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Electrical Noise Causing Physiological Stress?
el johnno writes "The Globe and Mail is reporting on possible physiological problems caused by so-called 'dirty electricity.' Poor power quality caused by electrical feedback and harmonics from consumer electronics are cited as a possible cause of various 'physiological stress' problems. While previous research in this area looked for connections between EM fields and cancer, some research is now looking into possible connections to fatigue, headaches, depression, and other symptoms. From the article: 'If electricity were flowing in a constant way, most people's bodies would likely adapt, but with all the interference from modern devices, the resulting fields are too variable for people to get used to.'"
Now I know why I get headaches and feel generally lousy at work. I assumed my job sucked but now I know it's just bad electricity.
Does that mean we've got to don tin foil gowns now?
[blockquote]He began researching the topic when a neighbour expressed the belief that electricity was dangerous. In an act of desperation brought on by constant pain, he did something he initially thought was off-the-wall. He spent $1,000 on filters that, much like surge protectors on a computer, clean up fluctuations and surges in the electricity flowing in the wires around his home.[/blockquote] It never occured to him that it might be about $1,000 cheaper to turn off his electricity for a day or two and see how he felt?
Making you think you're crazy is a billion dollar industry.
'If electricity were flowing in a constant way, most people's bodies would likely adapt, but with all the interference from modern devices, the resulting fields are too variable for people to get used to.'
It's a plot by the Edison company to bring back DC power!
Luckily I'm wearing my AFDB.
Of someone else who thought strange things were happening around him:
I first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love...Yes, a profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I-I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence. I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women, er, women sense my power, and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, Mandrake...but I do deny them my essence.
(Now compare this to: Mr. Byrne also noticed another odd health effect after he cleaned up his power, convincing him that electricity was at the root of his problems. Both he and his wife suddenly began to sleep more soundly and his dreams became "incredibly real and very vivid.")
Cell phone towers and wireless APs huh... what about the several decades before with radio towers?
This seems to be more news for nutcases rather than news for nerds.
I guess it doesn't matter if the field is intentional or not. Both WiFi and some cell phone traffic makes me physically sick over the course of the day. In some cases I can even tell if the router is on or not.
Before you laugh, I've had one job where there were two cell repeaters in the building plus an extensive wifi network. There were some rooms where my eyes would water if I entered them, and at the end of each day I'd sit in the car for 10 minutes to "detox". Didn't seem to bother anyone else.
They also installed a cell tower about 100 yards from my apartment last fall. For the remaining 2.5 months that I lived there, I could barely think and it effectively knocked 2 hours off my sleep. I.e. if I slept for 8 hours it would feel like i slept 6 (I usually turn off everything when I go to bed, too. No computer, no cell).
A running computer does the same, but the dose is a lot smaller. For this reason I only use laptops now (lower power usage). I still hate computer labs.
So yeah, this stuff is no joke.
boldly going forward, 'cause we can't find reverse
"'If electricity were flowing in a constant way, most people's bodies would likely adapt, but with all the interference from modern devices, the resulting fields are too variable for people to get used to.'"
Call this science? what a load of bollocks. This is what you get when you need to print a newspaper every day.
Then can I have equal space to advertise my 'Potency Protector' (TM, Pat Pending..) which comprises a cardboard box covered with tinfoil and printed all over with pyramids.
Cheap at $2,895, or £489 for our UK colleagues.
In the past week we've seen a story that claims that "Sick Building Syndrome" is actually a stress-based problem that can be traced back to poor management.e ws/2006/03/23/nsick23.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/03/23/ ixhome.html for details.
See http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/n
I'd say this is reasonably obvious, and also a similar explanation probably lies behind the original post. EM radiation causing stress, or work (in workplace full of electrical devices) causing stress - which do you think is more likely?
Seriously, this is the dumbest pseudo-scientific media dribble /. has posted in awhile. One guy in Toronto decides electricity is giving him (and a handful of others.. maybe) chronic back pain is reason enough to suggest that electricity is destroying us all? Why aren't untold millions suffering?
The guys heresay even made the summary! He even qualifies it in the next sentence with "There is no proof of this, it's just an opinion." (direct quote from TFA). Not only that but none of the informal "studies" cited were done in a remotely scientific way... it looks like every one lacked any kind of control group (placebo or otherwise).
Stoo-pid.
I used to live next door to people who 'cleansed' their elecrticity using some weird plug-in devices, they tried to sell us some. We didn't buy any... I also had an afternoon at their place while they told me all about satan's influence through rock music, they had many a book about it.
"damnit, trolley I want in your signature." - Elburrito
Stuff that hardly matters.
They called me mad, and I called them mad, and damn them, they outvoted me. -Nathaniel Lee
Quote "the resulting fields are too variable for people to get used to.'" only if the field can be perceived by the body, or has any influence. As far as I know that still ened to be proved.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
There are existing cases to show that bombarding individuals with various frequencies of sound can have adverse effect. In some tests, using sound-waves beyond the human range of hearing still induced many dementia-like effects over time.
This would probably be the opposite of the effect many try to achieve by adding "soothing" environmental sounds (like water from those little water fountain things)... unpleasant noise, even noise that doesn't consciously register, may cause behavioral, mood, or personality alterations.
I know that I find myself rather irritated when I hear the whine of a monitor or TV (bad capacitors). Many people can't hear the sound at all without it being pointed out, but it is something that drives me crazy. In the case of devices that have been ready to go due to caps, I myself may not hear anything but at times I could swear I *felt* the damn thing going...
To summarise it, what if stress and depression arise from chronic overuse of the brain? Information overload and lack of sleep could be the real culprits. Think about it.
... He gets free electricity straight to wherever he is, and he claims hes depressed, unbelieveable, just unbelieveable
I wonder how many got sick(er) from reading this article. Not from the typos or from sitting in front of a computer, but the thought that practicly anything that runs on power makes one sick.
The article brings forwards subjective opinions and stories about individuals, and barely touches organized blind testing. Rumours are started this way, but on the other hand, newspapers are organized rumours.
I don't believe the hype.(Which is a "leading" statement.)
In Soviet Norway, the møøse bites you.
In a world filled with morons, assholes, and political systems that don't work... they think cleaner electricity is the logical step towards reducing stress? The stupidity is beyond description.
I always notice that the fan never generates a constant noise, because of the dirty power...
now if only I could find my UPS, I'd test and see if it sounds better running off the UPS' clean power....
feeling lonely? grab a balled up pillow for company
Just wondered - 50Hz in the UK, 60Hz in the US, probably other frequencies elsewhere. Voltages: much higher in the UK. Perhaps someone should do a study into whether the problem is worse at higher or lower frequencies - maybe, like with sound, some frequencies are euphonic and others not...??
:-)
Mind you, maybe it's just the annoying hum of transformers that's getting everyone down. I know I hate alarm clocks which hum - I once had to create an isolation platform out of an old face-cloth, a book and some cut squash-balls to minimise the annoying hum from an old alarm I had (whilst I was a very poor student). Mind you, I eventually sorted that problem out by blowing it up by connecting a 90wpc stereo amplifier to its speaker (don't ask - it was an experiment, ok?) and fried the lot
John
If electromagnetic fields at the sort of levels we have in our
enviroment really harmed people then as soon as a bolt of lightning
went off in a nearby storm all these "victims" should keel over and
die given the amount of EM power a single bolt puts out. But you
never hear someone saying "storms make me ill" (unless they got a direct
hit of course!). Far more trendy to make out they're some victim of
modern techno society so they can either kids themselves its someone
elses fault they're ill (and nothing to do with hypocondria or some
other mental condition) or so that they can jump on the compensation
bandwagon.
It's when the bill comes in that I get headaches and become depressed.
My web domain.
brain cloud
PROTMAN makes music http://www.protman.com
Recent studies showed approx. 80 percent aren't affected by electricity and EM fields. 20 percent experience indirect complaints (fatigue, headaches, migraine) 0.000001 per cent experience direct complaints: parachuting on electricity poles, short-circuiting themselves, and the ones with electricity (em) sensitivity.
Famous example is the alarmclock radio close to your head. Try sleeping without it for a few days, and you should notice how less fatigued you are, seriously.
You beat me to it.
I love the way slashdot included the beginning part of the quote in the main story but lost the "this is just my opinion" part.
$2,895 = something like £1,600. The product's bullshit, but my inner 'Elite' veteran just jumped for joy...
* buys a thousand of them at £489 each, ships them back over the sea, and flogs them off at $1400 each, making a tidy profit even after shipping, taxes, duties and currency fluctuations, without having had to do any work at all! *
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Double
Blind
Controlled
Trial
Sean Ellis
Follow OfQuack's antics on Twitter.
There's those Japanese researchers who built a device to make people walk as directed by a joystick, and a guy named Persinger at the Laurentian University in I think Canada who built a device which makes people experience something many interpret as God. These devices use field strengths of IIRC only a few nano Tesla, and the fields generated by electrical wiring are much stronger.
That we were NOT affected by electric noise would be a surprising find. Not this.
And what about that electrical allergy we've heard about? Isn't that just what this article is about?
Hope someone figures out how to use Dr. Parsinger's research for a man-machine interface some day. Would be a lot better than cyberpunk brain-plugs. =D
All rites reversed 2010
Ok. Kidding. Not going to happen. But I am sure some research must have been going on towards fixing this. I mean this is so obvious, it can hardly be news.
Possible result of the electronics manufacturing industry trying to downplay any such concerns, to avoid spending more on shielding etc. ? *puts tinfoil hat on*.
Do they mean psychological problems?
They're hiding the cure for NAS! Quick, Ice-T, broadcast it to the whole world!
When I used to work in a stereo shop, with dozens of TV's, they used to use me to go around and turn them all off (after the feeds were shut off, so they were just black screens), since I could hear if any of them were still on, and generally pinpoint which one fairly quickly.
I'm rather curious how common this is, as I don't think I've come across anyone else who could hear these ranges.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
Put stories like this in the comedy section, where they belong.
"Physics is to math as sex is to masturbation." -R. Feynman
Unfortunately, due to your precious cargo you are waylaid by pirates every time and spend your profits on repairing your ship.
Sure, it reeks of pseudoscience, but from my personal experience I can see two ways "dirty electricity" could matter.
1) I lived in a place that had really crazy electrical wiring. As in, about every month or so all three lightbulbs on our cieling fan would all blow out at the same time. If I kept my CRT near one wall, the pattern would make the swimming noises you sometimes see if you put an electric fan near a TV. It made me too nauseous to use it for any extended period of time. Solution? Moved my damn computer to another wall (actually in front of a glass wall -- no EMF interference there).
2) Some fluorescent lights drive me batty. Many lights flicker at double the frequency of the power supply (60hz x 2 = 120hz), which is bloody human noticeable, regardless of how many scientists cast doubt on this. Come to my karate class, wave your hand in front of you, and you'll see multiple images of your hand. Or sometimes no intervening images at all on a punch if you throw it fast enough, which probably makes you look a lot faster than you really are. If you had a "dirty" power supply, I could see it perhaps making a difference to fluorescent lights that are tied to the cycle of the power supply.
When I resonate at about 80Hz, after a few minutes, my girlfriend starts moaning.
I am surprised by the amount of folk slamming this subject.
It is more than obvious now that we there is a serious problem with some people having a suceptability to certian frequencies and that those frequencies may not be the same for everyone affected. The fact that the power companies do not agree is to be expected.
Can you get cancer from living underneath pylons? yep, can transformer noise stress out a tinitus sufferer? yes, do dreams involve electricity? yes, does electricity produce magnetic fields? yes, does the brain work using minute amounts of electricity? yes, can certain light frequencies hurt some people but not others? yes, can sound waves make you sick? yes. The list is endless. What many ignorant people do not realise is some of the folk involved in researching the effects of possible EMF problems belong to various EPA authorities who are the same people who bring you clean water to drink and other little things your life depends upon, all so you can scorn the unknown on
Some Asperger syndrome sufferers, synesthesia sufferers and many others are still not fully recognised as having legitimate problems with some frequencies of the electromagnetic spectrum in some countries or by some health bodies at gorment level, so why is it so surprising the average person does not believe EMFs can interfear with the workings of the human senses.
The fact that experiments may not show true correlation for specific frequencies does not disprove the problems.
I think there is a tendancy for some people to imagine they have EMF problems but remember that EMFs is a massive subject covering many different things. Before you go thinking about what affects the electromagnetic spectrum can have on human flesh and human electrical activity in the brain at least find out about the existing established problems, anomilies, uses, unknowns and weapons that involve such technologies before slagging off people who say they suffer problems from them. A vast amount of money has been sunk into making some of these technologies safe to use and even more money has been spent researching weaponry that depend upon them.
If you are going to question the viability of experiments done using magnetic feilds on the brain remember to check if the minute variations in the natural magnetic fluctuations of the enviroment have been screened like when proper brain scan experiments are carried out since you might not have a sensitive enough experiment to draw a real conclusion from, and check to see if it is a health institute trying to prove a problem or a power company trying to disprove a problem.
Open your mind... oh, hang on a miniute, it's already open is it not?
Also, I advise all tinfoil wearers to purchase my new "acme stickon copper tinfoil mobile earth strip thingy" for ultimate peace of mind.
Seriously, Pylons can cause cancer and there is a mass of stuff we do not know about EMFs so don't be so quick to call people loonies, they may be trying to tell you something. Dreams are electric after all.
Don't even think of putting these 200ft pylons through Beauly or you guys will find out exactly what direct action is all about.
http://www.scottish-southern.co.uk/news/BeaulyDen
No matter how advanced we become technologically, we still cling to ridiculous superstition. It used to be sacrificing goats to prevent crop failure, now it's mysterious black boxes to "clean" our electricity. It's all about trying to gain a semblance of control over the events that effect us greatly in
our day to day lives, but that we cannot influence.
(One common thread in all these alternative therapies - at the end of the chain, you have someone raking in the bucks.)
This world needs a little more rational thinking. Either that, or some good homeopathic remedies for gullibility.
Its caused by "sodomized electrons" reverting to their primitive state and spilling out of power lines to crush people and buildings like "a ton of invisible lead soup."
m l
http://www.thehighhat.com/Static/002/brass_eye.ht
"As fluorescent lights (without diffusers) have large exposed areas they may dazzle your eyes and affect your capacity to see clearly - so it is particularly important that they are fitted with adequate, preferably opaque, diffusers"
. htm do a word search in this doc for "diffusers"
http://www.lhc.org.uk/members/pubs/books/vdu/vd02
There is a lot more to this, as far as I can remember, not having a diffuser on a fluorescent light at work is actualy a breach of the Health and Safety laws in the UK.
... I can't believe I just referenced Johnny Mnemonic.
When I resonate at about 80Hz, after a few minutes, my girlfriend starts moaning.
:D
According to a few studies you would have better luck with 33Hz, just thought I would let you know
have fun with that
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore."
"Electrical Allergies" are a form of mental disorder. People who have these "allergies" also commonly claim to be allergic to telephones, copy machines, plastic computer casings, Fox news... pretty much anything that they can use as a focus for their anxieties. I've met people who are allergic to cats, but only when they know that the people around them own cats or they see one in the room. I spent a weekend talking to a girl who said she was allergic to water. It's not hypochondria - the person believes that there is one special trigger to this "allergy" - it's like a phobia wrapped in medical terminology. To some degree we all do this, but when you believe that the allergy is to something amazingly common, and that the effects are particularly debilitating, it becomes a real mental problem.
Personally, I think Big Pharma has a lot to apologize for here. They're always trying to convince people that they need to get a prescription for Zoloft or Ritalin or whatever the happy pill of the day is. The worst part is, the smarter you are - the more you can remember about various diseases and allergies, and the more analytical you are - the worse this delusion will be. I suppose that's why we get a lot of people on Slashdot claiming to be allergic to these things.
User "noise" causing psychological stress. They need to be sure that any formal testing controls for this similar factor.
But maybe that also explains why noisy computers are so damn annoying? (Well, other than the noise itself, of course.) My old machine was probably the noisiest one I've ever heard, and now I've got a dead-silent HP one with an AMD64...
Creative misinterpretation is your friend.
The Russians have been devoting far more research into the effect of magnetic fields on the human body, the upshot of which has been, for example, far greater radiation control in hospitals. They have in fact been aware of the potential use for controlled magnetic fields, notably for illnesses (such as addictive behaviour) linked to brain activity. This is acted upon using magnetic fields to stimulate neural activity in specific sectors, the effect of which is reportedly far more positive than medication used to control these types of problems. There are also other uses, as the principle was developed into a working tool when the USSR (as it then was) looked into the effects of space travel on astronauts (or cosmonauts, for you remaining soviets).
Yeah, but then he wouldn't finish in thirty seconds.
Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
Actual research backs up the damaged recieved from generated by smoke and excessive noise. It's called empirical evidence. This guy has none. In fact, the evidence works against him.
Simply rephrasing a sentence is meaningless.
Claiming that one can not only directly feel weak fast changing EM fields (light and IR heat excluded!) but no less then also feel the difference in their spectral distribution is just too much of a quackery!
OTOH, he may be honest but barking at wrong tree. When electric power is down, it is not surprising to feel a relief.
Now, there, I am probably not the only one who can say that prolonged exposure to various electric equipment produced, barely audible, sounds (especially high pitch, although hum too) make me feel some of the alleged symptoms. Right now, I hear quite loudly my and/or my coworkers CRT monitor(s) (high voltage transformer ferrite core - magnetostrictive material) and it gives me very unpleasent feeling in my neck. Similar goes for cooling fans hum. And, last but not least, most (cheap) capacitors' dielectrics are piezoelectric materials, so it may happen that some of the HF noise that came from mains "beats" with circuit-generated noise and result is sometimes in audible range.
In last century (give or take a half of century) the noise signature has changed greatly. We have not adapted to that. It seems that authorities (lawmakers) are not aware of magnitude of stress that is imposed on us by noise which is not high in loudness, but just constant and unpleasent/annoying.
Better understanding of the noise phenomenon, better design of electric (electronic) equipment and better health standards should make things bareable. Before anyone invests grands into mains filtering, they should consider good antiphones (both earplugs and earshells), better acoustic insulation for equipment suspected of producing noise and as much time spending outdoors, as far from "funny" sounds as possible.
I'm surrounded by computers all day everyday, some are super loud with 10 fans, some just loud. When I travel to a place with no electrical appliance or computers, my ears scream with the pain of silence. So much I can't possibly sleep without a noise, like the electric razor left on in the bathroom. Electricity does create EM disturbances but you can not detect them without equipment. The real problem is white noise.
High energy arcs and UV radiation, among other things, can break the bonds in an oxygen molecule, thereby creating ozone.
Oh, and don't forget the varying ages, conditions, and characteristics of the different distribution systems.
I am not suggesting you buy into the articles every claim, or even that any of it is "true" in the end, but to be so dismissive in the face of such complexity is almost antithetical to the basic tenants of science upon which many of you are basing your derision.
"Either way this does not refute Dr. Persinger's findings nor the existence of radio-controlled Japanese scientists."
What needs to be refuted? In the cases sited, the subjects are either being given direct electrical current, or are hooked to electrodes that direct the field into their brains. In neither case does the EM exposure resemble in any way what is being discussed in this article.
"The government grants you rights, not the other way around."-- beav007. Yes, these people really exist...
I am SO relieved to know that the half-dozen or so glazed doughnuts I eat and the two pots of coffee (with sugar and cream) I drink everyday ARE NOT the cause of my "physiological distress."
It's the dirty electricty!
Somebody call my worker's comp lawyer NOW!
What?
"It is more than obvious now that we there is a serious problem with some people having a suceptability to certian frequencies and that those frequencies may not be the same for everyone affected."
So, since it's more than obvious (huh? What is "more" than obvious?) you should have no trouble providing the peer reviewed research.
The fact that you've assumed something is more than obvious, despite a dearth of supporting research, calls your motives into question.
"The fact that experiments may not show true correlation for specific frequencies does not disprove the problems."
Really? I thought that's exactly what they showed. Silly me.
How can we take you seriously when you dismiss the research you don't like and drawn a conclusion you do like (based on NO research) all in the same post.
"The government grants you rights, not the other way around."-- beav007. Yes, these people really exist...
- If it were true you'd expect stronger fields to make a bigger effect than miniscule ones.
- Therefore driving past a 500,000 watt radio or TV transmitting antenna should cause much much much greater symptoms than a 0.0000001 watt emissions from "dirty power". No such effect.
- People that are exposed to high EM fields, such as airport workers, tower light replacers, cell site testers, plasma physicists, industrial RF welders, TV technicians, walkie-talkie testers, they should all be really sick. Like 100,000 time ssicker than the average Joe or Jane Doe. They're not.
- At the neurological level, the voltage spikes from your nerves are 1,000's of times a bigger EM field than anything from outside your body. It's hard to imagine how a signal that's much weaker than your nerve impulses can have a noticeable effect.
- EM fields includes light, particularly sunlight. Sunlight hits you with almost 1,000 watts per square meter, many powers of ten greater than any other EM field, and most people think sunlight feels *good*, not bad.
Too many basic objections to this idea. Move on.You seem to realize that the article is an example of ignorance and/or fraud. Good.
This is the fourth time in the past two years approximately that Slashdot editors have posted an article like this. Slashdot editors show that they didn't study in their science classes.
Those who did study know that anything that is above a temperature of absolute zero releases electromagnetic energy. It's everywhere, all the time, and was there before people began making radio waves.
Maybe the article is an early April Fool's Day joke. It was written by Simon Hayter (Hater) about a man named Kevin Byrne (Burn).
--
Before, Saddam got Iraq oil profits & paid part to kill Iraqis. Now a few Americans share Iraq oil profits, & U.S. citizens pay to kill Iraqis. Improvement?
It's funny - sometimes stories like this are posted that cast doubt on technology. Geeks love tech, and even when there is some possible grounding, there's a mass 'LALALA I CANT HEAR YOU' effect. It's like people don't want to accept that the things they love so much might /possibly/ be bad for them.
You'd think the reading demographic would actually be more concerned.
My personal belief, is that if there is a problem with electric lines, phones, masts, wireless, and so on - it's over the next few years that we're likely to work it out. Even if things were fine before, when I was a kid we had a TV with a remote control that used a cable. We had no PCs, we did have a home computer but it ran on a 9v adapter and plugged into the TV. We certainly didn't have wireless game controllers, wireless networks, PCs running 24/7, or mobile phones.
Who knows? It wouldn't surprise me entirely.
3) You are affected by EM radiation, but the effects take a long time to show.
For example: I am affected by virusses. If I work alongside someone who has a cold, but not yet sick enough to show obvious symptoms, I may get ill. Does this mean that I can use this effect to "correctly recognise" when someone is incubating a cold? No, because the time delay is too long.
The symptoms may be psychosomatic , rather than caused by EM radiation, but the quoted studies are not proof. Some idiots still say that asthma is psychosomatic (a myth) because of similarly flawed research in the past.
Reduce, reuse, cycle
Take two identical cables of equal length, roll them out accross your garden lawn to your garage, hook up a lightbulb inside the garage to one of them and power up. Do not anything to the other cable. One is transmitting power, the other is not. Leave for a few months. When mowing the lawn lift cable but replace exactly where it was originaly. When a few months have passed check the area damaged on the lawn by taking an average measurement of width of damage for the live and the unpowered cables. Will there be any difference? Will the lawn sustain more damage from the live cable or will both cables damage the lawn with equal efficiency?
P.S. if the live cable causes less damage...
In Russia, there is far more research into these issues than in the West. Thus, regulations applying to hospitals takes into account the EM emission level globally, and are far stricter than, for example, the US, or any european country. The Russians believe that EM fields do indeed aversely affect the ability of the body to heal.
This is not however the sum of their research. In dealing with the aftermath of space journeys, and specifically the physical effects on cosmonauts that space travel and weightlessness have, they discovered that targetted EM fields have an exciting effect on blood circulation, notably inside the brain. This research is currently used as a non-intrusive way to treat alcoholics, and addicts (please note, these are not the only medical applications, just the ones I remember....), with as little as one treatement a day.
So while the basic point of the article is not entirely flawed, it is far too broad a statement to be taken as such.
I for one am driven nuts by my dirty electronics! Maybe not so much a physiological issue as a mental one. I have somewhat sensitive hearing and can hear the electric hiss of a tube tv usually from across an entire house. Not to mention some computers. Drives me mad sometimes. It's like I'm hearing a dog whistle.
What do I have to do to get a sig around here?! www.bearscanfly.org
those special places. Bad naughty electricity. Filthy cheap electricity.
Read this
. html
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.11/persinger
Especially this part, in the FIRST PARAGRAPH
"Over a scratchy speaker, a researcher announces, "Jack, one of your electrodes is loose, we're coming in." The 500-pound steel door of the experimental chamber opens with a heavy whoosh; two technicians wearing white lab coats march in. They remove the Ping-Pong-ball halves taped over my eyes and carefully lift a yellow motorcycle helmet that's been retrofitted with electromagnetic field-emitting solenoids on the sides, aimed directly at my temples. Above the left hemisphere of my 42-year-old male brain, they locate the dangling electrode, needed to measure and track my brain waves. The researchers slather more conducting cream into the graying wisps of my red hair and press the securing tape hard into my scalp."
"The government grants you rights, not the other way around."-- beav007. Yes, these people really exist...
because this was already learned about in Joe Vs the Volcano in the very beginning where he has the flourecent lamp that constantly makes that annoying humming sound.
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
All these years I just figured I was lazy, but now I know that it's my employers fault for exposing me to all these computers.
But seriously now, anyone not living in a third world country (and even most of them) is exposed to electrical noise. How can anyone not look at this "study" in a skeptical light? We can probably expect the lawsuits to start any day now, along with the excuses...why yes officer, I did shoot my wife, but it was the electricity that made me do it.
Just another day in Paradise
But the noises that many consumer electronics generate definitely increases my stress level. Though it's been a lot better since I stopped using CRTs. Now all I need to do is find a work environment that is free of fluorescent lights.
You burden me with your questions You'd have me tell no lies
You're always asking what it's all about But don't listen to my replies
You say to me I don't talk enough But when I do I'm a fool
These times I've spent, I've realized I'm going to shoot through
And leave you
The things, you say Your purple prose just gives you away
The things, you say
You're unbelievable
You burden me with your problems By telling me more than mine
I'm always so concerned With the way you say
You've always go to stop To think of us being one
Is more than I ever know But this time, I realize
I'm going to shoot through And leave you
The things, you say Your purple prose just gives you away
The things, you say
You're unbelievable
Seemingly lastless, don't mean You can ask us
Pushing down the relative Bringing out your higher self
Think of the fine times Pushing down the better few
Instead of bringing out the clues To what the world and everything anger to
Brace yourself with the grace of ease I know this world ain't what it seems.
(You're unbelievable)
You burden me with your questions You'd have me tell no lies
You're always asking what it's all about But don't listen to my replies
You say to me I don't talk enough But when I do I'm a fool
These times I've spent, I've realized I'm going to shoot through
And leave you
The things, you say Your purple prose just gives you away
The things, you say It's why I love you more
The things, you say Your purple prose just gives you away
The things, you say
You're unbelievable
You're so unbelievable You're unbelievable
(You're unbelievable) You're unbelievable
"It's a tarp!" -- Dyslexic Admiral Ackbar
So working around powerful transformers at your day job is not a cancer risk. But sleeping under pylons, or under an electric blanket for many nights is a risk. EMF strength falls off with square of distance (apart from accidental directional antenna effects), so pylons are only a risk if you sleep right under them. Electric blankets are a bad idea all around.
It turns out that dogs are more susceptible to 60 hz EMF than people are. Cancer in dogs has been linked to continuous proximity to strong EMF, even when no measurable link for humans was found. Dogs seems to be a "canary" species for 60hz EMF.
For the original poster - I would recommend not protesting the pylons entirely, but insist on making the land underneath and closeby a park area. Just visiting the area is not a problem. You can even study the wildlife in the park to see if any other health effects turn up.
I would like to see studies on 50hz EMF. Avoiding the problems with 60hz might be as simple (yeah - right, the whole country buys all new appliances and power supplies) as changing frenquency.
Beware of people selling you things in the name of protection from "dirty" electricity.
Its obvious to most people having common sense that the tiny amount of emf from household electricity has no effect on body. Body is a good conductor and emfs cannot penetrate you easily.
What people dont know is whether it can affect the brain. It seems most unlikely however. Even if a tiny fraction of emf is able to produce a tiny amount of current in some area of the brain, its not going to make any difference, because neurons dont conduct in an analog way. It takes 1000's of signals from other neurons and right conditions to make a neuron fire and brain has very high redundancy, i.e, even if a few thousand neurons fire due to some error or external potentials, it still manages to work nicely.
But what about cancer, the effect at cellular levels ? The cells are always surrounded by a lot of emf/charges anyway, we have a lot of electricity flowing through the body at any time, a tiny bit of noise wont make any difference. It already very noisy inside.
As is well known, too much of anything is always bad. So yes, its better to avoid extremely high voltage stuff.
God created man in his own image, but somehow he evolved into a hairless monkey.
Towards the end of the article, they note that 50% of the people in a supposedly blind test noticed improvements when EM filters were in place. That means that 50% did not notice improvements. Or, put a bit more plainly, the results were indistinguishable from random coin flips. (Of course we'd need more information about the design of the test to understand the results that were reported, but I find the result less than believeable.)
Another indicator that this article has to be taken with a huge grain of salt: the only experts whom the article cites as opposed to the results of the research are the representatives of the utility companies. This implies, of course, that the only opponents to this viewpoint have an economic agenda.
I expect to hear more about this new malady. The first wave will be a proliferation of quack devices to "filter out harmful harmonic energies." The second wave would be pointless regulations imposed by local governments. The third wave may very well be lawsuits against utilty companies for harming the US populace...
Dr Michael Persinger, of Laurentian University in Ontario, Canada also claims that particular frequencies of EM fields can make people who are susceptible to them think they are being haunted or being watched.
. stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3046179
This is not a new idea. Humans are sensitve to changing magnetic fields.
Magnetic fields have been used in medicine for a while - a large electromagnet placed on the skull would emit a breif magnetic field, and induce currents in the neurons in the brain, causing a spasm which could be used in diagnosing various problems. See this for more information.
These effects have also been used in more obscure ways: A while ago, I saw a product being tested as an aid for insomniacs. It was basically an RF emitting spoon that would be placed in the mouth and through some unknown mechanism could help to induce sleep. Trials showed it to be quite effective.
the device is mentioned here. Below is an excerpt:
"I was skeptical at first," admitted Dr. Thomas Roth, a sleep expert at Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit, in an interview with New Scientist. "But the indications are that it does have some biological effects and is effective in treating insomnia in some circumstances." The LEET device was tested on over a hundred chronic insomniacs at two clinics, the Scripps Clinic in La Jolla, California, and Denver's University of Colorado Health Sciences Center. Some of the insomniacs received a fully operational LEET device to help them sleep, while others received a device that looked the same -- but emitted no radio energy at all."
Its probably best to keep in mind that this was using a low frequency signal, high frequency RF (~2GHz and above) is not believed to be recitified in body tissue, and would simply cause heating rather that any direct neuronal stimulation.
Bluetooth, wifi, cellphones and passive radiators such as PCs are all incredibly useful but I think that we should be increasingly aware of the effects that EM emmisions can have on the body in an age of accelerating usage.
Nothing sucks like a Vax, nothing blows like a PowerMac G4
it sounds like no one really knows one way or the other
... sometimes I wonder about people
is there no credible science? not one link?
isn't everyone just expressing an unknowledgeable opinion then?
what's the use in that? doesn't this discussin seem like a waste of time?
if there's no real science here, maybe there could and should be?
sigh
Yes. I got attuned to it when I was a kid from old Apple II monitors that were left on after the computer was shut off.
It's indicative of some part in the video circuitry actually vibrating ever so slightly in response to the frequency of the current running through it:
http://www.repairfaq.org/samnew/tvfaq/tvwhine.htm
Oh sure...the cure for N.A.S. is...drumroll please...go for a friggin' walk!!!
power is generally sent over unshielded lines at 60hz.
when you modulate that sine wave with data, you're scrambling
a 60hz tone into what sounds like a modem -- and since the power
lines are unshielded, instead of pumping out a 60hz sine-wave TONE,
you end up getting the most disruptive power signal possible.
unshielded data over power lines causes an inordinate amount of
radio signal interference -- more than any other technology out there,
simply because the whole system of power line transmission becomes
a massive disruptive antenea.
..from a rag of a publication.
Funny the work-related malaise strikes those in socialist countries.
I'd look elsewhere for a cause, like "crappy dead-end job"
I notice the same types of electrical devices but I have chocked it up more to the sound they produce than the electrical signal. My monitor, my DSL box, computer etc. all have a particular high frequency sound that I find irritating. When I turn them off, I'm definitely happier. In a busy office all the equipment creates quite a bit of noise pollution.
And we're not crazy, it just means we have good, undamaged hearing. As other's have noted, there are many parts of a conventional tube TV that can vibrate at high frequencies, near the high end of human hearing. Most commonly it's the flyback transformer for the horizontal refresh.
CRT's give off RF. The amount of time spent in front of a CRT correlates positively with depression. Don't blame the RF; blame the weight gain, lack of exercise, loss of friends, displacement of sexual activities, and less frequent bowling.
Not to mention a cold and dark house. If you had a chest freezer, you might start to approach that cost. Not to mention the cost for the utility to throw the power off and on (well, I guess you could use the master breaker too).
Slashdot Patriotism: We Support our Dupes!
From the looks of it, the G&M misspeled the name of their "expert". If you Google Magda Havas, you'll find that it's not only the same associate prof at Trent, but (unless there are two doctors with the same name in Southern Ontario) she's a big expert in dowsing too! Her credibility grows. The Globe and Mail is on the way to being the Canadian verison of the Weekly World News.
If this was true anyone working in a UPS environment would be a sick nutter.
I'm not saying this is true, but your argument against it is faulty. The human neurochemical system is complex with wide diversity. Think of it this way: If you add red to another color, what color will the result be? It could be just about any color of the rainbow depending on how much red you add and what color you are adding it to.
It is the same with psychotropic drugs or anything else that affects human neurology. It could have no obvious effect on one person, but turn the next person into a total nutcase. There is no one-size-fits-all in this type of thing.
this is loaner...my sig is in the shop
Robert Heinlein wrote a novella titled "Waldo", which nailed this possibility sixty years ago. In the story, power transmission is by radio, a la Tesla. One of the keys of the story is a general rundown in the physical health and vitality of younger people due the the EM interference in synaptic communication. Widespread lethargy and weakness resulted from the saturation, but no one noticed but one doctor, Waldo's, who wore a lead-lined trenchcoat to shield himself. He was considered an eccentric.
Waldo himself was an MD patient so weak that he built himself a satellite to live in so that he could move about under his own power in microgravity. He also diagnosed the problem, created a solution, and rolled up some bucks, so there's Heinlein in a nutshell.
Heinlein wasn't trying to predict anything, but to hit a target at sixty years, now that's good.
Save us, Johnny Mnemonic!
With that said, somebody is going to spout off stuff like this (Google Cached HTML version of PDF) and claim that it's "conclusive." Those studies dealt with individuals, and they weren't blind tests either, that's hardly enough to conclude anything other than those involved were a bit loony. (Also notice who hosted the study ;)
And look at it from a logical point of view, electricity is cleaner now than it ever was, devices are better at handling RF, and they use far lower voltages than their counterparts even a decade ago. It would stand to reason that if ES existed, it would be less common now than it was ten or twenty years ago because devices are better shielded, emit less interference, and use less electricity than they did in the past.
Our greatest enemy is neither a single man, nor is it a nation, it is, as it has always been, our own greed.
- The fluorescent lights overhead flicker at 60Hz
- Computer fans make a racket
- Hard drives constantly make some sound
- Monitors flicker by design
- Cell phone signals drop out, prompting louder volume which doesn't really help.
People less accustomed to computers and electronic devices will also have a stress response to the unfamiliar when they use it.Is it related to [cue mystical music] electromagnetic fields? Well, all those things use EM fields, but it looks to me like we've just found a bunch of new (in the last century) ways to annoy people with electricity. EM fields aren't the bad guy - it's all the ingenuity sprouted as a result of convenient EM fields and the design flaws that people haven't yet recognized.
I haven't thought of a similar situation in the pre-electricity world - perhaps standing next to a fast-moving windmill would have been annoying, or listening to the clanking of a chain going on or off its spool, or any other squeaky-type sounds. The general public doesn't understand "squeaky" yet as it applies to various electronic gadgets.
I hate call waitin`~+~~~
NO CARRIER
This noise is caused by the high voltage (and resulting non-trivial magnetic field) produced in the flyback transformer which induces unwanted parasitic vibrations... very similar to the charge pumps used in camera flash circuits...
The reason you can hear it is that the scan frequency falls within the range of human hearing:
NTSC = 525 lines (480 are visible) 30 times a second (interlacing does not affect the scanning frequency, just where the lines are placed)
30*525 = 15750Hz
This is quite high, and most older people cannot hear it, but I definitely can. If you have sufficiently good (or bad)speakers, you can test this by using a tone generator on your computer. (The old plugin for winamp comes to mind). Laptop speakers, which are usually tiny POS plastic cone jobbies will generally be better at this than large desktop speakers that make up for poor quality with over-emphasized bass response.
For PAL (and to appease those Euro-punks that like to slam Americanism), the equation is:
25*625 = 15625Hz
which is very similar.
- Strydre
Headaches are cause by pulse modulated waves at frequencies lower then 60 Hz. The carrier frequency for the waves maybe any frequency.
You have single span, multi span, and multi span restrings. In a restring, if the superconducter gets scratched it is not so super, this can occur when the hangars have a difference in hight that is enough to cause a problem with either the capstans pull or the brake system causing a section of the string to run at the wrong velocity in turn letting it rise out of the carrying pully to a point it can toutch the top of the cage and get scratched. Due to liability I imagine this sometimes does not get noticed intentionaly as a multi-tower span costs. Therefor not all the cables on pylons are going to be equal, but problems will be mostly where this is a large variation in hight that presents a small possibility of casing damage to the multicore shield. There will be a small level of error in the efficiency of the cables and this is most probibly compensated for by the power companies. There are a whole lot of cables in a Country, some of which may not be opperating as they should due to unseen installation problems. That is a very difficult problem to check. Not all pylon cables are equal and some may be verging on faulty. Although we are meant to have either 50 or 60Hz that is not always accurate, can the transmition frequencies be varied whilst live for efficiency reasons? I am sure there is a lot more to electricity transmition that meets the eye. It would be interesting to know if there is any excessive height difference where the medical problems have been encountered. Of course I am probibly way wrong.
If I only thought with a 50 Hz brain, maybe I would believe you. Fortunately, I have years of 60 Hz neural synchronization therapy.
Get a program called SPECLAB, hook up a few hundred meters of coiled cable and plug it into the mic socket. Now witness the 15KHz tone of TV's in a lush waterfall pattern. It's a bit like the matrix, I can tell when a train goes past on the line a few hundred meters from my house, when someones using a drill in my street etc etc.
See here for more info: http://www.vlf.it./ Check out their Unexplained signals gallery, much fun. Just watch out for those russian ZEVS transmissions, I could go on for hours about it so.....
Cheers!
Attenuated Nerve Syndrome...
Somebodys been watching "Johnny Mnemonic" again.
So you're saying that Kevin Byrne has no peers?
For just $59.95, I will sell you a magnetic bracelets that will protect you, as well as a quartz crystal neckless that will discharge "bad energy"!
I garantee that my solution is based on the same rigorous scientific research, and same theoretical underpinnings as the "science" in the linked article!
But seriously though, between some people wanting to teach "Intelligent Design" in schools, to people complaining about "bad vibes" coming from their toaster, to the unreasonable fear of nuclear technology, to the unreasonable fear of GM foods, to people wanting to ban research on stem cells, and the whole advent of all kinds of crazy "alternative medical treatments" like inner body massage, or yogurt enemas, or "color therapy" or whatever... the newfound popularity of fundamentalist Christianity or fundamentalist Islam. the proliferation of TV psychics.
Doesn't it seem like the public is become completly anti-science and anti-rationality nowadays? People are believing in all kinds of crap that wouldn't pass the laugh test 20 years ago, and now people take this stuff seriously? And it doesn't seem to be any one political group, or religion, or country - I could understand if it was just one group of ludites or reactionaries doing it - but it seems universal! What the hell is going on?
You might also want to consider a regular daily routine, balanced and nutritional food (consult RDAs), quality and regular sleep, and cutting down on caffeine. So many people neglect basic human maintenance, and then wonder why they don't feel good :)
The United States uses 120 volts, not 110 and has for some time. Old tube amplifiers have troubles due to the higher voltage.
Europe used to be 220 except the UK which was 240, now they are all moving to 230 (which is bad news for the UK - as higher voltage is more efficient, and being exactly twice the US is more convienient).
Frequency is kept regulated within very narrow bands, variations can disrupt the grid (parts of the grid need to be in phase and on frequency with each other to be joined - else huge currents flow - plus anything that was even trying to lag or lead from the rest of the grid would cause problems), also, clocks use the frequency for timekeeping, so even though a drop to 59 Hz in the US would still run most things just fine, over one day a clock would lose 24 minutes, hardly acceptable. Someone at MIT (I think) put a frequency changer before a classroom clock and was making class shorter and shorter each day to drive their prof batty.
100 volts in the US is way out of spec, 108-132 is the "acceptable" range, at 100 volts motors would be getting damaged or not run right, I'd be screaming at the power company if it was me getting that, computers would possibly have problems, would likely use more current to keep up the wattage, which could result in a positive feedback loop - if enough of the draw is such devices, less voltage = more current = less voltage until something gives way.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superhet Use a local oscillator (instead?). I only half know what I'm talking about, but that's better than most people.
But about turning off the power for a day or two. There are other things that effect quality of life that kind of depend on power being on, you know.
I remember watching a documentary years ago, from a UK channel (BBC 2?), about the statistics of suicides along major overhead cable routes. It seemed to make a case for depression etc. from those sources. I live beside a substation now though, and I feel pretty good, so I'm putting it down to coincidence.
I also remember hearing that some US schools had overhead cables moved underground around the schools though, and I think that was because of EM rather than kids climbing the pylons.
So... does anyone know if there's any valid concerns about overhead power EM?
Hmm, well in the case of "monitor while," I've noticed many that only whine at a particular refresh rate or resolution. 640x480... no whine. 1024x768, there's a high-pitched squeal (or vise versa). Different refresh rates can have similar results
Where I used to work, one of the new monitors we got for the secretary's desk came with a whine. Most people in the office couldn't hear it, but she definately could. I was able to notice it as well in most cases (depending on background noise) and also noticed that it came and went depending on the monitor's position. This led me to experiment and I discovered that the power plug would move a bit depending on monitor orientation, and the monitor whine would go away if I jiggled it enough. Unfortunately it usually came back again, and it aggravated her enough that we sent the monitor in for a-fixing. Apparently a bad solder job on the ground will be enough to cause this problem as well, which makes sense as I've often heard whines in my car stereo etc from a back ground-loop feedback before I was able to isolate the problem.
Can someone explain to me what an electrical field is? I know about magnetic fields, I know about electric current (and its relationship to magnetic fields), I know about static charge. But what the devil is an electrical field, if such a thing exists?
True enough when the sound was in the audible range. Nobody likes static. But these sounds were not perceptible to the subjects, or at least not on a level where they could consciously pick it out. I don't doubt their ears were picking something up, but not enough that the brain itself would recognize it other than to suffer from headaches and other issues.
Where were you when they taught about similes.
...motors would be getting damaged...
...computers would possibly have problems...
My statement isn't a similie in the strictest sense, but those figures were by no means meant to be exact and were intedend to illustrate that the fluctuations were the problem and not the presence of the EMF itself.
drop to 59 Hz...
My point is that there is drift both over and under 60HZ that mostly averages out so looking only at underage when countering is not effective when you get called on it, which you apparently aren't used to.
Damaged? How so?
Computers do have problems! By golly I'm going out to demand the power company do something about the computer problems right now!
Perhaps it isn't normal EM that is causing the problem, but scalar waves.
That would explain the poor results in lab tests, creating a clean EM wave without scalar components might not effect one like "real life" EM exposure with a scalar component.
Maxwell's equations were quaternion based, Heaviside bastardized ("simplified") them using vectors and lost the scalar component, and with it, part of EM theory.
Scalar waves can shed light on everything from biological effects to electrogravitation.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
This makes the assumption that it's the scale of the noise or EM that causes the problem. However, there are many things that in a single large dose are quickly shrugged off, whereas continual small doses can ramp up.
There are lots of other factors too, frequency, etc. Let's take sound for awhile. A loud boom (lightning or whatever) will certainly shake me up for a moment, but unless it's popped my eardrum I will recover. Sitting around something that is giving off a "static" sound (for example an off-channel TV or radio) drives me bloody nuts in a relatively short period of time.
This isn't to say that EM is killing somebody, or even necessarily having a physically damaging effect. But there definately could be psycological or other comulative effects associated with EM or "electric noise" (as in actual sound, whether subsonic or supersonic) effects of modern electronics. We're not talking about brain-baking cellphone radiation here, but rather something that induces nervous pressure.
Want to experiment... sit somebody down in a room with one of those nice little portable water fountains. They're rather pleasant and soothing. Sit that same person in the room with a dripping tap. Aggravation may ensue.... even though both are water-related they are not the same in cumulative effect.
For more info, see my comments on one of the earlier pseudo-science Slashdot articles: There is no need for speculation.
And: Adding to my parent comment:.
Slashdot editors: Please educate yourselves about this subject. This Slashdot story is perhaps the 4th in 2 years about this subject.
One thing I'll add to this. I've noticed in the last few years that I have a lot of issues with certain types of background noise.
First of all, my hearing in the high-sonic range is still very acute and sensitive. I'm on of those people who can tell when a TV is running on the other side of the house (by hearing the whine), and am sensitive to other such sounds. I fix computers regularly, and often help customers spot problems when I hear that telltale "capacitor whine" that others can't quite catch.
However, through me in a room with a certain tone level and it's extremely frustrating to carry a conversation. Moreover, it's frustrating for me to even try working in such an environment even if I'm not trying to talk. While sometimes words are muffled by background noise, quite often it's more an issue of processing the conversation over the background noise. I can tell what's been said if I think on it for a moment, but I can't always seem to phase out all the other things I'm hearing that are, in effect, tying up my consciousness.
It's the same thing at work, and yet different. I work faster and more effectively with certain types of background noise. Near silence and I can hear the little annoying things, or it's just too quiet. A lot of background hum and an I get annoyed. However if I through on a decent set of earphones, and turn on some tunes (not too loud, nor distracting) and I find my work speeds noticably.
Maybe I'm a bit quacked myself, but perhaps some of the issues we have with noise is that it is, in fact, audibly in a certain way, but our brains just filter it out. In large doses, perhaps your brain is actually being tied up a bit processing and filtering all that extraneous noise. Certainly the brain does lots of thing on a semiconscious level (I breathe without thinking about it, but I can also consciously change my breathing patterns or hold my breath) so perhaps noise and sound fall along that area?
...the heavy electricity controversy.
"The White House is not an intelligence-gathering agency," -- Scott McClellan, Whitehouse spokesman.
There is so much RFI in my neighborhood I can barely operate on HF anymore. Back my grandpappy's day you'd stick your tongue in a light socket and suck in all the clear sweet sixty-hertz you wanted, now it's nothing but S7 plasma TVs and light dimmers. This country is going to hell in a handbasket.
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
Wow, this is just the shot in the arm the audiophile cable industry needs, they've been preaching the nebulous benefits of smoother AC power for years. From a quick scan of Music Direct, may I suggest Nordhost Valhalla AC Power Cords ($2,750 each), raised from room boundaries by Cable Elevators ($160 for 8), lightly resting on Shakti "electromagnetic stabilizer stones" ($199 each), plugged into PS Audio P1000 Power Plant regenerators ($3,495 but a steal since each has 10 outlets). Operators are standing by!
(I am a middling audiophile, and believe all those accessories could slightly increase your long-term appreciation of an insanely high-end setup.)
=S
You're continually being bombarded by constantly-changing RF energy. AM, FM, shortwave (which waxes and wanes with atmospheric and solar conditions), public safety and business communications. Cell phones, etc.
And before Marconi was even born, we were STILL being hit with RFI. The universe is full of the stuff. It's why we build radio telescopes.
It's like raindrops falling on the surface of a pond.
Chronic pain that comes and goes without warning, headaches, sensitivity to light, non-restorative sleep, increased chance of depression - this guy should stop buying power filters and get evaluated for fibromyalgia. Other people have this too, and they see chronic pain doctors and get diagnosed and get help and hope that doesn't rest on untested pseudoscience.
I recognize people by their sigs. Is that a bad thing?
Nerve Attenuation Syndrome
Whenever I used my computer for too long, I always became disorientated even though I use a LCD. After a while I noticed that when I turned down the brightness of my monitor my symptons were immediately reduced.
I have gotten the same result from everything emitting artificial light.
Note: I am short-sighted and never wear my glasses
I have heard high-pitch whine from some particularly old/cheap electrical equipment in the past, but not often; however, I still hear a bat's sonar noises at the age of 23; can you hear a bat's sonar?
GrimRC
So would that mean that I am slowly killing my Gamecube by using it in Japan (with their 100V supply) on a US power adaptor? Or that I am slowly killing my DVD player (not portable) that I imported from Japan by using it in the US (with their 120V supply)? I hope that's not the case, that I won't have to re-buy all those electronics after a while because they weren't as well-suited to the electricity as I thought...
OSx86 FTW
I can't say myself whether this hypothesis is True or False (I doubt things are precisely as the interviewee stated), but there is some amount of (admittedly circumstantial) evidence for EM effects on health. http://www.wired.com/news/wireless/0,1382,57488,00 .html was the quickest link I could drag up.
.0000001 watt figure is definitely not. Cell phones, for instance, are around the 1 watt range (http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6602_7-5020357-1.htm l?tag=nav has various SARs, which is decently close to raw wattage numbers)
Aside from what facts are known, though, I don't believe your arguments speak directly to the issue at hand, that *in theory* household EM fields could negatively impact health.
1. If it were true you'd expect stronger fields to make a bigger effect than miniscule ones.
2. Therefore driving past a 500,000 watt radio or TV transmitting antenna should cause much much much greater symptoms than a 0.0000001 watt emissions from "dirty power". No such effect.
Three responses:
1. A one-time exposure to a high-wattage transmission tower is qualitatively different from chronic exposure to EM fields.
2. Your 500,000 watt figure for radio stations is on the absolute high end (afaik only WBCT-FM is allowed that figure under certain circumstances) but valid; your
3. Intensity varies inversely with the square of the distance (or cube of the distance, roughly, if there are many absorbtive materials between you and the transmission). This quickly minimizes exposure from transmission towers but does little for chronic EM exposure in a home.
3. People that are exposed to high EM fields, such as airport workers, tower light replacers, cell site testers, plasma physicists, industrial RF welders, TV technicians, walkie-talkie testers, they should all be really sick. Like 100,000 time ssicker than the average Joe or Jane Doe. They're not.
These hypothesized negative reactions to EM fields are statistical. Consider that it took quite a long while to gather enough evidence to prove that smoking is quite unhealthy.
4. At the neurological level, the voltage spikes from your nerves are 1,000's of times a bigger EM field than anything from outside your body. It's hard to imagine how a signal that's much weaker than your nerve impulses can have a noticeable effect.
Nobody knows how EM fields affect the body-- but there are plenty of solid, scientific ways that they *could*. One way is through catalyzing reactions involving iron via oscillating EM fields (and hey, there's a whole field emerging in chemistry that specializes in this). Another is by imparting vibrational, rotational, or other types of energy to molecules, which could lead to changes in protein shape.
5. EM fields includes light, particularly sunlight. Sunlight hits you with almost 1,000 watts per square meter, many powers of ten greater than any other EM field, and most people think sunlight feels *good*, not bad.
Sunlight's energy distribution (and, speaking to the point made in the article, lack of oscillation) is completely different than that of man-made EM fields. Earth's atmosphere and magnetic field significantly filters anything that makes it down to us.
There's no basic theoretical problem with the concept of statistically hazardous EM fields. It's definitely worth looking into, all things considered.
RD
Here's a link to a recent (Oct 2005)UK Govt report entitled "Definition, Epidemiology and Management of Electrical Sensitivity"
r pd_reports/2005/hpa_rpd_010.pdf
http://www.hpa.org.uk/radiation/publications/hpa_
Broadly this concludes that while there is no conclusive evidence for electrical sensitivity, it leaves open the possibility that it does exist.
I believe it's fairly well established experimentally that cell chemistry is affected by radio spectrum EMF, but the argument appears to be that this effect does not scale up in large organisms.
Right, by a huge factor, in favor of high fields causing 10^9 times more damage. There are darn few places where weaker influences cause biggger effects. I can't think of one.
>2. Your 500,000 watt figure for radio stations is on the absolute high end (afaik only WBCT-FM is allowed that figure under certain circumstances) but valid; your .0000001 watt figure is definitely not. Cell phones, for instance, are around the 1 watt range (http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6602_7-5020357-1.htm l?tag=nav has various SARs, which is decently close to raw wattage numbers)
The original article was talking abotu "dirty power" as a source of EM fields. 0.0000001 watts is a pretty good ballpark guess on the "dirty power" that could get coupled to the human body, even if you wrapped yourself with a 500ft extension cord plugged into an outlet next to an arcwelder.
3. Intensity varies inversely with the square of the distance. This quickly minimizes exposure from transmission towers but does little for chronic EM exposure in a home.
My father worked in an office building literally in the shadow of several 100,000 watt TV transmitter antennas. The local high school is across the street from the same antennas. At home we lived for decades under a mile away from a 50,000 watt AM station antenna. Globally, there's at least three billion people living within inches of dirty power, radio stations, and cell phones. No noticeable awful patches of gargling deaths reported yet. In fact life expectancy is going UP all around the globe.
>These hypothesized negative reactions to EM fields are statistical. Consider that it took quite a long while to gather enough evidence to prove that smoking is quite unhealthy.
Er, no. I think the smoking reports go back to about 1912 or so. Mark Twain writes about the dammnable habit circa 1850. You seem to think statistical is a bad thing. It's the only way to get at causes... wishful thinking isnt noticeably better.
4. At the neurological level, the voltage spikes from your nerves are 1,000's of times a bigger EM field than anything from outside your body. It's hard to imagine how a signal that's much weaker than your nerve impulses can have a noticeable effect.
Nobody knows how EM fields affect the body--
Er, it's been studied since the time of Senor Volta, about 250 years or so.
Sunlight's energy distribution (and, speaking to the point made in the article, lack of oscillation) is completely different than that of man-made EM fields.
Again you have a really hard job trying to explain a mechanism where sunlight, being 10^6 times more intense, AND 10^8 times more energetic PER PHOTON than "dirty power" or "cell phones", AND 10^3 times poorer at coupling to human tissue, how those influences can be 10^6, 10^8, or combined, 10^17 times weaker, and they can still cause problems that the 10^17 times stronger stimulus cannot.