,000 Mozilla-using Slashdot geeks hit your image-laden site at once with network.http.max-connections-per-server set to 100!

Re:Slashdot Flight Simulator 2005

[NewbieProgrammerMan]

There's over 25 million of us, you insensitive clod!

Re:Slashdot Flight Simulator 2005

[Radar|TGS]

You know that we don't RTFA! 100,000 is a little high on the scale!

Sim?

[ackthpt]

Named the Sim Icarus Flight Deck, it accurately recreates the primary flight accessory controls of the Boeing 777, and interfaces directly with Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004.

They'll probably get sued over the name. Hopefully it'll find a home on Source Forge =)

In other news...XBox Firewire?

Re:Sim?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not their only problem with the name:
What were they thinking when they named a flight sim "Icarus", whose piloting career consisted of flying too close to the sun, melting his wax wings, and falling into the sea? Or is this a subtle reference to the quality of the M$ product that their sim rides on?

Re:Sim?

[ackthpt]

That's not their only problem with the name: What were they thinking when they named a flight sim "Icarus", whose piloting career consisted of flying too close to the sun, melting his wax wings, and falling into the sea? Or is this a subtle reference to the quality of the M$ product that their sim rides on?

Sit too long, too close to those CRT's under the table and you won't need to worry about a vasectomy.

Seminoma maybe...

Re:Sim?

[t0ny747]

They'll probably get sued over the name.

How can they get sued over the name?

In other news...XBox Firewire?

Thanks for the news on the xbox power cord, I'm going to order a new one even though I don't use it any more. The usb is pretty much dead, I used my xbox as a webcam server for more then 3 months. It could not handle that kind of use :). Now it says that I need to replug in the xbox controller every 5 mins. Any how lets take m$ down by ordering the replacement cables even if you dont use your xbox. Then you can go off and sell the cable for $1 or somthing.
Sorry for just typing random stuff... :P

finnally....

[TouchOfRed]

equality on airlines, everyone can read, write,... and execute.

Everything you need?

[Tackhead]

> Named the Sim Icarus Flight Deck, it accurately recreates the primary flight accessory controls of the Boeing 777, and interfaces directly with Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004. They have tons of pictures and lists of everything you need!

FDS Total =$1,479.00
PFC Total =$750.00
FL Total = $1,239.00
Hagstrom $190.00
Digikey/M$486.05
Home Depot = $390.80
Computer = $1,080.00
Software = $510.00
Brian Sign = $48.00
--
Total = $6,172.85

Heatproof wax = $priceless.

Re:Everything you need?

[spankey51]

Flight Instructor: $25/hour.
Aircraft rental: $125/hour.
Aircraft renter's insurance: $25/month
Student supplies and Examiner's fee: $500
Some nice Rayban Aviator glasses: $600
Total fixed-wing license cost: ~$6,172.85

Getting hammered at a frat party to later find yourself effing up a barrel roll and plowing a $96,000 Cessna Skylane through mom's back yard in a cartwheeling mass of burning 100 Octane low-lead Avgas and crumpled aircraft aluminum (aluminium... whatever) ...Priceless.

Yay.

[Anonymous Coward]

Cue the multitude of ignorant people complaining about how terrorists could use something like this to train more suicide bombers to fly planes. It's depressing that the supposed "dominant" state in the world today is so backward and fearful of technology at times. Stem cell research, nuclear power, et. al.

Re:Yay.

[TheGavster]

And here I thought that it took a red state hick farmer to have real skill at constructing a straw man ...

Re:Yay.

[Anonymous Coward]

The whole airplane thing was mostly a proof-of-concept strike, it wouldn't make much sense to use the same trick twice. However it did give the PTBs an excuse to pull all kinds of fascist shit.

Re:Yay.

[Anonymous Coward]

indeed... if misuse by unexpected persons is such an issue with this sort of thing, maybe the US might have thought twice about developing the hydrogen bomb? Or at least about letting the Soviet Union steal the entire program?

Re:Yay.

[drinkypoo]

But terrorists COULD use this thing to train more suicide bombers. They probably just don't have to, because they can just send them to school somewhere.

Re:Yay.

[Stephen Samuel]

Cue the multitude of ignorant people complaining about how terrorists could use something like this to train more suicide bombers to fly planes.

Ever heard the phrase "morbid humor"??

Re:Yay.

[Rostin]

And cue the other multitude of *anonymous* ignorant people to once again misidentify opposition to stem cell research with opposition to science.

Re:Yay.

[Anonymous Coward]

I could while away the hours
Molesting all the flowers
And slowly going insane
And my head, I'd be scratchin'
While my schemes were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain.

Re:Yay.

[Anonymous Coward]

Come on, every intelligent person can figure out for himself that those planes were flown by remote, computer-assisted control. Just take a look at the timelines, the weird trajectories, and the high accelerations. These are all consistent with one controller sequentially taking control of three planes, and not consistent with badly trained human pilots.

Re:Yay.

[Anonymous Coward]

They're the same thing.

I was Building a 757 and gave up lack of $.

[BrianHursey]

I reserched for a year I wanted to build one. I even got the software woking with 6 computers. But after the evaluation of the cost of building the quality sim that I wanted I concluded that it would coust me about 10-15 thosand dollers.

Re:I was Building a 757 and gave up lack of $.

[Anonymous Coward]

I even got the software woking with 6 computers.

Sorry to hear the sim fell through. Good to see you landed on your feet with a Chinese take-out joint. How's your pad thai?

Re:I was Building a 757 and gave up lack of $.

[Anonymous Coward]

Reserched? Woking? Coust? Dollers? Please tell me you're still in middle school; even your home page is riddled with grammatical errors. Better yet, please apply for the same I.T. jobs I'm applying for, it'll make me look really good...

Re:I was Building a 757 and gave up lack of $.

[BrianHursey]

Reserched? Woking? Coust? Dollers? Please tell me you're still in middle school; even your home page is riddled with grammatical errors. Better yet, please apply for the same I.T. jobs I'm applying for, it'll make me look really good...

I'm, dyslexic sorry I was not able to proof my post before I posted.... Normally I am able to do that but I was in a rush. I am sure that I will be able to beat you in people skills, and friendliness because it seams you have none of those.

Re:I was Building a 757 and gave up lack of $.

[Anonymous Coward]

So you are friendly and stupid? Hope that works out for you.

Re:I was Building a 757 and gave up lack of $.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, it worked out for A simple life ;)

Re:I was Building a 757 and gave up lack of $.

[BrianHursey]

I don't see how I am stupid. I am about to graduate form college with a BIT I already have an ASSIT in Software development. I acquired a job doing LAMP web application development for my school. I did all of this with three learning disabilities. I do not see how a few spelling errors makes me stupid. You, sir are a fool, and I am done talking to you. Now go back and your hole and get on topic.

Re:Another Proof...

[Solder Fumes]

Legal drinking age is 18 in Canada, I think that says it all.

better than keyboard

[Zapraki]

Somehow I think this does greater justice to the joy of flight than the typical USB joystick, or heaven forbid, playing Flight Sim with a keyboard & mouse.

Surprising yes, but I looked into a real cockpit once and they actually had these crazy looking controls. All those hours of Flight Sim for nothing! </joke>

Re:Another Proof...

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't suppose you've heard of, oh, I don't know...half of the robotics advancements in the past 50 years, the Canadarm, the CANDU reactors, or any of the other innovations that have been coming out of Canada for decades?

I'm guessing you're another unapologetically ignorant American, so let me relate a little story to you about the citizens in that great country of yours. I had a guy from Texas call a tech support line that I worked for; when I told him I lived in Canada, he called me a liar. He said that all the people "up there" live in igloos and don't have access to phones.

Speaking of the things we never hear of on Slashdot, how come stories about hillbillies from the south U.S. beating up black people and fucking their own cousins never get posted?

best line from the article:

[de1orean]

"Proof of concept came when we relocated the simulator from Dave's house to school. "

that killed me. :)

landing gear looks great

[swatthatfly]

But quite useless when windows comes to a crashing halt.

Re:landing gear looks great

[Anonymous Coward]

a crashing halt

Isn't one big advantage of a simulation that you can walk away from catastrophes such as this?

Re:landing gear looks great

[ScrewMaster]

Yes, and if they could manage to give a real 747 a reset button think how many lives could be saved.

Not to be picky...

[cyberfunk2]

But since when is "tons of photos" equal to 9 ?

Re:Not to be picky...

[swatthatfly]

more on the sidebar...

new standard

[Jafa]

Wow, it used to be that cocaine was god's way of telling you that you made too much money, according to Carlin.
J

Re:new standard

[alleycat0]

Robin Williams, not George Carlin, generated that line.

Icarus?

[Anonymous Coward]

Icarus crashed into the sea.
Hell of name for a flight simulator.

from wikipedia ...

the nearness of the blazing sun softened the wax which held the feathers together, and they came off. He fluttered with his arms, but no feathers remained to hold the air. While his mouth uttered cries to his father, it was submerged in the blue waters of the sea, which thenceforth was called by his name. His father cried, "Icarus, Icarus, where are you?" At last he saw the feathers floating on the water, and bitterly lamenting his own arts, he buried the body and called the land Icaria in memory of his child. Daedalus arrived safe in Sicily, where he built a temple to Apollo, and hung up his wings, an offering to the god.

wow

[Anonymous Coward]

that's DaBomb!

How about a handmade GE90?

[G4from128k]

I rather have a GE90 jet engine from a 777. At over 123,000 pounds of thrust, it would definitely make for some seriously fun game play.

Re:How about a handmade GE90?

[bitingduck]

and it would double as a nifty popcorn popper for burying your friends houses

Re:How about a handmade GE90?

[Anonymous Coward]

actually saw one of those things being trucked out of the propulsion systems group this evening. They are huge, even when sitting on a tractor trailer flat-bed. I couldn't tell which dash-model it was though.

Bzzzt. Wrong.

[Anonymous Coward]

Legal drinking age is 18 in Canada, I think that says it all.

No, that just shows you don't know what you're talking about : drinking age varies from Province to Province.

Re:Bzzzt. Wrong.

[Anonymous Coward]

What's a provance? Is that like a city?

Re:Bzzzt. Wrong.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, they're like states, but bigger. And better.

Re:Bzzzt. Wrong.

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that if I ever became a serial axe murderer, I'd make a list of victims. First would be people who mix up "affect" and "effect." Then would be those who say "Bzzzt. Wrong." Whenever I see "Bzzzt. Wrong." I imagine the writer's head, with a look of horror, perched on their keyboard. And I smile.

Re:Bzzzt. Wrong.

[Anonymous Coward]

A province is what every other country on the planet calls a state. I have no idea what a provance is though.

Looks Nice

[aktiveradio]

Very cool, but I didn't see any cup holders?

Re:Looks Nice

[RavenChild]

Take out the Flight Sim 2004 CD first.

Shine You Guys

[stoolpigeon]

trash DeVry all you want. My paycheck for being a developer converts to currency just the same as any of you with 'proper' degrees.

Props to these guys-- that is a nice project. Those of you slamming our school-- you know what you can do. I think DeVry comes in right behind Microsoft on the 'acceptable bashing' scale here at the dot.

Re:Shine You Guys

[Anonymous Coward]

Who exactly are you complaining to? I don't see anybody trashing DeVry.

Re:Shine You Guys

[Anonymous Coward]

Why yes, it does. Ciao!

Re:Shine You Guys

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, nobody trashed DeVry. It's been 20 minutes, and the only thread before yours said only good things. You're the only one who suggested your degree may be improper.

Re:Shine You Guys

[bondjamesbond]

So.......
you're saying that you went to Devry, or you don't have a degree??

Re:Shine You Guys

[Jherek Carnelian]

The problem with "technical" or trade schools is the lack of breadth.

The point of college is usually not about learning a trade, it is about exposure to a wide variety of ideas and knowledge with the intent of preparing the student to be a good citizen - with a sense of history and cultural understanding which should provide a solid point of reference for doing citizen-things like voting, donating to charities, sitting on a jury, etc. The kind of things that Harry Truman was talking about when he said, "Those who do not read and understand history are doomed to repeat it."

All that stuff you can learn on your own, and many do, but the vast majority of people won't -- that's why they go to college in the first place.

Re:Shine You Guys

[bondjamesbond]

Yah... Dude, no need to have a complex about where you went to school. Obviously, you're employed and doing OK. Now, ITT Tech, on the other hand..........

Re:Shine You Guys

[oirtemed]

A 'proper' degree teaches you a lot more than just how to do your vocational calling. An 'apprenticed developer' could come out with fine skills as well, but its apples vs oranges. I don't think anyone doubts that graduates of tech and voc schools arent skilled at what they do. But skilled and rounded are two different things.

Re:Shine You Guys

[Anonymous Coward]

sorry to burst your bubble, man, but i have never heard of DeVry......

Re:Shine You Guys

[KarmaBlackballed]

No need to trash it.

I went to a "real" university. My first boss after graduating was a graduate of DeVry. I learned a lot from him. Very smart dude. Not having those schools in this area at that time, that was my first encounter with the school in any way. I was impressed.

BTW - These 777 guys should consider putting together something for that new Make magazine. http://make.oreilly.com/

Re:Shine You Guys

[tricops]

Heh, after all the whining and mockery against DeVry I heard while a student there (from both internal and external sources), it comes as no surprise to me that someone would try to pre-empt that particular line of discussion.

Not that it really matters either way... I've never understood people's need to trash-talk other people/schools.

Re:Shine You Guys

[Lord_Dweomer]

I hope you know WHY we choose to bash the school. You see, aside from some of the most laughable ads in the history of advertising (which is the industry I'm in by the way, so I've seen a LOT of ads), they have an earned reputation of being a school for students who aren't the most successful, and who aren't "bright enough" to cut it at other schools.

It's a chain college. That and the fact that they have to advertise on tv drastically maims whatever credibility they might have as a school producing intelligent graduates.

So please, don't take the attacks as something against you personally, its all about the image your fine school has crafted for itself.

Re:Shine You Guys

[fm6]

I've never heard anybody trash DeVry. But I have to admit that I had assumed they were just another seedy unaccredited diploma mill. Not because of anything I actually knew about them. But because that's what their tacky little TV commercials manage to imply.

Re:Shine You Guys

[colmore]

I think community and trade colleges are great. It's ridiculous that everyone is expected to have a "traditional" degree. They're sometimes fun and interesting to obtain, but they don't have much to do with the real world. I certainly know a few people with degrees in practical things like medical technician from "no name" schools who make quite a bit more than a few other people I know with degrees in things like Philosophy from very very big name schools.

That said, you might want to hold off on getting defensive before insults have even been posted... looks a little insecure, ya know?

Re:Shine You Guys

[miltimj]

"exposure to a wide variety of ideas and knowledge with the intent of preparing the student to be a good citizen - with a sense of history and cultural understanding which should provide a solid point of reference for doing citizen-things like voting, donating to charities, sitting on a jury, etc."

Hmm... sounds like high school to me. I would hope I'd get a more advanced education in college than that necessary to vote, donate, and sit on a jury.

...Oh wait, I did.

Re:Shine You Guys

[bob65]

trash DeVry all you want. My paycheck for being a developer converts to currency just the same as any of you with 'proper' degrees.

I'm sure it does. Just don't kid yourself that you have the equivalent of a 'proper' degree (what is that, anyways?). Many people with no degrees at all earn more than those with degrees - so is your paycheck any measurement of how good your degree is?

Re:Shine You Guys

[GoodNicsTken]

Ok, there are laws preventing DeVry from doing some of the same advertising other public/private schools do. TV is one of the few avenues open to them. Personally, I think they should fund competitions and student organizations more than they do.

However, to say it's for kids that can't cut it is just crap. I was accepted at A&M an Texas Tech. I choose DeVry because I wanted to get done in 3 years instead of 5. My class started with 70 and there were 6 of us that graduated on time. It's a good program.

Still laughing? I'm 8 years out, working for a company every one of you would know, that gives me a new company car every year. Most of the people I work with have 10-25 years experience. Oh yea and last year I cleared $99,700.

What did your big name school that took you an additional 2 years (2 years you were not earning 40-60K and also not saving for retirement), that cost anywhere from 2-3 times a much make you?

Laugh all you want, I'm laughing all the way to the bank.

Re:Shine You Guys

[Misanthropy]

One thing you are missing is that many of the people who go to these schools are adult students who already have all that stuff, a lot are going for another more useful degree after getting a "traditional" education that didn't get them jobs or positions that they wanted.

Interestingly DeVry just bought my school (a medical school). We have a lot of second career types who the traditional med schools don't want. They prefer the fresh out of undergrad types.
I started out as a geek with a CS degree from a traditional four year college. Got tired of that, now I'm into doctoring.

Re:Shine You Guys

[Hard_Code]

And it still surprises me how many people with with 'proper' degrees still can't seem to tell their ass from their elbow, despite years of being led in very deep and enriching group discussions over shakespearian plays, and existential drivel with their listless bourgeois peers. Oh, but I guess they can be smug about how "rounded" they are. Unless you need specialized equipment or tutelage (and I'm not claiming all fields don't require this), most education can be done recreationally. Of all things, computer science can be done independently.

Re:Shine You Guys

[radish]

Still laughing? I'm 8 years out, working for a company every one of you would know, that gives me a new company car every year. Most of the people I work with have 10-25 years experience. Oh yea and last year I cleared $99,700.

What did your big name school that took you an additional 2 years (2 years you were not earning 40-60K and also not saving for retirement), that cost anywhere from 2-3 times a much make you?

Showing off about how much you earn is a bad idea. You'll always find out that you're not so well off after all...

Re:Shine You Guys

[Anonymous Coward]

When people start advertising their wages, what they're really saying is: "No Man will ever have to work for me."

'nuff said.

Re:Shine You Guys

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

But apparently you didn't learn enough Latin to know the meaning of "etc." Hint it does not mean, "end of list."

Re:Shine You Guys

[pyite]

There are several problems with DeVry. One is that it has a bad image. The second is that your options are somewhat limited. You can't do engineering, for instance, at DeVry. But then, I suppose that's not really what DeVry's meant for. A guy I work with is going to DeVry for telecommunications or something. It pains me to see the way he is learning things--the silly exams and homeworks that have zero application to the real world (which is the supposed target of DeVry, from what I understand).

If your goal in life is to learn a trade or a skill then there's nothing wrong with DeVry, just as there's nothing wrong with being a carpenter, a mason, or an electrician. However, if you want to learn how to think, you go to university.

Re:Shine You Guys

[cashman73]

My class started with 70 and there were 6 of us that graduated on time. It's a good program.

Your class started with 70 and only 8.57% of you managed to graduate on time?! And you call that a good program?! Wonder when/if the other 91.43% of your class graduated?!

From the statistics you've provided, it sounds like DeVry doesn't really match up too well against the rest of the "normal" universities in the country,...

Re:Shine You Guys

[covertlaw]

If you chose DeVry over A&M or TT, you definitely passed DeVry's entrance exams. Do you honestly expect us to believe that shit? Did you choose the $99,700 because six figures just sounded too unbelievable?

Sounds to me like someone didn't get into A&M or TT, and wound up going to DeVry in Dallas.

Re:Shine You Guys

[Rew190]

Of all things, computer science can be done independently.

Only if you believe that computer science = programming.

A degree from DeVry will not get you CS theory. I know a DeVry grad who is great at programming and is certainly better at programming than others I work with... when it comes to theories and paradigms and general design, he's not so hot.

A proper degree in CS doesn't merely teach a few programming language. Not to say DeVry sucks, but if you want to directly compare degrees/programs as to which will give you a better understanding of the discipline, then yes, a proper CS degree from a university is going to utterly trounce one from DeVry.

Re:Shine You Guys

[Anonymous Coward]

(Posting anonymous due to the fact that I'm relating my experience with a large fortune 100 company)

Only if you believe that computer science = programming.

A degree from DeVry will not get you CS theory.

Right, and most developer positions require programming, not CS theory. Of 6 interviews, all CS grads, all 5+ years of experience, I've yet to find once student who is a decent coder by even basic standards. And only 2 could give me a good explanation of OOP (and that IS CS theory!!!). CS theory is fun to learn, and can be learned anywhere. The university may give you a deeper understanding of CS theory, but it's not pracitcal enough for the vast majority of jobs out there. If you didn't know how to code before you went to school, you're probably not worth hiring when you get out (hence why 80%+ developers are bad).

The other problem with a CS degree is that it's insanely narrow. I'd rather have a student with some CS level math, a 100 level OOP course, and 300-400 level business and philosophy courses. If the kid is smart enough he'll do the rest.

Universities, like DeVry, are just institutions out to make money. The people who work for them get compensated greatly for evangelizing the importance of the self validating institution that is the university. I think many people can benefit from these institutions, as well as more vocational ones. But make no mistake, they're in it for the money, and if you can make money without 'em, fuck 'em. Kuz if you're not smart, and you don't know how to think before you get into it, your degree is going to be worthless because when you interview for tough jobs like the ones i hire for, my eyes will glaze over kuz you won't "get it" anyway.

Re:Shine You Guys

[Anonymous Coward]

To be fair, most college football games I'm seen have a comerical or so for the schools playing in the game.

Though I always thought it was something to say "hey, despite how much energy we put into sports, we *do* have a classroom or two around here somewhere..."

Re:Shine You Guys

[Anonymous Coward]

all the richest folk are dropouts.

what's that mean for you and me? drop out and play the lottery, or, get a degree. will your specific degree be en vogue tomorrow? who knows. but if you get a degree that says "lookey here: i can solve problems" then i'll bet you'll be a little bit more resistant to economic whims. bs in comp sci trumps mcse + years experience, because the former says you can learn, the latter says you can read.

Re:Shine You Guys

[Anonymous Coward]

who gives a shit about texas anyways

Re:Shine You Guys

[illerd]

compare einstein's income with bill gates'. cue mr show music.

Re:Shine You Guys

[Anonymous Coward]

savor it. they won't be under you for long.

Re:Shine You Guys

[rhuntley12]

Oh, here I thought you were talking about ITT Tech. I learned my lesson there.

Re:Shine You Guys

[SaltLord]

"Showing off about how much you earn is a bad idea. You'll always find out that you're not so well off after all"

I agree.. $100.000 years wages aren't anything to gloat about.. Thats like medium wages for some of us europeans..

Re:Shine You Guys

[cbqwinner]

Ah yes we should rate schools on their graduation rate...

They have the balls to get rid of students along the way. Why should they keep students on who can't cut it? Go to a proper university and people skate by just because they're paying so huge sums of money, the uni feels obligated to pass them along.

Re:Shine You Guys

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess it takes more than 5 years because I've seen 3 title changes and a 152% salary increase in that time. Right now I enjoy a position many people would be overjoyed to retire from and I get paid real overtime. I'll be able to retire before I'm 45 and you'll still be paying off student loans.

Re:Shine You Guys

[OhPlz]

It's not impossible. I was over six figures with a mere associate's degree from a local community college. I took a hit last year when the company I was with for nine years went under but I'm not far off from that mark now either.

It's not so much where you went to school or for how long, it's how well the interviewing process goes and how much knowledge and ability you can convey to those interviewing you.

I'm finishing a four year degree now at night but more so out of boredom than necessity.

Re:Shine You Guys

[GoodNicsTken]

There's always somebody that makes more then you or I, unless your Bill Gates. I'm simply pointing out in my case DeVry has worked extremely well, and I'm over 2x the average income. I konw there are small business owners that make that much in a month. I hope to be one of thoes some day.

Re:Shine You Guys

[GoodNicsTken]

I can't speak for what they currently offer, but I did engineering. EET or Electrical Engineering Technology. We did all the math classes, worked several labs with PLDs, and even worked with TI's DLP chips. (new at the time)

They have a Electronics Technician program that takes 3 trimesters, and yes that's easy to get into, a lot of the students are not that bright, and many of them become line techs for the phone companies.

"However, if you want to learn how to think, you go to university."

Is it that University degree that has left you with such an open mind? You must be a really arrogant SOB. Do you believe carpenters, plumbers, you know all thoes trade guys are idiots incapable of thinking, as you put it? You have a lot to learn.

Re:Shine You Guys

[GoodNicsTken]

Most of the students couldn't cut it and dropped out. That was probably 80%. The other 10% failed classes, had to take them again, and graduated later.

If you could buy a degree, or it was just easy, then 80% would make it. The fact is, DeVry is a good school, with a bad rap due to the stupid TV commercials.

Re:Shine You Guys

[GoodNicsTken]

Hey, I don't know you, so why would I care if you believe me or not? Yes, I had near perfect scores on DeVry exams. Yes, I was accepted at thoes schools, as my SAT's were in the high 1200s. Not MIT material, but I could have gone to most schools. The fact that I had to give up a good job that paid $12/hour, move out of town, and spend 5 years getting the degree made the decision for me. I stayed at home, took the $15K mom had for me and borrowed another $15K. I lived at home for a while to save money. That's a lot cheaper than TT or A&M, and I paid my student loans off 3 years ago. Instead of getting drunk for 2 years, I went to deVry. I do think I missed out on the university lifestile, but I'm ok with that. At DeVry they have trimesters, so you go year rowund with 2-3 weeks break between each trimester. That got me finished 2 years earlier and put me into a 50K job right out of school. If I had gone to a university, I'd be a college student with no experience getting out at the start of one of the worst recessions in history. Sounds to me like you went to University, and are pissed because your stuck in some 60K IT job, and you still have 40K to go on thoes student loans.

Re:Shine You Guys

[Anonymous Coward]

$100,000 a year is about double what the average working class american takes in anually in income... however, in some markets $100,000 a year is bottom feeding for white collar work like computers.. in the midwest however 100k/yr is pretty much senior staff wages ;) in some ways parts of the midwest resemble india almost, in fact the midwest was where many call centers were relocated to find cheaper labor prior to the whole move to india fad. Where else in america could you get 1000+ applications for a job advertising $7 an hour and benefits? ;)

Re:Shine You Guys

[Anonymous Coward]

In my experinece it's always a difference of focus. Technical school such as DeVry will teach you how to use an instrument while a university will tech you why you use an instrument. Technical program graduates are typically much more profecient with a specific tool, but university graduates may be able to improvise and use an inappropriate instrument to get usable ballpark figures.

Re:Shine You Guys

[pyite]

I can't speak for what they currently offer, but I did engineering. EET or Electrical Engineering Technology. We did all the math classes, worked several labs with PLDs, and even worked with TI's DLP chips. (new at the time)

Electrical Engineering Technology is not the same as Electrical Engineering. They are different ABET accreditations for a reason. It's also much harder, if not impossible, to sit for the PE exam if you don't have an engineering degree (not engineering technology).

Is it that University degree that has left you with such an open mind? You must be a really arrogant SOB. Do you believe carpenters, plumbers, you know all thoes trade guys are idiots incapable of thinking, as you put it? You have a lot to learn.

If you feel the need to twist my words, fine. I know plenty of craftsmen, as I do hands on construction work myself. Most of them are quite adept at solving problems, which is more thinking than anything else. However, that thinking ability takes quite a long time to build up. Going to a university basically compresses that into a few short years. The goal of my post wasn't to insult anyone, but to point out differences between a technical school and a university.

Re:Shine You Guys

[GoodNicsTken]

I would agree they are not the same degree, but to say I couldn't have gone for my PE exam is just wrong. There are plenty of EE grads that couldn't pass the PE exam that went to a traditional university. I'm saying it's the individual far more than the type of school.

"Going to a university basically compresses that into a few short years."

Ok, and DeVry did the same for me in an even shorter time by not taking summers off and going year round. Others can do it on there own just by going to a public library.

You may not intend to insult anyone, but the notion that learning to think can only occur at a formal university is foolish.

Look at Edison, he had 3 months of "formal" schooling. His work is the basis for much of what the universities teach today.

Edison once interviewed a top candidate from a university for a position in his Menlo park office. Edison held up a vase in the shape of a lightbulb and asked the man, what's the volume of this container?

The man measured it, worked for many hours on his calculations. In the end he had it, and informed Edison of the answer. Eidson looked at him, picked up the bulb, walked over to the sink, filled it with water, poured it into a measured beaker, and said, "yes, that's about right, thank you for comming."

Now, tell me, who had really learned to "Think" Edison or the college student?

Re:Shine You Guys

[mink]

There are a lot of good and bad reasons to bash DeVry.
Some people are doing it for either or both.
You will not I tend to bash the school and how it is run, not so much the students (one intern specifically).
I had some awesome teachers there who really cared about the students and the subject they were teaching. Others were lets just say about as close to opposite of those good teachers you could get

Re:Shine You Guys

[mink]

The sky high attrition rates of DeVry are NOT a good thing. Some courses will have a certain level of attrition but the rate I ahve seen , you quote, and what I still hear as the norm are not sane.

Re:Shine You Guys

[Lord_Dweomer]

"What did your big name school that took you an additional 2 years (2 years you were not earning 40-60K and also not saving for retirement), that cost anywhere from 2-3 times a much make you?"

This question is a troll. Money does not make your worth. Period.

However, since you want to just make blanket assumptions about me, let me explain something to you.

I am finishing up my last year at a 4 year art school generally considered to be one of the top ones in the country (MCAD). I'm in advertising/marketing, and my program has the same "real world" focus that many of these schools like DeVry have. We pull in top industry leaders to teach classes (some of the founders of VERY famous ad agencies), and we work on real projects with real clients. Its great. I'm not knocking that in the least bit.

However, we don't advertise on tv. Its always been my impression that the school can't be that great if they have to advertise on tv.

And frankly, 6 out of 70 graduating is shit. That really says a lot about the quality of students that your school pulls in.

Re:Shine You Guys

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a reason to trash DeVry. DeVry's ads basically scream "diploma mill". Like any school, there are smart people and dumb people. Obviously, not everyone can be of the "smart" variety. I've seen students from DeVry and many of them are not the self-starter, original thinkers that some other schools have, but that doesn't mean that they can't do their job. However, a good number of them can only do the job that's been laid out for them and not much else.

I've also seen graduates of Ivy League and "regular" Univerities. There are many non-original thinkers out there on a free ride. I doubt that many of the "regular" college grads are rounded especially when most of the students are cramming for tests and not retaining information. Many of these students are just like the stereotyped DeVry students. They might as well have gone to DeVry.

AP classes at many high schools are a sham. The grade inflation from AP classes is how some students got in those Ivy League schools. I don't know about anyone else, but high school was boring because it was a waste of time and a constant rehash of information. I sat in the back and read or finished the hour-long test in half the time and read. My high school had no AP classes in Math and Sciences, just in literature and English (subjects I had little interest in or I would have had a huge amount of grade inflation as well). There's a whole lot of cheaters in those AP classes too who then go on to be cheaters in college as well.

Re:Shine You Guys

[GoodNicsTken]

When did I make assumptions about you? This is your first reply.

I actually agree, your school sounds good and a step above most universities. DeVry also focuses on hiring instructors who have been out in the industry. It helps cut down the inbreeding that goes on at so many schools.

I also didn't say anything about someone's worth being tied to how much money they make. It's simply another benefit you get by going to a school like DeVry insteady of a Uniersity.

With a nic like Lord_Dweomer I'm surprised you overlooked that.

Re:Shine You Guys

[pyite]

I would agree they are not the same degree, but to say I couldn't have gone for my PE exam is just wrong. There are plenty of EE grads that couldn't pass the PE exam that went to a traditional university. I'm saying it's the individual far more than the type of school.

I'm not saying you can't pass it. I'm saying you might not be allowed to take it. It varies from state to state. Some states do not allow those without degrees in engineering to take the test.

You may not intend to insult anyone, but the notion that learning to think can only occur at a formal university is foolish.

Once again, I'm not saying that learning can only occur at a university. Many people go to university and come out dumber than when they go in. It's all about what you make of it. With that said, going to a university affords you the most opportunity to do your learning if you are so inclined. You may think I'm trying to be an elitist, but to be perfectly honest, there are plenty of things wrong with the education system. It's still all a game when it comes down to it. If I didn't want to go to school for engineering, I probably would have become a mechanic. Engineering isn't something you can just "pick up." Alas, I decided to go and I'm glad for it. I didn't appreciate schooling until I actually started being challenged in college.

Re:Shine You Guys

[tricops]

Oh, I won't argue that. I had my share of good instructors and my share of useless/incompetent ones as well. There are certainly factors which are valid complaints about it vs a traditional school, but a lot of the complaints I've heard are hardly restricted to instruction at DeVry. Complaints about useless professors, management which keeps them around, instructors' teaching styles or lack thereof, etc etc etc.... I've heard similar from friends who went to University of Calgary. I think a lot of it is just inherent ascpect of schooling in general. That said, I do wish I'd had an experience that was more a mix of DeVry and UofC. The course load at DeVry didn't cover nearly as wide of breadth as I would have liked to have, though I'm sure we spent more time in specific areas.

Re:Shine You Guys

[tricops]

Blah, my experience with "industry experience" wasn't an entirely positive. Sure, some of them knew their stuff... the profession/industry anyway. Unfortunately, some of those had no clue whatsoever how to teach, which made for a rather painful experience - not to mention a waste of many students time and money.

Re:Shine You Guys

[Dahamma]

Still laughing? I'm 8 years out, working for a company every one of you would know, that gives me a new company car every year. Most of the people I work with have 10-25 years experience. Oh yea and last year I cleared $99,700.

What did your big name school that took you an additional 2 years (2 years you were not earning 40-60K and also not saving for retirement), that cost anywhere from 2-3 times a much make you?

Humble?

Their admin must be a complete noob.

[glwtta]

777 seems like a very insecure way to chmod a Boeing.

Re:Their admin must be a complete noob.

[gkwok]

Yes, that's just plane dumb. <ba-dum>

Re:Their admin must be a complete noob.

[f0dder]

Weird if you think abou it.

Airbus is taking the Hummer route and making the SUV's of airplanes, it can't land at most airports w/o million dollar renovations.

Boeing is taking the Toyota route and making the Prius of airplanes, longer range (?and better fuel economy?).

/Does this make Airbus evil?

Re:Their admin must be a complete noob.

[dnixon112]

No because the gas mileage per passenger is lower on the airbus "SUV".

Re:Their admin must be a complete noob.

[Yakman]

Boeing is taking the Toyota route and making the Prius of airplanes, longer range (?and better fuel economy?).

Actually the 777-200LR is more expensive to operate than the A380 (per passenger). Tickets on a 777-200LR flight will probably be more expensive than on a "regular" flight, however they're betting on the fact that some people will prefer to pay extra to avoid a stopover.

For example this plane would be able to do London-Sydney in one hop (Note that it won't be able to do Sydney-London though, I read, because of headwinds). Although this will mean approximately 20 hours in the air on a single flight, I think i'd rather the stop over (nearly) half-way in SE Asia.

Re:Their admin must be a complete noob.

[f0dder]

How does more expensive tickets translate to higher operating cost?

Seems like the opposite, it'd make airlines more profitable.

Re:Their admin must be a complete noob.

[gabbarbhai]

The other way round. Longer non-stop flight means they have to burn fuel to lug the extra fuel. Besides, 20hrs of flight would be a pain in the ass. Hell, with the service in economy class these days, even a 3 hr flight gets to be a royal pain.

Re:Their admin must be a complete noob.

[f0dder]

This article is a crackup. Makes a couple of good jabs at us Yanks.. but he seems to think (do google for Airbus and you see lots of uncomfortable references to it being a white elephant) that this thing may not be all roses.
White Elephant

• Plainly this is idiotic. It would be much easier and cheaper to build them in France but politically this would be no good at all because the Airbus is intended to show how European co-operation can work. We do the wings and the engines, the French put everything together, the Germans finish everything off and the Spanish . . . actually, I don't know what the Spanish do, apart from gatecrash the launch party and lisp.
  
• That is presuming you got past the check-in. I guess you have all experienced the ludicrous queues that build up now. Well, imagine how long they are going to be when there are half a dozen A380s scheduled to depart within 15 minutes of one another. With seating for 550 on each one that is 3,300 people to be interrogated, 3,300 suitcases to be loaded, 3,300 pieces of hand luggage to be x-rayed and 3,300 pairs of shoes to be examined.
  
  Do you think that Virgin or Emirates will spend the money that they have saved on fuel by employing more check-in staff? I doubt it. As a result you will need to arrive at the terminal 3,300 hours before take-off. Then there is the flight itself to worry about.
  
• Yes, at the moment, despite much plastic and carbon fibre in its construction, the A380 is four tons overweight, but when the 747 was rolled out in the 1960s that was 50 tons overweight. So let's not get too worried. They could save four tons by simply removing one American passenger.
  
• Airbus made sure that its launch video featured on-board gyms and bars. There were big squidgy double beds and probably a polo lawn or two. But the reality is that airlines will fill the entire fuselage with seats they've nicked from a primary school to wedge the passengers in like veal.
  
  In other words, being on board the A380 will be exactly the same as being on board any other jet liner.
  
  
• This brings me to the final point. You see, the cruising speed of the A380 is Mach 0.85 (647mph), which is pretty good for something with the aerodynamic properties of a wheelie bin and engines that run on mineral water. But the 747 cruises at Mach 0.855 (651mph). This means that the 747 gets you there faster and means that you spend less time with your face wedged in an American's armpit.
  
  On that basis you can marvel at how Airbus has jumped through political hoops and climbed technical mountains to bring the world its shareholder friendly A380. But you are better off going in a Boeing.
  

Re:Their admin must be a complete noob.

[Richard_at_work]

I think I shall answer a few of your points.

• Its actually cheaper than you think to spread the build out over a number of countries - bare in mind that Airbus is not a public/government owned company, and therefor it cant just waste money in the name of cooperation. You get the parts built where its cheapest, and you ship them. This way you dont have to build one giant construction plant, you only have to build an assembly plant. Boeing also do this for the 777 and the 787 - prefabbed parts are made all over the world and shipped to Boeings assembly plants in the US.
• The current planned method of bookin, embarkation and debarkation for a A380 is to treat it as two seperate aircraft - one for the upper deck, one for the lower deck. That way you just have the equivilent of less than two 767s being booked in at the same time, which any airport currently handles. The same goes for baggage, security checks and anything else. And since airlines pay for checkin space based on amount of time used, I think you will find a lot of airlines employing more staff for A380 checkins.
• The A380 was five tonnes over target build weight at launch - but that wont matter as its not over the contract weight agreed with airlines, and that is the figure that people have been using to calculate efficiency etc. Airbus hope to lose this 5t for production aircraft by using more composites in the construction, and lighter cabin fixtures.
• All launch airlines plans for the aircraft keep the plane in a twin aisle 2-4-2 configuration for standard passengers, which gives each passenger as much as 20% more space in most cases, due to the width of the A380-800. There will also be bars and rest areas on most A380s, on the base deck below the lower deck - but you wont see the lavish interiors that the promotional shots show (I dont see this as an issue, the same had been done for the 747 as well).
• As for the speed arguement with 4mph between them, do the math. On a 12 hour flight, the 747 will only be 48miles ahead of the A380 if both went flat out without any delays. The A380 would make this distance up less than a minute. With the extra space you have on the A380, you should arrive at pretty much the same time as the 747 and you would have been more comfortable on the way.

All of that coupled with the fact that its quieter, more fuel efficient and greater comfortwise, I think that I would rather go in a A380, if its all the same with you :)

Re:Their admin must be a complete noob.

[saider]

No because the gas mileage per passenger is lower on the airbus "SUV".

But only on routes that can fill the plane. Here in the US, we are trying to get away from the hub-and-spoke system and more towards direct flight. For this system, more smaller aircraft are needed.

Re:Their admin must be a complete noob.

[tlhIngan]

For example this plane would be able to do London-Sydney in one hop (Note that it won't be able to do Sydney-London though, I read, because of headwinds). Although this will mean approximately 20 hours in the air on a single flight, I think i'd rather the stop over (nearly) half-way in SE Asia.

Partly true. OTOH, it means more airlines can offer more direct routes without stopping over in the US (remember, nowadays if you're going to land in the US, even for just a stopover where you don't leave the airport, you *must* have a visa (except for a few countries)). Sometimes the extra cost of a plane ticket is peanuts compared to the hassles of having to land on US soil and arrange visas and stuff. There already are a number of airlines that rerouted to avoid landing in the US because of this. And yes, traditional stopover airports are complaining about it because they don't get all the fees associated with the stopover (landing, terminal, fuel, etc).

OTOH, the 777 does have the advantage that it can use any airport equipped to handle 747s (though, if you could design, 777 support would expedite matters). The Airbus A380 requires a larger terminal and a larger runway, leading to only a few airports being able to land it. (It sounds exactly like backwards compatibility in software...).

Another one...

[jskiff]

Impressive, but I'm even more impressed with this homebuilt 747-400 simulator.

Flight Deck Solutions

[BrianHursey]

You can buy to scale high quality cockpit paneling at http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/ When I was reserching to build my cockpit. I found this to be the best solution for supplies.

Re:Another Proof...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm guessing you're another unapologetically ignorant American

Nah, he's a wannabe

Imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn.. imagine how good these guys would be at Halo if they didn't waste their time building that contraption? Imagine all the frivolous sports stats they could have amassed instead, had they elected to prop themselves in front of ESPN?

Instead these guys pushed the limits of their imagination and resourcefulness. Thanks for reaffirming that the younger generation isn't all a bunch of brain dead couch potatoes.

Re:Imagine

[jbordall]

C'mon man, it's not like they cured cancer! I remember back in the day doing scientific research with the computing power afforded me. Back then, the only accolade you could expect was from your peers on Usenet and a diploma. Sounds to me they're just building a bigger, better couch on which to veg.

Manufacturing ?

[cyberfunk2]

I'm glad this got posted.. now hopefully some enterprising company will hire these guys. It looks like they did a real good job of something pretty hard, skunkworks style.

If I was an employer I'd wanna have them working for me.

Re:Manufacturing ?

[strikethree]

are there any companies left in america that would need them?

strike

Re:Manufacturing ?

[Anonymous Coward]

> are there any companies left in america that would need them?

Scaled Composites?

Airbus confirms it...

[Anonymous Coward]

Boeing is dead ;)

Re:Simulation Technology & China

[agraupe]

I'm not sure if this is sarcastic or what, but I'm guessing that the flight characteristics of a Boeing 777 are significantly different from that of a MiG, much like the handling of a semi-trailer is different from that of a Porsche Boxster. Not to mention, given the Chinese advantage in being able to simulate airplanes that they own, $6000 would probably get them a rather nice MiG simulator on their own.

3D idea for this setup

[boomgopher]

You know what would be cool is to:

Rig up a dual projector setup in front of this sim
Have the projected images overlap one another
Place a polarizing filter over each projector
Adjust each filter to be 90 degrees out of phase with the other

Slap on some cheap 3D glasses, and tada, 3D flight simulator.

(I think) Anyone know if this would this work? I've always wanted to try this.

Re:3D idea for this setup

[Kenja]

Can do it with one screen using field sequential stereoscopic images and a polarized LCD over the projector. Otherwise you would need a stereo multiplexor to split the signal into a right and left image for the two projectors. No matter what you would need a video card that supported a steroscopic mode and a flight sim that had full z depth queuing.

Re:3D idea for this setup

[Sebastian Jansson]

You'll still have one problem left: Focus. That's the hardest to overcome problem with 3D emulating. Your idea should give very cool results, but they will feel a bit wrong.

Re:3D idea for this setup

[Da Twink Daddy]

You'd still lack the accelerations needed to make the flight real. For example, if you turned the sim-plane upside down [1], you wouldn't fall out of your seat, or even be pressed against your seat belt.

[1] I'm not even sure if you can turn a 777 upside-down.

Re:3D idea for this setup

[boomgopher]

No actually I meant something similar to the 13 monitor setup mentioned in the summary, i.e. using WideView software to run the 2 projectors separately. Difference being the 2 views would look at the same point, but their origins would be offset slightly to the left and right.

Re:3D idea for this setup

[drxray]

When you're flying a plane, stuff is pretty far away. I don't think your eyes actually get any parallax on the ground when it's a kilometre away, so both projectors end up displaying the same thing.

A back of the envelope calculation gives 0.004 degrees difference in angle between your two lines of sight at 1 km, or 16 arcseconds. Your eye's resolution (they are pretty much diffraction-limited, AFAIK) is something like twice that, so you'd only get any kind of 3d effect on stuff within ~500metres - probably less. (This is assuming your projectors aren't the limiting factor in resolution.) So, it would be helpful for landing, but pretty useless mid-flight. On the other hand, it would be a brilliant setup for fragging!

Re:3D idea for this setup

[_Potter_PLNU_]

If they can turn barrel roll a 707, and 737 I'm sure they can turn a 777 upside down. Those wings go through massive stress testing.

The real simulators they use to train pilots lack acceleration. I've used one before, and let me tell you it's a little disorienting taxing down the runway. Your brain says you're moving and turning on the taxiway but your body says your sitting still. Kind of like motion sickness but not that bad.

Re:3D idea for this setup

[berck]

A barrel roll is a 1-G maneuver.

You haven't been in one of the fancy new full-motion simulators. From everyone I've talked to who's flown one, it's easy to forget you're not in a plane.

Re:3D idea for this setup

[ScrewMaster]

Might work ... but I've always found that the nausea and vomiting involved interferes with my enjoyment of the simulation.

Re:3D idea for this setup

[Rolker]

This setup does work. We have such a system at work so we can show stereo stuff to a large audience with cheap polarized glasses. (Instead of more expensive LCD glasses).

The trick is to have a videocard that supports clone mode stereo, such as a Quadro card, and software that supports stereo.

Re:3D idea for this setup

[G-funk]

Don't modern projectors work by shining a white light through a (polarizing) LCD? Hence a rotated polarizing filter would block all the light? I guess you could rotate one of the projectors :)

Re:3D idea for this setup

[madaxe42]

Or you run the two projecters off two separate boxes, off two separate flight sims, and have one virtual plane fly slightly to one side of the other.

Re:3D idea for this setup

[Garak]

Can anyone confirm this? Got a link?

I gota try this, getting two projecters at the same time from school might be tricky, and then there is finding some polarized glasses. They might have some filters in the physics lab...

For a cheap source I think I might just use a pair of these little sony eyecam webcam's that I'm using on my thesis. See how 3d telerobotics works...

Re:3D idea for this setup

[bcmm]

a video card that supported a steroscopic mode

All you need is to be able to set up one view to be from a slightly different position...
Can you do this with MSFS?

Re:3D idea for this setup

[bcmm]

Or you could set up exaggerated stereo, as if your eyes were 10 meters apart or something. You would get the sensation of being in a miniature landscape though...

This reminds me of a really crap 3D show I saw at Jodrell Bank (a big radio telescope in the UK - some of your seti@home data comes from there. They have a visitors centre). They showed simulated images of Mars seen from orbit, with a 3D effect. According to them, either the astronaut's eyes would be thousands of kilometres apart, or Mars is the size of a small car...
They had a jerky frame rate too...

Hey!

[xeon4life]

B-b-but it aides the terrorists!!!1!1one

what you really wanna see

[istartedi]

is this full-sized image of the completed project

Pretty cool, but I wouldn't want to be the copilot. :)

Re:what you really wanna see

[peterprior]

Try this mirrordot image :)

Nice

[Anonymous Coward]

Having been inside the flight deck of a triple 7 a few times, i'd say this buildup is looking fairly realistic... wonder if he's gonna put in the overhead control panels as well

I would rather have a [BLANK] Cockpit

[matthewcharlesgoeden]

X-Wing

definitely, an X-Wing!!
how much fun can a 777 be when compared to an X-Wing?

Re:I would rather have a [BLANK] Cockpit

[Anonymous Coward]

You said cockpit... heheheh...ehehehe

Long live Beavis and Butthead!!!!!!!!!!

FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!

Yes but

[einhverfr]

How much beeswax and bird feathers were required for the wings? ;-)

Re:Yes but

[r84x]

They haven't built them yet, they area waiting for Microsoft WaxFeathers 4.0 to come out, since they are using MSFT Flight Sim, and it's incompatible with regular wax.

Re:Yes but

[einhverfr]

They haven't built them yet, they area waiting for Microsoft WaxFeathers 4.0 to come out, since they are using MSFT Flight Sim, and it's incompatible with regular wax.

Yes, and unlike the standards-compliant version, it won't melt when you get to close to the solar globe. However, it will, if you get too close to the Sun.

Re:Yes but

[Grab]

"Icarus". Too relevant a name when a zillion web browsers melt the crap out of the server...

Grab.

Nice...

[Anonymous Coward]

Has the NSA/FBI/CIA paid them a visit yet?

inspiring..

[thanew]

after seeing what nascar drivers do, and seeing this (granted they are two different things, but essentially the same), this inspires me to recreate the interior of a car, like those cheaply made ones in the arcade.. like that f355 challenge game, for the release of gran turismo 4 next week

Re:inspiring..

[CoderJoe]

You should see a NASCAR Silicon Motor Speedway setup. Each car has 6 computers (one for control and sound, 5 for video output), and is hydrolicly or pneumaticly motion controlled to give you

• some

of the feel of driving around the track.

I promise...

[jpellino]

... to dope slap the next person I hear making a crack about DeVry.

Re:I promise...

[Anonymous Coward]

... to dope slap the next person I hear making a crack about DeVry.

...and then you will find yourself on the ground in pain.

Anyway, along with these guys, the ONLY other notable Devry student is David Crane of Pitfall fame. Considering that they have an entire chain of campuses to work with, that's pretty sad.

Re:I promise...

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot the guy who invented Teddy Ruxpin the talking teddy bear.

M$ Flight sim?!

[iluvcapra]

and interfaces directly with Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004

Somebody buy these guys a copy of X-Plane!. If not for the better environments and the fully customizable aircraft, then at least for the fact that the entire simulation can be controlled remotely over UDP.

X-Plane

[Anonymous Coward]

Why didn't they use X-Plane as the flight simulator??

Re:X-Plane

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not as good. Just not as capable.

Re:X-Plane

[davids-world.com]

X-Plane seems way more realistic, and it's very customizable. However, traditionally, it seems that MS Flightsim used to be easier to hack. How, I don't know if that still holds true, given that X-Plane supports plugins and is available with a specific motion platform, which even makes it suitable for professional training towards some commercial rating.

Re:X-Plane

[HeghmoH]

X-Plane can be made to send pretty much any data in the simulator through UDP packets, and it can accept pretty much any commands the user can give (and then some) via UDP. For whatever bits the UDP interface misses, plugins can take over, but I don't even think you'd need to go that far for something like a motion platform or custom hardware controls. I dunno how you get easier to hack than that.

But why not the 7E7?

[LWATCDR]

I mean really why not the sim the new 787 aka the 7E7. I mean you can fly the real 777.

Re:But why not the 7E7?

[Gogo Dodo]

Kind of hard to sim something that doesn't exist yet. Unless you're Boeing.

You would? I'd be worried about them...

[sserendipity]

being distracted by silly hobbies

Re:You would? I'd be worried about them...

[cyberfunk2]

Just do what google does: encourage their silly hobbies for a set period of time during their work responsibilties.

Wrong

[JediTrainer]

Legal drinking age is 18 in Canada, I think that says it all.

You are wrong, sir. Legal drinking age is 18 only in Quebec. In the rest of Canada it is 19. You can drive, vote and get married by 18, but you cannot drink (at least legally you can't).

Re:Wrong

[turboflux]

You are also wrong. The drinking age is 18 in Alberta as well.

Re:Wrong

[kchoboter]

Actually you are wrong.

The legal drinking age is 18 in Manitoba, Alberta and Quebec! Everywhere else its 19.

Re:Wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

what the hell kind of country would let so many of it's citizens go ignorant like this. God bless Elizabeth Dole and her uniformity-of-drinking-age crusade.

their permissions are wrong!

[MyKarmaSucksEggs]

A Boeing 777? So that's how terrorists could get in it so easily. They should really make it a Boeing 764.

Flight Attendants

[Anonymous Coward]

Where are they?

Re:Flight Attendants

[Anonymous Coward]

Preparing doors for arrival and cross-check, of course.

Great!

[fm6]

Now I know what to get John Travolta for his birthday!

FFS, use something like Flickr to host photos

[Kris_J]

Forbidden
Your client is not allowed to access the requested object.

Better to host all your photos somewhere big enough to cope with a Slashdotting. We're pretty much back to the point in the .com bubble where you don't need a personal website, just a bunch of accounts on free or cheap specialised hosting services.

Does anyone have a mirror?

Re:FFS, use something like Flickr to host photos

[eric2hill]

The magic of nyud.net :)

Re:FFS, use something like Flickr to host photos

[Anonymous Coward]

and that is one of the dumbest most ignorant suggestions I've heard in a long time. Why the fuck should everyone post their pictures on a website that can withstand slashdotting? That is absolutely rediculous to expect the world to accomodate an irresponsible website that doesn't have a clue about the damage it causes to people's pocketbooks and businesses when they link directly to pages without using caches.

Re:FFS, use something like Flickr to host photos

[mingot]

Why would you use ,8,1 if it was not an autoloading program?

Re:FFS, use something like Flickr to host photos

[eric2hill]

'cause it's been 15 years and I can't remember what I did last week... :)

Another one bites the dust

[BlkSprk]

Slashdot strikes again... and they're down.

Mirror please?

[Stephen Samuel]

Did anybody manage to grab a mirror of the article (and preferrably pictures) before they shut down the page?

Re:Another Proof...

[blahtree]

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/13/122523 8&tid=126&tid=146
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/02/27/173521 8&tid=184
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/11/0 6/169247&tid=160&tid=14
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/06/1 2/0156220&tid=126&tid=14
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/06/025 7239&tid=111&tid=146&tid=218

There is stuff from Canadian universities on slashdot all the time.

chicks

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll bet you can get a lot of babes with one of these. They love a guy with a big deck.

Wow!

[Ritchie70]

A company I worked for in '90 - '92 or so came real close to going out of business doing somewhat less than this for Delta for the MD-11. DOS 386-SX computers driving the displays, a mighty SCO 486-25 for all the flight sim, and z-80's running all the switches and blinken-lights. On, the the aircraft flight simulator? Paid BAE to deliver Flight Simulator ported from ASM to C.

Electronic Flight Bag?

[Izaak]

The big question is, does it include an Electronic Flight Bag that runs the Linux operating system as described in this Aviation Today article?

Banned?

[ananegg]

Weren't this thing (mostly) Banned by the Government after 9/11?

2 easy

[Anonymous Coward]

2 easy

Bzzzt. Wrong. Bzzzt Bzzt Bzzzt

[Anonymous Coward]

Your juvenile rhetorical affects do not effect me or my affects.

Forbidden...

[EtherAlchemist]

Forbidden

Your client is not allowed to access the requested object.

S'okay, I didn't want to look at your pictures any damn way.

FlightDeck & Networked...mini's?

[Anonymous Coward]

All well and good that MSFS was used, but..

Run X-Plane (x-plane.com) and a handfull of networked Macs (or PCs, no matter) and you could get FlightDeck to have motion capabilities as well. Take a handful of Mac mini systems for ulterior displays (rear view, controls, data output, perhaps instructor fail system, etc) and maye three heavy metal desktop boxes for the front view out-the-window views (where the clarity and frame rate would be most neded), all networked together, with networked output going to the motion control rig, and you've got one heck of a flight envrinment.

All out of the box with X-Plane. Toss that MSFS garbage, get the real deal, FAA approved sim.

What about X-Plane?

[phaln]

Now that's a sim worth creating a monster panel for. I'm surprised there isn't one out there yet.

Why always MSFS

[Bastian]

Not meaning to bash MSFS, but I'm curious why you always see simulator mockups done with it rather than X-Plane. It has a much more realistic flight model, and it seems to me that people willing to spend so much money on a flight sim would care enough about realism to also choose the more realistic simulator software. Are there technical issues with X-plane that make it unusable (no support for multiple monitors and graphics cards, for instance), or is it just another example of MS being the default?

Re:Why always MSFS

[Anonymous Coward]

no, you're right. they chose msfs cause they're gay

Re:Why always MSFS

[EmagGeek]

Not to mention the fact that the creators of this project bill it as an educational too, when MS not only does not accurately model real flight, but also does not accurately, by any stretch of the imagination, model the flight controls of ANY plane in its library.

For example, the cockpit in the Learjet45 is abysmally simplistic and doesn't even come close to the full functionality of the Primus avionics system that comes in the real plane.

Re:Simulation Technology & China

[DAldredge]

They don't have to, Boeing is build factories in China to product aircraft.

All they have to do is nationalize them when the want them..

XPlane is only part of the FAA package:

[caveat]

From the X-Plane site: "Fidelity Flight Simulation has obtained FAA approval (documented here) to train pilots towards their COMMERCIAL CERTIFICATE, INSTRUMENT RATING, and AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT CERTIFICATE. This training is done in a full-motion simulator, using X-Plane 6.12 as the simulator software!...Now, actually LOGGING this time requires you to be in a Motus full-motion sim (price tag: about $150,000.00) with an instructor."

Course, MSFS ain't certified for squats under ANY circumstances...it's just a game.

Idea for making slashdot better...

[im_thatoneguy]

... perhaps Slashdot (since it kills EVERY SINGLE PAGE it references) should invest in somekind of automatic caching system, like google's... just an idea...

Re:Idea for making slashdot better...

[superatrain]

have u heard of mirrordot.org automaticly copys the hole slashdoted page... so if slashdot could have its links posted to mirrordot.org, then the world would be a better place....

Re:Idea for making slashdot better...

[Anonymous Coward]

aren't you like the billionth person to suggest this?

Re:Bzzzt. Wrong. Bzzzt Bzzt Bzzzt

[Solder Fumes]

Blood.

Blooooooood.

BLOOOOOOOOOOOD!

*drip*

*drip*

*drip*

MIRRORDOT

[peterprior]

Mirrordot link to images here

New Slogan

[mikeage]

Reach for the Sky... DeVry...

oh, wait...

Re:New Slogan

[mink]

That's an accurate description of what happened to my financial aid and personal income when I was going to DeVry.

Flightsimulator sucks

[Sarin]

I'm flying a real r22 beta helicopter and I checked out the r22 in ms flightsimulator, it's nowhere close to the real thing. It's far too easy to control in flightsimulator and it behaves very unrealistic. I suspect the other flight models in flightsimulator are of the same 'quality'.

If you're thinking about spending a lot of money on a decent simulator setup, spend the money on flight lessons instead, the real thing is much more fun.

Re:Flightsimulator sucks

[iammrjvo]

Yeah, but you're just waaaaayy too cool for the rest of us, so we'll just stay home.

Ants

[Anonymous Coward]

Sarin flies around looking down upon us from his R22 and thinks we look like ants. Little does he know, as I watch him soar majestically like an eagle, I am truly but an ant.

Speak of the devil

[Raunch]

I recently finished (on tuesday) inteviewing for a staff engineer position at United's training facility in Denver CO. They let me "fly" one the new 777 sims. These things are incredible, they are built with authentic parts to every extent possible (so that everything works the same) and they are set upon six hydrolics that allow six degrees of freedom. The experience is crazy.

My Left Nut

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks alot. You're pretty much my arch-enemy now. I would do anything for 30 minutes in one of those. I guess it's gonna be X-Plane and MSFM for me:(

Poor Cable Website - RIP

[Anonymous Coward]

Site is gone. /.ed. Hate to see the nasty letter they get from Comcast...

Slashdot Firefox extension

[slapout]

Someone should write a plugin for Firefox that modifies the text of a slashdot article to reflect the effects of a slashdotting. For instance, this article would be changed like this:

"...directly with Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004. They had tons of pictures ..."

this? a flight simulator?

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL :)
oh yes, I work at CAE...

Three Years...

[Black-Man]

Sure. You see the short term gain. What you fail to see is by NOT taking the classes that a REAL university offers... foreign language, humanities, arts... you are missing out on an important piece of your overall education.

Re:Three Years...

[GoodNicsTken]

On the contrary, the job I have has actually let me travel to Europe, UK, Canada, etc. Where I actually learned first hand what other cultures and societies are like. I have a great appreciation for culture, and I'm almost ashamed to be American. Did you know almost everywere else in the world you go people speak 2 or more languages?

Did you know kids in Stockholm Sweeden start taking English in the 6th grade and every year after? Most Sweeds are very fluent in English.

I can order basic items in a resturant in Sweedish, German, British (hehe), and French. I took Spanish in highschool, the rest I learned by visiting.

I was sitting on a train in Scottland leaving a party with a UK citizen from work. I had a beer in my jacket. I was looking around before pulling it out of my jacket to take a drink. Owen looked at me and said, you know you don't have to do that? I looked back at him, Really? Owen said, yes, Unlike America we really are free, we don't just talk about it. What humanities class is going to teach you that?

I have learned a great deal over the last 5 years, and truly understand why America is so hated by so many. Yet every class related to the subjects you mention has taught me one thing. How to memorize a bunch of facts I care little about for a test. What happened to the things I memorized? Long forgotten.

Yet I carry with me the knowlege and experiences I have gained from actually experiencing what they try and teach. If you read the Bill Gates article from yesterday, it's exactly what he was talking about. It's easy to sit back and talk about other cultures, it's an entirely different thing to actually experience them.

Additionally that 15K I was able to put away for retirement the first two years I worked will likely double 4 times. So 15K to 30K to 60K to 120K. I'd call that a long term benefit. One that I will be able to use to help others with by supporting aid orginizations and the arts in my retirement years.

Now, tell me again what I have missed by not going to a "REAL" university?

Re:Three Years...

[Suppafly]

Do they really spell the name of your country Sweeden? Because that's not the way the rest of the world spells it.

MS Flight Sim vs. X-Plane

[CdXiminez]

The big difference is that MS flight sim uses preset tables of parameters for each aircraft. This means that the situations simulated are limited to the extremes of these tables.

X-Plane on the other hand calculates the effect of airflow on the shape of the plane on-the-fly, allowing accurate simulation of _any_ situation of _any_ shape in _any_ sort of movement-through-air.
That's how X-Plane is able to simulate the atmosphere of Mars, and one creative mad genius even modeled a Steinway Grand Piano!

Pity that the links in the article have succumbed, I haven't been able to look at them.

Bzzzt.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not real blood, it's a Special Affect.

DeVry Mirror

[Anonymous Coward]

http://student.dpg.devry.edu/showcase/sim_icarus/

Screw Boeing...

[Hobadee]

Screw Boeing, I wanna fly the Airbus A380!

Re:Screw Boeing...

[LWATCDR]

Already out for FS2004 as is a 7e7.

Web Site Update

[Capt_Static]

Hay guys... thanks for the great and interesting feedback. Dave, Devan, and I greatly appreciate the attention and the recognition. I have to admit that I wondered why my ISP's hosting went down last night Then Dave discovered the posting here this morning, which most likely explains it ;-) We are in the process of setting up with a new hosting service including our own domain name because we are going to conitue expand on this project. I arranged with DeVry to host the site as it is for their archives. Obviously, once we get our new service is set up, we will be posting any and all updates there. I will post the new url once we have it all set by sometime later next week (hopefully). Thanks again! Chris Mueller Sim Icarus Flight Deck

Re:Another Proof...

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn! You see how mean those Canadians get when you take away their precious hockey season? Sheeesh! Chill out.

(oh, chilling out is their problem)

MOD UP - Mirror fully works

[Anonymous Coward]

MOD UP - Mirror fully works

Free Online Multi Player Space Combat Simulator

[jtrek]

http://mtrek.game-host.org/