Apple Mac/PC Ads With a UK Twist

leppi writes "Japanese isn't the only language barrier Apple's decided to cross with its 'I'm a Mac, I'm a PC' ads. Those Brits love their 'shenanigans and tomfoolery' just as much as the next guy. Watch the Peep Show's Mitchell and Webb do the honors as PC and Mac, respectively."

Comments

Re:OK...

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

With some truth in them, too...

Bollocks - they completely ignore the fact that a mac is a PC.

Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[Anonymous Coward]

Also in Peep Show Jeremy (the Mac) gets laid a lot whilst Mark (the PC) gets laid about half a time before getting interrupted by the sound of Jeremy getting laid.

Generally though all the sex is rather retarded or twisted. Jeremy even shags Mark's sister, so I wonder what that's like ... maybe that's like a Mac connecting to a SMB share on a PC or something.

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[Saint Fnordius]

Oh my, I wonder how many people will think of that when they do "that new digital camera from Japan" cute girl spot...

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[Bralkein]

I saw this ad in the paper yesterday, and of course Peep Show was the first thing I thought of. The thing is though, in Peep Show, Jeremy is a bit of a pillock. Remember the episode where he tries to chat up some girls at a party with a line about olive oil? Something like: "So - olive oil! Fourth pressing? Fifth pressing? I always go for the first pressing. I mean, why wait 'til everyone else has had their fun with the olives?"

Also, "The bad thing", the "threesome", and everything else ;-)

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[blowdart]

And my immediate thought was "Oh, it's Mitchell and Webb from Radio 4". But then I am a PC user.

(For non-UK residents, or UK residents under 30, Radio 4 is the BBC's "wireless" [the old meaning of wireless, don't get excited] station which has news, politics and other spoken word programmes. None of these popular beat combos, oh no)

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[biffta]

For those left wondering, Peep Show is a British comedy from channel 4. If any of these ads even made you smirk I'd suggest watching an episode or two, they're fantastically original!

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[Cheesey]

Yes but Jeremy is a drugged-up idiot who can't get anything done. He's moved in to Mark's apartment because he can't get a job and is broke. And Mark is so uptight and full of self-loathing that he can't ever enjoy himself. He's neurotic and miserable.

You wouldn't want an OS modelled on either of them: it would either be useless (Jeremy) or no fun (Mark). To be honest, neither of them is in any way similar to Mac or Windows.

They just wanted the money so they whored themselves out. Nice work, chaps.

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[delinear]

Exactly what I thought when I saw this - Jeremy is funny not because he's "cool", but because he's trying so desperately hard to be cool (and quite often just ends up looking silly). So in essence, they're saying Macs are for people who aren't especially cool but want to look/act like they are (and don't mind parting with more money to achieve it), which is perhaps not the message they were aiming for. Maybe by choosing this pairing for the ads, Apple themselves are trying to be cool and missing the point somewhat, too? (On a sidenote, I love Mitchell and Webb, for all their faults).

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[KDan]

I was thinking exactly that, when I first heard of these ads...

I think the Apple marketing team has missed one essential point:

Both of the main characters of Peep Show are wankers!

That's one of the things that dawns on you as you watch the show is that the two characters are equally worthless human beings. You start off siding with Jeremy because he's cooler, but then realise he's a wanker, so then Mark appears slightly better because he's on the surface a bit more kind... but then he turns out to be a prick as well.

Which I guess is spot on. Computers are a pain no matter which one you use!

Daniel

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[deglr6328]

For some reason I can't remember what "the bad thing" was...........

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[Lars T.]

I was thinking exactly that, when I first heard of these ads...

I think the Apple marketing team has missed one essential point:

Both of the main characters of Peep Show are wankers!

That's one of the things that dawns on you as you watch the show is that the two characters are equally worthless human beings. You start off siding with Jeremy because he's cooler, but then realise he's a wanker, so then Mark appears slightly better because he's on the surface a bit more kind... but then he turns out to be a prick as well.

Which I guess is spot on. Computers are a pain no matter which one you use!

Daniel Actually Aple has got it right - PCs are for humorless twits who want to see a deeper meaning in the Apple adds when they are just light-hearted commedy not related to a specific commedy show.

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[somersault]

Or, you know, it's like they're NOT MEANT TO BE THE SAME CHARACTERS FROM THE SERIES? Most actors can pull that off. The only actor that just seems to remind me of the first place I saw him is the dude who played Agent Smith in the Matrix. Whenever I watch LOTR that's just one of the things that ruins it for me.

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[ph1ll]

From the article:

"but the pair do a good job of spicing up the commercials with a bit of dry British humor and sexy good looks"

I'm sorry but I'm British and although we've always got a joke to hand, we're simply not the best looking people in the World...

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[byolinux]

...and on Google Video.

http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=peep+show+ series

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[OriginalArlen]

Mitchell & Webb have a TV show?? I had no idea, I'll have to check it out; I've been enjoying their stuff on the radio for the last few years.

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[2sheds]

In addition to Peep Show, there is also a TV version of their radio show, That Mitchell & Webb Look, which is well worth hunting out.

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[mdwh2]

Well, the way I see it there are two sets of users: Those people who get on and use a computer to do what they want, and those people who spend their time saying how their OS is better, how rubbish the other OS is, and even going so far as to make ridiculous stereotypes of those who use the other OS.

Whether this group is more common on one platform or another is left for the reader to decide.

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[VJ42]

That's what I thought of first as well, and I'm under 30; I just like That Mitchell and Webb sound. Besides, Radio 4 is usually the starting place for good comedy. The Hitch-Hikers guide to the Galaxy, through Goodness Gracious me, to Dead Ringers all started on Radio 4. Along with the timeless classics such as just a minute and I'm sorry I haven't a clue, radio 4 makes good listening for anyone who likes good comedy, not just the over 30s (yes I know you were joking, but unfortunately, the "over 30s only" has a seed of truth too it).

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[h4rm0ny]

The main message that I'm getting from these ads, is that Apple are saying Macs are shite for doing anything serious or useful. And that's pretty much it.

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[Inquisitus]

Super Hans and Jeremy... "Now it's your turn."

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[Macgrrl]

The 'dude' is Hugo Weaving. If you want to see him in a really different role, find yourself a copy of "Priscilla, Queen of the Desert".

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[rkanodia]

I do *nix development on an OS X laptop, and the Apple ads piss me off for exactly that reason. "C++ GUI Programming Guide? Uh, thanks." Hey FUCK YOU, asshat! That's how I get my goddamn JOB done. It's hilarious. After all these years of being derided as making computers that aren't serious, Apple has finally created a system that is actually more of a 'computer for people who know computers' than Windows - and the first thing they do is spend a bunch of money on ads explaining how it's not a computer for getting work done.

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[StikyPad]

The only actor that just seems to remind me of the first place I saw him is the dude who played Agent Smith in the Matrix. Whenever I watch LOTR that's just one of the things that ruins it for me.

Perhaps, but I'm going to enjoy watching you die, Mr. Anderson.

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[TerryCarlin]

This will be even funnier with the Vista launch if you see that Mark (the PC) has badly dressed himself to look like Jeremy. Same old problems just tarted up visuals.

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[somersault]

Interesting - didn't realise he was the lead in V for Vendetta as well. I did recognise the guys voice but I couldn't place it. At least I didn't mentally hear him say "Mr Anderson" at the end of every sentence, like I do on LOTR! It's his stern facial expressions that do it

Re:Yup, these two are suitable PC and Macs

[C0rinthian]

Well, now we know what to get you for Christmas. ;)

But seriously, I don't think these ads are targetted at C++ GUI programmers.

Direct links to YouTube videos

[Null Nihils]

Because you can never have too much karma. ;)

Here, here, here and here.

Re:Direct links to YouTube videos

[JensenDied]

well in that case heres the .flv download links, if anyone cares
here
here
here
here

Re:Direct links to YouTube videos

[jellomizer]

It is not like the American versions are a crowding example of American Dry Humor. It is good enough to get a chuckle out of it and remember the adds and the point then it is good enough for the Add.

Re:Direct links to YouTube videos

[FirienFirien]

Why link to the YouTube videos? http://www.apple.com/uk/getamac/ are higher quality and in a more relevant place...

Re:Direct links to YouTube videos

[CDarklock]

> Why link to the YouTube videos?

Because QuickTime is "teh suck"?

I liked the last one, where the PC keeps freezing. Not entirely accurate, but it was funny.

Re:Direct links to YouTube videos

[Cal Paterson]

Personally, I refuse to use closed-source flash, and the "flash downloader" plugin for firefox allows me to watch the videos in mplayer.

The title is all wrong...

[bytta]

Shouldn't that be
Apple Mac/PC Ads With a Twist of Limey?

Re:The title is all wrong...

[purple_cobra]

I hope not, as that would make the originals 'regular Septic flavo(u)r'.

it's a catch 22

[macadamia_harold]

Japanese isn't the only language barrier Apple's decided to cross with its 'I'm a Mac, I'm a PC' ads. Those Brits love their 'shenanigans and tomfoolery' just as much as the next guy.

It's almost like they've got General Peckem describing his platform preference to Yossarian.

Translate for Linux

[Lotharjade]

Now we just need versions for the Linux/Unix/BSD crowd. LOL!

Re:Translate for Linux

[delinear]

Super Hans!

Re:Translate for Linux

[teh_chrizzle]

done and done.

Re:Translate for Linux

[Lotharjade]

That is too funny. I hope they make 100 of those things. Although one hinted of: "And one time, at linux camp..."

ROTFLMAO!

Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[pandrijeczko]

"PC" stands for "Personal Computer" which could be running Windows, Linux, *BSD, MSDOS, FreeDOS, etc. etc.

Perhaps Apple's marketing consultants need to go on a quick computer course - after all, only a Windows PC is vulnerable to the "140,000 viruses" and whilst, using Crossover Office, it's possible to run MS Office on Linux, this is not the norm.

In the UK, we have an Advertising Standards Agency that should stop misleading adverts - this looks to be a prime example for them now...

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[91degrees]

PC is has become a term meaning x86 based PC running Windows. That's evolution of language for you.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

PC is has become a term meaning x86 based PC running Windows. That's evolution of language for you.

So what do you call:
* A PC running linux?
* A mac bootcamped into windows?
* A mac running linux?
* etc?

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[rednuhter]

to little to late, the press have conveniently 'bent' thechological terminology and the new terms have stuck in the mind of the public.
Although I used to get annoyed about the miss use of 'PC' and correct anyone how spouted the 'windows PC' version, I now accept that the majority of the public know 'PC' as 'Windows PC'.
On the other hand I do not get fed up correcting people on the use of the word Hacker, miscreants that break into systems illegally are Crackers !
People interested in technology are Hackers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_definition_con troversy

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[moranar]

So what do you call:
* A PC running linux?
a PC
* A mac bootcamped into windows?
a Mac
* A mac running linux?
a Mac
* etc?
boh?

I'm not sure about the GP, but "personal computer" does include "Macs" for me, and is about the hardware more than the software I load on it. I do realize that for most people, PC means "with Windows", but anyway, what do most people know about PCs?

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

So what do you call: * A PC running linux?

"A PC running linux."

* A mac bootcamped into windows?

"A mac bootcamped into windows."

* A mac running linux?

"A mac running linux."

* etc?

"etc."

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[91degrees]

So what do you call:

A PC running linux?

A computer.

A mac bootcamped into windows?

A computer.

A mac running linux?

A computer.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

In the UK, we have an Advertising Standards Agency that should stop misleading adverts - this looks to be a prime example for them now...

Perhaps the Advertising Standards Agency should look at the last time they caught Apple bending the truth:

Apple Power Mac ads 'misleading'

Apple has boosted the power of its G5 machines
A complaint against Apple's claim that its Power Mac G5 was the "world's fastest personal computer" has been upheld by the UK's advertising watchdog.

The Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) said that the G5 was not the fastest computer "in all circumstances for all applications".

I note Apple didn't mind calling its PC range PCs back then.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[jrockway]

You've neglected to mention that Apple used to call their PowerPC-based machines... PowerPCs.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

So once you boot a mac into windows or linux, it stops being a mac?

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[zakeria]

So what do you call: A PC running linux? a computer A mac bootcamped into windows? broken A mac running linux? pointless

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[Corporate Troll]

No, but it starts being "a computer" ;-)

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

I guess I should've asked - does it become a PC, as PC is has become a term meaning x86 based PC running Windows

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Your logic is broken. Please visit your nearest Quick 'E Logic for a service.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[ettlz]

"PC" stands for "Personal Computer" which could be running Windows, Linux, *BSD, MSDOS, FreeDOS, etc. etc.

An x86[-64] machine running any operating system by Microsoft is a PC.

An x86[-64] machine running any operating system by someone other than Microsoft or Apple is a workstation.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[Duds]

And of course the Mac could well be running Windows too.

In fact, the PC could be running Linux and the Mac Windows.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[earthbound kid]

They mention this in the Japanese Get A Mac ads. The PC is like, "Hey, aren't you kind of a PC, too?"
The Mac, "Yeah, but people like me a lot, so they gave me this kind of a nickname, 'Mac.' Cool, huh?"
PC, "What!? I want a nickname, too!"
"Oh, I know, since you're so into doing serious stuff, they could call you 'Work'!" ('Work' sounds like 'Mac' in Japanese.)

It was a pretty cute routine, but it doesn't work as well in translation. Also, I'm just going by my memory. And I'm only semi-fluent. But it was something like that.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[StressedEd]

Although I used to get annoyed about the miss use of 'PC'
I know, It's just not very PC is it?

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[Zaatxe]

"PC" stands for "Personal Computer" which could be running Windows, Linux, *BSD, MSDOS, FreeDOS, etc. etc.

Oh, my... now that feels like Slashdot!!! Thanks!!!

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[Corporate Troll]

I was just kidding...

Personally, I think that the term "Personal Computer" is outdated. These days, all major operating systems are multi-user and most (home) computers are used by more than one person, hence the damned thing isn't "personal" anymore. All machines, Wintel, Mactel, Lintel, should simply be named "computer" and that's it.

So, if we really want to stick with the term, then all computers used by one person (or a family) should be called "Personal Computer" and that includes Macs.

But then, who am I to even have an opinion about these things....

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[91degrees]

I said "PC". Not "personal computer".

PC World magazine focusses entirely on Windows based systems. As does PC Home, PC Gamer, PC Plus, PC Pro, PC Advisor, PC Zone, and PC Format. If I tell anyone I know I have a PC, they'll assume it's not a Mac (quite correctly).

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[linefeed0]

That would be the least of the ASA's concerns... if I recall, the "I'm a Mac" ads play fast and loose with the truth in the first place. The ad that claims Macs "crash less" than Windows and demonstrates it by Hodgman "crashing" and "rebooting" periodically... says who, with what tests, hardware and drivers?

This American quite admires the ASA, or at least the idea of it... it would be nice to have the "commercial speech is free speech" decision overturned on this side of the pond...

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[abigsmurf]

I know at least half of those have linux and apple sections, not to mention PDAs and smartphones...

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

This American quite admires the ASA, or at least the idea of it...

The reality of it is not nearly as good as the idea. A few years ago I challenged the MPAA's ads claiming that "movie piracy funds terrorists!!!". The ASA accepted the MPAA's claim that an IRA member once got caught selling pirated cassette tapes at a car boot sale in the 1980's as evidence for that "fact".

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[91degrees]

At the other extreme, neologisms such as "lengthy", "mob", or "sham" are perfectly acceptable this century. Likewise, "computer" is understood as exclusively referring to an electronic device.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[Bertie]

Well, if they came out and said "I'm a PC running Windows", the ASA would be down on them like a ton of bricks because it would be an out-and-out slur on a competitor. "I'm a PC" is ambiguous enough for it not to be a direct jibe at Windows, so they can get away with it.

A big difference in ads between the UK and US is that unless you've got a hard factual basis for a claim that you're better than the competition, you can't say it. So Halifax bank can say "we pay 50 times more interest than Natwest" as long as it's true, but you can't say "we asked 100 people and they said Persil washes whiter than Ariel", because it's subjective. You can say something like "outperforms a leading competitor", and to me, that's kind of what Apple are doing here - they're positioning themselves as better than "the competition", without naming them.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[fermion]

I see it a bit different.

A PC is computer of IBM decent, mostly running an OS and software of IBM DOS heritage. Although it is a GPC, it most runs a single major business application, with perhaps a few other minor functions, currently web browsing and mail. The PC is mostly a GPC, or a jack of all trades computer.

Other computers may be specialized personal computers, workstations, servers, etc. Traditionally, *nix runs on workstations, not PCs. Therefore, Sun and SGI sells workstations. Some, like ATT, tried to sell the UNIX PC, but that did not fare well. Unlike the PCs, these machines tend to be robust and allow day to day flexibility.

Apple sells Mac, which are robust semi-open personal workstations. They sell a few types of machines configured for the type of work the users expects to most often do. This is not popular as MS pushed the multivendor multiuse computer model, which is a decent model for users, profitable model for them, but not a great model for hardware vendors.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[fitten]

You forgot AOLspeak, in general, but specifically:

its/it's
their/there/they're
dual/duel

and the list goes on...

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[JonathanBoyd]

No they didn't; they called them PowerMacs. The processor was a PowerPC, but the computer was a PowerMac

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[elrous0]

I hate nit-pickers on this stuff. I've got an anal-retentive friend who I periodically goad with "hacker," "PC," using "them" for the singular in lieu of "him or her," and (my personal favorite) calling 2000 "the start of the millennium." I just can't get him to understand that all language evolves and common usage is what drives that evolution.

My advice to nit-pickers: Lighten up, Francis!

-Eric

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[TheSkyIsPurple]

>"PC" stands for "Personal Computer" which could be running Windows, Linux, *BSD, MSDOS, FreeDOS, etc. etc.

So, are you saying the PC isn't a PC, or the Mac isn't a Mac?

You might want to have a peek at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_computer
"In today's common usage, personal computer and PC usually indicate an IBM PC compatible. Due to this association, some manufacturers of personal computers that are not IBM PCs avoid explicitly using the terms to describe their products."

Yes, I get your nitpick... it just doesn't matter. And it's certainly not misleading in any sort of sense the ASA would be involved in.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[mdwh2]

I'm annoyed by the phrase "for PC or Mac" - if it works with any computer and you fear people will assume PC means Windows, why not just say "for a computer"? And if you specifically want to say it works with Windows, why not say "for Windows or Mac"?

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[poot_rootbeer]

"PC" stands for "Personal Computer" which could be running Windows, Linux, *BSD, MSDOS, FreeDOS, etc. etc.

I'm pretty sure Apple was aware of this when they named their first flagship product "Apple II Personal Computer", thus popularizing the term.

If IBM had had its druthers we'd probably all be calling our boxen "x/5250 zDesktop Smart Terminals." For short.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it instantly becomes a fucking doorstop.

Honestly, Linux on a Mac is like caffeine free coffee or dry humping, a complete waste of time and/or money.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[SAN66]

They may have purposely used the term PC as opposed to Windows or Windows PC. If they specifically used Windows they can and likely would get sued by Microsoft. By using the general term PC they shield themselves. Kinda like how Bathroom Tissue and Paper Towel companies compare themselves to "The other leading Brand" and not Bounty or Royal specifically.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[Illserve]

Perhaps Apple's marketing consultants need to go on a quick computer course

I think they deserve a raise. Maintaining the hardware distinction between PC's and Mac's is critical to Apple's business model. The look and feel of Apple hardware is as important as the look and feel of OS X.

Keeping this distinction in the mind of the consumer is doubly important now that OSX can run on PC's and Windows can run on Mac's.

Kudos to a brilliant marketing strategy.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[Jesus_666]

People interested in technology are Hackers.

No, those are tech geeks. Hackers are people who are interested in (and preferably very good at) tinkering with stuff.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[soft_guy]

The last time I checked even a Commodore 64 was a Personal Computer.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[terrymr]

And you SUV won't stand up to being blown out of a volcano or driven underwater either - but there's a difference between marketing fluff and outright fraud. The apple commercials are clearly the former.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[terrymr]

Even if you accept that MAC is a subset of PC there's no harm in differentiating the MAC from other PCs in this way. Remember the adds for a CDMA phone provider something about "The clear alternative to cellular" - CDMA is just another cellular protocol not an alternative at all.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[Inquisitus]

Ugh THAT IS NOT EVOLUTION. An evolution is a change to better suit the environment, NOT a result of people's apathy and laziness. Please stop using that as an excuse to speak/write bad English and use words incorrectly. If we all did that, language would pretty soon degenerate into a pile of uselessness.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[Stormwatch]

The processor was a PowerPC

Trivia: IBM's "POWER" architecture is an acronym, it stands for "Performance Optimization With Enhanced RISC".

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[Stormwatch]

Personally, I think that the term "Personal Computer" is outdated. These days, all major operating systems are multi-user and most (home) computers are used by more than one person, hence the damned thing isn't "personal" anymore. All machines, Wintel, Mactel, Lintel, should simply be named "computer" and that's it.

Personal computers are distinct from supercomputers, mainframes, clusters, workstations, PDAs...

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[malsdavis]

"Ugh THAT IS NOT EVOLUTION. An evolution is a change to better suit the environment, NOT a result of people's apathy and laziness."

Actually, "An evolution" can be any sort of change, besides evolutions as the result of "apathy and laziness" are actually one of the most common "evolutions" observed in evolution (i.e. species gaining an advantage by loosing energy intensive features which are no longer needed).

While "An evolution" is a correct term, it could perhaps be better understood as "a mutation" and it can be any change good or bad. In no way does evolution imply a beneficial change, its just that the beneficial changes are what are mostly observed as over time animals adapt to better suit their environments as the beneficial mutations/evolutions generally allow those individuals to become dominant as they have a better chance to survive and reproduce.

It should be noted however that many of the unique aspects evolved into various animals (e.g. hair/skin/coat colour and other aspects of appearance), aren't necessarily beneficial changes just changes which happened by chance.

By the way, lynguists do tend to class such changes in the general use of languages as "evolutions", due to the fact that evolution is a totally accurate term to use for the gradual changes observed in many languages.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[iroll]

Quick test:

Go buy a box of "PC Formatted" floppies (yeah they exist, I'm looking at a box)

Put one in an Amiga.

Try and read/write on it without formatting. I'll wait.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[toddestan]

That's the Apple definintion, as Apple likes to conviently ignore alternatives like Linux when they bash the competition. I call a computer that is based on x86 processors, and is (mostly) compatible with the original IBM Personal Computer (aka IBM PC for short) a PC. Such a computer generally has a BIOS, and can natively boot up MSDOS if you wanted too, and its lineage can be traced back to the 1980's. While Apple computers now are x86 and can run Windows, they are different enough and break too much compatibility with legacy stuff to be a PC.

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[Corporate Troll]

True, and perhaps the better name for a "personal computer" is "home computer" (according to wikipedia, it is indeed an alternative name). The name is just wrong, that was my point. You shouldn't call it "personal" if it really isn't. My workstation at work is more personal (because I'm the only one to use it) than my computer at home because I share it with my wife.

Oh, and unless you have a high-end-unix workstation at work, I can assure you that a workstation these days is exactly the same as a home computer. Now, for clusters, supercomputers and mainframes, your right, but to the average person those machines do not exist. Ever tried to explain what a server is to a neophyte? The only way to do it is to stay abstract and use the real-life example of server/client, but you cannot show them a picture and say "this is a server".... Because, well, my "server" is a normal desktop computer....

Re:Apple get the terminology WRONG!!!

[nickos]

Actually that should work fine. :P

I love Mitchell and Webb

[kentrel]

Nice ad. Great double act

Robert Webb (on the right) usually plays the more fashion conscious but much dumber character, and David Mitchell always plays the sensible, educated intelligent character.

No wonder he likes PCs!

Re:OK...

[Mikachu]

Are the ads funny? Yes.

Are the ads true? ...not so much.

Come on, these ads try to suggest that photo albums and videos/music are only available on the Mac. Please.

Re:OK...

[cp.tar]

I said, some truth.

The OSs are different.

And Mac users really don't have to worry about viruses much.

Re:Japanese

[antifoidulus]

Dude, that was like the first sentence of the summary! The link was the first word! Is it that hard to read even the first sentence of the FRIGGIN SUMMARY! I guess this is slashdot and that is asking a lot.

The ads from Apple UK

[wenzi]

You can see them here in QT instead of YouTube

http://www.apple.com/uk/getamac/

Wanting it both ways..

[goldcd]

One advert makes the point that the 'PC' is a boring machine designed for boring office activities and the Mac is the free-spirited bundle'o'fun that'll bring joy an amusement to your home.
Then a couple of adverts later, they proudly tell you how your Mac'll run MS Office, a package which pretty much defines 'non-fun office stuff'

Re:Wanting it both ways..

[moranar]

Well, I think this is called "advertising", you know, where you try to make your product look better than the competition. Crazy stuff, I know.

If this was about fair reporting, the ads would have said which platform has the most games, wouldn't they?

Re:Wanting it both ways..

[esiminch]

hey, so apple is a fun toy, so what?;) actually I always felt like that about mac, so I get my staff done on linux. maybe it's a covered linux productivity ad?

Re:Wanting it both ways..

[malahoo]

Yeah it does both.
I use Ableton Live for Mac. My friend just got one. In 10 minutes we

• set up an adhoc wireless network with AirPort
• Used Audio & Midi Settings (part of OS X) to get the Macs to talk to MIDI each other
• Had his copy of Live on the Mac start & stop recording on my copy of Live.

Stuff just works. Much less "turn it (comptuer/program/driver) off, then back on" crap.

Also, the Live rarely crashes on the Mac, which was pretty frequent on my XP SP2 machine. Even when you unplug the cheap M-audio Firewire Solo, while recording, Live keeps running - plug the firewire box back in and you're back up. On my Win machine, you had to at least stop & restart Live (and often log out or reboot).
Plus, when a program does crash on the Mac, I've always gotten my data back. It's like they have auto-save built in to the OS.

My friend and I both have extensive sysadmin & programming experience on Win & Linux/FreeBSD.

The Mac is just easier to create with. Guy

Re:Wanting it both ways..

[mikek3332002]

That why there is this video Mac Gamer.

Re:Wanting it both ways..

[akf2000]

That's great, I've heard of this parody but not seen it until now.

Macs not doing games is the pink elephant in the room.

Re:Wanting it both ways..

[ben_rh]

I think that's the point they're trying to make.

Macs have it both ways, because they can do it both ways.

Whether you're talking about the contrast between fun and serious work, or between elegant, streamlined interfaces and to-the-metal programming, the Mac is happy to handle both ends of the scale at once, with no fuss and no interruptions.

That's one of the reasons people get so defensive of Macs and Apple in general. They're not perfect, sure--but they're really very, very good. And when people find something that they really like, they become passionate about it--whether it's a car or a sports team or a piece of technology like a computer.

A lot of people use this as an excuse to dismiss their opinion as worthless fanboyism. That's not fair. Rose coloured glasses might tint the scene, but they can't reassemble it.

Re:Wanting it both ways..

[Weedlekin]

"One advert makes the point that the 'PC' is a boring machine designed for boring office activities and the Mac is the free-spirited bundle'o'fun that'll bring joy an amusement to your home.
Then a couple of adverts later, they proudly tell you how your Mac'll run MS Office, a package which pretty much defines 'non-fun office stuff'"

That's because Microsoft is divided into two parts: there's a big bit full of boring programmers with beards who write Windows and software for it, and a rollicking fun part full of dudez who wear beanies backwards and swan around in phat trousers that does stuff for the XBox-360, Mac, etc. Even Bill and Steve have to go through a special "de-dullifying" process to visit the rollicking buildings, where their hair (or in Steve's case, what's left of it) gets muzzed up, their faces are sprayed with incredibly realistic-looking zits, and they step into high technology phat gear with an intelligent AI-driven skeletal structure that can automatically detect and respond to a high-five.

So although it would appear as if these ads are contradicting themselves, this isn't actually the case, because unlike its dour Windows counterpart, the Mac version of Office was written by people who knew that word processors and spreadsheets could actually be a fun-filled adventure for all the family.

And that's Computerwang

[91degrees]

Today our contestants are Simon, who's a PC, and Julie who's also a Mac...

Re:And that's Computerwang

[Plammox]

I take it BMX Bandit would be a PC and Angel Summoner a Mac???

Re:And that's Computerwang

[91degrees]

Yup. I was thinking those would be good names for my computers if I was buying one of each any time soon.

Re:And that's Computerwang

[Zelos]

If they can get us to brush our tongues, they can get us to buy a Mac: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlbSMclD6H8

Re:And that's Computerwang

[FooHentai]

"Zero"
"That's computerwang!"
"One"
"That's computerwang!"
"One"
"That's computerwang!"

Re:And that's Computerwang

[solevita]

My favourite was always Big Talk.

The week on Big Talk we've collected Britain's four best boffins to tell us which is better, PC or Mac. No debate, you're supposed to be intelligent, just tell me which one is better!

It would shorten the average slashdot article at least.

Re:And that's Computerwang

[kkiller]

No, that's numberwang.

What's it like?

[littleghoti]

quote: "Generally though all the sex is rather retarded or twisted. Jeremy even shags Mark's sister, so I wonder what that's like"

That's tickety-boo!

Re:Crashes

[Maud_UK]

Then you probably had a bad stick of ram, apple doesn't sell magical hardware that's immune to faults. It always amazes me that people seems to just think that when they buy a mac and it crashes that this is normal, it's not, there is a hardward fault or there was an error when apple slaped a copy of the OS on it, macs should never have system wide crashes like, ever.

hmmm

[TB]

"Hello, Im a Mac, AND IM A PC. Im all about fun on holidays, looking cool and being a rebel. IM ALL ABOUT GAMES. I dont have any games. I DO, INFACT I HAVE SO MANY GAMES NO MATTER HOW MANY OF THESE ADS WE MAKE I WILL ALWAYS BE IN FRONT. Oh. YUP. So these ads wont do anything to help MacOS? NOPE. Bugger"

Re:hmmm

[MartinJW]

Indeed - Traditionally the Mac was the professional choice (print, design, video editing etc) and the PC was the home user choice (Games and t'Internet).

Re:hmmm

[Xamataca]

Yes... the key words are "traditionally" and "was". Almost 15 years working at a design firm with PCs and I still remember those ancient battles vs. print service staff that screamed of terror whenever I came in with a PS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostScript from PC. It was curious that I had to teach them how to open it on their macs or send it to their (unixed) film printers. I've learned too: not to trust corel, back in those days, when it comes to intense and bloated vectorial illustrations that used to collapse every postscript rip... Those were the days... there was a real fight, and there were real problems between those OS/HW. Now it's only a matter of picking brands. Linux, OX or Win (and linux is at the point to be another solution for media creation... inskape, gimp, blender... etc...)

Re:hmmm

[laurens]

"Hello, Im a Mac, AND IM A PC"

So what you're saying is the PC is Death now?

Re:hmmm

[IntergalacticWalrus]

Newer Macs no longer have TPM chips (or at least they're firmware-blocked).

http://www.osxbook.com/book/bonus/chapter10/tpm/ (see "No TPM for You! Next!" section)

Also, keep in mind that TPM chips in notebooks is not just an Apple thing.

Re:hmmm

[IntergalacticWalrus]

This is interesting. Do you have any sources on that?

Re:hmmm

[ZombieRoboNinja]

2005 called, they want their pre-Bootcamp anti-Mac tirade back.

Re:hmmm

[Fulkkari]

Okay. So PCs have more games? So what? It took several weeks for me to get the the last two games I bought for Windows to run. Many hours wasted on asking for support, and they still crash and show bugs. And do I even need to talk about problems with copy-protection on games that I have bought? Seriously. If you want to play games, don't waste time hacking the binaries to get them running (legal original discs!) on Windows. Go out and buy a console. Period. I've bought my last Windows game ever.

Re:hmmm

[IKnwThePiecesFt]

Okay seriously, what games? I can't remember the last time I had issues getting a game to run on Windows.

Impressions?

[spectrumCoder]

I saw the ad on the side of a bus shelter in York as I was cycling past this morning. It had Mitchell holding up a sign saying, "I'm a PC" and Webb holding up a sign saying, "I'm a Mac".

Mitchell and Webb are a 'comedy duo' who first did a rather dark and twisted sitcom called "Peep Show", and then more recently a sketch show called "That Mitchell and Webb Look". In the sitcom, and the sketch show to a lesser extent, Mitchell is a dull, sensible, nerdy bloke with a safe boring job, whereas Webb is a partying, splif-smoking, foolhardy layabout.

Personally, I rather resented the implication that Mac users have more fun than PC users, but saw why they'd put these ads out - it's about reinforcing the popular image of Macs being colourful and 'fun' and PCs being grey, dull and run-of-the-mill.

Re:Impressions?

[Robmonster]

I think they first did That Mitchell And Webb Sound, a program on BBC Radio 4.

I loved them but now I'm packing my bags

[Cheesey]

I loved them too (Peep Show series 1-3, M&W Sound series 1&2, M&W Look, the M&W stage show, etc. etc.). But I feel betrayed by this awful abomination. At the height of their careers, why are they already at the point where they will do anything for money?

"Here's the deal, folks. You do a commercial - you're off the artistic roll call, forever. End of story. Okay? You're another whore at the captialist gang bang and if you do a commercial, there's a price on your head. Everything you say is suspect and every word that comes out of your mouth is now like a turd falling into my drink." - Bill Hicks

I'd hoped they were better than this.

Those Brits love their 'shenanigans and tomfoolery' just as much as the next guy.

/vomits.

Re:I loved them but now I'm packing my bags

[mgblst]

What a load of rubbish. "Oh, they are serious actors, they can't do commercials."You, sir, are an imbecile...an imbecile.

And I agree with the original poster, these ads do not betray their characters at all.

Re:I loved them but now I'm packing my bags

[Cheesey]

Yes, I'm an imbecile.

As I said in my post, I followed Mitchell & Webb's career from their work on Radio 4, through Peep Show, the TV series, the stage show. I saw them move from obscurity through cult comedy to become almost mainstream. They have never failed to entertain, until now.

As Bill Hicks said, doing a commercial makes you a sell-out. That's not so bad if you are an actor, particularly one who is short of cash, but it is bad if you are a comedian (like Mitchell or Webb) and it is worse if you are not short of cash. Remember, they're at the height of their career. They've got a film coming out soon. Further episodes of Peep Show and M&W Look are guaranteed. They've made it. They don't need to do ads.

Now we know they will say anything they are paid to say. They are not comedians, they are corporate shills. They are sell-outs. The distinction is important to me, as a long-time fan of their work. It means that all their future work is coloured by the possibility that they've been paid to have a particular opinion or say a particular thing.

It may not matter to you - for all I know, you may never have heard of them before - but it matters to a fan. It's a bit like discovering that Mr Lucas turned your favourite space-based film saga into a toy advert. It's almost that disappointing.

This is about integrity. It's not about betraying their characters - it's about betraying themselves. I didn't expect Mitchell and Webb to sell out until their careers hit the rocks, but I was wrong.

But such things shouldn't matter, right? People like Bill Hicks and myself are just morons for thinking that integrity is important. Me, sir? I'm just an imbecile.

Re:I loved them but now I'm packing my bags

[kentrel]

As Bill Hicks said, doing a commercial makes you a sell-out. That's not so bad if you are an actor, particularly one who is short of cash, but it is bad if you are a comedian

Woody Allen and John Cleese must be sell-out hacks then... I love Bill Hicks, but he also genuinely believed he was abducted by aliens. His word isn't scripture.

If, as a fan (allegedly) you no longer think their work is valid simply because they've done a commercial then you're more than welcome to find some new obscure comedy group (or indie band) and worship them so that you can thump your chest (as all snobs like to do) some years from now and say how they were "much better before they went commercial".

Sigh.

Heard it.

Re:I loved them but now I'm packing my bags

[Zelos]

You probably should have packed your bags earlier, then. David Mitchell has done voiceover work for adverts in the past: poppadoms and mouth ulcer cream are two I remember off the top of my head.

Re:I loved them but now I'm packing my bags

[Cheesey]

Heh, I guess you're right. I don't watch much TV, apart from things I actually want to watch, so I only find out about these things when they turn up online.

Re:I loved them but now I'm packing my bags

[GilesP]

Of course, the fact that both of them have done numerous voice overs in ads (both tv and radio) for ages means they became "sell outs" a while back.

It doesn't detract from the fact that they produce some damned funny work and will no doubt continue to do so for some time to come. Besides, why shouldn't they make some money while they are at the "height" of their careers? If the only way is down as you imply, then they'll need something in the old retirement fund.

Re:I loved them but now I'm packing my bags

[Saint Fnordius]

I think Bill Hicks was only pissed that nobody met his price to do commercials. Besides, ranting against the "sell-outs" has always been an easy way to establish your indie credentials.

Re:I loved them but now I'm packing my bags

[networkz]

Cheesey, you're like a loose cannon with a set of rampant badgers inserted in the barrel.

It's not going to compromise M&W, lets face it. If so, they would have already gone to pot.

Re:I loved them but now I'm packing my bags

[mgblst]

You are worried that they might go the same way as Pin and Chip. These adds aren't a huge jump from the regular characters that they have played.

Re:I loved them but now I'm packing my bags

[aristotle-dude]

Woody Allen and John Cleese must be sell-out hacks then...

Yes they are. Unfunny, tedious, awful. Well then you should get along famously then because that is exactly what you are.

Re:I loved them but now I'm packing my bags

[Cheesey]

Well then you should get along famously then because that is exactly what you are.

Nice! That'll teach me for having an opinion that was different to yours.

To be honest I can only imagine that you haven't seen any of Mr Cleese's work since sometime around the mid-Nineties, when it became quite obvious that whatever spark he had once possessed was long gone. Which I think is very sad as I am a great fan of his work with Python, Fawlty Towers and the various films that he starred in before about 1990. He might just have got old, or he might have found that doing commercials was easier than being creative and interesting.

Which is exactly my complaint about Mitchell and Webb. Doing comedy ads is a dark portent of impending creative bankruptcy for any comedian.

Re:I loved them but now I'm packing my bags

[aristotle-dude]

Listen pal. You are judging people for trying to put food on the table and get ahead in life. Do you work for money? Are you a sell out? What give you the right to judge other people differently than you would be judged just because they are in the entertainment business? Did you notice the world "business" at the end of it? None of these people you put on a pedestal are in it just to provide you with joy and happiness. They are also there to make a living while doing something they enjoy.

Re:Crashes

[pnaro]

Amazing. Slashdot is going the way of Digg. I agree with the other poster and the ram. The below uptime is on a network with shares and has 2 FW drives.

paul$ uptime
  3:46 up 107 days, 28 mins, 3 users, load averages: 1.41 1.16 1.13

Re:Crashes

[admactanium]

Or he tried to plug a firewire drive in. Every one I've tried blackscreens the mac instantly (identical to a bluescreen only it's black).

huh? i have 3 firewire drives right here attached to my powermac (one firewire ipod, a fw800 raid and a fw400 bus-powered 2.5" portable). the portable travels with me when i work out of town. thatdrive was plugged into my powerbook, my employer's powermac g4 and my copywriter's ibook g4 all within half an hour and not one kernal panic. in the 6 years i've been using os x (back through to public beta) i've had about 5 kernal panics. most of those in the early days.

i haven't had a kp in about 3 years and i'm constantly hot-swapping firewire drives on all these machines. i'd venture to say i swap a firewire hard drive onto one machine or another about once a day and never have a problem. i also commonly power my external raid on and off which connected to the firewire port with no issues either.

How about a third character???

[pandrijeczko]

"I'm Linux and I'm free. And whilst you two have been busying yourselves arguing with each other, I've finished all of what I needed to do and I'm now off to the pub to spend the money I didn't spend on an operating system on a few pints of beer for myself."

Re:How about a third character???

[Fross]

yeah right.

more like "while you were arguing i've rebuilt my kernel, written my own drivers so now i can plug in my digital camera, and written a script to sort through my family photos, because i haven't got any software like iPhoto to do it all for me. but that's fun because i enjoy rebuilding my machine, and writing perl! maybe if i get some downtime i'll try to get my soundcard working. again."

if you want to pander to stereotypes :)

Re:How about a third character???

[D4rk Fx]

"I've finished all of what I needed to do and I'm now off to the pub to spend the money I didn't spend on an operating system on a few pints of beer for myself."

Last time I spilled beer in my Linux computer, it wasn't too happy about it...

Re:How about a third character???

[slim]

written a script to sort through my family photos, because i haven't got any software like iPhoto to do it all for me. iPhoto didn't work like I expected. So I spent 2 hours trying to persuade Automator to drive it the way I wanted. Then I decided Automator couldn't do it either. So then I broke out AppleScript, and after another 2 hours, I'd made AppleScript drive iPhoto to do what I needed.

If I'd just cobbled together some Perl in the first place, I'd have had another 3 hours in the pub, like the GP suggested.

Re:OK...

[LKM]

Come on, these ads try to suggest that photo albums and videos/music are only available on the Mac. Please.

No. They do suggest that this stuff is easier on a Mac. Which is true.

Re:Quicktime 7 is required....

[Rik Sweeney]

.. Presses Back button.

The sooner video formats stop being political footballs and start 'just working' the better.

Works fine in MPlayer...

Name calling

[DrYak]

So what do you call:
* A PC running linux?

The Way.

* A mac bootcamped into windows?

An abomination.

* A mac running linux?

Redemption.

* etc?

AmigaOS.

Perfect duo to advertise Apple

[99luftballon]

One's a smug, self-important wanker and the other's a pretentious git. Sounds perfect for Apple. Sorry, having a bad day.

The age old "PC is only for office work"

[FlashyGustaf]

The whole "PCs are only good for boring office type work" angle might have actually been believable back in the mid to late 80's when that is exactly how the "IBM Compatible" PCs were already widely perceived by the general public. But now anybody with an IQ greater than that of a chimp knows better. I'm not particularly for or against Mac but at the very least on this point they are about 20 years too late for this to be a usable marketing angle.

Re:The age old "PC is only for office work"

[Overzeetop]

I was watching Charlotte's Web (the old animated one) with my 4 year old over the weekend - the frist time since I was a kid. After the first message "Some Pig" was spun in a web by Charlotte, the farmer remarked that Wilbur must, indeed, be a "some" (special) pig. The farmers' wife remarked that (Charlotte) must be some spider, to which the farmer quickly corrected her, as the web clearly stated that it was the pig that was special. In Charlotte's own words, humans will believe anything they read. I this case, they'll believe anything they see on TV.

You see, if you create enough buzz around something, that buzz becomes truth. It needn't be strictly true, but only needs some grain of veracity, rumor, innuendo, or stereotype to work off of.

It's a brilliant marketing angle, and with enough staturation will take hold (we're discussing it, right?).

A similar marketing campaign could easily be made for sub-Saharan Africans as the ideal manual laborer, or Indians solving all of your IT needs. Actually, I guess most of what we would use the former for is more likely to be done by "Mexicans" - which is what my in-laws call anyone from South- or Central America who works on a construction site. Excuse me, "illegal Mexicans". Of course, it's total bullshit, but that's marketing in a nutshell.

Re:PC or gaming PC?

[dunkelfalke]

not really

No, it hasn't

[jotaeleemeese]

People with a modicum of technology awareness make ask you if it is a Windows or Apple PC. Here we know it can be anything really.

Heartfelt suggestion.

[jotaeleemeese]

Do not go into markeeting.

Ever.

Most ads suck

[yeber]

and I would include the mac ones. I am a mac user and always have been, but the way these ads are presented does nothing but perpetuate the fanboi propoganda.

Re:Most ads suck

[GospelHead821]

That is true. On the other hand, they're at least an amusing presentation of the fanboi propaganda. To me, that's about as high as an advertisement can aspire - to be funny. After all, they'd barely be advertisements if they aspired to faithfully representing only the facts.

Whhat the real advert should have looked like

[TractorBarry]

Hmmm.... I think the real advert would have featured 4 people.

1 I'm a Windows PC. I'm a crappy, bug riddled, OS which crashes frequently and is prone to getting "pwned" by 6 year old kids using copy & paste scripts. I'm a slut with syphilis.

2 I'm a MAC PC. I'm a reliable, pretty OS that only runs on overpriced hardware. I'm an effete snob.

3 I'm Linux. I'll run on almost anything but most of my desktop applications are simply not as good or usable as their Windows/MAC equivalents. I don't need consistency because everyone should "just do their own thing". I'm a hippy.

4 I'm *BSD. I spend most of my time locked in a cupboard quietly and reliably running all the important things on some old crappy hardware. I'm that weird guy down the road with an IQ of 260 and who's building a space shuttle out of old car parts.

Bah... If you ask me all PC operating systems are a bit crappy. If only we could have something which combined the development speed and hackability of Linux, the reliability and security of *BSD, the beauty of OSX and the consistency of behaviour and range of desktop programs of Windows. All running on commodity hardware. Maybe one day ?

Re:Whhat the real advert should have looked like

[waif69]

Isn't that what Java was supposed to present to the user?

Re:Whhat the real advert should have looked like

[nine-times]

Bah... If you ask me all PC operating systems are a bit crappy. If only we could have something which combined the development speed and hackability of Linux, the reliability and security of *BSD, the beauty of OSX and the consistency of behaviour and range of desktop programs of Windows. All running on commodity hardware. Maybe one day ?

It seems to me that things are better than you think. Maybe Linux isn't quite as secure and reliable as some of the BSDs, but it's pretty close. I'm not sure why *BSD doesn't have, in your estimation, the development speed and hackability of Linux, but admittedly I'm not a developer. Gnome and KDE are getting prettier and better all the time, available on Linux, BSDs, and OSX. Finally, OSX is a variant of BSD, is as pretty as OSX, has a wide range of software and consistent behavior, and from what I've heard has nice development tools (again, I'm not a developer). The only thing OSX seems to be lacking is the non-free GUI and inability to run that GUI on commodity hardware.

If you ask me, the single thing hurting the desktop OS ecosystem is the lack of truly cross-platform development. The operating systems themselves are fine (though perhaps the real strength of Windows is for games, with DirectX and all).

Re:PC or gaming PC?

[stud9920]

When was the last time you played an RTS on a console?

Re:So much fun yet.....

[hey!]

Where are all the fun mac games to buy? I'll leave it at that.

Well, there's Xcode. Or do you mean just those games where you shoot at on screen characters?

I just got my MacBookPro today...

[kalpaha]

And man, I'm feeling more hip and cool by the minute...

Upgrade Commercial

[klwood911]

I had a friend bring up this point and I have to agree. There is one commercial where PC is talking about going in for an Upgrade for Vista. The one thing MAC lacks to mention is that if apple decides to release a new version of OS, have their line can't run in and the MAC needs to be replaced. I can see it now (in it's corrected version):

MAC: Hi PC
PC: Hi MAC
MAC: What are you up to?
PC: I'm going in to have some memory added and a new video card installed so I can run Vista.
MAC: Sounds rough.
PC: Hey, what about OS 10.5, isn't that coming out soon?
MAC: Yeah
See MAC go flying into a garbage can and a new bling laden MAC enter screen right.
MAC-New: Yoh, check out all this money I'm wearing.
PC: Nice.

The End

Re:Upgrade Commercial

[forel]

The one thing MAC lacks to mention is that if apple decides to release a new version of OS, have their line can't run in and the MAC needs to be replaced. This is incorrect (and I'll ignore the errors in your writing). I have a 5 year old iBook G3 (600 mhz) that runs Mac OS X 10.4.8 quite well, no slowdown whatsoever. It will be running Leopard (10.5) when it is released. I also had previously a PowerMac G3 300 that was designed for and shipped with Mac OS 8.5 that ran Mac OS X 10.3 very, very well.
Macs (not "MAC" - Macintosh vs. MAC (Media Access Control) Address) age very well compared to Windows computers and usually run newer versions of Mac OS with few or no issues.

A new ad! Very newsworthy indeed.

[StephanTual]

What's so newsworthy about this? Would have linked to an Nike ad if it had Mitchell and Webb in it? Didn't think so.

Re:A new ad! Very newsworthy indeed.

[StephanTual]

No actually, I'm pretty sure I didn't miss the point at all. It's an ad. An advertisement. A corporate message. Sure it's presented all cutesy and faux-naive, but that's part of the corporate message, too. An advertisement is rarely factual and never newsworthy.

So, I'll ask the question again, but with more geeky angle. Why no similarly-presented (read: introduced in a positive 'isn't this delightful' kinda way') links to Microsoft ads?

Re:OK...

[Sj0]

ITT: The truth about Mac vs. PC.

"
Mac: I'm a Mac.
PC: And I'm a PC.
Mac: And I'm a PC.
PC: What?
Mac: Oh, I can run the latest version of Windows XP just like you!
PC: But wouldn't that make me more secure than you, since I've got an Nforce4 Ultra motherboard, so I get Nvidia ActiveArmour installed from the moment my network card starts to function?
Mac: But I AM very pretty."

"
Mac: I'm a Mac.
PC: And I'm a PC. I'm just trying to talk to the latest peripherals.
Mac: I can do that too..
PC: What?
Mac: Oh, I can talk to that sexy little camera from Japan!
Japanese Girl: Ohaiou Gozaimashda!
Mac: Domo!
PC: Hey Samsung-san, what operating system were the people who created you using?
Japanese Girl: windosu ecksupee-san!
PC: Ah, arigatou.
Mac: But I AM very pretty."

Peep Show

[caluml]

Mitchell, and Webb, for the non-UKians here do a very funny show called Peep Show which I only found out a few months ago, and have been raving about ever since!

same old same old

[tomstdenis]

It's the old ads with british accents. The least they could have done is written new ones with allusions to brit society...

And is it me or does the mac not really look that hip compared to the american ads?

Tom

Re:same old same old

[Lars T.]

It's the old ads with british accents. The least they could have done is written new ones with allusions to brit society...

And is it me or does the mac not really look that hip compared to the american ads?

Tom The US adds were talking about how the people in Britain were working longer hours than in any other country in Europe?

Or did they further divide "Hijincks" into "Capers, monkey-business and just larking about"?

Re:same old same old

[tomstdenis]

Bah, minor dialogue changes. The plot was the same.

At least one ad should have had techno/trance playing in the background....

Re:same old same old

[Lars T.]

Bah, minor dialogue changes. The plot was the same.

At least one ad should have had techno/trance playing in the background....

Well, if you say that making a completly new add ("Tentacle") is just "minor dialogue changes" ...

Re:same old same old

[tomstdenis]

Null Set: Definition. The set of people who asked for your opinion.

Re:same old same old

[Lars T.]

Sorry to point out that you were WRONG. Not that anybody wanted to know whether you wanted to know that people know.

Re:How about a third character??? Here it is :)

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a Mac vs PC (and introducing a 3rd character.... LINUX yeeeah :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-L-0s-7-Z0&eurl=

Found it via this link (with other parodies):
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/press/top-5-im-a-mac-pa rody-commercials-222404.php

Canadian version?

[khendron]

If they are going to come out with versions for each country, the Canadian version will probably be patterned after Bob and Doug McKenzie

Bob: G'day! I'm a Mac!
Doug: And I'm a PC, eh?
Bob: Today I'm gonna show you how I can run Microsoft Office applications, eh?
Doug: No way, eh?! That's my job!
Bob: Take off! Look at this chart that shows how much beer and back bacon I need to get me through the Stanley Cup Playoffs, eh?
Doug: You hoser! That's not enough beer!
Bob: Take off!

After that they can do commercials using Red Green and the Trailer Park Boys.

Orange Drink?

[mobby_6kl]

Riiight.

"Oh, you know what Bill's doing, he's going for that indie dollar. That's a good market, he's very smart."

Oh man, I am not doing that. You fucking evil scumbags!

"Ooh, you know what Bill's doing now, he's going for the righteous indignation dollar. That's a big dollar. A lot of people are feeling that indignation. We've done research - huge market. He's doing a good thing." ...

Virus ad

[PadRacerExtreme]

I thought the 3rd one down (the virus) was really funny.

I'm going to crash now....

And yet...

[stubear]

...they're still full of sh!t. What Apple fails to realize, or they do yet insist on falsely representing the facts, is that PCs are not made by Microsoft, only the OS is and even then not every PC uses Windows. The Vista upgrade ad is especially annoying considering the upcoming release of Leopard. How long do you think developers are going to support universal binaries? Leopard may be built to run on G4s and G5s as well as the Intel Macs but the G4s are not going to perform very well and the G5s are going to require more RAM. I'm using Tiger on a 1.8 G5 at work and it's sluggish at times. The video camera is another stupid Mac ad. Who cares if a notebook comes with a camera? Yet another feature Apple crams down your throat, increasing the cost of the system. Not to mention that PCs notebooks had cameras built-in to them before Apple did. Many manufacturers still put them in. I'm about to purchase a Dell M2010 and it's got a camera built-in. If that's the sort of feature you need in a PC then there are plenty of options available. Let's also not forget Apple initial solution for the camera on the notebook, the huge iSight that clipped onto the top edge of the notebook monitor. Not exactly an elegant solution.

Re:And yet...

[10bellies]

...they're still full of sh!t. What Apple fails to realize, or they do yet insist on falsely representing the facts, is that PCs are not made by Microsoft, only the OS is and even then not every PC uses Windows. That's true, but what does the normal 'man in the street' think when they think of PCs? That's right, Microsoft. Whether you like it or not XP & Vista are synonymous with what a PC 'is' as most non-geek people can't separate the OS from the hardware, let alone even know what any of the (many, many) flavours of Linux are.

Re:And yet...

[iangoldby]

Who cares if a notebook comes with a camera? Yet another feature Apple crams down your throat, increasing the cost of the system.

If you really don't want a camera then, buy a Dell or something.

I'm about to purchase a Dell M2010 and it's got a camera built-in.

<confused>

Re:And yet...

[stubear]

I'm not specifically looking for a notebook with a camera, it just so happens that the M2010 has one so there goes the Mac ads inference that only macs come pre-built with a camera in them. PCs did this BEFORE Apple anyway. As for my initial comment about who cares, Apple makes it seem like this is a killer feature of their notebooks. I doubt many Mac users turn the camera on except to play with the Photo Booth. I'd wager that the statistical margin of error would dwarf the number of users using iChat A/V (i.e. 1% of all Mac users use iChat A/V, +-3% margin of error). Bloggers? Most are going to be using a separate video camera and the good ones don't do talking heads anyway, which is about all you can do with the built in iSight.

Re:And yet...

[Nastard]

The video camera is another stupid Mac ad. Who cares if a notebook comes with a camera? Yet another feature Apple crams down your throat, increasing the cost of the system.

But the price didn't go up when they added it.

Many manufacturers still put them in. I'm about to purchase a Dell M2010 and it's got a camera built-in. If that's the sort of feature you need in a PC then there are plenty of options available.

Yet another feature Dell crammed down your throat, increasing the cost of the system?

Let's also not forget Apple initial solution for the camera on the notebook, the huge iSight that clipped onto the top edge of the notebook monitor. Not exactly an elegant solution.

Yeah, they totally should have done something better, like build it into the machine.

Are you an idiot or a troll? I honestly can't tell.

Re:And yet...

[soft_guy]

I completely agree. Apple's ads are misleading. For example, the ads they run for the iPods! For one thing, when I am using an iPod, I don't dance around like an idiot! Who does that? No one. And if they did, they wouldn't look cool.

They should only use completely truthful ads like Microsoft does. For example, "Where do you want to go today?" That's not misleading - its a question! "Join the Social" - again this is not misleading - it is an invitation to a party! You could probably show up on Microsoft's campus and they would give you a balloon or something. Try that with Apple? I don't think so.

Re:And yet...

[stubear]

Being ambiguous is one thing, outright lying is another. Apple's Mac v. PC ads are the latter by a wide margin.

Re:And yet...

[stubear]

"Yet another feature Dell crammed down your throat, increasing the cost of the system?"

Pick another model Dell sells or go with another brand altogether, there's a choice if you want it unlike in Macland. It just so happens that the M2010 is a rather unique system that has other features that far outweigh whether or not there is or is not a camera.

"Yeah, they totally should have done something better, like build it into the machine."

Hmmm, how innovative. if only other PC manufacturers had thought of that, unlike what the Mac v. PC ad is suggesting. Wow, where does Apple get all these neat ideas?

Re:Crashes

[Atryn]

3:46 up 107 days, 28 mins, 3 users, load averages: 1.41 1.16 1.13

How do you manage this when virtually every update Apple puts out requires you to restart the machine?

Re:OK...

[CastrTroy]

Yeah, I got an Nforce4 motherboard, and I had to disable all that ActiveArmour stuff because I kept getting errors in just about every file I downloaded. Tried firmware and software updates and everything, problem still exists. Maybe next time I will buy a Mac, because they just work.

Re:OK...

[Khuffie]

Ya, but if they do, those Mac users will scream MONOPOLY! AHH! MICROSOFT ARE EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111cos(0)

Re:So much fun yet.....

[Paulrothrock]

They're out there. They're just mostly shareware. Anyone who's ever played SketchFighter 4000 knows there are fun games for the Mac.

Then again, you can always buy a system designed for gaming that uses your TV.

coke and pepsi?

[hhawk]

I mean it's a bit like selling coke and pepsi; not so much difference between Macs and PCs but people have their very clear and very strong choices...

The Ads are cute and funny and like any other ad are designed to sell one product at the expense of an other. I think they do that very well.

Re:coke and pepsi?

[MrMarket]

I'm sorry, but as the drafted family IT consultant, I've had significantly different experiences between OS X and XP. OS X is parent proof. Just pull it out of the box, turn it on, connect to the internet and you're off. All of the firewalls are on by default, the iLife programs are intuitive, easy to learn, and don't require downloading. All I had to do was show them how to get their AOL e-mail with Mail and how to set up their IM account with iChat (save your AOL flame for a different post, we're moving in baby steps here). Now when I visit home, I don't spend 30% of the time trying to clear all the spyware and bot net nodes off their machine. They even admit that the experience between the two machines is night and day. My in-laws just bought a windows machine, and I refuse to answer questions about XP issues. I told them to get a Mac or pay Geek Squad to come over 3-4 times a year.

Re:coke and pepsi?

[hhawk]

Easier to support is clearly a reason to make a purchase choice.

I told a lot of people to buy AOL back in the days of modems for the same reason. #1 one it worked and #2 if it didn't they had a good enough support team to handle it so I wouldn't get the call.

But in terms of a PC, it depends. If the person has little experience I can see, very much to your point, that the Mac is an easier choice.

However, if the user is a moderate or greater level user of PC in the office, for the very same reason, they are going to find the PC easier to use.

I love Mac and I've owned several, but I've been working on Windows for the last few years (mostly due to cheaper purchase prices), and the new Mac OSX interface is not easy for me. Not that I have problem with it, but I clearly have to think about where things are (e.g., it's not the old mac interface I know well nor is it the PC Interface). Not trolling here, I know some people find it much easier but if you only use it a few times a year and you use the PC for several hours a day the rest of the year, it is less than intuitive.

The point about how "i" applications and/or "i" hardware work very well together is a critical point. Clearly for some users who don't want to deal with technology issues using OTS applications and hardware from Apple is a far better choice than any other combination.

Re:coke and pepsi?

[Cornflake917]

My in-laws just bought a windows machine, and I refuse to answer questions about XP issues. I know I'll get modded down for saying this, but:

This is the exact reason why I hate Mac users (specifically Mac zealots). It's your fucking pompous, egocentric attitude that would keeping me from ever buying a Mac. I would want someone to shoot me if I was ever caught saying such rediculous bullshit that you just said. Listen, Macs are all great, user-friendly, and definately have advantages over windows machines, but it's not night and day. XP is now a pretty solid operating system and it's really not much different in terms of the user experience. What if one of your family members needed to use an application that is only available to an Windows OS, would you still be a dick to them?

My Mom uses a Mac and asks me questions all the time. I might not be as quick when it comes to fixing the problem due to my lack of experience, but at least I try. I don't belittle her by telling her to get a PC so I could help her better.

Stop being such assholes, and maybe I might end up agreeing with you people one day.

Re:coke and pepsi?

[MrMarket]

I should have been more clear. I have no problem helping them with applications like outlook, quicken, etc., but I refuse to spend time fixing problems about issues related to viruses, system crashes, hunting down dirvers, or any problems that require "safe mode." I've spent too much time in the past on this crap, and I find it ridiculous that people accept this as the status quo when there are OSes out there that don't have these problems dominating the user experience. MS will not deal with these issues until uses start walking away until they are fixed.

Re:coke and pepsi?

[brkello]

I have used XP for years now and have not had to fix problems related to viruses, system crashes, or been in safe mode. I had drivers issues with some games...but that is pretty typical. You want to have the latest graphical drivers to get the best performance and work with the games that are out. In any case, you could very easily teach them the proper use of their computer and install a software firewall, AV, and adware/spyware cleaners. Those simple steps make a huge difference.

Do other OS's have a security advantage over XP by their design? Yes, they do. But it is much more slim than the Mac and Linux users want you to believe. If you are dealing with people who have to open every single attachment even if they don't know the person...the type that will download anything and everything from whatever site they come across...then the game is over. The only protection that Macs and Linux boxes provide at that point is that they have such a small marketshare that no one cares to write viruses for them. This can change in an instant if people see the marketshare large enough for it to be lucrative to attack those hosts. Now you have all of the most clueless people running Macs and smugly thinking to themsleves that they are safe from viruses. It's the behavior we need to be concerned with. Your OS is only as secure as the user on it. Blaming XP for the problem is ignoring the real issues and trying to force your OS bias on others.

Re:OK...

[bpados]

MAC: IHello I'm a IMac PC: And I'm a PC. I'm just plugging away on 400 million computers when this pimp has something to say I'dont get. MAC: That's IBecause you're an IPC that IMr. ISteve IJobs has to IReinvent. PC: Well while he's busy Idoing that I guess I'm just gonna go back to work. MAC: But I IWork Ibetter! PC: I dont give an IShit.

Re:OK...

[egomaniac]

Come on, these ads try to suggest that photo albums and videos/music are only available on the Mac. Please.

Windows doesn't really have anything comparable to iLife. I eventually gave up and switched to a Mac specifically for iPhoto.

Re:Crashes

[JonathanBoyd]

Or he tried to plug a firewire drive in. Every one I've tried blackscreens the mac instantly

Give the Firewire is hotpluggable and was introduced into Macs close to a decade ago and has worked perfectly with every Mac I've ever used, I'd suggest that there's something very wrong with your computer. Maybe you should do a hardware check?

Great!...but the spoofs with linux are good too

[lokispundit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-L-0s-7-Z0

Re:OK...

[mdwh2]

The irony is that with the PowerPC Macs, Apple seemed to insist that Macs were PCs (see the ads where they falsely claimed "first 64 bit PCs", and dubiously claimed "fastest desktop PC"), yet when they switched to Intel, the ads insisted they weren't PCs, in that the adverts went something like "Now Intel CPUs will be running on something other than PCs..."

Honestly, even though I'm used to equating PC with that very specific type of computer, I still thought at first it was going to be an Intel ad advertising CPUs being used in something like embedded use (i.e., not a typical computer). Given that the average person is not going to see the distinction between personal computer and Macs at all (especially after what Apple have advertised previously), I don't see how that advertising campaign made much sense.

Re:OK...

[fraudrogic]

Oh I don't know...Picasa is pretty easy to use and its free.

Re:Crashes

[sjwt]

Look, im an MS user, and all ive goto say is that if anyone ever Ever, EVER trys to sell me something that is 'not much worse than Windows Explorer(at accessing network filesystems)' I would beat them to death with the remains of my good old windows 3.1.1 box.

I meen, I did not know untill right this at this moment that anything was worse, even if it was by the slighest, smallest byte.
I like my MS software, but the one part i hate is its dealing with network filesystems, thats allways been a sour point for me.

Re:No.

[mdwh2]

The word you're looking for is "microcomputer". "PC", as you point out, is short for "Personal Computer". "Personal Computer", in turn, is IBM's market-speak for their entry into the microcomputer market and its descendants; specifically with microsoft's OS running on Intel CPUs. Thus a PC is never a Macintosh, and until Apple switched from PPC to Intel chips, it was never possible for a Mac to be a PC.

Apple marketed PowerMacs as "PCs".

Now, it is possible to turn a Mac into a PC by using Bootcamp and running windows natively on it.

You think that running Windows makes something a PC?

One can summon angels, the other rides a BMX

[tomcooke]

David Mitchell got the upper hand plenty of times in "That Mitchell and Webb Look". See "Can People Levitate?" and "Angel Summoner and BMX Bandit".

Re:OK...

[linders]

except the photo viewer is so god damn poor, and you can't even watch fullscreen movies unless you buy Quicktime pro, and don't get me started on Quicktime, that PoS.

Re:Crashes

[porcupine8]

I agree with the other poster on the RAM. I've had my eMac for almost five years, and I've only had it actually crash twice, both times pretty spectacularly. The first time was bad RAM. Apple replaced the bad stick for free (it was only a couple months after I bought it) and all was well. The second time I'm still not sure what happened, but DiskWarrior fixed it. Other than those two times, I've never had to reboot my computer for anything other than software updates and the like.

Re:OK...

[LordVader717]

Since Quiktime 7 you have been able to watch fullscreen.

Linux vs. Windows: Killitude

[Jesus_666]

Linux box: Hi, I'm a Linux box.
Windows box: And I'm a Windows box. Linux, I'm going to f**ing bury you.
Linux box: You and which army?
Windows box: Well, I've got Steve Ballmer. He can throw chairs pretty hard.
Linux box: That's scary alright, but as for killitude, I've got Hans Reiser.
Windows box: Ah- I- I'm going to go somewhere else then, okay?

One more reason to love Linux: Because if you don't we'll sic Hans on you.


Okay, that one was way tasteless. I apologize.

Re:OK...

[644bd346996]

What do you consider to be the definition of a PC? While macs are architecturally very similar to most PCs, there are some very notable differences. For example, macs do not have a bios or an a20 gate, rendering them unable to boot pretty much any pc operating system without the bios emulation included in bootcamp.

Saying that an intel mac IS a pc is like saying that an amigaone IS a powermac. They use the same processors, and share many other chips, but they are still fundamentally different machines.

Re:OK...

[djh101010]

I can't wait for Vista and other upgrades to XP to come out, including little photo apps and media apps. I mean, the iLife stuff is free on Windows (Picasa, IrfanView, WinAMP, WMP), so I won't really use the Vista included crap, just like I wouldn't use the very limited, basic iPhoto. But I can't wait until MS includes it in the OS, so Mac users will shut the fuck up. If you think those are equivalent to iLife apps, it shows that you just haven't spent enough (or maybe any) time using both. What, for instance, are you claiming IrfanView is equivalent to? And are you _really_ saying that WMP is equivalent to iTunes? Yeah, they both play music. But, if that's your test, then a Mercedes is equivalant to a Kia.

As far as MS including useful apps in the OS, yeah, it'd be nice if they would do that. Maybe they'll get Vista right, time will tell. But having used both, I just can't see going back to Windows unless there is dramatic improvement in security, usability, and design.

Re:Crashes

[soft_guy]

I plug firewire disks into Macs all day long and I have never had even one system kernel panic as a result.

The only common way I get kernel panics is doing multi-threaded OpenGL programming (i.e. try to draw using OpenGL from two threads at the same time before you have the synchronization worked out properly.)

Re:OK...

[Jimithing DMB]

Mac users.. probably not. Linux users, probably not either. Socialist open-source zealots. Yeah.

I gotta say, I'd love it if Microsoft were able to actually deliver a decent product. But the sad fact is that they are never going to so long as their programming tools suck. Compare developing in Cocoa with developing in Win32, MFC, or even .NET. Once you understand Cocoa it's amazing how much easier it is. This I think is also why Linux is trailing. Most programmers seem stuck in mindset of writing toolkits that more or less work like Win32 or the classic Mac OS toolbox. When there is RAD available it feels more like a huge hack than an ingrained part of the toolkit like it does on Cocoa.

The only reason "Linux" (i.e. open source desktops) has made so many strides is that there are simply more programmers and the toolkits are ever so slightly easier to work with than Win32/MFC.

So I'm British...

[SilentMobius]

... and I watched the US Mac ads, I found them quite endearing. Full of bullshit but non the less I felt quite sorry for both the machines they represented. The Mac with its "If PC wasn't so stupid I'd never get away with this crap I'm peddling" and the PC's "I really haven't any idea whats going on any more" I kinda liked it.

But these two? I want to smack both of them upside the head and that annoyance made me want to kick both my work PC and the Mac I have to use because our CEO does everything on a powerbook then get annoyed when the rest of the company can't read anything he produces. Surely that not the response they were aiming for.

Mind you I still love my home rig, all of those machine are may babies and I love them.

Re:OK...

[Turn-X Alphonse]

How the fuck can it be easier on a mac unless this is Linux VS Mac?

Mac v PC (YTMND)

[Herr_Skymarshall]

http://mvpc.ytmnd.com/

Re:OK...

[djh101010]

If you think those are equivalent to iLife apps, it shows that you just haven't spent enough (or maybe any) time using both.

Actually I had OS X installed on my PC for a while, until I got really bored with it.
(shrug) fair enough.

What, for instance, are you claiming IrfanView is equivalent to? And are you _really_ saying that WMP is equivalent to iTunes? Yeah, they both play music. But, if that's your test, then a Mercedes is equivalant to a Kia.

I was excited about being able to use iPhoto, after hearing great things about it. But I found its photo management options poor.
Maybe I'm using it wrong, but - _what_ photo management are you trying to do? Categorize into albums & books? Got that. Sort by roll, or by date? Got that. Sort by filname or whatever metadata? Got that. Not sure what else I'd need. Maybe this is just a "your workflow habits would change going to a different tool", but that's hardly specific to iPhoto.

Picasa's or ACDSee's are better. And IrfanView is a better quick browser and slideshow viewer, with greater basic photo editing options than iPhoto. Everything about iPhoto is better in freeware or cheap Windows apps.
Well, I guess that's debatable. I'd rather have one app that does 90% of what I want, and, when I want to go outside, just right click on "edit with -> photoshop" to do the rest. Not sure what problem you have with the slideshows etc, I use irfanview on my windows systems, and iPhoto on my mac, and I don't see any functional difference. Far as that goes, if I just want a quick & dirty slideshow, apple's "preview" app is faster. But whatever.

iTunes is available for Windows, so I'm not sure why you're bothering to insist that it is something that makes Macs better.
Perhaps you have me confused with someone else. I was responding to someone (you? Another AC? It's _so_ hard to know/care) bringing up WinAMP and WMP, not someone talking about iTunes for PC vs iTunes for Mac.

Nevertheless, I use WinAMP more than iTunes because it has a great minimal interface usable while browsing the web. Ah. I use this button up in the corner that shrinks the window down when I'm not using it for that purpose. Meets my needs...

You still haven't said anything actually better about the bundled apps than the free alternatives, so I'll continue considering the statement that "[Photos, video, and music are] easier on a Mac" to be bullshit.
Well it's not my statement, so I didn't know I had the onus to support someone else's point. Maybe you have me confused with someone else? ut in any case, YES, they are easier. You don't have to download 7 different programs from 5 different sources just to get a freshly loaded system ready to go. Also, the apps have a consistant user interface, very intuitive to use if you are able to break your workflow habits. It's fine if you don't _get it_, but that doesn't mean it's inferior, it just means you don't grok it, or just don't grok it yet.

Or are you now going to turn around and tell me that the Intel processor in Macs is somehow better at videos and music than the Intel Core 2 Duo in my PC?
I sense a lot of hostility, and quite frankly, have no interest in countering that. I have no idea why you'd assign a point of view to me on a topic that I haven't even touched on. CPU flavor has _nothing_ to do with application and OS usability. As you undoubtedly know.

Re:OK...

[LKM]

I think you're just not getting it.

There already are Windows versions of all iLife apps. There's Movie Maker, there are DVD apps, and so on. The difference is that the ones on the Mac don't suck. And trust me, I've used most of the Windows based apps.

Also, I don't understand why you're so angry.

Re:OK...

[LKM]

How the fuck can it be easier on a mac unless this is Linux VS Mac?

I'm afraid I'm too stupid to understand the point of your so eloquently stated question. Are you suggesting that creating a DVD on Windows is as easy as it is on a Mac? Having used both, I find this statement ludicrous, so it must be something else you're trying to tell me.

Pray tell, what is it?

Re:OK...

[wootest]

As someone who develops in Cocoa and .NET (but who, admittedly, is writing this on a MacBook), I have to say that Cocoa is not *that* far ahead of .NET. If you're the hairy-chest C++ strongly typed unsigned volatile sealed abstract interface kind of programmer, you'll definitely like .NET more than Cocoa.

The difference it'd take me to develop an application in Cocoa and in .NET is negligible - they both are pretty good. I get around faster in Cocoa, but until 10.5 comes out (and in reality for about two years after that as well), I'll have to do manual memory management. As for .NET, that framework has more symbols than, well, all of Unicode. ;)

Cocoa started out smaller, has grown more carefully and is as a result reasonably mature and fairly easy to get your head around. .NET has been through two major and one minor iterations beyond the initial launch and is filled with stuff that can be done several ways because Microsoft did it one way in 1.0, then another in 1.1, then another yet in 2.0, and so on. Visual Studio does completely kick Xcode around the block at the moment, but Interface Builder similarly kicks Visual Studio around the block, and I can't wait for Xray, the dtrace-based debugger interface.

Re:OK...

[Sj0]

Probably because in the end the little details don't change the truth of the situation: If a Mac is running Windows XP then it's just like a PC , and regardless of where Samsung or Sony or whoever you want to use in your example is based, consumer electronics meant to be used with a computer are designed for Windows XP, because that's what 95% of the computing world that would use toys like that use.

Anyway, who says I'm trolling? I just felt like stating the truth for once, since those commercials, while smug, play so hard and loose with the facts.

Re:OK...

[Sj0]

I'll admit it, I COULD have left it at 'Doesn't that mean you're just as insecure, user unfriendly, and hardware incompatible as you say I am?', but I just had to go the extra mile. It's not that I've got anything against Macs or Mac OSX. I've just got something against stretching the truth, and those commercials do just that.

Re:OK...

[Sj0]

Japanese people mangle English even worse than English people mangle Japanese. Since I'm not actually literate in their language, I had to guess at what the equivalent for 'Windows XP' would be.

Re:OK...

[Jimithing DMB]

As someone who develops in Cocoa and .NET (but who, admittedly, is writing this on a MacBook), I have to say that Cocoa is not *that* far ahead of .NET. If you're the hairy-chest C++ strongly typed unsigned volatile sealed abstract interface kind of programmer, you'll definitely like .NET more than Cocoa.

Thanks for your comment. Always nice to hear from people who don't limit themselves to one thing. I must say that I am most definitely not the C++ type of programmer. I can get around in C++ fine and I think having the incomplete port of wxWidgets to Cocoa proves that. However, it was in doing that that I realized that programming GUI in C++ just plain sucks.

I've since moved on to doing a couple of very huge web applications using WebObjects which is written in Java but was ported from Objective-C about 7 years ago. The one feature I find most useful about Objective-C is the ability to call a method by name at runtime. Without it, Cocoa's .nib files are impossible. This can also be done in Java and .NET using the reflection APIs and one can even write some classes to make it easier. If you can live with only being able to call methods with a very specific signature (specifically, setters and getters) then the "key value coding" provided by WebObjects brings a lot of Objective-C feel to Java.

I think the biggest difference between Apple and Microsoft is that Apple's (actually NeXT's) engineers put a lot of thought into their API designs and coordinated between teams. If they even had many teams that is. Apple's stuff has the distinct feel of being written by a few very select programmers. Microsoft's stuff has the distinct feel of being forced together from many disparate pieces none of which quite work the same way. If Microsoft is going to compete they are basically going to have to fire most of their employees. The problem is, you're already seeing the good ones start to leave for greener pastures.

Re:Crashes

[toddestan]

Although I will agree that the Finder is terrible at accessing network filesystems (although not much worse than Windows Explorer - have neither Apple nor Microsoft heard of threading, or do they consider the file manager to be unnecessary?)

Actually, Microsoft has. Buried in the Folder Options - View tab in Explorer, you can check the "Launch Folder Windows in a Seperate Process" to do pretty much that. The reason why it's not defaulted to On I don't know, unless it's to save memory on older systems.

Re:OK...

[djh101010]

Not sure how you got to +4 with that, but the Apple section is like that. I'd say that if you're replying to me (same person posting third time now), you are obligated to take into consideration how the thread has gotten to where it has, in order to understand what I was trying to say. But maybe that's just me.
Give me a break. You post as AC, and you're taking me to task for not knowing which of the AC posts are from you, and that I haven't seen what other points you've been making? HELLO?

You're either saying Macs are better for media or you're not. For that is what this thread is about.
Indeed. In my experience, my Mac is easier to use for photos and music, than my PCs. But, you see, I'm not tied to a specific way of doing something; I get into iWhatever, and hey look, OK, hadn't thought of doing it that way before, I see...OK I'll try it. I don't try to force iWhatever to act like MS WhateverElse, I use it for what it is, and - guess what? There's some pretty well thought out stuff there. The consistent look and feel, predictable UI, and common methods across iWhatever to iWhateverelse are, to me, valuable.

Re:Crashes

[Weedlekin]

" if anyone ever Ever, EVER trys to sell me something that is 'not much worse than Windows Explorer(at accessing network filesystems)"

Everyone who isn't a rabid Apple apologist (and even some of them) reckons Finder is a piece of shit, leading to rumours (which usually bear the hallmarks of desperate wishful thinking) of major redesigns whenever a new version of OS X is announced.

"I meen, I did not know untill right this at this moment that anything was worse, even if it was by the slighest, smallest byte."

It's not a little bit worse, but IMO significantly worse, which is a sad indictment if ever there was one given the utter mediocrity of what Windows XP provides. Note that I'm not only talking about network-related stuff, but also its use as a general file browser and administration utility, where it sucks nearly as hard.

Re:OK...

[PastaLover]

PC is short for personal computer. Sure the nuance would be lost on most people if you were to go "Oh hi I'm a " but saying a mac isn't a PC is like saying a toyota hybrid isn't a car. What bothers me most about these ads though is that they seem to perpetuate the myth that there is some holy unseverable connection between the OS and its hardware. I realise from Apple's standpoint it's good advertising (the mac as an "appliance") but macs run windows, and "pc's" run other operating systems too.

Re:OK...

[wootest]

Apple's stuff has the distinct feel of being written by a few very select programmers. Microsoft's stuff has the distinct feel of being forced together from many disparate pieces none of which quite work the same way. If Microsoft is going to compete they are basically going to have to fire most of their employees. The problem is, you're already seeing the good ones start to leave for greener pastures.

This is really interesting. Apple *has* several teams since they also have Carbon and their own Java runtime. The Java team has obviously got their agenda set, but not much is happening with Carbon. Jens Alfke, an Apple engineer, was knee-deep in the Java runtime for some time but defected to another team and wrote the iChat prototype after just one week of internal Cocoa training. Not to mention that around the time when the plans for Mac OS X were made public, they said they'd just use their Java port of QuickTime, and now they're rewriting basic layers in Objective-C to be eased in with 64-bit (where the old versions are not ported). Apple was very unsure of Cocoa when they first acquired it as the OpenStep APIs, and now it's one of the company's most valuable software possessions.

And Microsoft, of course... Microsoft seems to have very happy and genuinely enthusiastic developers. This isn't their problem, it's one of cobbling together something coherent with that many people, and being under the onus of needing to provide "Enterprise stuff" - expensive but unneeded and acronym-heavy solutions, all regularly updated to new, wildly incompatible versions at the drop of a hat to keep it 'fresh' for CIOs. (Uh. Not that I'm bitter.)