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67-Kilowatt Laser Unveiled
s31523 writes "Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California has announced they have working in the lab a Solid State Heat Capacity Laser that averages 67 kW. It is being developed for the military. The chief scientist Dr. Yamamoto is quoted: 'I know of no other solid state laser that has achieved 67 kW of average output power.' Although many lasers have peaked at higher capacities, getting the average sustained power to remain high is the tricky part. The article says that hitting the 100-kW level, at which point it would become interesting as a battlefield weapon, could be less than a year away."
Cue the frickin' lasers jokes in 3...2...1...
"No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson
But my laser goes all the way up to 11 ...
tag it ohgodsomeonewilltagthissharks instead and show some originality
Yawn...somebody wake me when they can make it 500 pounds, 2 spaces, $8000, and it can cut through an engine block in 1/10th of a second.
-Uncle Albert
Remember that movie Real Genius? Is this as powerful as that?
seriously, what I'm interested in is the non-military applications of technologies like this. Oh yeah, and if it was a weapon, what would be the effective range at 65kW or 100kW? The article is a little light on information.
Or just incinerate my brain and explosively detach the back of my skull?
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
...will be the "Yamamoto Cannon".
(damn, why couldn't he have been Dr. Yamato)
Build a Yamato and put these on it instead of the half-meter rifles the last one had.
Let me guess -- the Pentagon now has everything it needs to proceed with the Death Star?
I want five megawatts by mid-May.
Dr. Yamamoto almost but not quite Yamato. Ive seen too much anime and played too much Starcraft.
Picture in TFA shows a trailer which you would presumably tow through the streets of Baghdad zapping potential IED's but the opposition in that country have shown that they have the ability to adapt to changed conditions. So the bombs they plant will be in places you can't tow a huge trailer, or outside a place where blowing up the IED will only make you get the blame for killing civilians.
Too much overhead, not enough payload.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Okay, I'll bite...
Near the end of the article: 'mobile laser concept'.
That thing needs a whaleshark to mount it on!
--
Still prefer the double-barreled shotgun, or the Bio-Force Gun (BFG) myself...
The article does not mention that any reflection off whatever the laser is aiming at is many kW as well. A small polished piece of steel would reflect 80% in some random direction, and the beam will go until it reaches something. Only a few milli Watts would be sufficient to damage the eyes of civilian spectators, so a reflection could easily permanently blind everyone in a football stadium of 50000 people.
"Fix it"
67 kW? Thats nice. Another 933 kW and we can mount it on my Cobra Mark III.
Someone comes up with some amazing, high tech solutions which I don't know, let you reflect light, or maybe bend it. This "laser shield" would have to be small enough to carry, compact, say small enough to fit in a woman's handbag or maybe a gent's toiletry bag.
Anyway, just a thought, it'll probably take the military billions of dollars and a decade or two to come up with something like that.
Deleted
Oh thank God! I can build Battlecruisers now!
Sorry, had to be said.
Do I make a Real Genius joke, or a StarCraft joke?
geek. lawyer.
... the Iraqi insurgents come up with the 100kW mirror!
Can't say I'm surprised really. The funny thing is that no other nation sees the need to spend anything like the US military budget. I suppose the argument goes that there are people around the world who hate freedom, and since the US is the 'most free' nation on Earth, well, they're prime targets. Problem is that the US isn't the 'most free' nation on Earth - not by a long shot. Scratch that theory. The alternate argument goes that there are a lot of people around the world who hate US foreign police. This argument seems far more sensible. So for US citizens, the correct path would be to change foreign policy, right? Problem is, US citizens don't live in a democracy, so can't affect the foreign policy of their ruling class. Think I'm wrong? Think again. They just voted out the Republicans in an absolute landslide which is largely recognised as being a rejection of Republican foreign policy, but you watch just how much that policy changes, both now AND when they get rid of Emperor Dubya.
For those who see these laser protecting them from the terrorists' attacks on their homes, I think this is being a bit naive. This laser is to protect military equipment on the battlefield, and the ruling class at home. Just look at how the military didn't lift a finger to stop 9/11, even though they had precise warnings from multiple credible sources. The only thing the US government did was to protect Bin Laden's family after 9/11, flying them back home to safety.
IMMA CHARGIN IT
I read Yamamoto as Yamoto at first glance.
This sig is false.
Soon, America will wield the power to project an annoying red dot into any room in North Korea or Iran, disturbing and agitating ANY and ALL cats, and, if the resident is so foolish as to investigate... his very eyes may be irritated, and possibly damaged, after prolonged exposure!
I spend most of my time in bed, darling.
Do not stare into laser with remaining co-worker.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Vaporware
Jigga Whats?
A blog about stuff.
The diagrammed version is not for destroying IED's. The article says a much smaller 25kW laser would be useful for destroying them because time is not a factor. The 25kW version just needs to "dwell" on the target a little longer.
A 100kW version (like in the picture) is where it gets interesting because it might be useful for destroying moving targets on the battlefield (missiles, shells, etc...). A 25kW laser wouldn't be able to acquire a target and destroy it in time.
The RIAA is terrified that it will be used to burn DVDs at a range of 500 meters. Drive-by piracy is here: hide your children, lock your doors, hire your lawyers!
If such weapons make their way onto the battlefield, you're going to end up with a lot of blinded soldiers. Any beam powerful enough to be useful will be capable of blinding everyone near the target with the reflected light. In fact, if you put some kind of corner cube reflective coating on the target, there might be enough light sent back to the source to blind the people firing the beam.
Civilians? Steel? Kevlar? The effective range depends on what you want to
burn a hole through and how long you're willing to wait for it.
They need the frickin light saber! This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight, less random than a blaster. An elegant weapon for a more civilized age.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Minion: "Mein Fuehrer, the five megawatt light device will be ready by mid-may,
the portable five megawatt backpack energy supply too."
Fuehrer: "Very good Herr Sturmbannfueher. I look forward to deploying this miracle weapon!"
Minion: "We still have a very small very minor problem to solve, mein Fuehrer."
Fuehrer: "Ja? Problem? What problem?"
Minion: "Our Tibet expedition has still failed to produce a Yeti to carry the weapon".
All you'd need is a big spinning mirror and you could vaporize a human target from space.
"You saved 1968." - Ms. Valerie Pringle to the crew of Apollo 8
"In it's (apparently) intended use for shooting down missiles/mortars in the short-range theater...the ranges involved shouldn't allow for much in the way of intensity of the scatter."
I wonder what the possibilities for friendly fire are when using this as an anti-mortar device while maintaining air superiority?
If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
I'm also not surprised... remember... the US is a violent, violent, brutal country. It was founded on the genocide of an entire continent of cultures less than 300 years ago, and has been actively killing foreign people all over the world constantly since WW2. The US: we can't make a TV worth a damn, but we can sure as hell can kill you!
I don't respond to AC's.
Insightful how? Making mirrors that can withstand 100+kW of energy you can't exactly go down to your hardware store. Insurgents have nowhere near the facilities or technology to create anything close to withstanding 100kW.
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
It's very subjective. It's easier to so which nation isn't the most free than it is to say which is...
... and this is supported by the state, under Chavez. They're also setting up co-managed factories, where workers elect managers, and can also recall them. This is also a very good step in the right direction, democracy-wise. Read up on the Bolivarian revolution for more info on what direction they're heading in.
... as Guantanimo Bay is itself an example of where the US is heading.
Venezuela is looking very promising. They're creating soviet-style workers' councils and other community-based groups
As a general rule, the level of development of capitalism inside a country mirrors the level of attacks on personal freedoms. So the big economic powers require more and more power to control their population. This was shown very well in the recent anti-Dick Cheney demos in Sydney. We broke numerous records for police numbers, roads closed, and probably personal injuries resulting from police violence. So I don't think Australia is exactly leading the way here either. Our government's abandonment of David Hicks in Guantanimo Bay for 5 years is another example
Look at the dot! Chase the dot! Chase the ...
Uh-oh.
The fact the SSHCL is able to get 67kW out of a solid state system is very impressive. Most solid state lasers of this sort have been stuck below 10kW and are only about 1% efficient, a 1kW laser needs 1MW of input power 99% of which needs to be shed by a cooling system. Solid state lasers have a definite advantage over chemical ones like the THEL and ABL because their "ammunition" supply is essentially only limited by the amount of electricity they've got available. Chemical lasers consumer reactants in the lasing process and have a finite number of shots before those reactants are exhausted. Those reactants take up a lot of space as well, Isreal's THEL system requires four semi trailers worth of equipment to shoot down small katyusha rockets and mortar rounds.
The Air Force has a real hard on for laser systems. Though it doesn't say specifically in the article it appears this lab was awarded the AFRL's contract to produce a solid state equivalent to the ATL system being developed largely by Boeing. The ATL is a smaller cousin of the ABL weighing in at about 70kW. It's an order of magnitude lower power than the roughly 1MW ABL but is also quite a bit smaller. The ABL requires a 747, the ATL is being developed to be mounted on a C-130 or V-22 Osprey. A solid state ATL would be far more useful for the Air Force than a chemical one. A solid state laser system on an aircraft could be powered by generators hooked to the engines and fired an indefinite number of times in flight.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
First thing that popped into my head was the sound of a Prism Tank blast followed by AAAHHHHH!
Could a laser not burn or melt a hole down to an iranian nuclear site? I guess if that was the case the oil companies would already.. Ok maybe not such a good mix, oil and lasser's might just rock the underworld..
...the new laser pointers blew so many wholes in the whiteboard that the diagrams can no longer be read.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
When can I pick one up at my local sporting goods store? I need it for "deer hunting." (And the simulatenous cooking of the entire animal).
Leave the gun, take the cannoli -- Clemenza, The Godfather
That ought to liven up the PowerPoint presentations a bit.
They don't create. They either buy, steal or have donated to them.
No, sorry, I don't buy this at all; nor do I think that workers being able to recall managers has anything to do with freedom. What it has to do with is control. Freedom means less control over other people's lives, not more.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
That's near infrared (only ~30% outside the visible range), and everyone working with lasers in that range wears goggles because they need them.
Time to update your laser pointers! The old ones only melt plastic, light matches and pop balloons.
(Have to be ready for when the sharks attack--and they will!)One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'd guess non-zero, but very small via referencing the "Big Sky Theory". After all, the concentrated beam doesn't travel any further than the target if it is aimed properly. It's only about an inch wide...so even on a miss only an inch column along a single vector is subject to collateral damage..there's a whole lot of places for planes to *not* be by comparison to being in the way of the beam. But yeah, point taken..it's something that would have to be considered in the targeting/tracking system.
The spirit of Human Compassion is alive and well.
You know what would be interesting as a battlefield weapon ? Something that destroys the user upon firing!
Why the fuck do we need a death ray ? Have we already reached the point where we have nothing better to do than destroy everything in sight ? How about a laser that has practical uses in construction (etching/molding/carving etc) or high-tech, or anything that actually adds value to the world rather than vaporizing it.
Laser weapons are for Star Wars, all I ever asked for was pussy and beer!
-Billco, Fnarg.com
Irrelevant.
No mirror reflects 100% of the incoming light. The 3%* or so that remains will make short work of the reflective surface, and then the laser will get back to work.
The other 97% that is reflected couldn't be meaningfully redirected before the reflective surface is burned through.
*Ever been in a hall of mirrors at a science museum or fun house? If you get between two mirrors you'll notice the 'echos' getting progressively dimmer.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
What exactly is the destructive power of a laser though? Can it penetrate deeply? A laser pointed directly at the ground, does what exactly?
I'm not sure I understand the military potential here simply because I don't understand the physics of what is actually happening with this kind of exposure to laser radiation.
It has no "impact force" per se, so we're talking about destroying through heat -- but how far (as in depth) does that actually get you?
Anyone?
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
Would this be useful in beaming energy from a space based solar energy collection array?
...and man on the bring of self destruction, we have people sitting around building bigger lasers!
okinawa japan
I come at home on a Saturday night and with a moderate amount of anticipation open the RSS feed of Slashdot
.. even web journalism.
for interesting news. To my dismay I find articles titled "What Vista is Really Like", "Pendulum swinging toward privacy", "A bad month for Firefox" and a bunch of user written comments moderated as 1 point.
A couple of nights ago there was "SETI finally finds something", another "humorous" article plunging well
below any standard of journalism
This has been going on for a while now, with article descriptions often ending in brain-numbing questions,
apparently as a sorry attempt to spark conversation.
(Ladies and) Gentlemen at slashdot, please don't let Fox news get to you.
I admit this post may have been provocative and if I don't like what i read, I should be the one to change my habits but yet again it is my opinion that Slashdot wasn't always this mundane.
I wish you all the the best.
I thought 64k is all anyone would ever need.
Surely you could develop a system that fired a far less intense beam milliseconds before the full power beam, that was used to map the reflections? With enough computing power, it shouldnt be too hard to tell what will happen when you actually fire, and if it's not to you're liking, you don't.
Relax I just want some peanuts.
This is also a very good step in the right direction, democracy-wise.
I'd say, democracy-wise, the ruler granting himself the power to rule by decree is a pretty bad sign.
big economic powers require more and more power to control their population
Well, Chavez's ongoing implosion of the Venezuelan economy should serve him in good stead, then.
Seriously, man, anybody who believes Venezula is a shining beacon of progress is a walking trimuph of Marxist ideology over reality.
Another AC! Does no-one have courage or valid points of view these days?
Sure, I've entertained the idea. The problem at the moment is that Venezuela is unstable. It's on the tipping-point of a revolution, but hasn't quite gotten there yet. I also am heavily rooted in my own country - mortgage, job, family, etc. I'm certainly not the kind of person to move countries just because they have some advantages in some areas. They have more freedom of speech, for example. But in Australia, we also have some degree of freedom of speech. If things change, then of course I'll be looking more closely at other countries.
But I'm also not the kind of person to run away from a country just because I've identified problems. Instead I think it's a valid approach to stick it out here and fight to implement the best elements of Venezuela's society into ours. What's wrong with that approach.
Lastly, I assume you think the US is the most free country on Earth, though your response was a little on the light side, so it's hard to say. Perhaps you should move to the pinnacle of their freedom, Guantanimo Bay. I think you'll have a great time there, and it will help you to get some perspective. Go on. When are you moving there?
Now this will make one hell of a show!!
and what a popcorn ball we could make from space using this thing. (+2 insightful is you know the reference :-)
Power to the Penguin!
My, my, the ACs are out in numbers today!
Problem with your 'every man for himself' and 'why should I support others' argument is that the people doing most of the bludging aren't the people you're suggesting. The bludgers are the capitalists who own the means of production, and therefore control society, set wages, and generally fuck things up. The so-called welfare recipients are just ordinary people who need some support. For example single mothers need help to raise their children, and so society should step in and help them to do this. Everyone is entitled to an equal start.
Some simple facts: 98% of the wealth in US -society is owned by less than 1% of the population. Given this, I really so no merit at all to what you're saying. You're trying to say that we should continue down the 'every man for himself' path, so this top 1% gain more, and all because you can't deal with helping out the less fortunate who need some help? The secret is that there is no need to take money from YOU, unless you are in the top 1%. We need MASSIVE redistribution of wealth, but this is in everyone's interest, apart from the top 1%.
Why should it take 3 working people to support 1 who doesn't work? Well firstly, it doesn't. I don't know where you pulled those figures from, but if you redistribute wealth equitably, these 3 working people will be better off, not worse off. And sure, the 1 non-working person will be better off too. So what? But also, you have to consider WHY they're not working. Could it be that US companies are exporting jobs to China? Could it be that this non-working person is a single parent? You do realise that in the US now, it takes 2 parents working full-time to support a family, and that a single parent working full-time still requires assistance?
Your last rant about drugs / drinking etc is pretty moronic. You're just trying to push conservative people's buttons, aren't you? There's no actual substance to your 'claim' or whatever it is that happened in that last sentence.
Mount the laser cannon within a mirror, so the reflections can bounce straight back. IN your face, insurgents!
The first military application of this might be air defense and it seems possible that it could neutralize all of the military aircraft systems currently deployed. There might be effective armor systems against it such as mirrors or ceramic tiles (like the space shuttle) but those would take quite a while to develop and deploy. In the meantime, the balance would tip away from air offense and towards air defense which would have a big effect on US military power which heavily depends on aircraft to project force into the battlefield.
This gadget will be used as a sniper gun from hell. Mount it on a plane, on a hybrid tank with a kilowatt generator, in a satellite.
Do we really trust the new SuperPresidents(tm) that Bush has created with a silent assassin from orbit? How long until a terrorist(tm) is smoked? The family around him? An environmentalist - already labeled terrorists. Hell. PETA members are now semi-official terrorists. REPORTERS are being labeled fellow travelers. The Army already smoked one building full of reporters with a tank. They'd love them some lasers. We've killed one foreign head of state by hanging, another still is in prison on charges that no one understands. You think the New American Century Cheney/Rice types will hesitate one second in smoking a head of state?
What really worries me is, say, an individual with advanced power storage tech (coming soon) or a hybrid car generating enough juice to have a lovely laser handgun. Perfect as a targeting system, perfect as a killer. No noise, good for miles, untraceable by conventional means in real time. Also good for "riot" (AKA protest) control for unruly peons. Goes with the microwave cannon, the electrical stunner, the sound cannon.
In all of this, how exactly are we becoming safer? What the hell do we need this thing for? and once we show it can be done, the Chinese and the Indian research teams will whack their own models out in a couple of years, selling it to the highest bidder. STREET GANGS will have lasers in fifteen years.
Are you talking about the Iraqis or the US?
But we're not talking about controlling people's lives, we're talking about controlling production. I never said anything about controlling people's lives. Where did you get that from?
As we all have all seen recently, it doesn't really matter how powerful an arsenal we have. In the war of conquest, nothing works short of genocide. Wake me up when they come up with something against tandem warhead RPG's and snipers.
Well there are a number of things to say to this.
Firstly, this is exactly what Dubya, Cheney & Gonzales have argued for and achieved in redefining Dubya as the 'commander in chief'.
Secondly, you have taken this 'rule by decree' thing WAY out of context. Chavez wants to nationalize various industries. His population are completely behind him in this. But he's facing a lot of obstacles from inside the state that are preventing him from progressing in this direction. So he's attempted to side-step things that are getting in his way, so he can continue with nationalizing. I think this is justified, and as most coverage has pointed out, so do a majority of Venuzuelans.
It's true that, outside of this context, it doesn't sound too good. But alongside the substantial reforms that he's implemented so far, I think it's clear which direction he's taking. We should also point out that he's set a sunset clause ( something Dubya and Cheney have refused to do ). Also, if he actually tried to use this power against the common good, the people simply would not allow it. We're looking at a revolutionary situation in Venezuela, and Chavez's real power doesn't come from the fact that he wins elections by absolute landslides ( though he does ), it comes from the massive grass-roots campaigns that have emerged inside the revolutionary process. Take, for example, the incredible grass-roots campaign to protect Chavez from the CIA-instigated coup. Or didn't you hear about that one? If you're in America, I assume you didn't hear about it.
Anyway, I would be far more worried about war criminals such as Dubya ( who refuse to sign up to the World Court ) ruling by decree than someone like Chavez, would is really the absolute opposite of Dubya.
Implosion isn't the correct term. It's called nationalisation.
That's a pretty stupid statement to make. Not only is it wrong, but you make no attempt to back it up. What's up with people's lack of substance when entering discussions? Is education really that bad in the US now?
Sure. soviet-style workers' councils were everybody has the same ideas, where the leaders chosen are the ones supported by the state. Hey man, I am not a naive american who has never seen such things, and thus, is prone to believe in your fantasy. I am a Brazilian, and in the past was even a member of the Workers Party (PT), So I know exactly how where such things are headed, and basically, you either doesn't understand freedom, or you don't like it. Under your point of view, brainwashing the masses, silencing dissent, using hate and manipulating are signs of a strong democracy. Chavez is a dictator who is trashing his country economy, dividing his society, and who is seeking absolute power. Oil prices are high, but Venezuelas's people have less jobs and depend increasingly on direct transfers from government and social programs, thus being forced to believe that Chavez is their saviour.
Your ad could be here!
First, don't complain about weapons research! That is a good thing, because they do projects that civilian research doesn't do. For instance, Google for Laser Launch and realize that variants of these solid state lasers might give us more space telescopes and other good uses of money. (I can agree on that building and using the stuff is often a waste of money.)
Oh, please. After the cold war the US generally started to influence clients to become democracies where it is not against their direct interests. (*) For instance, South Korea and Taiwan became democracies when the US wasn't so dependent on them anymore. (The weird part is that afaik, this change came with Reagan a president.)
It is in the west's direct interest to support democracy -- and not only because democracies don't make war (not even USA). We earn more money because the economy of a democracy isn't so likely to be sh.t and they become better customers. (China is a worrying counter example. They might do something horrible, like getting a 1984 society with computer control going. The horrible part is that it could be stable for all time.)
You US bashers are as boring as the McCarty communist scare or Mid West brimstone preachers -- you just think another group is responsible for everything bad.
(*) Like Saudi Arabia, which the US needs more than the other way. If not, the US would pressure Saudi Arabia to democratize. There is this concept called realpolitik, which is practiced by all countries. If the US didn't try to stabilize the Mid East, then Western Europe would have to. We need someone to sell us oil, for now.
Karma: Excellent (My Karma? I wish...:-( )
Livermore is only 6 miles from my house... Gulp. Good job there's a mountain between me and that fricking laser. A.M
The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. - HGTTG
Look, it's not a conspiracy. It's pretty simple: we spend the most on our military because we like being the boss. "I'm the boss"--the drive to achieve this is the basis of both our economy and our foreign policy. Anyone who's spent time with Americans knows what overbearing bossy asses we can be. Is this really hard to figure out?
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
I checked, you apparently did not. China is second on the list, at about 1/8 of the USA.
Just note, the US official military budget is over 18% of china's GDP. There is no way that china outspends the US.
T
Laws are horrible moral guides, moral guides make even worse laws.
my opinion that Slashdot wasn't always this mundane.
Well... yes it has always been... Just quit coming home drunk!
And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make
You say that Venezualans have less jobs. But this is wrong! Chavez is reversing neo-liberal 'structural adjustment' policies, which is creating jobs. You claim that people are more dependent on government assistance, but this is a very misleading statement. The money from oil is being used to fund social programs, such as education and health. So in this sense, yes, people are more dependent, but this is a good thing, because without these services being provided by the state, they simply would not be provided at all. A more accurate way of describing what's happening is that the welfare state is being increased. This isn't happening to offset some alleged drop in economic activity
This statement gives away the fact that you don't really know what's happening there at all. I even suspect that you're not Brazilian and a former member of the Workers Party as you claim. The people in Venezeula understand where the real power in society lies, and that's not with Chavez. Chavez gets his power from the mass support he enjoys, which will only remain while he continues his reforms, ie his Bolivarian revolution. There is an incredible mistrust of politicans throughout Latin America. The people of Venezeula don't see Chavez as their 'saviour'. This suggests that the people themselves are not participating in the social change they are experiencing. But they understand very well that they are driving change, and that Chavez is simply a friend that they have on the inside. Indeed, one of the reasons the US hasn't had further attempts at assassinating Chavez is that they're frightened from last time that they might trigger an even faster reform
For making a giant block of swiss cheese?
Seriously though, all you'd need is a tracking system and a large spinning mirror
and you could vaporize a human target from space.
Kent's tracking system is gone!!!
And they said zombies weren't real!
Of course, what I'm really excited about is that new phase plasma rifle with a 40 watt range.
-- thinkyhead software and media
Are you claiming that Japan's investments in consumer tech will result in many-kwatt lasers? :-)
I am not sure I believe you are serious by arguing that consumer research could do the same work as military research. References would be interesting? There are differences in the type of targets military research do.
For instance, consider WW II and the Germans building Goddard's rockets -- how could that have happened in the civilian sector? How many more decades or centuries?
Uh, I wrote literally "After the cold war". Chile -73, the Vietnam war and the Talibans were before the end of the cold war. (And North Vietnam was a disgusting regime anyway.) I don't believe you can be this stupid. You must be trolling me.
Well, give an example of a working system that is nicer for human rights? For instance, complainers like you aren't thrown into jail or worse? Oh, there are none?
Also, since most experiments fail with tens of millions of dead, it needs be well tested.
And for the record, read my comments re realpolitik in my previous post -- if west countries depend upon some non-democracy, we don't nag them about democracy. USA seemed to handle Tiananmen square and latter democracy issues better than e.g. Sweden, which is even more dependent on China for economic reasons.
My point -- which you never discussed -- was that it is in our (as in "the west's") interest to work for democracy. Afaik, it is quite obviously true. It also makes a conspiracy theory of your hate speech.
Let me guess, you have some convoluted reason why Japan, (West) Germany etc aren't democratic or unique examples?You feel good agreeing with the worst dictators on the planet? Strange that you lefties never complain about them. You even mentioned Israel, too.
There are lots of things to complain about USA and Israel -- or any other country in the world. Libya, for instance, worked to destabilize West Africa to improve their own power base and got I-don't-know how many hundreds of thousands died. Then we have Sudan, etc. The UN (and extremists like you) complain literally thousands of times more about Israel, which can't compare. Hell, the local left wing journalists avoid ever mentioning this. I'm sorry, but I have to stand with my initial position -- you left wingers are just another religion.
Enough of this garbage, I have better things to do than argue with religious nuts.
Karma: Excellent (My Karma? I wish...:-( )
No. It isn't. In the normal course of a capitalist business: Person A starts a business, hires person B to manage, and persons C through Z are hired to work at the manager's behest. This entire structure is the creation of person A, using person A's resources, choices, expertise and expertise hired in to support the operation. Persons C through Z have two reasonable choices: They can reject the job they originally accepted and seek their fortunes elsewhere, perhaps in the role of A in some other business, or B, or back into C/Z. Or, they can work within the system designed by person A and continue to receive the agreed-upon remuneration for performing the tasks they were hired to do.
At no point in that structure is it "democratic" for persons C through Z to "recall" or "select" managers. That role falls naturally to person A. No one else, unless that also, is delegated. If it were delegated to the workers by person A, that would be one thing. When it is taken by the workers, with or without the assistance of a coercive government or paramilitary force, that is ethically and morally bankrupt.
You have confused the presumption of parity with freedom, and both of them with democracy.
You want to take from person A - and B - and give to persons C through Z, that which they never owned, that which they were never offered, and more to the point, that which they never earned. You extol the virtues for persons C through Z, while blithely ignoring what you have taken from A and B.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
He is more likely to take it hunting when he goes along with friends.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I remember Leik N. Myrabo saying in a tv-show that with a 100 kW laser his lightcraft could be sent into space. With such a laser built maybe this can be proved a reality quite soon?
In terms of absolute dollars, yes. In terms of buying power, not even close. Heck, one American troop makes low wages and yet earn more than 20 chinese soldiers earn. Likewise, the cost of building a ship in China is nothing compared to Americas.
China is spending to upgrade like there is no tomorrow. They have been busy in America (and europe, russia, Israel, and japan) trying to steal what they can not buy.
America is spending money so that one soldier can do more. For example, we are heading quickly towards automated and/or remote control planes. In addition, our navy will use fewer troops than any other. This takes money to buy, steal, or research. Since this tech does not exist, then we have to research it. China will then try to steal it, probably from an alley.
Now, as to your comment about the budget, you are not being quite honest either. Up till 2002, the CIA, NSA, NRO, and DARPA were considered part of the military budget some of the time. In particular, when we referred to the amount as given by the CIA, it does include all that. In addition, when we broke apart the budget into high level percentages, these were also part of the military budget. Of course, when we break the budget apart far enough that these are shown, then no, they were not part of military. Overall, our figures are above board. Now, since 2002, things are a bit different. W. has introduced all sorts of funny accounting. He has required all budgets to quietly take a certain amount off the top and give to the "war" effort. I seriously doubt that money is being shown as part of the true costs. In spite of W's lies, I believe that there is more than enough proof that China's budget is blowing ours out the water. And once W. is gone (hopefully with American provided housing in Leavenworth Ks), then truthfulness will prevail again.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
There is a lot of countries who would love to spend more than the USA, except they don't posses an economy that would allow it.
US of course have economic interest all over the world, but are actually one of the countries least dependent on foreign trade. USA *could* go isolationist, and it is a surprise that they haven't done so, not that Communism is no longer a credible threat. I actually expect them to do so soon, within a decade. Which means that EU will have to create their own defense, EU is far more vulnerable than USA both economically and geographically. Taiwan would be lost. And life would become exciting for Japan and Asean.
It would not affect South America, even in its most isolationist times, USA have never been to reclusive to stage a few invasions or coups in what it considers its own back yard.
Venezuela is going to be invaded by the USA, the same month USA withdraw their last troops from Iraq to draw attention from the humiliating defeat. The puppet government they put in will have as their primary mandate to ensure oil supply to the US.
That invasion will actually be the start of a new isolationist period of the US history, where the US concentrate on problems "at home", which will include its "back yard" in South America.
US will no longer face Islamic terrorism, as soon as US withdraw from the scene, the corrupt Arab leaders will (successfully) point to Iran as the new enemy, with the support of the local religious leaders, who sees Shia-Islam as a threat to their own power base.
Yeah, but based on past history, Halliburton will be selling them the mirrors within 5 years of the laser being actively used. Or the next republican president will simply give it to them as being needed for freedom.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Bigelow aerospace is to start selling smaller version of the BA-330 to the military. Place one of these in each unit and you now have an interesting space weapon.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Lawrence Livermoore is part of the Department of Energy. Why talk about military use - it already *has* its use: it's burning through energy all by itself.
Having relatives and friends living and/or working in Venezuela qualifies as a source for you? Don't forget, crocodile dundie, that I am a Brazilian, and so, I am a lot closer to the venezuela than you. Instead of supporting communist dictatorships in Latin America, why don't you, rich-fat-first-world-communist-kid, try to be the Chavez in your own country? Go ahead, do the you Boliarian Revolution in Australia, US, whatever! But stop helping fuck latin america! We don't need you here, kid. There are real people here, boy, very far beyond the gates of the Sociology Department of your university. And those people don't need to go suffering again with the misery brought by populist and/or proto-socialistic dictators again. We've had enough of that.
Your ad could be here!
But Americans can pop Jiffy-Pop popcorn from outerspace!!1! kewl!
The United States: We p0wn The Planet.
IR opaque smoke grenades?
This would be very useful for the power transmission on space elevators. Part of the problem is developing effective lasers to supply the climbers with energy. Last I heard 1KW solid state lasers were good, so this could be a vast improvement.
This may sound good if you're a hopeless peasant. But what if you want to start your own business, and do something more in life? According to Venzuela, the employees would have the same control over the business as the person who took great risks to build that business. So why bother starting one in the first place? Just kick back and enjoy whatever the government hands you. And then the economy starts sliding. And then your contry goes bankrupt like the Soviets did. No thanks. I'd rather have some competition. I'd rather be able to quit and find another job if I don't like the one I have. Or even start my own business if I'm willing to work hard and take risks.
>> Problem is that the US isn't the 'most free' nation on Earth - not by a long shot.
e =wilson)f e/2004-03-29-child-self-porn_x.htm)
> Name one,
Germany.
> and explain how it's more free (not "a better place to live" or "more friendly to the environment").
If I'm a 17yo guy I can make pictures of my 15yo girlfriend and send them to my email-account
without both of us getting sued for posession and production of child pornography and being
trialed as adults and jailed for my own good.
Of course, I can't yell "Heil Hitler" on the street in Germany without getting into legal trouble but frankly,
I prefer to live in a country with people taking dirty pictures of themselves than in a country where
people feel the urge to yell "Heil Hitler" on the street.
Or being 17yo and getting a blowjob by a 15yo and 10years in jail?
(http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?pag
Or being 15yo and being charged with sexually abusing YOURSELF?
(http://www.usatoday.com/tech/webguide/internetli
Or just google about your sodomy-laws?
You are only free if it comes to destroying and consuming.
(and yes, there are a lot of things wrong in Germany, too.)
That was my first anime and one of my favorites.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Blazers
"To Err is Human To Forgive is Divine neither of which is Marine Corp Policy"-My SNCOIC
It is a classic statement that democracies don't make war with each others. Not even USA.
I shouldn't have shortened my statement, but I thought everyone had heard about it by now.
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You should be in Guinness book of records for largest double standards to judge different sides with. Consider:
I call bad troll.
True Believers really do seem to think that a factor of thousand worse are worth a thousand of the criticism -- but most aren't stupid enough to say it where it can be answered in writing.
My honest opinion, not an insult, is that I really hope you're a bad troll and not this stupid.
Let us see what more you write?
I try not to keep double standards of judging and believing anyone (except Microsoft) are evil. So it made my day when I was called not evolved by you with your double standards in judging of a factor of a million! He he...
Your arguments weren't coherent either. I don't have the energy or the interest, but some fast points:
US complained a lot about China when other countries (which also had business there) kept their mouths shut. And the US aren't a dictatorship (they don't implement it in other countries either, since even they start wars with dictators) -- so that means you support the worst dictators on the planet against democracies. I didn't understand that you believed that your conspiracy theories re natural resources was a relevant answer to my argument -- please give references to economical (non-extremist) literature... Etc, etc.
At least be an entertaining troll -- that was just sad. (And please don't claim that you're not a troll. I prefer to hope you're just a sad boy without a life and not that stupid.)
Now I'll go do stuff in my life. Please try to get one too, troll.
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Yeah, but can you shoot it out of a Laser Cat?
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
A phased plasma pulse-laser in the forty watt range...
They must have anticipated this, its obviously why they built several gigantic mirrors. And you thought it was only for burning up raging pirates.
Icemaann
http://www.nugg.org
For 'nationalization' read, of course, 'rationing of basic foodstuffs' (there's a nice article about this in that notorious right-wing rag, the New York Times). And democracy without vigorous protection for minority rights rarely ends well.
Mostly, though, it's just too tedious to work through a chain of no-true-scotsman arguments with the folks who are sure that Socialism is bound to work this time. No doubt in ten years when Chavez is still absolute ruler and has turned Venezuela into an unambigious Zimbabwaean-level disaster, this will all be down the memory hole and you'll be hyping up the next big thing.
Hundreds dead at a time?! Millions of homes destroyed?! Oh, no references? Strange... not.
Here is what HRW, a known Israel critic, has to say:
That means 449 for most of 2006, which was a very active year. Your claim of hundreds a time is idiocy -- Hell, you give stupid a bad name! You can't be this stupid and handle a keyboard. You must be a troll or have mental problems.
Can you give good references to any of your claims? At all?!
And the millions of houses... is there a million houses in the Palestine areas totally?! What a nitwit you are!
First you claimed that a democracy (Israel) is worth a thousand times more criticism than most any country (not other democracy) on the planet! Then you make idiotic claims re Syria, one of the worst dictatorships in the world!
Now you specifically claim that despite your insane claims about genocide etc done by democracies that you're not a useful idiot for the dictators?
Syria is one of the world's worst breakers of human rights and police states is worse than any democracy? How about some references, you lying idiot troll? This is what the well-known Israel-critic, HRW, has to say about Syria.
(I didn't read the rest. You are already shown to be a liar without neither a clue nor a reference.)
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Gun rights are far from the only way I measure freedom, but I do think they're enumerated second in the US Constitution for a good reason.
I'll certainly acknowledge that there used to be a good reason. But I fail to see how citizens armed with guns are going to fight any semi-modern national power (most importantly the U.S., since we're protecting ourselves from tyranny, right?). If gun rights advocates actually think that individual martial capacity protects their freedoms, why aren't they advocating legal ownership of more effective weapons for asymmetric warfare (e.g., explosives)? After all, the 2nd says "arms", not "guns".
My general impression is that most vocal supporters of gun rights are more concerned with protecting their particular hobby (which just so happens to have constitutional support) than with protecting their freedoms.
If other reasons we do lack, we swear no one will die when we attack
Eh, didnt really think about wether it was possible. Should have been a funny moderation.
(what follows is blah blah)
Hmm, if they have a mirror with inefficientcy of 3%, 3kW get through, which can heat a liter of water from 30 to 100 in 2.3 seconds. The amount of water required for cooling is reasonable. Dont think it as practical though, since you dont know where the laser will hit, and the area the laser shines on is small. (limits on cooling small area)
Why don't you get a life? Spell checkers and such don't always come up with the right words, people get tired, make minor mistakes etc. Try thinking of your errors when you get onto others. You may spell great, but you may have other weaknesses. How about bothering to comment on what is intended (and you knew what was intended) rather than being the spell check police?
Never Politically Correct ~ I prefer the facts If you don't like what I say, get a life, or comment yourself.
Your first claimed that Israel killed hundreds of Palestinians at a time and when I pointed out that HRW disagreed, you gave one "example" of Jenin, but see further down in the WikiPedia link you gave yourself:
You claimed the IDF killed hundreds "at a time" -- Jenin was an uniquely large battle and not even THAT supports your insane claims. You must have been aware of this and just looked for some bad references.
You're a pathetic fanatic -- here I found a lie in your first paragraph(!!), so I didn't read any further since this isn't the first time you are shown a shameless liar. Will you find some more bad references to support your idiocy now?
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Excuses? I showed that your claims were totally mindbogglingly wrong according to your own reference.
If you really is an uneducated idiot and didn't lie there, you certainly did lie here -- when you claimed that it was "excuses" when I showed your original claim wrong.
I wrote that I saw no reason to read the rest of your lies when you have consistently lied time and again while trying to defend impossible statements. You are a really, really boring troll.
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Oops: Water has capacity of 4184 J/K kg, also, maybe 10% is a better estimate for mirror efficientcy. Lets say the laser spot is 10cm across, and there is a 1 cm layer of water behind the mirror to cool it. This is 10*10*1=100 cm^3=0.1 liter of water, about 0.1 kg, so the water will only be heated at a rate of about 20 K/s. So it will take at least 5 seconds to get it to boil. And ofcourse you can circulate the water, with a minimum speed of only 10cm/5s=2 cm/s. So they could definitely make mirrors to withstand the laser. In most instances it isnt practical though, the lasers are the last thing on their mind, other weapons like rockets and machineguns are way more effective. An exception maybe is the use of lasers in defence against rockets, since the beam moves at the speed of light, it is possibly a lot cheaper and effective to use lasers rather then other rockets /rapid fire against them. (but this shows that a reflective coating for rockets can help protect them)
dont think that is true: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=224006&thresho ld=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=18165322#181811 62
Things just dont heat up quickly enough.
Great. Look at the moon with binoculars and see an ad etched into the surface. Erase Armstrong's footprints and claim Apollo didn't happen. Vaporize those darn music pirates.
OK. So you didn't come up with any excuses. Instead, you refused to discuss Israeli atrocities at all. Either way. Head in sand.
Wrong again. You claimed this. But your claim is patently false. I gave the example of Jenin, which you refuse to accept as this is somehow outside the realm of normal Israeli terrorist activity, so we're not allowed to talk about it.
Try addressing some of the issues I raised, do some research beyond the extreme right-wing, pro-Zionist trash you're mindwashed by, and return with a serious response when you are able.
Your accusation is just another lie since I quoted criticism of Israel from HRW here (when I showed you wrong on another point). My ability to complain about Israel isn't relevant -- let me recap:
Yet Another Lie. First, you made the specific claim that "Israel kills hundreds of Palestinians at a time , NOT in a year" so I quoted HRW (same link) to show you an idiot and/or a liar.
Then you claimed Jenin as a single example ("hundreds .. at a time" implies more than once) of hundreds of dead. I pointed out that even your own reference contradicted that even a hundred died in that battle -- then you lied in what you commented on. Now you back from that and lie and claim that I refuse to discuss Jenin, which is just another lie.
(Since you literally only argue with lies I don't bother with e.g. your complaints about Israeli democracy (according to you -- worth a thousand more times criticism than Syria, one of the worst police states on the planet!!) and your equally insa.. unique claim that all extreme political opinions should have equal amount of media access for a country to be a democracy, which would disqualify all countries. Do you know anything about the size and influence of the peace movement in Israel?)
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That is a lie in the first sentence again!! I jeered at you for making repeated insane claims on a subject, so you make attacks by lying about my opinions (which I haven't even discussed) and attack that straw man. For a specific list of your stupidities, go back to what you commented on here.
You can't be real -- you must be the most boring troll I've ever seen. At least use something else but lies and personal attacks. A good troll use perverted logic, too. Please learn to think.
A recap with references to this idiocy here:Karma: Excellent (My Karma? I wish...:-( )
I didn't read carefully -- here you didn't do another baseless attack on my opinions on subjects that hasn't been discussed. Here you claimed to not be a liar. I motivated my description of you as a disgusting liar; if you could have argued against that with more than another baseless claim, you would have.
For the rest, I discussed that in the other message.
FYI, I don't really care about the Mid East -- so your repeated personal attacks are irrelevant, liar. Israel is just another piece of land that changed hands after the both World Wars (hardly the most unfair land change either) and would not have become its own country if Israel hadn't been created. If that has to be changed, then there are lots of other map changes to do. (I follow the Mid East because of what it says about my local media.)
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So why don't you discuss all places where you have been shown talking utter crap without connection to reality? Like when you claimed that Israel killed hundreds at a time -- which you first couldn't support and then started lying when I pointed out that your own damn reference contradicted you. See what you commented, for a list of what a complete fanatical idiot you are -- with references.
So how did the Arabs get into the knesset? Around 20% of the Israeli population are Arabic -- and they have the rights to vote. Stop lying some damn time!
I don't have the energy to handle the rest of your lies (Israel doesn't generally start wars -- Hezbollah started acts of wars this summer by kidnapping, for instance.)
I took just one of your insane claims (about Israel being worth a thousand times the criticism than the worst dictators on the planet) and asked for support -- which you couldn't give, so you started lying to hide that -- and followed with personal attacks and lying about my position, which I haven't even discussed. The only damn reference you have given supported my position!!
You give fanatical liars a bad name.
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If you really aren't a troll, I have a message.
People using critical thinking try to look at facts first -- and then build opinions. Not the other way. We don't start thinking that Israel, muslims, marxists or any other group/country is bad. We are also aware of that most of our opinions are more-or-less wrong and will change over time. I have changed opinions on most subjects and they'll probably change again.
I have found that idealists like you have a model of the world -- and then confuse your world-model with your image of yourself. To point out that your opinion isn't supported by facts was to attack you as a person (like posting doctors records to you being impotent, or something) and since you had no support, you replied with lies and meaningless personal attacks. A sane reaction would be to realize that you have lots of opinions without reality basis since I could literally take anything testable you wrote and show it wrong.
And if you are going to again lie and claim my description of the "discussion" is wrong, see this overview of the last part.
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Oh that's a good one. MY lies? I think you'll find that Israel was the cause of this conflict. Hezbollah were responding to Israeli attacks that killed a number of Palestinians from the same family on a beach. And don't pretend you don't know that Israel has been constantly bombing Lebanese 'military targets' since the previous war you started with them.
Actually I did. I gave an example of Jenin. If you want more examples, try googling for Nakba. Fundamentalist Jews murdered hundreds of THOUSANDS of Palestinians in the killing frenzy that was to become the norm for Israel. You keep claiming that I'm lying and can't back up my claims, but in reality it is YOU who are a liar, and can't respond to the truth when it is staring you in the face.
Since you're a little dim and seem to want proof, proof and more proof, even though fundamentalist violence is a way of life for your kind, I will provide more links for you to ponder ( I assume you'll call them all LIES ):
'100s' killed in Jenin
117 Palestinians killed, hundreds injured during media's "relative calm"
'100s' killed in current military campaign
100s of children killed
So why don't you shut the fuck up about my supposed lies, and start apologising for your error? Come on. I'm waiting. Idiot.
I wrote that Hezbollah committed acts of war -- your claim that Hezbollah's motivation isn't relevant, idiot. And give refs to your claim about Hezbollah's motivation -- I haven't seen they claim that. Also, I don't know how that family died since someone seems to be lying about that --- who? I don't know -- and neither does you.)
There were extreme claims re Jenin at first which were then retracted. You quote old news stories about the first claims (and partisan references to the most propaganda-ized conflict in history!). This is documented in the link to wikipedia which you yourself gave -- and I quoted. So you must know that you lie here. And I already gave a link to HRW to show about total numbers of dead. Your lack of integrity in repeating known bad facts is incredible.
You lie as always. The Wipipedia don't support your version, it says:
The only mass murder mentioned was done on Jews, as usual. Also, as usual, you are shown to be a lying idiot.
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Here you even do racist attacks, which really is beyond the Pale in western society -- I guess your stinking racist ass are from the here, or something? I really hope you're a bad troll, but if not -- I wrote this as honest advice to you.
And how do you know that? It looked like realpolitik, i.e. Iran needed focus moved from their troubles -- and since they finance and train Hezbollah, they get what they want. Which seems in character, considering Hezbollah's present cynic power politics in Lebanon.
Everyone that disagree with you is a Jew? The Israelis motivated why it probably wasn't a miss from their artillery but a Palestinian mine on the beach -- did the IDF lie or was it wrong? I don't know. You don't know either -- but you are certain who is guilty! It is always the Jews!! Racist antisemite fanatic asshole.
You made claims -- I pointed out repeatedly that you haven't given any support -- and that even your own references contradicted you! (Also, Jenin's proganda that was retracted is well documented). You know all this -- but you claim victory and do racist attacks. You must be a troll, no single person on the planet can have that little integrity.
I gave a reference to Wikipedia and showed that your statements wasn't supported -- in fact, the systematic murders were on Jews by Arabs, as usual. That follows most other sources I've read (there was one documented massacre in one (1) Arab village, which you could have given a reference to).
Repeating empty claims when showed to be wrong implies a strong mind?! Another unique position... like that democracies are worth a million times more criticism than dictatorships -- even despite the democracy being false!! You claim to not lie -- but never discuss where I showed you wrong, time and time again (see references I gave above).
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I have shown you a liar and in the comment before this last one, you showed racism. I guess you have said more than enough...
Hmmm... it is interesting how you you define that I don't respond to your arguments, since you've complained about it twice. Could you answer a couple of specific questions?
Didn't I respond when I pointed out that the countries Israel are in conflict with are factors of ten worse in most any human rights parameter -- so you probably made a world record(!) in size of double standards when you claimed that Israel was worth a thousand times more criticism than e.g. Sudan?
When I showed that you were wrong about your claims about the Jews being mass murderers at the Nakba (the Arabs mass murdered and threw out Jews instead), I didn't respond when I disagreed and showed your antisemite lies to be wrong yet again?
You made wrong claims about Jenin (see first references on the page). I didn't respond because I showed you wrong instead of agreeing with your repeated claim that Israel is a thousand times worse than Sudan? Or didn't I respond when I jeered at you for lying and repeating your wrong claims about Jenin even after I pointed out that you were totally wrong?
In my last post, didn't I respond when I pointed out how extremely bad style it is in the western world to do racist attacks? The worst insult in the west is "racist". Or didn't I respond when I reminded you about how pathetic you were when shown wrong by lying and doing personal attacks? Or didn't I respond when I laughed about your claim that you had a "strong mind" after doing racism attacks and all that fanatical bullshit?
I attacked just a few of your insanities which I had the energy to read. I really, really hope you're a troll and not this pathetic. If not, please read this link.
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I just read your first half paragraph since that was enough to find shameless lies. Since I didn't read the rest, I don't know if there are more racist attacks there, you extreme troll and/or lying asshole.
I gave a reference to WikiPedia (which agrees with every non-antisemite source I've seen) that showed your version to be a pack of lies. The first time you made that claim, it might have been stupidity -- but you do lie here. As usual.
"Strange" that you didn't give references to these "4 examples"!! Here is where I showed you wrong first. You then tried Jenin and Nakba -- I showed Nakba wrong in the Wikipedia reference above and Jenin here.. Now you invent more examples that you can't give references to! How pathetic you are. (And here is a short list of a few more of all your lies.)
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You do a straw man attack on what I have written -- that means you lie a description of my position and then attack what you described. I have not discussed the Israel-Palestina conflict at all (as I wrote here).
I have just pointed out where you make statements you can't defend and then lie when denying them. Here you lie so that people browsing won't find e.g. when you used racist slurs like "You stupid fucking retarded Jew!", racist asshole.
Are you lying here or just totally uneducated about the peace movement (see also this) in Israel and all the very varied political standpoints? Please note what a demonstration of 400,000 means in a country with that low population... You are probably lying since I pointed out this before.
I pointed out that Israel is a working democracy and that you lied when you claimed that Arab citizens (20% of the population) didn't have votes... That was not the full argument I gave -- you do another straw man here. I used that as argument here.
As I commented in the other message, you lie here. I gave a reference here -- and you gave none. I think your position is normal Arab antisemitic propaganda.
You are joking -- not even you with your lies, racist slurs and shameless straw man attacks would write that!?
This is just too... much.
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I get tired of adding this reference to where I showed you wrong -- I should add a bunch of places where you repeated that claim, ignoring that I had answered.
This is a good review of some of your pathetic tries to argue (should add references to your straw man attacks on this point -- and lies when you claim I haven't answered).
Wow, that was really impressive dishonesty when commenting on a quote of yours -- "You stupid fucking retarded Jew!".
And I also noted that I don't really care about the Mid East either, so your racist attacks only speaks volumes about yourself.
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Ahh... the old standard for non-serious debaters -- accuse the other side of doing the same lies as you do yourself, so anyone reading will just see two people calling each others the same names!
I didn't deny anything. You lie about what I wrote and do a straw man attack. I wrote:
(You stopped racist attacks after I pointed out in that message how bad they are in the West...)
Google for Pallywood to find out why I don't trust either side (the Israeli side probably do something similar). You might make a good argument that the media planning seems more important than any weapons.
I note that the IDF don't earn political points by killing civilians (you argue that Israel is evil -- still no comments to my references to the Israeli peace movement, btw?). After the start of a civil war, few doubts the Palestinians lack the will to kill a family of some other clan.
What happened at that beach? Again -- I don't have enough information to have an opinion -- and you lie about what I wrote. Business as usual.
(The articles I quoted had some references to where I've shown you wrong. I have lost count since this garbage began about here.)
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