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Is the Porsche Carrera GT Too Dangerous?
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "CNN reports that the 600 horsepower Porsche Carrera GT is notoriously difficult to handle, even for professional drivers. Known as the car actor Paul Walker was riding in when he died, there is no suggestion anyone was to blame for Walker's crash but Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson says drivers are on a 'knife edge' handling the car and described it as 'brutal and savage". 'It is a phenomena — mind blowingly good. Make a mistake — it bites your head off.' Todd Trimble, an exotic car mechanic in Las Vegas, says the Carrera GT is a 'very hard car to drive.' It's (a) pure racer's car. You really need to know what you're doing when you drive them. And a lot of people are learning the hard way.' The sports car has a top speed of 208 mph, a very high-revving V10 engine and more than 600 horsepower says Eddie Alterman, editor-and-chief of Car and Driver magazine. 'This was not a car for novices,' says Alterman. Having the engine in the middle of the car means it's more agile and turns more quickly than a car with the engine in the front or in the rear so it is able to change direction 'very quickly, very much like a race car,' adds Alterman. The Carrera GT is also unusual because it has no electronic stability control which means that it's unforgiving with mistakes. 'Stability control is really good at correcting slides, keeping the car from getting out of shape,' says race car driver Randy Pobst. Alterman concludes that learning to drive a car like a Carrera GT can be extremely tricky. 'Every car is sort of different. And this one, especially since it had such a hair-trigger throttle, because it changed directions so quickly, there is a lot to learn.'"
How safe is the car when you follow all driving laws like speed limits especially through turns?
Why this kinda of attitude? It's obvious the car was speeding and didn't respect the limit in that specific street, price paid. There aren't doubles in real life like in movies...
"...there is no suggestion anyone was to blame for Walker's crash..." unless you follow that link which says that the police suspect that speed was involved. No question that anyone not in the car was to blame is a different sentence indeed. Looking at the pictures of the scene its hard to imagine that they were driving anywhere close to the 45mph speed limit.
You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
But then again, he was a cop with a lot of driving experience.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Any car is dangerous if you drive fast and make a mistake.
... even a tricycle can become deadly.
Stop blaming the car.
The problem is the driver.
That Porsche may have 600 hp, but in the hand of an excellent driver, it would be still a very safe car.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
don't listen to him ... you WILL regret it.
Time for bed, said Zebedee - boing
However, it is a car designed to allow a driver to use its "flaws" to wring the absolute maximum of performance out of it.
Needless to say, this requires a driver that learns how to drive, and not the driver's ed that most get in high school.
FWIW I learned to drive in a Porsche (356c coupe) and when Dad bought a "replacement" in '88 (a '84 Carrera 3.2 factory turbo look) he immediately took a driver's course at the Sebring race track. Even the 356 with its whopping 75 horsepower is a performance car, and the rear engine design will let it get away from you if you are careless and drive it like it is a Buick.
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
Cars don't kill people. Stupid people driving cars kill people.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
You know, some of us remember driving cars that didn't have airbags, antilock brakes, traction control, rear view cameras, auto felch, auto transmission, etc. Neither then nor now were those cars "too dangerous".
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Every car behaves differently once it's over the edge.
Porches are notorious for "biting your head off" when you make a mistakes (of course not all of them). But the road is not the place to pull this stunts and if you want an "easy" handling car you should do your homework first.
Besides the Carrera GT is an iconic car and should be kept on a pedestal and not driven on the edge on the roads. Especially if you don't have the skills and the focus required to drive above the edge.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
I doubt they lost control at 45mph. 145mph, probably... on a city street.... pretty much any car is dangerous in that situation.
Speeding in most cases isn't dangerous, but reckless driving is, and three times or more than the speed limit is certainly reckless.
Isn't that what all "true" sports cars should be like. There's a quote from Jeremy in regards to the Ferrari F430 Scuderia,
"It's not like Ferrari aftershave...this is what a Ferrari should be like. [Thick Italian accent] "You make mistake, I kill.""
Porsche has ALWAYS made cars that will bite VERY hard and VERY fast if provoked. They have also made cars that are easy to drive with ABS and stability control and AWD for decades now. You pay your money, make your choice, and take your chances. Back when the 930 was new in the late 70s there were always stories of them being wrecked on the way home from the dealership and I can see how. The power came on it that car with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer. You prod the throttle in a turn and the rear tires break loose, which scares you into yanking your foot off the gas. At that point you learn all about trailing throttle oversteer and go off the road backwards. The Carrera is a bit more sophisticated than that, but I am sure 600 HP can get you in trouble in a hurry. The old mid-engined Porsche I drove for years was a ton of fun and you could learn to steer with your feet as well as your hands and go around corners pretty much sideways. That took a ton of practice to perfect or you could jab the gas and brakes and go off the road.
It's not the speed that kills, it's coming to a sudden stop against those trees.
"If anyone needs me, I'm in the angry dome."
Fast and Furious actor gets killed in a car accident... Sort of like if Arnold Schwarzenegger got crushed by an industrial robot.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
This isn't a warning. This is an advertisement for people who fancy themselves awesome drivers. All the salesperson needs to say is, "You know, this is a very dangerous car. Paul Walker couldn't handle this car. You look like you could." Sale!
...we have a fair number of accidents involving wealthy men in airplanes that exceed their training and skill level, which they bought on the assumption that "If I can buy it, I can fly it." This would seem to be similar.
I've always wondered if stability control does more harm than good. It can encourage people who know better to push cars harder in the belief that the electronics will save them from trouble. Meanwhile, drivers who grow up with it are unlikely to learn basic driving dynamics (since once again, the stability control takes care of it).
We already recently had a discussion about this in aviation, where automation is usurping basic piloting skills, resulting in situations like the Air France 447 crash. In that situation, we had a panicking pilot desperately pulling back on the stick, which is the worst thing a pilot can do in a stall.
Oh, no! You have walked into the slavering fangs of a lurking grue!
O.K., you are going to need to help me out with my ignorance. I get the physics of why mid-mounted engines are better, but what is the logic in not having stability control? If I understand it correctly (which I may not) stability control stops you from doing stupid things like skidding. And while skidding is fun there are better and faster ways of handing a turn.
I can see why this might be banned for racing. Racing is supposed to test the driver’s skill and when the computer has better skill then the drive it is less of a test. But on a street legal car?
I haven't yet read the article, but offhand it seems that the problem isn't so much with the car itself as it is the person driving it. The problem, to me, seems to stem from people with more money than driving skill. You wouldn't go out and buy a McLaren F1 if you can't drive a Camaro, for instance. This isn't a great analogy, but hopefully you understand my meaning. Porsche seems to have become associated more with status than with performance and racing these days. A great deal of the blame lies with Porsche themselves for taking this idea and running with it (Porsche SUV anybody?).
...so someone doesn't accidentally buy a $335,000 600hp sports car without realizing IT MIGHT BE DANGEROUS.
In other news: the government has banned running with scissors.
-Styopa
And blaming the driver. A little background. While not professional drivers Walker and the driver were on a race team together and did plenty of circuit races. The guy driving has a GT3 so is more than familiar with the class of cars in question. Each had many more hours logged racing than any pilot would have flying before being able to get his flight license. It's easy to blame the driver, and it could rightly end up that way. However, the question of whether the car malfunctioned or should not be considered street legal should also be asked. Point being, if you believe these guys had no business driving this car then nobody shy of an F1 driver should be able to by them, hence they are too dangerous to sell to the general public.
And they would have gotten out alive, or at least not burned to a crisp. Tesla's don't burn their occupants in a massive fireball when they hit a street sign (and a tree, and a light pole).
And 600HP is nothing. I've got a good friend from college who gets almost 1200HP in his GTR (1192 WHP / 1402 crank, actually). I don't see him wrapping it around vertical objects.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
This is all an overreaction. Everyone knows that a single isolated incident of a car bursting into flames after some kind of impact is no big deal. We shouldn't be concerned until at least three reports surface in the news. At which point it instantly becomes SERIOUS BUSINESS and must be investigated!
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
It wasn't the speed per se, it was the lack of skill for the situation.
Sebastian Vettel may have had no trouble with the circumstances, but that is a different skill level.
Your grandma at 25mph in her Camary is probably at the edge of her skill level.
These cars serve a purpose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines
An internal system operation returned the error "The operation completed successfully.".
OS analogy, in this case, boils down simply to PEBKAC. The OS did its job, but he was trying to achieve gigabit speeds on 802.11b wifi. Many fellow network admins have died doing exactly that.
Gasoline or Cocaine? Both are addicting, give you a massive adrenaline boost, and fuck you up if you don't respect them. Maybe it's time to make cars with more than 200hp illegal. Think of the live's that will be saved.
If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
The modern trend of running away from responsability.
Are they sure it wasn't the wind? Or bad feng shui?
This is what comes to mind (comment subject) when CNN report that crap. CNN talks only about the car like that was the problem...seriously ? Anything in the hands of a human can become dangerous...even a damn spoon. Spoon "could" kill someone :). Seriously though, take a car, take a guy who lacked a moment of responsibility and you have a dangerous cocktail right there...same applies for everything and anything else. It's not too complex to grasp. Stop bashing on the cars...that wasn't the problem...the driver was
As someone that's driven 1,000+ HP cars, worked over a decade around high performance cars ... yes.
There are some cars that have a reputation of trying to kill you, but the Carrera GT is on the far side of that spectrum. Clutch engagement range compared to a light switch and no ground clearance makes this car difficult to drive on the street.
This isn't a 911, or anything remotely streetable. Many crazy high performance cars come with very advanced stability controls and AWD for a reason.
It's not the speed that kills, it's coming to a sudden stop against those trees.
In a crash, the internal organs are still moving even after a human body comes to a complete stop. The internal organs can slam into other organs of the skeletal system. This internal collision is often the cause of serious injury or death. For example, a person’s head might collide with the windshield of the car during the second collision. The still-moving brain then collides with the inside of the skull, causing swelling and/or bleeding. This is the third collision. As total mass and speed of the vehicle(s) involved in a motor vehicle crash increase, there is a proportionate increase in the opportunity for injury to the human body, both externally and internally.
http://safe-driver.hubpages.com/hub/In-Every-Vehicle-Crash-There-Are-Actually-Three-Collisions
If you operate a vehicle in an unsafe way (including speeding) then it's your own damn fault. If you want Top Gear Jeremy Clarkson is a master of exaggeration. He called the 19'inch wheels on a mercedes AMG "the size of neptune".
did you forget to take your meds?
A gun in the hands of an unsafe gun owner is dangerous A car no matter what car in the hands of an unsafe driver is dangerous There are tons of high performance cars on the market driven safely everyday Guns don't kill people, people kill people Cars don't kill people, people kill people.
Don't forget, we're dealing with wholesale ignorance on the part of the media.
Having recalled stories from back when the Carrera GT was introduced there weren't many reports that the car was particularly dangerous. This is a track-oriented high end sports car. Most cars in that performance category are challenging to drive near the limits. I do have to admit a caveat; most in the automotive press gush over every new model that comes along, saving criticisms for when the car is well past it's prime. But the fact remains that there are a multitude of performance cars out there that are notorious for being difficult to drive.
Just because a car handles well doesn't mean it does the driving for you. Unfortunately, this is where the vast majority of people display massive ignorance, because they do believe that a car will save you from mistakes and incompetence. And they're convinced that the better it performs the better it will do the job.
The two guys in that Carrera GT were supposed to be more competent than most given that they have race cars. But given that they weren't career racers doesn't mean they were actually competitive, let alone any good at it. There are gentleman races all over the country where rich men bring high priced toys to the track and many show an embarrassing lack of skill.
But let's assume these guys were decent. That still doesn't change the fact that they were on an unpredictable public road, engaged in a dangerous activity. These guys crash all the time at tracks, even when they're good; they aren't pushing hard enough to win if they aren't risking a crash. So take that mentality to the open road and problems ensue. There's a reason why car insurance rates are higher for race car drivers.
All this doesn't consider the possibility that the Carrera GT might have been modified by Paul Walker's shop. I don't think that's particularly relevant, because the stock car was fast enough. But if it were the car would likely have been even more difficult to control.
Unfortunately, we've got all this ridiculous analysis when the reality is actually quite simple. A couple of guys went out for a joyride, wrecked and died. It's no different than when some kid does the same in a Honda Civic.
Alterman concludes that learning to drive a car like a Carrera GT can be extremely tricky. ... learning to drive a car like a Carrera GT fast can be extremely tricky.
Known as the car actor Paul Walker was riding in when he died, there is no suggestion anyone else other than the driver of the vehicle was to blame for Walker's crash
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
It also takes submillimeter scans of any children in the neighbourhood and uploads them to PirateBay.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
No, because the design features are in place for a reason and there are other products available with those features altered. So if you bought this thing, you wanted a high powered unstable killing machine.
[FUCK BETA]
Driven under normal conditions, other than the extremely touchy clutch at launch, there's nothing difficult or dangerous about it. The vehicle belongs to my uncle, and in the proper settings is a blast to drive. But, you have to know that when someone hands you the keys to 600hp, and more torque than anyone rationally needs, you have to respect it. My daily drive is a 470hp Charger SRT8, but even with that, I was amazed what a kick in the pants the Porsche is.
Just another day in Paradise
NO!!!! This is the road aviation went down. Aircraft manufacturers were tired of getting sued for everything and learned real quick that improvement X made this year was fertile grounds for lawsuits because every plane made prior to this year did NOT have it. Porsche makes cars your granny can drive. If you are too stupid to handle a 600 HP car, then go buy one of those and don't wreck it for everone else.
I've driven two cars at or around 100mph on the highway -- a Datsun 240Z and a Plymouth Caravelle. The former I borrowed from a friend for a trip-with-a-girl, the latter I drove as a salesman.
Guess which car was better at 100mph. Nope, the Caravelle...by a mile.
I nudged the Z to 100 (it might have been 90 something...happened 30 years ago and yes my beard is gray) and immediately reduced the speed to 70mph range for the rest of the trip due to the feeling of a car about to be out of control.
The Caravelle, on the other hand, never felt out of its element. I pushed it very hard, on winding roads...no issues. I cruised at 85mph for hours...no issues. I would start it, immediately slam it into gear, and go. Couldn't have asked for more from a car...and I don't like Plym/Chry/Dodg vehicles (for personal ownership).
So, you never know what cars suck at being cars until you drive them. Sounds like this Porsche sucks. And it also sounds like Paul's "friend" wasn't.
I come here for the love
Because it's the car that's unsafe. If they were driving any other vehicle, the headline would use it's name instead. Those two died, it's terribly sad, but it could have happened to anyone in any car.
40-45 mph:
http://www.nbcnews.com/entertainment/paul-walker-was-real-hero-daughter-heart-soul-his-charity-2D11683842
I suppose even a minor wreck can be fatal if the gas tank is ruptured.
I, along with most other "enthusiasts", wholeheartedly appreciate all the electronic gear and realize that a lot of it does make for outright faster lap times - but at the same time, I'd like to be able to switch it off should I choose. There's something to be said for hanging the ass out with a healthy jab at the throttle and shrieking around a parking lot trailing smoke, or slip-sliding around a corner on an empty gravel road in the boonies. OTOH, with extensive winter driving experience, there's also something to be said for having every driver aid known to man spinning a set of Blizzaks in the middle of a wicked nor'easter - all that skulduggery has gotten me home with far less stress than my reflexes and skills alone. There's a time and a place for everything, but a lot of manufacturers these days are eliminating the choice.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
In all fairness, the car is probably very safe as it leaves the assembly line. It's the irresponsible prick who puts gasoline in it that makes it dangerous.
The guy driving the car for starters since he was clearly travelling WAY about the posted speed limit.
Are you telling me that industry has so many regulation on how a car handled a crash that they all pretty much have to look alike, but no regulations at all the prevent a car that is near impossible to drive without getting into a crash?
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
given what is shown in the SIX movies was this a case of the actor THINKING he was better at driving than he was??
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Since Slashdot is supposed to be a place for nerds... and nerds like to know the technical details more than just sensationalizing the latest headlines (or at least like to think so).... here's some technical information on why cars like the Porsche Carrera GT is so difficult to drive. I unfortunately don't have time to write out all the details here, but here are some basic principles of automotive suspension tuning to keep in mind:
As you can see... the more aggressive you tune a chassis (which the Carrera GT was designed to be very aggressive, as that's the market they were after), the less compliant the car will be, and the more apt it will bite you if you make a mistake. Is this unsafe, or just a fact of the physics involved that you can't drive an aggressive sports car and expect it to handle like your Camry?
I've learned from the news that cars are dangerous!
Meanwhile, I spend almost every weekend patching together my friend's 1972 Super Beetle, which he drives daily to work, and he takes off from every light light like he's racing the next guy regardless of whether the other guy is driving a cheap Kia or a Lambo. At this point, the challenge has become how long we can continue to keep the car going, we continue to weld, patch, bondo, repaint, fix the engine when needed, and do whatever is needed to keep it running while he's putting 18,000 miles per year on a 41-yr old car. And we live in the Northeast, where beating the rust is an on-going issue.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
Looking at the pictures, it's pretty freakin' obvious the driver went "Lemme show you what the car can do - I got skillz yo, no worries!" and pegged it on a public street. Regardless of any risk to others, it's insanely moronic to drive like that off-track simply because there's zero margin. You fuck up, you die. No nice kerbs or runoff or gravel pits or SAFER walls to hit...just trees and lightposts. At 45mph, that car was perfectly safe, probably safer than anything else on the road that day because it's designed to go, and crash, much faster.
But it wasn't exactly going 45 now, was it? Even IF something in the car broke, and that was why there was a loss of control - there was a loss of control at MASSIVELY EXCESSIVE SPEED. The gearhead-hooligan in me is sad, but the Responsible Adult is pleased these idiots sanitized the gene pool.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
All mid engine cars have another quirk, when you are in a hard turn and you are having under steer, you actually have to hot the gas and not slow down for the turn and then you have to know the car very VERY well, because the point of no return where the rear let's go is like a knife edge.... grip,grip,grip, slide and if you are not ready for it the car will spin out. so drifting in one is for 10,000hour driving experts only. I know this,as I own a 400hp RWD mid engine custom car that is set up very much like this car.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Oh, FU, is suing the only thing you can think of? The driver was speeding, even if he was a (former) racing driver, the car crashed. Now you want to blame Porsche? Should we sue all knife manufacturers because there are alternative designs that might prevent you from cutting yourself?
Sig?
Is the car _too_ dangerous? No.
Was the driver's IQ too low too drive such a car? obivously yes.
"Unsafe at any speed"
I was reading stuff about this on Jalopnik, and even the test driver for this car was scared by it.
Former world rally champion and Porsche test driver Walter Rohrl told Drive the new Porsche supercar is "the first car in my life that I drive and I feel scared".
Earlier this year, Rohrl said, the engineering team was about to cancel a day's testing at the famous Nurburgring circuit because of wet weather. But, Rohrl said, when he insisted the car had to be tested in slippery conditions, he discovered the car's daunting performance.
"I came back into the pits and I was white," Rohrl said. "I immediately said to the engineers that we need one button for the wet and one button for the dry", referring to the need for a traction control switch.
This car is so hard to control that you have to give it your attention 110% of the time or it will bite you in the ass. Jay Leno spun one at 180+ MPH on the track.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
You are confusing "were those car you drove in 1950 too dangerous comapred to the average 1950's car" and you are right that response is indeed no. But are cars with a security concept from the 1950 too dangerous compared to today's security you listed ? hell yeah. 1950's car were not deformable. That alone make a huge difference. When was the last time you heard somebody dying because the steering column destroyed his sternum ? You don't anymore. But you used to. Those car are nowadays too dangerous, because there are SAFER alternative. As for the porsche, it is a circuit car in its optimum usage. On road usage, it is a sub optimum car, and it is definitively a car in which people are bound to go for bad habits , like speeding. The few porsche user I ever saw were *always* highly speeding. One things to remember, is that luckily those guys killed themselves on an inanimate object. It could have been another car instead, and we have had enough example here around of BMW, porsche user piling themselves into innocent bystander at 200+ kmh.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
is that the barrier to entry is money, not driving skill. Any bozo with enough money and a driver's license can buy one of these cars. This is the kind of car that very few people would have the skill to drive properly, let alone afford the thing in the first place.
So what's the solution? Well, making the car or the insurance more expensive won't help. Remember, these guys (mostly) have lots of money to begin with. Banning the cars completely? No, that won't help either. Are we going to ban bridges too because someone might jump off one?
How about making the safety equipment (stability control, traction control, etc.) mandatory at the factory? I'm ok with that as long as you have the ability to turn it off when you need to. And would that extra feeling of safety encourage them to drive even faster? Maybe.
It's a difficult question to answer. At what point does your right to enjoyment infringe upon the rights of others?
Porsche makes cars your granny can drive.
But the Carrera GT is not one of them.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
I definitely do not want to start a war here, but give me a V6 Mustang and I can have just as much fun on the streets or the track as someone with a $100k Porsche, or any other "super car" for that matter. Plus it looks much more bad ass.
OK...I do want to start a war. :-)
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
No.
So people are asking about the safety and stability of Porsches because a celebrity died. Mid-engined Porsches are now and have always been far safer than the rear-engined varieties. Rear-engined models suffer (earlier models much more than recent ones) from lift-throttle oversteer. If you enter a curve too fast and then back off the throttle (a normal response), because of the semi-trailing-arm geometry of the rear suspension the reduction in squat causes a reduction in the outside rear wheel's toe-in, which steers the back end of the car outwards, sometimes sending the car off the road backwards. The rear suspension design combined with the rear weight bias made the 911 and its ilk inherently dangerous for unaware drivers and at least twitchy for the rest. Even today, if you want a somewhat-forgiving predictably-handling Porsche, buy a mid-engined Boxster or Cayman. The real issue with the mid-engined GT was not the engine location but the race-car reflexes and very high horsepower. As others have said, OK for skilled and practiced drivers paying 100% attention, but not otherwise. I'm fine with people focusing attention on Porsche's bad designs, but the V10 GT wasn't particularly one of them.
What kind of idiot needs 600 horsepower on a public road? How is it even legal for this car to be /on/ a public road?
It's a sports car, and a Porsche at that. That's what they do.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
have on the dash a slot for a "race key" that you click in and then use like a toggle (hold for 3 seconds and then slide Up/down to set.
This would ,stability control, ABS ect
1 disable the now "unneeded" safety options (speedlimiter
2 turn the on a set of "race mode" lights (maybe some neon strings if you want to get fancy??)
Of course this would also enable folks to get ticketed for Intent to Race on Public Streets if somebody "forgets" to pocket their Race key driving about.
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Does the GT have a fuel cell* or a tank? Specs I've found online only mention 'tank' (24.3 US gal, 92 L). The ensuing fire may very well have been due to the tank (located mid-chassis, behind the seats) rupturing. I would be shocked and surprised to see such a car intended for racing, equipped with a standard fuel tank.
*Not the electrochemical battery type. The safety bladder, foam filled tanks required by many racing organizations.
Have gnu, will travel.
The problem is that if you're driving an unsafe vehicle on public roads
The car was not unsafe in normal use. The car was only unsafe when pushed really hard (as in: something you probably shouldn't be doing on public roads).
you're not just putting your own life at risk, but that of other drivers
Of note is that no other drivers were harmed, or even around when the accident took place.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Sure, most downmarket cars don't have the ability to switch off the stuff, but then again who wants to zip a Fiesta around like Vettel? (Well, the ST is amazing, but I digress). Funny thing though, most of the high-end vehicles still offer plenty of ways to shut down all the aids. Hell, most of 'em come with a Big Red Switch conspicuously labeled "RACE MODE" that handily switches everything off and resets the suspension for performance. I take it that should all be banned, no?
Come to think of it, why should ANY car capable of exceeding 75mph, or getting there in 15 seconds, be legal? Seriously?
Also, if you enjoy a sports car with anything other than TC and ABS (both of which make it faster) you have no business wasting money and fuel driving it.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
Somebody buys a car like this, they should already know what it can do.
Except that the people who are the likely buyers for a car like that and the people that can drive it well are seldom the same people. Most people that buy a car like a Corvette really can't handle the car anywhere close to its limits, never mind a street legal race car like the Porsche. But you get lots of guys with more cash than brains.
Sigh. This is what's wrong with our litigious nation. People want others to pay for their own idiocy. Can we please start taking responsibility for our own fuck ups? Let's make it so that nobody can purchase one of these because there are safer alternatives.
Please don't ever eat with a knife and fork, you might injure yourself.. You know there's safer, more reasonable alternatives.
This accident isn't about a flawed vehicle, it's about driving on a public road at unsafe speeds, as evidenced by the police stating that speed was a factor. Until you have direct evidence to the contrary, your suggestion is simply naive.
Just another day in Paradise
Cars don't kill actors. Porsches kill actors.
you've obviously never driven a porsche boxster. one of the most stable, well handling cars i've ever driven. and it's mid-engine.
My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
"...possible evidence of a fluid burst and subsequent fluid trail before the skid marks at the accident scene."
The sources also made evident the absence of skids leading up to where the crash took place, with marks only noticeable before the point of impact. They claim if Roger had lost control of the vehicle there would be visible signs on the road from swerving rather than in a straight line, suggesting he didn't have control of the steering. "
Which would make all this talk of their skill and the dangers of that model moot in this situation. Perhaps we should wait for the final investigation report.
I have a few friends that drive GTs and one who has a GT RS. All of them emphasized that they "worked their way up" to the GT. First a BMW 3 series, then a BMW M3, then a Porsche Boxster, then a Carrera, and finally (in one case) a 911. They all said that the step-up to their first Porsche was the biggest difficulty, and when they went to professional racetrack driving lessons.
YouTube is littered with videos of these things crashing in inexperienced hands.
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
if the driver wants to drive a Carrera GT because he thinks it is "cool" then they should only hand them to you if you have the necessary training
This is what is done in aviation in the U.S. If a private pilot wants to fly a high performance aircraft then they need additional training and endorsements for their license. Keep in mind that in aviation high performance is an engine with more than 200 horsepower, we are *not* talking about racing or acrobatic aircraft, simply "excess" horsepower.
The basic idea being that with greater horsepower comes greater speed and with greater speed comes less time to fix a problem or mistake.
You know, some of us remember driving cars that didn't have airbags, antilock brakes, traction control, rear view cameras, auto felch, auto transmission, etc. Neither then nor now were those cars ''too dangerous.''
In 1972 there were 54,589 traffic deaths in the U.S., population 201 million.
In 2012, 34,080 traffic deaths, population 314 million.
In 1972, 4 deaths per 100 million miles travelled.
In 2012, 1 death per 100 million miles travelled. List of motor vehicle deaths in U.S. by year
Protip 1: It's safer for everyone if you drive your car near its limits on a track with safety gear rather than on the open roads.
Why people have any sympathy for these guys is beyond me. They exceeded the 45-mph speed limit on a public road in their $450,000 car by so much that it completely disintegrated when it hit a light pole. Walker had enough money that he could have built his own private race track or rented the road from the city for the day.
Unless the throttle got stuck AND they couldn't get the (standard transmission) car into neutral, they are both incredibly irresponsible as they could have killed dozens of people.
The hypocrisy associated with the AP reporting and posted messages on other sites is almost as horrifying. If any "normal" person drove like that, the cops would immediately revoke their license and jail them and the public would ostracize them. Teenagers die every day by wrapping their WRXs around light poles and people would immediately accuse them of being hot-rodding idiots before the accident reports are completed. However, because this guy was famous and had experience driving fast, expensive cars, we're all expected to be sad for him, his friends and his family?
More Toyota Camrys are involved in fatal accidents each year, than the total number of Carrera GTs involved with fatal crashes, ever.
By your "logic," a Toyota Camry is unsafe, for a street car.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Stability control saves lives, know what Porsche's PSM stands for? Please Save Me. The non GT Carrera's i.e. the 911's all have stability control and even though there is a button to turn it off it is not completely disengaged.
A few years back another GT driver and his passenger were killed on a race track in So. California by a Ferrari entering the track the GT swerved, went in to the grass and hit a retaining wall. http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2006-06-07/carrera-gt-crashes-into-court
These cars need stability control, this is a huge mess for Porsche. Thank God they don't make these GT's anymore, half of them are gone anyway and when the wreck there's not much left.
There's a time and a place for everything, but a lot of manufacturers these days are eliminating the choice.
The muscle cars of the 1960s disappeared when auto insurance rates priced them out of reach of their target audience.
You can engineer a car for performance on the track or you can engineer a car for safety and economy on the public roads. The hybrid racer-roadster is as deeply compromised physically as the flying car and will most likely meet the same end.
The problem is that if you're driving an unsafe vehicle
The problem is pussies like you who think you have the exclusive right to define what's "unsafe", and who won't rest until you've bitched and complained and twisted arms and pointed guns at enough people's heads to ensure your worthless ass feels safe.
... on public roads, you're not just putting your own life at risk, but that of other drivers (and pedestrians) as well. You might be willing to take the risk of not having Electronic Stability Control and anti-lock braking, but why should the other people on the roads have to put up with the unnecessarily increased risk that you'll crash into them?
Because life is dangerous, and this is a free country.
Unfortunately, these days the place is full of cowards like yourself who spend your miserable lives being frightened of every little thing. That's why it's become such an authoritarian shithole. You are such a disgusting piece of shit. Look in the mirror: you are the problem.
How many of these cars are there on the road? How many are involved in fatal crashes? Take the second number and divide it by the first. Compare it to other cars. If the porsche number is significantly higher, then you have a story.
Otherwise you're just making excuses to gossip about celebrities and point fingers.
Well, he was also famous and that seems to make a huge difference to some people.
All you hear about is "tragedy" and "life taken too soon".
What if he hit and killed someone else on their little "joy ride"?
This is posed as as if it were questioning the safety of a regularly available car. The Carerra GT is a very limited production run vehicle (limited to 1,000 or so) that hasn't been made in 7 years. It's not even fair to compare it to any other street-legal Porsche every made because it was such a rare, expensive, and powerfully tuned vehicle. It was a 600hp car in its stock version, and a fairly light car at that. I believe that the car Paul Walker was in was more powerful than stock.
Died in a Porsche as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dean#Accident_and_aftermath
If only he had stability control.....
Well 1,270 were made between 2004-2007 and 604 were sold in the U.S.
So just looking at the four people who died in the U.S. (that I know of): 2 in the accident with Paul Walker and 2 in the 2006 crash out of 604 cars that's pretty high. Also not everyone can afford $500k+ car, those who do tend to be known in some fashion.
These cars are temperamental, twitchy, and unsafe maybe one of the reasons Porsche stopped making them. If you want a fast Porsche get the 991 Turbo S, albeit not as pretty.
The car went into flames. The passengers were probably killed thanks to the fire, not the shock.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
"Is the Porsche Carrera GT Too Dangerous?" = No. Is a Veyron too dangerous? Is a 1000cc motorbike too dangerous?
"Are drivers who break the law dangerous to others?" = Yes
Retard subject of the year on /.
Thing is, a gun owner is generally safe or unsafe with any gun. Empirically, I'm a reasonably safe driver with a Honda Civic or similar car. I wouldn't know what to do in a race car. I'm pretty sure I'd be a really unsafe driver.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
...what the patronizing guy in Red Asphalt 3 would say?
You drive a Porsche Carrera GT even at or below the speed limit? YOU DIE!
Don't blame Porsche for delivering what the consumer wants. Some people should have big soft luxury cars that are nice to ride in, but can't get out of their own way. They need these because they have no interest in doing anything else in a car but get from point A to point B and back. That is okay. There are others that prefer to "drive" rather than "ride" in a car. They push the envelope, and need to understand what the car can and can't do, because sooner or later they are going ask the car to do it. (Only real way to push the envelope). A riders car will have either a front or rear engine. If you push either too hard either the front end slides or the rear end slides. A Driver's/Racer's car is balanced so that all four wheels have equal traction. But, when a balanced weight car breaks traction, it does it with all four wheels. If all you ever drove was an unbalanced car you will not have a clue how to recover. The car in question; (carrying Paul Walker) was driven in the wrong manner in the wrong location, pure and simple. Don't blame the car.
I'm not sure what "Top Gear" is, but wouldn't you think someone being quoted in the media would know that "phenomena" is a plural noun?
I will never ever understand WHY production cars have this much power...can reach speeds that goes above the speed limits...BUT...it comes down to the person driving it. Just like a gun. It's the human "interaction" with it/both.
Why does anybody need to drive this on the public roads and why do I have to be put at risk by rich but classless twat c*nt idiots who want to show off? They can drive it on a race track and w*nk over the video of themselves later. There should not only be a speed limit on the roads, there should also be an Acceleration Limit.
If cold tires are the difference between having an accident or not then the car is not fit for use on the road. Period. I have driven my car in all conditions and never had an accident. Why? 1) It is a 1100 cc 2 door which could not wheel spin if you paid me to try; 2) I am not a w*nky twat c*unt face who needs to show off on my way to pick up a pint of milk from Tescos putting the lives of everyone else on the road in danger just to satisfy my lust for posing. We need an Acceleration Limit as well as a Speed Limit.
Exactly as for your regular PC, the problem lies between the seat and the wheel (screen), the machine is only the tool.
...every other 911 derivative for the last 50 years.
The original 911 would just swing that engine right around in front if you'd let it.
When did they become mid-engine?
(Oh: I see: *the 980* was mid.)
I've driven a Porsche Carrera GT extensively in Need For Speed Rivals, Most Wanted and Hot Pursuit. I can say unequivocally that it is a safe car to drive.
And I'm at least as qualified to drive the Carrera GT at high speeds as Paul Walker, who had similar experience with driving high performance cars at high speed.
You are welcome on my lawn.