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Armed Man Takes Hostages At Discovery Channel HQ
An anonymous reader writes "The manifesto of the man holding the Discovery Channel hostage with a bomb has been released. He has fired shots and taken hostages. His main complaints are about overpopulation, religion and civilization. He wants them to avoid encouraging people to produce more 'disgusting human babies,' to get people to accept 'Malthus-Darwin science,' reject civilization and its 'disgusting religious-cultural roots,' and to stop 'ALL immigration pollution.'" The man has now been shot by police, and the hostages have been freed.
A new meme is born...
If your bitterest enemies are people who hack the heads off civilians, then I would say you're doing something right.
It's always refreshing when Atheists are the psychos. I'm mean, c'mon! This guy is a representation of all atheists, right? :)
Dead or alive!
Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
I guess he did his bit for over-population.
[FUCK BETA]
Seriously, who holds the people at the Discovery Channel hostage for anything?
This won't affect shark week will it?
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
eliminate yourself first and maybe others will follow.
is cached.
Sometimes, life itself is sarcasm...
... this guy was against religion. We all know how crazy religious people are!
However crazy he has acted or he sounds, he has some valid points.
If he has all of these complaints, he shouldn't have wanted to blow things up. More pollution would have been created by the clean-up and re-building had he blown the building up. I think these crazy people need to think before they engage in their crazy plots. That way, we might listen to them.
GENERATION 25: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social exper
needs to take his own advice and remove himself from the gene pool.
"In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change" --Thich Nhat Hanh
dear crazy guy,
we stoped producing babies (or even trying to) years ago.
the slashdot readership.
Lashing out in violence is a sure fire way to turn away people sympathetic to your cause and make it easy to label anyone with your beliefs "extremist" and marginalize them. Committing violence is never the way to gain true followers.
Is Slashdot trying to turn into CNN now? This isn't news for nerds.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Won't somebody please think of the Froggies!
This disturbed jerk has provided the Pave the Earth right wing with a new Emanuel Goldstein.
"SEE? We told you all the environmentalists hated humanity! This is all the proof we need that global warming is a hoax and that Yellowstone Park should be sold off to create timeshare resorts!"
Invader Zim is back!
Was he from that religion? Seriously...I wanna know.
Millibrain here seems to have got it exactly backwards (http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_documents/0901_demands.pdf):
Develop shows that mention the Malthusian sciences about how food production leads to the overpopulation of the Human race.
I was wondering for a while whether this dumbass was going to make an unexpectedly personal contribution to the zero population growth movement with the help of the local police. At any rate, "Malthusianism" is a perjorative in economics, as in "that's nothing more than warmed over Malthusianism". Where Malthus got it wrong was in not forseeing the economics pressures that drove innovation that in turn increased crop yields so that food supplies could indeed grow exponentially. His reasoning, per se, isn't wrong - but he starts from a false premise.
If your bitterest enemies are people who hack the heads off civilians, then I would say you're doing something right.
The Discovery Channel MUST broadcast to the world their commitment to save the planet and to do the following IMMEDIATELY:
1. The Discovery Channel and it's affiliate channels MUST have daily television programs at prime time slots based on Daniel Quinn's "My Ishmael" pages 207-212 where solutions to save the planet would be done in the same way as the Industrial Revolution was done, by people building on each other's inventive ideas. Focus must be given on how people can live WITHOUT giving birth to more filthy human children since those new additions continue pollution and are pollution. A game show format contest would be in order. Perhaps also forums of leading scientists who understand and agree with the Malthus-Darwin science and the problem of human overpopulation. Do both. Do all until something WORKS and the natural world starts improving and human civilization building STOPS and is reversed! MAKE IT INTERESTING SO PEOPLE WATCH AND APPLY SOLUTIONS!!!!
2. All programs on Discovery Health-TLC must stop encouraging the birth of any more parasitic human infants and the false heroics behind those actions. In those programs' places, programs encouraging human sterilization and infertility must be pushed. All former pro-birth programs must now push in the direction of stopping human birth, not encouraging it.
3. All programs promoting War and the technology behind those must cease. There is no sense in advertising weapons of mass-destruction anymore. Instead, talk about ways to disassemble civilization and concentrate the message in finding SOLUTIONS to solving global military mechanized conflict. Again, solutions solutions instead of just repeating the same old wars with newer weapons. Also, keep out the fraudulent peace movements. They are liars and fakes and had no real intention of ending the wars. ALL OF THEM ARE FAKE! On one hand, they claim they want the wars to end, on the other, they are demanding the human population increase. World War II had 2 Billion humans and after that war, the people decided that tripling the population would assure peace. WTF??? STUPIDITY! MORE HUMANS EQUALS MORE WAR!
4. Civilization must be exposed for the filth it is. That, and all its disgusting religious-cultural roots and greed. Broadcast this message until the pollution in the planet is reversed and the human population goes down! This is your obligation. If you think it isn't, then get hell off the planet! Breathe Oil! It is the moral obligation of everyone living otherwise what good are they??
5. Immigration: Programs must be developed to find solutions to stopping ALL immigration pollution and the anchor baby filth that follows that. Find solutions to stopping it. Call for people in the world to develop solutions to stop it completely and permanently. Find solutions FOR these countries so they stop sending their breeding populations to the US and the world to seek jobs and therefore breed more unwanted pollution babies. FIND SOLUTIONS FOR THEM TO STOP THEIR HUMAN GROWTH AND THE EXPORTATION OF THAT DISGUSTING FILTH! (The first world is feeding the population growth of the Third World and those human families are going to where the food is! They must stop procreating new humans looking for nonexistant jobs!)
6. Find solutions for Global Warming, Automotive pollution, International Trade, factory pollution, and the whole blasted human economy. Find ways so that people don't build more housing pollution which destroys the environment to make way for more human filth! Find solutions so that people stop breeding as well as stopping using Oil in order to REVERSE Global warming and the destruction of the planet!
7. Develop shows that mention the Malthusian sciences about how food production leads to the overpopulation of the Human race. Talk about Evolution. Talk about Malthus and Darwin until it sinks into the stupid people's brains until they get it!!
8. Saving the Planet means saving what's left of the non-human Wildlife by decreasing the Human population. That means stopping the hum
If we don't have any more disgusting babies, how will we get people to work the boats on Deadliest Catch, or drive the rigs on Ice Road Truckers?
Why didn't he just jump off the building, and then make an immediate appearance on Ghost Lab? He would have had all the air time in the world to rant about "parasitic human infants" if he could make the first ever actually non-BS appearance on an idiotic cable ghost hunting show.
Anyway, let's hear it for the Montgomery County PD for taking care of this clown. Alas, we'll now get to listen to him rant in court, too.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Forget about the Cornelia Marie captain, this is better than the Alaskan crab seasons! Let's see who can catch the most bullets!
I'm sure he would love to set off a few nukes to "save" the planet from humanity. Irony knows no bounds with zealots.
Life is not for the lazy.
Like making Discovery Channel an interesting channel to watch again. I am not interested in (*City) Ink or in a cake-baking italian. No more seasons of crab/lobster/nessie fishing. I want the interesting stuff back again, learning things I wouldn't have learned otherwise. I will tolerate endless Rex Hunt reruns if this would be the case.
But no, mister hostage taker has some sort of higher goal here. Typical.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
Jamie Heinemann shot the perp with a potato cannon and knocked him into a tank full of sharks.
Nullius in verba
Well, at least you can't accuse him of being left or right wing:
people to accept 'Malthus-Darwin science,'
don't know what he meant by the 'Darwin' part, but the Malthus part will get him a job in any university
'ALL immigration pollution.'
and this qualifies him to run for governor in any southern state
Did they shoot him with a shark-mounted laser?
We need to keep up the meme...
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
From his manifesto:
Saving the environment and the remaning species diversity of the planet is now your mindset. Nothing is more important than saving them. The Lions, Tigers, Giraffes, Elephants, Froggies, Turtles, Apes, Raccoons, Beetles, Ants, Sharks, Bears, and, of course, the Squirrels.
We must never forget the Squirrels.
We have officially evolved to a time when manifestos regarding hostage situations not only advocate for furry forest creatures, but also contain the acronym "wtf" and employ copious use of the caps lock key. What has our civilization come to?
Also, I thought that Ishmael was *against* forcing people to follow your beliefs because you think they're right, but maybe that's just me...
And finally, I'm pretty sure that the word "oil" isn't a proper noun.
But the work is underway to produce babes, right?
Good just in time for Lock N Load with R. Lee Ermey
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
I wonder how much money that bullet saved the taxpayers.
Overpopulation, indoctrination, complete lack of concern for other species or the environment, etc. These problems are very apparent and I can't see how some people don't realize this. They just keep having more babies, not questioning the government or authority, and trashing the environment without a care in the world. It makes me sick. I applaud this man for expressing his concerns in the very least.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
When I don't like a show, I generally just change the channel. I guess I'm funny that way.
In fact, I believe I speak for the majority when I say that... unless of course the majority of you are stroking your remotes, plotting revenge.
A funny thing about the Ugly. Many women I've talked too don't view another man as "ugly" in the same way men look at each other. It sounds strange, but it's not so much. What matters to women is that men (any man really) are confident, kind, and authoritative at the same time (charisma). It's a sign of being able to raise and care for children properly. Looks OTOH are nice to have, but low on the priority list of what women want in a man. Perhaps that's why the human race continues to have "ugly" people.
Life is not for the lazy.
When Norway gained parliamentary system in 1884, the Norwegian prime minister uttered some (now very famous) words: "All makt i denne sal," literally: "All power [lies] within this hall." The US equivalent seems to be ... at the discovery channel?
Life is Reality
I am guessing the guy would have had his head asplode had he been to China or India... it would have saved us the trouble. And yes, valid concerns, but a TERRIBLE way going about showing it.
He should have complained about their decline into the depths of reality TV. grr
...for a while. There are a finite number of atoms on earth, and exponential functions have a nasty habit of approaching infinity.
Not only that, but he DEMANDED that the Discovery Channel
Find solutions for Global Warming, Automotive pollution, International Trade, factory pollution, and the whole blasted human economy.
Not to be nitpicky, but I think if the Discovery channel could solve those problems, they would.
-- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
Personally, I think that the people who believe the population needs to be controlled should be the first to go. At the moment, there is no population problem. If it's crowded where you live, then move! There's plenty of space. Ever driven across Texas? Plenty of space there... nothing but space there....
No, there is no "-1 I'LL NEVER ADMIT BEING WRONG!!!" mod.
You too have to right to speak with tinfoil hat mode so you can say _THEY_ brainwashed the guy/programmed the guy to change public opinion. I mean, who knows?
NBC4 is reporting the armed man James Lee has been killed and all hostages freed unharmed. I (barely) drove by there at 2pm and nearly all of downtown Silver Spring was closed to vehicular traffic. Things are still a mess down there.
From his rant "There is no sense in advertising weapons of mass-destruction anymore."
It seems like if you are all about wiping out humans weapons of mass destruction is certainly what you seek.
It would sure be a lot faster than broadcasting Discovery channels shows on home sterilization (which he also wanted) which seem unlikely to find a huge uptake.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Gee, I dunno guys... I'm a big fan of the discovery channel. Maybe we should give it a shot.
I really hope that if one of my dooms day predictions is shown to be absolutely and completely wrong by a few hundred years worth of data, people still cite me like I contributed something to human knowledge. Whenever people cite Malthus, I have to really wonder if they realize that we talk about Malthus because the dude was wrong, NOT because he developed a new and working theory to predict the future. Food production kept up with population growth and has continued to consistently for hundreds of years. The only time people start to starve is when the politics of the area buggers it up. Humans kick ass at making food... seriously, we are not going to starve. We could turn around and feed a population five times the current one by simply using land for crops that we don't already use and going vegan... toss in a little technology to that magic and we could feed more.
Humans hate starving and we really put our minds to it to prevent it from happening. There are lots of things to worry about in the future. Food isn't one of them.
Repeat after me.
MALTHUS. WAS. WRONG. He was wrong when he made his prediction. He was wrong a few hundred years after his prediction failed to come true. He will continue to be wrong into the future. If humans start starving world wide, it will because an asteroid blocked out the sun, we had a nuclear war, or we unleashed a genetically engineered crop blight. It wont be because the population simply out stripped supply in food. Stop citing that dumb asshole like he made a worthy prediction.
http://www.savetheplanetprotest.com/
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The Discovery Channel MUST broadcast to the world their commitment to save the planet and to do the following IMMEDIATELY:
1. The Discovery Channel and it's affiliate channels MUST have daily television programs at prime time slots based on Daniel Quinn's "My Ishmael" pages 207-212 where solutions to save the planet would be done in the same way as the Industrial Revolution was done, by people building on each other's inventive ideas. Focus must be given on how people can live WITHOUT giving birth to more filthy human children since those new additions continue pollution and are pollution. A game show format contest would be in order. Perhaps also forums of leading scientists who understand and agree with the Malthus-Darwin science and the problem of human overpopulation. Do both. Do all until something WORKS and the natural world starts improving and human civilization building STOPS and is reversed! MAKE IT INTERESTING SO PEOPLE WATCH AND APPLY SOLUTIONS!!!!
2. All programs on Discovery Health-TLC must stop encouraging the birth of any more parasitic human infants and the false heroics behind those actions. In those programs' places, programs encouraging human sterilization and infertility must be pushed. All former pro-birth programs must now push in the direction of stopping human birth, not encouraging it.
3. All programs promoting War and the technology behind those must cease. There is no sense in advertising weapons of mass-destruction anymore. Instead, talk about ways to disassemble civilization and concentrate the message in finding SOLUTIONS to solving global military mechanized conflict. Again, solutions solutions instead of just repeating the same old wars with newer weapons. Also, keep out the fraudulent peace movements. They are liars and fakes and had no real intention of ending the wars. ALL OF THEM ARE FAKE! On one hand, they claim they want the wars to end, on the other, they are demanding the human population increase. World War II had 2 Billion humans and after that war, the people decided that tripling the population would assure peace. WTF??? STUPIDITY! MORE HUMANS EQUALS MORE WAR!
4. Civilization must be exposed for the filth it is. That, and all its disgusting religious-cultural roots and greed. Broadcast this message until the pollution in the planet is reversed and the human population goes down! This is your obligation. If you think it isn't, then get hell off the planet! Breathe Oil! It is the moral obligation of everyone living otherwise what good are they??
5. Immigration: Programs must be developed to find solutions to stopping ALL immigration pollution and the anchor baby filth that follows that. Find solutions to stopping it. Call for people in the world to develop solutions to stop it completely and p
"The police are trying to get the situation under control!INSANE!" read an email to ABCNews.
So, the employees are trapped inside the building with a lunatic with a gun, and with a bomb strapped to his chest; he has taken hostages, and the building is surrounded by SWAT teams. In the midst of this, these employees are sending email, and texting!
For some reason, this makes me very happy.
"Don't blame the log for the fire." --Andrew Ratshin
I wonder if he had ever heard - or was a follower - of the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement?
What sucks about this is this guy has got a point, but that's lost because his actions are plain nuts and will drown out most mainstream discussion. But the point is that we are at a point where we are deeply concerned with climate change and resources on this planet, and people think that it's not at all irresponsible to have 19 children, and then the media encourages it!
China may be run by dictatorial fuckwads, but they have a point with their laws on having children. The entire society can't sustain it's population now, so adding another billion hungry mouths over 20 years is just going to fuck things up even more. With the scientific information I've been seeing as of late with global warming, potable water, oil, etc, I can actually envision near future where first world countries start considering birth limits. I understand the personal liberties some people feel they have a right to, but there comes a time when your insistence on having more children affects me and my family. If just you, me, and your spouse left on the planet, and there is only enough food to feed 3 people, and you and your spouse go and have a child without asking me, someone is going to have to give up food. You just impinged on me and my ability to stay alive by having a child. This is not a matter of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, this is good old fashioned primitive instinct of I want to live.
This guy might be an insane fuckwad, but he has a point. We should not be glorifying having 19 children when every new child strains our resources. Sure, we need to have babies to keep the species alive, but without resources to sustain them, there will be a huge population crash.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
Washington has laws against such things.
Maybe they should have passed two or three more laws against them, so the guy wouldn't have done it.
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
Food supplies can grow given cheap energy. Fertilizer is almost all produced from fossil sources (LNG).
Party ends when cheap oil is over unless Fusion, mass solar, or magic picks up the slack. The first two take a decade to scale. ...I'm hoping for magic.
..don't panic
This is why radical atheism should be considered to be a religion. Blind faith in ANYTHING can bring irrationality. Yes, not collecting stamps is not a hobby, but avoiding touching a stamp could be considered to be a hobby.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Ummm. I guess your planet is doing fine, humanity's is not.
We already have a major overpopulation problem. Ask yourself when was the last time you saw a story about the planet running out of something says oil, or fish or clean water or... Daily? weekly?
Who do you thing is using up these things? Yep, the population.
We can't just put the large fish back in the oceans, they are going away and will be gone as the ravenous overpopulation needs to feed its face. Even without corrupt governments starving their people the people would still need to eat something as well as use other resources. Watch "End of the Line" to find out what all the hungry people have done to the oceans. Watch some documentaries on other things we are running out of. We have too many people, so having a channel glorify irresponsible reproduction is reprehensible.
If only people who can afford to take good care of kids had kids, we would not have this problem.
Speak for yourself.
Five, with the sixth on the way.
I suppose that would have pissed ol' Nutjob right off.
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
Bender? Is that you?
When I told him "violence solves everything and if its not working your simply not using enough", I didn't think he would take me seriously. Sorry guys.
As a race, we may be naturally predisposed to be religious -- a very unfortunate remnant of the evolutionary process that has brought us this far. As fun as it is to mock the christians (or whoever else believes in similar fairy-tales), we should never forget that some atheists can also bastardise science and turn it into a religion. Atheists can also be religious zealots, who blindly cling onto their beliefs, who unquestionably believe in old scientific texts like Darwin, and who are prepared to use force to impose their beliefs on others... which is totally ironic. Those people are probably psychologically damaged (or very stupid, or both), because that's EXACTLY what the scientific method and critical thinking are supposed to discourage.
If only I could erase the genes that create people like him, the world would be a much happier place...
what is his slashdot id?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
He wants them to avoid encouraging people to produce more 'disgusting human babies'
Well, if human women start giving birth to giraffes, let me know. Nice critters.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Ok, so we're running out of oil, we have other power sources, its just that either A) The people who don't want us to oil want to block those too or B) Because we aren't going to be running out of oil until sometime in the distant future, its still cheap enough for our needs.
Eventually, cheap, efficient solar cells will be able to provide a lot of power. Safe nuclear reactors will be able to provide a lot of other power. And wind and other energy sources will be able to provide the rest.
Fish can be farmed, just like any other animal. Yeah, so you might not be able to say that you are eating a 400 pound prized sport fish caught yesterday, but its very much possible to raise animals in captivity, just like humans have been doing with cattle, etc.
Clean water will also be solved through technology, and such. There isn't any water magically going out to Venus, we have a pretty much closed water cycle, the ocean is filled with water, if humanity -really- needed to we could simply build more desalination plants. Plus, if global warming happens the world would be filled with even -more- water in the water cycle.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
You and me baby ain't nothing but mammals,
let's do it like they do on the Discovery Channel
Why, they are practically cheerleaders for overpopulation! Not to mention that terrible documentary they did on roving gangs of bloodhounds...
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
I don't know whats worse, the fact that he's a nutso that took hostages or the fact that I just read his web site and actually partly agree with some of the things he said...
for the creator of the Georgia Guidestones! As a reminder, the Georgia Guidestones are a gigantic monument with several notable qualities, the most prominent being a multi-language warning against overpopulation, laws, nature, and national boundary disputes. The second most notable quality is that nobody knows who ordered the creation of this monument.
Given that you and your wife are having 6 or more children, I am curious of whether you ever considered overpopulation.
Do you think each of your children should also have 6 children?
What fraction of your resources do you expect your children and grandchildren to use.
What do you think the maximum occupancy of the earth is?
http://wondermark.com/162/
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
His manifesto reads like it was written by someone who's suffering the late stages of dis-associative identity disorder. Perhaps he's an MK ULTRA operative who's front alters are getting too close to exposing his true programming, triggering a cascading wave of suicidal/homicidal imprints to manifest and ensure he gets himself destroyed before any competent deprogrammer has a chance to untangle his fantasy and reality threads...
...is when you get EATEN.
They're like velociraptors that way.
Constant vigilance!
When I grow up, I want to have Christopher Walken hair.
Drown them in the bathtub, you dirty breeder.
The food supply is directly proportional to the size of Al Gore's ass.
Seems like he should have left out #3. Having a huge war may actually decrease the population faster than the birth control measures suggested.
He should read more SciFi. There's lots of material for decreasing human impact through massive wars that eliminate lots of people...
"Ok, so we're running out of oil"
No big deal there, considering how inefficient oil is in regards to the amount of pollution that is caused by it and the risk of oil spills such as the recent one.
"we have other power sources"
Yes, we do.
"A) The people who don't want us to oil want to block those too"
What? Are you saying that the people opposed to using oil are opposed to using clean, efficient, and renewable energy sources? Or something else? All of those things are highly important when choosing a new energy source.
"B) Because we aren't going to be running out of oil until sometime in the distant future, its still cheap enough for our needs."
Another problem introduced by worthless artificial currency and greed. How unsurprising.
"Eventually, cheap, efficient solar cells will be able to provide a lot of power. Safe nuclear reactors will be able to provide a lot of other power. And wind and other energy sources will be able to provide the rest."
Hopefully.
"Fish can be farmed, just like any other animal. Yeah, so you might not be able to say that you are eating a 400 pound prized sport fish caught yesterday, but its very much possible to raise animals in captivity, just like humans have been doing with cattle, etc."
Just because they can be doesn't mean they should. The lack of consideration for other species is simply astounding. We should reduce the population and consume things that don't suffer just as we do. For such a 'civil' and 'moral' species, we sure do seem pretty evil by killing things to satisfy our own taste buds. Survival? Fine. That's one thing. Even if it was a human who was eaten. However, most of the time these animals are killed not because there's a lack of plants to consume, but to satisfy the taste buds of humans.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
The manifesto wasn't 'released'
He self published it you fucking ASSHOLE FUCKTARD FUCK THIS ARTICLE FUCK FUCK FUCK Imma go blow slashdot up now.
http://www.savetheplanetprotest.com/
and just what is the reason for 'needing' so many kids?
I have to admit: I don't respect parents who become breeders like that. a kid or 2 is one thing; but the days of 'working the farm' are no more.
ego is also at play here: perhaps this guy 'needs' to have many copies of himself. perhaps he thinks this is the way to immortality.
I can't get inside the head of people who think that huge families, today, are appropriate.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Original Link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_discovery_channel_gunman
Adam Dolan, a sales director in Discovery's education division, said that when he got to the bottom floor he saw shattered glass near the company's daycare facility and suspected it was broken to get the children out. He later got an e-mail saying the children were safe and had been taken to a McDonald's.
That's nice - take the kids to McDonald's. Maybe next time, they will be too big to get through the emergency escape door
Amen.
I think this is a perfect example of Pope's dictum "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Malthus is notable in economics because the particular way in which he was wrong serves as a powerful example of failing to appreciate incentives.
It is, however, useful, in quickly exposing people as knowing just a little, but not enough, about economics.
If your bitterest enemies are people who hack the heads off civilians, then I would say you're doing something right.
Next on Mythbusters, we bust the myth that human beings are a plague upon the planet. Exhibit "A": Kari!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Are you Mormon, by chance?
EOM
more cowbell
Malthus immediately came to mind after hearing just a bit of this guy's manifesto on the news.
Have we stopped Malthus/proven him wrong, or have we just delayed the concepts?
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
'Cause I sadly agree with most of what he has to say. While I want to say that I don't agree at all with his methods, I can't because it seems those methods are the only ones anyone is paying attention to now. :/
Yeah, latest news report I saw said that the cops were still checking the building for explosives
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
"He's dead, Jim."
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
I can't get inside the head of people who think that huge families, today, are appropriate.
You must live in an urban, overcrowded, overpopulated, smoggy city.
Some people live on several acres, you know. Or even one acre. Some people actually grow some of their own food and could probably grow more, if they had to. Some people actually enjoy kids, having kids, raising kids... and in fact, find the most lasting fulfillment of their lives in raising kids.
Perspectives shift significantly when you live in "the country."
more war == less humans. It comes out equal in the end.
You're kidding, right? A modern war does not reduce the net world population except in the very short term. I challenge you to demonstrate otherwise. After the two bloodiest and most destructive wars in recent history, WWI and WWII, the population tripled within two generations, as pointed out by our illustrious manifesto writer du jour.
It's just so nice to see the authorities model their actions on those of a lunatic. He used a gun; so they used a gun. Now he's dead and they think they've done a good job. I guess he just wasn't American enough to be a member of the public the police are supposed to be there to protect.
Heck, I even teach my kids that violence is counter-productive, ineffective and morally wrong. Why can't some people just grow up and stop glorifying violence as an acceptable method of policing in a humane and progressive democracy.
The Washington Post article now has 533 comments. Why can't all sites just use Slashcode?
Because I want them. And they are sure happy to be here. As I am. A shout out to my parents for not being a pair of idiotic post modern fuckwads like seemingly so many of you out there. Fuck you. I dont give a flying fuck for all those people walking around thinking about how the world would be so much nicer if they were the only people in it. I could give two shits. Fuck them all. I'll have the kids they wont. Its called Children Credits (Patented)(TM). I'll raise the kids the lazy selfish fuckers rationalize and put themselves on pedestals for not having. They deserve their fate, let them all die old alone unloved and helpless. By their own philosophy their should all bury themselves alive six feet under and spare us all. Saving the planet? Fuck you, the planet gives less shit about you than I do.
The hipsters are taking up arms now.
Just because someone chooses to have 6 children doesn't mean that everyone will look at them and also choose to have same or more. So long as the overall birth rate is not an issue even despite the lack of regulation (which is presently the case in most First World countries), there's no point in tracking individual rates.
Good.
This guy was a nut, sure. Protect innocent civillians, ok. Kill him on the spot?
It's not the first time US 'Law Enforcement Officers' have killed someone on the street for a supposed crime. What happened to criminal jurisprudence?
Hes prob a mormon.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/01/maryland-police-respond-hostage-situation-man-gun-enters-building/
From the link above:
"At the trial, Lee reportedly said he began working to save the planet after being laid off from his job in San Diego. He said he was inspired by "Ishmael," a novel by environmentalist Daniel Quinn and by former Vice President Al Gore's documentary "An Inconvenient Truth.""
Since this proves Al Gore caused this crime, by the book he wrote he should be held accountable for this crime. Same as Bill O'Reilly and Ann Coulter was held responsible when George Tiller was killed by a crazy person who read books by Bill O'Reilly and Ann Coulter. At least in the Liberal Media, like the New York Times, and Slashdot.
Going vegan as a measure of land-use efficiency only makes sense in certain countries. In other countries, there is land that's able to be grazed but not farmed (extremely mountainous or hilly land, rocky land, arid or near-arid land, land that can only support plants that we can't or won't consume, etc). In those cases, the animals actually act to "convert" the non-arable land into foodstuffs, so are a net gain.
He used Frontpage.
there are nutcases for every subject and type, but this one is a really bizarre one
Keep in mind that some people have stated that they believe a population die-off will occur. If in addition, you believe there is considerable merit in your genes, family, or other inheritable characteristics surviving that die-off, then it is rational to have as many kids as you feasibly can, in order that more of your progeny survive the die-off.
At least his heart was in the right place... sadly wasted in actions that would alienate most people.
Particularly a bunch of smart-asses who need to over-assert their intelligence on slashdot.
Sometimes things are just as simple as they look.
There are two types of people concerned about over population: suicides and hypocrites. Given that you're still pounding away on your keyboard, we know which category you fall into.
While you're at it, please don't pull an Al Gore who breeded exponentially. As a libertarian liberal I generally despise the religious right -- but at least they have the good sense to throw their whore humping preachers under the bus -- the totalitarian left give 'em Nobel Peace Prize.
Yes. Most of them will say they aren't, but when you actually have any sort of practical project to harness those resources, they immediately move to block.
> They made Communism their religion.
So you're saying that atheists don't exist? Or are you trying to tell me that there are people whose set of beliefs is the empty set? Remember, that would imply that their set of beliefs could not contain things like "the scientific method produces reliable information", "sense data is reliable", and "I think, therefore I exist."
You and your anchor baby ain't no worse than mammals, so let's start by killing you at the Discovery Channel.
Speak for yourself. One day my plan to create human-tissue hybrids will succed and then I'll take over THE WOOOOORLD! MWAHAHAHAHA!
Well, either that ot I'll get a reality show on Discovery.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
I first heard about this story through a Canadian friend. I'm a born-Marylander attending school elsewhere in the States and tried tuning into some local (as in Maryland) news outlets for info. Nothing. I assumed the national media wouldn't have much and I was right. My third stop, however, was Twitter, and it was there I found information, including the gunman's suspected identity, links to his webpage(s) and MySpace account, and the fact that he had protested outside Discovery in the past all before the local news had even picked up the story.
Several hours later, I sat down after coming back from class and checked the local news outlets. They were just now broadcasting some of this information, saying things like "We believe that the suspect may have been tentatively identified..." and interviewing bus drivers and people walking to Chick-Fil-A (that's not hyperbole either; those were actual interviews they aired) before finally turning to videos from YouTube.
Say what you will about Twitter's uselessness for most purposes, but when it comes to breaking news, it can be incredibly informative. Obviously you have to sift through more misinformation, but the news outlets don't vet the info they get either. They originally stated one hostage before refusing to state a number, finally coming up hours later with 3, and contradicting their previous statements several times regarding the number of shots fired, if any shots WERE fired, the number of hostage-takers in the building, their motives, etc. If you have a working bullshit detector and are able to sift through information fairly well, Twitter is a very good source for these sorts of events.
is this just fucking funny. Taking hostage the discovery ? I had figured this was a parody when i first heard about it.
When hostages are taken, when people are killed, when terrorists use terror to spread their message, what is the ONE thing which never, ever happens?
Their demands and manifestos are NOT made public. Why? Because this encourages similar crimes. So something here is seriously off.
Mind control is quite real; Manchurian Candidate style mind programming works; we know this. You can make people, using hypnotism and drugs and personality splitting trauma, to do whatever you want them to do on auto-pilot. This stuff works, and it would therefore be naive to assume that it isn't used.
My guess is that this whole current example was deliberately put together so as to seed the public with the idea that the populace needs culling so that when the authorities take action to cull the population, (as it always intended to, via all those empty prison camps on U.S. soil), the public will be mired down in debate. It is of particularly convenient timing because Bill Gates' bullshit foundation for population reduction has been caught with creepy ties to Monsanto. (i.e., Population reduction through engineered food shortages.)
Heck, read the responses here; there are actually people on Slashdot who think that culling the population is a good idea. -Of course, nobody has explained to them that THEY will be included among the culled. (What? You think they only kill people in Africa? Your white, pasty arse is too good for the gas chamber? Ha. Think again. The economy is being sunk for a reason. Caucasians were useful for a time, used to invent the tools of technological/industrial domination, but the Chinese are the favored race because they are genetically better at knowing their place.)
People consistently fail to take into account when considering what is best for the human race that we are in the present position of over-population by design, and were put here exactly by the very ones who are now trying to program us to accept our own harvesting.
-FL
Who are you talking about? I've never seen anyone that objects to clean, efficient, and renewable energy sources.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
I'm sure he is in line for a DARWIN AWARD!!!
INVENT, DAMN YOU!!
Need more nukes.
Nuclear is far far cleaner than oil, and yet treehuggers block that all the time.
They dont want gradual improvement, they want instant perfection and will block anything that doesnt fit that - which ironically dooms us all to continue with dirty hydrocarbons for longer.
See: http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/msg/2846ca1b6bee64e1
on "The need for FOSS intelligence tools for sensemaking etc.".
I wrote most of that weeks ago, but was getting it ready to post coincidentally on seeing this slashdot article.
From there
Summary: This note is essentially about how civilians could benefit by have access to the sorts of "sensemaking" tools the intelligence community (as well as corporations) aspire to have, in order to design more joyful, secure, and healthy civilian communities (including through creating a more sustainable and resilient open manufacturing infrastructure for such communities). It outlines why the intelligence community should consider funding the creation of such FOSS "dual use" intelligence applications as a way to reduce global tensions through increased local prosperity, health, and with intrinsic mutual security. ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensemaking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-use_technology
http://www.bluezones.com/makeover-about
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brittle_Power
http://www.beyondintractability.org/audio/morton_deutsch/?nid=2430
How does one figure out what is right in such a manifesto and what may be
very wrong in a manifesto (or the actions that accompany it)?
"Social Movements and Strategic Nonviolence"
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/change/science_nonviolence....
Again, better sensemaking tools could help with that. :-) Both for making
sense and for educating people who use such tools.
For example, if that despairing and angry guy had known, through a global
sensemaking process, that we could make self-replicating space habitats with
room for quadrillions of humans, maybe he would not have said so much about
"human overpopulation" in his Discovery manifesto? The Earth may have
limits, but space is limitless as far as we know (although we may reach
limits, but they are 1000s of years away). He might have learned that the
major problem in the industrialized world is actually lack of population
growth, not a high birth rate:
"[p2p-research] Peak Population crisis (was Re: Japan's Demographic Crisis)"
http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/2009-A...
Likewise, he might have seen that the problem is not lack of solutions
(because they were nicely cataloged in such a tool, including some with
their SKDB apt-get instructions), but the problem was more in lack of broad
understanding of the solutions we do know about, and lack of the will to put
them into action more quickly or think them through systematically, in part
from economic dogma? And then, rather than threaten the Discovery Channel
with a bomb, he perhaps could have seen a non-violent way forward to improve
his local community through contributing to the gift economy, democratic
resource-based planning, lobbying for a basic income, and helping improve
local subsistence production in a stronger community?
Instead, lots of people went through a lot of stress and he is dead, and
some police officer has to live with having killed him, because of a failure
of effective sensemaking on his part, and, I might suggest, a lack of FOSS
public sensemaking tools that might have made the process easier for him.
And in the proc
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
Oh, no, not in the abstract, not usually, anyway. I have seen a few who claim that energy itself is the problem and we should learn to live without either fossil fuels or substitutes. But usually it's more like "Yay wind!" until someone proposes to build windmills, then it's "Dammit, you're killing birds and spoiling the view". Or "Yay Solar!" and then "But we'll need a 20 year environmental study on whether it's a good idea to reduce the albedo of the desert, and oh, watch for those threatened desert species". And forget about hydro (kills fish) or geothermal (kills geysers)...
Someone didn't snap like this a while ago.
between the tea baggers, Hannity, Rush, Beck, Fox News, spineless Democrats, and on and on and on...
The major difference between the right and the left is that this kind of action is not expected from the people on the left.
Clearly Al Gores hate speech has gone too far. We need these sorts of videos banned, or at least labeled. Not even the columbine kids wanted to sterilize people!
OMG you're a disgusting person. Your words are unfathomable horrors from the bowels of hell. The fact that you have an Internet connection up in your ivory tower of privilege is a powerful argument against the existence of a benevolent deity.
This must be what it's like to read Rand. Lovecraft has nothing on this. I'm going to sit under a hot shower and cry for a while now.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Describing the only known sentient beings as filth is insanity.
He also suggests exactly opposite actions to problems of human population, if you can call it a problem.
It is quite clear, when people are well fed, and have medical care and civilization, they DO almost stop breeding.
It is only when greed, violence, lack of education and poverty and hunger come along you see families with 10 babies and slash and burning of forests.
-Hack
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
In Malthus' day there were only a billion humans. By happenstance, today there are almost exactly a billion undernourished humans out of our teeming 6 billion according to the WHO. It seems unlikely that we'll get to 36 billion souls 200 years from now, but if we do it seems nearly certain that there will be as many starving then as are alive today at least.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
... an environmentalist who practiced what he preached.
A Turk living in Germany is a German in the same way that a Dane living in Greenland is an Eskimo.
You, my friend, have committed the egregious fallacy of equivocation. You see - Germany is a sovereign nation *and* a race, but eskimo is just a race.
Then again, you could have merely been engaging in boring back-handed racist hatred. Germany doesn't have the patent on burning jews, but it is relevant because history has shown what untrammelled nationalism and racism begets.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
A Turk living in Germany is a German in the same way that a Dane living in Greenland is an Eskimo.
You, my friend, have committed the egregious fallacy of equivocation. You see - Germany is a sovereign nation *and* a race, but eskimo is just a race.
Then again, you could have merely been engaging in boring back-handed racists hatred. Germany doesn't have the patent on burning jews, but it is relevant because history has shown what untrammelled nationalism and racism begets.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
The answer is to raise standard of living. Turns out that as standard of living goes up, population growth goes down. However you may discover that to do that in the developing world may require some carbon based fuels to be burned. I'm not saying other technology can't or won't be worked on but right now you need things like diesel water pumps.
The key to stabilizing world growth really does seem to be to bring everyone up to a reasonable standard of living. That doesn't mean the same as the US or anything, but something where basic needs are met, where you can live a full life and not die of a disease, and where you have a reasonable chance of your children surviving in the same fashion.
Rather than trying to be assholes and say "Fuck it stop feeding the starving people," we could realize that the people who are working to feed everyone are actually the ones working to solve the problem. Get everyone food, water, shelter, basic medicine, education and contraception and you will find the birth rate stabilize rapidly.
I think too many people think that religious beliefs are only such if the follow a church that calls itself such. Not really. The complete zeal in your beliefs, the blind faith, the hatred and demonization of those who think different, the refusal to compromise, those can apply to things other than a deity. People can worship other things they can, in every real sense, be religious fanatics about things other than gods. Fanatics come in many forms. There have long been extreme eco freaks for whom environmentalism is their religion. They have a set of beliefs about the environment and world that they are unwavering on, and they are willing to go to extreme means to try and force those on others.
Just because you don't belong to a formal church or believe in a god, doesn't mean you can't be a religious zealot. It is the unwavering dedication to a set of dogma and the mindset that everyone must believe as you do that makes you one.
You're just a simpleton. Your baseless optimism, rooted in ignorance, is at once both entertaining and depressing.
The only moment in recent history when the food production jumped ahead, giving the human race several more decades to catch up, was when Fritz Haber discovered how to make ammonia from hydrogen and nitrogen harvested from the air. Without the synthetic fertilizers, which boosted depleted soils and opened formerly sterile areas to agriculture, the collapse would have happened at the 2 billion people mark already.
Malthus lived in a time when Europe's people were suffering from endemic malnutrition (accounting for the stunted development of 17th to 19th century europeans). Yes, cheap sea shipping and refrigeration allowed remote and fertile areas (Argentina, US etc) to bring in cheaply produced food but the benefits were already wearing off at the WW1 outset. Then came the synthetic fertilizers, but today their boosting effect reached a ceiling and their overuse downsides start becoming more and more disruptive.
Instead of writing about subjects on which you're utterly ignorant, you should invest some time into reading more.
Re-unite Gondwanaland! Stop continental drift!
And free the Mallocs!
Have gnu, will travel.
> > I can't get inside the head of people who think that huge families, today, are appropriate.
>
> You must live in an urban, overcrowded, overpopulated, smoggy city.
Do you understand how "the country" turns into a "urban, overcrowded, overpopulated, smoggy city"?
Many cities in California, for instance went from acres of farmland to all 1/4 acre lots in a few decades.
If you have more than two children, then any fulfillment you are getting from that raising children on many acres will be a shrinking dream for your children and grandchildren.
Have you every talked to anyone in the Tea Party? How you tried to see their point of view, consider what they want, what they stand for, where they are right, where they are wrong? Or do you simply deride them all as "Tea Baggers"? Do you equate them all with the extreme members who get the most face time?
Funny thing is if you look at the Tea Party you'll discover that like most human groups, it is not homogeneous. Some people simply believe in less government interference and think this is the best chance they have at that. Others may be misinformed on some things but generally nice people who are trying to do what they believe is right, even if it is base don bad information. Still others may be complete not-ball shithead wackos.
If you lump them all together and pretend that they are all a bunch of extremists then you are doing just what the GP is talking about. You are defining a whole group by the extremist elements.
If you are willing to do some introspection you can take this self test: Do you find that pretty much everyone you know that disagrees with your deeply held views is crazy? Do you find that most people who agree with your deeply held views are on the level, at least in most things? If so, what is happening is your views are colouring your perception of reality.
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/mentalIllness.shtml
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/treatment.shtml
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
Christ all mighty, this Neo-Con bullshit again.
"Oh noes, teh evil immigrants are going to kill our nation and history, blah, blah, ADDED FOR EXTRA SCAREMONGERING!1!one1!"
I call BS.
I live in Australia and over the last 50 years we've had so many new groups integrate it's not funny. The local racist organisation will tell you that the Africans have come to destroy the Australian way of life. Maybe but 10 years ago that same racist organisation said the same thing about the Indians (so how are the Africans going to succeed where the Indians failed). When I was a wee tacker (20 years ago) they used to tell me how the Asians were going to steal all the Jerbs and there would be none for me (yep, saw how that one turned out). When my dad was my age the same thing was said about the Wogs (Greeks and Italians), the Irish before them, going back to when captain Cook first settled onto Botany bay there were these same scaremongers spouting the same bullshit and to be quite frank, I'm sick of it.
So with a Greek Kebab (souvlaki), Kwai Teow, Indian Curry, Meat Pie and Cold Beer I call BS. Immigration has done nothing but help this nation and I can say with absolute certainty that introducing and integrating new groups has not destroyed the things that made Australia great.
So kindly sod off with this nonsense.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Don't tell me you seriously believe that the world would be better off with a decreasing population.
I know it sounds provocative, but its true: the most materially successful generation of Americans was the one which had the most kids.
And I'm not a part of it. Right now, the US is facing - and has been facing, for the past ten years - the single greatest depression since the Great Depression. The Baby Boomers had a lot of kids. My father's generation didn't. My generation didn't. So guess what?!
There's nobody left to buy houses, cellphones, computers, cars, etc...
I've seen the housing market crash. I've seen the largest American carmaker bought by the government. The company that invented the cellphone - Motorola - lays off people at the drop of a hat. Why? Because between the 40 million+ abortions and the reduction in fertility rate, the children necessary to support the ever-expanding economy were never born.
Granted, it's not the end of the world. However, every time I hear someone complaining about having too many mouths to feed, I'm reminded of the law of supply and demand; it is exactly the kind of problem every farmer dreams of having. The problem nowadays isn't that there's too many mouths to feed, but rather, so few that a farmer - you know, someone who actually produces something for a living, by the sweat of his brow - can no longer make a living. We don't need fewer mouths to feed, but more.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
but crazy or not, a man died.
Thanks for reminding me of the Idiocracy movie.
You should write down your insightful so your children and grand children may learn from your example.
This is not directed at the Parent but to all who have expressed such views (and there are a few of you in this thread).
This guy is a complete nutbar, having read his manifesto it reads like something that comes out of a mad dictator rather then a rational plan for change (Forcing the TV stations to show a program based on a specific philosophy, no immigrants, filthy babies and so forth). None of his points are valid because they are all tied into ridiculous extremist philosophies.
Now I'm normally the first to blame America's gun culture or to call out the police for excessive violence but I can do neither here. This guy was a nut, no culture could have prevented him from doing insane things and the police acted rationally and expediently in this situation. 9 out of 10 hostage situations that the police deal with are crimes of opportunity (bank robbery, botched escape) and hostages are taken in the heat of the moment as a means of escape, this is why police use more negotiators then snipers. But this case is the rare 1 in 10 where a negotiator is useless and the hostage taker needed to be removed with as few civilian casualties as possible. As far as I'm concerned, this was resolved in the best possible way with 0 civilian casualties.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/change/science_nonviolence.html
"Studies of social movements in the United States also show that the necessary social disruption has to be created through the principled use of strategic nonviolence. Any form of violence, whether property damage or physical battles with opponents and police, will turn off the great majority of Americans and bring down overwhelming police and military repression."
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
That's all.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Now we see that environmentalism is a form of mental illness, and environmentalists in general are murderous nut-jobs ;-P
We'll continue to provide this forum for your doomsday predictions.
BTW: I'm sure you bought oil futures because you know that peak oil is real. How could anyone take your knowledge of the future seriously otherwise?
he was shot!
I DEMAND 4x24 HOUR PRO-GREEN TELEVISION SHOWS IN ONE 24-HOUR DAY!!!
asdasdffdfdfasdfsdf asdf sadf asdf df sf sf saf sa sdf (to throw off the caps filter issue)
> Pol Pot for a start.
Pol Pot recreated himself as a deity and persecuted all that didn't follow his religion.
Here's the thing about 'gods': many were real people who were deified (the rest were entirely imaginary).
Rastas is the god of the Rastafarians, he was Ras Tafari (later Haile Selassie) was a real person. (did I mention that my grandfather was presented a lion skin cape by Ras Tafari in 1922 in Aden?).
Hirohito was a Shinto god until the allies made him stop.
Alexander the Great was considered a god by some of the subjects he conquered.
Caesars became gods when they died.
It seems quite likely that many of the gods of ancient Greece, of Hindu, of many others, were actually real people who became mythologised (including the god of the jews).
Pol Pot was just another.
I wish they'd shot him in the head with a high-powered rifle and shattered his head like a pumpkin dropped off of a skyscraper. Thanks for giving us this nut, Manbearpig. You should stick to nutting on Portland masseuses. And you /.ers should stick to fapping furiously over Justin Beiber Youtube videos.
Oh dear. Sir, you scare me. Not because I think you're right, but because I think you're a fruitcake.
[FUCK BETA]
Gonna go a little out of order here.
...communists need to have a look at their ideology and ask themselves why every time communists get sweeping powers they do such unpleasant things.
Correlation is not causation.
Hitler and Mussolini did unpleasant things in the name of National Socialism. The Japanese emperor did unpleasant things in the name of his glorious empire. The dictators of 20th century South and Central America did unpleasant things in the name of capitalism. The Iranian and Saudi governments do unpleasant things in the name of Islam. Then Chinese (now) do their unpleasant business in the name of harmony and social order.
Sociopaths say and do whatever the fuck it takes to gain and keep power, which tends to be whatever will get the locals of that place and time are likely to go along with. Communism was a convenient way to whip up the terribly oppressed masses of what were then near-feudal societies. It might as well have been a new religion - Stalin would still have been scheming his way to the top, in a funny hat if necessary.
Don't mistake my argument - I'm not supporting communism here. But it also annoys me that someone can make a shallow statement like that as if it were a full explanation of the history, especially as I never want to see that particular bit of history repeated.
They killed people because they were radical communists...
No. They killed people because they were sociopaths with unchecked power. Go read history and you'll find everything they did done by others for a hundred other gods, fatherlands, and miscellaneous causes.
Stalin had Lenin killed to get power. He spent the rest of his life purging random people in the party in order to eliminate or control those that knew where all the bodies were buried. Saddam Hussein's reign was much the same. Oh, and Hitler's. And let's not forget the old Czar's secret police or how folks ended up in the Bastille. As has been the reign of many, many, others like them.
Stalin got a bunch of Russians killed in WWII. Like the Czar (and, well, pretty much everyone) did in WWI. Like countless idiot leaders have all throughout history. No common ideology, just idiocy and the threat of unspeakable violence against anyone that would dare correct it.
Stalin purged religious folks, made their lives miserable, wrecked their shit, sent them off to camps. So did Hitler. And some of the Ottoman rulers. And the Romans at times. And, if the bible is to be believed, even the ancient Hebrews on their way into the "promised land". And many many others. Ideology isn't the common thread here; it's tyrants that want to eliminate groups that might band together to oppose them (and taking all their stuff must be a nice bonus, too).
Stalin fucked up the economy and millions starved to death. While the scale and speed of Stalin's famines is impressive, government mismanagement causing economic suffering is hardly unique. People in parts of Africa starve and die of preventable diseases every day because the warlords horde everything. People die for similar reasons in some of India's more badly managed rural areas. I know people in the former USSR who tell me of friends, family members, and neighbors that got sick and died because they couldn't afford to heat their homes after the collapse of communism, or because they were malnourished, or because what medical infrastructure there was completely collapsed and the nearest doctor was a day's drive away. Is that an indictment against capitalism, or is it just corruption, cronyism, and high-level idiocy? Rulers have been starving the masses to death, wondering why they don't just eat cake instead, since ancient times, regardless of gods or ideals.
So no, Stalin didn't kill because he was a communist. He killed because that was his path to power and because he was an idiot who'd kill anyone that tried to help him past his own idiocy. He kept killing because people
People in the USA use so many resources and have such a high standard of living that the world can not sustain it forever. Long ago I read a paper where the conclusion was that if you gave everybody EU standards of living (surely lower than USA back then) the planet and economy could only sustain less than 2 billion people.
In terms of resources, I would put the USA at 4x the EU per person - so that is a lot less people. The USA doesn't have the resources to sustain its current population. Now if standards of living came down a lot... then it would be possible.
Now economically, the USA can't sustain itself and hasn't been able to do so arguably since the manifest destiny period! I'm not merely basing this position on the decades of severe trade deficits... although that is enough of a problem in itself.
If you want to talk about starving to death, then naturally things could get really bad before levels get that high-- but that would be ignoring the fact millions worldwide ARE starving to death many times as a result of inequitable trade policies that favor the rich nations. The real world will NOT model the simple biological simulations - or even that of actual animal populations because human behavior is a big factor in how such things play out.
One could limit the population to meaningful jobs in which case it would probably never hit a billion. Consumerism is promoted because its important to the function of this over populated system to find work for people...
Like how George Jetson's job is to press the ON button on the computer and keep the boss feeling important while the computers do ALL the real work...
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
... wait, Discovery? Where Kari Byron works? KILLLLLLLLLLL HIIIIIIMMMMMMMM!
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
I can no longer sit back and allow TLC infiltration, TLC indoctrination, TLC subversion and the international TLC conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
People have raised families in this fashion for centuries, and it worked out just fine, arguably a lot better than for example sticking kids into a creche or kindergarten or some such official institution. At least I know I'd rather have grown up in an outsized family.
'Effects of neglect' indeed - how do you know? Or is it just bad because that's not what *you* think is normal?
When I was 4-5 years old, my parents trusted me enough to leave me alone at home when they went to work, because I hated fucking kindergarten (didn't see why the adults in kindergarten could order me around). I'm sure idiots like you have already made this illegal in places like the US, and all I can say is when I have kids (soon), I'll just have to move to a country that leaves parenting to the parents.
more war == less humans. It comes out equal in the end.
You're kidding, right? A modern war does not reduce the net world population except in the very short term. I challenge you to demonstrate otherwise. After the two bloodiest and most destructive wars in recent history, WWI and WWII, the population tripled within two generations, as pointed out by our illustrious manifesto writer du jour.
thanks . very nice
www.bilisimforum.org
The only way to prevent over population (and to stop the future people from coming back to "tuuuk ur jubs") is if we all become Gay. Where does Malthus-Darwin stand on this?
This has to be a contender for the Darwin Award.
Maybe so, but back then the earth wasn't quite as over-populated, right? Some of those kids would likely die, right? They didn't need assloads of cheaply manufactured, yet expensive shit, right?
According to my extremely uninformed calculations, bringing up one kid in a wealthy country automaticly fucks atleast three other third-world babies in their proverbial colons (meaning they'll be making clothes, food, electronics etc. for a salary that you can indirectly afford).
Also, if every couple has more than two babies, and all of them lead healthy lives, the eventual overpopulation is un-a-fucking-voidable by very simple math. How hard is this for people to understand!? Reproducing is not a god-damned right. Well it might be a right, but that doesn't make it ethically or morally correct.
I'd very much like to have babies one day, but I don't feel I really have the right to, given the current state of mankind. Why am I the only one ready to keep my boys in my balls?
and in other news, the new and improved trailer for Machete now includes footage from the scene at Discovery Channel HQ
Boom Headshot !
In principle, I don't object to people having children, but I really hope I don't ever have to live in a society where the majority of the population receives its early indoctrination from someone with attitudes like yours.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
His Darwin Award is on the way.
Too bad he didn't shoot those faggots from Mythbusters.
Ok, ......what did Discovery do THIS time???
Was his name Josh? Sounds like another nutbag I know.
Ok. So if we take it to the extreme - when every continent has people standing asshole to bellybutton from shore to shore and border to border, and there is NO PLACE on which to grow food. THEN are people going to starve? Or is there absolutely no limit on how high population can go? Ok, how about asshole to bellybutton ALL OVER the planet, including over water (if we're packed in so tightly, we won't sink into the oceans and seas). I'm sorry, at some point, growth just cannot any longer be sustained.
Oh dear. Sir, you scare me. Not because I think you're right, but because I think you're a fruitcake.
That you felt compelled to pipe up and voice your rejection suggests something about your fundamental nature. And no, it's probably not what you'd like to think.
Sorry.
-FL
>and just what is the reason for 'needing' so many kids?
Just a few generations ago, infant mortality was in the double digits, and the normal family business was farming.
Cultural idioms move faster than culture itself.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Now you tell me! I only had two kids, both in their twenties, and neither one seems too anxious to make me a grandpa. And I'm too old to be a sperm donor (and here I thought age discrimination was illegal...).
Free Martian Whores!
It's pretty pervasive.
How many times have you been in some planning or brainstorming session, and come from that with the idea that now the 'group' is going to move forward with 'the plan'?
And how many times is it usually the case that once 'the plan' has been decided upon,
then everyone is supposed to 'buy' into it and support it 100%, as "part of the team"
(woe be unto those are are marked 'not a team player').
It's a real pain being the only dissenting voice after some vocal majority claims to
have 'consensus'.
Even recently, after a recent vote on bakabt regarding whether or not people watched English-dubbed Anime. Some took the fact that only 1/3rd of the responders said they sometimes watched them, as some lame mandate that the majority has spoken therefore, no more dubbed Anime would be accepted: only original language and 'subbed', because the democracy ruled, and that's the way all should go.
If ever I needed reminding of how democracies can easily be another form of tyranny, that would be a prime example in it's theater. Almost always, Americans (maybe elsewhere, too) see dissent as a 'negative' thing and consequently, see dissenters negatively. They don't understand that their freedom of thought is being protected by the dissent even as the dissent maybe be challenging their thoughts and opinions.
So often it's expected that we all 'stop thinking' while we go along with the majority -- even in a free society. This is pressure to just 'go along with the
majority' is far more insidious and dangerous, IMO, than the comparatively farcical examples when extremists make their demands.
-l
I've noted this in almost all media. If a person has a middle eastern sounding name, you have terrorist all over the article, but when a non-middle eastern sounding name tries or threatens to harm people 'using explosive devices, and/or biological weapons' (excerpted from the definition of 'terrorist') then he's just a guy with a bomb. This person is/was a terrorist by definition and the media should express that here.
how sad they had to shoot him, he could have been our next president
Europe isn't defined in terms of race, but in terms of politics and geography. The statement you attempt to dispute discusses Europe, a geopolitical entity, and Europeans, the inhabitants of Europe, not Caucasians nor white men. The assertion that Europeans will become extinct is a value-neutral fact (though not necessarily a true fact) about the population of a geographically defined region, which follows simply from the assumption of constant, negative population growth. Fortunately, the truth of short logical statements is unaffected by any amount of political agendas, straw men and unrelated anecdotes.
It is telling that, instead of responding to the contents of the post in question, you invented a completely unrelated opinion and then spent the majority of your post attacking your own opinion. I'm glad that you realize that your straw-man position is nonsense. Was your exhortation to kindly sod off also part of a dialogue with yourself?
I share your sentiment about racism, but passion is no substitute for thinking carefully and acting accordingly. Unquestioned opinions and careless, misguided policies may cause more harm than benefit to your endeavors against racist sentiments and unequal treatment.
The following links may prove useful introductions to several of the preceding concepts.
Europe
Population growth
Anecdotal evidence (Generally, your life story is not relevant unless it is the topic of discussion.)
Straw man argument
Critical thinking
Use of the words "good", "bad" or "evil" is almost invariably the result of oversimplification.
I still don't know who you're talking about. I'm someone who cares about the environment (rightfully so), and the only reason I'd object to something such as that would be if it caused more harm than good. Those don't, and they are surely improvements over oil.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
"yet treehuggers block that all the time."
If by "treehugger" you mean "those that actually care about the environment," then I don't know what you're talking about. I certainly care about the environment, and I welcome any improvement over oil. Unless the people you're talking about are opposed to technology, of course.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
I got up this morning and the wife had TLC on... and I was amazed at how many of these "Gazillion-baby family" shows were in the line-up! One was on, and lots more were coming up.
Was it always like this? Or did they ramp it up in response to this guy?
No wonder he went ballistic!
He did sort of get his wish when the police reduced the Earth's human population by 1.
Sort of sad really. He sounds crazy, but he made a good point about overpopulation and the inaction around the issue.
Not the best way to approach it, though likely frustrated, and well crazy.
Start by looking at the environmental resource usage numbers and how many earths we need to keep it up at the current pace - not the perpetual growth our economy is based upon and have been selling that whole religion to most the world as well.
The USA consumes and it does not produce much; I suggest you look at the trade deficit problem.
I've read plenty over the years where EU people use less resources. "Quality of life" is highly subjective, I don't think you are interpreting it the way I do - I see it from the view of the people I know here in the midwest USA; personally, I differ greatly on what I'd consider quality of life from my neighbors. My brother thinks the EU sucks in part because they can't drive fast massive gas hog monster trucks with cheap gas like he does here. If transit is part of the equation there is a big difference...
Just because you lived in 1 place in the EU and your life didn't change doesn't say a whole lot. If you are some geek on the computer in an apartment and cubical all the time it wouldn't probably matter where you lived.
Quality of life is relative plus even by your measurement it may not apply to other income groups, social groups, locations(mass transit?) etc.
I object to the largest GDP comment. I'd like proof of that one; even then I'm not sure I like GDP as a measurement anyhow. The largest economy has been the EU for years now and China is close to second place-- its so close some minor tweaks to the meter changes the rankings. Currency levels skew this stuff as well, since China is probably #1 but their output is measured by relative monetary value - they are not... if you measure internally and remove the exchange rates China is probably near 1st place and the USA is probably not even 3rd (due to trade deficit.)
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