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Clinton Urged To Challenge Election Results Due To Possible Hacking [Update] (cnn.com)
Reader Bruha writes: After examining results in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin computer scientists have discovered Clinton averaged 7% worse in counties with e voting machines vs. counties with only paper or optical scan ballots.From a CNN report:The computer scientists believe they have found evidence that vote totals in the three states could have been manipulated or hacked and presented their findings to top Clinton aides on a call last Thursday. The scientists, among them J. Alex Halderman, the director of the University of Michigan Center for Computer Security and Society, told the Clinton campaign they believe there is a questionable trend of Clinton performing worse in counties that relied on electronic voting machines compared to paper ballots and optical scanners, according to the source. The group informed John Podesta, Clinton's campaign chairman, and Marc Elias, the campaign's general counsel, that Clinton received 7% fewer votes in counties that relied on electronic voting machines, which the group said could have been hacked.Halderman wrote more about it on Medium today in an article titled, "Want to Know if the Election was Hacked? Look at the Ballots"
Update: Green party candidate Jill Stein is asking for donations to fund a recount of her own in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, which are the states key to Hillary Clinton's surprising loss. Stein says she must raise $2.5 million by Friday 4 pm central time to proceed.
Editor's note: the story has been updated and moved up on the front page.
Update: Green party candidate Jill Stein is asking for donations to fund a recount of her own in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, which are the states key to Hillary Clinton's surprising loss. Stein says she must raise $2.5 million by Friday 4 pm central time to proceed.
Editor's note: the story has been updated and moved up on the front page.
Here we go, time to sit back and watch the show that is titled "America"
The DNC knows there was hacking because they've done it before and did it this election too. What a surprise.
Do your research.
Type Democrat - sore loser
Is this part of the fake news? Or is it actually real news? Or is it Clinton being a sore loser. The DNC and Clinton doesn't really have a leg to stand on though, especially after fixing their own primary to make sure she was the candidate.
Om, nomnomnom...
It's a crock. The only "irregularity" is that their side lost. http://www.vox.com/2016/11/22/...
I am not an American, but I was wondering if Clinton Campaign can -- at least hypothetically -- really challenge the results? I mean, is it a thing?
Richer precincts are more likely to have e-voting machines. Richer precincts are also more likely to lean Republican. Therefore, precincts that have e-voting machines are more lean Republican.
Weakly protected voting machines are a huge liability and should be illegal (slot machines are more heavily regulated!), but without actual evidence of a hack having occurred the above seems like a more plausible explanation of the effect they see.
It should be noted that there have been plenty of similar allegations in the past coming from the other side.
Because Diebold et al have steadfastly refused to provide a verifiable paper trail, claiming it's too complicated, or incorporate any kind of audit log, we will never know if the votes which people cast were correctly recorded.
This applies to anyone during any election these machines have been in place, not only this one.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
And we know this is completely non-partisan because they went directly to the authorities with their findings... oh, wait...
The lack of self-awareness on behalf of the losers is astounding.
They're doing exactly what they said they feared Trump supporters would do if he lost, disrespecting the outcome of a legal election and pissing on our republic's history of a peaceful transition of power.
It's over, time for them to move on. They've got 4 years to regroup and try to rebuild their party into something that isn't a hive of scum and villainy. I wouldn't waste a lot of time bellyaching when there's a monumental task ahead of them if they want to ever win another election in this country.
The American political cluster-fuck continues. There's no end in sight. And away we continue, one and all.
This is like calling on the electors to not choose Trump, or come up with all sorts of far fetched plans that would somehow put Clinton on the big seat. Look at the county results map. Even if the DNC can somehow find a technicality to avoid a Trump presidency, the result will be more or less a civil war imo. There is no way that the actual people in those red counties are going to let 'the big city folks' put Trump aside.
I am not a big fan of him either. Nor of Hillary for that matter. But at this point it's gone so far that either he becomes president or you'll have riots from coast to coast.
Trump winning the Republican party primary despite their best efforts to stop him proves that the Republicans aren't rigging elections.
are illiterate and scared of paper with markings on it. They prefer to mash their thick, callused, simian fingers on a colorful screen.
It's the Electoral College that voted Trump in, not the people and until we eliminate it, it'll happen again because we don't know who in hell they are.
She lost in places that don't have the money to buy fancy electronic voting machines because the people are poorer.
Maybe if Hillary and the rest of the Democrats had given two shits in hell about the middle and lower classes *before* the election she would have received more votes from them.
Do you have ESP?
Having read earlier reports of this analysis, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree.
From what I read, there was no attempt to find other explanations, like a demographic preference for e-voting over paper, or the local economic costs of maintaining one particular voting mechanism.
Nope, let's just just straight to assuming hacking.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
Does not imply causation.
By scrutinizing every bit and byte? By checking on flow of electronst? Or perhaps by installing a special module which will instantly rewrite voting computer's memory storage to 100% Clinton, 0% Trump?
George Soros connected company Smartmatic has provided those electronic voting machines.
Now it is all clear: Nazi collaborator Soros wanted another Hitler loving fellow Trump to win.
Sneaky Soros...
Were the stats adjusted for racial and income makeup of the counties examined? Clinton underperformed among poor white voters. The reason for this "discrepency" is probably a correlation between poor counties and use of electronic voting machines. The D's (who I normally vote with) need no excuse for losing other than the shitty campaign their candidate ran. #itshillarysfault.
That is all.
Even if we had a fully open and verifiable hardware and software architecture, it doesn't prevent someone from finding weaknesses. The only solution to this potential subversion of the people's will is to get rid of e-voting entirely and go back to paper ballots.
If they did they'll find all the votes for Cliton from people that have been buried for years, people that don't really exist, and votes that changed after being submitted.
I heard Obama a month ago say there is absolutely no evidence of any voter fraud in the US ever. Not a single provable occurrence.
So are you telling me Obama lied to me? You probably just don't like him because he is a black man I bet.
"It terrifying" Clinton said when she found out Trump may not accept outcome of election because of suspected fraud. I believe she then also went on to say there has never been evidence of voter fraud.
I bet you hat her just because she is a woman.
Why won't you give blacks and women a chance in this country without having to call them liars?
Yes. She can - or more properly her campaign can, on behalf of the slates of Democratic electors in the affected states. They would normally have to file for recounts and then challenge ballots one by one. In this kind of case...it would be a pretty new thing for the courts.
The truth of the matter is that in most cases the election results have already been certified, which pushes things to another level. You'd have to get some judge in each state to agree to let this happen, and then after that you'd have to expect to get appeal after appeal. Moreover, it'd have to happen in three separate states to change the election result. The margins in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania are much larger than in Michigan, so they'd have to invalidate a lot of ballots to get there. Fail in one, and you lose anyway. Also, if you assume electronic modification of ballots, how do you identify the ones that are invalid?
This would not fail to provoke Republican counter-challenges in states like New Hampshire and Minnesota, so you'd have more states in play then.
This would also cost a mint (states charge on a per-ballot basis for recounts, varies by state). Stuff would be found that has been relatively secretive until this point - such as the dead vote and illegal alien voting. This would possibly - in fact probably provoke an armed response at this point. I'm not kidding about the armed response bit. Tempers are on edge here, and if you think the Democrats are the only ones angry, you're not taking into account that the Republicans are just more disciplined in general. Also, better armed.
Last point - the House would just vote Trump into office anyway if there were this disaster going on and no one were sure about the electors. Each state gets a vote, and each state's House delegation would vote internally on their collective vote.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
I was wondering what kind of things that would happen if Trump won, one thing we can be pretty sure of is that the establishment doesn't let 30+ years of comfortable ruling go without a fight, and that means a fight to the bloody end, claws, fingers, nails and craniums. Bring out your tinfoil hat folks, and get ready to watch the show of the century unfold.
The hacker accusations is just the very beginning of the show, there's all kinds of stuff gonna happen now, I personally predict that they'll work 24H to dishonor him in some way so they can regain the power without angering the public, but it won't go down without a price. The "tinfoil hat" voters will have their theories verified if he either gets assassinated, dishonored enough to have to leave by any sort of disqualifications. And it has NOTHING to do with Trump, it's voting for none of the above that it is all about, and he was the lesser evil of the two.
I'm a bit scared too - you should be too, because we're in for a rough ride. Civil unrest will come as a result of this, whether he stays or the above alternatives happens. Mark my words - you're never going to forget this event in history.
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
When I read your post, it is obvious you are a Trump supporter, and by finishing your statement with "Fucking morons" you definitely fit the mold of a Trump supporter.
Whether there was hacking, whether Trump is in bed with the Russians(and their hacking resources, etc) doesn't really matter.
We all know that Trump will be the next president.
Also, and much more importantly, we also know what Trump has said, and saw his behavior...
So I say this with all honesty and without a hint of sarcasm, own your support of Trump.
Own and embrace his calls for xenophobia, racism, sexism, misogyny and bigotry.
Don't back pedal and make a half hearted attempte to normalize Trump and your support for him.
Don't be a pussy and try to distance yourself from his extremism.
Own it.
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
It appears that modern liberals genuinely can't tolerate people disagreeing with them and clearly believe that opposing opinions must be blocked.
If an democratic vote doesn't go their way, whether it's Trump or Brexit, they'll launch legal challenges to get the vote over turned.
If media outlets publish articles opposed to their agenda they label it fake news and demand it be censored.
If people voice opinions contrary to their views they'll report them to the police for hate speech, report them to their employers and demand they be fired, or will threaten and harass them.
I'd describe myself as a right wing libertarian and I respect other people's opinions. I believe everyone should be free to voice their opinions without fear of censorship or harassment. I believe the results of democratic polls should be respected. I believe in freedom.
Liberals on the other hand believe in doing anything necessary, no matter how underhand, to get their way. Whether it's censorship, abuse of the courts or harassment, the modern liberal will do anything to get their way. They are choosing to discard freedom, justice and democracy in order to force their views on the populace.
The most dangerous people in history have been people who believe utterly that they are right, and that they have morality on their side, and therefore any means justifies their ends. That is exactly what the modern liberal has become.
I can say that I do quite enjoy seeing all you faggots and hipsters getting so upset
about it. You're all a bunch of pathetic little whining bitches.
"...let us not forget the massive study by Professor Justin Levitt at Loyola University of the actual incidences of voter fraud from 2000 to 2014."
"Actual voter fraud is almost unheard of in the United States."
"Irresponsibly claiming that the election is “fixed” must be countered with actual evidence of remarkably honest elections in America."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/10/16/1583223/-MORE-THAN-A-BILLION-VOTES-31-CASES-OF-VOTER-FRAUD
Allegations are not evidence. Correlation is not causation. Bring actual evidence of hacking or election fraud or stop spreading BS.
Being from one of these heavily contested states I can pretty much say that a lot of people who normally would have supported Clinton turned away from her due to the tone of her campaign. A good 80% of her ads were nothing but "hate Trump" ads and the others were mostly garbage. Her one "I love renewables" actually had something worthwhile and the other ones were all "I love children." Like most other Slashdotters, the whole "I love children" aspect is a big red flag for personal freedoms and spelled out how she was going to handle several issues without another word.
My mother was even sick of it, as both a long time Kennedy Democrat and a grandmother it's hard to believe but she was noticeably agitated by these ads. My guess is that she voted for Jill Stein. She asked me about third party candidates about two months before the election and you could tell that she wasn't going to throw the Democrat switch this time and she had no love for Trump... I seen it from other Democrats too who mostly supported the party because they had union jobs. I know nearly for a fact that a few of them went Johnson out of disgust. It's not as much that Trump gained in my state but that Hillary lost support.
When are Democrats going to understand the old, tired cries of racism and sexism have played out and now a lot of people see it as another rally point for those who have no vision but a desire for power? It was largely an election that played out between two four year old siblings fighting over a toy and the side that could stomach that kind of nonsense is the one that won. Maybe she knew it all along and just misplayed her hand.
Who knew "meme magic" was code for the keys to the electronic voting machines?
This is what happens when your opponent wins the 4chan vote. Pepe approves!
...was the Gerrymandering.
Once a candidate was selected, selecting a different candidate did nothing, you had to deselect the previously chosen candidate first.
It was a complete non-story.
In mathematics, this is what's known as a lurking variable. Just because there's a correlation between counties with digital voting machines and a higher percentage of them voting for one candidate over the other does not mean one caused the other to happen. I too believe the lurking variable is likely economic factors of the demographic and their corresponding voting trends. Alternatively, it may just be that counties who lean Republican are more likely to elect county leaders who push for digital voting machines.
It looks like Chris Wallace asked "do you make the same commitment that you'll absolutely accept the result of the election?" of the wrong candidate.
I, and everyone I work with, happen to be college educated. I am also an extreme minority on my team being a white male. I know countless college educated people and listen to numerous college educated people working in Radio. Mark Levin, Dennis Prager, Ben Shapiro, and Larry Elder. None of those people voted for Hillary, and all but one of the media people listed voted for Trump even if their primary reasoning was to block Hillary. Out of the few dozen people I work with, the only people I know that voted for Hillary did so to block Trump. Pew Research seems to match my personal anecdote more than not.
The identity politics you mention does not seem to match as well as a Conservative vs. Liberal approach to politics. I was given the impression that our executives wanted everyone to be pro Hillary. This led to an environment where people were afraid to speak their minds about politics, it did not sway people's opinions on politics. It may have even solidified people's opinions that we need more Conservatism, not more Liberalism. The open bias in media furthered that position as well.
I have yet to meet an educated person protesting Trump's election. The majority of what I see marching down SF streets are High School age kids, not people who are well educated.
I work with touch screens daily and if they "break" it's usually no touch at all or a segment of the screen is non-responsive.
I work with touch screens daily. When they break it's often that they're not "broken", but they register a touch that's systematically displaced from where you thought you put your finger (or stylus): that is, a touch in the box for one candidate would register in the neighboring box.
They are also susceptible to "phantom touches"-- places where the screen registers a touch even though you're not actually touching it.
(In any case, the ones that break by not registering touches at all are irrelevant: these simply won't get used. )
If it's a calibration issue then where you touch may not reflect where the computer THINKS you touch. And those are not uniform -- one maybe a bit above, one maybe a bit to the left and a third machine maybe a lot to the right and down. That more than a single touch screen had the same 'defect' in calibration should toss up some flags.
The most likely "flag" it raises is that there aren't enough statistics to tell whether the reported failures are all in one direction, or in multiple directions.
Can't we just go back to paper ballots? They're better in every way (unless you want to hack and rig the election).
If, for the sake of argument, we assume that the evidence provided is true and accurate, would it then be enough for her to carry the state? If yes, it would probably be worth the effort to challenge because.... what does Clinton have to lose exactly? If she wins, she's President, if she loses, she's basically right back where she is now. If winning all (or even some) of these counties still wouldn't be enough for her to carry the state and get over that magic 270 electoral vote number, what would be the point?
If Donald Trump had gotten 2 million more popular votes than Hillary Clinton and still lost the election, would he and his supporters have accepted it graciously and not claimed fraud?
Hell, Trump was claiming fraud before the election even took place.
You are welcome on my lawn.
As someone utterly terrified by a Trump presidency and the damage it's going to do I say she goes for it. The point isn't to win, it's to bog down the Trump administration to limit the damage he can do. The Repubs did it to Obama (though I'd argue Obama was actually trying to Govern where Trump is just the world's largest scam). As the saying goes, this is how the sausage is made.
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Donald won, and America woke up. On to the next topic.
This is just another case of bad judgement on Clinton's part.
Good judgement would have been to challenge the vote immediately based on Trumps statement of not accepting the election results if Clinton won, and his known association with Putin both of which point to Trump knowing in advance that the election was already rigged in his favor.
The election was her's to lose, and she seems to have pulled that one off quite nicely at every opportunity.
*Shuffles feet nervously, looks at ground".
You won't see Clinton asking for careful election examination because she likes the adoration her supposed popular vote lead creates.
The really funny thing is Clinton miscalculated where she needed to manipulate votes...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I hope they do a recount, it's hard to imagine that Trump magically won in these states he needed to change the election. Everyone across the nation is stunned, especially voters in these states. It's a bit odd with all the money Ttimp has and his tattletale insults which reflect his own dirty deals of paying people off and last minute runs to Michigan,Pa, and Wisconsin suddenly changing from blue to red after his repeated visits, hardly affected voters choices. I think it's more telltale with Mi governor who has denied cities in Michigsn democracy in past by taking away democracy by appointing emergency managers, denying public opinion, magically finding ways such as claiming font on recalls for governor were of the wrong size etc, Wisconsin governor has stripped unions, changed the way votes are counted so that elected Republicans can get 50% of vote, but get two thirds placed in office? I can't say anything about Pa except that at rump made sure to go there a few times before the election and it's hard for us voters who know who we have voted for and our states were for Hilsry yet Trump suddenly won as he came claiming these states could be his win? The guy is for himself and doesn't think wrong doing is wrong if he wins.
Good lord, and here I was just trying to make a funny when I posted as AC that if Clinton loses it'll be Russian hackers. (And if Trump had lost it would have been voter fraud.)
ACCEPT IT YOU GOD DAMNED WOMEN! YOU WANTED THIS! YOU SHOULD HAVE FUCKING VOTED FOR THE LIZARD PERSON INSTEAD! WHY THE FUCK DID YOU VOTE FOR TRUMP!
Hahaha! Fuck you, you women. Abortion is going to be illegal, Clinton isn't going to jail, and that wall isn't getting built! Hahaha you fucking morons. Here I voted for a lizard person to help you sacks of shit out, but you wanted Trump so now you've got Trump you fucking dumb bitches!!!
You don't give a shit about smashing glass ceilings. You damned women just like whining and whining and whining and bitchbitchbitch. Give it up! Trump won!
Trump! Trump! Trump!
Just like those women on the street corner were chanting all fucking weekend before the election, "Lock her up! Lock her up! Lock her up!" But you won't get that lol! You get abortion banned, but the lizard person won't be locked up! Brilliant!
jokes aside that Karl Rove process of accusing somebody of stuff you yourself do has been something the Dems have never learned to deal with let alone use to their own advantage.
/. for any one of the dozens of stories about Diebold voting machines.
We've known for years that the Republicans cheat during elections. It's easy because they had the money to take over the state and local legislatures where that sort of thing is done. Just search
Dems have to win elections by such wide margins that the right wing shenanigans get drowned out. This is why the Republicans shout the loudest about voter fraud. Hilary didn't just win the popular vote, she won it by 1.7 million votes and counting. It's extremely likely Trump, like Bush jr before him, lost this election.
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"...the effect COMPLETELY DISAPPEARS once you control for race and education levels."
See Nate Silver's tweet's here.
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
Hillary Clinton gave a concession speech. It was watched by millions of people. Learn to use Google--it's accessible via your Breitbart box.
She's no longer a candidate.
But we know that you don't have one.
IF the election results show an anomaly, why would we automatically assume hacking of voting machines instead of ballot-stuffing or other issues at polling places without electronic voting?
Last thing the DNC wants is recount. It just may happen so that election was actually rigged, but still was not rigged enough for Clinton to win.
Or maybe it is a sign that Clinton was cheating on the manual ballots.
The HBO documentary Hacking Democracy shows how easy it is. The Voting Machines In The Feature Film 'HACKING DEMOCRACY' Counted America's Votes In The November 2016 Elections.
During the 2004 presidential election in Florida, Gore had negative votes (or not enough positive ones to reach zero) on some of the voting machines. The smart card prior to being used is initialized and a summation of all the candidates votes is taken and checked to be zero. If some candidates have a positive number and others have negative values and the sum is zero, it passes its integrity check.
See http://www.hackingdemocracy.co...
Wanting to enforce immigration laws is not xenophobia.
Accurately pointing out violent, criminal illegal immigrants is not xenophobia.
Detesting sharia law is not xenophobia.
Wanting people to be treated by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin is not racism.
All lives matter is not racism.
Criticizing a judge who belongs to La Raza is not racism.
Treating women with the same vulgarity that we treat men with isn't sexism, or misogyny.
Holding a woman to a high standard of classified document handling isn't sexism, or misogyny.
Disagreeing with current abortion laws isn't sexism, or misogyny.
Disagreeing with coddling college students in "safe spaces" isn't bigotry.
I own *all* of that. You can continue your own personal bigotry against those who disagree with you by labeling them "extreme", but it might help if you actually looked past the MSM sound bites, and understand that Trump is a crass reaction to the smothering politically correct left wing that has gone to ridiculous extremes over the past 20 years.
Most things I can think of alternatives either have manipulable human intervention or compromise vote privacy.
Let's say you print a receipt to the voter with a key to check if the vote was logged correctly (and a matching paper record that is anonymous). That would put power in the hands of the people to detect hacking of the vote count, assuming the hack was in the recording of the vote, not the tabulation of recorded votes (the latter of which can be machine or human). But that risks compromise of voter privacy. After all, you have a potential trail back to the voter.
Let's say you do paper ballots which are anonymous but numbered. You can double-check via sampling every election to do "quality control" which would also detect tabulation hacking. The results of that, again, do no good with crooked election officials. Easy enough to cover up the tabulation error.
Keeping votes anonymous, preventing recording manipulation, and preventing tabulation and reporting manipulation all have to be dealt with or the subject of assumptions. Which ones do you want to preserve?
If Politifact rejects claims of rigging, then they just can not be true, can they be?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Trump did 7% worse in places with paper voting, suggesting that there were irregularities with paper voting.
The only good thing that can come out of this is a nationwide mandate to require paper ballots or some other "human-readable, voter-readable" official ballot like a Polaroid snapshot of the electronic voting machine's screen.
In the case of a Polaroid, the voter would inspect the Polaroid photo and say "cast ballot or void ballot and start over" as the last step when voting. This Polaroid photo would serves as the "official" ballot for recount purposes.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
The Senate, House, and local winners in those states are going to be livid because that could impact their races, too, so you can expect lots of home court resistance in each state to doing anything like this.
This would be Florida 2000 x5 or x10. Very bad.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
Nope.
The p-value you "calculate" is not for the hypothesis "the election was hacked." It is for the hypothesis "counties with electronic-only voting machines vote differently than counties with paper-trail voting machines." One, but only one, explanation for why they might be different is that the electronic, but not the paper trail, voting machines were hacked. The other explanation, not ruled out, is that the type of voting machine is indicative of counties that are different in other ways as well.
Also, I note that you are "computing" p-values without actually looking at data-- basically, you're recycling rumors. What is the standard deviation by county for counties that have electronic-only voting, and what is the deviation for counties that don't? You don't have that data. So, you actually can't calculate statistics.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
The article actually states they found no evidence of hacking, just they couldn't explain the 7% descripency in their data.
There are plenty of other factors I am sure they are not taking into account. They are probably looking at it from a purely CS standpoint.
Actually, America's interests would be served by doing a recount of some portio of the ballots to verify accuracy. Quite apart from who won, it's valuable to check, check, and check again to verify if there is an error or tampering.
But, yes, it may not be in the Democratic Party's best interest. Although to be frank, they are already being labelled "sore losers" despite conceding the election and explicitly instructing their supporters to accept the results, so I doubt it would make any difference in how they are perceived.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
She lost, fair and square - and I don't think she should contest anything. However, if any credible evidence is found this should be investigated - not to overturn this election, but to protect the validity of future elections.
Both choices for president were very flawed in different ways. Your logic is that if you support either candidate that their flaws reflect on the voter's personal character. See the cognitive distortion there yet? Hint: it's called black and white thinking. Why don't you own that as it seems to be a reflection of your character?
Both choices? Both? Seriously? There were states with more than 10 candidates on the ballot. I personally voted for Evan McMullen. He ended up with 20% of the popular vote in my state (we were hoping for some electoral votes). Trump won enough votes in the electoral college (assuming all delegates vote true), so we might as well pray for his success for the country's sake.
I am conservative, but Trump talks and acts without filtering anything. People don't understand when he's using sarcasm. He treats women as objects (probably as a result of so many years of being involved in beauty contests). He acts like someone born with a silver spoon. The media has misrepresented his stance on immigration (he wants to stop ILLEGAL immigration), calling him racist for it.
In every race, a recount from random sample of precincts AND a random sample of every type of voting machine needs to be done.
The main goal is to find counting equipment that is mis-configured, out of calibration, hacked, or otherwise faulty.
A secondary goal is to find MODELS or BRANDS of equipment that have higher-than-average failure rates.
Doing both will greatly increase the confidence in the outcome, which is very important in any election.
These recounts don't all have to be done by hand: They can be done using different equipment. For example, if the original ballots were scanned using Brand A equipment, re-count them using equipment from a competitor.
You need to do enough samples of precincts (to catch locally-targeted hacking or local poor upkeep of equipment) and types and brands of equipment (to catch design faults in the equipment) to have statistical confidence that the "counting-introduced margin of error" was acceptably small - that is, well below the margin-of-victory that would trigger an automatic hand-recount.
In states where there is no automatic hand recount provision, I would recommend enough testing that you can be 95% confident that the "counting-introduced margin of error" is less than 0.5% in all races and less than half of the margin of victory in races where the winner won by less than 1%.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
You are making it too simple. They'll cite string theory and claim Clinton won in a parallel universe.
They reached the wrong conclusion but then they are biased. My Occam's razor says the non-electronic ballots were manipulated by the Democrats. They would have far more experience in stuff the ballot box than manipulating the electronics. The electronics are correct, it's the paper ballots that are wrong!
After all, he was the one who repeated over and over that the election was rigged. This would be an opportunity for him to prove his point.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Actually, more about white vs. non-white. Trump swept whites in every economic, education, and sex category, except college-educated white women where Clinton scraped a razor-thin majority (51%).
Now let's talk working class whites. I grew up as non-white among working class whites, so I'm well aware that working class whites are a very diverse bunch. My best friends growing up were white. But I knew plenty of bigots too. The worst were twisted with pathological rage -- often alcoholism and abuse were part of their family background. They were people who felt so powerless they needed someone more vulnerable than them to take it out on. They weren't uncommon, but their existence in the group doesn't taint the entire group.
The Trump to Clinton ratio was 2::1 among voters who turned out. That stipulation is important, because Trump spent almost his entire campaign energizing his working class white supporters. So it's a pretty fair bet we're seeing a different sample of working class whites than we did in other recent presidential elections.
So the real mystery isn't why Trump won the working class whites; he courted them and energized the people within that group who might not have turned out. The real mystery is why educated white people, even nearly half of college-educated white women voted for him.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Here is where Democrat's are hypocrites. Trump claimed that voter fraud was a issue, but was told by Obama and every other Democrat that couldn't possible happen. Of course Clinton looses and all of a sudden the claims of fraud are being thrown by the very people who said there was none.
It doesn't matter anyway because she still won the popular vote and lost the electoral vote.
OFFS, just drop it!
Take a good look at the world we live in and then consider that question again. There are lots of things that go undone that it would be better done and vice-versa.
When the liberal calls someone racist, they admit they lost the debate and have nothing intelligent left to say.
From the rest of your post, I think that is confirmed. Liberalism lost because instead of being able to debate you resorted to calling everyone who didn't agree with you a racist. You have redefined the word because of your use of it. KKK has between 3,000 and 6,000 members, and I've seen nearly 60 million people called racist, so you are obviously wrong.
I think the DNC still has a couple of seats they can lose. Please keep calling voters racists so those can be taken from them as well.
Their was outcry before the election from Trump supporters for allowing Soros, someone who spent 10 million, that we know of, trying to get Clinton elected, to supply the voting machines.
Their is no reason to allow this, but the establishment did not care when legitimate concerns like this were raised.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
I said this before the election, when everyone assumed the election was going to have different results, and I will say it now. Why on earth do we allow contractors to build machines that are closed source?
No matter which way this election went, we were bound to have claims of fraud. I am not accusing one way or another here, it is just that without the ability for the public to audit the means of counting, it is unfair and unethical. The reason for a paper vote, as opposed to a voice vote, was partially as an audit trail and public record. The voting machines themselves should be audit-able before they begin counting and the public has a right to know that they have not been tampered with. It is a conflict of interest to have secretary of states be in charge of "verifying" the voting machines, while they themselves are often part of the political machine. While at some level, this is inevitable, we can introduce a measure of integrity through open sourcing of the machines themselves.
The government should require as part of the contract with voting machine producers, that the system is open and audit-able. They should test ahead of time and agree upon a finished version before the election. This version and hash code should be available to the public at each voting machine. It should be a crime to use "unverified" versions of the software, unless under direct orders from a judge.
WALLACE: Mr. Trump, I want to ask you about one last question in this topic. You have been warning at rallies recently that this election is rigged and that Hillary Clinton is in the process of trying to steal it from you.
Your running mate, Governor Pence, pledged on Sunday that he and you -- his words -- "will absolutely accept the result of this election." Today your daughter, Ivanka, said the same thing. I want to ask you here on the stage tonight: Do you make the same commitment that you will absolutely -- sir, that you will absolutely accept the result of this election?
Perhaps he should've asked Clinton that question?
> They are already being labelled "sore losers" despite conceding the election and explicitly instructing their supporters to accept the results
I'm sure SOMEBODY in the world called SOME Democrat a sore loser based on something they said. As one Slashdot's resident conservatives, I applauded Mrs. Clinton's concession speech. I post to Facebook about twice a year, and one of those was "Clinton showed some class this this morning". I thought it was worth bringing attention to her response to the election, which was more "statesman-like" than many politicians.
Your county must be doing something wrong. We also had about 25 items to vote on, but the paper voter card was one card and simple. Here's an example section:
President:
- Fred Smith.... [23] __
- Martha Jones [24] __
- Kermit Frog....[25] __
Proposition X: legalization of green pants:
- Yes.. [26] __
- No... [27] __
The actual voting card has numbered slots to fill in, like a school "Scan-Tron" test form. If you voted for Kermit, and voted "No" on Proposition X, you'd darken in the corresponding bubble, shown as "O" in Ascii art:
23 (_)
24 (_)
25 (O)
27 (_)
28 (O)
Etc...
The card can contain up to about 200 "slots", being it has about 4 columns, if I remember correctly.
A machine could optionally "print" (mark) the card for the voter to make things easy, but otherwise can be manually marked and/or checked by the voter if they want (including mailed in.) The machine counts can then be later verified against the physical cards. You can have the best of both worlds.
(Samples approximate only, due to limits of Ascii art.)
Table-ized A.I.
A pro Hillary government, using voting machines owned by pro-Hillary companies, gets rigged by the smallest cheapest campaign in the history of America.
The reason why we should think so? The exit polls, are off by a few percentage points, while the pre-election polls were off by 90 percentage points.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Or in other words...
Clinton did significantly BETTER in areas that used paper ballots. Yeah.
Any ballot postmarked election day is still being processed in WA and CA and a bunch of other states.
Last update had Trump lose by 2,100,000 votes.
Then one can sue over Russian hacking in a state which was in violation of gerrymandering laws according to the FEC ruling.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
So all those people across the country destroying property are not Democrats? Nor are all the people signing petitions to turn electors against Trump?
This is an example of what should be on the list of logical fallacies, the "ambiguous specifier". The post said "Why won't Democrats support the outcome?" What does that word "Democrats" specify? All Democrats? Some Democrats? Most Democrats? At least one Democrat? The official Democratic policy? The Democratic leadership?
The Democratic Party stated that they accepted the outcome of the election clearly, explicitly, and without qualifications. The Democrats most explicitly did support the outcome. If some individuals apparently don't, they are not doing so with the support of the Democratic party.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
Of course it was rigged. It was known long time ago.
In favor of Shillary!
Also 3 million illegal immigrants (and therefore illegal voters) voted for Shillary in no-id-required states.
Put this sick bitch in jail now!
I can't believe that all the people who voted for the orange, whiny, needy, wuss, who needs a safe space from being bullied by a bunch of actors in musical theater.
And they criticize millennials for needing a safe space?
The delicate little flowers supporting trump need to take a good in the mirror, and stop mistaking their ammo-sexuality and hiding behind weapons for bravery and manliness.
Every time I see someone with who is open carry I can only think: Chicken-shit coward who is afraid to go out without cute little uncles Smith and Wesson to take care of them.
I'm not a "precious little snowflake". So go f' yourself. I have legitimate reasons to fear Trump, to wit:
.com bust as companies bring trillions of dollars back to the USA in the wake of Trump tax cuts letting them off scott free and promptly embark on the biggest Merchants & Acquisitions buying spree in history. Oh, and look forward to prices skyrocketing as competition basically ends.
1. Repeal ACA. I have friends who depend on the medicare expansion to live. One's a Type-1 diabetic who until Obamacare didn't have enough insulin. Almost died a few times. He's 8 years older now and probably gonna die the next time.
2. End of Roe v Wade. My daughter has several congenital problems that might some day necessitate an abortion. Mike Pence would rather see her flown into God's embrace than risk the sin that is Abortion. Yeah, I'm being flippant by putting it that way, but it doesn't make it less true.
3. Cash repatriation. Got a job? Got friends with jobs? Prepare for the biggest round of layoffs since the
I could go on and on. Trump supporters who aren't millionaires are all fucked, and they've dragged me and my family and friends along for the ride. If you see a train coming your way and you can't get out of the way because of a gaggle of morons any sane person would react with fear.
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Throw the old bag in the clink and let time do the rest.
All the videos that I saw clearly show votes switch from Trump to Clinton, I did not see a single video of a vote switching from Clinton to Trump. Yes, there was an attempt to steal the election, but it was Clinton that was doing it.
If she challenges the results at this point, then she will be showing her true colors that she doesn't care that this nation would be ripped apart by Civil War.
Or maybe, it's because with e voting, you can't pre-fill the ballots you hand out in the buses you use to cart poor people to the "important" polling stations?
There is no way she will contest the election now - she already accepted the result. Its a key difference between hated liberals and sainted conservatives.
Well ... not unless Trump starts setting up a military Junta or something and you'all start BEGGING her to contest it.
Both sides were cheating in this election. I couldn't say which cheated worse. What I can say is that the Supreme Court wouldn't look favorably upon the challenge. It doesn't really matter that it's valid, what matters is that it's useless.
And based on the prior instance, after they rule, they'll seal the evidence so that nobody can see it for the next 50 years.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
The actual article states the exact oposite. What the living fuck?
"Were this year’s deviations from pre-election polls the results of a cyberattack? Probably not. I believe the most likely explanation is that the polls were systematically wrong, rather than that the election was hacked."
1. An 8 year old kid should be covered by CHIP and SCHIP. If they couldn't afford insulin, they can't afford the copays before insurance in ACA starts paying out. There is 0% chance you are telling the truth here. Lying does not help your debate points.
ACA deductible is usually $6000 before any coverage (assuming 100% covered subsidy for premium which is unlikely). Insulin cost 1 year is about $3000. The ACA isn't possibly helping with insulin in the least. Like I said, you lied, and you KNOW you did. This is why Trump won, we are tired by being fed shit and lied about it. You are the problem that caused Trump to get elected, own up to it.
2. Perhaps you should have listened to him then, "It will go to the states to decide". Once again you lied to make a point. That's twice you had to outright, and knowingly lie to make a point.
3. Pure speculation. I won't call you a liar on this, but it may turn out that way.
You said "blatantly illegal"--words have meaning and facts are real things. Back up your claim or you're just another liar on the internet.
Nate has since turned it into a full article:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/demographics-not-hacking-explain-the-election-results/
Republicans have been for a long time calling for voter ID, voting machines to be made only in the US for US elections, and open source code that can be independently reviewed for security and accuracy, along with an online validation system that ties your voter ID to the vote, so you can log on and verify that your vote has been properly counted. It is the Democrats that are the party of criminals (8:1, look it up) the party of dead voters, the party of voter fraud, the party of illegal alien voters, the party of pay to vote (a la free booze for homeless etc.), the party of busing mental deficients to polling places, the party of basically any kind of voter fraud you can think of, and some you probably couldn't. I am not a huge fan of Trump, but his message resonated: "I am just a guy, a successful business owner, who is sick of Washington politics. They are wrecking the country and destroying the middle class. Vote for me, warts and all and I will clean house and try to get the country back to where it was in 1985."
If you are paying attention, it already seems pretty clear from his changing positions that he is not a radical guy and he can be persuaded by reasonable arguments. Democrats need to stop believing their own propaganda. The election is over. Time to sack up and judge Trump's actions.
As far as the 7% differential, in a vacuum that is absolutely meaningless and is just a bunch of butt hurt losers. If you can find counties that voted only for Trump (like the counties that voted 100% for Obama in previous elections) or that every voting machine county voted EXACTLY 7% (hint, they didn't) or other real statistical anomalies, then you can allege hacking. The real headline should read: "Butt hurt Democrats unable to find any hacking in election machines, still bitching about losing."
If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
There's no way she'll open that Pandora's Box. Keep in mind that there were even larger discrepancies in counties with electronic vote machines during the Democratic primaries that tilted the result in her favor over Bernie Sanders.
Both choices? Both? Seriously? There were states with more than 10 candidates on the ballot. I personally voted for Evan McMullen
Ok Mr./Mrs. Pedant calm down. Take a chill pill and come back down to reality. You're splitting hairs. There are two major political parties, Republican and Democrat. I'm pretty sure you're not stupid enough to not recognize that was implied. I did notice that Gary Johnson scored a record high popular vote for the Libertarian party but come on now. You're acting as if an independent political candidate has any realistic chance of winning a presidential election in the United States. Certain things we need to happen in order for the generally stupid American public to feel compelled to think outside the box. Have you ever bothered to look at the track record of independent candidates over history? So, what do you want to gripe about? That the American public is too stupid to realize they have other choices besides Red and Blue? Go right ahead but I'll tell you it's a complete waste of time and energy and you only get so much in this life.
If you're really that butt hurt over it and you really want to change things, organize a grass roots campaign to change American politics. Ranting and raving on Slashdot isn't going to do a damn thing except possibly get you all worked up to the point that you have a heart attack. Geesh.
We'll make great pets
I think the confusion is that it happened the next day. On the night of the election, she went to bed while we were all waiting on results and eventually I think it was Podesta that told everyone to just go home.
msmash is WITH HER, right?
Also, what's up with this Electoral College garbage. Seriously, it's 2016, not 1776.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
That's some middle-age thinking.
Is this an example of the type of 'fake news' Obama fears & needs to be 'controlled'?
Luckily the summary included a link to one of the security researches telling us what he ACTUALLY said....which had nothing to do with any particular 'evidence' of hacking only the premise that the electronic voting totals COULD have been hacked. The guy is basically saying that in states with close races that on its face, having someone confirm vote totals in a state that uses electronic voting systems should be done. He did NOT say that he had evidence of any kind suggesting the voting system was hacked.
To that extent the CNN article (and I'm sure many other 'liberal' media sites) will ignore that this is a 'general statement' about the lack of security of electronic voting systems & just blow this up in to 'computer scientists think vote was rigged'. The Slashdot moderators need to stop linking to ANY 'mainstream media' site ASAP until they clean up their act.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/demographics-not-hacking-explain-the-election-results/
Here you go.
Isn't this the same group that assured all the voters that the election results could not possibly be manipulated when Trump suggest just that, prior to the election? And the same group that, given Hilary's higher popular vote numbers, are calling for the abolition of the Electoral College?
I think that Wolf Blitzer and the rest of the CNN crew and still grumpy that Hillary lost. Well get over it Wolfie - you got your ass handed to you. Despite your one sided reporting and thinly veiled rooting for Hillary you lost.
CNN and MSNBC and others are just pissed off that they have been exposed as surrogates of the Democrat party. I think that a lot of people have long suspected that is the case but now it is in full view. If you want to hear Democrat cheerleaders then go to CNN or MSNBC. If you want to hear Republican cheerleaders then go to FOX. If you want the actual truth, you know that thing that used to be called "news", then you are going to have to go to a variety of web sites and other outlets and try to filter out all the political BS. That's what the world has come to.
...by various analysts, including the un-conservative Nate Silver: "Some *very* quick analysis which suggests the claim here of rigged results in Wisconsin is probably BS: Run a regression on Wisc. counties with >=50K people, and you find that Clinton improved more in counties with only paper ballots. HOWEVER: the effect COMPLETELY DISAPPEARS once you control for race and education levels, the key factors in predicting vote shifts this year. Maybe a more complicated analysis would reveal something, but [it’s] usually bad news when a finding can’t survive a basic sanity check like this. Nothing in Pennsylvania, either, whether or not you control for demographics. And Michigan has paper ballots everywhere, so not even sure what claim is being made there."" https://twitter.com/NateSilver...
He called the election rigged, he should stand by his words.
...STUPID!
I have voted in several places over the years. In NJ we used to use these lever machines with a punched card in the back. Each lever was labeled with a candidate/race/issue/whatever. They'd run it through a punched card reader to tabulate the results after you voted. You saw them remove the cartridge with the card in it from the voting machine between each voter. It was rather reliable and obvious.
In MD now, we use a bubble sheet like a standardized test. You bubble it out and then insert it into the reader yourself. Election worker verifies it got read and you leave.
I would rather have either of these systems than a person in control of tabulating the votes. First, the political parties have judges in each precinct that can go over attempts at fraud or damaged ballots. Second, at the end of the night, they can re-tabulate the ballots as necessary to verify the vote counts.
I really do not see the problem with the system as it exists in any of the places I have lived.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
the left need their own Fox News. If MSNBC was 1/3 what Fox was this would be on air and on their site non-stop for the next 4 years. That said I don't think Liberals can support a Fox News equivalent. Go watch Fox sometime, and watch the adverts the come on. Every single one is a scam of some kind or another. The left don't have a base that can support that kind of shenanigans.
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You need to get some.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
Unite. Queen hillary cant be stopped.
Get over it. You lost. This is the way America works.
Among the many problems with this is that I'm told that all counties in Michigan use paper ballots, so arguments that there is a 7% difference between paper ballots and voting machines are bogus. Can anyone name any Michigan county that didn't use paper ballots.
What the hell is Jill Stein whining about? Does she think that she had enough votes anywhere to change anything??? Or is it just an attention getting stunt (rhymes with .... ) to waste money (and perhaps steal some)?
I love all the stupid stories about trying to get the electoral college members to change their votes. Particularly Hillary supporters trying to get votes changed in states where she supposedly won, just to show that the system is flawed. Hillary was a senator and could have introduced an amendment to change that system but never did. Some fools even think they can make a difference by assuring that no one gets to 270 in the electoral college. Do they really think that the Republican Majority who then has to decide the election will give it to Hillary????
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
The various types of voting machines aren't distributed randomly, so the first question is the assumption that any difference between electronic voting machines and optical scanners is the result of tampering and not a difference in the types of municipalities that choose electronic voting machines vs the types of municipalities that choose optical scanners.
In particular, electronic voting machines are more expensive, so you'd think they represent wealthier tax bases than the area that went for the cheaper options. The fact wealthy areas are slightly more republican leaning isn't exactly a huge shock.
I keep hearing this matra of how rare vote fraud is. Yet I have personally witnessed fraud occurring twice in my life, without looking for it. If I have stumbled over vote fraud twice, which makes me think that it happens rather frequently.
The first instance of fraud I observed was in Durham, NC in the early 1990s. A woman in line to vote in front of me had moved house but voted in her former district. This was apparent because she initially gave an incorrect address, but then amended her answer to her old address when the new one didn't work. From her reactions and mannerisms, it was plainly apparent to all that she we lying about where she currently lived.
In the second instance occurred 10 years later, shortly after I myself had moved to a new city. A local politician in my former town mailed me an absentee ballot and told me to fill it out and send it back in. (I declined).
The first fraud would probably not impact national elections since it merely shifted votes from one district to another. But the second case presented the opportunity to vote twice.
I have no hard data on how often vote fraud actually occurs. But if I've personally seen it twice myself, that strongly suggests that it is happening more than 31 times in 14 years.
Inhale my funky Soros snatch
He, like all U.S. citizens lost the legitimately elected leader of their nation, thus he has as much standing as we all do. If in fact that was the case. However the Hillary email server controversy still doesn't make sense to me. Dunno...
Listen carefully, for I shall say this only once!
It was the Russians.
didnt she win the popular though
They're certain he won fair and square and keep on saying there's a mandate for him, right?
If they're smart, they'll insist on a recount so that they can remove any doubt about the legitimacy of this election.
If they're actually interested in democracy, they'll want to make sure that everything is above board.
I actually don't know why we don't automatically recount after an election, period, if only to make sure we got something this important correct.
Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
No, you can't say that for sure at all.
Plenty of people voted for Clinton who disliked her, because they disliked (or worse) the only other person who could possibly win. Lesser of two evils and all that.
Of course there might be people who don't dislike Clinton, even admire her avarice and open ambition for power over all else. In fact, in his heart of hearts, Trump probably likes Clinton, or at least admires her ruthlessness.
And, most importantly of all, plenty of people didn't vote because they disliked both candidates AND their states (like NY and Cali) were never, ever, ever going to go for Trump. Voting for POTUS in those states is purely an act of civic duty, or perhaps personally satisfying, but will not affect the outcome in any but the most upside-down election. Which, despite all the embarrassing hand-wringing, was not the case here.
Finally nobody 'won' the popular vote, because the US presidential voting election is not a competition for the popular vote. Maybe it should be, but it isn't. Therefore making analysis and pronouncements based on what is merely a statistical side-effect is not only pointless, it is disingenuous and anti-intellectual.
All we have to do is count the absentee ballots in the firm red states (none of them have been counted for lack of mathematical possibility to change the state's outcome) and trump picks up another couple million votes at least.
Here’s my top ten list of things that are racist because they require an ID:
#10 Buying alcohol – You can’t legally purchase alcohol anywhere in the United States unless you are at least 21-years old. You also can’t purchase alcohol without showing proper ID, even if you look old enough. Not only is this practice racist because many minorities don’t have identification, but it also promotes ageism and profiling. We can help heal the racial wounds of the past by taking everyone at their word that they are old enough to buy a 40 of malt liquor.
#9 Buying cigarettes – Same deal as with alcohol, only the age requirement varies from state to state. As you know, many smokers are poor and many poor people are minorities so this is doubly racist. In any case, letting 8-year olds buy a pack of Kools is a great way to take a stand against racism.
#8 Renting a car – Can you believe those racist assholes that rent cars actually want to know who you are before they hand over the keys to $40,000 automobile? Rental cars are already covered by insurance; what’s the big deal?
#7 Seeing a movie – Even though the MPAA ratings are not bound by law, movie theater employees will card younger looking patrons before selling them tickets to rated R films. How are minorities supposed to see Tyler Perry and Robert Rodriguez movies when they don’t have the ID to prove they are old enough? It’s like Jim Crow all over again.
#6 Buying a video game – No Game Stop in the country is going to let a teenager walk out of the store with an M rated game without them proving they are at least 17 years old. Denying access to violent video games is something the Nazis did, not a post-racial society.
#5 Bowling – For some racist reason a bowling alley won’t let people bowl in their street shoes. You either have to buy a pair of bowling shoes or rent them from the alley. If you opt for renting, those jerks are going to ask to hold your ID until you return the shoes. This is clearly an example of a de facto tax on the fundamental right to use a large black ball to knock over skinny white pins.
#4 Banking – You can’t open a bank account, write a check, or cash a check without ID. This racist practice of ensuring people are who they say they are and thus should have access to their money is a financial burden on the minority community. If we could eliminate the ID requirement, redistribution of wealth would be easy to attain as the poor would have unrestricted access to much richer folks bank accounts.
#3 Accessing national parks – A few years ago I had to show a valid ID to get on the ferry to see the Statue of Liberty. Earlier this year I had to leave a valid ID to borrow the recorded tour device at Andrew Jackson’s estate. Why can’t the federal government take my word that I’m not going to blow anything up or that I’ll return something that probably cost a couple hundred dollars?
#2 Flying – Restricting free movement is probably the most racist thing of all. You cannot board a plane without ID and that puts minorities at a distinct disadvantage. Instead, the TSA should simply ask flyers if they are a terrorist and if they have Ebola. If the answer is no to both; let ‘em on the plane. Who would lie about these things?
#1 Gun Ownership – Unlike the other things on this list, which are implied rights, gun ownership is a specific right protected by the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution. You can’t buy a gun without a valid ID, you can’t possess a gun without valid ID, and you can’t carry a gun without valid ID. If requiring people to show ID to vote is racist, then so is requiring ID to exercise the right to ke
You may just wind up with a civil war that your side cannot possibly win.
Nobody wants a war like that, but if you keep pushing and pushing and pushing, that exactly what you'll get.
Just remember, our side is better armed than your side.
Did this 'analysis' consider the underwhelming support the septuagenarian white woman (HRC) enjoyed from the black community and whether those majority-minority districts had paper or electronic voting machines? I strongly suspect that the large, Democrat-controlled major cities in MI, WI, and PA have the crucial combination of electronic voting machines and indifferent/unenthusiastic minority voters...
Actually, America's interests would be served by doing a recount of some portio of the ballots to verify accuracy.
Well if we are doing that how about we start in California? After all wouldn't it be interesting to get a count without factoring in votes from illegal aliens?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Right there is all you need to know about who was hacking the election counts... Trump's rallies were around 10,000 people at a time, and he did far more of them than Clinton - Clinton's rallies were around 1,000 people at a time, yet the JEW media kept telling us that they were neck and neck in the polls...
Moderators, if you are going to update the story, update it so that it is accurate (the computer scientists didn't say ANYTHING about there being a '7%' difference in electronic vs paper based states. And they were only making a point that the election was close in certain states with electronic voting systems so someone should challenge those 'just in case'). Please also remove the links to sites promoting this 'fake news' story. Obama will appreciate it. I man, seriously, read their own words rather than the fake news stories from CNN etc., the link is right there after all.
The claim is that the "DNC was caught red handed doing things that are blatantly illegal". That is a statement of fact, it is either true or false. There's nothing subjective there. My question is, WHAT LAWS WERE BROKEN?
You've yet to produce a cite which says that any laws were broken, therefore I claim that you are full of shit. Feel free to prove me wrong.
Contested results? Sounds like Bernie Sanders still has a chance then?
they are already being labelled "sore losers" despite conceding the election and explicitly instructing their supporters to accept the results
They're not being "labeled" as "sore losers". They are if fact being sore losers. Challenging the results of an election is not "conceding".
The whole point of TFA is that the Democrats are not challenging the result of the election, but the writer thinks that they should.
Learn to read.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
In both years, the sort of voter who voted for Trump was just as terrified at the prospects of Obama and his "fundamental transformation" of America as Clinton supporters are now. Millions feared they would lose their health insurance and doctors, and indeed over 10 million DID. They feared the Democrats under Obama would put their program of replacing traditional Americans with millions of immigrants into overdrive and indeed Obama did. They feared Obama would further try to cement Democrat control by addicting millions more to government handouts, and indeed he did - there are now four times as many on food stamps and millions of illegals are getting benefits including in California where contrary to Democrat promises the Democrats have included illegals into Obamacare.
In neither 2008 nor 2012 did any Republicans/conservatives riot, burn flags, use entertainment outlets like TV and movies and music and plays to assert that Obama was a monster who would throw millions into internment camps, enslave people, destroy the planet, etc.
Republicans/conservatives accepted the vote count, rather than pretending McCain or Romney was the REAL winner, if one simply counted by some other method or used some other criteria to decide the winner. Republicans/conservatives opposed Obama by legitimate political means, using what little power they had in congress, and the limited internet, talk radio, and ONLY TV channel not kissing Obama's butt.
Oh, it does not matter if Hillary won the popular vote... that's like saying the winner of the superbowl is illegitimate because some the losing team racked-up more yards in the game. You win or lose by the rules as set BEFORE the game is played (which is the basic concept of democracy that the US Supreme Court upheld in 2000 when it stopped Gore's endless re-counts of only CERTAIN ballots in CERTAIN areas. The court ruled that you could not, in effect, change the criteria for votes AFTER the votes are cast).
that's what put Trump in the Whitehouse. Voter suppression + Shenanigans got us Trump. More, nothing less. Blacks are 6 times more likely to wait more than an hour to vote than whites (look it up). That's not an accident. It's also no accident that folks convicted of a crime can't vote even after paying their debt to society or that registering to Vote gets you Jury duty (a death sentence to 66% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck).
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wahhh
By who? Surely those stupid democrats already gave up their guns!
http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2016/11/08/some-problems-reported-as-voters-head-to-polls/
Yet she still lost even with documented evidence of electronic voting booth machines changing the people's choices when they picked Trump. Meanwhile.. in a deep dark corner of the his socialist/communist sphere of influence... George Soros is sadly trying to find his happy place while he cries a river of failboat...
Maybe he should initiate a group hug with Michael Bloomberg.. they both want to change the world from the outside.. with money... influence and a left-wing biased media engine that is still coming to grips with how they didn't win their trophy.
And thus... a flurry of snowflakes was born.. only to turn into droplets of dew that hopefully landed on agriculture that needed the moisture.
Peace out.
You have NO IDEA how my country works and have the nerve to come on here every day and bash my President and my countrymen who voted to put him in office? Go worry about your own silly little country and stop your ignorant moronic rants about mine!
Not true. USC-LA times poll got it right.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/...
Other polls were closer when actually run, but published results were skewed by editors and partisans.
If you won't wait an hour to vote you should lose.
Elections have consequences. Suddenly all those people wish they had voted. Like the protesters in Portland who hadn't even voted.
Maybe in four years we will have 75% or higher turnout. Would be interesting.
..that Clinton who is already proven to be corrupt could only rig the paper ballot states.
"Stop Whining." -Obama
Polling: If the voter had said T had his/her vote, he/she was forced to defend him/her-self against the legions of Americans who had been trained by our media to label voter a RACIST, WOMAN HATING, LOW EDUCATION, UN-AMERICAN NAZI MF.
I'n reality=
Voter had just lost his/her job to the foreigner he/she had been forced to train, and just spent the last few months scraping by, while at the same time, listening to his/her peers say "that's fucked up", and "WOW, how is that legal?"
-OR-
Voter had been working the same job for decades, and lost it due to off-shoring on account of developing countries doing what developing countries do.
Voter knew the loss of his/her company health insurance was going to cost him/her(it?) another $700 bucks come tax season.
Voter saw the big-round-orange face saying things that would make his/her life suck less. Voter made an informed decision, based on what the "T" said; VS what the the "H" said.
Voter was angry. Voter was tired of defending himself, and sure as hell not about to face off against a journalist with a mic outside of the voting booth, or on the phone, or in front of his/her school, gym, etc.
Voter also happened to live in a state less populated than CA and NY.
It's a complicated situation. HRC will be listening to her faithful ape this kind of thinking for the rest of her life. Changes nothing.
Voter still knows better than to talk about the choice he/she made.
You are being ripped off every second of every day, so that advertisers can help rip you off even more tomorrow.
THIS is the problem with US Americans.
Going in to vote on 30 things should take less than 10 minutes, and really less than 5 but it's good to look over everything once to be sure of no simple errors.
You don't go in and read up on those 30 things at the voting booth. The vote is your chance to EXPRESS your desires, not to learn. You should have read up on every item on the ballot. Maybe you don't have time/desire to learn enough to feel able to make an informed decision; those you leave blank or write in 'abstain' or whatever your country does*.
It's not fucking rocket science.
Stop watching TV for a few hours, find out who/what is on the ballot, and go in informed. Don't fucking complain about having to vote on 25 things like it's bad. It's your one fucking chance, mr. 99.9%, to have any impact at all on society and culture.
*in some places ballot defacement is a crime, but I always wonder how that could possibly be enforced!
Uhm putting cats in a bag doesn't mean "put an open bag on the ground and put the cats in the middle of it" it means "holding a bag, put cats in the bag," and when they're *very* unhappy and attacking the container they won't realize that their claws and fangs are sometimes intersecting their friends.
Why do you think "the cat's out of the bag" means a one-way change? It ain't goin' back in; it feels that cats in bags end up in rivers, historically, well enough.
Couldn't the exact same trend be interpreted as "Trump did 7% worse in counties that depended on people tallying votes instead of computers."? When did Slashdotters start trusting humans moan than machines? Oh that's right, when politics got involved.
I know people who never vote but this time they went and voted for Trump because they're disgusted by the impact of Obamacare on their wallet. You can't opt out of the health insurance if your employer is forced by Obama to have one.
Obamacare is not about healthcare. It's about forcing small businesses and their employees to become customers of the insurance companies who fund the Democrats. No wonder people are rejecting it.
lucm, indeed.
would not accept the results of the election. Of course, as usual, the Dims were just projecting....
5 out of 6 people enjoy Russian Roulette & 6 out of 7 Dwarfs are not Happy
Which is the real election fraud. Almost all the causes the voter ID fraudsters point to are actually cases of voter registration fraud, which is impossible to prevent with ID's. And almost all of the rest of the cases they can point to are cases of felons trying to vote, or someone voting in person as well as by absentee ballot - also not preventable by voter ID.
Mickey Mouse trying to vote in person is on the order of 30 votes out a billion cast, or functionally non-existent. Contrast that to 70,000 voters purged from the rolls in Florida, just in one state, in just one election in 2000.
1) The hell the have 2) there goes your right to remain anonymous, genius.
You misspelled Republicans,, moran.
Went through all of the visible comments moderated insightful or funny, and I think yours may have been the best of the lot. However, still lots of room for improvement.
With regards to your closing question about turnout, I think you should consider it more broadly. Why did roughly 45% of ALL the voters not bother to vote? I think it's because they are right to believe that their votes don't matter. I think the main reason is because their districts are gerrymandered, and the politicians pick their voters first, so the voters know they have no chance to affect the outcome. Also significant is that the ONLY thing that the two parties can actually work together on is making sure that incumbents are favored as much as possible, which is why so many of the politicians in the weaker party may still support the gerrymandering. They wind up in sacrificial districts that are saturated with the excess voters.
Overall disappointment with the discussion was lack of consideration of the potential of hackers. Or maybe those topics simply got dragged into invisibility by the professional trolls? I certainly can imagine Putin ordering the attempt as long as he was certain it couldn't be traced. I don't think he could be convinced it was certain, however, and it would be an act of war if he'd gotten caught.
However, I still think the decisive factor that tilted the enthusiasm and the election in Trump's favor was Comey's letter--and that it may have been instigated by a Russian mole. Trump was getting battered on 20 fronts, but after that letter was publicized, suddenly all the focus was on Hillary's email again.
Then Comey sends the never-mind letter, and now Trump also says he was just kidding the mob while they chanted "Lock her up!" More fun than a barrel of monkeys. On fire.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
According to various reports, the Stein initiative is now asking for at least $4.5m for the recount to proceed in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. The Verge is reporting that the total sum necessary for a recount including attorney fees will likely be greater than $6m. My personal opinion is that this is money well spent simply to ensure the integrity of the electoral system in the United States.
/* Dang, I can't type that well. */
Love this site for technology but politics shows your youth and naivety. Question everything.
If she is so concerned about all the votes that may have been "hacked in" and "stolen" from Hillary - why did she run against her and steal votes from Hillary. The increase in votes SHE got was due to people dissatisfied with Hillary. She should just sit down and STFU! She has nothing to talk about. She stole votes from Hillary herself! Nothing here move along......
The Truth is a Virus!!!
"Were this year’s deviations from pre-election polls the results of a cyberattack? Probably not." - End
He ought to say something about the election fraud during the primary too. Suck it up, buttercup.
along with an online validation system that ties your voter ID to the vote, so you can log on and verify that your vote has been properly counted.
Only crooks and criminals want to link a vote to the voter. Freedom comes from privacy and anonymity. Ignoring the wrong solutions to the voting process you made, the real solution is to eliminate stupid machines that won't print a paper evidence of the vote.
"But in April of that year, the Supreme Court, in a case called McCutcheon v. Federal Election Commission, struck down aggregate limits on total giving to federal campaigns, allowing maximum donations to as many different committees as a donor wanted."
This was all completely legal.
Words have meaning, laws are laws, facts are facts. Something doesn't become "blatantly illegal" just because a bunch of whiny internet morons think it's unfair. You can't change facts by chanting a lie in unison.
As Entrope points out, "statistical" adjustments are a very bad idea. Since the actual votes are not paired to the voters, that would mean "adjusting" (i.e., throwing out votes) based on how (some authority) decides to guess the illegal voters voted.
Analyzing voter rolls to identify illegal voters would be a good idea--- if nothing else, as a way to try to kill that idiotic statement repeated over and over again by right-wing nuts with no evidence whatsoever that the election is invalid because so many illegal people vote.
Although the problem with trying to kill conspiracy theories with data is that the people who believe the conspiracy theories just dismiss the data as more evidence for how widespread the conspiracy actually is.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
Hillary Clinton got 16.8 million primary votes to Bernie's 13.2 million. She won handily in both the popular vote and delegate total. She would have won by a huge margin even if there was no such thing as a superdelegate.
If the truth doesn't matter at all anymore, then why do we even both talking to each other?
It's worth noting that if you actually read the article, he doesn't say that the ballots actually were hacked: in fact, what he says is "Were this year’s deviations from pre-election polls the results of a cyberattack? Probably not. I believe the most likely explanation is that the polls were systematically wrong, rather than that the election was hacked."
If you were talking about one or a few polls I would agree with your premise that we should not investigate these allegations. However, it is valid to notice that every single poll agency in the United States, including the agency hired by Trump, they all failed to even come closed to their statistical predictions.
Nope. The analysis by 538 published before the election was that Clinton was ahead by a number that was equal to the polling margin of error. "it shouldn’t be hard to see how Clinton could lose. She’s up by about 3 percentage points nationally, and 3-point polling errors happen fairly often, including in the last two federal elections." (November 6: http://fivethirtyeight.com/fea... )
Another one worth reading: http://fivethirtyeight.com/fea...
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
I highly doubt the Democrat party would want to risk verifying accuracy since it is more likely that Democrats commit voter fraud then Republicans.
No evidence whatsoever for that statement.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
If that's not the best measure of popularity then it is poorly named.
And it was a damn well written and well presented speech, too. Far better than anything she presented during the campaign. There was no trace of her trademark shrill screeching, and gave her a completely new tone and impression. I was impressed, and I am about as strongly anti-Hillary as it is possible to be.
Why don't they look at how many illegal immigrants and dead people voted.
I suspect there was more vote rigging in favor of Clinton than against, considering that she basically only won states where there was no voted ID requirements.
It's funny because in light of Trump winning the election, the polls obviously were rigged.
He was right about the election being rigged, at least in that part.
If the Electoral College is in doubt and misses its date, the House may decide.
"The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately choose by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner choose the President. " - a quote from Article II, Section 1.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
If the truth doesn't matter at all anymore, then why do we even both talking to each other?
Because "your" truth is only so from the perception that everything was on the up and up and not a collusion to let her win the primary.
My truth comes from going to a few events for Her and Bernie. Her events were literally devoid of anyone. A few hundred at events that should see thousands. His events? The crowds were like sporting events.
I am not sure what America you live, but "truth" is what I see, in the world.
The truth is, she won in a primary rigged for her to win, voted on by a block of people that would really only ever vote for her as Bernie wasnt even in their "party" -- as stupid as that is.
I think we can all agree that they were both unpopular. The result can be argued 6 ways from Sunday, but the reason could be pretty simple.
Like Obama, Trump ran on a "change" platform while Clinton ran on a "more of the same" platform. The democrats have been in power for 8 years, just like the republicans the 8 years before that. Considering the margins we're all talking about it really could be that simple. Governments flip back and forth and politicians tend to blame everything on the previous politicians. You could have probably ran a soda can VS a paper clip and gotten the same result.
The irony here is that it was the Greens and Libertarians that cost her the election. Forget about Russians hacking and the Electoral college, she got Perot'd by people voting for outlet parties. There was no lesser of 2 evils in this election: Clinton and Trump were both loser candidates. It just so happens that the Greens and Lib'ers were legitimate outlets.
by the Clinton Slush Fund - to have votes "recounted" so it doesn't look like Shillary is fighting the results.
Hey, at least Trump is creating jobs like he promised...
I think Mr. J. Alex Halderman, while respected in his field of computer security, should stay there. His expertise isn't on statistics, or statistical analysis, and coming to such conclusions on such flimsy analysis is just bad. Publishing before eliminating even the most rudimentary external factors is just poor form -- assuming he himself isn't biased.
That claim is false. Either you agree that the claim was false or you are a liar.
You are trying to change the subject--which is apparently what people do nowadays when they are caught in a lie, and that has contributed to this environment of fake news and information. Yes or no, did Hillary win the primary popular vote?
The only correct answer is YES--and thus the post by Hylandr was a LIE. Those are facts--absolutely irrefutable facts. I'm not going to debate them because they are not debatable.
Once we've established that incontrovertible fact--we can move on to discussing whether the primary was stacked against Bernie. IMO, yes--it was, just like it was stacked against Barack Obama in 2008. But Obama was a far better candidate with far broader appeal and he overcame the establishment bias. Bernie fought a valiant fight but fell short. In hindsight, I wish I had voted for him and I wish he had won. Not because I think he would have been a better president (I agreed more with Hillary's positions, I think she's smarter, more pragmatic, more experienced and harder working) but it really does look like Bernie would have had a better shot against Trump based on how the general election turned out.
Asshole.
Fuck Trump
Hey Millennials and baby boomers....
See what happens when you ignore history... IT REPEATS ITSELF.
Pretty me guess... Diebold machines?
Queue all the "my tweet counts as my vote" crowd.
Not to mention probably the same ones that cried out for Trump to "just accept the results"
I'd like to sum up my thoughts with "At this point what difference does it make?" And (2008/2012 Dems Including Obama and Pelosi) We won, you lost, get over it.
These are states run by Democrats. If any cheating was to have been done, it would have benefited Clinton, not Trump. Although with their decided lack of computer skills, maybe they tilted the votes to the wrong person.
In Michigan - where I live (.vs. what I read on the Internet) the voting machines are op-scan units that read your paper ballot. At the end of the day they print on paper a summary sheet. The machine has no connection to the Internet, or the telephone system, and are the same machines they have used for years and years. There are no "electronic voting machines" we are a paper ballot op-scan state. Optical Scanning is pretty darn reliable...
The person floating this theory is from the U of M. which is located in the town of Ann Arbor, who's motto is "7 square miles surrounded by Reality". Around here, it's known as "AA" or "A squared' which most folks outside of "The Biosphere" jokingly say is an abbreviation for "Arrogant Assholes". As the joke goes, the three things you can't find in Ann Arbor are 1) A parking Place 2) A good Steak 3) A Republican. It is the epicenter of Michigan Snow Flakery, where rich liberal kids attend an uber-left college. One should take anything coming from the U of M faculty with a very large grain of salt. It's a pretty little town, but it's no secret it's a progressive paradise.
Within hours of this accusation Michigan's elections director expressed skepticism....
Murphy was an optimist
It's done, it's over....Trump is your President.
We had to survive Obama, you'll survive Trump.
There are 2 groups of people you can make fun of on the Internet without fear of attack. The illiterate, and the Amish.
which is why he's alive. He's only able to get on Medicaid because the ACA expanded who could be on it by giving the states billions in subsidies.
There's a _lot_ more to the ACA then the exchanges and the Mandate. Those are the bad parts nobody (including Obama) wanted without other things to balance them. We didn't get those balancing items because Obama had to rush through to get it passed before the numskulls that voted for Trump gave him a Republican congress.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
You don't get to make up your own facts.
AS neither do you? Fact: I attended rallies Fact: One person had more people at said rallies than the other You can not like it all you want.
So...when Trump didn't say he'd accept the election results, he was derided by Hillary and mocked by her supporters. Trump supporters were effectively told to be adults and accept the results. Trump wins, Hillary supporters riot, damag cities and burn things.
Trump insinuates election rigging, which it has been shown that the DNC engages in, and he's mocked. Yet now that this recount starts, Hillary supporters are claiming election rigging.
First of all, this demonstrates a double standard. You can't mock and deride one side then claim the exact same thing. Second, it's highly suspicious that someone who had been pro Trump to a degree now attempts to initiate recounts in states only where Trump won by a narrow margin. This sort of shit happens in third world dictatorships.
Either way, interested in how this plays out. Watching the various interactions, biases, and end results has been fascinating.
The debate was whether or not Bernie won the popular vote in the democratic primary. It is an incontrovertible fact that he did NOT. We don't elect people based on attendance at rallies.
I can't tell at this point whether you are trolling or just really believe that you can alter reality by stomping your feet and yelling.