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Paying Subscriptions for MMOs with In-Game Ads?
CokoBWare asks: "Next Generation is reporting that NC Soft, makers of the beloved City of Heroes, Guild Wars, and other MMOs have announced that they will be incorporating in-game advertising for their MMO Auto Assault, using an ad service from Massive Inc. NC Soft has made no indication that they intend to change their subscription model in light of this new announcement. I wanted to know how other people would feel paying $50US for a game, plus approximately $15/month in subscription fees, and in addition be served with in-game advertising as well? Is this a good trend for subscription-based MMO games of the future? Should gamers pay for the privilege of having to be subjected to in-game advertising on a monthly basis?"
If I'm getting the service for free, bring on the ads.
- Just my $0.02, take with a grain of salt, your mileage may vary.
It was only a matter of time before advertising and subscription fees both hit you in a package. Cable has been doing this for years with little justification in my eyes. One of the major points in signing up for cable was to get rid of the advertisments, but that idea has been tossed by most cable networks decades ago. Now they are doing the same thing with online stuff. I hope they finally bump into a wall here. I hope this greedy sales model falls right on its face. It's one thing to get us to accept advertising for free services, but when you are paying, and you are online. It just feels so slimy and unnecessary. I hope this project falls flat on its face and serves as a lesson that online, people don't want to pay to be marketed to like everywhere else where they had no choice.
Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
Unfortunately it's going to be like Cable TV: you pay for cable, but you get the commercials too.
Maybe this can go another way though, and people will abandon the games that want to double-dip. We can only hope.
I don't mind blowing up, burning down or melting sideways the billboards inside the gaming world. Heck, I wouldn't mind slashing and dicing the local authorities if they try to arrest me for cleaning up the environment. Whatever makes the game fun. :)
Ya know what I'd like to say "Bullshit, I'm never gonna pay for a game that has advertisements". But the reality is thats not going to make a difference. Just look at TV. Most people pay around 50$ (or more) a month, and there are 15mn+ of commercials per hour.
At least with in game ads they aren't stopping you from playing. You can just walk right past them. And if this helps the companies put out better games cause they can afford to spend more time in devel becaues they are making X more per month per person - well great. (And Frankly, I'd rather see adverts than pay more than 15$ a month per MMOG)
snowulf.com
Guild wars is free to play per month, unlike EQ2, WOW, etc.
Death by snoo-snoo!
This completely depends on the game. In some games, in some context, ads could almost add to the atmosphere. I'm not too familiar with this game in particular, but if they placed the ads on billboards in games so that you would see them as you drive by, I wouldn't mind. Real city streets have them, so why can't the MMO? Now, if they're too obtrusive, the company should tone them down. Especially since people are already paying good money to play.
On the other hand, if I see one advertisment in Guild Wars...
Basically, these companies are looking for as many sources of revenue as possible. Advertising is just another of them.
There are loads of examples of things the user pays for that have advertising: TV, magazines, movie theatres, movies themselves, etc. You almost can't escape it nowadays.
Now, ask me if I think paying $15/mo for an on-line game makes any sense and I'll tell you NO -- but I'm not the entire gaming market. =)
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
If the ads are just banners on loading screens, OOC Chat, etc, I have no problem with it.
If they are putting up billboards in the gameworld, I have a HUGE FUCKING PROBLEM with it.
Shiny. Let's be bad guys.
Seriously, why the outrage? You see ads while driving IRL, so why wouldn't you in-game?
<jedi> There is something funny here. You laugh. </jedi>
I'm not the hard core gamer I used to be, but I probably play 4-8 hours a week. So you figure $15/month = $180/year = $3.46/week = $0.43 to $0.86 per hour of entertainment.
Compared to a Movie, I paid $8.25 to see Underworld 2. Run time 106 minutes, but you could theoretical count the travel time and previews as "entertainment" so let's call it a 3 hour event. That puts the cost at $2.75/hour.
For me, $15 is a drop in the bucket. I would prefer to not have adds (specifically since I play high fantasy games usually) but in some games (the NFS series for instance) Ads can be put in the game seamlessly in a way that does not break immersion.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
Prediction: 90% of respondants will react to the concept of in-game ads as if someone was offering to attach live leeches to their eyeballs. Brave proclomations will be made about how respondant will never, ever, EVER pay for a game that has in-game advertising, no matter what.
Prediction: If the game is good, same people will buy it and play it, complaining bitterly the whole time. Until and unless the advertisments get so intrusive that they actually interfere with gameplay, people will put up with them to get their gaming fix.
It's the land of the brave, and the home of the free
Where the less you know, the better off you'll be.
Just curious.
I pay for cable television only to have to watch ads on channels like FX, Discovery, etc... Granted, the finance structure is totally different there, but my point is that the General Public is just so used to seeing ads everywhere, even in content they pay for, that my guess is that no one will even notice.
Games are a way to get away from real life.
I encrypt all my files with Double XOR Encryption!
I see nowhere in the announcement that NC Soft plans to charge a monthly fee in adition to having advertisements.
Seeing how they *already* have a very popular MMORPG without a monthly fee (Guild Wars), I don't think it is a stretch to think this one won't either.
If the publishers and content produces for MMO's are going to stick advertising in games, then I have no problem continuing to pay my monthly fee so long as the revenue from said advertising is used to improve the game im playing. Less downtime should be a top priority for both sides because downtime = less advert money. More content in general would also be nice. More places for that advertising to go i figure. You have to remember that disneyland is like the real life equivelent for an MMO, and in addition to your entrance fee, many of the E Ticket rides have corporate sponsors, which is totaly cool because it means the ride is better than it otherwise would have been. As long as the big wigs at the publishing companies arent just fattening their wallets, im cool with in-game advertising.
People pay $5000US for a hi-def set, plus approximately $80/month for HiDef satellite and/or cable service, and are served ads without complaint.
No publisher with any sort of standards would allow the game setting to be destroyed this way. I think we'll see the games with low subscribership succumb to this trend, and lose even more players as a result. Its one thing for Anarchy Online, City of Heroes or a game with a futuristic setting to use in-game ads (since ads exist within those worlds thematically), but a Volvo ad in a dungeon?
Ambience, mood, storyline, graphical quality and believability are hugely important in a MMORPG. All I can say is, if my Lvl 20 Monk/Ranger comes across a "Lower Your Mortgage"
ad in the depths of Hell, I'm never playing Guild Wars again.
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
One thing amazed me about the US when I lived there is how badly you are bombarded with adverts. Not just TV but everywhere. Really its like having a fast computer. You don't realise it until you start to try to use a slow one.
t ure/entry/massive_ruins_planetside/
I found amazing, and very annoying. But for everyone else because they grew up with it they more or less blocked it out. Advertising companies know this, which is why adverts are becoming more and more intrusive. Take a look at this site.. http://www.womma.org/wombat/agenda.htm
It will give you an idea of how intrusive they actually get. Whats intresting in that site is that NCSofts Auto-Assault has used these marketing companies for viral/Gurrilla/astro-turfing. So having them put adverts into the game is just an extension of this to be honest.
As for the OP question. I wouldn't play it. I'd quit. If I am paying a subscription why the heck should I be paying to be spammed with adverts. Don't talk to me about it. Think it helps? Guess you have never seen "Deuce Bigalow: European gigalo" pictures in planetside.
http://www.secretlair.com/index.php?/clickablecul
which incidently was hacked to stop adverts spawning in game (just basically edited the hosts file).
In-game ads could work in a subscription-based game model, if done right.
The most important thing advertisers (and game companies) have to accept is the fact that their ads will only be appropriate in contemporary-themed game environments. City of Heroes and Enter the Matrix fit this description, and not much else does. They try shoehorning an ad for potato chips (or anything else, for that matter) in a game with a fantasy/medieval setting. The reaction from subscribers will be instant and negative.
Interstitials might work ("While the game loads, check out this tennis shoe!"), but they must be extremely low-bandwidth. Like a simple graphic. They cannot add to irritating stream of data coming and going between the game's client and server because people complain enough about lag and latency already; ads would earn a game company a blue ribbon in the "Fastest Drop in Subscriptions" contest, hands-down. Video or flash are absolutely detested on the Web, and their acceptance in a paid-for game is far below any means of measurement.
As long as the ads are unobtrusive and fit the style and content of the game I'm fine. For instance, racing games advertising cars or tires, no problem. If there was an advertisment in WoW for hand lotion, however, I would be less than pleased.
Oh, and I think everyone would agree with me. If there's ads in the game, I best be getting some sort of substantial discount. Say, at least 5 bucks a month. Or maybe the game for free as a good will gesture.
This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
I really always assumed that we would begin to see both advertisement and sorts of sponsorships in online gaming. It might not always work in the most thematic way, but this is not really different than product placement for example.
The Ancient Order of Coca-cola have defeated the Mercedes Barbarians to bring the glory of the gods to America.
...as long as it is
a) contextually correct
b) not overy distracting/annoying
If they replace Morning Glory Dew with Mountain Dew in WoW you're gonna see one angry dwarf.
.
"What is the answer?" (Silence) "In that case, what is the question?" --Gertrude Stein
I ask for this from Game Publishers: 1) Choice: Let me pick to payless and see ads, or pay more and not see them (bonus, make fake ads that are cool). Better yet for cheapo's let me fill out a survey and give me less but better ads for me (or less money). 2) Disclosure: Tell me your going to put ads in your game, and what they are, and will not be.
Seriously, why the outrage? You see ads while driving IRL, so why wouldn't you in-game?
So, vice-versa, I get to beat prostitutes with golf-clubs and kill cops in-game, so does that mean I can do so in real life?
"What is the answer?" (Silence) "In that case, what is the question?" --Gertrude Stein
Planetside already has that. They're not overly invasive, but they are noticeable in areas that people frequent (it's not like people's tanks have billboards on the side of them, a la nascar).
It's also very very easy to get rid of the ads. Apparently you just enter a line in your lmhosts file that tells the game to redirect all requests to the Massive Inc servers to some black hole. No more ads.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
As long as the in game advertising is on the side of destructable buildings, I'm all for it.
Take that, Wal-Mart!
KAPOW!
You can get 15 minutes of fame, but you can go down in history for infamy.
Thanks for purchasing Product X! Please take the time to let is know where you heard about our product:
1. Newspaper
2. Billboard
3. Gaming Magazine
4. Farming Blue/Purple Items in Molten Core.
Thanks for your input.
"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live." - Mark Twain, "Taming the Bicycle"
Cable TV has many channels that are commercial-free
Cable TV 'packages' many products i.e Channels to provide a service. Some of the channels are nothing but commercials (HSN, QVC etc) some are Movies/Specials only (MAX, Encore, Showtime, HBO)
a better comparison would be a single sporting event. Nascar, NFL game, Olympics, whatever.
Ads are part of our culture. Personally, if they are unintrusive (they do not hinder the gameplay) I would not mind
in fact, I would rather see a Drink machine in a game say Pepsi or Coca-Cola than some goofy "Spritza-Cola" or "Popsci". having actual Ads presented in a realistic way will add to the immersion.
Well, you CAN. It's a matter of risk vs reward though. You might not like your 'reward' ;-)
Think about it -- you could see ads for McDonald's or Coke in World of Warcraft. Maybe they could make them relevant to the context -- "Eat a Big Mac for your ORC sized appetite".
I have two fundamental problems with in-game advertising.
The first is immersion. If I'm playing a game set in a post-apocalyptic world why am I seeing ads, and worse yet, why are they for products that don't exist in this world.
The second problem is specific to subscription based games. If I'm paying a monthly fee why should I be subjected to advertising? I don't even think I should see advertising in a game I've spent $50 for. Corporate greed knows no bounds and I expect in-game advertising to grow increasingly obnoxious and obtrusive.
I have a few other problems with this form of advertising, one of the largest being the general lack of quality for these ads. It's like ad banners, nearly all of which are complete and utter garbage. The stuff I've seen from screenshots of other games looks awful. I don't expect this to improve and I'm sure we'll see poorly placed ads. Like posters for Subway sandwiches in terrorist hideouts.
Now, advertising fits a bit more neatly into a world like that in City of Heroes; it's a contemporary city based in the United States. But again, the general idea of advertising in games rubs me the wrong way.
It's far more enjoyable and faithful to the game world to see the fake ads the designers have created. The moment I see an ad for a real-life product I'm no longer based in the game, I'm thinking about my life outside the game.
To put it simply, I think in-game advertising is lame. It's companies tried to grab every last penny from consumers. But too many consumers seem to think this is okay which means that its going to be forced on us all whether we like it or not. Consumers are far too accepting of being charged for nonsense and there aren't enough people willing to organize to oppose anything.
Anyone ever played Star Wars Galaxies? The whole thing is an advertisement for the Star Wars movies, toys, posters, etc. The same can be said for the upcoming DC Comics superhero MMORPG, the upcoming Star Trek MMORPG and a few others.
These are the same as playing a game where your character is a coca cola bottle and you're trying to save the vending machine that is under attack by "generic" can mobs.
The bar is set fairly high, and keeps getting higher. Ok so time was your competition was Everquest, a game that felt like a job run by people who seemed to actively go out of their way to screw their customers. Didn't need a big leg up there. However now there's World of Warcraft. It's a fun game, a REALLY fun game. Certianly the best of the five I've tried and the only one to hold my attention for over a year. Sales figures seem to back that up, with 5 million subscribers and rising.
Ok so people who need their MMORPG fix can (and do) go there, you game has to offer something different or better, if you don't, they'll ignore you for the most part. Thus if you decide that a fee plus intrusive ads is the way to go, gamers will tell you to fuck off, they have something better already.
The reason I'm very anti in-game ads is because I know how stupid advertisers are when it comes to computers. They seem to think that ads need to be extremely in your face, noisy, and interactive. If they aren't getting your full attention for an extended period with lots of click throughs, well they must be failing. I mean shit, look at the previlance of not just popups, but take-over-your-browser types of Flash ads. The web is a non-linerar medium and the closest thing would be a newspaper, where you can skip around as you want, yet they insist that's not good enough, their ads have to be in your face.
See I could go for a game with well integrated ads, I even think they could enhance the experience. For example you walk by a TV and instead of displaying some 3 screen loop with babble sounding audio, it has downloaded some new ads and plays them. Would feel nice and realistic, and integrate in to your experience well.
However that's not how it will go, I'm afraid. The advertisers would bitch since people could just ignore the ads and look at other things (I'll never understand why that's not a problem with real billboards and such, just ocmptuer ads). What they'll want is forced ads on loading screens. So you zone in to a place and it starts loading, but instead of a loading screen you get an ad that talks to you, wants you to click thigns, etc. You computer finishes all it's work in 5 seconds but you spend 20 more being bombarded by an ad before you can play.
Thanks, but no.
Do you have cable tv or a satellite dish? How much per month do you pay for that? I think if its done tastefully it won't be bad. A tall building with a billboard of a real product may add realism to the game.
Cable TV
As someone else pointed out, if you are going past a pop machine, it makes more sense to see say Coke or Pepsi, instead of some made-up cola name. Same with billboards. There are ads in Burnout Revenge. They add to the environment, and I really don't mind them. On the flip side, you have SWAT 4. It seems that there are posters about every 10 feet advetising SOMETHING. Last week, it was The Hills have Eyes, this week it is the History Channel show with Shatner's head plastered everywhere. I don't mind advertising... as long as I get a break in the price. I am NOT seeing that happen. Hell, in SWAT 4, it was perfectly fine, until they patched it to force streaming ads.
I have absolutely no problem with the *concept* of having something for free with advertising included in it (I just probably won't use it) but I definitely will NOT pay for something that has advertising included - for this reason I don't have cable TV, I've complained about some movies I've seen at the cinema where product placement has been too excessive & I buy no designer clothing that has a corporate logo on it.
Advertising is NOT our culture, it's about directing and manipulating our culture for the pure reason of making money. When they can survey a few hundred kids & have all of them recognise an image of Ronald McDonald but a far lesser percentage recognise an image of Jesus Christ, I think that illustrates exactly where our "culture" is actually going. And no, I'm not Christian or religious either - if marketing and ad men are the most dangerous threat to society, then those people who need ten commandments that can be summed up in the phrase "Just be nice to everyone" come a close second...
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
If ads take away from the game (i.e. I have to stop and watch one) then I won't have it and I'll simply play a different game. If on the other hand they're incorporated into the game in a manner so as to add realism be they real product billboards or something even more agressive alla from the movie Minority Report set in a SciFi genre then I'm all for it.
In the end, it's all about game quality and if the ad can help set mood or tone and add to the emersion factor I'd love it. I feel like in this case I'm getting something from it too. If on the other hand it's disruptive and I have to work to get past the add to get to the emersion the screw it...I'll find a better game with better content.
I suspect game companies will go to far toward the ad model first and ruin a few games but I'm hopeful they'll eventually come back to the middle where the ads actually add to the gaming experience.
Billboards in the Matrix Online had both fake and real ads on them from launch. It actually added to the realism of the game, as it wasn't just fake ads. (Made it feel more real)
I quit Matrix because SOE (Sony Online) bought it, and started adding in everquest abilities to the game model, a lot like when they brought the everquest developers over to Star Wars Galaxies and started destroying because they didn't 'get the difference'.
But until then it was kind of cool to see new movie billboards or alienware ads for a new model, etc.
It can make the world more real, but if it fits in the context. I wouldn't expect to see a Pepsi Machine In WoW or a Billboard for a new movie in WoW, it has to fit the game and not break it. Matrix it worked because it was mimmicking a real city.
And if it adds revenue they use to make the game better and add content and expand the game, I'm for it...
Adbusters announced today that they WTS [Culturejammer Stickers]x40, 25g, on top of mailbox in Org.
"Will pay a mage for conjured Mountain Dew"
"WTS [Goodyear Boots of the Eagle]"
"Need a McHealer for BRD"
"Need an Alchemist to make me some Pepsi pots. I have the [Radioactive Goop]"
My goodness, this is terrible! The market is getting to critical mass, and suppliers are trying to see how much (more) money it is able to bear? Say it ain't so!
Of course, when CDs got too expensive, some geek wrote Napster. Maybe this assault on gamers' aesthetics will prompt a few creative ones to come up with a free alternative, or some enlightened company will roll out an ad-less alternative - and use the asence of ads as a selling point.
Sheesh! If the ads are so bad, don't play the game. If you're addicted to the game, you'll absorb the ads like a crack-whore who comes to terms with servicing the Johns for the drug.
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
It seems that it is a nice model, since many things we use today are ad powered. But where's the limit? How much more can the budget for ads grow? Are the industries willing to spend that much money on ads? Not that games cannot be run with money from ads, but this solution is being adopted for paying for everything.
Just imagine this. 2 players in a duel. In the middle of the match, you hear a voice
... 1.."
*Players freeze*
"AND NOW, a message from our sponsor. Tired of a small dick? Get Viagra NOW!........ back to fight in 3... 2
I can't wait to see mobs looking like nascar drivers, covered in ads....cheap gold! www.china.com.
The Matrix Online started with ads just over a year ago. At first a few bilboards of movies like Constantine, and Batman:Begins. Then onto computer products, real-world magazines, and car ads.
Sony-Entertainment bought them from AOL-Time-Waner a year ago, and that's when I quit too, so I can't tell you what they are doing today.
I have two comments for this one:
:)
First, how is this really different from say, paying $40 for two people to go to the movies that
are subjected to all kinds of crappy adverts as they are waiting for the movie
(or even previews, which include more crappy ads) to start?
Second, I don't think seeing an ad in a game is going to make me buy the product.
As said before, it's better to see a pop machine with coke or pepsi on it, rather than "cola!"
but it wouldn't make me say "hmm, I see a coke ad.. I need to run to the store right now and buy
some!" Have we really come to the point that consumers will make purchases of products based on
an ad in a game? Maybe I'm not in that reality
Actually here in Fairfax, Virginia ... we don't have the displeasure of being bombarded by huge billboards struggling to steal your attention while you're trying to do something else: pay attention to the road.
... those were over the top.
They have been outlawed.
Can't say I miss them! Not that I ever really glanced at them anyways. But some of the ones in the bay area, with flashing lights
This is an example of how the people CAN vote to keep this sort of crap from happening and actually win.
Movie theaters do the same thing, you pay $8 for the movie and if you get there before the show you end up watching 25 minutes commercials, not to mention all the product shots inside said movie.
Maybe for you - don't cast your opinion on all gamers. I read books too, but not to get away from real life. I play games for the same reason I read books - either as a mental exercise (Ikaruga, Starcraft) or for an amazing story (Kingdom Hearts, FFVII, Starcraft) and sometimes both (Starcraft).
Adverts would be intuitive in a game like GTA, which is meant to be realistic, and Full Auto makes sense too. As long as they're not intrusive, and they stay to realistically-placed billboards, vending machines, a few posters and loading screens, I'm happy. Besides, a McDonalds poster might remind me that I need to eat when playing.
Your statement is not correct. Cable companies like Comcast *DO* pay networks for their content, using your cable fees. This is why cable channels oppose ala carte cable. I don't like the idea of MMOs putting ads in their games, but it really would be pretty analogous to how cable TV works.
I pay to play these games in order to escape reality where someone is always trying to sell me something, be it laundry detergent or ideology. I don't watch television or listen to radio anymore for these reasons. I'm just tired of being sold to. If game companies are going to accept advertising money, then they better get enough to subsidize them completely because they'll either be getting advertising dollars or mine, but not both. I don't care if having a Coca Cola machine in my GTA would make it realistic, if I'm paying for it I don't want it in there. Period.
Why are people so adverse to advertising in a game?
;-)
I pay a subscription to my satellite TV provider, yet I still get ads on the channels I like to watch. Even in the middle of sporting events. I had to pay for my decoder box and pay my monthly subscription.
Advertising in a game is acceptable to me as long as it is within context. I don't want to see an ad for CocaCola(tm) in the middle of Droknar's Forge in Guild Wars. Or an ad for Gillete Mach3 over the door to the Auction House of Orgrimmar in World of Warcraft.
Running a MMORPG, or any persistant online gaming service, is not cheap. Why shouldn't companies offer advertising to help offset that cost? Especially if its within context. It allows them to ensure that the cost to the consumer is affordable.
I don't see people stop playing Anarchy Online because of the ads. In fact, by allowing advertising, Anarchy Online got a massive influx of players because the advertising allowed the basic game to be offered freely. This extended the life of a game that was starting to slow down.
Also consider that games like Gran Turismo, Project Gotham Racing and many other racing games have had non-dynamic ingame advertising for a long time. Billboards all around the race tracks that have fake or paid for static ads. Doesn't stop you playing the game does it? So what if the fake ads on the ingame billboards now become real advertising space?
Get used to it. Life is expensive. If advertising helps keep a game affordable, is that any worse than advertising keeping my subscription to a channel affordable? You either like the service or you don't.
If you don't want the advertising, offer to pay a premium for ad-free service. But consider how much that premium would have to be to offset the advertising.
Is this a good trend for subscription-based MMO games of the future? Should gamers pay for the privilege of having to be subjected to in-game advertising on a monthly basis?
Seriously, what kind of stupid questions are these? I smell flamebait.
As long as it is thematic and unobtrusive I really wouldn't mind. Like for example in games where there is "zoning". You're already showing me a splash screen that is a still shot and boring, go ahead and zap a quick ad through there... at least it will give me something else to stare at for 10-20 seconds.
Thematic is fine as well, if it's city of heroes or something and there's a soda machine, why not let pepsi or coke put their logos on it? Why can't an in-game gas station be a Sunoco?
I wanted to know how other people would feel paying $50US for a game, plus approximately $15/month in subscription fees, and in addition be served with in-game advertising as well?
Hey cockmonkey, I'm glad you asked! Here's what I think:
I betad auto-assault for the first time this weekend and was very impressed with what I saw. As of yesterday I had full intention of pre-ordering AA and playing it as soon as possible.
AFter reading this article I now have zero intention of ordering AA. I won't pay $15/month (an already high figure for MMOGs) to see ads in-game. I'll just find another game. This is probably the stupidist idea I've seen for an MMOG in a long time. And it's not just the money, or the insult to the intelligence of the players, it's the fact that you guys are willing to sacrifice the game's immersion by crap flooding modern advertisements onto a futuristic and post-apocalyptic landscape. It's nauseating to see you guys patting yourselves on the back over this idea, as if you just invented something of merit.
If we could play AA for free by voluntarily opting into this advertisement program then maybe you would have something. As usual you money grubbing marketers/advertisers/accountants are polluting a promising game into obsolescence. Absolutely retarded idea. I hope Net Devil goes bankrupt and burns for caving to this ass backwards idea.
Very Sincerely,
One of the many customers you just lost.
The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
First off, NC Soft doesn't really make that cool of games. I don't know anyone who plays Guild Wars longterm. City of Heros is okay game...not really. And Lineage 2 is the hardest MMO time sinker in the world. The game is near dead and so is there other games.
Personally this is a last ditch effort for them to save what they have. And if they knew the true heart and mind of gamers they would know this will near kill their community. When will a company create a game for gamers and keep their paying customers in mind. And you know what if you have millions of people paying $15 bucks a pop each month then you have plenty of money for development. Considering the average developer doesn't make much more than 70K a year and is paid on sallary.
They don't need any more money. Trust me this was the stupid thing that NC Soft could have done... especially since Auto Assault just went into open Beta and when people get news of this they are going to be like "Screw that! I'm not paying to look at advertisements!" Besides that takes away from the atmostphere. Take for instance World of Warcraft or Everquest 1 or 2, you play those games to be in that world. Not to be in ours.
Tell me what you think?
Now that I'm a paying subscriber at Anarchy Online, and the billboards are all for fictional products. The free accounts (a great deal on a cool game!) have ads on billboards in the cities and abandoned subways and such, but never in dungeons/caves/missions where it would seem out of place.
It didn't bother me when they were there when I started playing, since I wasn't paying for it, but now that they're gone I think I might actually miss them. Weird, since I hate ads in every other form--TV, spam, mail, radio, random people on the street trying to sell me something, people going door to door, telephone, etc. Makes me wanna wring their neck for interrupting whatever I was doing (even if I was doing nothing). But in the game it just doesn't bother me. Run past a billboard, and the sound fades in and out, realistic like. If it's something interesting, stop and watch. It got me to stick around after Gilmore Girls on Tuesday night to watch the first couple of episodes of Supernatural. If the show hadn't sucked, I would have continued to tune in. But the ads in the game probably convinced me to watch once or twice.
An onslaught of ads in the game did not, however, convince me to go see Deuce Bigelow: European Gigolo. There are limits to the technology.
It all depends on how they go about it, if its just billboards then I really don't care and will happily ignore them but popups really annoy me. Then again the worst they could do is have breaks every 10mins.
Or you could just put games in advertisements.
Am no fek Buddhist, but this is enlightenment.
That's just odd. NCSoft publishes City of Heroes, which is set in a city which is analagous to a modern day metropolis. (Or megopolis - think perhaps NYC times five)
Ads in such a game would probably ADD to the experience. I wouldn't want them jacking up my performance or anything, but seeing a Pizza Hut or a Coke banner? Seems like verisimilitude, and if it lets them make more money, add more content, or whatever, more power to them.
Ads in a game like Auto Assault seem crazy for the most part. It's a postapocalyptic setting with mutants, humans, and others battling for scarce resources and it looks like the whole theme is borrowed heavily from Mad Max. What place does Coke have in the mutant-filled future? Little or none, I'd imagine. Maybe some armor plated missile-wielding FedEx battle trucks would be a cute touch, but by and large, the ads have no place. Obviously a fantasy scenario is the worst case. Modern product placement simply has no place there.
Then again, you never know - it's not like a game like WoW offers a lot in the way of immersement when 75% of the players can't type normal sentences and you have to translate 'w r @ deadmines pling kk u wnt team?' After that, does it really matter if you see an ad?
"Seriously, why the outrage? You see ads while driving IRL, so why wouldn't you in-game?" Who seriously likes to see that TRASH on the side of the interstates? Answer.. only marketing types. Aside from the Corporate GREED putting advertisments in games is BAD. why? it defeats the illusion of disbelief. Some of argue that it could make the game more realistic. WE ARE PLAYING GAMES TO ESCAPE REALITY. face it, reality is not fun. if we wanted to get realistic then my gun would jam in counterstrike, ammo would be defective. my character would get a sprang ankle and be unable to move. your cars would run out of gas in GTA. so who wants to play a game and see @$*# like burger king commercials? much like hollywood has gone down the Kra-pper , video games are going the same exact thing. Corporate suits that have no interest, talent, or desire to make a good game are put in charge. The only thing that matters to them is profits. more profits = more stock options = more money. But what it really comes down to is this. Now is the time to make a stand and you only vote is what matters to them most. Hard Cold Cash. If we ban games that market this crud we might.. might nip this in the butt b4 it gets out of control. if not, then prepare to undure Britney Spears in your counterstrike 3 game or Backstreet boys "singing" in Everquest 3. Personally i REFUSE i but ANY game with that crud in it. thats my rave. hopefully this will die and we wont have to fondly remember back to the good old days when games were not filled to the brim w/ advertisements.
http://www.anarchy-online.com/ There is a free version and I pay $10 a month for all the add-ons. If you pay to play then you can turn off the in-game ads for real life products. There are however a couple ads for orgs and fictional in-game products. I heard it really sucked when first released, and it still has some bugs, but it is a lot of fun for those who want a simple experience and those that want something incredibly immense. On a plus side there are players from all over the globe, which is fun for me because I rarely have a chance to converse directly with people from France, Russia, or China.
No one cares what your captcha was
Houston TX, USA
Since the NDA has been lifted I may say that the game is not good. Despite ads or no ads I won't be shelling out my hard earned $15 / month to play it anyways. The game lacks depth, character and substance such as can be found in WoW.(Although after reading I may get banned for using my Logitech G15 keyboard I may to form a new opinion on how much I like WoW,)
I wanted so much to love this game, being a fan of Car Wars and all. Here is something I found at Gamespot ont he subject of ads...
I refuse to even play free games with in-game advertising. You can't put a price on immersion. In-game ads might be perfectly find if they were properly shaded and placed into the game by artists, so they actually at least looked like in-game ads, rather than these uberbright jarring portals to another world. To me it makes the difference between someone holding a coke can in a movie and just compositing a can of coke onto a table with no regard for making it look like part of the world. It'd be incredibly jarring.
this is the bunch of dirt bags that sign up companys. email the address and let them know what you think. adsales@massiveincorporated.com and investor relations. This is the most important address. just tell them you REFUSE to buy any game w/ in game advertising. invest@ncsoft.net
Becuase you generally don't drive to have fun.
Would you kindly mod me +1 insightful?
Um. The game Auto Assault is a post-apocalyptic wasteland car game similar to "Road Warrior" but with mutants and advanced technology. Kind of like Road Warrior meets the old Gamma World role playing game.
So an ad saying "Go see Deuce Bigalow opening in theatres this weekend" would be really out of place. Maybe, just maybe if they integrated the ads as destroyed remnants of the former civilization it would fit. Maybe.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
New Ads in WoW! Coca Cola: Restores 560 Mana over 21 sec. Must remain seated while drinking
sig here
Of course, I am sure spamming will still be against the EULA, but it sure will be hypocritical.
Is there a way to port block the ad server? Or 127.0.0.1 the adserver's name in %WINDIR%\system32\drivers\etc\hosts?
-- Argel
A lot of people think that because they pay for something, there should be no advertisements. The fact is, the advertisements do help to offset the cost of bringing you the game. How much more would you be willing to pay for a game with no advertisements?
If you need to be reminded to eat while playing games, I wouldn't worry about in-game advertising taking time out of your life, because you probably don't have one.
Guild Wars? What fees?
I paid for a subscription to classmates.com and still get served with tons of the most annoying adverts ever when logged in. That's just wrong. I cancelled my subscription so it won't renew next year.
This is no different. If I'm paying, then I should not be bothered with in game advertisements if they are intrusive. For example, seeing a Coke billboard or poster isn't annoying, so much, as its modeling reality. However, when the adverts become annoying or too much, or somehow, the game goes out of its way to impose the advert on you is a whole different story. Won't get my money, because they don't need it, not when advertisers are paying their way.
Thanks,
Leabre
Here's the deal. As much as i think seeing ads in game is rediculous and im sure 90% of us feel the same way, it doesnt make a lick of difference. Reason being is that no one will quit playing with the ads in game. Just like we dont bother to vote, anyone who thinks of not playing due to ads realizes that their actions will be the extreme minority, so why bother. I said i'd never pay to play a game online... Well, I did, do, and probably always will.
Check out the response from the development company (NetDevil) on how the ads will be integrated into the game.
Of particular interest:
"One thing I always felt was missing from AA was the remnants of modern real world culture, which if you take a look around any urban center, is oversaturated with ads, billboards, posters, etc. It's a fact of the landscape. For example, why wouldn't you find an old rusted out Coke can in this world?"
"We get total artistic control over which ads go into the game so nothing would ever go into the game that does anything but add to the fact that this is a post apocalyptic earth. Each ad is custom made by Massive to add to our worlds existing look and feel. All the ads would be from old earth companies no longer around, not modern ads as if the companies existed on earth during the time period of Auto Assault."
They have a valid point. Real world brands shown destroyed and decrepit in a post-apocalyptic environment could add a sense
of realism to the game. The real question is implementation. If they get one ad buyer and all you see if Nike ads, it really won't matter how well they are integrated into the environment.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
Advertising isn't just about making you want the product now...it's there to create brand-preference/trust/loyalty.
I remember back in the early 80's when cable television debuted. The premise was, pay a subscription, bypass the networks and get advertising free entertainment... all of which lasted about 1 year. My magazines have advertising, my newspaper (I don't have) has advertising, and my cable TV has advertising. Why would ANYONE think an advertising revenue source would be ignored by a company who's sole purpose is to make money for it's stockholders.
how could a player possibly get hooked onto a game if at every turn in a medieval styled world he see's a add for pepsi, or a popup box in the left hand corner...
if it doesnt interfere with the display of the game, i dont care. but the second i get annoying popups, adds in games for products that just shouldnt exist in game i wont play it.
the whole point of video games is to escape reality for a bit, to have fun, not to have yet another avenue for those damn advertisment "gurus" to figure out how to wreck yet another thing with product placement. i want to know who these morons are who sit down at desks and say "HEY ive got it! KIDS WILL WANT to see ads while playing their favorite game!" and the executive just sitting up and going "you sir have a raise!"
i mean come on. if these people had it their way, the sky itself would not be blue, and we'd just have advertisment billboards instead of a sky.
why do they think that shoving something in my face is going to make me buy it? is there a portion of people that are that f**king stupid that actually buy stuff after having it shoved in your face 24/7?? oh wait. the same people that buy stuff from spyware and spam companies.
good point. spamming chat channels for ingame items is already a problem in a few games. how about equal time? how about people who pay 15$ a month to be in the game world get free ad time for their in game clans, items, services? will the devs tell us that "no, the advertisers are more important to their bottom line than the players?" i really like auto assault and i can see the ads would fit fine on the destructable billboards or sides of some the buildings. nothing amiss with say a soda vending machine that can be knocked over and maybe salvage some broken glass from it(btw, the game seriously needs more broken glass. having a hard time finding this and it is a crafting component). i gotta think of a way to empower my eyeballs. how about a buy my eyeball time. skip the middle man pay me 2-3 cents a click to look at your ad.
It's entirely expected that advertisements will appear everywhere and anywhere they can. There is no reason for them not to. People are not dissuaded from using a product because of advertisements, even on paid media. They have appeared cable TV, movies (before and during), DVD's, video games... they'll hit XM soon enough.
What surprises me is the sizable percentage of people who saying "well, if it results in more money to develop better games, that's fine". What?!? Since when has advertising dollars been spent to increase the quality of any media attached to it? I feel like I'm living in a different world from these people. Or perhaps they're just folks who have been brainwashed that capitalism is the end-all-be-all and making a buck can never be wrong. Whatever the case, I am 100% sure that advertising will become a part of video games, and that the resulting revenue will have no positive effect on the quality. If anything, it will be detrimental since the motivation of the game company will become "get ads in front of as many impressionable eyeballs as possible" rather than "make a fun game that people will want to pay to play".
Cheers.
Did you know there are sixteen minutes of commercials in EVERY HOUR OF TELEVISION?
Why do people even watch the goddamned thing? We don't call it the "idiot box" for nothing. I stopped watching TV years ago and have not regretted it once.
Wow, NCSoft just made up my mind for me. Auto Assault looked like it might be a pretty good game so I sighed up for the beta, downloaded it, patched it all up and was presented an activation key to play this weekend.
Since this article came out I have uninstalled it completely, deleted every single email I have ever received from NCSoft and vow never to play any of their games until they change their stance. If I'm paying for a service there better not be ads no matter how "unintrusive" they may be.
I hope NCSoft reads these comments, I am a heavy gamer who subscribes to multiple MMOGs and they have just lost any chance to gain my money.
supply and demand, and plain old darwinism is really what this is all about aint it.. so what if a company covers it's costs via X% fees and 100-X% ads. replay "so what"? If you're thinking that they're just uber'netting those ad dollars .. even so if they are, they're subject for termination cause someone else can do the same cheaper or better for the same.
darwin never goes out of style. have faith dammit!
you pay for cable and still have to watch ads
Consumers in general appear have no ability to restrain themselves from spending money on something they want. Game developers/publishers have realised this which is why we're seeing more ads in more and more games. Sometimes they're subtle (posters/billboards in racing games) which I don't have a problem with.
I strongly believe that Blizzard could pump World of Warcraft full of ads and it'd have barely any effect on player numbers because everyone is so hopelessly addicted to it. They're locked in to the game and, from what I can tell, there's no competing product that matches it for them to migrate to (yet).
Nb - I don't play MMOs because I don't feel like paying per month to play games. I mostly play FPS games, which I buy once and then can play as long as they're popular. I prefer FPS games that are easily modded because the mod communities often end up making extensions to the game that are superior to the game itself.
Suggestion: Decide whether you think we gamers a threat to society before deciding whether you should slow our gaming process by hindering it with ads.
Query: If Gamers kill people, and gamers can't game because of ads, and ads are made by people, will gamers kill advertisers?
Postulation: Hindering gamers from games they pay for with undue ads may lead to being swarmed in a dark alley by 1000 cosplayers.
Sarcasm: I recommend you continue this idea of advertisement in video games.
i own guild wars and the only reason i for that is because it does not have a monthly subscription... i look at games like WoW and star wars galaxies and think that they look pretty sweet, but i could never afford $15 a month... also, i am not really a very dedicated gamer, i just play when i have time... i would be paying for a lot of time that i'm not playing the game... if GW decides to add a subscription fee, i would have to cancel my subscription, i would be pissed, but i see no other choise... frankly i think it would be a bad move anyway, it's popularly thought that WoW is a better game as it is, if the add in a subscription they have that much less appeal over WoW...
I can't wait to drink my daily "Coca-cola" health potion! (oh the irony)
The same problem arises with news media, and with many others.
If it is subscription-only, then it will cater to the desires of the subscribers.
If it is advertiser-only, then it will cater to the desires of the advertisers.
If it is a mix of advertiser-based and subscriber-based, then there will always be a conflict between the desires/needs of the users and those of the advertisers.
In my view, if you can't get people to pay for it (or to contribute to it, as in many OSS products), then you move to being advertiser supported, and you acknowledge that the advertisers (as a cohort) are the ones with true editorial control. Often, when it's mixed (like with most daily newspapers and cable news channels) there is a clear conflict between providing a "fair and balanced" view of the news and not pissing off your advertisers.
How, exactly, this applies to MMOGs, I'm not completely certain, but the theory can still apply.
- RG>
Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
Because sponsorship and ads lower prices for everyone!...ahhh...ummmm...actually everything still costs the frigg'n same. Forget I said that.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
...Because, quite frankly, subscriptions are not going to keep the servers afloat. The game has all of the depth of a kiddie pool, there is really no reason to group up and not solo everything, and the lore reads like it was written by a tenth grader. This is a simple vehicular shooter that, for reasons known only to the developers (developers of the similarly single-minded Jumpgate, if anyone remembers that one), has been run through a mangle in order to stretch it out to fit the vague approximation of an MMOG.
When I buy a vehicle, its without the ads. You want to put your advert on my vehicle, we can discuss a drop in the price or a monthly fee for as long as I choose to run your ads on my vehicle.
If a MMO puts ads in the game, then I will make the same deal with them. If they don't want to deal with me, thats their loss.
http://www.project-entropia.com/ has been throwing around this idea and in fact had mentioned that they will be using in-game advertising. This would be good since it is a theoretically "free" game. As most probably know it is free for a little bit and you can't do to much with out eventually paying a bit. Any how it is another game brining advertising into play.
This SIG pulled due to lack of funding. (This damn war is costing too much!)
I would rather pay $15USD to play an MMORPG without commercials, than paying nothing and have to watch commercials. To be blunt, I've had enough, I've just changed my email address after having the same email address for 7 years, why? Well, because of spam, 60-70 messages a day. And I don't view commercial banners different.
Anarchy Online has been running a free version with commercials ingame for over a year and they seem to be doing nicely. The advantage of free games with commercials is that people can play them who otherwise would not afford it, also you can try it out without paying.
To put commercials into a game that you are paying for is just wrong, or atleast there should be an option to pay a bit more to get rid of the commercial. The money has to come from somewhere, I admit, but to put commercials on something you are paying for already is like milking the same cow twice.
Why complain about ads in games when you are paying and seeing ads everyday online, How much did you pay for your cable modem? And how much do you pay monthly for your internet access? How is this example different. I'm confused, If you don't want to see ads you had better not suport companies that advertise. I personally welcome ads that are helpful. With places like http://www.lootpal.com/ poping up everyday helping establish a realworld economy for mmorpgs, why complain?
The Matrix Online anyone? Move along, nothing to see here
No
When all is said and done, nothing changes...
I pay something like $100/mo for Cable TV and Comcast lets the put in ads all over the place. Only HBO is unaffected by ads.
OK, let me see if I get this straight: ...and then...
First of all, I get to pay around $50 for the privelege of obtaining their client software
Secondly, I get to pay another $15(+/- $5) just to make the client actually useful
I get to be bombarded by advertising?! Are they nuts? TV, and just walking/driving around anywhere are bad enough with all the crappy advertisements, and now they need to pad their income by adding in ad revenue?! WTF is next? Subliminal audio advertising devices in pillows?
(Of course every game that I ever subscribed to, I ended up cancelling as I didn't feel that I was able to play it enough to get $15/mo(or so) worth of entertainment out of it, and this was for MMOs with limited PKing areas. Games with integrated PKing didn't even last more than the free subscription period, but then, that left me ripped off on the otherwise uselessly overpriced client.)
Cable: yep, I just LOVE cable. Pay $40-$80/mo for a bunch of ads, and many crappy low budget shows. (Of course, some cable channels do have some good content, however from what little I watch I have noticed a serious decline in content quality over the last decade or so with the few channels left with decent quality continuously being shifted to higher priced subscription packages.)
If you guys think thats bad, Planetside, my current obsession is a 12.99$ a month MMOFPS. It has ads. The started as silent, and were insanly easy to ignore. Some of them were a bit funny to read. Then however, They added sound.
The second you spawn at sanc and step out of the tube, You here the same 2 ads over and over and over. Not just once, then it changes to a difrent ad... the same ads. Over. And over. and Over untill you memorized the god damn thing. One is some Anti-drug thing thats blaring loud depending on your sound settings. The other is something about school.
I dont blame you guys for not wanting ad's in a game you're paying for monthly, but untill you deal with ads that have sound and repeat over and over and over untill you leave the inside of a building, Consider yourselfs lucky.
Your Lady and Mistress, X6Gothic6Chik6X
If magazines, for instance, did not have ads the magazine cost to the reader would be above what it is with ads. It's inevitable that ads get into video games in one form or another. Got a magazine subscription? Do they have ads? Yup.
Do movies have ads in the middle of them? No, not yet, (apart from product placement). So why do games HAVE to have ads? I prefer TV without ads, even though there is TV with ads. I don't even watch TV shows when they air anymore, I just buy the DVD release and watch it without the crap in it. Or I might DVR-it and fast forward through the commercials.
I'm willing to put up with ads in games if I pay less. But I'm not paying $15/mo for a game that has a lot of ads in it. Fuck that, and fuck the people that enable them by putting up with that shit. Shame, too, because the AutoAssault beta was actually pretty fun.
Knight37 - Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer
Any AOL users care to comment on the ad's AND fee model? (says the ex-AOL user)
If you can deliver that pizza to Poland in 30 minutes.
I think we should all contact NC Soft and tell them how we feel about paying for ads in our games!
NC Soft's recent press release regarding Auto Assault mentions subscription pricing to be determined.
Here's how to contact NC Soft in North America:
prna@plaync.com
Email away!
Sad, but true. (And yes, I have played it enough to know). :(