Slashdot Mirror
France Hostile To Open Source Software?
AdamWeeden writes "According to the Free Software Foundation of France the French Department of Culture is telling free (as in speech) software providers that 'You will be required to change your licenses ... You shall stop publishing free software,' and warn they are ready 'to sue free software authors who will keep on publishing source code.'" From the post: "It appears that publishing Free Software giving access to culture is about to become a counterfeiting criminal offence. Will SACEM sue France Télécom R&D research labs for having published Maay and Solipsis (P2P pieces of software used to exchange data)? Up to this point, the rather technical debate surrounding the issues addressed by DADVSI bill (copyright and neighbouring rights in the information society) makes one ask: Just how much control do the Big Players in the field of culture want to seize? It now looks like years of quibbling have put an end to compromises." More information on the DADVSI bill is available at Infos-du-net.com. They've come a long way since last year.
Because Microsoft France surely just made one.
Trading copyrighted works is now illegal. Hear, hear.
Nice to see that the US doesn't have a monopoly on loony government agencies and legislation...that's obviously in the public domain.
Toute votre base sont appartiennent à nous
il n'y aura aucun logiciel libre en France !
It's interesting to see that while people rag on America all the time for being a bunch of corporate shills, we are very friendly to OSS, the Gov't even makes its own publicly available (think World Wind, SELinux), and OSS adoption is high. Meanwhile, our french friends are hostile to it. And they say OSS is a liberal thing.
I am Spartacus
France hostile? Yes, Open Source software is quaking in their boots!
When has France ever been hostile towards something and then come out on top?
If I think something is funny, I will probably mod it +1 Insightful. "It's funny because it's true."
I was on the fence, but now they've done it. I am officially giving up croissants, snobbery, and disdain for other people. I just can't be associated with them anymore.
... and now I finally know why you should not run Linux: you'll get sued!
For the longest time, I've felt that France isn't a real country. I feel like it's an inside joke that the rest of the world just doesn't get.
Next thing you know, the department of culture* will be telling people to eat at restraunts instead of preparing their own meals, hiring maids instead of sweeping their floors, etc.
* wtf
What are they, going to go to war over this?
There goes VLC.
French programmers could just develop their software under assumed pen-names and publish their free software on servers overseas outside of the French government's jurisdiction. It's a sucky law if it passes, but if it does pass, I'm eager as hell to see it broken en masse to the point of it being unenforceable. Stereotypes about surrendering notwithstanding, of course...
Slashdot requires you to wait longer between hitting 'reply' and submitting a comment.
that would explain the fear. "vee are open source. vee have vays of making you, um, compiling you, um, vee have vays...of...using your source."
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
What if they charge a minimal, insignificant fee of the smallest monetary unit?
This is the tough talk they use before they surrender to it!
Please sign petition to restore sanity to our banking system!!!
http://financialpetition.org/
WTF!?!? That's really all that can be said
0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
What is "access to culture"? The article specifically uses two P2P file-sharing programs as examples. Is this about pirating media (music, movies), or about publishing source code?
All the FSF has to do is to declare war on France, and sign the armistice 30 minutes later..
--- The American Way of Life is not a birthright. Hell, it's not even sustainable.
The summary talks about SACEM. The article talks about SNEP and SCPP. There are several more acronyms in the article. These are apparently well-known enough in France, but could somebody tell the rest of us who these groups are? Or would that be giving away too much of France's culture?
I predict France surrendering to open source within the next week.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
The proposed prohibition is specifically against open source software that allows you to defeat drm, not open source software in general.
Still a bad trend in any event
...we wave aour privat' parts at your Aunties! Take your free software awa' or we shall a taunt you again!
This, were it to pass, would effectively shut out France and French OSS developers while not changing a damn thing anywhere else. OSS will still be available to anyone in France who wishes to download it, but France will have been cut out of a large and quickly growing segment of the tech industry. The most popular server OS, most popular web server, Internet DNS, and most popular MTA, among other software, will no longer be legal in France. How will they even route their Internet traffic?
Have they thought about this at all?
The global economy is a great thing until you feel it locally.
department of culture
Well seeing as the culture used to make cheeses is bacteria, maybe the French are just a bunch of low life bacteria?
-everphilski-
Is that what they call the "Ministry of Truth" over in France?
As long as that source is provided in French! And, no, Perl doesn't count as unreadable enough.
"Magouilles"
With an "o", sorry.
You can't take the sky from me...
That will be 1 penny sir, thank you very much.
To charge a "fee", of "services rendered"...
"In exchange for making the happy little numbers on our router increase faster, you may use and redistribute this however you want". Rephrase in a more GPL-like manner, and translate it into French, and problem solved. No more "free" software.
Although, one does have to wonder how this applies to non-binary code - Has France effectively banned interpreted languages? I wonder if they realize just how much of their infrastructure depends on Perl. Or for that matter, what about HTML or XML, where the "program" basically resembles plain-text in the first place, and only a under certain interpretations does it do anything extra?
Overall, just dumb. I don't know all that much about the French legal system, but enforcing this seems quite thoroughly impossible.
Freedom fries?
Wait...That won't work, since it's about free-as-in-freedom software...
Free-as-in-beer fries!
I propose thay we stop using the French word 'libre' for free software. Freedom fries anybody?
What can you expect from a nation that has 300 kinds of cheese?
... The French Government is preparing a referendum to see if French citizens are awake yet.
From what can be gathered, the majority of French went to sleep about the time that Renault and Peugeot withdrew their products from the US market because their cars were not competitive, and judged to be too unreliable and lacking in innovation.
Sorry. I shouldn't be so snide. I actually LIKE most of the French people I know. The trouble is, their Government wants to have its own planet. Ain't gonna happen.
You simply can not legislate prosperity (and jobs) into existence. If people are willing to work for free and produce quality output, that is a force you cannot stop.
Even the French can't do it.
maybe they can work around this by changing from "free" to "very low cost."
Besides the obvious Mandriva, does anyone know of any other projects which might me affected?
Robert Bindler
A Computer Science student's views on technology.
Comment the open source code in German rather than English. ...watch how fast any French objectors drop their complains...
Russia
Watch for Penguins, they eat Apples and throw rocks at Windows.
Until the DMCA becomes global. Even then they still wont stop anyways so it doesn't matter.
http://www.videolan.org/eucd.html
Sell it for a dollar and include a dollar rebate and call it Frenchware instead of Freeware
Demented But Determined.
... for you have just wounded part of your economy. It may be a small part of the French economy but it's all Euros lost to neighbouring countries that will be quite happy to take that business.
Oxford Dictionaries Online
...French Parliament considers campaign against egalité, fraternité.
News at 11.
Breakfast served all day!
Yet another reason France is not one of my favorite places in the World. So, is it then illegal to run a Javascript applet off a webpage since it might do something useful and its free? Where is the line drawn? It is for commercial use (i.e. Firefox or Thunderbird or Openoffice)? Or for Mr. and Mrs. Schmoe who don't wanna buy an office suite for the one or two letters they type a month?
Click Click Bloody Click PANCAKES!
It appears that publishing Free Software giving access to culture is about to become a counterfeiting criminal offence
Software that gives access to culture? What does that mean? Can someone provide a better translation for this translation?
There is a reason God made matches and jerrycans. These SACEM buildings must burn! Fire is the only language that French politicians understand!
That'll pretty much signal the end of the French tech sector.
...or maybe they have some strange idea that this will bring the riots to an end.
This is BIZARRE. If anyplace should be supporting open source software it's France. As anti-American as France generally is, this move will hand a huge present to the American company Microsoft.
Napolean Dynamite
Idiot!
-everphilski-
France is such an enigmatic country, you may consider there's probably a trade union of programmers in close-source shops who feel threatened and therefore want the government to protect their jobs.
I keep expecting France to collapse from it's own inertia, but it does seem to keep on truckin'
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
more important things to worry about?
// TODO: Insert Cool Sig
WTF does that even mean?
All your basis are belong to us there will be not any free software program in France!
TODO create witty sig.
What's their beef? What is their complaint? I've read the article and I still can't understand it. What the hell does "giving access to culture" mean?
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
ugh.. I'm so sick of americans yelling at france for not obeying them and invading Iraq like a good old boy. Now I even have to read seriously twisted tales of what is happening in France.
But, looking on the bright side, weren't those mplayer people a bunch of arrogant French coders?! :). Of course the secret to being French is a matter of loving the two W's and having the correct amount of arrogance (the secret being there is no correct amount that is sufficient).
But in reality, it proves dumb laws and ideas can occur anywhere.
This isn't newsworthy, let me know when France ISN'T hostile towards something (or someone). Either way, now that they have expressed their opposition to OSS France will now surely be invaded & dominated with OSS.
you closed source using, cheese-eating, surrender monkeys!
http://politics.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/ 21/180220&from=rss
Would this mean they would be using illegal software?
If an officer ever threatens to taze you, say you have a pacemaker.
I've heard office furniture and files burn just as well as cars!
Another fine article showing up on Slashdot because there is the word "France" in it. It is rubbish. France is a strong Open Source supporter. Every government branch is considering getting rid of proprietary software. The French RIAA says it's bad and they're gonna sue everyone one... and it makes the "news for nerds" on Slashdot. Come on people it wouldn't even be accepted on foxnews. Who's the moron who accepted it?
or did they not actually give a reason why they are trying to ban open source?
Technoli
And I thought Politics in my country (USA) were F'ed up.
France seems closer aligned with Dallas City Hall. Even the corruption is corrupted. This is just plain stupid. How can free software be considered counterfeiting? (or intent to defraud) It's more likely (actually down right ramped) in closed source software to have an intent to defraud. See Gator/Claria failures to be up front and CLEAR about what they are actually doing.
There isn't any doubt in my mind that large sums of money are changing hands behind the scenes...
Only in France could some trade union issue a mis-typed memo announcing a general strike between the hours of 1700 and 0900, on Décembre 5 and the people would still find a way to do it.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Ça c'est fucké...
That is the most fubar'd proposed bit of IP legislation I have ever heard...
If you want to give free access to your own IP, why the devil should it be against the law?
This is bizarre... I cannot think of an industry outside music and movies that would even think of lobbying for such legislation in any nation... Hell, Wall Street uses a lot of OSS, and I imagine that the Euro-zone financial giants do as well.
This is quite possibly the most myopic bit of IP legislation I have ever seen.
OK, there's a lot of misunderstanding around here, but hey, it's /., I can understand.
For all those who wonder if we have 'realized most of our infrastructure depends on [insert opensource stuff here]', most French IT-savvy people have. This is coming from SACEM, SNEP, and SCPP, which are similar to the RIAA etc. It's no different from what is happening in the US. Overall, France is _not_ hostile to open-source. Heck, my (state-dependant) university uses Fedora Core.
And please stop these stupid jokes over war/cheese. You're just jealous.
...to dislike the French.
By the end of the month, France will have surrendered to the FSF.
Take all free / open source software and all derived products and services out of France.
I'd like to see:
a) how fast SACEM, SNEP, SCPP can back-peddle.
b) some good riots. The French are know for this.
-... ---
'"This means that oil imported into the U.S. financed about 52 percent of the illegal surcharges paid to the Hussein regime ... These percentages roughly correspond to the percentages of Iraqi oil sent to the U.S. and elsewhere during this period," Berkovitz said '
In other words, America accounted for more of the Oil for Food scams than everyone else combined, even excluding foreign proxies for Americans. I think the French word for that is "touché", or maybe "merde de taureau".
--
make install -not war
Jealous of the cheese? Yes.
:(
Jealous of the war? Are you kidding?
France has been through a LOT of war. Some of it kicking ass, some it getting kicked. But either way, France has historically spent a lot of time fighting wars.
More so (over the longer perspective) than even the extremely violent superpower, the U.S.
Send me some French cheese and wine please. Not to mention some French women, and a few good French chefs.
But not, I'm definitely not jealous of the French wars
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
Vous n'avez aucune chance de survivre faites votre temps.
Circumcision is child abuse.
reminds me of a bumper sticker i see everyday in the parking lot.. "France: Irrelevant for over 150 years."
Armed peasants and gillotene.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Maybe this is all just a misunderstanding and France isn't upset abut the actual terms of the license, but that the license isn't written in proper French legalese, and thus is a pox on the French language.
...to officially change the name to Freedom Software...
Hey- why doesn't someone hire Jerry Lewis as a free software spokesman?
Oh yeah, that's the fsffrance.com webserver surrendering to the /. bomb.
AC: Only on slashdot... could the sentence "My hovercraft is full of eels." be moderated "+4, Insightful
...yeah but....you gotta admit....they do good lunch....
Most Americans aren't even talking about the real country France. The sad thing is that the joke's on them.
I didn't think it was possible, but seeing all these replies makes me kind of ashamed of being part of the Slashdot community. I mean, occasional trolls are one thing, but more than hundred posts of fresh new jokes and insightful rants about France, that's just really embarassing. Signal to noise was never this bad. And the only on-topic comments by people who bothered to read the article came down to this being sort of a non-issue.
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
Ally with the powerful French in this war. (Oh wait, did we say French? DOH!!!)
nbody2002:If you can read this you may be addicted to the internet
The deuce you say!
I simply cannot imagine such a thing as the world outside the USA being a faultless, perfect, holy and unblemished paradise of higher beings who have no faults at all.
Wow. I just broke my *own* sarcasm meter, and it's a top of the line Agilent.
This is BY FAR the STUPIDEST article I have seen on /.
Good job Zonk.
Let me tell you that the editorial's title ("France Hostile To Open Source Software?") is very misleading for a very simple reason: the anti Free Software statements have been made by the SNEP and SCPP, which are --guest what-- 2 lobbying groups created by various music companies. Here is a small list of companies belonging to those groups: Sony BMG, EMI, Universal, Warner Music France, Walt Disney Company, etc. Complete lists can be found on their websites:
Those 2 lobbying groups are obviously anti-P2P (and they say it clearly on their respective websites) and that explains totally why they are so anti Free Software, knowing that BitTorrent as well as other popular P2P tools are Free Softwares. But in no way whatsoever have the French in general, or the France Government, made any anti Free Software statements. We all remember those various stories that prove quite the contrary !
As a supporter of Free Software, and french citizen, I am quite sad to see this story posted on Slashdot. It just makes people have a bad opinion about us :(
Are they upset because the Americans stopped calling it French software?
...of the English Ministry of Silly Walks on OSS?
LPayed 6.5 million
Made New zealand rapid about anti-nuclear.
They where anti nuclear before the sinking, buit the pretty much cemented it.
Finally:
"Operation SATANIC was a public relations disaster.."
you think? who the hell allowed it to be called that? I mean, it could have brought world peace, and that name still would have made it a public relations nightmare.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
We will just name those open source software as "free software", just like the good old freedom fries.
Oh, wait...
It appears that "access to culture" is FSF France's phrase to describe circumventing DRM - so e.g. ripping a Britney Spears CD qualifies as "access to culture" (counterintuitive as that may seem!)
The phrase probably resonates in France what with all the emphasis on preserving & celebrating French culture. (Message to France: just surrender to US cultural imperialism already, you know you want to!)
It's a wonderfully loaded phrase, as in "you don't want to deny the people access to culture, do you?"
Hey people "Can't we all just get along?" Enough of this French Vs. The United States crap. Leave that to the professional politicians in both countries. This is a threat to both countries in terms of Free Open Source Software. The real question is not which country is better, we have the Olympics for that... but which software is better, and how are we as a community going to defend that software.
My own translations.
D VSI.html :
e ls-libres.html :
from http://www.infos-du-net.com/actualite/5760-loi-DA
The law covers "the act of circumventing technical measures (of protection) or making available methods permitting such circumvention, understood that these methods have a limited commercial purpose or a limited use for purposes other than circumvention."
So, the law, if passed, will make it illegal to circumvent these protections, to make software that is capable of circumventing or that makes it easier to circumvent, its possession, promotion of such a system, communication for the same purpose, all with a penalty of 300 000 euros and 3 years in prison.
from http://www.infos-du-net.com/actualite/5837-logici
"You will stop the publication of software [...] [We are ready to] pursue the authors of Free software who continue to divulge their source code [...]". On 18 nov 2005, at the Culture ministry, the SACEM took the world to court.
SACEM is attacking Free software? This is not a fantasy, it's a reality supported by SNEP and SCPP, two other powerful defenders of music and the rights of authors in France. But where is the connection between these different guardians of culture and software? The answer is simply the vote on the amendment "VU/SACEM/BSA/FT Division Contenus" of the DADVSI law that we've talked so much about these last few weeks.
[...]
Pressure on the government:
The last meeting of the Commission Sirinelli of the CSPLA (superior advisors on intellectual property) finally ended in an agitated debate with three powerful organizations opposed against the advocates for Free software.
For Christophe Espern, the representative of Creative Commons France and co-founder of EUCD.INFO, the debate was nonsensical. "How can people pretend to defend culture and at the same time seek to stop the only software that allows everyone to access it? In my opinion, the contradiction is obvious: their intention is to control the public; culture is just a pretext."
But for SNEP and SCPP the objective is simple and clear: "You will change your licenses".
For whatever reason, the government is maintaining that the adoption of this bill is "urgent", which brings it to the forefront of debate and gives it priority treatment. As far as why it's so urgent - some people are asking why it's so urgent to pass a plan on intellectual property when the social issues related to the riots requires a national debate - nothing seems to justify this sudden interest in a subject unless it's the economic pressure of these powerful groups.
The amendment didn't have to be proposed immediately, but a special meeting was held on Nov 25, and the decision now rests in the hands of the Parliament.
*** This post is under CC-BY. Please feel free to edit/improve it***
home page
Are they fighting about content al RIAA or are they simply representing commerical software companies?
If I could, I'd mod you up to 6.
So MS has its tentacles in the French government?
That is not surprising, since they have no scruples to destroy innovation and freeedom in other countries (such as South Korea). Its time for the FOSS community to lobby governemnts in earnest and stem this tide of MS goons from taking over the computing world entirely.
Lobby, lobby, lobby. Its the only way to defeat the Juggernaut that is MS.
For all money, thanks Gates, Bill . Fuck Off, source open now.
"Sure there's porn and piracy on the Web but there's probably a downside too."
This isn't the first time I've seen someone submit something that is a gross misrepresentation of the truth.
The French government is NOT attacking free software. Rather groups within the entertainment industry are attacking P2P software that is distributed for free. This is a copyright infringement case. The fact that the industry goons are attacking free software is incidental. What is particularly telling is the way that this article is written. The author talks about "access to culture" when what he's really talking about is the ability to freely violate copyright law. Someone who wasn't paying close attention might mistakenly assume that the "culture" in question is in fact the free software that is under attack. I'm sure that this confusion is quite intentional.
The slashdot editors seem to be vulnerable to propaganda that plays upon their own fears. I could probably create a fake site with a story declaring that the RIAA had begun hiring contract killers to execute the defendants in their copyright suits and slashdot would publish a link to it.
Forget the slashdot effect, cases like this deserve a name all their own, the SlashDUPE effect.
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
Forcing monitors to duel is cruel and inhumane. This blood sport should be outlawed and people like you put in jail!
It appears that publishing Free Software giving access to culture is about to become a counterfeiting criminal offence.
:-)
Well, no problem there then: there hasn't been any French culture for a century, so there is no danger that open source software will be used to access any.
What makes you think M$ did not have a hand in this? Name the big French software publisher that wants to quash it's competitors and I might think this is somehow different from the DMCA and other stupid laws. While the US might not have a monopoly on digital bad laws, US monopoly business is certainly one of the leading causes.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
We'll pretend you said SGML and XML first of all. Now then, SGML and XML are not programming languages, and cannot be used to create programs. They are not executed.
And I can understand French. The French article this is based on though is cryptic. It seems *they* are trying to lobby parliament to have some control over p2p programs. They want to have some form of control over all p2p programs (checking who downloads what, who makes what available) and would like to make it so that p2p programs cannot be open sourced so as to circumvent methods of stopping IP theft.
Instead of giving the software away for free, by all means, sell it. But then, you can take advantage of a very common commercial gimmick, the big players have come to rely on: the mail-in rebate.
The open source community can develop the first commercial entity to offer 100% rebates. Or, forget the mail-in stuff altogether - make it an instant rebate at the time of purchase.
The original poster is extremely confused, at best.
What the story really is:
- Content industry pressures Europe into having their own version of the american DMCA, the EUCD. It passes.
- The EUCD, as a European directive, needs to be transcribed into every EU member state law.
- France is late transcribing the EUCD into national law and gets fined several times about it.
- The French government starts transcribing EUCD requirements into national law, and gets "friendly advice" about how to do it from (basically) Vivendi Universal and the (influential) french movie & arts industry, and none from the (non vocal and lower influence ) french tech & net industry.
- The EUCD has mostly the same provisions as the DMCA (don't break DRMs, etc) , but the French content industry (backed by US DRM solutions vendors) wants to go further : make DRM support mandatory for basically all software that enables peer-to-peer file swapping, including audio streaming software (to plug the Stationripper hole)
It is that step further (making DRM mandatory) which is inherently incompatible with Open Source software, and threatens to make things like Icecast illegal, that has brought up a stir.
The bill is scheduled for parliament vote on December 22th. More info at http://eucd.info/
Is this propaganda trying to get the mostly US population on /. to hate France? Could just be a comspiracy theory thoough.
Purple, because ice cream has no bones.
This particular search is a well known google bomb that is said to have been instigated by Wbush et friends, when trying to sell his Holy Crusade to Irak (from Wikipedia)....
2 72003)
It is elsewhere attributed to a Mr Cox.
Another example of his (Mr Cox) successfull Google Bombing are "weapons of mass destruction" that was sending to a nicely crafted 404 page.(http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=731
Also of note are "miserable failure", that sent you directly to W Bush latest Biography, and "litigious bastards" , that directed you to SCO...
After this small precision, I would like to be the first to welcome our French Neighbours, 52nd state of the USA, by the will of our Overlords Microsoft and Vivendi Universal....
It's gonna be much harder to have fun at the french, now that we have so much in common....
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
liberal scum like you burn in hell
Just so you know, France's government isn't liberal. Google "Jean-Marie Le Pen" for the historical details, but they basically had to choose between doppelgangern of Gee-Dub or Pat Buchannon, and chose Bush's counterpart.
As for this legislation, it seems to outlaw free software using the internet, under the notion that free software can be modified to remove restrictions on what you do with copyrighted material.
I feel disdain even saying these things to you. I doubt anyone here is familiar with the French Constitution, which requires laws to be reviewed by the Constitutional Committee before they can be enforced. The CC includes former Presidents and legal minds NOT involved in politics. It's kind of like a pre-emptive Supreme Court, and it would almost certainly not approve.
Of course, the likelihood of this amendment passing is low. There was a fuss about this in the U.S., too, when DRM first started being a big issue.
Trust me, the Ministry of Culture is laughed at by most of the government. Considering that the French government is encouraging open-source software (trust me, I know, I have worked with IT professionals in France on database conversions), and that OSS contributes to France's economy significantly, I very very seriously doubt this will be an issue.
I guess maybe I should go on an America-bashing tirade because of your proposed amendments to variously ban gay marriage and rename yourselves "The United States of Earth."
It would indeed affect everyone else. France has, in the past, had no reservations about enforcing its own censorship laws outside of their borders. Put another way: if you can somehow get access to something from France, the government of France claims jurisdiction.
How will they even route their Internet traffic?
I think that problem will solve itself when there isn't any.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
Whine and crackpots, of course.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
- The french Parliament will soon vote on DADVSI, the national version of the european EUCD, which is a copy of the american DMCA. The vote is scheduled to take place at night just before Christmas, under an emergency procedure, while nobody is paying attention. This, in itself, is making people angry.
- SACEM/SNEP/SCPP (the french equivalent of the RIAA) is lobbying for an amendment which reads very much like the american SSSCA/CBDTPA. This amendment can be understood as making DRM mandatory in any software which is ever used to violate copyright laws. That means FTP servers, web servers, etc. Since DRM in source code is easily circumvented, our RIAA could claim that any publisher of an open-source media player or file server is not doing their best to comply with this law.
- SSSCA/CBDTPA was rejected in the USA. Hopefully the FSF's press release will help defeat the french version as well.
AC
There is an online petition against the bill here. It started today and there are already 2087 signatures by individuals and 40 by organisations. Go on and sign.
There is a lot of french bassed open sores out there. Anybody write a book on software design in france, you would be lible. Anyone demonstrating software data flow, you would be in trouble. Anybody who did this outside of France, and entered France would be in trouble.
Maybe a key business deal from Redmond went further than expected?
A variety of contending opinions? More than we expect from a country which calls those little orangeish squares of god-only-knows-what-edible-oil-byproduct they melt on burgers "cheese".
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
If I can use "dd" to read a "protected" CD, is it to be banned? What about the libraries it uses? What about the Linux kernel, since it has device drivers which allow accessing protected media on removable drives?
I hope you see the problem is bigger than you let on.
So we (yes i'am french) won't be allowed to developp some GPL'd anti drm software but in us you won't be allowed to run gpl'd secured communication software!_ to_approve_1.html
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/12/fbi
The difference is that this fcc rule is already passed !
Never before in the history of mankind have the custodians of one culture so clearly, unambiguously, and intentionally pulled their own culture aside to make way for a replacement. This is an opportunity pummeling us across the face. Why can't we see it?
Or maybe they've just got us so figured-out; if they tell us we can't have their lame-as-hell, out-dated, chocolate-fluff culture, we'll just want it all the more.
Peoples, please.
If the Guardians of Culture Past have decreed that we are not to share in the culture they created, let it be so. We need to create our own culture, and share it among ourselves in a way that the previous culture could only dream of. If they themselves have decreed that their culture is to be shared only by a few deserving, privleged, wealthy individuals, why do we argue so? Why do we keep complaining that they need to get a new business model; one that allows us to share in their culture. Have we no culture of our own?
Let their culture die, on 8-track tape and 78RPM vinyl, locked away in DRM-protected artifacts for DRM-protected artifacts that aren't even worth keeping in the attic for the grandkids. They are insisting we must. Surely they know the point of writing it down is to pass it along. Clearly they know something about their own culture they know shouldn't be passed along to the next generation. Perhaps we should be polite, and just not ask.
I might even miss some of their culture a bit. From what I heard, Glen Miller was pretty good. But I refuse to give up my culture for the opportunity to buy, borrow, or steal a piece of theirs. And it's not healthy for you to relinquish yours either.
The thing about things we don't know is we often don't know we don't know them.
Because France only conquered most of Europe :-P
You wrote: "L'amendement "VU / SACEM / BSA / FT Division Contenus" au projet de loi DADVSI cherche à assimiler à un délit de contrefaçon l'édition, la diffusion et la promotion de tout logiciel susceptible d'être utilisé pour mettre à disposition des informations protégées par le droit d'auteur et n'intégrant pas un dispositif de contrôle et de traçage de l'usage privé." (source)
my translation:
The amendment "VU/SACEM/BSA/FT Division Contenus" for the DADVSI bill seeks to include into copyright infrigement the creation, dissemination, and promotion of all software that can be used to read IP-protected media and that does not integrate a method to control and trace this use by private individuals.
***This post licensed under CC-BY***
home page
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
This is actually quite funny, coming from a nation that, more than 200 years ago, revolted against the "elite" and demanded liberty and equality.
Didn't they get it then?
From Wikipedia:
Fanciful stories of how the pastry was created are modern culinary legends. These include tales that it was invented in Vienna in 1683 to celebrate the defeat of the Turkish siege of the city, as a reference to the crescents on the Turkish flags, when bakers staying up all night heard the tunneling operation and gave the alarm; tales linking croissants with the kifli and the siege of Bucharest in 1686; and those detailing Marie Antoinette's hankering after a Viennese specialty. Alan Davidson, editor of the Oxford Companion to Food states that no printed recipe for the present-day croissant appears in any French recipe book before the early 20th century; the earliest French reference to a croissant he found was among the "fantasy or luxury breads" in Payen's Des substances alimentaires, 1853.
The "Siege of Vienna" story seems to owe its wide diffusion to Alfred Gottschalk, who wrote about the croissant for the first (1938) edition of the Larousse Gastronomique. Gottschalk first cited the legend about the Turkish attack on Budapest in 1686, in the "history of food" section in the same work, he opted for the "siege of Vienna in 1683" version.
jibe with this?
It is a solemn thought: dead, the noblest man's meat is inferior to pork.
If Homer were French: Mmmmmmmm cheese.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Doing so would violate the existing GPL and the French would just respond by charging you added-value tax.
Can anyone explain how this has anything to do with "Culture"?
I guess we can soon mark France off the list of "free" countries. You can't publish your own software with source? What about websites since the "source" for XHTML, CSS, and HTML are by nature open?
Will French websites soon be illegal?
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Pour la grande justice.
Wikileaks, no DNS
great story. way to go slashdot. great job Zonk.
This is a new low for slashdot
http://developers.videolan.org/libdvdcss/
It is located in France.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Besides, that was 200 years ago, and more importantly, before there even was one country called "Germany".
You know, the country that every few years sends its troops through the streets of Paris, just to remind the French that they're cheese-eating surrender monkeys? OK, so now it's bankers and not tanks, but the idea is the same.
Remember, France is the same country that has people die of heat in the summer and cold in the winter, and routinely has what would be called "race riots" were they in the US, where cars are turned into torches.
Because TCP/IP is BSD licenced, and does not support DRM, wouldn't this effectively ban internet as a whole?
How much control? Geese thats easy.. they want it ALL.
Anything less then total control scares them.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I don't think that Slashdot is anti-UN. Complaints about the UN has been recent and specific to control of ICANN's job being handed over the the UN. I think that Slashdot tends to be anti-authoritarian WRT the Internet.
And, frankly, I also think that the status quo is better than trying to involve the UN. The reason the Internet has done so well is because relevant people that could have squashed by trying to poke at it and regulate it have kept their hands the hell off it.
The US government has done a pretty good job of not playing politics with ICANN's work. The last thing that I want is red tape strangling every smart engineer out there who is trying to advance technology.
Handing something to the UN nearly *guarantees* that it will become politicized. The whole *point* of the UN is to have a diplomatic forum. I don't *want* that.
If the US starts doing a poor job of handling what ICANN's been doing, *then* I can see start talking about the UN. But I don't want to break something that isn't broken for the sake of making someone politically happy. I'm rather more interested in whether things are technically okay.
Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
Although I find the idea of trying to block OSS disgusting, I am trying to see the other side of it.
I see that there is a legitimate concern that OSS could destroy/damage commercial software/technology. OSS is essentially a little communist organization, which just happens to work great for us, becuase we are intelligent people willing to share for the benefit of others. Unfortunately, communism doesn't mesh well with capitalism, hence the problem here.
And no, I don't think its an option to try to bring everyone else into our little communist party either, the vast majority of people do not possess the will or capability to do something purely to benefit others, hence they need to work in their current (seemingly effective) capitalist market.
Anyone want to comment?
Big ones, small ones, some as big as yer 'ead!
Give 'em a twist, a flick o' the wrist...
This report is fundamentally flawed: the French department of culture is saying nothing, the original sources are both about a meeting taking place inside the building of the department of culture, where the SACEM, SNEP and SCPP (the likes of RIAA and MPAA) have talked against free P2P software. ...
The error apparently his that the reader didn't see the full stop after Culture is the following sentences:
Friday November 18th, 2005, French Department of Culture.
SNEP and SCPP have told Free Software authors:
The French version is more explicit about the Ministere being just a location.
How would it violate it?
The GPL does not forbid selling software.
This whole article is a misunderstanding. The French's press release in English was just poorly worded. When the original text is looked at it is obvious that the French are only instituting a DMCA of their own (sucks!). They are also banning open source software that is used to pirate. This is what we should really be complaining about. See article on techdirt for details. http://techdirt.com/articles/20051202/1451240_F.sh tml
Great webhosting, cheap rates! Enter code SlashdotDiscount
Hey, at least one can't claim that open source is communism anymore!
bill oriley and the frenche ...do the home work . mandriva is on the down hill go . so lettem keeep there code
Despite the fact that I have appreciated France's foreign policy stances, I would trade our insanity (in the US) for their insanity any day.
That didn't come out right. I meant to say that they can keep their insanity and I would rather have Bush in office as stupid as he seems than have to deal with their governmental problems.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
It's interesting to examine recent history and see exactly why the French military is laughed at so much:
In the last hundred years, there have been three major military operations France was involved in. The first was WWI, where France (and its allies) stopped the invasion launched by Germany (and its allies), fought for a few years, and eventually won. So that's not the reason.
The second major war was WWII, where the French army was bulldozed by the most powerful military force on the planet at that time, Nazi Germany. While France and its allies eventually won that war, too, and their loss against a larger and more powerful force is hardly unreasonable, their reliance on the foolish Maginot Line was unwise, and is the source of a little bit of the scorn you so often hear.
It's France's most recent major military action, however, that is by far the most shameful and humbling, and makes their army a fair target for ridicule. Though France was still rebuilding after being all but destroyed ten years earlier in WWII, the sheer disparity between the power of France and the country they lost to is laughable. There is no excuse for a nation as large, powerful, rich, and advanced to lose to a nation as tiny, weak, poor, and backward as Vietnam .
One of the world's 10 most powerful countries, losing a war to one of the world's least powerful? Can you imagine?? No wonder we don't respect their military.
My father had the misfortune to be born in France, and the officious French required that his surname be listed as Hollan on his birth certificate.
This caused some degree of embarassment when he had to explain why his surname differed from that of his parents.
I have thought, at various times, to legally change my surname back to the original spelling.
You could've hired me.
> It appears that publishing Free Software giving access to culture is about to become a counterfeiting criminal offence
What does "access to culture" mean?
> ...the Big Players in the field of culture...
What is the "field of culture"?
Could we get a translation into English that's appropriate for a plain, simple, rural American boy like me?
Hmm, I guess going commercial wouldn't, but the value added tax would violate the GPL (thus making GPL software illegal in that country) since you are forced to add a restriction on redistribution (namely that a tax must be paid since anyone who redistributes is a manufacturer and subject to the tax).
But seeing that is what the French want, I guess they are not too likely to complain about that.
It seems to me that this is all aimed at P2P... publishing free P2P software or source code for it counts. It doesn't seem that they're going after sed/awk/grep and other free software.
Start a happiness pandemic
Is there actually some real, (presumably orange) honest-to-god CHEESE that's actually called "American Cheese"? Because I've never seen the word "cheese" on so-called "American Cheese" that wasn't immediately followed by the qualifying word, "food". As in, "cheese food". If all American Cheese is, by definition, "Cheese Food" and NOT real cheese, how can there be such a thing as "American Cheese" in the first place? Or was there at one time such a thing as real American Cheese, but nobody ate it because it didn't melt nicely until some guy whose last name was "Kraft" invented "cheese food", figured out how to wrap the slices in heatshrink plastic to keep them from drying out and going bad, and turned (so-called) "American Cheese" into a viable product?
Certainly secondary contributers have a claim, but that is their own, non-anonymous copyright.
Wikileaks, no DNS
Well then. I'll take my Freedom Software and go home.
Don't ping my cheese with your bandwidth!
Any effort to deny humans to take the choice of providing vlaue in a world contribution is very very exposing of those in support of such a bill.
The reprocussions of such a bill passing is most of all exposing of the human advancement need to get rid of systems that allow such small small people to even considered such a bill.
Market is based upon choice, consumer choice. It is the consumer choice at the heart of Free open source software beginnings and expansion.
The small people involved in support of such a bill seriously fail to understand teh reprocussions they will face.
It appears to be about copyright infringement. I am sure the comment was about Open Source P2P software, not ALL Open Source software.
...). Cet amendement surréaliste a été rédigé à l'origine par Vivendi Universal, puis retravaillé par plusieurs membres de la commission Sirinelli, une commission du Conseil Supérieur de la Propriété Littéraire et Artistique.
You would think so, but no. This bans all open-source software that could send copyrighted data over the network. In other words: Apache, Samba, Openssh, mozilla/firefox/thunderbird/etc., gaim, KDE's kioslaves, GNOME's gnomevfs -- hell -- this law probably bans even glibc (sockets!) and the Linux kernel (raw packet interface). That's right. FTP clients and servers are banned. CUPS is banned (you can use IPP to transfer arbitrary data to a printer on another machine). BIND is banned (I believe you can tunnel connections over DNS requests).
Basically, any program that can move copyrighted data over the network cannot allow the user to modify its source code.
THESE PEOPLE ARE FSCKING INSANE.
Here is the original French:
Un amendement au projet de loi DADVSI, ayant pour objectif d'assimiler à un délit de contrefaçon, l'édition, la diffusion et la promotion de tout logiciel susceptible d'être utilisé pour mettre à disposition des informations protégées par le droit d'auteur et n'intégrant pas un dispositif de contrôle et de traçage de l'usage privé (mesure technique). Tout logiciel permettant le téléchargement comme certains logiciels de discussion instantané (chat), tout logiciel serveur est concerné (P2P, HTTP, FTP, SSH,
by definition, "Cheese Food" and NOT real cheese, how can there be such a thing as "American Cheese" in the first place?
What is defined and regulated as American cheese by the USDA is actually a mild cheddar or sometimes Colby and is real cheese (i.e. pressed curd of milk, seasoned and aged). Of course more common in supermarkets is stuff like 'Processed American Cheese'.
"Cheese Food" along with variants like processed cheese etc. is defined by the USDA as cheese (usually Colby or mild cheddar) blends with added milk and milk products and or cream and an emusifier to prevent separation. These ingredients are added to aid melting and / or spreading or providing a smooth texture and improve storage characteristics.
So it really is real cheese at least at the start.
What isn't France hostile to? Down with France! Ling Live Open Source!
Nor are they [generally] martyrdom-glorifying jihadist nutcases like 'rabs [generally] are. Get your facts straight, and don't tar all middle-eastern types with the arab brush. Even most US politicians know that. Are you really more ignorant than a US politician?
http://persianews.on.nimp.org/?u=Tar_Baby
Now that we've had all the jokes and funnies, how about somebody actually translating bill in question? I know a bit of French, but not enough to cover legalese.
-Lars
like that scene in cryptonomicon...
"... I declare our city to be a free and independent state to be named Tri-Insula!" --Fernando Wood, Mayor of NYC 1861
George Bush was right!
If this law really targets software that can be used to transfer copyrighted material and doesn't include DRM, wouldn't that include, say, HTTP and SMTP? If those RIAA-lookalikes sue anybody under this law, they themselves should be countersued for having a webserver.
Well until this is sorted out, we should call french fries "free-software fries"
...where a meta-rant is 5 times more likely to be seen as insightful.
I could be wrong, though...rusty, as I said. In any case, it doesn't seem that different from other laws passed elsewhere, and the firefox/OpenOffice people could relax? Someone else can confirm/refute.
No. This go quite further than the DMCA or EUCD. DMCA only prevent you from breaking DRM protections.
Here, they say they will forbid every software that is not DRM enabled ! And the DRM has to be "up-to-date", whatever that means. This will prevent the use of a lot of free open-source software.
You are right. And don't forget that Apache (and all HTTPD servers), FTP servers, NFS, can be used to exchange copyrighted works. So they will be also forbidden.
French readers take note:
There is a petition against the French EUCD implementation attempt at
http://eucd.info/petitions/index.php?petition=2
It makes DRM mandatory in all software that enables P2P file transmission (that includes IM), and multimedia streaming.
Open Source software is out of the game de facto
That's exactly what it does, although it takes a bit of reading to figure it out...
Also, that the french MPAA basically told the OSS people to fuck off at the recent meeting. They said that open source programmers must relicense their software unless they want to be criminals.
--simon
home page
it says that it plans to put on the same level as counterfaiting
It's about copyright infringement, which is in french, the same word as counterfeiting.
--simon
home page
Wrong.
The Axis powers involved in the Battle of France had 3,350,000 men, as compared to the 2,862,000 the Allies had, or 17% more. Considering that the Allied army included significant numbers of British, Dutch, and Belgian troops (about 40 divisions, or roughly 20% of the total force), but the Axis side was purely German until after the Battle of France had been essentially won (June 10), there were far more German troops than French. Moreover, the French troops were often older than is ideal for conscripts, due to demographics (a smaller population than Germany and heavy losses in WWI).
> AND the French had better armour.
This part is true, and the French also had more armour; however, the Blitzkrieg was, essentially, a brilliant new tactic that caught everyone (even some of the German commanders...) off-guard. Combined with the large German advantage in air power, the Allied armies never really had a chance to recover.
> The Vietnamese did not defeat anyone. The Communists did.
You say "The Communists" like one would say "The Bogeyman".
Man up - the Vietnamese chased off France, and then they chased off the US. I'm continually amazed how many people have such fragile confidence in their country that they're unable to face that reality.
make it mandatory for future FRENCH law makers to eat .. :P
french beef everyday! maybe they can think straight
again after that
nobody likes a hungry politician:
http://www.openi.co.uk/oi040716.htm
Seemed insufficiently snooty, though.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
Seems to me that Videolan (by École Centrale Paris) could get hit by this since it circumvents the region coding on DVDs. Better get that source downloaded now!
It would be a shame if VLC goes. It is an excellent product.
If the French gov't is that serious about absenting themselves from
what is proving to be the most significant - and accepted - advance
in the state of the software arts since the advent of Fortran, then
by all means let them. The world needs a good example of where this
kind of nonsense can lead, and France will be, as ever, a wonderful
bad example.
Wrong.
The Vietnam War involved few troops from anyone other than the USA and Vietnam. That North Vietnam had advisors or equipment from the USSR does not change the basic fact that the USA was driven out primarily by the Vietnamese, much as the Soviets were driven out of Afghanistan primarily by local soldiers.
> No one EVER says the Kuwaitis chased out Iraq
That's because the troops that chased Iraq out of Kuwait were not Kuwaiti troops!
What nationality were the majority of troops that chased Iraq out of Kuwait? American.
What nationality were the majority of troops that chased USSR out of Afghanistan? Afghani.
What nationality were the majority of troops that chased USA out of Vietnam? Vietnamese.
That's why we say the Iraqis were chased out by the Americans, the Soviets were chased out be the Afghanis, and the Americans were chased out by the Vietnamese---because that's who the troops were.
Yes, but what's the definition of artificial cheese food substitute?
I live in France - and have for these last 30 years. I've read the comments and TFA posted here. I've got two suggestions for you folks ; let the French deal with this and you go back to listening to George Bush about how to manage the war in Iraq, for example. Our beef only has illegal hormones - can you say the same ?
How many beans make five, anyhow ?
"She"'s actually a man.
Yes, but what's the definition of artificial cheese food substitute?
at least 40% paradichlorobenzene, the remainder a mix of orthodichlorobenzene and fulminate of mercury.
The French government is planning a law against Open Source means of sharing information on the web. It is supposed to encourage people to share copyrighted music without a licence. Only software allowing restrictions - concerning the data being transmitted - to be enforced would be legal. Open Source software doesn't fit this criteria, as the coded restrictions can always be deleted from the code. This law has been declared urgent by the government under pressure from the music industry and is scheduled to be presented to parliament on December 20 and 21, 2005. When most MPs won't be there. Please help us by signing the petition on http://eucd.info/petitions/index.php?petition=2 It's in french, but you just have to click "Signer la pétition" and to fill in your name, profession (optional) and email. A email asking for confirmation will be sent to you and you have to click on the confirmation link they give for your signature to be validated. Please pass on this information. It is NOT a spam or a hoax or a joke. Unfortunately... Mariane