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MS Plans Low-Cost Windows for Brazil
Atryn writes "According to this C|NET article, Microsoft is planning to release its XP Starter Edition in Brazil. Could the pressure of Brazil's overtures toward Linux be forcing Microsoft Brasil to compete?"
The Brazilian government has launched an initiative called "PC Conectado" (Connected PC), via which it hopes to sell up to one million computers (each costs $300 - $400 U.S.) to lower-middle income Brazilians this year. The cost of the PCs will be partially subsidized by the government.
I wonder if MS can justify $400 million to secure 1 million Brazilian users. They might as well pay for the PCs with pre-installed Windows OS free of charge.
Is this excessive even by MS standard?
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
Features cut from the various Starter Editions have included support for multiple user accounts; networked printers; the ability to personalize desktops with multiple looks and feels for different users; and support for screen resolutions above 800 X 600 DPI (dots per inch). Starter Edition also prevents users from launching more than three applications simultaneously.>
I didn't realise the Starter Edition was so crippled. I would consider that barely useful!
first they give you a free hit, sooner or later your hooked on the stuff.
serenity now!
If it didn't work in Asia, why would it work in Brazil?
Excuse me, I don't mean to impose, but I am the ocean
Microsoft seems to do this an awful lot... I'm not even sure why this sort of thing makes the front page news anymore. OF COURSE it's a response....
Brazilian people already don't pay for windows. Do they really think they'll start paying for a crippled version of it? Right on Microsoft. Right on. I for one, wouldn't use it.
You would figure Microsoft wouldn't care. Oh well. Shows Microsoft might ACTUALLY care about people .. HAHA. Who am I kidding? It's just a marketing ploy of some sort. "Use our products now, and they get sucked into the never-ending money-eating pit of doom!"
It is far too limited to be useful to anyone. Users who need to use the computer will pirate. Government will not be stuck with a stripped down almost unusable copy of Windows, when they could build their own hack of linux and use that on their boxen. The only people I would expect this could be useful for are Computer Manufactures.. who will just throw a copy of Starter on the computer for a bit less money.
Proceed with Format (Y/N)? Y
Sure, maybe, maybe some people just use Starter Edition for a while, then realize its limitations and decide to upgrade. If they can hardly afford a $300 computer, will they really be able to afford a $260 OS upgrade? Chances are, they'll talk to everyone about how they need an upgrade, until the kid from city hears about it and comes along with a CD-case full of cracked Windows CDs and installs it for $10.
WE DON'T WANT IT.
$200 million to secure the *FIRST* 1 million users.
paintball
see, they have already recovered development costs,
/. is the borg?
probably 10x over.
if they sold the professional edition for $10 they STILL MAKE MONEY.
So, now they insult users by stripping it down, which is NO DOUBT going to cause 1/2 the software out there to BREAK, then sell it for something like $50-$75 anyhow!
This is a SLAP IN THE FACE.
Why do you think the icon for them here on
All the money that bill and his wife supposedly give away, but they cant donate a goddamn copy of windows to some poor family just KILLS ME.
M$ can ROT IN HELL.
There would be no extra cost for Microsoft to sell them the full version for the same price. And they would be far more competitive with Linux if they did.
The only reason to sell a crippled version is to not undermine the market in the rich countries.
If they sell the same version for a substantially lower price MS will have a hard time explaining that difference.
I guess that this is obvious really.
But even if it is obvious, when you think about it, I believe it is enough of a smoke screen for people in rich countries to not question the prices of the full versions of Windows.
The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
If someone doesn't have the money for a nice computer with a legit copy of WinXP Pro and all the other goodies, they probably don't have the money to run their own home LAN or the RAM/CPU power to run lots of demanding apps at once. I don't see how this is a bad idea. Sure, it's MS being manipulative, but look at it this way - less features means less security holes!
Well, hopefully it does...
People sometimes accuse me of running a 'toy OS'. But it seems like this starter edition is really 'toy edition'. It takes a desktop computer that 30 years ago would have been a super computer, and turns it into something barely useful. Way to innovate Microsoft!
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Here in South America (I'm from Argentina) Linux is getting more and more attractive, specially after sucesive devaluations(1 U$s = 3 Pesos) Most of the budget PCs here come with diffrent flavors o'linux preloaded, but unfortunately ppl get a friend or pay a tech to install copies of Windows, due to the fact that it is the system the know how to use, either because they work in it or they are just plain used to it. I think Microsoft will eventually release these "crippled" versions everywhere, bundled or otherwise and finally, after ppls complaints will release a "less-crippled" version or reduced priced versions of the originals. It would be nice to introduce Linux in the corporate scene.It would make a lot of things easier.
Once is was believed that to compete you had to offer more for less. Now Microsoft wants everyone to believe that competition means offering less for less.
It's like saying the Honda Civic competes with the Corvette, because it offers less engine for less money. It's funny actually.
Linux is looking a much better option now than ever: "Hey, you can run more than three applications at the same time! These guys must be wizards!"
Warning...troll on a karma raising mission.
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
Ford follows suit and announces a cheaper mustang for Brazillians that has a big hole in the floor that operates ala Freddy Flintstone..
I thought it was all grass huts and stuff.
Oh, that's Mississippi. Never mind.
And this doesn't even take distribution of wealth into account. According to the above mentioned source 25% of Brazil's population are below the poverty line. In reality, it's much more (they are notorious for not keeping track of economical data or even just plain making stuff up).
So you have a small upper class, a small middle class, a huge blue collar working class (with many people out of work) and a lot of people unaccounted for.
If you're living on $741 a month, do you really spend $36 on a license you essentially don't need (since there's no enforcement in Brazil). Also, consider that those $36 are 20% of your monthly income (not of your monthly disposable income).
I don't really get who the folks at Microsoft think their target audience is. The upper class can afford XP Pro/Home licenses. They've either already purchased those (probably OEM licenses) or simply don't care. Anyone outside that demographic just won't be able to afford a Starter license, even if they wanted to.
Great idea! Bet they sell dozens of copies.
How is your situation different from the guy who figured it would be good to sell MS Starter Edition in Brazil?
In countries like Brazil, Indonesia, Thailand, & Malaysia (the countries listed in the article, and I've been to three of them), you buy your software for $2 from a guy who burns CDs at the local Internet cafe. Microsoft says this is for the first time user, but it's really for the government and big corps who are actually concerned about whether they follow licensing rules. Microsoft's strategy for developing countries is to go: govt-> multi-national company->local company->middle class individual->everybody. They're still on the govt step.
Tristan Yates
Why can't the Brazilian government sponsor it's own Linux that could be freely distributed (to Portugal as well).
it is forcing them to compete!
Microsloth must accept that they can no longer make their insane profit margins simply by repackaging the same bits over and over again. They must also accept that "it is about the bugs" and that security is a valid concern and that quality is actually a valid selling point for software.
Will they survive this? Maybe. Will Bill Gates? Probably not!
We don't want to provide a version of XP without Media Player to the EU. That would be catastrophic to our business.
However Thailand can have this nice stripped down version of XP.
If MS was serious about combating Linux then they shouldn't be doing things like this . To beat linux they need to offer a quality product. The advantage Linux has is that not only is it tough on viruses, spyware etc., but also Linux doesn't have the same licening restrictions that Windows has, which when it come to ISPs and Goverment gives it a big advantage.
I am going to ask Mike what is really going on in Brazil.
And I thought Windows XP Home was bad, Starter Edition sounds like a one legged dog.
Annoy a Conservative...
Could the pressure of Brazil's overtures toward Linux be forcing Microsoft Brasil to compete?
You call a crippled OS that can only run three foreground apps at once competition? They're going to be laughed out of every government office they set foot in.
"The newly born animals are then whisked off for a quick run through a giant baking oven." --heard on Food Network
Now with 95% less everything! Gonna sell like hotcakes in the EU.
For context, click Parent.
What's the problem with that? I run my 21" LCD at 1600x1200 and that's just a bit over 80x60DPI. This thing has ten times the reslolution of my system!
What? The article author is clueless about technology and just spouted some jargon? Come on, let's give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she uses a 1" screen.
-Ryan C.
... people buy software in Brazil? Since when?
... but of course another alternative to piracy or not having a PC at all that I forgot to mention is *nix/BSD/etc based PC.
Go easy on me, brain is fried from auditing this week...
Ow.
Pirates give them a more functional OS for very nearly free. Same difference, right?
I'd bet it is worth more to Microsoft to give away Windows to every Brazillian for free than to lose some business by pricing it too high, if they could only do one or the other.
Like this one or this one? It's not that much of a stretch to get a cheap box, even with the disgustingly expensive Windows on it.
Maybe in the coming days of Longhorn, Microsoft should sell a standard Shorthorn version, with built-in limitation.
I believe normal users don't really know/care the differences, but if you tell them A is a standard version, it has xx features, they can also buy B with x features, people tend to choose former.
However, if you tell consumers A is a standard version with x features, they can also buy a premium version with xx features, people still tend to choose the former, but some of them will upgrade to the latter simply because it is better.
Oh by the way, naming it Shorthorn is just as bad as XP Starter, MS should have the standard Longhorn with fewer features, and come out market Longerhorn as the premium.
Microsoft just wants to get as much money and use out of XP as it can before Longhorn hits...
If you're a foreign government and you're running everything on MS then your entire infrastructure is being controlled by a foreign power. Doesn't matter how well MS wants to play it is already at a disadvantage in that regard.
The restrictions in Starter Edition (low maximum resolution, limited number of applications that can be run at once) are completely arbitrary. Microsoft hasn't put these restrictions in place because it makes the software cheaper, it has put them in place because it wants to force a cheaper version to be less functional.
The problem is that, regardless of whether users would actually need the functionality that Starter Edition doesn't have, people won't like it. People are simply averse to buying products that have been deliberately crippled. It doesn't matter whether the restrictions affect them, they feel insulted by being offered something that has been willfully hobbled.
Microsoft doesn't expect anyone to buy this. It is a statement. They are releasing this to show that competition with linux does not result in a superior product. At the same time releasing this to compete with linux is a way of insulting linux, implying that linux is crap.
And last but not least, they are releasing this so they can claim that their pricepoint is fair. They will claim that this is all they can offer at these rock bottom prices because software developments costs... etc. etc. etc. We all know how huge their profit margins are on windows so we know it's a load of crap. On the other hand it is not entirely... it looks good on paper to beurocrats who do not use the software themselves, they hope people will turn around and buy full versions, and Microsoft doesn't just have to make huge profits. They have to meet or exceed ANTICIPATED profits that are based on their previous ridiculous earnings or their stock will drop and that hits the top dogs pocketbooks.
I see a bloodthirsty battle unfolding between MS and Mandrakelinux/Conectiva. Conectiva has the government on its side, though, and will probably continue to cater for medium/small businesses even if Starter hooks the middle class desktop users. Starter hasn't got a leg to stand on for serious businesses, of course, but most brazilians are still Linux-illiterate. It seems to me that the whole scheme is pretty much doomed from the beginning for MS; your average brazilian desktop user buys pirate versions of windows -- and pretty much everything else -- while companies will be justifiably skeptical towards what Starter can actually do. The lower classes depend on government programmes for computer access, and Minister Gilberto Gil is unlikely to be persuaded to give up all his sympathies for open source for a cheaper version of Windows. Not that MS is having trouble making ends meet for financing marketing campaigns...
Why would anyone want to pay 36 USD for an operating system which isn't capable of networking and multitasking past 3 programs?
Well, I don't know. MS-DOS did pretty well.
My goodness. How can Linux compete now?!! We must quickly have a Linux starter edition people.
-ACT
People who end up with WindowsXP starter edition do not buy it directly. The OEM does for them.
THis is why I could not stand the arguments like "Consumers chose MS with their wallets..." when the anti trust trial was going on.
Lusers do not know what Linux is or care. All they know is they bought a computer and want to plug it in and use it. Do they even know what an OS is?
I looked at the WindowsXP crippled errr starter edition in the link of the story. It is crippled regardless of what MS may tell you otherwise so they can get you to fork over $200 (alot of money in third world countries) if you want features like resolutions above 800 x 600. The users in these countries never owned a pc so they have no concept of features nor care.
My point is training video's will help users of course learn the os but they will only use what comes with their computer and nothing else. Installing software or requiring them to learn is too much of an effort. Many I bet wont even click the video's because that would be too much of an effort.
The exception would be a dos oriented computer which many OEM's like HP include in the countries that install the starter edition. Since dos requires the users to actually learn commands, most will find a friend to install WindowsXP for them so they can use a mouse with the nice pretty icons.
The name of the country is Brazil. I believe Brasil was one of the plethora of viruses/worms for windows or some such.
Most Debian based distros and Fedora can be downloaded for free. You can purchase Fedora + an Official 465 page Handbook ,from Red Hat Press, covering installation, troubleshooting, networking, security, applications, ect for less than $20USD. Likewise you can purchase most Linux install Cds for less than $5.00 and it would be legal to make copies to sell on the street for $2.00 in most cases.
You get what you pay for. Sounds like about $36 of features to me
It's true in Brazil, and it's true in many Asian countries, hell, in many Eastern European countries too (where I am from).
This is the software equivalent of those first cigarettes behind the toilet block. You know, the ones that get you hooked for life.
Take me for example. I wanted to play old games with people across the internet which required an IPX network. Microsoft's home grown solution is their VPN client/eserver package which is naturally built into the entire user/security system. Anyway I wanted to use this system for gaming, just one problem: I had/have windows xp professional. This version of windows has an arbitrary limit of one VPN connection. If I want multiple VPN connections I need to buy Advanced Server. Now coming from their point of view there might be some sort of reason for this cripple ware, but coming from my point of view they want me to pay a couple thousand bucks to play old games.
How does this make me feel? Infuriated. I have yet to find a suitable replacement (there used to be a few online services which created IPX networks but you had to play by their rules and pay monthly fees). Thank you Microsoft, for dangling the carrot in front of my face, letting me smell it, and then ripping it away. The final snub is (I am told) when installing Advanced Server it asks you how many connections you want to be able to accept.
Ah well it really just comes down to me complaining, but it sure doesn't make me like Microsoft anymore. Remember when Notepad used to have an arbitrary file size limit? (The limit value wasn't arbitrary, the fact that they had it was)... Good times.
I for one think this is a very useful product. A) Buy and install XP Starter Edition. B) Download required fully functional OS using Bit Torrent. C) Burn to CD, format and install.
This already exists in several flavours. The freely-downloadable edition of Xandros limits CD burning speeds to under 4x. (there are other limits, but that's the one that I remember). Ubuntu doesn't come with support for anything but oggs out of the box--admittedly, they have thus wisely avoided liability for patent violations in doing so, but for basic users, this really means very limited multimedia support out of the box. (although this is easily remedied with a visit to the ubuntu restricted-formats wikipage) Or if you want 'stripped-down' in another sense, there's always DamnSmallLinux, Feather, and PuppyLinux. Damnsmall is under 50 MB, Feather and Puppy aren't terribly large--all of them run quite happily on very limited system resources. Linux doesn't need to compete with Microsoft on price--just perception.
Wouldn't it be illegal if they sold the same product for 2 drastically different prices in different places? I think they are just making this crapo version so they can say that the pirates have another option w/o violating the 2 prices for same product thing and then launch a big legal raping campaign against pirates in Brazil.
Frylock: "We should have cloned twenties, Jackson wouldn't have given a fuck."
I've read several stories about this stripped version of Windows, and what they all fail to mention is that it also lacks Product Activation. Sure, Product Activation in Asia is like duct taping your BMW's door shut in Detroit, but it's still significant.
People in Brazil can share their copies with their friends and family. But those of us in the rest of the non-Starter-Edition cannot. It just makes NO sense.
Corporation responds to competition. Slashdot predicts end of world. News at 11.
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
Sounds like XP Pro with a full brazillian.
But cheap just can't beat free...
A guy walks into a bar... well, I forgot the joke, but the punchline is that he's an alcoholic.
Assuming I use windows firewall. So, Antivirus: 1 program. Firefox with lotsa tabs. Any IM program. Thats all I can run at once? I hope spyware and adware dont count as running applications.
A stripped down version of Windows XP and Office XP could be infinitely better than the full versions in the USA if the right features were removed- remove active scripting and VBA from these products, take out a good percentage of the obscure features of Office that no one uses, and presto- a less bloated, more secure computing environment that just happens to have the MS logo on it. It would be a bargain provided Clippy was left out.
Hell, for 38 bucks I would give it a try if they rolled it out here and made it USABLE. Of course they won't do that, because this whole tactic is about training the next generation of PC owners (developing nations) to become dependant upon MS crack.
This is all funny to me because I've been using free and open source softare for a few years and I have a powerful GUI, tons of utilities, and can launch dozens of applications at the same time. Ubuntu with Kubuntu took a great deal less time to install than Windows does, and is a lot more fun. So in this case something free (in my opinion, anyway) is better than something merely cheap.
But the even more funny irony of this starter edition is that it actually required extra work to cripple it. It's not a product that required less work, it required the opposite (more). Think about that for a moment. No other industry could possibly work this way. To create this "cheaper" version Microsoft had to devote extra time and money to crippling it, packaging it and marketing it. To use the obligatory car-industry-versus-computer-industry analogy, it's a bit like building a complete Humvee, chopping off bits of it and selling it for the price of a used Yugo. It required all of the work of building the Humvee, plus extra time and money for a Yugo-equivalent crippling, and now sells for the Yugo price. I'll stick with my Sherman tank, and recommend Brazil does the same.
How are they going to compete? With Linux, you get a fully-functional, multi-user Operating System that doesn't restrict you at ALL, and best of all, it's FREE!
Compete? How?
A brief disclaimer, I am an american who has now been living in Brazil for the last three years.
;)
Microsoft is just following what the game industry has been doing for the past few years here.
The huge amount of pirated software and DVD's, and CD's at places around Brazil has actually caused the prices of the legitimate versions to drop dramatically. Piracy it seems does make a difference.
I can get a legitimate copy of any top shelf PC game in Brazil now for about $10 US. The only difference is it comes with a Brazil manual and a huge sticker saying NOT FOR SALE OUTSIDE OF THAILAND.
Buying a pirate copy of that same game costs: $6. (so if it's a 2 CD game, then the price is $9. if it's a 4cd game it's MORE expensive to buy the pirate version!)
Apparently the manufacturers think they can still make a profit selling games for $10 USD. They are actually trying to compete with pirates, rather than arrest them, and it seems to be working. People are buying more games, and less pirated ones.
That's not to say if Brazil wasn't blessed with an incredibly corrupt and ineffectual law enforcement, things wouldn't be different.
It lowers the chance that users will look into Linux as an alternative, and brings in a little revenue stream.
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76% don't return after their first day - can you make it in iCLOD city?
... Microsoft will learn just how useless it is to expect to win the game of Whack-A-Mole.
What I find that might even be funnier is that while Microsoft is busy dumping less expensive (and less functional) copies of Windows XP out on the market in an attempt to stave off the adoption of Linux, they may be making it harder to get people to move to Longhorn. More than one pundit has written a piece about their installed base doesn't move to the latest and greatest (and, of course, the most secure|stable|whatever ever) version of Windows because they've decided that the current version is ``good enough''. Microsoft is only compounding their installed-base problem by releasing XP-lite in Brazil. Some users will buy it to ``get legal'' but those people may be satisfied enough with XP-lite that they become a problem for MS when Longhorn finally comes out. Those who don't buy into XP-lite probably wouldn't have in the first place and will either continue running pirated versions of Windows or switch to Linux. I'd say MS loses no matter which of the three paths a Brazilian user might take.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
batshit fucking insane
Could MS perhaps direct some of their low-cost efforts towards the USA as well? $2,500 for an enterprise 2003 is ridiculous
Mens et Manus
It seems that in the many versions of Windows Starter edition, Microsoft includes a wallpaper of that country's capitol. You can see it upon login and on the box. I own Windows XP Pro and I don't even get that. What gives?
I can run more than three applications simultaneously!
I think this actuallly makes sense. MS understands the reality that they're not going to get people in 3rd world countries to pay anything like the US price. So they're coming up with an edition that will get them as much money as they can realistically expect. It will be preinstalled, just as most copies are preinstalled here. So there's not really an issue of convincing people to install it. It won't actually matter to them if people overwrite it with an illicit copy of the real thing, since they've gotten as much money by getting this preinstalled as they can reasonably expect. (In fact they might actually be better off if everyone replaces it with the real thing - there's no point having your whole user population mad at you for being forced to use a crippled product.) The only question I see is whether they wouldn't be better off just to give a 95% discount on the normal product. I assume this would get them in trouble with the people who they think might actually pay for the real thing.
I seem to recall the EU pulled a similar move so they could get a better deal from MS. It's pretty shrewd - at first they win points from the technocrats for going open source, then they win points from everybody else for getting the price of windows cut and in both cases the news reports, by a nd large, make them look good.
This has nothing to do with Linux, and everything to do with vendors complaining about how they can't compete with companies installing bootleg versions of Windows on PCs.
XP Starter Edition isn't even available in non-OEM versions.
Microsoft has information on their web site here http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/newsroom/winxp/ 08-10WinXPStarterFS.asp
"Simplified task management.
With Windows XP Starter Edition, first-time home PC users can have up to three programs and three windows per program running concurrently.
Further simplification of the operating system includes the display resolution set to 800x600 maximum and no support for PC-to-PC home networking, sharing printers across a network or more advanced features such as the ability to establish multiple user accounts on a single PC."
I bet that bastard still has Messenger...
It would be a good source for PeBuilder licenses.
Does anyone see the uncanny link between the Movie Brazil and the F/OSS - M$ Battle? I find it most prophetic that one of M$ bending points is in Brazil!
A quote from T.Gilliam on the FAQ http://www.faqs.org/faqs/movies/brazil-faq/
"What BRAZIL is really about is that the system isn't great leaders, great machinating people controlling it all. It's each person performing their job as one little cog in this thing and Sam chooses to stay a little cog and ultimately he pays the price for that." Sounds like the difference between M$ and F/OSS to me?
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
In Asia where MS has already launched the Starter Crap Crack-Whore Edition, most user simply wipe off starter edition and replace it with the $2.00 Pirate XP Pro.
Some analyst or other did a study of Linux pre-installs on cheapo machines. In most cases the Luser would wipe Linux off and go ahead and Pirate Windows anyhow, however 12% kept Linux on the Machine. 12% of the population in Asia is quite a bit especially in India and China. The 12% in Brazil, China, India, Ect could give Linux the marketshare to make shareware makers, The Big Companies like Adobe & Corel which make lower cost home versions of the software (Photoshop Elements/Corel Essentials), and small developers (game developers also) the incentive to publish to Linux. Once the they are on board then Linux would draw more users. More users would also mean that companies like Napster, Apple, Starz/ENcore wouldn't lock Linux out of the digital content (as is the case now) which would also draw even more users. Whith enough Users on board then Macromedia, Adobe, Corel, and all the big players would port bread and butter apps to Linux as their would now be a sizable market and MS would loose.
Really Microsuck isn't doing anyone a favor here except themselves. The problem is that becuase Adobe, Macromedia, Roxio (or whomever owns the software division minus Napster), ect do not port to Linux/BSD/Whatever they are leaving a huge void for the FOSS comunity, many of which have programing skills, to slowly develop apps that would compete with them simply becuase no apps exisit in that space. The problem, as JASC & Adobe are finding out with the GIMP & Inkscape/Sodipodi, is that Linux apps don't have a tendancy to stay just Linux Apps. The popular apps tend to get ported to well just about every platform when they mature. What they are finding is that instead of fighting realitivly imature buggy apps with no following, documentation, and limited features is that full grown mature apps are crossing over from Linux into MS World where they begin to eat the apps companies lunch.
So M$ is going to sell empty boxes?
Isn't Linux crippled enough, though? I mean, haven't you ever tried doing any 'simple' desktop function with it?
Starter Edition also prevents users from launching more than three applications simultaneously.
So, after surfing the net for 5 minutes with Internet Explorer, the poor user can't start any application anymore since all available process slots are occupied by worms and spyware...
Even Windows RG (Really Good Edition) works better.
Did you look at the system requirements? 64 is required, but 128MB is maximum. 1.5GB hd space is required, but 40 is maximum. But the list gets even better. It gets rid of support for multiple use accounts, computer to computer networking and sharing printers (and files?). You mentioned that it only allows three programs to run concurrently. However, there are even more stipulations on that feature of 'simplified task management.' Each program is limited to 3 windows. When you combine these facts with the 'features' you mentioned, I just can't help but wonder what Microsoft is thinking. I mean, I have had malware that has screwed up my computer that gave results similar to this OS's 'features' -Kruton
I hope to see this reduced functionality XP OS to be enhanced to give me a 'cut the crap' OS with just the basics + the ability to install just bout any win32 program.
I really dislike that the XP OS CD has millions of lines of code I'll never ever execute such as the customizable screen widgets.
Maybe linux distros could learn a thing or two about shipping 1/4th of the applications they ship now.
AFAIK, most S American computers are expected to go into universities and large businesses etc. (ie. the owner is not the user). In these cases pop-ups will do nothing but annoy, since the user is hardly going to pull out his own money to pay for upgrades.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
It's not possible to make that kind of comparison without knowing the Brazilian economy.
A computer comparable with the one you linked would not cost less then USD$1.400 here (in Brazil) and for the great majority of the ppl that's more then they make in months of hard work.
But whats to say of a country that has a importation tax of OVER 60%... Let's hope our government realizes that by taxing access to the greatest tool of your century it's only holding back your own progress.
God, PLEASE, if you exist, give Brazil the senses not to buy into this microsoft (lower-casing/deprecation of their name intentional/perpetual with me...) "reduced-price-digital-crack" addiction. Open your arms and take them to our bosom and nurture them (oh, sorry, you probably have people thinking god is a man...)
... Previous message: The Swedes discover Lotus Notes has key escrow! ... law enforcement agencies the technological capability to intercept such messages. ...
Brazil, if you're listening, REGAIN your freedom and independence. Your national security, privacy, sovereignty and more are at stake when you use a so-called operating system the encryption keys of which have to be escrowed with UNITED STATES security agencies.
See:
Roger Clarke's Crypto-Confusion
http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/II/Cry pt oConf.html
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http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/pipermail/ukcr yp to/1997-December/039896.htmlhttp://www.chiark.gree nend.org.uk/pipermail/ukcrypto/1997-December/03989 6.html
The Dishonesty of ``New Labour'' Crypto Policy
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/pipermail/ ukcrypto/1997-December/039896.html
- 4k - Cached - Similar pages
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I've seen those "men in black", once around 1994 at a company where I temped and they were there to pick up quarterly-escrowed keys. I joked, "WHo are THOSE guys? NSA comin' to pick up crypto?" Someone admonished me, with "SHHHHH!! That's EXACTLY who they are, and don't let them hear you..."
Now, surely, the NSA and other spook agencies in and outside of the US can crack your traffic in time, but YOU have right, a duty and an obligation to make it as freakin' hard for them as you can.
It's ONE thing to mandate escrowing of crypto agains your OWN populace, but to have an external entity impose that on you is nearly tantamount to war, de-facto demanding you make your systems more transparent and susceptible to monitoring, cracking, and inspecting-- remotely and nearly anonymously-- unless you baseline all your government facilities' packets and fingerpring for traffic doing weird things.
Use F/LOSS tools, get a grip on your future independence, and join the tech wagon instead of being a consumer-whore to the currently "OS" like so many other nations. Brazil, you HAVE to find your own national flavor of OS and partner with others just like Japan, Korea and China are. The crypto can be cracked, eventually, even in F/LOSS, but at least you don't have to develop a system that HAS to be reported to NSA before it even reaches your shores or backbone.
If you can't find yourselves getting off ms' digital crack, then at LEAST demand more transparency of the OS code and demand that ALL encryption be removed and made modular. DEMAND that ms indemnifies you and defrays any costs which its past, present and future trickery (convicted monopolist, ettc...) places upon you. Develop your own governmental and public-use encryption scheme, after you demand that their encryption modules be transparent so that F/LOSS modules can be dropped in. But, none of this will be useful if your students and adult users don't learn more about computers and personal responsibilities and limitations and duties to secure their systems, safeguard personal information, and learn rudimentary encryption or system-health tools.
Your future may very well depend on it.
Just "say no to digital crack", and be a little cleaner. Your future generations deserve to have their country not snagged hooked-line and sinker by an external hegemonic corporation. Sure, Central Amerrica and South America have historic government and enterprise issues dogging your lands from the past, but don't let an outsider money-groping convicted monopolist steer your country. I'm not saying this as a "rabid Open Source Looney", but as a person who believes in right over might, REGARDLESS of w
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Maybe no one has told MS that pirated software, at least in impoverished/less affluent countries is still of benenfit to them. Here's why:
If people are generally dependent upon MS software for their computing needs, whether it be home, office, data center, whatever, the number of people using MS are that many people not using other products. Market share, in some ways, may be far more important than revenue, at least in the long run.
Name brand familitarity is worth more then operability, at least from a consumer standpoint.
So let's say that I get three viruses and they're all running. Not only will WinXP SE prevent any more viruses from running, but it will prevent me from getting any more viruses from, say, browsing the web or checking email. Ingenious.
- Borland C++ 5.0 IDE
- emacs 21.3
- FoxIt PDF reader
- gcc 3.3
- GIMP
- MikTeX
- Mozilla
- QCD player for MP3s and CDs
- BitTorrent
However, since I don't have a win2k CD (it came pre-installed when I bought the computer), I can't get Chinese-text-support or printer-drivers for it. It's been fun to play with, but I've already formatted half of the hard drive as ext2fs, and will finish installing Linux as soon as I have a chance.The only program I've found that really makes it run slow is the FreeNet Daemon (and I run that under the Sun JDK 1.5); everything else is fine. Then again, I obviously have avoided some of the real resource hogs like Office 2k3 and Acrobat 6.
How much would you bet that Microsoft would prefer if people got pirate versions of Windows "Less-Crippled Edition" instead of trying, say, Linux?
I know I would, if I was in their shoes.
http://www.dieblinkenlights.com
I don't know how it's going to handle the application count but if you have three pieces of spyware running at the same time, you may end up in a situation where no applications start.
Dell Brazil currently sells the same 3000 for BRL 1700 ($660). Is this BRL1700 before or after the 60% inport tax?
How simple do you want?
I can do everything I *need* on Linux. I've got my web browser and mailreader, some media players, an office suite (OpenOffice), instant messaging...
the only thing I can't do is play my old Windows games. I'm a bit annoyed at that, but not too much. When it comes to getting work done, Linux actually does it for me better than Windows does-- the apps are good enough for me, they're free, and I have a choice of desktop environments in which to run them. When was the last time you tried linux on the desktop?
US$2.00 per CD is the going rate in the pirate software markets of Southeast Asia. (at least as of the last time I was in Manila, the going rate was PHP 100 per CD, or just under US$ 2.00)
svchost,
:P
services,
winlogon
hmmmm.. no explorer
hmmm... dumb...
I've been calling ms' crap the "digital crack of software."
But, along the lines of "crack", or being "cracked"...
To be truthful, I still use windoze 98, but I sequester the bitch, contain it inside Win4Lin, run on my Mandrake (err, not yet Mandriva, heeh?)) Linux boxen. That is because I NEED and am ADDICTED to Lotus SmartSuite. At least the addiction is in a smaller, less virus-targetted audience. And, I am not on SO/OO.o yet because they stubbornly and maddeningly refuse to fix the damned document master/container/link issue where when I link an external doc, I get a "rule" or box that does not show the flow of my docs. There is not even a decent 'Doc Skimmer'-like or page sorter view tool. The icons are not crisp and tight, still too gray/grey for my taste, and not as friendly/polished as the older, somewhat non-longer-feature-full SmartSuite.
Base, almost baseless for and debasing to, end users is nowhere near user-friendly. It's like SO/OO.o have their heads in the sand with mercury in their ears, and lead over their eyes... They m'f'ingly re-effing-FUSE to mimic SmartSuite to the extent legally possible in the name of diffusing Open Source OO.o to the community. It's like somebody at Sun/SO/OO.o is a mole for ms, stymying the would-e flattering mimicry of SmartSuite.
I hope IBM, in patent-revamping swing they're on, grants Sun & OO.o unfettered leeway speed their asses up in fixing and improving in SO/OO.o what needs correcting instead of adding yet MORE stuff that is not making it competitive enough to pull more users from ms orifice.
IBM/SUN, PLEASE purge the ms shills from your ranks and de-kink the problems going on. If SmartSuite is going to keep its limited government/corporate userbase, then PLEASE, at least, allow Open Source to benefit from as much SmartSuite featureset-copying as you can. IBM's going into the "services" sector anyway, and it's not as if anyone in IBM/Lotus really care to OpenSource SmartSuite.
Hell, IBM, if you gave ME the code, I could run a project and deploy some SmartSuite-based apps I cannot POSSIBLY effectivley with Open Source/Linux users until SmartSuite is ported, or I find and trust others to faithfully port/reproduce my work. And, I am not even a project manager or engineer. But, I have PASSION! PASSION! something that IBM/Lotus hhave ghasped away in resignation to a non-sweet 2.5% suite market share. I imagine the quirky OO.o/SO combination will surpass SmartSuite in under a year, and it STILL will lack what SmartSuite has has for over a decade:
--WordPro- A crisp, tight word processor
--Approach- a polished, fine-as-hell end-user, yet reasonably powerful database front end
I HOPE MySQL can come out with an Approach-Like interface for the user side of things. That is, if IBM/Lotus don't get there first.
David Syes
(swills 500 ccs of thorazine/bromidine combination...)
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Being from Ireland, I would have to agree. Piracy is pretty rampant here in Brazil.
whining for a bit of temporary relief isn't the solution. the solution is to make the effort to get the ass-fucker off of the customer.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
You sir, just earned a cookie.
That's a bloody good point that I didn't even consider.
This is sick, to release a product which can
:S
be copied an infinate amount of time to be crippled in this manner. The only good thing is
that it probaly costs M$ to take the time to go
through and cripple it.
I wonder if this was done to discourage
users from buying cheap Brazillian copies.
- Piracy run rampant around here outside the business places. One can get a full XP around the corner of bigger cities for a dollar.
- 95% of the private people with a legal windows license have it because it was budled with the PC.
- The federal governenmmet already told to the press they will not use MS products full or crippled.
So, in my opinion, unless they strike a deal with some states or a current major customer which needs to "upgrade" for some reason, it's a dead duck.
Scientia est Potentia
Microsoft got a "deal" with our Mother f^D^D^D^D^D^D^Dminister of economy, and the same plan, will come with windows XP home pre-installed. Result: the machines will cost 150u$s more than in Brazil. (They are lousy celerons) :)
By the way...I am a high-payed programmer, my salary is about 800u$s, even I can't afford Windows. Posting from ubuntu
With all those crippling limitations, they'd better pop an Ubuntu CD in the Starter Edition box if they don't want their prospective customers to feel cheated. Because, Ubuntu offers a nicely packaged OS suited for beginners, with tons of applications and NO limit on screen resolution, networking or multitasking and it's what everyone will end up using anyhow. Cpt. Obvious cannot stress enough: MS sucks.
Lindows is exactly that... everyone runs as administratior, and all the other wonderful windows features - in a linux distro
Obviously anyone could install Linux, or pirate the full OS. But picture this:
.exe that you run that "fixes" you with the near equivalent of the full version (legally), it's still kind of amazing.
I write a program that gets around the big limits . Maybe it also ads back in support for a few minor things (network printers might be hard to reimplement, but setting PROGRAM_LIMIT from 3 to 32767 shouldn't be too hard).
Now, my understanding is that this would be *completely legal*. Probably, this would also be inevitable. Meaning that, Microsoft is selling (and knows that they are) the full version (or damn close to it) for a tiny fraction of the cost. So the entire thing is just to preserve the price in other places.
I guess this isn't a big deal or any kind of surprise, but given that there will undoubtably be a little
From the start I have always felt that this was some cheap marketing ploy that sounds better than it really is - it's selling emerging markets on a dream and then leaving them stranded in some "almost there but not really" hell.
I mean think about it. Many other posters have already noted the extremely (and needlessly) crippled nature of the underlying engine so what exactly is Microsoft selling? Their interface. They are trying to further entrench Windows as a desktop standard but this time in some crazy "practice OS". That's right Brasil, step up and learn how to do things the MS way and then when you have totally bought into it emotionally (through familiarity) then you are more likely to buy into it financially. This is purely and simply MS Windows Brand awareness in sheeps clothing.
I Sincerely hope that the Governments of the markets that this product is being pushed into see it for what it is and forbide any govt. dept. from investing in this crazy scheme of dependence.
They should call is Microsoft Windows "My First Computer" edition at least it doesn't try to hide the belittling nature of it.
Is there any kind of LUG organisation where by there can be a regional register of support contracts for a particular distro (maybe Ubuntu) of linux that is sold for say $30 and that includes a certain degree of support that is covered by a local registered LUG and profits are distributed to the LUGS themselves. Different support contracts have different prices and different support agreements and skill levels depending on the circumstance
I know this is an extremely broad description and that in itself it isn't enough to answer the whole problem but I would be interested in seeing such organisations develop that honestly wants to foster a feeling of good will about technology while giving people the tools they need to succeed.
Maybe one day OSS might also mean Open Source Support who knows?
I just can't be bothered.
I think we can all agree that selling, or "bundling" a crippled version of Windows is idiotic. HOWEVER, it will discourage slick businessmen from bringing these PCs back to US since no one here would buy a crippled yet legit OS + PC package, no matter how low the price.
Also, I am sure Dell, etc. wouldn't be too happy having to compete with some manufacturer of PCs that got a break on a full version of windows where Dell would have to pay a lot more for the same copy.
By making it different, they are solving that problem.
I am sure you'll be able to hack it and make it normal again... Does ANYONE remember Windows NT Workstation 4.0/3.51? By making 2 registry changes, you could have made your workstation ($200?) behave and appear to other apps as a SERVER version of Windows ($1000?)
Different pricing points in different countries for identical goods are very common for electronics manufacturers - I know one person who went on vacation to another country for a week and brought back a "gray market" plasma TV. It cost him $7,000 there and it sells here for $15,000. Even with flight and hotel expenses he still came out ahead. He doesn't have a US warranty for that TV but that's the risk he was willing to take.
Brazil: A country that uses proprietary software with hidden file formats is not an independent country. This is particularly true when considering software from the United States. The U.S. government spends a huge amount on spying on other countries. Some of the spying is done to benefit U.S. companies to allow them to compete with foreign companies.
Brazil: Do you want to be a partner of a company that has broken the laws of its own country? If that company has in the past shown little respect for the laws of its own country, would it respect the laws of Brazil?
Brazil: Remember that hidden elements of the U.S. government supported the military coup against democracy in Brazil, without the knowledge of most U.S. citizens.
Am I the only one who finds it a bit funny that the only Russian screenshot is of the "Security Center"????
Mod parent down. THIS is insightful? What ever happened to "COMMON SENSE"? Or is Slashdot all filled with ART MAJORS* now?
*or Apple Fan Boys.
I seem to recall being able to run only 3 applications in Windows 95. Hmm, I wonder if the Windows Key + Right Click bug has returned, heh heh.
At least we're getting that assurance that Microsoft has put the time and effort into building an operating system that truely sucks. We know Brazil needs the Genuine Microsoft Advantage.
Why do I get this strange concern that some dumbfuck politician is actually going to vote for this thing *only* because Linux looks different?
A much better way to spend government money would be to hire software developers, paid on the basis of how many bugs they close on any project in sourceforge!
They aren't that poor. They need to provide education for their children, and a computer with Internet access provides educational experiences.
What I don't understand, is why cripple the OS?
1. They're selling the original XP, that has been downgraded. It's not like they originally made the crippled XP and sold it for x dollars, then later made an upgraded XP for 4 times x dollars.
2. Wouldn't the crippled XP make them look worse than they are now ("... disabled support for multiple user accounts; networked printers; the ability to personalize desktops with multiple looks and feels for different users; and support for screen resolutions above 800 X 600 DPI (dots per inch). Starter Edition also prevents users from launching more than three applications simultaneously...")
It's not like M$ is hurting for money, so why spend the extra time to cripple it? Why not just sell the regular versios at a lower cost? They would gain more from it than the crippled version. Look at places like china, where you can buy "pirated" versions for 1/10 of the price.
If Microsoft does indeed have monopoly power (e.g., they face a downward sloping demand curve) then they would maximize their profits by price discrimination. Price discrimination means charging each group of customers the maximum amount that they are willing or able to pay for the product or service. This is the winning strategy for any monopoly assuming that they are not legally restricted from price discriminating. Thus, this type of behavior by Microsoft is not surprising, but rather entirely expected as per the textbook examples of unrestricted monopolies.
Are any of these starter editions already out in public? And also any release dates for any of the unreleased ones?
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
A bit more, a bit less depending on the current foreign exchange rates. That's the present price for a cracked XP copy and that's will the price for BOTH versions in Brazilian streets one week after the "Starter" crippleware hits the OEM vendors.
Children who have used the Windows Starter Edition will think that Linux is amazingly powerful. Good sales campaign for Linux. Thanks, Microsoft!
You're kidding, right? That was sarcastic post you replied to.
Wow, you're right...
:)
It does sound crazy
-2A
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
I just realized that I said the wrong thing: "Windows is a little different from *nix in the sense that, although an application is a process, a process is *not* necessarily an application." To clarify, think about what happens when you run "ps" - you get a list of your processes, right? That includes applications *and* daemons. With Windows, although your apps will be included in the Task Manager's "Processes" list, not all of your processes will show up in the "Applications" list. That's all. Sorry for the confusion.
- Rory [Microsoft Employee] | Free dirt: neopoleon.com
The celeron processors have a smaller L2 cache than their equiv pentium processor. L2 cache being SRAM is expensive to produce, so removing it (well, actually, not producing it on the chip in the first place) actually reduces the production cost.
From what I remember of the 486SX/DX thing, the DX had an on-chip FPU but the SX didn't - or in fact the SX did, but due to manufacturing process, the FPU was damaged and so disabled. So they either sell them for less, or they bin them.
This is totally different from stripping out/disabling parts of code from a piece of software (which costs extra for MS to do).
-2A
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
Microsoft Windows XP Third World Country Edition
;)
anyone have a product key
i live in a small country in northern europe, we aint exactly poor but we earn usually less money here than the european and american workers that have the same job.
most here people dont buy windows here, they use some pirate version or have chosen linux instead. cause they just can't afford to spend money on software. besides the local people here really have no respect for software as a product.
russia is right beside us, people there earn even less. bill gates in his wildest dream can't sell no windows starter edition over here (they have launched it there, but believe me, there is no progress on selling there). i wouldn't wonder if their government would use pirated versions of microsofts tools too.
brazil is somewhat on the same level of economy as russia. a big country, and no money whatsoever (at least on the hands of microsoft's target group).
if you give a brazillian a choice to buy a limited windows version, pirate a windows version or use linux, he will choose one of the two last, no doubt about it.
none is really interested in buying a limited version of windows in a country where a solid worker earns the fee of window's licence in 1-2 months.
I'd tell you the chances of this story being a dupe, but you wouldn't like it.
Garbage is garbage, regardless of how much you charge for it.
Ok. Let me understand correctly. Microsoft spent (a lot of money) crippling their own software, so that they could offer something cheap to the people of Brazil. They are competing against something that is free, not just price but freedom also. Software that has (just over) 100,000 applications for it over at SorceForge, and approximately the same number again that run on it from proprietary vendors. There are no strings to the freedom except that which is free stays free. Brazil has a future modifying to it's own needs wants and desires. There is nothing crippled about the Free software. You can (lile Lawrence Livermore, Argonne, Sandia --US National Laboratories--) build supercomputers with it, including 48 of the current top 50, including #1, #2 and #3. Microsoft has promised clustering technology "like Linux" for over 10 years, and have failed to deliver. Their clusters are a team of up to a maximum of 16 players, of which one is on the field at any given time. If the player comes up lame, another goes onto the field (but always just one at a time). Linux clusters have everyone on the field at a time, and the team can be tens of thousands (an army). Linux recently beat Solaris 10 on identical hardware in a very well respected database transaction comparison. Microsoft is way out of the game in the comparison, yet they want to go against Linux with crippleware? Just so that they can squeeze people with little money later on? No. I wouldn't take their junk no matter how much they spent on it. Brazil deserves better than crippled with strings, no future and no choice.
I am not an economist.
In a hi-tech market, the R&D cost is much greater than the manufacturing costs, and marginal costs are much less then average:
dC/dq << C/q
where C(q) = cost to produce q pieces.
This way, if you want to release a cheaper product without undermining the market for the expencive one, you can
(1) make r&d twice, pay twice the cost, collect twice the price for both
(2) cripple the expencive one, ???, profit.
(3) totally lower the price, go out of business, let your competitors rape the customers
Corps tend to choose (2) and it's somewhat good for the public: gamers buy GHz and real people buy workhorse machines and research is done once, not twice. (next post already pointed it out).
Expamles are countless: USRobotics sportsler and courier modems, 486SX, celerons (at least some of them), as well as Qt, Star/Open Office, RHEL/Fedora...
Those, who can, buy, those, who can't, buy too.
It's not crippling product, it's doing the expensive research once, not twice.
And yes though I've never used XP Stopped Edition I think it's crippled a bit too much, and could be harder to use than Linux for those with no computer experience.
But Brazil is trying to get more independence, and possibly won't take it anyway. I'd rather see my country to go Linux, too...
WYSIWIG, but what you see might not be what you need
Many a right-wing capitalist believes that people are poor because they are stupid.
Brazillians are on average poorer than Americans hence, by that logic, are more stupid. Stupid people are more likely to be convinced to pay for a crippled version of Windows in contrast to just using a superior (to the non-crippled Windows) Free operating system.
This ignorant arrogance will be Microsoft's downfall.
Stick Men
...only allow a maximum of 3 windows at one time. Looks like Starter Edition is immune to the GNAA's Last Measure script.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
How can anyone say microsoft is in competition? XP starter edition, a limited OS that you pay for. Linux, a robust open source OS. Where is the competition in that?
this arbitrary 3 process limit could be used as part of a typical M$ ploy to eliminate the open source compentition-- for example, they might well configure SE to count all separate apps in office as one app and open office as 6 discreet ones, or whatever. what better way than to have a too low limit, and then make exception for their own products.
just the sort of slimy thing that they are famous for...
Can it be? A low-cost version of Windows? I wouldn't mind using Windows, but the cost of being stuck with a proprietary operating system which is controlled by a single vendor is just so high...
Please let it be true -- MS reducing the cost of Windows by giving freedom to the users would be a wonderful, wonderful thing.
Somebody get that guy an ambulance!
MS Plans Low-Cost Windows for Brazil
This just in! Open-source community plans low-cost version
of Lin...ah, nevermind.
This just in! Microsoft plans working version of
Windows. Er, nope, wait, that one was April Fool's.
Microsoft plans a lot of things. Will they deliver on this one, or
are they really just waiting to see if Brazil even cares? If Brazil's
government doesn't sign up for a million licenses, wanna bet
that Microsoft will conveniently forget its "plans"?
"Microsoft killed my company, I hold a personal grudge. I don't use Microsoft products and neither should you."-JWZ
We'll make Windows more competitive in Brazil by making it shittier!
This page was generated by a Barrel of Circus Midgets, and that is the way I like it!!!
This user seems to be copying high-modded posts from earlier stories without attribution:
4 7529
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=112588&cid=95
"But sir," exclaims the beggar, "I am but a poor beggar, and have only the single dollar I've scraped together over the course of the day."
The Gentlemen smiles benignly, drops the treat to the ground, grinds it under his heel and takes a big steaming dump on it.
"There, my wretched young friend", he intones, in what he thinks is a warm, kindly voice, "I'm sure it's worth only a dollar now!".
And at this point my shitty allegory ends lamely with some other chap simply giving the beggar a good, wholesome meal for free, or something.
----
You know what I think? Brazil should take Microsofts' shitty, insulting, purposely crippled "gift" and tell them to fuck off.
PS
For the slower amongst you, Microsoft was the rich gentleman, by the way ;)
I'm sorry but releasing a crippled "starter edition" to certain countries in the world is not called competition, it's called an insult, plain and simple.
It's like saying: "oooh these poor countries don't have fast PC's so let's give them a small simple operating system that doesn't do much so they can catch up with us"
Well I got news for you. Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand are cetainly not the primitive people you think they are. And CERTAINLY NOT India and Russia. India and Russia are at the FOREFRONT of development and I'm pretty damn sure that you can get state of the art PC's over there with a perfectly packaged pirated copy of Windows Xp SP2.
India is the Silicon Valley of the far east for christ's sake!
Anyways Microsoft is really acting like the arrogant superpower like this. Stop CONDASCENDING!!!!
Y
This idiot 'redswinglinestapler' is copying comments from previous articles and posting them verbatim. Please add to your foes list and mod the shithead into oblivion whenever you get the chance.
Example, here's a comment I posted.
Spot the difference
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For all intensive porpoises your a bunch of rediculous loosers
Didn't MS establish discounted windows distributions for Asia as well?
I guess Americans who buy windows will be subsidizing other countries MS fixes
error 666 god is unavailable to reply to messages at the moment as heaven's 2003 server is being rebooted.
That we don't have computers at our homes?
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
This idiot 'redswinglinestapler' is copying comments from previous articles and posting them verbatim. Please add to your foes list and mod the shithead into oblivion whenever you get the chance.
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For all intensive porpoises your a bunch of rediculous loosers
Wow... that was hillarious. Is this Microsoft responding to Linux? Hahahaahahahaahah! Ohhh sorry.... this is worthy of Troll points. Lets see. People can either A) download windows or B) download linux with little risk of any sort of legal danger. Windows is common, friendly, and well marketed. Linux is thorny, obscure and difficult to install. This is clearly a shot at offering a low cost alternative to piracy. Or at least somting to point at if asked what they did to try and fight piracy. While Brazil isn't a third-world despot it like most of this planet has a large population of citizens unable to afford a full price Windows. They will either pirate it or buy it 1 or 2 might actually try linux.
I agree. I remember when my dads p2-450, 128Mb was stupidly fast for me.
Nowadays im used to an xp1800 of my own and find whenever im working on my dads computer, its irritatingly sluggish to do the things i want.
No doubt also when i upgrade again i`ll find that my xp1800 was irritatingly sluggish for things.
Who cares what crudware MS tries to foist on people ?
For the average user (internet browsing, email, music playback, DVD watching, working with a few office documents, storing digicam pictures, printing, using a few games) Ubuntu is a far superior solution. And it's full of Open Source Linux goodness to boot. If you doubt this try it out for yourself. Install it, run the "hoary after install helper", turn off spatial browsing then marvel at how right they've got it. Really.
I'm sorry to say that for the desktop user it makes every other Linux distro I've ever seen look shoddy, cluttered and not thought out properly. All it would take is a user to look at the MS crudware running side by side with Ubuntu. No sane person would ever choose the MS cheapware.
If that's the way the competition is going to go, I'll beat both Windows and Linux by shipping them a bunch of blank CDs.
screen resolutions above 800 X 600 DPI (dots per inch).
On my 17" monitor that would be a resolution of 10400 x 6000.
I think they could have left the "DPI" out.
Lift out of order. Bubble sort in progress.
Annnnnnnd. The rest of the world.
In America, you spam computers In Soviet Russia, computers spam you!
But is this really an attempt to combat piracy? I suspect that it is a strategy to encourage it.
If cheap computers already come with Linux installed and a set of applications that meet all the typical user's web browsing and word processing needs, some percentage of users may be tempted to save the $2 for a pirated Windows and stick with Linux. They could then be lost to Microsoft for good. This is the worst scenario for Microsoft. Although they are unlikely to say so publicly, for them a pirated version of Windows is better than a legitimate version of Linux. Any money they get from the crippled Windows is just icing on the cake.
If Brazil stays in the Microsoft fold, they can make the anti-piracy squeeze when the country gets richer. On the other hand, if, at that point, a sizeable proportion of Brazilians are happy with legitimate free software alternatives, a squeeze will likely push more users in the free software direction.
for-the-people.org
No one is soooo stupid.
I wonder how well is windows XP starter edition is succeeding in asia, but people here would NEVER use such "thing". We cumplain about winndows XP "full" enought already.
Also, there are a thousand projects with the same goal. Even microsoft already presented a proposal, whose, of course, was dumped.
For instarce, there is a proposal of a U$100 laptop. It would be linux running on a risc anchitecture (I think PowerPC (NOOO! Not apple!!)). Cool, huh?
Also, Sergio Amadeu, Brasil chief IT, already apeared here on Slashdot for badmouthing microsoft.
And PS: Please write BraSil. It is as easy to write as BraZil, but it is standart compliant (lol).
I intend to live forever. So far, so good.
And probably they do this with hard drives also? Disabling platters on some models...
Display adapters also come to mind.
And some CD/DVD -drives.
Your plea omits one important appeal:
"Just say no to large gifts and other bribes sweetening this offer."
How much does it cost to rent/buy a public official in Brazil these days anyway?
http://csis.zoovy.com/product/0892064153
Just a little thought here: After reading all about this linux vs. win there is so much more you get from a linux distribution, and I'm not talking about the down-to-core os-tools, but the applications that you can ship with the os, like free office applications, good web browsers, image editing and so forth and so on. Windows is just crap without a ton of other software downloaded or bought, with an own linux distribution you can distribute a complete pc-home-work-machine, not a dumb terminal that needs external software to be really useful (m$ paint anyone? :)
Why are you giving free karma to this whore? This comment was ripped from here:
4 8246
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=112588&cid=95
$200 million to secure the first 1 million *MACHINES*...
You can bet your ass that in a "lower-middle income" house in Brazil, the whole family will use the same box.
Also, given the economies of scale and other influences MS could bring to bear, they could probably do a box for $200 if they wanted.
The hardware would probably be so crap that WinXP wouldn't run on it, but hey...
I really think we dont need this shit OS here. I prefer 10000x Linux distributions than Microsoft OS. Brazil are coming to Open Source, we dont need cheap and crap M$ OS.
Isn't windows already crippled?
Just spent 3 hours helping a friend restore his pc because it got infected with spyware/viruses/bots.
I swear it sure seemed crippled to me.
Had my laptop with ubuntu on it and I swear it was crippled compared to that.
"On the one hand, I always thought that multi-user stuff was trouble for most first-hand computer users, and wouldn't mind seeing it gone"
I think on Windows XP its a bit confusing.
But on the new iMac I got for the kids, OS X.3 has multi-user capability, and the kids have taken to it pretty easily. In fact, I didn't know it was there until they started using it.
So the evidence is that people can use it pretty well, and it works nicely. I think you and I are just old.
Down: -1 Rambling Nut Case.
personally, i will find satisfaction in seeing micro$oft beat down by a company called.. MANDRIVA! *chuckles to self while coworkers think up 'lay off the crack' jokes* i'd go for a company with a stupid name over a stupid company anyday.
I think this is actually a bit funny because it's different from their recent strategy of spreading some major FUD about the linux adoptment by the government (some local MS employees said something to the likes of "This will hurt Brazil economy in the long run", "The country won't be able to stay competitive", really threatening). Now they're trying to play buddy-buddy and offering a crippled OS. Thanks, but no thanks.
The sooner we switch the better. Windows is still largerly used (pirated, of course) because that's what people have grown with. This is the kind of people who call Microsoft Word "The Windows". If, instead, this people had learnt to edit their documents on KDE with OpenOffice, it wouldn't make the slightiest difference for them today, it'd be the same thing. Damn, I have to install Mandrake or something on my parents' computer.
There's no going back now. I'm a Windows developer and I have no real grudges against MS (no more than I have for every other software company anyways), but everybody who thinks Brazil should be a market dominated by MS is completelly out of their minds. Scales between the two economies are too large for it to work properly.
The sooner we switch, the better.
As a brazilian citzen, I can say a word or two about our average computer user... They're clueless, as any other computer illiterate in the world. So, if it's not crippled for GAMES most users won't notice the difference.
Also, most of the users use whatever OS that came with their machines. I don't know of any home user that bought a LEGAL copy of Windows to update.
This "Windows Starter Edition" wont do any good for Microsoft here. The home user is already using Windows, so sales wont grow up. The small business are using Linux SERVERS, not desktops... so thei're attacking the wrong front here. And, finally, the governament is commited with OpenSource.
It would be a lot better if they created a "Microsof Office Start Edition" to fight OpenOffice. This is what is really driving people to Linux Desktops around here.
---- You know how some doctors have the Messiah complex - they need to save the world? You've got the "Rubik's" complex
...this has been known. The dictatorship was largerly supported by USA after it was stablished, that's why even today people still see Brazil as a colony of USA of sorts. At the time, they were afraid Brazil would turn into a communist country.
It's a bit of a double-edged sword though. USA helped industrialization in Brazil by bringing in technology... it was a major step we probably wouldn't be able to do by ourselves, look at most of the others south american countries. But at the same time our goverment adopted some ill-fated decisions (copying USA solutions) that proved pretty wrong in the long run and hurted our economy and development. Some of them were still felt until very recently, like the crippled state of our telecommunications network, which was so shitty that a phone line costed as much as a car.
When analysing this release, you need to have in mind some facts about Brazil (my country :))
- The minumung wage is about U$100. MOST brazilian (about 60%) earn at mos 2 times this. (U$ 200).
- I think (thumb guess) that about 10% of the brazilians have a computer at home.
The intend of brazilian government (and I think so microsoft) is to make possible to a broad range of brazilians to buy a simple computer.
Those people probably never used or even know what they can do with a computer!
So, for a very-low-end user, this windows configuration is enough! They probably will use only a browser and a text editor!
Of course if you know what is a *NIX system, this Starter Edition is not for you!
Could the pressure of Brazil's overtures toward Linux be forcing Microsoft Brasil to compete?
In other news, Apple's new version of Mac OS X Tiger forces Microsoft to release Longhorn earlier.
Seriously people, how is this considered news? Or is it just a perfect opportunity for M$ bashing?
Please excuse me, I'm new here...
So how come the "Starter Edition" with all it's crippling restrictions is supposed to be so great but M$ wants to tag a European edition of Windows with no media player a "reduced media edition"?
If being asked to not bundle one program due to concerns over monopoly power abuse deserves a "reduced" name doesn't the "Starter Edition" deserve a "Multiple Reduced Functions for Suckers" name?
Microsoft's abuse of it's monopoly position is so great that it even involves the naming of their products.
This computer is more near R$1.400 (US$540) than US$1.400. And I am taking into accout pieces bought on legitimate stores (that pays the importation tax) at Nort East region, that spends a big deal on transportation.
Rethinking email
...although I don't want to do anything illegal. So I hack on wine http://www.winehq.org/ instead.
I guess I can understand this move from a business perspective, but it sure seems awful tacky, doesn't it? I mean, it's not like they started out with Windows XP Starter Edition, then spent a great deal of money adding on to it to create the Home/Professional editions, thus justifying the extra expense. They merely took a perfectly good Home/Professional/Whatever edition and spent a good deal of money crippling it.
This is just another example of the "what the market will bear" principle. If MS was selling this stuff for what it's worth, they wouldn't have the untold hundreds of billions that they do. Oh well, enough ranting.
You might recall how people could turn their NT Workstation in to NT Server with some registry tweaks. I wonder if the same will happen in this case, or if it is even possible?
But God demonstrates his love for us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us - (Romans 5:8)
Sadly true. This site explains what's going on.
they're selling starter edition at a huge loss in one market that they otherwise wouldn't be able to sell in at all, apart from that activity being subsidized by other markets.
the slashdot socialists should like it, fundamentally. those that can afford to, pay more, which lets MS offer software to those that cant afford it at a loss.
i could make the argument that for the average computer user, XP starter is a heck of a lot better than any linux distro, and if XPS is something MS is taking a loss on, it's down right charitable of them to try and target lower income situations (and making the higher income portions of the market place pay for it)
naturally i'm just a bit too cynical to buy that completely, but it probably bears consideration. set aside any fanboy hatred of MS for a moment, and consider what will get people in developing countries on the computer/internet wave with the least effort... XP starter edition, or gentoo ?
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
Do they really expect to woo over Brazil with a cheap Windows verison. As you know "cheap = bad". It will crash as soon as soon as it boots.
In America, you spam computers In Soviet Russia, computers spam you!
You are asking the wrong question. You should be comparison shopping. How much does it cost relative to a public official in the US?
If it costs more than in the US
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
But there IS something to see here.
This is NOT just any corporation responding to competition.
This is a monopoly responding to attempted competition. Always interesting to watch.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Rather than "Starter Edition," here's some suggestions, if anyone from Redmond just happens to read this. (I know they won't do it - it's more a mental exercise while I eat)
;) I'll probably get modded Offtopic, but it was worth it.
1. Go download this, and make it natively multi-user if it isn't already. Give it a strong native security model, too...you can get some ideas here, and the best part is, they won't mind you doing that if you don't try and patent said ideas. Also, modularise your GUI, and don't prevent users from accessing the CLI when they want to.
2. Have the CLI composed of this and this for us CLI types.
3. Make the Add/Remove Programs panel essentially a net-aware frontend for either this or this.
4. Use this for hardware detection. Also re drivers, get rid of the suicidal policy of seeing third-party hardware vendors as the enemy, and actually support them...via tools, docs, etc. These people are your friends...they'll help you stay relevant.
5. Download this and use it as your default FS, and then get this and this, (although you already seem to know about this last one) and incorporate both of those into your stock UI. You've essentially got WinFS right there, without all the added complexity you'd no doubt throw into it if you tried to code it from scratch.
6. For the Agent angle, incorporate the last point, as well as putting help/docs in a non-binary format, making them searchable with this, converting said search results for use with this, and then use the AIML output as input for something like this. Also, instead of making the agent a tightly anthropomorphic personality, make it more generic, and more as though it's simply "the operating system" communicating with a user, rather than that dog or Clippit instead.
7. Give Outlook a major overhaul. This and this are examples of directions it IMHO should go in.
Just some random ideas, anywayz. Dreaming's fun.
So why not ship it to South America, too? We paid people to castrate it down to this level, so we need a return on our investment.
We're also planning on shipping this thing to Africa and the mideast.
what this tells me is microsoft will rip people off if the country generally accepts being ripped off. only in other locales, where people actually realize that microsoft products are overpriced, will they compensate for this and readjust their pricing. does microsoft HAVE to sell XP Pro for 250US ++? no.. but they can, because most consumers are stupid and lazy, so they do..
And who cares, anyway? The way I see it, Windows won't be a good OS until fifteen years after Microsoft releases all of their code under the GPL. This is because:
When Microsoft releases the code, many people who are currently stuck with Windows being a piece of junk will begin to squash bugs that bother them, add features they need, remove features they don't need, or more specifically, set it up so the OS can be configured in much the same was as you have lots of compile-time options available for installing Linux. However, it will take nearly a decade for most of the OS to be rewritten from the ground-up, taking a lot of factors into consideration that Microsoft could never do, being that it is always in a rush to release the darn thing, chock-full of bugs as it is, to make a profit.
It will take an additional five years or so, once the OS has stabilized and become useful, as well as usable, before it will be made into a first-class product by the open-source community.
The way I see it, the most important use for this code would be to make Wine implement all Windows calls, from DOS all the way through the newest version of Windows, with all kinds of "smart" logic built into Wine that will cause the functions to execute in the most computationally "correct" way possible, emulating only certain bugs for certain applications when it is known that those applications depend on the presence of those bugs.
Otherwise, Windows is useless, and therefore, I don't see Brazil jumping on the Windows bandwagon when they're perfectly happy with Linux.
Does the "3 Applications" limit apply against spyware, virusses etc.?
If so ... it would almost be useful! I abandoned Windows when trying to figure out which processes were bogus ate too deeply into my productive time.
Three is of course too small a limit, but I might not have invested the effort to flee Win if it had a feature like: "You have set your process limit to 54. A new process called 'dsaZombie' wants to start. Allow/Deny?"
--- Attorneys Assisting Citizen-Soldiers & Families -
If Microsoft is lowering their price in one place, they'll be raising some place else to compensate. Proably a country where their monopolistic practices only merits a slap on the wrist.
Isn't it nice to know that, in our wonderous capitalistic economy in the US, that our money is subsidizing Brazillian copies of Windows?
concernig brazil i think it's all about money, that is i meen bribes or kickbacks (or how to say it in english). probably some brazilian officials pay microsoft money for this 'starter edition' ( from state budget of course) and part of this money by verbal agreement just returns to their pockets. and all sides of bargain are contented.
MS Plans Low-Cost Windows for Brazil
In other news, 184 million Brazilians sign in relief as the first rays of daylight and fresh air begin to stream into their homes. Thanks, Microsoft!
Terry Gilliam could not be reach for comment.
microsoft (lower-casing/deprecation of their name intentional/perpetual with me...)
You're my hero.
Tuttle
Brazil, if you're listening, REGAIN your freedom and independence. (...)"
Sorry, God is unavaible at the moment. But his substitute has already dealt with this. You see, the Micromind proposal for shipping the "Connected PC" with its Windows X-tremelly Poor Sucker Edition was already rejected by the Brazillian government. I'm sorry I don't have an English link, but you can use the fish.
I can, however, translate the words of Sérgio Amadeu, director of the Federal Data Processing Service (SERPRO):
- Please, ignore everything written above.
Upcoming 'third' world nations have one big advantage:
... well, don't mind me posting this anonymously, I do need my job ....
bright people
great instruction
motivation
not yet all that media distraction for the young
Starter computer initiatives are also big in Africa, where even rural areas become networked: check out 'bottlenet': using vanilla WiFi cards with antennas from the dump: empty bottles and stuff. This little thing goes about 5 miles, bootlenets are cropping up in otherwise infrastructureless areas and don't only provide web access (someone down the line has a phone or satellite at the doctor's office miles away): they provide an information infrastructure where there are no phone lines (generally African nations skip the burying copper phase...) nor wireless towers (they crop up everywhere though).
Linux my lose due to the old *nix arrogance: let the PC builders decide what to put on.
I did not hear of Novell canvassing OEMs to put on their desktop, with training etc., and builder friendly 'OPK's, run once preparations for ancillary application installs, etc.
System builders, I would say, don't care. But if they have to learn themselves, rather unsupported, how to roll out a *nix in an industrial scale, with an acceptable end user out of the box experience, then Linux will go the same way as went the early *nixs, who do still have a stronghold in the advanced user community (Sun, what's left of SGI, HP), but no pull whatsoever in the 'normal' user community.
Linux is nice for the savvy, but there are always far more 'less savvys', 'end users', who actually don't care for a kernel, module, how to maintain accounts, blowfish or MD5: they just want to plug it into the wall and go.
A Microsoft system, automatically proposing a hotmail account and to sign up for MSN does provide this, with a very nice first out of the box experience. Give it credit: just idiot lights instead of a full set of 747 controls and gauges.
Linux has to work on that 'intentionally uninformed end user' target.
Even this basically crippled starter 'XP' provides what the vanilla user in a developing country needs: switch it on, answer some very basic questions, off you go! 128MB is way enough for web browsing and email, as is a 300MHz CPU for the type of communication lines they prohably have (I run an old 486 with 32MB on a T1 as a router and firewall!).
All that talk about OpenSource is very nice, and academically rewarding.
Reality is: who do we target?
The mass market? Then Linux needs to become 'mass' friendly.
Propellerhead Linux will always be there. But blasting Microsoft for what they do, and there is a merit to it, that's the wrong way.
The Linux focus has to shift or it will stay a niche product, on the server side there will be a lot of adoption, like has been with Solaris, HP-UX, Irix, and their realtime and accounting variations; on the client/desktop side: well, it will stay the exception; not all IT guys are savvy enough to run a Samba PDC in a mixed desktop environment, or to switch everyone including servers over to Linux. Most can barely spell ticpp.
The mass market will stay closed to Linux, not because someone has a monopoly, but because of arrogant Open Source developers who shun the 'ignorant masses'.
Drop lamenting! Work on a similar approach: simple out of the box startup, config, and run; and support manufacturing of boxes, not just individual installs.
Yes, there is ANI and Unattended, but who knows about that? SuSE has autoyast, but how does it scale? Anyone uses any of the three ?
Distribution sellers should see it as an ethical commitment to support and actively work on these issues, since they make money off something free in the first place. Could it be that the ethical behavior of Linux distribution sellers and the alleged 'unethical' Microsoft in the end are much nearer than we like?
As long as run-once, out of the box experience tayloring, and manufacturability are not addressed, Linux just will not be able to get there. Free in $$$ is not enough.
They will of course spend 400 million to advance the plan of total control.
Sometimes you have to spend a little $ in the short term when you have REALLY long term goals.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Sorry, but you don't know Russia very well.
Rich...
According to Forbes rich list 2005:
Brazil: 8 Billionaires, combined wealth: 18.6
Russia: 29 Billionaires, combined wealth: 97.1
and Poor...
CIA Fact Book:
Percentage of population living below the poverty line:
Brazil: 22%
Russia: 25%
MS started a similar exercise in India. It will be a total for the following reasons :
The XPSE is no match for the XPPE (Pirated edition).
MS does not understand the bottom of the pyramid markets. To succeed in the BoP markets MS does indeed needs to make its products cheap but not poor.
That is the crux of the problem. Provide similar features as XP at a starter edition price or else they will never beat the pirated market.
-Suhit Anantula