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A Tale of Two Windows 7s
theodp writes "It was the best of operating systems, it was the worst of operating systems. When it comes to the merits of Windows 7, it looks like Slate's Farhad Manjoo and PC Magazine's John Dvorak are going to have to agree to disagree. Manjoo gives Windows 7 a big thumbs-up (a sincere one, unlike Linus!), calling it a 'crowning achievement,' while Dvorak is less than impressed, saying, 'Win 7 is really just a Vista martini. The operating system may have two olives instead of one this time out, but it's still made with the same cheap Microsoft vodka.' So, for those of you who've had a chance to check things out, are things really different this time?"
Multiple readers have also pointed out that there have been problems with the download and installation of Windows 7 upgrades obtained through the student discount offer, which Microsoft has confirmed.
Microsoft Vodka? When do they learn to use Russian Standard Vodka (worth checking out btw, some style for the Saturday night).
But for that matter, haven't it been established for long already that Win7 is basically Vista with the quirks removed and improved features. Vista was more like a transition, while actually still being a good OS.
As such, it is completely useless, unintuitive and uncomfortable for me. Will not use it.
Seriously allready, it's not funny anymore
It's like a hot chick with an ugly face...
On one hand, John Dvorak is saying something negative about Microsoft.
On the other hand, I would have to agree with something that troll John Dvorak thinks.
Quite the dilemma.
And therefore Windows 7 will achieve moderate success, at best.
But the same. this one has a number in the name. Everything old is new again
Or is Dvorak's article more of a complaint that MS no longer writes him love letters than anything else?
He barely mentions Win7 at all
John Dvorak is...
Old, real old.
Out of touch.
An old fogey.
Stupid.
Really stupid.
A troll.
Illogical.
Ignorant of what he writes and says.
Now feel free to actually comment about the topic at hand: Windows 7, worth it or not?
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
I have installed it on three machines:
The good is that desktops work rather well.
The bad is that notebooks are rather problematic. I have an HP tablet that when the screen is flipped causes the machine to stop dead in its tracks.
The other problem I had was that upgrading an XP to Windows 7 machine worked ONCE I completely removed all of the partitions. Windows 7 needs a system partition that is blocked by most OEM's backup and restore partition. It frustrated me for five hours, and the messages from Windows 7 were crap.
Overall, Windows 7 is acceptable. Definitely needed when using Vista, but Windows 7 no work of wonder...
Want work of wonder... Ubuntu Netbook Remix. Now that has me impressed. I run Windows machines, but on my netbook Ubuntu Netbook Remix runs perfectly and the UI is brilliant. Much better than the Windows 7 stuff.
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
anybody realize that you can't do an upgrade installation from a 32 bit OS to 64 bit? and this has nothing to do with the download? Not even MS support?
Sure, an iso would be nice, but still, lots of people getting their facts wrong...
The usual astroturfing vs. the usual critiques. And then there's the mere coincidence that every windows to date has been branded "best windows evar". I can't help but understand, even share, the dark^Wcynical^W critical outlook of some. But then, we also already know that this usually gets snowed under the marketeering driven onslaught that micros~1 does best. They really are more of a marketeering company than anything else. The rest is just gimmick to help sales.
I got the student 64-bit version for my laptop and it runs like a dream.
Vodka? In a Martinia? Whoever this John Dvorak character is he reveals himself to be unsophisticated and boorish. Who else would turn the martini from a subtle melding of flavours into a delivery device for yet even more of the high-octane, low-flavour swill they call Vodka?
There are many uses of Windows and each will offer their different opinion, there are some people who will use Windows 7 to get things done. The fact that it seems to run faster than Vista, seems to have usability improvements and has some new features makes it a "win" in their eye. There are some people who just use a computer for internet, e-mail and perhaps typing up a few documents. Windows 7 wins in that it is faster than Vista, is currently lesser used so for a while it will be more secure, and it seems like MS learned to only certify machines that will actually run Windows 7 decently so we won't have some of the Vista disasters, however it is still not as familiar as XP is, so it will require some re-learning especially if they are one of the many still using XP. Then there are the PC "fanboys" these people are usually either people with a lot of cash and like having "the fastest" machine, are PC gamers or developers with expensive MS certifications. These people see Windows 7 and the second coming of the messiah and will overlook any and all flaws. There are still other people who look at each OS looking for the "perfect" OS, they will undoubtedly see many flaws and some benefits to using Windows 7. And yet there are people who prefer a different OS, but are looking at Windows 7 to run Windows only apps, with the XP compatibility mode, the fact that Windows 7 is installed by default on most newer computers now, and the improved speed will usually make these people like it for its features, but still feel that their installed OS (OS X, Linux, BSD, VMS, etc) is still superior.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
(not to mention being WAY better than XP)
As someone who ran Vista from the get-go (well, almost, since it was RTM) - on numerous systems, I can say that Windows 7 is a huge upgrade from Vista. Yes, it's not a whole new operating system (although it's pitched that way by MS) - it is in fact Vista the way it should have been in the first place, but that doesn't change the fact that it's way better.
The two key improvements are:
1. Performance - and I'm not talking about benchmarking DVD-burning or file copying being one second faster than Vista or two seconds faster than XP - but about overall, sustained system responsiveness. Windows 7 easily beats Vista here without a doubt. I'm actually running 7 on an eee 900 - and it's as fast as XP was, and I'd have to say it's probably actually slightly faster than XP was. Vista, of course, never cut it for that particular box. On 2 other machines (a desktop and a laptop) - both of which used Vista beforehand - 7 shows tremendous improvement.
2. Usability. This is actually not such a big deal, but honestly, the only cool thing Vista had to show for itself was the all-but-useless Flip 3D. In almost four years of using Vista, I've never once used it for actually switching apps - only to show people what it looks like. 7, on the other hand, comes with a variety of useful UI improvements that I'm already hooked on, e.g. aligning windows to the left and right for easy comparison between windows, taskbar previous improvements (can't wait for Firefox to support those, aero peek and a couple of others.
I'd say that Dvorak is simply feeling sour about not being treated like a celebrity like he was used to at the past. That has nothing to do with 7.
The key place where Microsoft made negative progress is on the taskbar. Everyone's saying how Microsoft's version of the dock is better than the original - I say both suck. Why on earth one would want to mix between running applications and switching to running applications is beyond me. Thankfully, the new 7 taskbar can be tweaked to behave like the XP/Vista taskbar (quicklaunch for launching apps, the rest of the taskbar for showing running apps) in under 3 minutes.
From the article:
The desktop OS is besieged from all sides: More and more of our applications now run on the Web, and the idea of running huge, complex, and expensive personal systems will, in time, seem strange.
Does this remark seem strange to anyone else ? I, honestly, am not seeing this trend at all, but I've seen it talked about. What's the reality here ?
Dvorak is an idiot, trying to get publicity for his stupid views. Windows 7 is good.
If Windows 7 is any good or not is really a moot point. Every new, additional release of windows, and every new API they introduce dilutes the Windows XP/IE monoculture that was stopping the acceptance of alternative OSes. Microsoft is unlikely to ever regain the position of dominance they had on 2000-01, so it's only a matter of time.
..don't panic
Dear John Dvorak,
A martini is made with gin and vermouth.
A vodka martini is made with vodka.
Stick to bad car analogies next time.
And I've used Windows from 3.0 to current, every version and every service pack level.
It's replaced the linux partition on my gaming desktop even.
Well it looks like Microsoft has turned the Vista blunder into a Windows 7 success, money making opportunity... great move on their part. They did this by basically just waiting for drivers to mature, waiting for the hardware to catch up, and focusing on creating some fancy ads like these: Windows 7 Ad Campaign Kicks Off, Focuses on Features
I tend to agree with Dvorak... Windows 7 is more like Vista SP3...plus some fancy interface updates but basically the same deep down.
I'll have my Windows 7 shaken, not stirred.
On a serious note, he's right about what's going on inside MSFT. That's been happening a long time. I actually think they would have been farther ahead letting the government break them up. They act like a company that's not all that excited about what they do anymore.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
I know this stuff has been beaten to death, but here's a guy who:
A) thought the mouse was a waste of time
B) thought the iPhone would fail
C) proclaimed there was no way Google would ever buy YouTube
among other things. In a strange sort of way, I almost admire him. He's managed to make a career of just complaining about stuff with not much to back it up.
The only thing I sort of remember is Dvorak claiming he had the scoop on Apple switching to Intel, but IIRC the rocket scientists at MacOS Rumors made the same claim. The implication here is that that prediction may not have been the most difficult to devine (i.e., saying that in the future, there will be a cure for cancer or some other disease.)
Quite frankly, if Dvorak is shitting all over Win7, my first reaction is that it's probably going to do well. In some ways, Dvorak is to tech as Jim Cramer is to stocks: Do the opposite of what they say and you'll be fine.
Dvorak's article is completely useless. He's concerned with the fact that MS doesn't coddle the media like they once did and that their marketing material is overly pro-corporate (imagine that!) and lacking in punctuation--there was nothing in the article about the OS. I'm not sure how this guy manages to stay employed other than the fact that he's entertaining in his complete lack of relevance. Also, the cheap vodka/martini/two-olives analogy made no sense...it did make me want a martini though.
Both reviews are based of the reviewers perception of what Microsoft needed to get right, and both are crap. Nobodys opinion matters as much as mine, cause I actually have to *buy* my copy of ... whatever.
My beef with the Microsoft fanboy's review is not that he got all mushy on 7, which I will admit is not a bad OS in my experience, but his insistance that its all pointless anyway, cause the 'cloud' is coming....
I know the mainstream media has to jump on the 'next new thing' bandwagon, but this particular bit of hype is baffling for a couple of reasons....
The entire concept of 'cloud computing' is moronic. Lets throw out 30 years of computer science innovation, turn our boxes into the computing equivalent of a toaster so we can use the internets, office software, Quake, and photoshop by subscribing to a never ending service that we cant actually even license...much less 'own'.
What could possibly go wrong? Once we all have thin clients on our desks hooked into the cloud, we can get rid of all the desktop programmers and put all the software innovation concentration on those super awesome AJAX developers out there, who can 'almost' pull off web apps that have the features of desktop apps we stopped using in 1998. Hype is stupid, the cloud is marketing fog.
similar story here.
I'd actually installed (k)ubuntu, and was seriously considering switching to that as my main OS such were my bad experiences with Vista.
kubunutu was far from perfect however, often feeling like processes were blocking other processes for no reason, not really giving any error, just hanging until other things were done. add to that audio problems, and it wasn't really much better than Vista, it just had it's own set of problems.
Windows 7 on the other hand is streamlined, and functional, I've had no issues with it at all, even on machines where Vista was troublesome.
As a result I've been able to wipe off kubuntu and now have an up to date operating system that serves all my needs.
Small Glurmo: But, your Highness, she's a commoner. Her Slurm will taste foul.
Slurm Queen: Yes, which is why we'll market it as New Slurm. Then, when everyone hates it, we'll bring back Slurm Classic and make billions!
but windows 7 is at least twice as good as windows 3.1
Wait... that makes no sense. Dvorak is ragging on M$ (lololo) and that makes him the enemy of /.?
You must be new here.
I don't have any time for Dvorak (or other "pundits") but he is right about Microsoft's publicity and media work being haplessly out of touch. I'm a PC... The Wow Starts Now... Gates and Seinfeld... Windows 7 Party... and, of course, any time CEO Steve Ballboy speaks ("Squirt me that... IBM should do hardware...") or is photographed without a bag over his head.
I don't foresee buying Windows 7. Windows XP works just fine. I see no compelling reason to attend any Windows 7 "Support Our Corporation" Party unless Pamela Anderson has accepted to do a striptease.
Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
...and came to the conclusion that I was dealing with a couple of cranks in Mssrs. Manjoo and Dvorak (not that the latter comes as any surprise).
Manjoo's piece attempted to 'prove' that Windows 7 was a better operating system based on one feature (Taskbar/Aero Views vs. Exposé) and provided a rather subjective critiqué even for that. I'd have liked to have learned more from him about why Windows 7 supposedly beats out Snow Leopard. Nonetheless, his first paragraph (with regards to crapware and the like) tells me what I've always known about the Windows experience: The more things change, the more they unfortunately remain the same.
As for Dvorak's piece, "cheap Microsoft vodka" paints a funny picture, but droning on about how he never gets any more press kits from Microsoft (is it really any wonder, knowing Dvorak?) doesn't tell me anything about Windows 7.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, write technology blogs.
What does Dvorak's article have to do with anything? He's not even arguing it's a bad product, he's just saying the other stuff (PR, marketing, whatnot) has to come together.
I'm not sure if this is the power's fault, or Dvorak's, but what does this article even intend to say? "MICROSOFT MOAR ADS NOAW!"
They made a good product and dvorak didn't even touch on that subject in the entire article.
Dvorak complains in his rank that "Somewhere along the line, Microsoft apparently decided that it only wants to deal with those amenable suckers who will give it a pass on everything". This has been the apple strategy for years, any new hack who doesn't write glowing reviews (or even has the slightest criticism) is cut off from Apple. The hacks, like Mossberg, who praise every apple-touched product are showered with special treatment--including preview samples and preferred access.
When Apple does this it's called brilliant marketing (you better call it that if you're a hack who wants your calls returned), when Microsoft does it, it's unfair competition.
Dvorak...why should MS give you special access?
I installed Windows 7 RC whatever a while ago on my Bootcamp partition. As a lark, I pulled out some older applications and programs that gave Vista fits when it first came out a couple years ago. Installed on Windows 7 without many hiccups, had to set the emulation and run in administrator mode on a couple, but at least they installed and ran without any problems after that.
Now I need to upgrade to Parallels 4 so I can run it in a VM like I did XP. It's not replaced OSX as my everyday OS, but we still have to test our web apps in IE and desktop apps in Windows and Windows 7 runs happily on my older MacBook with 2GB of Ram.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
.. what Windows Vista should have been. I've been a day 1 adopter of both and Vista made me pull my hair out with driver problem, slow file operations, and a long boot time with a fresh install. Windows 7 on the other hand has had no driver issues for me, file operations are fast, and the boot time is even faster.
Microsoft needs to stop rushing and stop promising big. They also need to suck it up when people think something sucks and go back to the drawing board like they did to turn an ugly Vista duckling in to a nice 7 swan.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
If I pretend Vista never happened and I'm going straight from XP to 7, 7 is good.
I could do everything I need to do using just XP, but it wouldn't get done quite as rapidly or elegantly. The whole side-by-side window thing wins a bunch of gratitude from me to Microsoft. Windows key + left/right arrow = definite winner. Anything that reduces my interation with my mouse is a good thing. Works great with side-by-side monitors too :)
Windows 7 improves things *just* enough for me to have little moments of 'ooh, that's nice', which is something missing from XP and Vista.
USB device recognition: Fast. Very fast. ;)
Multi-monitor support: Slick. Unobtrusive. A no-brainer.
UI interactions: Rapid. Responsive. Highly configurable. -- I tend to turn off all the animations / slide effects. Me click close gadget = window gone instantly. Thus my productivity goes up a small percentage.
Hardware support: Inconspicuous. Works just like magic. -- My Nokia N97 (with or without installation of Nokia's Ovi application suite) works exactly as I need it to when I hook it up.
Firewall: I will never need a 3rd-party firewall. Windows 7's firewall (once you get at its interface) is nothing short of perfect.
Networking: Again, it just works. No need to faff about with it. Even recognised my nForce 4 based motherboard's Nvidia ethernet port. Not just recognised, but supports TCP offloading. Not that I needed to know this, but I went poking around
OK, I had to install graphics drivers to get any reasonable performance, but if I hadn't, I could still use my 1920x1200 native resolution and not really suffer *too* great a performance loss in office apps.
Windows 7 will see me through the next 6 years quite happily.
Definitely sounds like it:
I haven't received a single personal note from a Microsoft PR person for roughly four years. Instead, the company has taken to sending out very lengthy and somewhat boring cheerleader-type consumer newsletters to the media in an attempt to keep us informed. It's essentially spam with lots of links and no real compelling content, which seems to be the work of someone who has recently finished taking English as a Second Language courses.
And then 6 more paragraphs complaining about their marketing, not the product.
I've been using Windows 7 for a couple of months now, since it was RTW, after using Vista for a couple of years.
There is absolutely no comparison to Vista in terms of speed and stability, as it it far better. I also love some of the new features they added. Windows 7 is to Windows Vista what Windows XP was to Windows ME.
By the way, Apple's ads have been going downhill since they started. They started out nice and truthful, highlighting Microsoft's failures and Apple's successes nicely, but now they've turned into mostly FUD and cheap-shots.
"Programming is life, the rest is mere details"
I'd like to see a bullet list of the features in Win7 versus Vista and XP. For the typical home user, I don't see big differences in functionality between the different Windows versions from Win2K forward.
The only reason I upgraded from Win2K to XP was for remote desktop functionality that I needed for work. If the biggest differences are widgets on the desktop, fancy picture viewers, etc., then it's not worth the $100+ to buy it for my current systems. I'd take it pre-installed on a new system, but if I build my own system I'd probably use the XP that I already have.
Anyone who looks to either Farhad or Dvorak for insight needs to have their head examined.
Replacing a "linux gaming partition" is a pretty low bar.
You read like a pretty dedicated Windows user. That's not meant as a criticism, merely that you've stuck with it over the long haul - even Windows 98 original, WindowsME and Vista. That you even had a Linux partition on any of your machines also speaks well of you, being sufficiently interested to even try it out. I'm curious why you "replaced the linux partition" on your gaming machine, though. Don't you already have Windows on that machine, on another partition? Were you running out of space, or did you want multiple Windows installs on it?
On the other hand, in VLSI engineering, it's just really nice to have a native Unix-family desktop, X windows, and the like, to run the software and peer with the other similar machines.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
I've been running Vista on a Thinkpad T61p for about a year and a half with no significant problems, crashes, or performance problems. Upgrading to Windows 7 seems like it would be a waste of time and money for me or anyone else with a stable and well-performing Vista installation. The improvements in Windows 7 aren't significant or compelling enough to justify the change.
Dvorak has been known to say things just for the publicity, so take him with a grain of salt. If I remember correctly he has even admitted to this. How much publicity is he getting by going against popular opinion this time? Much of that article is him complaining he was left out of the loop. Awwwwwww, I feel so bad for him, someone needs a hug.
I have a copy of Windows Vista running in a VM in Parallels. I bought the Windows 7 Ultimate upgrade, but decided I want to do a clean install.
To do a clean install from a clean VM (or hard drive), you have to perform a hack. You can't just install 7 and show it your Vista CD to prove you are eligible. Unbelievable!
Contrast this with my recent Mac upgrade experience. I bought Snow Leopard ($29, 1/10th the price of W7), and was able to perform a clean install, without even having to enter a fucking key.
Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
I'd heard about problems with the upgrade downloads as well, but I downloaded it on 10/22 in the afternoon (EST) and it worked fine for me. The only problem was that the order page still had the "Pre-Order" button even after the OS was released. I had to use Digital River's own download manager - it took around half an hour to download the setup file, which was a little less than 3 GB. Generating an ISO and burning it onto a DVD was simple enough. It is a little sneaky how they offer Home Premium by default, when you can get Pro for the same price. I'm sure lots of students in dorms need to join their university's domain. As for the OS itself? I could blue screen Vista Basic 100% of the time by keeping my USB TV tuner plugged in when putting my computer into sleep mode, then resuming and trying use the tuner or logging off. With 7, I can do the same thing - only it gives me a jumbled display after a few seconds and reboots almost immediately. So yeah, it crashes faster. Kinda glad I didn't pay full price for it...
Freedom is drinking a beer in the park when you're supposed to be at work.
Why? Simple - it gets everyone, even the people who don't know any better, OFF of IE 6 and 7. IE 8 is no great technical achievement, but it sure makes my life easier as a web developer. When the hype is whipped up like it is for Win 7, then people are spurred to upgrade hardware, etc. It's a good deal.
If you have people in your life who won't change to a Mac or Ubuntu, try getting them to upgrade to Windows 7, PLEASE. Legally or illegally. All of us on Slashdot should know how to get a cracked/activated copy of Win 7 that doesn't call the mothership by now. If that's what it takes to get people off of IE 6, DO IT. The lesser of two evils here is moving people to Win 7/IE 8 rather than letting them stagnate the Web by continuing to use IE 6.
Here is the solution to the problem. It worked for me.
.zip file and extract it. Then cut and paste the Oscdimg.exe file into your C:\Windows\System32 directory
.iso file to a blank DVD using appropriate software. I personally use PowerISO (You dont need the paid version to burn the image)
:)
This is copy pasted from the second post here : http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/w7install/thread/aedb1245-f8f9-42ec-9a0c-1aa932363bbb
Where this guy got the solution from is here : http://www.sevenforums.com/general-discussion/30470-make-bootable-iso-student-d-l.html
* * SOLUTION * *
There is a way to create an image file dispite recieving this error we seem to be all recieving.
1. You will need to use an additional Microsoft command-line tool, called Oscdimg.
Details here
Download here
Download the
2. You now need to start up your command prompt, which can be done by Start->Run then enter 'cmd' into the prompt. (Run as administrator if in Vista!)
3. You should now have the command prompt open, now you need to use the Oscdimg tool to create the image, by entering the following:
Oscdimg.exe -u2 -bC:\ \expandedSetup\boot\etfsboot.com -h C:\ \expandedSetup C:\ \Win7.iso
For example: Oscdimg.exe -u2 -bC:\Users\James\Downloads\expandedSetup\boot\etfsboot.com -h C:\ Users\James\Downloads \expandedSetup C:\ Users\James\Downloads \Win7.iso
It will now scan the source tree then begin creating the image. PLEASE note: you must replace ' ' appropriatly as to where you have downloaded the files.
4. You should now have an image file, called Win7.iso, in the same directory.
5. You can now burn this
6. Viola! You have your not so shiney Windows 7 disk. Restart your computer and install away!
- I take no acknowledgment for this, I dug about and found the info at: http://www.sevenforums.com/general-discussion/30470-make-bootable-iso-student-d-l.html Thanks SIW2
* Edited byNixonInnes Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:54 AMtypo's
* Edited byNixonInnes Thursday, October 22, 2009 9:02 AM
* Marked As Answer byKevin HauMSFT, ModeratorThursday, October 22, 2009 6:35 PM
* Edited byKevin HauMSFT, ModeratorThursday, October 22, 2009 9:52 PMstep to run CMD as admin
Navigate to:
Control Panel
Hardware and Sound
Desktop Malevolence Mode
Select "Good"
Reboot
Lotus Notes users may be required to restore the Desktop Malevolence Mode to "Evil."
I never had any problems with Vista, but my laptop was "modern" at the time. I didn't even think of installing it on my home computer, because it (at the time) was 5 years old When 7 came out, I built a new home box (quad core) and 7 installed just fine. As for my now 5 year old dual core laptop? 7 installed perfectly, no issues.
For games that would run in WINE, I did so. World of Warcraft in particular, as I nominally prefer a *NIX based environment (this same desktop has in its history been a dedicated Ubuntu box, a Hackintosh, and a Vista/Ubuntu dual boot) -- maybe "gaming desktop" was a misnomer. It's really my sandbox machine that gets wiped every so often and is the most often used box in the house.
Generally speaking, I like to use the right tool for the job. Work desktop? Ubuntu/XFCE. Dedicated server? Debian. HTPC? Mac Mini running Boxee. Home file server? Ubuntu Server. Laptop? Dualboot Win7/Ubuntu (for when I'm working remotely)
I'm satisfied enough with Windows 7 that I made it my "primary use" OS, though I'm considering going back to the Hackintosh with a dual boot.
It was the best of operating systems
Says who? I have yet to see a single human, that is not payed by Microsoft, say something that is even close to that.
It suggest, that you are also payed.
Also, the rhetoric device of the two sides, extrapolating a contrast where none is, is such an old hat, that you must be a real newbie in the business of viral marketing, to still use it.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
I get that with Windows "OK" buttons, so it's not just Linux.
PS you can drag windows around offscreen to get them back if you hold down (IIRC) the ALT key and drag the window.
I just RTFA by Dvorak. It's not an article about whether or not Windows 7 is a good OS. It's a criticism of Microsoft's marketing over the past few years.
The gist of it is that Dvorak is disappointed that Microsoft now cc's him on generic marketing e-mails instead of sucking up to him personally, and he thinks their ad campaigns are lame.
Overall, there's not much condemnation of Windows 7, and certainly no specific criticisms. In fact, he concludes by writing:
In the end, Windows 7 is a big deal - but it should be an even bigger deal.
Again, he is criticizing their marketing.
The reviews here are mixed, but usually reviews (especially on /.) of new Windows OSs are bad at first, taking at least 6-12 months to warm up to the product. I would say that bodes rather well for 7.
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
I haven't received a single personal note from a Microsoft PR person for roughly four years.
I didn't see any technical review by Dvorak in the article just a bunch of complaints about MSFT's marketing/PR efforts. Oddly I don't recall seeing a lot of PR from IBM regarding zOS either, but my zSeries keeps on running. Seems that he's just sore he hasn't received any TLC from MSFT. Aww poor Dvorak... sorry that your feelings got hurt.
Somebody send Ballmer ASAP to give this guy a hug.
Vista was more like a transition, while actually still being a good OS.
That is revisionist history in the extreme.
Despite all who liked Vista - and there were many - no, it was not a good operating system if you use simple consumer metrics: a) it frustrated people, b) it caused many working Windows systems to no longer work, c) it created confusion without end.
You can even use this simple product metric - it was so bad that the company that made it decided to call the fixed version by a completely different name.
At the risk of being modded down as a basher - and I'm not - I say this because it's REALITY.
You might want to disagree with me as a happy Vista user - but that makes my point. You might WANT for reality to have been that Vista was great and poor, poor Microsoft was unfairly slagged and misunderstood - but that is not Vista's history.
Do you even remember Longhorn? How that failed to materialize? How Vista was supposed to be all of the Longhorn goodness that was supposed to be ready for prime-time release? You do know that Vista wasn't just some follow-on to XP that didn't get a fair shake, yes? And if it was supposed to be the transition to anything, it would have been to the lauded claims of Longhorn?
Vista failed. Microsoft fixed it (we hope) - but it was such a failure, they had to rename it.
That was not the fault of Consumer Misunderstanding or poor Microsoft being bashed by the Spiteful Media or People Like Me.
It failed because too us could get it to work - and fewer still were those that got it working that didn't still prefer XP.
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
And I've used Windows from 3.0 to current, every version and every service pack level.
It's replaced the linux partition on my gaming desktop even.
Um. I think this was meant to be a joke. But who cares? Mod me down if you want.
I went to the new Microsoft store in Scottsdale and had a demo of Windows 7. The demonstrator was having a hard time covering up the fact it kept stalling and was even harder to find or get to anything than in Vista. When asked what the improvements were over Vista all he could do was point to some DVD editing app, show how you could shake windows to hide them, and to point out a new shortcut to a Microsoft internet sales portal. So basically nothing new in the OS itself other than a toy application and an internet shortcut designed to make you pay more to Microsoft.
The fundamental problem is that each new version of Windows keeps building more and more layers of 'features' and artificial views that just get in the way, and Windows 7 is no different. Its now at the point where you haven't got a clue where your files actually are on the disk any more or whats going on with the system any more. Instead of enabling users, they are treating them more and more like morons to be forced down a single path. With Windows 7 If your lifestyle, workflow, and file organisation preferences are in any way different to Microsoft's view of how you should live, act, and think, the system punishes you by being awkward and useless until you change your lifestyle to suit it.
Honestly, the trip to the Microsoft store to check out Windows 7 was the last chance I was giving Microsoft after having already wasted serious money on Vista. My options were to upgrade to Windows 7 or finally say goodbye to Microsoft forever. On the strength of what I saw at the Microsoft store I uninstalled Vista and have now moved entirely over to Ubuntu Linux as my main OS. I'm very happy and haven't looked back since.
On one hand, John Dvorak is saying something negative about Microsoft.
On the other hand, I would have to agree with something that troll John Dvorak thinks.
He does not complain about anything of any importance to anyone in the known universe.
His biggest gripe with Windows 7?
I haven't received a single personal note from a Microsoft PR person for roughly four years.
Well shit-a-doodle-doo Mr. Dvorak, sir, that really is not something anyone gives a flying fuck about. You, not getting valentine letters from MS marketing department.
So there you have it.
Good thing Microsoft didn't feel like pandering to Mr. Dvorak's ego, or he might have actually talked about Win7's feature or two he (dis)likes.
Then you really might have been in a pickle.
This way, he said nothing of any importance about Microsoft or Windows AND AT THE SAME TIME he upgraded his troll status with some whiner points.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Seriously -- does anybody still listen to Dvorak's douche-baggery these days?
'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
Dvorak gets paid loads by Martini. Now you know why.
-- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
What did you use to calculate with such "precision"?
A Pentium?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
The referenced Dvorak column seems to be more a complaint about his the lack of personal love he's getting from MS than it does about Windows. Boo, f'in, hoo.
i give it 7
Wouldn't a much simpler - and more honest - solution to the piracy you're advocating be to simply get people to switch to Opera or Firefox?
And let's be clear - you claim to be a web developer. So the pages you develop have nothing to do with anyone's products or ideas? You couldn't simply sense IE 6, state that it's not fully supported on your pages, and put in friendly links to Opera, Firefox, Safari, Chrome or the Microsoft Win7 homepages?
No - you come here and advocate piracy.
How about we track down every page you've developed, copy the source for public consumption, and tell the people that you work for that you don't believe that people who work for a living putting out software products should get paid for their efforts if it makes your life harder.
Sheesh!
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
if you look at snow leopard or most new linux releases(ubuntu specifically), they are basically the same. Minor GUI tweaks, performance enhancements and other minor things. All coming with additional hardware/software support. So stop the BS, and just say that most of the new OS's released in the past year are all minor. Stop bashing MS or even apple and just enjoy the ride...
It's nice to think that Microsoft cared enough to set up a booth across the street from the Japan Linux Symposium but it shows some seriously inflated ego. Looking at the picture, you can see that it's a Yodobashi Camera booth. Yodobashi have booths like that one for every major brand.
Dvorak is pissed that Microsoft PR flacks no longer kiss his ass. He's irrelevant and knows it. If Microsoft assigned a personal PR person to him he'd undoubtedly change his tune. I wouldn't if I were them.
OK, I have no problem with anyone saying Windows 7 is faster than XP. I've never actually seen Windows 7. But I have noticed this gem.
My laptop was disabled due to the cooling fans being completely blocked and my inability to find the 3 hidden screws to finally open the case. So I hooked up my old desktop, a Celeron 300MHz running Windows 95. When I finally got the laptop running, I could not believe how much slower a Pentum 4M 3.2 GHz with 4 times as much memory was at basic file manipulation. I'm not talking about running any programs, but just open folder move/copy/delete files. I have all visual effect turned off in XP, no thumbnail views, all explorer toolbars and options off, and all power options to Never turn off. Windows 95, double click on a folder and you see the contents before you can get your finger off the button. Same with moving, copying and deleting files, click and done. Everything responds instantly. Windows XP, click and wait. Tried shutting off everything, no wireless, no antivirus or anti spyware, nothing at all running at startup on a clean install, and still nothing responds as quickly.
Can anyone tell me why a computer that is 10 times faster with 4 times the memory is so much slower at responding to simple inputs? There's a perceptible lag when just single clicking a desktop icon to highlight it.
I liked computers so much better when the most important thing was reacting to what I was telling it to do.
There needs to be a Stop button, as in "stop doing everything that you're doing so you can respond to what I'm telling you to do right now."
This sentence no verb.
under the hood, 7 is very different to Vista.
At last, Microsoft tries to deliver the usability of Linux DEs to the Windows crowd too.
Unfortunately, their main sources were apparently anti-Linux troll posts on /. so they though it must be the need to use the console that makes Linux so great.
For cheap vodkas, I drink Platinum 7. Filtered 7 times, and tastes just as good in a mixed drink as any of the more expensive vodkas.
As for Windows 7, I've only spent 5 minutes with it on a laptop that previously ran Vista. It's much quicker and more stable, so in comparison to Vista, a vast improvement.
Will it replace XP Pro on my development computers? Not anytime soon.
First I have heard of that. And I have been using computers since the 90s (just as a joe sixpack user, not professional at all). Not an admin or programmer, but never realized you could recover hidden or obscured windows like that, and yes, I have been nailed with that before with rank resolution then trying to fix it. I have different skill sets, as do tons of other people, what seems obvious and old hat to some might be brand new and not known about to others, just depends. Hidden entry fields off the screen are a REAL annoyance, I can see if people didn't know how to alt drag they would just give up and reinstall. And you can't resize from the top,(why not, why can't you resize windows from the top like you can from the bottom??) so if the bottom is hidden, you are screwed.
And this is why the old idea of boxed sets with a damn printed out dead trees manual with USEFUL information like that, not just rehashed MAN pages, should come with operating systems, not just a factory install and nothing else, or just download some ISO and burn it and install it and cross your fingers. If the information you *need* for an emergency repair is only on the machine itself, or you need to go online to find out, and you can't get to it because the machine is now dysfunctional, it is useless. It's the real little things like that taken as an aggregate that really turn people off of new and shiny. Once they get something that works, they are relucant to change it and DAMN I just don't get it why computer professionals and designers can't grok this. They are shipping stuff that is suitable for them to use, not others it seems, yet they want it to be good enough to be a commercial product.
You know, people aren't that cheap, they can and will drop coin on a product as long as it doesn't suck and as long as it is very easy to find out exactly how to fix little annoyances like that or how to actually use this or that application, etc.
If people were willing to re-learn an OS and developers would re-write all their applications, I have little doubt Linux would have majority marketshare.
Appple and Microsoft began with the client OS. Their target the non-technical end-user. That was over thirty years ago.
The recent hoo-rah here over Pulse Audio made crystal clear that to this day the geek doesn't always understand what is required to compete in this sector -
or even if he wants to try.
"Microsoft tried to torpedo the success of the Japan Linux Symposium by launching their Windows 7 product that same day. They even had setup a big promotion booth across the street from the conference center."
Really? You think that?
I suggest that you Google "Farhad Manjoo" + Microsoft. You will find clear evidence that he is a Microsoft Poodle. You can find dozens of places where he is obviously shilling for Microsoft. Don't trust a damn thing this "Farhad Manjoo" jackass says.
Cheap Vodka can be better than major brands... seriously, everyone knows that.
There's no olives in Windows 7. I wish there were. I love olives.
Windows 7 is better than Vista. Its actually a very nice version of Windows, worthy of leaving XP which seems primative now.
I wish Microsoft would for once and for all, provide a real backup solution. Windows 7's backup is good, but you can only have one back up task. Which yet again makes it worthless. Baby Steps... Baby Steps.... oops Baby hit his head again... when will he learn?... oops there he goes again.
Why are people still wasting their time on Microsoft? I gave up on them a long time ago and have not regretted it. The corporation I work for switched all developers to Macs. What a joy. Hearing you accept all the compromises that come with Windows, it's clear that you're not thinking. Anything is better than Microsoft.
Oh good. Yet another iteration of a Microsoft product. They can't just add features or make the old ones better; they have to put them in new places. Take the "Run" command and put it somewhere new. Change the Control Panel. Screw up the Networking configuration screens beyond belief. Change for change's sake. They do this crap in all their products not just the OS; Outlook, Office, etc. It's to the point that customers don't want to upgrade because they don't want to have to re-learn everything.
People ask me how I can remember all the Unix/Linux command line instructions and I tell them that it's easy. They have not changed much in 25 years. Once you learn them, you've learned them.... all you need is to learn any new ones or any new switches to the old, reliable commands. Contrast this with every Microsoft product ever stole...er, innovated where you'll find new locations for old commands. We know what we need to do but we can't find the stupid command to click on to make it work.
MS has truly lost their way. The single greatest Apple commercial was the one where John Hodges decided to put all the money on PR and spend nothing to fix the product. It's so typical.
No one ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke!
Of course, I had expected from someone that rants for a living would be able to distinguish the difference between 'then' and 'that'.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
Clearly, Windows 7 is for those who don't know any other OS. It might do the job from keeping the clueless from looking for the alternative, which is Microsoft's major goal now. But for those of us who have already switched there is no reason to even look at this OS. The fundamental flaws won't go away. Ever.
Now, even if you don't think about the price which is IMO ridiculously high... There is no LiveCD's for me to test my hardware: some of it isn't officially supported and the need to re-partition my HDD (and the need to repair GRUB afterwards) just to see how it works and whether it works at all... It's just too much hassle. Neither can I install the OS on an USB stick. Hell, I boot Linux from an ExpressCard SSD right now, overall speed increase is astronomical, but Win7 won't even install there. On top of this, I have to pay for a copy in order to test (yeah, I have missed the "free" RC1, now what?).
Software is still has to be installed one-by-one and you either have to upgrade all the pieces one-by-one too or deal with dozens of independent updaters. Not to mention the dire need for extra protection resulting in more software one has to install manually.
As for usability (something that could be fixed) -- where the hell are my goddamn virtual desktops?! Text copy on select so I can paste with a middle mouse button?
Last but not least -- Alt-dragging/resizing a window. A killer feature if you are using a touchpad (which I am). It's not there.
No, you won't return to Windows land because of 7 if you're using something else.
I wont waste my time even trying Win7 until Win7sp2 or Win7sp3
is out and ppl that i trust tell me it's worth something.
I also need to see several independant benchmarks on
both old and new hardware. Versus XP3Pro+Avira and TweakedXP3Pro+Avira
and against Linux+WINE and so on.
By that time Windows8 has already begun replacing Windows7 ?
Farhad sold his soul for money after joining Slate. Not worth reading his maximum page view, advertiser oriented, bullshit anymore.
I am sick and tired of new Windows systems. If I have adapted to one of their systems like XP or Win98, why not just fix those for users who don't want to change all the software they like and are still using? I guess I'll switch to Apple or maybe Linux. I still have DOS programs I like to run, some being my own.
Will users of, say, AutoCAD or Photoshop be forced to upgrade their OS in order to run later versions of those applications? How about new games: will Vista and/or Windows 7 be obligatory just to play them?
If not, why bother spending money on a new OS, and new hardware just to run the new OS, if your current WinXP setup works fine?
Ha! Exactly what a "pretty dedicated Windows user" would say.
Vodka used to be considered a liqueur and not counted with rums, whiskies and gins. By definition, a "martini" is a cocktail made with gin and vermouth. Nowadays, any abomination served in the characteristic glass is called a "martini" or something-"tini". Many argue that a single liquor in a glass does not constitute a "cocktail", so a really, really, really dry vodka martini is simply an expensive shot of vodka. And thus civilization continues its rapid descent . . .
Windows 7 is full of exciting enterprise features. Why doesn't anyone talk about those?
...and read: "Microsoft tried to torpedo the success of the Japan Linux Symposium by launching their Windows 7 product that same day".
I hope that was as much of a joke as Linus posing for a photo there.
Even so, there are too many tongues in too many cheeks - I'm a bit worried about catching something...
With all the build-up of useless registry files, .DLL's and a plethora of other problems, especially with Vista, I don't know why anyone would UPGRADE to windows 7.
It has always been recommended to FORMAT and clean install! I think it's ridiculous that Microsoft even sells upgrade disks. Upgrading is not really more convenient if it causes more problems in the long run. Everyone should know that for the best stability and performance, just do a clean install. I understand that they sell upgrade disks because they believe the people who already purchased earlier versions should pay less for their license, but upgrading an OS is stupidity.
If money is the issue, there are many ways around that to get a licensed copy of 7 legally. This article mentions something about student upgrades? Students can get MSDN accounts through academic alliance. I don't see what the problem is. I have never and never will upgrade a Windows platform. Take the extra time to backup your stuff, and JUST CLEAN INSTALL IT!
I've been running the RC for a few months, I like it.
That is only because YOU do not remember these WELL DOCUMENTED shortcuts, You want secrets, use Windoze, and its god awful registry.
I am writing this on a laptop and have 20 desktops open, and 6 have Firefox with about 5 tabs open ~ 100 contexts, at once, which is how I like to work.
The secret keys are user modifiable, and documented in the Control Centre, and if I want an unusual one, eg BreakInputGrab, which I have not self configured in my keymap, which allows me to configure my keyboard so I can program and write in US/UK English, French and German, with a QWERTY keyboard.
Grüß(courtesy Slashdot, you should really get this right), Brian
ALT drag is soo useful
but that is not the biggest pain in Windoze, that is Click to Focus (in Windows) not Focus follows Mouse, and to fix that common consumer choice you have to Regedit keys which seem to change with each version of MS Windows, TweekUI?
That's the shallowest legitimate attempt to make sense of Microsoft marketing I've come across in years.
I'm reminded of the episode where Schlomo Teittleman accuses Tony Soprano of being a living golem. Teittleman creates the golem through a deal with Tony to deprive his ex son-in-law of his divorce settlement. Tell me, who created this "magic sticker" program in the first place?
From Microsoft e-mails reveal Intel pressure over Vista
Apparently, not all of the back-pressure came from the down trodden, and there was a clear second option: delay Vista-capable until Intel could ship the 945 in volume. Pretty risky, counting on Intel to meet volume targets.
Their second golem-making move was to set Vista up as a mandatory upgrade, so you got Vista whether you were happy enough with XP or not and then quoting Vista adoption figures as if it was a blockbuster out of the gate, fooling no one of any importance.
Finally--since I don't wish to continue all day--how could any sane company manage to screw up its QA relationship with nVidia while releasing an OS where the promoted benefit to end user is a more advanced graphical user interface?
Microsoft decided to push Vista into the marketplace where the customers didn't want it, and their partners weren't yet ready to fully support it. Major partners like Intel and nVidia.
It should have been handled more like the Windows 2000 roll-out. Let the losers continue to run Windows 98 if they're happy enough with it, force the issue with Windows XP when there's not much left to complain about. Imagine how the Windows 2000 roll-out would have gone if they'd discontinued selling Windows 98 pre-installed, without providing a stable nVidia driver, while Intel was still pushing volume on chipsets with no AGP support.
Even Microsoft's internal communication sounded a lot like a NASA engineer's memo from the launch pad declaring "I've got a bad feeling about this".
Windows 7 is not what Vista should have been, but rather when Vista should have been. A less arrogant refresh in between would have served the day. Was the entire MS marketing department too clueless to type Itanium, RDRAM, Caminogate, or Prescott into the Google search bar? A fine education in Golem 101 was there for the taking.
A little background about me.... ... started in Acess and VB and moved in to NET and SQL.
I've been using Windows since Windows 386 - I even played with Windows 286 for 10 minutes. I really started using Windows all the time with 3.0 . OK... so I've been using it since the mid to late 80's . I'm a microsoft developer by trade
Vista , and now Windows 7, pushed me over to purchase a Macbok Pro. I've always admired the UI on those machines but Windows have been good enough and heaven knows it made me enough money.
So I try Vista 2 years ago. SLOW... excruciatingly bad user interface - Am I sure? Yes. Am I sure that I'm sure...? {sigh} I tried it 3 different times - couldn't take it more than a couple weeks. Transferring several gigs of info through the Explorer interface was a minimum of 5 times slower than in XP. Am I sure? Yes {sigh}
So I stick with XP and maintain Vista o a VM for when I have to test with it which is NEVER because NONE of my corporate clients are using it.
So I try Windows 7 about 2 months ago. Looks Pretty ! And it's not asking me if I'm sure it looks pretty every 2 minutes. It looks pretty right up till the time I go into Control Panel. Now it's not looking as nice. WTF? It's Control Panelzilla! Ahhhhh! And look how many new ways I have of sharing things. But you know what? I just want to share a fracking folder. I have a home group now too. I also have more things in my root drive than I ever wanted to see. Ever. Including lots of symbolic links. Which don't seem to be able to be handling correctly in Explorer. You haven't liven until you've seen a file path like "User Data/User/Data/User/ Data/ User data.... ad infinitum . Frack that. Oh ... and it's still slow. And it crashed on mee 5 times the first week.
So I get a MAc book Pro. A little over 900 bucks. It's light ... it's engineered well and the UI makes me wanna cry tears of joy. And it is faster on 2 gigs of memory and a 2.1 processor than my idiot HP 9700 was with Vista on 4 gigs and a 2.6 processor. MUCH faster. And I can run XP on it beautifully though I never do.
So I'm no longer a NET programmer. The same companies who NEVER adopted Vista (ummm... like all of them?) will NEVER adopt Win 7 - for the very same reasons. I think they will flock to something else. Linux? Maybe Macc? Maybe. Personally , I think they're screwed. Me? I'm learning Objective C and LAMP technologies and am going to reinvent myself programaticaly speaking. I'm through with MS. It's been a nice long ride bit it's over.
I've been around a while. I've seen IBM go from the major supplier of PCs and OS... to a non-player. Why? Because they thought they were gods and forgot they were just a corporation. They forgot they couldn't dictate what their clients wanted forever.
Think the paradigm can't shift?
Think again.
----- In Your Cubicle No One Can Hear You Scream...
Windows 7 .... the KFC of the computer world.
----- In Your Cubicle No One Can Hear You Scream...
Although the feeling is not universal, several Windows admins with whom I work have told me they like Windows 7. This is the first time in a while I have heard any of them say they actually like a Microsoft OS.
Computer Science is all about trying to find the right wrench to bang in the right screw. -T.Cumbo?
> You need a new profession if you can't make Vista stable.
Well, lucky me I already got a new profession, since just last week:
1) I watched Vista run like molasses to open a ppt-xls combo with graphs and tables inserted on the ppt. This after seeing XP open them without any delay. OTOH, if something doesn't move, it's stable, ain't it?
2) A coworker of mine couldn't log off of Vista: it said something like "Program Manager" or "Computer" not responding -- which means "quiet" which in turn is somewhat stable itself, too, ain't it?
> Windows hasn't crashe-prone since pre-XP, end of story.
If you're forced to use Windows, I pity you -- and advise you to take action against such opression; now, IMHO, sorry but those who choose Windows voluntarily are simply morons (idiots, if you will).
End of story for you, too.
Stable my dog's a...
Former Linux advocate.
Linux is unusable, compared to Windows 7.
Absolutely. Unusuable. Linux is only fit to be installed as a system where you will likely never need to mess with it's software ever again after you have it running.
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
If I pretend Vista never happened and I'm going straight from XP to 7, 7 is good.
It seems that we've implicitly accepted TPM. I wonder how long until the screws get tightened.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
That is in the control panel in 7, I believe it was in Vista. It's also been a feature of windows since 3.0.
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
Isn't every new windows version the 'best version' of windows we've used so far?
Interesting. I can't even USE Firefox on a computer with less than 8Gig of RAM. How do you live?
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
Win2k has go to be my favorite MS OS of all time. It is stable, runs everything flawlessly for the most part, is low on system resources for the most part, and basically it just works. What is there to hate?
So why did the mass market go with XP then? My opinion matters very little it seems especially when the market does not agree with me.
I'm sure everyone reading this knows that for the most part XP is nothing but a gui overhal from win2k. There is little to no difference except XP consumes much more ram than 2k because of the gui.
So here I am conflicted again for the exact same reason when it comes to Vista and 7. 7 is like the 2k and Vista is like the XP. If your system matches spec then both will benchmark nearly identical in every way.
So why are people so hyped up about 7? Do all consumers seem to care about is the GUI? It drives me nuts! I can understand that if you have 2gigs of ram or less 7 will perform better but other than that is there really that much of a difference? How can the mass market hate one thing while loving another yet they are both one in the same just wearing a different skin.
This whole situation makes me want to yell hypocrite for anyone who hates vista but loves 7. The catch is I love 7 and hate vista myself...
Windows 7 seems like a more refined XP to me. I skipped Vista so I can't make a comparison there. I installed it on a 5-year-old mb and 2.8GHz P4 and 1GB RAM and it runs fine. The only serious issue I've had is that if I move a window which is playing video (e.g. VLC or WMP) off the top of the screen it locks the video card up, but that's almost certainly a driver issue (XP video drivers are the only ones available). I had a minor issue with mIrc, but the Help-system-suggested resolution was actually relevant and correct. So far it seems to run everything I want just fine, but there's nothing really compelling about it over XP. And, no, the chess game and Mah-jongg don't count.
Oh, how our memories fail us....
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
That irritated me too. And the other guy was not as much gushing about Windows 7 as trying desperately to cover up some Mac envy that he hopes is far more deeply repressed than it seems to be. "Oh, sure Mac OS X has been doing this for years, but Windows 7 is better I SWEAR--DON'T GIVE ME ANOTHER SHOT, GLORIOUS LEADER!"
Both of these articles were awful.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
So to make your job easier, you want people to pirate Windows 7 just for the IE8 support? Really?
Wouldn't it be easier for them to just, I don't know, install IE8 instead of a whole new OS?
I dunno, after reading Dvorak's screed, I'm guessing that he is just sad that if are no junkets where "journalists" like him are invited to Vegas, receive their talking points, and then go gamble and drink afterward. No more Comdex. No more twenty-foot high convention center displays. No more huge ad-revenue funded parties where vendors "give back" to the publications that so shameless promoted them.
Good riddance.
I'm not going to get into the whole Linux/MacOS/Windows mess, but talk about the Dvorak article. Manjoo at least looks at the OS and gives his opinions on it. Dvorak talks about the marketing that M$ does and does not once actually review the OS. He doesn't say one thing good or bad based on the OS itself. He bases his entire opinion on the marketing. That isn't journalism in any manner whatsoever. It is purely a crack pot writing what he thinks things are based purely on his opinion with no facts.
I have to heartily agree. While 7's internals aren't radically different from Vista's, they don't have to be. Vista is a fantastic OS; 7's reception cements the fact that a horribly mangled launch and a successful demonization of Vista by Apple drove perception of Vista into the gutter. This makes 7 a rather ironic system; the people who believe that their computers are running horribly simply because they have Vista will possibly purchase 7, and be happy with the negligibly 'improved' performance that is more or less only psychological, while the technically inclined will be hard pressed to part with the cash for seven when all it immediately brings is a new UI (torrents/ MSDN(AA) notwithstanding). However, the redesigned UI makes me loathe to use any other OS, period. I've even given up on Linux for the time being (KDE 4 was a little more usable than Vista in some ways, but can't compete with 7), and just run xming and putty to ssh -X into a university-provided cluster for Unix work.
I'd like to chime in and say it lowered my ASUS G1S notebook's standard operating temperature up to 30-40 degrees celsius. It lowered my sister's HP notebook's standard operating temperature by 20 degrees. Both are as reported by CPUID's HWMonitor
Additionally, file operations function, again (wtf, Vista? You can't even copy correctly?), so there's no more random freezing when you're trying to copy or delete a bunch of files, or even one file, for that matter.
Lastly, read/write speeds to my external HDD have doubled. Consistently doubled.
On the battery side, Vista SP1 and above actually had remarkably good battery life, and Windows 7 does the same.
I'm very happy with Windows 7. May Windows Vista rot forever in hell.
To me, Dvorak has always seemed to me like the Bill O'Reilly of the PC world. If you're a super-conservative bare-bones PC nut, you think he's awesome. If you don't really care and just want your computer to do what you want it to do, and to you "GUI" isn't a bad word, then Dvorak is a bastard.
Mostly it sounded like Dvorak was annoyed that he wasn't being treated like the big cheese that he thinks he is:
Of course. If a pundit has the cheek to do anything but write cries of hossana about ${THE_LATEST_MICROSOFT_PRODUCT}, they shut him the fuck off. Look at Manjoo working for Microsoft's Slate. Of course their own magazine will praise their products. Manjoo would get the axe if he didn't toe the line. Dvorak's big enough to be a threat and experienced enough to know that Microsoft has delivered crap year after year while at the same time promising the moon and the stars on a platter.
He's also patriotic enough to see what Bill Gate's political movement is doing to his country.
Does he have a new rival?
Is Mr Qwerty now the big cheese?
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
kept reading Viri7. Enjoy your life you "Windows 7 viri" (as in "Socratici viri").
The way I see it -- the way my old man always saw it -- is that Microsofts marketing and branding strategy, though dated, makes sense. Ordinary People (TM) are prepared to pay Big Money (R) to get a faster and fresher computer, and if they need to bin their four year old XP machine for a brand new Vista to get it, then that is just the way it is and they accept it. To Computer Nerds (GPL) this stings, because we know that those four year old computers still have a lot of life in them, and that XP can be a quite decent OS if tweaked properly. If Microsoft made the effort to gradually upgrade their products once every other year that would probably eliminate a significant chunk of computer hardware sales. But the loser would be Microsofts most important partners, the hardware manufacturers.
Now the way that my old man sees it is that Windows 7 is a real improvement as far as interface is concerned. Everything from the file structure to basic user interactions such as dialogs or the taskbar and Explorer seem matured and polished. I've been testing Win 7 RC for a couple of weeks, and although I had many stability issues the first week, I'm now completely convinced to make the switch from XP. Right now I'm running it on a Gigabyte GC-230D board with Intel Atom chips (1,6 Ghz CPU) and 2GB ram, Aero turned on, and it performs acceptably. And this comes from the guy who ran Windows 95 until well into 2003, for the fear of XP being another Windows 97, 98, or god forbid Me.
As for the licensing and intrusion issues I have nothing to comment, other than this time around I won't be able to afford to buy a legit copy, so my usage will be determined by the availability of working free copies.
I really like macs, even though most of my client development work is for PCs. I've been running a MacBook with Parallels and a couple of virtual PC installs for a while, and over the last couple of months I've been looking at replacing my desktop machine and going down the serious virtualization route (and I wanted a three screen setup too)
My choice - A Mac Pro, a PC with Windows 7 or a PC with Ubuntu. I've a couple of retiring desktops one running Vista SP2 and one Unbuntu 9.04
I really wanted to go with the Mac, I really did. But I priced the hardware up. My spec - a 2.6 Ghz I7, 6Gb Ram, 2 x 1Tb HD, two graphics cards and cables came to £2,527. I built the same spec (actually slightly better, and more esily upgradable) with PC hardware for £950 and then paid an extra £200 to renew my Microsoft MAPS license which gives me 1 copy of Win7 Ultimate and 10 of Win7 Professional (of which I'll use three, and I'm deploying the 64 bit version) so the total cost for the Windows machine is around £1,100.
Having been using Win7 for a couple of days now my opinion is that it's not as good as Snow Leopard, but it feels pretty snappy and is more than usable. Certainly it's a lot less intrusive than Vista. I would have paid the premium for Apple, but when that premium was a whole £1,400 - i.e. a whopping 127% - then it's just not feasible.
And why not Ubuntu instead of Windows? Well that's shear practicality - I've been running one of my main development machines under Ubuntu for over a year now, it's great when working on linux web servers as terminal mode just fits better and it's great to have around so it's not being retired (just moved to the end of the desk and dropped from two screen to one) but the lack of Cloudmark spam filter running on Thunderbird, reliable Dreamweaver under wine or anything else, and ditto Photoshop means it wasn't quite in the running.
So my opnion - Mac is still the best OS when you look at just the OS, but factor in the hardware and unless money is really no object then Win7 wins - unfortunatly.
I love anti-Linux circle jerks on slashdot articles and zealots saying how Windows is so superior yet Windows lacks even a modicum of finesse that Kubuntu Linux has. Kubuntu Linux hands down beats any OS I've used including the several large editions of Windows I've used (Windows 7 Starter, Windows 7 Home Premium, Windows 7 Professional, Windows 7 Ultimate). It works, has almost no driver problems so things Just Work (TM), and is god damn stable. It's better than any Linux OS ever released. The new UI while played down as "nothing major" by you Microsoft zealots makes the workflow of Kubuntu Linux much faster and more intuitive than OS X or Windows is currently capable of. Not only that, the potential that software devs have is enormous with being able to integrate jumplists and stuff right into their taskbar icons and start menu. Have any of you anti-Linux zealots even used Linux since Redhat 4.0? Live in the now, man.
I love how that fit perfectly on the other-side of the spectrum too.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
I think it's intentional.
MSFT *knows* there isn't a single compelling reason for anyone to move off of XP, and everyone would REALLY rather have XP fixed than to go through another upgrade cycle.
But MSFT also knows that without that upgrade cycle their revenues are gonna be hurting.
So. The do the whole "XP replacement" (Windows 7), and then back out some of the better changes (Vista), release that to overwhelming derision, and then slowly un-revert the code, releasing the beta and RC versions, resulting in the eventual release of Windows 7.
BUT. The get ahead of all the negative. "Oh, THAT was Vista.. This is Windows 7. It's got ELECTROLYTES!"
Technology -- No Place For Wimps! Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia Chatroom -- http://www.wemissjerry.org
The reason why mainstream media is hyping Windows 7 so much is: imagine what would happen if it tanked?
Microsoft shares would start to fall in price, then there would be lots of "knock-on" effects - and maybe even panic selling of all kinds of (possibly unrelated) stocks. Microsoft share price has been one of the most reliable things on the stock exchange.
So we have to keep Microsoft share price up. Buy a new computer, if you have to.
I know it might be difficult, particularly if you have lost your job - but try to look at the bigger picture.
If share prices don't keep on rising, how will pension funds continue to make money?
Ok, so you don't have a job, so don't have a pension - but try to look at the bigger picture.
Pension Fund administrators have jobs and they could lose their pensions - or even their jobs!
And then what would we do?
So far, my experience on Win7 is excellent... apk
Well, in response to yourself (& thus, by "osmosis", Mr. Dvorak as well)? Per my subject-line above, Windows 7's been REALLY GOOD (so far @ least)!
For what it's worth, I'll say how EXACTLY so far @ least, why I state this.
First off, some 'background' - I was the guy that yelled @ MS about removing 0 as a blocking IP address in HOSTS files in VISTA/Server 2008 + yes, Windows 7 on their "Engineering Windows 7" blog @ MS, here:
----
http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/02/25/feedback-and-engineering-windows-7.aspx
&
http://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2008/12/02/engineering-windows-7-2/
----
Where I pointed out that the folks @ ROOTKIT.COM said that unhooking the now 'single part' "base filtering engine" (WFP) is simpler/easier to do for cracker/malware maker types than was the Windows 2000/XP/Server2003 3 part model (ipsec.sys (ip security policies), ipnat.sys (NAT driver for the firewall) & ipfltdrv.sys (port filtering VIA A SEPARATE DRIVER (ipfltdrv.sys) - this is the part that is GONE now as a separate-discrete added 'layer of defense', in VISTA/Server 2008/Windows 7 & I am able to 'research that now', now that I am using Win7).
That method, used in Windows 2000 (bit diff. here, in that the LSP is RDR20.DLL, unlike XP/Server 2003), Windows XP, & Windows Server 2003, which "layered" around the tcpip.sys & entire IP Stack in a 3-way locking system, ala a "zone defense/greek phalanx" type formation, much as how folks use such redundancy on their doors in their homes, ala a 'deadbolt, chainlock, & door handle lock' type formation, for layered protection/security! It is a SOUND model, & works in warfare, sports, & also as most of you know, pretty well in 'home defense'/security as well. Else, why do it?
Also, I 'yelled' that HOSTS files can no longer use 0 as a blocking IP address in HOSTS files (which is smaller & faster to read into memory either via the local DNS client cache, OR the diskcaching kernel mode subsystem) in both replies URL's I posted above @ MS + INTEL... with good reason, imo @ least! Speed is important, but security online nowadays, ESPECIALLY NOWADAYS, is the most important factor...
Why?
Well because from 12/09/2008 onwards (a MS "Patch Tuesday") in VISTA, you could no longer use 0 as a blocking 'IP Address', where you COULD before that, & using 0 is better/faster/more efficient for those purposes than is the larger & slower 0.0.0.0 + worse yet, 127.0.0.1. Any coder can tell you that & common sense should in any file during its File Open/Read-Write/Close I-O cycle, where a file like this one is read in line by line in strings until a cr+lf or null term'd string is encounted & the next line is read-in in a loop.
(Incidentally - Using a 0 based blocking "pseudo IP address" to do so, resolves to 0.0.0.0 though on pinging sites blocked by it, bad sites like known malware scripted ones &/or botnet "command & control servers" as examples thereof, & yes, to block out adbanners (which slow you down AND have been found to harbor 'malscript' the past few years now many times in fact))
You gain BOTH extra added speed by not viewing adbanners (and by 'hardcoding' your fav. sites into it, ala "slashdot.org 216.34.181.45", so calling out to make the 30-60ms roundtrip call to DNS servers (potentially compromised redirected ones, ala Dan Kaminsky's findings all last year & even DJBDNS being "taken down" & found vulnerable no less) speeding you up furthermore by avoiding that, & taking only 7-10ms instead (calling it out of the local HOSTS file instead, & once cached (4kb reads via memmgt passes)? The speed of RAM (1000's of times faster either in the local DNS client cache, or diskcache), into the NS range!))
Well - MS didn't fix either one (on the findings of ROOTKIT.COM @ least afaik, but for SURE on the HOSTS file issue I point
So to make your job easier, you want people to pirate Windows 7 just for the IE8 support? Really?
Wouldn't it be easier for them to just, I don't know, install IE8 instead of a whole new OS?
A huge portion of remaining IE6 users can't install IE8 or FF because they are in a managed corporate (or government) network environment, and their admins haven't wanted to upgrade the environment yet, retest intranet aplications etc. They stayed off the Vista cycle, but will for many reasons evaluate a Win7 upgrade, that of course will include IE8 (this is not the pirate argument of the OP, but he/she is right in that Win7 is the hope to get rid of IE6)
I think Windows 7 should be a patch to Windows Vista.
Or better, M$ should recall Windows Vista and then give Windows 7 for free.
I can remember going to a Vista beta launch and MS carrying on about how sleep was fixed. No more trouble waking up. Yeah. Still blows. my friend's HP laptop absolutely cannot function after waking up from sleep. The only USB thing that will work is the mouse. Nothing else works. Wireless internet also won't wake up.
I use Firefox on a Win98 laptop with only 0.01 gig of RAM (96 MB).
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Is convincing my computer-phobe uncle to get a Broadband connection so I don't have to waste time learning how to configure a POTS modem properly. And drop AOL. He complains that it's slower to browse using his new PC. Which is a cheap POS from Office Depot, but still, it's better than the Windows ME junkbox he is using. But it's slower visiting his tractor sites. Why? I don't know. Is it the modem in his new PC being junk? Poor configuration? Some change in AOL? Some firewall issue that is going on? Some antivirus thing?
I don't know. I don't even want to take the time to know. I just want to get him to use Broadband like any sane person. Fortunately his electric power company is putting in fiber to the home. So you know what? He'll get that. And he'll like it.
It'll just be a matter of selling it to him. Much like selling a chainsaw to the guy used to using his axe. Pray with me folks. Pray with me. We must exorcise the Windows ME demon! We must!
Of course, here I am, sitting on a porch, trying to reach a wireless access point some 300+ feet away and hoping it works long enough for me to post. So maybe my problem isn't with Windows 7.
Maybe I'm just jealous that Hicktown is getting fiber.
I'm aware that Microsoft released some patches, and bundled some into so called "service packs". But even Microsoft seems to be saying that Vista is still bad, thus people need to go out and buy a replacement. But if you already paid for Vista and never got a decent workable OS, why should you be expected to pay again for the supposedly fixed version with a different name?
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
I think Windows 7 may be an improvement over Vista simply based Vista's failure.
For any new OS, you need a rationale for that OS. Ideally, you NEVER need a new OS. After all, any proper OS is designed with full modularity in mind... you can plug in new stuff and it just works.
There's no downside to make an "New OS" in the FOSS community.. you're always free to take some of the new and bolt it on to what you already have.
In the commercial sector, there are other forces. Sometimes they benefit the consumer, sometimes not-so-much. With Windows in particular, though, they have an obliged new OS date.. every 3 or 4 years, the OEMs want a new OS to push hardware sales, simply because there is a class of consumer that thinks (or can be made to think) they need a new OS, but they're too timid to try installing said new OS on their existing PC. Plus, they bought an entry-level XP PC five years ago for $500, the Windows upgrade is over $100, but they can get a much better entry level PC today for $350.
Microsoft's Prime Directive in recent times, if not always, has been "Ensure Our Domination". So, when you look at a list of ideas for the next OS, it runs something like this:
1. Get something out the door, now, to make Dell, HP, et al happy. ....
2. Compatible enough with last version, so they have no excuse to jump platform, thus keeping us in power.
3. Change driver model, to keep those hardware companies doing what we tell them, thus keeping us in power.
4. Any other new technologies that keep us in power.. what about that Web thing?
5. Make friends with Hollywood, via DRM, to keep us in power
6. Eye candy and other bright shiny objects to fool consumers into upgrades
7. Gaming and video enhancements, to make stuff play well on Windows, to keep us in power
100. Wasn't there a bug list somewhere.
The proper list, more or less, would be more like this:
1. Fix all bugs that require major architectural changes in order to fix correctly (all other bugs were of course fixed with free updates). ...
2. Cool new features to make users lives easier.
3. Cool new features to make programmer's lives easier.
4. Bug fixes for 2,3.. before release.
The problem with Microsoft is that, basically, new releases have never been about users. Why do I want to update? Well, I don't... ever. Traditionally, MS has found a way to force the issues... new apps won't run in the old OS, we know of horrible bugs we'll never fix, no new device drivers for that new thing that's out, we aren't supporting that new bus, whatever. The attention to users has largely been "find a bright shiny object for them"... we need them, but they're stupid, so we can trick them into upgrades.
That worked, for quite some time. It failed with Vista... perhaps because of the bugs in Vista, but I do recall a bug list for XP at some 20,000+ known bugs. It got better.
It seems like, certainly to the functional failure of Vista. If the new OS doesn't overtake the old one in installed base, that's a fairly in MS's book. On many levels.. there's a snowball effect for a well received new OS.. 3rd party apps starting moving to only run in the new OS, bringing more people into it, etc. The opposite happened with Vista.. XP was still the applications model, not Vista. The only major impact of Vista was that MS finally released a fully supported 64-bit OS (hardware companies didn't have to do 64-bit XP drivers, they did have to do 64-bit Vista drivers).
Certainly, consumer oriented FOSS releases, and even MacOS to an extent, are more likely to follow that second list... FOSS because the users are the authors, to a large extent. MacOS because, being proprietary, Apple doesn't have the same kind of OS to PC relationship... everyone upgrades their MacOS install, new MacOS upgrades are cheap, and they don't couple the OS release to selling new hardware. Certainly they do stuff that's designed to help Apple, but they're also adding in "cool" new features. Of course, Mac people are kind of retro, thinking OSs are cool enough anymore to even have features that interesting. Usually no, even in MacOS. The market's mature.. your best result is not alienating your customer base.
-Dave Haynie
Wouldn't that be 0.1Gig.
I make a reasonable middle-class wage by going to work and not spamming blogs with scams.
In Soviet Russia, vodka picks you!
Had Win 7 on preorder...
So far so good. Other than the fact that a piece of hardware I have doesn't work in a 64 bit OS, Windows 7 64 bit is a winner.
That's why I kept my XP 32 bit OS disk and installed Win 7 on a new one. Dual boot 4tw. It's fast and does well with all of the programs I've tested so far.
I like it...
Don't kid yourself. It's the size of the regexp AND how you use it that counts.
I bought Vista when it came out and installed it on a newly built machine. Anything I would play in HD would skip and pixilate in Media Center or VLC. I tried different codecs and drivers to no avail. The system performance was much slower than XP. I ended up switching back to XP.
I installed 7 on that same computer on Friday. Everything works just as it did in XP. I found a hack to allow remote desktop usage (and concurrent users) in Home Premium and so far I am pretty happy.
*cough*Vista*uncough*
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
IMO, W7 is what Vista should have been. It's clearly faster than Vista, and prettier than XP. It's still a wallowing pig compared to Ubuntu, but it's very good for a MS OS.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
John Dvorak has never been right in any article he has ever written. Go look.
Read Dvorak's article, he looks more peeved about not getting a personalized card or letter from Microsoft then anything else. It's like someone missed his birthday or something. Maybe he's still sore about not getting into the windows 7 beta?
... for WinFS. Now that sounded like something worthwhile. Wake me up when it's here. Kthxbye.
Have you ever owned a Mac?
You should get one. They're really good.
Original firehose story:
CWmike writes "Microsoft has blamed user confusion for the problems many have encountered trying to move from Vista to Windows 7 after buying a discounted upgrade offered to college students. "Digital River and Microsoft are aware that some customers from the Windows 7 Academic Store had difficulties completing the download or installation of the product," said a Microsoft support engineer identified as "Michael" in a message posted Sunday to the company's support forum. Several hundred users have said that they were unable to upgrade from Vista to the new OS after purchasing, then downloading, a Windows 7 upgrade, from Digital River. "We are aware that consumers are encountering difficulties installing Windows 7 where the customer is currently running a 32-bit version of Windows such as Windows Vista, but purchased the 64-bit version of Windows 7," Michael said. Students who mistakenly downloaded the 64-bit edition of Windows 7 from Digital River should request a refund, Microsoft's Michael continued, then pay for and download the 32-bit version instead. He pointed customers to a page on Digital River's site where they could request a refund. His advice runs counter to the policy listed on the Digital River support site, which says that there are no refunds for the student discount Windows 7 upgrade."
Link To Original Source
Comment:
It seems dubious to me. I used Digital River once to download antivirus software and I will NEVER do it again. After paying for and downloading the software, it was apparent that I needed a product key. When I asked them for the key(a username and password) they didn't know what I was talking about. After explaining it to them(just short of drawing a diagram), they said I would have to talk to Newegg(host of Digital River link) about it. Newegg said, understandably, that since they were not the source of the software then, consequently, they did not have the key. Newegg said plainly that Digital River was the provider and that they were just partnering with them. Thus, Digital River needed to cough up the key. To shorten an already dragging story, I got into it with these guys at Digital River who then tried to convince me I
did not need a product key...even after I told them I was an IT professional who had used the software before. By the way, it was Panda Security software that I was downloading. I ended up paying 10 bucks for demo software that I could downloaded from Panda for free anyway...Yeaa Team! To say the least, I consider the Windows 7 situation to be suspect given that Digital River is involved. If the students' keys do not work on BOTH 32 and 64 bit versions, then they are screwed. Digital River will absolutely NOT give refunds. However, i think there is a bit more going on behind the scenes than Microsoft is admitting concerning the downloads.
By touting Win7 being "faster" because all you do is hover over an icon, is silly. Apple UI engineers have consistently designed elements to require a modifier key to avoid accidental actions. Without requiring the user to press a modifier key, Microsoft has caused one of the most enraging features of computing--stuff popping up without the user asking for it, or understanding why...think of those crappy double underlined links on web pages that pop-up a bunch of info just because your mouse ran over it.
The "better" way is the way OSX does it. You can click+hold+wait a milisecond, or you can click and hit the space-bar. Either way, you get a responsive system that only acts when you request it to do something, without the possibility of accidental triggering.
AeroSnap looks like a good feature. I'll have to see it to determine if I like it better than Expose. It seems to be Expose in reverse. Expose snaps all open windows, but only to see them. It would be nice for Expose to keep them arranged this way when you are done expose-ing (or maybe it does and I'm too lazy to try).