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Apple's New MacBooks Have Built-In Copy Protection
raque writes "Appleinsider is reporting that the new MacBooks/MacBookPros have built-in copy protection. Quote: 'Apple's new MacBook lines include a form of digital copy protection that will prevent protected media, such as DRM-infused iTunes movies, from playing back on devices that aren't compliant with the new priority protection measures.' Ars Technica is also reporting on the issue. Is this the deal they had to make to get NBC back? Is this a deal breaker for Apple or will fans just ignore it to get their hands on the pretty new machines? Is this a new opportunity for Linux? And what happened to Jobs not liking DRM?"
Built-in copy protection is a bag-of-hurt.
Sincerely,
Mac Fan who wants Blu-ray
I don't think that's ever happened to me before.
The Invisible Hand of the Free Market is what punches workers in the nuts.
"priority" You sure that was the word you were looking for?
I don't buy any videos from iTunes: I prefer to rip my own.
in order to get Blu-Ray playback licensing
Monstar L
Is this the deal they had to make to get NBC back?
It seems likely enough to me. I guess I have no proof either way, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least to find that this was NBC's idea.
Is this a deal breaker for Apple?
No.
Will fans just ignore it to get their hands on the pretty new machines?
Yes. Just like they always do.
Is this a new opportunity for Linux?
No, since it won't hurt Apple.
And what happened to Jobs not liking DRM?
Nothing. That was a lie then, and is still a lie. Apple puts DRM in their flagship product, and you actually believe them when they spout bullshit about disliking DRM?
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
If you remove the cloud of the the hipster-doofus lovefest for Apple you realize that Apple only has one obligation as a publicly traded company
Making a profit for shareholders
Why anyone is surprised that Apple (and Google) act like real companies is always a surprise to me.
Apple needs to turn a profit and make concessions to satisfy stockholders.
I wonder if this will help jolt people towards reality: Apple's just like Microsoft. The only real difference is that Apple makes somewhat better gear.
Oh, Steve Jobs is still an asshole.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, watch it -- I'm huge!
..it's part of the special OS X version sent along with these specific machines. It is not present in the other ordinary versions.
I don't think you can buy a mid to high end vid card these days that doesn't have HDCP baked in; I'm not surprised.
Note that I didn't say I was enthralled, just not surprised.
Blacker than my baby girl's stare. Black like the veil that the muslimina wear. Black like the planet that they fear...
defectivebydesign? It's DRM right? That's bad right? Don't we HAVE to pronounce it defective?
Sorry about the mess.
will fans just ignore it
No. They'll start explaining why it's actually an advantage for the user.
If you don't buy crippled content in the first place, it's just wasted, unused, hardware.
I wonder why consumers don't seem to care about this stuff. Personally, I refuse to buy something that I can't guarantee that will play my stuff. This should end up being a huge pain in the neck for mac users.
Do these guys just lay awake a night trying to think up new and different ways to screw things up? They'll never rest until all media is pay-per-view.
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
For someone like me who has a Dell 20" screen that supports HDCP, but also an Apple 20" screen that does not, we're expected to unplug one screen every time we want to watch something protected in this manner? Get real!
a digital rights management company masquerading as a fashion business.
Steve, whose care for his children passes understanding, knew that many buyers of new macbooks yearn in their hearts to purchase new Apple monitors to go with them. He knew further that for the many crying out, oppressed by old Apple monitors that they already owned, following their desire would be difficult.
And thus, by his hand, a gift was bestowed. His people would, with Him as a purveyor of protected premium content by day and by night, be led away from the old and to the new monitor of their desire.
Vista has the same kind of so-called "protection". Just so we're clear on that. Thanks.
In other, unrelated news, it should be easy to crack. The ghost of Bruce would also like to say "Software copy protection doesn't work"... and since this is a download... well then. So there you go. Nothing to see here, move along.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
This article is totally misleading. It's just HDCP. The media has to be HDCP aware in the first place.
If you don't by defective DRM laden media, then you do not have a problem.
In some ways, this is actually a GOOD THING. Now the hardware can actually communicate with other media devices that demand a HDCP connection.
So to SUM UP, all the PIRATED MEDIA WILL STILL PLAY.
This is all part of DisplayPort, the display connection. Like HDMI, the digital display connection for HDTV gear, DisplayPort includes an end-to-end encryption mechanism. (Take a look at HDMI/HDCP.)
The end-to-end secure data path is something the HD content providers insist on.
I was going to get my wife a MBP for Christmas, but this is a deal breaker. If they really want iTunes HD videos to sell well this season, they shouldn't make it dependent on having a HDCP compatible display device. I'm not going to buy it and just hope that my TV will work with it. Actually, it wouldn't matter since I don't have an HDTV, so I wouldn't buy HD iTunes videos. So maybe it's not a deal breaker, but it sure is making me think twice.
I guess the good news is that this gives us all a legitimately legal reason to defeat the latest copy protection schemes on iTunes. Research for interoperability is allowed under the DMCA; however, it appears that exemption only applies to computer programs. Is there a copyright lawyer who knows whether an iTunes video would count in this regard? Alternatively could you use the exemption as it applies to the actual iTunes application, since that surely qualifies as a program?
If you remove the cloud of the the hipster-doofus hatefest for Microsoft you realize that Microsoft only has one obligation as a publicly traded company
Making a profit for shareholders
Why anyone is surprised that Microsoft (and Apple) act like real companies is always a surprise to me.
Microsoft needs to turn a profit and make concessions to satisfy stockholders.
--
This statement will work for future MS-bashing articles, right?
Money.
This is the same technology used by the non-free HDTV you get out of your cable box and on BluRay discs. There is a requirement that every device in the playback path support HDCP in order for the video to display. The key difference that makes Apple jerks are that they are not exempting analog displays from this requirement. Previously, HDCP support was only required for displaying video over a DVI or HDMI connection, any analog format wasn't affected. This is because of the image quality degradation caused by an analog signal, the key point of HDCP is preventing digital copies.
for the Apple TV Monitor... with HDCP.
How frickin' disingenuous. It's not the "deal they had to make to get NBC back", but rather the "deal" they had to make to allow HDCP output.
/., you should already know that.
And if you read
This is NOTHING like the all-pervasive DRM that infests Visturd(TM) at every turn.
And if they DIDN'T allow HDCP-"protected" content to be played, the people would whine about "Where's the Hi-Def"?
So, please tell me, just how does Apple keep up with (icky) "modern" video standards, and NOT do what it takes to keep from being sued to death by the MAFIAA?
You'll note that, unlike similar apps in Vista, there don't seem to be widespread reports about Final Cut (or even 3rd party apps like Premiere) not being able to read/edit/write HD content.
So, as I said, this seems to be confined to as little of QuickTime and OS X as possible.
Playback protection is part of a strategy of copy protection, but it's not the same thing.
Playback protection can hurt me even if I'm *not* trying to copy the media in question, which is my main objection to it.
Copy protection is arguably more legitimate, but it does depend on the specific copyright laws of your jurisdiction.
Up here in Canada the fair use doctrine suggest that it *should* be legal for me to rip a copy of a DVD for my personal playback in another medium (it's roughly the same as making an audio cassette copy of a vinyl record.)
I'm generally of the view that the companies that market media products should focus on improving the quality of those products in order to encourage us to buy them, rather than branding us as criminals. Then again, I still buy music whereas some people seem to not do that at all anymore.
Skot Nelson music is my saviour / i was maimed by rock and roll
Did you read the fucking article?
We're talking about HDCP.
What does ripping CDs have to do with playing video over DisplayPort?
myselfmusic
I AM NOT A THIEF! DO NOT TREAT ME AS SUCH!!!!
I will NEVER buy any product that is so encumbered!
DRM? No thanks, I'll just get it somewhere else...
Outside of Slashdot's readership, nobody cares about DRM.
There are vanishingly few "screwed over" customers "angry" about HDCP. Most people never even see the "restrictions" on their "freedom." They subscribe to cable, buy their BluRay players, buy their disks, and it all works just fine. If they didn't, then these stories would be in Time Magazine (or, better yet, TV Guide) and not on Slashdot.
Displayed at its best. Look, DRM does only one thing: stop people from purchasing digital media. I bought a CD recently, not because I wanted to hear what was on it, but because I had already downloaded it and decided I want to support the artist because it was good. Most PC games I ever purchase are ones I've actually downloaded and finished already, but I felt like I had to support the devs. Sony and Apple will continue to fight a battle they cannot win.
Now class, pay attention, this has nothing to do with MUSIC dork!
buy your movies from Amazon. .....or buy the actual DVD and rip away.
There fixed that for ya!
The more I hear about Apple, the more I like Microsoft because they did the same thing years ago, thus proving they have a better understanding of the business.
I didn't really mind when Apple locked their hardware. After all, it's their hardware. I didn't really mind when Apple locked their iPods. After all, I could use a Creative Zen. I didn't mind when they refused to remove the iPod-only DRM on ITMS. After all, I prefer buying CDs and ripping them myself, since it's almost the same price, with virtually no hassle or copy "protection". But now, one of the best OS on the market will feature built-in, OS-level DRM? Fuck that. I won't be buying an Apple any time soon, which is a shame because I was planning to do just that with the Chrismas money.
So Microsoft is barely starting to play ball. Apple is locking it's products more and more, and locking the users of the products. Google starts forking Open Source projects to proprietary code (OpenID). The IT world is becoming more and more confusing.
I think it's time to read In the Beginning was the Command Line again.
if MacBooks have copy-protecion now, does this mean I'll no longer be able to copy and upload them to Pirate Bay?
...I never buy DRM infested music.
You have to consider all factors when buying a computer, or anything.
I will still stick to Macs because they have the best OS.
And I will continue to not buy DRM infested music.
Please go back to Digg. Slashdot is not better than Digg because of the timeliness of the stories. Slashdot is better than Digg because of the user community.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
I can't see why people why moderate this as a troll. It simply isn't.
Of course, "troll" generally means "I don't like it" around here, but hell, isn't that what a discussion board like this is for?
As for Steve Jobs being an asshole, if that email is real, then yes, he qualifies as an asshole.
guilty as charged. I didn't read it.
Would you please just STFU about Google already, you little karma whore..
Below are the parents previous posts...
and finally, from your own words...
Why don't you eat them and STFU about Google in stories nothing to do with them.
I'm even more shocked that people pay for content. I would be glad to pay a reasonable price for media if I could control it how I wanted. But if they won't allow me that courtesy then I've no intention on paying for stuff I can get easier and cheaper.
There'll be a hack released within a week. Hell, I wouldn't even be surprised if there's a hack released same day.
But the video in tfa is no blu-ray.
Yet another example of the grip proprietary corporations will continue to impose on their users.
So if this is just an issue with the ITMS, then it will probably not affect my choice to buy an Apple. It will just mean that Amazon gets my music and movie business. If there actually comes a time where I try to play some media, and I get an error, then yes, I will look for other option.
Of course, since MS has created a market where most OEM created cheap, ugly, non functional, and generally useless machines, there options are few and far between. Apple took a *nix and built an OS out of it. As reported here, HP was very unhappy about some Vista decisions. HP also has experience with *nix. HP also has experience with building extremely reliable, functional, and exquisite machines. It is a pity that they no longer have the spirit of innovation to build the ultimate HP-UX laptop, instead of just being the lapdog for MS.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Vista sucked beyond imagination, Windows 7 is Vista with a different name and Apple is playing again ad again the bad guy card, both software and hardware wise. What else does Linux need to get some serious consideration among average users?
This is not a problem since I do not buy video products anymore.
1) I thought that it was permissible under the HDCP spec for the video to be played downscaled to 480p? If so, why isn't this happening? If not, what does Vista do/when did that change?
2) Especially without wall-to-wall TPM, why on earth are we worrying about the display as a digital hole? Scraping frames as they pass over the display connection seems about the _worst_ way imaginable to rip a protected stream. There are issues with audio/video sync, dropped frames and recompression that are all avoided by getting at the decrypted but not decoded stream - something that simply can't be controlled without TPM (and probably not with TPM, either).
I love macs, but I've completely refused to buy ANYTHING with HDCP, and won't buy any new macs until I know NONE of my purchase goes to support technology that limits my LEGAL RIGHTS to make use of my purchased goods.
Kiss my ass, Steve. I don't need your sell-out products.
Vista compatible computers have had this for years. It's called HDCP and if you want to view HD content at an actual HD resolution, you need to have HDCP compatible hardware. Apple is obviously readying themselves to start offering Blu-Ray video, probably at Macworld this January...
Next month?
Early next year?
It's really kind of stunning how stupid they think people are.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
What's so amazing about this? Apple has used business practices that make Microsoft look like angels, the truth is Apple likes Closed Source, Locked Devices and DRM even more than Microsoft does, and their hardware generally is a piece of shit but looks cool, and in the eyes of Macintosh evangelist their hardware failing is just normal...
Could this be the first step to locking down OS X? Put a piece of silicon in each computer and the installation disk won't spin unless the chip responds correctly to a series of challenges. (Something similar to what Lexmark did between their printers and ink cartridges?) It would mean the end of Pystar.
"The ghost of Bruce would also like to say. . ."
Which Bruce would that be? Off the top of my head, possible candidates would be Bruce Schneier and Bruce Perens, but, uhh, I believe they are both still alive?
Well, I think I can safely speak for all mac fans when I say...Arrr! Run up the Jolly Roger! If these lilly-livered landlubbers think they can saddle me with DRM laden crap, I'll get me multi-media from other sources besides iTunes.
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
"Fuck it," said Jobs, "we're evil."
http://rocknerd.co.uk
Apple computers have had it for ages too. Take the older MacBook Pro machines with 8600M GT, it has HDCP support.
What is new?
Without seeming to flame (flame mode if you like), we've had experience of locked down platform with Apple's iPhone. Now Apple join Microsoft in having a locked down OS for media playback, nobody can feel smug or superior (apart from Linux users).
Linux users can feel superior for not being able to legally play HD Blu-ray titles or for not being able to buy HD video from iTunes??
Yes Linux users can use software employing AACS and BD+ hacks, but so can Mac OS X and Vista users - even on HDCP enabled hardware. So what's the advantage of Linux regarding this now again?
We've discovered that well-heeled snoops using sophisticated radio equipment can, from a non-trivial distance, pick off the EM signals coming out of your monitor and reconstruct the image you're viewing. HDCP would thwart this, protecting the user's privacy. So HDCP can be seen as a pro-user security measure.
By re-casting HDCP as a system security feature, it then becomes obvious where control of HDCP should lie: In the user's hands. If HDCP were under my control, and didn't cost any extra in terms of CPU cycles or power consumption, I'd turn it on and leave it that way. Extra privacy for free!
But more importantly, by re-casting HDCP as a data security feature, applications attempting to manipulate it are correctly seen as hostile. If J-Random-Videoplayer tries to flip the system HDCP settings one way or another, they should get smacked down with EPERM and go no further. Even better, a dialog should pop up and say, "An unprivileged application is attempting to discover the current settings of display encryption (HDCP). This is a system security setting which should be accessed only by administrative programs. How should the request be handled? ()Report as enabled ()Report as disabled ()Report current setting ()Reject request"
Discuss :-).
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
I'm a mac user. I've used Linux for 11 years now, I've used Windows back in the day for StarCraft or when it was neccesary for work (and on my jobs workstation) and I use OS X today whenever I want zero-fuss integration and need to run the Flash IDE to draw up some RIA components. I still use Debian and Ubuntu aswell, however.
I'm typing this on my Mac Mini with Tiger - with the pricey but neat new aluminum mac KB attached - and my last computer purchase was the famous classic 12" G4 macbook, trusted subnotebook of hackers and geeks all around the world. The fluorescent light needs longer time to fully light up, but after 5 years it still is a piece of integrated hard- and software that I love to use on a regular basis. In a nutshell: I'm a computer expert and I like my macs and I can name solid reasons why I do.
Apple has a rock-solid multiplier in me, as I - as most geeks - am the opinion-leader in all things concerning IT and computers for at least 50 people that know me well enough to know my profession. I can inmediately think of at least 3 people who have gotten macs also due to largely my influence on their decision.
That aside I can only say: Get pissy with me and I'm right back to Linux on x86 only. As soon as I have to fuss around with media not playing on my computers I'm gone, mac mini and 13" unibody MacBook be damned. I'd rather fuss around with half-finished OSS projects or crappy printer integration on a dell laptop that looks and handles like a piece of shit than having some DRM scheme wasting my time. If Apple even thinks about pressing the lock-in game, I'm gone and I will stop recommending Apple instantly. And I'll start discouraging people from buying them.
My 2 Euros.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Microsoft only has one obligation as a publicly traded company .. Making a profit for shareholders
This is so much ignorant shit and it's repeated so often like a stupid mantra that it's worth ripping it apart for once.
A) Microsoft has a huge range of obligations which come from being a company. They have to follow minimum pay laws. They have to pay their taxes. They have to pay their electricity bills. They have to report more or less honestly. They have to follow customer contracts even if they turn out to be badly written and unprofitable. None of these is directly about making a profit.
B) Microsoft is a public listed corporation. Most corporations have a strict definition of what they do ("develops and sells software to customers") which is not directly related to making a profit. The reason for this is that investors have to decide which companies they want to invest in and this means they need to know what each company does. As long as Microsoft does what it says it's supposed to do, no legal action can be taken against the board. If they fail to make a profit, the shareholders may, and are even likely to, change the board. However that is their choice and is in no way an obligation. Looking at their SEC statements, the only thing they have to do is make sure that they are more or less true at the time they are made and that any changes from their plan that they make are justified in some way. There's no need to make a profit, especially if they said they might not.
C) Short term profit has repeatedly been proven to be not the best way to long term profit. If you want profit in the long term it's often more important to protect rights, reputation and loyalty than make an immediate profit. Microsoft has always shown a clear commitment to this strategy in, for example, always making sure that they fully control software even where it would be cheaper not to.
D) Many other companies regularly operate with better ethics than Microsoft and yet few of them are punished for that.
=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
...FOR MCCAIN!!!!!!
I'm thinking the easiest way around it is to just download a copy. Seriously, wtf, people - do you not like having customers?
I damn near gave up buying media of any kind because of copy protection, and so I do without. Yay Amazon MP3 store to the rescue. But I'm getting completely sick of this.
It's time to push Congress for a Consumer's Digital Purchases Bill of Rights that forces compatibility. If you want DRM so bad, it's your job to make it work.
File this under "depressing but true."
I've tried HD downloads of Heros, and I can play them back in HD just fine over a VGA connection from a Mac mini. It might be only the new systems support this, or perhaps only movies and not TV shows...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
For all those slashdoters that work at apple: Make sure you let your Marketing department know that this has cost them a long time customer.
I have a powerbook G4 and I recently bought a mac mini for my wife.
I was planning to get a new Macbook for Xmas.
However hearing about this has changed my mind. I will not let a company dictate what my fair use rights are. I'm disappointed, its so short sighted on Apples part. Technology companies should stick to technology and let our courts and elected members of government worry about our rights and rights of content producers (admittedly they haven't done a good job either).
I moved away from Windows because of this (that and stability issues). I know from the Windows media player 10 or higher behaviour that it won't let me play is my own content (I created it, I own the copyright) and home videos over a projector...
It's bad enough when I have to change software, in this case an open source player (VLC) solved the problem for me. If the "crippleware" is OS and hardware based the only thing at that point is to chose an uncrippled product.
It's too bad. Apple does do a good job with hardware etc.. I've been very satisfied with the Powerbook G4 I have.
I will now be looking at a nice small laptop with an AMD CPU running Linux (probably Ubuntu). If anyone has any suggestions let me know. :)
Thanks.
----- "Profanity is the one language that all programmers understand."
Vista has DRM background processes that if disabled, leave the OS in reduced functionality mode. OS X has no such processes, the only thing checking would be the video player.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
That's just not cricket.
www.20c.co.nz Gaming the Way it Used to Be
It needs to be usable by average users.....
... will be EXACTLY like 1984... Twenty four years. Oh well. They had a good run.
DRM would already be dead if not for Apple.
Entirely inaccurate.
The stories and info posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only fools would take it as fact.
Apple has, and continues to be, the largest supporter of DRM out there.
Regardless of whether I believe Steve Jobs or not, you're talking out of your ass.
Microsoft has far stronger DRM support in Windows, including using encryption within the kernel to keep device drivers from spying on each other and including "tilt switches" to disable parts or all of the OS if necessary to enforce this, and Windows video cards have supported HDCP for at least a couple of years. Apple is late to the table, here.
And Apple is small potatoes. If every Mac in the world was magically mutated to support HDCP, it would still be a small fraction of the HDCP-compliant devices out there. Probably even a small fraction of the HDCP-compliant computer systems.
Apples not important enough to be the biggest supporter of ANYTHING, let alone DRM.
I have AROS and it's fun to play with, but I wouldn't seriously recommend it. Most software hasn't been ported to AROS, the situation is far worse than for GNU/Linux, and it doesn't look quite as good as the KDE/Gnome. A lot of stuff simply hasn't been done yet. Nonetheless, it's kind of fun to play with and relive that Amiga feel.
Oh - they are screwing their customers to make a profit for their shareholders. I suppose it's alright then. Sorry for complaining.
If that's their definition of "legal", then fuck legality.
Let's stop dilly-dallying and just change "-1: Overrated" to "-1: Disagree" or "-1: Doesn't Subscribe to Groupthink".
Is it only me or are there more people who remember Job's blog about evil drm.
only to turn 180 degrees after some time
http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/
Apple fans ignore so much already. Why would you think that they're going to be bothered by more DRM?
No.
I am a believer of momentum and curves.
The way that works (correct me if I'm wrong here) is that each title has a "title key" (randomly generated exclusively for that release) that is used to encrypt the content.
Sony has created a set of "vendor keys", lets say 1000 of them, to give out to anyone that wants to make a bluray player and agrees to play by their rules.
When a movie is pressed to bluray, the movie's titlekey is encrypted separately 1000 times, once for each vendor key, and is stored on the disc in a title key dictionary. As long as you know at least one vendor key, you can retrieve the title key. Now after apple signs on the dotted DMCA line, they are assigned and given one of the vendor keys. (lets say it's key #256) 256's private key is placed on the bluray player firmware apple ships with. The player uses that key to decrypt copy #256 of the title key from the title key dictionary on the disc. It can't decrypt any of the other 999 copes since it only has private key for #256.
Lets say the firmware is hacked.
Once sony figures out that key #256 is being used by a hacked player, they "revoke" it. This means that every title released after this point will no longer have an entry in the title key dictionary for key # 256. So anyone with an older apple bluray player will not be able to view the new movie because it cannot get the title key from the disc.
Every disc they have that they bought up to the point of revocation will continue to work indefinitely on the older player, because the old discs will all still have a title key in position 256 in their title key dictionary.
At that point if apple wants to get back into the game, the RIAA will force them to strengthen the security in their player firmware to make it more difficult to hack, before they give them a new vendor key. Apple will push this out as a firmware update and once again all their bluray players will work with all titles, old and new.
If it gets hacked again, it's possible sony will just say too bad so sad and refuse to give them another key regardless of what apple is willing to do. At that point all the players with the vulnerable firmware will cease forever to work with new releases.
I know I'm missing several layers of other nasties such as the bluray player vm, but this is the part that's relevant here. Sony can't remotely brick or otherwise damage your bluray player, and cannot prevent it from being able to play discs that it already can play. They can only prevent your player from working on discs released after they decide to drop the hammer.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
In the eternal words of maxwell smart... "missed it by that much!"
I was literally reviewing my order when this popped up in the RSS feed. my mouse was about --| |-- that far away from the checkout button.
They just lost a customer.
Chinese cheap "All-Players".
You know... like those DivX/DVD players we have today for $30 a piece.
Only reason those are not popping out on every corner is the still too high price of hardware and well... plain old DVDs being good enough for most people.
Which, again, is a part of the reason why BD hardware is still too expensive.
Personally - screw the player.
Someone give us a decent and affordable BD Writer.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Now OS X has Vista features (which haven't been activated yet)!
I'd like to hear it, HAL. Sing it for me.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
we share your idea.
http://www.huayi-wood.com/
...I wish I did.
So that I could stop. Out of protest and such.
Alas, I don't even posses a single i-Thingie. Unless we count that white USB cable I "borrowed" from work.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
I wouldn't really put the blame on Apple, but more on the media studios. I mean Apple supports LGBT & anti-DRM when you include iTunes Plus. If you look back at Napster they had it going until the music studio's started to run up there butt and now sharing media freely has gone underground. Ever since then publishers & studios have enforced DRM onto everyone. Telling us not to steal DVD's on a DVD we brought! There making there own customers (FYI us) the criminals. Even if we brought something made by them. Yet its sharing files such as movie, music, ect, freely, that has made there customers want to buy the full album or whatever else you think of. Which is why I don't blame Apple for this.
I've been buying Apple products for years. I've been a cemented customer who's never seriously considered non-apple hardware as my main workstation since I used the OS X beta and was hooked. I think people who dismiss Apple's products as merely shinier and better looking either haven't looked at them closely enough or are terminally retarded in terms of their ability to consider product merits outside of their favored spec gestalt. I find Apple's stuff generally (not always, but generally) more convenient and reliable. I'm certain I qualify as a fan, even if I might not make the fanbois cut.
But restrictions like this one absolutely do curb my inclination to buy.
As an example, I've avoided an iPhone because of the tethering and application restrictions (not to mention a desire to avoid being locked to *any* cell phone carrier, let alone AT&T).
And I already don't like a number of choices made with the new MacBooks (in particular, the fact they're only available with glossy screens). Adding DRM to that means I'm simply uninterested -- the upgraded specs might be nice, maybe even very nice in a year or two, but let's face it, modern machines are already ridiculously powerful, and if I'm going to see artificial restrictions and annoying features like extra glare, I'd probably get more utility out of maintaining/upgrading my current MacBook pro than buying a new one in 2-3 years.
I can't speak for the whole of Apple's market. My preferences may not be typical. But there's at least one customer out there who will stop buying if they go far enough off course.
Tweet, tweet.
Since when does the contrapositive of a statement get counted as a corollary, let alone one worthy of a name?
I am a long time Mac fanboy, but I will not purchase an operating system with GENERALIZED built-in DRM. If this is limited to iTunes crap that's fine -- only my kids buy their songs through iTunes when necessary, but I don't.
If this DRM respects multiple companies protection schemes then I will happily ditch my Apple computers and OSX for Linux; at least Linux respects its userbase more than the recording industry.
I already have several computers that use Linux, but truly prefer OSX for work/graphics/design needs.
Please tell me this is limited to iTunes!!
I am open source, and Linux baby!
Person writing TFA has NFI.
HDCP which is now being included is a prerequisite for full-resolution Bluray. IT DOES NOT IN ANY WAY FUCK WITH YOUR FILES.
HDCP is NOT DRM. HDCP is a technology used by DRM. It's meant to secure the data path from GPU to cables to monitor to pixels.
THIS TECH IS ALREADY ON ALL NEW GRAPHICS CARDS AND ALL NEW MONITORS, Apple is LATE in implementing it if anything.
The preceding comment is my own, and in no way construes an opinon of the Emperor of Mankind.
As far as I'm aware (and as reinforced by Wikipedia), AACS (which utilizes HDCP for its secure video channel) allows analog outputs to output the video, albeit at a lower resolution (960x540). Why can't Apple do the same thing for video output to non-HDCP displays?
Anyone??? This "built-in copy protection" is just HDCP that has been in video cards and monitors for YEARS now on the Windows side. It has been around since at least 2006 with the GeForce 7 series! 7-Series.[Wikipedia] It was optional for DVI displays but the DVDs started being encoded with the signals so the display makers started making compatible displays. Heck you're probably using one right now and don't even know it. The thing is, since the adoption was pretty good with the displays, this "issue" only crops up when watching an encoded movie output to a non-HDCP display such as through a VGA connection. Again this is nothing new, it doesn't affect the playback on the laptop's screen, just the output to the projector, which also wouldn't have been affected with a DVI cable (and DisplayPort to DVI converter).
They nourish me.
They implemented this crap because if they say no and stick up for their consumers they know they'll get passed by other parties as a content delivery method.
So, in other words, are you kind of saying that Apple was forced by Hollywood, et al. to do this? Are you essentially reiterating what the GP quoted, but twisting it to cast him in a negative light, but accusing him as a fanboy? Are you essentially proving GP's point? Oh, by the way: the article has very little to do with FairPlay, and everything to do with HDCP.
> So what's the advantage of Linux regarding this now again?
Linux won't suddenly cripple your output hardware because
it thinks you are doing something that the MPAA disapproves of.
Once you allow the MPAA into the core of your OS, then that
becomes a very real problem.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Not that far in the Alphabet that fast.
I'm thinkin' it's around M, so I'm guaranteeing it's not Meddling Monkey.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
During some amazing glitch I had to use a Mac mouse on my winbox as an emergency. The irritation was almost glorious to behold.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Some of them even have access to the same channel in actual HD and don't even know it.
A-fuckin-men brother. I live with the folks (caretaker for Mom) and while dad knows about ESPN, History and NatGeo HD, all the rest of them are totally foreign to him. Last time I was around on Sunday night he was watching the Simpsons on the SD Fox channel, when I switched to Fox HD he literally said "I didn't know regular TV was HD!". IMO if you have the HD box (at least with TimeWarner it's still a different option than the SD box) any channel with an HD equivalent should be blocked or mapped to HD or something.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
nt
He first drives mad. lol
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
Vista sucked beyond imagination, Windows 7 is Vista with a different name and Apple is playing again ad again the bad guy card, both software and hardware wise. What else does Linux need to get some serious consideration among average users?
Linux needs some serious marketing. People have either never heard of Linux, think that "Linux is just too complicated" or "Really Nerdy", or is being used by said nerds to whom "sudo apt-get" actually means something. Give it some marketing, iron out the software installation process (Repositories are great, but downloading an RPM or DEB package is still messy), and say "to hell with 101 permutations of the GPL" because 99% of the people will never look at the source code and only care if software is free-as-in-beer. Add a celeb spokesperson and get official Linux support from software houses like Adobe and Linux may start to find its way onto the desktop if Windows and MacOS take an even greater nose dive.
Joey
Without seeming to flame (flame mode if you like), we've had experience of locked down platform with Apple's iPhone. Now Apple join Microsoft in having a locked down OS for media playback, nobody can feel smug or superior (apart from Linux users).
Linux users can feel superior for not being able to legally play HD Blu-ray titles or for not being able to buy HD video from iTunes?? Yes Linux users can use software employing AACS and BD+ hacks, but so can Mac OS X and Vista users - even on HDCP enabled hardware. So what's the advantage of Linux regarding this now again?
With Linux I don't have to pay a few hundred dollars for the privilege. Pay 300 bucks and still have to hack it? No thank you
"So what's the advantage of Linux regarding this now again?"
We can use the money we didn't spend on OUR operation system to buy a few more movies, etc. What advantage do you have?
What's Steve Jobs' signon at Apple, anyway?
I was planning on getting Mom a Mac, but they can forget it now.
I thought I'd tell him. He doesn't like me anyway (old disagreement) but why not.
-- thanks,
David
This is just in time for MS's "MS approved software application download store" and "Free MSAV". It won't be long after that that Intel trusted computing chips get fully used by MS Windows and MacOS X: You can only download from the app stores. Don't like it? Then you don't get to use the things you've become addicted to for the last 5 years; your iphone 3's will only work on Macs, and "Games for Windows" will only run on Xbox3 in its WindowsXB mode (no not on Windows 8, because Windows 8 still works for hardware without paladium, so it's a nerfed no-mass-media version of Windows, only suitable for email and Office).
</scenario>
Of course, I can get by with Linux, and can (with a little withdrawal pain) go back to reading books instead of playing computer games or watching movies. And it likely won't get this bad anyway.
In Soviet Digg, user community slash you!
I really don't need 1080p to enjoy a movie. Most theaters I've been to lately seem to have about 600 line equivalent resolution - really big screen, but not too sharp.
It's only optional for Analog output (VGA/Component). If the ICT (Image Constraint Token) is set, it will downgrade on an analog output, if the ICT is not set, it will output at full resolution over Analog Outputs.
Digital Outputs however, require HDCP regardless of the state of the ICT
will buy the "shiny new toys" anyway. They have "drunk the Koolaid" (or something else...) If they truly cared about what goes on inside a computer they wouldn't be yuying a Mac from the "iron fist" of old Steveo. "Oh yes great one, please please tell me what I may buy from you next!"
What you described was a weakness of CSS -- it's too costly to revoke vendor keys, so it practice it rarely done (have they ever revoked a CSS vendor key?)
Supposedly, AACS fixes this problem, and keys can be revoked on a per player basis. The details are a little fuzzy to me but you can read about on Wikipedia, naturally.
...and OS X is not copy-protected. You can copy it a zillion times and install it with no problems, activation, etc. to any supported Apple computer in existence an unlimited number of times.
I don't believe this is true any more. My wife took delivery of a brand-new MacBook about 10 days ago, which was set up with OS X 10.5.5 pre-installed.
As I was inheriting her old 13" MacBook, I thought to use the Leopard install disk that came with her machine to upgrade from Tiger on the older box. But it came up with a message to the effect that "You cannot install this software on this computer".
Instead, I had to use a copy of 10.5.1 that I had picked up for my old G4 and download some 700MB of updates.
The same seems to apply to the separate "applications" disc that comes with the new machines, which I loaded just to see what was on it. So it would appear they are now using some form of copy-protection...
While his comment about Steve Jobs being an ass is uncalled for...
I personally don't care one way or the other, but if the quote in the URL to which duckInferno referred is genuine, then Jobs was indeed being an asshole.
On the other hand, if you plug a regular 2 or 3 button mouse into your Mac, you have all the right click context men goodness that you miss if you can never remember to press the shift? ctrl? apple? (which f*&cking key is it again - I know it's one of you!) key.
Don't tailgate - the end is near!
"men goodness"? Where the hell did my "u" go?
Don't tailgate - the end is near!
8.10 - I
9.04 - J
9.10 - K
10.04 - L
10.10 - M
11.04 - N
11.10 - O
11.10 being 3 years from now means I may well be using an early alpha of 12.04. Then again, by then I may be running haiku.
I don't therefore I'm not.
"men goodness"? where the hell did my "u" go?
Don't tailgate - the end is near!
I rarely comment on /. any more, but just had to say this.
I for one have four macs at house (and 2 PCs) in use. I have been looking to replace the two old iBook & PowerBook laptops with Intel-based ones. But this hardware-DRM news really puts me down...
I now have two options. Either to buy old stock MacBook (while stocks still last), or look for a good PC-laptop and run Linux on it.
I have to say the option two is looking much more likely option now after this news. And this may not be such a bad thing either. Acer has a nice mini laptop with built in 3G-card and Ubuntu Netbook Remix seems a well thought out OS to install on one... ...although the other laptop needs to be a large screen one. Any good ideas for a one that doesn't weigh a ton? I WAS thinking about MacBook Pro, but now...
If all else fails, pull the plug and get out...
The Life is out there...
Evil AND stupid is a lovely combination.
Love to hate you Micro$oft and App£e. Like retarded Siamese twins.
Thank god for GNU!
Cool! Now I can spend money on something that is even less useful than before!
So, if I legally buy a copy of a movie, play it on a macbook, and try to view it at home through another connected video device, I can't.....Even though there is absolutely no piracy going on.
It's amazing to see how people keep buying Apple products even though Apple puts less and less functionality in them.
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
Well, that about wraps it up for Apple then? I KNEW they'd just make one huge, fatal marketing blunder AGAIN. If they are lucky, Steve will wake up one morning, realize what he's done and make a frantic phone call.
Yeah...That's right...Who's your daddy? Keep sucking bitch! Or no Mac-y goodness for you!
This pretty much sums up about every Mac-freak (not every Mac user) I've ever come across.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
> If you have ever wondered why file transfers and deletions suffer from slow-downs on your vista box
Well, since they don't, I've never wondered such.
a 2007 crack is irrevocable.
this is why we have things like anydvd HD, etc, and why they pushed out BD+, which was ALSO cracked.
For further reference on the ease of ripping BLU-RAY for naive users, see this link
Game over, and once again, the MPAA loses.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
You mean this myth about protected media path consuming considerable CPU power even on unprotected streams?
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
Then again, I still buy music whereas some people seem to not do that at all anymore
Please let me know when they make music which is not either a freeze-dried, diluted version of 1995 "alternative" or hannah montana.
Oh, did I mention how they killed the crap out of techno and drove the good stuff so far underground I have an easier time finding leaked bush administration documents?
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
Nelson to a Mac fanboy.
Ha ha!
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
iTunes 8 baby, that's what blew it for me. Wasn't stupid enough to do it myself, by I did get dragooned into re-imaging a fried winXP machine after iTunes 8 wrecked the OS.
so now apple can go **** themselves. I;ll sit here and play the triangle before I use their crap again.
Apple burn in hell.... ...
except the iPhone girl, she was kinda cute.
"Linux won't suddenly cripple your output hardware because
it thinks you are doing something that the MPAA disapproves of."
Neither does OS X. What's crippling things in this case is a chip which implements VESA's DisplayPort 1.1 specification as part of the DisplayPort support hardware, which operates outside the control of the OS and its drivers, and is very unlikely to have been designed by Apple or for Apple. The result would therefore be just the same under Linux if it had the capability to play protected content via the DisplayPort connectors that come with some computers from Lenovo, Dell, and HP, not just those from Apple.
This technology will start to bite users of all operating systems as time passes because DisplayPort is a cheap, low power single-chip system that's already included in some graphics chip sets, and the fact that it can be used to support older display technologies with a simple plug-in adapter means that manufacturers can (and therefore will) save the cost of connectors and internal support hardware on laptops in particular by gradually removing all other types of video connectors from their designs.
I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
What about brute-forcing the other 999 keys? Once you have 999 encrypted keys and the unencrypted version, it would be only a matter of time before the other 999 are found by brute-forcing. It may take a while, but will they run out of dictionary space?
I'm quite happy to download a PDA playable version (mine runs at 640x480, 5").
Once I've seen it, and if the movie is any good, I'll take my wife to the cinema to see it full size and with better sound than I have at home.
The MAFIAA are putting out such utter crap these days and paying their media shills to hype it so high that I don't trust any reviews. Without a preview I'm not going to waste hard earned cash on a possible lemon.
Do not meddle in the affairs of geeks for they are subtle and quick to anger
Obligatory XKCD link.
And, yes doing business with legal entities is such a hassle, and leads to so much legal problems that it easy to make a case for going illegal from the start. My decision is to go without, but I can't really blame someone that chooses a different path.
Rethinking email
Your sig: +1, Agree Wholeheartedly
But it was put into the Mac by Apple, not by VESA. Therefore Apple is guilty of it being there, and of all resulting effects.
The Wikipedia entry for the DisplayPort didn't explain, so please do: how does the DisplayPort prevent the user from displaying DRM'd content ? I mean, it might operate independently of the OS, but it must accept input composed by said OS - otherwise you couldn't, say, display a desktop on a DisplayPort-connected display. So what's stopping the OS or userspace program from decoding the video without involving the DisplayPort - as it must be able to do, since it was said earlier that said videos play fine on computers without DP - and then sending the resulting frames to DP as it would any other image ? Do these videos have some kind of watermark the DP detects ?
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
You want to hear the funny part? People that download illegal copies are not nagged with this problem at all. They can enjoy a Matroska-encoded Blu-ray rip in full 30", HD quality, glory. Isn't that gorgeous Steve? And they are doing it right now.
Can pleeeeease somebody explain to these dinosaurs that this will only make the few people left out there, who still rents/buys their content legally, stop from doing it?
To big media companies: Don't you get it guys?? Next year you will blame your lower income on piracy... Duh...
To Apple: I thought computers were created to empower users, not to enslave them. Shame on you!
Seriously, there has yet to be a DRM scheme that hasn't been broken yet, and there likely never will be. As long as DRM has to allow the media to play on... SOMETHING, it will be breakable.
However, this being done on a Mac, where Apple controls not only the software, OS, but also the hardware, might be a LOT harder than on a PC, which is much more open, has much more varied hardware, and you have the choice not only of several flavors of Windows (I've never gone Vista and never will) but also of OS's.
One wonders though in this particular instance if Apple has opened itself up to liability. If someone has bought their hardware from Apple, and happens to use a display that isn't "DRM compliant" that Apple sold them, and suddenly their Itunes collection won't play, isn't that Apple's fault? Could be a potential lawsuit there.
Corporatism != Free Market
did we start buying laptops for bluray players?
Pirate it. You'll end up as a criminal ether way.
I have a projector at home which runs at 800x600. I use it to watch DVDs and files grabbed from iPlayer. The resolution of iPlayer movies is 484x272 - a little over a quarter of the resolution of my projector, and around VHS quality. Occasionally the quality is distracting (macroblocking more than low resolution), but for the most part, if I'm watching something good then it's immersive at low resolutions.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
By "thinks" you mean "notices the entire damn file is encrypted and has metadata attached saying that PVP is required", then yes, yes it will ensure that the path is PVP before playback, and ask the kernel for a protected stream to the graphics card.
The MPAA, of course, is nowhere near your system. Their sole role is to be sweet-talked by MS/Apple who say "hey, we have a protected path to the graphics card in our OS, can we has key now?". The vendor will then give them one of the many revocable keys.
The worst they can do to you is no longer support your particular playback software's key on newly pressed disks.
Linux, of course, is fucked, as nobody can be bothered writing a player that would comply (and it certainly wouldnt be open source). Fear of the PVP path is completely unfounded, but a nice convenient target for noobs to blame any Vista woes on.
3laws: No freebies, no backsies, GTFO.
Fixed.
3laws: No freebies, no backsies, GTFO.
Slashdot is not better than Digg because of the timeliness of the stories. Slashdot is better than Digg because of the user community.
You must be new here.
Sent from my iPhone
It's access restriction, not copy protection. The disk is still very simply bootlegged, you just can't playback the suckers on your choice of payback hardware. Copy protection might thwart bootleggers, access restrictions thwart potential consumers.
The answer is, buy copy after copy and return copy after copy saying that they disks don't play back. The retailer will pass the costs back to the publisher. Someone may eventually get the hint.
Methinks thou dost protest too much. I bet you really do miss all that "men goodness".
Squirrel!
Amazon sells straight MP3's for the same price Itunes sells their DRM'd stuff. ($0.99)
I don't know how the selections compare, but I've found what I wanted so far. It's pretty nice to be able to play purchased songs on my aftermarket car stereo without buying an ipod and an expensive adapter.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
There are plenty of reasons to like the new MacBook Pro, and I can understand why people want to get one (physical toughness, more capable graphics, etc). I think DRM will just affect their choice of where to get content--download the movie from iTunes or BitTorrent? People savvy enough to understand and object to DRM schemes are usually also savvy enough to know how to get pirated content.
The studios are really the ones pushing DRM onto everyone else, and so IMO it's fair that they should bear the brunt of the financial cost of that decision.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
I predict the economic crisis will solve this. Just like the CD market shrinked to make place for the DVD/MP3/mobile phone market, that market will shrink to make place for the basic needs and savings markets.
I predict the now massively broke consumers will turn to the free alternatives, which are the ones for which DRM has already been removed (the warez version). The more well off will become more conscious and will only buy stuff the can copy for their broke friends. Hollywood and the VG industry just will have to live and build its business model around it: you can't get money from where there is no money.
To EVERYONE, This is nothing to do with Apple implementing DRM!!!!!!! Please understand that. HDCP is NOT DRM. This is Apple implementing a technology FORCED by the motion picture industry THAT HAS BEEN IN PCs FOR 2 YEARS ALREADY! Anyone who has a GeForce 7950 or better or an ATI X1900 or better has been subject to this technology (search for HDCP or hdcp in these pages). Apple is actually LATE in implementing this. ALL PC laptops currently have this so thinking "Well I'll just get a PC instead will not solve anything." This article is pure FUD and has very little truth in it. Please do a little research before you make knee-jerk reactions because everything on the internet isn't always true.
I certainly don't know about Canadian copyright law, but are you sure that your laws really say it's legal for you to copy things for personal use? Or does some specific law merely have an exception for personal copying?
I ask because many, many people in the U.S. are under the mistaken impression that they have some sort of inalienable right to fair use, when in fact fair use is merely a defense against charges that you have violated the copyright act. It doesn't give you permission to violate any other laws in your pursuit of fair use.
Is this the deal they had to make to get NBC back? Is this a deal breaker for Apple or will fans just ignore it to get their hands on the pretty new machines? Is this a new opportunity for Linux? And what happened to Jobs not liking DRM?
I guess if there were answers to the questions, this would be news. Otherwise it's just flamebait.
This is not copy protection. If you have a file, whether DRMed or not, you'll still be able to make a billion copies of it on one of these Macs, share it with a billion other people, etc.
All this does, is prevent users from playing DRMed content. Apple is just saying, "if you have one of our news Macs, don't buy anything DRMed, because our Macs are designed to make sure that it does not work. You can buy it, but you can't watch it. If you need to be able to watch your movies, your only choice is to obtain DRM-free copies. If DRM-free copies are not for sale, you'll have to pirate it."
This is one of the most MPAA-hostile things Apple has done to date. I still wouldn't buy a Mac, but they've scored a point with me for making their hardware incompatible with DRM.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
are doomed to repeat it.
-- Programming with boost is like building a house with lego. It's a cool but I wouldn't want to live in it
Comment removed based on user account deletion
From the way this blacklisting system is described, your best bet is simply to avoid BluRay until the DVD standard goes extinct. Then, when all the good content finally shifts to BluRay, launch a massive campaign to simultaneously crack all known vendor keys, effectively invalidating all known BluRay players in existence. Upon every existing player being disabled across the board, the market should simply collapse in on itself.
8==8 Bones 8==8
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Comment removed based on user account deletion
I don't think the DRM changes will be a big deal unless it intrudes on the actual user experience. If the actual operation of the OS is hindered by DRM, then it will ruin ease of use and cause users to look elsewhere.
A good example is how itunes works vs the old buymp3.com site. itunes is pretty easy to use, and I have not faced any arbitrary DRM limitations (buymp3 only allowed playback on the 2 initial computers and 3 CD burns -- this is draconian - and stupid, I could just burn the CD and re-encode it to mp3).
Apple is pretty good at UI, and hopefully has not made a major misstep, but I am going to keep an eye on the situation before buying my next Mac. If this new layer of DRM hinders usability, it's back to Ubuntu for me. I agree with so many others who posted here -- DRM only hurts the honest folk.
Paging Dr. Freud, paging Dr. Freud.
Don't these people ever learn? My mother just recently called me asking why her TV wouldn't let her play movies from the laptop (/w Vista). At first I thought it was a connection issue, but then she explained that the screen was displaying an "unauthorized device" message.
Laptop has Blu-Ray, and the TV is even HDCP compliant. It's sad to see that Macs will be going down the same road.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Linux isn't "fucked".
It's in the same exact situation as everything else.
If you want a no-muss no-fuss decode of the content then you are going to have to crack it first.
Otherwise, it is perpetually being held hostage by the content owner.
If it's Bluray, then the keys for ALL OF YOUR PLAYERS can be revoked at will.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
My only experience with HDCP has been entirely negative. Until about a year ago, my ATI Radeon video board had beautiful DVI output that worked with my first-generation HDCP-enabled Samsung monitor.
Without even thinking, last year I upgraded to a much beefier Nvidia board. Unfortunately, once it is coupled with my HDCP enabled monitor the result is a blank screen.
It's completely useless to me.
What I can't understand is this happens by just attempting to boot my computer and run any kind of graphical interface (Windows or X11). Is this the kind of "protection" that HDCP is suppose to offer?
Do I have time to figure this out? No. To be honest, at this point I have no interest in upgrading my graphic hardware ever again and will simply live with the resolution I can get out of my DVI->VGA adapter.
Eric Sarjeant
eric[@]sarjeant.com
Only in the US.
I can throw myself at the ground, and miss.
One hundred thousand plus Slashdotters have done exactly the same thing as Apple: upgraded their video cards.
The new AMC theatre at Yonge and Dundas in Toronto is quad-HD, so 3840x2160 resolution. It looks a little sharper than the traditional projector systems we've become used to, but there are huge advantages in terms of not having to switch reels, not having random black and white spots, etc.; I'm thoroughly enjoying it!
Aikon-
All HDCP means is that you can't use a pure digital transport, like HDMI, to view content on devices that don't support HDCP.
Practical applications of HDCP and similar technical measures restrict high-resolution analog outputs in the same way that they restrict cleartext digital outputs. The article states that a movie failed to play through a VGA adapter, and VGA is analog.
Lucky you, the AMC theaters around here typically have light pollution behind the screen and cracked speakers that are still turned up too loud. But, hey, what do you expect for $9/ticket?
"But it was put into the Mac by Apple, not by VESA. Therefore Apple is guilty of it being there, and of all resulting effects."
Saying that something's part of a standard protocol rather than being in an OS was not intended as an excuse for Apple, and should not be read as such. Apple chose to use DisplayPort, and they also chose not to include any other video ports on the new Macbooks (which Dell, Lenovo, HP etc. do), so they'll have to live with the consequences of that decision. I don't personally reckon that forcing DisplayPort on people was a good idea, especially on the pro gear, which should have more than one in-built video output connector.
"The Wikipedia entry for the DisplayPort didn't explain, so please do: how does the DisplayPort prevent the user from displaying DRM'd content?"
As you seem to like Wikipedia, I suggest you read the entry on HDCP, which contains a fairly detailed explanation of how the process works.
"So what's stopping the OS or userspace program from decoding the video without involving the DisplayPort - as it must be able to do, since it was said earlier that said videos play fine on computers without DP - and then sending the resulting frames to DP as it would any other image ?"
Nothing, unless the port is one where HDCP is always turned on, which is actually more common than one might think, because it's simpler from an implementation viewpoint than having an on-off system on a general purpose computer that conforms with the HDCP licence's insistence on it being impossible to turn off or otherwise bypass via software hacks or simple hardware measures such as cutting / re-routing tracks or disabling / shorting pins. Intel were heavily involved in the HDCP specification, and they're more than familiar with the fact that programmers will find and exploit any back doors that are left open, so they did a lot of work to minimise that possibility.
NB: the information that's currently floating around leads me to suspect that iTunes is responsible for using end-to-end encryption with protected video content. My reasoning is as follows:
1) The error dialogue in the screen shot included with some reports has an iTunes icon in it.
2) Said screen shot clearly shows portions of a Mac desktop on the same display device, so this isn't a case of HDCP always being on irrespective of what's being sent over it.
3) Many users are saying that the same problem occurs with standard definition stuff from the iTunes store on Macs with Displayport, which points to it being something that happens when decoding Fairplay 3 content for playback, in this case inappropriately because HDCP is only meant for HD content, and shouldn't affect SD stuff at all.
I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
Amazon sells straight MP3's for the same price Itunes sells their DRM'd stuff. ($0.99)
Then buy non-DRM'd iTunes Plus tracks you moron! [Even though iTunes Store only sells DRM-free tracks from one major label (EMI) and Amazon sells DRM-free tracks from all four majors.]
Also, iTunes AAC files sound WAY better than MP3 files. [Even though at 256kbps, Amazon's LAME-encoded MP3 files are equal in audio quality to iTunes Store's AAC files.]
I don't know how the selections compare, but I've found what I wanted so far. It's pretty nice to be able to play purchased songs on my aftermarket car stereo without buying an ipod and an expensive adapter.
[No longer pretending to be a Mac fanboi...]
As I mentioned above, Amazon's DRM-free selection is much better (for now). You've also demonstrated why 256kbps LAME-encoded MP3 files are better than iTunes AAC files: they play everywhere on everything (including iPods, car stereos, CD/DVD changers, etc).
I'm reasonably certain hardly any of you buy video content from iTunes. Even if you do, this will only affect a subset that have an older digital display and wish to output said content to it.
These are brand new computers, designed for use with today's technology.
At some point Apple was going to have to support HDCP and how many displays built today, support 720p and 1080p but not HDCP? None worth their salt I'll wager.
I only casually keep up to date on digital display tech, but even I was clued up enough to make sure the TV I bought earlier this year supported HDCP.
Revoked is a pretty charged word for "no longer encrypting the title key with your player's key". Thats all.
If your key is blacklisted you can keep playing your existing disks - your player is not bricked. You just can't play new releases.
You are then equally fucked (and yes that word is appropriate) as someone using Linux. You are fucked because you have to break the law to play new releases. I agree the law is complete and utter bullshit, but I prefer not to be in the situation where I am breaking the law over some triviality like playing a movie.
3laws: No freebies, no backsies, GTFO.
HDCP is an encrypted protocol, preventing - or at least attempting to prevent - capture of video stream as it travels from the display adapter to the monitor.
It seems, then, that it doesn't. It's the viewer program which has been crippled. The same files could be viewed on the same computer with another program.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
"HDCP is an encrypted protocol, preventing - or at least attempting to prevent - capture of video stream as it travels from the display adapter to the monitor."
Attempt is the correct word, because the only thing it actually seems to be particularly successful at is causing problems for legitimate customers, with the Apple DisplayPort issue being just the latest example of an extremely badly implemented version of a worse idea.
"HDCP is an encrypted protocol, preventing - or at least attempting to prevent - capture of video stream as it travels from the display adapter to the monitor."
Doesn't what?
"It's the viewer program which has been crippled."
That's what it looks like to me from the evidence I've seen. I can't verify this personally because I don't own one of the new MacBooks, and I'm not going to buy one for the sake of Slashdot post.
"The same files could be viewed on the same computer with another program."
Anything capable of decrypting them would be able to send the results to the DisplayPort hardware without using its HDCP capabilities, which are optional in a technical sense, although Apple are likely to be legally or contractually obliged to use it when the capability exists by some of their content providers. AV geeks won't be in the least surprised to hear that Apple's first outing with HDCP has caused problems for some Mac users, because they've been wrestling with it for about 3 years, and its many problems problems show little sign of improving, let alone going away.
I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
Yeah like the load of people in this story who think this is SOME NEW EVIL COPY PROTECTION, and not just the HDCP necessary to support Blue ray.
And before the next retard comes along whining that the new macbooks don't have Blue ray: THIS IS ABOUT DISPLAY PORT, which will be used on all new Macs. Jesus fuck sakes you goddamn retards.