Slashdot Mirror
Sony More Trustworthy Than Microsoft
DesertBlade writes "Forrester Research examined the trust that American households place in PC and consumer electronics. Sony, Dell and Bose all recieved a ranking of A+ while Microsoft recieved a C (I know most of you would say it is closer to a F). "Microsoft faces big consumer defection risk. One measure of consumers' dissatisfaction with Microsoft is seen in the 5.4 million households that give it a brand trust score of 1 [distrust a lot] or 2 [distrust a bit]. Compared with all Microsoft users, these at-risk users have higher income, are much more likely to be male, and are bigger online spenders.(see endnote 7) These households know they run Microsoft software but would be just as happy to leave it behind -- if they could." Does Microsoft face that big of a risk?"
I must say, I'm shocked, with all my personal experiances with them.
Yep, I trust Sony. That's why I don't mind them installing a rootkit on my computer.
Behind Dell, Gateway (?), IBM (!?)--who at home aspires to buy something from IBM?
I don't much care for Sony nor Microsoft, but that distrust sort of falls by the wayside whenever the next Halo* comes out (or whatever your franchise of choice is). We tend to go with the evil we know and purchase as if we had no choice, even those of us that really ought to know better.
*Mock away. I like what I like. And more importantly, my wife likes it.
Too bad the Pippin bombed hard.
Anyway, its all 'Brand Potential' and 'Brand Trust' so its all tainted with the marketing veneer of bullshit. I've never worked out how marketeers can get away with 'statistics' that have so many holes they look like a lace dress - but a scientist delivers statistically valid climate data and 'there is too much uncertainty'.
We have a sick society
Neither of which earned my trust truth be told.
Sony is obvious, but Dell, besides the lack of quality in certain parts (which could be directly correlated to cheap prices), loads their new computers with tons of bloatware - you have to sit there and remove programs for an hour to get the speed you expect from your new computer and then still, remnants are left.
This might be standard among the big boys in the PC industry, but last time I got a Mac - I was pretty amazed by the lack of crap (wonders if that will change with Jobs being part-owner of Disney)....
oh if only there were a way!
$META_SIG_JOKE
I think a C for Microsoft is just about right. They're a victim of their success, but it's a devil I know. Sony. They do the occasionally bat-shit insane thing. Rootkits, crazy crazy DRM, and all kinds of internal struggles. They've got Microsofts problems in addition to various factions being in competition with each other, some of those factions are competely ambivalent to the experience they offer the customer, and no surprise those are the high margin factions which frequently find themselves at the mercy of the volitile market they seek to dominate not understand. It's just impossible to know the devil that is Sony. If their new CEO can't get a handle on things, they're the one's in deep shit.
As it is now, Linux/BSD and Macs lag behind on games, and Linux on desktop speed. Both have some form of compatibility problems, and Macs are expensive. As it is, Windows is the only choice a lot of people have.
By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
http://www.mustseeblog.com/?p=41
Well, they haven't exactly blown away the home computer market.
SEO Firefox Extension
Well yes, standards have dropped but Microsoft is still microsoft. Software that is barely Beta is a production release, and it's everyone now. Sony, notwithstanding rootkits, is still better than MS. Mainly because MS defines the pits in standards technical, social and ethical. The rest of the industry has benefited from this lowering of the bar, Sun is a "major OSS contributor" and produces "bullet proof" systems, IBM has become the "good guys", Apple have their fanatical following and RDF even though they have done little more than minorly refine the GUI concept (iPods are not computers, as such) and have done everything in their power to emulate MS.
The Apple Car: looks great, but you need to buy a new engine every year......
I disagree (that MS is closer to an 'F').
Microsoft is the ultimate 'C'. They have built an empire on being just good enough. I mean, a *lot* of very useful work is done on windows the world over, it can't be classified as an abject failure.... but man, it sure is lackluster.
Yup. The very pinnacle of mediocrity. That's the microsoft way.
These 5.4 M out of 300 M are not going to Linux, even "if they could", or they already would.
They still have tremendous inertia in the marketplace. How long has it taken for the general public to have the same perception of Microsoft as a typical /.er? The biggest problem is that Microsoft has gotten people to believe that computers are inherently unreliable, unstable, and buggy - so that people EXPECT such behavior from any computer, not just one with a Microsoft OS or application software on it. As long as a large number of people expect crappily behaving computers, Microsoft's position is secure. In a similar manner, Microsoft has acclimated the business world to the idea that a standalone PC is incomplete without anti-virus, anti-spyware addons and a dedicated IT staff to maintain them.
On the other hand, businesses tend to hold onto computers and custom/favorite apps much longer than individuals do. Apple may have a shot of displacing Windows from household computers, as many people become more savvy about what they need a computer for, which can usually be covered by web browsing, email, document reading, picture viewing, video watching, and music listening, and are willing to pay a bit so they don't have to constantly tinker with their systems. I think replacing Microsoft in the enterprise world will be much harder.
The whole damned report is biased. It's like a Slashdot poll!! Only yuppies by Bose. It's the names the average joe hardly knows that sound best. Klipsch, Energy, Definitive Technologies, A&R, Sunfire, and too many others to even mention. /rant - Just had to sound off
Exactly what I've always thought - allthough I think Apple could blow away any market it chooses to enter.
To put this another way:
Apple chooses to enter only those markets it can blow away.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
S. Jobs would never allow sub-par 3rd party software in a default install of OS X. In fact, Apple as a whole has never allowed sub-par 3rd party software on the Mac. Anytime there is bundled 3rd party software, it is always best-of-class. Jobs, and mostly the company's ethic as a whole, just has too much taste and sense to ruin the user experience with crappy 3rd party software. That would be like a high-end Mercedes shipping with Firestone tires...
"I like systems, their application excepted", George Sand (French)
Not as long as most people are poor and stupid!
Being trustworthy is not the same as being trusted. Some companies are not worthy of trust, but recieve it due to the ignorance of consumers (and vice versa).
If MS didn't assimilate everything under the sun and instead took a more friendly 'partnership' approach to innovating companies they probably wouldn't garner this image. The thing I dislike the most is how they can't seem to slow down and perfect XP and its security issues - they just HAVE to have a copycat to OSX asap. pfffft. People are getting tired of forced upgrades when the existing OS is just fine and dandy.
"To err is human, to mod Funny divine."
I find these types of surveys useless. I've been running on the same install of winxp for the last two years. I've had no serious viruse and a little bit of malware. I don't find that the system runs any slower then it did the first day, although I'm sure it is, and I would give winXP, from my experience, a B. Having said that. My friends, who incidentally are in the same computer program as me and thus have the same technical know how, are constantly complaining about windows, how slow and crappy it is. I quite frankly don't know what their problem is. So saying that M$ should recieve a C is pointless, because if they asked people like me about it instead of people like my friends then they would do better then a C.
They don't even have to fuck up the technology that much. I mean look at the delayed Vista, its been five years and no one has been able to touch them. Microsoft knows that. That is why their software really only has to *just* work and *just* be useable enough. Their domination is based on that amazing business model they are in, nothing else.
The question is what are YOU going to do about it ? Are you going to keep paying the fee ? If you're an OS maker, are you going to work, not only on the technology, but on the all important business relationships, including working on disrupting MS's relationships ?
Exactly what I've always thought - allthough I think Apple could blow away any market it chooses to enter. ... as long as the market is "portable music players".
Or did I enter a weird alternate reality where there's a Pippin in every living room?
Agreed. I'm sure the main reason for the numbers favouring Sony over Microsoft is the fact that non-techies don't understand the phrase "rootkit", but they do understand the phrase "fuck, it broke".
Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.
I think it would be useful to provide our views on various companies, as a sort-of Slashdot corporate barometer:
Companies that can do no wrong:
Companines that can do no right:
Companies that are currently back in the fold:
Companies where there's a question-mark over our allegience:
I can't think of any strong collective slashdot feelings towards other companies - although, of course, there are plenty of individuals with a beef against particular companies (e.g. that sorehands guy who really didn't like Mattell). Am I missing any?
We're talking trust here, not quality, bells and whistles.
If Sony's CEO says it's ok to have back door and resource eating spyware on your PC installed by music CD-s, since "you don't what it is therefore why care", they get A+.
Should I comment further at all?
Also, Microsoft will also get C or less, a trend started by tech geeks, Maccies and Linux fans, everyone loves to hate big corporations. A trend like this is hard to reverse even Microsoft turned perfect by tommorow. A bias is obvious even on this site.
I wonder now how I'll be modded. It's fashionable to rant on Sony for their rootkits, but totally uncool to defend Microsoft.
Damn proles always throw surveys (and elections) out of whack.
You forgot google!
J.
As big a risk as Microsoft losing it's monopoly anytime soon.
** User reads article title: "Sony More Trustworthy Than Microsoft"
** User happy level += 200
** User sees he has 20 slash mod points
** User quickly scans the comments and mods down anyone who defends Microsoft
** User quickly scans the comments and mods up anyone who bashes Microsoft
** User feeling of accomplishment +=100
** User gets bored and goes to check how the Fedora distro downloads are proceeding
Logged by GeekMind Reader DEMO
...about as far as I can throw them. There was a time when I thought their software was easy to use and learn stuff with, right around the Win98, Office 97, Visual Studio 6 days. I found the interfaces simple, usable, and didn't get in my way. Of course, this was all when I first started learning about computers and how to write software, so all of this was a new experience for me.
But as new versions came out, the interfaces got clunky and bloated, with features I didn't need, and the software felt less reliable, got in my way more, and generally irritated me. Meanwhile, Microsoft was stretching out and developing new software for other areas of the software market. And it seems like the more products they try to make, the worse the general quality becomes.
And then of course, I learned about all of the anti-competitive practices they had used to get to their current market position. FUD tactics, OEM discounts for using their products, using their Windows monopoly to give an advantage to their other software. Bleh.
So why should I trust anything from Microsoft? They're not focused on getting solid reliable products out to the customer. They're only trying to shove their way into any market they can and push everyone else out. Should I trust a company with that kind of motives?
Respect the laws of physics, for the laws of physics have no respect for you.
This helps enforce my personal theory that the same consumers who
have enough knowledge on a given subject to add something of
value to a survey, are the same folks intelligent enough to
opt out of responding to marketing surveys.
D'oh! Yes, I forgot Google. Pre-IPO, they would have been a shoe-in for the "can do no wrong" category, but recent issues over censorship and privacy means that their position there is a little tenuous. I guess overall though, we still love Google, don't we?
I'm no huge Dell fan, but they do what they do well--they sell computers for cheap. But Bose, and to a lesser extent Sony, pretty much base their business on being overrated. Bose would go out of business if it sold its products on their merits, and Sony would certainly get a run for their money from many other competitors who currently have a much smaller marketshare.
English is easier said than done.
Sure. Beheading is also less painful than hanging. Still, neither is something I would consider painless.
The comparative degree is a wonderful construct in language. Because it only compares 2 items and measures them relative to each other but doesn't say anything about their absolute values. And not always, if even often, the comparative degree is "better" than the positiv degree.
Example:
How're you feeling?
Well, I'm doing better.
Would you consider this information that he's doing "better" to be superior to feeling "good"? Well, I feel, when someone's saying he's doing "better" it means he's not even yet feeling "good".
So yes, Sony might be "more trustworthy" than MS. But both of them are far from "trustworthy" by itself.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Cynics will notice that the headline is logically equivalent to "Microsoft even Less Trustworthy Than Sony"
You can't easily hate Microsoft, because whether you like them or not, at some point you actually have to use their products. Sony, though, Sony is easy to boycott. Sony you can boycott, and loudly proclaim your boycott, without having to really expend any effort or make any personal sacrifices on your part.
Does it count as a boycott if you use a product without paying for it?
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Actually, that's a fairly standard business practice: don't enter markets you have no chance of success in. Maxim
Or to spin it a different way: Microsoft less trustworthy than Sony. :)
Get your own free personal location tracker
Remember when Apple entered that market. They did blow it away in 1975.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Microsoft on the other hand freakin gets slammed every 5 minutes by a different media source, small and large. For crying out loud, Slashdot simply scoffs and says "ANOTHER security update? Dupe!" when theres a new security alert. Of course customers/consumers are going to be paranoid of them.
Heck just look at the different responses between the rootkit fiasco and government reaction to Windows. Sony gets off with a slap on the wrist and a few reports on the major news networks. Microsoft on the other hand gets dragged into court for YEARS, gets sued in MULTIPLE countries, its basicly told to butcher its own work only to have consumers ignore the hack job versions AND it gets threatened AGAIN when they try to ship a new version of Windows with anti-virus software. Which of the two do you think is going to be more popular even for the educated, news following, tech savvy person?
I don't like Microsoft as much as anyone else (Goddamnit Microsoft quit spreading yourself out and focus on a product line so they're all not crappy half-done pieces of work) but saying Microsoft is pure crap compared to Sony is like saying a terrorist is SO MUCH worse than a murderer. They both kill people, the only difference is one gets a wider, and thus worse, reputation for his actions.
I find it ironic that Microsoft's core business is software which is probably what the grade is based on. It's ironic because hardware is one area which they have actually had quite a good track record. They make very VERY good keyboards and mice. I never hesitate to get one when I need a replacement. Their fingerprint reader works pretty well. And until they stopped selling it, their 802.11b wireless routers were some of the very few on the market that even my mother could setup and worked quite reliably. I honestly wonder why they haven't gone deeper into the hardware market. Maybe even into...dare I say it?...computers. Most of the problems with Windows seem to come from the fact that they have to deal with a nearly endless array of hardware in near infinite combinations running random amounts and types of software. If they were able to design a reference computer, I actually think there's a good chance it would run pretty well. It seems to me that they ought to be headed towards the same ground that Apple now occupies. Just my $0.02.
"The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well."
Uh ... it was Apple that really kick started the whole personal computing market. They dropped the ball, but they were arguably the major driver that got it all rolling.
... so in a very real sense, they did in fact blow away the whole home computer market. In both meanings of the phrase.
The fact that Microsoft reaped the benefits has more to do with Apple not making the right moves than anything else
I have considered building and selling my own PCs, so that when clients tell me they're looking for a new PC and ask me who I recommend, I can offer to sell them something good, because I really haven't seen a major OEM I can recommend in good faith.
Go for it. In fact, I strongly recommend that you do so! Put together PCs from OEM parts. (hint: MA Labs is a GREAT distributor) It takes a $1 screwdriver, a power outlet, about 15 Sq Ft of counter space, and a 3-day prepay for parts. In the US, give yourself at least $100-$200 in margin. (it's not about percentage of markup, it's about absolute value, because it usually takes the same amount of time to build/support a cheap-o PC as an expensive one) And, make sure you charge a reasonable fee for additional services. Your time is money, after all!
You'll probably make out on your very first sale. Wash, rinse, repeat, and in just a few years, with some hard work, you'll have your own bona-fide business. Then, you'll be an executive, a notable in your community, and you can join the ranks of CEOs and business owners all over the country who write off their vehicles, and pay others to punctually open the store at 9:00 AM while you saunter in around noon. You can complain about high taxes, the cost of insurance, and the IRS, while sitting at the airport waiting for the mechanic to inspect the airplane you're considering purchasing.
It really is that simple! It's the path I've travelled, and it was well worth it... (and yes, I'm about to buy an airplane)
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
Remember when Apple entered that market. They did blow it away in 1975.
Oh come now! With what, a handful os Lisa's? I think not! There was no real home computer market in 1975!!
And, even if that where the case, where is that dominance now? I think that was the point of the original posters comment.
I am not Mac bashing here, just pointing out the obivous, they only have a very small hold on the home computer market...
Here are some annotations to the comments of ideonode.
Companies that can do no wrong:
* Apple Remember "look and feel".
Companines that can do no right:
* Microsoft The scroll wheel may be okay.
* SCO unix
I can't think of any strong collective slashdot feelings towards other companies
I sometimes hear google mentioned on slashdot.
Yet people trust Dell and Gateway, which only really sell computers with Microsoft software installed on them. Why wouldn't their ratings be dragged down with Microsoft? In fact Dell appears to be the 3rd most trusted brand there.
I suspect the fact that people never had to choose for themselves to buy a Microsoft product is a big part of why they aren't inclined to say they trust them.
I think people are more likely to say they trust something after they made the conscious decision to go with it so that they'll feel better about their decision.
The survey seems to induce a little bias among the choices. It is a little inexplicable.
1. All companies except MS is there for thier hardware products.
2. How many people know that MS makes hardware? Wouldn't this automatically align his/her mind to think in terms of quality of hardware? (Oh... Microsoft, I don't have any MS gadget. They should suck, I dont even know them!)
3. If the trust is so low, why did MS still have the most profitable quarter ever last month?
4. MS hardware tend to be of very high quality, say what you will about the software.
Life is just a conviction.
There's still the games - as you mention yourself the big game developers doesn't make games for Linux.
As far as I'm concerned that's the only reason to keep Windows.
Well, they haven't exactly blown away the home computer market.
That depends on how you define what 'blowing away a market' means. If you mean 'blow away'='monopolize' then no, they haven't. If, however, you also include factors like product quality and innovation then things look somewhat different. The Ohhhs and Ahhhs coming from the computer press every time Microsoft releases a new iteration of Windows are usually quite modest compared to the headlines you get when Apple does the same. I wonder if the splash surrounding the debut of Windows Vista (when it finally materializes out of it's cloud of vapor) and all it's new features will manage to equal that you got when Apple releasesed, say, OS.X 10.3 or 10.4 or even the iPod nano. We'll have to wait and see...
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
It amazes me technology companies don't truly understand how important brand trust is.
This is not your grandfather's brand survey. Trust is the whole ball game now. And having the most consumer trust is going to be the key to being the leader in the next few decades. Trust has, never, ever, been more important.
Allow me to explain my reasoning...
As we enter an age where our devises are always connected, and we have to accept automatic "updates" to properly use our products, who you buy from and that company's integrity is going to matter more and more. So much so, it will become a deciding factor in who leads the tech industry in the future.
I think of Tivo as the perfect example of this Brave New World and the problems with tech companies not being smarter about brand trust.
I bought my Tivo to skip advertisements and control when I watch my shows. Both of those features were the brand promise from Tivo.
I loved my Tivo. I sold dozens and dozens to my friends by raving about them.
Now, a couple of years later, I am slowly getting more and more screwed by Tivo. For the device to keep working, it needs to update nightly, and yet I have no control over what new functionality gets downloaded along with the programs listings.
So now, Tivo is putting more, not less advertisements on my TV experience since they need the money. And soon, they will take away my control over what I can record and how long the recordings stay on my Tivo. (Sure, I know this is the will of the media companies, but that doesn't matter to me since it was Tivo who got $800 of my money on the original brand promise.)
Accordingly, Tivo is dead to me. The second a comparable product comes out, I'm gone. They had a loyal customer. A raving fan. But I simply cannot trust them any more.
And therein lies the rub, and why I think brand trustworthiness is going to be up there with innovation as the driver of greatness in the next couple of decades.
The companies who fight for their customers, protect their rights and privacy, provide openness and choice, and do not pull scum bag moves because the company needs/wants more money, will win.
In the age of DRM, automatic updating of products, and massive databases tracking everything you do, the company that has the most trust will win.
Mark my words...
Some of that might have been true in 1998. Linux today offers speed, games, compatibility and system stability Bill Gates can only envy.
Linux desktops have always been faster on the same hardware than Microsoft but this is much more true today. Shared code really does make a difference in memory usage. This is impossible in the non free world and every program has to do almost everything for itself or risk breakage.
Games are now about as easy on Linux as they are on Microsoft. Free audio and video subsystems have gotten much better and now rival their non free counterparts. Free audio subsystems, indeed, are better at sharing devices than Microsoft's. If the free video subsystems just don't do it for you, Nvidia and ATI have non free ones that will. Don't take my word for it, go install Xandros and play Unreal Tournament. ID games has ported plenty of great titles to Linux and made many of them free, so that you can apt-get them. I can also mention Dosbox, Mame and other software, that run better on Linux than they do on Windoze. The serious gamer is no longer at a loss with free software.
Hardware compatibility? That's some kind of joke, right? The only problem a Linux user has with hardware is with brand new devices. The issues get taken care of and the device then works pretty much forever. In the Windoze world, the user is stuck looking for the "latest" drivers off the internet and might just be out of luck if a few years. Microsoft systems are notoriously brittle. Changing so much as a stick of ram forces you to beg M$ for permission to use their software again. Even when things do work, they are often odd and inconsistent.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Funny that a company known to use/install rootkits is considered more trustworthy than the company which provides the operating system for ~90-95% (?) of the world's desktop computers ^_^
Sony, Dell, and Bose receive A+ ratings? I believe this mainly shows the ignorance of those being polled.
I'd say Sony is *harder* to boycott; I haven't personally used a MS product for years, used or bought, but Sony's also a content provider, hear music in anything, you're going to hear a product of Sony at some stage during your week, let alone the number of Sony components in some electrical devices.
Actually, that's a fairly standard business practice: don't enter markets you have no chance of success in.
Chance of success != blowing away the market. Most companies entering most markets have a rather long-winded battleplan going from a foothold to being a market player. Dominance is somewhere on the tail end that I call "wishful thinking". Certainly this apply to all markets where you're competing on commodity items or technical merits.
Apple's battleplan is quite simple. Find a budding market where the technical solutions are starting to fall in place (iPod was hardly the first MP3 player), push a technically adequate product and blow them away on style, class and userfriendliness. Basicly, change the whole metric of what makes a "good" player.
There's definately a sweet spot there where the existing companies are tech-gadget freaks (otherwise the wouldn't be breaking new ground) and other "brand" companies are too slow on the draw. That narrow window is really one of very few moments in the market's lifecycle where you can "blow the market away".
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
That seems more like the Microsoft car to me, our Macs lasted years (though we used them before all the fancy iMac-y stuff arrived =p then funnily enough switched to x86.. dad was a software developer, developed for Mac and PC, but said that the main market was PCs, so we got one for home.. am I a sellout for not campaigning for a PPC Amiga instead? :p )
which is totally what she said
I guess not, because by that definition, you'd be boycotting the BSDs and Linux as well.... and we all know how much OpenBSD needs coin.
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
Depends how you segment the market. Eliminate the areas where the Mac isn't competing (office desktops) and I bet their market share is remarkable for a system that's more expensive and is in some respects inferior.
Nuff' said.
OMG you fucking americans fucking hate microsoft don't you?!! next thing you know you'll be fining it irrational sums of $$ for being a monopoly and from there on, as everyone knows, it's a straight descent into fascism. OMG OH NOES!!
Japanese products. Sorry, but they do make the best from cars to cheap CD-Rs.
Blame the user, not the software.
The reason Windows is such a success is because A, its more friendly for the non-geeks than Linux. B, computer companies make more money when they sell a windows box (because they can buy the parts bulk, and they can get paid for builing it) than Apple. the only reason i use Windows and don't try and figure out linux is because of the games.
now a little to the left
Learn your history.
They did blow away the home computer market, they just dident know what to do with it once they did that.
And thats when Microsoft took over. With their ideas, naturally.
How many of them qualified what they meant by "trust" - did the survey qualify it?
:)
:)
Trust to produce a quality product?
Trust with your details?
Trust with your life?
Microsoft makes much more visible, complicated products. If you have a bad experience (for instance with a Netgear router) you may say you don't trust that company again and never buy any DIFFERENT products even though faults are unrelated.
Windows is obviously more prone to failure than a pair of noise-cancelling headphones or a MiniDisc player.
And of course when your Sony Vaio explodes, it's Microsoft's fault - right?
EA belongs under "can do no right" They constantly suck up small companies that used to make AWESOME games, take over the popular franchises and drop them down the toilet with a hefy load of diareah. Are there ANY good EA games except maybe some of their console sports games?
I have a brand new dell sitting on the desk next to me. My GF bought it one month ago. I can't hear it at all. Mine, on the other hand, drones on and on in the background.
You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
Maybe not the "home computer" market... but go into just about any successful graphic design/advertising/media production house and you will see macs... everywhere. They're damned fine machines for content creation.
If, however, you also include factors like product quality and innovation then things look somewhat different. The Ohhhs and Ahhhs coming from the computer press every time Microsoft releases a new iteration of Windows are usually quite modest compared to the headlines you get when Apple does the same.
Which is utterly irrelevant - unless you're in the habit of judging a product by the size of its hype cloud. By your measuring stick, for instance, OpenBSD has zero quality and innovation, since there are no 'Ohhhs and Ahhhs coming from the computer press' when a new iteration is launched.
Still, if you meant Apple has blown away the computer market PR then your argument makes perfect sense.
Does it count as a boycott if you use a product without paying for it?
To Microsoft, using their products without paying is better than not using their products at all. One less Apple or Linux user is a win to them, even if they don't get money directly from you. Because you are a still helping create the "everyone needs windows/office/... to communicate" preassure, and some of those using Microsoft products because of that preassure WILL pay for them. Especially companies. Often a company will give "it's what everyone knows" as the reason for buying Microsoft products. And everyone knows because they have an illegal copy at home.
Microsoft knows this. Bill has said himself that a person using Windows without paying is better than one not using Windows at all.
...or when sounding like 'a' as in 'neighbor' and 'weigh.' Perhaps you haven't heard the whole saying? Of course, there are exceptions, like 'weird.'
Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.
Get your facts straight. The Apple][ ofcourse!!!! The Lisa was years later.
When was the last time your VCR or Home Theatre Speakers crashed? Yes they got higher ratings but they don't face the same issues Microsoft does, at least I havent seen an Internet browser on my speakers lately!!
Wouldn't the ball really get rolling *after* they dropped it?
Lalala
First of all, I'm amazed that Sony is considered trustworthy after their rootkit. Guess no-one ever went bankrupt underestimating the public, right?
:)). And the games...kids want their games, and they'll prevent dad from going linux if they can help it.
Secondly, this confirms to me what I've been thinking for a while; now is the time for application and games devs to quit windows and go linux.
The only thing holding most people back from switching is games and that single application which they must use (well, in my case it's maple, matlab and 3dsmax
But Vista is the perfect excuse to finqally get rid of the microsoft tax. MS is untrusted and expensive, linux is 'ready for the desktop'(and has been for years!), and mainstream hardwaremakers have linux drivers. What's needed is for the application makers and game makers to switch...but that's a chicken and egg problem.
-- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
How many of you got a rootkit installed by a Sony CD?
How many of you have played a game on a Playstation or PS2, or use a Vaio laptop? Or owned a walkman/discman?
That's why Sony scored A+. The rootkit fiasco might have been scandalous news, but the number of affected users is negligible compared to those who have had a positive experience with Sony products.
However, the reason why there is so much crap and shoddy service in this world is because Joe Average is too fat, dumb & lazy to actually do anything about it - namely not buying or using the stuff he complains about...
If I was Microsoft, I wouldn't give a damn about how trustworthy Joe Average thinks I am; I'd just keep focusing on making sure my lacklustre products are always installed on any PC he buys because I know well enough that Joe is too damn lazy to change them for anything else.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
So Sony is king. Well, it was the plan, and there they are.
But to rank Dell in the same legue with Bose?
Dr. Bose must be sucking.
Or maybe the Dell name is climbing. For why? Was there something I missed? For certain they didnt ask me.
Oh, oh, wait. I know. It must be the rebates.
But you know, maybe I dont know how to read this chart 'couse the way I see it, Bose is upper right (being good I assume), Sony is down in the dirt with the likes of JVC, Pioneer isnt looking completely bad, and then Microsft is left in the completely polar direction of Bose. But maybe I missunderstand the red dots.
I also dont really understand the Y axis "Brand Potential (Aspiring user minus At-risk Users (millions of households))" interpretation: (You cant understand it anyway so we might as well obscure it enough that you cant figure out what we are talking about) or in other words (trust the red dots).
However I do undersand that Bose is ontop and MS is on the bottom. Everything else fits in between.
Its a good scale.
I would generally trust this report, its findings are clearly stated and it seems to have a firm deathgrip on reality. If you of the mind that such claims as this should be open for peer reveiew you will find that this is not the case, Bose in on top and Microsoft is clearly, without doubt, on the bottom. Its sort of like a built in proof. There is no need to explain.
Oh, umm, I did try to RTFA, but about 3/4 of the way through I realized it was a lot of words from someone who knew nothing of the original study and he had nothing further to add but more bias. So I stopped.
You can blaim me if you like, I wont take offense. But really, are we really reduced to the stature of sheep? Or have we always been there?
I think you underestimate just how much I just dont care.
I don't think the feeling is that Nintendo can do no wrong - more that they really haven't. Bar the whole Tetris thing (which is decades old now) they are an honest company with an emphasis on new ideas rather than just cranking up the performance of their consoles, which makes them pretty unique.
Microsoft faces big consumer defection risk
I don't like that word, defection. Kind of feels like running away from an obligation - an army of helpless users attached to windoze machines with Ballmer storming across the field:
"Switch those boxes on, you FOOLS"
It's probably a normal business term, but who likes business majors anyway.
GATES: Your Internet ad was brought to my attention, but I can't figure out what, if anything, CompuGlobalHyperMegaNet does, so rather than risk competing with you, I've decided simply to buy you out.
HOMER: I reluctantly accept your proposal!
GATES: Well everyone always does. Buy 'em out, boys!
Agreed. I'm sure the main reason for the numbers favouring Sony over Microsoft is the fact that non-techies don't understand the phrase "rootkit", but they do understand the phrase "fuck, it broke".
You can be a customer of Sony Electronics, without ever touching a Sony Music product. Which means there are a lot of non-techies who have no reason to have heard of a rootkit, because it didn't come on their Trinitron.
On the other hand, a non-techie would be hard pressed to buy a PC without Windows (Mac notwithstanding.)
Aargh! I before E except after C! Received. Not recieved.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Because most people are far too lazy to do any research into expensive products that they buy, they much prefer having an easy life and just throwing money at some company who they believe will deliver them a good product or service.
This is not to say, necessarily, that Sony produces bad products - but, let's face it, circuit boards for consumer electronics, for example, are just about all manufactured in Taiwan now and probably go in equal share into Sony products & the products of countless lesser known brands of goods. Consequently, Sony can spend more on marketing than, say, LG and recoup that marketing expenditure (plus additional profits) purely by putting a Sony badge on a box and charging a premium for it - whilst LG sell a similar quality/designed product for 2/3 of the cost.
The same is true for clothing & sports shoes which are all made in Far East/Phillipino sweat shops anyway whether they get sold in Gap or the local supermarket.
So my core point is that there is absolutely nothing commonsense about brand loyalty - it's purely about taking advantage of consumer laziness & unwillingness to do some research before parting with money.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
I found Ubuntu easy to install too, but rather dislike the fact that you can't just download application installers, just click install (maybe give a destination, and wether shortcuts), run the install. And then use the application. Often even the windows version of the same app is that easy to install, oh why wouldnt the linux app be!!! Also, the documentation that is automatically installed along could be more extensive.
Ok must admit, have not much experience with Ubuntu a lot yet. Found out you have to be root before you can do some stuff. Besides that I am pretty impressed with Ubuntu, but easy installation of stuff is critical, and should be a goal for any project making a application that is not called a beta.
Usually when you compare two companies, they both offer the same or similar service/product. However, they are two totally different companies with different user bases.
/. people that hate Windows but like the Xbox.
If we start with the title of Sony being better then Microsoft, that directly implies that they are comparing the gaming systems they offer. What would be the other reason to state that Sony ranks better then MS?
Now, if we look at what each company offers (high level overview), we really see that they can not be compared.
Microsoft offers:
-OS(Windows)
-Games
-XBox
Sony offers:
-PlayStation
-Games
-Consumer and professional electronics
-Music
Now, if you were to survey someone on how they ranked Sony and did not tell them to filter their thoughts, the results would be all over the board from a survey pool.
I love Sony video products but hate their audio products along with their music division (Sony BMG). I do not like the PlayStation and their games are alright. As for MS, I like Windows, love the Xbox and their games are alright.
I'm sure there are some
Nah, Microsoft don't make music players which are bricked after a year due to the (non user replacable) battery.
With Microsoft, they'd just force you to upgrade the entire car every two years.
Wetehr or not consumers trust Microsoft is irrelevant to the buying decision - at least for most PC buyers. Microsft's products are defacto standards in the marketplace which gives them a hugh advantage over the competion. People buy what is on the shelf - and in retail it's mostly MS Windows based PCs' at a wide range of proce points that reach the broadest range of consumers. What other choices are there?
Apple - great product but there is no low end machine to compete with cheap Windows boxes; the Mac Mini starts at $600 and you still need to add a keyboard and mouse
Liniux - virtualy no one sells it at retail and besides most consumers don't want to have to search for programs after they buy; and there's no Linux boxed games etc (to compete for mindshare)showing up on shelves to give retailers an incnetive to sell cheap low margin Linux boxes hoping to sell higher margin software to go with it.
Low trust will have no impact on MS' OS or software sales; but it will hurt them as they move to more comeptitive areas and start bumping up against Google (search); Sony / Apple (digital music); etc where the purchasing decsion is more intangable and teh consumer has choices.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Consumers actually believe that Bose puts out a good product. Ack! If they only knew of the cheap paper cones they've been spending small fortunes for. Their instore demo department puts more work into making their speakers sound good than speaker engineers do.
Wise men say, "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
Hmmmm.... the report actually refutes this. It states...
Microsoft, Sony, Panasonic, And HP Have The Highest Brand Adoption
Nooooo... Apple my friend.
Apple's doesn't actually dominate in many markets at all. Off the top of my head I would say it's dominance would be limited to that of graphic arts, video post production, and of course most recently in walkman devices through it's IPOD range. Whilst I can see it's domination of the (tiny) graphical arts market continuing for some time to come... I think it's IPOD market is extremely short lived. Who is going to buy an IPOD when every mobile phone on the market supplies equivalent functions ?
Apple is the master of blowing away markets... and then blowing it's markets.
Whilst their music division may have had their root kit "blip", generally they have been pretty trustworthy, even the rootkit issue, some people are taking totally out of context, and based on their comments, they obviosly did not even suffer from it. Microsoft on the other hand, I wouldn't trust at all... They have had dodgy practices going on for years...
For one thing, Sony does not know how to make buttons. If a Sony product has a button on it, it will eventually stop working properly. My Sony "Trinitron" TV's remote long ago bit the big one - the buttons work intermittently at the very best. In addition the power light on the TV is intermittent. Also the picture is slightly distorted and the color is uneven and always has been. My Sony stereo receiver acquired a loud buzzing noise far too early in its life. I replaced it with a cheap Kenwood that has proven far more reliable, still going strong years later. Etc, etc. I, for one, have no trust whatsoever in Sony products. They are all crap as far as I can tell and it boggles my mind that they have such a good reputation. My experience, at least, has been pretty much the polar opposite.
--- What?
I run solely Ubuntu these days and I can't claim for a moment that I never see any problems since switching from Windows. Example: the (not even offically supported as far as I could tell) upgrade from Hoary to Breezy left me unable to start the regular login app. Sure, I could fix it by searching a few forums and finding some helpful replies, but you can't expect regular users to do that kind of thing! And lets not mention the recent logging root password fiasco...
Software has bugs, and it's by no means only MS to blame. The day we all write everything using 100% formal methods maybe that will change, but I sure don't want to be a coder in that world...
oh you're talking about iPods, I guess I still think of Apple primarily for their computers =p
.. hmm maybe I should just shutup and go try VMWare or something (the thing I want most out of my machine these days is to be able to play San Andreas in Linux =p never want to boot into XP again on my desktop at home..)
It just seems like a massive shift from being primarily a computer manufacturer, to being seen as the leader in mobile entertainment - isn't such a big deal for companies like HP or Creative that make general purpose PC equipment (and I in fact bought an original iRiver as I considered it better than the original iPod), but for a company like Apple that does all their own custom hardware and software and have such a strong brand image, I still can't work out how on earth they pulled it off =p it's good that Apple will be experiencing a halo effect in their machines, but since Apple users are just seen as airheads or people just trying to be cool now, I actually have less of an incline to use them (our family used to have an Apple Classic, and after that a Quadra I think it was, and I had an old PowerBook 340 for a while).
Now they have switched to x86 it kind of feels like they are selling out - but it's interesting to just think of an OS or computer to be CPU independent, and that it's more the ethos of the thing, rather than what it's running on, that matters. Hopefully having Apple on the x86 platform will spur on developers to make their game code slightly more portable, and be able to develop Linux versions of software alongside OSX ones etc, and in turn if developers write more portable code, then we'll be much more able to switch away from x86 to a better architecture (I've always just thought of x86 as crappy ever since my MC68k days, sorry =p)
For a while I've not really liked how the computing world has become all about the internet and making everything more homologous (basically because I find coding Java / web pages so very very dull compared to developing something like a standalone OpenGL application), it is pretty cool how it's mattering less and less what OS/type of machine you run (be it a proprietary mobile device, mass produced laptop, Apple desktop). Ideas like running old apps through emulation have been around for a long time (first good example I can think of was the move from 68k to PPC for Macs), but these days it's becoming really standard even in consoles, and once again with Apple for OS X86 =p
which is totally what she said
"I must say, I'm shocked, with all my personal experiances with them.". Well it must had an effect on him poor guy cant spell experiences...
I thing the poster was refering that you have to buy "major" new releases of OS X. If you own ONE mac, it is a little steep. If you own multiples, it's not bad do to the availability of the "family pack". If you are REALLY cheap, apple doesn't have any DRM / activation crap so you can grab a copy from a friend (which is of course not legal.)
It wouldn't be an issue except that apple stops supporting (no updates) older releases of OS X. The last security update for 10.2 was in December 2004 for example. Panther (10.3) still has some updates, but I wouldn't expect that to continue for much longer. Furthermore, You can't get a new version of Safari for Panther as another example (other than security fixes.) Some people compare OS X major releases to Win 2K / XP which was for all practical purposes an eye-candy release with a few minor new features.
Personally, if I pay a premium for the hardware, I have a hard time constantly paying for OS updates too. It's definately a high initial-cost system. On the other hand, you are free of the Windows malware issue which reduces TCO significantly (hard to put exact costs on that.)
What's wrong with the headline? According to the study, these are the companies that consumers thought were most worthy of their trust.
They have the captive market. As long as people are hooked to windows and office, M$ won't even care to look at the customer sat numbers. If your installed base is not shrinking, they are satisfied, right?
Its all in the way the "survey" was done. The way the questions were asked, who was asked, when they were asked. There are liars, damm liars and statisticians.
Hmm I didnt know of that, though thinking about it, Mac did have a lot of OS updated pre-10 also - the good thing would be that the eye candy shouldnt make a difference to your apps though, presumably? I would also prefer to spend my money on the hardware. Malware shouldn't be an issue with a properly designed OS, I don't think it should have to be an excuse to switch from Windows, as there were enough in the first place, but it is the last straw in a lot of cases I guess. Now if people only were aware that there is a choice
which is totally what she said
Buy me a new scanner, or find me a driver for my existing Microtek Scanmaker 4850 flatbed scanner, and I might be able to afford to switch.
I've found package management systems like apt-get and emerge to be incredibly easy and pleasant to use compared to the hassle of various downloads and "install wizards" that you deal with on Windows.
Do these package managers allow 100% graphical installation from CD? Or do they allow installing only free (as in at least beer) software from the Internet, which doesn't necessarily work on dial-up or with special-purpose proprietary commercial software?
-Eric
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
All the companies mentioned have put out their share of crap. Just the same, each of them has put out at least ONE decent product as well. Really though, the article is all about consumer brand preferences, and isnt a fair measure of quality. (BOSE for example) Myself I like Sony, and I dont buy CD's so that whole rootkit thing hasn't bothered me. Just the same, I have had a few junky Sony products. (How about a Clie that only does about half of what it says it can on the box, or a discman that begins playing cds at about half-speed two weeks after the warranty is out.) Best strategy. Look at the product in-store if possible. Never buy something you cant return, and examine every feature, every structural component. How many of you have ever resorted to using electrical tape to hold your remote control batteries in? Guess what, the one you bought wasn't built to last, just look pretty.
I'll agree with you on the hype cloud. The latest console war is a good example of that. But it isn't just hype much of the time. When a new version of OSX comes out you hear a lot of people actually discussing the exciting new features. Expose, Automator, Dashboard... these are new things that people find interesting and innovative. When most people discuss windows, it's in the essense of "it's there".
MS lost that spark after Windows 95 and has nearly gone into maintanence mode since. They had a chance to really capture the imagination of the computer market again, but instead we're getting Windows XP2. The fact that with every release people tend to talk more about where icons moved on the control panel than anything else is telling of the progression of windows.
As far as I can throw the SOB back across the Pacific to Japan.
First rule of holes; When in one, stop digging.
Blogging (and networking sites) both appear to fads, and I have still found very few blogs I read regular. There's one great blog of a friend but she rarely posts and when she does, it's useful and interesting. Then, there's the Google blog, but basically it's a place to announce new products, so it's a bit misnamed. So, sorry Scoble, I like your C9 with videos (esp. interviews with geniuses like Alan Cooper of About Face 2.0 fame), but your blog sucks like the rest of them. Do I care about your RSS feed collection, or your lunch events, or winetasting with a new MS employee? No, and I know more about you from your video interviews (and actually learn something at the same time) than from your prolific blogging. Now, I already feel like I just wasted 2 minutes reading that stuff.
/. activity to others who have more time to share it. :)
Amazon, Google, and Apple, please DON'T start blogging. You can be secretive for a reason (because you have technically smart and creative people) and they have jobs to do, not loads of time to blog. Maybe spend your free time teaching the next generation of CS students (like my friend, "Google Gayle" link). Would you use 10% of your "20% time" (so to speak) blogging - what a waste of your genius minds...
OK, back to writing software and bugfixing - I'll leave the prolific
This sig donated to Pater. Long live
First of all, you could make an argument that MS is at fault with the rootkit issue because of their own design decisions in the OS, and the complete failure to prevent these things from being so easily installed.
But, how can people complain so much about this horrible idea by Sony, when it the end it probably caused no damage as opposed to the mess that we have out there of virus and spyware riddled computers infected because Windows is not robust enough? At the end of the day, this rootkit is nothing compared to what Microsoft has allowed to happen to all the infected PCs out there in the world.
- sigs are for wimps.
Outside of Bose, I give Sony and Dell the C's or D's.... and MS a B. I dont give a shit about the politics of the way MS runs things, they tend to do things right more often than not. Dell sucks cock, and Sony sucks bigger cock.
Sony more trustworthy than MS?
Is this an early April Fools joke?
that households know, in any meaningful sense, that they are 'running Microsoft software'.
All they know is that they bought a box. It sits in the corner and does things. It has the words 'Dell', 'Intel', and 'Microsoft' stuck all over it. They bought it from PC World. Advertising has reassured them that these names are ok, and, more importantly, that any other name is dangerous, and would probably damage their expensive machine. What each of those names mean, and what they do, is a mystery.
If they ever thought of 'running' something else, they would buy another box. They would have as little intention of reloading an O/S as they would of upgrading their processor; that is, nil.
If they were told that Linux was better, they would go to the High Street and look for a shop called 'Linux World'. If it is not there, that proves that Linux is not better.
Yeah, Apple sure blew away the gaming market the last time they entered it.
This poo is cold.
How could I trust Dell when their customer service has always been ignorant, charmless, and at the end of literally hours of waiting on hold? When their power supply recall (to prevent my computer literally blowing up in my face) never notified me (I saw it on Slashdot), and then never replied after I filled out the required forms?
When I send everyone who asks me to help them buy/upgrade their computer to buy a Dell so Dell support will handle them instead of me, and they all still bug me for help when Dell fails to support them?
When I know that buying a Dell will rule out upgrading with many commodity parts because Dell uses proprietary HW interfaces to save money?
Trust them to take my money, maybe.
--
make install -not war
Hate them as you may, I often find myself recommending Dell to people I don't want to be supporting for the rest of their life. Their PC's aren't bad, as well as their notebooks while staying fairly cheap. The best part (for me) is I tell the lusers to get the 3 year big-big warranty option so they don't bug me for 3 years, after which I tell them their PC is old and "worn out" *giggles*, so they buy a new one with a fresh warranty :D
:) There is even a distinctive "Bose sound" that consists of exaggerated mids and harmonically distorted bass. They mangle the mids to make things sound omnidirectional, since the sound bounces off the walls and generally messes with your brain. They chew up the bass to make their small, hopeless speakers sound bigger than they really are. In a nutshell, if you play old country or Beatles albums on a Bose system it will sound as live as it did in the 1950's. If you play new music on a Bose systems it will also sound as live as it did in the 1950's. Highly compressed, lacking detail, these are things you want in a mall or restaurant sound system so that it doesn't drown out normal conversation, NOT what you want in a quality home stereo you might actually listen to. I haven't had any experience with their customer service, but my guess is they must have the best ass kissers in the industry to make up for their counter-designed products.
Sony.. shmeh. I used to have Sony audio toys, now there's a company whose support is a nightmare. I usually had to take my gear directly to the authorized repair shop to get any quality of service, as the Sony Store itself would send it out, screw up the work order and my gadget would come back 6 weeks later still not fixed. That was about five years ago. Recently I had to send in a car deck too, same story, five weeks later they send it back. I plug it in, no power. I bought a replacement (non-Sony) deck in the meantime, and sent the Sony back AGAIN with a two-page detailed letter of what I expect a 600$ cd player to do when supplied with adequate power and proper sound connections. They actually fixed it within two weeks this time but when it came back I tested it once and put it back in the box to sell. To me, Sony pretends to market to the high-end segment, but they're really just relabeling the same cheap taiwanese crap with a higher price tag. They don't know what they're doing.
Now on to Bose. Excuse me while I giggle my friggin' head off! lol.. Bose sells speakers that sound nice to people who don't know what nice speakers are supposed to sound like. Can you tell I've been rehearsing that line for years ?
-Billco, Fnarg.com
It's amazing what brand trust will do. Dell for instance got a high rating, not necessarily for their quality, but their advertising. Everywhere you go, and read, you are likely to find a dell ad offering a decently speced machine that is cheap. Working at a computer store and as a technician, it's amazing how many people come in looking for a Dell. To many of these people, they aren't looking for a computer, they are looking for a dell, as if the two things were completely different.
As for the quality of dells, I have had mixed results. Obviously their cheap systems are a good deal for someone looking for a basic machine, even though the amount of upgrading you can do to them are severely limited.
I think their position on where apple is is also correct. Their computers are quite nice in all respects, but for the average joe, they are over priced and don't play their videogames.
I think the biggest oddball on this survey is Microsoft. While the other companies are mainly in the hardware arena, most people know Microsoft only for windows. Many people that I have met give microsoft a simple shrug and disregard them entirely. To many people, the computer is a "Dell" running "Windows" and microsoft does not enter their mind for more than a few moments.
The keyword is "thought." The headline implies that it's actually true.
Isn't that Nintendo. Gaming iteration of Apple? They at least seem like they have the same goals in mind.
Has to be the worst customer service experience ever. MS takes your money, jacks you around on the phone with uneducated representatives ( high employment standards ), and then sends you a refurbished, beat up, scratched up, replacement that dies. Utterly rediculous and unacceptable. Trust? Yeah, I don't trust them and I'll jump ship.
Dosn't bose sell overprice crap?
I used to be a Sony fan, I knew they were over-priced even, but I liked their style. I had a Sony digital camera and I loved it. But since their DRM thing, and the fact that they have to use memory sticks rather then SD sticks in their cameras has made me put them on the shit list with Nike. I just won't buy thier products.
Ah well.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Sony More Trustworthy Than Microsoft ?????
Isn't that like saying "snake more trustworthy than scorpion"?If either kill you, you're still dead.
In this case, both parties have shown that they're not trustoworthy - Sony with its DRM "improvements", and MS with [insert favourite MS 'feature' here]. Trying to say one is "less bad" than another is like comparing...erm...a snake and a scorpion.
Remember when Nintendo entered the market? They blew the shit out of the atari.
but here we are 20 years later, Nintendo isn't exactly blowing the market away anymore are they?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Sony, Dell and BOSE (!) get an A+ for trustworthyness!!!! From some of the schlock these companies put out (especially BOSE) this is almost absurd. I wouldn't put any of these companies above Microsoft -- although I do believe Microsoft got the grade it deserved. ;)
This seems to be grading their marketing abilities (which Microsoft lacks) rather than actual trustworthyness. Or maybe they're the same thing
Something is definitely wrong with this. Sony just screwed over a lot of it's customers. It is no longer a good electronics brand name. Beyond music and movies, they have no real products. And how does Dell get an A+ when every dell has windows on it. If people don't trust microsoft, how can they trust dell? Dell is nothing without microsoft.
Must be a slow day on Slashdot when an unsubstantiated (and easily-disproven) assertion like the parent gets ranked "Interesting"...
--R.J.
Electric-Escape.net
It's not surprising that consumers trust SONY more than most consumer electronics companies. They (used to) have one the best track records for inovation, while at the same time, were one of the best-known manufacturers of proprietary technology. Features such as Control S (cables connecting SONY components that would extend the capabilities of IR control), and MemoryStick are present on just about any recent mid- to high-level SONY equipment these days, while competitors chose to ignore the concept or adopt a technology that is not owned by SONY (such as SD or Compact Flash). It does not phase me that SONY's the only major backer of MemoryStick technology; I own all SONY TVs and cameras, so the media's universal in my household. With SONY you're guaranteed (almost stubbornly) that SONY device A will work well with SONY device B right out of the box. Personally, my loyalty to SONY lies in the phenomenal quality of their high-end Trinitron CRT displays; which, unfortunately, are being phased out in both the professional computer display and consumer electronic markets. They have their faults, particularly the recent lack-luster array of features in newer devices when compared to competitors, but I do not mind paying the SONY premium, especially considering the quality of warranty service SONY offers for its high-end equipment.
SONY does manufacture some pretty crappy things, such as their universal remote controls and car audio equipment. But for the most part, the markets they are not a total joke in, they have pretty strong loyalty.
Slashdot hates "Micro$oft"
Is it fair to compare Sony's handling of consumer electronics to MS's handling of an OS? An OS is far more complicated and difficult for an end user to interact with than a TV or walkman. It seems like if the play button makes the music go, then Sony gets credit, and if a malicious coder makes a virus that causes MS products to crash, than MS gets the blame.
For those like me who didn't know WTF that comments was about. See here
... if I created a piece of malicious code that just installs itself silently when inserting a CD via the auto run mechanism, you don't think there's an inherent design flaw in this scheme cause by the OS?
- sigs are for wimps.
You bring up some interesting points while wandering through your post, but I disagree with your comments on the switch to x86. When Apple first switched architectures (from the 680x0 to the Power PC family), that was a strong indication that they weren't planning on tethering the OS to a specific platform. You could point to their earlier switch from nubus to pci, or (relatively) recent switch from SCSI to ATAPI, the inclusion of USB as well as FireWire, etc. as other examples of their flexibility.
In the intel world, they have switched buses (ISA, MCA (an IBM thing), EISA, VESA, PCI, etc. Disks have gone from MFM to SCSI & IDE to ATAPI. Adaptation is imperitive for a computer company to survive. In general, the Intel platform has been more flexible, and has seen the greatest variation in technologies come and go.
The most promising point (from my perspective) about Apple switching to the x86 hardware platform, is that the Macintosh operating system is now approaching the point where it can compete on even ground with Microsoft's Windows operating system. Eventually, we can hope that people will have a *real* choice between OS's that run on similar hardware. We will be able to make our selections based on suitability to function, rather than suitability to hardware platform. Mix and match as it were.
This, coupled with an open document standard (hopefully something will be standardized here...) will finally make the OS irrelevant to the content produced. Sure, everyone will require an OS of some sort. Sure, everyone will have a favourite. Sure, they won't always work seemlessly, but it's a step in the right direction. Finally...
- Avron
Or the content creators just insist on "thinking differently" the same way...
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
Or those markets that Chuck Norris has decided to ignore...
Well yes there is. Peter Jackson is responsible for that though. There is also a Frodo, and a Sam, and even a Merry or two.
Stop Global Warming!
Just say no to irreversible processes!
I'm no fan of Microsoft (coming from a former Microserf AND Microsoft fanatic that's saying a lot) ever since they started treating every customer like a criminal. However I was sure that the public trusted Microsoft a heck of a lot more - in a survey like this I would have been positive they'd have to score an A+++++ because their name is so ubiquitous nowadays; you simply cannot avoid Microsoft advertisements, products, or having to interact with their products in some way.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
"No highs? No lows? Must be Bose!"
Q: How do Bose speakers sound?
A: Take some decent speakers and put a box over them.
Anyone else know any others?
Slightly on-topic: I can see why Bose is rated so high, their resale value is about the best in the consumer speaker market. A lot of people trust the brand and are very happy to see what they can sell them for. If you dont care about the sound they put out (or you truly think that your Bose speakers are The Best), then Bose certainly deserves the rating they got.
Wrong on both counts. I certainly can hate them, and very easily, based on their past and present behavior. Though nowadays, I try hard not to hate them, because it's unhealthy and it clouds my judgement. It is better to maintain my blood pressure and simply recognize that I want nothing to do with them. This leads to the other point. I do not, in fact, "have to use their products". Well, I suppose I must do so occasionally where I'm employed, but that is because I choose to keep this particular job instead of making $5.50/hr flipping burgers. At home, though, I do not and have not used a microsoft product yet this century, and I have no intention of doing so. (Oh, and long ago I cut off tech support for family and friends who use windows. Life's far too short to waste on such a sisyphean task.) Somehow, I'm still able to do everything I need to be able to do, without supporting an organization I dislike.
How could a statement about trustworthiness ever be "TRUE". Trustworthiness is a subjective quality. Something subjective can't be "TRUE". It's pretty obvious what the title meant, or were you misled into thinking that that there was some newly discovered law of nature making "Sony More Trustworthy Than Microsoft"?
Dell is the one who decides to put Windows on their computers. They could choose to put BeOS or Linux or something else. They are Microsoft's largest customer. They could go to Microsoft and demand that they do more to address these issues. Therefore, they are at least partially responsible for the low quality of Windows.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
but they do understand the phrase "fuck, it broke".
Just once I'd like to see a BSOD that says, "oh fuck!"I would say that I like Sony as a company more than I like Microsoft as a company but I would not give Sony a trust rating of A+.
I love my PSP but I don't like any of Sony's DRM efforts (I think the rootkit takes the cake) and I don't like their Chinese menu of flash memory "standards". Compact flash and SD/MMC cover things pretty well. Ok, one tiny one like transflash or miniMMC isn't a bad idea but I don't understand how we need both - and I hope Sony doesn't come up with a competitor to them.
You forgot Sun--do they sell hardware, or software+services? Are they pro-linux (or at least pro-open source), or pro-microsoft? Do they like AMD or not? (Actaully, AMD is probably another addition to "Companies that can do no wrong"--but whether that's because /.ers are sheep or because AMD really is that good is up for substantial debate). And the sad part of it is, we will probably know the answers to these questions as soon as Sun does.
if there was an OS out there that people was a) cheap b) easy to use for nongeek windows users who had a little bit of time, but not a ton of time to learn something new c) played nice w/ windows to the point of being so transparent that nobody else knew you were using a new OS, I think a lot of those upper-middle class, male types would make the switch. As it is now, you've got dedicate at least a week of, in essence, having no computer to learn Linux, and jump over a million hurdles and deal w/ a crippled system (sorry, saving .docs in .rtf makes you look cheap and lame; I know it's cheap and lame, but that's how it looks), just to run something different.
Going to Apple won't be an option till they start putting out budget machines, which I don't see happening--at this point, unless you're a graphics person, you buy an $1K ibook for the same reason you buy an ipod--b/c it's a freakin' sweet status symbol. If you want a computer, you buy a $700 windows machine.
There might be a windows tax, but there's definately a mac tax, too, and it's usually about 20%.
How many of you remeber computers before IBM's first PC and Microsoft's DOS? It that era the big coputer makers (IBM, DEC, Sun, Data General, CDC, ..) made computers for and sold them to people with much expertise in the field. The typical computer buyer either had degree(s) in enginerring, machmatics or computer science or had people on staff who did. "Joe Sixpack" didn't make buying decisions. When you sell to the non-expert public technical merit is irrelevent they buy based on other criteria they can understand like "every else is buying this, so it must be good", "this one costs tens bucks less", "I like blue"
The problem here is that the market is becomming more educated and a few of the more technically oriented buyers are beginning to use more relelent criteria like "does it do what I want?", "Will it break?"
That said I think Gate's observetion will always remain true.
Bankers
Microsoft
Sony
A 3 card montee dealer
A con artist
A convicted perjuror
----
yes folks, in a recent survey, Sony was more trustworthy than 50% of the others considered....
Or to put it another way..
I DO NOT TRUST MICROSOFT.
I DO NOT TRUST SONY.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
But they are making the most money.
Any research scientist knows it's publish or perish, and bad news sells. If global warming isn't true, what will all these "climatologists" write grant proposals about?
Unfortunately, despite the slashdot fantasy of the oh-so-scrupulous scientist, money drives everything. Even research. It's important to keep that in mind when a scientist publishes a study.
(And I don't have a strong opinion about global warming, I just know that "catastrophe science" has a bad record.
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/A ppleStore?productLearnMore=MA070G/A
Sony screwed up royally with its rootkit fiasco. No question there.
But at least we know what Sony was trying to do with their rootkit. They wanted to protect their music from illegal copying and chose a heavy-handed, dumbass way to do it.
On the other hand, Microsoft can do anything Sony can do with a rootkit directly from Windows. And more. And beyond wanting to 'help' Sony and others protect their music, they also want Windows to 'help' Microsoft defeat its competitors in server OS's and web publishing, search, etc.
Who would you trust?
Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
Whose water fountain have you been standing around?
Whoever modded this "offtopic" is only showing his/her own ignorance of what the Pippin even is. I believe the parent's post is meant mere to illustrate the fact that Apple does not automatically pwn whatever market it chooses to enter. As such it is very much on-topic.
It's not a lie. It's the truth with lossy compression.
Thank you for the HOWTO. From the page:
Are there specialized graphical editors for sources.list that would allow a median grandmother to easily add a store-bought CD-ROM as a repository? (No, notepad clones don't count.) And would it properly detect repositories on different CDs that are mounted and unmounted as people buy Linux app CDs from a hypothetical Penguin-Mart and then insert and eject them? Do all distributions mount the primary optical drive at the same URI?there are alot of non-free repositories around.
By "non-free" in the context of Debian-compatible repositories, I assume you mean that same thing Debian means by "non-free", that is, proprietary software. However, Debian's "non-free" repository contains "freeware," that is, software cleared by its copyright owner for free redistribution to the general public but not under a free software license. However, many specialized programs depend on revenue from sales of copies in order to finance their development. Do online repositories allow for secure payment to the publisher per package, per computer that the package will be installed on?
Just buy linux friendly hardware if you plan on running linux.
So if I'm planning to switch to Linux, should I necessarily plan on buying a new set of hardware? Should I treat Linux like Mac OS X, something to be switched to when I'm already planning on replacing hardware?
The benefits outweigh the brief googling.
So once I'm within a Wal-Mart or Best Buy or Circuit City store, looking at a shelf full of peripherals, how can I access Google to see which are compatible with a given operating system other than a recent proprietary operating system published by Microsoft or Apple?
For one thing, Sony does not know how to make buttons.
If Sony has trouble making reliable buttons, then why is my PlayStation digital controller still responsive after ten years?
Also the picture is slightly distorted and the color is uneven and always has been.
Are you trying to play your Columbia Tristar Home Video disc on a Sony DVD player connected to a Sony TV through a Sony VCR? The problem here is Macrovision. Blame Sony Pictures for turning it on ;-)
I, for one, have no trust whatsoever in Sony products. They are all crap as far as I can tell
So if not PlayStation family, then which platform do you use for same-screen multiplayer video gaming?
If you extolled, in perfect detail, all of the reasons that Sony and Microsoft should and should not be trustworthy, users would probably agree that neither can be trusted. Hence they're not really trustworthy, they're just misunderstood.
What?!? Personally I have no ethical beef whatsoever with Microsoft. On the other hand, I don't use any of their products. I can find no reason TO use any of their products. What Microsoft products are you talking about that is so pervasive?? Am I missing out on some great MS product that is as important to society as toilet paper or something??
Seriously... I'm not exagerating here. I have no reason to buy any MS product, nor can I think of any MS product that I would ever be in the market for, nor do I use any MS product that I am aware of ever in my daily life EXCEPT when I happen to be working *for* Microsoft, which I do from time to time.
Well, maybe MS keyboards and mice... those are nice and I might be in the market for those one day, but right now I've got enough.
Windows? WHY on earth would I use Windows? Most of my hardware can't run it, and the precious proc and memory of my high end boxes I would never want to spend on simply running the kernel and pretty interface when I have better things to do with it. Add to that the fact that it would cost me thousands of dollars in software costs to get the functionality of my current boxes if I used windows, and even then I couldn't get all the functionality I need because most software wont run (or runs badly, or is just a nightmare to get working) on windows.
X-Box? Maybe... but I don't have time for alot of games, and I really don't need a dedicated unit to play them.
Money? I lose interest too much when tracking my finances that closely and everything goes out of date so as to be useless.
Tax Software? I use online stuff and have for years. Works just as well and I honestly trust it more because it's more up to date by nature.
Third party software that needs Windows? Can't think of any I need. I don't do any photo editiong or video work or anything that requires a professional proprietary package so hardcore that the alternatives don't work for me.
What am I missing here... seriously. Am I just weird? Ok.. I'll grant you that, but come on, you started with the premise that I can't live without Microsoft and I'm racking my brains to figure out where on Earth I even USE Microsoft stuff. And I don't even avoid it conciously!
(My TV is Sony... but I bought that before the root-kit fiasco)
Actually, boycotting Sony and BMG is hard, very hard.
With Sony - there are DVDs, and Music CDs, complete works of one artist or band, that must be boycotted.
But now when renting DVDs or buying CDs, or even downloading iTunes, I have to take that second look to make sure it isn't Sony or BMG. And yes, even if I wanted it, I'll put it back on the shelf. There are other suppliers of media that don't root kit infect your computer just to play some songs.
Boycotting the Electronics is easy, because lets face it, Samsung and Panasonic have taken the lead with TVs, Canon and Nikon have the lead in cameras, and if you like squandering your life, XBOX 360 will turn hours of productive time in to soul emptying wastefulness (as well as take away your extra spending cash.)
Skipping buying any VAIO computers is easy - HP Media Center PCs and Apple Macs are just fine for most tasks. Laptops, well pick your flavor - what ever you like.
MP3 Players - for the cheap ones, Creative is good, for all the extras, the iPod does a great job. And for the portable CD players - you can get good no-name players for like, $9 bucks on sale. If you drop it and break it, you wont be crying over the lost $70 for overly fancy CD-players.
Checking your components, Sony CD players, DVD players, and Sony media - as long as you double check before you buy, you should be able to live quite well, if not better, in a Sony / BMG free world. In fact, you might just save some money, since you're not paying for the 'Sony' name...
Do the brand ratings of 3 (uh mostly electronics?) companys have much to do with a software company? Granted Microsoft is hated and will always score very low, but I doubt there are very many software companys that would get a great rating.
Why do AOL caliber users need to be buying software at all?
Because the people who make assets for high-production-value PC games and the people who translate annually amended tax statutes and regulations into computer instructions need to eat. Or do you claim that novice computer users should do without games and tax return preparation software altogether?
They encourage an indirect model where application vendors work with the distribution not the customer: application vendor -> distribution -> customer
OK, so which distribution includes tax return preparation software with a subscription to updated business rules for the United States of America and each of its 50 states? Which distribution includes recent high-production-value PC games?
The vertical axis is 'aspiring users' ie those users that might start using that companies products in the future. MS is the lowest on that scale because it already has all the users! Well all the surveyed users anyway.
The moral of this survey is that companies need to spend more on marketing BS & make lots of relatively nice low price products that lots of people will buy (TVs, speakers, phones) in order to generate a good rep with everyday peoeple.
I've experiments to run, there is research to be done on the people who are still alive.
No problem!
Are there specialized graphical editors for sources.list that would allow a median grandmother to easily add a store-bought CD-ROM as a repository? (No, notepad clones don't count.)
Yes, there are specialized graphical editors for sources.list that would allow a median grandmother to easily add a store-bought CD-ROM as a repository
And would it properly detect repositories on different CDs that are mounted and unmounted as people buy Linux app CDs from a hypothetical Penguin-Mart and then insert and eject them?
Yes it would, considering the repository on the CD is set up correctly by the vendor (nothing grandma has to do) and the path is in the sources (grandma could need to add this with the easy GUI specialized editor shown above. For added easyness, It would be no problem for the vendor to even make the repository look like an official mandrake CD, so grandma would just need to select the software she wants to.)
Do all distributions mount the primary optical drive at the same URI?
This problem is as easy as telling grandma to write in the path given to here on the CD (just like a serial numer, even easier as it is not complete random alphanumerical data.
By "non-free" in the context of Debian-compatible repositories, I assume you mean that same thing Debian means by "non-free", that is, proprietary software. However, Debian's "non-free" repository contains "freeware," that is, software cleared by its copyright owner for free redistribution to the general public but not under a free software license.
A non-free repository, as far as 'the windows way' goes, can be distributed with a CD as described above if a proprietary vendor wants to use the linux packaging system. If not, he can provide a shell script that automatically installs the software, doing the checking-for-specific-distro behind scenes. Just as windows installers check for windows versions. It could also (through checkinstall) create a convenient package that could be integrated in the linux package manager. All this is done by the vendor. The end user would just double-click a install file. Same as windows basically...
However, many specialized programs depend on revenue from sales of copies in order to finance their development. Do online repositories allow for secure payment to the publisher per package, per computer that the package will be installed on?
The way a vendor will go on collecting money is completely irrelevent to the packaging system itself. Access to a proprietary-repository can be granted to a paying customer only. Just as club members on mandriva have access to Media reserved to club members.
So, there are a bunch of ways you can install software on linux. Most are even friendlier than the windows way. If you really want to get envolved with Linux, you'll never turn back...
Jack Welch (former Chairman and CEO of General Electric) came up with the idea of "One Two or Out", which was if you can't be number one or number two in a market, get out.
It seems to work for GE, and Apple. And a lot of others.
Troll Like a Champion Today
Yes it would, considering the repository on the CD is set up correctly by the vendor
Which distribution do you recommend that does this?
It would be no problem for the vendor to even make the repository look like an official mandrake CD
Which is a problem for grandmas who use Ubuntu or the like. All versions of Windows, on the other hand, respond to the same "D:\setup.exe"
Are you planning on switching to Vista?
Not until I buy a new PC. Unlike with Windows XP (NT 5.1), which was targeted at the same hardware profile as Windows 2000 (NT 5.0), Microsoft is making it clear that only a new PC will run Windows Vista properly. Linux live CDs project the opposite image, that Linux can be "switched" to.
Ask anyone at Walmart if the component is supported under linux. They will be more than happy to answer.
I've tried. The answer will almost universally be "Never heard of it" or some other form of "I don't know".
If not, you decide on some you are willing to buy and Google them up when you get a chance.
Which requires at least two trips to the store, double the bus fare that one would have paid when sticking with the version of Windows included with a PC. Understand how penny-wise-pound-foolish novice computers are.
So once grandma gets someone to setup linux for her (she wouldn't be able to setup windows by herself either, right?)
There's a difference. The companies that set up Windows on new home PCs advertise nationally; the companies that do so with Linux don't.
Which distribution do you recommend that does this?
Any modern distribution that uses a modern packet manager can do this. Stick with the "beginner distros", mandriva, ubuntu, even SuSE if you want a near windows experience. But what you are doing wrong is that you are looking for a windows rip-off. Linux is not one. It's a whole new OS with different ways of doing things. Once you give yourself some time to learn how it works, returning to windows will be a pain. Some stuff that annoy me in windows now: Constant dialog boxes/balloons, lack of Shading windows (roll them up to only a title bar), lack of multiple desktops (well to be fair windows has this with an extra download), lack of one click installs/upgrades. It's a whole new world and quiet frankly I've been looking around for programs that build this functionality in windows. I've found win-get on sourceforge, pretty cool and today I found Google pack. I'll have to try that out when I decide to boot back to windows. Believe me: Just as you want linux to be as user friendly as windows, I want windows to be as user friendly as linux... And I'm not kidding here.
Which is a problem for grandmas who use Ubuntu or the like. All versions of Windows, on the other hand, respond to the same "D:\setup.exe"
You give people less credit than they deserve. Any Grandma that can find out how to install, say, corel draw with it's double serial numbers can surely point to a differant directory on the CD for her specific linux-distro repository. Keep in mind the commercial user-friendly distro's are a small few of the whole number of distros. They can be easily supported by a proprietary vendor if it decides to offer products. What you are doing is limiting the way linux can get proprietary or free software to walmart, and building on that fact as it was universal. Most people I know, even windows users, buy software online more than they do Walmart, because it is more conveniant. Linux installs are: point to repository (online or offline) select package, install. That's it.
... Microsoft not getting a good grade isn't surprising, but Dell and Sony getting good ones? ... well, actually, by my experience, Dell is good for a computer company, certainly better than Time, who I had before... Not that that's saying much. Yeah, building my own machine next time I need a new one.
As for Sony ... fragile.
Fair critique, and thanks for your comment Maybe I should drop the corporate speak and just say it in plain English. I guess what I was trying to say is in the age of DRM and changing rights and big databases, it's all going to come down to which companies do you trust? The fact that there is so much component reuse and commodization in manufacturing--to your point--reinforces this fact. Thanks again,