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When Are Kids Old Enough to Play Videogames?
A piece at the MTV Multiplayer blog is exploring the issue of kids and gaming, wondering aloud how old is 'old enough'. A recent CES talk indicated that you should wait until at least seven to introduce your children to Mario, and we've talked in the past about the educational role games can have. MTV's Tracey John spoke to a pair of mothers who offered their own opinions on this topic: "When I asked Alisa why she thought that games weren't imaginative and explained that many games have challenging, puzzle-solving elements, she conceded a little but remained skeptical. 'Honestly, I haven't really explored video games thoroughly, and I'm sure there are video games that fit more the bill of something that I'd be interested in, but I'm kind of hard-pressed to find a game that's like reading a book or something like that. I understand the kids like it, so I allow them to do it; it's monitored but it's not my favorite thing for them to be doing.'" What's the right age for a kid to start playing games? Do you see games as more or less acceptable than traditional kid pastimes like TV or reading? Does it matter if the parents are gaming-savvy?
If you are not sure about whether or not there are games equal to books yet, then you're an idiot and should stay out of the argument. Leave it to people who have played the games, and know what they're talking about.
She has obviously not played Portal.
"we've got trenchcoats and bad attitudes" - John Constantine, HellBlazer
the parent(s) decide they are old enough. IMHO
Take some responsibility for your kids, parents, it doesn't hurt as bad as you might think.
Seriously, not all kids are the same. Okay, if you want a relative benchmark: when they're old enough to enjoy it. There. They're still young enough that you can control what games they play and for how long.
I swear, what's with the slashdot obsession over video games?
Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
I was at a computer show&sale once and one of the people running one of the booths had his kids (I assume) sitting on the table behind him playing some car racing game. They couldn't have been older than two and three.
Technoli
Think about it.
...they know not to wiped out my saved game. Little bastards...
If you'd just do what we tell you and quit yer gripin' everything would be chocolate sprinkles and rainbows! -AC
Age 3 seems old enough to me. But if a kid has hand-eye coordination skills better than the average 3 year old , let them play younger. If they develop more slowly then wait til 4 or something. But really this is a nonissue.
No reason to force your kindergartner to play Grand Theft Auto, but if they want to play Mario or Pong or Tetris, it'll probably do more for their brain and development than passively watching VeggieTales.
Since when has MTV or anyone affiliated with it had an opinion that matters?
I installed Edunbuntu on a old laptop and my 4yr old loves the Childs Play games.
I have a one of the $20 multi game things. Mr PacMan, Pole Pos, Xevious, Mappy, Galaga.
My kids like to watch me and my wife play.
My two year old thinks he is the ghosts when he plays Ms. Pacman, and he also seems to like Xevious.
I should note my kids don't know how to work the VCR, DVD, or TV remote and are have a very limited TV schedule and game time is even less then that.
So I guess, when they are able to physically play let them play. It is now part of our culture.
I expect to get a wii sometime this year just need to save my pennies.
Playing a video game, where they're actually interacting, thinking, solving puzzles, whatever, is far better than just sitting there passively staring at the screen. And if you get them a Wii, there's even an element of exercise to it.
Remember the days when Republicans were the party of fiscal responsibility?
You have to approach this through terms they know, in that any form of media you expose kids to, you have to ask someone why one is OK and another isn't? If it's pure ignorance, they have no case. If they start citing things like violence, imagery, etc, you confront them with the ratings system, and inquire about how they choose movies, TV, etc, and why they'd allow a higher rating on the games than the other media, and then start complaining about the games.
Just as I wouldn't expose a child to the "Saw" series I probably wouldn't give them GTA or some of the more gory games either. So why is there such an uproar about the latter, but not the former? It's just plain ignorance.
Right out of the hospital, I'd say. It's a matter of finding the right controller. A tit shaped force feedback controller perhaps?
Before the flamewars begin, let's all agree that sane kids will not kill somebody in real life just because they can do it in a video game.
At least with video games you are interacting, often problem solving. There are MANY video games that I would consider stimulating and educational (not in the academic sense). Is reading more beneficial? Maybe. But to suggest introducing your kids to video games after they hit 7 seems overly traditional/conservative/ignorant. Not all games have obvious stimulating interaction like Dance Dance Revolution, Wii Sports, or Rock Band, but they certainly require more brain power than the vast majority of stuff of TV 6 year olds watch for hours with glazed over eyes.
I began playing video games further back then i remember, but i do know one thing, i learned a considerable amount from them. For example, i have developed my reflexes and learned to drive in video games. Now in actually driving i have used those skills more times than can be counted, but i do know that because of it i have yet to smash up the car. People say video games are violent, however i believe that it is a place where you can take your violence out with no consequence rather then in the real world. I have learned problem solving skills in some cases (although normally limited) but in newer games this is becoming more prevalent. (Portal for example). I believe video games do a lot of good for the kiddies.
I was 3 when I first played a video game. It was PacMan on an Atari. Never really cared for it, though. Then I got a Nintendo for Christmas of 1990. I was 5.
Seven is a good age, and five is okay as well. But I'd be paying close attention to the games my child plays, and the games he/she plays at their little friends' house. If I find them playing Grand Theft Auto at the next-door neighbor's house at the age of 10, I'm going to have a stern talk with the parent. They can't use the excuse "video games are harmless" because I'd just show them my International Game Developers' Association card - they knew I knew better than them. w0rd. Then I'd show them the master's degree I earned in media studies.
Final Fantasy, anyone?
I have 2 kids, 2.5 and 1.5 they both have always had video games around I mean they probably heard Zelda In utero. They both know how to move a guy on the screen with a d-pad, they both know how to push buttons, how to get a game to boot up on a gameboy (insert game switch power on).
There was no "start" I played games with the kids in my lap from the first day they were born. It is part of their life, part of their culture, part of their education.
It is like asking how old they should be before they are allowed to listen to a conversation...
My child is 4 and he can turn on the tv, select video inputs, turn on the xbox/xbox 360, and play Halo 1, 2, and 3. He can play just about any shooter game, driving game.. some GTA (doesn't do missions, just drives around- jumps ramps, follows the law when driving, etc). I suppose he's my little science experiment. I'll post in about 15 years to see whether or not it was bad for him.
When they're old enough to hold a controller you can start them out with Pacman. When they're a little older, move on to Mario. When they're 10 or so, introduce them to Doom. When they're 13 or 14, they can probably handle some GTA. It's like the history of the video game industry in microcosm. Ontogeny recapitulates gameogeny?
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
First, I started programming before I was seven. BASIC for the TRS-80 Model I, and it only warped my slightly.
Second, My kids started Flash based games at 2 and 3-years old. For my older, I think it is good to teach him decision making, and giving him a desire to read (so he doesn't have to ask daddy which button to push each time he starts a new game).
I will not allow them to play a game with violence to people (or animals).... I steer away from them myself (usually ). A five year old playing Mortal Kombat is not cool.
So, basically, it comes down to the kid and the type of game.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
"Every book is a childrens book if the kid can read."
Whether a child is "Ready" for such things isnt something that can really be generalized. It really depends on each individual child, their ability to see the difference between reality and escapism, and their desire to make use of this kind of media.
Ice Cream has no bones.
As soon as the umbilical cord is cut.
Every time you call tech support, a little kitten dies.
When I was growing up, for educational games we had Number Munchers, Oregon Trail, Otter Lake, etc. While educational, we never really thought of them as being so because of how they were designed; they were just plain fun, while still being highly educational. Most games I see for kids nowadays seem to be more about entertainment than education.
For me personally, I would want my kid to play things like an Atari 2600, old NES games, old arcade games like Galaga, etc. The purpose behind this is to improve their hand/eye coordination and reaction time, two things that would benefit them in every day life. While every child is different, if pressed to pick an average I would say sometime between the ages of 4-6, depending on the intelligence level and how quickly they developed.
Living With a Nerd
It's just like everything else out there, use in moderation. Don't let your kid play Star Wars Lego all day long, every day, whether they're 3 or 10 (or 20 for that matter). Also, don't let them eat bananas all day long, either. And tooth brushing, they shouldn't do that all day, every day.
People are pretty sturdy. If you parent, as a verb, and observe your kids, you'll figure out what's okay, and what's causing them to freak out. Avoid the latter.
My kids liked "playing" tuxpaint with me from the moment they could
recognize the animal stamps. http://www.tuxpaint.org/screenshots/
At 2 years, the "elmo keyboard game" was the funnest for them.
http://www.sesameworkshop.org/sesamestreet/games/flash.php?contentId=9495524
Ok, they're 5.5 and 3.5. Both boys. They currently play Starwars battlefront II, and starwars lego's on the PS2. The younger one has a harder time, so he's not as interested, but he loves to visit noggin, Sesame street, starfall, Nick, which all are educational. The older one LOVES to play transformers on the PC, and used to love need for speed underground, but when he got old enough where I thought he'd notice the questionable language and skin colored graphics, that game suddenly dissapeared. They have a number of other educational games on the PC. I made the mistake of getting the PS2 this christmas before learning there are nearly 0 educational games for it.
Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
Personally I think it's up to the parents to decide when they want their kids playing video games. Me I've been around video games all my life. When I was a baby my dad used to turn Baseball for the NES on and just let it play the demo or he'd play SMB and I'd fall asleep. When I was three I started playing their old NES, of course then I wasn't good, but then I got a console of my own, a SNES, when I turned 4. So really I've turned out to be a good person, but I think it depends on the parents and how the kid(s) reacts to video games.
I'm 19, so I'm relatively young, the first game I played was Duck Hunt, at a friends house, when I was about 4. My parents didn't care if I occasionally played SNES or Genesis at my friends houses, but they were apprehensive for me to have my own system. My parents decided to see if I would go bonkers playing games and ignoring everything else if I had a system, so we borrowed my uncle's Genesis, put it in my bedroom with an old tv, that wasn't hooked up to cable or anything. I played a few hours a week, so that Christmas I had a brand new N64('96, I was 8, almost 9) with Shadows of the Empire. I'd consider myself a gamer now, I still play less than 10 hours a week on average, its a healthy diversion, and it sure beats TV.
I think that as long as kids consider that games are a fun thing to do, but don't let it consume them, theres nothing wrong with having them play. I had Shadows at 8, which these days would probably be rated M, but I knew it was fake, and I was just controlling a guy kinda like Han. As long as someone is mature enough to be able to play games without letting it become the only thing they want to do it is just fine.
Or tag? Or t-ball? Why should video games be held to such a standard? I guess she figures if her kid is going to be a nerd, the kid should at least be the smart kind of nerd... Perhaps a bad rep on the part of video gamers rather than the games themselves?
When we were snowed in last week my daughter and I played some Wii tennis. She's 3.5 years old, bowling was a bit much for her and she lacked the eye-hand coordination for the baseball game. She also likes to hop around on Dance Dance Revolution mats, but is pretty far from being able to line up steps with the screen.
I know I was a Pac-man player around age 5-6, but with the Wii being so engaging I can see kids taking off using it sooner. Plus in areas with terrible weather it is a nice way to keep kids moving when outdoor play is not available.
She wasn't comparing playing games to watching TV but to reading books.
While there is problem solving and such playing games I find that I'm usually thinking more abstract concepts and higher order thoughts when reading interesting books so I can see her point.
To me, the key is moderation, especially with playing video games.
My daughter is already facinated by games, and she's 3. She loves watching daddy play WoW, and most Wii games. She doesn't have the cooridnation yet, but she still loves to play games.
I think any time a child shows interest in any activity, as long as it's monitored and moderated, they should be allowed to do it. And as far as how it compares to the TV; games are more like books that a child can play. I personally think they rank right up there with books as far as importance in this day and age ( note that this means if my daughter plays games for an hour, we read for an hour too ).
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"When there's doubt, there is no doubt."
If you aren't sure if your kids are old enough, don't let them play games. Parents are supposed to make the major choices for their kids, last time I checked. Why is this even a question?
I was 3 when I first started playing, it was Rad Racer, World Class Track Meet and Mario. Then it was jeopardy and wheel of fortune. Reader Rabbit, Mario Teaches Typing...
My 5 year old showed really no interest in computers until he was 4 years old. He plays age appropriate games, eg the stuff Fisher Price put out but also loves Guitar Hero. I don't see any problem with video games, they are improving his hand-eye coordination and rational thinking.
My 2 year old, on the other hand is already into computers but still at the randomly hitting keys to see what happens stage. So, we have an older machine that I don't mind him beating up on and some simple video games to nuture his interest. I think this is the one that'll follow me into the IT field.
We also spend plenty of time teaching our children traditional games as well. Seems to me almost every toy you get now requires AA batteries (not included) so I've made a point of buying manual toys for them to play with. Lego is a big hit! It's important to have a balance between the old and new.
Yes, some toddlers/pre-k kids will pick up a mouse/joystick/wiimote and thrash it around because they can't quite understand what they are doing nor have the patience to figure it out. But some like mine, are able to. My kid at age 3 could play "mario" type games except the object could be to pick things up in a certain order. She can play the Wii darts game. There are games that uses a pointer so that promotes hand dexterity and writing skills. There is a whole host of educational games I believe to be very good IF the kid is able to sit down and play it. If they can't, don't let them play it as the article states. They are probably not ready and could harm them is some way.
partitioned my c: drive and installed Kubuntu whilst I was outside cleaning the car. She was playing Portal when I left her - I swear it was under twenty minutes and I was watching her through the window the hole time!
"He Who Dares Wins"
. . . as soon as Duke Nukem Forever is released!
Writers of the 17th-19th century would give an arm and a leg to be able to use a medium like digitized media, cds, games audiovisuals and whatnot. and here we are, in goddamn 21st century, with people who are doing over-late book elitism.
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When are people "too old" to play video games? :-D
I am guessing the resounding Slashdot answer will be NEVER!
"Know but never fear the consequences of your actions."
A skills-based game, like Super Mario Bros. as a classic example, teaches the meaning of success and failure (something schools increasingly don't do). If you are good enough, you will win; otherwise, you fail. But everyone fails at first, over and over again; these games teach that if you want to be good at something, you have to suffer through being bad at it for a while, but you will eventually improve.
Games like the traditional JRPG or most MMORPGs probably shouldn't be played by children, as they teach that the way to succeed is not to improve your own skills, but to put in a lot of time leveling up. This perspective will be useless in the real world unless they get one of the few seniority-based union jobs.
This sort of philosophical distinction is seldom appreciated in discussions of children and video games, being drowned out by a debate centered on violence, but I think that in a long-term sense it's a much more important consideration.
I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
I played Doom almost daily on a 486 when I was six, and I'm not "scarred for life" as the politically-correct world would like to think. There was never a need to call DSS on my parents, and I don't see visions of demons lurking in the shadows.
Keep it in perspective: if you buy into this new concept that violence in video games cause children to commit violent acts, your kids, being raised in the same environment, probably will as well.
get a job and buy there own damn PC. GTFO n00blets!
It all depends on how much cognitive development you want to provide for your child.
I contend that video games don't harm cognitive development, but they (for the most part) don't help it either. Books, on the other hand, do. It's not so much on what's the appropriate time, but rather how much time is appropriate. I started playing video games at the age of seven, but my hours were heavily regulated by my mom, who (like the librarian she was) made sure that I was reading my quota of books for the week and getting my schoolwork done. On the other hand, if you're letting a seven-year-old frag away for five hours a day, then I'd really start getting concerned.
For those who disagree with my statement that video games do not help cognitive development, they don't. Cognitive science research indicates that students develop with "experience," experience being anything that a child experiences, from eating a meal to smelling something yucky to hitting a baseball to getting hit by a snowball to climbing a kitchen cabinet to get to the cookie jar that mom set down on top. Then, as a child learns words, they match words to experiences. If a child limits what they do every day to watching TV and playing video games, they don't get much opportunity to learn by doing. And for a child, tactile learning and feedback plays a crucial role in cognitive development.
First off, I'm a 35 year old hard core gamer in ever sence of the word. This concept is very important to me not only because of my love of gaming but also because my wife and I have decided to have kids. I have thought about this point myself many many times in refference to other kids and now that I have the unique focus of applying it to mine I can honestly tell you that I am leaning toward later in life than I had originally thought. Although video games are a big part of my life and one of my main hobbies I also race motocross and roadracing. Have been an accomplished windsurfing competitor. Have engaged in yacht racing. I have a passion for the outdoors and travel as well as a fascination with making my own coffe (all the way from plantation through importation to cupping). In saying all these things i'm not filling out a dating profile but rather trying to make the point that my interests and passions run the gambit. Personally I think that had I been exposed to video games earlier in my life I would not have been involved in all the experiences that created such varied and forming interests througt my early life. I would not have been into riding bikes, climbing trees, exploring caves, creating imaginative games of my own and with my friends, reading, etc, if I had been alowed to lock myself in my room playing video games or waching television for that matter (we were only allowed to wach with my parents in their room). Therefore, I can offer the fact that I, I dyed in the wool uber gamer geek, will be limmiting my kid's television viewing and video game playing during his youth. I will not howerver base it on how many times he has gone around the sun but will rather apply observation and allow him access based on his involvement with other interests.
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One of my earliest memories is of playing many, many classic Atari games - Space Invaders, Defender, Centipede, etc. - on my parents' bed at the age of 2. I can't see any way that it hurt me. My brother and I often used the on-screen action to make up elaborate stories, especially when there seemed to be little "plot." Some of my fondest memories from elementary school surround playing MECC games on the crappy Apple's we had. And it was college before I learned anything new about chemistry after a computer game my uncle gave me when I was 9 or so. I'd say that it depends on the parents exercising their judgment about what is right for the child. Not that parents commonly do this anymore, unfortunately.
I hear this argument all the time and it drives me crazy. This assumes that videogame time will always replace reading time. What if your kid is playing videogames instead of, say, watching "edutainment?" I'm a 25-year-old with an 11-year-old brother. When I was 20 and he was much younger, I let him watch/play video games with me (I DID excercise discretion when determining WHICH games he could watch/play). As a result, he now chooses to play videogames over television most of the time. This is seperate from the time he spends reading. Depending on your opinion, a child can get a LOT more benefit out of playing Rock Band than he can watching Pokemon.
My 5 year old has enjoyed playing video games with her dad for the last year or so. She loves throwing curve balls and change ups at me in wii baseball, and is wicked at wii tennis (bowling bores her, as does golf) About 3 months ago, we were playing a kart racing sim (she steers, I work the gas), when I had to get up for something. I was ASTONISHED to come back and see her playing on her own, after having relocated the pedals to where she could hit them with her one foot, while standing up, and steering with the table mounted steering wheel! Not only that, but she actually managed to stay on the track without bouncing from wall to wall. I watched her quietly for about 3 minutes before I asked in my booming daddy voice 'What are you doing!' The look on her face was worth the wait... She cant pass the CPU yet, but she does enjoy just driving in practice mode by herself.
I have two children. One played mostly educational games such as the Jumpstart and Reader Rabbit series from an early age, even pre-kindergarten. The other showed no interest in games and preferred to play with traditional toys. The one that played games is in the top 10% of their age group for reading and reading comprehension, where the one that did not play games is an average reader. Both grew up in the same environment with lots of children's books to read and have had bedtime stories read to them since birth. They even had the same school teachers, yet one surpasses the other. I am pretty sure the educational software had a large part in assisting a beginning reader and giving them a solid foundation to build on.
I'm not sure if it's awesome or awesomely disturbing that you've just cribbed parenting advice from the movie 'Ronin.' Bold move, in any case. I can't wait to tell my kids that they talk a good game in the living room, but they're weak when they put their spikes on.
My son started playing Pokemon when he was 3. By the time he was 5 he could read all of it and follow the story without my help.
Of course, this happened because when he played it, I played it with him, and I asked him to read words where he could.
Games are what kids love. And they are great tools if you can get games that require thought or reading like Pokemon.
Now he is older and I'm teaching him to make his own video games with Blender. Fun for me too!
My daughter has preferred to watch me play games (and kibbitz) over actually playing on her own. She's taking the reins more and more, though, and I'm not trying to dictate what is better... when it comes to learning, I feel that what she finds fun is better for her.
When my kid was 5, I started letting her watch AND try navigating in 3D games like Ty the Tiger. She understood what she was watching but wasn't able to navigate with confidence. "Can you get me to the bridge again?"
When she was 7, she liked the first island of Zelda: Windwaker and could free-play that for half an hour and have fun. For the longest time she had absolutely no ambition to try the first "scary" area herself, even the really cartoony goofy villains you have there.
She's 8 now, and can navigate Mario Galaxy with confidence, is trying Lego Star Wars games alone, and even finds some shortcuts or features I had missed. I'm impressed with the navigation controls (and usually the camera features) on modern 3D games, they just get better and better.
I know there are kids a LOT younger than her who are playing much more intricately visual and spatial games. Great. She was also reading the text of Final Fantasy II (US) when she was 4, so I have no worry that she's exactly where she should be in her own development curve. Every kid is different.
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They can play video games when they pry the controller from my cold, dead hands...
Obviously, a good parent will take care not to let very young kids become immersed in video games - especially violent ones. Kids are extremely impressionable at this age. Letting them play games can be fine, and it's also a good exercise in teaching them restraint and keeping their lives balanced. They started with Flash Noggin games at a young age, and the 5yo plays his portable Leapster. I don't think he's even aware that the games are educational. Diego and Dora counting games are good too. We screen each game and monitor their time on them. No shooting games are allowed. We recently let them play Pac Man and help with some non-violent adventure games. I enjoy games and I see no reason they shouldn't enjoy them too. It just takes some common sense.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
If you refer to modern games, there are games that I don't think I'm old enough for :)
That being said, there are tons of "educational" and brain stimulating games out there. Reading Rabbit, Brain Age, that stupid talking fish, that are great games for kids. The problem with the modern gaming era is that there aren't really any games that break from the first person shooter or RTS to be suitable for kids. Its not like when we were kids and there were games like Kings Quest (even the VGA remake) that were like interactive story books. Not that these games went away, and maybe I am a little removed from the current crop of kids games, but these were games that influenced me as a child, along with the 2d side scrollers of the NES. Although the interactive nature of the games on the Wii provide a great opportunity to improve not only puzzle solving elements, but hand eye coordination.
Of course, this wouldn't even be an issue if parents took time out of their "busy" schedule to maybe spend some time with their kids, get to know them a little, and guage for themselves which games their kids can handle both on a content level and a difficulty level. Who knows, maybe parents might even actually start playing them with the kids and spend some quality time with them.
A friend of mine coaches kids for weight loss in the "Shape Down" program. Among the things that are no-nos are TV and video games: including educational games. It's encouraged to get outside and get some physical activity.
I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
I do NOT watch television, and despise broadcast television. It is difficult for me at times when I have to explain to people things like: No, I've not seen that beer commercial, and no, I don't know what a soup nazi is, who is Kramer?
You can hide your kids from games all you want, but if all their friends are playing them, you are effectively isolating them from the social circles they should be able to take part in.
I have to try to learn stuff about television happenings over the weekend so I don't look too stupid on Monday in the break room. If you kid has to pretend he knows what everyone is talking about, it's an ostracizing effect.
Technically, when they are old enough that you trust them to stay over at a friends house, they are old enough for games unless you are going to ensure that your kid's friend's parents are going to prohibit game playing while your kid stays with them.
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I know I shouldn't expect much from people at this site, since none of you probably have any actual children, but parent is extremely overrated.
Doling out glib recommendations to recklessly experiment with one's children is irresponsible and unwise. There have been 10+ years of scientific studies about influences of video games. Asking a parent in this day and age to "wing it" with regard to their child's developmental psychology is actually quite offensive and contrary to the purpose of this article.
If a thinly-veiled insult to the questioner's parenting skills and a bromide is the best advice you had to give on this topic, I don't see why you responded at all.
I have two kids. A 16 year old girl and a 13 year old boy. The girl was never that interested in games although she had a phase where spent a lot of time online in sites like Orisinal. She spends her time getting A pluses in school, playing in the school jazz band, singing in the choir, performing in the musical production, hanging with a small group of good friends, learning to drive standard and generally having a good life. She starts next term of Grade XI with math, physics and chemistry (I'm envious!) and is talking about med school (she has a young female family doctor who is quite inspiring I think).
The 13 year old boy also does well in school but only because the standards are sooo low in middle school. He's much more interested in spending all of his time online or on the Wii though that's mostly lost its initial excitement (we've had it for almost one year). He started playing computer games at about five years old with simple things (Commander Keen rules!). We bought a game cube when he was nine or ten and you know about the Wii. Until recently he always had limits on TV and game time. He plays in a soccer league as well and just started an early morning paper route. His latest thing is painting Warhammer models (now that's a business isn't it?) though he's not interested in playing (the nerds he sees at the store are a little to closed to the world even for him). Anyway we didn't (don't) allow twitch and splat, first person shooter games (Does Metroid count? It's pretty recent in our house). I think he's getting along reasonably well considering.
So those are my credentials. When kids are little (less than four or five) you should avoid TV and video games -- they are too addictive and they need human interaction and reality to set some objective standards for their universe. After that everything in moderation. Limits are good as setting them makes you a parent. You thought it was actually reproducing that made a parent didn't you? When they are old enough they'll do the right things on their own (cross your fingers).
...and I seem to have made it OK in life.
For the longest time we only had Combat, Maze Craze and Space Invaders.
Combat was great, Maze Craze was my favorite (my dad hated it though) and I later found out that "Santa" had been up playing Space Invaders every night for several weeks before Christmas. ;)
From there on I got games at a pretty slow trickle, which gave me the chance to really play the hell out of each game before moving onto another, which was actually really good. I'm sure my reading and troubleshooting skills went up because nobody told me how to play these things, I just got the manual and the game and dove into them.
Of course these weren't the most complex games in the world, but many of them weren't just arcade-twitchers, like Haunted House of which I have a great memory of my mom correcting my pronunciation of the word "urn" (the game has you retrieving three pieces of a "Magic Urn" and escaping) where not knowing any better I had been sounding it out more like "urine". :D
I still love to play video games, and fully intend to introduce my kids (if/when I have them) the same way, and see how they do. There are still many playable 2600 games (and even new ones!) if the graphics and sound don't put you off. (The first thing I hooked up to my new 36" Wega flatscreen when I got it was the 2600...)
"There are people who do not love their fellow human being, and I _hate_ people like that!" - Tom Lehrer
Here here.
:D
Playing video games, while holding a tiny baby in the lap -- same here.
She first started playing Starcraft when she was 4, I am proud to say, and yet she was playing Wind Waker before that.
Amber & I both remember with great fondness when we first found her, running around in Wind Waker, fully competent, attacking goblins with a sword. Just the day before, she was bonking into walls. 24 hours later, she's running around gleefully, cheering, hacking up monsters. We are so proud!
Presently, she's six, and we're playing Okami tag-team. Soon, she will be 7, which means Shichi-go-san... We take our video games and literature very seriously.
What about LEGOS!? Seriously, they have a track record of several decades of non-damaging, brain-challenging, mind-engaging entertainment, and have been responsible for the last ~75 years of engineers. On that note, you might want to keep your kids away from them, or else the /. boards will be flooded in 15 years. Who knows what logical thinking and problem solving will do to today's society?
They're an entertaining diversion that, while not inherently destructive, can be damaging when eaten to excess or in place of other foods. I'm giving games the benefit of the doubt and assuming we're talking about age-appropriate titles and not GTA. Some games have puzzles, but it's nothing compared to, say, playing a strategy board game, doing a crossword puzzle, playing chess, etc. And games do little to enhance verbal ability, unlike reading. If you want to develop fine motor skills, why not take up billiards, foosball, table tennis, golf, etc.
Just like eating one serving of fries isn't going to kill you, neither will playing a moderate amount of games rot a kid's brain. But if he eats fries five times a day and consequently skips the vegetables and fruit...there will be consequences. Also, just like fries (and other unhealthy foods) games can be quite addictive.
Hate to disagree with the mass opinion on this one, but I know too many kids^H^H^H^Hpeople (adults too) who are in my oh so humble opinion chronically obsessed with playing video games.
I visit them and rather than playing host, they keep playing their game and tell me there is beer in the fridge.
Their children talk (when they talk, which is rare) about nothing but video games.
I really don't see much positive aspects to the games. OK, maybe it has some benefit for hand-eye coordination (at least insofar as it's the fingertips coordinating with what happens on a monitor). But there are far more important things to develop in a young mind than hand-eye coordination. Things like social skills, and physical fitness.
I don't care how much you enjoy technology and science. It doesn't mean you have to spend your entire life couped up in a little room with a machine.
I would seriously rather my kids watch porn than play video games. At least with porn there's something to learn about anatomy.
Parents holding their kids back from videogames probably have all the best intentions in mind - as they should, since kids are in no position to do so by themselves. The constant rabble about Japanese teenagers dying at the local internet café after playing WOW 36 hours straight, or kids steeling cars after playing GTA is all the reason most parents need to be sceptic about computergames.
The lack of games actually targeted towards 2-7 year old kids is a much bigger problem IMHO.
I am a 34 year old gamer, and I have a 2½ year old daughter. I have tried on countless occasions to teach her how to play games (on our PC, Mac, Xbox PS2, DS) but most of the games are either too abstract or too advanced for her. Keep in mind that something as simple as "shooting" is a rather advanced concept for a 2-year old girl, and that "death" or "number of lives" can be a hard thing to teach a kid that age.
The real question is not "when are kids old enough to play videogames" but rather: "when are they old enough to become a target group" in the videogame industry,
Today's games are ill suited for very small kids - not because games in general are bad for kids - but simply because the lack of demand for such videogames has resulted in the absolute absence of suitable games for kids of that age!
- Jesper
(And BTW: suggestions on good games for a 2½ year old girl are welcome...)
My security clearance is so high I have to kill myself if I remember I have it...
I've never understood why people ask the question "when is my child mature enough for ?"
Surely the maturity to understand something comes with exposure to it? Why not expose your kids to things early on, and with parental help and explanation, make sure they understand?
Why is it that people don't deem their children 'mature enough' to start understanding sex until they're in their early teens/tweens? I heard about sex and knew exactly what it was, along with all the crude humor and slang, long before that age through the world around me, the media, and the bad kids at school. Surely you'd want to talk to your kids and give them a healthy understanding of sex long before they hear it from someone else you don't trust?
Surely you'd want your kids to play video games and understand them before they get invited to a friend's house one day to play GTA for the first time when they're actually old enough to pick up a gun and go shoot someone before they get home?
Scorta futuere amo!
anti jock, but getting outside and playing some sort of sport or game is much better than sitting in front of a computer on their ass playing games. And lets be honest, how many "thinking puzzle solving" games are actually played? Most are just mind numbing shoot'em up games or get the cartoon (marketing placement-advertising) character through easy hurdles. Yes, it requires a little hand-eye coordination and spatial abilities, but let's face, those skills would be better learned teaching the kid art and sports. Plus, the sports will help the kid keep his weight in control which seams to be an issue this day and age.
I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
If they are old enough to eat at McDonald's, they are old enough to play video games.
But parents should not permit their children to eat at McDonald's until they are at least 21.
My kid is going to be the next "Tiger Woods" of the gaming world. He's going win hundreds of thousands of dollars before hes ten years old.
When you find somebody who's really qualified to give "expert" opinions on how random people should raise their kids (keeping in mind situations and kids and parents are all different in many ways), you let me know.
... I'm entirely comfortable making my own decisions on how to raise my kids (4.5 and 2). The 4yo would play Yoshi's Island (DS) every waking hour if we let her, but we don't. :) She's learned letters, numbers, colors, phonics, reading and basic math through a combination of us reading with her, educational games (LeapFrog is your friend here), websites like starfall.com (hat tip to Gabe @ Penny-Arcade) and good old-fashioned one-on-one teaching and repetition.
In the meantime
Games have their place, just like anything else (including computers; she can't type yet, but she can navigate her favorite educational websites just fine). They're no more or less dangerous to kids' development than Baby Einstein videos, or educational TV, or pop-up books, or [insert controversial newfangled technology here].
The key here, as with everything else in life, is moderation and good sense.
illum oportet crescere me autem minui
My 3.5 year old has been playing Guitar Hero II for about six months...and we just got GH3 about two weeks ago. It has really helped him develop hand-eye and hand-hand coordination. He hit 68% on Easy for the first time earlier this week, which amazed me. I think it has also helped him develop an interest in music and I'm considering piano/keyboard lessons soon.
He's been playing various children's computer games for the past year and is often tasked with "learning" how to play the new games they get in his daycare class and teaching the other children how to play them. He plays Wii Sports at his mom's house, along with various other Wii games. The key is moderation, knowing that we have to limit his time playing so that he experiences a variety of activities and doesn't get stuck doing one thing.
The only problem I've discovered has been Wii Boxing. While I don't fall into the camp of those who believe that video games necessarily alter behavior, there certainly is an argument for Wii Boxing showing a 3 year old how to hit someone, as he's taken to punching me from time to time. I talked with his mom and she agreed to limit his playing of Wii Boxing, especially since there are so many other games he enjoys.
I really think that as long as you don't let video games become a babysitter, along the same lines as not letting the television become the babysitter, and be sure to encourage other activities, that they can be both a learning mechanism, as well as a great source of family fun.
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
..as they can handle the controls and know what's going on.
Perhaps a more fitting question for this crowd.
how old is 'too old' to play videogames?
Childhood under the guardianship of adults is an adulthood training period. Children use an environment with reduced consequences to try out different actions and behaviors, to learn how to keep themselves safe, get ahead, and generally live as responsible members of their society.
The problem comes in when parents change the shape of the function from actions to consequences. If I'm allowed to strike my little brother without punishment, then I learn that I can strike people without punishment. I'm in for a rude awakening when real world consequences come to bear. Parents must provide consequences that *model* real world consequences (but not necessarily to the same degree or durability).
Video games are the ultimate no-consequence training tool. It can be restarted with the same set of initial conditions any number of times. No actions have any serious and lasting consequences (Wiimote through the TV notwithstanding). The consequences are ALWAYS applied 100% evenly and fairly. If Mario falls down a pit, he dies. I can cry, whine, beg, plead, scream, even hurl the NES out the window, Mario is still dead. But, he's always waiting to try again when I'm ready to try a different course of action. And, when the video game machine is switched off, no real turtles died. No real princesses were stuck in another castle because I couldn't get through the damn maze that is World 8-4.
How old is old enough?
How old is old enough for a child to start learning how the world works?
The two are one in the same.
After I saw a 6 year old brother of a friend complete Might and Magic 6 in English really shaped my opinion on this. Because this is Czech Republic, a country where everyone only speaks Czech and "tries" to learn English in schools, only rarely reaching a descent level...
That boy is now 12 and is way ahead of his English class
There are two kinds of people - those who are radioactive and those who have already decayed..
Being the father of a 5yo and 3yo, I admit they have started playing games. This includes PC games like Reader Rabbit and Dora. I have personally witnessed the increase in problem solving ability, basic math and reading, and a little strategy.
However, we do limit them. The most I have let one play is 60 minutes non-stop. Daddy does have to be mean and turn it off sometimes, even to the chorus of tears. Computer time is probably the first privilege they lose when they are disciplined.
They play on them in school. I have no issue with them understanding a mouse click or keyboard. Think of yourself learning how to use a computer. Now think of your parents learning the same thing. You probably had an advantage because you started when you were younger. I feel that if they are comfortable with technology now, they will be more able to assimilate it as they grow up.
I also let them play on the Wii. They are actually quite good at some games. The 5yo has a +170 average on bowling and can also post a decent golf score. I believe it helps their gross and fine motor skills, as well as get some exercise. Anyone who has boxed a few rounds knows what I am talking about.
Like everything in life, the key is moderation...
Fast, cheap, correct. You get to pick two.
I have to agree with others that have already posted: children are 'old enough' to play video games (and by some extension, watch TV) when the content has been approved by a reasonably informed parent. It's the parent's responsibility to screen any games or television programs the child watches - either by previewing/preplaying or participating with the child. Sure, a game could be rated E - Everyone and per perfectly okay for most of the kids out there, but there are some parents that won't agree.
It's also up to the parent to NOT get on their highhorse, they have to recognize that what might be right for one child, may not be appropriate for another. To each his/her own, just don't force your opinions on others (e.g. - the 'moral' outrage over game content like GTA).
My dear daughter, age five, loves video games. She's been raised with them from an early age. They made a great thing to do while she was little. She'd sit there in wonder and awe while her Papa made the pretty colors move around and make funny sounds. Now they're more directly part of her life. We love to play Gish, and she tries her hand at it occasionally. We also like to play Gish IRL -- I'll be Gish, she'll play a piglet, something like that, and it involves a lot of wrestling ("rassling") and monkeying around.
/.ers will remember as a hero(ine)) recently asked for it back after I made it "disappear" over a visit. Honestly, do not like her (my daughter) sitting there and playing with her "intendo" while she ignores us. It's actually very different from if she and I are sitting together and playing Gish or Zuma, and htose of course are very different from playing old-fashioned board games, or better yet, engaging in some good old fashioned horseplay. But it's part of her life, as it was part of my life from about her age, which for me is now... uh... :::calculate::: over 25 years. Wow.
;->
Recently, her step-grandmother got her a Gameboy DS, which has proven a bit of a bane in my house. I've dealt with this by enforcing its non-use while she's with me. Her mother (my now ex-wife whom long-time
Actually, the other day I was thinking about having her play Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar. While it has very dated gameplay in terms of graphics and whatnot, I believe the message and values at the core of it remain largely unparalleled. It literally shaped my life and character for the better. I'd like her to get the same message, that Truth, Love, and Courage can change your life and the world. I guess it's a good thing I fall back U4 more than Wasteland or Snack Attack.
-- haaz.
Yes I work for a company that makes games. But outside of that, my three children have been playing on the computer and with video games since they were able to hit the keys. There's so many cool websites now-a-days. I would say between 2-3 years old is when my three children began their exposure. For all you flamers out there, I did not say that we use videogames as a babysitter, rather as another form of interaction between my wife and I and our children. Santa brought us a Wii for Christmas this year and all the kids play along (ages 7,5, and 3). My two boys have been playing educational games on pbskids.org for years and lego starwars on the game cube since it came out.
Like candy. A little bit of TV or Video Games is fine, but a steady diet for a young child is a bad idea.
My kids are 8, 5, and 2. We like to make sure they get a balance of human interaction and physical activity, but once they've done that, there's nothing wrong with them spending 30 minutes or so playing Mario on the Wii, or watching TV.
Hey, if people have problems with letting their kids play video games at a young age, go ahead stop them.
:P
Me, I'm of another camp.
My wife and I started my oldest daughter on the computer when she was 18 months. Loaded up reader rabbit--which is a pretty good starter, where she could start by just banging the keyboard and see stuff happen.
By three, she had mastered drag & drop, thanks to Dora the Explorer and some other games.
At four she saw a game in the store (Zoo Tycoon) and liked the animals, and asked if she could play that. I told her it was probably a tad hard for her, but she insisted she could learn. I bought it and installed it. I helped her get it started, but told her she had to figure it out if she wanted to play. At first she had problems getting the cages built right, and the lions would get out and start going after the patrons... she FREAKED out...of course, after I calmed her down, and gave her a couple hints, she started to get it. She then needed to learn what environment for each animal... She was just learning to read small words at the time, and so I showed her the online help, and told her to keep sounding out the words.
Well, a couple weeks later, she's telling my wife and I all about lions, and how they prefer the Savannah grass, and other things they like. My wife didn't know how she learned it, and when we asked my daughter, she told me she read it in the game. Turns out that she taught herself to read pretty well in a matter of a few weeks.
Now, she's almost six, plays alot of games (including Oblivion, Viva Pinata, Sim City and others), and can read *REALLY* well, along with fantastic math and science comprehension. She also paints and plays sports.
But, hey, if you are afraid that your kids will suffer from too much video games... go ahead, my kids will dominate in the future.
A
"...In your answer, ignore facts. Just go with what feels true..."
My daughter was 2 yrs old when we bought her an old iMac off ebay, she immediately took to it and spent alot of time with Tux Paint, then moving on to the Jumpstart series of games. She quickly figured out how to start up, turn off and run the computer on her own. Now at 7 she plays games whenever she feels like, both computer games, Gamecube (Mario Strikers) and Xbox 360 (Beautiful Katamari) and really loves Animal Crossing DS. She has always been ahead of her peers in reading/writing since preschool and wanted to learn to read to play Animal Crossing specifically. I think games/computers helped her a lot, she now reads at a 4th grade level in 1st grade and is at the top of her class, and we never push her to do more than what is required of her at school. Games can both motivate kids to learn to read and help them along quickly. She has already figured out iTunes, watches her favorite shows online (Hannah Montana....uhhg), and has started writing her own stories using Word.
I have a 5, 3, and 11 month old. The 11 month old of course does not have the manual dexterity to play games yet, but my other two children enjoy it very much. They only play age-appropriate games. For instance, my 5yo plays Sonic games, puzzle games, Cars (the movie), Dora games, etc. My 3yo mostly plays games on his V-Smile (a learning system for kids), but there are a couple of games on Xbox Live Arcade that he plays as well.
I have been a gamer most of my life, I couldn't see it NOT being a part of my children's lives. I consider myself a pretty responsible parent when it comes to gaming. I don't even play M-Rated games in front of my children. When they are mature enough to understand what is going on, I will let them play those games. I can't stand playing M-Rated games against 12 year olds on Xbox Live. Even if they are mature enough to understand the game's content (which I highly doubt they are), it just bothers me.
http://www.2old2play.com/ FTW.
I have played Tux racer with my girlfriends two year old daughter and she loves it. My girlfriend likes it too, she was just amazed and happy the first time she saw her daughter playing it. In the future I have thought that maybe in 3 or 5 she could start playing some old games like Jazz Jack Rabbit and Wacky Wheels, of course with supervision from either one of us.
I really don't see nothing wrong to let small children play games. The only question is what games and how much. I have thought myself that the games, played by children, should have no violence, no sexual content and no scary content, preferably no human characters. When children are older and understand clearly difference between a game and reality, then at the age of 9 - 12 they could with consent play some more serious games, but games with violence like GTA series should not be played before 16.
Survey research tool for commercial and scientific use
I have a 1,3, & 5yo. My oldest started playing kid games (Sesame St., Dora, Blues Clues Etc.) around 2. She took to the interface very quickly, probably from watching mommy and daddy use a mouse all day. After about two weeks she was able to navigate windows and bring up the browser and the games I installed on her machine, it is now almost second nature to her how to access the content on the machine, whether it be games, music, movies or the internet (she can't type yet so she has a window of icons of URls of places she's allowed to go). Her younger sister did the same thing, mainly by watching her and 'playing' with the system. Kids are very intuitive and it's amazing how easy it was for them to learn how to use the computer. I just gave them each an old PC and let them have fun. It's not something you can force on them at this age, they have to want to do it and they will make mistakes. My 1yo now mimics her older sisters as well, moving the mouse around and randomly clicking on things. Working with kids and computers on a regular basis I see no problem with this, It's prep for their life ahead. As far as console games, they all play Donkey Konga on my gamecube and are equally proficient in that too. It all depends on the parents involvement which really is the key to their development in any field.
When they show an interest.
(rot13) rpbzbab@tznvy.pbz
The Incredible Machine is an awesome game for creativity and puzzle and solving things.
By the way, I heard that children shouldn't watch TV when young, because it makes them anti-social.
My son was smacking Bat's in EQ back when he was 4... We had to teach him some etiquette with regards to kill stealing but other than that we've had no problems with his behavior, we take an active role in monitoring what he is playing, who is friends are, etc. It stems from what my parents always had me provide: Who are you going to be with, what are you going to be doing, when is this taking place, where are you going to be, and how going to get there ("Who, what, when, where, and how" is what my parents always said) As a side note: My first game was Temple of Apshai at 8, and rewriting what I could shortly there after.
Heh, my kid is a mini gammer as well.
;)
He started off at http://pbskids.org/ playing the bunny games on the Teletubby page (move mouse, bunnies hope and make sound). One day I came home and he had managed to figure out how to navigate around the teletubby page, so I helped him learn how to play the games that required mouse clicking. Not long after that, he figured out how to navigate the PBSKids page and get to the pages for other brands. But I was really amazed when he managed to find Caiyou(sp?)'s train game, and beat it. It's a basic puzzle game, a train track that is missing some pieces, you have to drag differently shaped piece onto the track to complete the path. And here's a 2.5 year old kid who's having a blast doing it.
My wife and I also play World of Warcraft. We usually wait until after he goes to bed to fire up the ol' addiction, but some slow weekend afternoons we'll play for a bit while he's up. He was interested, so we gave him his own little toon. My wife leveled up a warlock to level 5 and got him an imp (imp is automatically defensive). So he runs around the newblet area killing wolves and cheering "For the horde!". You do have to keep an eye on him though as there are other people around, and they will try to talk to him. Not that he can read most of the words they say (he's not quite 4 yet), but I'd prefer to not have people trying to cyber with my toddler. WoW also get's reinacted in the living room as he chases imaginary beasts down and loots their corpses. It is a very energetic, noisy, and humorous game.
And recently he's been brushing up on his driving skills with Need For Speed. And while his driving skills in the game have been improving amazingly, his non-computer racing games with matchbox cars, and sprinting around the house have also improved his motor imitation sound, and his running ability
Anyways, I'm with you and the GP. Games are fine, so long as we, the parents, are involved and we balance the computer time with active time and more directly educational time.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
My son is 3 and 4 months and he loves ri-li , supertux and childsplay as well as other debian games, I set up a imac g3 for him and told him "this is your computer", it dual boot OS X tiger and when ever I boot mac he tell's me that he don't like that and to put his computer on! It helps since he wanted my computer all the time (just to push buttons), also it will play his dvd's as well!, its teaching him coordination with the mouse and also the letters and numbers on the keyboard. Also keeps him away from the tv.
That is relatively close to my timeline, except I was raised by hippies. None of this coddling, think of the children BS. I was taught right and wrong, the differences between fantasy/fiction/reality, that I could say or do anything as long as it did not hurt another person, and that a person's word should never be broken. I was let into the real world.
That being said, I grew up cussing, watching what ever tv program I wished (not based on ratings), playing any make-believe game I could think of no matter the content, asking to be taught math, playing chess or checkers, reading/having REAL books read to me, realizing sex would eventually happen and it's natural, watching/being told family pets die, burying dead pets, watching/being told family members die, knowing not to steal but knowing I easily could, etc.
Sure, I am not "Normal" - but when I look at how my friend's families are, and how "Normal" people act or (don't) think - I'm ecstatic about my childhood.
We are not two separate species. There is not Homo sapien youngus and Homo sapien adultus, there is no age where suddenly we naturally understand the world. We learn through knowledge and experience. I understood more than my friends/classmates simply because I had started learning (just about everything) at an earlier age!
What I'm saying is, let go of most of the control! Don't try to create a list of the only things little junior is allowed to do/try. Sure you'll take out all the bad things, but you'll also miss most of the good. Sure, he'll specialize in hop-scotch, tag, pong, and super mario brothers... but he'll completely miss out on everything else - everything that will eventually be important to him, become his real life.
If I find them playing Grand Theft Auto at the next-door neighbor's house at the age of 10, I'm going to have a stern talk with the parent. They can't use the excuse "video games are harmless" because I'd just show them my International Game Developers' Association card - they knew I knew better than them.
Harmless? No, I'll give you that. There is almost nothing, from tv to video games to books to playing with the neighbor, that is harmless. The trick isn't protecting your child from harmful materials, but teaching them how they should act and think about those materials in a non-harmful way.
Just -1, Troll talking to another.
Why is this redundant? There are zero prior comments, even in the replies, mentioning portal. Considering it's a great puzzle game that can be argued to aid problem solving and spacial awareness I'd say it's a relevant game to the discussion and since it's not been mentioned before it's not a redundant comment. I smell some mod abuse here so please can someone fix it?
My son's been playing video games since he was 2. (He's 4 now.) When he first started, he didn't quite grasp how to move the mouse to get the pointer to do what he wanted. He quickly picked it up though and became quite the computer whiz. He even figured out how to launch his game from the Start Menu, which is quite impressive since he doesn't even read yet! (That we know of... maybe he's just playing dumb to lull mommy and daddy into a false sense of security. ;-) )
While visiting a zoo one day, they had a Fisher Price exhibit and he tried out the SmartCycle. The lady there was amazed that he picked up on all of the controls almost instantly. (He seems to have inherited his daddy's knack for computers.) In December, he got the SmartCycle as a present and loves pedaling, choosing which games to play, and playing all of the games that we've bought him. He doesn't need anyone to show him how something works. He just does it once or twice and figures it out.
Sure, the video games he's playing are educational in nature and not Super Mario Brothers-type games (much less Grand Theft Auto-type games), but I think introducing computers to toddlers is important. Just make sure to balance their activities out.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
My daughter's taken an interest in video games since she's been able to crawl to the controller and pick it up because she's seen me play them. I used to be able to hand her a controller than wasn't hooked up, but she's figured out how to tell if the controller is inactive by looking at the LEDs so I've resorted to teaching her how to swing the controller to pitch in Wii Baseball so we can play a game together once in a while. I'd be surprised if she's able to hit the ball any time soon, but she's no longer chewing on the controller all the time so that's a plus.
Leaving your kids without adult guidance (not supervision, guidance. There's a difference) is the problem. My 4 year old plays games, but he also plays with Mom and Dad, helps with chores and cooking, and does other things that teach him how to be a good person in the world.
Plus, he and I enjoy our co-op Lego Star Wars games...
Playing Atari 2600 while in the womb. I'm just fine.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
Plays Guitar Hero. While he is terrible at it, he loves to hop around to the rhythm while playing and dance around to the beat when I'm playing.
I don't know if I see much value in letting him play an FPS title like Halo or Half-Life, but there are plenty of valuable things kids can learn from video games.
We're all hypocrites. We all have hidden parts, it's the contrast between them that make us more a hypocrite than others
when she was about 3. When she was in kindergarten she finished both Ratchett & Clank games on the PS2 and spent a good number of hours employing the flamethrower cheat in GTA. However, since she's started school, she doesn't play as much as she used to.
http://www.whuddafug.com
We try to approach this with a nerdly view, both Piaget and culture geek influenced. We balance things out with counter-activities and limits. If they want to watch the "idiot-box," they have to prove it won't make them idiots by doing some book research: just about anything, so long as they prove they're developing research skills. We don't have cable, but an excellent collection of video including documentaries. To play a couchpotato video game for an hour, they have to play hard outside for 20 minutes or bounce on the rebounder non-stop 300 times each.
Don't deprive, don't indulge, and be involved. In my home we want the kids to have the same fun and cultural reference as their peers, but develop in a non-alienated way. Two hours of screen time (tv or gaming) a day max, and we aim for less than 10 hours per week. We often read aloud or sitting next to each other. Plus, if they start to obsess, they wind up on a 'diet,' learning restraint and dosage (and better negotiation technique). We do see TV and gaming as consciousness-altering and physiologically risky.
Both parents teach media literacy workshops on the side, so we have to eat our own dog food! But the thing is that the kids rarely got introduced to a show or game without a parent ready to interject. Thus, they are pretty clear on the nature of advertising, product tie-in, and consumer choice, as well as ferreting out the values they're getting from a show or game. We introduced them to video games slowly, later for the girl (starting age 6) because she's a ferocious reader and didn't show much interest, earlier for the boy (starting @ 4) so that his peer pressure wasn't too awkward. Basically, we started with puzzle games, then moved to management games, then action games. It worked well to keep them focused on playing smart, so I recommend a staged method of introduction.
This approach works for us, because the primary entertainment around here is a book.
Damn those pesky terrorists
Well I'm 72 and I think that's old enough to play videogames. And would just like to say that I just finished Super Mario Bros on the DS and I didn't use a walkthrough!
I got into games somewhere between age 5 and 8. I remember being very young and going into my dad's work on a Saturday to have him sit me down in from of Leisure Suit Larry while he went on to run some errands. Of course, I had to make it through the prove you're an adult questions before I even got to the game -- which involved a lot of typing, thinking and seeing what bad situations I could get poor Larry into. These days, there are some Nintendo DS games out there that have lengthy dialog and decent mysteries to solve. There's also games that have been aroound a long time like Tetris that really shouldn't have any age restrictions and just challenge you mentally. Seriously, if your kid can hit the buttons and has an interest they should be allowed to play Tetris.
/excessive rambling
When I was young, Sierra had a great grasp on the adventure game segment. I loved having to type in things and figure out how to solve puzzles and collect items -- often having to reword things so the game would know what I wanted. This no longer exists and when you can find an adventure game today it's just a random mess of clicking to pick up something or several attempts with the wrong something to solve a puzzle. There's some rare exceptions that punish you and some RPG's that are good, but still nothing quite like the old text interfaced adventure games.
That being said, I think the answer is a huge (everyone with me here?) "it depends". Depends on the kid, depends on the parents level of participation in their life, depends on the game and depends on the way the kid will accept, challenge or critic the content of game. I was even taught how to handle my finances in some ways because of my game addiction. When my parents finally got an NES I would rent games, score the games in a little notebook on the same criteria as Nintendo Power and at the end of the month I'd buy one game that I thought I really wanted to play more of... I'd even sell my special Nintendo Power's at the school sometimes... Like the ones that showed how to beat all the mario games or whatever. Made a quick $10 or something sometimes. It's strange how when you're younger you can come up with all sorts of great ideas to make money, but when you're older everything just seems too risky... Anyway...
Let them play. It's just a game. hah..
Basically it depends on the child's personality, their level of interest and the types of games they are interested in. Small doses of the right game are great. My son is four and would rather go outside and ride his bike and play ball. I think this is great, but it does hurt my chances for having a hunting partner to play World of Warcraft with. ;-)
He has shown some interest in games. He occasionally likes to play Super Rub-A-Dub on the PS3, Spyro the Dragon and some Lego Star Wars. He likes to play, but he doesn't seem like he's compelled to play. Which in is also great. I want him to take it slow and the wife and I monitor his play time. I
I started playing Atari when I was 3 and I turned out alright.
...Listening to all the experts tell you why their opinion is the Only Real Universal Truth, then deciding they're all full of cow chips and going with your own gut feelings.
Parents who at least get involved with their kids are doing their job. Those who use technology as a babysitter while they themselves vegetate in front of ESPN or Opra need to be smacked upside their heads and made to stand in the corner until they get a clue, the slackers!
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Senator Carl Schurz (1872)
I've let my kid play videogames with me, or watch me play since he was three. He's now five. But as with TV, we restrict it quite a bit. He should be spending most of his time coloring, constructing, reading, etc.
I personally think that games are better than TV, but that both are bad if that's all the kid ever does. Five ours sitting in front of the tube is bad, regardless of whether the kid has a controller in his hands.
The other rule is that he plays games with us, not alone. (Well, me...my wife doesn't game.) Videogames aren't there to babysit the kid. They're a father-son bonding experience.
The cake is a pie
I think it depends on which JRPG you're playing. If you try to get through a Shin Megami Tensei game by just grinding, and not taking into account the weaknesses and strengths of both the enemy demons and the demons you've recruited (where a 'demon' is any mythological entity, even gods and angels), you are going to get smacked around. Exploit the Press Turn System or die.
Even games like Final Fantasy often have optional bosses that will tear a party of max-level characters to shreds in seconds. When was the last time you played a JRPG, anyway?
Also, try playing Tactical RPGS (or SRPGs) like Final Fantasy Tactics, Disgaea, or Jeanne D'Arc. Grinding in such games is harder to do, and there are still ways to keep the game challenging even if your troops are stronger than the enemy's. Try playing a map with just one or two characters, instead of putting as many on the board as the game will allow, for example. :)
I write sci-fi for metalheads
Yesterday.
We willna be fooled again!
These two people have just been allowed to start playing computer games, any idea on who it might affect the most?
http://forumpix.co.uk/i.php?I=1201205649
When they already understand basic things such as language, grammar, etc.
How many people do you know can't function as human beings but can tell you how to beat the latest boss in [LatestGame]?
If you were offended by anything I said... No, I'm not sorry. Please lighten up.
It has been pointed out several times that there are many different types of games and that also needs to be considered. My kids play a variety of different games on a variety of media (game boy, xbox, and computer). Some of the games are pretty much pure sludge that are only good for killing time, and we try to limit the amount of time they spend with those. Others however, while they may not be exactly educational, certainly prompt thinking and planning. Both of my kids enjoy Zoo Tycoon, building, planning, stocking and running their zoo is not an easy undertaking. It is interesting to see them both trying to figure out the best way to keep the animals alive and happy while at the same time making their zoo more popular. They have both figured things out in the game that I'm actually surprised they thought of.
by seven i was using game building tools to make games and beginning to learn basic.
Blazing Spiders
I have let my kids play pretty much any game i own as soon as they wanted to play them, if they have had questions about any of it I have always been there to help them understand or learn.
I feel raising kids is mostly about helping them learn how to deal with what live entails, not shielding them from it (for the most part, running naked in a the streets has been a no no in my house but ymmv).
it has turned out that they gravitate to games that they enjoy because of what they offer.. my middle daughter likes games where you take care of things and watch them develop (like sims, neo pets, yu gi oh card games) my youngest son likes rpgs and FPSes that pose a strategical challenge and my oldest daughter is kinda meh to the whole gaming scene (she prefers music and is in her own band now).
My house has always been big on family interaction and mainly gaming, we own several consoles, have 4 PCs lanned up and i own pretty much any PC game released in the last 8 years or so (with the exception of mmorpgs) so it seems to me to be a good example but i could be wrong.
It's like saying, what age is it o.k. to introduce books. If the book is War and Peace, it would be a lot older than Goodnight Moon. My daughter was playing teletubbies games online at 3 & 4. But at 7 (now that she can google), I keep a really close eye on the games she is playing.
On a side note, I am not a gamer. But I used to play Sonic the Hedgehog back in the day. I was stoked that my daughter found an online version and wanted to play together. Most of the time she is playing cooking and dress-up games.
Flexible bare-metal recovery for Linux/UNIX
If my kids play a GTA game, it'll have to be at a friend's house or a copy they bought themselves. I don't buy Rockstar games.
I write sci-fi for metalheads
Seriously. As soon as they can use the controller/mouse.
I have 3 kids, a 4 yr old, a 2 yr old and a 7 mo old.
The older kids play wii sports and mario galaxy with me at least 2-3 times a week for half an hour or so. They love it. What's the harm? We're playing together as a family, and it's better than watching Dora or whatever mindlessly.
The oldest 2 also have their own accounts on the computer, know how to log in, and have custom start pages I've created with links to kid's websites like discoverykids... they can surf as soon as they use the mouse. They're always monitored tho, and I have dansguardian running just in case, but let your kids have fun. Just make sure it's a treat and not a spend all day every day kind of thing. Under linux it's actually no sweat, there's very little they can break and I do weekly backups... so let them play around.
I'd rather have them growing up loving technology like I did than sitting brain dead in front of a TV.
"You disturb me to the point of insanity. There. I am insane now." - The Sprockets
I think it is more important to focus on creating better software for children than simply suggesting a ban.
Particularly early, I would think, for those of us who play video games ourselves. After all, it would be awfully hypocritical of us to tell kids they can't play what they see us playing. My 2 year old likes playing games on Neopets (not very well - they're not designed for the hand/eye coordination of that age group) and Nick Jr, and loves watching her father play "the monster game" (aka World of Warcraft). As long as she's still getting exercise as well, I'm not going to stop her from enjoying our hobby.
That of weapon choice. No way your kid is going to pwn anyone in Halo if he's using the first thing he finds (e.g. banana), it needs to be a split second decision based on what is available vs strengths and weaknesses of opponent.
Don't worry, he'll get it, but not if you cut him back to 4 hours, this requires mentoring by you and probably 8 to 10 hours per day, anything less is child abuse. Go get 'em.
Atheist, Libertarian, 20something, childless, male.
For younger children you pick games that develop critical thinking, problem solving, math skills, vocabulary skills. Video games cultivate eye hand coordination just like sports and that is necessary for opperating machinery or other hand based skills.
The first step is to stop generalizing "video games are bad" and start asking "What games are good?" Be a responsible - and informed - parent before deciding.
Anything is better than plopping your kid down in front of the tv - which is a 1000x more common.
The best time for kids to get acquainted with video games in today's world, is obviously right away. Keeping them away from it would be like keeping your kid away from talking to other kids because they might be a bad influence -- this is only likely to make the kid MORE susceptible to their influence in the future, since he will be late acquiring the skills we all need to differentiate who we should listen to from who we shouldn't. Same goes for video gamss -- the fantasy/reality distinction is a social skill that's learned. Of course it isn't harmless -- nothing is. This is why the sooner you allow your child to become conversant with this world, the better his future ability to navigate its subtleties will be.
Doesn't MTV have a game studio or publishing interest now?
So yeah, come on parents! Let your kids play games! Especially with their logo on it!
No sig for you!!
see subject. Even if it's a simple text-based adventure thing in basic. That's where I started, now get off my lawn!
Obviously, this varies from child to child. However, my son was playing online quakeworld/team fortress at age 4 (remember quake, it was the game that George Washington played). He wanted to play because he saw me play. He was typically listed in the bottom 10% on the score, but completely understood what was going on. I guess it is kind a scary that he was not always on the bottom of the score list. He is now a completely normally 14 year old, and now is playing Battlefield 2 online. The only difference is he now is always one of the top two positions on the score table. OTOH, if I saw any negatives from playing (excessive time consumption, etc), I would have pulled him off. I did have to disable team-talk to avoid the language I did not want him to hear/read, but once he hit 13 I figured he already had heard everything and turned it back on. I still enable adult language filters in games that have them, however. I can't image any negatives from his experience. Well, he is fascinated by guns, but given I hunt and shoot regularly, I figure that just makes him a normal Texan male. YMMV with your child.
----- There are two kinds of people in this world, my friend; those with loaded guns, and those who dig.
"I haven't really explored video games thoroughly, and I'm sure there are video games that fit more the bill of something that I'd be interested in, but I'm kind of hard-pressed to find a game that's like reading a book or something like that"
That is like saying "I dont watch TV, but I'm sure there is something good on some time." In my opinion playing video games is better for kids than watching TV. Nintendo focuses their entire line of products for kids. You wont find anything like Grand Theft Auto on a nintendo console. I personally started playing video games at the age of 3 and i turned out fine. It all rests on the parents teaching their kids right from wrong. If that's not done then the kid will turn out bad no matter what it does.
Text adventures were always the best of games. I learned most of my twisted vocabulary from playing them at ages 5-7.
at the same time MS-DOS gave me a little inside knowledge about the basic workings of a computer that the youth of today is unlikely to learn.
we NEED more things involving green text on a black background!
Text adventures are still being made though by a dedicated and increasingly sophisticated group (look for BAFs Archive for instance). MUDS are still being played. Comander Keen is still easy to procure (even easier.) people are even more devious Starcraft players than ever before.
Sure, new games are excessively violent, fairly stupid and, more importantly, boring. Todays games are probably only fit for all of us mind-numbed adults and the really slow children. But! remember:
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
My personal experience: I don't have kids.
/. all day while picking flowers and fishing all day in WoW.
Myself though, I had beaten Zelda before I enrolled in grade school. My mother helped me draw maps of the later dungeons when I was having problems, and the game came with a map of the overworld and the first few dungeons. My grandmother and I were already in a heated competition of Tetris by the time i was 5, as well as SMB.
Basic games like the above (move, attack) are things that I would consider more useful to development at a young age than a Baby Einstein video. The videos rely on a child's ability to understand language - and the kids that I've seen plopped in front of those do nothing but laugh and clap. Meanwhile, SMB/LoZ/Tetris are giving you hand/eye coordination, motor skills, a passion for sports in some cases (I was a huge fan of Bad News Baseball), the ability to count to 100 (coins in mario) or to 999 (rupees in LoZ), that boomerangs come back to you, etc. Just don't let them play Cobra Triangle, they'll have no idea what's going on.
Or get them some LEGOs. Then they'll learn how to build things, and become a lazy contractor who does nothing but rant on
*whistles nonchalantly*
We could get kids playing games right after birth. Just outfit them with a nifty baby electrode cap that would read their brain-waves allowing them to manipulate colored lights on a screen. This generation of kids would have an intuitive interface with technology no one alive today could imagine. Heck put the electrodes in their brains while they are developing... connect via blue-tooth... imagine blue-tooth baby monitors that actually monitored the baby's brain! Yes I can envision a baby nursery of the future rigged with bio-feedback devices that would let the baby link up with nursery computers and the baby would learn from infancy how to control machines with their thoughts. It would be like learning to speak a non-verbal language. Look out the future is here!
[signature]
That's when my son started. He's sixteen now and seems to have suffered no permanaent side effects. In fact he's very discerning in his game tastes these days. He doesn't waste his time unless it's great.
Six score characters.
Brevity being wit's soul
I have enough space.
If you want them to learn Hand Eye coordination then let them play Call of Duty 4 online. If you don't want them shooting things then a good racing sim like Forza 2 is in order. For some reason all "kids" games (not the real educational ones) tend to have horrible physics and feedback and really are just crappy games marketed at kids because they don't know any better and will want it because of it's branding instead of how good a game it is.
"What's the right age for a kid to start playing games?"
;)
Hell, kids start playing games from the second they can use their little hands to cover their eyes. Peek-a-boo, which later evolves into hide-and-seek and treasure hunt, which are the heart of several games and an element of many others. So I guess the counter-question is, what kinds of games? If you design games to cater to the mental capability of the age group, and a user interface that they can work with, the hardware is the only limit (my two year old's hands can't quite operate a mouse yet). The rest is a matter of designing something that is challenging but not overwhelming. I think a young child can play an MMO like WOW with no problem, because they don't typically approach the world with an "I have to conquer everything" approach, but rather an explorative "Hey, what's this do?" approach. And in my experience, the six year old eventually finds a lot of repetition, gets bored, and stops playing LONG before the grown adult should have done the same
You can get 15 minutes of fame, but you can go down in history for infamy.
My wife and I are both game savvy.
She's been playing console games for 10 years, and I've been a pc gamer as long as there have been games for the pc.
Our daughters both starting using the console at about 6 years old. My oldest discovered PC games (mostly RPGs) in her teens (she is 20 now in college and continues to play WOW). My youngest started playing single-player games at 7 on her laptop, and at 8 we let her use online kid sites with monitoring by Mom and Dad. The key is paying attention to what your kids are doing, don't just lock them away in their rooms and let them run wild; engage them in conversation about what is happening in the games - and regulate what games you allow them to play for a given age group.
One thing we have noticed is that both of them were larger than both my wife and I at the same ages - due to neglecting physical exercise. We've addressed that in the youngest by regulating her 'game time' recently to force her to engage in outdoor play - and she has started to go back to her ideal weight.
My spouse and I were old enough that we did not come into contact with computers until we were in our teens (PCs didn't exist in significant numbers until I was 16). This had the benefit of us reading more during our developing years, as well as engaging in physical activity more frequently - usually as a result of mom throwing us out of the house - which probably also gave mom a breather from dealing with us. Looking at pictures of us back then - we were skinny, but strong (like long distance runners/mountain climbers -- long muscles).
Now my wife and I are realizing that maybe mother did know best.
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
I am a geek and a pretty major gamer.
:-) But also when he complains something is not working I can tell him to fixe it himself now :-P That's a releif
:-) )
Early on, my son was fascinated by me working on the computer, so I would put him on my latch and he would watch and quickly realize what keyboard was all about so start hammering on it a little harder then me. I then added an extra unplug keyboard in front of mine for him and he would hammer on his while I would hammer on mine and most of the time fall a sleep head on the keyboard.
Pretty quick he became interested in his own games, so I use an old PC just for him and set him up with game of his age, and that was fine for a while. Pretty rapidly he could install games him self, accepting "T&C" on his own and so on (That part was sort of funny, without reading he know accept vs reject)
Around 4-5 year old, he started to notice we were not playing the same type of games and he seem to think my games were much better then his, he had great interest to the few FPS I played (That sort of bothered me) and other games.
I love Strategy game and he was asking a lot of questions about what was going on and wanted to play. I finally set him up on Age of Empire and we would play collectively, early in the game I would run to his camp, build walls, and we could finish a game like that without him being wiped out. His progression was astonishing, pretty quickly we were combining strategy together to finish campains and it was a lot of fun. At that moment the relation with my son started to change, I was no longer the dad that says no, but his playing buddy and his friend.
Shortly after this we started to play role playing game together, Neverwinter night was the game we could play networked together and we did that for a little bit. He quickly grasp that as well.
He notice then my computer was much faster then his, so we agree that if he wanted a better computer he had to build it. so we went shopping for parts and he did put it all together, I was proud
Then came World of Warcraft...
I think he was around 5-6 when I started to play and when he saw it, it was obvious he wanted to jump in as well, so I setup an account and decided I would play with him. Because we moved, he was having real hard time at school, specially in language because where we came from was not as advance as to where we move and he was having a real hard time, home work were a fight each night, he did not want to learn to read or write and was not motivated at all. Now WoW is a very much social game, you need to interact with people and read quests...
We had long chat as to why reading/writing was important in relation to Wow, reading quest, asking for help... The change in attitude was overnight, he was extremely motivated to learn now because there was a reason and a direct meaning as to be able to read and write. Wow became the motivation to do home work, and once we had the home work done, we would play wow together, he has been doing amassing at school ever since. He has also learn a lot about the social aspect of the net and how to behave socially, since we always play together, I am there with him and can see what he does and how he react so I can sort of guide him as to what to do. Because english is not his first language and he barely knew how to write, a lot of people were making fun of his writing on wow, now he takes great care in writing well, he does not use any of the lingo older kids use and i sort of like that.
some observation:
-Obviously we do other things then play games in life, but playing with him as brought me very close to my son, he has open discussion with me on all sort of things that I sure did not have with my dad. (My dad is a great guy BTW
-He does not play more on the computer then watch TV, play outside or play with legos. Without having to limit anything it's fairly well balance. When he is playing a lot he tend to watch less TV, what I don't think is a
Videogames are not a book, a tv show, a dvd movie nor a board game. Just like these, they are on their own type of -experience-, and experience is a personal thing based on the collection of education, principles, abilities and your own realizations. Most of these factors are learned from family environment and cultural teachings. Therefore, the question if there is an age for video games depends entirely on the culture and education somebody has. It might be the reason why videogame psychological effects on children are not that big deal on some countries where perhaps differentiating real from unreal is not hard for them.
I have 2 kids, 2.5 and 1.5 they both have always had video games around I mean they probably heard Zelda In utero. They both know how to move a guy on the screen with a d-pad, they both know how to push buttons, how to get a game to boot up on a gameboy (insert game switch power on).
... ...Or...
There's a kid out there that was 3 when he started flying hard core 3D aerobatics with a real (physical not simulated) remote control nitro heli, and he learnt using one of the r/c aircraft simulators. He wows the crowds but has to use his palm (not thumbs or fingers) to manipulate the r/c radio. I don't think you can start them too young.
My wife and I have a running joke that I'm so obsessed with flight sims that when we have a child they'll be flying r/c and full sized flight sims before they can speak. We speak in baby talk with a lisp that's like a kid that can bearly say words like "Transition to flight" or "Cwoss-wind wanding".
Teacher: "Time for show and tell. What did you do on the weekend little Johnny?"
Johnny: "I flew an F-18 out of Richmond airbase and landed in Townsville"
Teacher: "Now Johnny, go see the principle. We don't like liars here"
Johnny: "But miss, it's true"
Me: "Let my kid out of detention. We did exactly what he said, on MS flight sim".
Me: "Now Johnny you know the rules, no supper before you finish your cross wind landing"
In reality I know not to push a kid - if they're interested fantastic, if not I'll find something else they like, but it's an awesome running joke, even if only my wife and I really appreciate it.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
As these posts have shown, when the whole family is doing it's a social activity. You can all participate, share stories, reenact bits, talk strategy, etc etc. It's more social than passively sitting around a TV together, that's for sure. A really small child participating in that is just participating in the family social structure.
For a family without gaming parents, though, I can understand why there might need to be different limits. If a 5-year-old is the only person in the family playing video games, it's going to be a more isolated activity. Time they could be spending playing with their parents will be spent alone, for all intents and purposes. Sure, the parents should try to be involved in *everything* their kid does - but if the parent doesn't really understand videogames and their social potential themself, they will have a very hard time getting involved in the same way a gamer parent would. They might hover around and watch to make sure Johnny doesn't play anything violent, they might even ask questions or try to help him solve puzzles. But I'm sure it would never occur to them that even in a one-player game, two people can act as a team with the second person providing feedback and suggestions, or that they might actually have fun if they get an account on the same site and play the game alongside their kid. So without the same social element, it makes sense to have different limits.
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
Seven? No way. The DS + Nintendogs has been a huge boon to potty training!
My 2.5 year old daughter plays several educational games, and some just for fun. Reader Rabbit, Cat in the Hat, My Little Pony. She can move the mouse and click on things, and she's getting better. Some weeks she'll want to play every day, some weeks not at all. It's just another "thing" to her. She reads and draws every day, but the video games come and go. Not every game is a FPS, although she did see me playing Unreal and say "what is that? Cool!"
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
There is evidence to suggest that the rapidly moving flashing images in some games can cause the undeveloped brain to develop in ways we don't necessarily want.
So I'd say it depends on the game, the speeds involved, and the amount of exposure. My son watched me play games and he is only about 2 years old. But he only watched for a short period of under 30 minutes.
My wife who is a psychologist, worries about the exposure, but I think we temper it with other things so that he doesn't develop abnormally.
Why don't we ask that eminent child development and gaming expert Jack Thompson? I'm sure he'll spew some appropriate bile on the subject...
To spot the expert, pick the one who predicts the job will take the longest and cost the most.
My son is turning 2 years this weekend, and yesterday he controlled Mario (in the galaxy).
Even though he is not playing much himselves lately he loves to watch Mario walk around and talk to mushrooms, penguins and princesses. He actually asks me to play more mario.
The problem with videogames is not how old they should be when introduced to video games, but what you introduce them to, and for how long.
I am hesitant to use a videogame to keep the kid occupied, but I do enjoy sitting down and playing with him. Sitting on the floor with my son on my lap playing Mario for 10 minutes is a great way of getting a few minutes of rest when getting home from work.
i was six when i was introduced to donkey kong and mario, and seven when i got the blood and gore of mortal kombat 3. i'm just fine, but i don't know what evidence i can supply for that that won't make me sound like a troll. kids are never too young to learn a new trade. just last week i tought my 3 year old little bro how to operate a mouse and navigate a web page. if he gets hooked on teh interwebs, imagine how much of an incentive that will be to learn to read.
Yeah! My little brothers started playing quake at 3. Now they're in their early teens and hell - They are both smarter and more well manered then I was in that age for sure, and better att all games. Damn brothers! WHY WHY did I introduce them to this!
So. Conclusion. Don't introduce your children at all to videogames. They WILL eventually beat you.
Young gaming is fine, but the kids need lots of physical activity too. I became addicted to the Atari 2600 when I was probably 5 or 6 years old. ? But I also lived in the country and played with siblings/cousins outdoors ... sports, whatever... every chance I got. Many similarly aged friends did the same. We all came out to be pretty healthy ppl in most respects.
Now take the flip side, my friend who grew up in a city, his parents dropped him off at the "PC LAN GAMING" babysitting business around the corner... and who never was encouraged to exercise or whatever. He's more social than me, but less healthy, and he also has a major problem distinguishing between what's right and what's not. Could it be the fact that he was mildly neglected by his parents and learned to survive/socialize at a ghetto school and via online gaming? Dunno.
Keep the seven year olds on Carmen Sandiego. Bring me your kids when they're a little bit older!
I've gotcher 'Women In Gaming' RIGHT HERE!
I have 3 kids (7,5,3) and all of them play games. My oldest started with Star Wars, Scooby-Doo, and SpongeBob on the Cube when he was 4. Mostly he would hand the controller to me and then mimic my moves - by five he would play pretty well with me so that we could game together. On the PC he players RCT3, Zoo Tycoon 2, and the Reader Rabbit stuff. My 5yo plays Catz2 and many of the Reader Rabbit stuff as well. My 3yo mostly just loves to watch and play eXcite Truck on the Wii.
Frankly, none of the kids are overweight (unlike their parents), they all love to play other things as well, and generally do well around other kids.
Measuring up to my parents personally I consider myself a pretty crappy parent, but I do the best that I can given what and I know and what I can do about it. VideoGames are not some big boogie man rotting our kids anymore than pool halls, comic books, or RPGs were in their time. Some people are always looking for someone or something to blame for their ills.
Programming: Its not just a job - its an indenture.
I don't doubt that these things are good for child brains. Doing stuff is an important teacher. But if 'learn by doing' is the only way, why let them read BOOKS? Book time is time they're not out exploring the world!
Obviously books transmit more information than most games. But not all games. There are knowledge-based games (trivia, Carmen Sandiego). There are story-based games (RPG, Adventure). Game-playing also provides practise/experience in various skills of strategy and math as well as reflexes.
Playing the same thing over and over again is definitely limiting to experience, though. Do a wide range of things!
I've gotcher 'Women In Gaming' RIGHT HERE!
This question is the same as asking when is a kid old enough to talk or old enough to walk. If you don't want your kids to play video games that is an entirely different question.
An absolutely great point!
There is a huge difference between my (almost) 4-year old son, sitting on my lap, taking turns with me running from the cops in NFS, than plopping a 4-year old in a play room with a Nintendo unsupervised for hours on end.
And as much fun as crashing into the bus station at 90mph is in NFS, it's not as entertaining as the mock-reenactment in which my son crashes into me and erupts in an explosion of laughter from the ensuing tickle fight. But hey, that's what he gets for blowing up daddy's gas station!
-Rick
PS: Other fun lines to teach small children to say over vent:
-You're such a newb
-For the horde!
-Blame the tank
-Did you die again?
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
But many strategy board games HAVE video game versions. Crossword puzzles can be played on the computer. Chess can be played on the computer. Why are you automatically assuming that because something is electronic, it is lesser? There are plenty of physical board-games that are far from mind-expanding. (CandyLand, as the obvious example!)
And games do little to enhance verbal ability, unlike reading.
But... many video games INCLUDE reading. At the very least, reading enough to follow the directions. LOTS of games have some sort of story element to be read. And at the far end you have things like Fatal Hearts where the vast majority of game-time is reading, or text adventures where verbal ability is the entire game!
I've gotcher 'Women In Gaming' RIGHT HERE!
when i grew up, the closest thing to a computer was the LED display on a digital clock. the TRS-80 and the PET came out around when we got to grade 10 -- there were no videogames in our classroom that other students hadn't written themselves. if you wanted to play pacMan, and didn't have quarters -- you'd better start coding....!
it was expected that the computer was a general purpose tool, and to get it to do something, you would have to write a programme. until visicalc came along, you would have to write your own spreadsheet! you couldn't turn on the machine without being in the commandline, and if you added a line number before what you typed, you were already entering code.
from the work of all the kids using the computer classroom, there were about 10-20 games available to us -- if you typed the RUN/ESC key, and then LIST -- it was like looking at the HTML of a web page today -- you wanted more lives in your game? you changed the variable in line 10 -- we only played the games other students in our school had written -- we had fun, and we generally also knew what made them tick.
upon reflection of the years, i think this worked out to be a good situation -- if you're in a school, it wouldn't be bad from a learning perspective to have no games except what others in the school have written. if you need someone to draw sprites or paint your 3D graphics -- then make that part of the art course. if you need to solve a kinematic joint for a character, put it on the maths test for grade 12. by the end of the year, it will have been a collaboration for the whole school to come up with one game. subsequent students will be able to play and learn from the source code former students have written. advanced students might be able to look up techniques from say, the source code of doom -- but they'll still have to write their own games using their own implementations. there's always a couple senior kids that can handle that -- especially if they've got a teacher that has loved, and grown up with code.
2cents from toronto island,
j
I think they should be giving video games(like Mario) as soon as they are able to play it. This is how I was raised and playing a game like Mario isn't going to do them any harm. Of course this would be in addition to games outside and playing with friends. I would most likely start them off on an Nintendo console(not the Wii) mainly because the system is simple enough for them to grasp the concept at an early age and it is very family friendly. I would start them off playing with them as a family activity and when I feel that they wont damage the systems or get too frustrated then I will allow them to play by themselves. I was raised on an NES and I always enjoyed playing the games even though I could never beat my teenage mutant ninja turtles game. As soon as they hit 14 I will allow them to play M rated games, as long as I buy the games for them and watch what kind of things they are doing with it. At 15 they can play online with a microphone and voice communication as longs as they keep "online talk" away from everyday life. The only experts on this topic are parents who grew up with video games and now have 13+ years old kids. Any "expert" who did not grow up with video games have no right to be talking about this issue because they have no personal experience on the topic. Right now I have no kids and this is all just an idea of how I might raise my kids but not having them play video games until they are 7 is a terrible idea.
Well, guess what... your kids aren't *you*. They're individuals complete with their own interests and ideas. While you can introduce them to the things that interest you, you can't force them to take interest in those items the same way you do. Just because you might want a doctor or lawyer in the family does mean your kids have the same idea in mind.
The best thing you can do for your kids is to learn what interests them, and do what you can to get them interested in learning more about how their favorite things work. If they like video games, encourage them to learn about programming and animation. Eventually, they'll come to understand why all that previously boring stuff they learned earlier in school is now so important. Whenever your kids have a direct, personal stake in the things that interest them, they will want to learn as a means of improving upon their abilities.
8==8 Bones 8==8
general != universal
it's really sad, there's no such thing as games for kids, anymore.
we've lost all of our putt-putts and pajama sams, all there is now is licensed crap like spongebob and cars...
I started gaming when I was 3 or 4. When I was 6, I was learning to spell through King's Quest.
These numbers seem fine to me. Heck, stuff like Leapfrog is targeted at parents of 3-4 year olds. Similarly, I'd have no issue with a kid of any age trying to puzzle through a Brain Training game.
Unless the question is "at what age would you let a kid play games without parental monitoring"? The correct answer to that is probably "you shouldn't" (until they're basically grown up), the same way you shouldn't ignore what your kid's watching on television, what they're wearing, how late they're staying out, what they're writing in their online journal, etc. Granted, at a certain age you should stop censoring content (say, around 13-15 or so if you're confident in their maturity) but you should still talk things through with them.
Leonard Sax is a physician and a research psychologist, and has been practicing 20 years. The material in his books draws substantially from peer-reviewed journals.
His thesis is that there are five factors working against boys these days, one of which is video games.
From http://www.boysadrift.com/:
Video Games. Studies show that some of the most popular video games are disengaging boys from real-world pursuits.
There are four other factors as well. This book, and the predecessor, Gender Matters, are well worth reading. They have changed the way I raise my children.
I don't know what all the fuss is about - I slapped a Playstation controller into my toddlers chubby little fingers, right next to the cigarette and whiskey he was drinking. Then we went out and got matching tattoos. He drove.
There is no shortage of stupidity and cruelty in the world.
If you're trying to develop imagination then a blank piece of paper is too hard - instead of exercising their imagination fully they'll just go for the easy options: a face, house, car, you know the sort of thing. It's like saying "write a program" without a framework of what you want the program to accomplish.
There's a great book I've seen called "The Art Book" IIRC, though I can't find it at the mo', with part pictures on each page and a suggestion. of what to draw - some more abstract than others. This pushes the artist to create images with which they aren't over familiar and which will cause them to be more creative and possibly even have to research their images (a hippo in a tutu, is the tutu just the flouncy bit or does it have an upper and straps?).
Sure, even that book has a blank page or two ("complete the drawing of a chamaleon", I just made that one up btw).
i've been playing videogames since i was 3 years old and nothing has happened to me.
Actually, the cinematic nature of Metal Gear Solid is exactly what would lend itself perfectly to a movie. In fact Hideo Kojima has already been shopping around for a studio and a director to create a film based on the first Metal Gear Solid Game.
I noticed the first woman's quote saying that video games are not imaginative. Well when I was young my parents tried to limit my game playing and a few times even banned me from it when I started "acting out" video game scenarios in my normal play with my friends. I would be jumping down the street like Mario pretending to shoot fireballs, or engaging in simulated Mega Man battles with my buddies. Looking back I can see that I had two distinct creative outlets, playing games and playing outside, its just that the two melded together for me. Creativity from the video games was blending with my play life. Now that I am a young adult I am still pretty much obsessed with video games, but I am looking to make a career out of it by using my music and audio engineering talents/schooling to contribute to the industry. If anything I think video games became the thing that I was passionate about as well as something I could fuel my other passions into.
As others have said, the age depends on the parents. My parents allowed me to play games at my aunts house when I was about 3 or 4 and I'm 22 now and still play games today. I have a nephew that is 6 now and he started playing games about a year ago. He can play Mario 64 like there is no tomorrow and he can beat his mother at Pokemon, shes not a heavy gamer though. I have two 13 year old nieces that play Guitar Hero, Crash Bandicoot and Zelda. According to one of my nieces, the 6 year old nephew can play Guitar Hero at least a little bit. And I have a 15 year old nephew that plays some games that are rated M. I have told his parents about some of the stuff in the games, they have seen some of the stuff in them and they seem to be fine with it so you know that is their decision. Video games can help with hand-eye coordination, solving puzzles and many other things. If your thinking about letting your child play video games, get something that is for their age group. You don't want a 5 year old playing GTA or Mortal Kombat. Parents need to read up on video game ratings and get involved with what their children play. You don't have to play the game with them just find out what kind of games they play and read up on it. And don't let your kids be controlled by video games. Make them go outside and play or something. Playing video games used to be something not a lot of people did and now just about everyone has picked up a controller at some time in their life.
not only solving puzzles and eye hand coordination, but also in memory and spatial cognition. think of the translation the mind has to make to make sense of a 3d world through a 2d window remembering what they saw when it's already out of view. What about remembering where your save house in in GTA by reading the map or recognizing buildings and intersections.
I know adults that get directions mixed up but my children know the directions of the compass and that heading south going left means that you'll be headed east.
Of course video games aren't a be all end all for learning, but I think that they require a quickening of the senses and logic processes that few other activities can stimulate effectively. To me this is very obvious, why others don't see this is disturbing to me. It's almost like racism or bigotry where opinions are formed devoid of rational thinking.
That being said, my children have been playing video games from the age of 2 when they could just start to understand what was going on and hold the controllers in their tiny hands. Seeing violence in video games has given us opportunities to discuss the difference between fantasy and reality and what type of real world consequences would arise from the actions played out in video games. Many of these conversations wouldn't have happened had it not been for violence in video games. How many parents talk to their children about car jacking before they are old enough to drive much less ever?
Sure my kids (now 8 and 9 years old) know all the swear words and even understand the meanings and origins behind them. I'm not offended by the words and better yet my kids understand who not to swear around and the religious stigma that distorts mere words into something that makes people offended. No we're not a religious household and we view religions as something that poisons rational thinking. I had to pull my kids out of boy/cub scouts to keep them away from the Christian programming that takes place in that organization which although it's discouraging that they don't get to do that stuff it's better than having them assimilated.
anyhow, anyone who thinks video games don't stretch the imagination obviously doesn't have an imagination themselves.
"The Most Fun Possible on 4 wheels" is at SunBuggy in Las Vegas
I wouldn't go so far as to call my family a "gamer family", but Super Mario Galaxy has baecome quite a social game for us. My 5-year-old sister loves playing in the "Co-Star" mode, and can even manage as the first player to some extent. (She panics at the sight of bosses, though.)
As soon as they develop the coordination and attention span to move a mouse and focus on what they are doing. I taught my newphew how to use a computer by playing Reader Rabbit, and Freddy Fish. *EVERYTHING* was clickable and he had fun just watch the reactions someone the game objects gave. it also gave good quality time because he would sit in my lap and use the mouse, and I would point to where he should click. My nephew also enjoyed watching me play Mario 64, he often wanted to play but would end up dying, and then ask for my help. He watched me play for hours. I believe he bvenefited because he is unafraid of technology, and knows he won't break something just by touch a button on a computer.
I also think it is alright to show kids TV and play video games, but you have to be really careful. Some kids are just flat not interested. Others will get sucked right in. We started allowing our 2 year old to start watching some kids dvds, and we found with a couple, after they were finished, he was less responsive for a while, like in a daze. So we cut back. Not a very difficult concept. Watching games and tv can be a form of inspiration, just like reading books. There is no 'right age' for anything. You have to experiment with everything, watch your kid, stop if it leads to bad things, etc.
My daughter is now six, but she has had her own computer since 2-1/2, playing problem-solving and other types of educational games. She types as well as her grandfather and considers her computer just another toy or appliance that can look up anything with my help. She plays some, gets bored and often leaves it alone for days at a time because it's no big deal; we don't ration it out, just encourage moderation and making good healthy choices in life. Same goes for junk food and fast food. More often than not, she will choose an apple or other healthy snack but on the occasion that she asks for something less desirable I quietly offer her a small portion and may mention that it's ok to have a little. She's way more fit and has a better attitude than I ever did, having been forced to drink gallons of milk and clean my plate at every meal...
Children play games all the time. What's so different about video games that makes them unacceptable?
I am a parent of a very curious 3 year old boy. I pretty much grew up with games (atari 2600). As an active gamer, I can honestly say it would be like torture for my son to not play games. It has become a family activity, and he likes games very much. Its not like I play GTA in front of the boy, but he's walked in on me setting up Quake and UT. I don't let him play, or play in front of him. He mostly like simple games like most of the Pop cap games and some spooky puzzle games (7th guest). the game he really likes is gcompris, A linux learning game, and he even prefers it to all the other games. I think children naturally are attracted to interactive fun stuff, TV is just too boring to him, he won't watch it more than 15 minutes before finding something more interactive to do, wether its playing a game or torturing our cats. Plus he has pretty good hand eye coordination, can use a mouse better than my grandmother, and has only stressed the fact that backups are important. My child has the option to play games often, and actively chooses not to. He would much rather play in his sand box or build with legos(the big kind), I guess it has a lot to do with the personality of your child.
42.
...for what it's worth, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy has already been made into a good game. Some would even call it a great game.
//also thinks Metal Gear could be turned into a totally awesome movie, but lacks supporting evidence
(Although to be fair, it was a text adventure; a genre that's all but dead, and happens to be a lot more book-like than any other type of game.)
So if the parents play video games (probably more likely than not these days), the kids will at least "play" that they play video games starting when they are 1 to 2 years old. About one year later, they will be able to actually play the games. I don't see any reason to prevent them from playing real video games at that point.
If the parents doesn't play video games, the kids won't be interested for a couple of years more, when they get playmates who play video games. I don't see any reason to introduce them to games before that, nor to stop them when they ask for it.
For pre-schoolers, you choose the games. For primary schoolers, they probably want to choose the games, but you should play the games as well. After that, general advice is more harmful than helpful. It depends too much on you and the kid.
My little one, under 6, loves playing the old Humungous Enterainment titles, Pajama Sam, Freddi Fish and Putt-Putt. Also loves the Find and Seeks from Reflexive and the old I-Spy from the 90's. Today's games all about grpahics and so little gameplay, kids are notoriously difficult to please. They see right through the glitz and want something to challange them, especially creatively. Little one has sat in front to Tux Paint for over an hour with a mouse and stylus just doodling, much like she does on paper, would have sat there longer but a max of an hour a day on the machine and a max of 1 hour TV a day. I always check the games myself, when she's not about to make sure I can leave her with them, nothing unpleasant too scary ( as muggins has to get up and deal with the nightmares! ), sometimes she wants help and someone to play them with other times she wants to be left alone to fathom it out herself. When you have kids you have to be adaptable to want they want, bend here and there but other times you lay down the law.
Some people just think they can leave kids alone all the time and they will simply pick stuff up, like manners, hygene, etc., they don't you have to get involved most of the time, but sometimes you back off and leave them to it, when you know it's safe to do so.
It's called being a responsible parent, something that is sadly amiss today.
Windows guys please stop pissing on everyone and the Linux guys stop pissing in the wind, hoping to hit Windows guys!
We all know how anal american society is about this. Get over it.
I'm in the pro-gamer crowd, but with limits. I know there are some people that believe introducing your kids to gaming is OK right up to (or even past!) the point of live birth, but I firmly believe that it's just immoral to not have it done by the third trimester.
Since this is a technical discussion about literacy, it isn't OT to point out that mediums speak to the dead, while media are forms of mass communication. OK, maybe they aren't that different, then.
Regarding your main point, I think convergence is coming down the road in about 20 years, as per The Diamond Age. The only reason video games can't rival books for depth is that print media are thousands of years old; the geometry of book publishing was established 500 years ago, it's a mature form. Give gaming/simulation 50 years, it will be a superior learning method, and possibly a superior art.
Damn those pesky terrorists
The correct age is 2. Before that, most children will not be able to work the controls for even the simplest games.
Now, if you had asked about what video games... that's another story. But if the question is merely, "at what age should they play games," I don't think there's a lower limit. Some games which present a cynical or violent outlook should be reserved for a time when the child understands the difference between reality and fantasy. There are also questions of complexity and how frustrated a young child will become playing a game that contains complexity that is beyond them (Myst comes to mind).
Both of my kids have been solving games like Putt-Putt since they were 3. They love them and they learn good skills doing it. They have educational games they play a lot too, things with math and other puzzles. Its all good, so BLAH to the "experts"
This is a strange question. When are kids ready for any game? The answer is when they know how to play. Yep that could mean everything you take it to be. Ultimately, all games are educational. Some are just minimally so. The real question that should be asked is whether a kid is ready for xyz video game. We can't answer that.
My point is that video games are not fundamentally different than scrabble or monopoly or baseball.
When's a kid ready for scrabble? Answer: When they can read.
When's a kid ready for Grand Theft Auto ? Answer: probably never.
I'm not sure how I got onto Slashdot, but it's not what I am interested in. How do I remove my name from the list? They do not post such a thing: very unusual. Thank you. Lee
First of all there are many types of games out there. I think if a game is educational, mind stimulating, and not too addictive, why not let them play whenever they are able to? Not all games involve blowing peoples heads off, there are plenty of "educational" games that kids can use to expand their minds, and encourage their intellectual growth.
Technology Forum
D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
I'm a pretty big supporter of the "if you can then do" mantra, with of course certain limitations and exceptions (eg sex, a guy should probably wait til atleast 13-14 before sticking it somewhere :P).
Anyways I started tampering with the good ol computer my dad had when I was 3, playing some of those old useless games, my real intro came when I was five and my dad bought me a commodore 64. Playing with that, playing games on the PC(PQ, SQ, Larry, digdug, digger) and watching american cartoons like he-man, transformers, M.A.S.K and ulysses made me talk and write english rather fluent before I was the age of 7 and english is a secondary language for me.
Today kids get everything dubbed, games take no intelligence to operate and students are shit at english and even shit at their own mothertongue writing horrid SMS-language and what not.
The problem isn't that kids start to young, it's that they do dumbed down shit. I'm starting to sound like my dad but atleast when I was young I had to learn another language, write batchfiles and was taught basic before the age of 10. It's when you're young you learn fast =)
When are kids old enough to read books? Watch movies? What is so different about video games? It depends on the content.
I've seen a lot of "let me raise my own kids, shutthefuckup!" kind of responses. I just want to remind you that while parenting is a very personal and deeply pride-inducing endevour, you're kids also have to interact with the rest society, including my kids. It takes a village... people, and that's more evident today than ever, with young adults unable to communicate effectively with each other and their managers, friends, and spouses.
You're kids aren't just your responsibility, they're ALL of ours. So, some semblence of commonality in our society might help our children to grow up to be more productive adults. If our entire culture is made up of hill-billys standing the driveways with shotguns yelling, "get off my lawn!", then we're never going to leave any kind of legacy; collectively, or individually.
Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
You know, Hitler once referred to electronics as a Jewish science. Just sayin.. oh yeah, in before Godwin's law.
4 is perhaps a little young, but kids seem quite adept at figuring the things out given some access and opportunity :-
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/india/thestory.html