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Leopard Upgraders Getting "Blue Screen of Death"
Z80xxc! writes "Some Mac users upgrading to Apple's new Leopard operating system are encountering long delays on reboot — an experience they liken to the Windows 'Blue Screen of Death.' While some of those upgrading were able to access their computer after waiting for as long as several hours, others were forced to do a complete reinstall. Some suspect that a framework called 'Application Enhancer' by Unsanity LLC may be causing the problem, but there has been no official word from Apple at this point."
Archive and install!
It's the safest way to upgrade. Yes, it's less convenient, but way better than finding out that some 3rd party tweak is not compatible the hard way...
In addition Apple have pulled support for time machine on airport disks in the last minute. Big stinker. It's bad enough that Aperture can't use airport disks for vaults...
TCAP-Abort
people are so fucking stupid
"oh no this 3rd party application which adds dubious and useless enhancements to my system is causing my computer to not work upon upgrading to a completely new version!"
bust out the slashdot article I guess
Except that when it's windows, the comments are more along the lines of "the OS shouldn't let stuff like this happen! M$ is TOTALLY at fault here!!!1!1!!1!1"
Unsanity is officially listed by the company not to worik with 10.5
http://www.wire-heads.com/istrip/index.php?strip_id=26
I have done this on two Macs so far, my PowerBook G4 @1.5 GHz and a G5 iMac @2.1 GHz Both have Application Enhancer as well as Fruit Menu, WindowShade X and other Unsanity products installed. They still show up in System Preferences, but are not functioning. I'm hoping for updates soon. However, their presence in my systems had no ill effect on my Leopard upgrades.
I had used Application Enhancer for a while, but Photoshop became very crash-prone; a friend reported Safari crashes after installing it. I wouldn't suggest it to anyone.
Also, rule of thumb: 100% clean installs are always the safe way to go. Back up your stuff, wipe the HD, then restore as needed.
Circumcision is child abuse.
Yep, and it would be tagged as "defectivebydesign" and "haha". You know, MS is a near-monopoly so their products do deserve a good deal of good old unfair bashing...
Anyone experiencing this should try holding shift while booting. Any additional frameworks, kexts, and whatever will be left out and the system will boot cleanly. If that works, then the offending software should show up in a log and can be identified and removed.
There is no need to reinstall when something can be removed easily with a safe boot. Too bad Apple doesn't talk up safe booting more so people will know it is there.
It really IS catching up with Vista!
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
I don't see what hippos have to do with this, but if you're making some comparison about the weight and gracefulness of a hippo with MS then I'm with you...
Any time there is a major OS version, it's foolhardy to 'Upgrade' in that there is no way for the vendor (in this case Apple) to possibly test for each potential configuration. While it's true that this may make the move to a new platform base take longer (with needed software reinstallation) it's the best way to ensure a smooth transition, and also assist the end-user AND the software vendors in question to bug squash.
It's easy to point fingers, and the upgrade process should in truth be discontinued altogether (imco) and rather provide utilities that will help a user migrate personal settings and preferences to a new build via a back-up utility of some type. To be fair, Apple does a GREAT job by providing the archive and install method which goes half-way but does not provide the opportunity to 'archive and clean install' which would be the ideal case.
For myself, I can't wait to step into the time machine, and also get the new features available in the OS X Server product.
if I claimed I was emperor just because some watery tart lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away!
This is hardly the first time Unsanity's stuff has caused problems with a new version of OS X. If people are too damned dumb to uninstall their unsupported-hack add-ons before upgrading, that's their problem, not Apple's.
And no matter how much better OS X is than Windows w/r/t the "it just works" aspect, things can and do still go wrong sometimes. A little pre-upgrade basic system maintenance never hurts (at least repair permissions and verify/repair the target disk from Disk Utility on the Leopard CD), and neither does making a bootable clone of the system in case you have to revert.
~Philly
"Hippocracy is not pretty"
Hippos may eat apples but they sure aren't pretty animals.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Hippocracy? Is that the system of government where horses are the ruling class?
The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. - Albert Einstein
Command-v during the boot chime (or "sudo nvram boot-args=-v" to set it permanently). This shows a lot of "scary" unixy output, but it's great for diagnosing a boot problem.
:).
Of course, I'm a cli guy
I upgraded to Leopard with my LaCie drive attached via Firewire, so that Time Machine would recognize it. I also let it set over night to do the full backup (which I think it did--saw 150GB disappear from that disk). Now today, that same LaCie drive is back where it belongs attached to Airport Extreme, and anytime that that volume shows up on the network, Time Machine seems to recognize it. That is, I am able to enter the Time Machine restore interface, and I can start or stop a backup.
I want to plug that drive back into my laptop directly over night, then see how it goes tomorrow. I am optimistic that as long as the initial set of backups are completed, the incrementals may be manageable via AEBS. Given that Macs always recognize volumes as the same regardless of whether they are attached directly or over the network, I'm hoping Time Machine won't mind.
It isn't. A kernel panic is the Mac OS X equivalent of a BSOD. If the machine takes hours to launch after an upgrade, or doesn't launch at all, it's a different kind of failure. I speak from first-hand experience, as this happened to me. Thankfully I keep good daily backups.
No I wouldn't, James. Who are you talking about? Care to provide an example?
Neither Slashdot readers, Apple users, nor Microsoft users operate as a collective unit. Just because User B says something that contradicts User A, it does not make either a "hippo"-crite.
ENDUT! HOCH HECH!
You can either give up on an upgrade and do a fresh install or an archive/install. If you want to be able to upgrade, try this to manually get rid of APE: Please note that this does involve manipulation of files from the root prompt. This is not for the faint-of-heart, or those who are unfamiliar with the UNIX file system/command structure. 1. Reboot into single-user mode (hold Cmd-S while booting machine) 2. Follow the directions OSX gives you when you get to the prompt (I think these were them - just type the two commands it tells you to): fsck -fy / /sbin/mount -uw /
3. Remove the following files:
rm -rf /Library/Preference Panes/Application Enhancer.prefpane
rm -rf /Library/Frameworks/Application Enhancer.framework
rm -rf /System/Library/SystemConfiguration/Application Enhancer.bundle
rm -rf /Library/Preferences/com.unsanity.ape.plist
4. Exit, to continue booting normally
exit
or else!
Has a budget of billions of dollars.
Lets not even think about how much they will spend on the dept of Apples, Carrots and Molasses.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
What makes this all the more ironic is that in the new CoverFlow Finder, PCs on the network are displayed with a Blue Screen of Death... teeeheee!
I hate monopolies, and I am posting from my Apple computer, which uses Apple's OSX, and has an Apple mouse, keyboard, and monitor. I connect wirelessly through my Apple router, email with my Apple webmail account. I'm also listening to music on my Apple iPod, which I purchased from my Apple iTunes account.
Damn that evil Microsoft monopoly!!! Always forcing everyone to use their products!!
Yep, I got it - I didn't have the patience to wait that long, so since I had backups, just whacked everything and did a clean reinstall.
For a while I was worried though, since I had dropped my MacBook about 3 feet the day before, and thought it was a hardware problem.
1) backup your home directories first
2) do not let the install do a straight upgrade, use the archive and install option or erase/install if you have reliable backups and can afford a little risk and a little more work
3) remove any programs that integrate themselves with the OS (hint: these will often add new preference options to the system preferences pane). These programs almost always have issues during an upgrade and are often not supported right away by new operating systems due to their nature.
These are just some basic guidelines, but if you have any specific questions or concerns, ask Apple and search for answers prior to installation. Not rocket science, but most users have never upgraded their own OS before and Apple makes it appear that anyone can do it without the slightest worry. That's close to the truth, but not close enough.
Creationists are a lot like zombies. Slow, but powerful and numerous. And they all want to eat our brains.
Just remember, if windows got taken down by a third party app, not only would you be screaming and shouting...
Not under circumstances like this, we wouldn't. Some of Unsanity's programs are pretty invasive little things that fuck around with the OS in ways that Apple doesn't support. From their site:
So yeah, if you have even a vague understanding of what this product does, it shouldn't be any surprise that it could cause problems if you threw it on a new/unknown version of the operating system. This isn't just a "3rd party application". It's not like if Windows crashed when you installed Firefox (which Microsoft would get criticized for), but more like if Windows crashed when you tried to use an obscure and invasive 3rd party WindowsXP hack on Windows Vista (which Microsoft would not get criticized for).
And it's not even clear that OSX itself crashed (as in a kernel panic). For as few details are available, it could just be that Finder or the installer crashed, which wouldn't be surprising if APE is screwing around with those applications' memory space.
It's "this 3rd party application which adds absolutely essential enhancements to my system isn't compatible with he new OS".
There are similar Windows applications that modify the OS. They have been known to not work on new versions of the OS. Even the most extreme Microsoft skeptic wouldn't say it was Microsoft's fault if Windowblinds had to be upgraded to work with Vista.
If you're doing an upgrade to the OS, and you're using any third party system extensions, you remove them before you upgrade. That's pretty basic.
I was worried when I first saw it until I found that it was a 3rd party app causing the issue. The summary would lead me to believe it was a defect in Leopard. It would be nice to mention it's a 3rd party issue and not Apple's fault in the summary.
Well, why doesn't Sun provide downloads for Java 6? Can't expect Apple to do all the work for *Sun*'s product.
If you're using a lot of OS extensions, then don't be a pioneer. Let other people install early.
It's time to realise that Abble's products are the biggest abomination these days. Just say NO to the dumb iAbble way!!
But if it is APE then well then that's kinda understandable its the singlemost invasive kernel mod of all.
APE is not a kernel mod. It runs entirely in user mode.
Too bad Apple doesn't talk up safe booting more so people will know it is there.
Too bad Apple doesn't do the user-friendly thing, which is to offer users "safe mode" when the previous boot failed. That's what both Linux and Windows do, and it's the right thing to do (well, even better would be detecting and disabling broken extensions, but I guess that's too hard for any of them).
It conflates two issues, BSOD and lag. I was about to lmbaste Mac users for stupidly confusing the two,
but after checking the article it was only the submitter and editor.
Were that I say, pancakes?
If you had Linux apps that worked the way APE does, it would bring down the entire system, too. The only reason you don't is that Linux doesn't have a community of people who long for the olden days of Mac OS 9. I'll explain.
Back in Mac OS 9, apps didn't have protected memory, and thus you could write extensions to the OS that quite literally rewrote parts of applications and the OS itself. Mac OS X uses a more proper model like Linux. However, some people still want to do those sorts of mods to the OS. The result was that the Unsanity folks created APE. APE basically sits down at the linker level and starts an additional thread with its own code running inside the address space of the target application. This thread then loads plug-ins that modify the behavior of the app.
You should immediately see the problem with this. You have a bunch of people who don't have anything to do with the author of an application writing code that mass-modifies dozens of applications, libraries, etc., essentially doing binary patching on the running OS. There's no other phrase to describe this other than mind-bogglingly dangerous. In a biological comparison, it's like rewriting the genetic code of the entire planet using only a single person as a template---as soon as you hit a person with slightly different biology, the patch goes completely wrong. Similarly, when APE tries to operate on new versions of the OS, new versions of applications, new versions of frameworks and libraries, etc., it tends to result in cutting a path of destruction rather than enhancing anything.
What blows my mind is that APE isn't smart enough to check the OS version and NOT LOAD. It is truly unbelievable. How hard is it to say if [ "$(sw_vers -productVersion | sed -E 's/([0-9]+\.[0-9]+)\..*/\1/')" != "10.4" ] ; then syslog -s "unknown OS version." ; exit 0; fi? Every OS release, APE causes some sort of major problem for a lot of users. Every OS release, people just keep coming back and reinstalling it even after seeing the fallout. I just don't get it. It's like Stockholm Syndrome or something....
IMHO, the Unsanity team should be taken out and beaten with wet noodles until the mere sight of a Chinese restaurant causes them to have nightmares for a year.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
It would be wonderful if it worked that way. However, Apple has decided that they (not Sun) will be the source of Java for Mac boxes. This moderately irritates me in that I'm a Java developer, and would like to be able to test with Java 6. So, to do so, I have to keep a copy of Parallels and Ubuntu around.
Karma: Chameleon - mostly influenced by bad '80s New Wave music
Gee, what are the odds that changing the underlying application would cause such a module to *not* wreak havoc on a system?
Pretty good, actually, given that only a fraction of users have problems. It's when you're binary-patching the kernel at runtime that you really have to start worrying... I've done that, on occasion, once I was still up to my elbows in debuggers five minutes before a demo for the CEO because two drivers decided to give completely different entry points the same name. It's a shame that Apple makes it necessary to do this kind of shenanigans... and I wasn't planning on upgrading until after Unsanity had gotten their stuff working reliably under Leopard anyway.
Unfortunately for Apple, it's OS competitor has a much better track record in the quality of new releases.
You're right: Ubuntu kicks Apple's ass not just in terms of included functionality, graphics, and price, but also in terms of smooth upgrades.
I've upgraded 3 Machines, all Intel based and haven't had any significant issues. I did however have a significant delay while doing the install on my iMac. It took about 30-45 minutes once the install application said "About a minute". Other than that delay everything went perfectly smooth.
Although I still have to upgrade my G5; and that could turn out differently.
Unsanity's Application Enhancer uses the debugger framework to access and modify an application's memory space. Since Leopard randomizes memory, one might expect that trouble would ensue.
The Unsanity hacks have been a source of trouble for many users for several years. Unsanity has vehemently denied that their products are the trouble, and by a twisted piece of logic, it is the application itself which is misbehaving when things go wrong. It's not hard to find heated discussions of these things on message boards and sites like versiontracker.com and macupgrade.com. The source of the disagreements might be related to how long a person leaves an application open, with the probability of mayhem increasing with time since launch. These remarks relate to pre-Leopard versions of the OS; it seems that Unsanity is finally caught with their pants down and no place to crap.
I think it points out a larger problem that apple has, for the most part, addressed - why can't the OS come bundled with "all the little utilities and applications" you've come to depend on?
How has Apple addressed this when two of the Haxies I use, as well as two kernel modules I've installed, are there to work around problems Apple themselves are responsible for?
Windows doesn't have this problem because people don't do straight in-place upgrades on Windows.
OMG, hacks that aren't even supported on the old version of the OS can cause problems on the new versions of the OS? This is a rather disturbing turn of events. Next thing you know you won't be able to randomly yank out pieces of hardware while the system is booting!
Unsanity is a company that basically does nothing but make products guaranteed to cause crashes and instability by doing crazy things to system-level components, all for the sake of bling. If you're running their "haxies" (gag, whoever came up with that word needs to be kicked in the groin repeatedly) you're asking for trouble on any version of Mac OS. This is not news, this is the status quo.
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
In other words, it changes the executable code in memory of a running application. Gee, what are the odds that changing the underlying application would cause such a module to *not* wreak havoc on a system?
Redefining the "minimize window action" or "customizing the standard Apple menu" should not require "moifying the executable code of a running application".
The fact that on OS X, utilities like APE have to do this is indicative of bad underlying software design.
There would have to be at least couple of posts depicting Steve Balmer (or the Anti-Steve as he is known to Apple fanboys), throwing chairs, jumping around and listening to the music on the Zune (brown) while chewing on a bucket of penguin drumsticks he bought from Bin Laden.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Yeah, about those Vista installs...
I said you could check your email and play a few games while I went out for beer, not trash the place.
I use haxies to remove Apple's bling.
And I sure wasn't planning on upgrading to Leopard until I knew APE was supported on it.
Oh, and they don't go anywhere near the OS. That's why they're Application enhancers, not kernel enhancers. I've got a few of those, too... they're called "drivers" and "kernel extensions".
Oh please, you don't need to look hard to see what comments get moderated up on this site. Groupthink is strong here, whether you notice it or not. Say the right thing and you'll be rewarded with meaningless moderation points, and a bunch of "me too" responses. Throw in some classic Slashdot cliches to really fit in, and you'll do great. People would rather devolve every discussion into this needlessly epic "us vs. them" debate so they can justify their dogma. I'm not terribly surprised though, given that people pride themselves on not reading articles here. Knowing that, who wants their kudos anyway?
Overall the "there's more than one person here" argument is something you can say to feel better, but that doesn't make it true.
Or will that come with the next update?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Which, mind you, is often the cause of a failed upgrade under Windows.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
I'm sorry but your suggestion that Apple would produce and release a product that doesn't work flawlessly out of the box is heretical and simply not true. This idea is contrary to SlashThought, and your account should be deleted.
I don't recall any case "around here" where Windows got slammed because some third party application caused OS upgrade problems.
Other than your knee-jerk reactionary statement to the article, do you even have a clue as to what "Application Enhancer" is? While it's a great gateway to enable other haxies and features, it doesn't surprise me that this is the case. More than likely this is the result of people who have this installed while running Tiger, then do an upgrade (i.e. dirty) install of Leopard. It's not just a point release, there are some significant changes to the code... For instance, NetInfo.. try and find it... I dare ya.
This also brings up a good point: Who is ultimately responsible? As far as I can see, Apple and Microsoft are responsible for creating a stable platform that can support and run third party applications. Third party developers are responsible for creating applications that work with what they are given, and don't do anything to screw with it. Say you're doing some home improvement on your roof. You rent a ladder from a company, but it doesn't quite reach your roof. You sit it upon a chair to make it reach, resulting in your fall and injury. Who's responsible here? Apple shouldn't be blamed here, just as Microsoft shouldn't be blamed for third party app failures. If on the other hand, the ladder broke as you were climbing it, they would be to blame. It's all a matter of knowing what you can do to an OS, and who ultimately causes the failure.
What Apple will do I release Java 6 as an update for Leopard only and as people release Java 6 only apps you will be forced into running Leopard.
I figure it will be like they did with Java 5 released only for Tiger, no Panther Support - if you go to the Java site and they say go to the Apple site.
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
I don't doubt that Leopard has some bugs. Probably even many of them. I did an "Upgrade Install" and have a fair amount of 3rd party apps installed including some utilities. Knowing I might have problems I disabled several of them before installing and others I looked up to see if they support Leopard. Of course a good many didn't have any info on Leopard yet.
However I would bet there are a good many people who have existing problems with their system and don't know it or have applications installed that they don't really understand could be dangerous. I'm willing to bet though that this is more likely to be a third party issue than a Leopard issue just from my own experience... but who knows. Like most of these types of problems with any new OS (Windows, OS X, Linux, what-have-you) I doubt that it is widespread. IMHO headlines like this one should be considered flame-bait unless someone can conclusively prove Apple's at fault.
Large print giveth, and the small print taketh away
It might be worth mentioning that on Windows, the api call, CreateRemoteThread() allows you to do what is described here (create a thread in a remote process), without loading any 3rd party hack extensions.
When all freedom is outlawed only the outlaws have freedom
I've noticed that is the latest groupthink to make the rounds. it's a statement about as useful as "i know I'll get modded down for this..." which inevitably gets modded up.
There are a lot of people on slashdot (and I guess in the world in general) who seem to enjoy being the victim of some massive conspiracy, rather than perhaps recognizing that when lots of people disagree with them it really is just a lot of people thinking they're wrong.
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
You have a bunch of people who don't have anything to do with the author of an application writing code that mass-modifies dozens of applications, libraries, etc., essentially doing binary patching on the running OS.
I've done that as well. I mean, binary patching the actual OS, not just applications running in userland. Sometimes you gotta do it.
If you knew what GNU libc does to try and avoid having to make people rebuild applications when upgrading libraries, you'd run screaming. They have code in there to look for libraries at runtime and dynamically load different variants of other libraries depending on what you're using and what you have installed. The glibc team has people who do nothing but look for cases where they have to adapt for different libraries and different kernel versions.
The reason that you don't have more of a problem on Linux is that there's no central Steve Jobs for Linux who dictates the way the GUI works, so if you don't like the way Enlightenment or fvwm or Windowmaker behaves, you can change it. The downside of this is that there's no single framework you can modify or replace to make global changes. There used to be, back when everyone used Athena Widgets, and you could replace libXaw with libXaw95 to get a Windows 95 look, or with libXawSTeP to get a NeXTSTeP look. Now, instead, you get Battluin GUIs between the Gnome and KDE yobbos.
And there's all kinds of Windows hacks that do similar stuff to APE, from development tools to simple user interface enhancements. And, yes, they can cause problems and break in new versions of the OS.
What Unsanity has done is to create a framework that makes this kind of thing relatively safe compared to having everyone build their own. Unfortunately since they're not at Apple or someone that Apple is willing to support (because they are undoing the things that The Steve has decreed) there's an unhealthy passive-aggressive relationship between Apple and Unsanity that doesn't exist between (say) Debian and the glibc team.
And, yes, they should be disabling themselves on upgrade. And Apple should look at the things that people are using Haxies for and make the things they are trying to get rid of optional.
The other thing is, on Windows people simply don't put their trust in having an upgrade work. They do clean installs. And they wait on upgrading Windows until this kind of thing gets shaken out.
Windows getting taken down by Antivirus software is one thing. If a Vista upgrade failed because an unsupported version of WindowBlinds was installed, no tears would be shed.
Don't be blind to the fact that the escalating number of new Mac users are mostly former Windows admins and users. Fewer Mac users are ignorant to the pros and cons of Windows than vice-versa.
Yeah, and they use documented, official, supported methods of extending the OS, specifically so that crazy unpredictable behavior is avoided even when the OS is updated.
Well, I don't know about you, but I wasn't planning to upgrade to Leopard without removing my enhanced drivers and kernel extensions either.
But my core point is that if Apple didn't insist on forcing bling on us, people wouldn't go to this kind of extreme just to remove the bling.
Remember, it is Microsoft's fault that application developers don't liveup to the security model that was in XP and Vista, and thus tons of permissions boxes popup. I suppose the default account should be admin like in XP... no wait, that sucks too.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Well there are going to be some trolls about anything... The nature of a real troll is not to even care if you're right, but just to get a response.
But a lot of the Windows criticism around these parts is pretty valid, and in at least this particular instance, the criticism of Apple isn't valid.
I had to deal with the same problem. It seems opting for archive and install will help you go through whatever problem (mostly) without any problem once the installation process is over. Going to single user mode (Apple+S on startup) and examining the logs ( /var/log/system.log ) will probably tell you what it told me. The WindowsServer segfaults/crashes which is why nothing actually happens after the blue screen. Chances are some of the /System/.. and/or /Library/.. files that affect the operation of the WindowsServer are to blame.
Your best source for information on the subject ( other than this ./ thread ) is Apple Discussions 'BSOD' thread.
Technology ramblings : Simple is Beautiful
dpkg doesn't upgrade anything that you've installed that didn't come from the dpkg repositories. If you installed anything yourself, you're out of luck.
The only reason this isn't an issue on Linux is that there isn't any ecosystem of commercial software... there's a handful of commercial applications you can buy for Linux, and pretty much all of them are server apps. And it's that commercial ecosystem that really makes OSX worthwhile... if it was just a nice-looking free-UNIX distribution with alll the software downloaded via Fink or DarwinPorts nobody would use it.
You meant why doesn't APE do this?
SInt32 vers = 0;
err = Gestalt(gestaltSystemVersion, &vers);
if (err or (vers >= 0x1050))
{
return paramErr;
}
(which I just took from the APE source code).
I've gotten blue screen with no login prompt before under Tiger on my machines several times. Usually it means that one of the drives failed to spin up. Pressing the reset button or equivalent procedure usually clears it up.
I don't have Leopard yet, and can only run it on one of my machines. Others will be staying with Tiger.
Now if only I can get Software Associates' ReadDVD! UDF 2.5 drivers to work on those Tiger installs. (Can anyone confirm UDF 2.5 and 2.6 support on release version of Leopard, needed for reading HD-DVD and BluRay disks? Apple's Tech Specs were silent on this.)
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Before I upgrade. I've had Unsanity's Application Enhancer do some weird things to my machine, like making it so it won't sleep, and the only reason I'm using it now is because Transparent Dock doesn't work with the Dock installed with the Safari Beta. All that said, I've never trusted haxies that much.
I am a believer of momentum and curves.
I like OS X and all, but most organizations are very careful with upgrading to a new release of Windows (or any OS for that matter). There are always going to be 3rd party apps that interfere with any new OS version, regardless of flavor. The best process for business/gov is to have some test machines and if you are a casual home user, the best process it to wait to make sure your favorite apps are compatible, installing it on launch day is for the early adopters who weren't in the beta program, not for mission critical tasks.
Just remember, if windows got taken down by a third party app, not only would you be screaming and shouting about bill gates?
Why? I'd happily say it's not Microsoft's fault if someone replaced part of the WIndows kernel causing Vista upgrades to fail.
At least OSX has the option for "Archive & Install", which might get past this - or failing that a clean install with user migration from your backed-up user directory. Because you ALWAYS makea backup of your user directory before a major system upgrade, regardless of OS...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I had another problem of some sort. The install proceeded to verify the DVD media, which checked out ok, and then it said it was intalling. It also said it was calculating the time remaining, and never got past that point... after a long while it said an unexpected error ocurred.
:(
Upon rebooting it would show the startup apple for a few seconds and then power off, with and without the software dvd in the drive.
I forced it to boot off the dvd, and discovered that the hard drive was corrupt - the disk check utility couldn't fix it. I had to format and install a fresh system.
All in all, that's probably not a bad idea anyway, and I have a good backup system in place, so I didn't lose anything.
Nevertheless, corrupting my HD is not a good thing.
I know I'll get modded down for this, but I agree with everything you said.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
The haha tag is now visible. And that feels good. Really. Just because all the fanboys are mad.
Maybe "swivers?" ...
And it is still a terrible idea. You can make very few safe assumptions about the target process. You don't know the state of the heap, so you have to use your own heap for that thread. You don't know the base address for DLLs, so you have to use only kernel32.dll functions (and that is luck that it always loads at the same base address for every process).
But the absolute worst part about CreateRemoteThread() isn't the fact that it does what it says. It is the simple fact that you need to actually inject your thread function into the target process. That is, you need to copy the assembly necessary to run your thread into the target process. WriteProcessMemory() is an API call that will get you flagged as malware by a lot of AV utilities, but is necessary to use CreateRemoteThread().
Not quite. I don't believe in a grand conspiracy or anything silly like that. But I do see absolutely asinine comments that contribute nothing to the discussion and are based purely on anecdotal or otherwise unreliable (e.g. unscientific) knowledge be moderated up simply because they are praising the Corporate Flavor of the Month. And I see other comments that are making actual, valid points be lost in the shuffle sometimes.
There is too much favoritism based upon whether the moderator/follow-up posters like the subject being discussed. The actual point is not as important. I suppose this is the price we pay for not actually reading the article and being informed: knowledge is nice to have, but not essential when discussing things. I notice you did not address this point in my post and am curious to know what you think about it. I'm not sure why this sort of intellectual laziness is tolerated so much around here. It only reinforces my point that much of the 'discussion' that goes on here is founded on emotional, anecdotal grounds.
Yeah, because no upgrade problems happen to Ubuntu.
Yeah.
Actually Apple has commented on APE some time ago. The official word is that they do not support it and crash reports that are submitted which evidence the presence of APE are ignored. This goes back to 10.4
Learn from the mistakes of others. You cannot live long enough to make them all yourself.
I would argue Apple has it harder. Leopard supports 32 and 64 bit versions of PPC and Intel hardware from a single install DVD. The OS is 64 bit when on 64 bit hardware and yet allows 32 bit drivers and apps to run on that 64 bit hardware and OS. I have yet to see a Windows OS accomplish that.
This space for rent.
The problem is not about the trolls, but about the moderators modding up the trolls. Why is the criticism of Apple not valid? They have failed to test the upgrade with a commonly used software.
This space for rent.
Wow.. I'm as big an Apple fan as the next guy. My primary desktop is my MacBook Pro, my Mini is my HTPC, I even have an iPhone.
But, unlike may of my brethren, I don't see Apple as infallible. Come on guys.. Installing third party apps is not unreasonable behavior. To expect that they will work through Apple's upgrade process is not either. Don't paint this as "you morons shouldn't expect this to work".
I upgraded my Tiger OS, without ripping out all the things I suspected as possible problems (Parallels being #1 on that list). Of course, I did a complete system backup to a firewire drive first. To my pleasant surprise, Leopard came up without problems. I haven't run Parallels yet, but everything else seems okay.
I thought the article was going to talk about this or this.
If you connect to a Windows machine, the icon for that machine in Leopard is a beige monitor with a BSOD!
Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
Unsanity warns you that they are making deep modifications to the user interface and patching applications dynamically when they are loaded. They are not "just apps", they are not even like Parallels which does come with a kernel extension... because it runs as a regular application otherwise. Not to mention that Apple considers Parallels a key player, but has a definite problem with Unsanity.
I'm not saying that people who are having this problem are morons, but I don't think they should be so quick to blame Apple for this... unless you're suggesting that Apple actively broke APE or something?
My car 'just works'
Even with regular maintenance, I still get unexpected interruptions of service now and then.
Nothing technically 'just works' all the time if you want to bitch and moan about all the corner cases where it can break, but there are things designed to work with very little fuss, for a reasonably long time.
Point is, 'just works' doesn't have anything to do with occasional bugs, but describes how something was designed/is intended to happen, and the reliability to work as intended. That's where Mac OS X, and my car wins the title. For the most part, they work very simply, as intended.
Yeah, and I continue to think that this statement of "groupthink" as a given is overblown and always has been. I see lots of ridiculous things get modded up and down, and it usually has more to do with when it was posted or how authoritative it *seems* than the specific content of the post.
I think a lot of critics are ascribing to bias and groupthink are much more easily explained by convenience and persuasive ability. There are also a lot of critics who like to bitch because for 15 minutes a specific obviously trollish post was modded up, and ignore the fact that it was modded right back down 15 minutes later and their bitching had nothing to do with it. I rarely see truly insightful posts get ignored. I see lots of people bitching about truly insightful posts being ignored, usually attached to said post which is at +5, not because of their bitching but because it takes more than 30 seconds after a post is made for moderation to take meaningful effect.
Pretty much every bias/groupthink that has been "unquestionably" proven to exist on slashdot, the opposite has been proven at some other time. It's a big group of people doing their own thing, it rarely flies in a tight formation.
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
I had the "Developer Preview" for JAVA 1.6 installed... when I upgraded my MacBook Pro to Leopard, it no longer works: BR-MBP:~ brwyatt$ java Invalid memory access of location 00000000 eip=8fe18aa2 # # An unexpected Java error has been detected by HotSpot Virtual Machine. # # If this error is reproducible, please report it with the following information: # 1. Provide the steps to reproduce, a test case, and any relevant information # 2. The corresponding JavaNativeCrash_pid.crash.log (Java state) # 3. The corresponding .crash.log (native state; generated by CrashReporter)
# 4. This data:
#
# Java VM: Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (1.6.0-b88-17-release mixed mode, sharing)
# An unexpected error has been detected by Java Runtime Environment:
#
# Bus Error (0xa) at pc=0x8fe18aa2, pid=282, tid=8431616
# An error report file with more information is saved as /Users/brwyatt/Library/Logs/Java/JavaNativeCrash_pid282.crash.log
#
#
# File report at: http://bugreport.apple.com/
#
Segmentation fault
Other than that, everything else works fine for me... can't wait for 10.5.1 when they fix all the bugs....
errr, no!
Hippos
There's no suspicion about it; that's exactly what's causing the problem. Application Enhancer is an input manager, and input managers are no longer supported in Leopard. People installing it knew the risks they were taking when they installed it on Tiger. Instructions have already been posted online on how to remove Application Enhancer from the command-line.
Sorry, there's no big "BSOD" error in Leopard's install. It's a hacky piece of software people shouldn't have been installing in the first place.
"Sufferin' succotash."
While Windows hasn't had to deal with the specific issues you mention, the diversity of hardware suppported by Windows has almost been much greater than those supported by the Mac. So I'd say that Windows still has it harder.
You can also do it with a global hook. That'd force every process to load your DLL into memory.
Sun seems to think that Java is owed a living. Remember how they tried to get the government to force MS to install it on Windows? If they were really serious about Java they would have sent out CDs like AOL used to do.
Offtopic prediction: If there's a Java 7, Java fans will be saying that it fixes Java performance - just like they say for every new version.
14 upgrades, 4 reformats and 2 archive and install. 0 problems.
Thats 10 G5's and 4 Mac Pro's with upgrades.
Thats 4 MacBook Pros reformats.
Thats 2 Powerbooks with archive and install.
You can mod me any way you like, but it wont change the success I've had with Leopard....Awesome.
It's left blank because I have nothing to say to you punks!
Seems like a weird thing to say in the summary. I know I'd be much more likely to prefer a painfully slow boot process as opposed to random, painful, possibly data-loss-causing BSODs.
I installed Leopard on my PPC Mac Mini and my daughter's relatively new Intel MacBook. No issues with either one, but the time it took was approaching Win2k/XP levels. Still, it was far more painless than any Windows install, any Linux install (and I've gone from Slackware to SuSE and RedHat), and pre OS X Macintosh (System 7 anyone?).
It should be no surprise to many Mac users that each build does break/improve things that may not have been explicitly allowed in earlier builds. Unlike the non-Mac OS worlds, Apple is still the final arbiter on what does and does not make it on their OS.
I think, therefore I am - Rene Descartes; I yam what I yam, an' that's what I yam - Popeye
Perhaps this is because APE and unsanity allow you to do things you WANT to do to the OS (ie theming) that Apple will not let you. I love my Mac but my eyes are highly sensitive to white light (I can't drive without sunglasses) I would not even have been able to use Tiger if shapeshifter had not let me turn it dark. They toned the white down quite a bit with Leopard so I am OK... but soon as shapeshifter will make it dark again, you bet I will re-install it so my eyes are comfortable looking at the screen.
Apple doesn't want me to use it, they need to give me some way to do that from the OS.
That's what happens when you let horses rule. Or hippos.
"I do not fear computers. I fear lack of them." ~ Isaac Asimov
you are right... it is just drivers it won't let you install unless they have been blessed from the high priest of Vista. Oh and even if it does install due to some miracle, it will stop working after 30 minutes if not "approved" such as VMWare ethernet drivers. Just gets better though, when it says "I found a problem would you like it fix it" it tells you the ethernet card, which was working 30 seconds ago, is not supported and the driver won't work.
Douglas Adams is proved a visionary yet again
In fact, when you do a Custom Install Without Format, setup 'automagically' moves "C:\Documents and Settings" (or "C:\Users" if the old install is Vista), "C:\Program Files", and "C:\Windows" (change drive letters as needed) to C:\Windows.Old. Given, it doesn't copy everything back to the new install, but if that's what you want, do an Upgrade.
Doesn't ADC have a developer preview version of Java 6? I still write in Java 5, so my memory may be playing me false..
I'm a fan of swuh-verz, but to each their own.
655321
I feel so unclean.
Karma: Chameleon - mostly influenced by bad '80s New Wave music
Luckily I have pretty complete backups and 99.9% of my work is done on servers and saved there, gotta love version control (yes for everything, even my music directory).
I just reformatted and am performing a clean install.
The thing that is strange is I have 0 third party things installed on this laptop, I have a couple text editors (could text mate cause this?), but nothing like APE or any of the other things that have been mentioned in the thread at apple.
I'm not 100% convinced this isn't just an upgrade problem with leopard itself. I'm actually happy the upgrade failed, cause it was about time to clean this thing up... It's been a year since I got it, and that's a long time for me for an OS install to last...
Screw that. The same logic led Microsoft into the backward compatibility hell it's currently mired in. I think Apple's policy of "if you deliberately break your system then don't blame us" is inconvenient for some users in the short term but much better for all users in the long haul.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
[snip OS version check]
(which I just took from the APE source code).
That's commendable, but why is it still running anyway?
Besides, you're testing that backward. It should be
rather than hoping that it will work for all the values between "CURRENT_VERSION_NUMBER" and 1050.Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
You can download the SDKs with the freebie ADC membership (which is what I have - get paid to write on Windows, too, and I too feel unclean). You need the full ADC only to get the hardware deals and the OS updates (e.g., you get Leopard free if you have a paid ADC).
Unplug any external USB hard drives, especially if they USED to have a system and now only contain data, but you never reformatted them, and only erased files via the Trash.
Try rebooting afterwards, and you'll start up just fine. People really waited HOURS?!? Wow, what a bunch of Geniurds....
It's the same boot issue that occurs when a windows machine has USB set to boot ahead of the CD ROM or HD, and you put an empty keychain in the USB slot - it hangs.
I had this problem, as soon as I rebooted with no USB HD, things went fine. This is, of course, on an Intel Mac...
On a Core (non-2) Duo, the wireless networking driver for Boot Camp will recognize your Airport Extreme 802.11g as an 802.11n, but since it isn't, you will not have wireless connectivity.
This will show up if you have a Core (non-2) Duo and an Airport Extreme with 802.11n support, since the Airport device always broadcasts the 802.11n signal.
Ask Me About... The 80's!
1. Connect an external hard drive.
2. Download Carbon Copy Cloner (donationware) or SuperDuper (even unpaid/unregistered, it can perform basic cloning).
3. Clone the boot volume to a sufficiently large partition on the external. You can clone the boot volume while you're booted from it (which was a refreshing change from having to make boot floppies when I used Ghost with Windows), though it's a good idea to quit all other applications while the clone runs.
The only option I'm aware of to compress a cloned OS X volume would be to clone it to a compressed disk image using Disk Utility or the Apple Software Restore command line tool. It takes a fairly long time and is a two-pass process (i.e., it images, and then compresses the image), so I don't usually bother with compression. I make uncompressed read/write images, and if I need to boot from one I clone it to a real external hard drive partition.
If you want to clone frequently, cough up the $28 for SuperDuper. It has a 'smart update' feature that only copies changed files after the initial clone, so subsequent clone jobs finish much more quickly. You can also schedule jobs with the paid version.
FYI, Carbon Copy Cloner can be used to make a shell script to clone the volume. If you really want to you can make a launchd item that will run that script automatically when you connect the external drive.
I did an Upgrade to a PowerBook G4 that has had Tiger on since it came out. I upgraded to Tiger from Panther (got the laptop a month or two before Tiger). I found that Finder was wedged and had the spinning ball. I could kill it in Activity Monitor, but that didn't help. Repairing the drive didn't help. Booting in to safe mode to attempt a permissions repair similarly resulted in the spinning ball. I had performed a SuperDuper backup, so decided to go the clean install route. I only copied my user over as well as network settings. Everything is now working well and I'm doing my first Time Machine backup. The longest time was spent figuring out how to get launchd to get my Apache2 instance going for my subversion repository.
Works for me...
You can try the beta preview. Apple released it couple months ago, but decided to take it again from its official site. I use it on my Mac, and it works pretty well.
Get this, Unsanity FINALLY sent out a message to those on their email list. This is their "sage" advice:
"First and formost. *Before* you install Mac OS X 10.5, make sure you have Application Enhancer (APE) 2.0.3 or later installed. You can download it from http://www.unsanity.net/ape-203.dmg (the webpage is at http://unsanity.com/haxies/ape ).
Make *sure* you have APE 2.0.3 or later installed *before* you install Mac OS X 10.5. If you have an earlier version of APE installed before you install 10.5, you may exhibit one of the following symptoms upon booting into Mac OS X 10.5:
- Your goldfish may die.
- A strange dog might bite you on the street.
- A friend may punch you.
- Your computer may catch fire.
- Your loved one may leave you.
All of these things are really bad. So we urge everyone to make sure they have APE 2.0.3 or later installed. If you aren't sure, install APE 2.0.3 or later from the link above. APE 2.0.3 was released on March 14th, 2007. And please, always keep your software up to date.
A note about 10.5 and haxies:
As long as you have APE 2.0.3, nothing bad will happen in 10.5. Well, nothing we can control. However, none of your APE Modules will work either.
Developers in Apple's Mac OS X developer program (ADC) got the final 10.5 GM yesterday. We are still downloading the huge 6.66GB image and as soon as the downloads finish for our developers, we will be hard at work on making our software work on 10.5.
You can keep up to date with the status of haxies and 10.5 by viewing http://unsanity.com/products/compatibility/ and we will post more information as we have it on our blog at http://unsanity.org/ . Mac OS X 10.5 compatibility is currently our number one priority.
"If APE doesn't work in 10.5, shouldn't I just uninstall it?"
No, you should not. Just make sure you have APE 2.0.3 or later. A lot of third party (and Unsanity made) utilities depend on the APE framework itself being there. As it has some extremely useful functions. Removing it may cause these Applications and/or preference panes to stop launching."
They tell you specifically NOT to do the one thing that you probably should do. Worst of all, they try to be funny while doing so.
"I'm glad I'm going to die because, when I do, the world's gonna go to the dogs." -Me on aging and the next generation.
agreed. APE is a terrible idea. But its hard to believe so many were using it... and harder to believe this story made it to /.
Headline should read "users with crazy unstable systems catch snag on upgrade."
The Admin and the Engineer
Because in this case, the commonly used software is doing something that developers have been told time and time again should not be done and will not be portable over even minor updates.
"It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
LOL
Yeah, but it's Windows 95's BSOD. Back in Windows 95's day, Apple was running the horrible System 7-9. Maybe Microsoft should show Apple computers with black bombs with lit fuses to mock System 7-9, or spinning beachballs to mock OS X. Nahh, Microsoft isn't anywhere near as immature as Jobs is.
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
Huh? Windows gets taken down by third party apps all the time, and there is no screaming. It's just considered normal.
... and then they built the supercollider.
I've seen here (on /.) that a lot of mac users wanted more compatibility with MS Windows app's.....now you have it!
Be careful what you wish/ask for!
I've also noticed that a lot of blame is directed to Ape regarding Logitech's keyboards and mice....does Logitech even make a one-balled^H^H^H^H^H^Hbutton mouse?
Again, just for you mac fanboys: Ha! Ha!
(Damn, I seem to be on a troll/flamebait rampage lately...maybe I shouldn't post drunk?...nah, that can't be it!)
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
.. Apple should have known about it and put a block in the Leopard installer?
The possible conclusions I see are:
a) Apple didn't think APS would be a problem (which points to poor testing of the installer), or
b) Apple knew APS would cause problems, but shipped anyway and washed its hands of the problems, or
c) APS isn't the problem (and there are a number of cases of people saying they have install problems without APS installed) and the upgrade is screwing up for other reasons.
We only have a couple of OS X systems in our office, and I'll be delaying their upgrade for a week or two until these problems have been worked through.
--I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
...except those commands will silently fail. The spaces need to be escaped with backslashes, or the entire file path needs to be in quotes. Getting rid of the .plist may be enough to disable Application Enhancer, but it's not getting rid of the entire haxie.
/Library/Preference\ Panes/Application\ Enhancer.prefpane /Library/Frameworks/Application\ Enhancer.framework /System/Library/SystemConfiguration/Application\ Enhancer.bundle /Library/Preferences/com.unsanity.ape.plist
/L<tab>" and see what you get. If there's only one valid file/directory, the tab key will fill it in for you. It can really cut down on number of keypresses and chance for error. Type a letter or two, hit tab, type the next letter or two, hit tab, until you have your full command. Magic!
fsck -fy /
mount -uw /
rm -rf
rm -rf
rm -rf
rm
exit
Like that.
Bonus tip for shell newbies:
The default shell in Mac OS X supports tab-completion. For one of those "rm" commands, start typing "rm -rf
± 29 dB
Yeah, Unsanity is like the syphillis of the Mac world. However, being Mac-based, it's good-looking syphillis that's easy to use.
... and then they built the supercollider.
The curent version of Carbon Copy Cloner has this feature, too.
... and then they built the supercollider.
Yes, you're absolutely right. It's described in the fourth part of Gulliver's Travels.
There is one exception to that rule: the /Applications, /Library/Services, ~/Applications and ~/Library/Services folders are scanned for NeXTstep service provider applications at login. These won't be recognised anywhere else on the disk. Now this isn't the Finder's fault, and LaunchServices (which is responsible for associating files and URLs with applications) is unaffected by it, but it is something to be aware of. You won't get Services menu items from an application if it's in the wrong place.
MAcfixit.com broke the FAKE story, a FUD of "APE responsible for this". I have even risked my VT Pro, $50 year account and called the editor openly to resign.
This thing turned out to be a password hash issue related to accounts created back in 10.2 and never changed. Documented here: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306840
APE has nothing to do with it. In fact, Unsanity recommends latest APE to be on OS while upgrading to Leopard since believe or not, APE is not just couple of themes or pointers, there are many companies using that functionality and their software may break when linked library is not there.
It doesn't change the fact that APE will be ignored by Leopard btw.
Macfixit has even surpassed itself and was openly called "Depictable" http://www.macjournals.com/news/despicable.html because of their horrible FUD mongering, calling people to ERASE and INSTALL and after CNET buyout, some people think they do it on purpose to make people afraid to use OS X or Mac.
If there is apple.slashdot.org, it should have better hand picked stories, no fanboy idiotic stuff, no "maccies are idiots" stuff, just "news for Mac nerds".
This story was sitting on Digg.com for hours and even couldn't make to being popular (like slashdot accepted) because people simply didn't buy it, especially APE reason.
We rarely get new non-ipod etc. stuff on Apple.slashdot.org and I wished the second one after Leopard shipment wasn't FUD with false information.
Yeah, and I continue to think that this statement of "groupthink" as a given is overblown and always has been.
Yup. In any story remotely critical of Apple, you can count on someone to say "now if this were Microsoft, you'd all be up in arms over this..." You could find these comments even in stories like when iCon was banned from Apple stores, where a lot of highly modded posts were calling Jobs a consummate asshole.
Yeah, good point. However, the whole thing is still highly repulsive, and I wish MS didn't give software developers so many ways to screw over your system.
- Your goldfish may die.
- A strange dog might bite you on the street.
- A friend may punch you.
- Your computer may catch fire.
- Your loved one may leave you. Seems APE just disables itself on newer versions of OS X.
Well, if you want variety, go for Linux. I guess, Apple cannot support every 3rd party hackers.
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
You have to hand it to Windows users - they saw Vista and they said "No". One of the biggest complaints of casual Linux users is that most popular distros (Fedora, Ubuntu) get upgraded every six months or so. Mac fanboys of course devour everything from Cupertino. And is it just me or do Mac users take the cake with buying the most worthless "enhancement" software.
Why bother? Got new hardware? Sure, go ahead, do a clean install. But don't bother worrying about that six year old scanner or your Acrobat Read v5.0 to work. Just get a new ones.
www.itjerk.com
How long has that check been in the code, though? If it's a recent addition then there will still be plenty of people out there with an APE that doesn't check what OS it's running on.
Apple shouldn't be responsible for ensuring that third-party software continues to work with each upgrade. If it's important for the third-party dev, they can get a copy of the beta OS and do their testing/patching before it's released. What Apple *could* do, however, is check whether APE is installed and if so completely remove it during the upgrade. The users can then hunt down a new, updated version later on.
OK - I have two macs with different versions of Logitech drivers installed: Logitech Control Center 2.1.4: Sure enough - APE present in /Library/Frameworks and incriminating ape_install files inside the Logitech pref pane.
Logitech Control Center 2.0: No sign of APE.
Any idea what APE is actually doing in these - since the 2.0 version appears to work perfectly well?
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
Archive, format and install! The safest way to "upgrade".
The upshot of this is that on Mac, you get by far the best looking Swing implementation of any Java platform.
It could also well be that SUN decided they didn't want to put the effort in and Apple should be commended for sticking with Java and doing a very good job releasing their VM. (Which I suspect is mostly SUN sources, with Apple AWT/Swing)
Despite 6 not being available, I don't mind. I also get paid to write Java, which means I can't use 6 anyway as most clients aren't ready for it...
At least a year come November 1st.
The functionality makes APE work has been REMOVED on Leopard which means it will simply IGNORE APE, won't load it.
Input Managers have not been removed in Leopard. It simply asks the user if they want to run them, once. And rosyna has already said that APE is not dependent on the Input Manager mechanism. Input Managers are a red herring.
I won't argue with you about whether Apple was right to try and dissuade people from using Input Managers, because I happen to agree with you, but it's beside the point.
I won't argue with you about whether Apple is responsible for people needing to use APE, because I agree with you: I use APE to remove some of Apple's annoying bling myself. But, again, it's beside the point.
1. That one is a *Microsoft* problem, acknowledged as such by them. /.) about it?
2. Was Microsoft being unreasonably slammed "around here" (in
3. The people worried about what APE might be doing to applications obviously haven't looked at what antivirus software does.
Seriously... antivirus software modifies every application and installs drivers and does everything APE does, and much much more. It's the most dangerous software you can run on your computer, and I personally won't run it even on Windows. I understand there are some people who actually run it on OS X, and I sincerely hope they're keeping good backups.
Whenever I upgrade an OS, be it Windows, Mac OS, Linux or anything else, I will always clone the boot partition, reinstall from scratch and then import the data afterwards. True, my G3 iMac isn't compatible with Leopard, so I don't know how difficult it is to upgrade, but it's a general rule that I follow - back up the boot partition and use the Migration Assistant to bring across the data. Simple as.
And before anyone starts complaining about DRM stopping them copying anything across - deauthorise the old partition in iTunes, and get rid of the M$ junk on the disk - it's unjustified, especially with the fabulousness of iWork 08 and OxygenOffice.
Those using pirated Tinysoft signatures(TM) are a real threat to society and should all be thrown in jail.
Per Unsanity's web page, the current version checks. Previous versions don't. They say "Please accept our sincere apologies for all the trouble that was caused. We have underestimated the number of people running "outdated" versions of our software."
http://www.unsanity.org/archives/haxies/leopard.php
Personally, I think APE and the Unsanity haxies are %$^%$ and I stay as far away from them as I can!
This sig has exceed its monthly bandwidth allotment.
"Wait a minute... that scruffy beard... those suspenders... that smug expression... you're one of those condescending UNIX computer users, aren't you!" :)
"Slow down, Cowboy! It has been 3 years, 7 months and 26 days since you last successfully posted a comment."
Immature? I think you meant "funny". Come on, lighten up a bit. It's funny. A sad-mac or bomb icon wouldn't be funny because there would be little truth in the joke. Things are more funny when they are based in truth. I got more BSOD's in my 1 year of Win95'ing than I've had sad-macs/bombs/beachballs in 20+ years of Mac using. Since everyone is dismissing this as a 1995 blue screen (even though that is iconic of all things wrong with Windows) I guess the Mac equivalent would be to post a picture of the hockey puck mouse. At least that really did suck, unlike the unfair beating Mac OS 6-9 is getting on here (hell, it may have sucked, but it sucked less than Windows).
Again reiterating the need for them to check that the OS version is known to be supported, not explicitly known to be unsupported. The former is a finite set; the latter is potentially infinite.
Or even better, don't write binary patches and expect them not to make the system implode.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
It could also well be that SUN decided they didn't want to put the effort in and Apple should be commended for sticking with Java and doing a very good job releasing their VM. (Which I suspect is mostly SUN sources, with Apple AWT/Swing)
Despite 6 not being available, I don't mind. I also get paid to write Java, which means I can't use 6 anyway as most clients aren't ready for it...
Yep, and they've got that com.apple.* hierarchy that controls display of menus in the menu bar instead of in the application window, and so forth. You're right: those are up-sides to having Apple control releases on Mac OS. I just wish they would apply a little more effort in keeping their Java client current.
And you're also right in that not much out there requires Java 6 at this point anyway. I'm not doing anything that requires it, and the jump from 5 to 6 wasn't nearly the jump from 4 to 5. Sub-pixel rendering in Swing doesn't make near the difference for me that Generics support in Java 5 did.
Karma: Chameleon - mostly influenced by bad '80s New Wave music
Thanks for the info: I hadn't realized that the preview was available in the freebie ADC membership. I'll have to go check that out!
Karma: Chameleon - mostly influenced by bad '80s New Wave music
Don't get me wrong, I was using open-source variants of BSD before OS X was even out and I loved them, but honestly Mac OS X has become my platform of choice. Although it's just as powerful as any other UNIX based operating system, I don't have to constantly be tweaking things. Sometimes the need for too much customization can be counterproductive especially on a pure desktop OS. Mac OS X allows for a damn good amount of customization (yep, I said it), but it doesn't force a user to read up on man page, and tweak trivial things just to get something simple to work. Most other UNIX-like operating systems just can't cut it when it comes to needing stuff to "just work".
I can still compile the latest and greatest open source applications and run them with ease on OS X, while at the same time I can actually run things like Adobe Photoshop and Dreamweaver or Microsoft Office (Yeah, I like REAL compatibility) easily and in a proper environment.
So, political ideologies about software licenses aside, the bottom line is that there are plenty of legitimate reasons to like OS X as a UNIX lover. Hell, even Bill Joy uses it as a primary desktop OS.
If what you were saying should have any traction, there'd have to be prior examples - like them bricking customized iPhones, or something as assinine.
Apart from that, one of my acquaintances is also overly photosensitive, and he just used the colour calibrator in Sys Prefs to get a more usable experience. HTH.
Pick another color!
If I am correct, the current OS X application packaging spec was supposed to a allow a simple drag and drop. The application packages can be opened to reveal the structure.
It is unfortunate that the detail you describe is even necessary, as most of this stuff should reside with the application. But, software companies are likely not pleased about such simplicity.
Which trolls? Is your complaint about anti-Windows posts being modded up, or about anti-Apple posts being modded down? Because, in my experience, a valid criticism of Apple will get modded up, same as a valid criticism of Microsoft. The only difference is that there are many more valid criticisms of Microsoft.
It's not a very valid criticism of Apple because (assuming this is a problem with APE):
Unless the said software is a port from some GPL Linux code.
In which case, all you have to do is move the data (software rowk from that point onward), and move 2 ".CFG" files, one in the software's directory, and on from user's directory (now you also have your data saved).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
I'd so mod you up if i had mod points.
The only good thing that has come out of the intel switch is the employee stock purchase plan.
I've upgraded one of my machines which has ape installed and had zero problems.
First off, because the api no longer exists, input managers simply do not work. They don't cause problems because there's nothing they can touch to damage.
I had several input manager dependent addons and they simply sit idle, not interfere with the operation of the os.
Additionally, ape loads on logon, not on boot, meaning it would hang at login rather than before the "starting macos X" screen.
Finally, ape is hard coded to disable itself when it detects major version changes. It did so with 10.3 and 10.4.
Ape is innocent.
I will say tiger is, for a version of macos X, exceedingly picky about system configuration, and has numerous undocumented requirements, such as partition subtypes, which are giving me hell on my second machine.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
Repair disk permissions before any install. And I mean any. Use disk utilities (HD->Applications->Utilities->) if you are installing an os update, or any update for that matter. Make sure that for any install of any software that you do this as well. As a saftey precaution. If you are running software update, and there are any updates to be installed. Repair disk permissions first. The last 2 os updates 10.4.8 and 10.4.9 that I did I had this problem. the first one required a full wipe and reinstall to fix. Luckly the second time I was able to repair the permissions with the OS CD and bring things back up.
Also FYI: Adobe Version Cue CS2 was part of the problem the first time. I had to shut it off. Now all is well. A learning experience.
Self proclaimed wannabe geek. You know how it is. Most of us who read this stuff probably fit in that category.
You'd be shocked how many applications do process code injection in Windows, too...
So many that Microsoft had no option but to continue to allow it.
Mulder: Windows 98 was retired last year, now Leopard is blue screening. Notice a coincidence, Scully?
In all the fighting, has anyone noticed the beauty of Leopard not putting .DS_Store files in every samba share directory it comes across? I still see one in the root, but that's so much better than every directory!
I feel Apple is quite right to close the security hole this represents.
The functionality that Apple restricted in Leopard is not anything that APE uses, nor is it anything that is required for APE to run... if it was, there wouldn't be a "blue screen" problem: APE simply wouldn't have loaded.
Input Managers are a completely separate issue from APE.
Input Managers are not a "security hole". The security hole is Apple's desire to allow people to install software directly from Safari, from Safari treating installers and plugins as "safe files" to the whole "Internet Enabled" disk image scheme. Adding more warning dialogs and trying to scare people away from using Input Managers isn't going to solve the problem. Keeping a strong distinction between private resources and public ones is the only way to keep the system secure.
Unsanity sent this on Saturday:
... As long as you have APE 2.0.3, nothing bad will happen in 10.5. Well, nothing we can control. However, none of your APE Modules will work either.
...
Before you install Mac OS X 10.5, make sure you have Application Enhancer (APE) 2.0.3 or later installed.
Developers in Apple's Mac OS X developer program (ADC) got the final 10.5 GM yesterday. We are still downloading the huge 6.66GB image and as soon as the downloads finish for our developers, we will be hard at work on making our software work on 10.5.
For me it was indeed the Unsanity APE module.
At first I didn't recall installing it but it came bundled with an application
I bought called Audio Hijack Pro that uses APE as part of its functional matrix.
After booting in single user Unix mode and removing the bits it was fine.
I have no stake in this whatsoever but just wanted to share what I've stumbled across from Unsanity (Posted by slava at October 27, 2007 11:45 PM): Leopard!.
As always, YMMV.
Though it's funny to imply that Windows ME gets blue screens of death it's really just a case of some third -party software not being compatible with the new operating system.
Does that still sound convincing to you? Why does it crash the ^"$%ing OS?
The window server, or more accurately, the dynamic linker running as part of the window server process launch, doesn't care to have it's threads suspended and resumed to find new code injected into the server.
/var/log/system.log for mention of something called 'aped'. That's the culprit.
That's naughty.
Look near the error in
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306857
What exactly do you expect from a company called Unsanity and a product named after a close relative of the monkey?