Slashdot Mirror
Texas to Provide Online 'Bordercams'
Dr_Barnowl writes "The BBC reports that Texas intends to erect a network of online webcams at its border to Mexico. The intention is apparently to use viewers as a kind of distributed processing network, with a free phone number to report border-jumpers." From the article: "'A stronger border is what Americans want and it's what our security demands and that is what Texas is going to deliver,' Mr Perry said. The cameras will cost $5m (£2.7m) to install and will be trained on sections of the 1,000-mile (1,600km) border known to be favoured by illegal immigrants " Hey, it's working for Britain, right?
redneck xenophobia
why not build a big wall, 20 feet high, and thousand miles long?
Quake 3 is open sourced, just use the game as a GUI.
The illegal immigration problem would go away in days!
These cameras will be publicly viewable by anyone on the internet, not just The Authorities.
I have absolutely no problem at all with 100% public surveillance, as long as all of the video feeds are available to any person at any time, and not just Big Brother.
Hey, it's working for Britain, right?
There's a subtle, but important, difference. Britain's cams look in while Texas's cams look out. If Texas tried to spy on its citizens the same way that Britain does (not that I'm saying that Brits necessarily mind the camera), the Texans would blow them away with 20 gauge shotguns.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
I've composed a little poem to be enscribed on your border wall. In honour of Ms Lazarus, its called "The Newer Colossus":
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
PS: No Mexicans"
Now, if only we could add a web interface to a sentry gun...
It's a Video Game. It's National Security. It's two, TWO, two games in one!
I suggest that anybody interested in this topic read 'The Transparent Society' by David Brin - he covers this issue, plus quite a bit more while making some excellent points.
I now have a new 'worst imaginary job':(I can't ever see that sentence being finished)
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
The government is even invading the privacy of whole other countries!
--
Music should be free
My Computer Music Tutorial Videos
A stronger border is what Americans want
Says who? I suspect an honest poll of real-life ordinary Americans would reveal that they want affordable social security, the end of the war in Iraq, sensible energy policies and a range of other things first...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Just as illegal immigrants "do the jobs americans don't want to do"(sic), now we have texans doing the jobs the government doesnt want to do.
way to feed people's obsessive compulsive disorder government!
Seriously, i can only see people fanatically obsessed willing to stare at a screen of nothing but desert for hours on end to report the evil job stealing border jumpers... that is while theyre not tapping the walls trying to find the martians out to roast them with laser beams.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
Now drug smugglers and other criminals finally have the possibility to find out in advance where the cameras are located and avoid being seen.
OS Reviews: Free and Open Source Software
So while the government complained about the Minutemen watching the border, they're now creating what is essentially the same thing, only online.
Does anyone own land just past the fence, or is it public? If it's the former, get yer rifles loaded boys!
Before crossing border illegally, tell the authorities to check on the other side of the state.
Sure it's hopefully not intended as something for rapid response, but if they are going to use just regular people its something that can be manipulated, and why even bother.
before the Eborder-jumpers just start hanging out in view of their very opwn free webcams and start crying and stripping like true webcammers?
Why not outsource the 'Bordercam' watching to India or China?
From the BBC article:
Mr Perry, a Republican, is running for re-election in November.
I'm sure that has absolutely nothing to do with the grandstanding^W pandering^W honest effort to do what's best.
Besides, once someone identifies people crossing the border and "notifies the authorities", then what?
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
I can see the AIM bots now.. "Hola! Click here to see me and my girlfriends have wild parties, hide from border patrols, and dodge farmers' bullets! Tee-hee! ;-)"
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
What sorts of response times are we looking at? Suppose I saw someone run across the frame and reported it. How long would it take the officials to get there to deal with it? And what do you want to bet that the description that most callers report is going to be along the lines of "Well, he looked like a dirty Mexican"?
This guy's the limit!
Now, just think for a moment if they offered rewards for reporting illegal immigrants. Nothing too spendy. Something really cheap, affordable, like illegals. We could have teams of illegals watching the border through webcams. Brilliant!
Hey, it's working for Britain, right?
Of course here we aren't watching our own citizens. . .
"The problem with internet quotations is that many are not genuine" -Abraham Lincoln
Group of immigrants is about to cross the border - group of immigrants calls into toll free number to report activity at a different crossing point.
Seems like a little cottage industry could form - maybe they could outsource the calls to an Indian call center...
-gary
I give you, the next generation of border security enhancements. Note where this set-up is located.
GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
I disagree. Most Americans feel entitled to all the world's resources at the best prices, and don't like any competition where they are not guaranteed to come out on top. My couch potato friends are constantly shamed by 3rd-worlders who come over here with nothing and no language skills, and turn simple hard work into assets. A Thai I know, just bought a simple rowhouse in Philly with the cash she made busting her butt for about 7 years. This infuriates my lazy friends. This is not the American way. The American way should first pay off the entitled, lazy American slackers. These open borders are way too rewarding to hard workers for most of my friends to stomach.
I've been waiting for something like this -- something that gets ordinary people to spy on one another. I know people will say this is the border, and the people crossing aren't "us".
But I don't buy the distinction between "us" and the people crossing, and I don't believe this will stop at the border. Pretty soon we'll have the public looking for traffic violations, doing screen caps and scribbling down license numbers, infrared cams in parks looking for kids having fun at night, etc.
We can put cams outside of bars, and let people look for people coming out, staggering a bit, and getting into their cars. You don't support drunk driving do you? And it's all on a public street.
If we all spy on each other, we can live in a crime free paradise! Look how well that whole stasi thing worked out.
It may be noted (for those unfamiliar with the region's history/politics) that India has faced a considerable inflow of illegal immigrants from Bangladesh for more than a decade. Moreover, unlike India-Bangladesh relations are not benign as the US-Mexico relations currently seem to be, with a number of alleged fundamentalist religious organizations from Pakistan using the porous border to carry out terrorist activities on Indian soil.
While the world's attention has been focused on the Israeli security barrier sealing off the West Bank, India has been building a far longer fence to keep out Islamic militants, thwart cross-border smuggling and stop human trafficking.
More than 1,300 miles of the barrier has been erected in the six years since building began. Snaking through jungles, rivers and the villages of five states, Delhi's floodlit, 12ft double fence packed with razor wire will render India a fortress against her neighbour.
This is not intended as flamebait, nor as a political rant. Just thought it might be useful to look at the steps other countries have been taking to combat unapproved/illegal immigration into their borders...probably from more hostile neighbors.
I for one think each piece of technology has it's own place where it works well. Just because we have the technology to stream live video via the intarw3b doesn't mean it can replace a relatively low-cost hard barrier (agreed though that the FTA claims this is a temporary solution).
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
You know you're out there, you know you got suckered into buying a cheap $10 or $20 wireless webcam from X10 back in the late 90s.... now we all have a way to redeem ourselves ;-p
If we all dig out our old, useless X10s and donate them to the Fed, we can surely cover the entire border with motion activated, web enabled video surveillance... there has got to be millions of these little buggers out there... all the fed would have to do is wire them up.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
There is no need to spend billions on a fence or other border devices. All that is needed is a crackdown on the demand side of the equation. Shut down a few businesses that hire illegal workers, and the demand for them will dry up overnight. Far fewer illegal immigrants will spend the time to come here if there are no jobs for them.
I dunno. I think that Hadrian's Wall is actually drawing tourists at this point, rather than keeping people out.
-Uberhund
It'll be HUGE!
The Bush administration has announced that they are planning to protect New Orleans from another hurricane with millions of pasta strainers. A senior official was quotes as saying "We figure as long as we make a good show of having a ton of plastic bowls with holes in them on the levees the water will be discouraged and stay in the Gulf of Mexico."
Coding with assembly is like playing with Legos. Coding an application in assembly is like building a car with Legos.
This will save a lot of money by not having to hire government employees to watch these cameras. People will be fighting to watch these cameras and there will never be a shortage of people willing to help out. I do like the attached sentry gun idea a little more though. Once it got done shooting it would be cool if it said something like "Don't mess with Texas".
If carrots got you drunk, rabbits would be fucked up. - Comedian Mitch Hedberg R.I.P. 03/30/68-2/24/05
Shouldn't there be a way to tell if anybody else is watching that camera so that you don't have everybody watching just one camera while the rest of the cameras go unwatched? I just skimmed the article, but I didn't see any mention of that feature.
Stick that in your compiler and debug it!
I guess you americans already have enough gardeners, farm helpers, construction workers and waiters, eh? truly, the way the US and Mexico act belies the official discourse about both countries being friends and associates. Sadly I believe we're burdened by two of the single most idiotic presidents in history, George W. Bush and Vicente Fox. Luckily for us Mexicans, Fox is leaving office this december. Hopefully whoever the new president is, will have a more sensible (at *all* sensible) foreign policy as well as measures to reduce the need for migration. And hopefully americans will realize that Mexico is a friendly country and pressure the Bush administration into looking at real solutions to the immigration "problem". Building fences and putting up cameras is *not* a solution.
Illegal immigrant caught on street corner selling stolen webcams.
To err is human. To forgive is not company policy.
Only in the United States can the government turn an illegal immigration issue into a reality TV show.
Illegal immigration is unfair to folks from other countries like China and India and other regions like South America, Africa, and SE Asia. These other folks can't just jump a fence or hike a few miles. They should have the same opportunities to immigrate to America as folks from Mexico if they want.
The law needs to be changed to make illegal immigration difficult and legal immigration a lot easier. Border enforcement is necessary for that.
Are they going to call them Mexi-cams?
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
So it seems that Chuck Norris can't do everything on his own.
Wouldn't it be easier to just to hand over Texas to Mexico? I know I wouldn't miss it.
-matthew
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
It must get tiring looking down your nose all the time.
We must be alert to the danger that public policy could become captive to a scientific-technological elite. - Eisenhower
Now I'll know where the border patrol is before I leave the hacienda!!
~ Juan
How is self defence xenophobia? If you had some other person "invading" your neither region and depositing their "people" wouldn't you complain too? That's about the least graphic I can make a good analogy of the situation. In reality the problem is that borders are there for a reason. I am sure you wouldn't want our influence spreading outward as you are obviously an Anti-American. Without our borders there as political boundaries, then our influence would spread as far as we want it to, and what would stop us from using our military prowess (read: everything in our power including nukes) to make everyone live by our way or the highway?
It's the same in reverse too, we don't want the corruption of the Mexican Government weeding it's way into ours more than it already has (read: Bush) and making us more like our third-world neighbor.
Erutangis ym si siht.
"Redneck" is a slur against a group of people based on their skin color.
Slashdot (and everyone else) ought to be against that kind of thing.
Now maybe we'll be able to catch those crafty border-jumping Americans!
Cam Girl Wages Plummit
Well, I'll be - distributed boarder guarding. Good thing it's not open source, I guess.
Kinky for Governor. Why the hell not?
Why is there not a logical(computer) system in place. Eg. a system that uses motion sensors, heatsensors to detect movment on these stretchs of land.
You could have one operator covering hundreds of miles of video/still footage. If the system flags it, he just needs glace at it too see if it isa person, then he just hits a big red button and wham the security forces can go out there. The system would also know where to send the 'welcome' team as each camera has it's postion marked.
See, a simple system, even a high school programmer could write this softare.
What is wrong with the world and people, thinking up crap ideas for problems at hand like relaying videot to the world.
In the linked article, it says that the public can view the streets of Britain through the cameras.
The Mexican government actively encourages their citizens to enter to the U.S. illegally, and often assists them in doing so. From my point of view, our relations are hardly "benign".
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
You have no idea how scared I am of those filthy Canadians sneaking across the border to take advantage of our healthcare system and steal all our good beer.
... holy crap, I can't believe I'm even bothering trying to type this out. Just try some Canadian beer and compare. You'll never go back. There's no comparison.
Mmph!! (spits beer all over keyboard) Since when has the US had "good beer?" Are you talking about Budwater? Ever been out drinking with Canadians? The standard jab when you catch someone drinking a Coors Light is, "Ah, you must be the designated driver tonight, eh?"
Canadian beer is so much better than US beer that
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
Geeks with guns.
I love the smell of Karma in the morning
Minuteman Volunteer: No, right now we only keep watch during the day.
Jason Jones: That's a really good idea. I mean, if you did it at night you wouldn't be able to see anything.
I read Usenet for the articles.
The tags for this article: xenophobia, stupid (tagging beta)
It seems that the sole use of the tagging system is to allow the "editors" to further "editorialize" the articles.
P.S. If protecting your border is xenophobic and stupid, the US is in a lot of good "xenophobic and stupid" company (i.e. almost every other country in the world).
Uttering logically derived and empirically supported truths to the disciples of the orthodox establishment.
Obviously the border is a big problem and we need to do something about it. I've heard people talking about building walls, more border patrol ECT..., but in this day and age we should be able to lock down the border with technology using less people. Cameras are the way to go, but the implementation sounds very poor. In my opinion these cameras should all be connected to a computer processing system. They should be able to come up with a program that can recognize human like movement. Every time the program raises a red flag, a person in a control room should check out the video feed and either send or not send border patrol as necessary. A system like this could be set up and implemented with fewer resources than a wall, using much less people to have to patrol. If cities can set up camera's that can check people's faces against a database and raise a red flag, how hard would it be for a program to detect basic human movement?
those minutemen were live people placing themselves on the front line and thus required the government to devote more resources to protecting them from harm than will need to be spent on these just-an-object cameras.
Does anyone else feel like we're all being forced to jump through hoops? Everyone (in the US) these days is talking about immigration. Why, exactly? Has something sudden and new changed about the number or rate of illegal immigrants between 2005 and 2006?
I'll tell you why: because it's an election year, and the members of Congress need something to polarize the nation to get the public to vote. It's all one big game they're playing to get themselves reelected. It seems rather irresponsible to me. What was the topic for 2004? Gay marriage. And 2002? Well, nobody in the US can remember back that far... I'm sure abortion was used one of the election years, of course.
I understand it's easy to miss sarcasm online, but wow. I mean, just ... wow.
I hate everyone equally: Rednecks, niggers, chinks, pakis, white trash, hebes, beans, wetbacks...
This is a good start. Just couple this with zoneminder http://www.zoneminder.com/ and have it page the border patrol when activity is detected and you have a realtively inexpensive monitoring solution. That way you don't have to rely on potentially bogus phone calls to alert the border patrol.
Really surprised the news media has not positioned cameras and broadcasts the illegal crossings on the news. Oh, right, most of the media is to the left and welcome the illegal aliens. Guess they are trying to get enough votes to actually win an election next time around.
I wonder how much these cameras will fetch on the flea markets in Mexico City...
Oh well, what the hell...
They need to start a competition around this to really boost participation. Make it something like folding@home or seti@home. Then geeks can run several images diff'ing processes on the images, get an alert when one of the threads picks up on something.
The spotter can call it in (old school bottleneck, why not a jabber server?) with a user name and get credit for the spot.
Then the authorities can send out a patrol to nab the crossers.... What's that you say? Not enough authorities or probably too far away to intercept? Helicopters or other intercept aircraft to spot until someone on the land can get to them.
They don't seriosly expect people to watch shrubs, sand and tumbleweeds in real time do they?
You are checking your backups, aren't you?
So Minuteman project wants to put a 1800-wetback or something with their web big brother thingy.
Let's stop them.
Call to arms, well phones really.
Call them 24-7 from every phone you can lay your hands on.
Calling will be pricey for them, the call is free for you, not for them.
make'em pay in cold hard cash.
Fightyarights
Yeah this is for sure going to work and not be a waste of time so since the Mexico bordner problem is solved we can move on to more inmportant things like making sure the gays don't marry.
Oh, right, most of the media is to the left and welcome the illegal aliens. Guess they are trying to get enough votes to actually win an election next time around.
this comes right out of the inflammatory and fallacious dialogue of hannity and oreilley, please mod down this pointless, and by the way false, partisan attack.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
However, I would suggest that they go with a more robust system. Put up cameras that can be accessed through an Internet system. When somebody signs up they get assigned a camera view. Importantly, this view should not be associated with a location, so that we're not encouraging vigilante behavior. Instead they get an anonymous camera view (that perhaps changes regularly). When they see something suspicious they should be able to simply click a button adn that alert goes to the Border Patrol, who can then take a quick look at the monitor to decide what to do. Users who "over click" would get removed from the system (or simply encourage a sort of competitive rating system among users for most accurate, and most "catches").
I understand there's a lot of politics about this, but I think the government should be looking into the uses of distributed technology in this fashion to leverage their abilities.
Because everyone in the world is just "totally" dying to get into the greatest country in the world.
HAHAHAHHAHAA. If only you fuckwits knew the truth.
_
\\/ are accustomed' - First Lensman
If (....) -> the Texans would blow them away with 20 gauge shotguns
I think anything could fit into those brackets.
Defining Statistics and Social Research
So you're saying that we should pay for their tickets over here? I conclude this because the reason it's easier to immigrate from Mexico has everything to do with that pesky ocean. I'll be surprised if you have a solution for getting rid of that obstacle, so that leaves assissting them to cross.
Thats fine and dandy, Ill just report false sightings all day long because putting cameras on the borders are a serious misallocation of needed money.
Why arent they putting camera's on the borders to Canada? Seeing as how putting troops on the US / Mex border are under the guise of nation security even though the 9/11 terrorists crossed from Canada....Canada's border is bigger and less secure. The US Govt led by Republicans is about as racist as it gets. No I'm not Mexican but have been best friends with mainly Mexican Americans and it pisses me off to see this shit happening right in front of our faces.
Hola mama! Ya estoy en Texas!
Of course, compiling footage of border crossing takedowns will be entertaining.
We have the technology right now to implement automatic video-based motion detection. What is the point of having a chaotic, transient group of people monitor the border when this can be done much more efficiently in an automated manner? This seems like more of a PR stunt than a sincere attempt to police the borders.
I could see smuggling rings using this to good advantage, really.
Texas is great. A real bastion of individual rights and freedoms. And it's all thanks to guns!
Well, excluding small incidents like this one.
As for creating a diversion well that is already possible. If illegal immigrants were some kind of noble human beings that do operate according to the principal of everybody for themselves. You know, like every other human being on this planet.
In a way this is a good idea. You see a lot of people who claim the "average joe" doesn't support the hardline on immigration. Well if that is true then we should see almost no volunteers for this. If however every tom, dick and harry is going to volunteer their free time to keep watch then it is clear for once and all what americans truly think about this.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
I know this because I met a couple of Chinese guys who explained to me how they originally came to the US. It takes a few years, but it's still faster than waiting for an opening from Hong Kong or Taiwan.
Needless to say it blew my mind.
We have always been at war with Eurasia!
Hey, the only Canadian beer we get down here is pisswater like Molson and Moosehead. I'd put Goose Island, Redhook, Fat Tire, Sierra Nevada, Sam Adams, Yuengling, and any of hundreds of other small, regional American brews up against the souile you export to us any day.
Hooray for election years!
For those of you either living under a rock or outside Texas, there's an election coming up for governor, and we have two independent candidates competing along with the usual party candidates.
--
"Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
"Open source is evil." - Microsoft
...I kind of like the idea. As previously mentioned, as long as all the video feeds are looking out and are not just available to authorities. To the people that say, "What about the land of opportunity,..blah, blah." There is a difference in taking a ship across the ocean and going through customs, immigration, etc., and just a bunch of people walking across the border. If anyone wants to come into my country, I'm perfectly fine with that if they follow the same guidelines and conditions as those who came before them. The Irish, Germans, Italians, etc. people that sailed to this country in the 1800's and later became the nation's workforce, police, etc. They were an asset, not a liability, to this country. Any undocumented people in this country, not just Mexicans, are a problem when they number in the millions. Anyone that is able to provide a service to this country should follow the correct channels and go through immigration. Hell, I'd pay for the pen and paperwork, as long as they get documented, and all I want is a week to check Mexican or other countries' police records (to catch people fleeing their own country's authorities), a picture, fingerprints, and issue them an ID card. Is that too much to ask?
Yeah, the east german really do well now the stasi is gone.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The plan will allow web users worldwide to watch Texas' border with Mexico and phone the authorities if they spot any apparently illegal crossings.
I like how they slip the word 'apparently' in there, suggesting there are legal crossings that occur as individuals climb the fences, entering a country without permission. Linguistic sleights of hand like this make me chuckle. It's so obvious the writer has a negative view of the subject he is reporting and the editors seem to have skipped filtering this bias out. Remember people, these fences aren't so much rules as they are guidelines...
Let's not forget that not one, NOT ONE terrorist has EVER been caught crossing the US-Mexican border. However, the potential LAX bomber was caught trying to cross over into the US from Canada (turns steely glare directly north).
According to the Washington Post , the US has a laughingly low number of border patrol agents on the northern border.
From TFA: "The United State posts more than five agents per mile across our southern border. By contrast, we post less than one agent every five miles across our northern border. What's more, as the United States has cut off urban crossing points in places such as El Paso and San Diego, it has forced many illegal immigrants to go through the Arizona desert -- a brutal journey, particularly for someone with no knowledge of the terrain. Would-be terrorists coming from Canada are not only less likely to be caught, they are less likely to die along the way.
There also happen to be many more potential jihadists in Canada. Unlike Mexico, with its negligible Arab and Muslim population, Canada in recent decades has welcomed large numbers of immigrants from the Middle East. And while the vast majority are law-abiding, Canadian authorities estimate that roughly 50 terrorist groups operate in the country. In their study, Leiken and Brooke identify three suspected terrorists who have tried to enter the United states from Canada, including Ahmed Ressam, an Algerian native arrested in December 1999 on his way to blow up Los Angeles International Airport."
I love my country, but seriously, this is just so out of hand now. To paraphrase The Talking Heads: "We're on a road to nowhere."
Because teenage pranks are fun when you're about to die!
You know, to report on any under-age drinking. Um.
Hey, it's working for Britain, right?
No, its not working in Britain either. Besides the fact that the cameras in Britain are for another purpose, lets talk about these cameras and immigration.
Britian is an Island. It is SURROUNDED by a physical barrier (the sea). Yet they still have illegal immigration. Why? Because the authorities are not serious about enforcing immigration laws or rounding up and deporting visitors who overstay their visas.
Any barrier or suveillance can be defeated if the guards don't give a damn. So there is a phone number. Big deal. You can take it for granted that reports will go into the circular file and be ignored. Having cameras or electronic surveillance does nothing unless coupled with a guard force that will then response to an incident. Having a sea barrier or wall does nothing unless you have a force of people willing to respond to breaches. A camera will not stop theft or crime or border-jumping, if it is generally known that nobody will respond. Electronic sensors or a virtual barrier will not stop anybody if they know that its all for show. Even physical barriers will not stop somebody if it is ungarded and they only need a ladder. If these careras are placed in "hot spots", then why isn't there a guard team there already if its a know "hot spot".
Only GUARDED physical barriers backed by the political will to do what is necessary will work. Otherwise it is just window dressing. The political will is lacking however, because immigrants equal cheap labor and political constituancies and everybody (or rather everybody with power) wants cheap labor to drive down wages or more people for their own constituancy so they can grab more power.
So now you can just watch as they steal the camera. I give it a few weeks before the cameras start showing up for sale on e-bay or El Paso pawn shops.
We can get the Mexicans to watch the cameras too
"The intention is apparently to use viewers as a kind of distributed processing network, with a free phone number to report border-jumpers."
Because it's really interesting to sit there looking at nothing in the hopes that you see someone that may or may not be crossing illegally.
I fail to see why this system is being implemented. Shouldn't it just have motion detection software with people paid to watch the cameras? Wouldn't that be much more effective?
Have you metaroderated recently?
Find an illegal immigrant online, then call your local chapter of The Minutemen to take em out.
I live in Arizona, and the illegal immigrant problem is reaching epic proportions. My wife works for the state health department, and the numbers that she mentions on how much it costs the taxpayers to subsidize these illegal aliens in just Arizona is mind blowing.
t ml/ mentions that it cost the US more the $10 billion in government services for households headed by illegal aliens. Good to know that my tax dollars are hard at work.
Just looking at a report on the Center for Immigrant Studies website http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalcoverage.h
The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel...
As long as people vote for parties because their dad used to or because they are the "right" religion or promise to lower taxes (no goverment can lower taxes, ever. It is a rule of nature, if you hear someone claim they can lower taxes you got a lunatic or a liar on your hands).
People voted for Bush because he was not Kerry. WTF? Bush started two real wars, a war on porn, took domestic spying to unprecedented levels and is bankrupting the county. What the hell could Kerry have done worse?
But Kerry was an intellectual not in touch with the common people. Right, Bush knows about as much about being "common" as the queen of england and since when do you not want somebody who is smarter then you running your country?
Bit like saying, well I don't like that cab driver, he looks to good at driving.
No, the world will keep electing idiots because voters are idiots.
It is that "average intelligence" horror thing. Think of a person of average intelligence. Now realize that half the people on this planet are less intelligent then that. Now realize that they have 50% of the votes. Get the picture?
Democracy is the dictatorship of the masses and the masses are dimwitts who think evolution is hocus pocus.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
That's why they build the narc-tunnels. They can, they got the money to not just do it, but do it while bribing or killing whoever gets in their way.
So, while the politicians build the cameras to protect the people from the "terrible, smuggling" mexicans who come to "steal their jobs", the druglords just come from underground and sell drugs to their children.
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever."
It's a futile discussion, both US and Canadian beer are like water. Let's get a few things straight:
1. Beer should be warm
2. Beer should have a taste
3. Beer should ideally have sawdust and maybe some mouse droppings in it.
4. Tea should be hot with milk & sugar.
5. Coffee should be coffee. Not a skinny latte mexicana american lightweight with 2 scoops and a stripe.
6. Feel free to slag off British cuisuine though. You're probably justfied.
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
Molson's and Labatts taste like corn and rice water.
Sleeman's is a little better.
I still haven't had a Canadian beer that can compare to Sam Adams, Saranac, Fat Tire or most microbrews.
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
The silence is deafening now!
Now all we need are web-controlled sniper rifles!!
On another notes:
1) The supporters of illegial immigration keep saying that this country was built on the backs of immigrants. True, but those were LEGAL immigrants.
2) Ship all illigal immigrants back to their home countries. Fill the job void with all able-bodied people on Welfare.
3) Ship all the people back to Africa who call themselves 'African-Americans' (they're AMERICANS unless they actually migrated from Africa themselves) and want reparations for their ancestors being slaves. My ancestors migrated (legally) to the US long after this. My grandfather's grandfather was the first from my family tree to migrate here. WTF should I have to pay anyone a dime? For that matter, WTF should they get a dime for something that happened to their ancestors?
Fsck them.
I would actually love to see an increase in border security, it is a screen door on a submarine right now. And yes there are plenty of other issues that also need to be addressed. But there comes a time and a place when you just have to start taking care of home. Am I crazy about the problem with illegal immigration? No. Do I think that there are plenty of jobs that need to be filled by this demographic? Sure. But if the problem is approached on a reasonable level it can be made at least workable.
The left is clammoring for rights for illegals, the right is calling for a fence. Why? When the middle ground makes more sense. Create a special category work visa, make it almost trivial to get one. Give incentives to the companies that already employ illegals to use the documented workers instead. Tax the income. This is simple and win/win. The work still gets done, and taxes are collected. If it is easy to do, you will drastically reduce the foot traffic over the fence. You can assume anyone jumping the fence really is up to no good and treat it appropriately. You reduce the human trafficing factor. I don't see wht this is so damn hard?
This seems to incorporate strong elements of social networking. I guess that makes this Xenophobia2.0 ?
This is the most asinine idea I've heard yet. The proposal to put up cameras so concerned citizens can "patrol" the border is nothing more than a gimmick to placate the electorate. The border patrol currently only responds to 10% of the calls they get now without the cameras! The problem is not that we can't find illegals crossing the border. The problem is that there isn't enough manpower to stop them in any meaningful capacity.
There is really only one solution to illegal border crossings. It's quite simple really. All we need are two simple chain link fences, running parallel to one another about 10 yards apart, with a good old fashioned mine field between them. Nothing says keep out quite like a minefield.
We (the taxpayers) would be looking at a cost of about $1 billion to construct such a barrier, a drop in the bucket compared to the estimated annual cost of illegal immigration to the US Taxpayers ($60-90 billion). We could probably build the damn thing with volunteer labor, reducing the cost. I guarantee there are more than enough angry Americans to do the job.
Having a substantial barrier would make the border patrol's job much more manageable. Identifying illegal crossings would become a snap -- just follow the explosions. Since the perpetrators would likely be rendered deceased, there's no need to deport them -- just leave their stinking corpses in place to serve as a warning to the next person thinking about taking their chances.
American's want a secure border.
They are gonna spend 5 million on cameras, how many cinderblocks or bricks can be purchased for that?
Unreal, our government is a bunch of mental midgets.
Anything to not prevent voters from coming across the border.
I'm gonna be sick.
Uh, maybe I'm missing something here. What's to stop the millions of looney-left immigration protesters from flooding this toll-free hotline with prank calls and false reports, reducing the worth of the $5+ million investment to zero?
And those who came over were obviously the best and brightest, and not religious nuts, farmers fleeing a potato famine, etc.
Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
Yeah, if Texans cared that much about being spied on, do you think they'd still be one of the states most favorable to Bush still? As long as all the surveillance is done under the name of keeping illegal immigrants and terrorists (i.e. evil foreigners) out of the country, the Texans would compete to see who could be first to be barcoded (as long as you put is somewhere other than the hand or head).
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
See hot and sultry Mexican women get sweaty!
See strong and virile Latin men strut their stuff!
See sexy uniformed INS men do their thing!
Help achieve Liberty in your lifetime - join the Free State Project - http://www.freestateproject.org
So I think there is something to the notion of not only eroded privacy, but also anonymity or whatever you want to call it. There's something disquieting about knowing that you're being watched everywhere you go. And, possibly, recognized, with your whereabouts and movements recorded.
Cameras along our borders is a nifty idea, but in no way can be by itself a solution to the immigration issues in the U.S. Also, who is going to respond to alarm calls when illegal immigrants are spotted via these cameras? The National Guard? Where else could we get that kind of manpower?
"Crude and slow, clansman. Your attack was no better than that of a clumsy child."
Instead of calling the government to snitch on border jumpers I could see a lot of people calling cousin Seth who lives near that camera to go take care of the mexicans texan style.
All those filthy potato farmers that jump the border to England from Ireland are being successfully stopped by border camers. Give me a fucking break you idiot tool.
"While the world's attention has been focused on the Israeli security barrier sealing off the West Bank, India has been building a far longer fence to keep out Islamic militants, thwart cross-border smuggling and stop human trafficking."
This sentence is enfuriating.
I don't understand why can't even a 3rd grade journalistic source tell the difference between an apartheid/concentration camp* like system in Israel sealing off the West Bank, and a border.
The two cannot be even compared, because they are totally different things. The West Bank is so chopped up into little pieces, zones and now the "fence", that it can take a day to travel 25 miles because of the endless checkpoints, cordons and fences.
*Israel's policy of separation closely resembles pre 1994 South Africa and also resembles pre world war II Germany, (first) making second class citizens out of jews.
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
Secondly, we need to see this for what it is--an invasion of our sovereign country. If it were anyone else anyplace else in the world, these people would be shot on sight attempting to cross the border illegally. People caught doing this should be shot on sight by Border Patrol or by citizens on whose land these wetbacks are trespassing.
Does Walmart still carry "Bucket 'o Bullets?" For those of you not familiar with the concept, you could buy a plastic bucket with something like 1000 rounds of 22 longshot for 10 or 15 bucks. It had the wonderful name of, no kidding, "Bucket 'o bullets."
At those prices, it's amazing there's a single street sign left south of the mason-dixon line!
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
Have a pretty girl do a striptease right in front of the camera, so you and your friends can sneak across the border behind her back.
This is not the sig you're looking for.
We would prefer they not enter intending to work and consume taxpayer funded services unless they're actually documented and paying taxes.
Most illegal aliens I know don't cost the state anything other than lost taxes since they are paid under the table. However, I would like point out at the housing boom was only possible because of these guys out there getting paid 1/16th what union labor would have cost them.
Most mexicans I have met have been hard working doing jobs that most people would hate to do.
However, this does mean lost jobs for Americans and money leaving the country and going south, but I'm not an economist nor a poltician and have opinion nor solution for this issue.
I'm just pointing out that our economy wouldn't have been so vibrant in the housing industry had we not had illegal aliens.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
What USA needs is to make trade fare, so the poor countries don't need to export their unemployment to USA any more.
I'm not sure that the political will is lacking. There is a serious confrontation coming between the two houses of Congress, and if that passes then between Congress and the White House. Depending on whom you ask, there is a strong minority to an overwhelming majority of Americans that want a strong border presence which includes physical barriers that can't be easily climbed, thousands more Border Patrol agents, and real enforcement of the immigration laws. The issue of a path to citizenship is all over the place, and I don't thing anyone can really pin down Americans' feelings on the issue.
The House is talking tough -- much moreso than they have in the past on any issue that I can recall. The House Republicans largely are telling the Senate and the president that they're going for an enforcement measure, and little or nothing else. Whether they back down in conference is a question mark, but since even many Democrats are getting the picture that the safety of their seats largely rests on their position on immigration, there is a good chance that either nothing will be passed, or there will be a very stern measure much closer to the House version that will be signed into law or passed over the president's veto (not that I think he has the guts to veto the bill; even if it's just enforcement, he'll probably call it a good starting point in the process and defer amnesty until next year).
You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
After a few protests, they might like to switch to the paintball version. Heck, fill the balls with florecent dye, charge users and you've got a monitored defence system that can turn a profit and mark folks for later pickup. Dang it, where's that patent application? This could be worth millions!
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
While I don't necessarily disagree with the point(s) that you're trying to make, I must point out that the Berlin Wall was meant to keep people in, whereas the US/Mexico "wall" is meant to keep people out.
(For the clueless, the irony to which the PP is referring is a statement made in Berlin by Ronald Reagan, a well-known actor, one-time US President, and currently dead man: "Mr. Gorbachev (sp?), tear down that wall!".)
Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
I still haven't had a Canadian beer that can compare to Sam Adams, Saranac, Fat Tire or most microbrews.
Try Alexander Keith's. If you're near Vancouver, BC, slip across the border and give Granville Island a try (excellent microbrewery).
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
it cost the US more the $10 billion in government services for households headed by illegal aliens
Well, these illegal aliens do pay some taxes (sales, for instance), and make much of what you buy cheaper (by working for lower wages) saving you from paying more taxes. What are those numbers? Do they fully offset this $10 billion you talk about? Do they more than offset it? Is it possible that illegal aliens operate at a profit for America?
Well, luckily there is a border guard which responds to people attempting to cross the border. I presume that the idea of calling in on the number is to alert the Border Patrol of a crossing that they can then attempt to stop. Yes, it is necessary to have a border patrol in order to stop illegal immigration. But they also have to have a way of knowing where people are crossing, and when. It is more efficient to have a means of surveillance they can then respond to than to attempt to have so many guards that they can see the entire border with their eyes.
How hard can it be to cut a wire or shot them out?
Any measure that is more expensive than its counter-measure doesn't work.
Why don't we just make Mexico the 51st state and get this over with. Then we could have cheap labor, not have to worry about them sneaking across the border, and lots of new cheap land for us to exploit.
Ninjas don't carry tic tacs
What USA needs is to make trade fair. Otherwise there will be always other countries exporting unemployment and misery to USA.
The amount of money comming from the US (I'm in Mexico), product of the innmigrants has been increasing in the last years, and is also a good and easy source of income for the country:
e co-1.jpg
http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2006/06/02/fotos/006o1
Figures are in Billions of dollars.
Unfortunately, you can't buy real Canadian beer in the US. If it's a Canadian brand that has "Export" on the label, it's just a Canadian brewery's version of what they think American beer drinkers want. The same goes for American beer brands like Budwiser sold in Canada; quite different from the American Bud.
I'd put Goose Island, Redhook, Fat Tire, Sierra Nevada, Sam Adams, Yuengling, and any of hundreds of other small, regional American brews up against the souile you export to us any day.
Agreed, I thought all American beer was bland swill until I tried some of the regional, specialty and microbrewery beers on a trip to Boston. There's good beer in America, you just have to look for it. Of course, the same is true in Canada (some regional brands to look for are Propeller, Sleeman's and Big Rock, at least IMHO) .
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
Really, it's something of a continuum, it's not binary. You can't expect all
your actions in a public place to be entirely public by the nature of the fact
that there isn't technology enough to record you.
Let's say you loiter at the mall. Okay, they video you hanging out at the mall
and you're fine with that. You expect to be that visible — you're in
public. But do you expect to have your heartrate monitored from the IR
camera, your conversations on your cell phone recorded by sensitive directional
microphones, and the objects of your gaze calculated from images of your eyes?
And all of this correllated with other occurrences of you at other malls and
stores that are shared in the master B2B "customers" database?
You have expectations of privacy in public spaces by virtue of the difficulty of
recording you. That difficulty is constantly diminishing.
Imagine cameras and microphones placed every half block through every
neighborhood you ever stroll through, and back them up with (increasingly
powerful) image and sound processing. Try to imagine how that feels different.
Wonderful day in the neighborhood?
No, it's not rocket science. Neither is it foolishly simplistic.
I'm not commenting on the specific issue of border cameras, just the mistaken
notion that there is no such thing as privacy in public space.
I'm trying to imagine the conversation on the "toll free number"
Voice on Phone: Thank you for calling the Wetback Fink Hotline! For English, press 1. Para Español, press 2--just kidding. Please hold and someone will...(click)
Operator: Wetback Fink Hotline, how can I help you?
Xenophobe: Uh, yeah...I'm callin' to report some Messicans crossing the border
Operator: Which webcam sir?
Xenophobe: Nuevo Loredo (pronounced in Texan: Nu-wayvuh Lor-ay-duh).
Operator: Can you describe the perpetrators?
Xenophobe: Uh, yeah...they're about 5 foot 3 with dark skin and a mustaches wearing a wife beaters and jeans.
Operator: OK, sir. We'll get right on that.
Xenophobe: Great. Glad I could help save some American jobs
Operator: Uh, yeah--like lazy Americans will every wash dishes, dig ditches, or mow grass.
Xenophobe: What? Where the hell are you?
Operator: New Delhi, bunghole.
(click)
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
3. Beer should ideally have sawdust and maybe some mouse droppings in it.
Bartender, bring me a beer and don't skimp on the Mickey(tm).
There's no place like ~/
I would strongly suggest we all leave right now and enjoy at least 6 bottles of Maudite (http://www.unibroue.com/products/maudite.cfm) per capita
After that, we will understand each other better...
Two correct uses of the word "irony" in the reply to the same post? Hell has officially frozen over...
This is about helping to control the border so that Mexican nationals that want to come to this country to work legally can do so, instead of having to wait for decades to get approvai to come here only to fight for jobs with scores of people who just wandered over 'cause they felt like it. If you can tighten down the border enough then if you find you need a greater influx of workers you simply increase immigration rates.
Controling the borders is not about terrorism (or at least it doesn't have to be). It is about fairness to people in other countries that follow rules.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Amen, brother. I wish I had mod points to give you.
Maybe there are a few areas where's there's so much regular activity that motion detection video processing can't be used, but since most of these cameras are going to be monitoring vast empty places, wouldn't it make sense to automate the detection of activity rather than relying on humans? In fact, I suspect that many people will do exactly that on their home PCs: they'll download images from many cameras, have the PC compare them and look for movement, then alert the human when something is found requiring attention.
Does Godwin's Law apply if the post is on-topic??
Soylent Green is peoplicious!
And what do you want to bet that the description that most callers report is going to be along the lines of "Well, he looked like a dirty Mexican"?
How hilarious. Except that the point is the cameras would be pointed at the borders and anyone crossing either way should be reported. No need to assume that someone not wanting people to cross illegally has it in for Mexicans, just people who break the law. Why is that a problem again? Are you saying that it should be legal for anyone to cross the border whenever they like? Not sure what you're getting at.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
How long will it take before ads start popping up in front of the cameras? I predict a lot of ads by the KKK and gun companies. ouch
Can I bum a sig?
So who's doing all those jobs in Hawaii, which has a very low percentage of illegals? How about North Dakota? Wisconsin? High-illegal states like Texas and California would feel a sudden lack of cheap labor for a time, but would rapidly adapt. Some jobs would start paying more, some would go overseas (using illegals is the equivalent of 'outsourcing' except we bring the cheap labor to the job instead of vice versa), some would vanish because they wouldn't be worth doing at higher wage levels. Lettuce would NOT be selling for $8 a head (it's currently $1 where I live). For an increase of $7 a head, they'd have to be packing each head in a UPS box and shipping it by air to my door.
6. Feel free to slag off British cuisuine though. You're probably justfied.
Britain has cuisine??
--- Asking inconvenient questions for over 30 years...
Unlike India, we are actually dependent on illegal immigrant labor to do jobs we just don't want to do, at a price we have made it illegal to pay for it. Stop the illegal immigration and prices will rise. Mexicans primarily cross for economic reasons. Mexico's economy is steadily improving. Rather than continually spending our money to keep them out, why not spend the same money helping them grow their economy so they don't have a reason to illegal cross the border?
*Israel's policy of separation closely resembles pre 1994 South Africa and also resembles pre world war II Germany, (first) making second class citizens out of jews.
Israel's policy of separation closely resembles pre-1994 South Africa and pre-World War II Germany only because you're an idiot with a befuddled mind.
Israel is pursuing the policy because the Palestinians overwhelmingly (>70% in most polls) support attacks on Israeli civilians, including school children. Israel is pursuing a policy of separation because most Israelis have come to the very obvious conclusion that Israeli society and Palestinian society can't be compatible when the majority of Palestinians want the Israelis dead. There's no hidden ambiguity behind the words "from the (Jordan) river to the sea". Palestinians aren't fighting because they are second class non-citizens of Israel. They don't want to be citizens of Israel. They want Israel wiped off the map and the Jews driven out (and most want the Christians driven out too).
Kindly point us in the direction of the "Illegal Immigration Assitance Office" in Mexico.
Mexican-U.S. relations aren't benign, I agree with you on that.
Mexico has been too many times to count on the receiving end of the stick to remember.
Ever heard of the time a draught changed the course of the Colorado/Bravo River a bit to the South and the U.S. stated they had "gained" ground because of that?
Do you really believe Mexico could get away with it if the river went up North?
Hint: they couldn't even dream of that.
After all, the so-called "strong" border some people want is all on ground taken by force from Mexico in the past.
Ri-ight, because most of our ancestors never "invaded" America, or deposited our "people" here.
And those who came over were obviously the best and brightest, and not religious nuts, farmers fleeing a potato famine, etc.
The difference, we took the land through acquisition - buying it from the French, Mexicans, and waging outright war on the Indians, which we have given them vast ammounts of land to call their own, and allowed them to do otherwise illegal activities (Indian Casinos in CA anyone) to try and make ammends so the far left will feel good about themselves. What Mexico is doing is equivocal to declaring war on us and invading us, but if we were to declare war and strike back, or in the case of us wanting to defend ourselves everyone things we are the bad guys.
When will you UN loving hippies pull your heads out of your rectums and realize that we have as much of a right to live and have our ideals as you do; and you trying to force your one-world-government, open borders, homosexuality for everyone and such closedmindedness on us is just as wrong as the KKK's white supremacy movement.
Erutangis ym si siht.
To avoid this, I think we should adopt the exact same border security policy as Mexico.
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
They still sell boxes of 1000 rds of 22LR from time to time for around $10, but I've never seen one called "Bucket 'o Bullets." The boxes I've seen are just run-of-the-mill Remington low-grade stuff.
.22, and I expect it'll last me through the next decade, if it doesn't corrode first.
.45 ACP for $9 as well.
Personally I won't use it because it's so underloaded, it produces a lot of misfeeds in semi-automatic guns that depend on the recoil energy to load the next round. I bought a box a few years ago to use in my bolt-action
The best deal Wal-Mart used to have going was 100-rd boxes of 9mm for $10 or so, when they were on sale. Occasionally they'd have 50's of
I generally don't shop at Wal-Mart because I'm not a big fan of their business practices and the extent to which they force outsourcing, but the majority of their ammunition seems to still be American-made, interestingly enough. (At least pistol stuff, I think they have more imported rifle ammo.) I do wonder though if by buying it there, I'm not helping them squeeze the ammunition companies offshore too, someday; I should probably just suck it up and buy it from an independent gun store.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
I can so see the Yahoo Widget for this. The video embeded and how many you have caught so far.
It comes down to:
"The square of dirt I happened to be born on is better than yours, so you clearly don't deserve to be here, fuck off!"
Every single person in this country immigrated here at some point in their family's history (other than native americans maybe), so in my opinion it's pretty ridiculous the amount of xenophobia in this "Great American Melting Pot".
Build a canal across the Texas-Mexico border. Connect the Pacific to the Gulf of Mexico. Now erect a large fence across the northern side of the canal - no more than a few hundred feet away. Pull troops out of Iraq, and have them stand guard along the fence - a few hundred meters between troops (train them to snipe on sight).
I guarntee that after this, we'll no longer have an immigration problem (after all, there'd be no way to tunnel under the canal).
But I predict a lots of cheap and quality cameras apear soon on mexican markets.
There you are, staring at me again.
... at these illegal immgrants coming into the country my great grandparents worked hard to get into fairly.
FYI, I see myself as American first and foremost, and my latino heritage does not conflict with my views on this matter. In fact, there's a growing group known as "you don't speak for me" which has gained some notoriety after the founder Col. Al Rodriguez (Ret.) held a press conference over a month ago. Look at http://dontspeakforme.org/ for more information as well as the cspan archives for Rodriguez's conference.
I see a lot non-latino (mostly white) "sympathisers" talking about immigration reform. I also see a lot of you folk on here talking about immigration reform as well, yet it surprises me none of you guys do a thourough enough RCA to determine the problem originates within Mexico's borders. Mexico has had problems with their economy and government(s) since day 0, the day of their independence. They have a true have/have-not mentality over there, plus there is the Indian population which is in constant rebellion due to the lack of representation. Bush seemed very eager to do regime change in Iraq and Afghanistan, but he should have looked closer and considered cleaning house in Mexico first.
Did you know that if you take nation by nation the count of billionaires, Mexico is within that top 10? That money they spend in the US is minimal compared to the money they wire back to mexico, which ends up back in the pockets of those billionaires.
Vicente Fox doesn't worry about government change as the weak US immigration policy bandaids the Mexican mess.
In fairness, NAFTA has more or less failed Mexico, or should I say "give everyone exactly what they wanted"? In addition, I've read a Chinese laborer in China works at 1/4th the cost of a Mexican laborer of the same job in Mexico. So will the people who use that "they do the work no one else wants to do" argument say the chinese are doing the work mexicans don't want to do?
Oh and you western europeans, don't even talk. I know you guys have much stricter legislation and what not against immigrants despite the EU being around. I also know specific groups are alienated, such as the Romani (Gypsy).
I'm really pissed off at you people.
There is already a system developed (at private expense) to do just that. See http://www.ushomeguard.com/. A series of webcams feed into a filter program which selects only those images which have changed. These screened images are then sent to multiple paid volunteers for further evaluation. Each image asks the reviewer "Do you see a person or vehicle in this picture", with Yes/No/Maybe buttons for the reviewers response. After passing these two hurdles, an image with "Yes" votes from multiple observers would be sent to the authorites - along with the camera location and time. Response time from image change to notification of authorities will be on the order of 30-60 seconds.
Britain installed cameras on the Mexican border to keep out illegal immigrants? Highly effective, Im sure, they probably haven't had a single person (illegally) enter Britain via the Texas/Mexico border. But I dont see that as a great investment.
Moreover, unlike India-Bangladesh relations are not benign as the US-Mexico relations currently seem to be, with a number of alleged fundamentalist religious organizations from Pakistan using the porous border to carry out terrorist activities on Indian soil.
But 99.9% of both Pakistan and Bangladesh (East Pakistan) are Religion of Peace members. Don't Indians know that Islam means peace. Why do they have to be so racist in their immigration policy?
Uttering logically derived and empirically supported truths to the disciples of the orthodox establishment.
USA=Third Reich Texas=Nuremberg Minuteman=SA Hay que joderse, y luego creen que España esta en Sudamerica.
I honestly haven't ready every single post here, but none I've seen talk about how racist this is. Some people do seem to see a problem, but the "white" elephant in the room never seems to get mentioned. Are they phasing out the not so covertly government sponsered minute men (who at least used to have direct links on their websites to the ku klux klan and other racist organizations)? I know polls show that most of the slashdot crowd are male, and if we are mostly white too, that's a very priveledged position that we need to be aware of. And don't forget that unless you are indigenous to this land, you are an immigrant, even if your ancestors were they ones directly killing every one here. Who gets to live on this land, maybe colonists shouldn't get to decide...
Oops. My reply should have been attached to the parent of the post it is currently attached to. My bad.
Uttering logically derived and empirically supported truths to the disciples of the orthodox establishment.
Mark my words. In the long run, it will not work at all.
What is going to happen is that, as the mexican economy plumets due to, very much in part, Washington's hunger in the 80's, more and more exodus is going to happen. The cams will be broken, tunnels will be constructed, walls will be climbed or even destroyed.
What needs to be done is continue with NAFTA and make it work like Spain or Italy in the E.U. Its politically incorrect because of the cultural xenophobia so very much interred in the american subcouncious, but its the one and only true solution. No matter though.
In 12 years, there will be more mexican blood in the U.S. than "classic" WASP. In that moment, reality will impose itself, and you guys will realize that we are more alike than different.
Our countries will have no option but to unite. You guys will be competing with a european behemoth full of cheap smart labor, that youll have to bring out from somewhere if you want to keep the relative hegemony of the world. That is, Mexico doesnt actually break down first (because this inmigration control "strategy" actually works) and you have to rescue it anyway, favoring an economic integration.
Im in it for the long run... it will be fun to see WASP's screaming and fighting and angrily beating and killing anything brown looking. But, in the end, as Ive said, reality will put them in order.
NO SIG
Me: Knock, knock Private Texan Ranch Owner: Yup? Me: I'm from the government, I'd like to place these cameras on your land, so that people on the internet can....report trespassers on your ranch to the border patrol. It should cut down on those armed drug runners who make it necessary for you to carry a gun when you go check on your cattle. And by the way, we will pay you to let us install the security cameras. see http://ushomeguard.com/ Most of the Texas ranchers I know are supporters of stronger border control.
I'd rather give up southern California, myself.
The great aztec, maya, inca cultures were happily minding their own business, building great civilizations and living in harmony, as where the native north american tribes. Then the white man came, in their case the spaniards. With deceipt, greed, malice these great cultures were destroyed by the wretched white man. This refuse now has no right, absofuckinglutely no right, to complain that these people are coming back, taking back what is *THEIRS*
--Rob
Towards the Singularity.
This could be a cool game. If you sposor some 'immies' with a mobile phone and then try and direct them through the border - while others are trying to direct vigilaties or cops to wack them or send them back.
Or how about hacking them feeds to a loop while your immigrants slip through ?
Kinda like bum-fights but real. It would be great if it was like big brother or Survivor and we got to meet the immigrants first - people could vote out the ones they don't like by grassing them up to the cops.
Can we install cameras at the white house so we can check out all the treasonous crimes there?
A fair point, but I think that the irony remains. A border wall is still an insult to other countries (and our own competence, I might add) and rather ominous. Remember the stink raised when Isreal proposed a similar wall to try to stop would-be terrorists from getting in.
I think they should also mount a rifle or something at the same location as the cameras. This rifle could then be controlled remotely from the web site by the cam viewer. This would avoid the need to have to call the violation in.
If there is a cheap benefit of doing it, like how Amazon Mechanical Turk paid $0.02 for store front identification, then yeah it would fly.
This could become Live Shot 2.0.
After all, Winston and Julia were in a "public" location - so they had no right to expect that they were not monitored. No problem here.
Now tell me why this passage makes my skin crawl.
Texas has such a huge prison population why not pay them $20 for every illigal they spot? That would secure the border pretty fast.
*yawn*. Yeah right, right. The classic nazi defense.
first post!
Think of all the calls you've ever made. Do you really want the government keeping track of their date, time, duration, frequency? You can surmise a lot from just this information.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Because the "Indian, Chinese, Russian etc. Doctors, Engineers etc" can get visas to come here legally and the illiterate even in spanish Mexicans can't. Even though they come here and work their asses off at a lot of jobs most americans won't for wages no ameican will.
The Indian, Chinese, Russian etc. Doctors, Engineers etc. also get jobs and pay for their auto insurance, pay taxes, etc. It makes a big difference if you live in a place where it is fairly common for illegal immigrants without drivers licenses driving unregisted and uninsured vehicles to cause accidents. That makes the insurance rates for the rest of us go up.
Then again, this is Slashdot, where the politically correct view is for the U.S. to provide welfare for the rest of the world.
Gov. Perry is one of the most inactive an useless governors Texas has ever seen. This move by him is startling because its a move at all.
... as long as the camera has a gun attached to it. And I can pull the trigger remotely.
Poor Mexican migrants, of course, are too stupid to figure out that there aren't any cameras on the borders between Mexico and Arizona or Mexico and New Mexico, or on the border between Texas and New Mexico either, so this should suffice to keep them out of Texas permananently. Good work there, Tex!
Publicy ???
Liberals would be able to use them!
I wonder how many people break into other peoples home know full well it will be blamed on illegal immigrants?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
1) employeers pay a tax to government no matter the nationality of the owrker
2) Farm workers are discriminated against when it comes to minimum wage laws.
3) Illegal or legal both people have the same draw on the tax.
4) Assuming a state tax, illegals pay taxes when they buy goods.
5) many illegal start there own business and pay taxes accordingly.
6) The numbers used to estimate the cost for illegals are imcomplete.
If emplyers are paying under the table they are committing a crime, a crime they would commit regardless of who they employee.
The federal tax code must be changed so you can never get more out then you put in. Right now, if you make 11,000 dollars you could get up to 5000 dollars back.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
"apparently to use viewers as a kind of distributed processing network"
if only there were a word to capture that... something like tae... tea... team!
> Britain has cuisine??
:-)
What? Didn't you hear him mention the sawdust and mouse droppings in the beer?
(Captcha: implied)
That sounds pretty xenophobic to me, how about you?
By the way, the country I was talking about is Mexico, and most of those law are actually a part of the Mexican constitution.
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
..that really gave me culture shock the last time I was in Paris.. Walking to the subway from the Eiffel Tower, I rounded a corner and came face to face with two police officers sporting M16s..
;)
Of course, I also have an excellent picture of a Parisian police officer TPing his buddy's car when I came around the corner walking to the subway from Notre Dame, so it's not all culture shock..
SYS 64738
Very well said. How we handle illegal immigration has nothing to do with how liberal our legal immigration policies are.
Actually, the stink with the Israeli wall was that it was built in contested areas.
The Great Wall of America should be built along the established borders of the nation.
Maybe if there wasn't so much cheap labor those jobs would actually pay decently and Americans would want them. Maybe if minimum wage was enforced there wouldn't be any reason to hire illegal immigrants over citizens.
Maybe if illegal immigrants paid their taxes we wouldn't mind so much about them recieveing free medical care, free education in their own language, free legal aid in their own language; free police, fire, and emergency services, and recieving many other social services for free at our expense. Oh, and if they wouldn't protest not having rights they don't actually have because they aren't citizens and would go and get their citizen application papers instead of skipping work, rallying, hanging our flag upside down underneath ours, talking about 'la reconquista' in our own universities they got into because of 'racial diversity' quotas (because different colored skin makes you different... right?) and affirmative action tuitions, maybe we wouldn't mind so much about them breaking our laws to enter our country.
Because most of us realize that life in Mexico really sucks and while we would prefer if you could fix your own country, we are mostly pretty hospitable people who would love to help you improve your lives. We just get a little ticked when people take advantage of that by acting like we owe them something (actually quite a bit of somethings) and not giving back to the pot they take from at all.
If coming into our country was the only law you've ever broken and you just want to work hard at an honest job to improve the lives of your family and pay your taxes as best you can, learn English to speak out of the home (do whatever you like in your but don't expect us to jump to learn your language to help you), maybe occasionally do some community sevice or somehow give back, and apply for your green card or citizenship as soon as you can, then by golly you're more American than many people I know, and I'd be proud to have you in this country.
Otherwise, not so much.
The 'Net is a waste of time, and that's exactly what's right about it. - William Gibson
Anyone care to donate a beowulf cluster for processing the video feeds?
We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion.
Didn't you people see the Larry King Live show that had Edward James Olmos, Jim Gilchrist and Sonia Nazario and they all agreed to what the problem was (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0605/15/lk l.01.html)??? The reason there is an illegal immigration problem from Mexico is that there is a push/pull effect.
The PUSH: The two class system of Mexico (descendants of European families being at the top with the native population being at the bottom) pretty much seals the fate of people born in Mexico. The general lack of concern of those in power in the Mexican government have created this slave class that has to fend for itself for what most of us in the US take for granted. No jobs or a possibility of a middle class type future pushes many natives or "Indio's" as they are referred to by the general Mexican-American population, to look for work in the US. (Side note: There is a difference in the illegals coming from Mexico and those who are of Mexican-American descent, but most rednecks and those in political positions don't seem to care to understand.) Not only is the Mexican government crooked in that politics are paid for by the rich, but also the law enforcement is crooked in the same manner. There is no "justice" in Mexico unless you have the money to pay for it. Lastly, Mexico is just as much a racist country as the US. Turn on any Mexican channel to see the color of the people on those channels. This is well known by mostly everyone who is of Mexican-American heritage.
The PULL: The slave owners, I mean middle-class households in the US is unwilling to keep up their own households or raise their own children so they hire illegals who will not give them "sass" or ask for much money. Greedy plantation owners, I mean farmland owners want cheap/expendable labor to pick their fruit/vegetables/wine grapes to keep their costs low and profits high. The general consuming public who buys these items at every grocery chain in the US also want these low prices. The general US citizen may complain about the illegals but they sure do want their cheap produce and wine. The indentured servant lords, I mean construction companies in the US want to be able to turn in the lowest bid possible to win government contracts and private contracts and they do this by hiring illegals who will not receive any benefits at all. There are cases where workers aren't even paid for their work.
The problem is caused by the US and Mexico hand in hand which includes all of us that live in the US. Everyone wants to complain about illegal immigration but what spending habits are you stopping in order to change things?
You seem to be confusing witnessing with spying/surveillance.
Witness is when you happen to be somewhere that something happens unexpectedly (to you) and you see/hear/experience it. You may or may not be engaging in responsible citizen type behavior by reporting what you witnessed whether voluntarily or by request. The OP is not in any way talking about this - why are you?
Spying/surveilling is when you're actively, purposefully on the look out for what you believe to be bad things and report them whenever they happen. That's what the subject is here, not witnessing. I don't consider this kind of activity by non-authorized/non-professional people as being a RESPONSIBLE CITIZEN. It's quite the opposite in fact. It's one ingredient in the recipe for a miserable, repressive society.
RANT
You know what a true RESPONSIBLE CITIZEN is? It's someone who understands and is behind the principles on which the U.S. was founded and doesn't sit by spouting xeonophobic, fascist nonsense attempting to justify corrupt, morally bankrupt politicians and businessmen taking the wizz all over the Constitution for personal gain, crumpling it up, shoving it up our collective asses on a nearly daily basis and then calling it ice cream. It's pretty much the opposite of that in fact - it's someone who takes a stand against such things when they're attempted or even hinted at indirectly as is happening here with this fucking bill.
END RANT
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you just didn't get what the OP was talking about. Otherwise you're engaging in defense of uneeded xenophobia, totalitarianism and fascism, to which I'd say - god, cowardly douche bag morons make me sick.
Texas Bordercam Streaking.
-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+ *** http://www.mountainfort.com *** +-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-
(BTW, it's "try to", not "try and".)As far as I can tell, it isn't Mexico (i.e., the government of Mexico) that is "invading us; it it individual citizens of Mexico.I do not "love" the U.N., nor do I support any U.N. "one-world government" (although I have nothing against representatives of governments getting together and trying to solve their differences peacefully).
I don't know where I gave you the impression that I loved the U.N.
I don't recall mentioning the U.N. at all.
And there's nothing wrong with being a hippie.I doubt very much that my head would fit in my rectum, although I have never tried, have no intention of trying, and am not the least bit interested in trying, to insert it into that particular opening in my body.
However, it is my body, so if I were so inclined to attempt such a maneuver, it would not be either your or any government's place to tell me that I couldn't try.I don't know of any reasonable person who advocates homosexuality for everyone.
Such a thing would lead to the extinction of our species.
If you are talking about homosexual marriages, well, the government shouldn't be involved whatsoever in restricting marriages of any kind between (or among) any number of consenting adult entities of any sex or species.
Any such interference violates the separation of church and state.HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Based on the rest of your post, introductions of pot to kettle are appropriate here.
Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
personally, I am against closing the borders. our country was, is, and probably will always find its unique strength in the diversity of its people. not to mention, the "original" americans (other than the native americans) were illegal immigrants, etc, etc. (we've all heard that logic, and its all very true). anyway, all an organization has to do to break the system is hire a small group of people to call in a series of false alarms. send the authorities to the middle of nowhere, many times, and then they'll stop accepting calls. if the authorities "fact-check" the callers watch the footage (if they're smart enough), then just hire more people to call and give vague times (like, "oh somewhere between 4 and 5 pm, not sure, but there were a LOT of people"). then, they'll have to watch TONS of footage just to see nothing. rinse, repeat.
So you're saying that we should pay for their tickets over here?
No. They'll pay their own way knowing that when they get here, they can stay.
Someone from Mexico can just cross the border. If he gets caught, he can try again the next day. Someone from China has to go through the legal channels because China lacks a border with the US.
There's a limit to how many immigrants a society can support. There are only so many jobs. Enforcing the border and opening up legal opportunities will allow non-Mexicans a fair chance to immigrate if they want. That will be good for the US.
First of all, someone from China does *not* have to go through legal channels to immigrate to the US. It may be harder for them to sneak in than Mexicans, but if you can't imagine someone doing so (or that many of the same motivations for doing so apply), then you sorely lack imagination.
Second, you still haven't explain how you're going to undo this unfairness of Mexico being next door. That was your beef, but I see no solution to this injustice.
>You have no privacy in public.
And yet, if you're like most people, you'd feel a little creeped out if a police officer followed you around whenever you were in public, taking notes and occasionally photographing you. There's a level of observation we don't expect to be exceeded, even when walking down the street.
Offcourse they might hide the usage stats of this surveillance system BUT that would be very telling in itself.
If nobody tunes in then it will be clear just how much support their is but if as I fear plenty of people will be willing to turn in their jewish neighbours to the gestapo, oops what am I saying, I mean turn these illegal immigrants over to the border police, then we will know exactly how the average american thinks about.
Oh offcourse this nothing like the holocaust (yet). I can't help feel that some indians are very confused about all of this.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The crux of the matter, however, is that the problem is much much more complex than that; you see, Bangladesh exists between, and below, Indian territory on both sides. India is connected to its North East by a stretch of land that's merely twenty kilometres at its thinnest, sandwiched between Nepal and Bangladesh. The result being, trans-shipments between, say, Agartala and Calcutta[*] take shitloads of time; while, in the years before Partition, it was possible to travel between the two towns with an overnight bus journey, it now takes at least seventy two hours to loop around Bangladesh, as it were, and reach Calcutta. Having an open border with Bangladesh, therefore, would actually be rather nice to Indian citizens in at least a couple of ways.
So yeah. Two different continents, two different situations. Let's not compare them. :-)
--
[*] - It shalt always be Delhi, Bombay, Calcutta and Madras when this Indian speaks in English. I pronounce the city-names differently in different Indian languages.
More than mere navel gazing.
unless they have enough border patrol and INS people to bounce the illegals.
Until then, the only use for the border-cams will be by the illegals families: "Hey look! It's Jose!"
Is that a SCSI connector or are you just glad to see me?
you still haven't explain how you're going to undo this unfairness of Mexico being next door
Yes I have. Pay attention. Here it is for the 3rd time:
- Enforce the border to make it harder to immigrate illegally from Mexico.
- Increase legal immigration to make it easier for immigrants from elsewhere.
The result should be a higher proportion of immigrants from places other than Mexico. I guess I don't know how much clearer it can get.
You are clear. You clearly sound racist when you say that.
You want to hinder Mexicans from legally entering the country as a way of making it "fair" that Asia is across the Pacific? You're comparing apples and oranges, here with legal and illegal immigration and you apparently seek to punish would-be legal immigrants from Mexico for the fact that their country shares a border with ours.
Pay attention, here: illegal immigration is illegal. It has nothing to do with legal immigration. Punishing one entire group because they're from a neighboring country all in the name of "being more fair" is nothing short of inane at best. Worse, it sounds (and may well be) poorly disguised racism. It smacks very much of wanting to allow in the "right" people and keep out the "wrong" ones.
Does ayone have the specifications on these cameras so I can get some preliminary estimates of their street value.
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