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PlayStation Sales Halted?
Narf Narf writes "According to Japan Today, the U.S. District Court in Oakland, California, has ordered Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. and its U.S. unit to pay $90.7 million in damages to Immersion Corp. for patent infringement over controllers used with PlayStation game consoles. In the ruling handed down Thursday, the federal court also ordered Sony Computer Entertainment and Sony Entertainment America Inc. to stop selling the PlayStation and PlayStation 2 game consoles using Dualshock controllers as well as more than 40 game software products." Update: 03/28 04:51 GMT by Z : ...which was followed immediately by an injunction, to allow Sony time for an appeal, and a compulsory licensing agreement.
I believe that the judge's order has been stayed and PS2's can be sold. More Bad News for Sony
Would it not have been easier for Sony to acquire the [Immersion Corp.] company before this mess happened?
from the you'd-think-they'd-have-thought-that-through dept.
You can say that again.
Does this mean that vibrators are now infringing on their patent? They vibrate, and they are used in various games I play.
Muaha.
Yeah I bet that was a Dualshock.
Not sure if this was because of too much confidence on Sony's end, but generally this would be the perfect example of a case worth settling out of court.
Seeing as how the PlayStation 3 will most likely be backwards compatible with the earlier two and that it should be fairly late in the development stage, couldn't this have a fairly wide reaching effect on the PS3?
Forgive my saying so, but that's the wackiest thing I've ever heard. I like the idea of patenting inventions alright (I myself have some designs I would like to patent), but I would dearly like to see patents for things that would make one go "Wow! I would never have thought to do it that way" or "Damn! She must've spent months coming up with that design".
There's nothing about the PS/PS2's controller design that would make me think "Patent!"
Also, patenet claims SHOULD also include proof that the design wasn't come upon independently and without using any of the claimers work. Patents are supposed to protect against unfair use of one's hard work and effort. If it's their own, it doesn't matter which came first.
Idiots.
Just wait for the flood of stories that the video game industry is doomed if Sony can't sell their consoles. I wonder how many game companies will cite this court action for why they can't make money in their stock filings and/or can't treat their slaves... uh, workers... better.
:)
On the flipside, if this allows Nintendo to get their foothold onto the market at Sony's expense, I wouldn't mind.
What exactly is the patent? Is it on something like "input devices using vibration technology to provide tactile feedback in applications" or something like that? And if that's the case, wouldn't Nintendo's Rumble Pak easily be prior art? I can't help but notice they haven't sued Nintendo yet (at least to my knowledge).
back when they first invented it, it was most likely something amazing and kick ass.
Small potatoes.
Why is slashdot posting a lawsuit of this magnitude but failing to post anything about the world famous (and more relevant) Lexar Lawsuit worth over $460 million and will cause a massive disruption in the supply/demand equations currently applied to the significantly growing flash USB key and card memory market?
Your ignorance is infinitely greater than you realize.
Shhhhhhhhhh!
jeez why don't you just hold a sign up for them?
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
It's a legitimate patent I would say. Just because your so damned used to vibrating controllers doesn't negate the fact that immersion had the patent before Sony introduced their dual shock controllers.
Oh, wait; then I'd be infriging by selling an infriging product, right?
AC comments get piped to
From what I'm reading, this patent claim may well be legitimate. Apparently several companies already recognize Immersion's patent on the technology as being valid and have licensed it from them.
Is Sony notorious for infringing upon patents?
8==8 Bones 8==8
" If this doesn't prove the US Patent system needs some overhauling, then I don't know what does. Hopefully this will get the big corporations involved in changing patent law, but for the better?"
No it just proves that:
1-Slashdotters don't read the patent.
2-Slashdotters favour a knee-jerk response.
3-Slashdotters don't care about one and two...so there, NYAH!
What about the N64 Rumble Pak, yo?!
What was it about the Dualshock that caused the violation?
It was an American company claiming patent infringement before an American judge against a Japanese company. I'd say S.O.P.
Yes well that might be true, but then why didn't they tell Sony about this at the beginning, I'm sure they would have made more money by getting Sony to license the technology from them instead of through a lawsuit.
Physics is like sex. Sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it
...and it's probably a RPG.
I wonder where the extra 8.7M fits it?
m ments
http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1771212788933190/#co
Agreed.
I don't care for the old croissant controller, but I definitely favor the "s" controller over the PS2's or Cube's controllers.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
Here's what gamespot has to say on this.
You can't take the sky from me...
Whoa! How come this wasn't on the news. You guys think this source is legit? This is quite a huge news story, but I just havn't come across it anywhere else. This looks like a job for http://www.picsorstfu.com/ Hehe, just kidding around, but I would feel more comforted if the post was from a well-known news source.
My car vibrates depending on road conditions and engine RPM,
Would this not be "vibration for tactile feadback"? it's 15years old, so I bet it's prior art....
Less look fast, more go fast.
Before everyone goes mental saying "what is there to patent on a vibrating controller" you should have a better understand of what Immersion's patents (and thus suit) covers. Immersion's patents relate to giving developers very fine-grained control over the motors driving the "vibration units" in things such as pagers, mobile phones, and yes game controllers. In particular they allow you to do more than just have "off/on" control. Play a game like Gran Turismo and you'll see what I mean - you really can feel the terrain (and your car's grip or lack of) through the Dual Shock controllers - they aren't simply in an on-off mode.
That is what the patents cover, and you'll notice that Microsoft have already settled with Immersion over a similar suit.
--- There's no place like 127.0.0.1
Nintendo paid to have the 'rumble' technology developed by this company. While Microsoft avoided lawsuit by "licensing" it from them the only way MS knows how. Buy into them. Sony has just kept thumbing their nose, and its gonna hurt them to the tune of $90 million. Assuming Sony doesn't win some "its not the samething" patent appeal. I expect this to be in our court system well into the next decade. I mean come on! It is cheaper for Sony to spend $90 million on lawyers to keep this in the courts over the next 5 years than it is to pay the $90 million now.
Does Sony have any good reason NOT to continue selling the dual shock controllers and ignore the District Court in Oakland, California? I mean fiscally, wouldn't it be smarter to tell them to bugger off and sell em anyhow?
-----
Check out the Uncyclopedia.org :
The only wiki source for politically incorrect non-information about things like Kitten Huffing and Pong! the Movie !
Please allow me to hate the creator of the 120-character limit: *HATES*. Thank you.
Immersion holds patents for force feedback technology which cover certain aspects of the rumble effect used in game joypads, and also named Microsoft as a defendant in its original lawsuit in 2002 - but the Xbox manufacturer settled out of court in July 2003 by signing a licensing agreement with the firm.
If you read his RTF-his title, he says exactly as much. Might be karma whoring, but I wouldn't call it outright stealing.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
do you have access to information that we dont? Please share. In almost every one of these kinds of cases the company that holds the patent does in fact go to the company and attempts to get them to license it. In almost every one of these kinds of cases, the company does in fact license the patent unless for some reason their lawyers think they can get out of it.
Apparently sony thought they could, immersion sued, and the judge ruled that immersion was right.
-
Wow. I've always been against software patents, in much the same way I am against music, art, literature, and poem patents. (If you are paranoid people might steal your precious IP: there's always copyright for that.)
But now we begin to see examples of braindead hardware patents, as well. People: it's a GAME CONTROLLER! *Nothing* in it is rocket science.
Some things about humans:
* they are creative
* that means they might invent something
* more than one person might come up with the same idea, independently
* usually that's fun, so people will invent, even without incentives (like patents)
* there is nothing that justifies that just because I come up with an idea first, everyone else should be forbidden to use that some idea without paying me royalties
So why do we have patents at all? Innovating is fun; innovating pays, even if other companies clone your product. Quit the patent nonsense; abolish the very concept!
(Besides it goes against the very principles of liberalism, the core of most Western societies! Me gaining a monopoly on an idea infringes on another human's freedom to express and implement his/her own ideas.)
Are you kidding? Man, I really miss the Super Nintendo controllers. Actually, I just miss Super Nintendo (and regular Nintendo for that matter). You hear that Nintendo? Resume production immediately!
There is nothing out of touch about the ninth circuit court.. you need to stop drinking the koolaid:
t _o f_Appeals_for_the_Ninth_Circuit
The court is considered by some to have an overly liberal bias, but arguably a majority of its judges are conservatives. While 17 judges have been appointed by Democratic presidents, 5 of those are solid conservatives. Thus only 12 of the Democrat-appointed judges are liberals or moderates, potentially leaving the remaining 15 as conservatives.
It is often called "the most overturned appeals court in the United States", but this is mostly a product of its high caseload. On a percentage basis, the circuit is not overturned much more than any other. (Indeed, in 2003 it had the least reversal rate of any appeals court with more than five cases reviewed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Cour
GPL'd web-based tradewars themed space game
Who said Freedom was Fair?
he gave credit in the subject of the post... Did you think no would would actually RTF post? (:
Whoever stated that signature sizes should be limited to one hundred and twenty characters can just go ahead and kiss my
I eventually take apart every toy I get. I've taken apart dozzens of game controllers, and the first time I opened up a vibrating controller, I saw something I'd seen before. A cheap little DC motor with an unbalanced weight on the rotor. The first time I'd seen this was in the Milton Bradley board game, Operation. The little motor did a pretty good job of making an "electric shock" noise, and the vibration discouraged you from bracing the palm of your hand or other hand on the board while plucking the little bones out. http://www.hasbro.com/operation/
Well, given the number of units that have moved for both the PS1 and the PS2, I would say that it's probably a reasonable figure.
Yes, unfortunately the source is correct.
m ?CompanyID=IMMR&CIK=1058811&FID=950134-05-4791&SID =05-00
Take a look at this SEC filling (found it doing a quick google search for "History of Immersion Corp")
http://immr.client.shareholder.com/EdgarDetail.cf
Heres the most relevent section I could find (IANAL)
OUR CURRENT LITIGATION AGAINST SONY COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT AND OTHERS IS EXPENSIVE, DISRUPTIVE, AND TIME CONSUMING, AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE, UNTIL RESOLVED, AND REGARDLESS OF WHETHER WE ARE ULTIMATELY SUCCESSFUL, COULD ADVERSELY AFFECT OUR BUSINESS.
On February 11, 2002, we filed a complaint against Microsoft Corporation, Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc., and Sony Computer Entertainment of America, Inc. in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District Court of California alleging infringement of U.S. Patent Nos. 5,889,672 and 6,275,213. The case was assigned to United States District Judge Claudia Wilken. On April 4, 2002, Sony Computer Entertainment and Microsoft answered the complaint by denying the material allegations and alleging counterclaims seeking a judicial declaration that the asserted patents were invalid, unenforceable, or not infringed. Under the counterclaims, the defendants are also seeking damages for attorneys' fees. On October 8, 2002, we filed an amended complaint, withdrawing the claim under the U.S. Patent No. 5,899,672 and adding claims under a new patent, U.S. Patent No. 6,424,333.
On July 28, 2003, we announced that we had settled our legal differences with Microsoft, and we and Microsoft agreed to dismiss all claims and counterclaims relating to this matter as well as assume financial responsibility for our respective legal costs with respect to the lawsuit between Immersion and Microsoft.
On August 16, 2004, the trial against Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc. and Sony Computer Entertainment of America, Inc. ("Sony Computer Entertainment") commenced. On September 21, 2004, the jury returned its verdict in favor of Immersion. The jury found all the asserted claims of the patents valid and infringed. The jury awarded Immersion damages in the amount of $82.0 million. On December 10, 2004, the Court held a hearing on post-trial motions relating to the jury's decision, and Immersion's request for a permanent injunction and other relief that may be appropriate. On January 5 and 6, 2005, the Court also held a bench trial on Defendants' remaining allegations that the '333 patent was not enforceable due to alleged inequitable conduct. The Court has taken the matter under submission. On January 10, 2005, the Court issued a written order ruling on the motions heard December 10, 2004. The Court denied the parties' requests for judgment as a matter of law on various issues. The Court awarded Immersion prejudgment interest on the damages the jury awarded at the applicable prime rate. The Court further ordered Sony Computer Entertainment to pay Immersion a compulsory license fee at the rate of 1.37%, the ratio of the verdict amount to the amount of sales of infringing products, effective as of July 1,
a US District Court has ordered Sony to pay Immersion Corp. $90.7 million for infringing several patents related to computer-controlled vibrating motors (which Sony uses in their Dual Shock PlayStation and PlayStation 2 controllers).
From engadget
Have you metaroderated recently?
I think it's time to invent Godwin's law part II, "any conversation held long enought in Slashdot will inevitably end with someone comparing the whole matter to SCO or Microsoft, and it will mark the end of the conversation for reasonable people"
Links to the patents: 6,424,333, 6,275,213.
Who said Freedom was Fair?
Actually, Microsoft has been granted patents with vague enough descriptions to be able to cover a double-click with the mouse and using the tab key to navigate to elements of a user interface.
Xbox and GC both have force feedback in their controllers (not counting the wavebird). Why aren't they in trouble as well? The article was extremely light on details, does anybody have more info?
as a patent case which circuit is irrelevant ALL appeals from patent cases go to the Federal Circuit- based in D.C.
You're confusing copyright and patent (don't feel bad, everyone else on this site does too). Patents are mutually exclusive and broad. They could have copyrighted their design, and sony still copyrighted theirs.
However, this might show how low the threshold for patents is these days.
The PS controllers are easier to use on a computer?
Google's first result on xbox usb controller. Note lack of programming chips, or even any chips at all.
Wasn't the XBOX controller interface basically USB with different pin positions or something?
Hello, I wonder what Sony's sales for be for the US ? Maybe Sony should start boycotting the US until the patent system gets corrected ? Michael.
Linux: For those able to think out side of a window
y'know you can get adapters to hook the old SNES pads up to USB on your PC? In fact, you can get something like that for just about every old console out there.
Here y'go.. a quick google turned up a SNES one here at Lik Sang
Curiosity was framed. Ignorance killed the cat.
I don't know much (actually, next to nothing) about this case, but shouldn't there be some sort of time limit on lawsuits such as this? Sony has been making the controllers for years and this is just happening now? If this is a valid claim it should have been resolved when the first controllers came out...which was 7 years ago .
Of course, this could have been going on since 1998 without me knowing. But waiting for so long to bring a patent infringement lawsuit (especially after years of huge profits) should count against the patent holder. That's the way trademarks work, right?
"Physics is to math what sex is to masturbation." - Richard Feynman
Yeah, but remeber, Microsoft got hit also( From Immersion's web site) so its not just the dualshock controllers. As this article mentions, Microsft ended up licensing the technology (and became a shareholder, although this isn't mentioned).
Does this mean I'll be able to buy a PS2 for cheap here in Canada soon?
True genius is grasping a situation like a peice of fruit, and peircing it just right so that it drains dry.
It's business that controls everything, big business. It's ignorant suits with an MBA, not people that have worked 8-10 years on a law degree, that you should be afraid of.
But the suits have been VERY effective at convincing dipshits like you that lawyers and doctors, and other highly educated people are to blame.
When was this patent taken out?
I remember a lot of old arcade driving games that had force-feedback on steering wheels, if the patent was taken out after they came out then that'd be pretty good prior art I'd think.
Also of course for a long time on aeroplanes the control stick used to have a shaker to warn pilots of a stall, I guess that'd probably count as prior art too.
That is, the lazy can just not do a damn thing and camp on an idea. Let someone else to the hard work, then fire a lawsuit for patent infringment once your idea become profitable.
Do some research. Other companies, such as Logitech, one of the biggest manufacturers of force-feedback devices, already license from Immersion and have for years.
Also, if "someone else" is willing to work hard enough to develop something, but not to find out if it's already patented, then they're as guilty of laziness as anyone else.
That's "Ninth Circus Court of Appeals" Get it right folks. Please!
Life is not for the lazy.
Metal Gear Solid, (The first one).
:D
Granted it isn't really neccesary, but it does help immerse you in the game.
First time I played it I did so with the old, non-shaky controller.
First thing I did when I got a dualshock was to replay it. That was SO worth it
You can't take the sky from me...
Nintendo is not a licensee of Immersion, and as far as I can gather they are not going to be because their rumble controllers do not work the same way as Microsoft's and Sony's. Nintendo is using independently developed technology that does not seem to be covered by Immersion's patents and in fact as far as I can tell predates it.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
I have to agree with you on that one. XboX controllers pretty much suck the big one. Every time I pick it up I feel like I'm holding a fisher price remote control for a 5 dollar toy.
I typically don't play XboX but when I do I try to use the Logitech controllers for it.
Your ignorance is infinitely greater than you realize.
Perhaps. But I believe that either you "Use it or lose it" when it comes to a patent. I'll even be fair about it. You get to patent something but have just a few years to a product developed to prove your using the patent. This extra time also will alow for private investment needed to be raised for such a prototype to be developed.
The idea that you can monkey-type ideas on paper (which takes ZERO effort) and then sue 10 years later is BULLSHIT!.
Life is not for the lazy.
Wow, I suspect Immersion is doing some anonymous "advertising," because on every major site that discusses this verdict there's always a post from a user who's only ever made one post that's very well-worded and praises Immersion from on high about their sensitive vibration technology.
Immersion technology may well be a darned cool thing, but this kind of pandering is absolutely sickening. Its just like the whole Microsoft "grass roots" campain from a few years ago, where all the letters sent were penned, essentially, by Microsoft.
*sigh* If Immersion's so darned paranoid about the hostile feelings this case is sowing against them why don't they do a little PROPER PR instead of having lackies post in forums like these. Shouldn't those posts they've seeded contain official disclaimers or something?
I should also note that said posts tend to refer to all the markets Immersion serves with their technologies, etc... blah blah blah
Sure, some people like Immersion and are standing up for them. Some people are taking Immersion's side and making sense. But there's still always that ONE post that sounds more like an advertisement.
the difference here, though, is that Budweiser *SHOULD* be ordered to stop selling colored water.
grey wolf
LET FORTRAN DIE!
Here are a few Bullet Points:
A man-machine interface is disclosed which provides force and texture information to sensing body parts. The interface is comprised of a force actuating device that produces a force which is transmitted to a force applying device. The force applying device applies the generated force to a pressure sensing body part. A force sensor on the force applying device measures the actual force applied to the pressure sensing body part, while angle sensors measure the angles of relevant joint body parts. A computing device uses the joint body part position information to determine a desired force value to be applied to the pressure sensing body part. The computing device combines the joint body part position information with the force sensor information to calculate the force command which is sent to the force actuating device. In this manner, the computing device may control the actual force applied to a pressure sensing body part to a desired force which depends upon the positions of related joint body parts. In addition, the interface is comprised of a displacement actuating device which produces a displacement which is transmitted to a displacement applying device (e.g., a texture simulator). The displacement applying device applies the generated displacement to a pressure sensing body part. The force applying device and displacement applying device may be combined to simultaneously provide force and displacement information to a pressure sensing body part.
I recall being a kid back in 1993 and going to a shopping mall and visiting EB games. They had this demonstration joystick that you could set to have different sensations and they were very real. Everything from flying to firing a machine gun. That was the technology that they made possible. Sony will have to learn to play ball if they use patented techology. It may be in a US court, but Immersion also has a patent for the same technology in Japan and IIRC, the US has harmonized it's patent system internationally.
Didn't the Rumble Pack come out in 1996? I guess that might not violate these patents (I never owned one, anyone who does...does it have more than one speed?) but does the big N have a patent on that? If they do, can't they modify their patent to get rid of this Immersion BS for the good of everyone? I thought you could do that with patents..."update" them...
Yeah, I can really see how the American court system granting judgement to an American company against a Japanese one really sticks it to the E.U.
This comment is fully compliant with RFC 527.
i personally CARE for the dualshock, i even play some titles on xbox with my playstation controller ..
....
...
...
... hey if i could have a few buttons for the legs (2 pedals + some other stuff)
.... .. but to be safe i might just buy an extra one :)
... these should be "open source" things that should be used and improved by anyone .....
while the xbox has a good idea of having a long travel analog button at the pointing fingers, it makes the hube mistake of wasting 2 fingers just hanging below
sony has all buttons on the controller 8bit sensitive (256 levels of sensitivity) while as far as i know the S-type does not
also having the 2 joys in an asimmetryc manner is a baad-baad idea, however you can get used to it
the dual shock is also half the weight (i go to the gym, so don't start with i'm not strong enough to hold that S-brick stuff)
i think something like the dual controller, with S-style pull triggers. +6 other buttons for the 2x3 fingers would give a big kick to fighting games
or do i wish i was an octopus ?
well a bit off topic
i am upset, i have my duals, and probaly here in costa rica i will be able to buy them for some time
and again, why to patent a HID (human interface device)
shame on that law system again
Flamebait?
Is the truth now regarded as flamebait?
X-Box controllers are designed for Halo. One game. That's all. Pretty fucking useless for anything else, and not even as good as a mouse / KB for Halo!
That was classic intercourse!
Lets see now. The patents were filed for, not awarded, but filed, in April 2001, and May 2000.
Sony started selling their dualshock analong controllers in April of 1998. Legitimate or not, Sony was selling these "infringing" devices 2 years before the other company even applied for a patent on them.
ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
So is Turkey, mostly, and they're going to join. And other Mediterranean states in Africa and, yes, Western Asia have been told they can join if they meet the qualifications. They may have to change it to the Euro-Mediterranean Union (or EMU?), but what the heck. Poland is in NATO and they're not exactly on the North Atlantic. Beware of confusing terminology with knowledge.
"Is this Winkhorst a nova criminal?" "No just a technical sergeant wanted for interrogation."
You don't even need that. It's a 5 minute soldering job hooking it up to the parallel port. More information available in your kernel documentation: /usr/src/linux/Documentation/input/joystick-parpor t.txt
Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
Dualshock was available for PS1 aswell. I remember playing Ape Escape with it. Now ape escape was released on 05/31/1999 according to gamespot. And the pattents i have seen mentioned was filed:
Filed: April 18, 2001
Filed: May 1, 2000
They however seem to be holding earlier patents aswell but they aren't mentioned in the suit and are thus void(?).
You guys are a bit too late...
These guys thought of it first... (Note, saucy picture, oohh!)
Yup...
The buttons on the Xbox controller ARE also pressure sensitive to varying degrees. (As for the range of this sensitivity, I am unsure...and the black/white buttons do not appear to have it). The rear triggers on the Xbox controller are also fully analog axes, not the button arrangement you have on the Playstation controllers. I personally care for the Xbox S controller. I use the standard S and the Joytech Neo-S...both sturdier and more comfortable than any of the PS1/PS2 controllers I have. Why mention that you go to the gym with regards to the weight of the Xbox controller? It may be your personal preference to like the reduced weight, but suggesting the Xbox controllers require a good workout to pick up is slightly daft ;)
Nice weather for penguins...
sounds like its gonna cost sony about as much as I throw out the car window as i pass by hookers
$90.7 million dollars???
Pardon me, but do you mind if I pretend to be a hooker while you drive by?
I think, due to the ./ effect, they've tried to make some of their php pages static but, they missed. Take a look at
Their products page
In any case, its a CVS thing.
Note the index.php then the ----- later ;)
Yes, Dual Shock controllers came out with the first Gran Turismo, released on December 23, 1997.
Even though the infringed patents #6275213 and #6424333 were issued on August 14, 2001 and July 23, 2002 respectively, they're "submarine patents" originally filed on November 30, 1995.
Until 2003, US patent filers could request repeated continuations to intentionally delay issue of a patent for years, until a practical implementation of a technology appeared. Then they they let their submarine patent surface and collect royalties for 17 years from the issue date. (In 2003, the rules changed so that patents now last 20 years from the filing date.)
I actually have a patent on a modification to 3D-glasses...
But I never approached any company with it; it's possible side effect of causing seizures in small children doesn't seem particularly profitable.
Did /. get proper permission to use the dual-shock controller icon on the front page?
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
Sorry, I call bullshit. The patents in question were filed in 2000 and 2001, not in 1993 as you indicate in your post.
The patents are 6,275,213 (filed May 1, 2000) and 6,424,333 (filed April 18, 2001). Look them up on uspto.gov.
The Playstation 2 was first demoed in August 1999, launched March 4, 2000 and came with the DualShock II controller.
Now tell me exactly how Sony can be infringing on a patent that didn't exist at the time the claimed infriging device was launched?
Furthermore, Immersion's patents are so broad they encompass anything that a) produces vibration via a mass on a spinning axis that is b) controlled by a processing device of any kind.
A vibrating pager is the most obvious example of prior art I can think of, and Motorola's been making them a lot longer than Immersion's even existed.
Or, as others have pointed out, a vibrator is also controlled by a processing device, albeit an organic one.
Here's hoping this lawsuit will result in a challenge to frivolous patent claims.
cheers
Luckily I bought my ps2 and katamari damacy 3 weeks ago.
The kneejerk reaction to patents being the work of the devil is not really necessary. Sure, some software patents and whatnot tend to be looney, but patents are overall important. It helps encourage the development of new ideas and protects those that come up with them.
The later models of Playstation 1 came with a Dual Shock controller. You could also buy a dual shock separately. That was before the Playstation 2 came out, and absolutely before these guys filed their patent.
My other first post is car post.
My kidneys already patented the EXACT recipe that Budweiser uses!
That was classic intercourse!
Against an american company..
See this snippit from http://www.sony.com/:
© 2005 Sony Corporation of America
Notice the 'of America' part at the end.
...But I'm purchasing a few APR 40 put options on SNE at the open...
Take the 90-Day Challenge! http://rwmurker.bodybyvi.com/
Sony filed an appeal and apparently got a stay on the injunction that would have forced them to stop selling their consoles and infringing software. You can read about it here.
NATO was supposed to be the response to the Warsaw pact -- Poland joining NATO had a particularly delicious irony, but also raised the question, "What the hell is NATO's real purpose post USSR? Oh, right, it is a UN that the US has more say in...."
When in doubt, parenthesize. At the very least it will let some poor schmuck bounce on the % key in vi. (Larry Wall)
I don't think corporations (specifically Microsoft) will support the changing of the patent laws anytime soon. Especially when open-source is such a big threat, Microsoft needs as many patents as possible to keep its grip on the market.
For the record,
I have a Logitech "3D Mouse" I bought in 1995 to play Descent and experiment with a cheap (~$50) Six-Degrees-of-Freedom input device for a VR-related project I was working on in college.
It also had a crude feedback mechanism that was licensed from Immersion that was just like the dualshock's offset-balast on a DC-motor with a simple motor speed control. Great device despite it having a slow RS232 interface. Anyway... Immersion was in devices being used for gaming atleast as early as 1995, perhaps even as early as 1994. The patent reference for the "interactive feedback device" is "Patent Pending"...
So, your claim of frivolous patent claim sniping is a bit off-base. The 2000/2001 dates you reference could be the dates of official patent number filing/issuance. Also it is not uncommon for a patent developer to re-file addenda or refinements to patents they have already put in for review if the addenda do not change the nature of the patented item from its original filing.
Immersion had a booth at the Spring 1995 VR Expo mini-con that was held in NYC. I was there. Besides context-variable vibration feedback they also had sample devices using directional linear-bumping feedback using small, variable current solenoids. They're legit...
What's worse in this typical knee-jerk Slashdot goon response that I'm seeing all over this topic is that a JUDGE in a COURT held a protracted HEARING with a lot of EVIDENCE and FACTS in the case and came to an >>INFORMED decision. But one look at the news in the U.S. and one can see that the idea of and respect for the judiciary process is completely lost on most people (including many folks in the legislative domain).
youareaclown,
peace,
and carrots,
Levendis47
--==[ AOL YIM ICQ : Levendis47 : levendis47@yahoo.com ]==--
Doesn't Patent Law deal specifically with different uses for technology? The fact that someone created a rumble device in this manner, it doesn't matter if the same thing has powered vibrators since the 1950's. The idea is that the patent is for this technology for use inside a video game console controller. I.E. N64 Rumble Pack was outside of the controller, so doesn't count... cell phones and pagers don't count (Though if N-Gage vibrates to games, then it might).
Feasably, somebody could patent a home video game console with a built in LCD screen and it wouldn't infringe on any past patents for Gameboy/PSP like technology.
Besides, Immersion tried to get Sony to license it, Sony refused, Sony got bitten.
Notice, they can still sell the console, but they do have to start saving up a royalty for every console sold from now on. Sure, they can delay this 10 years, but if they lose, they'd prolly have to pay interest from the start of the case, the original judgement, and licensing fees for the next 10 years on every PS2 sold.
Is the truth now regarded as flamebait?
Yes, 99 percent of the time you could substitute -1 Flamebait with +1 Truth. However, he might have avoided that moderation if he put his point across a little more eloquently.
As for the idea that Xbox controllers are designed exclusively for Halo, that's as much as a gross exaggeration as 'Halo is the only good game for the Xbox'. Yes, playing Halo with the Xbox feels bloody comfortable and natural, but I don't know how this equates to it being unusable for every other game, however. Come on, the differences between the three console controllers aren't that radical; look at which fingers are assigned to which buttons/pads/sticks and it's mostly spatial alignment and positioning that varies.
Funnily enough, I quite like the original Xbox controller and it's only second to the DC one.
Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
Some have expressed, stretchingly, that the issue is more than simply a vibrating console controller. I disagree; it IS simply a vibrating console controller. God forbid someone decide to put a variable capacitator on the electronic motor.
No matter how far you dig, there is nothing patentable about a PlayStation 2 controller. At least, how I envision patents. I feel that no idea that is inevitable should be granted a patent.
For instance. A steering wheel for a car. A fitting analogy to some claims that the Immersion issue is more than a simply "on/off" vibration feedback, one might say that Power Steering would then warrunt a patent. I say no. Anyone who has every driven a car without power steering, or had their power steering faulter, could see how apparent such an idea would be had the "technology" not been developed. I'm as certain as the sun will rise tomorrow, that the first person to drive a Model-T off the line was wondering if there was a way to make the steering easier. So, I feel that power steering is an obvious invention, and as such, the vibrating game console controller to further immerse the player into the game.
This is totally offtopic, but that post reminds me of a conversation I had with a professor a while ago. We were commenting about how little the frosh understood computers, and he made the comment that many of them saw a keyboard as a device to display characters on a monitor. This perception (which I agree is common) makes it difficult to teach the students UNIX or programming, because the students don't see the keyboard as something that can give commands to the computer. You would be further ahead thinking of a keyboard as an input device that is typically used to enter text. Without limiting other uses that I'm not mentioning, that text can be displayed on a monitor, interpreted as instructions for the computer, or it can be the source code of a computer program.
Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult;
whoever rebukes a wicked man incurs abuse.
--Proverbs 9:7
If you read Immersion's site, it says they licensed the technology for their Gamecube wheel controller. Not for their normal Gamecube controller.
Look, Q*Bert had a vibrator/shaker in it long before Immersion was around. Airplanes sent vibration through rudder pedals to indicate stalls before that. Let Immersion have their patents on fancy force feedback, they didn't invent vibration as a method of communicating information to a person.
No, majority shareholders can't do things like that since minority shareholders also have protected rights as well. Sony would need to buy out the company or it would face shareholder lawsuits and possible SEC sanctions if it tried to buy 51% of the company and drop the lawsuit.
"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it
Holy crap, if only the Sony lawyers had known that, you should really let them know.
"Well, actually, if Immersion is some mom-and-pop that's just trying to make a living and Sony really is infringing on some patent that isn't some B.S. patent, but rather something that really is a non-obvious original invention, then that really sucks, and Sony should pay licensing fees."
I don't follow why you think one set of laws should apply, or another, depending on the ownership structure of the company with the patent.
I share your contempt for patent protection applied to trivial inventions, but even then, I don't see how it takes away anyone's right to due process, or why it does not apply to everyone equally.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
It was called Phantom (tm) used in scientific apps:h ost/pre mium6DOF.asp
http://www.sensable.com/products/phantom_g
For example you can put on a finger thimble and feel a virtual 3D surface.
I even wrote an SGI program to use it as a flight cnotrol device.
jpenguin AT the google email service
To sum up your quote, they didn't patent force feedback, they've patented having a sensor to make sure that your force feedback doesn't push too hard. And this is not a logical extension of force feedback because...? Just because it uses intentionally complicated language doesn't mean that the concept isn't simple.
/. rhetoric. Some of the things they've patented are obvious extensions of the existing idea, and some have just mountains of prior art. Most are of the "with X" kind of patent, where they patent pretty much daily activities "with force feedback."
That's probably not what they're fighting over, though. It's probably one of the volumes of other patents that Immersion has recieved. Let's look at a random one, shall we? 6,563,487 describes using force feedback on the D-pad of a controller. It doesn't describe how this is any different than using force feedback on a button, but there it is. There is also force feedback for a knob (6,636,197) and the terrible idea of the vibrating touchpad (6,429,846). I guess that compliments their vibrating Laptop (6,822,635).
Hey, here is one... (6,693,622) a patent for a vibrating mass inside of a controller, granted on February 17, 2004. 2004? Was the patent examiner in a cave? Every console shipped with vibrating controllers years before this, in exactly the manner they describe.
There is mounds of prior art for a lot of this. The kickback in the guns in POW. Battletech centers. The wheel feedbacks in arcade and home games such as Hard Drivin', etc, etc.
The patent system is broken. This is not just
We need to stop allowing patents of ideas, not implementations. A battery would be the perfect example of a classic patent, as one would have listed out the copper and various other ingredients that went into it, the chemical reactions that take place, and so on. These days, it would just be listed as "a device that stores electrical charge," and left at that to sue everyone who makes batteries, capacitors, carpets, combs, and anything else that happens to eventually fall under that umbrella.
Heck, they patented force feedback over a computer network (6,859,819), last month, 2005. Isn't this what cybersex was supposed to be all about? Wasn't there already teledildontics at that point?
Though maybe I'm just bitter because I work at a company which made on one of the games on the list. But these patents ring bogus to me, and I applaud Sony's efforts to fight on everybody's behalf.
I'd also like to point out that just because someone has bought a license from SCO doesn't mean SCO has the right to sell a license. Just because Nintendo didn't fight against this doesn't mean that it is valid. And quite frankly, even if it is valid and holds up in court, it's still downright questionable. I'm guessing Immersion just set the cost of licensing the patents at a number smaller than the cost of fighting the patents in court.
The ______ Agenda
Yep.
You can hack a male USB connector onto the cord of an Xbox controller, and it will work just fine with any USB input. Getting the proper wires soldered together can be a little difficult if the cable end has some funky wire colors, but it's pretty easy to do otherwise.
I really liked immersion's idea of trying to get more games and applications to support force feedback. I have an iFeel mouse, and I really love what some games can do with it. Although last time I checked, it seemed like Immersion was having trouble getting developers to add vibration support to PC games. I noticed that they had some cheesy software on their web site that enabled devices to rumble based on the sound that the user hears.. sigh.
This is bad news for gamers.
Is there any hope for a stay, and that Sony will prevail on appeal?
"Do I dare disturb the universe?"
What if your product takes longer than that to fully develop?
Depending whose filing, the time to market may be months to years. A big company (like MS) can pop something out in 3 months. A lone inventor can take a lot longer (years, even with funding). What if the inventor is a college professor, who likes their current job as a researcher, not a developer (of a product)?
What if the inventor approaches a company, and the company would rather wait for the patent to expire? It's not unheard of.
Personally (and I'll be flamed for this), I favor the 20 year limit. It's such a large block of time for a company, that they'd rather license or buy a patent than wait. If you shorten the patent length, yeah, you'll cut a lot of companies. But overall, you're royally screwing the small inventor. A company can wait 5 years for a patent to expire; most can't wait 20 years. A lone inventor is really put under pressure with smaller terms; with larger ones, the power lies with them.
"The idea that you can monkey-type ideas on paper (which takes ZERO effort) and then sue 10 years later is BULLSHIT!."
Have you ever written a patent application? Just getting the format right takes a week or two. Getting the appropriate sections, filled with the right data, in the right order, within the stringent requirements is a challenge. It takes a lot more than two brain cells rubbing together, and you need to be completely sober.
Try it sometime. Come up with an original idea (harder than it sounds), and write one for kicks. It's an exercise in humility.
I am John Hurt.
Apparently, Immersion has been licensing this technology to other companies for years. They have a very close relationship with logitech. This isn't a case of a patent holding company submarining Sony.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
The patent was file in 2000.
e mium6DOF.asp
But in 1996 I played with exactly the same kind of haptic technology (or called force feedback) before. It was called Phantom (tm) used in scientific apps:
http://www.sensable.com/products/phantom_ghost/pr
For example you can put on a finger thimble and feel a virtual 3D surface.
I even wrote an SGI program to use it as a flight cnotrol device.
jpenguin AT the google email service
Pfff... you don't sue someone till they have become richer and more profitable. That way your gain is even greater once you win.
That principle hasn't seemed to have stopped people like Microsoft, who patent things like "Indicator that other party is typing a message on IM". US Patent law isn't the most watertight legislation ever produced. Just ask Tesla what he thinks of Marconi ;).
The original xbox controllers DO suck; they're too big and they feel cheap. But the controller S feels a lot more natural and a lot better made.
Microsoft does seem to be pretty cheap when it comes to making hardware in general though.
I think this needs a little bit of tweaking to work properly. Basically it should work like this. You have 3 months after some products starts breaking your patent to file a claim against the maker of the product. You shouldn't be able to wait for 10 years, until they've made $2 billion off the product, and then sue them. You should have to let them know that they are breaking your patent as soon as you know they are breaking it. With a product as popular as PS2, it's hard to imagine that immersion didn't know their patents were being broken. They just waited so they could get more money. With the number of patents floating around, you can't expect a company to read every one of them to check if a patent applies to their product. How are they really supposed to know that none apply.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Yeah...I know that Japan isn't in the E.U. That is why I mentioned dollars, euros and yen.
But I was thinking of this as a WORLD-WIDE phenomenon.
The point I was trying to make, was that courts around the world might start to find companies of other nationalities guilty of 'something.' And then slap them with a major fine- hurting the foreign company, and helping their own economy.
No reason to lie.
Patents are simply meant to be an economic incentive to share your inventions. Whether any products are produced inventor is pretty irrelevant to achieving that goal.
Patenting forcefeedback tech is not the same thing as patenting the expression of an idea, there is actual physical hardware involved. Its not "obvious" , there may be prior art but if they invented the technology...more power to them. Just because we dont like the patent doesnt mean its not valid.
Sony is not a helpless babe here, they just have to settle their claim...and pay up some license fees.
I remember my older brother throwing those old NES controllers (and the Atari Joysticks before that) so hard that they would leave dents and holes in out plaster walls--never did a single one break.
There are no tiger attacks in my area and it's all because this rock I'm holding keeps the tigers away.
also having the 2 joys in an asimmetryc manner is a baad-baad idea, however you can get used to it ..
Wrong. T used parts of the control should be in the most accesible positions.
Most games today use analog control mainly. So the left analog stick should be in the main position.
The second stick is used less (except in FPS), so it should be in the secondary position.
PERIOD.
But they don't. They STIFLE inovation now-days. I wouldn't want to make a product or develop software for sale out of fear of having my ass sued off. So...I don't do it.
The idea of patents was a good idea for some truely original ideas. But now, everything has been done in that patents are nothing more then additions to existing ideas in place...whome the parent of the original be in whole or in part can sue.
Life is not for the lazy.
Yeah, just like that. That's exactly my point.
I think they'd have a better case against Microsoft on that one. I like my Xbox and all, but the first thing I noticed was the ABXY buttons in the same configuration as the SNES ABXY buttons. Maybe I just think too much about this, but when the SNES came out with those, I wondered, "Why not ABCD?" The X and Y just seemed arbitrary, which also makes it less than coincidence in my eyes that another console maker would also do that.
isn't this a hardware patent?
In the Slashdot moderating system, humourless based offenses are considered especially heinous.
Faker. You forgot to say ",eh."
yeah right.
How about their intellimice or sidewinder pros? Those were amazing pieces of hardware.
The probability that Sony will appeal this decision is virtually one hundred percent. In the meantime they will simply file for a temporary injunction against the ruling being applied on account that it would cause irreparable harm to their business operations while their appeal is ongoing. In the event that the dispute is not settled out of court before the appeals are exhausted the plaintiffs could address the issue of retroactive damages after the original matter has been settled. Finally, before any lawyers out there accuse me of practicing law without a license let me state that I am NOT a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...just kidding.
"USB devices have been on the market for just as long. Do they want to withdraw these devices?"
Pun intended?
Blank until
The "Rumble Pack" itself is, and completely satisfied the requirements for the first patent pretty much to the letter. And as such prior art in actual consumer existance (not even simply on paper or in the process of having its patents pending), it should completely nullify said patent under any kind of scrutiny. I think at most, the only difference may be the fact that the rumble pack was either on or off (I don't know for a fact if there were variable signals sent to the pack, or if it was just rapidly sending the start/stop signals to mimic multiple intensity of the rumble feedback). Even if that is the only difference, you must be able to argue that this is clearly NOT "new", "inovative", or "non-intuitive" extension of the "Rumble Pack" technology. Heck, they WERE doing something which created the EXACT same effect, but instead of using a multi-state signal, they used rapid switching of on-off to create the same output, in effect pattenting something that is already being done, just not explained the same way. Like I said, I do not know for certain there were not multiple settings for the "Rumble Pack", a Nintendo engineer would need to speak out about that, all I remember was that there was a different output from when I was in a big explosion compaired to when I was simply hit with a laser...
The second patent 6,275,213 should not EVEN APPLY!!! It is a patent on a human computer INPUT device interface, in other words, it takes tactile feedback from the human, NOT the computer!!!. The dual shock controlers take input from the computer, NOT the human!!!
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
And they have much more then just several companies licensing their code for use with linux.
Hmmm... Pie...
Hey, here is one... (6,693,622) a patent for a vibrating mass inside of a controller, granted on February 17, 2004. 2004? Was the patent examiner in a cave? Every console shipped with vibrating controllers years before this, in exactly the manner they describe.
Is the patent a "continuation" of a previous patent application? If so, it may have the priority date of the previous application. Specifically, the patent claims priority to a provisional application filed on July 1, 1999. All three current consoles came out after this date. Before then, the only console whose controller had built-in vibration was later models of the PlayStation dating from 1997 that came with a Dual Shock, and one of the other patents you dismissed may have a claim that covers the original Dual Shock controller.
There is mounds of prior art for a lot of this. [Rattle off list of arcade games]
In which case, the inventive step is "using a standard television set" or "using a handheld controller".
No.
This particular patent APPLICATION was filed in 2000.
The original patent disclosure, which this particular patent quotes verbatim, and which sets the priority date for patentability, was filed in... let's read from the patent:
This is a continuation of application Ser. No. 09/066,608 filed Apr. 24, 1998, now U.S. Pat. No. 6,088,017 which is a continuation of application Ser. No. 08,565,102 filed Nov. 30, 1995, abandoned.
November 30, 1995. So, even if the patent claimed every aspect of force feedback that any human being will ever contemplate for all time, what you were playing with and writing in 1996 means bupkiss.
By the way, did you read the patent claims? Did the Phantom(tm) do exactly what was claimed? I sincerely doubt it, since Sony hired a team of lawyers that, as part of their defense of the case, combed through everything that they and the Sony engineers in force feedback development could think of to discover material that could be used to invalidate the patent.
For $90.7m, I'd do more than just pretend.
In order for a patent to be considered pending, it needs to be filed. Intent to file doesn't count. Their patent was filed in 2000 according to the link.
Since when is a motor with an offset weight on the end of it a "technology" anyway? This is just an example of the American courts using patent law to levy a tax on Japanese imports to subsidize failing, irrelevant American companies. It should be illegal.
My other first post is car post.
"You mean they patented an unbalanced, rotating mass and they got millions for it?"
Just ask Ford.
Every button except for the dpad, start & select button has 256 levels of sentitivity including the black and white buttons. I have just cut up my pad and am using it as a usb joypad on my pc. For more info on it google for XBCD.
Your post proves that:
1- Anti-slashdotters like to make blanket statements about "all slashdotters"
2- Anti-slashdotters will flood every single comments section with their overused comments
3- Anti-slashdotters will always be modded up because no slashdotters actually think the anti-slashdotter is referring to them, so there, NYAH!
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
While from an ergonomic perspective I realise that you're correct, I've always found that my hands just naturally love the symmetry of the PS2 gamepad. I think part of the fact is that most of the PS2 games I play rely very heavily on the triggers (or shoulder buttons if you like) and not much on the buttons at all, so I find I'm mostly paying attention to the sticks and triggers.
The big feature I love on the PS2 is the second row of triggers - however, the analog throttle triggers are nice on other consoles. Too bad the GameCube elected to put only 1 Z trigger on - currently, its got the nicest shoulder-analog-triggers.
I mean, come on. Is there really a patent which describes an excentric weight on an axle of a motor? It almost sounds as stupid as the amazon's shopping cart licence thing: http://www.zdnet.co.uk/print/?TYPE=story&AT=391474 08-39020372t-10000024c
Isn't it time that the patent rules are updated so that patents only can contain "sensible" and "specific" text, including maybe the marketing intent of the device/product/idea? With millions and millions of patents, it's hard to do business without infringing any one of them.
Besides, why is Immersion comming with this just as they "happen" to need money? The first foce feedback controller by Sony was sold before 2000, why didn't Immersion do it then? I'd say they're too late.
If you can't do business properly, don't sue others for the fact that they can.
I certainly consider it more intuitive than triangle, circle, square and X (though I've adapted to those, too). :)
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on.
Just because there is legal precedent for something in the United States does not mean you can't call bullocks on it. That's what makes this country great, aren't you a patriot? Legally, yes, this is relatively open and shut as far as patent law goes.
But that doesn't make this necessarily an ethically great decision. As someone mentioned earlier, Nintendo holds the patent for one "rumble" motor in both modular and fixed joysticks for video game systems. The patent being infringed upon specifically calls for two rumble motors in a controller with two analog joysticks. Mind you, that yes, that does seem like exactly what Sony was manufacturing without licensing the technology, I'm not claiming that Sony didn't infringe on anything.
My point though is that there is absolutely no "innovation" going on here. All that Immersion Corp. basically did was take an existing, patented technology, and increase the amount of doodads beyond what was previously patented. They didn't invent video games, nor joysticks, nor rumblin' game pads; they just moved in when they saw that someone hadn't made a broad, sweeping patent (like say, on rumblin' game pads in general), and that there would might be a profit to be had licensing this to big companies.
Now I'm no corporate crusader, and I'm no class warrior, but resorting to some of the most despicable practices amongst the biggest of the giants pretty much puts you on the same plane as them in my book. I'm not apologizing for Sony's negligence in licensing or working around existing patents, but neither will I sit on Immersion's side, just because they're the smaller company.
--- What
Logitech payed for the patent, for instance. True, many small companies didn't pay, but Immersion doesn't even care about them - they can only get big money out of the big players, like Sony and Microsoft.
"offset-balast on a DC-motor with a simple motor speed control"
You mean an eccentric wheel! Why don't you use the proper word for this!
"eccentric, noun, A disk or wheel having its axis of revolution displaced from its center so that it is capable of imparting reciprocating motion."
it seems that the things you love about the DS are the things I hate with a passion. I love where the sticks are on the controller-s, it just feels so much more natural. and the shoulder buttons, that's my main gripe. I LOVE the triggers on the controller-s, they feel like more like real triggers. I'm not a sony hater, I used to admire the dualshock, but once I started using the controller-s, I never went back. also, the dualshock just feels so, I dont know, it feels too small. but again, my main gripe is the shoulder buttons. it's incredibly uncomfortable to use all 4.
Free electronics!
Turkey is not yet in the EU and it is quite likely that it never will be. No African state will ever be in the EU, because they have a completly diffrent culture. The EU is not just a trading union like the NAFTA, it is a union of culture and trade. Guess what, there even exists a European parlament in Strassburg, which work out laws for the whole EU. "Western Asia have been told they can join" Who has told this? ROFL. China in the EU or what do you mean by Western Asia? Could you give any reference. "Poland is in NATO and they're not exactly on the North Atlantic" And so ain't Italy, Greece, Hungary,...
The American wing (or branch or whatever) of a Japanese company. Microsoft's branch here says "Microsoft India", but it's still an American company. Now what kind of idiot modded parent as Informative?
People have already raised this argument and, guess what?
1) The patent was filed in 1995. Patent protection begins with filing, not granting.
2) Nintendo licensed the technology from the patent holder.
Clear, Dark Skies
It would be ironic if they get reamed in the ass for intellectual property, since they are part of the RIAA.
I'm certain SONY has virtually unlimited legal resources- but not Sony in Oakland. These things take time to develop- it may still be a crock.
Can't buy something that is not for sale.
Why won't anyone else point out that the vibration becomes annoying after the first hour of the game? Like, you just CAN'T feel the terrain. It's really just a controller vibrating incessantly. This is the first thing I turn off. It's got to be the most useless 'feature' in modern videogames.
immersion had patents pending on this type of thing well before 1995. there was even some products on market that had licensed it from them(while patent pending, so they weren't really hiding the fact that they had patents coming to them on it)...
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Put a motor, with a small propeller on a long shaft that crosses the controller. Run motor. The lose shaft will cavitate.
;)
When someone tries to sue, show them prior art. It's called "propeller cavitation" and has been a known occurrance since the invention of propeller driven ships and airplanes.
Then maybe you should try the Pelican Eclipse controller for the Xbox. It puts and extra set of B&W buttons up on the shoulder. Incidentally, this is along the lines of what MS is planning for the Xbox 2 controller.
Eclipse pic
Thank you great oracle. Perhaps you also have information on who will win the lottery next Tuesday?
You are sitting in front of a computer with internet access and you want ME to give YOU references?
Just for your edification: The Euro-Mediterranean Partnership (qv.) consists of those countries on the Mediterranean that are not in the EU. These include countries in North Africa and far western Asia (Syria, Israel, and the Palestine Organization). Yes, Syria is in Asia, as is Israel, as is, mostly, Turkey, which WILL join the EU within 10 years, the pope not withstanding. ALL of these EMP countries have been told they can join the EU if they meet the qualifications. Whether they will is up to them, not you. Keep in mind, they all have large populations who speak either English or French, since they were once colonies of one or the other, and they thus have cultural connections with Europe, though they are not majority Christian. Most of them do have Christians and Jews among their populations, whatever that proves.
I will not even attempt to untangle your misconceptions about NATO. Go surf. Just for HA-HAs, what national educational system are you a product of?
"Is this Winkhorst a nova criminal?" "No just a technical sergeant wanted for interrogation."
I think that there is a certain portion of the population that's familiar with using a different device to make parts of your body feel vibrations.7 &Partnumber=299-028
The idea of using something other than a speaker to make your body feel variable levels of vibration has been around for a while, and in some cases went along with other forms of entertainment.
Of course, the point here was that a speaker putting out bass makes more than just your eardrum feel the vibration; as used in BassShakers http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=
They can probably just drag this out until PS3 comes out and make it pointless.
Totally OT, but when I was a kid I had a friend that thought he was some kind of martial artist (he wasn't).
We used to call him Ninja Guy Dan.
Find coupons in Greeley
Sony has helped in creating this litigious society.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Big question is why did Immersion take so long to SUE SONY...... why not the minute it was being infringed on.....Lazy way of making big bucks.
1 Patent a device.
2 watch people infringe.
3 wait a few years.
4 SUE.!!!!
5 Profit.
I would have to say that any court that is overturned on average 90% of the time on the cases accepted by the Supreme Court is severely out-of-touch. You need to check your figures over the last 10 years, and not cherry pick a single short period of time to try and make your case.
YMMV, although I can't imagine what a court would have to do to be considered out-of-touch by your standards.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Yeah, but the Z button is fataly ill-placed in the gamecube controller. it should be UNDER the triggers, so your index can rest on it, and the middle finger can press it.
They don't even make the xbox. it is contracted out to a factory in china owned by some taiwan motherboard manufacturer. even the plastic case
Your ignorance is infinitely greater than you realize.
Clever signature text goes here.
as a "world wide phenomenon", this judgement really harms U.S. citizens (with the exception of the patent holder of course.) Observe:
Any questions?
This comment is fully compliant with RFC 527.