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The Black Underbelly of Windows 8.1 'Blue'
snydeq writes "Changes in Microsoft's forthcoming upgrade to Windows 8 reveal the dark underbelly of Microsoft's evolving agenda, one that finds pieces of Windows 8 inexplicably disappearing and a new feature that allows Microsoft to track your local searches cropping up, InfoWorld's Woody Leonhard reports. 'As Windows 8.1 Milestone Preview testers push and prod their way into the dark corners of Windows 8.1 "Blue," they're finding a bunch of things that go bump in the night. From new and likely unwelcome features, to nudges into the Microsoft data tracking sphere, to entire lopped-off pieces of Windows 8, it looks like Microsoft is changing Windows to further its own agenda.'"
A lot of the stuff the article gripes about are what Google has been doing for ages with Android: requiring a Microsoft account, funneling users to their services first, tracking your system usage, etc.
Microsoft has every incentive to do this, and no disincentive.
Seriously, how many people are going to switch to Linux over this? Nobody.
Get used to it.
A lot of the stuff the article gripes about are what Google has been doing for ages with Android:
That doesn't make me feel better......
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Only that nobody want to use Bing or Hotmail. They both suck.
This is normal MS behaviour, every time they look slightly better, things like this remind me that they are MS and they cannot be trusted.
The only reason Windows gained market share in the 90s was because it went out of its way to not be a closed system. It's always sucked, it's just a matter of how little but that we still had control over our PCs than IBM and later Apple wanted us to have.
If Microsoft goes this route and enforces controls and advertising ala Google/Android styl Android will gain the lead as a desktop OS.
In short, the more Ballmer tightens his fist, the more users will slip through his fingers.
Ya, but at least you aren't paying extra for the privilege of being tracked like you do with a microsoft product. Its a trade off for 'free' services in google-land.. In the microsoft world you pay thru the nose AND get tracked.
Google is more upfront about it too.
( that said, neither is right.. but one is less bad about it )
Your're doing it wrong? Switching to Bing or Yahoo on my Nexus 10 works as expected for me.
Also, Android doesn't require a Google account - you're asked for one on initial startup, but there's a Skip button that bypasses it. If you go further, change a few key settings (such as search provider) and perhaps sideload one of the many non-Google app stores, your Android device can be used without Google ever seeing it.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
Unless they've already changed something since the first preview release, all you have to do is enter any old email address and password, MS account-linked or no. It'll fail, and then ask if you want to create a local account.
"Clever workaround"....*eyeroll*.
Yes, Blue Man Group should be deeply offended that Microsoft has used their skin color in this manner.
Metro/Windows Store ----> Apple
All the known and lesser known attempts to monetize search ----> Google
The big difference about the search revenue is that at least Google 'gives' you the software for 'free' before raping your privacy.
Microsoft will be charging you to rape your privacy.
Even so, I've found Windows local search to be more trouble than it's worth anyway. the "perpetual green bar" kept getting in my way, so I just disabled Windows Search entirely. On the sad side, I can't use instant search in Outlook anymore. On the bright side, I replaced it with Everything. It legitimately searches everything, and does so instantly. I'd prefer doing that in Windows 8.1. If for no other reason, I haven't the foggiest idea why someone would want to simultaneously search the internet and a local drive for the same search string. They're foundationally different - internet search is for "stuff you don't have", and local search is for "stuff you have, but don't know where". I can't ever once think of a time I've wanted to search both at a time.
Serato really, REALLY needs to port itself to Linux.
So what if it is doing "what Google's Android has been doing for years"? I'm not using "Google Android" on my desktop, am I?
I don't pay $$ for Google. If Microsoft wants to make its products free, then OK, but until then this is abusive. They are trying to eat their cake and have it, too.
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
Who would you rather have spying on you, a company whose mission is to 'not be evil' or a company whose attitude is 'bend over and take it!"
Since they say that they will be showing advertisements on the desktop, does that mean that they will get rid of the Windows Home/Pro/Expert editions and just have a single Windows 8.1 which is free to download and install?
No sig. Move along - nothing to see here.
"funneling users to their services first, "
Yeah that'll work well with anti trust issue in EU.
"tracking your system usage"
Yeah that'll work well with data protection issues in EU.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Apple does the same thing as Google, why the outrage when Microsoft is last to implement it?
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
about if we added "to grease white fat-cat honky palms" to it, would that make you feel better?
You have been trolled. Do you really think GP meant it? He knew that any mention of the word "racist" makes the nerds scream with fury and start frothing at the mouth, without stopping to think. Evidently it worked on you.
You are an idiot.
sounds like an NSA 'feature'
So is Linux off the table for some reason? I've had that on the desktop for years, and I'm no *nix guru.
"funneling users to their services first, " Yeah that'll work well with anti trust issue in EU. "tracking your system usage" Yeah that'll work well with data protection issues in EU.
As long as they share data with the local government's spying organization everything will be fine.
Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
You don't need to have any kind of Google account or any link to Google at all to use android. There are plenty of services that are only available if you do, but people who choose to can use android devices without connecting them to Google in any way at all. There are even some devices that you have to go out of your way to get them to connect to Google.
... I won't stop using Windows, but I will not let Windows online.
The thing is: I expect these shinanagins from Android, so I modify my usage habits accordingly. That is harder to do on a general purpose computer, so I don't want it leaking information about my usage habits like a sieve. So I'll just rip out the ethernet cable and grab files from my Mac or Linux box to use under Windows, and cart them over via sneakernet.
Stop using Windows though, that's a somewhat harder case to make.
When did they not do that?
Don't forget that H-1Bs also work overtime for free.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
But the last time I did a local search on my PC's C:\ drive and didn't have ads all up in my shit, it just felt like something was missing.
I'm just glad Microsoft was listening.
That the same EU that didn't raise much more than a "tsk, tsk... please stop, would you?" when they heard about the NSA spying on their citizens?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I wanted a computer, not a registration of an account in one more "social" scheme.
I mean why I must register a Microsoft account to use a computer? I remember as we were told that it is "impossible to separate a browser from an OS".
Now it seems it becomes impossible to separate an OS and social network.
Google = Do No Harm.
Microsoft = Do Harm.
From what I've seen, the difference between the two is Google is better at PR.
#DeleteChrome
When one 15 shout cuts office it should be in a folder or slide out menu
even Google earth has 4 shortcuts in it's start menu folder
Is Google really doing this? I have an android phone and I do have an account, but it's not a Google account, it's my phone service provider's account. As far as I can tell I can download as many free apps as I want without any Google account (I have one though, just not attached to the phone). However with Windows 8 I can not download any free apps without a Microsoft account, in fact I can not even use some of their built in apps without an account! (ie, Mail requires one, even if Microsoft is not your mail provider)
On the other hand, because it's a phone, and a phone must have an account or at least a phone number, this is not as pernicious on a phone. If it was a tablet however then this is more intrusive I would think. On a PC though it's absolutely ridiculous to have account requirements and this is where it is patently obvious that there are ulterior motives behind this and it's not at all about user convenience.
Is there a practical way to turn this crap off and still have a functioning OS?
Some company changes its own product to further their company goals.
See sharing as long as they can hide it is one thing, but sharing while obviously going agaisnt the law publicly won't work, as the variosu EU governement can't pressure court with secret warrant stuff as easily in EU in various country as it is in the US.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
No, seriously, what could they do ? Have a stern look ? Show the birdy to the US ? loudly whine ? There is nothing on the law or international court they could do.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Until it's an OS on par with Windows and OS X, there will be no mass migration to it.
Since Window 8 is now a tablet OS, Microsoft have already made Android an OS on par with Window.
And if you're going to have to run a tablet OS on your desktop, you might as well pick the one that's much more popular.
I recognize those as english words, I just don't get why they are assembled near to each other and in that order.
I thought Bing was just scraping Google results?
Nihil in publicum sputa.
I seem to recall something very similar happening with Ubuntu last year with Ubuntu 12.10. Canonical received all sorts of flack for it, and rightly so. But at least with Ubuntu, you can at least disable that "feature" without much effort.
Makes me wonder if Microsoft is going to get a free pass because, well, Microsoft.
with all the entitlement driven political correctness 'concern trolling' going on these days? It's honestly hard to tell. I'll bet there's a growing group of people out there who'd say something like this in all seriousness.
For what? You can freely skip the part where it asks for one, and ignore or hide any Google services. Always been possible.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
no you dont, I have a htc sensation running happily *without* a google (gmail) account
In addition to a lot of other misfeatures like shoving Microsoft Accounts down your throat, Microsoft actually went out of their way with Windows RT 8.1 to lock out the jailbreak that allows you to run non-Metro applications on Windows RT 8.0. Windows RT is basically just Windows 8 ported to ARM, desktop and all, but Microsoft made Windows RT unable to run any non-Microsoft program in the desktop -- all third-party applications *must* be Metro applications on the Windows Store. I really think that Windows RT is Microsoft's testbed for what they envision as the future of all of Windows, both desktop and tablet.
The jailbreak made Windows RT able to run unsigned applications on the desktop. Some open-source applications have now been ported to the jailbroken Windows RT environment. That's pretty much all the jailbreak allowed you to do -- run some desktop-mode open-source programs on Windows RT. The jailbreak doesn't seem to facilitate Windows Store application piracy at all -- at least, I haven't heard of such hacks.
And yet, Microsoft went well out of their way to block it. They revoked the certificate used to sign all RT 8.0 applications. They changed the debugger policy on RT to not allow WriteProcessMemory. They rewrote considerable portions of the Windows RT-specific lockdown DLL, wldp.dll. They marked csrss.exe as a DRM-related "protected process", even though it has nothing to do with DRM. This latter change applies to x86 as well, even though the change was clearly designed to target the method by which the Windows RT 8.0 jailbreak worked.
I'm working on a new jailbreak for RT 8.1. I already have code executing in kernel mode in RT 8.1, so it's just a matter of putting everything together. I'm going to wait until the 8.1 final release before releasing the jailbreak, though, to make things more complicated for Microsoft to fix.
"Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
it looks like Microsoft is changing Windows to further its own agenda
I think that is the whole idea.
Whereas I come here to read the rants of people who never seemed to learn that "populous" is an adjective.
Care for a noun?
(Posted from a laptop that has never had Windows on it, the "Designed for..." sticker notwithstanding.)
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Just wanted to add here that it is possible to bypass the attempt to force the user to create an MS account during 8.1 upgrade by simply DISCONNECTING THE INTERNET.
All the more reason to go after MS and Apple, dominant American companies, to show that US does not push EU around... (Just please keep sharing any juicy data NSA finds, and we try to be as soft as public opinion allows).
Self-parody.
On my way to work this morning I saw a Microsoft ad with the tagline: "Your privacy is our priority."
People talk about Big Brother Gubmint, but seldom have I seen a better example of Doublespeak.
I dont think Joe User is ready for desktop linux quite yet
Users wont be ready to use linux flavors on the desktop until vendors are ready to support them.
Actually, the name is "Common Joe" and it's my wife that isn't ready to use Linux yet, but you're right. She has a business and the $1000 program that her clients require her to use only runs in Windows.
Their fevered defense of all things Redmond is looking even more like something out of PK Dick than before.
Microsoft really need to watch their own "your privacy is our priority" ads.
Of course an ivy league school full of the offspring of the rich/upper middle class is going to be chock full of Macs. Try going to average university where the students aren't loaded with money. Much fewer macintoshs there.
For the morons who can't RTFA nor the RTFAQ, the "mandatory" Microsoft Account link is for the beta, and for the beta only. It will not be there for the RTM. If you can not understand why Microsoft would want to keep an eye out for what you do when you sign up as a free beta tester with them, then you are a moron. Every single piece of beta software I have ever been part of building, was teeming with monitoring functionality, its the f*cking point of having a beta.
I would hope that as we are still seeing beta code that Microsoft will mop this all up in the next month... Although a little drastic, after trying Windows 8.1 I dusted off my Windows 7 install disk and rolled my laptop back to the OS that came with it... My goodness it was a refreshing change, no longer do I experience the jarring sensation of being yanked from my desktop to the start screen, I can always see what applications are running, I can have several things on screen at once. Yes, I miss staring endlessly at my ever changing live tiles, I miss using a pin code to log in, and I miss the plethora of pre-installed Microsoft applications... Or do I? Is Windows 8 just one big gimmick? It's a real shame that Microsoft have pulled off their leap to a new interface so poorly, with a bit more imagination Windows 8 may have been the radical idea that revolutionised the the flagging PC industry... Perhaps if they had embedded the "Start Screen" within the start menu for desktop users? After I got Windows 8 I went and got a Windows phone expecting my two devices to be symbiotically entwined, but they weren't, it became a whole pile of faff getting my email accounts on both devices, this should have been seamless! I ditched the Windows phone and got an iPhone... I'm in the market for a new laptop, and I'm being pulled towards a Macbook, I installed a "Hooky" copy of OSX in a virtual machine and instantly found it to be more like Windows than Windows 8. It also did everything Microsoft promised the Windows 8 would do, effortlessly syncing with my Apple ID calendar, email, address book... I'd be interested to see how many people are being steered away from Windows machines as a result of Windows 8.
At this point, I'm only upgrading for the unified search (not for online, but so apps/files/settings show up in the same blasted window). But now I'm hesitant to even go that far. Am I missing any "please let us have your data" steps?
I don't get it. They're bitching because Microsoft decided to not integrate Facebook pictures?
How...sinister of them. Damned if they try to do it all, cutting out competition, damned if they don't.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Windows Experience Index being deprecated constitutes "entire lopped off pieces"? Really? More FUD...
First of all: " I have an old single-core i3 machine with a Windows 8 WEI of 7.0." - the author
No you don't and no it doesn't. That doesn't exist and it wouldn't get scored that high if it was a 1st gen.
Second, who the hell uses the photos app? I removed it from the system I was demoing and set Windows Picture and Fax Viewer as default for all of its formats instead of approx 27 out of 56. I also set Windows Media Player, not the videos app or whatever, as default for everything then paved over the differences in file extensions with VLC.
The search feature is completely inexcusable but if one simple flip of a config switch turns off all web search in a local search, whatever, that's what I'll do if anyone has me set them up a Windows 8 machine. In the meantime, I have a stockpile of Windows 7 licenses and can still buy OEM ones from 2 major vendors.
As a long time linux user here are a few of my observations and opinions.
1) Just because you can fork doesn’t mean you should. How many devs are working on all the various debian based distros or forks of forks (mint forks ubuntu which forks debian).
If all those people's efforts (which are commendable) were focused on a smaller number of distributions perhaps the quality would go up?
2) Hardware – until the hardware vendors get serious about linux drivers there will always be unsolvable issues
3) The “RTFM” crowd. You know the type, some new linux user asks a question and someone with a serious superiority complex and too much time on their hands responds “RTFM”. Very helpful and fantastic you are no longer a “NOOB” but why did you use your precious time do to respond? Perhaps it’s because you wanted to boost your post count? Maybe it was a STUPID question in your mind but you had a few positive choices.
- not respond at all
- respond with help
- respond telling them where they can find help
You choose to be a jerk instead. Perhaps if people stopped doing this people would be more wiling to ask “dumb” questions? (Sideline, ever heard the saying there is no such thing as a dumb question just a dumb answer).
Why do I LOVE linux and encourage the kids to use it?
- I believe in the opensource model and there are incredibly talented people working on this.
- The quality of some products is equal or higher when compared to commercial products.
- The obvious cost benefits (OS plus a great office package which can do PDF’s for zero dollars)!
- They are not trapped into being corporate shills and can evaluate products based on their needs.
- No “activation/spying” concerns (other then Ubuntu search which I disable).
- A pretty good install of Ubuntu and an office package is around 1/5 what a windows install needs allowing small and fast SSD’s and amazing boot times.
. I have three kids. One runs ubuntu exclusively, the other reverted to windows when I was unable to fix the blue tint on all utube video’s. The third thinks it’s ugly and refuses to use it.
My own desktop runs Ubuntu and other then the ATI card constantly doing weird redraws its pretty good.
As for Windows 8. Tried it and it’s not a desktop OS.
Maybe 8.1 will get there by putting the start menu back. Flip side, they have made some good improvements but this seems like the whole ubuntu/unitiy debate. They made a choice on the UI and many disagree with that choice. At least they are doing the right thing and giving people a choice.
Microsoft is putting its interests ahead of its customers???
Has anyone talked to Balmer or Gates about this?
XKCD:Xeric Knowledge Comically Dispen
Install Linux as base OS. Always surf from a Linux virtual machine. Only use Windows when virtualized, and only when necesarry.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
I've made a tidy sum for years helping people get their systems set up. About 10 to 15 pc's a week. They drop them off at my office new, and I install everything they need including office, which I often purchase for them, transferring accounting software, data, photos, and other freeware/open source aps, and paied for applications they provide me licenses to.
Windows 8 goes and fucks this all up. I can with windows 8 still bypass the stupid Microsoft account, but with the new office no dice. I either have to register my customers software under my account which to me is stealing their software, or ask them to set up an account (which to them is hard, that's why they came to me to begin with), so I have 3 copies of office 2013 home and business sitting on my desk that I'm stuck with now, because I won't install them on a customers computer. I install Libre office, and tell customers they have to purchase and install office themselves because of problems with licensing. I also tell them that I have installed a good free office software, and they might want to give it a try before buying office.
The thing about google is that there is co-BENEFIT to signing up with a google account. Google backs up my android settings, automatically backs up all my phone photos to G+, allows me to use google apps, a nice synchronized calendar, a place to buy applications or download free applications that are vetted to be virus free, and I can turn all of that off if I don't want to use it. With Microsoft I see almost no benefit whatsoever except for them.
An Apple-built machine? The least-expensive choice? Okay.....
The problem with Linux seems to be that it's introducing a lot of new technologies that make it more difficult to do advanced administration (exactly the things you mentioned). The gain is often minimal. I find that RHEL-based distros are very sane in this regard. It may be that they are just years behind the other distros, but I think they do a bit of filtering too with regards to what technologies to add.
This is all different than the objections to Windows 8.1. There we are talking tying in the software with MS services, and Linux doesn't do that a lot. There are of course software repositories, but that's an integral part of an OS now, and one can install third-party repositories. The closest thing is when Ubuntu integrated Amazon into their file search widget, and there was a big reaction to that. Apple is the third OS vendor, and they also seem to be going this way, with their iCloud and app store etc. I don't use Apple, and one of the reasons I was initially put off by them, some 15 years or so ago, was QuickTime for Windows. There were greyed out menu items that said you had to buy the pro version. That's clearly an ad, and they choose to clutter up the menus for me to sell me stuff. Even for a free program, that doesn't make me want more of their software. At that point, MS didn't have any ads and "activation" was a big controversy (I mean, it's still a bloody pain, I have to call the activation robot ~2 times every year, but people seem to accept it). Linux is the only major OS that still keeps this ethos from the early 00s, and hasn't given in to DRM and service maina.
How exactly is Google good at PR?
Well, they've managed to convince a non-trivial number of people that "do no evil" still drives their decision-making process, for one.
#DeleteChrome
What do you mean when you say you hardcoded the IP addresses? Do you even know what 'hardcoded' means?
Dropbox drops it like it's hot.
Im installing Win98 - forget all the current bells and whistles, and on my current hardware it'll fly
no matter how good it is, it is human nature always wants to make things better
On the other hand, no worry about drive-by downloads, malicious websites etc. ASCII files come in on a memory stick ; PDFs leave the same way and go to the computers on the customer's network.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
I had to set my parents up on Windows 8 a few weeks back when we bought my dad a new ultrabook (and your OS choices are pretty much, Windows 8).
Anyway It required registration to a MS account using an email address. So I enter my parents ISP email address as that is their primary.
Windows 8 doesn't like it. Refuses to register. Stuck. Had to use a Gmail webmail account that they had, which they don't really use, nor do they even remember the password to. Windows 8 took that. A webmail account over an ISP dedicated...
Anyway if I had the time, I am sure I could probably fined the issue online or something, but seriously. You buy a 1000$ computer with a new Windows 8 operating system and the first thing it does is prohibit you from actually using it.
I know it was going to piss me off. I mean this is someone who hates Microsoft (or at least hates Windows 8/phone 8 and is trying to get small minded people to back him. I hate apple but I would never write about apple (unless it was to argue a point and then I would say its my opinon). Google and apple both track their users and they're probably more abrasive than Microsoft will be. Microsoft with IE turned on "do not track" while others made you hunt for the button which most people did not. It seems to me Microsoft is looking more out for peoples privacy than most companies. Sure want to make money off of advertising, but like I said so is Google and apple. You don't want to be tracked get an old flip phone and take out the battery every when you're not using it and use a pager so can see who's calling because every company is going to track.
Seriously, how many people are going to switch to Linux over this? Nobody.
I did.
"Trump!!", the new Godwin.