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Sony Doing An End Run Around Its Own DRM
glassgnost writes "According to a story at CNN, Sony has an odd response to complaints from fans who have discovered they cannot import their CD content to an iPod. Individuals who complain to Sony BMG about iPod incompatibility are being directed to a Web site that provides information on how to work around the technology. In short, some labels appear to have been instructing customers how to defeat DRM -- which, IIRC, is a violation of DMCA." From the article: "For now, the copy-protected discs work only with software and devices compatible with Microsoft Windows Media technology. Apple -- the dominant player in digital music -- has resisted appeals from the labels to license its FairPlay DRM for use on the copy-protected discs. The DRM initiatives are generating complaints from fans, many of whom own iPods. The message boards of artist fan sites and online retailers are filled with complaints from angry consumers who did not realize they were buying a copy-protected title until they tried to create music files on their home computers."
Interestingly SonyBMG is blaming Apple for the lack of support.
I think this situation is bound to happen, when your right hand doesn't know what your left hand is doing.
The linked website does not provide information on how to work around the technology. It explains how to 'work with' the DRM software. This page on the website mentions the problem of playing their DRMed music on an iPod and directs you to this form that you are required to fill out to apparently be emailed instructions.
If you tell someone how to circumvent the DRM to something in which you hold the copyright. The real question is, are you violating the DMCA if you are following those instructions to circumvent the DRM? And, if you are, would it be considered entrapment? None of this really matters since it would happen in the privacy of your own home, but it is an interesting legal riddle.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
Even if that does violate the DMCA, only certain people would have standing to sue about it...mostly Sony. Anyone else getting a piece of the profits would, as well, but it's possible that their contracts surrender that particular right to sue to Sony. Also, the artists may be just as interested in Sony in getting around this particular manifestation of the law of unintended consequences, so they might not want to sue, either.
Of course, if the artists' contract required Sony to put DRM on there (maybe from an extremely anti-file-sharing artist like Madonna), then they would probably have a breach of contract action against Sony. I'm not sure it would succeed, but I'll bet it'd survive summary judgment.
Stop learning! Only you can prevent esoterrorism.
Since Sony wants a "proof-of-purchase" style form, has anyone with this issue completed the form, and received the response? It's be interesting to see how Sony is telling people to circumvent their technology.
:)
I'd fill it out myself, but it's been over a year since I bought any music that wasn't from iTunes.
"Adventure? Excitement? A Jedi craves not these things."
I'd be interested to find out how many artists approve of DRM, and how many oppose it. Most of the names I see tossed about are has-beens, or never-heard-ofs -- I said most not all.
Seems to me that an artist would want their art spread as widely as possible, since most of their money is made in merchandising, and touring. Name recognition is everything.
My ZooLoo
Buy ilegal copies of you favorites CDs, for as cheap as US$ 2,00 (3 for US$ 4).
Seriously. Acting like this is ask for ilegal copies, here in Brazil you really can buy ilegal copies for US$ 2, if you don't care about boxes you can buy for US$ 1,25 (2 for US$ 2), and when you buy a legal copy at local store you can't play it in your linux computer.
For me it seems that they want it!
-=-=-=-=
I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be un-fair in MY favor!?
I told you so, but would you listen to me?
Oh, nooooooooo, DRM will never cause problems for consumers, just a little harmless DRM...
Time to bring in the Holy Hackgrenade, and blow the DRM into little pieces!
--LWM
I'm not sure why this article is written/titled the way it is. There doesn't seem to be any information on the Sony site about circumventing DRM.
The big media companies want DRM and supported the DMCA. Now they have to break the DMCA to get around their own DRM. Please support the EFF http://www.eff.org/.
Thanks,
cesman
When the source is open, the possibilities are endless.
Instead of circumventing the copy protections, I hope most are simply returning their cd. Obviously they only care about their bottom line and not the trouble they put their "consumers" through. It's the only way they might get the message.
How about you ("The Company") give the technology to Apple so that you don't lose their users as customers. How would you like it if Apple published on their website that said "Don't buy your company's CDs, they are incompatible with our technology and refuse to change it." You see, in this case, Apple is driving the market. Either conform, or lose customers.
Evil people don't think they're evil. - George Lucas, Making of Ep III
I am curious if anyone has actually submitted an inquiry as to Sony's "indirect method" for obtaining copies of their music for use on iPod's. My guess is it's the old, use the DRM software to make a CD back-up of the music, and rip from the backed-up CD. If that is the case, it isn't really violating the DMCA at all.
Why are labels allowed to put this type of technology on albums and then say that they are not violating the consumer's fair use rights? I really don't understand why the fair use doctrine seems to have been thrown out the window lately. What would happen if someone took this to court claiming that their rights have been violated, not only by the DRM, but also by the DMCA?
This is it.
Thank you for contacting Sony BMG Online.
We appreciate your purchase of our CD and apologize for any inconvenience. Please follow the instructions below in order to move your content into iTunes and onto an iPod.
[Macintosh] If you have a Macintosh computer you can copy the songs using your iTunes Player as you would normally do.
[Windows] If you have a PC place the CD into your computer and allow the Sony BMG audio player on the CD to automatically start. If the player software does not automatically start, open your Windows Explorer. Locate and select the drive letter for your CD drive. On the disc you will find either a file named LaunchCD.exe or Autorun.exe. Double-click this file to manually start the player.
TIP: If your CD does not contain either the LaunchCD.exe or Autorun.exe files, it may not be compatible with this iPod solution. Please reply to this letter for more information.
Once the Sony BMG player application has been launched and the End User License Agreement has been accepted, you can click the Copy Songs button on the top menu.
Follow the instructions to copy the secure Windows Media Files (WMA) to your PC. Make a note of where you are copying the songs to, you will need to get to these secure Windows Media Files in the next steps.
Once the WMA files are on your PC you can open and listen to the songs with Windows Media Player 9.0 or higher (or another fully compatible player that can playback secure WMA files, such as MusicMatch, RealPlayer, and Winamp). You can then burn the songs to a standard Audio CD. Please note that in order to burn the files, you will need to upgrade to, or already have, Windows Media Player 9 or 10.
Once the standard Audio CD has been created, place this copied CD back into your computer and open iTunes. iTunes can now rip the songs as you would any normal audio CD.
Please note an easier and more acceptable solution requires cooperation from Apple, who we have already reached out to in hopes of addressing this issue. To help speed this effort, we ask that you use the following link to contact Apple and ask them to provide a solution that would easily allow you to move content from protected CDs into iTunes or onto your iPod rather than having to go through the additional steps above:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipod.html
Thank you for the opportunity to be of assistance.
The Sony BMG Online Support Team
CCKM
This message and any attachments are solely for the use of intended recipients. They may contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you received this email in error, and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email and any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please contact the sender and delete the message and any attachments associated therewith from your computer. Your cooperation in this matter is appreciated.
Oops.
(cue black letters on yellow background) WARNING! This CD is copy-protected. You won't be able to copy the songs to your PC.
A label like this should be obligatory.
Personally, I'm glad Apple hasn't shared their FairPlay DRM scheme with the rest of the industry. It shows the RIAA what's like to be on the wrong side of a closed system. Now they know how we feel when we can't rip our songs to MP3s.
Electric Monkey Pants
and cross off this security feature!
I quit buying CDs the day after the iTunes music store came online. I've never once had a problem with poorly implemented DRM.
The Luddites were ahead of their time.
"I did some research on the problem that you are having with your DualDisc. Hopefully, what is listed below will be able to help you.
If you are able to listen to the audio side of the disc on your PC, you should be able to download to your iPod. There is no content protection on this disc. Technical support for DualDisc can be reached through the www.sonybmg.com/dualdisc website.
Sony BMG is actively working on ways to be able to down load the DVD portion but has not developed anything ready for release at this time.
I also received the info about bypassing DRM.
take a permanant marker and cross off this track...
Sony could start by selling pre-circumvented CDs. Since they're going to tell people how to break the DRM anyway why bother putting it there in the first place? It just annoys people. They also need to add a windows logo or something to the front of the cases. Seesh.
Quoth the article: The DRM initiatives are generating complaints from fans, many of whom own iPods. The message boards of artist fan sites and online retailers are filled with complaints from angry consumers who did not realize they were buying a copy-protected title until they tried to create music files on their home computers.
Enter the DMCRA, which, in addition to guaranteeing the right to circumvent copy prevention systems for the purposes of making non-infringing use of a work, also mandates that when companies put copy prevention on a CD, they also add an adequate warning to the case indicating that the CD may not work in all players.
I didn't think that the DMCRA would actually get attention because of the warning label provision, mainly because I'm more interested on the circumvention for non-infringing use provision, but perhaps the warning label provision is the way to get music consumers interested in getting the DMCRA passed.
If you are able to listen to the audio side of the disc on your PC, you should be able to download to your iPod. The CD/DVD drives in my Sony PC won't read a dual disc audio side, period. Strangely enough, the DVD side works perfectly on the PC... and usually includes the same audio tracks. If somebody can tell me how to rip dual disc audio to MP3, I'd be eternally grateful. The Sony PC support site just has a warning that says dual discs may not work.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
This is just like all the suckers buying their TIVOs and ATRACs and MEMORY STICKS.
Getting bitch slapped by DRM is a wake-up call and hopefully can compell the naive to research what they are buying a little bit more carefully.
When you buy a CD you purchase the priviledge to play the CD in a manner that the record company approves. Repeat three times.
Now, for every person that says "No way! The law says..." They may be right, but I submit that the music distributors (via RIAA) are training people to believe and behave according to the statement above and completely ingnoring the law. (not breaking, but pretending it doesn't exist) These laws in particular protect the rich from the poor.
Whatever laws may say otherwise, I submit that a coherent challenge to this mission won't be happening because the resources required to do so are:
-out of reach of nearly all the people consuming music.
-lack of incentive on the part of the people with the resources to challenge the RIAA. They are most likely shareholders garnering a return or otherwise can pay the price without concern.
-Mounting a challenge to this is likely to be criminalized outright because it's easy to label it "they just want to steal our music." (reminds me of the medical marijuana lobby)
-Allowing a CD to be used for more than one purpose is bad capitalism. The owner wants to monetize every single use and the current political climate in the US encourages this.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
To listen to the music on this disc, you need a PC with the following minimum system requirements:
-
-
-
- Logged in with Administrator rights
why?
the internet is disruptive technology
we don't NEED music conglomerates
teenagers pick up guitars to impress chicks, not to become millionaires
if in the future artisits don't become millionaires, do you really think people will stop making music? as if fame and women aren't incentive enough?
and even then, in the future, bands will make their money the old fashion way: touring, stage appearances, and the ticketing that comes with that
and the bootlegs, videos, of that appearance will be free, as well as their entire catalog
so sell your stock in sony, and buy some ticketmaster stock
because the internet has made the media cheap
but there is still only one artist, and in meatspace, as opposed to cyberspace, the artist is a rare commodity, so you can still sell tickets
who loses in this future world?
nothing but the music distrubutors
the fans, and the artists, win
bye bye, dinosaurs
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
That Sony's own ACID allows you to rip from CD to WAV. I gotta check this out!
----- You know you have ego issues when you register a domain in your name.
What part of "No!" don't you understand....
So, they are trying to convince me that the reason THEY are DRM-ing their CD's is because of Apple? Im sorry, but who do they expect will be convinced by this? We're not talking about Momma and Poppa Joe here who will be complining- this will be educated individuals from the internet generation. These people will easily be able to see right through this decieteful childsplay. This is a foolish act by Sony that makes them sound like even more of faceless evil megacorporation than they already do.
Silly consumers, you should know better than to actually pay for the product, since it'll just be broken! You should just go download the song illegally over the Internet, because that gives you a working copy that you can use as you see fit.
So, essentially, with DRM, Sony has succeeded in making the pirated copies of the songs more valuable than the real copies. Brilliant strategy.
DRM always seems to work like that. All it accomplishes is making the "official" versions that much worse. How many people here have wound up downloading the "NOCD" versions of games that you paid for, simply because either the nuisance of having to swap disks was keeping you from playing, or because the copy protection actually crashed? I can't remember which game (C&C Generals?), but I remember I couldn't actually play a game recently because it's copy protection scheme actually would crash.
I can only hope that eventually the media companies will realize that all this DRM stuff is simply taking value away from their product, not adding anything to it. Apparently their solution to piracy is to make the pirated product more attractive than their own. Then they wonder why the strategy isn't working. Hmm...
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
As long as analog audio equipment is around, WHY do these companies bother with DRM? WHY?
1. Insert DRM crap into computer A. 2. Run sound cable from comp A to comp B. 3. Play on comp A and record on comp B. MP3 groups arent gonna have a hard time doing that... or something similar. If all else fails, you could just mic your speakers... Really any person with a little bit of knowledge can make a decent copy, and all it takes is 1 copy being released to the scene.
"where words meet intent, lies rhetoric's lament"
If Apple wanted, they could get the crippled CDs out there all using FairPlay to DRM the compressed songs. It's strange they don't. You would think that this would give a further competitive advantage to their iPod line of players, as well as seeing to it that everyone is using iTunes for playback and FairPlay for DRM. Should Apple want to, all of these objectives would be within reach. The strange thing is that they don't seem to want to. Somehow they wait on the sidelines while the music industry seems to default to Windows Media DRM. This is a less useful format for the majority of customers, and with enough of it around, competitors to the iPod get a serious advantage.
So my question is this: Why is Apple holding out on the licensing of FairPlay? Is it simply that they think crippled CDs are evil and they don't want to dirty their hands with it? Strange.
I cant help but laugh at the fact that they have a FAQ on how to play the disks in the first place, and troubleshooting said process. And I'm not even talking about getting the music into iTunes! wow.
... how the analog hole works
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_hole
Yes the DRM will be circumvented eventually - but if it doesn't - there always is that pesky analog hole to fall back on
---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
I work at a music store, and Switchfoot, the artist featured on Slashdot a week or so ago on Sony's label, was having certain copies of their DRMed discs recalled. I read the paper briefly, and it was stating that there was a problem with the discs not being able to even be played on PCs, but no effect on audio CD players.
Why are the music companies bothering to use this DRM if it's causing such an uproar? Why are they just offering ways around it and not bothering to just STOP USING IT? It's cheaper for them, better for consumers, and doesn't present a problem for the artists. I don't understand how they think the DRM helps them in the least.
If your ear can hear it, it can be copied. A high quality analog output from a stereo can just be piped back into the computer and recorded & encoded in your favorite format, ogg, mp3, whatever....
Interesting tidbit from the linked site:
Sounds to me, then, like it would play in a home player, or be rippable under linux. They also say:which further implies to me that the "DRM" (and I use the term loosely) relies on your computer to use the data session and not the audio session. Seems to me you could just rip the latter.
Almost as easy as holding down a shift key. ;)
I'm an animal lover -- they're delicious!
With the sales of CD going downward due to the advent of iTune (and many other soulless DMA-rigged music sites), the obvious impact of consumer trending is self-evident:
The media repackaging and enforcement industry (another generic label for *IAA) has failed to embrace the power of the Internet and will continue to fail (despite iTune meteoretic rise).
*IAA has well-documented and established monopolistic practice of doing the following:
1. Jerry-rigging Top-40 listing
2. Controlling their radio/cable station with steady stream of sub-par music.
3. Locking and reigning in the bands freedom.
4. Ironclad control of multi-layered multi-regional distribution points
They are attemping (with miserably result) at symbiotic relationship with the computer industry. Intel with copy-once bit (for either blue DVD formats); Microsoft on iTune-knockoff; Even Sony Microelectronic is fighting with Sony media.
Now, the *IAA are repeatedly attempting at same failed strategies in psuedo-cementing their sandy enterprise through the control of their closed-fisted approach. (reads as slipping sands through closing hands). *IAA MUST be made to realize that they cannot have it all and that failure to embrace technology, particularly rapid evolving open-source technology, will further hasten their demise.
iTune has understood this all and will become a powerful iconoclastic media empire (along with Google in different ways).
Good luck, *IAA.
You might laugh, but I do this! I figure, if I own the disk, I should be able to have a archive copy, and it easier to torrent one than to make my own mp3. We are only talking about a dozen CDs converted. I make copies of my CDs to put in the car, since I don't like keeping the good copy in a hot vehicle, but that is seperate and just as legal.
So I can say that I have some downloaded MP3s to play on the computer, but I bought the CD first.
Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
I filled out the form at Sony BMG's website to receive their recommended method of getting around the copy protection on these discs in order to use them with an iPod. Here is the text of their automated email (with my comments in italics):
Thank you for contacting Sony BMG Online.
We appreciate your purchase of our CD and apologize for any inconvenience.
Please follow the instructions below in order to move your content into iTunes
and onto an iPod.
Should they really be allowed to refer to these discs as CDs? Isn't that misleading since it implies that the discs a) conform to the CD standard and b) will work in all CD players?
[Macintosh]
If you have a Macintosh computer you can copy the songs using your iTunes Player
as you would normally do.
So if I get a Mac instead of a Vaio as my next computer, I can expect less problems when dealing with digital media? For some reason, the various groups within Sony never seem to play well together.
[Windows]
If you have a PC place the CD into your computer and allow the Sony BMG audio
player on the CD to automatically start. If the player software does not
automatically start, open your Windows Explorer. Locate and select the drive
letter for your CD drive. On the disc you will find either a file named
LaunchCD.exe or Autorun.exe. Double-click this file to manually start the
player.
TIP: If your CD does not contain either the LaunchCD.exe or
Autorun.exe files, it may not be compatible with this iPod
solution. Please reply to this letter for more information.
Once the Sony BMG player application has been launched and the End User License
Agreement has been accepted, you can click the Copy Songs button on the top
menu.
Can anyone post a copy of the EULA that you have to accept in order to do this? I don't have one of these discs, but I'd be interested in seeing the restrictions.
Follow the instructions to copy the secure Windows Media Files (WMA) to your PC.
Make a note of where you are copying the songs to, you will need to get to these
secure Windows Media Files in the next steps.
Once the WMA files are on your PC you can open and listen to the songs with
Windows Media Player 9.0 or higher (or another fully compatible player that can
playback secure WMA files, such as MusicMatch, RealPlayer, and Winamp). You can
then burn the songs to a standard Audio CD. Please note that in order to burn
the files, you will need to upgrade to, or already have, Windows Media Player 9
or 10.
Once the standard Audio CD has been created, place this copied CD back into your
computer and open iTunes. iTunes can now rip the songs as you would any normal
audio CD.
Please note an easier and more acceptable solution requires cooperation from
Apple, who we have already reached out to in hopes of addressing this issue. To
help speed this effort, we ask that you use the following link to contact Apple
and ask them to provide a solution that would easily allow you to move content
from protected CDs into iTunes or onto your iPod rather than having to go
through the additional steps above:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipod.html
While Apple's cooperation would prevent this problem, I'd hardly call it "easier" or "more acceptable" than just not shipping these copy-protected discs in the first place. This is no more Apple's (or any other digital audio player manufacturer) fault than it is Sony's.
Thank you for the opportunity to be of assistance.
The Sony BMG Online Support Team
CCKM
Quite simple, really. It's all the RIAA members care about (cocaine and hookers excluded).
(and no, the cat hasn't got my tounge, I've got both a body and a subject).
*Raises hand* :)
That's really annoying. Just as well I play just one game, as I'd have to buy a cd drive for every game I play to not go crazy from swapping
Sony's idiotic and twisted logic seems to go somethingl like this : Since Apple won't do what Sony wants them to do then Sony will make all of Sony's customers suffer and, therefor, this suffering is Apple's fault. If Sony cared about their own customers they would write a few lines of code so that their customers could work from a copy in memory. Forcing customers to make an unprotected CD is deliberately punishing the customer and deliberately violating their DRM all in an effort to extort something from Apple. Sony can't take their own medicine and they definitely can't have any more of my money.
I have exactly three Dual Disc CDs (one being the new Rob Thomas CD, another being The Family Guy In Vegas CD, and a third I can't remember off the top of my head). Not ONE will play in ANY of the DVD/RW, CDROM, or CD-RW drives I have access to. The OS won't even recognize that there's a disc in the machine.
Are Dual Discs (CDs that are CDs on one side and DVDs on the other) all automatically DRM'd or something? Or did I just get unlucky? Anyone else have any problem ripping Dual Discs, or the specific CDs I mentioned above?
- Spryguy
There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
No, this will not exist forever (without serious hacking of the physical box). Imagine a world were all interconnects (including to the speakers) are encrypted with a one time key, digital, etc etc, and no licensed box may have analog output. (Obviously, speakers will need to do D to A and have their own amp). Now stop imagining and just wait a few years.
So unless you want to put a mic in front of a speaker (how many op-amps, DAC, and ADC are involved in that path?), you are out of luck with. No line out for you!
This is quite interesting. Although the e-mail blames Apple, I think the users don't really care. By not licensing FairPlay, Apple is really turning the heat on the record execs. Nobody wants a Rio when there's an iPod available. And rather than go through all that work to load the tracks on an iPod, perhaps some users would sooner download the material. For many, that would technically easier. Things certainly do seem to be shaping up for a battle as Apple really starts to flex. Seems like it has the masses backing it, not to mention the disgruntled artists.
iTunes vs Big Music and Google vs Microsoft: surely an exciting 2006...
ascii art
This story came up last June. Nothing new here, move along...
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=164248&cid=137 15878
Any questions?
I hear these arguments about DRM, but to me, as long as I can make a high-fi copy of anything I can play, I don't see what the problem is. Personally I've been using Audio Hijack Pro by Rogue Amoeba. http://www.rogueamoeba.com/. I love it. I record my favorite radio shows from the internet on a regular schedule like tivo for internet radio, and if I ever had a DRM CD, I would just use Audio Hijack to record it while it played. Bring your DRM on, I'm not scared! If something was so DRM'd that I couldn't even play it, then we would have a problem...
San Francisco Photographers
... you end up with a transcoded file, which is even worse than the straight 128k wmedia file you started from when you burn it (given that you get the WMA artifacts *and* the MP3/AAC ones). This of course unless I've misread their FAQs obviously.
-- the cake is a lie
"Equipment Compatibility:
1. I have an Apple Macintosh computer. Will the disc work on my MAC?
Yes. This disc will behave like a traditional CD in a Mac."
Apparently, it just works!
-'fester
/my money says the disc does not fully support cdda redbook, but still...
-'fester
But the artists who have become millionaires aren't exactly clamoring to change the system, are they? The power is in the hands of artists, but the small number of artists who have benefited by the current system are as a whole uninterested in changing it.
The fact that you and I don't need media conglomerates doesn't mean that they'll disappear of their own accord. Until big-name artists start working for change, and legislation is passed to curb the music industry's excesses, the industry will use its considerable financial and political clout to resist change.
The current music industry profit model is probably doomed, but the labels won't let it go away without a fight. They know they're middlemen, and they know that the Internet is particularly good at weeding out middlement. The problem is no matter how many times they get hit on the head with a cluestick, they still can't figure out a way to shift their profit model. Expect this fight to go on for quite some time before the music industry either is utterly destroyed or is forced to adapt to the new reality.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Strange as it may seem many artists don't own the copyright to their own music. In some cases they don't even own their own name (remember the prince issue? that was about contract rights far more than his artistic strangness).
It will be fun to see a major label suing one of its stable members for violating the labels copyright and DRM, on music the stablemember created.
I used to have a cool sig, back when I cared
1. Make device with horrible crippling DRM.
2. Provide instructions to angry customers about how to circumvent the DRM, thus tricking them into violating the DMCA.
3. Sue customers.
4. Profit!!!
Come on, let's! It should be incompatible with both the Sony Network Walkman (or whatever) and Apple iPod, but very easy to "rip". It could even be bundled with its own ripper utility.
.... in my company.
Every CD that has tried to pull this trick on me goes back to the shop downstairs faster than you can say "Sony are stupid".
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
... oligopolists.
/.er, should know better.
But you, as a proud
We have tried to educate you about the differences between theft and copyright infringement, between a physical, irreplaceable object and a stream of bits (perhaps representing analog data, like music) that are infinitely reproduceable without any loss of quality and at negligible cost.
You should know by now that your "example" is not such a thing, but a lame contrived attempt to explain something you clearly don't understand yet.
Arrrrrrrghhhhhh!!!!!
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Your solution is burn a cd then rip from it? WTF don't you think that hackers will think about that? The only thing your stopping is LEGAL PEOPLE'S LISTENING PLEASURE!!!! STUPID!!! (Napoleon Dynamite :P)
Maybe I'm stupid or my PowerBook is broken, but when I try to read the new Bruce Springsteen dual format disc [which is a sony DRM'ed "CD" on one side and a DVD on the other] it just spins for a while and then gets spat it out.
The DVD side works fine, it's the CD side that's borked. This is with the latest version of iTunes, and it plays fine outside of a computer. Any body else have this problem or similar?
As far as I can tell their instructions DO NOT WORK on the Mac in my case. [Which may be special because of the dual format]
It's pretty ironic they tell you to contact Apple to suggest they find and implement a solution to a problem that does not exist on Apple's own OS. What's makes it really funny is that the limitation is not due to Apple hiding the methods on how to do it, or just being stingy in providing cross-platform support, it's just the broken state of the MS operating system experience.
The lawyers are friggin' geniuses! Sony has to sue THEMSELVES! Double paychecks while the lawsuit unfolds for having to do twice the work. AMAZING!
mod this guy up he pwned me :(
"where words meet intent, lies rhetoric's lament"
Actually, the vauge wording of the DMCA pretty much says that you're not allowed to "circumvent" the DRM -- which, making a backup and then making MP3s or whatnot certainly does, since the DRM doesn't let you do that normally.
That's the major problem with the DMCA -- it's basically a rubber stamp that says "don't do anything with a computer that a company might not like."
Think that they might as well have said:
"sorry, we're right smack-dab in the middle of one colosal pissing contest with apple right now.
Unless you want to go out and further support us by buying our inferior digital music player, you should just piss off and do what you were going to do anyways: burn a copy of the cd, then use that copy with itunes to put it on your stupid ipod.
sure, you'll have inferior audio quality, but fuck you for going with our competitor. you're just lucky we're not suing you for it."
Come read my stupid blagablog. Rants and Giggles
If I own the CD can I download the MP3's? It's just another way of getting the same files on my computer that I can do without the hassles. If I can't why? How about VHS tapes of movies I own? Can I download copies of them because they are starting to deteriorate? Again if not why?
Just a question, IAONAL.
Sit... Speak.... Shake.... Good Dog!
...to get copy protected CDs onto my iPod: I just use a cable to run them from my home stereo into WAV files on the PC, in real-time. (Yeah, I know, that's analog pollution, but I'm just gonna compress them down to 192K MP3s anyway, so what the hell?)
sig has been sent away for a few small repairs...
Hmm. They're secured WMA files. So if your MP3 player happens to be one that doesn't play Windows Media files (a strong majority of those sold sold, if I remember right), you're up a creek. If your MP3 player plays WMA files but lacks the ability to play DRM-encumbered WMA files, you're also up a creek. I suppose you can do a rip-burn-rip, but I don't want to pay even a cent extra to put music on my player, nor do I want to accept the extra loss in sound quality.
I and pretty much everyone I know listens to music on an MP3 player the majority of the time. For us, these CDs are broken, simple as that.
What I don't understand is how come nobody seems to be taking action against shops that sell copy-protected "CDs" in the same area as real CDs, giving the impression that they're all the same and can be used in the same ways. That seems to be a clear misrepresentation, which I'm pretty sure is against the law in most jurisdictions. It seems some customers are now returning the pseudo-CDs for a refund, and some shops are giving that refund without a fight, but how come the various government trading standards people aren't getting involved yet?
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
For me, I quit buying Sony Consumer Electronics after I burned my first mix CD and found that my Sony CD/DVD player wouldn't read burned CDs. About 2 years later, the consumer electronics division is cutting 10,000 jobs and facing a $2B(US) loss this year.
Now the half of the house that sells CDs is trying hard to alienate it's customers by releasing CDs that can't be listened to on iPods. Earth to Sony, if you make your products unusable, consumers aren't going to buy them. In addition, the consumer economy is severely depressed due to energy prices and a really expensive war we are fighting in Iraq. Until these issues are resolved, consumers are going to spend less money on both electronics and content. Meanwhile, you probably shouldn't sacrifice the per CD licensing fees to the copy protection and DRM companies. Instead you should focus on superior products and profitability.
Selling products in a free-market economy is a tricky thing. Good luck! Oh, and one more thing. We are all sick of the movie remakes, please innovate something new and interesting. Herbie, Bewitched, and now King Kong? Geeeeeez.
From the Sony site:
What is the bit rate that the audio files I move to my computer are encoded in?
Windows Media Audio (WMA): 128 kbps
ATRAC3: 132 kbps
128Kbs (WMA) / 320Kbs (Real CD) == 40%
So let's see. I buy a CD and not only do I have to go through a 3 step process, but I get music with less than 40% of the value I payed for (as it's already one through one lossy compression). Thanks for the new format Sony.
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
When it comes to proprietary drmed music format, I don't really cares who licences whose. Just that microsoft seems to always fall into the same dirty old habit of trying to force people to use theirs and pay their licence fees in perpetuity. I by preferece Ogg Vorbis, feel "free" to do the same or pay someone else for theirs (many thanks to the ogg vorbis coders :)).
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
They're already reaching that point with HDTV, and they're already losing a lot of early adopters as a result of changing standards to render old (as in, over six months, maybe), multi-thousand-costing, wide-screen TV sets incapable of viewing the HDTV signal.
Here's a lesson in basic market forces for naive media companies everywhere:
Now, there are two catches in there, which I've cunningly labelled with the word "if". After considering those, guess which part of the market you don't want to upset?
Ooooops.
At current rates of progress, that will be an expensive mistake for a whole industry any time now. Let's hope it's soon enough for the record industry to notice it and decide not to accept the same fate.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
I'm so glad the Playsforsure campaign is finally biting Microsoft and all its WMV compatible chums in the ass.
Apple has never made a big deal about its DRM not being able to play on Windows Media compatible players (for obvious reasons), yet Microsoft - with the usual giant helping of arrogance - did exactly the opposite by gathering everyone but Apple together and running this campaign.
I'm actually surprised they're still running it because that little Playsforsure sticker is fast becoming the kiss of death when it comes to choosing a media player!
Something like daemontools, or another virtual CD/DVD drive, so you wouldn't have to eat the extra cost of a CD-ROM...
Really, this has to be one of the dumbest things any record label has pulled.
didnt they do something strikingly like this a while back? http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/06/17/12 13209&tid=155&tid=233&tid=141&tid=172
Soap box, Ballot box, Jury box, Ammo box. Use in that order.
Ok - I see your point, but I disagree with
a) Your timeline - 5 years? do you think in 5 years we all will have to throw out our expensive audio gear? replace every fucking CD player? in cars, portables, boom boxes etc? The marketplace will react how to that exactly - positively? It's audio for crying out loud - what killer app will suplant cheap digital stereo? Quadraphonics? There needs to be a marketplace driver for change to happen on this. SACD and that other one whatever it is - have been around for while and haven't exactly taken off
b) Ok lets say they do that eventually - there will need to some kind of industry standard to make that feasible (5 years? lol! but i digress). Lets say that this standard copy protection thing-a-ma-jig is pretty good and it gets accepted by the marketplace and is propagated fully ----- how many DVD Jon's will be out there working on this problem? How long will it take before its utterly hacked to shreds? How long will it take before I can buy modded hardware from Hong Kong?
Please don't get me wrong about this, I share your fear on this one and I don't mean to be confrontational on this - I just needed to rant a bit
I think we all need to put a little faith in the marketplace (and H@X0Rz!) on this one
---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
Read the canned response, it actually tells you to MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE DRM INSTALLED FIRST. Then they want you to install WMP 9 or 10. In other words, they are encouraging you to install their DRM.
They're not telling you how to circumvent it, they're telling you how to GET IT.
If it said to disable autorun and then use iTunes to rip it, then it'd be telling you how to circumvent it.
It's all a scam to get you into their circle of people already using their DRM system. By then it's too late.
Return the disc as defective. If you pay money for DRMed content, then the music companies will try to sell you more DRMed content. Our only hope here is to return every disc that has protection and hope the retailers stop stocking it due to the hassle. Then the music publishers will be forced to release it without DRM in order to get it on the shelf.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Well if there is really 'legal space' to do that I really think EFF should try to file a suit against that, Just to mak the absurd obvious to everyone
So Sony, of all people, are telling me that if I want to listen to the music on my iPod, I should stay the fuck away from rubbish Vaio boxes and buy an iMac?
Nice one.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
Well, at least I think not.
This is on every comment page:
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Would this hold up in court?
For those of you just tuning in, Sony loves to come up with its own innovations that never make it far in the highly competitive world of consumer electronics. They invented their own "better" CD format, the SACD. They invented their own flash memory format, the Memory Stick. Every good idea that people want, Sony invents it, but they invent it WRONG. Instead of going with the majority, developing an accepted interoperable standard, they flip everyone the bird and make something different that locks you in to Sony devices. They don't license technology outside the cartel until it's near-obsolete, just so they can look back and say "We did share our goodies" in a press release five years down the road.
Sony is basically telling us that they don't want to sell music to iPod owners because Sony wants to sell us their own portable player. It's the razorblade business flipped backwards.
On paper it makes for a good business strategy, but in today's world of ever-changing gadgetry and confusing incompatibilities it's high time they learned to play nice with the CONSUMERS, otherwise Sony will eventually be the ugly kid in the corner with no friends.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
Let's propose the likely worst-case scenario, where the entire speaker cabinet is potted in epoxy resin (thus turning it into a heavy brick as well, and likely sounding like crap). Even in this scenario, the speaker cone itself still must remain free to move. To this end, speaker manufacturers have found that the mass of the cone has to be low, and the cone itself has to be ridged. They can't get around this fact (not cheaply, and not in a small package) - so no matter what, the driver coil must be mounted to the cone (the magnet couldn't be mounted to the cone, because it is more massive, and thus would change the resonant frequency of the speaker drastically, making the speaker near-useless). Thus, the wires to that coil will always be accessible. Just remove the front of the speaker (with the dremel), cut the cone away taking care not to cut the wires (x-acto), then solder your own wires on to the wires going to the cone (soldering iron).
The reality is that potting the speaker in resin won't ever be an option, because the speaker needs certain sized cavities and air passageways behind it (and in front of it, and around it) to make it sound as good as possible. Potting the whole thing in resin just isn't conducive to making a nice sounding system. I can see the possibility of potting the built-in amplifier/decoder in resin - but they would have to get real creative on the potting around the heatsinks and such, especially on higher power systems - and if they are sloppy, off of those transistors/amp IC's is an analog signal, provided you can get to a bare pin in some way (dremel/drill a hole to the pin, maybe?). I can even see the possibility of pulling the signal off the heatsink itself, since it might be connected to the ground side, and if it isn't perfectly grounded (on a cheap amp, most certainly), the difference between true ground and the "floating" ground of the heatsink might have some audio information in it (whether it would be above the noise floor is another thing, though).
Whatever the method, you will be dealing with having to either down-convert the signal level (from the speaker level to line level) or up-convert it (from the baseline-trickle-off-the-floating-ground/pre-amp level to line level), which will require an attenuator or extra-amplifier (which will inject some noise itself) - but if we are looking at a world like you are proposing, such extra effort and cost will be justified in order to get music (albeit of subjective quality in the end) that can be played on the device of your choice, and not the music cartel's...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
IIRC, violation of the circumvention provision in DMCA is a criminal offense, regardless of copyright considerations.
Basically, the FBI could bring charges against SONY for providing a circumvention method to its own DRM and they could win.
Oh really? It would appear that by the definition of circumvention in 17 USC 1201, acts performed with permission of the copyright owner are not circumvention:
(my emphasis).As I understand the DMCA (IANAL) it is a violation to either create or distribute information about a way to circumvent the copy protection feature. This says NOTHING about who owns the copyrights.
Re-read 17 USC 1201 and pay special attention to anywhere that the phrase "authority of the copyright owner" is used.
When you invoke fair use, you automatically admit that the infringement did occur (but you can't be punished for it).
How? As I understand it, a defense under fair use, the AHRA, or other copyright-related legislation of similar effect means that if what would otherwise be considered an infringement of copyright did occur, the alleged infringer can't be punished for it. Fair use is not an exclusive defense; it's often asserted along with other affirmative defenses as well as denials of allegations.
proposed DMCRA
Proposed legislation means absolutely nothing to the bottom line. DMCA reform bills have been kicking around for years, but to my knowledge they haven't even made their way out of committee. The DMCA is still law where Slashdot is hosted, and as long as television broadcast networks are permitted to circumvent equal access laws by donating to re-election campaigns, it will remain law.
Ripping CDs to mp3 is one of the many uses of my knoppix disk...
Did you install Knoppix to a hard drive? Or do you carry an external CD drive with your computer? Otherwise, how did you manage to get Knoppix to let you eject the Knoppix CD while the system is running?