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Vegas: Monorails v. Gridlock
TimeTrip writes "Vegas seems to be taking a little cue from Disney. 'Las Vegas, which never stops thinking big, has just embarked on its most ambitious, costly attempt to solve a problem that once seemed impossible to have in this sprawling desert valley: gridlock. It is building the nation's largest monorail system.'"
Or maybe they'll be taking their cue from Lyle Lanly. Frankly this sounds more
like a Shelbyville idea.
Marge vs the Monorail???
MONORAIL!
No... Prolly not.
Not on your life, my hindu friend!
Just make bigger and wider highways like Houston.
The Monorail Song:
Monorail Lyle Lanley: Well, sir, there's nothing on earth Like a genuine, Bona fide, Electrified, Six-car Monorail! What'd I say? Ned Flanders: Monorail! Lyle Lanley: What's it called? Patty+Selma: Monorail! Lyle Lanley: That's right! Monorail! [crowd chants `Monorail' softly and rhythmically] Miss Hoover: I hear those things are awfully loud... Lyle Lanley: It glides as softly as a cloud. Apu: Is there a chance the track could bend? Lyle Lanley: Not on your life, my Hindu friend. Barney: What about us brain-dead slobs? Lyle Lanley: You'll be given cushy jobs. Abe: Were you sent here by the devil? Lyle Lanley: No, good sir, I'm on the level. Wiggum: The ring came off my pudding can. Lyle Lanley: Take my pen knife, my good man. I swear it's Springfield's only choice... Throw up your hands and raise your voice! All: Monorail! Lyle Lanley: What's it called? All: Monorail! Lyle Lanley: Once again... All: Monorail! Marge: But Main Street's still all cracked and broken... Bart: Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken! All: Monorail! Monorail! Monorail! [big finish] Monorail! Homer: Mono... D'oh!
What a fun and thrilling ride.. Always a real gamble. It really fits into the theme of Vegas too... What a nice family town
Anyone who comes to work by bus, bike or commuter van at least four times a month is eligible to enter a weekly drawing that rewards 100 people with $100 each.
I love the vegas twist on mass transit. Instead of throwing your dollar into a meter, you get to toss it into a one armed bandit. I can see the lines of blue haired ladies lining up for their chance to play a role of the bus.
Glass protected stations that protect people from walking on the track are not new. In London I remember going to an underground stop which had glass doors so you couldn't go on the track. It is a good idea to implement it in Las Vegas though.
Well, I've never been to Vegas, but I've heard that the dry desert air plays some funny optical illusion tricks with your eyes and makes distances look much shorter than they actually are, tricking people into walking much more than they normally would. Riding a monorail beats all that exhausting physical activity any day of the week in my book.
Lyle Lanley: Well sir, there's nothin' on earth like a genuine, bonafide, electrified, six-car monorail!
What'd I say?
Ned Flanders: Monorail!
Lyle: What's it called?
Patty & Selma: Monorail
Lyle: That's right, monorail!
All: Monorail, monorail, monorail...
Ms Hoover: I hear those things are awfully loud
Lyle: It glides as softly as a cloud
Apu: Is there a chance the track could bend?
Lyle: Not on your life, my Hindu friend
Barney: What about us braindead slobs?
Lyle: You'll be given cushy jobs
Grampa: Were you sent here by the devil?
Lyle: No, good sir, I'm on the level
Chief Wiggum: The ring came off my pudding can
Lyle: Take my pen knife, my good man
I swear it's Springfield's only choice
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!
All: Monorail!
Lyle: What's it called?
All: Monorail!
Lyle: Once again!
All: Monorail!
Marge: But Main Street's still all cracked and broken
Bart: Sorry, mom, the mob has spoken
All: Monorail! Monorail! Monorail!
Homer Mono- d'oh!
Vegas has consistently chosen to identify the problem and solve it, telling the various special interests to love it or lump it.
Make no mistake -- it's the dollar in action, but I say: whatever works.
Even with your simpsons references you shall never be cool or accepted! And this story is something for WIRED to fill up their crappy pages with, not something I actually want to leran.
-=The Dude=-
Just ask Ogdenville, North Haverbrook, and Brockway!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!
Get off my lawn.
They've been trying to expand the monorail in Seattle for years without any luck. It's a great idea if it can be implimented. I think it would work quite well in Vegas as it's an amusement park in and of itself.
(/local/home/curiosity)-#who -u|grep thecat|cut -c 44-49|xargs kill -9
"We're twice as smart as the people of Shelbyville! Just tell us your idea, and we'll vote for it!!" :D
Ahh, Marge vs. the Monorail, one of the many amazing episodes of The Simpsons, Season 4.
http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/Niles.html
For a population of 2 million, why?
I mean, they have a bus transportation system (the CAT bus, which apparently sucks, but anyway)
The world... she makes no sense!
Personally though all I can think about is the Monorail Simpsons Episode...Doh!
Lyle Lanley: Well, sir, there's nothing on earth Like a genuine, Bona fide, Electrified, Six-car Monorail! What'd I say?
Ned Flanders: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
Patty+Selma: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: That's right! Monorail! [crowd chants `Monorail' softly and rhythmically]
Miss Hoover: I hear those things are awfully loud...
Lyle Lanley: It glides as softly as a cloud.
Apu: Is there a chance the track could bend?
Lyle Lanley: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.
Barney: What about us brain-dead slobs?
Lyle Lanley: You'll be given cushy jobs.
Abe: Were you sent here by the devil?
Lyle Lanley: No, good sir, I'm on the level.
Wiggum: The ring came off my pudding can.
Lyle Lanley: Take my pen knife, my good man. I swear it's Springfield's only choice...Throw up your hands and raise your voice!
All: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
All: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: Once again...
All: Monorail!
Marge: But Main Street's still all cracked and broken...
Bart: Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken!
All: Monorail! Monorail! Monorail! [big finish] Monorail!
Homer: Mono... D'oh!
Defeating the lameness filter sure is boring. Your comment violated the "postercomment" compression filter. Try less whitespace and/or less repetition. Comment aborted. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal. Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page)
-Linux was for the masses, who spoke, and everything was crystal clear.
I see no forseeable danger in this at all. Just keep a big letter 'M' on the side of the train for emergency braking, along with an oversized steel donut.
That's right folks. Take your winnings from Vegas and spend it on the Monorail to get home. And hope Homer's not driving.
I'm the Devil the Windows users warned you about.
Let's get this out of the way early:
SELECT *
FROM smartass_remarks
WHERE simpsons='t' AND
topic='monorail'
There.
Am I right? Eh?!?! Ever been there, you know of what I say.
Every fscking time I've been there I have to fork over ~$10 for a Bell taxi or something, which all smell like they last scrubbed inside with a dead cat! Seriously, every other major city I've been in the big hotels have shuttles, but not LV, I swear it's a labor thing of somesort or a major bribe has been paid.
In either case, I would certainly like to see how well the monorail plan gets around to the airport.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Even though the 500mil plus price tag is large, this is a small project. 7miles first phase. To be of any use, it has to stretch south just a little farther to the airport. IT also needs expansion into the HUGE suburbs of vegas. Have you ever flown over Los Vegas? THe suburbs are huge, how do the support them? Anyways, Mass transit can't be something a municipality carefully wades into. They have to go and jump in with lead weights. Thats the only way for this to besome well used. And why is it so expensive? DisneyWorld has a cheaper monorail that carries less people, but proportionally, the costs of the Vegas system seem very high.
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
So try to realise that this is real, effective transit, where it is desperately needed. Try to lay off the monorail jokes, and go visit The Monorail Society for more info.
This reminds me of the guy who built his own monorail in his yard. I've gotta wonder which is cheaper per mile. This guy's or the one going in Las Vegas.
Slashdot Article About Him
Love,
Jay and Silent Bob
Look at your sig... this is the 3rd day of said blackout.. and you're POSTING constructive comments to the story? I don't think this tactic is working out very well, sorry to say. I pity you.
If you really wanted to make an impact, you'd really need to get together way more users to boycott slashdot than what is going on now.
If Vegas gets a monorail, will we have HBO's "Monorail Confessions" to look forward to?
~Philly
It is good to see Las Vegas actually pour some concrete. Seattle (unlike the article implies) already passed a measure to extend by up to 40 miles the mono-rail, passed taxes (well, rammed them down the throats of the sensible people that knew they'd never see service under the planned terms) for a light rail system, and has managed to spend all the allocated money without breaking ground. (they did buy the trains already, and have taken deliver on some, but not facilities to actually even house them, let alone track to run them on.) And, to make matters worse, several of the officials have admitted they grossly underestimated the costs because the voters would never have passed it with legitmate figures. So Vegas gets it right and Seattle bites.
A few cool mockups, and some more detailed maps.
http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/LasVegas.html
http://www.lvnvmonorail.com/
"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times." Bill Hicks
Quimby: And now, I'd like to turn things over to our Grand Marshall,
Mr. Leonard Nimoy.
Nimoy: I'd say this vessel could do at least Warp Five.
[appreciative laughter from the crowd]
Quimby: And let me say, ``May the Force Be With You!''
Nimoy: [annoyed] Do you even know who I am?
Quimby: [indignant] I think I do. Weren't you one of the Little Rascals?
Why would you have it go at speeds up to 50mph if it's only 7 miles long? I would guess most people getting on it would want to see the sites around.
Scrollshock. Nuff said.
I'm the Devil the Windows users warned you about.
A monorail? For Vegas? Talk about being a bad design if Vegas is packed full of casinos. That would involve a raised track no matter what, people going through gates, and other niceties. Plus, it may not be very stable.
But a dual-rail track design would be more stable and cost effective -- you can run regular trains if your rails are speced the same. Take Baltimore, MD's Light Rail system. They're so exact that all they need is to pass NTSB regulations.
Of course, with all the drunks out there, you may want to use Washington DC's design, which is a go-anywhere subway/ground system, using gates so all the drunks don't "accidently" run infront of a train. Baltimore's light-rail system has this annoying habbit of crushing any truck/car/semi that tries to ram into it head-on....
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
Here's a page (framed, mozilla unfriendly, slow jsp)
from the principal contractor, Bombardier.
This is the largest of three monorails they are building (although they say 4 miles, not 8). What's cool is that two of the three are for systems to get around downtown, not just for a system to get you to the airport parking lot.
Unfortunately, the careers page doesn't reveal any openings. Sigh, this is the sort of socially responsible project that so many aerospace companies were to turn to after the cold war ended.
I figured that was more of a Shelbyville idea....
When a cat is dropped, it always lands on its feet.
When toast is dropped, it always lands buttered side down.
It was proposed to strap giant slabs of hot buttered toast to the back of a hundred tethered cats; the two opposing forces will cause the cats to hover, spinning inches above the ground. Using the giant buttered toast-cat array, a high-speed monorail could easily resolve Vegas Gridlock!
Though the site is cheesy in parts, the idea is sound.
Simple, fast, cheap transportation. I am a big fan, and think it would be better than a $650 million 7 mile monorail. Capacity would be a little lower per line, but lines are WAY cheaper to build.
Just a thought.
"We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." -Mark Twain
"We had to keep the nature of the city in mind," said Todd Walker, director of communications for the company managing the monorail."
How come I've never lived in a city where the public contractors freely admit building around the general drunkeness of the public? "Don't trust your citizens around sharp objects, electricity, or fire? No problem in our town!"
although yes, getting to the airport would be crucial in my eyes, the way that this may service the sprawling urban areas is that most people will not enter the city, but in fact drive to the ned of the run, where they will leave their cars.
i did this recently to avoid the 405 here in california (a horrible freeway for traffic), by leaving my car at universal studios, catching the train, and getting to staples center in about 10 minutes.... normally a hour at least!
its going to be a goos start... but please oh please get it to the airport terminal!
There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
There are plenty of reasons to encourage this sort of thing, especially when you consider the benefits from it. I am not even talking about the envrionmental benefits either. The real motivator for this should be Self Intrest. Cars are simply too expensive to be worth it.
You pay for the Car, gas, parking, insurance, and maintenence. If your able to take advantage of a decent mass transit system, you will at most need to pay for the access pass. The costs of such passes are always cheaper then the costs of using and maintaining a vehicle.
The money you save as a result of using Mass Transit can be redirected to other, more fun costs. Like Videogames, new computer gear, and other electronic goodies.
END COMMUNICATION
I was just in Vegas a few weeks ago. The monorail is in various states of completion along its route, but it is very impressive. I was initially confused, as some places looked as though they were already operational; alas, there was only the track. Other places just barely had formwork in place, not even the concrete poured yet. But the really interesting thing is that the monorail seems to be "integrated" into a few of the casinos along its route, passing under/over/through some of the casino eye-candy.
From a purely selfish point of view, it makes a lot of sense for the casinos to support the project. It took 30 minutes to drive the length of the Strip during rush hour... at 3am it was closer to 5 minutes, even including a few red lights. Now, casinos really don't want you leaving, but most realize that half the people in Vegas aren't there to gamble -- but they spend money anyway, be it in the buffet line or in the themed casino shopping malls. Allowing all those mobile customers to more easily patronize your establishments makes a lot of sense.
But the best thing Las Vegas could do would be to extend the line to McCarran Airport. It's not that I minded the $5 I paid for a van ride to my hotel, it's the hour I waited for said van and the additional 30 minute ride down the Strip. A monorail would solve that problem very nicely. It would also be a natural extension of the "light-rail" line that shuttles passengers between the old and new terminal buildings within the airport. (As an architectural aside, the new terminal building is a very nice example of "high-tech" design. The cable-truss window walls are especially beautiful to behold...)
"I came here to kick ass and chew bubblegum. I'm all out of bubblegum." MSE USC APX AIA CSI CASp
I know that Vegas isn't really for geeks, so I figured that I'll mention that Las Vegas already has a small monorail. It goes between MGM and Bally's, and every time that I have used it it is *packed*. Not just full, but packed, and you often have to wait for 2 trips to get on. It's a *great* idea. I'll definately use it when it's done. It's hot as fuck there in the summer (120), and it's a long fucking walk between even the casinos that are close together. I'm young and healthy, and during the summer, I have trouble walking from say, Bellagio to New York, New York. I can only imagine that older people will love it. I know that I'll use it.
Why a monorail? How is it superior to the standard two-rail trains and subways that populate the land? Is it more stable? Safer? Cheaper to build? Cheaper to maintain? Or is it just nifty-looking, like the rest of Vegas?
Vegas should just skip the monorail phase and go straight to transporters.
Or Segways . Close the strip to cars and fill the city with Segways. It'd be the perfect commercial for both the city and the Segway.
Or Trebuchets . Boy, I'm full of helpful ideas tonight!
The Seattle Monorail Project aims to put a monorail in downtown Seattle. It's set to be put to a vote in November, I think.
Seattle suffers from the same problem: too many damn cars. With the 2nd worst rush hour traffic in the US (behind LA) I hope they can pull it off. There have been fights with light rail folks, but I think monorail is a much better option. Keep it above grade so there is little disruption of traffic. Many claim that monorail is Mickey Mouse transit. (no thanks to certain Simpson's parodies). Keep in mind that millions use monorail daily for transportation in Japan. When the people from Seattle went over to look at Japan's system they were blown away by its efficiency and capacity. After spending time abroad, I've become very disappointed with the mass transit systems in the US (or lack there of).
We love our cars way too much.
A speech...
I still find it curious that the west really doesn't depend on public transportation.
I live in Boston, and there is no doubt in my mind that today, tomorrow, and next week I'll be taking the train to work. It's about 10x cheaper than driving & parking in the city. And lots easier too.
I drive into work about once a month. That's plenty.
But I guess each to his own. If you love to be seen in your car, well, then I guess then that settles the issue!
Seriously, I mean the AC's right. The post in question clearly wasn't a troll. Heck, I'd even hesistate to mod the original down as Redundant, seeing as it came only two minutes after the first posting of the song. And come on, given the article topic, it's not like you didn't expect the song to make a showing, right? =)
Not only is this an idea used by Disney, the trains themselves are Disney Engineering Mk.IV. class monorails. They were designed and built by Disney.
Disney replaced the Mk.IVs with Bombardier built Mk.VIs (The Mk.Vs are at DisneyLand). The new trains are inferior according to the drivers, but the trains had been aquired already. They are, in all fairness, more roomy to the passengers. Disney then sold the old Mk.IVs, still in perfect condition, to the city of Las Vegas.
So, when you are riding on a train between hotels, you are most likely riding the same train you might have riden 10 years ago at Walt Disney World.
-twb
Hey, that's great, we can look forward to drunken sots riding around all night on the monorail in their own pool of spew. That's a real attraction, isn't it?
"Look kids, a pyramid, Venice, a castle, a pirate ship! Honey, don't keep away from that man Aren't the bright lights don't stick your food in that, it's disgusting beautiful? Would you like to go to the top or the Mister, put that whiskey bottle away and don't look at my kid like that or there's gonna be some real trouble Stratosphere?"
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
The monorail could cut-out most of my commute to work each day, but at $2.50 each way, there's no way I could afford it. I make just over $6 per hour, and after taxes, SSN, etc., that comes-out to about $4 per hour. So, I would spend 1 hour 15 minutes each day working to just pay for the ride? No thanks. I'll have to thank the city counsel for building something that isn't of use to most of the people that live here.
I got 20 to 1 odds on 2006, place ya bets.
Sheesh. If monorails were really so good, they would be all over the place. But 200 years (okay, 198) years after Richard Trevithick invented the steam locomotive (btw, the , birail systems are quite prevalent throughout the known universe).
Must be their inherent simplicity and stability, no? If you really look around, there aren't really much monorails...
Monorails are a Disney thing, mainly, right? How many city officials did the Mouse buy? Judging from their track record, who knows...
the monorail is great; i recently spent almost an hour on the strip, moved maybe two car lengths, desperate to pee. it sucked.
they need more lateral action off the strip, maybe with some cheep buses or something, so guys like me can get to the strip from our cheap hotels...
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
As a huge monorail fan(atic) I think this idea is a great idea. What's not to like about monorails? They're quiet, clean, and fast. Monorails make hardly any noise compared to trolleys and cars. They're clean and don't cause any pollution, they're also friendly to the environment since they don't interfere with natural migratory paths, and can integrate easily in big cities. Since they're elevated they don't have to stop at traffic lights like trolleys do. So they're average speed is much higher than cars and trolleys.
If cost seems to be a factor, don't worry this construction is taking place in Las Vegas. You'll be sure that casinos are pouring money into exaggerated stations and whatnot. Monorails can be built much cheaper. Don't forget about the long-term costs. As trolleys may seem cheaper at first, but in the long run maintenance and accident wise, monorails are much cheaper.
Don't worry about Monorails not being 'proven.' Asia has many monorails that run reliable for years (even some at a profit.) We also have local systems like the Seattle Monorail and the Disney Land and Disney World Monorails. If you think that the Disney Monorails are just 'rides' think about their purpose: they get people from Point A to Point B efficiently. Isn't that the whole purpose of mass transit?
Monorails were way ahead of their time, especially with the ALWEG Monorail in the 1960s. Now is the time to consider ways to fix our present day traffic problems with more technically advanced technologies. Widening highways is no longer an option for many cities and only serves as a 'band-aid' solution. Trolleys can no longer accommodate our present problems due to their lines being ripped up and replaced with roads. I embrace fellow geeks to look in awe at such an engineering marvel, that can prove to be the most cost-effective solution in the future.
so there's one track, that's not a loop? doesn't that mean there can only be one train going back and forth?
i'm no mono-thingy-guy, but that doesn't seem like it would relieve the congestion nearly as much as a loop track with >1 train running continuously in one direction.
though, it is vegas. maybe they could set up some game of chance that would land you at the front of the line.
...for every stupid story gracing an active /. server, there are dozens and dozens of idiots willing to shame themselves in public. Thanks to every one of you brainless dolts for sharing. I so needed to hear your opinion on proposed mass transit in the desert.
Everyone that has worked on a project related to public works or transit please raise their hand?
Anyone here that understands crowd control or urban development?
Anyone familiar with how other countries have addressed this topic?
(counting show of hands....done)
None...I thought so. jeesh...
A bunch of posters here have wondered "why build such a thing?" Having just had the misfortune of visiting Vegas, let me say why the city is uniquely suited to benefit from a monorail.
Like no other city, Las Vegas is made up a tremendously high percentage of people who visit just for a the weekend. Tens of thousands of people fly into Vegas every week, all of whom go directly to the casinos, where they sleep in the upstairs hotel rooms. Right now, they essentially have two viable choices: cab or rental car.
Nobody wants to go through the hassle of figuring out a bus system just after flying into town. And walking that mile or so to the casinos, with luggage, in the dessert heat won't work either. A monorail dedicated to connect the airport with the strip is an incredible idea, as much as I may personally detest gambling.
I'm generally "Interesting," "Insightful," and even "Funny" here. What the hell happens to me at parties?
Too bad they are thinking "big 1960's style public transportation". A monorail system like Personal Rapid Transit would have been so much nicer. See also here.
One can only hope that this will be as good as the "People Mover". The monorail running through the Urban Blight Theme Park: Detroit.
Where I live (Auckland, New Zealand), there are major traffic problems. Sucessive administrations have ignored building motorways and public transport, and now there is gridlock. Sir Robbie, the populist Jewish communist (literally) major of the 1960s wanted to build monorail around the city, but nobody would do it. Now we have hardly any public transport except a few busses which never run on time, a half finnished motorway, and the major doesn't want to do anything except build roads everywhere.
I miss Phil Hartman. Hit my karma if you need to, but I needed to say it.
------
Today's Top Deals
If you group all the cities in my area up loosely (and I mean very loosely) you might get 300,000 people.
Yet my neighbouring city (Kitchener-Waterloo) has proposed to build miles of streetcars because they think this will move the average 2 - 5 riders on each bus off them to streetcars that don't even stop in their neighbourhood. This is even dumber than when they washed millions down the hole with an unread contract with RIM. Sheesh, its even dumber than when two a local town mayor was caught for DUI.
God, when I read the title in the newspaper I was just so freakin' glad I live far enough out of town that I didn't vote for any of those idiots.
Let's get this out of the way early:
SELECT *
FROM smartass_remarks
WHERE simpsons='t' AND
topic='monorail'
There.
Hmm... I'd use something more like:
SELECT *
FROM smartass_remarks
WHERE name='Simpsons' AND
topic='monorail'
or are you just assuming that all of our smart ass remarks come from The Simpsons?
Perhaps the people building this could get something out of trying two trains in Japan.
- The monorail from Shimbashi (in Tokyo near the Ginza) to Ariake (manmade peninsula with convention and amusement facilities).
This is an unmanned, beautiful monorail which loops out over the sea. Has some good handholds and soft parts you can lean on because it seems on a narrow train with lots of windows you get pushed strongly to the side when you don't expect it. Beautiful glass car in front is a great panorama.
- The newest subway built in Tokyo, opened last year: Namboku Line which runs from northern Tokyo down to fashionable Azabu. (Like the above monorail I believe) the platform is enclosed on either side by glass walls interrupted by sliding glass doors which only open when the train stops right in front of it. There are metal posts with electric eyes on them just inside where the doors retract, so that they won't try to close while someone is entering. No room also because of those posts for someone to slide outside the glass wall.
The story that I heard was that this type of system had been planned for years but cabbie groups had lobbied city hall to stall it.
Ahh yes the people mover. Happly shuttling Redwings fans to and from the parking lots for many years...
I don't have any linkage for you, but I guess I could walk outside and take some pictures. A local hospital is footing the bill for an approximately 3 mile monorail line in downtown Indianapolis to connect Methodist Hospital with the IUPUI Campus and all the hospitals around it.
Clarian Health, who owns most of these hospitals is foot the 34 million dollar bill for this, and the city will get monthly payments from them for taking land away I guess. I just have to find out if I can catch a ride to class on the thing, or if it will be limited to medical personel only.
What?
Why can't you get it right?
However, the next expansion (which will be completed in a few years, IIRC) is a link between Denver and a large suburb to the south. A benefit to commuters, but also greatly welcomed by shoppers.
Also the proposed monorail is meant to connect Denver with the ski resorts-- it isn't meant to be a "downtown monorail" as the article implies.
Then don't mod down simpsons refs in the comments. Moderators = fucking idiots, and getting worse. No wonder I find myself not going to slashdot nearly as much anymore....
Anyone been to Mammoth (Calif. Ski resort in the Sierra Nevada). They built a monorail a while back to link their lodges (I mean, the place is called Mammoth). First year, lots of breakdowns. Nope, the train never comes. Now it's just a rust bucket. OK. Now lets sing the Simpsons refrain (one more time!).
A beginners' guide to Portland, OR?
What is it with geeks and monorails anyway?
And the Simpsons song just isn't funny anymore.
-- I have a private email server in my basement.
It seems that the city of LV has had designs on extending the MGM Grand monorail into something the whole Strip can use for some time (couple years?). More information can be found in PDF at http://www.rtc.co.clark.nv.us/rtc/monorail/DEISdoc ument.htm
As for the comment about Seattle's monorail; they've had one since 1962, built for the Century 21 World's Fair. It was the first full-scale ALWEG monorail in the States. In fact, Seattle is the only place with original ALWEG built monorails still running. This year has had a lot of advancements towards getting Seattle's bigger. Check out http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/News.html for bits of news (worldwide, but several entries about Seattle).
We have a monorail system in miami, while it isnt trashy like a subway its still too much damn walking. Especially when its so hot outside, who wants to walk? I guess the same applies to Vegas for most of the year. But perhaps because its a tourist destination people will be more prone to walk and "see the sights"? Whatever happens i want my hydrogen powered car, screw public transportation.
That will never work in Vegas. Have you seen the crowds on the strip?. You need that monorail to be able to pick up large numbers of people. big style public transportation is exactly what is called for.
Finally, someone with a bit of a brain in the transport area.
Building new roads to combat congestion is like buying a bigger belt to combat obesity.
i was wondering how that name was familiar - now i remember the nyc subway trains are built by them.
By the way the aerospace companies probably wont turn to this kind of work, because cities cannot afford the fantastic overpayments that the fed govt gives them. they actually have to show a working model in return for their fees which may be a bit dissapointing for companies that are used to making missile defense systems.
Frankly this sounds more like a Shelbyville idea. -- TaCo showing more proof he never reads the articles he posts! if ya read the article you'll notice that people can walk the strip in vegas faster then they can drive it sometimes and the city is in desperate need of more mass transit and its being done in style... yeah really like shelbyville... idiot...
use old trolleys? Not only could they be treated as another thing for tourists to do, it wouldn't be as full blown as what most cities are doing for light rail. 80-100 years ago, lots of cities had electric trolley's, so the systems can't be that exotic of a problem to solve.
and i miss news radio as well. sigh ...
http://monorails.org/tMspages/Niles.html
Move faster
I don't mind the tourism so much anymore, but our gridlock isn't cause by that. Its caused by our new residents (Especially those from CA in my opinion). I like the small town that Vegas used to be, i wish everyone would just go back to where they came from. The job market isn't that great outside of casino industry. Most people move her cause of the low taxes and lack of earth quakes. New residents piss me off. Just leave, that will fix our gridlock.
perl -e s++=END;++y(;-P)}s?C++=;
http://www.transrapid.de/en/information/his_txt.ht ml
nice to see progress does happen from time to time.
All the worlds countries should get into this technology a little more often imho, i'm tired of paying excessive rates for risky airline travel.
A fact compounded by the fact that air travel is one of the few industries state side that does not pay a fuel tax.
In the lovely rail friendly lands of Europe on can have a beer and a smoke and travel at high speed. Just one of the reasons I hope to live in Europe in the near future.
Imagine a state side excise tax funded maglev rail expansion program...
Cheers,
B&O Rail Kiddie
5th time this song has been posted, and it keeps getting funnier! Keep it up, you wonderful Jesters of Slashdot!
Also, from the article: The first four miles of the rail project are being funded entirely with private money raised through tax-free bonds.
And who do they expect to eventually pay off those bonds, the tooth fairy? Sounds like the whole thing is publicly funded to me...
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
i think monorails are cheaper than raised rail, but raised rail allows for higher speeds and efficiency.
I believe Las Vegas is using junked Mark IV monorails that Disney World used back in the day. Remember the scene in that episode where the logo peels off and underneath it says "1964 World's Fair?" Yeah...
I haven't seen any programs that are even half as consistently funny.
For an excessive analysis of the series;
http://newsradioart.tripod.com/
Bless you Phil Hartman.
Cheaper because, at least around here, they're massively subsidized. I'm one of those who wished public transportation was viable, but it simply isn't for a lot of people. I far too often need to go somewhere when nothing's running but taxis (which are hideously expensive here). I need some way of bringing $200 of groceries home, which isn't going to happen on any public conveyance I've seen. There are also issues of efficiency. I have a tightly packed day already. I don't have the time to wait around or walk from the nearest stop. Given that, having a car is necessary for me. Having already incurred the expense, it's always cheaper and more convenient, for any given trip, to use it.
Public transportation will only be successful for people like me when it's on demand between any two points I choose, can carry lots of stuff when I need it, lots of people when I need it, and *still* be cheaper than owning a car. Good luck.
My first response was Yes! As somebody who goes to Las Vegas several times a year, and cringes while sitting in cabs as the meter keeps running at stoplights, I was happy to see finally a nice transit system that stays out of the way of traffic.
Then I saw the route map.
1/2 the strip is not accessed by it. It starts at the MGM grand. And, most problematic, it does'nt go to the airport.
If I was designing this, it would run up the strip to the Sahara, turn right to the convention center, then head north to downtown.
I can't help to think that those cab drivers I hate so much had something to do with this assinine design.
The Internet is generally stupid
The airport, casinos, and some of the major hotels would be obvious nodes for the rail network. For those fixated on increasing economic growth through 'security' measures, some of the airlines could offer check-in at some of the more prestigious hotels or conference centers. This would be an obvious attraction for tourists and would allow the airlines extra time to scan the bags and back up their 'profiling' with hard data.
In Chicago, many rails came years before many of the buildings. I think there the rail companies did it the other way around and sold air rights to put buildings over the tracks. Monorail's a good option when you don't have the budget to bore tunnels or buy up surface real estate.
What's the geology like there? Maybe they could hire Norwegians to bore tunnels. ;)
(Subway / tube / underground sure, but how about "Casino Moria"?)
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Maybe pedestrian/auto traffic wouldn't be so bad if Las Vegas (aka the strip) was designed to allow people to easily move from one point to another. Sometimes if you wanna cross the street, you have to go in one casino cross over a walkway into another Casino and then exit. Also, the walkways tend to suck you towards the main casino entrance so instead of walking in a straight line you have to wiggle around a lot. Some of the outdoor shows (like Treasure Island, Bellagio Fountains maybe) are placed in such a way that they completely cut off all flow of pedestrian traffic. A few people stop to watch and then everyone gets jammed up. It's sometimes faster to cut through the Casino. My point is the Strip is designed to pull people into Casinos, not to help people get around. Point and case, the monorail actually appears to avoid most of the strip. The only strip stops shown on the map are around the Bellagio and MGM (owned by the same group right?).
That monorail could be anywhere... even... Detroit.
And why is this bad? If anything, we need this in the People's Republic of Kalifornia, we fed+state tax is almost 40% for the middle class. If almost all of the public transit systems need subsidies from the government, how do you suppose it'll sustain itself? Public transport system should have fares set to a value so that it can sustain the system, not require subsidies like they do now. If people riding them see that the REAL cost of using mass transit, they may think more about what OTHER alternatives there are, such as car pooling, bike riding, a highly efficient scooter, etc. I read about all this stuff of dis-incentives to use cars, ie, HOV lanes, take a lane for light rail, etc, but who are YOU to determine that mass transit is the best, or make the city's transport system unfairly biased to mass transit? I see this problem especially bad in San Francisco in particular, where they refuse to build more parking, but people still drive their cars. If the government was really "for the people", they would build more parking. I'm not against mass transit at all, but it needs to be balanced with the needs of drivers as well, and not treat them second class to people who ride transit. Both needs to be treated as equals.
i spent over 10 years of my life living in Vegas...
i must say that most towns wouldnt be well suited to this type of project, there are just too many directions people travel in the typical city. But Las Vegas is very different, there is the "strip", almost all big casinos sit right on this street (Las Vegas Blvd). The traffic on this street is absolutely ridiculous, and it can take quite a while to get from one end of the strip to the other.
This kind of project would probably be far less economical in the average town where traffic heads in many different directions, but Las Vegas is especially well suited for this project. I would guess that over 50% of the traffic in the town heads up and down a very specific corridor and that not only is this feasible in Vegas, it is one of the few places it could be a preffered solution
What a bunch of prudes! I hope they have a bar on the train so I don't have to sneak a flask onboard.
A lot of Americans go abroad on vacation and get blown away by how well mass transit works. Let me tell you why that is not a good way to evaluate it.
A typical European major city is built around a more or less ancient center, where all roads and transit system originate, with important extensions to the airport and rail stations. As I hope you can see, the mass transit system is working at it's very best for the typical travel patterns of a tourist, going between the main transit centers and all the tourist attractions in the center.
Now, if you were to live in a regular home and commute to a regular job in that same city, things would be very different. You'd be going from one suburb to another, probably having to change train or bus at the center. It would take at least twice as long as going by car, quite likely more. You could and would probably make arrangements so you lived where mass transit was favorable for your commute, but whenever you were going to some friend or some other random place, you'd have quite a logistical task on your hands.
And that's in a city that's always had it's transportation system built for mass transit. In an american city, built from the ground up for cars, it would work quite a bit worse.
I think I know since I moved to San Francisco from Stockholm 7 years ago. And while Stockholm has a quite decent mass transit system, and SF traffic is painfully congested, going by car here just can't compare to going by mass transit there. It's one of my bigger reasons for not moving back.
Every time a topic comes along that involves monorails, we have to put up with two things...the obligatory Simpsons quotes and now the links to the website from the guy who put one inhis backyard! I'll tell you, seeing the lyrics to Lyle Lanley and Co. is wearing just a little bit thin.
Seriously, though, I'd be interesting to know why it is that everybody in the States automatically thinks of monorails whenever non-bus public transit is discussed. Could it be that you're all becoming just a little bit too Disnified? I'm surprised there is little mention of the old San Fransisco cablecars. Maybe you'd prefer something along the lines of Alfred Ely Beach's pneumatic subway!
If you make the trip over to Europe, you will see that just about every town or city has some sort of public transit involving surface light rail, usually trams/streetcars. Every one of these systems is efficient and well run. I see no reason why the same cannot be done over here. If it's a question of space, remember that all of these European towns are strapped for any space, and efforts are made to preserve as much green space or living space as possible. Still they install the tramways. They go down the centre of multi-lane boulevards, down disused railways, purpose built elevated track, pedestrian malls, and, because they can be built to accommodate regular tired vehicles--cars, no pun intended--straight down any city streets. In short, a tram can be built to go just about anywhere that efficient public transit is needed. It's also handy that nobody would need to re-invent the wheel, as excellent, KISS technology exists. For those concerned about costs and subsidies, keep in mind that places like Zagreb and Sarajevo, both capitals of war-torn countries, don't exactly have much money to throw around, but rebuilding their own tram lines has been a priority. For the NIMBY types, these systems are quiet and often quite picturesque, especially compared to buses. (Postcards of trams are everywhere! Besides a red London Double Decker, ever see a picture postcard featuring a diesel bus?)
North America was filled with streetcar systems right up to the '50's. Ottawa, for instance, had an excellent streetcar system that ran all over what was then the city. It was even powered by its own hydroelectric power dam on the Ottawa River! Killing it off is now considered one of the stupidest things that City Hall ever did! Toronto still has much of theirs, and has been expanding it in recent years. There are certainly no plans to build any more lines like the crappy Scarborough RT line, a monorail, that hasn't been the best of systems.
Have all the plans and designs for these practical and efficient systems been thrown out in favour of all these amusement park monorail rides? If monorails as public transit are so efficient, so quiet, so inexpensive and so simple, I fail to see why they aren't all over Europe, where space saving and efficiency is all-important.
*****
Ergh, the Sydney monorail system, *shudder*.. It was built back in '88 i think for the centenary celebrations, and to "alleviate" Sydney's traffic. Unfortunatly the second part was a joke, each carriage fits about 10 people and there are only 4 carriages per train! (That LosVegas one apparently will have 600 per train!)
:)
:)
Unbelievable, but of course it's just another ridiculous tourist attraction, as most of the stops are just tourist stops anyway..
Add that to our half city covered subway, 1/4 city light rail, and you get the idea of how crazy the city planners are here!
The trend today is tunnels, they are building at least two long road tunnels under the city in addition to an existing two already operational tunnels! What next I wonder?
What makes you think that there weren't any more hijackings in progress? Didn't you notice that there were lots of arrests? They didn't arrest any of the guys who crashed planes, they were all dead. They got the others.
Remember, these guys were all used to the idea of one country = one time zone? Too stupid? If tiny details can screw NASA, don't expect better from suicidal fools.
Remember, all the flights were grounded, and plenty of men of middle-eastern descent with box cutters were arrested.
Trans-continental flights take off from both coasts, you know. The others are not being loudly publicized because it wouldn't help disneyland any if people knew that it was one of the prevented targets. As it was, plenty of people stayed home anyway.
Of course, I could be wrong.
Posting anonymously, because I'm not stupid.
A moment's thought about the forces involved will also reveal that a single-rail design is much more difficult to get right. In fact, every "monorail" system I've ever seen has a very wide track, and the trains have wheels on both sides. They are really very narrow-gauge dual-rail systems in which the two rails are connected by a web of excess material that contributes a lot of weight and very little structural integrity.
So why are we so enamored of monorail? Simple: in the 1950's, Walt Disney was looking for a way to make part of his park "futuristic". He was so successful that the entire country has bought into the idea that monorails are clever technology. Not.
As a Vegas ride, this project makes perfect sense. For any other city, we should stick with promoting above- or below-grade transportation systems, and let the engineers decide on the rail count.
They're cheap to build (More so than light rail systems and subways which tend to displace businesses and homes. That means a government or organization ends up paying tons of money to pay for land, and lawsuits [folks tend to dislike being displaced]), they're elevated so nothing restricts them (A Bus system ALWAYS have to deal with traffic). Also, they can take a good licking from earthquakes.
Don't take my word for it check out this URL: http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/Why.html
I hope this helps.
The only technological solution I can see is remote monitoring combined with an override system that could let a security guard send any capsule straight to the police station. But constant monitoring of every capsule is pretty expensive.
the monorail rides on concrete with rubber wheels. While the rail rides on steel rails with steel wheels. Both concepts have tradeoffs.
Well, then let's get rid of the personal automobile immediately! After all, the personal automobile is even more dangerous. In addition to entering it often in dimly lit parking lots, unlike PRT, personal automobiles are not monitored by cameras, can't be tracked by GPS, and can be commandeered by criminals into the most remote locations. Personal automobiles are obviously highly dangerous! Abolish them immediately!
As everyone has pointed out, this is strictly a tourist's monorail. It will go from the MGM Grand, to Bally's/Paris, then to the LV Convention Center, then the Sahara, and then a straight shot to downtown.
This monorail will not help many, if any of the locals, unless they work at one of the hotels serviced on the route; or like myself, work downtown and are tired of the hour commute from the southern end of town in. I'd LOVE to park my car at the MGM, take the monorail to work, and then run a block to my ISP job. Saves me gas and money.
I believe they had kicked around the idea of extending the southern end to the airport, but that apperently has bitten the dust. That alone would justify a $5 fee to and from IMHO. My friends were stuck for a ride to the Riviera hotel from the airport (I was at work, and unable to help), and they were stuck with a $30 fare from taking a taxi to the hotel.
What the Las Vegas valley needs overall is a good solid light rail system. The extreme south and Northwest ends are exploding in growth, pure suburban sprawl. The Northern end will begin it's own growth in probably a few more years after the BLM turns over a couple thousand acres or so to a private developer (I think Hughes Corp.), for yet another master-planned community.
The light rail would also be a godsend for the east area of town, which has no easy access to either major arterials US-93/95 or I-15. Plans are in the works for some sort of "I-415" that would connect the east side of town, but I'm honestly not holding my breath.
Also, the central areas of the valley are becoming overcrowded, both in traffic and residents. Maryland Parkway is a perfect example. For those who aren't residents, Maryland is one of the major North/South roads in town, staying between 2 and 3 lanes almost it's entire length. Driving along this road takes you past UNLV, a major mall, a hospital, and honestly one of the bigger economic blocks in town. This road is almost always crowded, and is a nightmare at times during rush hour. If even a simple light rail was setup to run the length of Maryland, with turnarounds at either end, I think we'd see a marked decrease in traffic. Couple these with light rail on other major roads, connect them with some transit depots, we may have ourselves a solution!
I believe it was stated once that the transportation infastrucure in the valley is behind the times by about 10 years. It's the horrible, horrible truth, and it's never going to get any better unless NDOT, Clark County, and the 3 major townships (Henderson, Las Vegas, North Las Vegas), get together and work out a massive overhaul plan.
Place your bets. =)
Call on God, but row AWAY from the rocks!
Light rail may seem good, but after reading this URL: http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/MonoVs.html I'm sure you would have a different opinion
Hrm. All valid points. I guess what I should say is I just want ANY sort of decent train-esque transit system. Buses are too slow and suffer the same problems as other automobiles.
Call on God, but row AWAY from the rocks!
[yes this is relevant!]
Once there was a guy who applied for the job painting lines on the road (by hand).
The first day he did great, painting 10 miles. The supervisor was very impressed.
The second day, he just managed 5 miles, and looked a bit flustered at the end of the day. The supervisor said, "well, that's not as good as yesterday, but still it's not bad".
The third day, he only did 1 mile, and came back late sweating and completely exhausted. The supervisor said "Why have you only done 1 mile; you started off great two days ago".
The guy says "Yeah boss, I try hard, but each day the paint pot gets further and further away!"
Moral of the story: live on a route which connects with your job.
Ok , its far more expensive but Vegas is hardly a city in a slump plus if you're going to transport
people from the airport into the centre you need a real transport system , not a mickey mouse toy
such as a monorail. Also subways can go anywhere (substrata difficulties aside) whereas trams,
light rail and monorails have to follow the current road layout.
I have to disagree. London has the Tube. It has roads. You travel across london WAY quicker by tube than by car. The average road speed in london has been the exact same since 1900 at just below 9mph. The only exception to this is travel during the day (i.e. not rush) round the M25 (suburb to suburb) when you can probably keep up with the tube / trains.
And Londons system STINKS - but its still faster than by car in 90% of journeys. Doesn;t stop people using the car though - its not like you can turn up at work and have everyone check out your nice new rail pass "looook - its got GPS!!!! you want to shag me now don't you hot PA"
Your also a shitload less likely to be killed on the monorail than by car!
Speaking of loop, when's Chicago going to upgrade? They already have a good network of buses and trains. Then next step is to modernize equipment.
Las Vegas has over 300,000 hotel rooms, almost all of which are full on any given weekend. Over 15 MILLION people come to Las Vegas to visit every year. By the way, the average Las Vegas visitor spends over $950 while they are there.
Tens of thousands, hah.
Cool! Amazing Toys.
Por favor mantengase alejado de las puertas. =)
I think the most 37334 h3ck3r will be the one that gets the plans changed to include an Alexis Park/Hard Rock Cafe stop. Maybe that will be part of Capture the Flag this year? :)
There are plenty of "real" high-capacity monorails, especially in Japan: Tokyo, Chiba, Tama, Osaka and Kitakyushu are the biggies, with more under construction even right now (eg. a new system in Naha, Okinawa). Malaysia is also investing heavily in monorails. See monorails.org for details.
Cheers,
-j.
Here in Houston, we have surpassed LA as the worst traffic in the country and I believe it. You can't go anywhere in this town without it taking an hour.
However, we are building a light-rail system. The bad news is Lee Brown our idiot mayor big pushed had it go from downtown to the Astrodome. This is nowhere near a major traffic artery going into downtown and serves only one purpose: get the 2012 Olympics to Houston.
So instead of running this thing down the Katy Freeway/I-10 (most heavily congested highway in the country) we get to goto downtown from proposed "Olympic Village" into downtown. In addition, the Harris County Toll Authority is putting in more lanes into the Katy Freeway which some will be toll, YUCK! As many of the posters have said the planners of these things aren't the people that would use it the most. Its all politics and not solving the serious traffic problem.
At it was last year, I doubt they've upped it that much. Just a generic shuttle that went to every hotel - of course when I went my hotel was the last of the trip so it was like a 20 min ride even though it was but a few miles walk. Those are the breaks.
Does anyone else think that article is written like one of those "Everyone hates the Mayor" newspaper articles in Sim City? :-)
"Betty Stevens says it took her over 8 hours to get to work today! She might as well not work at all!"
Just a stupid observation.
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
They've been working on this thing since at least 98 or 99 (can't remember which, everything before now has merged together).
When I go it's for the Consumer Electronics Show or I'm passing through on the way to AZ. I've received the junk from Wynn and others in the mail inviting me to join high roller clubs and get perks, etc, but for my money I'd rather be on a beach in Costa Rica, sipping a maragarita and reading the latest Terry Pratchett novel.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
MARTA is a similar system that has been used in Atlanta .... doesn't quite pay for itself, but nice nonetheless.
It is the maps. All the maps are so out of proportion, it is easy to believe that you are just a hop skip and a jump away from something.
Not to mention that the Hotels are a block long themselves. You see on a map a couple of hotels, you click off one block in your head. The reality is that that is two full city blocks at least.
Everything is huge there, especially your taxi budget.
There are two or three rates, depending on where your hotel is.
I know there is at least two, one for the strip, and one for downtown.
I think there is also a middle rate for the few hotels "just off" the strip.
Take my pen knife, my good man!
There is a tram os some sort running between the Luxor and the Excalibur.
There is also a tram of some sort running from the MGM to Bally's maybe. I don't remember, cause I got off the tram, turned around and went back to the MGM, as I was late for meeting a friend.
blah
http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/Skytrain/index.shtm l
Unfortuneatly, they are having money problems because the price is too high for the average thai. It does work remarkably well, but doesn't have enough track to make it worthwhile to everyone(doesn't go to the airport for example).
Bring back the old version of slashdot.
Uh, Miami has a monorail system. No one ever uses it. It was a catastrophic failure.
You can't retrofit a city that's evolved around the automobile for decades and decades with a monorail. Homes and business are just too spread out.
Tell the millions of people who use the biggest mass transit system in the world for their daily commute to work here in New York that. I've lived in NYC for years and never needed to own a car and taxis are plentiful when you do need one. Mass transit is for everybody.
Cheaper because, at least around here, they're massively subsidized.
So is your car. What, did you think roads were free?
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
The main reasons that putting in mass transit in US cities is harder is (1) that the population density is much smaller and (2) traffic patterns aren't nearly as uniform.
(1) is because everyone has a car, and their "active range" is much bigger. I was pretty happy going by bike and mass transit in Stockholm. But if my average trip there was 5 km it's perhaps 15km here. I get there equally fast. It seems everyone likes to live 30-60 minutes from their work, that means that Americans in general live much more spread out.
Anyway, regardless of why, the population density difference is a fact. And this is a problem for mass transit since with 1/3 the population density, you'd need 9 times as much mass transit, at 9 times the cost to serve the same population. That's a lot of empty busses and trains.
(2) US cities don't have much of a center, especially the younger ones. LA, Dallas & Phoenix are mostly huge spread out built areas with little distinction. Trips people make tend to be from fairly random points A to equally random points B.
In short, mass transit is hard in these cities because there is little mass movement. All travel is individual. There are no huge streams of movements that a mass transit system could serve really well.
European cities have grown and developed over centuries together with their transportation systems. Those systems serve their needs, and the habits of their population have been formed by the available services.
Older US cities like New York, Boston and Chicago have evolved in a more European way, and do have pretty respectable and well used mass transit systems.
I'm sure you're right about transportation in London. But consider why that is so. And it sure doesn't make me want to move to London!
Personally, I found that a second car wasn't worth the expense, but the first one was a still a necessity.
My own commute is by bus/rail and only takes 20 minutes longer than driving. The fares add up to about the same as parking at my office. Also, without this down time, I'd have to cancel my dead-tree-and-black-goop-news-delivery-medium AND I'd be pretty stressed-out.
Mass transit works for many people, but NOT all the time.
Surprised no one has mentioned Newark Airport and it's a stunning monorail system. 'Stunning' because I am always amazed that I manage to get off it alive. I just hope L-V gets a better setup than EWR.
Why are people still focused on mass transit when we have the technology for individual cars on the same overhead rails?
Individual monorail cars:
-cheaper to build (less weight of the cars on the rails means less structural support needed)
-cheaper to run (no need to pay engineers to sit in the first car and you never run a car without passengers.)
-multiple destinations available. Any car can go to any stop in the entire line without switching trains or waiting at other stops.
-never need to worry if a train is available. Cars run whenever you get to the nearest stop.
Mass Transit:
-must support an entire train with 400 passengers.
-must run regular trains, even when few passengers are riding it. The HUGE disadvantage to this is that someone has to decide when to run trains. Running all the time wastes money. This means that lack of supply cuts demand, and extra supply may or may not increase demand. Also requires paying conductors and engineers to run the train.
-Trains stop at each stop, wasting everyone's time. If a passenger wants to go to a stop on another line or a stop not available on an express train, he must get off that train at some point to switch. (out by me, going between two particular stops on ONE line requires getting off one train, waiting 10 minutes, and getting on the next.)
-passengers have to worry about making the TRAINS schedule. If you miss the train, you have to wait for the next or find alternative transportation. Not as much of an issue if the monorail is always running, but even in Chicago, the Elevated trains (The El) doesn't run all the time.
The article also doesn't mention the already existing monorail between the MGM hotel and the Flamingo Hilton(lower part of the map). Right now its free(but you have to walk past the all of the boutiques and gaming areas to get to it).
s
Skip ------ See the latest from http://www.anArchyFortWorth.com
Judging by the route and proximity to well travelled areas/buildings, the monorail in Las Vegas could actually be successful.
Now, for that to happen they need to look at the Skyway project in Jacksonville (also by bombardier) and do EVERYTHING differently. Jax's monorail is too slow, short, and inconvenient. It also doesn't connect the stadium/arena areas to downtown. If they had that connection, it theoretically could be valuable.
Just my opinion.
Planetes
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promo Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitl
I've always wondered why mass transit systems weren't heterogeneous. according to their maps, the monorail doesnt connect to either the airport or the college (UNLV). these would be the first two places to logically connect to a mass transit system. *sigh*
Most things worth doing are worth doing twice. -- me I think or was that my boss' methodology?
Does NOBODY remember what happened in Ogdenville? North Haverbrook? Come on, people!!
------------------------------
This link was the LOTD on userfriendly.org yesterday.
Pretty incredible!
http://monorails.org/tMspages/Niles.html
Yeah but London is HUGE compared to Stockholm or San Francisco (7x7miles), so I am not sure it is a fair comparison.
You mean commuter passes don't get the local fillys all in a tizzy? Damn.
Who thinks that future extension part is a load of crap? A huge stretch of it covers nothing but elvis chapels and hotels rented by the hour, until you reach the freedmont experiece(old skool vegas, think the cowboy) and the bus station. Amazingly, there are no traffic problems in this area.
Yeah, I was at vegas a month ago, and it is coming along nicely. I wonder if the casino's intentionally make it a bitch to get down the strip during most of the day. I ended up walking most of the time, buses were comically terrible, and I'm too cheap for a cab.
I wonder why this story is being covered now?
As someone who regularly drives to Vegas from LA (for climbing, not gambling), I would much rather see a bullet train running from LA to Vegas. There's nothing like 200 miles of stop and go traffic in the middle of the Mojave desert (i.e., the middle of nowhere) on a Sunday evening to finish off a great weekend.
There's something special about taking a monorail to your favorite brothel.
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
I thought is was Vegas: Monorails v. Grimlock, from Transformers.
It would definately attract me to Vegas to see a 40ft metal dinosaur attacking a monorail with nowhere to go...are you listening Vegas? It's a golden idea!
ME GRIMLOCK NO LIKE ONE RAILED TRAINSET! ME GRIMLOCK SMASH TRAINSET!
Actually, Sound Transit, the multi-county organization with a board appointed by the state are the ones that are building the light rail.
Seattle has a separate project, the Elevated Transportation Company, which was created by city initiatives and a couple of lawsuits, and which last night held the Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) hearings for it's Phase I.
I understand the confusion. Sound Transit is building a 14 mile long light rail system for regional needs, while the City of Seattle's ETC is building a separate (but connected) 14 mile long monorail system for local needs paid by local Seattle taxes. And the mayor of Seattle is on the board of Sound Transit and supports both projects, while most Seattle citizens love the monorail but hate light rail.
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--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
My friends and I always imagine that if ever humans start to build domed cities, Las Vegas will be the first. I mean why not. The weather sucks and that's really the only drawback to Vegas (as long as you're not losing money). This "massive undertaking" just seems like the first step to the casinos working together to build a dome around their little empire, thus keeping its temporary citizens even more happy (good weather + fun = spend money).
Not even a monorail could save it.
Your last sentence is the flaw in your argument. Engineers dont decide on the rail count, the politicans do. That's why Seattle's regional transit agency, Sound Transit, decided on a light rail system. The only problem with that is that is that Seattle A) Has lots of hills and B) Has no unused railroad lines to commandeer
Actually, it's not Seattle's regional transit agency - Sound Transit is a three-county state appointed agency, and Seattle has very little say in what it does or what taxes the state imposed on us for it.
Seattle's transit system is the ETC, part of the City of Seattle, not the multi-county Sound Transit regional transportation agency.
What may be confusing you is the busses in Seattle are run by King County, which includes the dark land where bill g resides, across Lake Washington in Bellevue, Redmond, and Issaquah, all places that are definitely not Seattle. You have to cross the world's largest floating bridges to get there.
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--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
Well.
.. This one actually does work. You give it where you're starting from and where you're going to and when you're supposed to be there or when you're going to leave. It spits out three or four possible routes to your destination complete with any/all switches and lead times invoved. Brilliant. e-application that's actually very useful?
Here in the socialist europe, mass transit is heavily subsidized and motorists are taxed until they squeak. Personally I ride a bike to work every day and take a bus during winter months. I moved into an apartment reasonably close to where I work.
I used to own a car as well as a motorcycle. Then, one day, I woke up and realized I'm shelling some 50% of my income-after-taxes into car tax, gas tax and insurance vat. So, out goes the car. I ain't buying one unless there's a major overhaul of the income tax structure, which won't happen. I was already trying to find a work in UK where the car tax is more reasonable but this spring was not a good time to look for work abroads.
I've been using public transport for about six years now and I can say it still does suck. The only nice exception is rail transport. Local rails, trams, metro.. The schedules gives you maximum wait time of about 10 minutes and the train is usually there when it was supposed to be.
One remarkable development in this area is the web transport guide (http://pathfinder3.meridian.fi/ytv/eng/)
Sheesh, this guy needs a job.
http://monorails.org/tMspages/Niles.html
The average cost to build a light rail or monorail project is over $5000 per individual passenger
on a 5 year basis. It would be better to buy each person a car.
Of course, where the monorail is used to attract tourists, it can be subsidized by room taxes
and thus eliminate the burden to local taxpayers. Unfortunately, all Federal taxpayers
are still required to pay for these (generally) useless boondogles.
With a number of notable exceptions, mass transit is far more costly and less efficient than provate
passenger vehicles, despite claims to the contrary by the people who get paid to plan and build these projects.
Las Vegas already HAS a monorail system. It goes between the MGM Grand up and down the strip. It connects about 3 or 4 hotels, and is being expanded.
It's been running for years, and is really the best way to get around, at least for the few hotels it connects. Sometimes, even the sidewalks are so crowded, it's difficult just to walk the strip.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Oh yeah? Maybe we should send Colin Ferguson over there. :-/
Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
I have to disagree as well. I lived in Mexico City for a year and, being a US American, even drove my '73 LandCruiser there. As an average American, I drove to work for a while, but the traffic there is unbelievable (people in Seattle think they have bad traffic... Hah!).
I then started taking a pesero the mile or so to the subway station, then the subway to near work. It was faster, easier and way cheaper (I think the subway was like 8-12 cents US per ride when I lived there). Once I learned the system, I could get anywhere (not tourist locations), bars, restaurants, whatever in no time flat. If your subway stop is too far from your destination to walk, hop in a cab for a short ride or jump on a pesero.
The subway system in Mexico City is not designed to shuttle tourists around, but it is designed to move millions of people close to where they need to be. The surface transportation takes up the slack.
I have had that damn monorail song stuck in my head all day now... thanks
I'm afraid I'm missing your point. The claim is that using a bus is cheaper than using a car. Both do require roads, correct? Given that using *either* necessitates roads, they (the roads) are out of the picture. It costs more to move someone around in a bus than a car. It's limiting. Try carrying 20 bags of groceries in a bus. Try dealing with that server crash at the office at 3:30 am after buses stop running. Public transportation simply doesn't meet my needs at this point in life. Perhaps it will later, but not now.
I was travelling in Rome and someone in our party was pickpocketed.. and the guy literally took of down the subway tunnel with the wallet.
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Actually, there's another one, that runs between Treasure Island and the Mirage.
Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
Mass transit sucks for commuting unless you live RIGHT on the line, though. If you have to take two things (like bus+monorail) it's so much faster to drive... I lived in SF and I had to take a bus, a train, and another bus to get to my office, or walk at least a mile for each bus I didn't take. This will have even less coverage, so be even worse... I can't imagine how it would be all that useful.
This is a city. The city is Seattle. It's not the Dark Lord's Land Across The Water (aka Redmond or Bellevue or whatever).
It has density, people, and we are the nation's Number One user of bicycles and walking to get to work.
Wake up and smell the monorail. It's for walkers, it's for bicyclists, it's for Segway users.
And if you want, you can hop on a bus to the nearest station.
It's not for you suburbanites with cars. In fact, we don't want you and your polluting cars - why don't you stop whining about taxes and realize that we in Seattle and other high-density cities subsidize your fascination with SUVs and roads that we pay for.
[source - stats on who pays for Washington State's roads - King County pays out $900 million per year and gets $600 million; Seattle pays for most of King County's roads]
Give me monorail or give me bungee cords!
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--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
It costs less to move people around in a bus than in a car. My point is that both forms of transportation are subsidized, so there's not much point in pointing it out.
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
that's lame. the amusement park down by lancaster -- including AMISH themed attractions -- has had a monorail for decades. they need to get maglev or something for it to be impressive.
I forgot about the most obvious one! The one that goes between Excalibur, Luxor, and Mandalay Bay! Jeez, that was stupid... But irregardless, oen to bind them all will be really, really good.
Your point is incorrect. Cars aren't subsidized. Roads, which *both* cars and buses require, are paid for with tax dollars, which isn't quite the same thing. As a car owner, I get to pay about $400 a year in vehicle taxes alone, not including sales and income taxes which go into the general fund, to subsidize those roads for the public transportation riders, who pay a discount on the cost of moving the bus around. If bus riders paid the actual cost of moving around in a bus, there wouldn't be even the few there are now.
Your tubby friend loves the cock
This is the first message in a series of coaching messages which will help you to become a better person. Notice there is no "hopefully" in this sentence, as I'm sure I will have success. Please relax, read and absorb the following message:
In the quote above, you have tried to extinguish the posting desire of a certain person. Such action is very nasty, and if you behave like that it might depict you as a bad person, and you don't want that, do you? You will never get a wife this way.
I understand that certain posters might annoy you, but it's best to keep the anger to yourself. In exterme cases, you may shout from the window - it helps to reduce your pain.
Thank you for reading this message.
Slashdot community, please notice: I am looking for a girlfriend.
Nave H. Weiss