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19 Charged in Alleged Software Piracy Plot
Brainsur writes "
A federal grand jury has indicted 19 people on charges they used the Internet to pirate more than $6.5 million worth of copyrighted computer software, games and movies.The indictment outlines an alleged plot by defendants from nine states, Australia and Barbados to illegally distribute newly released titles, including movies like "The Incredibles" and "The Aviator," and games like "Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2005."
A warez group.
Not some super secret terrorist organisation out to destroy america's economy.
perpetually dwelling in the -1 pits
What is that 6.5 million based on? Is that the retail price of the product normally? Or is it that $250,000 per infringement copyright thing?
...my favorite trumpin'-up charge.
Excellent! Now that RISCISO is out of the way, WAREZCO can sweep in and fill the void unopposed. I keep reading the history of Al Capone, its so easy, I didn't even have to line these guys up and mascacre them in a fake police sting!
Long live darknets! A thousand more spring up...
I guess that means the other 50 cracking groups are all quaking in their boots now doesn't it?
~S
we don't make that distinction.
"AFP/File Photo: Computer connected to the internet."
Just in case, ya know... You didn't know what a computer connected to the internet looked like.
"And then I visited Wikipedia
I have no idea how they managed to pirate $6.5 million in software. Assuming the average price of a movie is $7, they would have needed to pirate over 900,000 movies. And to think that they can only be given up to 5 years of prison. They should have to pay for all that stolen software, which is quite a figure even when divided by 19.
It's people like these who make it more and more difficult just to use software because of the security features they add. I can't tell you how many times iTunes has spontaniously wiped all the files on it.
- Nick
Their "Computer connected to the internet" picture is one of IE saying there is no connection.
that these pirates can hold in their ships. What they don't say is if that's per ship or per fleet. I don't know. If you don't stop them, they'll get bigger and faster ships, and who knows how much software they can pirate then!
Parent article misses the major problem here - the US DOJ is going to spend boatloads of cash extraditing two of the kids in this case, one from Australia and one from Barbados. Warez is justification for extradition? The DOJ even admits in its press release that profit was not an issue here. This makes it wide-scale file sharing, and a waste of John Q. Public's tax dollars. Good job FBI/DOJ/assorted alphabet organizations wasting funds and following orders from bribed politicians... oh sorry, those were "campaign contributions" from the movie and software industries...
As a shareware developer, I could care less about kids cracking my software, but I'm getting damn sick of the charade going on as the BSA cries (to its own benefit only) about the evils of piracy.
weird, usually the infiltrate a bunch of sites and bust all the groups using them. i wonder how they managed to bust just one group? do you think they have "undercover agents" pose as suppliers and then bust the groups from within? i've always wondered how they go about doing this.
From the article:
"Online thieves who steal merchandise that companies work hard to produce"
I though he was saying:
Online thieves who steal products that companies work hard to merchandise
Way to go Feds! 19 down, 19,999,981 to go. You guys rock!
-Arthur
Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules
I thought of doing that, selling warez cds and dvds on ebays (even tho its prohibited and they watch for that, people still do it anyway). Guess what. There is no market.
Take a look at used software for sale on ebay. Thousands of used titles with no takers. The bottom has fallen out of software business long ago. Next to go was the music business, and then the movie business. Its not even worthwhile to duplicate them and list them.
There is such a flood of media and digital data, that its very hard to sell such a thing anymore. Ask any music artist or band trying to sell their cd. There just are no takers. Its gone long ago.
To think that PGA Golf and The Aviator are items in hot demand is laughable... me thinks we are being baited.
"Just in case, ya know... You didn't know what a computer connected to the internet looked like."
A Window's computer with "Help Me!" displayed on it's monitor
Anyone care to explain why conspiracy attracts a harsher sentence than the actual crime? I mean, leaving aside the whole moral quagmire surrounding the criminalization of copyright infringement, how can thinking and talking about doing something carry a harsher penalty than actually doing it. Does this type of duality apply in traditional crimes like assault, murder and larceny?
Be careful. People in masks cannot be trusted.
We can all sit back and relax once again.
The frustrating/disappointing thing about all these lawsuits and 'victories' over piracy is that with every win, groups like the MPAA/RIAA only feel more firmly that their new business model (CRUSH, SUE, EXTORT, EXTERMINATE!) is a successful and long term one. Each time a major 'piracy bust' hits the news it only further propagates the myth that Piracy is what's driving declines in Movies, Music, Software and Games. When the real culprit (though, obviously Piracy does play some part) is Quality, Price, and the Media (DRM disks, copy once CDs, Theaters, Star-Force, ect).
But then again, I'm preaching to the choir here...
I think that this headline, and even the beginning of the article, truly works as a scare tactic for the MPAA. No, I'm not thinking of a conspiracy, but think about how this situation worked in reality-
The defendants, many of whom worked in high-tech jobs, were members of "RISCISO," a "warez" community founded in 1993, according to the indictment. Warez groups are underground associations that use the Internet to illegally distribute copyrighted software.
Okay, right. A warez group got busted. Great. But the headline reads 19 Charged in Alleged Software Piracy Plot. Piracy plot? And the worst part, by far, is the opening of the article- A federal grand jury has indicted 19 people on charges they used the Internet to pirate more than $6.5 million worth of copyrighted computer software, games and movies. To the untrained eye, this seems just like every day Bob who downloaded a film or two...
I think it's a scare tactic. I don't like it. But then again, maybe I'm paranoid and stuff...
- dshaw
While I'm as big a fan as anybody of bootleg software, I still couldn't understand why the comment "I hope they throw the book at them." was modded down as FLAMEBAIT? I've noticed that the moderators seem to have an agenda and typically mod counter opinions down... Not very sportsman like is it? Ok... go ahead, mod me down too .....
They're only prosecuting this group because they aren't trafficking enough of the kinds of things this District Attorney likes to watch. If they had their ascii-art all over a season or two of Law & Order, they could have saved themselves a lot of legal trouble.
I think it's great that they are trying to stop blatant theft, but this sort of story is more symbolic and a trophy for the DOJ than actually significant. No matter how many people they are able to thwart, it is going to be a drop in the bucket as far as worldwide warez volume goes. The government simply dosen't have the resources to find and prosecute every single offender of software theft.
As many as 60 members of the group, many of whom work in the computer field and live across the United States, tapped into their tightly controlled computer servers loaded with stolen merchandise that would fill 23,000 compact discs and was valued at $6.5 million, prosecutors said. Initially, the stolen software was sent to servers set up overseas.
23,000 CD's! Nooooooo! That's 14 x 1 TB drives.
So of the 60 members, how many had all 14 TB at home? After all, that's enough illegal mp3's to keep me happy in prison until 2034, loooong after five years plus three years maximum sentence.
I'm perfectly cool with that...
I mean, if you think about it, these guys have been violating countless international laws since '93...
I hope they get the book thrown at them as well.
Shots: A Populist Parable
It would take a moron. Or an MPAA lawyer....
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Stuff like this makes me happy I use open-source that is free of cost :).
also we did not worry about drinking and driving because they rummer was there was no law against it as the police had no breathalyzer equipment.
Anyone else find it ridiculeous?
While the slashdot crowd may boo and bitch about cracking down on people downloading or uploading a copy of something, it is a real problem.
Certainly, it should be pretty low on the priority list as far as the FBI or any government agency is concerned, but that doesn't mean it should be ignored when hard evidence can be brought against large-scale criminals, as these 19 supposedly are.
The problem with warez is that it's easy. While cracking DRM and copyright may not be simple, once that's done, it's easy for anyone and everyone to download it. It isn't even limited by speed- a fairly patient person could download, say, a Doom 4 ISO if they wanted.
Because of this ease, and the much lower risk of being caught (hence its prevalence), it is biting into income of companies. The numbers that they throw out may or may not be exact, but you can just shrug them away and say it hurts noone.
However, the penalties placed against some of these people are a bit odd. A slap on the wrist and a $100 fine doesn't really cut it for large distributors, but some of the jailtime and fines that I've read about seem unrealistic. After all, they are copying something, not taking it, so they aren't depriving the original owner of anything (assuming that the original owner didn't intend for the download.) Downloading a CD should bring far less of a penalty than stealing a physical CD from a store.
It is rightfully modded down because it's not bringing any new ideas to the table and is just making a rather inciting comment. In other words, trying to start a flamewar.
Bring a good, detailed argument about why non-profit copyright violators should be punished to the fullest extent of the law and then we can have a more reasonable debate.
I am willing to bet that somewhere behind the scenes, it was the MPAA who was behind this, rather than software companies. I suspect that software companies learned long ago that piracy, generally speaking, can help their business and market share in the long run. All the MPAA has learned is that intimidating people works 95% of the time, and that they have not yet figured out how to produce movies that aren't total shit.
Its just a thought, and I'll probably be modded down as flamebait or worse, but after all the money that the US government has spent on anti-terrorism, and trying to find Bin Laden, perhaps this is just a result of the Republican Party telling groups they have some control over (no wanting to start that as an argument) that they better show some kind of progress for all the money spent...
All the money spent by the US government lately has achieved exactly what? There just have been no successes in all this, and I think that they (you know who 'they' are) are looking for successes as the election nears. I know that the *AA will be proud of how their 'campaign contributions' were spent... I am just wondering what the American public will think of how the dollars were spent... hunting down grandmas and wiretapping anyone and everyone...
Makes me think there just might be a conspiracy in here somewhere?????
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
Stop buying their movies and/or cds and they will feel the pain. It will start with reduced revenues, and ultimately result in their disintermediation as the music creators see there's more money to be made going solo.
Why the US DoJ doesn't hurry up and name itself "Ministry of Profit" already. The pretence is tiresome.
``Ragnarok
add upto 6.5mil?
I didn't know there was that much current software in existence.
You cannot know anything unless you pay for it first- and without a money back guarantee. You cannot listen to music, see theater, or learn unless you pay- and without a money back guarantee. If I buy a lemon, and it's core is rotten and infested- I can return it. If I buy a music CD and the music is complete crap complete with DRM so that I can't actually play it- not only do I not get my money back but I don't even own the said piece of crap. It's a rental.
Is this how humanity evolved? Is this how we will be able to retain knowledge in the future? What the fuck are libraries but mass piracy collectives?
Here is the truth of it, and it will piss off pretty much everyone in this non-manufacturing based economy.
You either know something or you do not. It is either secret or it is not. And in the end, all things are known.
You cannot own knowledge. It was never yours to begin with. The language I am speaking now was giving to me by thousands of years of other English speakers. It is not mine to own. The word "fkucherry" that I just made up does not belong to me. It is a contruct of what I've learned from others. It is knowledge.
When this understanding is realized, say after a catastrophic event, then Linux will no longer need the GPL along with all other proprietary software/entertainment data. And the data that will be able to survive at that point will be open data, as Linux is today. It will save our asses- mark my words. Windows and all those shit programs that those people copied won't be worth a drop of piss. Nobody will be able to modify it. It will be useless.
And so here is what I think of arresting very smart people in high end technical positions. Maybe they know something that you don't? Maybe they aren't paid by people that get their money from PAC funded politicians. Maybe they are archiving data educating more people than your broken government ever could. Maybe we should all think about what this means.
I have to tell you that the moment Intellect and Knowledge became legal property is the moment that you have no "lawful" rights to your own thoughts. That does not serve anyone and never has.
Just like crime in New York... the cops started making huge differences when they started going after petty criminals: grafitti artists, shop lifters, purse snatchers, etc. You don't clean up society by waiting until criminals do something 'extreme'. I'm fine with cops/fbi enforcing laws. Why shouldn't they?
Actually I thought it was the money that we pay for oil that the arab governments then use to pay the terrorists off so they don't go after them.
"It's so convenient to have a system where everyone is a criminal" - A. Hitler
"wiretapping anyone and everyone..."
Why do you believe the media's lies about every issue?
This article may be a recycle, the group mentioned "RiSCiSO" has been listed in previous cases. I would hope these guys wouldnt continue their practices, and even if they did that they would find a different name to use. Also, the DOJ has always posted press releases about their busts the same day as they happen on http://www.cybercrime.gov/ipcases.htm
"Perhaps ... but let's face facts, this wouldn't be happening if certain powerful interests hadn't spent some money on certain obliging lawmakers. And I'm sure that, if one looks around, one can find conspiricies far more deserving of law enforcement attention. That is really my problem with this: that mass quantities of government resources can be spent to serve corporate interests. Cops have better things to do."
/.ers don't get it though, so this post is a waste of time
I'd rather have cops worrying about this than grand theft auto, for instance. Stealing a few cars is far less serious than providing a free copy of software, movies, etc to anyone who wants it.
"It is rightfully modded down because it's not bringing any new ideas to the table and is just making a rather inciting comment. In other words, trying to start a flamewar.
/.ers have a groupthink attitude that piracy is ok, and prosecution of it is a problem, since as I just mentioned the opposing opinion would not have been modded down. Therefore, moderating in /. is a form of censorship.
Bring a good, detailed argument about why non-profit copyright violators should be punished to the fullest extent of the law and then we can have a more reasonable debate."
But if he said, these guys got railroaded, it also brings nothing to the table but wouldn't have been modded down. As for a flamewar, you presuppose that
Vote for Pedro
Stop charging so much for software and you would see that $6.5 million drop down.
No, no, no! That's EXTERMINATE! ELIMINATE! DISTROY! Don't you know anything about how those Daleks work?
Good, inexpensive web hosting
The lost tax revenue alone makes up for the cost of prosecuting.
Vote for Pedro
Maybe they had a complete set of MAME roms. That should account for most of the price stated, as they will count each game at about $20,000 retail.
those crooks should be exiled to an island where they could be with other crooks like themselves! maybe they'll end up forming their own country and... oh, wait
When you use software and don't pay for it, you are taking money away from people who write commercial software. That is morally equivalent to theft.
I guess you'll be using the Windows XP version then.
spoonerize "magic trackpad"
19 men have just been arrested for participating in a warez group. It has been estimated that they stole nearly $3,000,000 of GNU software.
"I have to tell you that the moment Intellect and Knowledge became legal property is the moment that you have no "lawful" rights to your own thoughts. That does not serve anyone and never has."
From the time wasted reading your thoughts, it's pretty clear that no one wants them and they have no value. So it's no surprise you want other people's thoughts for free.
"Witholding Tax". This is why the average tax payer doesn't worry about the multimillion dollars used to find these pyrates. It's just an abstract concept. We spent $10/20/30/40/60 million dollars, gathering evidence against these criminals, to preserve Sony BMG/Universal/MGM's business model. The man-power salaries alone probably amount to $10 million, during the course of this "investigation".
Never mind there's Mexican and Columbian drug cartels running Hollywood's cocaine across the border, and al-Queda operatives sneaking through tunnels into California.
It's time for a revolution, and there's no need to go liberal marxist. We just need un-corrupt people who would rather be tending a farm or delivering babies or teaching mathematics. We need Congresswomen and Congressmen who don't really care for the power, and are just there to do the best they can in 4 years, re-election or not.
Our system of government is broke, and it's broke because all the people who should have the power don't want it, and all the people who should not have the power....have it.
"Stop charging so much for software and you would see that $6.5 million drop down."
Yes, if you charge $0 for software, than your piracy losses are $0, and you have nothing to worry about from piracy.
Vote for Pedro
WOW. 1993. For 13 years, they held the top. It's a sad day when one of the oldest and most respected groups out there gets hit like this. Rise in Superior Couriering. GG.
But if he said, these guys got railroaded, it also brings nothing to the table but wouldn't have been modded down. As for a flamewar, you presuppose that /.ers have a groupthink attitude that piracy is ok, and prosecution of it is a problem, since as I just mentioned the opposing opinion would not have been modded down. Therefore, moderating in /. is a form of censorship.
/. have a groupthink attitude.
/., even if there is a /. groupthink.
It's interesting how you claim such a "railroaded" comment would not be modded down, and the try to claim the parent (to your post) presupposed that those on
The parent only suggested the original poster had a position and was presenting it in an uninsightful and divisive way (which will happen whenever you take a black-and-white approach and don't qualify your statements). That says says nothing about
In fact, as you seem to be noting, the only time such statements aren't inflammatory is when there is a groupthink and the statement reflects the groupthink. But you can't just assume things would happen the way you think they would happen, and the claim the parent made an assumption!
Communists, they're obviously socialist communists. :-)
You nerds barely understand the technology you crow about so often,
what makes you think you understand politics, or the law or, god forbid, anything philosophical?
3 kids have been mugged, and one girl raped in the last 3 months within 1 block from the collage my girlfriend goes to and lives by.
It Make her and myself feel so much safer knowing that the goverment(s) are spending millions of dollars a year to help these companies keep evil software pirates behind bars.
TruePunk | Games
not even good titles! come on piraters! who's going to download that crap and spread your name around the globe! think about it! and on a side note, people are wondering why we go after these people and not rapists, and the answer is money. There's no revenue in catching a killer. Only spending to keep him in prison. But the fines associated with piracy are immense.
Who is that masked man?
How do you put a price on some software or movie that was 9 times out of 10 *not* going to be purchased by the pirate anyhow? Sure it doesn't make it OK, or free, but how do you price it?
spoken like a true pirate
The distinction makes YOU!
where they said they caught all of the theives, rapists, murderers, and fraud-artists.
oh, they didnt?
What are they thinking?!? This is as petty as a crime gets! Don't they have anything better to do?
DOJ busts spammers for conspiring to find people's email addresses and send email to them
ROCK ON!!! Hang the motherfuckers! Burn them at the stake! It's too bad we can't bust them all!
Corporation infringes on copyright, redistributes modified GPL'ed work without source
Assholes! Somebody take them to court! Sue them for every cent they're worth!
Light a fire for a man and he'll be warm for a day. Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
I am from Malaysia. Look around in Malaysia, Thailand, Phillipines and other South East Asian countries. Piracy in one of those countries would be costing you a hell lot more than 6.5 million. Possibly 600 million. Nobody buys real software for personal use. Nobody buys real DVDs for personal use. Pirated shit is 90% cheaper and the majority dont want to pay the 1500 MYR for adobe photoshop. a Pirated version is 15 MYR. So screw me.
I can't see that terrorists make alot of money from piracy, probably just random warez people doing the "warez" thing(which I think is stupid). But thats besides the fact. They broke the law, was distributing lots of illegal software and were caught. They deserved to be punished and $6.5 million is a reasonable amount, not like the $9 trillion the RIAA sued that kid for.
the problem with throwing the book at them is that they will just scan it and upload to the internet in pdf format.
I believe you misspelled "Department of Profit".
sA.NixX-2006
check your favorite releases site, RiSCiSO hasn't released said movies or games.
something is afoot here
Sure, breach of copyright is illegal. But does that actually make it wrong? Morals make laws, not the other way around - if people never broke laws and did what they thought was right... well, for a start, the USA wouldn't exist as an "Independent" entity... not that I'd mind overly much... ;)
In fact, there's a large argument that piracy acts as a good form of advertising. Most pirated games, for example, don't have working multiplayer. If someone enjoys the singleplayer game, they're more likely to buy a legit copy.
"that these pirates can hold in their ships. What they don't say is if that's per ship or per fleet. I don't know. If you don't stop them, they'll get bigger and faster ships, and who knows how much software they can pirate then!"
Uh, huh Do you think the defendents will get a lighter sentence, if they tell that joke to the judge?
What you and your "word playing" buddies don't understand is that this is no joking matter. All that matters is what the judge says it is. Not the Slashdot definition.
Oh I look forward to the day when the DOJ makes a big arrest on one of the largest collectors of copyrighted movies that happen to be pornography. Those porn companies work hard to produce their pornography and its copyright is more often violated than those of non pornography movies yet the DOJ has not stepped in to punish these copyright violators, some with hundreds of illegally copied porn movies on their computers.
Meanwhile every newsgroup server, run by every isp has millions of dollars in copyrighted material ready to download and the feds do nothing about it.
It makes me sad every time I think about the porn industry getting screwed
mov ax, 4c00h
int 21h
Each defendant was charged with one count of conspiracy to commit copyright infringement, which carries a five-year maximum prison sentence. Fifteen also were charged with copyright infringement, which carries a three-year maximum.
WHAT THE FUCK? The penalty is greater for planning to break the law than for actually breaking it.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
If our good friends were wise enough to use heavy encryption on all links, on all data stores (keys nowhere *near* data; not same machine in obscure dir, not same house, not same city/state, wife/gf/pal/etc == not only no-access, but no-knowledge), and on the encrypted RAM drives (crash/wipe on a dime), no go. If no crypto scheme then yeah, infiltration.
... wipe all; start again.
Prolly infestation and no encryption anyway (totally no RTFA).... got lazy; paid the price. Weep for none of them.
Fucking stupid == caught in whatever you do; encrypt, keep your mouth shut, dist over known chans only; hint of miss
Always.
I totally agree... But, I can see why they are sweating, since bandwidth is only going to get cheaper. Once every Joe Schmo can download a movie from a BitTorrent site at over 1Mbps the idea that release groups will hurt their bottom line will become a reality... Still, DRM is f'in bull...we need to make them realize we want controll over what we purchase!!!
19 out of millions.
Karma: a way in which to silence those with an unpopular viewpoint regardless if the view is correct and just.
now, before you go modding this as flamebait, this is an actual case. the company I work had for its software pirated by several chinese companies. heh. one even copied our website, and then appeared at a trade-show right next to us. We couldnt do a thing. now, extrapolating that to the rest of the industry, i wonder why the various gubmints haven't cracked down on China? The amount of profit-loss companies suffer due to this must be considerable.
btw, i don't expect the situation to last for long. the chinese are intelligent enough to start producing their own damn software.
It's the equivalent of the retail price! I don't care about the other numbers, nor do the RIAA, MPAA and BSA.
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
Sane laws went out the window long ago.
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
My son is one of the 19 being indicted in this absurd case. When FBI raided him (with their guns drawn).....they found him in a hospital bed at his apartment recovering from 9 hour surgery the previous day to repair a broken neck. This 26 yr old "criminal" had spent the past 5 months completely bedridden from his injury and survived it by playing games and watching movies he got from that site. I hope they throw the book at him!! Thank God for the FBI and I for one sleep much better knowing I am safe from these vicious felons and that they spend my tax dollars guarding the modest profits of the motion picture industry and little guys like Bill Gates. "Look out Osama......cuz the FBI is on to your little scheme too" Ironically.....this kid was born on none other than 9/11.....that shoulda prolly been my first clue. Hmmm I wonder if thats where they got the whole terrorist connection theory?? I gotta go throw up now....peace out!
they should be hamstrung and dropped off in a bad part of Falujah for all the %^$#^&@* spam they unleashed. Who here HASN'T been inundated with emails for cut rate software lately?
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
And as you imply with the quote marks around "value", these things get inflated beyond belief in the interest of propaganda. I remember reading a case a few years back where it was claimed that some piraters were busted and that they were in possession of 300 cd writers. Turned out that they had 1/20th that number of writers (i.e. 15 writers), each capable of 20x writing speed.
- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
That's a crappy way to go down. Cheap-ass quality movies and video games that suck anyway. I really think that these guys provide a public service. They don't deserve any jailtime. Maybe probation. These people aren't hard criminals. Go after sick-o's that distribute child porn.
Question: If pirating were to stop, would software prices go down?
Message contained in title and sig.
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
No, I'd agree with you. I get offers in spam email all the time for counterfeit copies of business applications and utilities at extremely low prices, as have many other people I've worked with or known. None of us have ever placed an order though, even if we wanted one of the programs they offered. Same goes for eBay. The fact is, if I'm not clearly buying a *legal* copy of a piece of software, I may as well get my hands on a free copy instead. The only real *value* in buying legitimate software doesn't come from the fact that you now possess a copy of the bits on a piece of media. It comes from the fact that you're able to get customer support and help with problems/issues using the package. You're (theoretically anyway) among the first to be notified when new updates are released, and won't have too much hassle obtaining patches for bugs.
(EG. I like composing music on my computer in my spare time. Some of the best virtual instruments around are software packages written by a company called Native Instruments. Just about everything they've made is available for free download on Usenet, saving you several hundred bucks per software package. BUT - these things are also notorious about requiring updates. Especially in the case of Mac OS X, new OS updates/upgrades often change details of the way Apple supports audio - breaking your program until N.I. releases an update patch. But only licensed users can access a secure portion of their web site where these patches are made available. So - if you use one of their products in any kind of serious way, it's wise just to buy the legit program. Usenet rarely has the update patches passed around for them in a timely manner.)
What's sad is that software crimes have a higher punishable offense then a traffic fine (say, drinking and driving?), where someone could actually die. So what if a couple loses a few dollars for a game, but freaking deal. Quit protecting corporate America and go after people that actually harm other people.
[%] Cingular Ringtones
This group was caught with six copies of "Sim City" and three copies of "Grand Theft Auto", valued at $6.5 million. One member of the group also was carrying a marijuana cigarette with an estimated street value of $1.7 million.
Serving your airship needs since 1995.
Dang. I'm surprised that is so out in the open in this country. Those people should be busted for profiting off these illegal items. Completely different from file-sharing where there is no exchange of money for profit or even a physical product. Fine line, I know, but it is what I believe.
Same thing if I rent a movie and make a copy if I really like it and want to watch it again. I have spent a ton on movies in the theater, purchases, rentals, and a little bit of tie-in merchandise. I've also had a bunch of DVDs get scratched beyond being watchable, and VHS tapes broken. And now they want to disallow the ability to have a copy in case the original gets damaged? F*** them. I will never sell a copied DVD, but I think I've spent enough to justify a personal copy.
--Somewhere there is a village missing an idiot.
I've used tens of thousands of dollars worth of code over the years on a variety of platforms from the Tandy CoCo to my current PC which I simply could not afford to have bought at the time. I don't feel guilty about this in the slightest. Now that I'm grown up, I turned around and now provide a lot of content to the world which has also been borrowed by people who haven't paid. Gee whiz. Life goes on, and the wheels keep spinning and there's still food on my table. How many software makers are starving? I'm serious. --If people are good at what they do, if they produce with passion, then if their work doesn't sell, it has nothing to do with piracy.
I'd also be curious to know. . . How many of those people who today make movies and software haven't also pirated a few dozen software titles when they were kids at home with their C64s, or Amigas or whatever? I didn't know a single computer-owning kid who wasn't also a software pirate. Not one.
What comes around, goes around. That's Karma and everybody pays. It's the credit card system of the Universe.
See, I've also bought a lot of software, and unless you are a giant dork, so have you.
Now that I am an adult with an income, I particularly enjoy buying software from small companies similar to the ones I ripped off as a kid. Not out of guilt or any sense of repayment; Motivation is much more pleasing when it stems from passion rather than pain. --And I genuinely enjoy making on-line purchases and downloading cool and clever bits of code. I understand the creativity and work required to create something, and how much encouragement and joy comes from seeing a sale made. I think it's wonderful to encourage passion and wit and creativity and bravery in those individuals who are willing to buck the system and listen to their souls. It feels great!
Look at "Doom". The first version was free! And does everybody remember what the end result was? Did people lose jobs and starve? Goodness, no! --The excitement generated from creating something new and truly clever creates energy, enough energy to feed and employ thousands of people.
The trick is making sure that you stay connected to the loop. There's nothing wrong with that. Being willing to Give energy freely means nothing if you don't also allow yourself to Take energy freely. The conduit must not be stymied at either end of the flow. "Give and you shall receive," is one of the truly valid, really good sayings in this reality, but it needs one little addendum I think. . , "Give and you shall receive, --but don't be silly about it."
The "Information Wants to be Free" saying is also a good one. It's so very true, but it works in ways a little more clever and mysterious than the laws of direct commerce allow for.
-FL
> You cannot know anything unless you pay for it first- and without a money back guarantee. You
> cannot listen to music, see theater, or learn unless you pay- and without a money back guarantee. If
> I buy a lemon, and it's core is rotten and infested- I can return it. If I buy a music CD and the
> music is complete crap complete with DRM so that I can't actually play it- not only do I not get my
> money back but I don't even own the said piece of crap. It's a rental.
Well, why do you think they call it "the information age"?
Hint: it's not because you can have all the information you need.
It's because they found a way to commercialize it.
That is: Charge for it, tax it, limit its use and dissemination, make it a scarce resource.
The simple answer is "no" - I have not stolen anything. The best that could be said is that I have deprived you of potential profits. Guess what - if Joe Shmuck down the street has your exact same car, and he is selling it for less (let's say you are selling it for blue book, he is selling it for $1.00), has he now "stolen" something from you?
Here is where it gets tricky for intellectual property (IP). With IP, making a copy of something still cannot be said to be depriving the owner of that IP of his original IP. If a copy is made, all such a copy can do is deprive the IP owner of potential profit from that IP. It doesn't deprive him of the IP itself.
This is the problem with IP - we try to treat it as real property, when it is clearly not. IP is thought made real, and just like thought, when it is spoken aloud (or displayed), it becomes something all can share - it becomes a part of culture. This whole issue was debated greatly and heatedly by the founding fathers of the United States when they discussed implementing patents and copyright laws in our Constitution. They could see that there was a right for someone who came up with an idea to profit off of it, for a limited time. This idea is what made it into our Constitution. Unfortunately, then lawyers got involved.
With the rise of corporations become legal entities (and able to hold patents, copyrights, and trademarks), the term "limited time" and "lifetime" became meaningless - at least from a human lifespan standpoint. These corporations became more powerful, and with their lawyers were able to shift the meaning (and pass laws) to pervert the meaning of "a limited time", especially as those limits were approached (Sonny Bono Copyright Act). By extending the meaning of "limited time", the length of time to make profit perverts the idea of IP into something that seems like real property, regardless of the fact that it ultimately is still expressed thought. As the idea that IP is "something else" that is "real" was accepted by the public (American and otherwise - this is a worldwide issue), the issue that copying is some form of stealing started to take hold. Eventually, our laws shifted from where copying IP was a civil offense (punishable with fines) - into one where it is a criminal offense (punishable with fines and jailtime, among other things).
This is world we live in now. A world where the expression of other people's thoughts, without permission, is punishable by jailtime (which, for some unfortunate people, might as well be death). At one time, the ordinary man on the street would have laughed at you if you had told him the "in the future, copying that Metallica tape will land you in jail". Currently, the man on the street laughs if you tell him "in the future, whistling that Metallica tune will land you in jail".
Why is the former plausible and accepted now, but the latter seems absurd today? It shouldn't - it is where we are ultimately headed...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
It didn't take this the first time - when the founding fathers wrote our (US) Constitution, they debated the issue and reasons behind intellectual property quite intensely. Read the Federalist papers if you don't believe me. Some of the FF's didn't even want to define the idea of copyrights, tradmarks, and patents, because they thought such definitions might be perverted and used against the people. I know for a fact that one of the FF's understood how IP was thought made public, there is a quote where he compared it to lighting a candle, and using that candle to light his neighbors, but his stays lit (something akin to that - I think it was Jefferson, or mayby Adams? Can someone back me up?).
Ultimately, they reached a consensus that such things should have a "limited lifetime", and that the "owner" should get a government-backed monopoly to recoup his effort in the creation of said intellectual property, after which time the monopoly status would expire, and the IP would revert to the public domain. They thought this was a good compromise - even so, there were still grumblings that ill would come of it, in the future.
The rise of corporations becoming legal entities able to own IP ultimately proved those FF's who still didn't like the idea correct. So here we are today. A catastrophic event would do nothing to revert this new status quo. It might shake it for a bit, but eventually, history would repeat itself, and this conversation would occur again.
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
Are you jacking on in there? ;-)
Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
Do you know how many movies at 5$ a pop it would take to equal even 1KG of coke at street value?
Get your head out of your ass. The pirates on the street are barely scraping by. They'd have to sell 200 CDs a week just to make rent. And with bittorrent aetc, less people buy them every day.
MOD PARENT er SOMEHOW?
"It's people like these who make it more and more difficult just to use software because of the security features they add. I can't tell you how many times iTunes has spontaniously wiped all the files on it."
First off, iTunes isn't pay-for software --it's free!
Secondly, stop using iTunes on a PC. Third, tell iTunes NOT to manage your Library.
Fourth, iTunes is _far_ from difficult to use. If it is, you're a moron.
No sig for you! Come back one year!