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Immersion Sues Sony and Microsoft Over Force Feedback
stereoroid writes: "Immersion Corp. has filed a lawsuit against Sony and Microsoft, alleging unauthorised use of their patents - here's their press release. The suit alleges that any use of touch or force feedback in their consoles violates their patents. For some obscure reason, this was first reported in the Irish Times today."
what about all the coin-ops that had force feedback in the 80's
This whole patent mess is getting absolutely ridiculous! Any idiot could have designed the force feedback stuff, even Microsoft! How did that get a patent on something so simple???
Derek Greene
...Logitech is sued by God over the use of "mouse"
...Barundi tribes sue every computer user because of their "click" language simulated by keyboard presses
..."Patch" Adams, the famous doctor, is suing Microsoft over their use of "Patch"
And, of course, Microsoft patents 1's and 0's :-)
Today, Immersion technologies filed a separate suit against numerous adult "toy" manufacturers for patent infringements relating to a variety of force feedback mechanisms.
The suit names the makers of "orgasmatron" and the makers of the "king donger 3000"
I live my life one quarter pounder at a time -Vinh Diesel
Why don't these companies come out and sue right away if it such a blatant violation of a patent or something? If I were the judge, I'd say "Well, the feedback stuff has been around for 3 years, you say you have had the patent for 5, why'd did you wait so long? Dismissed" Are IP lawyers like amblance chasers? Are there law firms who do nothing but troll IP patents then alert the holder to a violation (and by the way it will only cost you $$$).
"If you are on fire you can just stop, drop, and roll. If you fall into Lava you are just dead." - my 5yr old daughter
I thought Newton would've got all the patents in on force feedback...
Get used to it, various console companies have pulled stunts like this back and forth for years. They've also done dirtier things entirely, like inflict Pokemon and bad North American renditions of Sonic the Hedgehog on us all.
Anybody want a chilidog?
A small company designs something and a larger one tries to steal the idea. And yes anyone could have designed it. But immersion put in the time and resources to do it and that's why they should have a monopoly for it for a short time. Otherwise no one would bother to make new things. Why spend time and money on R&D when someone else will just steal the idea and make money of it.
The *ahem* "naughty toy" industry sues the crap out of Immersion Corp for violating intellectual property rights.
-----
"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad." - Salvador Dali (1904-1989)
I guess now I can't proceed with that forced-feedback sex simulator I was planning...
Doesn't this (and the linking patent) fall under some sort of Abandonment law? I thought that there was some rule where you had to seek action within X number of years once you had knowledge of an infringement and once that time frame ran out you lost your patent rights based on abandonment...IINAL of course, so a reply from one would likely be handy.
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Today's Top Deals
...that Nintendo isn't mentioned. Is it perhaps that Nintendo calls it "Rumble" instead of "force-feedback"?
The main part of these force feedback units is a very unbalaced electric motor. I have those in some of my model R/C cars. Does that mean I should be hearing from Immersion soon?
"Upon attaching the waterblock to my penis, I began to notice that I know nothing about computers." -- JRockway
..silly.
There should be a higher governing body than the patent office that has half a clue and reason to be able to judge and justify such stupid patents.
It's like British Telecom with their patent 'claim' regarding hyperlinks. Sure. With the billions of webpages out there that contain hyperlinks, how on earth do they contemplate reconciliating licensing costs?
As with this bizarre claim, they may sue people, they most likely won't get anywhere - but even if they do, would they want license fee's?
Sure, I can just imagine it "MS Force Feedback Joystick with Free 1yr subscription to the Force Feedback patent people". Yeah right.
It's just another bizarre day in paradise.
"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story..."
For some obscure reason, this was first reported in the Irish Times today.
You mean because the Times scooped their competition? What's so unusual about that? Because it's not a US paper? Not all tech-savvy newspapers are located in the States, you know. Ireland has a thriving tech industry, so it's not all that surprising that they break a tech story now and again.
--Jim
I didn't see the exact patent numbers that were supposedly infringed on. Looking at Immersion's patents, it seems they are for real force feedback. Like making a controller harder to push when you are up against a wall. Not the nerve killing vibrations of the current console controllers. Microsoft did make a true force feedback joystick for the PC though.
Well it isn't a software patent, and the suit is against two big corps we love to hate. But if they are claiming a patent on a vibrating controller, I think there may be prior art.
Oh, one more thing. What happens with companines like Logitech (who also made a true force feedback joystick) that licensed the technology, if the patent is declared invalid. Can they sue for the license fees that they paid?
Why is it so obscure? The Irish Times is a brilliant newspaper.
"Ceilean Súil an ní ná feiceann..."
Clearly I have prior art claims, since when I was 11 or so my friends and I would take turns hitting each other while we played with our Atari.
Never seen such a thing on Sony's consoles. They do have something called Dual Shock though. Feedback from force vs. Two Electrical Discharges - I win!
I guess they will have to sue the automotive industry next because of the force feedback a power steering system gives a driver to prevent them from turning to fast.
My favorite from a quick glance over their patents is number 80 on their list.
"Implementing Force Feedback Over the World Wide Web and Other Computer Networks ". Taking a fairly common feature, and saying it can work over a network. Any network. A quick skim through the patent listing didn't have any reference to a specific unique protocol or anything that they designed.
Are they talking about realtime streaming of force feedback data? Are they talking about embedding that stuff in webpages? If I have my computer shake my mouse a little bit every time an FTP connection fails, can they sue me? It makes no sense.
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
Here's the link to the original article, as it's not on the front page any more. Not much to it really
Firm sues Microsoft, Sony over joystick vibration
If the trees are in the west
I got myself one of those Logitech Mouseman iFeel immersion-technology mouses. It's ridiculous. It even plays music. Yes, the mouse plays music, resembling the floppy drive music back in 80's, you can play tunes on it by adjusting the vibration, en the default drivers does just that.
It feels like you're holding a shaver, not like you could feel the icons on your desktop or anything like that.
"Based on the Greek word, "haptesthai," meaning touch, haptic technology enables people to feel touch sensations while interacting with a digital display, like a computer screen and a hardware device such as a joystick or mouse."
kinda like masturbating your computer....
Sent from your iPad.
Let them sue sony and microsoft, in the end can't they (IMMERSION) be held liable for hand injuries? Hand injury due to vibrating controllers
I SURVIVED THE GREAT SLASHDOT BLACKOUT OF 2002!
And In Next Weeks News. Microsofts Hostile Takeover of Immersion Corp
then the following weeks news:
Microsoft Files Suit Against Sony Computer Entertainment for Patent Infingement
http://www.webhostingtalk.com
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
Immersion, upon winning a lawsuit regarding force feedback, finds itself the target of a MASSIVE class action lawsuit after a Slashdot article brought this stirring subject to the attention of soccer moms and disco dads all across the world.
-- Dan
5,691,898 November 25, 1997 Safe and low cost computer peripherals with force feedback for consumer applications Abstract A method and apparatus for providing safe and low-cost force feedback peripherals for consumer applications. A device microprocessor local to an interface device is coupled to the host by a first interface bus. The microprocessor receives host commands from the host computer on the first interface bus, such as an RS-232 interface, and commands an actuator to apply a force to a user object, such as a joystick, in response to host commands. A sensor detects positions of the user object and outputs signals to the host on a second interface bus, such as a PC game port bus, separate from the first bus. In a "recoil" embodiment, a user initiates force feedback by pressing a button on the joystick, which sends an activation signal to the actuator. In other recoil embodiments, the host computer can transmit one or more enable signals and/or activation signals to the actuator to enable or command forces. A safety switch of the present invention disables the actuator when the interface device is not in use and enables the actuator when an amount of weight over a predetermined amount is placed on the joystick created by a user grasping the joystick. A circuit of the present invention includes a capacitor for storing power provided by an input signal and supplied to the actuator when forces are to be output.
Free cell phone tracking
the actual story as posted on the irish times is here:
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2002/
Its a syndicated story, the 'PA' at the bottom is for the Press Association a Uk news service.
I supect the 'breaking news' section is an entirely automated newsfeed, which would explain why the Irish Times had it posted at 6 in the morning (GMT, their local time).
As early as the 1950's military aircraft were using force feedback so the pilots could "feel" the plane. Fly by wire was just not intuitive without the feedback part. The first plane that I know used this was the Avro Arrow.
An exploration of mixology, spirits and bartending.
From what I hear, here across the pond, Ireland is the silicon valley of Europe.
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Everyone knows the first known version of forced feedback is the Vulcan mind meld!
"Give me your thoughts! GIVE ME YOUR THOUGHTS!!!"
I suspect that Lockheed probably has prior art, however. Force feedback is fairly standard in fly by wire military aircraft.
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I want to patent Warezing. Is there a patent for it. I know its a term. But I want to patent it. It'd be fun. Everytime Cnet or somebody using it as a term, I'll take them to court. I'd be rich!!!!! Maybe not, patents defeat inovation. My sidewinder force-feedback is nice but it only works in 98SE. I looked everywhere for 2000 drivers. I'm speaking of the force feedback stuff. Actual the only feature I like is the Return to center....
l8r
"For some obscure reason, this was first reported in the Irish Times today.""
Why, oh why, doesn't Slashdot post my submitions? Europe has been buzzing with this and other patent cases involving Microsoft. Microsoft recently failed to pay the measly $600,000 to the poor french couple who sold everything they have to fight for thier rights against Microsoft. They won! But Slahsdot doesn't report these things when I, a long time and loyal reader, submit.
It's the Softimage case morons.
There's usually a "no refunds if patent invalidated" clause in the licensing agreement.
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Go to an antique arcade (here's one) and look around a bit. There's machines that use electrical stimulation (low-voltage applied across the handles) and machines that use mechanical feedback (vibration, pulling, pushing). Many of these machines date from the 19th century.
There's nothing *new* about this at all.
Get off my lawn.
Or maybe I don't understand patents, but this could just be them hoping to get a little kick back from a few big companies.
not even close... get a life dude!
"Contrary to popular belief, UNIX is user friendly. It just happens to be selective on who it makes friendship with"
You have a link for that French story? Sounds interesting...
Apparently they pick submissions pretty much at random. And despite their complaining that they have to sift through hundreds of stories a day, they seem to reject mine a few minutes after I submit them.
its that they are issuing bad patents due to bad laws and bad examiners and bad budgeting for the patent office. Reduce the life to 5 years from issue, and start denying software and business process patents as a default action. Another idea would be to post all patent applications to the internet for comment for 180 days before approval. Prior art would show up in a hurry for things like the BT patent and probably this one as well.
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo! http://goo.gl/J9bkO
Immersion says they started work on this in 1993 and pretty much brought about force feedback. There were force feedback arcade games prior to this. Hard Drivin was force feedback and so was Afterburner. Hard Drivin was released in 1990 and Afterburner was released in the 80's. Both prior to 1993. Maybe they own a patent for handheld devices containing force feedback, if so that would explain why they couldn't sue nintendo for the rumble pack as it was not contained in the handheld gaming device it was a seperate unit that was atttached. Anyways they didn't invent force feedback and should not act like they did.
If your not cheating your not trying. If your not trying your not winning and if your not winning why play?
I really don't Immersion is to blame on this one. If the patent office was stupid enough to award the Patent to them without checking for prior art, than it's still something that Microsoft and Sony are bound to recognize.
I remember when the Dual Shock Controller first came out for the PSX and how I was sure to buy one quick because everything I read pointed to a quick removal from the market for a patent infringement.
To Immersion's Defense, they did try to work with MS and Sony to work out a licensing agreement for the technology. I can't imagine that their asking price was that unreasonable seeing as though I had to pay $35 for a PS2 Dual Shock and $40 for the XBox controller.
[From the Article]
Immersion has expanded its licensees into the gaming console market with partners such as MadCatz, Saitek and others
This would indicate to me that other vendors have licensed Immersion's Technology. They sell their products a substantially cheaper price and in many cases are not an inferior product. I find it hard to believe that Sony and MS could not afford to pay this.
This is another case in which the Patent Office has screwed up again. If, as many of these other posts indicate there was prior art to the Force Feedback, then the Patent Office is to blame for awarding this in the first place. Immersion is simply excersing a right they have as patent holder--they are not to blame in this.
My guess is that they filed this suit to drum up publicity for their technology; if you think of every hit against their webpage as a targeted advertisement striking a potential techie customer (slashdotters, no less! Raise your hand if you've bought something stupid in the last year), well, it becomes very cost effective.
Not (Paranoid -> Not (After You))
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
What if Immersion wins this court case and receives full recognition for holding this patent? Does that mean all the kids who played their PS2's and Xboxes too long will be able to sue them for the damage to their wrists as well?
Why bother.
got $50 for it I think... but he got another $50 for the safety pin :-)
Oh ho! You tricky Bastard
Congratulations, you were just modded by an editor! There was no way that two reader-moderators just decided to mod you offtopic twice like that for no reason, without modding the similarly offtopic parent down. I watched as you went from 2 to 0 in a couple seconds. Looks like the fuckwad editors can't take criticism.
No, the patent wouldn't be for the specific method - this is the difference between good patent agents and poor ones.
In UK patents (US ones differ from this) there will be multiple claims for the invention, with claim 1 being the one which is the basic invention, and subsequent claims being addenda to this claim. So, for example, in this case claim 1 might be "A mechanism for transmitting a vibrating sensation to a games user", and claim 2 might be "A mechanism as in claim 1 where the sensation is created by rotating an eccentrically mounted mass" etc.
So often a patent will be filed (and later granted) with a single main claim, and literally dozens of further claims to narrow the thing down - this is done to stop somebody else patenting the more specific version, and essentially locking you out from your own invention.
Note that US patents are different in that there *may* be multiple fundamental claims in a single patent - as in the BT hyperlink patent we were discussing earlier.
Dunstan
The last scintilla of doubt just rode out of town
They do Say that Slashdot is a bis US centric.
And anyhow, good americans shoudn't be bothered with news coming from other parts of the world.
After all, There Lies Dragons...
I wonder if they'll sue the US armed forces for using force feedback in their simulators since the early 70s.
...proves that slashdot moderators never get laid.
How could they hold a patent on thing that has been used for decades in military air simulators, and for at least 15 years in arcade machines?
Additionaly, it was my understanding that X-Box and PS1/2 are using 'vibrating' technology, as opposed to 'force feedback' technology. It would make sense if M$ is sued because of their joysticks, but suing them for 'vibrator'? What's next - sex shops will go out of business because of patent infrigement?
Come on! Stop that....it's getting ridiculous.
You cannot do something anymore without investigating years before to make sure no patent exists && as soon as you do something....ANYTHING, better cover your ass with a patent or you'll get sued by someone who copied you but register that patent before you.
Americans are getting ridiculous about this. Going into court seems to be their favorite activity.
Hooo, and Slashdot, I have a patent for the 'preview' message utility on web site...so this little 'preview' button in this page have to be removed!
I also have a patent on the cursor changing to an hand when you're over an hyperlink.
Please, change your cursor accordingly.
...because I don't want to pay royalties every time I benefit from force feedback of my, er, joystick.
No offense to you guys who claim that "Immersion spends tons of time and money" on developing the science for the patents, but the patents simply don't go past the point of "concept".... There's a patent there, #5,844,392 , that is NOTHING MORE than a blatant rip-off of the VR database browser from 1994's movie Disclosure (which is itself based on the Michael Crichton book, but I doubt these guys read it.... they were probably too busy inventing the concept of a network of computers conneccted to each other and spanning the world).
Kind of odd that they're suing SCEA, Sony and MS over force-feedback on consoles, when the first console maker to include force-feedback in their hardward assortment was Nintendo (the N64 rumble pack was out well before the PSX dual shock). So why aren't they suing Nintendo? One would think that if this were really a lawsuit over copyrights, they'd go after everyone, or at least the first offender.
This is not Offtopic, but a Troll. I guess you didn't click on that link, and truely believed this was a new netscape release. Moderidiots!
And besides, the X Box just came out.
I looked at their site and they list at least 117 distinct patents. Does anyone know exactly which are in dispute?
Oops. Forgot to give my source...
. ht ml
http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,48632,00
the government used force feedback in the 50's!!!!!!!!!!
Pay Unisys before you display pr0n on your website
Used to be that way. I've always heard for instance that when the refridgerator was invented there was a patent granted to it, then someone added a lightbulb and got a patent another patent. Supposedly if you changed one part of the method you could get a new patent. Not anymore though. But for most good patents nowadays you have to get a patent lawyer to write it. They usually can get the patent cover the concept and the mechanical method to do it.
It depends on whether or not they have the concept or the method patented. I don't think concepts should be able to be patented though.
My pager vibrates... oh wait so does my cell phone... Damn... Does that mean they can add Motorola and Nokia to the list?
...can be claimed by the US military and/or it's contractors since aircraft have been using force feedback systems since WWII, and their useage of Multifunction Tactile Manipulatable Controls and Velocity Controller with Force Feedback Stiffness Controls have been in use since the space programs Apollo, the X-15, and in production since the F-15.
The Immersion lawyers were quoted as saying:
"We're gonna grab them and shake them until they start coughing up the money."
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
What about power steering in my car? When I hit a bump or a rut in the road, the steering wheel shakes. Now, I really don't know a whole lot about how things in my car work (odd for a geek, no?), but isn't the whole mechanisim motor-driven? If so, shouldn't that be considered 'force-feedback', especially at this most basic level (being in a REAL car, that is?) Seriously, how long has power steering been around? 20 years? 30 years? I know I've put out a lot of rhetorical questions, but isn't this the same idea?
NerfOnline - Because Nerf Guns aren't just for kids -
WEC Le Mans 24hrs, which according to this page dates back to 1986 (suddenly, I feel very old) had a cabinet shaped like a rotating saucer, which you sat in with a steering wheel. It was mounted on pistons, and if you drove over the kerbs would jolt "baduhm-baduhm"...
As far as I can make out from their website, Immersion's earliest patents only go back as far as 1989.
From their patents list:
115. 6,323,837 11/27/01 Method and Apparatus for Interfacing an Elongated Object With a Computer System.
for those lonely, lonely nights with CUSeeMe...
This is my favorite:
Number 115 on their list is a Method and apparatus for interfacing an elongated object with a computer system.
Is this just a joystick, or am I missing something? I skimmed the claims, but they're a bit hard to follow because the figures are missing (seems to be a USPTO link problem).
Isn't the idea of suing Sony and M$ kind of STUPID, especially over something as frivolous and obviously retarded ? That's like a 4 year old trying to beat up a 200lb boxer, for a lollypop (let's assume the boxer is on heroin and doesn't mind killing kids - much like Sony).
KO in one round, I say.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
I don't know about the XBOX but the Playstation 2 controller senses how hard you press on the buttons or how hard you push the stick which is really cool and it seems like that is what they are suing for.
:)
If they really developed that technology all the power to them
I figured the case was frivoulous(sp?), but after reading the brief: Logitech has been paying royalties. M$oft is gonna lose this one.
I don't know the names of specific games, but I swear as a kid there used to be all sorts of games at the arcades with this tech. Mostly I remember driving games that you sit in where the seat vibrates when you crash and such? Anybody else know more about this than I do, or am I dreaming?
Unix is user friendly, it's just selective about who its friends are.
Congratulations, you were just modded by an editor! There was no way that two reader-moderators just decided to mod you offtopic twice like that for no reason, without modding the similarly offtopic parent down. I watched as you went from 2 to 0 in a couple seconds. Looks like the fuckwad editors can't take criticism.
Woo, what do I win?
Let me guess, another 2 mods down!
Could someone summarize what Immersion's patent really covers?
Prior use of force feedback in computer control systems goes back at least 35 years. In the 1970s, CERN developed a control system for a synchrotron which used it. The operator could control many currents and voltages using a small number of knobs (which you turned like volume controls). First you had to tell the computer to assign a knob to the desired quantity to be controlled, then you twiddled the knob.
Where the force feedback came in, was that the control system made the knob "stiffer" to turn if you were using it to control a large amount of current (hundreds of amperes) than if you were using it to control tiny currents (milliamperes). This was found to reduce the likelihood of damaging blunders.
for more details see here.
Or just use google. Like normal people do.
when the dual force for the ps1 came out?
Got Freedom?
Thinking?
Duh, my other post starts wrong. Not mod totals, it's his sig. You'll have to excuse me, I just woke up. :-D
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
which you'll see in my patent for manually operated self-gratification... errr masturbation. I've also patented the masturbate with a kleenex over the head technique which prevents stalactite formation and sperm in the eye syndrome.
But then, you guys would have to pay me.
Score: -2, Obnoxious yet funny
I believe Ed Link's original 'BlueBox' flight simulator had force-feedback controls back in 1929. Certainly the flight simulators of the 1960's had them - and that pre-dates Immersion's patents.
:-)
http://www.link.com/history.html
Aaarrgghhh - it's so hard to choose...Hate Microsoft...Hate Patents...Hate Microsoft...I need a Cowboy Neal option here!
Whens it going to end? Capitalism is fine, but too much of anything is bad. When will people figure out, too much capitalism, too much competition, and not enough sharing is bad? Yes moderate competition fuels innovation, too much competition however makes the enviornment so competitive that no one can innovate.
Imagine the innovation and the new technologies we'd have, if third world countries had access to all the information in the world, and any kid rich or poor could be the next einstien or bill gates, any living person, any of the 6 billion people could come out with an idea, which changes the world and shares the idea for free.
So now who are we (Slashdot) gonna support in this issue? A patent which is always bad (EVIL! EVIL!) or are we going to side with Microsoft's right to innovate, as expressed (indirectly) by the quote above? Is it possible that all pantents aren't bad? Or is it possible that not everything Microsoft does is bad? Hmm.....
I suppose if you're gonna mention the technology purely from the mechanical idea, it works just the same as a vibrator a device used to pleasure bored housewives and ugly girls since the electric motor came about.
Whatever the merits of this case, I will enjoy M$'s beating. The case is either a valid use of patent law or a spurious attempt to gain a franchise on a general idea. If it's the first, M$ deserves to be beat. If it's the second, M$ deserves to be beat by the laws they helped innovate.
Someone was good enough to post one of the patents involved. It looks fairly specific. It specifies energy storage by a capacitor, and microprocesor control in the handset. Hmmm, a microprocessor for a specific task and a capacitor for energy storage, neither is too new or unique individually. Specifying them together for a determined purpose starts to look like a valid invention. Any invention can be broken down into a combination of general parts that anyone might look at and call obvious. Think of a piece of aluminum sheet, made ridgid by stamping holes and forming the edges, rivited above another sheet which has been formed to recieve it and scored near one end of it. The first sheet when raised by the long end applies pressure to the second sheet that causes it to shear around 90% of the scored shape and bend at the unsheared portion. Yes, that is a pop top. Nothing new about any of the pieces, a leaver, formed sheets, scores. Together, however, they make a new machine that was not obvious to people who have been working metals for six thousand years.
Then again, it might just be stupid to say that it's unique because the microprocessor and energy storage is in your hand not in the box. If it is possible to abuse the law like that, MicroSoft's contribution has been large. Those that live by the sword, die by the sword. It's even more satisfying to see one of the great sword makers and wielders stuck. Eat you innovation, Microshit.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I'm not so confused anymore. I could never figure out if the slashdot community hated pointless patents, privacy threats, M$, AOL, or Big Name Corporation, Inc more than the other.
I've yet seen a post against M$ so now the picture is so much clearer on the slashdot power rankings. (S.PR)
Thanks slashdot community, I can sleep better now.
Force feed back controls i belive were first used in a military aircraft the canadians made called the Avro Arrow (basically the first moderen jet airplaine)
-Yeah, I spell THAT BAD-
I just think that with as much money that we throw around elsewhere in this country that the patent office is something that needs to be invested in heavily. I don't want to sound like I'm attacking the Patent Office entirely--I realize there is a huge amount of Bureaucracy behind the workings of the office.
When you stop and think about how important Patents are to our system of Capitalism (Kills any type of competition in some cases if one is granted / or have ridiculous suits despite the fact that there are obvious cases of prior art) that this is something that needs a serious overhall. The government needs to spend the extra money in this area to ensure consumer safety. After all, we're shelling out God knows how much for a Missle Shield that's a violation of missle treaties and that has not been proven to work at all and more so now under the guise that Terrorist Groups can get Nukes from Russia blocs. (Despite the fact that it has long been argued that countries can easily get their hands on a Nuke, it's the delivery part that is near impossible to get). I could be wrong though--who woulda thought somebody would ues planes as a weapon.
Your suggestion regarding the companies being responsible for doing the background on Patents would be excellent if I thought we could really trust the companies on this matter. Maybe have some sort of Auditing system for a certan percentage of Patent Filings and stiff penalties for violations. Or perhaps what we need is another government office to oversee this aspect of patent filings.
I believe the science fiction author Robert
Heinlein dealt with remote control gloves in "Waldo" a 1942 science fiction story. I believe (but can't at present confirm) that they had a force feedback mechanism.
see http://www.wegrokit.com/jmwami.htm
"Slashdot is about legos and staplers." -Cmdr. Taco
WHILE
As long as there's a patent office;
AND
As long as you aren't in the patent office;
THEN
You are going to find some/all patents offensive;
'NUFF.
but really. the patent office is a fucking moronic shambles. let's get rid of it already.
"Stratigraphically the origin of agriculture and thermonuclear destruction will appear essentially simultaneous" -- Lee
Many of the Immersion patents appear to be predated by a variety of anticipating prior art. For example, Rick Satava's telepresence surgery work when he was at ARPA, in the late '80s-mid '90s, showed haptic control of geometric representations of objects and files over IP networks as early as 1992. Other examples can be found by looking at the past proceedings from the Medicine Meets Virtual Reality conferences (http://www.nextmed.com/mmvr_virtual_reality.html) , now in their 10th year.
They were forced into bankrupcy and have been mucking their way through the courts for how long, so they've been on the hook for almost 10 years now (since SoftImage began screwing around with them), and they only got $200 grand!?!?
Patents are important especially in a capitalist society. Without patents, companies would have no incentive to invest in R&D. Let's just say that you are a company and have just spent $10 million in research and you can't patent your idea, your competitor has a significant advantage in that they can duplicate your idea with the only cost being manufacturing.
I don't think this is as frivolous as a business model patent (like the ones Amazon have). There is a product and a technology behind it. It's not just an idea.
_______________________________
"I'm not Conceited...I'm just a realist..."
Wouldnt it be cool if someone patented patenting, so he could get a royalty when anyone tried to patents.
Maybe I check the uspto.gov regarding this
hey... maybe that boy in the uk who got stress related conditions after playing with his force feeback controler should sue immersion
I believe sex is highly over rated... unless it involves me
Then maybe, finally, the public will realise they how absoloutely ridiculous the patent situation is (not just all slashdotters). Let's not forget where the flaw is: immersion should never have been allowed to make such a patent in the first place . Or you could argue that MS and Sony should have never ripped their patent. I hope this really gets in the public eye. I don't think the patent should have been put forward, but it's worth carrying it out just so that Joe Shmoe will criticise the patent office (don't forget that Middle America's running the country - that's why American politicians go on chat shows and wear masks of the opposition).
"You know you don't act like a scientist, you're more like a game show host." Dana Barret
Nice use of a sloppy web redirector. Kudos.
- RustyTaco
Many years ago this was a thriving, happy planet - people, cities, shops, a normal world. Except that on the high streets of these cities there were slightly more law firms than one might have thought necessary. And slowly, insidiously, the number of the law firms were increasing. It's a well-known economic phenomenon but tragic to see it in operation, for the more law firms there were, the more lawsuits they had to make and the worse and more unrealistic they became. And the worse they were to defend against, the more people had to pay to keep themselves in business, and the more the law firms proliferated, until the whole economy of the place passed what I believe is termed the Lawsuit Event Horizon, and it became no longer economically possible to do anything other than make lawsuits. Result - collapse, ruin and famine. Most of the population died out. Those few who had the right kind of genetic instability mutated into birds who cursed their feet, cursed the ground and vowed that no one should walk on it again.
Paraphrased from "Restaurant at the End of the Universe" by Douglas Adams - originally not about Earth but about shoe shops on Frogstar B.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Just out of curiousity how come Nintendo isn't getting sued as well? Although they were the first to provide tactile feedback on a console controller with the Rumble Pack in the N64, why weren't they targetted then?
what about nintendo's rumble pack? that allows users to feel vibrations when playing too!
spend money here
Lawyers for the near extinct "Sith" are suing the "Jedi" religion for illegal and monopolistic manipulations of "the Force" that lead to a near total market control of "the Force" by said "Jedi" religion. The Sith Lawyers also claim that due to unfair and uncompetative practices, their "air supply was cut off." by illegal manipulations of the force by the Jedi.
A Quote from Darth Maul, executive Vice president of Sith LTD's "Reaquisition" division: "They claim to have total control of the force, but we had it first, until Yoda and his Ilk, almost wiped us out 1000 years ago."
I believe sex is highly over rated... unless it involves me
Let Immersion have the patent.
We're due for a whole new round of legal cases for "white finger syndrome" anyway. Legal costs incurred by Sony & Microshaft can then be recouped from the ongoing royalty payments made to Immersion. Ha!
*this posting does not constitute true legal advice, persons wanting true legal advice should consult with a qualified lawyer.
*** I am the real stylewagon
In the original radio series, that was about shoe shops, not lawsuits.
WHAT a moron. I really have to stop reading the -1 comments.
Yup, Black & White is what made me buy a Logitech iFeel mouse, and I've got to say it's pretty good (Logitech licenced Immersion technology for this).
While the Windows desktop feedback gets boring very quickly, and their "Businessware" software (feedback for Word & Excel) is just plain annoying, in games it does actually work really well. The Half-Life/Team Fortress/Counterstrike plugin is pretty good, and Black & White definitely benefits plus you get a few extra mission-quests.
Just have to mention one of the Immersion-enabled quests in B&W (my favorite one), it's on first level:- You find a hippie standing outside his hut next to a ring of magic mushrooms and a boiling cauldron (ready to get his brew on), and to help him you have to pick which one is "buzziest" by holding your cursor over the them and feeling how strong the vibes are through the mouse! A great and funny use of feedback technology if ever there was one :)
A list of supported games can be found here and game download mods (including Serious Sam 1 & 2, No-one Lives Forever, and Unreal Tournament, but no Max Payne unfortunately) are here
Stef
Apparently they pick submissions pretty much at random.
Hell, I've had submissions rejected, only to see the exact same story posted several hours later with no attribution.
Sega's Out Run had force feedback in 1986. More importantly, there seems to be a paper by a J. Batter from IFIP 1971 called "GROPE-I: A computer display to the sense of feel." It is referenced on a UNC force feedback research page as well as by a 1985 SIGGRAPH article (paid ACM membership required). This is all well before the Feb., 1990 filing date of Immersion's earliest relevant patent.
The irony is that if J. Batter had filed a patent in 1971, it would have expired before Immersion's patent was filed!
For some obscure reason, this was first reported in the Irish Times today.
I couldn't find any references to potatoes OR alcohol. Why are the Irish interested?
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Then we wouldn't have had all the problems with the GIF format. UNISYS waited over 10 years for that one to build.
Zodiac Survey
Heh...you're an idiot. The "moderation totals" are merely a sig and a joke, and you missed both.
Zodiac Survey
Absolutely, I'm not disputing the need for patents. The type of patent you describe is the type that our system does best for protecting. What I get frustrated over is what you mentioned--the type of patents that companies like Amazon get.
But really, "why are we interested?"?
FYI Ireland overtook the US to become the worlds biggest software exporter in 1999, and was top in 2001... so do enjoy your laugh at the expense of this poor technologically-backward country... :-)
Remember, God created whiskey to stop us ruling the world.
It's Lent, and we're off the drink...
Al.