Slashdot Mirror
Grand Theft Auto Still Banned Down Under
SicariusMan sent us a CNN story that talks about australia upholding the ban on GTA3. It's been
mentioned here before, but
its interesting that its gonna stick. GTA3 really is perhaps the best PS2 game out in recent memory.
I'm having a PS2 resurgance of late, beating Klonoa2, MGS2, Baldur's Gate: Dark
Alliance, and getting hooked on Jak and Daxter and Frequency. And
GTA3 is easily among the best of PS2 games. Sorry .au! At least
they probably won't ban FFX!
Am I to understand that stealing cars is illegal in Australia? How... weird.
-- If no truths are spoken then no lies can hide --
This is what we like to see. .au has seen the draconian legislation that the US and the EU have started trying to bring about and want to join in the party?
:)
Governments protecting us from playing things that are naughty.
Thought police strike again. Anyone think that
Well, as long as you can still buy pr0n, I guess that's ok
I believe that I can clear this up. Any single video game can integrate itself into a countrys culture. Perhaps the Aussie authoritys are worried that this will cause people to drive on the "wrong" side of the road
We should all (I mean, the Western World) boycott Australia for all the censorship and banning.
I mean, how many millions of dollars do we leave there through tourism? If we stopped going, then they would feel a drop in their income.
And of course, we should also stop going to the theatres or renting movies like Cocodrile Dundee.
I give in to sin because I like to practice what I preach.
I remember from the earlier article that Australia was concerned about being able to hire prostitutes. Do your thing and then beat them up for the money.
It's probably a good thing they didn't realise you can wander around, beat someone up for their money, kill the paramedic when he arrives, steal the ambulance and then mow down prostitutes by the dozen. All in the privacy of your own home!
Well, what do you expect. What with the major gun bans down there and all, they want to keep ideas out of the heads of the punks down there that would do this sort of thing, since none of the true law abiding citizens can protect themselves in the first place because their means of protection (guns) have been taken away from them.
Thieves and hooligans don't care about laws when they are stealing your possessions, so why should they care about laws banning guns?
Consider this from the CNN article (And I've seen it before):
The OFLC was firm on the point that the game would not allowed in Australia, saying "if you have already purchased a game you will need to contact your retailer about return procedures."
Are people who purchased the game before the ban now expected to return it? Exactly how many Aussies are going to return what is essentially a collector's item in their country?
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
pronoblem
After having played GTA3 for many hours straight, I'm surprised to hear of this (I missed the original article.) Sure, there's some swearing and violence, but it's not really any worse than a lot of other games that are already readily available. Does Australia have a long list of games that are banned, or is this one being set up to make an example, so to speak?
agreed, what is this masturbataory BS. does he have nothing better to do than waste away his 20's in front of a video game system. christ taco, get a life, i mean that in the realest sense...you might as well tell us what you had for dinner last night while you're at it. "ps2 resurgance", god that's pathetic.
Its a very desensitizing game. I have it, and would actually recommend NOT buying the game unless you are over 25! But that's just my opinion on it. It is a great game, and addicting too, but just too desensitizing for most people to handle.
I mean isn't Australia just a big island full of convicts? Funny how now they seem to be so strict. I wonder if someone gets arrested for having that game, are they going to ship them to the UK?
~ now you know
This is MUCH better than seeing another retarded LINUX IS GOOD. or MICROSOFT IS BAD. article.
If anyone has any friends in Australia, I recommend that you ask them if they want a copy of GTA3. If so, you should offer to buy it and mail it to them. With the surge of Christmas packages, I doubt Customs would search every package, especially if it were sent in an innocent-looking envelope.
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
Ture the gamplay and replay value are pretty damn good, even a descent storyline. But, copkilling games and those with other criminal content will always attract publicity and bans. Remember "Postal". It was the same thing, at the time it had great graphics and a high replay value (especially the marching band level). Anyway, don't think for a second that this will be a negitive for the game publisher, its just an added plus to help sell the game in the US and UK. Hey, I played through GTA, Max Payne, and Spycraft. I can't say that I'm a better person for playing them. I would never want my child to come in contact with that shit just for someone else's entertainment.
"Get them before they get....
Talk about a great game. I still haven't heard all of the talk show segments in the game. It is great to go on a rampage and then part the car overlooking the bay and listen to the Chatterbox FM. All we can hope for is for GTA4 to have broadband multiplay and the game would be perfect.
As for the Aussies, they are down the path of giving up personal liberties for the "greater good". Since they banned guns thei crime rate has steadily risen. Good job!
I'm not on my knees polishing CmdrTacos knob so instantly I lose moderation points... who would have guessed?
~ now you know
of Carmageddon spring to mind...
Why does it seem automobile related destruction of life and limb garners so much censorship?
We kill 50,000+ people a year on the streets as it is!
For those who have seen the classic Sean Connery James Bond film "Goldfinger" there is a quote I always found amusing...
JB: Incidently, Delta-9 nerve gas is fatal- you'll kill 45,000 people.
GF: Ha! American motorists kill that many every 2 years!"
Now we hit that mark in under a year...
...but apparently smoking crack isn't.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
However, I do see where their government is going with this. It has been a disturbing trend for several decades in this country that criminals feed on the public's attention, and when the public gives much attention to criminals, it encourages people with self esteem issues to become criminals.
That, then, is the problem with GTA: it encourages car theft. Not in the sense that a GTA player is likely to go out and steal a car, but rather that it allows a culture to slip steadily closer to a hellish society in which crime is tolerated in order to entertain the public. This is not unlike the Colosseum in ancient Rome, in which murders took place between god-fearing christians for the sake of the public's amusement. Compare this to the instant notoriety of serial killers like John Wayne Gacy, who make a killing selling paintings from prison, and you can see why the government wants to stop glorifying crime now.
Something must be done about this morbid situation. But it doesn't involve banning games. Perhaps it is a media problem; if the government owned a few media outlets, it would be able to put writers and producers with old fashioned values back on the TV, replacing the ratings whores we have today. That is a bit closer to socialism than we should be, but it might be better for society in the long run.
Bill
On a serious note, I lived in Australia (Newtown, NSW) in 1992 for about 7 months. When watching TV, I started to notice you really didn't see violence but man 'o man did you see breasts! While I was there, the movie "Ten" w/ Bo Derek was shown on their equivilent of NBC. In America, they cut out all the nudity scenes. In Australia, they actually had more than the original movie had! Special Director's Cut for Australia. What a great country! Great beer, beautiful women and those cool, lickable toads.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
No, I am not comparing video games to "real" guns. I am stating that the games we play have an effect on what we do in life.
.au, there is a ban on guns, but as I stated in the first place, criminals don't care one iota about what is banned and what is not, because they are criminals and breaking the ban is what they do.
I remember playing games such as Carmageddon and the like for hours on end with friends, then getting into a real car later on with them and jokingly pointing out people on the streets and saying "100 points!"
Yes, I am able to seperate a game from reality, but there are those out there that are not able to, or possibly don't want to.
The game depicts a hooligan running around, carjacking vehicles all over the place, etc. In
So, how does this affect importing the game into the country? Who's for making a few bucks with an eBay auction or fifty? :)
Is Natalie Portman in this game?
Did Microsoft write this game?
Is this game being ported to Linux?
Is this game written in Perl?
Does this game contain any OSDN or VA polls?
Are there any latex clad BSD Grrls in this game?
What the Hell is this story doing on Slashdot?
This
Duke3D was banned in Australia until 3DRealms patched it so the Adult lock couldn't be deactivated; it took a few hours at least before it was cracked, if memory serves.
We'll ban anything you like over here, it seems...
"If you create user accounts, by default, they will have an account type of Administrator with no password." KB Q293834
Alright, seriously, I know that crime probably isn't very high in Australia, but I'm fairly certain that whatever form of legislative body they have 'down under' (sorry, pun necessary) could find things more important to spend working hours dealing with .
Revolution is simply evolution that has been desired enough to be created by dreamers willing to riskit's possibilities.
yeah, I can understand why they banned it.
why, only yesterday, I was out on the main roads, with my PSX pad strapped to my belt, frantically pressing the buttons in the hope that the driver would fall out of the car, and I could make a quick getaway from the cops.
Maybe they should take a step back and realise that its only a game. It doesnt teach people to steal cars and commit crimes, that still happens even if GTA was never created. They are just keeping some people away from a quality title.
I'm anispeptic, frasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused you such pericombobulation.
Ofcause they need to ban a game where you can do the following:
Urinate:
Walk up to a wall and press Up, Down, Up, Down, L2, R1, R2(2), Up, Down, Up, Down, Up.
Your character will urinate on the wall. The cops will chase since it counts as vandalizing.
Funny!
Hmmm.. mine shows australia to be quite a bit farther from Germany than "next door."
I found that GTA and GTA2, while not as graphically pleasing as GTA3 looks to be, were a wonderful addition to my skill set. Not only do I now know how to go on a "Kiiiiillll FRENZY!", but I also know how to hotwire most major makes of car, from the unimposing Ford Fiesta, to the ever-popular Tank!
These sorts of skills are very important to an aspiring criminal mastermind, such as me. And why work so hard for a Cisco or MSCE certification? They cost so much more! For only $49.95 (before tax), you too can learn the same skill sets I now have.
I'm just wondering if GTA3, with all it's new-fangled '3D' graphics is really worth the investment in my future. I mean, I already know how to highjack cars and kill random people. Do I really need to know how to interact with the mob? Please help me decide slashdot!
with a grain of salt - there's a link to another article listed on that page - entitled "Computer games 'cause brain damage'"
sheesh....
Oh you mean like in Europe and practically in every other western democracy?
Besides that's a "Slippery Slope" logical fallacy.
USA and UK ban stuff too, not just australia. Its just that its gov pressure on publishers that does it rather than pre-emptive laws.
The Playstation had an awesome game I played a lot using a MOD chip called Thrill Kill.
Unfortunately for the developers and fans, before that game was released Electronic Arts acquired the rights to the game by purchasing Virgin Interactive's titles, and due to the publisher's "moral obligations," the game never saw the light of day. At least, legitimately. Ebay sales of Illegal CDRs were heavy for a while. and it traded swiftly , especially after EA placed full size ads for it in trade mags, and stickers.
And dont forget that the Movie Clockwork Orange was not played in Britain for almost 20 years in a theater! Kubrick was threatened with jail time if he allowed it by threatening to assosiate teen crime with him as the inciting party.
The USA almost banned "Custers Last Stand" for the Atari 2600, which featured a cowboy raping a Squaw tied to a stake.
Germany successfully banned Castle Wolfenstein 3D by ID when Compuserve tried to have it online. It got deleted off CIS.
Australia is screwed in other ways regarding porn though.
At least in the US I can say "Jesus is a Lie" in a video game, or depict cops having their heads blown off to score extra points.
Hmmm... let's think for a minute:
Perhaps you lost your (precious) moderation points because you POSTED A REPLY TO THIS STORY???
... or maybe, just maybe you lost your moderation points because people don't care to hear your WHINING and your post was COMPLETELY off-topic.
Yeah, and I bet the CIA's plotting against you, too - evidenced by the fact that you got pulled over for doing 70 in a 55, right?
*grumblelosergrumble*
TheNewWazoo
Okay, what you have is a society whose government has decided that it doesn't want video games that make carjacking and other violent mayhem seem like a fun idea.
From a moral standpoint, that's actually kind of healthy.
Where it starts to get iffy is when this sort of ban is actually symptomatic of a bigger problem, in which the government is trying to make their entire population goosestep and a commercial ban on violent games is only one such restriction imposed, in parallel with other restrictions like clampdowns on information or restricted free political speech.
For instance, if the US were to ban counterstrike servers that didn't automatically put bots on the terrorist team, I'd be pretty freaked out. And you can bet this is something that will come further down the line if Ashcroft et al. don't get their powers checked.
But I've never heard of Australia being a society with a reputation of doing this sort of thing to its population. Now, I'm not saying that this isn't happening there per se, I may just be ignorant of it, and an Aussie contribution on this issue would definitely be valuable.
But what I'm thinking is that we shouldn't necessarily be taking this in the same vein as if a North American government were imposing such a restriction. You might disagree, but I think that the censorship is only a problem when it comes close to stifling dissent against the powers that be, as opposed to just trying to promote a little bit of morality and decency. Yes, I know that the line is easily blurred, but is it blurred here?
Just my two cents.
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
What about WWII movies like Saving Private Ryan? Since they are killing surely everyone else will. If people cannot draw the distinction between reality and entertainment there is no video game, movie or anything else that will change that. The word sociopath came from those type of people. So banning something because a few (who argueably will do something wrong anyway) may take it seriously is not only stupid but a complete waste of time. By the Au's contention banning ALL violence should remove it completely from society. Didnt that work for the Taliban?
Just split it into two parts, 1/(2^n+3^n) + (2^n)/(2^n+3^n) Both parts converge, so their sum converges too.
Now where the fuck did get the idea that "Grand Theft Auto Still Banned Down Under" is "Ask Slashdot for homework help"?
I actually got bored after the first 8 or so missions then just started trashing cars. After two evenings seeing how high I could get a fire engine to jump I put it in the "finished" stack.
Perhaps it gets more exciting later on? I retired it seeing it as a spruced up Crazy Taxi with free-form action. Anyone else feel the same way?
why ban guns if the nuts and criminals will still have them anyway. The same applies to games, this won't stop your average wAr3z d00d from getting ahold of a copy anyways.
I think you're right.
I can see my hand flying over my head at high speed making that "plane" sound...
Lt. Taco unless there actually IS a PS2 game called FFX... then I'd be a 5 * General Bean Buritto!
The usa quasi-gov departments such as USPS department uses lawsuits to stop games it deems too violent.
Postal, as in "go Postal" was banned after 3 weeks in USA.
"go postal" means "To become very angry or lose control; torage." This was certainly the case when officials got word of the PC clone title Postal, in which you must uncover a conspiracy byshooting anything that moves.
Postal was banned in Austrailia, Brazil, Germany, Korea, The U.K., Singapore, and more.
In the US, it went on the shelves in the in November of 1997, but was removed after only 3 weeks
(Major retailers pulled itafter heavy pressure from the US Congress, specifically Sen. Lieberman of Connecticut).
The company that produced the game is still being sued by the US Postal Service.
And Thrill Kill by Electronic Arts was never distributed in USA, except illegal copies of CDRs on EBAY. Its the most violent playstation game ewver made.
What they need is a video game where you drive around and actually help people.
Whoa! This lady has three bags of groceries, let me give her a lift. *bllling* - 100 points.
Hey! This poor man is walking in the rain, have him jump in.
Yeah, that's exactly what they need. I can just see the kids storming the stores to get them.
+++ http://www.cowdance.com/bovine/
New York-based Take-Two Interactive Software Inc. said on Wednesday it plans to modify the hit criminal adventure game so that it could be sold in Australia by January.
This will be great! I bet GTA3 will be even better when they cut out the parts that involve stealing cars and killing people!
The article says that the maker of the game is trying to make a new version of the game for distribution in Australia in Jan 2002.
How are they gonna pull that off??? Remove the guns, prostituts, organized crime, etc.... what are you left with??? Crazy Taxi????
Glad to see you're doing your part to revitalize the economy, lardass.
PS2 proficiency isn't going to help on your resume when you finally have to go out into the real world and get a job.
BTW: I heard your interview on NPR. You sound just as much like a total idiot as I thought you would.
This is a common misconception, but as with most misconceptions, it's *not* true. The Coriolis effect is not powerful enough to overcome the effect of minuscule imperfections in the structure of the sink/bathtub/toilet/whatever. Not by a long stretch.
:) )
(If you think this is off topic, read the dept. line. If you still want to mod this down; go ahead, I can afford it.
-- If no truths are spoken then no lies can hide --
If the aussies can't play violent games, then the terrorists have already won.
Hammer of Truth
In late breaking news, it was determined that the earth still revolves around the sun. While we have no new developments to report on this subject, we'd just like to remind you that it's still true, just like Copernicus said in 1530.
What's this?? Someone who returned to the scene of the posting?? I didnt think slasdotters ever read what they wrote. Just be Anonymous, dude! read all the postings, and occasionally take your own pee on the community fire hydrant. Why should anyone need to know who I am?
I think that the people who don't seperate the game from reality are already screwed up. Think of what the world would be like otherwise:
As it is, we just have a few lunatics like this.
Kubrick was threatened with jail time
Please get your facts straight. Clockwork Orange was never banned in UK, Kubrick pulled it himself after he received death threats. It was released last year 'caus he'd like ya'know - died
Do you have a source for this? I'd heard that Kubrick wanted the film to be withdrawn because of press campaigns trying to associate the film, and thereby him, with various violent crimes. But I don't think I've ever heard of any official pressure being put on him.
This certainly won't get a "Score:5, Insightfull", but I was talking to some good 'ol boys at the local video game store and they said that GTA3 was going to be edited in the US. Apparently a cab drivers union objected to the middle eastern steriotype cab driver in the game. Also supposedly being edited: prostitutes and curisng. Any word on this?
If these walls could talk they'd probly still ignore me. --MF DOOM
The US "almost" bans something? The US doesn't ban ANYTHING unless it has child porn in it. And that's the way it should be. I hope you dumb a$$ aussies like having the government be your daddy. Wah, wah...... This is why you need a 2nd amendment. If you had one, the bastards in your government would be less likely to sell you out. Not that it helps the US mind you....
The US actually cared about an ATARI 2600 game?! How can you successfully depict "a cowboy raping a squaw" without out it looking like a ASCII drawing? (Quick answer: you can't.) How can you tell it's a Squaw indian, instead of another breed? How could you tell it's even a rape scene?
That couldn't be held up in court:
Lawyer: "So...did you willingly draw a rape scene between a cowboy and this Squaw indian?"
Artist: "Rape scene? What rape scene?"
Lawyer: "This one..."
[plays game scene]
Artist: "That's not a rape scene. That's...uhhh...a pigeon carrying a message to Custard. Any fool could see that!"
Lawyer: "Uhhh...well, I guess it does sorta look like that from this angle. No further questions."
Zodiac Survey
Thats it, America must launch an all-out attack. What right to those bloody Australians think they have to run their own country with their own laws?!?! i mean the cheek!!! they should have the same laws as America. Its time for the US government to bomb COUGH i mean 'liberate' the Austrailian people from this oppressive (sic) regieme. America, together will stand for freedom - weather you like it or not :)
No but seriously you guys, Australia has a right to rule what ever way they want, and as fun as it is to beat pigs to the ground, hit and hit them with a baseball bat, watching their limp bodies twitch in pain and then fill them with lead with bin ladens fav. weapon.. oops, i digress, its a very violent game.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Arg why I oughta haul them out of their cars then back over them and leave the car there- then nuke the ambulance when it comes creating a chain reaction of exploding cars and flaming people running around and...OH you're talking about the game!
Bah games are just well games...I mean does any normal person not know the difference? I wouldn't ever think of doing stuff like that in real life, same for every game, movie etc I've ever seen. Now maybe six year olds shouldn't be playing these games but will...DUH maybe their parents should be keeping an eye on what their kids are up to? And as for the people who are unbalanced and apparently 'get ideas' from watching these games there's no shortage of places for them to 'get ideas' from- how about the evening news?
That's true, but consider this, people generally look to games and movies as an expression of fantasy or an outlet. Most humans have core interests to do illegal things. I'd prefer that people vent these interests into video games then letting them bottle up until they "snap". I've played many violent and gruesome video games and I thoroughly enjoyed the Die Hard movies, and things of the like. But I'm just a normal working guy, I don't blow things up, don't steal cars, and I pay my taxes. So I think the problem is that the people that go out of line either have chemical imbalances (natural or recreationally induced) or are in need of support from responsible people at stages in their development. Your thoughts?
Final Fantasy X
USA uses civil courts to ban, rather than Penal courts.
"Postal" was banned in Austrailia, Brazil, Germany, Korea, The U.K., Singapore, and more. In the US, it went on the shelves in the in November of 1997, but was removed after only 3 weeks
(Major retailers pulled itafter heavy pressure from the US Congress, specifically Sen. Lieberman of Connecticut). The company that produced the game is still being sued by the US Postal Service.
Riggghhhhhtttt.... sure it was "death threats"
Ha! Think!... why would a strong vocal supporter of non-violence threaten Kubrick with violence such as Murder!?!?!
Think!
Kubrick was pressured by legal threats of persecution by his gov not by a lone caller... despite what the rumor mills say or claim he said.
Remeber the many US Heavy Metal lawsuits over suicide and suggetive lyrics? Same thing goes on in UK.
If the ban is justified, then an abnormally high percentage of people who bought the game and don't return it will steal real cars, right?
--------
It's OK to be social, just don't tell anyone about it.
Abandons DC for PS2....
First, I must confess to playing, as well as enjoying, such violent games as GTA3.
But, I must commend, yes commend, the Australian government for this latest action. I can definitely see their point in not wanting to promote such violence or desensitize anyone of the horific nature of such violence. The government will take a lot of heat for this and I admire their strength to face this heat.
Let's face it. Society and certainly the entertainment industry has increasingly glorified this type of violence. I don't believe that people, except for a very sick few, commit such violence because of movies of video games but, I do think that they are desensitized by the constant onslaught of such violent entertainment.
The Australian government is, contrary to the usual posts here, not significantly restricting freedom of speech or movement. They are simply restricting a single excessively violent video game that portrays socially abhorent behavior.
The social and moral values of the free world have degraded dramatically over the years and I don't think that it is a good thing. Would your parents or grandparents have discuused killing someone as we freely and easily do on a daily basis? When last did you say, "I'm gonna kill you!"? Think about what that statement means and then tell me that you have not been desensitized? So, why then do we take amusement from beating up or killing old people?
The people of Australia and the freeworld, for that matter, can definitely make and play higly enjoyable video games without such antisocial violence.
Your Grandmother just got killed in a car jacking. How funny and entertaining is that?
501 Not Implemented
The only thing CT has beat is his meat.
A couple of years ago the government took their guns away too so there is no way they can revolt. Everyone knows that if you took the Americans rights to play GTA3 away you would have another civil war on your hands.
Custer's Revenge was for the Ataris 2600,and made by a company called Mystique, it featured pornography and had a sub-goal of indian rape. I do not know if it was the original "Custers Last Stand" or not. It may have been a copycat title living off the infamy of the original.
if you outlaw gta3, only outlaws will have them!
Got Freedom?
Thinking?
Offer to buy the UK version for them and mail that. The game has not been banned in the UK, the UK version is PAL and thus compatable with most Aussie TVs and the regional encoding system (for PS2 games) is set so that the UK and Australia are the same region, so people in Australia can play the UK version without problem.
Of course, if you live in the UK then its less hassle. Or New Zealand -- I understand that many Aussies are importing from NZ.
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
Holy fuck. That's a lovely precedent.
And hey, we were watching that Australian cut of "Last Tango in Paris", and actually, we not think that we didn't cut enough depravity. Hand it over, you sickos.
And that "Clockwork Orange" book, holy shit, have you seen it? I can't believe we let that through. Burn it, burn it now.
Anyone got the National Geographic that shows the Yanomamo using drugs in a religious ceremony? Turn them in. We're thinking of the children.
Anyone got more details on this retroactive censorship crap?
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Sometimes it seems like the Government down there is communist. They tell you what you can and can't watch, play and do.
Whats next?
Snoozer.
If you want to commit vehicular mayhem Down Unda, you'll just 'ave to wait until after the Pocksaclypse.
~Philly
Carmageddon II & Unreal Tournament are the only reasons quite a few people I know are still alive.....
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
This only ban's retailers in the country, right? Can aussies buy it online from like amazon.com or someplace? Would it need to be shipped in plain wrapping like a porno? Would it have to be smuggled into the country?
---
There is no ass.
No ass? Well shove this up the top of your legs then!
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Since they banned guns thei crime rate has steadily risen. Good job!
... I'm sure crimes related to guns have dropped dramatically. And eventhough there are less murders/deaths in a crime, the crime rate can still go up due to increases in theft, fraud, and smaller forms of crime. It all depends on how you measure crime.
Sorry, I can't help but laugh at that statement.
I'm also VERY interested in seeing those statistics
But to me that comment screams of a bullshit stat., at least you did not write a number as well...
Actually, Kubrick himself withdrew 'A Clockwork Orange', reputedly due to copycat attacks. They did ban 'The Exorcist', another recently released but I can't imagine copycat demonic possessions. The point is that 'A Clock Orange' does not seek to glorify violence, whereas games like GTA3 make it fun. I like stealing cars and killing the pigs, its not going to make me do it, but I do get desensitised. Lets not forget that video and cinema censorship are many times more effective than games censorship (which is a joke) so maybe they feel that an outright ban is the only practical solution.
So have the Aussies banned the Thief games too? Or is it the mindless violence that they object to? (and mindless violence has been around since the days of 'Hunt the Wumpus' et al.) And what about the 'Cannon Fodder' theme (and game)?
(War) Never been so much fun
(War) Never been so much fun
Go to your brother, kill him with you gun
Leave him lying in his uniform, dying in the sun
(War)
Why is Australia always referred to as "Down Under?" Are Australians somehow inferior to Americans and Yookers?
I mean, having the north pole at the top of the globe is only arbitrary. Who is to say the earth spins counterclockwise? Only those who never look at the globe with the south pole at top. Which is most of the northern hemisphere.
Then again, I guess those who conquer the world get to make the roolz.
All that yummy goodness of the middle eastern cab driver and the cursing is in the game. Personally It's not a stereotype. I live in New York. Try to find a WASP taxi driver here.
My only beef is they took out the motorcycle from the game because the physics were too hard to render. Blah.
Me in a Cheetah + Uzi + Game Radio > *
>As for the Aussies, they are down the path of
>giving up personal liberties for the "greater
>good". Since they banned guns theircrime rate
>has steadily risen. Good job!
I understand that censorship is bad and that deciding what constitutes reasonable entertainment is not the governments job. But i entirely disagree with your use of term "personal liberties" especially when referring to guns and when putting down Australia.
The idea of civil liberties is basically that all those actions which do not cause direct harm to others should be permitted and the government does not have the right to intrude into the personal life of it's citizens. In this field the U.S. is perhaps the worse offender among democratic nations. I would draw your attention particularily to the Anti-Terrorist Bill which has been pushed through in the past few months which basically signs away the rights and liberties of every American in the name of national security.
The right to own a video game is an issue of civil liberties. It involves deciding what you want to do in the privacy of your own home to entertain yourself.
The right to own a handgun is not an issue of civil liberties. A handgun, unlike a videogame, is a machine made to kill human beings, it serves no other purpose. This is not a machine that anyone should be permitted to carry around with them, and you can shout about personal freedom all you want. The "right to bear arms" is a freak of American Legislation born from the fact that America is a nation founded upon a violent revolution. It is NOT a basic human right.
And as for your figures about Australia's crime rate: The crime rate has only increased because of the number of people who have been arrested for illegally owning handguns. The number of handgun related murders has steadily decreased since the ban was instated.
lysergically yours
The reason why scatology videos are legal in Australia is they didn't want to upset alot of jews.
I wonder if there's a way to test if a kid is able to distriguish between the game and reality? Slapping an age limit on it just seems unfair to me. I know some very intelligent 8 year olds, and I know some quite stupid 16 year olds.
"Shared pain is lessened; shared joy is increased. Thus we refute entropy" - Spider Robinson
Exactly. The only person to ban Clockwork Orange was Stanley Kubrick himself. This is why it only got an official release here after his death.
Kubrick had taken cinemas to court for showing it, and was instrumental in closing down the Scala in London.
The film was NEVER banned by HM Government, and anyone who says that it was is a know-nothing bozo.
"Information wants to be paid"
"This game has been modified from its original version. It has been edited for content and formatted to fit your legal system."
Cheers, Toliaro
Seeing as half of the story revolved around what games Taco has played recently, I think my post was exactly on topic.
~ now you know
We keep our best beer for ourselves.
I get my Coopers in the UK from Oddbins, and it's sometimes cheaper than the stubby price I used to pay in Australia !!
Oh, and you can get VB too (if you're desperate) but the cans are re-printed "Victoria Beer" as they can't call it "Bitter" in the UK (it's a lager). Fosters in the UK is nothing like Aussie Fosters (well, almost nothing like - it's still piss, but different piss), but is brewed in London by Courage.
I'm off for a hoegaarden which I can get on tap and tastes surprisingly like Coopers - now if only it was 35 degrees outside rather than 3 degrees...
T
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. - George Best
and we are a bunch of convicts. I love it. It's fun. That's why I'm sad to see Australia take this stance.
~ now you know
I don't think you can kill the paramedics, you can knock them down but not out. I've run over them 5 times and they just keep getting up after a few seconds. I guess I need to try shooting them. You can get health back by stealing the ambulence too, if you're not at full from the prostitutes, who can raise you up to 125% (pun intended).
My friend visited a few weeks ago from another state, bringing his PS2 and GTA3 with him. After we spent a good 8 hours playing it and laughing hysterically, we thought the game was the greatest thing ever.
When my friend returned, and e-mailed us the next week saying that he had won an XBox, I decided that I was going to hijack a car, GTA3 style, and come visit him. So I walked out to one of the campus parking lots with a PS2 controller, hit the "jack car" button, and waited to see myself open the door and jump in. It didn't work.
This game crushes the hopes of college students everywhere. This is precisely why it should be banned from Australia, and the US, too.
Gawyn
Freedom of Speech?
He told us that water spins the other way in sinks of the southern hemisphere. I've always been skeptical that the coriolis effect could be that important on such a small scall and I've learned since then that it's just an urban legend. Funny that a physics teacher in an engineering school didn't know better.
True warriors use the Klingon Google
That's Funny, my friends GF who works @ BlockBuster Video hired this GTA3 game 4 weeks ago.
It didn't seem hard 2 get a hold.
LoLz , just make the game even more popular.
GG AUSSIE
I think a good idea for game makers right now is to make one where you play a terrorist. There can be special levels where you commandier aircraft and crash them into buildings.
Now that would be cool!
Immoral or not, I laughed my ass off when I first beat an innocent pedistrian to death with a club. It's almost so ridculous, that it's like cartoon violence. You'd have to be a freak to get off on that in real life.
InstantCool
The British gov police hassled kubrick after several "copycat" crimes; in one instance a 17-year-old Dutch girl was raped in Lancashire by a gang chanting Singin' in the Rain, and in another a child was beaten by a 16-year-old boy wearing Alex's uniform of white overalls, black bowler hat and combat boots. The British gov made quite clear to Kubrick that his movie might be found to incite violence especially if the suspects claim it did under oathe. With such heavy handed tactics Kubrick aturally had to self censor... the cops did not like the movie... remember the ending?
Britain bans all sorts of movies using one tactic or another such as Marlon Brandos teen violence movie "The Wild One" which was banned until 1968.
Geez... glad to be in america
The poster claimed Kubrick did not release it . (British gov hassled him with lawsuit implied threats). You should read the post again. He did not use the word ban without putting theword in double quotes. Basically it was "banned" but in a 'de-facto' sense.
you are the bozo. The movie was being blamed for lots of rapes.
On yet another level we could have it take place in a nursing home or baby delivery ward in a hospital and you get to take a lead pipe and beat the crap out of old people, mentally handicapped and babies. Wheeeee, fun!
I disagree completely that playing violent video games does in any way desentisize the player to anything other than the video game violence. As someone who loves to blast foes to chopped liver in UT, HL, MP, etc. AND as a frequent viewer of explosion movies, I was still moved to tears by the 9.11 attrocities, as apparently was everyone else. When its real, its real.
Having said that, I'm sure the developers of GTA3 could have found more politically correct targets to destroy than old women. Killing virtual soldiers is one thing, but there is something sick about killing virtual innocents...
"Stop whining!" - Arnold, as Mr. Kimble
and your post is a fine example of that fact...
Yes, it's fixed, and yes, I am now reading your funny -1 Offtopic comment right now at -1 (obviously).
GTA3. Australian for censorship.
--
http://www.club977.com/ - The 80's Channel!
Your source for commercial free 80's music!
On a related note, GTA3 was finally released in Afghanistan, after Rockstar Games agreed to make a few minor modifications. The only vehicle you can choose is a beat up Toyota pickup truck with fourteen armed men in the back...
I actually started laughing so hard people came to my cube to ask what was so funny. You deserve most of the funny mod points given to responses in this article.
(+10, Callbacks are the best humor)
Virg
You would have known what the Fuzz Ball was.
Oh well, lost humor is still funny.
"If you outlaw gta3, only outlaws will have them!"
... (USA)
... suddenly they seem less lame.
/.
Wait a minute... I thought AU was where we sent our criminals
Now the pOrn sites will have GTA3 ads instead
--
Commit random acts of thought. Post to
make Linux, not Microsoft. sin(beast) = -0.809016994374947424102293417182819
...Budwiser...
And this from the country that brought us Mad Max!! Tisk. Tisk!
You could say that the directors cut of "Eyes Wide Shut" was censored in the US, but it wasn't by the government, it was edited because there is a conspiracty among newspapers and theatre chains to keep nc-17 films out of theatres. Public outcry was near zero over this in the US. Same thing happened to the film "American Psycho".
I find myself driving along and when i see a pedestrian, i want to jerk the wheel to the right just to hear the squish of killing them. I also meander through parking lots looking for the best car to steal. It's pretty weird.
El Karma: excelente(principalmente la suma de moderación hecha a los comentarios de los usuarios)
Uhhh, hate to spoil your rant, but guns haven't been banned in Australia. Just certain semiautomatic types. Please explain ([1]) to me how being able to have a semiautomatic weapon as opposed to a regular gun is going to make any difference in the crime rate?
[1] A little private joke that only Australians are going to get
Here's an article on IGN from last night.
http://ps2.ign.com/news/40454.html
Also, I had brought up this issue on a previous post, but I'd like to see it talked about here.
As videogame technology grows and we see more freedom given to the player to interact with the environment in realistic ways, how will the rating systems be used?
Take a ficticious game, for instance, where you're a boyscout helping old women across the street. Due to it's realistic physics, environments, and interactions, the player could be capable of shoving them in front of a large truck. How should this game be rated? The intention is to help the old lady, not kill her. But the player would still be capable of commiting a horrible act. Should the old lady jump over the truck to avoid a disturbing event and end up destroying the realism in the process?
As the environments in games become more realistic, these are going to be issues we'll have to deal with.
Why isn't this in Your Rights Online then?!
sulli
RTFJ.
... where your character is an Islamic fundamentalist and your goal is to hijack 747's and blow up buildings. The game would be very realistic: you have to break through the cockpit door and slit the throats of the pilots with lightning fast game controller speed, shoot down opposing F18's while you fly the airplane into your choice of skyscrapers, and trigger well placed bombs to kill as many innocent people as possible.
I'm sure GTA3 is fun (GTA1 certainly was). And an airplane hijacking game might have sounded like a lot fun game before September 11th as well.
I agree that banning a game is not a correct solution - even if such a game as this existed. I believe video games should be classified as any other form of art (film, paintings, photography), and laws should be made to ensure that any video game cannot be declared illegal no matter it's content. I have no problems with certain games being only sold to those over 21, but prohibition on video games in the name of "saving the children" is a weak argument.
will a post containing the phrase "Jesus is a lie" get modded up to +5.
I've had it. Any places on the Web where the moral community can have tech discussions?
/. is too far gone to be saved. Adios.
Just to show how wild we can go with this thread, just this year somebody started trying to make Death Race for the 2600. No kidding.
0 10 8/msg00510.html
/ sc reen1_color2.gif
/ DE ATHRACESCREEN.GIF
Post to Stellalist:
http://www.biglist.com/lists/stella/archives/20
From that post...
Screengrab of 2600 mock-up:
http://www.gamedevelopers.net/deathderby/images
Screenshot of original (again, from above post):
http://www.gamedevelopers.net/deathderby/images
Ah, the boons of the internet.
It's all 0s and 1s. Or it's not.
Just look what the Australian company Torus did to the great Carmageddon series.
Carmageddon I and II, were great games, and had wonderful replay value, even though a major part of the game involved running over pedestrians(and dogs).
Because of pressure, Torus removed pedestrians from Carmageddon 3 and replaced them with zombies. Plus the gameplay and physics sucked.
Way to ruin a franchise!
Where the Austrailian Government are coming from in wanting banned. Its favourable with the vast majority of the electorate that (what they view as..) "violent crime-encouraging games" be put in their place. If I hadnt played any games, hell i'd probably agree with their decision. Its sensible in theory and for their next ballot box crusade.
Custer's Last Stand deserves to be banned. That game was AWFUL. I mean, I know atari games were all pretty repetitive with silly graphics and even sillier plotlines, but this thing made no sense.
You played a naked Custer, and there was a naked woman on the other side of the screen. Also, there were things which I can only assume were arrows falling diagonally towards you. If they hit you, you had to go back to your side of the screen.
Eventually you would dance your way across to the lady, and have sex with her (it wasn't clear to me that it was rape, I always thought she approving the whole transaction... I mean seriously, why was she naked to begin with?).
Anyway, that was it. The longer you could have sex with the woman before getting show with the arrow, the higher your score.
As I recall.
Man, that was a stupid game. I hope nobody actually paid for that.
--
RumorsDaily
In France, you can't buy nazy items, cannot say things pro-racism..
I'm french so I'm problably LESS aware of the things forbidden in France which are legal elsewhere..
Is oral and anal sex still "banned" in some states of the USA?
I've always found funny than the "land of freedom" would ban those things..
Australia is banning a videogame ??
What is "big news" here??
This si badd!!1! We hd bettre ban thsi violent game or eles the kids wll thnk that they cna steal cars and kill peopel!11!!! We don't watn any kiling!11!!
Well, needless to say, those nasty orcs were done for...and I did not have to line up once to pay for my purchases. Of course, it was rather unpleasant having to slip and slide through what was left of those nasty orcs (and the remains of the rest of the shoppersand shopkeepers), but I did manage to get some nice loot from the corpses.
Oddly enough, though I killed hundreds if not thousands, I did not get to the next level. Hmmmmm, maybe there was some negative xp gain for killing all those innocents? Damn.
Going on means going far
Going far means returning
You're right. I made a joke about it too. The moderater was wrong.
On the other hand, I was just making a joke lightheartedly, your post seemed sort of millitant...
~ now you know
I think they should make all the inhabitants of the GTA III world into grizzly bears. That would solve the problem...
I don't agree with censorship, or banning of games, books or anything else in this fashion. I believe its every person's right to play whatever the hell game they want, own what they want, read what they want, etc. without the government interfering. But... If there was one game that I would say deserved it, it would be this one. Good game-yes, fun-yeah, but it could have been just as good without a few of the overly raunchy features such as the hookers. I wish more people hated these nasty features of the game and something would be done about it naturally through the free market system. But that's not the case. Unfortunately too many of the people buying it seem really to enjoy killing old ladies and the like. Banning the game is not going to help. I hope the AU government figures out it's not their place to impose morality.
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do.
How can a country that produced a movie like "The Road Warrior" ban GTA? tRW had rape and violence to spare and served no purpose other than to entertain. And look, noone went out and started wearing leather and cussing in the early 80's.
GTA is worse because the media is more interactive now? Puleeeze.
What about social censorship? In America since the 9/11 you have all these movie makers refilming scenes that had the Twin Towers in them, eg the Spiderman trailer and Vanilla Sky. Why? Because of painful memories caused by violence. What happened to that new Arnie flick where he is a firefighter who loses his family in a building blown up by terrorists? All the posters for that have been pulled from every cinema in the US. Will it ever be released? This is censorship too in the US.
"The OFLC was firm on the point that the game would not allowed in Australia, saying "if you have already purchased a game you will need to contact your retailer about return procedures"
Yeah, like that's gonna happen.
Those games should never have existed. Talk about encouraging violent behavior! They were hypnotic. Anyway, my advice is to steal or crack a copy of the game instead of buying it if you are going to play it. The people who wrote it and produced it have no reguard for their customers whatsoever. Case in point: network gaming in GTA that never worked and never was patched.
My $0.02
I live in Australia. My friend bought GTA3 a week ago for his PS2, and he loves it. He did not buy a pirated copy, or import it from America, he just went down to the local computer store and bought it from a large display.
The 'ban' on GTA3 is obviously nonexistant, probably a troll.
...breathe the chaos in the midst of order...
Australia has the outback, a vast expanse of nothingness; it has beaches and rainforest too, but New Zealand has middle earth.... and a few sheep too.
..is when government bodies try to take away my right to play the games I want to. The reason that the game has not been refused classification though, is that under the OFLC's classification, no equivalent of the R rating exists for computer games in Australia. The game probably shouldn't recieve an M15+ rating cos of all that violence (I guess??). The OFLC are looking to change the laws, but what worries me is there are a lot of people lobbying to prevent an R classification for games to prevent violent games from falling in childrens hands. To be honest, I have been playing this game since it's release in Australia, and this is the first time I have thought about running down pedestrians in my car.. now where is that address of the OFLC?? BTW there where at least 10 games that were banned here, most of them were released again under appeal from the publishers - but until we get an R rating it looks likely that GTA3 will not be released again. It is also interesting to note that GTA3 was banned before it's release, but Take2 entertainment claimed that there was a breakdown in communication and thought they COULD release it..
I seem to be the only Aussie reading /. today, but I can tell you that if it is banned, it's not well enforced. I bought GTA3 at my local shop in Penrith, NSW, Australia about 4 weeks ago and AFAIK it's still on sale.
Hmmm.. I live in New South Wales.. Australia.. If this game is banned how come I can pop into my local Blockbuster and hire a copy? I think someone got something a little wrong here with this posting.....
err hello guys... u may wanna get your facts right, im in Australia and you can buy GTA3 here, great game too
..references. Australia has NOT got an R18+-rating for computer games (18+ only) policy, only an MA15+ policy. This means that games with strong sexual references will not be purchasable in Australia.
A little off topic, but on the lines of Australian Censorship
I live in Australia, and recently visited a newsagent in Melbourne. In the computer section was the official shrink-wrapped Red Hat Linux 7.1 or 7.2 CD with a book, published by Red Hat.
What disturbed me most was a sticker on the front with the Office of Film and Literature Classification logo, with the statement "This product is classified 'G' - it is suitable for all ages"
The real reason that Australia is having the version edited, is because there are no Holden commodores or Ford Falcons to steal.
By definition, the game is useless to any australian as it stands....
Has anyone told the storeds that GTA3 is banned, has the signal traveled from the head to the feet?
its on sale everywhere...
AHahahahah
In australia:
... aren't enforced unless you wave the evidence in a cops face.
- It's illegal to drive over 50km/h in suburben streets ($125 fine for exceeding the limit by 15km/h or less.)
- It's illegal to smoke pot
- It's illegal to host anything on the internet which is offensive to the <18 viewers, without *proof* your viewers are over 18 (password protection is not enough)
- ISPs must provide 'netnanny' or some other filtering software to users apon signup, and is 'recommended' to run a ISP based filter for inapropriate debts.
- Australian citizens, using australian credit cards on offshore online casino's are *NOT REQUIRED* to honor any debts they rack up.
- Carmaggeddon was banned for a number of months due to the hope^H^H^H^H fear that it will cause australians will be inspired to drive that way.
- GTA3 is still banned due to the fear that people will learn to drive using it.
- Our biggest telecommunications provider (Telstra) has always charged ISPs by the meg (about 13c per meg) for upstream content. Now they have introduced a 3gb cap on all broardband access in Australia.
Fortunatly, with all these f*cked up laws, we've got a law enforcement agency who couldn't catch a cold; so any of the above laws that can't be enforced by machines (speed cameras and bandwidth calculators)
Great quote from a mate:
Porn broker worker (in regard to a 400W HPS growlight): "Do you keep an eye on who we sell these to?"
Head of police of [anonymous country town]: "Nah, it's about tomato season anyway isn't it?"
You use a bunch of big words and a tone that conveys absolute knowledge, but you're completely wrong. Amazing.
I'm not absolutely sure of which war you speak, but I'm assuming you're referring to the war for Southern Independance (commonly referred to, and incorrectly so, as the "Civil War".) In that case, you are all wrong. As you may or may not know, owning a slave back in the 17 and 18 hundreds was the equivalent to owning a mansion or a luxury boat today. Therefore, and this is an educated estimation, about 1 to 3 percent of Southerners actually owned slaves. The war was fought by poor tenant farmers for their freedom from economic oppresion of the Union. Additionally, given the plain numbers of soldiers in each army, it was the Union who's asses were kicked, as the only way they won the war was by presenting the confederate army with more bodies than they had ammunition (which interestingly was caused by lack of support from an ungrateful nation of France in penetrating the Union's blockade.)
As a final thought, I take back what I said about the Union not kicking the CSA's ass because in reality they did, only it wasn't on the battlfield. See, in the "war to free the slaves" the Union army burnt the major Southern cities to the ground in a terrorist act that rivals anything we've ever seen out of the Middle East, more commonly referred to as "Sherman's March." The Confederate army was very civilized and proper in thier way of waging war, in fact they neglected to use their secret submarine weapon until the war was almost over because they thought it was an unfair instrument. Therefore, I recant, the Union did kick the CSA's ass, only rather than soldier deaths, these were the deaths of hundreds of thousands of completely innocent women, children, slaves, men... normal civilians. United we stand, divided we fall... the "we" referred only to the North. My great grandparents used to tell me the story of how their parents were killed in Atlanta by the fires. Call me ignorant, call me a redneck, call me close-minded, but I think I'll stay right here South of that line, thank you very much.
~ now you know
Mmmmm! Well... seeing how the US is just a country
:)
of Pilgrims!??
I guess the game wouldn't go down well there either!
From what I read; it was the Rape-Murder bit in
GTA3 that didn't click with the powers-that-be!
I seem to remember a game in the 8bit era called
Custer's Revenge that caused a lot of upset in the
US because of IT'S Rape content, as well!
Well, maybe Rape is to be encourged in the US now-a-days??
(David Bowman, EVA near HUGE Monolithic Win-PC in orbit around Jupiter) "My God - its full of Malware!"
Something small but nice...maybe something artificial right near the equator in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. A place where geeks roam and there is no censoring of anything. Fiberoptic high-speed internet straight from everyone's house to the internet (server not included). No, even better, from everyone's house to a gigantic island-wide LAN! Of course, you'd get your choice of satellite or digital cable, and your operating system would only be limited to *nix, BSD, Lindows, OS/2, and pre-WindowsXP! Rather than partake in wars, we'd just have Q3A tournaments online. No taxes. Time-shared fabrication facilities and class-100 cleanrooms for citizens. Of course, everyone would have to pass a standard entry test or be exported. Immigrants? No problem! We'll just invent a REAL firewall and put it around the island! Y'know, like the Ring of Fire! Of course, you'd be allowed to bring non-technophile family members -- but only immediate family! Cloning would be legal -- we'd make a mint cloning and exporting body parts!
Then, of course, there are lots of institutions that would want to be established there...especially some really good Chinese delivery places.
Yep, sounds like the perfect place for me. Now all that needs to be figured is out how we're gonna get any women.
[insert witty comment here]
Sorry to disillusion you but we voted BACK-IN the
former Prime Minister (+ party) largely on the
policy he was pushing to keep us from being over-run
by Civil Invaders!!
(David Bowman, EVA near HUGE Monolithic Win-PC in orbit around Jupiter) "My God - its full of Malware!"
Actually, if one goes driving in country Australia',
:)
:)
you often can't miss seeing the wildlife!!
It tends to pile-up on the front of your car!
'I well remember having a bunny zip over the road
btwn the front and back wheel of my R75/6 some 18
years ago near Coonabarraban!
Many country drivers have what are called- "Bull Bars";
in realality- Anti-Bull-Bars!
(David Bowman, EVA near HUGE Monolithic Win-PC in orbit around Jupiter) "My God - its full of Malware!"
My sympathies ... to see a Polar Bear (well 4, really)
... similar to
:)
.... they're like Americans, only
I'd only have to drive 70km to Sea World On The Gold Coast
where they are a theme park attraction!
Maybe, you should fit Moose-Bars
Australian motor vehicle Bull-Bars
(I like Canadians
more polite)
.
(David Bowman, EVA near HUGE Monolithic Win-PC in orbit around Jupiter) "My God - its full of Malware!"
You should have told them about the Box Jelly-Fish, :)
while you were at it!
I remember an American tourist at a Fauna Reserve,
saying how cute the Kangaroos were, bemoning that
they were being hunted and culled - NOT knowing that
they have strong legs and sharp claws that can easilly
disenbowel a tall man while they clutch with the
forepaws!
Numbers of Americans have seen an old newsreel that
shows a Boxing Kangaroo!- THAT pose IS the one used
in the disenboweling attack!!
.
(David Bowman, EVA near HUGE Monolithic Win-PC in orbit around Jupiter) "My God - its full of Malware!"
I wasn't counting theme parks :) If that were the case, I'd only have to drive to the Calgary Zoo :) Kangaroos won't be too far away from them, methinks.
:) Being a proud member of a very agricultural family here in Canada, I've seen my share of bulls. Bulls can't jump over the fences meant to keep them where they are. Moose can, but you're not a citizen of the Great White North, so you wouldn't have known that.
:)
If you think bars on my truck could defend me against a moose, you've never seen one.
Oh, the differences between Canadians are Ameriicans go a little deeper than mannerisms. Most Canadians can tell the difference between us by our accents, word choice, canadianisms ("skronk", "chesterfield"), and various other things. To me, it's slightly more difficult than figureing ot who's the Aussi, and who's the Kiwi
God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
I would prefer to live in a country where we had someting like 300 deaths due to guns last year in the US the average is about 30000 gun death a year. Now the US has 10 times as many people as Australia so if the US banned guns you would save 27000 lives. Call me wierd but I think it is worth it.
In other words owning guns might be a nice idea if nobody actually used them to kill people. But they do. I am willing to give up the right to own a gun in order to save lives. Simple. For the greater good and all that.
Hey, I'm not saying America doesn't suck da corporate sausage, but at least we leave our porn alone :)
Zodiac Survey
The Aussie ban is just the beginning. I work in a videogame store and I was informed by management that GTA3 was going through the paperwork of being pulled off shelves....the shipments are getting considerably smaller and fewer..so get it while you can!
"that which does not kill me makes me bitter" -anon