Slashdot Mirror
Steve Bannon Suggests Having Too Many Asian Tech CEOs Undermines 'Civic Society' (theverge.com)
In an interview last year with Donald Trump -- that The Washington Post resurfaced yesterday -- Breitbart News Network's executive chairman, Steve Bannon, suggested that there are too many asian CEOs in Silicon Valley. "He alluded to the idea that foreign students should return to their respective countries after attending school in the U.S., instead of sticking around and working at or starting tech companies," writes Ashley Carman via The Verge: Trump voiced concern over these students attending Ivy League schools and then going home: "We have to be careful of that, Steve. You know, we have to keep our talented people in this country," Trump said. When asked if he agreed, Bannon responded: "When two-thirds or three-quarters of the CEOs in Silicon Valley are from South Asia or from Asia, I think [...]" he didn't finish his sentence. "A country is more than an economy. We're a civic society." While Bannon didn't explicitly say anything against immigrants, he seemed to hint at the idea of a white nationalist identity with the phrase "civic society." The Huffington Post makes note of a May 2015 study in its report, which "found that 27 percent of professionals working in Silicon Valley companies were Asian or Asian-American. They represented less than 19 percent of managers and under 14 percent of executives, according to the report."
I think by Asian he meant Indian as well. What are the numbers if you include Indians?
It'll be interesting to see the alt-right portion of the slashdot crowd defend this racist scumbag.
By interesting, I mean embarrassing to humanity.
So according to Steven Bannon we can't have a "civic society" in America if there are areas whose population aren't a majority of whites. I expected a more sophisticated racist euphemism from a Harvard-educated man.
Trump has dumped his press pool twice in the past week. He is really in a no-win situation here; if he lets the press in they might say things he doesn't like, but if he doesn't then people might stop paying attention to him.
How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
Don't we want the best and brightest from around the world to work here, to our advantage, rather than their home countries?
Required reading for internet skeptics
In what world does "civic society" equate to "white nationalist identity?" There's a dozen things I could honestly take from this quote, and I could do without its really heavy baiting to control where I'm going with my interpretations.
I get that Bannon isn't likable or something. I don't want to dispute anything about him either way. I just want data without the entire heavy-leaning interpretation of hand-wavy words. He's clearly wrong about his numbers. Can we focus on that? Do we have to label him "white nationalist" with all but coming out and saying that? Is that helpful? Pretend he's an actual white supremacist and proud of it. Can we not criticize his points on their own, like actual discourse requires? If he and his words are simply not worth talking about, this is not how to go about that.
Good lord there's so much to actually criticize out there and we're just framing every damn thing in tribalistic nonsense. (Before it gets assumed, no, I don't think this is limited to one "party" or whatever. It's common in every sensationalist nonsense "journalism" organization.)
This forum Sig is licensed under the LGPL.
Dear people mad that "Asians" or whatever are running the tech companies...
The obvious answer is "make more college graduates."
Many state schools are turning to foreign nationals to pay out-of-state tuition to fund operating costs because their state has cut funding.
So step 1 is... restore state funding to colleges, and you can get rid of some foreign students that whoever you want in roles won't have to compete with!
Step 2 is... tell your constituents that college isnt a "liberal elite conspiracy," so they'll actually attend.
Step 3 is... fund the ones that can't afford it. If some dude/dudette whose parents lost their manufacturing job to a robot has the talent, he should be there, gaining skills for America! Quit viewing college funds as a "handout" and look at it as an investment in America's workforce.
That's pretty much it. You'll reduce the number of whoever you don't like in tech companies by a small amount, by making the people you do want in them more capable of competing.
I'm pretty sure even the Asians you're mad at will be cool with that.
While it doesn't exactly seem to have a very positive connotation, there's also not much of a negative one. It's definitely not what the widespread quote has been.
Definition of a civic society (since I had to look it up):
I'm clearly missing the problem here? He has the wrong statistic (literally the opposite quantity), but what part of his statement doesn't make sense? A country should probably be a civic society, by that definition, to preserve its own self-interests. I also agree that with the other statement that we should look to retain their best and simply block their worst. Why effectively use our institution's tax dollars to train a foreign power's workers?
We've made an investment in these people. We should be doing everything we can to keep them here. Let's start stapling green cards to STEM degrees from accredited universities.
No. According to the person posting the article's interpretation of what he didn't say, but may have meant.
This isn't news. This isn't even gossip. It's just bullshit.
It was to have dinner where pictures show his family present and the secret service. Who gives a crap?
I don't remember seeing dinner coverage of President-Elects Bush or Obama. And Obama consistently dumps the press pool on his golf outings, without any complaints of a "loss of transparency".
Frankly, the media is showing an awful bias here. Throwing a fit over missing a dinner? Is that seriously what it comes down too? It's clear that they hate him -- it already was before he was elected and nominated -- but they're losing serious viewers with this bogus "news" broadcasting. This kind of bias is the turmoil that is causing the riots in major cities and the lack of honest reporting on those "peaceful" protests (shown to be the complete opposite given shootings and property damage) while protesters are bussed into cities en masse reeks of incompetency and stupidity.
If the major media outlets wonder why people have lost faith in them: this crap is it. At least try show balanced coverage. Though given all of the coercion shown in the WikiLeaks between the Clinton campaign and the media, I won't hold my breath to see it happen.
Yeah. This guy makes Donald Trump look like Ellen Degeneris.
So yes, and I gather from context that the "Live" here is the concern. Work here is important too, but if the talent stays for a couple years and moves home to India, or China, or South Korea (etc..) with their fortune has our society received as much benefit from the arrangement? Cherry picking context for some for of "ism" or "obia" has become so old that I am simply ignoring MSM. Boycott is your only leverage to change this shit from the media oligarchs who are pissed that their crony lost.
6% trust rating my ass, Huffpo has gone into negative range along with those other stations which I won't even mention.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Dude that comment was completely racist. How do Asians undermine civic society? Are they out committing crimes?
>A country is more than an economy. We're a civic society.
It means exactly that. There's more to a country than money and business. There's a culture that should be respected and protected. Sitting back quietly while a major national industry is overtaken by people from different cultures who only came to America to go to school and get rich and may or may not have any intention of assimilating is hardly protecting our culture.
That's not racism or "white nationalism", it's the whole fucking point of having a country and has been for 3000 years.
We apologize again for the fault in the Cabinet assignments. Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked have been sacked.
Have gnu, will travel.
...and he said this during the campaign ... and if everyone knew about it... unfortunately, Trump would have still beat sorry ass Hillary Clinton.
America's culture is that it's a melting pot of cultures. Always has been and always will be. You respect and protect that by allowing other cultures to continue to immigrate and contribute to that culture.
And what happens when you put things into a "melting pot"? They blend together and homogenize.
Having subsets of society populated by immigrants who haven't changed a thing about their beliefs or ways of life since they hopped on the boat in Whereverstan isn't being part of a 'melting pot'.
That is what they teach in public school, but it isn't accurate. America is not really a melting pot and never has been. Makes a nice bedtime story though.
I'm only half Asian, and it's the south kind. So pray I'm ok.
Err, except...my mum grew up speaking Chinese as a kid. Crap!
Mr Bannon I your rules unclear. Am I human or not?
Well sure, if you leave out the parts about race how can it be rascist?
What is the problem with having Asian CEOs? Why does he leave that sentence unfinished? What would finish that sentence that isnt rascist? When he is asked about trying to keep foreign talent how does making obviously exadurated claims in regards to Asian CEO numbers in Silicon Valley, then stopping mid sentence, and then talking about maintaining civil society not sound suspiciously rascist to anyone?
Again, how are the Asians a threat to Civil Society?
I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
I think if you're an immigrant from "whereverstan" and land ashore on one of these boats you've mentioned, learn the local language, get selected to attend the top schools, get hired by the best companies and end up running the companies, you've assimilated pretty f*cking well.
Take your racism somewhere else.
Not CIVIL society. CIVIC society. Fuck, people are so stupid here.
Anyone who has lived in NYC or the Bay Area believes otherwise, myself included. There are certainly lots of areas within the USA that aren't nearly as diverse but since this article is about the Bay Area's "civic society" it applies.
They were talking about people from other countries coming here, and that our education isn't providing enough talent. Are you angry at Obama's STEM emphasis for affirming that same thing?
He meant to say "civil society", but was too drunk and coked up to get it right.
I don't think we need to worry about Bannon. He looks like he's one rail away from joining Andrew Breitbart in Hell.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cr...
http://img.wonkette.com/wp-con...
You are welcome on my lawn.
Not true. I have lived in NYC and in Washington DC and although they are "diverse", there is no melting. In general, things are segregated, especially with recent immigrants.
'of or relating to the duties of the people to their local area'
what's the problem? They were discussing foreigners coming here and getting education and being the leaders in industry when our own school systems should do better.
Heard of STEM that Obama administration pushes, same philosophy...really.
Yet SJW's whine about "cultural appropriation" all the time. How can it be a melting pot is "cultural appropriation" is evil?
Could someone help this poor immigrant out? Are racial quotas a bad thing now? Just a few months ago, I was told, it is a very good and useful thing, but TFA seems to frown on it...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
The problem is that people get outraged easily and stupidly led by whomever is outraged the most.
I lived in queens and would regularly hear 4-5 unique languages on my way to the subway - so the individual cultures there are certainly not segregated in a physical sense. As for segregated in a larger societal sense, diverse doesn't mean they all have to be going out to dinner together or marching in each other's parades. But they have accepted the basic precepts of American life and culture, and each of their culture's presence has influenced the others, sometimes in obvious ways and sometimes more subtly.
This is really what some of us are talking about. Immigrants used to come to America and assimilate into the culture (my ancestors included). What we have in many cases today are people coming here and not assimilating, simply continuing to live as they did in their native countries creating these pockets of culture that are in many cases incompatible with American culture. Slow the influx of people, vet for people who want to be a productive part of our society, and help them assimilate.
Nice anecdote, but diversity and "melting" are two separate concepts. For example Americas schools are more segregated than they have ever been. In any city there are large sections where whites mostly live, blacks mostly live, Asians mostly live. It is even more segregated with first generation immigrants. They tend to cluster together with other immigrants from their country/region, which makes sense. The idea of a melting pot is just public school lipservice.
That's just not true in all areas and even though it's true in others it doesn't mean the segregated cultures aren't influencing each other and melding. TV and the Internet changed that. How many white kids listening to gangster rap live in Compton, CA?
those crazy high college costs. Turns out companies bring them over here and pay for schooling so they can have them work as "interns" (there are no quotes big enough for the preceding). Far from subsidizing my kid's education they're so profitable that they're squeezing her out. She'll need a 4.0 just to get into her year 3 classes. That's not grade inflation either. Kids are retaking classes they get Bs in to maintain that 4.0.
Either that or fund schools enough that you can finish them with a C average. But right now there's not enough space in the 300 level courses for Americans. Sorry, but send them back. Bernie & Hilary lost so that's the best I can hope for...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
I'm with Trump, not Bannon, on this one. If more of the Asians we educate at Stanford and MIT would stay and become a counterforce to the anti-science liberal culture that infests academia, we in particular, as nerds, would be better off. Our position in science compared to Asian countries would improve. We would still have a long way to go before we competed with them in applications, but we would have a better chance of getting there.
but I'm mostly seeing code monkeys. Meanwhile companies don't train anymore. Ever. I've watched every company I know fire their training departments and slash funding to pay for certifications. Ten years ago an ex-coworker of mine got $10k in Salesforce training that he took on company time. Me today? Not so much.
We can send the H1-Bs back and train Americans in 6 months to do their jobs. We don't want to. Trump got into office on the promise of doing that. Bannon is making motions to do that.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
By "antiscience" you mean "accepts what actual scientists say."
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
When we're talking H1-Bs coming here taking entry level or just above entry level code monkey jobs that companies used to train Americans to do. Every tech worker on this forum has lost at least $30k/yr to wage depression from the H1-B program. My life is worse than my parents and my kinds life will be worse than mine. She'll graduate into a $50/$60/k yr job with $30k debt. Fuck that.
It's not racism, it's protectionism. My attitude is this: Don't come to my Country and drive down wages and make my life shit. Go make your country not a hell hole.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
I'm getting the feeling you have no idea what "fascist" means.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Given Sundar Pichai is Google's CEO ...
Seems to me this is just Breitbart trying to muddy the waters as Google is taking a stand against 'fake news' and twitter is banning the alt-right.
If Breitbart can claim victim status perhaps they can get around Google (and thereby Facebook et.al.) from classifying them as 'fake news'.
By being incendiary about Asian (that's Indian in British parlance) CEOs then can later claim that Google banning them (Breitbart) is personal.
While I probably don't agree that Breitbart is 'fake' they are certainly walking the line and occasionally stepping over. Breitbart is unabashedly biased and incendiary and some opinions and commentary seems to not be shy of using 'post-fact' rhetoric.
diversity doesn't work because people are people. We're not as different as we like to tell ourselves. The only difference is how hard you can work someone based on how desperate their upbringing was.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
I'm not sure white kids listening to gangster rap is what is meant by "a melting pot". But I guess you are a shallow person.
Even Mother Jones poo-poos the racist claims and has picture of his staff of nine with women and a black dude....yeah he must really be a racist only having one not two
We will be seeing this sort of post 2-4 times a day on Slashdot for the next 4 years. Every little thing imagined or real incident will be conveniently spammed non stop. Trump eats a taco...we'll see it on Slashdot instead of a useful tech article.
What legit racists in power look like.
When one resorts to personal insults then the debate has been lost and with that I graciously accept your concession.
The dude on CNN tried his best to say with a straight face how the American people NEED to know "how long the dinner was, where he went, what time it was until, etc"
It's hard to believe that piece of shit network is still on television.
over on another forum, the headline is outrage that Trump went to posh restaurant and told everyone he'd lower their taxes.
oh my god, he had the nerve to repeat his very platform of lower taxes to the kind of people who frequent nice restaurant...clearly he loves the 1%!!
Have Clinton and Obama come out and told these hooligans that are rioting to knock it off? Last I heard, there was nothing but silence from them, which seems to imply consent. That the media isn't demanding this out of them is just more evidence that the collusion between the current admin and the press demonstrated by wikileaks continues.
Has George Soros started one of his pathetic color revolutions in the US now? I hear he's picked purple for this year's fashion. In an honest government, he'd be arrested for sedition and terrorism. Goes to show you the morals of Obama and crew. Maybe the next administration will man up and arrest that treasonous piece of filth. Perhaps even extradite him to Russia.
and I'll defend him. His comments were surprisingly low key. And we of the left wing ignore & dismiss him at our peril. As a member of the working class trying to get a kid through college and seeing 70-80% of tech workers here on H1-B visas I want this addressed. There's no easy way to do it without talking about where those workers are coming from. He didn't just say Asia, he said "South Asia". He means India. If you and others like you dismiss him as a bigot you'll get more nasty surprises at the ballot box as folks like me give up on liberal socialism that feels like lip service and turn to guys like Trump to protect our jobs. Again, nothing to do with racism, everything to do with money.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
So here I am in the USA, my UK family company boiught out by a US company, and given a working visa. So far we are employing another 4 or so guys directly, and probably another 3 indirectly as a result of the acquisition of my IP and my skills.
And I am a REDUCING opportunity to "our own citizens" How, exactly ?
By "accepts what actual scientists say" you mean "accepts what scientists who we agree with say".
I loved his request to postpone his trial on Trump U until after inauguration, saying he has a lot to do between now and January. What does he think he will be doing when he is officially President? does he think it will be easier going and that he would have more time?
I'm in one of those departments, and havent been told anything like that (perhaps they dont share that with low level folks). All we have been told is to wait until we are contacted by the trump transition team and then inform upper management.
I'd rather not have honor killings and mass rape attacks "contributed"
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
My grandfather still had a noticeable accent and identifying cultural traits over 100 years after his grand father moved to this country. He was white. They moved to a part of the US popular with people who came from the same place. Just like other immigrants tend to do. Over time, they adopted the language, dialects, and some of the traditions of other immigrant populations. There wasn't and isn't some base culture that they all assimilated into. The common cultural elements changed over time and there have always been sub cultures.
A melting pot doesn't mean that everything thrown in turns into what was already there.
5 Most Absurd Ways the Left Has Responded to the 2016 Election.
The Left has packed an awful lot of crazy into the days since Donald Trump defeated Hillary Clinton in the presidential election. (Should there have been a trigger warning in front of that sentence?)
Here are the top five in no particular order. Wait, strike that — let’s say one of the middle ones is the very top example of liberal lunacy, either Three or Four, take your pick, and the one listed first is the least important of the five, in order to keep the crazy theme going. Also, be prepared for ALL CAPS to erupt in the following post at any moment.
1. Cry-Ins: They really did hold a “cry-in” at Cornell University. They got together and wept in the quad, sobbing about how “terrifying” Trump’s victory was. They scrawled their heartbreak upon the pavement with colored chalk. There was shock and awwwww.
Adults, presumably including some faculty members, appeared on the scene, but strangely none of them told the kids to grow up, which really should enrage the university’s alumni and donors. The Wall Street Journal said school staff were “providing tissues and hot chocolate” to the emotional exhibitionists. It’s not good at all when absurdly expensive institutions of higher learning churn out students who can’t deal with the results of an election, and it is very much the fault of liberal-dominated academia that it’s come to this. They did it on purpose, as part of the great liberal project to make childhood a permanent condition.
It’s also alarming that they invest so much of their personal value and spiritual energy into politics. One adult on the scene, who looked like a professor to the Cornell Sun’s reporters, said the cry-in was “an indication that there are many many people who are suffering and feel that haven’t been heard and they believe that Trump will answer their needs.” If you’re waiting for any politician to “answer your needs,” YOU’RE WHAT’S WRONG WITH AMERICA, KIDS. (I warned you about the caps.)
Columnist Mark Steyn offered an interesting observation about the”special snowflake meltdown”: their “knowledge of history is so scant that hitherto they had no idea America wasn’t a one-party state and that once every decade or so the other guy gets to win.” That’s funny, but it’s also alarming. It’s very unhealthy to not only assume political victories are permanent, but to become so convinced your ideology has a lock on power that you’re emotionally incapable of dealing with the discovery you were wrong.
2. Therapy Dogs: “Pettable pooches” were trotted out to schoolchildren in New York, as the New York Post reported. This is, once again, sending all the wrong signals about the nature of elections and responsible citizenship.
Also, a letter from school administrators admitted that the faculty had backed Clinton, and “our students brought a great deal of emotion, anxiety, and strong feelings” to the election results. Are we allowed to ask how much of that load of emotion and anxiety was deposited in the minds of students by their political-activist teachers?
Therapy dogs weren’t just for small children. They were brought in to comfort university students and (more-or-less) grown-up Democratic staffers on Capitol Hill, too. At least some of them have the excuse that they may lose their jobs, because their bosses were defeated in the election. Then again, everyone who goes to work for an elected representative should be prepared for the possibility they won’t be re-elected.
3. Safety Pins: Safety pins swiftly became the new badge of aggrieved loser status, accompanied by the kind of social-media hashtag campaign the Obama Administration would occasionally substitute for foreign policy.
Safety pins are supposed to identify the wearer as an island of safety and to
Finally, a legit criticism of Bannon.
I'm with you on that. It's been said that "once a Goldman Sachs man, always a Goldman Sachs man". Not sure if it's true with Bannon, but keep an eye on things he says or does that might benefit them.
because that's the question that gets asked everytime we talk about free or cheap college anymore. 66% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck (e.g. don't have $400 to their name). That's a _lot_ of folks who can't afford it.
People don't skip college because it's a liberal elite conspiracy. They skip college for money. Unless you can get Americans to suck down the taxes (in the face of declining wages) that's not gonna change.
Here's another option. Ever wonder how people from 2nd world countries can afford out of state tuition? Companies are paying it for them so they can work 'em to death as interns while they're in 'school' as 'interns'. You bring guys and gals in their 20s who've already been trained here and they work for you for peanuts. The cost of education is less than you woulda paid an American.
Shut that scam down for a start. Shut the whole H1-B program down and make companies _train_ again. We've got other visa programs for the Geniuses. We don't need more code monkeys, and Americans can do math just fine if we don't abandon our public schools.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Come to my neighbourhood then. Most of the people living here are first generation immigrants from China, Taiwan or India. I also am an immigrant.
I think that immigrants in this neighbourhood outnumber native-born Americans about 5 to 1.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Nope, I mean "accepts what scientists say." That you can find at least one or two researchers in any field who promote wingnut views doesn't mean those views aren't pure wingnuttery.
In my area of interests, Proto-Indo-European studies, there are a small group of linguists, primarily Indian nationalists, who insist India is the Urheimat of the Proto-Indo-European languages. The overwhelming majority of PIE researchers view this for what it is, politically motivated rubbish, and point to Pontic-Caspian Steppe as the most likely original homeland of the Indo-European speakers, pointing to the fact that the Baltic and Slavic (sometimes grouped together as the Balto-Slavic languages) as possessing far more PIE primitives than virtually any other family of languages with the possible exception of the extinct Anatolian subfamily.
The point of that long aside is to show you that you will find in any field of research a small number of people who for various reasons, some honest and sincere, some absurd and dishonorable, who ride against the consensus. And so it is with climatology. You have a very small number of climatologists (and a much smaller number of active and publishing researchers) who claim AGW is overstated or false, but the overwhelming majority assert that those very small number of contrarians are wrong, and in some cases, clearly intentionally distorting legitimate research and data to make AGW seem overstated. It doesn't help that some of these contrarians, like Frank Spencer, are basically on anti-AGW political thinktank payrolls, raising serious ethical questions about their motivations for writing anti-AGW screeds (not to mention these very few individuals, like their Creationist counterparts in biology, almost never publish any papers that lay out their great destructive critiques of AGW).
My view is that you just don't want to hear bad news, so you've decided that the overwhelming number of researchers in areas related to climatology are liars, and because you're of an childish and cowardly temperment, literallly a delicate little snowflake, you only want to hear from that tiniest fraction of the research community who promotes claims you are emotionally equipped to deal with.
At the end of the day, of course, the universe doesn't fucking care about your tender snowflake feelings. CO2 has the properties it has, and increasing even fractional percentages of overall CO2 in the atmosphere will inevitably lead to more heat being trapped. I do pity your fragile snowflake ego, though. I understand that your mommy and daddy never really explained to you that reality doesn't owe even the tiniest favor.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
If Steve Bannon says having too many Asian tech CEOs undermines 'Civic Society', he must clearly be in favor of them.
After all, everything Steve Bannon does is about destroying civil society (and then whatever is left of it).
So, what you're saying is that Trump wants to keep smart immigrants in the country?
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if Bannon is out soon. I'm getting this feeling, and I don't know whether it's good or bad, that Trump is getting rid of all the undesirable people he needed to get where he was. Bannon may bring the alt-right, but maybe Trump, having got them to vote for him, isn't terribly interested in keeping a pack of nasty white supremacists in his corner. At any rate, I have a hard time believing that Kushner, who does seem to be running the show, would have much love for an anti-Semite like Bannon.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
One of my great-grandfathers grew up in a German-speaking Mennonite community in Ontario in the late 19th century. There were all kinds of distaff Pennsylvania Dutch communities throughout eastern North America who still primarily spoke German and Eastern European languages, and some, like the Amish, still prosper today. But when my great-grandfather left home to find work, he had to learn to speak and read English far better than he had as a child, and in the end, so I'm told, the German accent wasn't terribly perceptible.
My grandfather on my dad's side grew up in an area of British Columbia with a large population (for the region in the early 20th century) of Swedes and Norwegians, and all his sisters married Swedes, accept for his youngest, who married a Norwegian. Family reunions when I kid were fun, with lots of Olafs and Svens, and even a Thor, in attendance. So far as I remember, all the husbands were actually born in Scandinavia, and still had fairly thick accents.
But their grandkids, who I chummed around with when I visited when I was a kid, didn't know any Scandinavian language (except swear words, somehow those get passed on). Even their parents, second generation, knew very little, having to make their way in the English-speaking world.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
The idea of a melting pot is just public school lipservice.
I must have missed the quotes and diversity requirements in various segments of society. There are laws that force a 'melting pot'. It is much more literal than you say.
Good.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Oh God, I made a typo! I'm so glad someone as not stupid as you was here to point it out. Your outrage over a typo that really doesnt effect the conversation as one can certainly substitute the correct word in surely proves your non-stupidity. Naming calling is certainly another sure sign of your higher intelligence as everyone knows that someone who pitches a fit and starts name calling over a typo is certainly of a higher intellect. It sure is great that all of us stupids have you around to tell us what's what.
Or maybe you should troll elsewhere.
I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
I'll take it one step further and suggest that "assimilation" is an anti-American concept. Though in reality we have a checkered history when it comes to this, we regard "religious freedom" as an American tenet. People established colonies here precisely because they didn't want to be assimilated into the cultures of where they came from. We are also one of the few countries that does not have an official language. That's not an oversight.
Given that religious values and language are intimately tied to culture, it's not at all a stretch to say that a diversity of cultures is baked into the fabric of America. What you've described as some new phenomena is what's being going on since the beginning.
Even among whites in the US there are regional dialects and cultural traditions that can be traced back to other countries, - Louisiana Creole for example. Then there's perhaps the best example, the Amish, who've doggedly resisted any sort of assimilation.
You can make the argument that the Amish should take on the values of the larger society but my point is that not "assimilating" is nothing new. And to the extent that melting does occur, it can take generations and is never really complete or uniform.
I find it ironic that some people want to turn the US into the kind of countries that our ancestors deliberately left.
Wow, way to change the topic from the race issue. Yes they were certainly talking foreign talent domestically educated staying here. I certainly never suggested otherwise.
Why don't you reread my post and then respond to my actual questions and points.
I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
And I suspect that this is how it will go with the more recent immigrant populations. The kids (and grand-kids to a lessor extent) may retain some of the cultural traditions but will be products of the larger society and for the most part will have adopted its values. However, some may be more determined to maintain their cultural heritage and language than others. It's nothing new and it's been part of the American landscape since the beginning.
...so to speak. But I will contribute to that society. I will hopefully at least make an effort to learn the language, because I think I will have a better experience if I do.
When I retire I haven't ruled out becoming an expat and moving somewhere in Central America. Now, that's not quite the same as moving someplace as a young person with the intent of having my decendents grow up there. I will likely go to a region where there a plenty of other non-natives around. I think that's just the natural thing to do. I'd probably be able to get by just fine without ever learning the local language. I'd probably always consider myself an American more than belonging to wherever I end up. I think the older you are, the harder it is to change your identity,
Personally, I don't expect immigrants to "assimilate". I expect them to obey the laws, -which may mean that the have to abandon some practices that were common in their countries. I expect them to pay taxes. I feel blessed if I can enjoy their food and music.
I want to hug you right now.
You mean the rich chinese who bought up all the houses in Vancouver, BC and they all sit there empty?
I hate to tell ya buddy, but it was always that way. Why do you think there are entire neighborhoods of ethnics in places like Chicago and New York? Every immigrant is going to want to be in a place where they can be around their home comforts. You think Americans don't want to also go into a place where there are other like them if they are in Europe? It takes two generations before the assimilation really happens.
I would like to see a phase out of the H1B, provided that we see more schools having STEM curriculum and we are adding more tech workers to the economy here.
The Founding Fathers insistence on the president being a “natural born citizens” was based on a fear that foreigners may be disloyal.
Aiming to have more leaders (in government and companies) that are natural born citizens to maintain "civic society" loyal to the country is not necessarily unreasonable.
Which is doing a hell of a lot better than some whites here. Ie, those who will bitch about seeing Mexican flags on autos and wondering why they won't assimilate, while at the same time flying the confederate flag and claiming it's just cultural heritage.
Fuck your melting pot. No one melts anymore. They float like fatty turds to the top and demand special status and recognition. Integration into society is lost on them.
Asians are the last remaining group of immigrants who generally work hard and try to integrate into American society while still maintaining their roots. THAT is why they get ignored and shat on by the media and politicians - they're basically Uncle Toms because they don't serve to drive the narrative they want to push.
They want to push a divisive narrative on race (and sex, and everything else) because it keeps retards like you busy fighting a made up us-vs-them political war while they lie, cheat, and steal the economy and the government out from under you.
""He alluded to the idea that foreign students should return to their respective countries after attending school in the U.S., instead of sticking around and working at or starting tech companies," ...or winning Nobel prices for the US.
What happened? Did you have an accident, or was it orchitis?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
> When multiple cultures co-exist in the same nation, the self-interest of each group clashes with the self-interest of the others.
Oh puhlease. That's true of any group, ethnic identity is just one way to draw the lines. Go to any ethnically homogenous society and you get the same thing, just the lines are drawn differently. Like catholics versus protestants in ireland. Or dalits versus brahmin in india.
I've lived in a multiethnic state where white people were neither a majority nor even the largest minority. And we get along tons better than any other state in the union. On the playground at school we used to brag about who was the most mixed race. Its taken as a given that mixed kids are the cutest. Its not perfect, because perfection is impossible. We have conflict because humans have conflicts and some groups have received the shorter end of the stick. But the lack of a single dominant ethnic group goes a long, long way to reducing tensions.
So I'm calling bullshit on your beliefs. I've lived the reality, and not only does that shit work, its works better than majority white states.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Having too many wife beating nazis in positions of authority undermines 'civic authority'.
I think if you're an immigrant from "whereverstan" and land ashore on one of these boats you've mentioned, learn the local language, get selected to attend the top schools, get hired by the best companies and end up running the companies, you've assimilated pretty f*cking well.
Absolutely. When your country attracts immigrants, especially economic immigrants, it benefits the whole of society. Not least because those are the ones that have the ambition, foresight and energy to go for the better opportunities rather than just being satisfied that tomorrow is going to be not much worse than today. Of course, the country that receives immigrants will also have a proportion of people, who are unambitious - and they may well feel that all the new, ambitious people are too "uppity". But is that the fault of the immigrants?
A "melting pot" is a tossed salad. Sure, the tomatoes are touching lettuce, but they are still 100% tomatoes. Sometimes the tomatoes end up clumping together, but it's still a salad.
Learn to love Alaska
Conservative America wouldn't "throw down". 99% of them are in love with Leave it to Beaver, and have no stomach for what the alt-right claims Conservative Americans stand for. They just want a simpler time when it was easy for a college-educated white man to hold a single job and provide for a family as the sole bread winner. They don't want the racism, sexism, and everything else, but would tolerate it if required to get the dream back.
Turn it into a civil war and 99% of the conservatives will back off. Sure, the 1% left would bring it like the gun-toting craze people they are, but nothing turns a Conservative military person Liberal like having to deal with VA, then watching the "pro-military conservatives" cut funding, yet again. The currently serving cops and military may be conservative, but many ex-military (still with guns and such) have "turned" liberal. I think the conservatives would expect an easy time of it, and would have their ass handed to them.
Learn to love Alaska
Aaah right, gotta get the terminology right. If a democrat is president or white people are doing it then it's patriotic protest, but if black people do it or a republican is president then it's 'hooligan's rioting'.
Just like when a muslim crashes a plane on purpose it's 'terrorism' but when a white guy crashes a plane on purpose it's 'mental illness'. | I don't recall a single MSM headline that called the German pilot who deliberately flew a plane into a mountain 2 years ago a terrorist - even though he clearly was.
Or how if a white guy walks into a restaurant with a loaded AR-15 with the safety off it's "open carry" but if a black man does the same it's "armed and dangerous" and soon to be "shot by police" (and as recent history shows -the 'black man' need not be a man 'ten your old boy' will do, and the 'gun' doesn't even have to be real, a toy gun, or even an imaginary gun, will do just as well.
Or how, when a black president does not attribute the behaviour of a small number of assholes to an entire religion he is 'too wimpy to say "radical islamic terrorism"' but when the FBI publishes a study that finds 'rightwing white militias are the number one greatest threat to American national security' the republicans in congress actively suppress publication of the report and that's NOT considered a cover-up ?
At least TRY to pretend you are not maintaining a double standard.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
I never thought i'd live to see the day where racism and xenophobia are not only supported but *gasp* celebrated by a majority. The scary thing is how well euphemisms like "civic society" seem to work on a lot of people.
I mean, Trump appointed the chairman of fucking Breitbart as his chief strategist. Whiskey tango foxtrot?!
And what happens when you put things into a "melting pot"? They blend together and homogenize.
And dilute the master race?
>That's not racism or "white nationalism", it's the whole fucking point of having a country and has been for 3000 years.
Appeal to tradition fallacy - not to mention a rather disingenious argument because, if that's really true, then why the fuck BOTHER to have countries anymore ? Cultures can exist without them - and many cultures exist in several countries or none. So clearly they aren't actually useful for the job - and all the resources we waste on having countries could instead be spent on actually protecting cultures, which raises the question of whether we ought to be doing THAT ? And if so - why we shouldn't focus most of our energy on cultures that are far more endangered than American culture - particularly those which American culture displaced in the first place ?
I assume of course you are consistent in your views and if the Cherokee people (for example) demanded their ancestral land back to build a new Cherokee country governed by and for the protection of their culture - you would defend their claim ?
Why should they allow a bunch of a European immigrants to keep displacing them and literally rule their country ?
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Oh no, if you have ANY part of your heritage left, if you even remember what you country your ancestors came from - then you haven't 'assimilated'... you have to be like a white American and ONLY like a white American to count. You can't also have a Japanese heritage you keep alive, or an Indian one or an Indonesian one.
Oddly, when recent European immigrants (especially Western European ones) keep THEIR herritage alive - that gets celebrated, and in fact, Americans adopt parts of their culture INTO the melting pot.
Weird how when the Irish brought St. Patricks Day and Halloween America as a whole adopted those.
The melting pot used to be a two-way exchange, but now apparently it's meant to be a one-way white supremacist domination.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
While you join up for your free trial, you may be capable of X-Ripped receive more records approximately the special applications available. each bundle consists of weekly conferences together with your counselor, and assist with putting in a customized, healthy menu. the biggest difference inside the applications is how long you plan on following the program. your weight loss dreams, mixed together with your food plan and exercising plan, will determine how lengthy you need to live with the program. http://musclegainfast.com/x-ri...
Unfortunately, when you look at the people who've graduated from Harvard Business School, it really appears as if their admissions standards needs re-evaluating. Their only criteria seems to be is if they think the candidate has a good chance of being "successful" later in life. Since the number one predictor (in the U.S. at least) of success isn't intelligence or diligence or "talent" but rather how successful (or rich) your dad was, they've let in some sorry characters. I believe George "Gentleman's 'C'" Bush is one of them. And, of course, once you're in and paying $50,000 a year, you're likely not to be kicked out. (It's not the Law or Medical School, cash is king).
At least character estimation is an important consideration when admitting students as undergraduates into Harvard College (I'm an interviewer, that's my job). We're supposed to look for people who "you'd like to have as your roommate" (it's the Turing test for personality :). Of course, Harvard does have its issues with "legacy" candidates and they do tend to give the children of extremely prominent people a closer look (like the Obama's kids) but they are certainly not fixated on one metric (like grades or SAT scores).
You've gotta be kidding right? "Anti-science" liberal culture? Being a scientist (just performed the first nanopore DNA sequencing in Vietnam!) who graduated from the top liberal arts school in the world (it always ranks number one or two, sorry Stanford!), let me tell you that our culture is far far from anti-science. For example our university has the most Nobel prize winners in the world. (Speaking of which, so how many Nobel laureates supported Trump again?).
(I also studied Architecture while a graduate and took a fair amount of general design courses so I certainly think I qualify as being in touch with my touchy-feely liberal side). Anyway, even the quickest most cursory (that means brief by the way) search would show that there is an extremely high correlation between scientists and in general well educated people being liberal. Unfortunately, you don't sound like either
I'll take it one step further and suggest that "assimilation" is an anti-American concept.
Generations of immigrants who didn't even teach their children their language because they wanted them to sound more American suggests otherwise. People used to be proud to become American. Now, not so much. Forcing assimilation is unamerican. But choosing to assimilate is very much an American value.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
My US Grandpa worked at Grumman Aircraft and helped building the Lunar Lander.
My US Great Grand Aunt was a Secretary of President Roosevelt.
My dad worked with NASA.
As a kid and teenager I was a very very proud american citizen, even though I lived abroad most of my life (I'm German now, for reasons unrelated to this post)
When my mom and my dad were in the US in Texas in the early '70ies , my mom worked the night-shift at a diner near Houston. During the day she would work part-time protocolling the radio transmitions of the Apollo missions, a job she had gotten through the contact of my dad, who was working at NASA at the time. We had a house in Clear-Lake-City, the engineers city Houston had build for the NASA employees.
There were two incidents she told me about a few times:
Once she was working the late shift at the Diner again and a bunch of men came in, and started asked my mom if she knew of some German lady working somewhere in a Diner not wearing a bra. It was a shock to my mom that some unknow group of men had gone out for a ride to come look for her because someone had spread the work *that she wasn't wearing a bra*. My mom speaks accent free english and said she'd never heard of anything like that. Please note: Not wearing a bra was perfectly normal in most parts of the western world in the 60ies and 70ies, but in totally backwards rural Texas it was considered a sensation/scandal.
Another time she was tending to african-american guests and talking and joking with them when an older cowboy got up in the middle of his meal, slammed money on the table and left without a word. My mom was bedazzled about what had gone wrong and the black people told her that white people don't talk to black people in these parts and that her behaviour was very unusual by rural Texas standards. Medieval standards, no less.
Fastforward into the early 80ies, smack in the middle of the cold war and nuclear exchange always looming we lived near Bonn in western Germany and my mom used to say that the Russians weren't the problem. But a USA turning fascist - that should be the thing to be afraid of. Very afraid.
My mom is a smart woman.
And I have to say, heaven help us all if it's the USAs turn to try out fascism.
And I know perfectly 'normal' nice people can turn into something far beyond anything one might call 'savage'. If you come to Germany today, you wouldn't think for a moment that our ancestors are responsible for the most extreme atrocities ever commited by and to humanity.
I'm actually staying paranoid and have been for the past 2.5 decades, ready to move out of Europe and to Patagonia or something, should fascism and xenophobia start to spread out in Europe and other parts of the western world again. And my buddies are starting to understand.
My 2 cents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I've looked back through this thread and can't for the life of me figure out who SJW is that you are responding to .... is it someone you just made up?
I'm talking about a culture that reflexively jumps to the maximum fear setting when any scientific/technical subject comes up. Anti-genetic engineering, anti-vax, anti-space programs (even when done privately), anti-nuclear (even in the face of their own politically motivated hysteria on carbon). There are towns whose children's' teeth are rotting out of their heads because they stopped fluoridating the water after somebody on the village council read "Dr" Mercola's website.
The latest foreboding movement to come out of this culture is the abandonment of actual science in fighting environmental battles at places like Ivanpah, Maunakea and Standing Rock. Instead of arguing about observable levels of a pollutant or the statistical risk of transportation alternatives, we're being subjected to vague claims that various pieces of land are "sacred" to some group which never took an interesting the area before being whipped up by out-of-state radicals.
Scientists should be more active in standing up for science and its applications. One example: If you're working in California, that would have meant standing up for high-speed rail, and using the rational, scientific part of the climate argument to do it.
So according to Steven Bannon we can't have a "civic society" in America if there are areas whose population aren't a majority of whites.
That pretty much reflects the attitude of a substantial portion of the republican party and it's a big part of what got Trump elected.
I expected a more sophisticated racist euphemism from a Harvard-educated man.
Why? He's in a position of power now and has the ear of the president-elect so why would you expect him to be circumspect?
You respect and protect that by allowing other cultures to continue to immigrate and contribute to that culture.
And yet we elected a president who campaigned on exactly the opposite position. Namely keep the brown skinned people down/out and return our country to a false version of the 1950s when everything seemed great if you were a white man.
What we have in many cases today are people coming here and not assimilating, simply continuing to live as they did in their native countries creating these pockets of culture that are in many cases incompatible with American culture.
Incompatible with whose "American culture"? Yours? There is no single American culture and never has been. Culture in Texas is hugely different than culture in Ohio which is hugely different than culture in Montana. Black people have a distinct culture just as white people do. Spanish speaking americans are just as american as english speaking ones. Immigrants with different backgrounds and beliefs have always been here. Just because you couldn't be bothered to pay them any attention means you missed the point entirely. We absorb bits of their culture just like they absorb parts of ours. That's why they call it a melting pot. There is no such thing as "incompatible with American culture" because American culture is not a single thing and never has been.
Stay strong. 4 years form now you hopefully will get another shot to make your country great again.
Don't have to wait that long. There is an election in 2 years. We can put a big roadblock in front of Trump by voting the opposition into power in either wing of congress.
Actually the interesting election will be the 2020 election, particularly at the state level because that is the one which determines who gets to gerrymander the districts for the next 10 years. The republicans got to do it in 2010 and that is why they continue to hold congress. Personally I'm hoping Trump is a train wreck and the democrats take him to the woodshed in the next few elections.
I agree with Mr. Bannon wholeheartedly. I see no benefit to America in promoting the careers of these transnational aliens at the expense of our own people.
And yet, you say it as an AC. Lovely.
Even if what you say were true, and it isn't... Spreading and profiting from this stuff makes him morally bankrupt, which might be even worse! So he's a racist and has no moral values whatsoever. He's as bad as Adolf Hitler, and so is Trump.
Whenever there's a purportedly "racist" outcome in some industry, be it housing or credit or tech jobs, the cry of "disproportionate representation" goes up along with demands that the work-force or customer base be somehow rebalanced so that what amount to racial quotas can be attained.
But when counter-examples are raised, say, the NBA or Silicon Valley CEOs, any attempt to even raise them as counter examples is itself branded racist. Because in those cases, clearly it is just the best and brightest succeeding on their merit. Only those *other* things are rigged.
I find it somewhat laughable that anyone would really try to argue that the NBA be forced to hire and play more white players so that white players are represented in their proportion of the population, but few people bat an eye when quotas are called for in other areas.
Russia is strictly speaking, a Eurasian country. Culturally, it is European, but the fact that >70% of their area is in Asia makes them that.
I think what he meant was that ethnic Chinese/Indian/other Asian CEOs - regardless of whether they are citizens or not - support the H1B program not just for financial reasons, but also for cultural reasons: they want to get more of their ethnic compatriots here.
I read the full transcript of the conversation b/w Bannon and Trump, which happened when Trump called his radio show. Part of it is given above. The difference b/w them is on OPT authorizations of F1 visa extensions, whereby foreign students on F1 visas who graduate from US universities get a 1-2 year permit to legally work in the US. In terms of skills, they are at par w/ their US classmates, while being far less picky about employers (as a former OPT from the 90s, speaking from experience). This is where there is a break b/w Trump vs some people, like Bannon, Jeff Sessions and Ted Cruz, all of the latter who are opposed to OPT students continuing to work and become citizens. Not taking one side or another, just stating what it is.
If Trump wants his way, here is a way to sort this out. Right now, once the OPT period of a student ends, he can either leave the country, or his employer has to get an H1B visa, for which it has to get in line w/ the rest. Instead, if they introduce a new transitional visa b/w OPT and Permanent Resident/Citizen, that keeps that lane completely separate from the H1B visa lane. Unlike H1B workers who are offshore employees of companies who are brought here and who do bring down wages, OPT workers start on par w/ Americans, and it's only cheaper to hire them once they have to go on H1Bs. But in terms of skills, they are not like offshore workers i.e. an Indian who gets a CS degree in a US university is far more skilled than somebody run through the motions at HCL or Tech Mahindra. So it makes sense to treat them differently. I'm more w/ Trump on this than I'm w/ Bannon
The same argument was just voiced by the other side:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
simply continuing to live as they did in their native countries creating these pockets of culture
every wave of immigration did that.
EVERY.
SINGLE.
ONE.
that are in many cases incompatible with American culture
That exact phrase was said about every wave of immigration.
Again: EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.
and it was just as bigoted then as it is now.
Define American culture?
Prior to the Irish and Italians showing up, it was predominantly protestant, and Catholics were seen as subversive undesirable elements.
Now no one cares.
Prior to the construction of the railroad, and its coincidental timing with the first waves of Chinese immigrants (which caused further immigration because "hey guys there's jobs here!"), Chinese cuisine was utterly foreign, and initially there attempts to regulate and even prohibit it, because it was seen as somehow unfit for America.
Now everyone loves it.
Every wave of immigration has a similar story, of some aspect of their culture being deemed un-American at first.
Current waves are no different, and neither will be future waves.
what you folks miss is that assimilation is a multigenerational process that is nearly the same every time.
and if anything, the immigrants you complain about today actually assimilate faster than previous waves did, because both English and things you consider "western" or "American" values are actually more widespread around the world now.
again: this is a fault in our education system and curriculums.
people don't learn about the Irish and Polish and Italian ghettos of New York City, where thousands of people rarely if ever spoke English, other than the children, and lived culturally traditional lives only slightly changed from their home country to accommodate their new living conditions. People know longer know that for several decades the predominant language in the Midwest was actually Dutch and/or German!
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
That racial nonsense needs to be in the trash can. If anything we should be seeking out the best students in Asian Universities and paying them to immigrate into the US. Those guys can be remarkable scholars as can scholars from Pakistan and India. Bright people are our future and we need to get as many as we possibly can just to survive in this troubled world.
It'll be interesting to see the alt-right portion of the slashdot crowd defend this racist scumbag.
By interesting, I mean embarrassing to humanity.
Bannon brought out a fair concern - whether it's legit or not depends on one's POV. His implication was that ethnic Asian CEOs (including Chinese, Indians and other Asians here) are trying to bring in their ethnic compatriots into their companies in order to be culturally more at ease, but in the process, altering the ethnic make-up of the country. Like for instance, a Chinese CEO having his company apply for H1B visas for Chinese left & right, not just for financial reasons - that they accept less and work more - but also to be able to have more Mandarin speaking people around him. Whether that is true or not would vary anecdotally.
If his assumption is true, then it is fair to ask - should the role of CEOs be to try to alter the ethnic makeup of the US through immigration?
If you were an American suburban high-school graduate attending college for the first time, tell me you didn't curse the Asian kids who regularly blew the bell curve. That said, why Americans didn't learn anything about focus, hard work, and determination from that experience is the question the American educational system should be asking.
What about Accord society, or CR-V society. Aren't those undermined as well?
Except that in the excerpt above, they disagree: Trump in favor of F1 students staying on and ultimately becoming citizens, while Bannon disagrees
Look at AmiMojo's sig. SJW = Someone I don't like and by the way I'm a fuckwit.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Thank you, this post shows you are a true patriot and a real American.
Cheap storage VM.
Actually nationalism itself is a form of racism in my opinion. And even if it's not racism it's still pretty low. I mean the typical nationalist doesn't care anything about human beings not part of their country .. that seems unethical to me. I mean, if you only care about your own family but don't care at all about your neighbor that's pretty evil.
No, Nationalism is simply putting your own country first ahead of others. In principle, it's fine to care about people from all sorts of countries. But when people in one's own country are suffering, it's perfectly legitimate to prioritize and champion their compatriots above people from other countries
How is that any different? Most 2nd generation immigrants don't speak anything other then English. I am, and I don't.
My Maternal Grandparents never spoke English, I never learned Spanish. My Mother was the first in her family born in the US, her brothers fought in VIetnam, her husband (my father), served 20 years in the military. So far, 3 of her kids have also served.
Cheap storage VM.
Assimilation is a long term process, most 2nd generation immigrants don't speak their grandparent's language. Hispanics seem to buck this trend some, they are often fluent in both, but mostly identify as American.
Cheap storage VM.
Desire to kill other people is not normal behavior. The German pilot didn't do it for political reasons, he was suicidal. Taking other people with him is murder-suicide, but since he didn't do it on ethical or moral grounds I wouldn't call it terrorism. A guy walking into a bar and yelling "Allah u Akbar," pledging himself to ISIS and then opening fire when he has no ties to ISIS or even really Islam and really just wants to kill a bunch of people and get himself killed in a hail of bullets is also mentally ill. The same guy with radical indoctrination deciding a bar is a house of sin even if just because of the alcohol being sold there and then shooting it up because he's promised a bunch of virgin women to boink in heaven is a terrorist (well, OK, I technically don't know if those virgin women are for sex - in my mind it always seemed to be implied).
I've never lived anywhere with open carry laws, and when I have been to places like Texas, I've never seen anyone openly carrying, thankfully. When I go to places like Mexico and there are armed guards with assault rifles patrolling the streets it is unnerving. They're all armed and dangerous in my mind. Shooting a black man (or Mexican or whatever) in Texas for open carry is racism and a double standard. If that guy is shot because of it, even by police, that person/officer should go to jail for breaking their own laws.
Doing things because your ancestors did things a certain way is the worst reason to do something.
That does not mean that what they did was bad (or good) just that now things are different and should be looked at on how the situation is now.
The ancesters allowed slavery. They did not allow women to vote. They allowed smoking MaryJane and even allowed smoking tobacco inside of restaurants and at work.
If you think you must look at what the ancestors did, you are not allowed to pick and choose. Either take it all or nothing. I say take nothing and decide for yourself and build the country YOU want, not the country THEY wanted.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
+1: Wish I had mod points.
The very premise that pushing away other cultures is racist/evil while embracing them is appropriation is incredibly conflicted and entirely a matter of talking out both sides of your mouth at once.
... showing the world that you know shit about the history of the USA.
Then I've never ever heard an SJW, strange that given according to your ilk they are everywhere always complaining...
Grow up.
Then you've never attended college in recent years. I've heard plenty of them pissing and moaning about "white privilege" and "cultural appropriation" since I decided to go back to school. There are even recent cases of harassment and assault of white students for having dreads because even that is considered "cultural appropriation".
No, YOU need to grow up and release the extreme views that the left (especially the naive younger lefties) has started to champion are the reason the alt-right crowd exists. I don't consider myself "alt-right", more of a simple Libertarian.
What does any of the stuff I wrote have to do w/ the history of the US?
Because all those Yankees fans are white and not a single minority plays baseball....wow...
Yet SJW's whine about "cultural appropriation" all the time. How can it be a melting pot is "cultural appropriation" is evil?
Melting pot is adoption, not appropriation, would be the general response. Wearing an indian feathered headdress because you think it looks cool would be appropriation. Wearing an indian feathered headdress because you went to the pow wows and earned it would be adoption.
So people being harassed for "cultural appropriation" for having dreadlocks is an appropriate response? What if my wife were to harass a black woman for straightening her hair? Or if I harassed a native American for wearing a western-style business suits without attending a board meeting, business function or office interview? Or a rap fan for wearing a Slayer T-shirt? Or if a religious nutter harasses people who decorate their house with crosses without attending a Christian church?
In short, I'll "appropriate" whatever the hell I want. Chances are, those cultures ripped it off from some other culture (modern or ancient) along the way anyway.
It isn't really any different. Immigrants, with a few notable exceptions, will assimilate into the larger culture. Anti-immigrant sentiment, by the way, is very old, and early versions of it have eerily similar overtones to the current hysteria over Muslims and Mexicans. A century or so ago, it was the fear of Irish and to some extent of Eastern European immigrants, not to mention on the Pacific coast of North America, fears about Asians, and in particular Chinese. There were similar fears of the white man being outbred. I remember looking at magazines from the turn of the 20th century being fearful of the "Yellow Hoard". Immigrants are often tarred with nefarious intentions, and often the misbehavior of some small group of an ethnic population are used to slander the entire group.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I'll admit, I feel for the click bait title.
"While Bannon didn't explicitly say anything against immigrants, he seemed to hint at the idea"
So why is this newsworthy?
No beer and no TV make Homer something something
Most of what you list has little to do with liberal or conservative.
The strongest anti-vax, anti-GMO person I know is a strong right-wing conservative preacher. I don't know if he's anti-space, but I don't think he much cares for it, nor do I know for sure if he's anti-nuclear but given his other positions, it wouldn't surprise me.
There is an anti-intellectual movement on both sides of the political aisle, separate and motivated by very different things, but that come to essentially the same result.
So saying "liberal anti-science culture" is only hitting half of the anti-science culture. I also, just anecdotally, think the liberal anti-science culture accepts a lot more actual science than the conservative anti-science culture, much of which believes patently absurd things like the earth is only 6500 years old.
Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
Perhaps they are indeed, and you don't have enough of the aforementioned traits to truly understand their position?
http://cylan.deviantart.com/gallery/
On the right, the only set of anti-science positions that are part of a culture are the Biblical literalists of Christian fundamentalism. They have always been around, living in a world of their own that has never been able to gather the media influence it takes to become a legislative and legal power. Outside the churches, anti-science sentiment on the right is a scattered series of one-offs: the climate denialists, some "alternative" medicine men, desert conspiracy bloggers, et. al. Climate denialism only thrives as a political reaction to the screechy arrogance of climate activists, who unlike the scientists, embrace climate change only as their latest we're all gonna-die scenario.
It is on the left that being against every application of science it becomes aware of, and most recently against science itself, has become a default setting, with its own standing army of lawyers ready to prevent anything whatever from being built. This culture has even resurrected one of those old right-wing one-offs from circa 1953, the John Birch Society's anti-fluoride movement, and started the long march through the city councils it will take to knock off dental care.
and I mean that. My family got hit with two major illnesses in 2008 right when the entire US economy collapsed thanks to Bush jr deregulating the main street and Walstreet banks. So fuck off.
I vote. I work hard. I convince numskulls like you what's in your own interests (assuming your not a Russian shill). What I can't abide by is having to compete with slave labor. 97% of Indians make less than $3950/yr. That little gem of a statistic is brought to you by CNN and the recent brouhaha over their attempts to get the remaining 3% to pay some mother fucking taxes. I can't compete with that. I can't compete with a country that still calls people "untouchable" (yeah, I know they're all equal now. Tell that to black men in the American south while you're at it).
You can't compete with that either if you live in the states. The 1% are gonna eat you alive. Enjoy a slow, painful death you dipshit. My anger's placed right where it needs to be.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
What's not true? He may be evil, but if you were to call Trump a purple monster, I'd correct you that most call him orange, not purple.
Your answer is "you are wrong. The facts don't matter. My opinion is more correct than any facts you could present." Though you didn't mention where I was wrong, nor what the truth is, only that it doesn't matter to you.
Learn to love Alaska
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I didn't support either of those ass-clowns. I'm not a Trump supporter in the least and I didn't vote for him. I don't support the leftists and I don't support Christian Nationalism. I'm just a simple Libertarian.
And yeah, I'm fairly old and experienced enough to realize the road to hell is paved with good intentions that are eventually used to inflict mass tyranny by the next guy. If you like anti-"hate speech", blasphemy laws and far left-leaning governments that coddle their citizens, I hear the EU is pretty nice.
You can feel that I'm "dumb" because I'm more than willing to let anyone "appropriate" any part of my culture that they like regardless of their race or class. You can feel that I'm an idiot for not identifying with a bunch of brats on an Ivy League campus I could never hope to attend screaming about "white privilege". You can think I'm an idiot for not giving a shit about "hate speech" because driving bigotry underground is dangerous. But you know what? That's your right and I won't stop you from being naive, young and stupid. After all, this is America.
Get a grip, not everyone in the tech industry is a left-leaning, over-sensitive cry-baby.
>A country is more than an economy. We're a civic society.
It means exactly that. There's more to a country than money and business. There's a culture that should be respected and protected. Sitting back quietly while a major national industry is overtaken by people from different cultures who only came to America to go to school and get rich and may or may not have any intention of assimilating is hardly protecting our culture.
Well, maybe that "culture" should do more and step up to the plate. Secondly, you are making a pretty stupid assumption that these different cultures may or may not want to assimilate. Based on what do you spout such shit? They came, they worked, got rich and founded companies. I'd say they assimilated pretty fucking well. Or does assimilation means do nothing and wait for jobs to come back from China?
That's not racism or "white nationalism", it's the whole fucking point of having a country and has been for 3000 years.
And countries change. Empires and nations have for ages imported the best artisans and engineers they could find and afford. That is part of nation building. Nation building never stops. Again, if people have a problem because Ling and Kumar burn the midnight oil and get rich and build shit from scratch, maybe they should shut the fuck out, do the same and show the world how this shit is supposed to be done.
This is really what some of us are talking about. Immigrants used to come to America and assimilate into the culture (my ancestors included). What we have in many cases today are people coming here and not assimilating, simply continuing to live as they did in their native countries creating these pockets of culture that are in many cases incompatible with American culture. Slow the influx of people, vet for people who want to be a productive part of our society, and help them assimilate.
That is absolute bullshit. We have Chinese, Romanians, Russians, Indians, Hispanics, and American "natives" living alongside in pretty much every metropolitan area. Yeah, there are frictions, just like there are frictions when you put millions of people together. But guess what? The live, they work, they live they work, day after day.
There are no riots or shit. People mind their own business and do their own shit.
The whole "not assimilating" thing is just bullshit spouted by people who simply can't stand seeing people who pray different or look different or just happened to have a different accent.
And the ability for all those people, all that new Babel, just working and moving forward like normal people would, that's just a big fucking existential threat to whatever it is that they pass as their identity.
Stop spouting that shit. Get some counseling.
Having too many Steve Bannons threatens civic society. Too many is any number greater than zero.
Well, I don't see too many Ammonites or Moabites around, so no worries!
This is my sig.
The melting pot isn't immediate. We don't take immigrants right off the boat or plane and melt them down. It can take generations. It seems to work in the long run, though, and I like the culture it produces.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Assimilation has not normally meant giving up your religion. Religious freedom is part of US society (with dissidents, of course; my sister-in-law thought I shouldn't have voted for a Muslim for Congress). You do have to be accepting of other religions to be assimilated.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
I haven't read every post here, so I don't know if anyone else has pointed this out; but Bannon does not appear to even know what the definition of "civic society" even is. It's certainly not what he is framing it to mean in this assertion. What he means of course is "culture" but he wisely decided (probably at the last minute) that using that term would be a bit too much and might smack of intellectual elitism and just alarm the meatheads that he was trying to communicate with by flashing one of their buzz-words. So his mind veered and faltered and settled on "civic society" (which is really not what he saying - a civic society is a voluntary body or society with civic aims). This is only one of many crimes against language perpetrated by him and really all of the Trump camp puppet heads. Never have I seen such a low level of erudition in a group of public servants, and given that I am from New Orleans that is saying something. In Bannon's case it probably has more with his being a drunk and thus unable to actually concentrate (look at his face, look at his disheveled demeanor, read the gin blossoms in his cheeks - he's hard core); expect much more of this nonsense. I keep hoping that I will find someplace where the discourse instead of just reacting to this kind of puffery attempts to deconstruct it logically. I haven't found that place yet. If it needs saying, my Comment Subject Line is mean to b a funny.
Wait, what?
Um, capitalism? Employing people in the USA? He's against that?
Now I'm confused again!
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
"Diversity society will fail" --Putnam;
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/the_downside_of_diversity/
Casteism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_desirability_bias
Casteism
A question and a remark, if you do care:
- First, I've had courses (middle-level, I'll say) in climatology some years ago, and all climatologists who taught us actually do consider that climate science is complex, and that the gross simplifications that constitute the Global Warming mediatic consensus do not make sense.
- Second, I'd be very happy if you could explain something to me about the Kurgan hypothesis, since afaik it is closely related to your field of work in PIE studies: Marija Gimbutas, the inventor of the Kurgan hypothesis, received her doctorate from Tübingen University in 1946. Which means that she started her doctorate a few years before, and I think that you know that starting 1933 the german anthropology field became a tad less scientific that we may have wished. So, how come such a little epistemologic problem never casted any doubts on Gimbuta's work?
Oh I wonder... Maybe that almost all nationalities that emigrated to the US first willingly segregated themselves by nationality and language before integrating properly? Irish, Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Norwegians, Swedes etc. The integration is more swift today than before and even in the past the effective integration period was ~1 generation.
Why are you so afraid of Chinese in particular?
I used Chinese as an example: I'm not particularly 'afraid' of them. I do think that any group that wants to ultimately become Americans should assimilate in terms of at least the language. For instance, I have nothing against Hispanics, but I am against Spanish becoming a co-equal w/ English. Language should be the first thing people adapt, followed by the people. Places like government offices having translation facilities for people who don't know English is ridiculous, since it puts a strain on departments to employ people who know all sorts of exotic languages.