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America 'Has Become a War Zone'
An anonymous reader writes, quoting Business Insider: "Eight different law enforcement agencies in Indiana have purchased massive Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles (MRAP) that were formerly used in Iraq and Afghanistan, Mark Alesia reports for the Indy Star. Pulaski County, home to 13,124 people, is one of the counties that have purchased an 55,000 pound, six-wheeled patrol vehicles, from military surplus. When asked to justify the purchase of a former military vehicle, Pulaski County Sheriff Michael Gayer told the Indy Star: "The United States of America has become a war zone."'
If law enforcement needs this type of equipment, then it has long abandoned any pretense of serving the people and has instead reverted to its original purpose of fighting the people for those in power.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
... We start carrying semi-automatics, they buy automatics. We start wearing Kevlar they buy armor-piercing rounds.
Even with Ad-Block, that link is gross.
Slashdot groupthink hates the militarization of our police. Sheriff Gayer (seriously?) isn't going to help that cause.
SWAT teams are a reality. Buying them a surplus MRAP isn't shocking.
Sheriff Gayer making stupid comments, however, won't help anything...
The United States of America is a war zone, the government is at war with its citizens.
For five grand, I'd be tempted to buy one, too.
Everyone needs guns. We can have the old west again. People shooting the "bad guys" left and right. Don't try to make society better by helping those that need it. Just arm everyone.
needs to go to a war zone for a few months.
Violence has been trending down for decades. This dumb ass just get a hard on with driving around in the military vehicle.
Plus he is in Johnson county doing Sheriff duties. Not anything close to a war zone. Using a few stories from the news to claim America is a war zone is so fucking stupid this guy should be fired. Clearly he can not do basic statistics within his field. Someone anyone making purchasing decision should be able to do.
Tell me what crime you deal with the requires this?
http://www.jocosheriff.org/ind...
AND it's going to be more expensive to maintain, and the police should never use military anything, ever. They are NOT the military. Too many people are loosing touch with what the difference is.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
"America Has Become a War Zone, According to This One Guy"
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
Pulaski County Sheriff Michael Gayer told the Indy Star: "The United States of America has become a war zone."'
And then when he thought the mic was off he added "...and if it isn't, we'll soon make it one!"
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
You'll have to forgive Sheriff Gayer, after all it must feel like a warzone when you spend all you're available time and money engaged in the war on drugs because it's so damn profitable for the cops.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/...
The numbers are only worse now. States like Minesota that are average size take in around 8 million dollars and almost every penny of that money is given right back to the cops.
That is the lamest excuse I think I've ever heard. Why not just admit the truth? Homeland paranoid security is militarizing local police departments for civilian pacification when martial law is declared.
I'd like to moderate the story as flamebait.
"I will trust Google to 'do no evil' until the founders no longer run it." Hello Alphabet.
Most of the MRAPs are junk. The only thing they're really good at is absorbing a blast coming from under the vehicle. They're unstable and they guzzle fuel because of their weight and lack of aerodynamics. The citizens should be more concerned about how much of the municipal budget is going into fueling these pieces of shit.
This is why I constantly fear for my life and don't ever go out after dark in the multicultural hell hole of violence and degeneracy that is Canada.
"There's violence in the workplace, there's violence in schools and there's violence in the streets. You are seeing police departments going to a semi-military format because of the threats we have to counteract. If driving a military vehicle is going to protect officers, then that's what I'm going to do."
Uh, yeah, except violent (and property) crime has fallen to levels we haven't seen in 50 years (police-involved shootings, however, have gone up - in part, I'm sure, because of all the war vets getting preferential hiring in police jobs.)
This reminds me of the firefighters in our city. Fires have become extremely rare, thanks to better standards/code for electrics, building, appliances, etc...as well as education, etc.
Instead of laying off firefighters, they started sending them out to respond to medical calls. So we have giant ladder trucks responding to grandma saying her chest hurts, instead of spending that operating expenditure on ambulances that can respond quicker, or, say, pivoting the "fleet" towards much smaller, faster SUVs that carry high-tech equipment. Everyone thinks they're still really busy fighting fires. Win-win, except for citizens, screwed by both unnecessary expenditure and ineffective utilization of budget...
Please help metamoderate.
Come down to Jane and Finch for your daily cultural enrichment goy.
After all the US federal government is no longer enforcing the law for all, but selectively enforcing it. And punishing their enemies by dumping illegals on them. With various letter agencies going after people for being in their legal right.
Om, nomnomnom...
Canada isn't really a great example. All the good areas are overwhelmingly white and/or Asian and most other minorities are relegated to crime infested ghettos in a few major cities.
Cops are in the business to be cops, not too picky about whose will they enforce, so long as they're enforcing someone's will on someone.
This guy needs disciplining and should possibly be fired.
That won't happen, because safety, and the children, and we can't let the terrorists win. And this is how democracy dies; with thunderous applause.
Fortunately, I'll be dead in 40 years and this is all your problem, Millenials.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Any city who is large enough to need a full time firefighter sitting around waiting for disaster probably has them doing EMT services as well -- if not more so since fires are less common... but the amount to staff doesn't change a whole lot; you need staff on hand even if fires do not happen and I bet they do have fewer fire calls but MORE people which means they need more EMT staff. The station I drive bye has more ambulances than fire trucks and I bet when it was rebuilt in the 80s they expanded EMT space. I am in a suburb and I wish I could get a city EMT over the local hospital one; I've not only heard stories but they only make $9 an hour... The firefighters have an actual career plus they put their lives on the line; while the people here are probably half awake coming from their 2nd job.
Does anyone pay attention to the news anymore? Just yesterday a couple shot two cops who were peacefully siting down eating their lunch. They planned to attack the courthouse and start executing officials too. Just like that guy in Georgia the other week who was thankfully stopped before he could start. And there's a massacre about once every other month. Why do we need all these assault weapons?.
The shooters in Las Vegas used pistols. The guy here in Georgia planned to use homemade explosives once inside the building. The shooter in Seattle used a shotgun (horrible choice for a shooting rampage by the way unless you are using a Saiga shotgun-takes too long to reload). Most shootings in the US are committed with pistols, yet the majority of gun control advocates fixate on "assault weapons" (just because something is black and has a pistol grip does not make it more dangerous) because they are scary. Under "assault weapons" bans an SKS (a 5-shot semiautomatic Russian rifle with attached folding bayonet) would be perfectly legal, but the same rifle with a black TAPCO stock would be illegal. What we need are harsher penalties for felons possessing firearms/possesion of stolen firearms (a significant number of shootings in the US involve one of those 2 offenses) and better mental health treatment.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
So I noticed you're stuck 20 years in the past. My time machine is unfortunately in the shop at the moment or I'd help you out.
Hah, this'll teach everyone knocking today's Battlefield Hardline announcement from E3 because police stations supposedly don't have military style equipment like that shown in the game!
Since when has it been OK to conduct a no-knock raid on white-collar crime suspects? Or to use pyrotechnics and concussion devices in homes where there are multiple children living in a home with tight quarters?
There was a time where police officers used ingenuity, charm, and patience to disarm situations. This is an actual quote from my friend:
Another Trooper and I took an enforcer for the Vice Lords with a murder warrant in his house, invited in, on a Sunday morning with nothing but a bullshit lie about a another gangster in a fake car wreck.
I wonder how well that would have gone with an MRAP, instead?
What else can happen when an unstoppable force collides with an immovable object?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
This is why I constantly fear for my life and don't ever go out after dark in the multicultural hell hole of violence and degeneracy that is Canada.
You must live in Vancouver, Toronto, Ottawa, London, or Saskatoon then. They're all at varying points of degeneracy and violence, some of them are almost to detroit levels from the 90's. An example: Saskatoon(pop ~260k) has a murder rate than NYC(pop ~8.4m).
Om, nomnomnom...
America is becoming a war zone because the cops are hellbent on making it that way.
People who think revolution in America would be citizens versus military have it wrong. It's the damn cops that you'll all be fighting - it's just that they look more like military every day.
Aww man, now I need to upgrade my driveway's "vehicular denial" minefield to armor piercing? C'mon guys, that shit costs real money! Couldn't we stop the arms race at flechette mines?
Hey, if we live in a warzone, I have the right to protect myself. Hope none of you unarmored piggies try a no-knock...
They don't need all these toys.
They simply have too much money.
They get grants from the feds and have to spend it.
I watched this happen in a local tiny town who got their own drone. No need. Just a grant from Homeland Insecurity.
For those interested in the other end of the spectrum on the theories of policing, I feel a good start is the Peelian Principles.
There are other ways to police besides the slippery slope to another Star Chamber.
police (deputies, etc.) over the past five years have been attacked with IEDs?
Alternately, how would something like this have helped the cops in Las Vegas this weekend?
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
How much extra per month do I get?
Just read the statistics for the sheriffs department involved. 133 "crimes against persons" so far this year. But that includes a lot of bad checks, which they list as a crime against a person. It also includes telephone harassment, and "criminal threats". Some assaults, some rapes. No murders. About 63 drug offenses, mostly from traffic stops. Nothing for which an armored vehicle would be useful. It looks like a cop shop that has some real business maybe a few times a day.
They don't need an MRAP. They need a collection agency for the bad checks and a social worker for the domestic disturbances.
Progressives should move to Africa to experience their multicultural utopia.
just shut them down entirely. the people can arm themselves and protect themselves. sure beats hiding under a mattress or hiding in the closet waiting for somebody to come save you.
If you saw the comical hunt for the Boston Marathon Bombers last year you would have seen 1000's of fat, pink, Irish 'first responders', all with generous pensions, Massachusetts finest, chase Tsarnaev in full riot gear. All the while the disarmed rabbit citizen population cowered inside their homes. The rent-a-cops still let their quarry outside the perimeter, then, when they had him cornered in a boat, they shot it with 1000's of rounds and somehow missed the target! Will someone please take the guns from these people
an ill wind that blows no good
Just like the Freikorps that were a byproduct of WW1, our police state is blowback from our wars. Think of that the next time They want to bomb $country.
Sounds like another case of the "Fox News" virus.
Pulaski County, home to 13,124 people, is one of the counties that have purchased an 55,000 pound, six-wheeled patrol vehicles, from military surplus.
They better hope it doesn't fall into one of the many sinkholes in Pulaski Co
This is the war on terrorism logic. Even the cops are afraid and see military grade enemies everywhere now.
Have gnu, will travel.
In 1962 the City of Ft. Lauderdale purchased a riot tank due to the overwhelming fear of college students on spring break. I am now 90 miles north of Ft. Lauderdale and my tiny town has a tank designed to drive through the walls of homes on sudden, forced entries. It is a response to the odd drug dealer who wants to go down in a hail of bullets. No walls to hide behind with these tanks I suppose.
How dare you use facts to refute outrageous exaggerations!
I'm generally skeptical of the police, their huge budgets, and penchant for pushing (and breaking) the envelope on civil rights, but regarding the acquisition of these MRAPs here are a few points on why I don't think the alarmism is necessary:
The Pentagon no longer has use for these vehicles so they're giving them away for free or nominal charge according to other articles on this issue. Police departments basically can just ask and they will receive a vehicle.
Larger police departments already spend money on APCs for their SWAT teams. The APCs do have legitimate uses - mainly when dealing with suspects who are armed and dangerous and have threatened to open fire on approaching police. Smaller towns have just as legitimate needs for them but normally couldn't afford the APC purchase in their comparatively smaller budgets, exposing their officers to greater danger when out on SWAT calls.
MRAPs are definitely overkill, but they provide all the functional benefits of an APC with the additional component of resistance to IEDs/landmines. This aspect of the vehicles isn't likely to have utility for the police (I can't think of any stories of police encountering landmines in LE/SWAT duties) but since the vehicles are basically free, they're not really paying extra for this premium feature other than, perhaps, the added fuel costs that are associated with the heavier weight.
the people should have, too.
> "The United States of America has become a war zone," he said. "There's violence in the workplace, there's violence in schools and there's violence in the streets. You are seeing police departments going to a semi-military format because of the threats we have to counteract.
You are no longer an officer of the peace.
You are a new armed wing, a great example of the militarization of the American police force. As part part of the Deep State you see yourself as being on one side with the quarrelsome public and their whining on the other.
Violent crime in the US is at a multi-decade low.. and yet you seek tanks to patrol the streets of US cities.
It is any wonder that people freak when the DHS tries to buy 3 billion bullets?
Come drive around Detroit and outlying areas...
Why have all of our heros become cowards. Police were looked up to because as kids we believed they would give their life to save us. Now they demand military grade body armor and tank like vehicles to save their rears. Even a single engine Cessna airplane flying near DC causes panic and fear from our cowardly politicians.
And nobody like his local mayor called him on it
The local SHERIFF bought these. The Sheriff is a county level official - mayor is a local/city level official. More importantly though, the Sheriff virtually everywhere is an *elected* official. Generally elected officials can do whatever they want (within some level of reason) without any recourse until they next election day.
Basically you're talking about someone with their own budget who can't be "fired" like a normal person could. Though I must admit that this seems like it would be unpopular at the polls. Democrats hate anything weapon related and Republicans while pro-military tend to be very anti-militarization of the local police (plus just anti-government spending in general). Seems like both sides will not be happy with this.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
Violent Crime rates are the lowest they've been for decades: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi...
Yet "Justifiable Homicide" by the police when attacked has almost doubled: http://tacreports.org/storage/...
(i.e. their response is more violent)
While the number of citizens killed by police in general has remained the same despite the reduction in violent crime.
Police murdered while on duty is at a 50yr low, so it's not like they are in some new mortal danger.
https://www.techdirt.com/artic...
Only in the US is law enforcement not called civilians
The police act like a military institution.
Police actions are not held accountable like everyone else where an INDEPENDENT DA decides if wrongdoing has occurred.
An example: Saskatoon(pop ~260k) has a murder rate than NYC(pop ~8.4m).
You seem to be missing a word from this sentence. Might it perhaps be "lower"? Because it's the only one that would be factual.
In 2013, according to the Saskatoon Police Service's crime map, Saskatoon had a total of 4 homicides (Which occurred on January 1, July 11, August 20, and August 30). That's a rate of 1.80/100k (city population is 222k. 260k is the census metropolitan area, which includes bedroom communities, which aren't part of Saskatoon's crime stats)
In 2013, NYC had 333 homicides. That's a rate of 3.96/100k.
I'm fairly sure that 1.8<3.96
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
Nah, this isn't about going to war against citizens. It's about allowing some idiot to use security as an excuse to buy toys. Could be some kind of kickback involved. Someone's nephew needs a job, perhaps.
Everything can be cast in terms of security. Just this week we received a reprimand for letting the grass get too high, and it invoked safety as a reason why everyone should have to mow the grass often. Here are some excerpts from the letter:
"The City ... takes great pride in the health, safety, welfare, and appearance of our community.... Every individual property owner's maintenance contributes to the overall positive appearance of their neighborhood...." The letter states that a Community Image Officer noticed that the property is in violation of the ordinance that states a person may not allow weeds or grass more than twelve (12") tall to accumulate. It concludes with this: "With your help, we can keep our community clean and safe."
We certainly can't allow grass to grow dangerously high!
Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
"I was providing my experience, dick. I didn't say it was true for you or anyone else."
You were being That Guy who, when someone says something, feels it necessary to be a "dick" and say "THE LIGHTBULB WORKS FINE IN MY OFFICE" in response.
"TV showed us all that Gage and DeSoto were responding to medical calls on Emergency! in 1972,"
Did you seriously just cite a TV show?
Please help metamoderate.
an example: Saskatoon(pop ~260k) has a murder rate than NYC(pop ~8.4m).
than what? greater, lesser...
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
Well, since we're going to throw out insults, you're a fucking hoplophobic pussy. Though I do hope you finally manage to stand up to that thirteeen year old girl that's been kicking your pansy ass since she was nine.
when the riots hit LA people were surprised that the rioters stuck to their own neighborhoods and basically trashed their own communities. What nobody mentioned was the reason why. Large numbers of armed police cordoned off the wealthy neighborhoods and kept the looters from spilling over.
It's not so much the ruling class here, as the upper class. Even the upper middle class. Basically, if you're going to abandon the poor the their fate you need to build walls to keep 'em out...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Yep, it's a by product of the military industrial complex that's been propping up our economy since the end of WWII. Since we couldn't have socialism we just built lots of army vehicles. And that means lots of surplus and a heavily militarized police force. I don't think anyone really planned it, it's just one of the twisted distortions from our way of keeping the economy going...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
1.8 heart .96? What does it mean?
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
posting ac because this is off topic
If you had two random variables X and Y that show a strong negative correlation, it makes sense to argue that X does not imply Y, but if there is a third random variable Z that shows no correlation with X and a very strong correlation with Y, could you not argue that a large change in Z drove Y in the opposite direction of X even though there really was a causal relationship between X and Y? I am asking this in the abstract which is why it is off topic. I completely agree with the conclusion that guns do not cause crime (other than suicide), I think lead is the causal factor for violence, but that is not relevant to my statistics question.
Krispy Kreme, Dunkin Donuts, and Tim Horton's take notice! Donuts with frickin' lasers is our only hope.
One of the cities listed as buying is West Lafayette, IN.
This "city" is nothing more than the housing and shops surrounding Purdue University.
According to your logic, university students and staff are uneducated animals?
A few corrupt police departments with apparently too much money in their budgets does not mean the US is a war zone.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
...and if you want to survive, you've gotta know where your towel is.
Enough is enough.
Put clowns like this asshole in the poorhouse before they put you in the morgue.
Which failed war is he referring to?
So they went to Afghanistan for training purposes?
This is the result of the militarization of the police:
http://www.cato.org/raidmap
Citation needed. No, Conservative Party talking points are not a substitute for evidence.
I drive through "Check Points" on major roads and highways in San Diego County staffed by mostly friendly agents who wave me to proceed on my journey. But I am scanned by an array of sensors, maybe as many as fifteen, two miles ahead of the choke point and another array near their location that is kind of intimidating. By the time I get to their station they know more about me than I do! The sites have "Stadium Lighting" at night that is blinding and destroys night vision. There is no "opt out". But I enjoy the attention, thank you for protecting me, I guess....
You're comparing the wrong things. Yes, gun ownership is increasing in the US. Yes, violent crimes are decreasing in the US.
But lets look at how violent crimes are defined in the FBI statistics
My point is that the violent crimes count includes both incidents where firearms were and were not involved.
What is interesting however, is that firearms are increasingly being used in violent crimes.
Dont take my word for it-
In 2010, firearms were used in 67.5 percent of the Nation’s murders, 41.4 percent of robberies, and 20.6 percent of aggravated assaults.
In 2011, firearms were used in 67.7 percent of the nation’s murders, 41.3 percent of robberies, and 21.2 percent of aggravated assaults
In 2012, firearms were used in 69.3 percent of the nation’s murders, 41.0 percent of robberies, and 21.8 percent of aggravated assaults.
Figures for 2013 onwards are not yet available.
I think its correct (as well as common sense) to conclude that making weapons more easily available increased the likelihood it will be used in violent crimes.
which passed a law specifying under what circumstances a citizen might shoot a police officer.
Well, maybe.
Many of the worst and violent crimes are committed by men age 16-24.
Now look at this.
Notice that nice peak in the crime rate around 1992? Many of those crimes were committed by people born in the 60s -- a turbulent, uncertain time, and the 70s -- a rotten decade with a corrupt or weak presidents, increasing unemployment, inflation, and plenty of other rottenness.
I don't think it's too much of a stretch to believe that that sort of environment helps turn some children into violent criminals.
We have in some ways similar situation today. While some groups seem to be enjoying the recovery (baby-boomers, especially) many others are struggling. Young people -- those forming families right now -- have been left behind.
And I expect children being born into that world are having a tough time -- and in 16-24 years, we'll start to see the consequences.
Follow the money. How much were this people paid to buy this surplus vehicles? How much will they be earmarked to receive in commissions in the next few years with the maintenance program? We are used to this shady manoeuvres around here.
Many people have mentioned this, but why ?
I think this article is quite interesting.
http://www.motherjones.com/env...
Does correlation imply causation ?
Absolute statements are never true
Lobbyists from Hell's Hell.
Table-ized A.I.
I think you've misspelled 'United States' in your post, there.
Don't just stand there, get that other dog!
if you stopped taking yourself and this discussion so seriously you may have noticed the whoooooosh sound. Then again if you just came here from shooting range your hearing may be temporarily impaired.
Look at what's going on around you. It's slowly but surely coming away from the realm of Alex Jones and the like but it's obvious that law enforcement is gearing up for something.
There is something that they expect to happen in the near future that makes them think they'll need weapons of war.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
"For me, it's all about officer safety..."
The guy driving isn't even wearing a seat belt!
It means you're a got damned idjit and a shitty comedian.
Check the history of lead in the environment and exposure of children to lead based paints, lead from leaded gasoline, etc. Here's one reference -- Lead in Drinking Water and Human Blood Lead Levels in the United States, http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/pdf/ot.... All that started to go down in the 70's. Reduction in environmental lead has been proposed as a reason crime rates have dropped since then.
That's not even mentioning horrible, multicultural places like Berlin. I fear there's even burning barrels just before the Reichstag.
I really want to see the new Blues Brothers movie that comes from this, where they combine the Illinois Nazi scene with the police chase, all set in Indiana!
Better yet, I want to see Elwood get one of these on police surplus.
You live in Canadia, a fantasy country where everyone is polite and nice. THIS IS REAL CANADA
So, yeah. In 2012 the entire country of Canada recorded 543 homicides. There were 414 in New York City alone. Almost 15,000 in the US as a whole. Ten times the population, but almost 30 times the number of murders.
Violent crime rates have been trending down everywhere in the industrialized world for the last couple of decades, but relative to the other countries in the G8 the good ol' U.S. of A. remains a pretty violent place. As someone pointed out upthread, it's a big, messy cultural problem with no easy answers or solutions.
I got waterboarded by the CIA because of some science fiction I posted on the Internet. It was deleted and my account was banned.
I am constantly monitored for what I post on the Internet now.
Maybe not a war zone yet, but certainly a police state even if crime is low.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Why do you have fat cops? That's one thing I have never understood. Around here all cops have yearly fitness tests. Fail those and you are out, or at least behind some desk somewhere. Officers in bad shape mean they have to use weaponry(including batons, stunguns, OC spray) or overly harsh manouvers to subdue people who resist. I wouldn't respect fat cops. I woudn't feel like they could help me in any situation where I might need a cop.
Sorry, as a non-american It always sounds strange to me that they're still called "Sheriff", it reminds me of western movies every time! Do they make duels when facing a criminal?
It's a typo. 18 loves 69.
Which is hardly ideal, however it's not like that is what anyone wanted. One side would have wanted both options banning, the other wanted neither banning and that's the compromise they ended up with. I agree with the point about pistols though. If there's two almost universal laws of gun crime it's that cities tend to have more shootings and that small form factor weapons are the most popular.
See, this is the attitude. He says his job is to make sure his employees go home every day. He's wrong. While nobody should be reckless with the lives of law enforcement, and it is a great tragedy when the lives of law enforcers are lost in the line of duty, it is their job to protect and to serve the public. It is their job, from time to time, to be injured and/or killed in the act of protecting and serving the community. That is the job. It is voluntary. It is not for the faint of heart, or for the cowardly. It is not, in short, for me.
When the number one priority of law enforcement becomes protecting the life and safety of officers, above all else, then the public suffers. And the lives and safety of citizens have been sacrificed on numerous occasions in the name of protecting law enforcement.
I am not anti law enforcement. But I am deeply concerned about their low tolerance for risk.
Honestly, sitting here in Germany, I wonder what is going on in the US. I've visited the US years ago and my impression was that beside some oddities (e.g., people running around with guns on the street, people telling me that the EU will be the next Roman Empire) the US is a nice place especially when it comes to its inhabitants. Nowadays, most of my information about the US is from the media (including the Internet) and I have the impression that your country is falling apart. First of all, you have a war on anything. In other countries these things are called problems or challenges. Second, your political system is constructed to suppress minority opinion resulting in an immobility of politics. And third, you have lost to solve internal conflicts. Instead you built guarded communities, like in South Africa or other developing countries. You have the highest rate on prison inmates of the world. So please FIX IT. Otherwise your broken country will also break our almost broken countries in the EU. True we have to fix our states too, but at least we are not a war zone (and yes the Ukraine is in Europe, but not part of the EU).
When is the DOT going to step in and stop this? Maximum duty for any road in the US is 12,000 lbs per axle unless you are a Semi tractor trailer, in which case you're allowed 12,000 on the front axle and 34,000 on drive and trailer axles.
This is not a combination vehicle, so it cannot exceed 26,000 gross weight, nor 12,000lbs on any one axle.
It is a violation of federal law for any person to operate this vehicle on any public roadway.
This is your wake-up call.
Scenarios involving the military moving to protect the nation vs hordes of raging zombies is BS. What other scenario could you conceive of to get our boys in uniform to smile and participate in training on how to kill citizens? This is preparation for mass insurrection, all of it. If you let them prep, it will be so easy as to be laughable how quickly your side will crumble.
BRAINS! Are you awake now?
The strongest evidence for the reduction in crime around the entire Western World is that explained by legalised abortion.
http://scholar.google.co.uk/sc...
Anybody in military or law enforcement knows one of the biggest costs of "doing business" is in training personnel and experience is something you can't put a price tag on. ;)
At this price, even small departments could easily justify owning and maintaining one of these vehicles. In the event you DO needs something like this, it provides an extremely high level of protection for a relatively small investment and helps protects your most valuable asset (your people).
And it would look damn cool driving down the street in your cities parade/festival every year as well
Can anyone even drive the thing, or does it take specialized training?
All that's going on here is that the military has some machines built for war, and has decided that selling them is a better move than maintaining them or redeploying. The fact that they sold to Indiana police is, in my mind, one of the best possible end uses of these vehicles. Alternative buyers are allied foreign militaries, which it is my understanding that branches of the milatary sell a lot of old boats and planes to. As far as some peoples concerns about this being a sign that the police are milaterizing, I think those concerns are unwarranted. Police have purchased and used armored vehicles in the past. And the point of doing so, is not to roll a war machine into the back yard of some house party after a noise complaint, but rather to deal with well armed organized criminals, or a group that holes up with arms on a farm or something. You could make the argument that the purchase may have been an unnecessary use of the law enforcement agencies money, but such an argument would require a knowledge of the agencies current work and goals on par with whomever in those agencies decided to make the purchases.
... to take to the donut shop.
America is a war zone... we are fighting for our rights and our identity as a nation.
And sheriff Michael Gayer is our enemy in this war.
If the roads get much worse one of those vehicles will be necessary to get to work.
Actually the SKS has a 10 round capacity, not 5. The SKS is also a popular one for bans because it looks kind of similar to the AK, more so if you have an aftermarket duckbill 30 round clip for it.
Time to offend someone
You just want the coolest toy!
Any place becomes a war zone when you march an army through it.
Esoteric reference.
We need to reverse course on Gun Control and mandate that every Citizen over the age of 14 carry a Government Issued Firearm in one of three calibers
in plain site (on the hip) loaded at all times. Anyone who doesn't have a loaded weapon is cited for failure to carry and fined $25. Ammo and weapon to be provided by the government with each and every firearm being test fired and rifling patterns being recorded for investigatory reasons. Then we can reduce the police forces to a bare minimum as people will be a hell of a lot more polite.
The comments devolved into a gun ownership debate....
More importantly to me, any sheriff that payed for a stupid fucking bomb proof SUV thing and determined to pay for it out of the jail's commissary funds should be voted out of office at the next election. It's a WASTE of money, and a dangerous precident. Cops shouldn't have that sort of gear, if only because I don't want them getting that kind of mindset.
Sheriffs are elected. This guy should be run out of office. Mind you, that would take a populace that gave a shit.
less than half the US population votes. Congress has a 10% approval rating. Yet every congresscritter up for reelection stayed in office. The stupid shit that happens in our country is OUR fault. Everyone loves to blame the government, but it's OUR fault for not paying attention.
High gun ownership is a result of a certain culture around firearms. In many cases they're almost seen a toys. Consequently, gun violence is also caused by the same culture.
They're related, but by virtue of having the same parent rather than a direct link. If you reduce ownership it may somewhat effect opportunistic gun crimes, but dealing with the cultural issues that result in the glorification of "gangsta" lifestyles and gun violence would likely do more.
However, there is something to be said for *ease* of gun ownership and anonymity. In the U.S, it's also much easier to acquire a gun without a strong paper trail. There's a fairly huge grey/black market, which causes firearms to flow from legit owners to criminals. The Scandanavians do have lots of guns, but they're more highly regulated than the USA, and it's generally harder to get one for black-market activity.
The politicians in dc are still a greater threat to freedom.
lose != loose
I wonder if the depleted uranium residue is washed off of the vehicles before shipment. If not, enjoy your radioactive waste exposure.
When you mentioned the UK as an example where gun laws 'worked'. You basically contradicted your own argument. UK is a different country with so many variables being different than the US. The fact (this can be argued) that the laws worked there has no bearing as to whether they would work in the US.
I would just like to point out an obvious observation.
For years, everybody was all concerned about the "militia" going to attack and kill a bunch of people. To date, that has never happened. Every time militia have been involved with anything, their presence has kept the peace or provided enough counter force, that no violence broke out.
The police on the other hand HAVE launched attacks against people that have done nothing wrong, they HAVE used excessive force, and clearly HAVE become the threat that militia and gun owners have warned us all about.
There are countless videos of these events and other evidence. If anybody doubts it, then step up to the plate and show your evidence, because the facts speak for themselves.
Sheriff Doug Cox:. "My job is to make sure my employees go home safe."
Funny, I could have sworn your job was to protect the public. Or is that whole "To Protect and Serve" printed on the side of your cars a bunch of bullshit? Running over citizens with a bazillion ton military vehicle probably won't make them particularly safe.
if they can only afford to fuel and maintain them.
I'm sure if they really want to, they will ask for more budget from their municipalities.
We can only hope that these die out over high operational costs for minimal return.
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
All this talk about college reminds me that there was once a seminary student by the name of Joe Stalin. Beware of all that college education. It turns brains full of mush into brains full of MARXIST mush!
If it is equipped like the military, it IS the military. Oaths are taken and oaths are what separate one part of the public from the other. Consider the Fourteenth Amendment implications of the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act. Retired law enforcement get to carry in all states. The strict scrutiny claim is that there are those who want to dispatch retired law enforcement, thus the law is so narrowly tailored to meet the need.
Godwin!
I'd like to take this man to a real "war zone" just to see his reaction. If he thinks that the couple of little outbreaks that we've had in this country make it a war zone he's got a lot of reality check time due.
But it's a felony if you lie to them.
Of course the US is a war zone.
The Obama administration has got a taste of the power you can have with a heavily armed government over a lightly armed populace. Look for the next DNC President to capitalize on the current weapons spending. Also watch for Brown becoming the next shirt color style.
Pretty much all the first responders act like cops in their Sirly manner while on the job...and this arrogance and meanness permiates the bureaucracy all the way to the White House. Even the janitors wear badges and flaunt their authority. Welcome to the REAL world. When the servant usurps the master, the house falls...
Dear Microlimp: I give you 2 valid product keys for win7 and you reject both of them. Piss off you wankers!!!
So years or reports about fed agencies buying up millions of rounds of ammo doesn't sound so ominous anymore does it?
Muaaaha haaaaaa!
Tracy Johnson
Old fashioned text games hosted below:
http://empire.openmpe.com/
BT
Martial law is slowly taking over. Our government is no longer afraid of its constuants. Cops drive better cars than the people they _________ (feel free to fill in the blank yourself). CEO's pay went up over 8% while workers only went up a little over 1%. R. I. P. middle class.
needs to go to a war zone for a few months.
Violence has been trending down for decades. This dumb ass just get a hard on with driving around in the military vehicle.
Plus he is in Johnson county doing Sheriff duties. Not anything close to a war zone. Using a few stories from the news to claim America is a war zone is so fucking stupid this guy should be fired. Clearly he can not do basic statistics within his field. Someone anyone making purchasing decision should be able to do.
Tell me what crime you deal with the requires this?
http://www.jocosheriff.org/ind... [jocosheriff.org]
AND it's going to be more expensive to maintain, and the police should never use military anything, ever. They are NOT the military. Too many people are loosing touch with what the difference is.
Wrong state, and county. FTW!
Peace Officer how old is that? Justice of the Peace are there any left? MRAP put a plow on it and push snow with it fupid.
More guns sale to US ... ... ... ...
More vigilante militias
More dogma survivalist
More extremist politics
Fewer violent crimes and gun deaths over the past decades in the USA?
I guess, guns with nuts are not a big problem for US law abiding citizens.
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?