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Texas Schools Board Rewriting US History
suraj.sun picked up a Guardian (UK) piece on the Texas school board and their quest to remake US education in a pro-American, Christian, free enterprise mode. We've been keeping an eye on this story for some time, as it will have an impact far beyond Texas. From the Guardian: "The board is to vote on a sweeping purge of alleged liberal bias in Texas school textbooks in favor of what Dunbar says really matters: a belief in America as a nation chosen by God as a beacon to the world, and free enterprise as the cornerstone of liberty and democracy. ... Those corrections have prompted a blizzard of accusations of rewriting history and indoctrinating children by promoting right-wing views on religion, economics, and guns while diminishing the science of evolution, the civil rights movement, and the horrors of slavery. ... Several changes include sidelining Thomas Jefferson, who favored separation of church and state, while introducing a new focus on the 'significant contributions' of pro-slavery Confederate leaders during the Civil War. ... Study of Sir Isaac Newton is dropped in favor of examining scientific advances through military technology."
"He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future."
They can do that?
They are not even trying to cover up that they are trying to indoctrinate everyone: "Dunbar says really matters: a belief in America as a nation chosen by God as a beacon to the world, and free enterprise as the cornerstone of liberty and democracy."
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Of course it is absurd that the Texas school board is even considering such changes, but it really is up to the people of Texas to fix their school board.
On the other hand, if an education in Texas gets bad enough, universities and employers might start to pass over applicants from Texas because they are under qualified. This seems like a good thing as it is basically the free market sorting out the educated from the ignorant.
Zero comments after most of a day? Really?
Okay, I'll throw one down. Probably a bit OT, but WTF.
I live in Arizona, ground zero for this crap. I had an interesting conversation about Our State Issues this week.
And I left there thinking:
The problem is not the 25% hardcore dipshits who will always lean this way. Nothing can be done to help them.
The problem is the 30% of otherwise kind, intelligent, educated people who because of some flaw in their heads find themselves thinking things like: "Hmmm, that Glenn Beck fella makes some good points."
I wish there were more I could do to reach them, beyond conversing with them delicately and providing an alternative example by what I say and how I live my life. It will never be enough to turn the tide in the nation, or this state. Maybe not even enough to turn it in this town. But it's what I have. And hoping against hope, I'll keep going with it, and just pray to a god who doesn't exist that power ends up in the hands of better people.
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."
--Treaty of Tripoly
Ratified by the Senate, signed by President John Adams in 1797.
I hope that clears things up for these right wing wackos who are confused about our founding fathers' intentions. I hope to see this quote up on a sidebar in the next issue of their books.
I'm wondering why omit Newton, he was a very devout Christian. One of his greatest regrets was not making a theological breakthrough that matched his scientific discoveries. Heck, he was also a strong advocate of maintaining virginity (perhaps too strongly, he died a virgin and reputedly call that his greatest accomplishment).
... should mean zero tolerance for people deliberately choosing to promulgate ignorance. Let's go ahead and issue student vouchers, so I can keep my kids out of schools like those.
...a belief in America as a nation chosen by God as a beacon to the world
The question is, a beacon indicating exactly what?
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
while introducing a new focus on the 'significant contributions' of pro-slavery Confederate leaders during the civil war
I'm a little concerned about the way that is worded... Putting a pair of words in quotes generally means that the author doesn't share that opinion. So does someone really believe that slave owners contributed nothing of value to society? George Washington was a slave owner (albeit a progressive one), and he most certainly contributed greatly to American society. It's rather disturbing to me that someone might want to blackwash something like slavery as all bad and only practiced by vile, useless people.
OTOH, slavery is the antithesis of America. Slaves are neither free, nor can they improve their situation through hard work. I'm frankly worried that history is getting to be more focused on "good guys" and "bad guys" than an actual understanding of what lead the "bad guys" to do what they did, and why we see it as "wrong" given a modern perspective. If you just attribute evil acts to "evil" people then you lose sight of what caused those people to become "evil", and insight into how to prevent similar things from happening again. The only thing you can do with "evil people" that you don't understand is kill them, which hardly solves the long-term problem since it's very difficult to kill *all* of them.
That said, I have no idea how the Texas School Board is presenting the concept. They could easily paint slavery as the result of cultural sensitivity, since slavery was the traditional practice in Africa. (So many people seem to think slavery was about white guys going to African and throwing nets over random black villagers.) Or they could state that the Africans were less developed and imply that it wasn't so bad to use them for Western goals since most Americans descended from slaves are better off then their modern-day African counterparts. Presenting perspectives such as these would be very dangerous, since they're half-truths that ignore the bigger picture. Furthermore, they have a very obvious connection to modern politics.
*That* is a brilliant fucking idea.
No slashdot discussion of the stupidity of textbooks would be complete without a reference to Richard Feynman's little thing on the horribleness of how textbooks get approved. Spoilers: it involves sex, lies, bribery, political cronyism, plagiarism, and other delicious things.
Is there an easy way to find schools with curricula that are less dependent on what happens in Texas? I mean, without having to read hundreds of textbooks and do lots of gruesomely painful research on my own (I get enough of that in my day job).
But the textbook companies will not stand up to it. The Texas School Board has been influencing textbooks for all of America for many decades. Texas is a populous state, so it is a big market for textbooks. Furthermore, Texas is unique in that textbooks are adopted statewide for all the schools in the state. That means huge numbers for the publishers, and that gives the publishers' ears to the School Board.
I do not remember the attempts at influence of the fundamentalists to be quite so blatant in the past. Perhaps they are becoming emboldened in these times of the Tea Parties.
In addition to encouraging you to RTFA, let me strongly encourage you to consider the political position consistently advocated by the paper that published the FA. The Guardian makes no pretense at all of being balanced, centrist, unbiased, or apolitical. This is the British newspaper (and web site) that developed a web site with the names and addresses of registered voters in Ohio, and encouraged their readers to write to them to exhort them to vote for John Kerry rather than George Bush. (Bush won Ohio by a handful of votes--which Ohio politicos attributed to the furious backlash the Guardian created, but that's another story.)
In other words, the Guardian article is an advocacy piece meant to alarm, rather than enlighten. If you're a Brit, this will come as no surprise--if you're as Internet-savvy as a SlashDot reader should be, you shouldn't be surprised, either.
The sun will come up tomorrow, even in Texas...
Despite the panicked anxiety of the writer (and the New York Times, here), it's not terribly controversial to emphasize the strong Christian views of many of America's founders. Which is not to say that America's Constitution is a statement of Christian faith--which is often how this argument is misconstrued. (A standard freshman year American History exam question is to compare and contrast the Christian and Deist views expressed in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.) But it is interesting to know that in most U.S. states you had to be a professing Christian in order to run for political office--it provides a perspective on our First Amendment that is all-too-often missing when discussing what the "separation of church and state" means. (What it meant, then, was that no state could "establish" a church--in the way that the Church of England is established in the U.K., or the Lutheran Church is established in Denmark. They're supported by taxes, their leadership is appointed by government, etc.--they are state religions. Jefferson wrote about a "vast wall separating church and state" to reassure Baptists in New England that they would not face oppression by Congregationalists.).
Isaac Newton vs. military technology:
Well gosh--I can see the insidious hand of Sarah Palin here, too. Or...perhaps, it might be worthwhile to consider that the intentional pursuit of military technology as a means of achieving battlefield superiority has been a hallmark of U.S. strategy since the Civil War. Especially in Texas, home to Ft. Hood, Ft. Sam Houston, Lackland AFB, and most U.S. Air Force pilot training. To me (who majored in Economics and American History) that sounds like a pretty perceptive point to make. I'd include Isaac Newton, too--but presumably they decided something had to give. Oh, well.
Guns
TFA breathlessly tells Brit readers that:
One can understand that this would so shock a Brit that he might drop his second or third pint of Guinness Stout that he'd swilled that day. Which is to say, what a Brit might find commonplace (down two or three pints of Guinness Stout in the U.S. and you're a de facto alcoholic) in the U.S. is seen as entirely normative. Again--given that the entire point of the Second Amendment was a direct reaction to the abuses of British occupation forces prior to American independence--this is a pretty welcome emphasis on the impact of early American history on our constitution and present-day policy. Not to mention, of course, that in Texas even self-avowed liberals emphasize their support for "Second Amendment Rights".
Think critically--read critically
I'm far less bothered by this article (it's the Guardian, for heaven's sake, what would you expect?) than I am by the fact that SlashDot's editors include
I was indoctrinated with a liberal public education full of PC bullshit. And the only effect it had on me was a contempt for those who would push their agendas onto me. I ended up being somewhere between libertarian and conservative, with a strong feeling that the state should neither support nor suppress religious beliefs. I'm an atheist myself, but realize that religion is very important to many people. And atheist conservative, I suppose I challenge the narrow view political labels has taken in the last few decades. But I suggest that perhaps it was the Christian Right that made state religion part of a "conservative" platform.
If Texas wants to eliminate liberal bias and insert some neoconservative/christian right bias then so be it. The ideals of neocons and christian right are generally incompatible and it has fractured the Republican Party for many decades. Likely students will see the contradictions and the hypocrisy and make their own choices. With the wild Internet providing easy access to information, and the culture of this new generation being very open and honest about their beliefs (even though they are often outlandishly liberal) I have little doubt in my mind that students will overcome this minor obstacle in propaganda tainted education. The kids who aren't critical thinkers and fall prey to such propaganda would have fallen anyways, to the Church or to social pressures. They are the causalities of our society, and will be integrated into society as taxpayers and ineffective voters.
It's not like Americans haven't had to face insane propaganda mixed in their education. From Commies to Political Correctness, we over came the bullshit.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
World War 3?
Really, if you look at how everything began, that led to WW2... it looks like this: The start of a reality distortion gaining power, and taking over. A mass-schizophrenia.
It may take another 10 years, but this already looks like a mind-virus of the level of the Nazis or the inquisitions.
I just hope we can quickly cure people.
(The cure to delusions is to give reality a greater appeal, and make the delusions look really bad. And I mean in the minds of the infected. They must have an excuse to keep their self-respect, and get back into a better reality. So we must first and foremost stop all the “threats”. Like the “economic crisis”, the growing poverty, and especially the easy-to-kill fake ones like the way overblown “terrorist threat”, or the whole Obama fear. I say, the primary target should be to shoot Glenn Beck and close down FOX News ASAP. BUT: Let give them a reason, so THEY do it, or it will only get worse. And then go for the “churches”. They are THE professionals since thousands of years, and the feed on it like no other. )
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
Because old news is sooooo exciting. This was news about 3 or 4 months ago. Where was the submitter at that time. You really should poke your head out of the basement more often. Or at the least check the news more than once every few months or so.
Manifest Destiny ... look it up. Think of it as a democratic jihad. Not a good idea. The British had a similar notion: The White Man's Burden. Well meaning ideas that just result in a lot misfortune.
Bitter and proud of it.
You know, back when it was the US and the Republic of Texas?
I have no problem with school books portraying US history or the free enterprise system in a positive light.
I do have a problem with school books singling out and particular religion, because separation of church and state is a bedrock of US law.
Am I the only person who finds the Texans' belief in books a bit disturbing?
I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
like the "economic crisis"
Yep, no crisis at all right. Easy to find jobs. We didn't waste billions of taxpayer dollars "bailing out" businesses. Not sure if that was your primary point that it didn't exist, but putting "economic crisis" in quotes seem to indicate it...
or the whole Obama fear.
Because we should all be just happy that we have a president who has wasted billions of taxpayer dollars, supports a supreme court nominee vowed against true freedom of speech and supports unsustainable programs. Right?
I say, the primary target should be to shoot Glenn Beck and close down FOX News ASAP.
News flash. News sources are biased. It isn't new. Look at MSNBC, heck, look at the Guardian which TFA is taken from. The Guardian doesn't even make any claims to be balanced or fair.
Oh and is the new tactic to eliminate anyone with views who you don't agree with now?
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
I just hope we can quickly cure people.
I seriously doubt that - these people are still waving the FUCKING CONFEDERATE FLAG. They lost the war, going on 150 years ago, and they still haven't given up. They've lost every battle in their self-proclaimed "culture war", and they still believe that one day America will return to the "good ol' days", where wimmins stayed in the kitchen, faggots stayed in the closet, niggers stayed in the ghetto and "White America" was some sort of tax-free libertarian redneck version of Leave It To Beaver.
The fact that such a time never existed (look up the marginal rates during the Eisenhower era, for instance) or that 99% of the Social Security collecting teabaggers who worship it would have been dirt poor sharecroppers without shoes, electricity or running water doesn't enter into the equation.
Now all American children can be as stupid as Texans.
I'm all for this. If they want to diminish science and taint history, let 'em.
That'll give my child that much bigger of an advantage in about 15 years when she's applying for jobs. She'll understand the scientific method. She'll know her history. She'll be well educated, while the children from texas will believe that there is no USSR/soviet union.
This works for me.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Those goddamned buffalo weren't going to eradicate themselves.
I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
Why do you think the GOP is tearing itself apart? Free enterprise is an entirely different religion than Jesusitude. Seriously, read Ayn Rand.
I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
Reasonable discussion isn't going to cut it any more. A woman who home-schooled her children because, and I'm quoting exactly here, sending them to public education would be "throwing them into the enemy's flames," i.e. damning them to Hell, has gotten some control over the Texas Board of Education. It's time to unleash the awesome power of ridicule.
Seriously. Look at the proposed changes from the article:
These are not the crackpot fringe. These are people in charge of educating the children of one of the country's largest populations, and who influence education thoughout the country.
We're beyond rational discussion here. Reasonable debate only works when both sides are intellectually honest. How about we begin with Harvard, Princeton, Caltech and MIT dropping all applications from students educated in Texas out of hand? I mean, surely no REAL American would want to send their kid to California or the bastions of the Liberal Elite to be educated?
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
It's time for the US to give Texas back to Mexico. This will solve many problems, such as: (1) lying textbooks, (2) warmongering presidents, (3) Mexicans illegally streaming across the border for jobs, and (4) country and western music.
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Mussolini
It wasn't just Jefferson that wanted to seperate Church and State, there was this guy called Jesus that said "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's".
Then again, we're dealing with merchants in the temple here.
A big clue about whether your Church is about worshipping money and power instead of anything else is their attitude to the poor and homeless. The ironic thing is such wide ranging heresy which could not exist without tolerance is incredibly intolerant.
....Because we all know that the left does none of that. No the left is perfectly sane and based on reason. Right? Only the right has any sort of indoctrination. Only the right acts without reason. After all, Obama has been perfectly reasonable all the time. Yep! Nothing but protections of civil and economic liberties under Obama! And a balanced budget! Right?
Lets face it, both the right and the left are irrational. Until we get some third parties active in the US, nothing is going to change and the US will continue to deteriorate.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Texas: "We must close the ignorance gap with Kansas!"
Table-ized A.I.
Since when is being "pro-america" a bad thing for Americans?
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
The Texas school board forgot to add that the earth is a flat dish shape with the USA comprising the bulk of it and that it is at the centre of the universe, carried on the back of a giant turtle. Children should stay away from the edge of the world, because they will fall off. Always think of the children.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
President John Adams, eh?
John Adams, Oct. 13, 1789
oh, this one is good too:
So while the government of the United States might not be Christian, the opinion at the time was that Christianity was necessary to preserve it. 'Why' is explained above. Atheists have not demonstrated an adequate method for instilling the necessary values on as wide a scale as Christianity. They constantly deride it, coming across as little better than the teenager who thinks his dad's a moron, only to figure out how smart he actually is when he gets to his late twenties.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
There is not a real "left" in America. Democrats are not left, they are just slightly left of the Republicans. If you want to know what real leftist ideas look like then read about the Green Party, or the Democratic Socialist Party. If those were viable parties and were winning elections then you could say we have a real right-left divide, right now all we have is right and far right so if you have a problem with either the Democrats or the Republicans then you are saying you don't like conservative ideas - they are both conservative.
If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
...when the left does it.
I can show you a bunch of cases of textbooks saying outright that the 2nd Amendment is purely about the states rights to form state militias and that there's no personal civil right to arms - and some still say it even when published after the 2008 Heller decision where the US Supreme Court said otherwise in no uncertain terms.
The left has been doing a LOT more social indoctrination crap in the schools over the years than the right, largely because the teacher's unions are fairly hardcore lefties. The ONLY surprise now is that the right has been caught doing it.
Schools are not supposed to be indoctrination camps for either side. It's just as evil either way.
While not for RSS, you can always go to your preferences and hide kdawson. Or you could just not read the story when kdawson is the author (or The Guardian is TFA) if you don't want to be trolled.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Well, I was fairly sure the only real policy of the Repubulicans from Reagan onwards was to be batshit insane and fill their own pockets. Then McCain had a chance, but he had to keep the batshit insane klepocrats happy by having one as a running mate.
It's not about left and right, it's about absolute rejection of reality or not. You'll find some of each in all kinds of places.
And it wasn't the United States.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
These creeps need to be dragged into the streets whipped into their sense, then educated and sent to work in a coal mine before they corrupt the entire nation with their ignorance and ill formed beliefs.
Gee, round up people who disagree with you and put them into re-education camps. Somehow, I think this has been tried before. It didn't work then either.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
And... the left haven't done much else.
Its time that the US has a congress controlled by a third party. Libertarian, Green, etc. Both Republican and Democrat policies have failed. Their compromises have lead to unworkable policies.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Yep, no crisis at all right. Easy to find jobs. We didn't waste billions of taxpayer dollars "bailing out" businesses. Not sure if that was your primary point that it didn't exist, but putting "economic crisis" in quotes seem to indicate it...
The bailouts have been working. Yes, we have lower job numbers than desirable, but that's arguably because the stimulus wasn't big enough.
Because we should all be just happy that we have a president who has wasted billions of taxpayer dollars, supports a supreme court nominee vowed against true freedom of speech and supports unsustainable programs. Right?
I note that the bank bailouts were accomplished under Bush.
I have no idea what you're talking about regarding Kagan or Sotomayor, and i've been following both FOX and other outlets' opinions of her. Many conservatives are supportive of Kagan.
As for unsustainable programs, I assume you are referring to Medicare and Social Security? What would you propose be done with them?
News flash. News sources are biased. It isn't new. Look at MSNBC, heck, look at the Guardian which TFA is taken from. The Guardian doesn't even make any claims to be balanced or fair.
MSNBC has some left wing opinion shows, a right wing morning show, and pretty much run of the mill NBC news otherwise.
I venture that your views above have demonstrated a number of falsehoods mixed in with truths, and some debatable points. You might want to sort out which from which.
-Stu
So undoing revisionism is now considered revisionism. Why am I not surprised?
The left isn't rewriting textbooks to replace facts with their world view.
And despite all the claims of "liberal bias!!" in education, the left is far to disorganized to pull off anything like this.
Yours is to serve as a warning to others.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
It's time for the US to give Texas back to Mexico.
Sure. You just have to get the okay from Texans, who'd probably go independent first. For that matter, they'd probably burn their own cities and salt every farm & ranch before joining Mexico.
all american cultural exports (tv shows, newspapers, etc) are exactly like this (pro-american, pro-free-enterprise, pro-christian). if they export such propaganda, why is it any surprise that they'll brainwash their own children with the same stuff?
do real-life americans really think or talk about god or faith anywhere near as often as characters on tv?
are the constant biblical stories, re-tellings, and themes in everything really that interesting?
or is all this just to bombard american viewers with it so that they start to think it's normal?
I understand where you are coming from.
If there is a God and an afterlife, there's no point in despairing about just how bad people have made the present, because, well, you've got the hope for better things.
If there isn't, well, then your struggle is for the minds of those 30%. Believe it or not, those 25% aren't as inflexible as you might believe. Perhaps you're one of them - maybe you're absolutely convinced that you're right, and perhaps no amount of evidence would convince you otherwise. Hopefully not, but if you're open to the possibility of changing your mind...
The key to changing someone's mind is understanding *why* they believe what they do. Some other posters have advocated ridiculing people, but calling people names won't change anyone's mind. Ridiculing positions is perhaps a little better, but still tends to encourage people to redouble their efforts to defend their position. Trying to understand someone else's position often leads to a better understanding of why they believe what they do, and more importantly, the rare moment when they're willing to listen to yours.
A very famous Christian evangelist once said, "You don't win anyone to Christ by winning arguments..." Indeed, there are people posting on /. who really believe that winning the argument will change someone's mind.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
(The cure to delusions is to give reality a greater appeal, and make the delusions look really bad. And I mean in the minds of the infected. They must have an excuse to keep their self-respect, and get back into a better reality. So we must first and foremost stop all the “threats”. Like the “economic crisis”, the growing poverty, and especially the easy-to-kill fake ones like the way overblown “terrorist threat”, or the whole Obama fear. I say, the primary target should be to shoot Glenn Beck and close down FOX News ASAP. BUT: Let give them a reason, so THEY do it, or it will only get worse. And then go for the “churches”. They are THE professionals since thousands of years, and the feed on it like no other. )
Yes, exactly. Because the road to a more peaceful world runs through murderous purges.
Now that you mention it, I would give Stalin the political label "progressive". I won't go any further, because then I would be feeding a troll.
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
The bailouts have been working. Yes, we have lower job numbers than desirable, but that's arguably because the stimulus wasn't big enough.
Your link shows that a few of the more sane "bailouts" that weren't really bailouts (they weren't propping up a failing system) have worked. The bailouts you show are different than the bailouts for the auto industry and the like. In 10 years, expect even more "bailouts".
You show that extensions to the FDIC is working, however the link has nothing about the billions given to private businesses that were truly bailouts.
I note that the bank bailouts were accomplished under Bush.
I have no idea what you're talking about regarding Kagan or Sotomayor, and i've been following both FOX and other outlets' opinions of her. Many conservatives are supportive of Kagan.
Kagan said
"Whether a given category of speech enjoys First Amendment protection, depends upon a categorical balancing of the value of the speech against its societal costs."
So, if your speech is pro-government that is just fine, however, if it is against the government, it gets blocked.
And really, I'd prefer if you didn't call be "conservative", I identify most strongly with the Libertarian Party, I support "conservative" views in the areas of increasing 2nd amendment rights and believe that we should have lower taxes, but I disagree with wars that don't make us safer (War in Iraq and Afghanistan), believe that the government has no right to define relationships between people, and oppose the "PATRIOT" act.
As for unsustainable programs, I assume you are referring to Medicare and Social Security? What would you propose be done with them?
Slowly phase out social security and replace with private retirement funds. As for Medicare, reform patents to allow for cheaper, safer medicine faster and reform the medical system so it is affordable by perhaps allowing for universal malpractice insurance for doctor's offices which maintain certain standards and prices.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
I'm going to spam a post of mine, because there are *so many* morons posting on this story.
Our world has a lot of problems. Pogroms aren't the answer to any of them.
Yes, exactly. Because the road to a more peaceful world runs through murderous purges.
Now that you mention it, I would give Stalin the political label "progressive". I won't go any further, because then I would be feeding a troll.
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
You're aware it's a book, not a function to be called, right?
I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
They've got a little bit of leeway there. Technically, Heller applied only to the District of Columbia and other purely-federal locales. There's a case, McDonald v. Chicago, that was heard by the Supreme Court earlier this year to determine whether it applies to the states as well. The actual decision is pending, and should be arriving soon.
You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
Study of Sir Isaac Newton is dropped in favor of examining scientific advances through military technology.
How can one understand advances in military technology without an understanding of, for example, Newton's kinematics equations?
Slavery is still practiced in the US. Humans are still imported, forced to work, traded as property, beaten, branded, tortured and killed. It's just not legal now. The US slave population may not be close to what it was right before the civil war, but the numbers are still disturbing. It's no longer sanctioned by law. It's now not restricted by race but more by gender - mostly prevalent in the sex worker trade and textile manufacturing, and agriculture. But it persists.
Sometimes my fellow Americans disgust me.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Didn't need to.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Hey, I'm shocked! I thought for sure I was going to be modded as a troll for mentioning something of a religious nature on slashdot.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
why omit Newton
There have been suggestions over time that Newton may have been homosexual. And that just doesn't bode well with conservative teachings - after all, why would god make a smart person not be a heterosexual bible thumper?
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
The moral majority is neither.
They just whine and scream the loudest to try and force everyone else into their twisted concept of reality and morality.
Hopefully someone with integrity and the ability to derail this travesty will step up and do what's right, even if it pisses some people off.
Why can't they just use the *real* history book like Californians do?
Business as usual in Texas (and/or any other conservative, arrogant state under the thumb of religion)
Move along.
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
The text is right there. It states the purpose in the first clause.
However, even though the second clause places no limit on why, how or what, the purpose still remains clear. The fact that an already armed populace can also use their armaments for other reasonable purposes, such as hunting for food, self defence and recreation, invalidates neither the purpose nor the restriction of government to infringe. Some people may not like it, but the reality is that people are still allowed to use/have weapons in the USA without the requirement of being for militia use only.
I highly doubt a history book of any bias would dare rewrite the text of a fundamental constitutional amendment. It is more likely that a text or two would editorialise on the validity of existing or proposed gun control laws (no matter how relaxed they may be in various jurisdictions). And I see no reason for a text book to make an easily falsifiable statement.
So, I call bullshit on your stance that the left is somehow changing text books to rewrite the constitution. An author may disagree with the current interpretation, but that doesn't mean that they are making up their own version of the law.
Roger Schank is right. The American educational system is a failure. Here we have boneheads arguing about the details of history texts when the real question is whether history is even relevant. What did anyone get from history other than that it's one damn fact after another?
(Disclaimer: I'm from there, and observed while away with much enthusiasm.)
A Texan who has not experienced life outside north of Amarillo has a view of the world that begins and ends with Texas - and there is no 'righter' right than the opinion of that Texan while in Texas.
The list of these Texans is long, and a signature element is recognizable in all. Don McLeroy and Rick Perry are of the same ilk - and both Aggies.
The thing is, Texans are so damned prideful, they blind each other with it, and it is misdirected as religious and political zealotry - or where religion or politics don't find a foothold, it shows up as sports or militaristic fanaticism. You may even experience is in something as depraved as televangelism, toddler pageantry or extreme animal husbandry.
You saw how Dubya behaved when confronted with 'foreignality'. Same thing, ya'll.
When you leave it up to the government to decide what to teach everybody's kids, sometimes the people who get to decide what to teach your kids are going to be wrong.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
So basically what they are saying is that you will get a more accurate view of history and science from Foxnews?
>The left has been doing a LOT more social indoctrination crap in the schools over the years than the right, largely because the teacher's unions are fairly hardcore lefties.
The habit of using schools for indoctrination goes back to the time when all of the "progressives", (as they called themselves) were in the Republican party. They saw the schools as a tool for the obnoxious puritan belief that it was a prerogative of the government to rule the people to "improve" them.
It's the same mentality that tried to wipe out Indian culture by forcing them onto reservations and their kids into government boarding schools; that tried to "improve the race" by forced sterilizations and other crimes against humanity under the name of "eugenics"; that thought it was just fine and dandy to impose prohibition of alcohol (and perpetrate an unconstitutional War on Drugs today); and that believes it's the government's responsibility to pass laws to keep people from getting fat!
"left" and "right" is a false dichotomy. The real division is between freedom and tyranny.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
The Ayn Rand wing of the GOP would vomit profusely if forced to conform to that form of capitalism as a religion. These people are already practically in tears trying to explain why the golden age of godless exploitation ever had to end.
I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
I found it straight forward to send a note to my congressman about this issue, my position, and my support for legislation similar to that of California to block these Texas texts use by the North Carolina school system.
They won't be successful at it. They can construct whatever kind of information universe in public schools, but it doesn't mean it's what people are going to learn when they get to the next, and only real significant level. This is only going to devalue U.S. public schools even further.
OP poster here. Looks like I now have to invest some time to school you. Sorry to have to do this, but ah well.
If you actually read all of the wikipedia information you would have seen this too.
Of course I did. The idea that this is a treaty between sovereign nations in now way detracts from the very clear statement that the US is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion. It as if the treaty said "2 + 2 = 4" and you are waving around "ah, but does not 2 + 3 = 5?!!" Uh, yeah. So going back to the point, the US is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.
If you actually were taught your history correctly all our founding fathers were religious men.
Notwithstanding your distinction between "religious men" and "deeply religious men", the extent to which our founders were "religious" is dependent on what you mean by "religious". They were certainly not, with few exceptions, religious in the sense that fundamentalist Christian right-wingers wish they were. The majority were deists, who did not believe that any "Creator" played a personal or interested role in the day to day activities or events of humankind. I will discuss this further below.
But they believed all religions should be allowed to be practiced without persecution.
I agree with that. Again, 2+3 = 5. It has nothing to do with the understanding that the United States was in no way founded on the Christian religion.
Thomas Jefferson was not religious but he did believe in a Creator. He is the writer of the Declaration of Independence.
No shit. He was also an author of the Constitution, the IMPORTANT document that put down the groundwork for our country, not the statement that explained why we were separating from England. The Dec of Independence is a beautifully written document, but has NO LEGAL import.
As for TJ-- you clearly know very little of the man. He was probably a deist, but certainly not a Christian. While he was an admirer of Jesus' message, he did NOT believe in the claims that Jesus performed miracles or did anything supernatural. In fact, he famously rewrote the bible, taking out all the magic bits. Feel free to enjoy the religion-free "Jeffersonian Bible". The best feature of this bible is perhaps how you will shut your pie hole as you digest it and realize how wrong you are.
But Jefferson's version "omitting the question of [Jesus's] diety" isn't enough to convince you of TJ's disbelief in Christianity, why don't you take in his general beliefs about religion and government. I could direct you to the famous "wall of separation of church and state" stuff, but how's this to start:
Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789
Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814
You say you are a Calvinist. I am not. I am of a sect by myself
I love Texas. There isn't a state like it. But this is just one more good reason as to why we need open-source books to come onto the mainstream. Seriously. Does history change? Does math change? Not the stuff they're teaching now. It's the same repeated curriculum. So why are we spending so many tax dollars on this crap when we should be rounding up that money in an effort to create something anyone can use or modify?
What day is it? Could you please tell me?
Really? It was actually the liberals that toyed with them-there books first?!?! Well shoot, buckaroo, I guess fillin' the new books with crazy-ass God-fearin', patriotic rhetoric is just fine, so long as it's done in retaliation. You got me convinced!
Grasshoppa,
Where do you think your child will be living in 15 years? The problem with your "my-kid-will-be-one-eyed-in-the-land-of-the-blind" theory is that those blind people all get a vote on where to point the steering wheel. When they vote to drive the car off a cliff, your daughter and mine will be trapped in the car with them.
Sure, maybe her superior education will make her captain of the ship, but that's not gonna help her much when the crew starts setting explosives against the hull down in the hold because "metal ships are not mentioned in the Bible and are therefore an abomination before the Lord..."
You're arguing that an educated woman in Afghanistan is doing great because she's more employable than the Taliban.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
Where's the "-1 fsking scary" mod when you need it?
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
Study of Sir Isaac Newton is dropped in favor of examining scientific advances through military technology
I heard that guy Newton got totally punk'd by Einstein...who, by the way, helped invent the atomic bomb. I'm not saying I agree with Texas (or that I have RTFA)...I'm just sayin', you know...just sayin'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_N._Welch
[McCarthy is dragging yet another random name from the List, when Head Counsel for the Army Joseph Welch responds.]
"Until this moment, Senator, I think I have never really gauged your cruelty or your recklessness. Fred Fisher is a young man who went to the Harvard Law School and came into my firm and is starting what looks to be a brilliant career with us. Little did I dream you could be so reckless and so cruel as to do an injury to that lad. It is true that he will continue to be with Hale and Dorr. It is, I regret to say, equally true that I fear he shall always bear a scar needlessly inflicted by you. If it were in my power to forgive you for your reckless cruelty I would do so. I like to think that I am a gentle man but your forgiveness will have to come from someone other than me. "
When McCarthy tried to go on the attack once more, Welch stepped in again and famously rebuked:
" Senator, may we not drop this? We know he belonged to the Lawyers Guild. Let us not assassinate this lad further, Senator. You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"
McCarthy had none. Apparently, neither do you.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
to be born in the free world, whether you appreciate it or not. I was born in the Communist block, and my only hope of freedom was -- guess what? -- the US, the actual beacon of liberties I and hundreds of millions were denied. The US was the sole reason why we finally stopped being serfs to our respective governments and parties (who, BTW, all called themselves "progressive"). Reflect on this before you decide to crack this silly joke again.
You can't learn a "true" version of history without knowing a fake version of history first.
Education 101: People start with nothing. Then they are taught something oversimplified, but interesting and relevant to their current situation. Then they are taught a little more, still filtering it through their experience. In other words, in order to gain any knowledge of history at all, you have to start with something that is, if not inaccurate, difficult to support and usually devoid of nuance, so it might as well be false--just because you can regurgitate "Thomas Jefferson" on a test does not mean you know what separation of church and state really means.
And if someone isn't taught history at all? They'll just form a model themselves from dumb things other people say and heavily entertaining yet completely vacuous fluff pieces, and we end up with people thinking it's okay to wear a George Washington costume to campaign for the Tea Party. Also they make the rest of us look bad on national surveys.
Maybe Texas did, but they were wrong.
When Geordi LaForge is taking Advanced Warp Field Theory at Starfleet Academy, when the Narn and the Centauri are running student exchange programs, it will still be "Newton's time."
When we get the Grand Unification Theory and we're about to Ascend beyond the Stargates we've planted all over, we're still going to teach Newton as a rough-and-ready method for most mundane physics and as a precursor for what came next.
Have you heard about this newfangled math called calculus?
BTW, I'm a Christian too, and excuse me as I go repent of the anger in my heart toward this comment, and beg your forgiveness for the snark in this reply.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
While the school board may be trying counteract liberal bias, what they're really doing is creating class conflict. Some people will end up with only a high school diploma and so only hear the school board's "pro-American, Christian, free enterprise" version of history. Other's will go on to university and get a different take on our nation. The result is a disconnect on how people see the country.
Hey, did you hear? They're teaching "Evils of Mysticism" next year!
Boredom is bliss.
I used to teach. Stories like this make me want to rend my clothes, wear sackcloth, throw ashes in my hair and run through the streets of Austin screaming, "Repent, repent, for Judgement is at hand!"
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
There are actually several high-quality physics textbooks available freely online. Check out motionmountain.net and lightandmatter.com. I currently list them as additional resources for my students, but I could see using them exclusively in a class.
Lets put it to a vote. Those in favor of removing Texas from the USA and putting large fences around it, say "Aye!".
Seriously, the shenanigans of this single state must be driving all the other states mad.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
The USA has the same problem every other group has.
Muslims have a very minor but very vocal group of fundamentalist terrorists.
Popular sports have a very minor but very vocal group of hooligans.
USA has a very minor but very vocal group of christian rightwing Texans.
Every other group has such hate-bearing extremists. The rest of the group disagrees with them just as much as outsiders do.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
Am I wrong for thinking of a time when the textbooks were written by the honestly incompetent and merely neglected in favor of bribery and corruption as "the good olds days?"
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
...and it is not ours. Are you going to be prepared for when it comes?
I'm guessing the suggestion is that it's always been an exercise in majoritarian mythology, and that's a pretty much dead on assessment. It'd be hypocritical of me to claim that there's a "gold standard" for K-12 history. The 101 history lectures of "Everything you learned in high school is wrong," are a stereotype, but there's some truth to it. Those K-12 syllabuses paint broad strokes, and the hope is that any damage done through oversimplification will be undone if the student expresses further interest and reads.
The article, OTOH, is slick yellow journalism, written to elicit a response. McGreal took the biggest wing-nut on the board he could find, someone who is probably just more honest and politically inept than anything else, and expanded this to essentially libel the entire board, who don't even warrant a "refused to comment" in this show, and the new curriculum, whatever it may be, in pejorative terms framed lovingly in guilt by association and an utter lack of context when quoted.
The question the reporter should be answering, since he posed it is, "Is Cynthia Dunbar... one of a clutch of US Christian evangelists who have grasped control of the Texas education board[?]" Did he demonstrate that?
Nope. McGreal demonstrated that Dunbar is one fundy on a board that has equal and opposite representation in Mavis Knight. And it documents almost nothing else, except judgmental framing of literally fragments of a detailed cirriculum, and his own opinion of one of the authors they chose. That's the whole article. There literally is no corroboration. His two sources provide only affirmation and refutation.
Then we're told by McGreal that the controversy has "prompted a blizzard of accusations." Sure. How many people are quoted on that? One. Mavis Knight, a one woman blizzard.
Can you name anyone else in Dunbar's "clutch?" Not from reading this.
Did the Dunbar amendment about "free enterprise" pass? It's not mentioned. It says she "backed [it]," but not that she was successful. We're left to fill in the blanks. Seems to me that if he's going to malign the entire board with that amendment, we need to know what the actual vote was.
This is just one, long, chauvinistic tirade of innuendo. It's 'commentary' if we're feeling charitable, insulting propaganda about 'gun toting, Bible kissing hicks' in the U.S. if we're not.
--
Toro
Discounting the insult after the comma in your assertion, the veracity of your claim is questionable, depending on the notion that absence of proof constitutes sufficient proof of absence for all intents and purposes. Further, it is a claim that depends upon its own veracity to be upheld... there is no underlying cause for the notion beyond the implied assumption that the notion must already be true. In fact, one could easily point out that the proof there is a God might be found in many of the hearts and minds of those who believe in him, but such proofs are discarded as delusions by people who do not believe in God _BECAUSE_ they don't believe in God.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
How about we do this? When it comes time to put down your state on the application, just put "Enlightened." We'll understand that to mean you come from Texas, Iran, North Korea or some other godawful backwater, but that you'd appreciate it if we didn't hold you responsible for being unable to choose where you were born.
You'll have to take a short quiz consisting of two questions:
1. Who wrote the Declaration of Independence?
2. If a Believer and a Pagan/Heathen/Infidel are fighting five feet away from a nuke when it explodes, who gets vaporized?
If you answer, 1. "Jefferson" and 2. "Both of them," then we're good. You're in. :-)
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
The solution you are advocating is one where children are being used as pawns in all of this.
One thing you are certainly wrong about is in the presumption that Texas school books remain within Texas borders. They don't. You almost had it right when you said that Texas commands influence with publishers and distributors. The fact is, Texas commands influence with publishers and distributors of text books from neighboring states as well. Books with a Texas slant get distributed beyond Texas borders in all directions.
So to attack just Texas students* would not solve the problem in any sense and seriously harms the children.
I am a product of Texas education. Somehow I ended up atheist (though closeted for most of my youth largely because my family is not) and with a political compass akin to Ghandi's according to one internet-based test. Perhaps I got through the system before it got bad. But the reality about Texas politics is that most of the politicians didn't go through public schools and neither do their children. They are the same government elite that run the rest of the states and nation.
But that doesn't address an alternate solution about what should be done about what is going on in Texas. Unquestionably, there is a serious problem with what is going on there. The federal government needs to strike a complete ban on anything that supports any religious belief in public education. It is the place of the home and church to teach these things anyway and it always has been... if there is somehow felt a need to compensate for the weaknesses found in their homes and in their churches by moving its content into the government, then they should be accused of being SOCIALIST.
And it wasn't the United States.
Please define 'God'.
Sig? What sig? Do I have to have a sig!?!?
Joseph McCarthy was a power-mad lunatic who ran through the arts and academia with a chainsaw. We lost Dalton Trumbo because of that jackass. We damn near lost Dash Hammett. Thank God for Edward Murrow.
To hear little right-wing syncophants try to rehabilitate that monster's image today is just nauseating.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
including the f*ck tards. I freaked out when they made it ok to teach bible as a history elective here in Louisiana, but it was an elective. Although there are only two reasons 95% of the kids would take that class: 1. There parents make them 2. there is a member of the opposite sex they want to have intercourse with is signing up to that class. This is WAAAAY worse. It is not an elective. Our children our being forced to learn skewed history in order to serve some ass clowns agenda. All I can say is parents teach your children to "Think for yourself and question authority(Timothy Leary)" If you have never read the poem look it up and read it.
sorry for my comments, I'm drunk
As they say: "Going to hell in a handbasket".
Quite a few of us outsiders gaze at the USA, being surprised that they still stand, not having fallen apart as the Soviet Union did some years ago.
But then, again and again, we see messages such as this one, which are quite clear signs that in the near future, the USA will share the fate of Portugal, Spain, Italy, France, Greece, Great Britain, Egypt and quite a few others: they used to be World Powers. Then they fell, and these days the are simply nice tourist spots...
Free PC version of ChipWits at http://www.breueronline.de/klaus/chipwits/
they are already totally messed up !
Aren't these changes going to create state run madrasses for Christianity ?
Its not the years, its the mileage
I especially like the one about ditching Isaac Newton in favor of military technology. Not only did the law of gravity give the first definitive equation for the ballistic trajectory of cannonballs, artillery shells, etc., but Newton switched from being a physicist to being a devout Christian theologian later in his life. I would've thought they'd love Newton, but nooo, they're so ignorant they're chopping out someone who falls right into their key focus areas. Either that, or maybe he was the wrong kind of Christian.
We are the 198 proof..
And how it shows.
Yeah, that's a sentence fragment. I can do that. That's how I roll.
You, on the other hand, need to quit molesting colons. Commas are not salt. You don't get to just sprinkle some on whenever the mood strikes. I've had drugs in surgery that caused fewer hallucinations and less confusion than one of your run-on sentences. I've never seen someone in such dire need of both spellcheck and a dictionary.
I want you to stop what you're doing, right now, and run to an office supply store like your life depends on it. I want you to buy boxes and boxes of red pens and pencils. I want you to fly to the nearest campus and scream, "Is there a Freshman Comp TA in the house?!" until some bespectacled grad student takes pity on you. I want you to hand them your boxes of red and beg them to beat you with them until you reach the First Enlightenment of Grammar.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
From the "White Man's Burden" poem:
As for the British Empire
For those unfamiliar with early 20th century British English, he's saying "You cannot rely on artillery to build an empire, it's like trying to construct a building by piling dust on dust""
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
You are so right. Even the Catholics embrace science. There is an astronomical observatory right in the Vatican, and one of the best science library in the world there. I think pope Paul VI in the 1970s said the Big Bang was the instant God created the Universe. I'm not claiming the Catholics necessarily have it right, but it does seem like these Texans want to be more Christian than the Pope.
The Greens are way too far off to the left for US taste. Due to really being Anarchists the Libertarians would find it difficult to be involved in government.
That's my opinion anyway as to why niether of those is providing a third party but something may emerge from elsewhere.
This report from the ACLU of Texas pretty much sums it up. The TSBOE has always been able to abuse its power to push an agenda, but we've never seen it done this flagrantly before. This must not come to pass. We need legislation to halt these amendments immediately and reassess the Board's purview. Specifically, more checks and balances are needed to avoid the realization of personal agendas by a select few, and to allow more input into the process by the educators of our state.
he was a scientist, right?
"The science PROVES it - along with several other things"
No, damnit, science does not prove anything. Furthermore, science cannot prove OR disprove a damn thing that happens in the bible. Scientific theories are basically educated guesses that are tested through experimentation and thus can only be disproved by an experiment in which the hypothesis does not hold. It doesn't matter how many experiments are consistent with the hypothesis, it is never PROVEN because there's the possibility that an experiment will disprove it in the future. Thus, things like gravity are technically "theories". (A scientific "law" is really a theory with a lot of evidence to support it. Seriously, go look it up.) There still exists the possibility that we'll find a part of the universe in which gravity doesn't work like we think it does. We haven't found such a place yet, but real scientists aren't so naive as to think we've encountered 100% of every possible situation in the entire fucking universe.
The thing about religion is that it isn't science. You cannot disprove religion through any experiment because the results of the experiment could have been fabricated by "god" regardless of whatever the fuck actually happened.
Religion and science are two entirely separate things. No, they cannot be allies. If I were to make a "god-o-meter" that detected the presence of a god, turned it on, and the display said "there is no god" then the counter argument is "god does exist and he made the machine display that anyway". Religion demands blind faith, science demands evidence. The two are diametrically opposed.
So, to address your point. IF there was a god then it is entirely possible that he got Mary pregnant without the use of his dick. Again, science can't disprove it.
"So, I need to put my brain in the trash bin to have a religion?" Yes, because believing in any religion requires believing in things with no evidence to support their existence, which is stupid.
-1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
Teach me not to preview! The 2nd para should start:
In this context we are dealing with people who want to tell kids that 2 plus 2 is 5. They want to ...
Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
"The Guardian [guardian.co.uk] makes no pretense at all of being balanced, centrist, unbiased, or apolitical."
Methinks you protest too much and that the Guardian article struck a raw nerve in your political consciousness. I don't know where you're from, but in the UK, the Guardian is one of the more reliable newspapers on offer, It contains serious political thought and while well known for its occasional spelling mistakes, is not noted for sloppy journalism and downright fibs. In terms of UK political opinion, the Guardian IS a centerist paper, and supported the Liberal-Democrat party in the recent elections.
I'm assuming that you're a proud US citizen, with an axe to grind of your own and a political belief thats somewhat to the right of Maggie Thatcher.
FYI
Left WIng papers: Morning Star, Daily Mirror
Centerist papers: The Guardian
Right Wing papers: The Times, Daily Telegraph, Daily Express, Daily Mail
Page 3 papers: The Sun, The Star
Your problem is that you seem to have no understanding of the range of political opinions expressed in the British press. If you had slagged the Mail, the Express the Sun or the Star off for being unbalanced, jingoistic, biased or political then I would have had some sympathy with your PoV.
Manifest Destiny ... look it up.
I can't! I go to school in Texas!!
My grandfather and my wife's grandfather were on opposite sides of WWII. We have radically different interpretations of the events of that conflict. You should hear some of the conflicting explanations my wife and I offer our kids when we travel to some places around the Pacific Rim.
But, to borrow from Lewis Black, we "agree on what the fuck reality is." We agree that you can't talk about Truman without Hirohito, you have to include both Tojo and MacArthur, the A6M and the Corsair.
Only telling part of the truth is a famous method of deception. In fact, the Devil is famous for telling the worst lies by speaking only part of the truth.
The Texas Board of Education isn't even trying to look like they're working in good faith.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
Heck, the only problems I've ever had were with Atheists.
God? ....Is that you?
Good thing that would never happen if we let private corporations run our schools.
You said it.
I think you should read, and barring that, at least watch the news a bit more. Arizona's immigration laws certainly target minorities in spirit if not not in letter.
"Liberal bias" is in the eye of the beholder to some degree. For me it'd be defined as using force or intimidation to limit which ideas may be discussed. It'd also mean limiting discussions, including those in school books, to those ideas and belief sets accepted to American liberals or progressives. Even in a state university here in Texas, I had to keep my libertarian views tightly closeted to pass political science and humanities courses. In one case, a history professor removed me from his class rolls because I wrote something he didn't like for the school paper. None of this is reasonable at a taxpayer supported university.
In natural sciences and math classes, it was a much more positive picture. I talked physics and politics with my ponytailed, sandles-wearing prof. We both had a blast.
As far as Texas' book battles, it'd be wrong to see this as a fixture of only the Left or the Right. This battle has been raging in the US since at least the 1950's. This latest action on school textbook selections should be seen in the context of these ongoing battles.
Teaching biological evolution isn't "liberal bias." Even in Texas, few religious people want the state involved in religious instruction. Fewer still want it taught in science classes. Bottom line, every ideology and political party has it's nutters...
Ideally, we'd give up the idea of indoctrinating and controlling thoughts in public schools. But it's rare for humanity to get ideal solutions. :p
this is not something THAT advanced. this is plain old conservative bigotry, exactly similar with how islamists get textbooks rewritten in middle east. there is no glorious, epic side to that. illiterate, bigoted extremists brainwashing children. that's all there is to it.
one important note is, it needs to be prevented. if the experience in middle east is anything to show for it, it is easy to brainwash entire generations while they are raising with that kind of targeted brainwashing. it is vrey hard to liberate children's minds once they get past the age of 16-17 while being brainwashed.
sue them, say a stop to it.
Read radical news here
Study of Sir Isaac Newton is dropped in favor of examining scientific advances through military technology
Jesus on a donkey, I can hear Rumsveld and Cheney laughing maniacally in the background.
C = X * D * K
There are C 'chosen' lands based on number of religions (X) for any number of personal 'god(s)' (D) times the 'constant' of self-absorbed-ness of said religion (K).
This leads to the conclusion that given a sufficient supply of religious nuts in power that are too self-centered this number will by definition increase until:
C > #Countries
This of course resulting in religiously motivated wars for land where multiple religions make 'holy' claims to.
> "We as a nation were intended by God to be a light set on a hill to serve as a beacon of hope and Christian charity to a lost and dying world."
Don't they have medication for this kinda thing?
but... but... The sun never sets on the British Empire...
Texas would be far better off independant. Kick them out of the US and let them soar to new heights as they can free all the potential of their free entreprise god driven nation.
Did the Dunbar amendment about "free enterprise" pass? It's not mentioned. It says she "backed [it]," but not that she was successful. We're left to fill in the blanks.
Google is your friend: Texas Conservatives Win Curriculum Change
There is one last chance: the Board of Education will make a final vote on Friday, May 21.
Please define 'God'.
Imaginary friend for adults?
"a nation chosen by God as a beacon to the world, and free enterprise as the cornerstone of liberty and democracy."
That's EXACTLY the same words that my misguided Afrikaans ancestors used when they were justifying appartheid. Same shit, different country.
And before that - it was the exact same words that the Germans used to justify World War 2. I say this at risk of being Godwin'ing myself but I am by no means downplaying the holocaust as horror (in fact, I'm in the process of writing a science fiction story in which the protagonists are descendents of holocaust survivors so I have been doing significant research on the topic). I'm not saying biased schoolbooks = holocaust, I'm just saying the justification is the same they used.
Mind you, those Afrikaner's were under significant Nazi influence - that's just historical fact. In the early 50's a huge proportion of the Afrikaner voters were members of the Ossewabrandwag - a Nazi propaganda group founded during world war 2 to try and convince South Africa to switch from allies to axis.
Before that, it was the same words the British used to justify the destruction of two independent republics through the systematic killing of 27 thousand women and children in the South African concentration camps.
Right now, it's the exact same words the Chinese government is using to justify turning a sixth of the worlds population into sweatshop workers that is only one step away from slaves (a step DOWN in many cases). Well "mandate of heaven" is near as makes no difference.
Just how big a set of ideological blinders do you need to be wearing to make the same mistakes yet again, the same arguments that have consistently led to the persecution of individualism and subsequent atrocities, and somehow convince yourself that what you're doing is about individual liberty and freedom.
It's like humanity has a predisposed concept that "individual freedom" is the right to live as I please, but other people only get it if they want to use it to live the same way I do - despite the obvious logical error of such thinking. Critical thinking is a good defense against that, but apparently it's a skill more rare than rocket scientists.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
are doomed to repeat it. Whats one of the main reasons the pilgrims came to America? Escape from religious persecution! That's it. I'm homeschooling my future kids. Fuck this shit. What happened to separation of church and state? There never was any. If this "purge" gets approved (and I hope it doesn't) I'm hoping the supreme court would do something about this... How is this even legal!? This isn't rational, this isn't sane. This is true lunacy! but I digress. Odds are it won't pass, but this really gets me pissed. Believe in what you want, that's fine. But start pushing it on others or secretly slipping it to their kids through what should be basic education and now you've crossed the line.
Readin', 'Ritin', and 'Rithmetic will become God, Guns, and Gay-hatin'....
'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
And it wasn't the United States.
Yeah, but Australians don't like to brag.
I am anarch of all I survey.
This is just one, long, chauvinistic tirade of innuendo. It's 'commentary' if we're feeling charitable, insulting propaganda about 'gun toting, Bible kissing hicks' in the U.S. if we're not.
You say that as if it were something unusual. Far be it for many to allow facts or context (or the lack of either) to get in the way of a good conservative Christian-bashing.
Here's an exercise for those outraged. Compare Texas schoolbooks to those in Saudi Arabia or Iran, or any of a number of other countries I could name, and tell me which set is more religiously-biased and has more history-revision. Then tell me why the textbooks that are among the least religiously-biased or "revised" in the entire world are the ones receiving the most outrage & attention.
Seems a bit selective and politically "convenient". Particularly when there seems to be an issue with the facts as to what the actual situation re: any such revisions actually passed or even likely to pass is.
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
you'd have even less shoddy education than that found in these medieval texan proposals
private institutions would have a lot more latitude. you'd have the christian version of fundamentalist madrassas churning out christian holy warriors in texas
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
This is a joke right?
Cuz It's hard to belive people could be that retarded in this day and age.
This is almost as absurd as teaching Creationizem alongside Evolution.
Isn't this how Germans started thinking they are chosen nation, then educating their youth the right way, then establishing clear race, and you know the rest. For me, as European, I stop seeing difference compared to let's say Middle East countries with their own way of expressing religion into educational system. Hello Texas, Deja Vu? What comes next? Denying voting rights to women?
There is no light without darkness.
Good on you! That sounds like the right thing to do. I don't live in the US any more, so I have no Congressman to write. But leaving Texas to stew in it might be just right. (Full disclosure: I was born and bred in Texas, but I do not subscribe to the positions of the OP.)
Why is it so scary? Oh no, the US wasn't chosen by God. Neither was the UK, and my life didn't just change for the worse. In fact, it's no different than it was 10 minutes ago when I didn't know that.
Or maybe I just knew that it makes no difference. He loves us all, as you all know, if we're going to get into a theological debate.
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
Thank you for sharing your opinion with the Office of the Governor. It will be forwarded to the appropriate staff member.
It seems to me that Texas is supporting a conservative bias, and that is not okay with me.
But, let's be honest, US academia has over-whelming supported a strong liberal bias for years. If Texas was re-writing history to support an agenda that was more favorable to the liberal point of view, it would hardly be news.
It seems to me that the media is up-in-arms over a local government pushing a conservative agenda, but the same media is all too happy to ignore local governments that rewrite history to favor a liberal agenda.
Isn't this mirroring what the fundies in the middle east and other places say?
Being god's chosen people, god's chosen country, blah blah blah?
How long more before you get a real christian taleban there?
From the Guardian:
You really think the Guardian, one of the most liberal news organizations in the world, is going to give a non-biased opinion on this story?
Those corrections have prompted a blizzard of accusations of rewriting history and indoctrinating children by promoting rightwing views on religion, economics and guns,
As opposed to what, indoctoring them with left wing views? Didn't the summery state that they were trying to get rid of liberal bias? So, it sounds like you are replacing one form of biased history with another. I would love to see history that is truely purged of any bias, but have yet to see it. Historical accounts are generally recorded by survivors or by the victors, and so you have to take some things with a grain of salt.
As to science, stuff that is proven, that shouldn't be messed with. If Texas wants to teach religion in ADDITION to science, that's one thing, teaching it in place of science is another. Living in Texas, I can tell you that the thought is NOT to throw out science.
Lastly, they used the words "accusations" - that does not mean there is necessaraly any truth to it.
And finally (this really is lastly), it looks that while it is an ongoing newsstory, in my skiming of the article, it does not look like the Guardian is introducing any new information. It sounds like an editorial of an ongoing newsstory.
Is there a reputable group called something like "Texans for Educational Sanity"? Where do we sign up and send cash to help put a stop to this crap?
there are grey areas in any sacred text. from the bible, to the quran, to the constitution and the bill of rights. any document, written down by anyone (or anything, since some believe some texts are actually from nonhuman beings) requires interpretation
it is not possible to write down every shade of meaning in words. words have an automatic built on grey area. there is no such thing possible as capturing every nuance of your meaning in the written word. that's why legal documents are so mind numbingly tedious: they are trying to capture every nuance. and yet they still fail. that's why new law is always being written: constantly nailing down the gray areas, creating new gray areas... repeat ad nauseum
but what we have in this world are people like yourself: fundamentalists
whether constitutional fundamentalist, or christian or muslim fundamentalist, it does not matter, you fall into the same problem: you interpret your sacred text a certain way, and then assert that your interpretation is the only interpretation possible. despite the fact that you depend upon just as many assumptions when you gloss over the grey area in your sacred texts as the most liberal "activist judges" or whatever you think is a horrible person: you do the same thing, you're a hypocrite
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
It's funny. At some point, being held to, and holding yourself to, high standards seems to have fallen out of fashion.
The reason that the stuff in Texas receives more outrage and attention is twofold: one, Slashdot is a largely, though hardly exclusively, US audience, so a fair slice of its members may be not too many steps away from being personally affected. More important though, is that nobody expects various authoritarian theocracies to act well, so when the don't, nobody is surprised. Texas, by contrast, is supposed to know better, so people are disappointed when they don't.
Seriously. When did "Oh yeah, at least we aren't like those rag-heads and commies!" come to equal "good enough"?
Texas should not need to use a crutch like being compared to Iran.
Even the Bible Thumping Texans should have more pride than that.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
...actually it's not, it's bullshit, but is anyone surprised?
I'm 43.
I grew up through grade school when the Left's dominance in education (in the US) was only really starting to assert itself. This was evident in the rewriting of textbooks, ostensibly to remove gender and ethnic bias, to show that women and blacks contributed in equivalent measure to white males in the founding of the United States.
In high school it became more pronounced, with more and more teachers deliberately pursuing a curriculum of 'alternative' views of history, spending more and more time focussed on the contributions of women and people of color.
Finally in college in the mid-to-late 80's the transformation was, if not complete, advanced to a point of dominance. The entire Liberal Arts (and even, amazingly, the sciences) was dedicated largely to the study of 'little brown babies' more than the widely-disparaged 'dead white males'. Aristotle? Plato? Caesar? Phht..let's spend time dissecting Maya Angelou! Even something as seemingly-neutral as group educational requirements - you need X credits from group A (sciences), Y from B (language), etc. - was PC-biased: the ONLY courses that filled 3+ group requirements (and thus were the most efficient in terms of dollars spent) were, you guessed it, courses like "Native American culture of the 1800's" and "Marxism and Post-Colonial Latin America". One had to look quite hard to even FIND courses that studied the writings of Dead White Males.
As a result, I have two comments about the proposed textbook changes:
First - the Left shouldn't be surprised. The Right has started to figure out that conceding education to the Left means children spend much of their school years being indoctrinated, not taught. So the Right is understandably accessing the same tactic. Ironically, where the Left characterizes itself as the populist, revanchist ideology normally, in this case it's the Right that is using populism and appeals to judges to break the lock of the entrenched Left on education.
Secondly - I'd guess that within 5-8 years, the Right will find out this tactic is backfiring. As general education has shifted far more Leftward in the last couple of decades, I sense that (painting with a very broad, generalist brush) that public mood, even among the young and stupid, is shifting reactionarily to the RIGHT. Unsurprising, if one accepts the general view that kids react against the previous generation, and since parents seem to be more often abandoning their responsibilities (forcing teachers to spend more time acting like parents, instead of simply teaching). The Leftward taint of my education contributed significantly to my own strongly Rightist biases, I'd be surprised if a Rightward shift in TX didn't produce a similar Leftward shift in the youth being taught.
-Styopa
because God would never trust an Englishman in the dark...
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill I'm only willing to point that out because I'm not from Indiana, I just live here.
I think you overlooked the tone of my message. Probably the easiest way to explain it to you, is I don't care, I don't think it's important, and I think the whole liberal and conservative bias thing is bullshit. It's all some bias to serve an agenda, and it rarely has anything to do with liberalism or conservatism, if those concept are even defined well enough and agreed on that they can be discussed in any rational way.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
The Green Party is neither left nor right, they are about ähhm, the green stuff
I read TFA, there are fundamental flaws in the results of Cynthia Dunbar's shouting at the rain. There are two sides to every argument, Mizz Dunbar's side of this national debate basically states, "Its OK to be proudly ignorant." I believe that it is not.
To echo some of the commentary here, no one on any side should be surprised. We have come to the point in the US where it's more important to hold a position rather than be objective, where it's more important to be taught TO rather than taught how to THINK. The Education system has been shifting undeniably leftwards and downwards. So this push-back from the right isn't surprising.
The middle-ground is rapidly become an untenable position, while at the same time getting flooded, leaving a bell spike with smaller spikes on left and right, not a bell curve.
The fundamental inalienable truths of history, country, family, life and God are being twisted - by both sides - because they sincerely believe in what they believe in. While it's not quite fair to assail someone - anyone - for their beliefs, it is fair to assail them for pushing indoctrination over education - the steady rise of charter schools and homeschooling has a direct correlation to this impetus.
Finally, regardless of current education systems - unless there's ramifications for educators, students and parents for failures to perform nothing will change.
Honestly wild posts like this are part of the problem - where one side pushes it's agenda over the other. The ability to read, research, distill and think for oneself is rapidly fading away, much as every year the population of real software developers and systems engineers seems to shrink, replaced by rote-learned automatons.
Teach a man to think, and he'll push back the darkness is whole life.
be0wulfe
This story is more about this official and short on details. It's largely "they did this" and "they did that." I'd like to see more details like specific textbook examples before I go trodding off to Texas to tell them they need to do something or not. In the long run, their a sovereign state. I don't live there so...
I do, however, find the notion that:
"Two years ago, she published a book, One Nation Under God, in which she argued that the United States was ultimately governed by the scriptures."
disturbing. Yet, it's no more disturbing than finding out teachers and professors have authored papers on "re-distribution of wealth" or "population control."
There is and has been "liberal" slants in education for decades. Texas has swung far right. Perhaps the truth gets tainted but it gets tainted by both sides. Teach kids to discern and the smart ones will come through it.
"purge of alleged liberal bias in Texas school textbooks"
There's nothing "alleged" to it, for quite some time now the liberals have controlled the present, future, etc...(insert 1984 indoctrination quotes of choice). The conservatives went all ostritch in the sand for years, and let the liberals write the latest version of the truth.
Do I agree with what the right wing wackos are trying to insert...not for the most part, but I know for a fact that the left wing wackos have been inserting their B.S. and purging truth that agrees with moderate or right wing views whenever they can.
Sounds like it's just turnabout with a different set of crazies.
Hell, aren't we all supposed to be post-modern anyway...no objective truths anymore and all that crap? So it shouldn't be surprising that whoever is in control at the moment will push their pet agendas as if it were gospel.
We just need to stop pretending that textbooks teach any objective truths. All 5,000 or whatever world-views each need their own "version of the truth" textbooks, right? All are as valid as any other according to the post-modern B.S. ?
What do you propose? What exactly do you think we should compromise here? The planet is at stake. Should we compromise the planet?
As God is bigger than the universe (in a similar sense that the mathematical set of surreal numbers is larger than than the set of real numbers), the universe does not contain enough information to even begin to define God. What human beings know of God are only approximations -- which aren't remotely adequate for scientific or objective evaluation.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Don't talk to me in that petulant tone. You know perfectly well I'm not suggesting that we compromise the planet.
No; I'm suggesting we compromise on the means to achieve our goals. What we want is to reduce c02 emissions; how we get there is not the important thing.
We must compromise the means, because we don't want to compromise the ends, and if we don't compromise anything, then we won't get anything. Then the planet is endangered.
What I suggest is that the environmental movement become rabidly pro-nuclear, and that they strongly favor nuclear big business. They should also suggest reducing safety requirements at nuclear reactors. Yes, I said it. The environmental movement should favor reducing safety requirements at nuclear reactors. That would make nuclear reactors cheaper than burning coal and would be politically possible, unlike the everyone-grow-your-own-food-and-stop-using-electricity scenario. If the environmental movement did as I'm suggesting, then they could conceivably have the effect of reducing c02 emissions rather than increasing them.
There's no re-writing of history when you can't cover all of history. Choosing what is in the history books is not the same as saying that something didn't occur. The internet allows people to discover what they want; to answer their own questions. The fact that Texas wants to fill 500 pages with "other" history is not a problem. Maybe getting back to some Christian-based ideas wouldn't be too bad...after all, isn't that what this nation was founded on. It seems like we forget that aspect of our history as well.
Playing with guns, dressing up like cowboys! Now wanting reality to be one way so they rewrite history and click their ruby slippers together three times...
I'm pretty sure we left Kansas when the Amistad arrived.
Because GOD says so. And Texas was the first state in the Union, so we get to call the shots, after all, we won the civil war. And I didn't get that there girl pregnant, biology got nuthin' to do with it, GOD got her pregnant. Leave me alone so I can drink my beer and shoot out windows while driving my pickup truck. God made America for us to do whatever we want, as long as we say three hail mary's after we done whatever we did. So, if the kids are smarter than the school board, they'll contest every answer they get wrong on every test, because all they need to do is say "God says so".
If the school board can change "learning" to their benefit, so can every single student in the state Texas. Go for it. Idiocracy is prophecy.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
Now you're just being cheeky and provocative. It won't work; I see through it.
You know perfectly well that the environmental movement considers nuclear power to be as bad as coal burning, or worse. Therefore, they would accomplish nothing by favoring nuclear power. Granted, they would reduce c02 emissions, but that is not their primary objective. They have never really cared about c02, and they don't now. What the environmentalist movement really wants is a reduction in technology and a return to a simpler life. That is their objective. Their claims about c02 are really just means to that end, as you perfectly well know.
I cannot continue this debate with you, if you reject the most elemental degree of honesty and sincerity. You feign ignorance about the motives of the environmental movement when those motives are obvious to everyone. After all, why would the environmental movement favor biofuels so consistently, when biofuels increase c02 emissions and destroy the environment? Obviously, because biofuels promise a return to a simpler mode of life (grow things and burn wood!) and not because they help the environment. And you can't help but realize these things. Don't pretend you think otherwise.
I think the Federal Government needs to move and eliminate all Federal funding for the Texas school system.
If they're going to turn all their children into ignorant fools, they can do it on their own dime!
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
"Actually, I'm Canadian, not American".
I'm not really Canadian, but you know, I'm thinking that could be a *really* useful phrase to remember if I'm ever traveling outside the U.S.
Now, maybe I'm overreacting and I haven't even bothered to read what the rest of the community has written, but this could spell doom for our country. While I'm willing to agree that maybe Augustus Caesar was able to pull Rome under his guiding hand by having the eponymous history of his nation written, but I also seem to remember it all falling apart for those guys just awhile (ok, long while-Justinian) later at the hands of a supposedly "inferior" band of Barbaric Tribes! Texas, you suck absolutely, you stole my mother's soul, made a ten year old girl cry and have inflicted this nation with horrible debt! I blame you for GWB. Period. I may be wrong but you don't seem to give a Sh8 about the truth, so why should I?! VIVA MEXICO!!!
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference.
A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
I own that I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive.
Of course, there is also:
I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
We need a separation of church and state, including state education.
I am the unwilling control for my Origin.
Yes, we need to STOP having education by the nanny state. The government should get it's nose entirely out of education/indoctrination.
You're right; God will never be disproven because it's not possible to disprove. If nothing else, there always remains the possibility that there is a God who wants it to seem as if there is not. That's the problem with claiming limitless power and omnipotence I suppose. It tends to throw a wrench in any scientific process.
That said, when something is LITERALLY impossible to disprove then perhaps absence of proof isn't as bad as you make it out to be. It's not perfect, but it's the best we have.
I discount it because it's retarded. You can't rant for half a paragraph about how somebody saying "there is no God" is false because it relies on itself and then make a statement like "God exists because people believe he exists." It's nothing more than double-talk to push an agenda.
Do you know what people believing in God means? That people believe in God. Nothing more, nothing less. Children believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny with an unshakable, passionate believe (until they're older anyway!); that doesn't make them real.
Why is it so scary?
most of us believe that much of our national blessing comes from siding with Israel these last many decades
Perhaps I was unclear. I find it scary that someone would
But then I always find political statements with a religious basis pretty damn scary.
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
"after all, isn't that what this nation was founded on."
Funny, I thought our nation was founded on protest against the Governance of the British Crown?
Go read the declaration of Independence. Now, it obviously is very much informed by Christianity, and Christian values, BUT, there is a long list of grievances in the Declaration, NONE of which have anything whatsoever to do with the exercise of religion (well, it may be possible, I suppose, that some of the laws which he either refused his Assent to, or imposed on the colinies, might have had something to do with religious practice - I leave that possibility open, but the Declaration isn't very concerned with religious matters).
The Constitution likewise, is certainly informed by Christian values, but it clearly defines a secular government.
Was Christianity important in shaping the worldview and beliefs of many of the revolutionaries?
If you want to go back *earlier* than the Revolution, you can look at the first British settlement/colony in the present-day U.S. - Jamestown, VA. That had nothing whatsoever to do with religion - it was all about seeking resources in North America so that investors and colonists could get rich. Good old fashioned greed.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6092712.html
The woman is an absolute wack-job!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynthia_Dunbar
"No one will really be free until nerd persecution ends."
You need to take your thorazine.
Here is a quote from your original post:
Anyone who could suspect that has obviously lost his reason... I pity you.
People generally initially only believe in Santa clause or the easter bunny because they are told that these entities exist... many people believe in God because of personal experiences that are independent of such teaching. While of course it's always scientifically possible that such experiences could either be misinterpretations of natural phenomena or even outright hallucinations, one could point out that it's also scientifically possible that everything that we believe to be real may be nothing more than a simulation in some hyper-dimensional computer, including even our own consciousness.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
While I no doubt disagree with Dunbar on just about...everything...the Guardian article is somewhat of a hit piece. For instance, consider this quote:
This makes it sound as if Jefferson was removed from the U.S. History curriculum in favor of the confederates. Jefferson was, in fact, removed from the "World History" curriculum, on the basis that his contributions were minor (on the world stage) compared ot the other Enlightment philosophers on which his views were based. This, presumably, is why Calvin was added. While he wasn't the only reformer by far, he's sort of the poster boy for the protestant reformation, which was a pretty big event in "World History". What's truly bizarre about that modification is that it throws Aquinas, Calvin and Blackstone in with all the Enlightenment guys. You can read the actual word-for-word change here.
This quote:
...is also fairly disingenuous. The board essentially voted to include a discussion fo the right to bear arms in a portion of the curriculum dealing with free expression and first amendment rights.
I would probably oppose almost all of the changes that were made, and I fully agree they were made with idealogical motivations, but I'd also say the Guardian has exagerrated how "crazy" the changes really are.
When you find that the facts conflict with your ideology, it must be the facts that are wrong, so go ahead and change the facts.
"He who controls the spice, controls the universe!"
-Baron Harkonnen
Luckily for you the proletariat are mostly working in factories thousands of miles away so you'll never have the chance to discuss it with them.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
I get your point...but there were multiple nations on earth "Chosen by God".
Britannia felt they were chosen by God.
Romans felt they were chosen by God.
Hell most of the ancient world thought they were chosen by God.
Japanese felt they were chosen by God.
Chinese felt they were chosen by God.
But to your point, both Muslims and Jewish nations felt they were uniquely chosen by God. Which one are you referring to?
A God by any other name is still a God.
When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, 'This you may not read, this you may not see, this you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything--you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him.
Robert Heinlein
If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur. --Red Adair
"The science PROVES it - along with several other things" No, damnit, science does not prove anything. Furthermore, science cannot prove OR disprove a damn thing that happens in the bible. Scientific theories are basically educated guesses that are tested through experimentation and thus can only be disproved by an experiment in which the hypothesis does not hold. It doesn't matter how many experiments are consistent with the hypothesis, it is never PROVEN because there's the possibility that an experiment will disprove it in the future.
Uh, you realise that there have been philosophers of science since Popper, don't you? Kuhn and Feyerbrand for example. O'Hear has a good overview from Bacon to the current day.
Religion and science are two entirely separate things. ..... The two are diametrically opposed.
I think that one of the world's top evolutionary biologists, Steven Jay Gould, might disagree with you there.
"So, I need to put my brain in the trash bin to have a religion?" Yes, because believing in any religion requires believing in things with no evidence to support their existence, which is stupid.
Ah, think what Bacon, Kepler, Linnaeus, Faraday, Babbage, Maxwell, Kelvin, or Plank might have achieved had they not put their brains in the trash!
You are a true believer. Blessings of the state, blessings of the masses. Thou art a subject of the divine. Created in the image of man, by the masses, for the masses.
Let us be thankful we have an occupation to fill. Work hard; increase production, prevent accidents, and be happy.
In the Internet age, one cannot really control information. When Texan children start hearing/reading about the alternate views they will begin to doubt everything they've been taught. This will likely not even wait until the traditional "gone to college and learning more about the world" intellectual rebellion. I predict it'll happen much sooner, closer to middle school. Unfortunately, this won't be the case with all of the children but then again, many people are sheep in general.
Note I am not saying we shouldn't object, just pointing out a possible drawback for the originators of this policy.
You know the thing about UDP jokes? I don't care if you get it or not.
"Free enterprise as the cornerstone of liberty and democracy."
That's completely true. Capitalism is intrinsically tied to liberty.
And really, I'd prefer if you didn't call be "conservative"...
(emphasis mine)
Just wanted to wish you a quick recovery from your cold.
This is probably moot in an electoral position, but shouldn't these books be written by people who are well, you know, experts in history?
The worst part about this farce is that someone without educational experience or relevant academic experience can just waltz in and start dictating things. What happened to the part where we actually listen to qualified experts with degrees in relevant fields?
I know that the right-wing agenda can still be reinforced by bringing in right-wing historians that do support these crackpot-proreligious theories, but at least they'd be appealing to a -fake- authority. I'm disturbed that this woman hasn't even had to bring in a Dr. So-And-So to back up her credibility.
Its that because of a few bad teachers and some kids that get past the system we have to revamp the system so it takes out every bit of common sense and thought possible using things like a 1 size fits all standardized test and force teachers to only focus upon that.
Furthermore, most people don't realize that a stock market mentality is being applied to these standards where the school has to do better than previous years or be punished for poor performance. Infinite growth is not sustainable in business (we are still learning this) and definitely is not in education. Some kids will perform poorly, PERIOD. Not all types can be reached (yet) and not all parents are equal for that matter either... Obviously, some textbooks and likely some texas standardized tests will not be equal, fair, or possibly even correct. I can't wait for the kid who fails some future texas exam question on creationism!
The religion aspect is even more nutty; its not FAITH if you do not have any choice; no establishment of religion allows for faith to exist legitimately. Jesus himself turned down being a political leader / king as well as arguably being violent when he kicked out the money changers from the temple. The word mammon also comes from him; although, I've not found a Christian yet who knows the term. The early Christians WERE NOT ALLOWED TO CHARGE INTEREST! This is actually where the jewish banker thing came from because they were allowed to do so; that is, until mammon overcame Christian dogma.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
the Soviet Union did in fact spend large amounts of money and influence to induce as much unrest and disruption as possible.
Yeah, the KGB was real. Yeah, the Soviet Union had a massive spy program. The stars on the wall at the CIA aren't there for decoration. Reagan didn't call them "the Evil Empire" for nothing.
I'll go you one better. I'll bet the Chinese, right now, have more than maybe one or two active assets in the US. In fact, I'll bet there's at least one Chinese spy on American soil who reads Slashdot. They probably enjoy the unfettered internet access.
But how many actual spies did McCarthy and HUAC turn up? Oh, yeah, that's right, exactly none of them. How many lives did they ruin across the Arts and Academia? A lot. I'll personally never forgive them for the Dalton Trumbo stories they cost us.
But, by all means, there is no God but Reagan and Nixon is his profit. Go forth and spread the Word that McCarthy was a patriot crucified for America. While you're at it, you should set the record straight and let everyone know Roy Cohn died of liver cancer too.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
When I got to college, I discovered that my high school history books were wrong (e.g. presenting the invasion of the Americas by the Europeans as some sort of vaguely defined noble undertaking rather than free market economic expansion), sometimes absurdly so. I then got some real history books, written by historians for adults, and found the historical truths that support neither the modern day "conservative" nor "liberal" viewpoints.
Bottom line? Everyone gets over it.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
What a surprise the US wants to make themselves sound better then they are. You can't just change history because of how bad your country has screwed it's self. Who else had 3 major attacks in one day 9/11 anyone. The US just likes to piss off everyone and leave, once they left they take great offense if anyone claims they didn't do Gods work. Here's another fact, the US deserved 9/11 they deserved the economic claps and they deserve to have a war taken against them. The US is a horrible country founded on being cheats and corrupt views.
During the founding of the United States, it was religious leaders who were adamant that church and state be separated. Religious freedom was what they wanted. It is ironic that the same people who once sought the separation of church and state are now trying to subvert that precept. If they succeed, it will come back to haunt them when their version of church becomes the minority.
Best regards.
Yes, it is, and I'm not sincere about it. Think of the suggestion more as a happy daydream than an actual proposal. :-)
But, on the other hand, Bubba thinks he's gonna strike oil in his back yard one day and get rich, so he votes for every tax cut for the wealthy thinking he's going to join them one day.
By the same token, Bubba thinks Junior's gonna go to the Ivy League after he finishes his night school. Telling Bubba and Madge the President of the Homeowners Association that Bubba Junior maybe ain't going to Princeton cuz the skool ain't teaching him right might get their attention. :-)
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
Sorry, had a brain glitch, and forgot to complete a paragraph. . .
Was Christianity important in shaping the worldview and beliefs of many of the revolutionaries? But was it really "what our country was founded on"? What does it even mean to say our country was founded on something? I should think the Declaration and Constitution give the clearest statement, to the extent you even *can* make a statement. Many many MANY people over the years migrated to the U.S. for all kinds of reasons. Religion was only one of those reasons, and even at the ratification of the Constitution in the 1790s, I'm sure there were lots of people who were looking for freedom, economic opportunity, or just to escape from wars or people trying to kill them in their old countries.
There is no God. Fuck Texass.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall, re Voltaire
Where do I send the campaign contributions?
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
No. People who repeatedly deny objective, verifiable facts need to be openly mocked.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Up-mod this: The Founding Fathers Were Not Christians
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
It's the same as the erasure of Jefferson. They can't win the long game, unless they can erase the principle of the separation of church and state, and the scientific method of discovery, from a generation, really, only a slight majority of a generation. They can't do it wholesale, so they start undermining the roots. Once they have erased enough history, they'll be able to establish their religious theocracy, launch the nukes, and ascend to heaven in a fountain of heart-bursting joy.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Even Americans *you* hate have the right of free speech. Flying flags is protected speech. So is protesting the present Administration. Get used to it.
We all have our belief sets and biases. Don't like one particular Cable News Channel? Switch to another.
The problem comes when there are no alternatives, *and* coercive, punitive measures are used to enforce conformity with political orthodoxy.
There is nothing sadder then an American pretending to be someone else.
I'm not from the Eastern Bloc (yes you misspelled it and that's what they actually call it) but I know a fair few people from Russia, Latvia, Poland and the former Yugoslavia (a lot of Macedonian came to Australia after the fall of communism). What you say is complete and utter nonsense. The US had nothing to do with the fall of the Eastern Bloc it was 1. dissent from inside the eastern block against the soviets (most notably Hungary and Yugoslavia (Tito)) and 2. poor Soviet economic planning going back to Stalin's policies post WWII. The US had absolutely nothing to do with the fall of Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc, get a grip, get some perspective and for $DEITIES sake man, get a sense of humour.
Also almost all Eastern Europeans learned British English (En_UK), so reflect on that before trying this stunt again.
whoever modded this insightful also needs a grip, perspective and a sense of humour.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Read it. Biggest pile of right wing tripe I've seen since the last time I saw something of Fox News.
Here is an example pulled right from the economics section:
You do of course understand, this is teaching the kids a subjective, conservative, value judgement and not even a complete one. Governments all over this planet have highly successful socialist programs. Come to think of it, the United States itself has a few socialist programs. I was at the protest yesterday on the steps of the capitol and I will continue the fight against these fundamentalist nut jobs.
No animals were harmed in the making of this sig.
Well, there was that one puppy, but he is all better now.
Parent makes some very good points and should not be censored because certain individuals disagree with them.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Those damn liberals, making sure textbooks are filled with useless things like 'facts'
I did a Ctrl-F to find any mention of "Starship Troopers".
Surprised nobody mentioned it. How far away is this from mandatory conscription in order to get citizenship?
No "Google is not my friend," in this case.
We're left to fill in the blanks. That's my point. I know how to fill the blanks, but McGreal doesn't know which blanks are important to his own journalistic integrity.
I'm saying that as a reporter, if you bring up an amendment or set of amendments, you either used the word "proposed," and say who the person is caucusing with, or you tally the vote, say, 9-4 in favor, or at least say whether it is in process, rejected or passed.
McGreal failed to do any of that.
A journalist isn't allowed to claim "Google is your friend." Not if you're serious about reporting. Not if you expect to make a point.
--
Toro
That's true. It doesn't need that crutch.
Bible thumping Texans should not be criticized and belittled by some smart-ass chauvinist from England, for a UK paper, with a disgruntled board member. The rest of Texas should be pretty upset too. I hope they tell her how they appreciate it in the next election. They just need a ballot box.
That's the power that Iran lacks.
--
Toro
As a loyal UVA alumni I hope Mr Jefferson would find the stupidity of the Texas attempt to sideline him amusing. In truth by attempting top pull off a stupid stunt like this they only succeed in making the opposition stronger and more aware/ attentive to this kind of idiocy. My dear, departed mom struggled with school boards and text book issues in Mr Jefferson's home state of Virginia for many years as a lobbyist for the PTA and found the battles that raged over school texts quite frustrating. The problem is that Texas ( and California and New York) have so many schools and insist on publishers providing for their wants at the exclusion of anyone else's interests. Thus, the rest of the country has to choose which of these school system's textbooks they will choose. The publishers will not provide more than those three. So, I think Mr Jefferson would agree that this should provide a needed impetus to revolt against the textbook hegemony of those three states. This could lead to a system where individual states or even school systems can provide etexts that are suitable to their wants and needs. If Texas wants the world to know that they deliberately provide substandard education to their children then so be it, but it shouldn't mean that the choices of other school systems are reduced.
Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
So, you support school choice, except for those people to whom you feel superior? Get bent.
Not at all. Of course the same choices must be available to everyone; anything else is oppression, plain and simple.
I was just pointing out that choice is not a perfect solution, though I do believe it is superior to all the other ones that have been tried so far. People will find a way to do damaging things no matter what the system, and I do not think it is helpful to pretend otherwise merely for the sake of argument.
Gee, round up people who disagree with you and put them into re-education camps. Somehow, I think this has been tried before. It didn't work then either.
LK
Actually, it kinda did. It was an awful thing to do, but succeeded in keeping both Stalin and Mao in power for decades, and giving them closer to absolute authority within their respective countries. I don't advocate it because it's wrong, but it did work.
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
or the whole Obama fear.
Because we should all be just happy that we have a president who has wasted billions of taxpayer dollars, supports a supreme court nominee vowed against true freedom of speech and supports unsustainable programs. Right?
I'm pretty sure he said Obama, not Bush.
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
For anyone who, like me, is wondering how in the world anyone could be defending McCarthy, here's how. Ann Coulter has been pushing this nonsense that we found "sekret papers" from the KGB that prove McCarthy had it right all along, sort of like the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion," only for Commies instead of Jews.
OK, got that? We have a secret list proving that McCarthy's secret list was the right secret list all along.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled sanity currently in progress.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
Look, I know you read her book and all, but the documents you're trying to reference by way of Ann Coulter don't mean what she says they mean.
We know this because the only person saying they do is Ann. The Emory professor who actually brought those docs to light has recoiled in horror and publicly disavowed her interpretation of them.
So, for the record, the Venona papers do not exonerate McCarthy, Ann is still a shrill harpy, and shouldn't you be glued to the television watching Rush right about now?
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
tsk tsk, that should be "the teachers' unions are..."
Someone needs to go back to school for more of that hardcore lefty grammar practise.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
I'm not quite sure who Ann Coulter is. I first read about Venona in a history of the NSA and even got around to having a look at the transcripts themselves.
I got many of my contrarian views from reading Russian historians like Volkogonov and Suvorov (both guys with definite agendas, mind you).
Something bad is coming when people are suddenly anxious to tell the truth.
Sorry for the double reply, but I am curious. What is Rush? Some TV series, or are you referring to Rush Limbaugh? You see, I do not hail from the Land of the Free (nor do I live in it) so your entertainment icons are quite unfamiliar to me.
Something bad is coming when people are suddenly anxious to tell the truth.
Can't we just let/force Texas to secede from the Union. I still don't get why we fought the civil war but that's another issue. It's what they want. Most educated people would be okay with it.
One was term limited and the other didn't even win the Republican primary.
7 of 15 on the State Board of Education (SBOE) are "christian conservatives", 3 are "normal" republicans and the other 5 are democrats. The normal republicans are not fond of the rhetoric or the vast amount of additional regulation (this horseshit is about 40% larger than the old horseshit.) There are still some regulatory burdens to overcome, and with all the light being shined on this, it is unlikely the crazies will get their way.
So simmer down, Texas isn't rewriting history any more than California is...or is it?
"California: La Estada Prima"
It's about time someone addressed the indoctrination taking place in our public schools. The liberal "trend" has turned into a liberal "psunami" over the past fifty years, right has become wrong and wrong is right. How else would such a poser, fraud and louse become POTUS? It past time to return to self reliance and resurrect common sense.
OK. I'll concede the point with regards to China but the eventual dissolution of the USSR provides me with backup.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
OK. I'll concede the point with regards to China but the eventual dissolution of the USSR provides me with backup.
Except that that occurred after decades of de-Stalinization, and was far more connected to the Soviets' nonsensical economic policies than to suppressing dissenters. But I still agree that suppressing ideological opponents is a stupid idea. If nothing else, it will cause OP to go down in history as a cruel inhuman tyrant.
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009