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CIA Warns China Might Be Planning Cyber Attack
malibucreek writes "The Los Angeles Times is reporting that the CIA is warning of possible cyber-terrorism against U.S. and Taiwanese computer systems by the Chinese Army. Or, China could just launch a massive denial-of-service attack by sending billions of "GET HERBAL VIAGRA" e-mails from the .cn TLD." The article has a reasonable amount of information
and is probably worth a read if you're curious about what could be a real big
deal in the future.
China has one of the most active intelligence operations of any country in the world -- check http://www.afio.com/sections/book_reviews/reviews/ chinese_intel_ops.html -- it's a great book with lots of good info
How do you think people in the US would respond to a national firewall to protect from outside attacks? Would people view it has a means to control the internet content? Or a valid and necessary element in our nation?
My personal choice would be to have a national firewall, even though it could be used against us, or limit our privacy. But at least we could completely shut off our internet access if another country decided to attach us.
Are they somehow going to stop all the other southeast Asian, African, and South American countries from spamming while they do this? If so, it might actually lighten our load. If not...I fail to see anything unusual here
What is your Slash Rating?
That American Hackers = #1! Go America! If Americans can hack alien spaceships with Mac laptops, then China should be no threat at all!
China could just launch a massive denial-of-service attack by sending billions of "GET HERBAL VIAGRA" e-mails from the .cn TLD."
.cn TLD (as well as pretty much any other domain known to originate from China), who is the massive DDoS going to affect?
Since many mail administrators have simply blocked anything coming from the
I think for this to be effective, not only would Chinese administrators have to smarten up and close off their mail servers, but they would have to prove it to the rest of the world... that could take years.
If China invaded Tiawan, where would we get our VIA SIS etc AMD mobo's from???? That would be a huge disruption in PC supplies, and, to the vendors delight, higher prices, thicker margins.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Suddenly, Bill Gates announces that he can patch all Microsoft products the government is using against viruses and security holes as a gesture of good faith?
Tim
Great! Now we can be prepared!
:)
sheesh
Also, there is evidence that certain Germans may covet Krakow. Be on the alert.
One if by land, two if by sea!
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
months accross the top, days on the side...
$10 a square, the bet - when will china simply be cut off the internet and all chinese traffic blocked by all of the major routers?
my guess is sooner than later. china already blocks the internet from itself, maybe its time for us to do if for them... although that herbal viagra really did work!!
MARIJUANA, SHROOMS, X: ONLINE?! - E
[BLOCKQUOTE]"The People's Liberation Army does not yet have the capability to carry out its intended goal of disrupting Taiwanese military and civilian infrastructures or U.S. military logistics using computer virus attacks," said the CIA's report, which was included in a broader national security assessment that authorities distributed to intelligence officials. [/BLOCKQUOTE] What, they don't have a text editor and a book Visual Basic? Could it be that Microsoft's monopolistic pricing schemes has saved democracy?
"Don't mind me cutting myself on Occam's Razor"
Lately I've been having thoughts regarding the internet as a whole. General nostalgia about times when the internet was free, and good, and exciting.
:[
I worry that the Internet is doomed to irrevicably loose what made it so good (for me). Popup ads, spam, trolls, lamers in the doom-like of the season, and the concept of 'cyberwar' fill me with despair over how misguided most of humanity is. I fear that what is probably the best invention of my lifetime will be tarnished by greed, selfishness, and stupidity.
Guess this is how Environmentalists feel...
There is no "cyber-attack" that doesn't currently plauge us already. Unless the chinese are going to bomb our routers (with explosives), I think we can deal with it.
Confidential?
We are in trouble if the best way we know to keep things confidential is to give them to a major newspaper.
this is the dumbest thing i have heard all day. if it is china's plan to invade taiwan and hack the us to keep thier military response time weakened, the us would simply find another method of deploying troops to taiwan that does not involve the internet. the whole thing stinks of media evil hacker (or communist) hype to me.
the CIA want to keep there jobs and they want more funds so they come up with warning after warning after warning. How come the US has so many enemies all of a sudden?
I think the more important question is will this massive DOS attack or encouraged hacking of American computers count in President Bush's War on Terrorism? While the US can engage in a relativly small conflict in Afghanistan, I doubt the US military could control the scale as well in an attack on China. I envision that it would instead have to be a full blown knock-down-drag-out war. I'm not quite sure if American citizens are up for that. Especially in response to some Internet sites/services being unavailable. If they attack military machines, Pres. Bush is going to be hoppin' mad!
Also, I'd be interested in knowing exactly how China has chosen the machines that they will be attacking. Perhaps they should not sting the sleeping bear.
-Runz
Now why would the CIA warn China about an attack that they are planning? What is this world coming to?
Great... cyberwar, massive DoS, blah... I keep in touch with people over the internet in China, and I will NOT be blocking them at my level, but what happens if the US mandates all chinese traffic be blocked? Then what do I do?
:)
I guess I should colocate my box in Canada
Things like this destroy what's so great about the internet to me.
I have a hard time beliving this. Why would China want to do this? It sounds to me like the CIA is just looking for a new enemy for another cold war, since this shit in the middle east is raping up and americans arn't buying that every Arab is a terorist they need a new boogy man. God, it's like our .gov has fallen backwards 15years to the hight of Reagnism.
Does this mean William Gibson is right and the future will be full of Chinese "Ice"?
""China is still an issue that worries Americans deeply, and sometimes the intelligence community gets a head of steam on these things and can go off on tangents that may not be substantiated," he said. " Why do I not feel worried?
anime+manga together at last.. in real time.
When I start getting e-mails from "l33t Gen Tz0" I'm gonna start freaking out!
News at 11.
Just food for thought, or maybe it's FUD for thought, the CIA could already be doing this to others. Don't expect them to own up if they are.
"We have nothing to fear, but fear itself" has been replaced by "be afraid, be very afraid", have a nice day.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
That should read "Real Big Deal".
Such discussion is a red herring to get more government funding as well as to push for even more laws - like we don't have enough already.
Never underestimate the extent the government will go...for example it's widely suspected the anthrax attacks last year was a government test gone awry; or perhaps more sinister, such as a way to get lots of extra funding and laws passed fast with little resistance - most everyone I've spoken with who has truly read the Patriot Act is appalled at the total disregard of the U.S. Constitution and basic human rights.
Bottom line is don't believe all you read - but then most here already know that...for the biggest threats to our security are from within...another reason the U.S. government should NOT develop mini-nukes (a misnomer to say the least!) for it's likely they will be used against us at some point...technology is a double-edged sword and thus we should not rely solely on it to solve our problems.
Ok, I really rambled on here, but anyways one must be careful what they believe...for the U.S. propaganda machine is running full-tilt these days to stuff our minds full of garbage and lies...it's happened before and is happening now!
You can't even secure your mail servers against spammers. Now you want to antagonize people who are actually competent? Go ahead, make our day.
What do you think the networks will do when a nation's government proves to spew this kind of noise all over the world? China could get on everybody's hit list by doing something like that. In that regard, it seems somehow counterproductive.
I'm not saying it's impossible, a sufficiently short-sighted government (say, one that calls itself the "Peoples' Liberation Army" and expects people to believe it after mashing students with tanks) might attempt it.
But in light of the possible consequences, it seems somehow e-suicidal.
You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert until you read it in the original Klingon.
Just pull the plug on China. If they're going to use their network connection to the US to attack us, just cut them off. When's the last time you looked up a chinese website?
This article and this one and this one too, (Google cache).
I'm not supporting our Chinese friends if this article is true, but it would seem to me that whats good for the goose is good for the gander, no?
Meow meow meow meow, meow meow meow meow...
Giant Spam Attack: and we would notice it precisely how?
That's like threatening to pour a glass of water on someone's head, while they are taking a shower.
I already GET 15,000 different INCREASE YOUR MANHOOD and HELLO FUTURE MILLIONAIRE emails, like another 5000 from China are even going to make a dent.
-Styopa
Where can you get a regional list like this?
I've seen several references to blocking the entire IP space of China/Asia/whatever. I've searched, and so far have been unable to find where it is listed what IP ranges belong to what geographic areas. I'm sure this info if really easy to find when you know what keywords to search on, but so far I've had no luck. Where could I find the IP ranges of known spam-originating countries so that I can block messages from them myself?
Thanks!
Never ask a geek why, just nod your head and slowly back away. -Rob Malda
I rember something like this that was supposed to go down a while back. that turned out to be nothing but a couple websites downed. and some american retailation etc...
Im more concerned of the stupid nimda and codereds still floating around hitting my webserver wasting my bandwidth.
remember that little break in the optical cable out of China....hummmm could that have been some S.E.A.L.S. out on a pratice mission.
Gizmos Gagets For Ninjas
For those who didn't notice. I replaced china with slashdot and tiawan with microsoft. and bombing with slashdoting. My post was a joke people.
-THIS SPACE FOR RENT!
There's certainly been enough talk about just plain blocking all email coming in from Chinese domains thanks to spam issues. What about temporarily shutting direct network links to an entire country as a matter of national security? It seems to me, especially if attacks are impinging upon military networks, that the government could justify ordering ISPs to shut down certain connections. After all, once these "attacks" cross into American networks they are physically within the country, and that certainly falls under our military's jurisdiction.
Obviously, standard "attacker" procedures would include finding ways to hide your tracks by finding other routes. However, the snipping of links like that sends a strong diplomatic message that has serious non-tangible effects. For example, if multinational companies are unable to reliably maintain informational links with offices in China, they'll pick up and leave. China desperately doesn't want something like that to happen.
Just some food for thought.
Oh no, those whacky chinese people, stealing our mp3, pr0n movies, computer books et all, gotta look out for that terrorist threat, we don't want yahoo to go down for another 3 hours.Quick firewall USA ISP's, and bomb them just in case.
-I can only program my video,ahh, I am not a gook, but a joook -The World is a theatre of the absurd
Whatever. The war on Terrorism won't last until the next election. Bush will never be able to kill Bin Laden (the key to electoral success for the idiot). Hank Kissinger, who should be on trial at the Hague along with Milosevic for the Dirty Wars in Cambodia, Bolivia and Chile, is pulling the strings on foreign policy (if you can call it that). And the real evil emperor, Dick "HAsn't seen an Oil Deal or CIA Front that's too Dirty" Cheney has finally got the chance to rule from behind the curtain.
The racist baiting of China will get the US smacked down like a beeeeeotch. The Chinese have no qualms about killing millions to prove a point , which makes them morally equivalent to the US. The American public is stupid enough to vote for Bush, but is not stupid enough to grind through another Cold War with evil White emperors sending their kids off to the slaughter for God and Country. Makes me want to move to the EU, where fascism is called by its real name, not jingoed patriotism.
Comparing it to Windows will be a moot point, since El Dorado is going to have a 40% larger code base than XP.
If the Communist Chinese think their cyberattack will cripple our military, I think they're going to find out that might not exactly work.
The reason is simple: US military systems are NOT connected to the commercial Internet. Given that we have devoted a lot of resources to monitor and safeguard our military communications, the Chinese won't dent much of our military communications unless they deliberately drop a nuclear bomb against our military command centers (and even that won't quite work because we have contingency plans thanks to Looking Glass and NEACAP planes).
Now, China deliberately interfering with the commercial Internet is something else, though. However, careful design of routers and careful firewall installation will likely limit any damage since the Internet doesn't really have any critical points that can bring down most of the Internet.
Now everybody, let's all take 10 seconds to make sure our firewall and AV software is up-to-date. Okay. Good. Whooo! That was a close one. (As I wipe the sweat off my brow). Now we can all go back to not giving a shit what the Chinese are up to.
...from 'Business as Usual?'
.cn netspace is one of the biggest spam sources on the planet, thanks to massive numbers of open SMTP relays, open SOCKS proxies, and SysAdmins that are either incompetent or Just Don't Frelling Care.
.cn IP space firewalled out of my domain's mail servers since October last year. It is a simple matter to firewall them out of my router as well.
The
I've had the entirety of
How many other admins are doing, or already have done, something similar?
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,
Blue Feather Technologies
Of course, the way we figured it out is we went to the CIA and DOD and said,
"Are you guys planning to attack Chinese computer systems?"
"Of course."
So the thinking goes, if we're planning on how to do it, so are they. Ergo:
CHINESE MAY BE PLANNING ATTACK ON US & TIAWAN COMPUTER SYSTEMS!
Awake! Awake! Fear - Fire - Foes! Awake!
The Russians are also planning on retaliating against a major nuclear attack from the US by launching thier own massive nuclear attack.
Ain't none of it actually likely to happen.
if ($it != $onething) {$it = $another;}
bummer some peeps don't like my joke.
-THIS SPACE FOR RENT!
It doesn't seem difficult to block out all traffic from China, as we've seen recently the
blocking of email traffic from large portions of asia, putting a block on all internet traffic from China is a menial task.
Perhaps it's a Chinese government plan so that the rest of the world block all connections to and from China - that way the good honest communists cannot be corrupted by the rest of the world.
Maybe we'd play into their hands if we blocked them.
Get your own free personal location tracker
Aren't they vying for most favored station?
George J. Tenet writes:
Dear Slashdot,
I heard a rumor that China was going to attack the US Internet. I am interested in stopping this action before it gets too bad. Any ideas where can I find cheap routers and a rackmount system to protect myself?
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
The chinese have a massive military, billions of people, incredibly modern technology, a space program, etc. You honestly think that if we firewall off their nation, that will stop a *planned, deliberate attack*? OK, even assuming you have a fullproof method to wall China off from the internet (and Pakistan, and Russia, and all of the 23 other countries sympathetic to China and willing to let chinese communications companies route through them..) They could just come over to the united states covertly (they have these things called "submarines") drive to some telephone switch in the middle of nevada, and install a box that recieves commands from china via satellite and injects whatever its commanders tell it to into the american communications network. Boom, they're inside the firewall. You think if america couldn't keep agents of a disorganized, wacko terrorist network from infiltrating the U.S. and obtaining pilot's licenses last year, they would be able to keep agents of a nation of 6 billion from infiltrating the U.S. and signing up for free internet accounts on AOL?
Remember the old adage: Digital security measures are always useless against someone who has physical access to the machine. Firewalls aren't much use if the hacker can physically get to a machine on the inside of the firewall..
Hey, CmdrTaco, how about a spoiler warning?
Maybe some of us wanted to be surprised when the cyber attack comes? Geez....
A) This is lame. China cant or won't do this, and the CIA is stupid for thinking they can.
B) This is all part of some plot on the part of the CIA to get more funding and/or strip away all of our remaining freedoms.
The CIA's primary role is to examine information from a wide variety of sources and attempt to categorize and where possible act to mitigate short-term and long-term threats to the security of the United States. Given that their job is akin to predicting the future, and given that even with tremendous resources, predicting the future is exceedingly difficult, the CIA will miss a lot of things that look obvious in hindsight (Al-Quaeda was planning an attack on NYC!).So the public says "shame on you, CIA, for not spotting that obvious threat!"
But then, they often catch things that you and I aren't even aware of. They actually do this on a routine basis, and often times American foreign policy is directly influenced by information the CIA has successfully collected and/or analyzed. Of course, the CIA can't go around trumpeting these successes, because it decreases the odds of them being successful in the future.
So China may or may not be planning cyber-attacks on Taiwan and/or the United States. Do you really think that you for some reason know better than the CIA what's going on in the minds of China's rulers?
The CIA has been very wrong in the past, but more often than not, they're right. Also, remember that if China doesn't launch such attacks, it's not necessarily proof that the CIA was in error. It could be that by leaking their knowledge of Chinese plans, the CIA is betting that they'll elect not to try it.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
"BOOO!"
What I'm trying to illustrate here is that with the HUGE amount of "warnings", "notices", and "advisories" coming out these days, it may be a good idea to count how many hundred times an article has the word "might" in it.
is every citizen of china getting on line and /. ing all the .gov sites in the US
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
his adult life and who rides his bike by the CIA office where they park their convoy of matching pink 50cc scooters --I'm not kidding-- everyday on his way to work, I can tell you that spooky stories about mainland China are that. . . . spooky stories. Dime a dozen, they wrap fish with spooky China stories around here.
You want to know about a spooky country--Japan. That's a scare story that has everything to do with Taiwan. Those whacky Japanese are playing scuicide with their economy and they're going to take Taiwan with them.
DOS attacks from Mainland China are not a threat, Japan's serene implosion is a major threat to the global economy. DOS attacks, not scarry, Yen at 200, very very scarry.
I've noticed, that semptember 9-11, and this are mainly aimed at the US ...
:).
....
Wonder why not the UK, well looking at the World Wars (1 and 2) it would seem the UK did pretty well for a 'island'
I wonder
Remember then Chinese hacker push in early May of last year? It was to coincide with May Day and in protest over the whole U.S. Spy Plane Hainan Island debacle the month before that.
;-P ). I guess honker is hacker in Chinese. It was a toolbox of scripts and methodologies.
Some MS boxen got "f**k USA government f**k poizonbox" pasted all over their IIS roots. Not much beyond that, and I think some American hackers returned the favor. A little miniature patriotic hacker war.
Out of curiosity, I kept up to date on Chinese hacking at a site whose address is www.cnhonker.com (visit at your own risk, and don't hit the Back button
But very recently, in March, the site was closed by someone called "lion". I had a Chinese coworker of mine visit the site, and she translated the brief explanation for the site's closing as "After long thinking, we have no choice but close it. Please don't write to us asking why, give us a little time. We'll be back. September 2002, we'll see you again"
I am not much of a conspiracy theorist, but when it comes to autocratic governments, my instincts change... any bets on whether or not the Chinese Government has coopted some of their talented hackers for a patriotic cause?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
If china wanted to attack the USA [or anywhere else] then they'd send out some email viruses. There's more than enough dumbasses on the net that would open it up and unwittingly launch the attacks on China's behalf. Carnivore could be used to filter them, if they [guvverment] tried.
OTOH, direct packet attacks are a different kettle of fish. The only glimmer of hope is that the NSA [or other three-letter-agency] had Cisco equipment riddled with backdoors, just like MS Software. Hell, well all know they've done worse...
Ali
"Windows and Linux can co-exist on the same machine." - Microsoft Corporation.
Got an apartment there already. See ya and your fascist leaders!
Comparing it to Windows will be a moot point, since El Dorado is going to have a 40% larger code base than XP.
Big deal, they slow the internet down to a crawl for a few days as firewall administrators around the globe block them.
I've already blocked them. If the eggheads can't control their mail servers I really don't want any traffic from them. They aren't getting me any business.
Can anyone give me a reason that I SHOULDN'T block those racists?
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
I've been receiving a lot of test spam from them recently, which I've been bouncing to the FTC and the Secret Service as appropriate ...
Good thing I never downloaded the Chinese Fonts, or I'd be able to read the messages they write on my screen:
"All your food is belong to us"
-
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
This is all about enacting a treaty that will allow us to pursue "cyber-terrorists" into the networks of china, rather than allowing the world to hack a chinese box and have anonymity.
Scare the public into blocking china's net access and see how quickly they allow info-extradition treaties to form.
I doubt the US military could control the scale as well in an attack on China. I envision that it would instead have to be a full blown knock-down-drag-out war. I'm not quite sure if American citizens are up for that.
Consider for the moment that China is a xenophobic nuclear power, and that they have little regard for the lives of their own citizens (c.f Cultural Revolution, Tianneman Square). How much regard do you think they would have for USian soldiers or civilians? China would be fighting against the barbarians at the gate, and there is a dim-witted cowboy in the Whitehouse. It scares me to think who would be tempted to press the big red button first.
I do not think that it would be in anyone on this planet's interest for China and the US to fight any sort of war...
*** Where are we going? And what's with this handbasket?
Is the CIA ethically above faking an "cyber-attack" from a foreign power? It would justify an increase in the CIA's powers, perhaps to institute a national firewall or other measures to further control the Internet. All in the name of national security, of course.
I don't trust the Chinese People's Army at all, but I trust the CIA even less. Which has done more real harm in the world? Pretty close call.
=brian
Why does the US always feel that it is justified in arming itself with every weapon imaginable but others aren't. Remember what happened when India and Pakistan tested their nukes?
If they are developing methods of attacking via the Internet, so are we. Yes its a good thing we know of its possibility and are going to take steps to defend ourselves incase such an attack occurs, however, it doesn't mean the Chinese are "evil terrorist hackers!"
Just my opinion anyway.
- Tempestdata
What is with America's paranoia with respect to China? Why would China "cyberattack" the United States? Do you all really believe that Communism and the PRC is evil, and will stop at nothing to destroy America?
Reality check: the only nation currently bent on world domination is the United States of America.
Mod me down: -1 Unpatriotic
Lemme get this straight, they're going to fly around some 3D pylons inside US mainframes and rifle through garbage files? give me a break. There's enough script kiddies running around to keep most sysadmins jumping, what's China going to do? make a full scale attack coming from .cn? America's got China by the balls inetwise and they know it. Piss the US off and they'll just pull the plug; considering the direction of the economy at the moment that would not be a good thing for China.
What would china have to gain by attacking us?
They might spy on us, but we spy on them too.
Attacking us is not going to happen, they wouldnt gain anything out of it.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
If a Communist state prefers tight control of information, and hackers seek to disseminate information, then how can the two justify their coexistance?
The article talks of military assault, and likens Chinese military capabilities to Chinese student hackers, though in ideology the two groups seem diametrically opposed.
I don't doubt that nationalism runs in the veins of anybody, but who among you sacrifice your ideology for the sake of your nation? Whose nation says your reprehensible actions are acceptable if aimed at the enemy?
Well, I suppose they all do. Be wary though, for when the enemy is gone, it is you who will be the enemy.
One cannot deny the insanity of the masses; one can only hope our leaders are not taken by its charms.
I can't wait to read the article about HERBAL VIAGRA, and I know "that thing" could be a real big deal in the future.
Good let the prices get higher, We'd all be making more money!
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
If you ask me, someone should be regulating them. Just cause innocent civilians were the target of an attack, what gives them the right to go out and kill? Think about it, why is it right for the US to go out and slaughter people? It's not. They've already killed innocent civilians, violence solves nothing. They're doing exactly what the al-queda (sp?) did to them. They have become terrorists.
"you sonofabitch i didn't know!"
This is a copy of the message which set off the chain of events leading to this news article.
---
From: eli7ehax0r@yahoo.cn
to: President@Whitehouse.gov
Subject: fuck poiSonB0x!
ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US.
FUCk PoiSonB0x! Mr. President@!!!!!`
from: #poisonB0x@irc.haxor.cn
w3 are leetest. America must die!!!
---
Needless to say, the US elite anti-terrorism squads are taking the very seriously, and will start bombing China immediately.
(note: lameness filter sucks.)
Look out!! Behind you!! Oh, never mind, I must've scared him away.
...this article can't really be taken seriously. The Supreme Court has rejected prior restraint except in cases where National Security is involved. The article states that it was a classified report that discusses China's activities. If it was something important, the CIA could've pulled the whole article simply because it's classified - that's the only justification they need of its importance to National Security.
Furthermore, isn't leaking classified information treason? Yeah. So read it and write it off as "FUD". China simply wouldn't be able to hack into the U.S. systems - if we thought there was a threat, we could simply temporarily disconnect the overseas backbones (of which there are suprisingly few). Beyond that, the military, for some time, has used satellites to communicate; and every critical computer system is connected to a separate internal network, with no contact points to the Internet.
If China wants to drop some Spec. Ops. onto the Pentagon, that's a whole different story. But for now I'm not worried. Unless they try and DOS whitehouse.gov and kill all my RtCW ping times.
Jake
Dating: while( 1 ){ call_girl(); get_rejected(); drink_40(); } return 0;
Okay using a bit of Perl we find that this article had 10 instances of the word 'cyber' in it. A stupid meaningless buzz word. Any competant admin who updates their system has very little to fear from
I especially love the part where it tells us how 'future conflicts will be cyber in nature'. Whatever, we dropped bombs in WWII without computers I'm sure we can do it now.
Stupid fear mongering, move along
The Anti-Blog
I submitted this a few hours ago and got rejected, but anyway... One question I raised in my submission (just about where the HERBAL VIAGRA joke is in this one), and one that I still think is worth answering is this:
The L.A. Times piece cites the CIA as saying that the People's Liberation Amry is conducting "research into offensive-minded cyber-tools" with the intent to cause damage to U.S. and Tawainese systems.
A technical contact at the Chinese Embassy in Washington counters that the research conducted by the Chinese government is purely defensive in nature.
There is no difference between offensive and defensive research except the intent, right? I mean, you could write a virus strictly for a deeper understanding of viral algorithms and how to protect against them. You could study more secure firewalls in order to circumvent them.
In short, the CIA can't prove that the research is offensive in nature unless they have intercepted Chinese plans to utilize the research in an offensive way. Similarly, it would be even harder for the Chinese to prove that it is defensive.
Therefore the news content in this article is essentially this: the CIA noticed that Chinese government studies network security.
sig is
Oh sure, they can take out Los Angeles. But that will be the end of their country. After that is over, Mongolia will probably invade them again. On horseback.
This is just the usual yelling "fire!" in the burned-out theater. Wake me up when the Marines start landing in Hainan.
That's me "treasonous." I would rather live in a country that has just laws and doesn't lock up whole classes of people (Africans) and pushes other countries into conflict by meddling in their internal affairs. Countries that learn from their mistakes. The US that won WWII is long fucking gone. It taught the lessons and then forgot them. Now you have a place that allows fascists to steal elections under a system rigged to empower the rich. Doesn't it sicken you that GERMANY is a freer and more just country than the US? You are a thoroughly propagandized troll who will live and tie under your master's thumb without once feeling free becuase the only real price you ever paid for freedom was $12.88 a Walmart.
Anyhoo, I grew up speaking German so what's the fucking difference? I am sure you would have loved Germany's policies toward those who dissent if they had won WWII. They labelled them treasonous and shot them. Isn't that what you are doing, you fascist.
Comparing it to Windows will be a moot point, since El Dorado is going to have a 40% larger code base than XP.
Try this:
0 1
/16s and 300+ /24s.
http://ftp.apnic.net/stats/apnic/apnic-2002-04-
It shows APNIC assignments. You have to grep through the list to get just the CN assignments. It's a big, ugly, long list of 366 netblocks. 53
I'm gonna add it to the filter(s) at home and see what it does before I fubar the office with it.
Not nearly that simple. Do you cut off HK? Taiwan? Think of the bus. implications of that; companies would have to have private links (no problem), but there will always be a way around.
There just isn't a way to cut someone off completely, especially when they have friends...
This isn't significantly different from the militarizaton of space. China has space launch capabilities, and it doesn't take more than simple collision to destroy a satellite. Yet I don't worry about China (or anybody else) knocking US (or anybody else's) satellites out of the sky.
Why? Because an attack on our satellites would be no different from, say, offshore planes or ships jamming radio signals, or, for that matter, a bunch of commandoes blowing up inland transmission towers. It's a potentially devastating move, but it's also unquestionably an attack on the US and an obvious precursor to invasion or nuclear attack.
A concerted attack on the Internet, and especially on Amereican military computers that are connected to the Internet, is every bit the act of war as are the other scenarios.
Folks, the Chinese are not stupid. For all the sabre-rattling Beijing might do (and let's not forget that Washington's swords are pretty noisy, themselves), they're not about to commit species suicide anytime soon. MAD aside, China is no match for the US militarily in an all-out war, and that's what we've promised if they invade Taiwan. They might not like it, but they know it.
Should the military take steps to protect themselves against such an attack? Of course. But the rest of us shouldn't worry about it any more than we worry about CNN going off the air due to military action.
b&
All but God can prove this sentence true.
Why in the whole world the CIA would give a secret report to the newspapers?
The only logic explaination is to keep the americain public opinion has low as possible towards China: the Evil communist folks and to try the ground for a new regulation on the web.
But in an other way the internet is not at the avantage of China cause it's a salepitch for the americain way of life, capitalist, and less but still controlled speech.
What is the diference between Democratie and Communist(Totalitarism)?
In communist, you have to think the way they want, in capitalism you can think what you want as long has you think what they want you to think.
illegal != impossible
Sheesh, I wish these politicians and spooks would grow up. The Yellow Menace went out with poodle skirts and tailfins. These poor blokes, with George "how do you spell W?" Bush at their head, need an enemy to pad their profit lines.
Yeah, some Chinese twits might do something annoying -- just like our own twits. Why are *their* twits worse? I can hazard a guess...
All about me
Isn't all the really critical stuff (defense, space, air traffic, telecom, power, finance, etc) all air-gapped? Meaning, they're PHYSICALLY disconnected from the Internet or other public networks.
Maybe I'm naive, but I don't see how short of a "deep plant" to get an agent "inside" in a position of responsibility, very good social engineering or physical sabotage/attacks, hackers (from any part of the world) could cause REAL crippling damage (more than just defacing web sites or destroying non-critical servers).
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Just another reason to add all Chinese domains to my e-mail blacklist.
Canadian Cynic, canadian politics is less boring than you
On the other hand, that DOS attacks will occur is as newsworthy as saying that your children will have colds sometimes. It's all a part of growing up.
Think, write, think, edit, think...then post.
The CIA mission is to gather intelligence and provide advice to the leadership of the US. Maybe they need occasional moral steering, but the general need for their mission will not go away. And the CIA is special because they are meant to be the primary human intelligence (HUMINT) agency (as opposed to the NSA, which is an electronic intel (ELINT) agency) Incidents like 9/11/2001 show that they do let things slip past, but I shudder to think of what would be done to us without them out there intercepting things.
Do you have a suggestion for a replacement? The rest of the world would not stop spying if we suddenly stopped doing it. Would you rather that intel come in through military intelligence agencies?
Despite the best efforts of the unamerican fuckheads at Cisco and Yahoo (and AOL, Sun, Netscape) even the great chinese firewall isn't impenetrable. Here's a good link on the subject. So why not do unto them as they do unto us - and hack and/or ddos sensitive chinese sites? Show 'em that Americans aren't as lazy and incompetent as they think we are, at least as far as hackers are concerned. Here's a link to get you started - the official state propoga^H^H^H^H^H^H^H paper The People's Daily, chinese edition.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
I'll secure my own systems, thanks. I don't need the government to do it for me.
Not to mention that I don't trust them enough to stop themselves from abusing it.
Do you get any traffic you want from .cn? No? Then just block it. All of it. Every IP address you can find in the .cn TLD. Anyone who looks at intrusion logs will have come to a similar conclusion. .cn addresses have a very high bullshit-to-business ratio, so why even bother? .cn, sorry, you are probably going to be hurt if this report is right.
If you want traffic from
...they just come out and say, "We want a bigger budget!"? And with Bush Jnr in office, they will get whatever they want. The CIA are the biggest threat in this world, not China.
The real thing that bothers me here is how easy it is for the FBI and CIA to just cry wolf.
I can think of at least 20-30 instances of them claiming some terrible tragedy was going to happen and then.... nothing.
Right now we are currently on "yellow alert" for "unsubstantiated" claims that there will be terrorist attacks against banks.
... unsubstantiated huh. If you want any other unsubstantiated claims, just give me a call!
In San Francisco, we still have national gaurd around the Golden Gate and Bay Bridges because of similar claims made *months* ago!
The thing I am really worried about is that a real 911 threat comes again and we do NOTHING about it because the CIA/FBI have made 1000 of these claims that ended in nothing.
Get your act together guys!
Uhh, you make it sound as if the police walk the streets and send anyone of African descent to jail. Patently untrue.
pushes other countries into conflict by meddling in their internal affairs
Ok yeah, we do this, and we need to stop
While I wouldn't exactly call you treasonous. (You actually have to betray your country to get that status) You are full of hot air and little sense. If you don't like it here so much get the fuck out.
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
Makes me want to move to the EU, where fascism is called by its real name, not jingoed patriotism.
GET HERBAL VIAGRA?
I just logged into my Hotmail account, it looks like the attack has begun!
I mean, why else would they be running Linux? Linux is for hackers, right? And everyone knows hackers are evil, desiring nothing but the total disruption and destruction of the American Way of Life(tm), just like those Godless Commies in China. Open Source is just another form of Communism.
Of course, the Chinese will say that they run Linux because of "backdoors" and "security holes" in Windows. Well, if they weren't planning to attack us, they'd have nothing to hide, would they? And if they had nothing to hide, they'd be running Windows and the CIA would know EXACTLY what they were up to! None of this "maybe" crap!
Seriously, though, how much damage could they really do? Oh no, I wouldn't be able to surf the web for a little while! My email might be delayed! Really, how effective would such an attack actually be in terms of an act of war?
It's well documented that the CIA is the largest drug dealing organization in the world, and it's common knowledge that most dealers are also users. I think this particular theory proves that those CIA boys have been smoking crack!
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
Given how National Public Radio reported this story (failed to question the hype), I can't imagine how wacky General Electric (defense contractor) news (NBC) will report on it. My boss is usually a good hype barometer, I'll see if he's sucked in by it.
At first I started getting angry, then I realized. Troll. Almost got me to flame you,... almost. It was the last paragraph that pushed it WAY over the edge of belief though.
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
Reading this article and especially these comments (one in particular) just bore the shit out of me.
The one comment is the "I am a white christian male who is a genius and never gets laid and people envy me". Please email me sir, for you are a large part of the same problem that put George Bush illegally into the most powerful position in the world.
As far as China attacking the United States on any level, the CIA and FBI and all those government agencies have to justify their existance. Call me Tin Foil Hat, but I believe the possibility exists that Sept. 11th was allowed. I believe the government of this country may be corrupt on so many levels, it's unthinkable. The untied states government is being innundated with greedy politicians intent on using their office to manipulate the laws to them and their white christain genius golfing buddies can make more money OFF OF US. China is not the problem. They will have their own revolution in time. Those people aren't going to stand in poverty forever.
As far as the United States goes, if you can convice the people there is a threat from the outside, they will not see the threats on the inside. The administration is quietly moving around, destroying the environment, looting the economy. In 6 years, if we are unlucky, this could be one huge back robbery.
We are not respected. We are not envied. We were. Now, we are a nation of greedy, fat consumers (yes geek, look at thou belly and man titties) who have NO CONCEPTION for the most part of what is going on in the outside world. We want Felcity and Ally, we want new cars and cheap gas. The rest of the world is eclipsing us in so many senses, morally, ethically, socially, technologically.
I am not tolling the bell, there are excellent pockets of innovation and love and life and all that (California) but then there are cancerous pockets of people who still believe in a big man up in the sky who is some kind of an aggressive puppetmaster (The Southern US and Mid East... oops, did I just compare the right to the wrong? maybe the right are wrong).
China is not the problem. Wake up sheep. Read 1984,stop watching TV, talk to people below you economic class. The biggest threat we have right now is the rights our own government is erroding. Excuse me if I have to leave now, I have to go opiate myself on a diet of fulling yet totally nutriounless fast food and have Dr. Phil tell me how to be a better consum... er... person.
Peace.
nickrussell@hotmail.com
IIRC the Chinese tried to claim Taiwan was Chinese property a few years ago,
The Chinese have *always* claimed to own Tiawan, and the Tiawanese for that matter claim to own China. This 50 year old conflict has a very real potential to boil over into a real shooting war and if it does we would very likely get involved. The CIA is warning that when/if that happens the Chinese are planning a cyber attack as one element of their battle plan.
Do the Chinese really want to pick a fight with a country that is fairly internet-dependent and risk starting World War 3 and in the process getting nuked into oblivion?
No, but it is not hard to imagine a scenario where they did. And it is unlikely that we would use nukes since China is perfectly capable of retaliating in kind. (thanks to US aerospace companies)
[flamebait]
Ok, so public support for Operation Bomb the Towelheads is declining; what's the government to do? I know! Let's make the American people xenophobic of ANOTHER socioreligious group!
What this all boils down to is a game of hide-the-sasuage that the government is playing with us. The general public is like a herd of buffalo: pretty dumb, hard to get moving, hard to turn, hard to stop when they ARE moving. Apparently support of the US' support of Israel (as Israel plays their own game of Bomb the Towelys) is waning, so the US needs another shiny object with which to distract the herd.
Hmm, I know how to distract them! Let's release a shiny press releas^H^H^H^H news item! Let's see, it's buzzword bingo time:
Hackers? CHECK
Cyber-terrorism? CHECK
Red commie Chinese? CHECK
SHINY OBJECT COMPLETED. DO YOU WISH TO DEPLOY? (Y/N)
DISTRACTION SUCCESSFUL, YOU MAY RECOMMENCE BOMBING OF THE ARAB NATION.
[/flamebait]
I'm sorry if I sound cynical, but the public seems to be infinitely stupid and the government seems to be infinitely willing to leverage this stupidity to their advantage. Just planting the meme of "Chinese Cyber-terrorists!" is bad enough. What's even worse is that the lemmings will be talking about this vaporous Chinese threat over the watercooler tomorrow morning instead of talking about how Israel murdered so many Palestinians and buried them in a mass grave.
It's a red herring planted by a cynical government which isn't afraid to use blatant misdirection to draw attention away from itself.
Cuz that'd be a really sweet hack. Maybe they'll just deface some websites. CH1N4 RUL3Z. 1N J00R F4C3 4M3R1C4! Seriously though, I'm sure I'm going to demonstrate my ignorance, but, what exactly is out there connected to the internet that is of real strategic importance (ie, electric grids, banks, missile launching stuff).
Where in my original post did I say that nobody could criticize the government for its actions? I firmly believe in your right, my right, everyone's right to criticize the government. That's what democracy is all about.
Think for yourself indeed. I fail, however, to see how a warning about potential Chinese cyber-attacks is manipulation of the entire country.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
- EITHER the Chinese haxors OR the open IIS boxes filling the net with millions of worm-attacks in their stupid (but bandwidth consuming) attempts to multiply ?
- EITHER the single technician within a Chinese ministry who is trying his exploit- and DOS-scripts during the wave of fruitless attacks after the spy-plan incident OR the CIA manipulating public opinion with (no longer soooo confidential) attack warnings ?
IMO the real thread comes from hatred, intentional misinformation and nationalistic prejudices. These things have allways been a sure sign of hawks seeking more power and preparing for wars. And hawks are having their great high-flights on both sides of the Pacific at the moment.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
They already filter traffic from the outside, when should major backbone routers start filtering anything from China.
.cn? (Not to be arrogant or make a stupid statement -- it really is a question, I'm interested)
Chinese spam floods US and other countries networks, and DoS attacks (be them intentional, unintentional, or the result of a hacked use of a chinese server) costs money to ISP's, and that gets passed through to the consumer.
Whens the last time you've received actual, credible, useful mail from
For example, US military capabilities are overwhelming in part because of CIA contributions. But no intelligence agency worth a damn is going to go around saying, "See that special ops hit on the enemy command and control node? WE provided the intel for that!"
Just because they're not crowing about their successes doesn't mean that they're a bunch of incompetents.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
probably ran around kicking squirels, and wondered why they bit him... maybe he liked the shots? rabies, rabies!!!!
sounds kind of 1984-ish. the alliance is in great danger of attack from those that are evil. oh yah, everyone except us is evol! kick kick!!!
nader was right though, gotta wonder what we got ourselves into...
If they don't even want to tell about the times they've been right in the past, it is even less of a chance that they will tell the public a truthful prediction of the future (like this alledgedly is).
What the CIA says publicly will obviously have no correlation (neither positive nor negative) with what they really think is the truth. They will simply give statements that they think have a desired effect, either on the american public or on foreign governments. How could it be otherwise? This is not because they are "evil" or whatever. It is their job.
Do you really think that you for some reason know better than the CIA what's going on in the minds of China's rulers?
This is a strawman. I certainly do not think so, neither do anyone else. The real question is: Do you really think that you know what the CIA knows about the minds of the rulers of China? What would CIA possibly have to gain by being consistently truthful in what they say to you to you (about as much as if they were consistently lying, I suppose)?
The conclusion must be that to extract any information whatsoever from the CIA, you have to analyze what they say. Do they have anything to gain by lying about this matter? (Yes, a lot - More threats = more budget). Do they have anything to gain by being truthful (Sure - If they think it is a real threat, it is only good if the servers get prepared). This analysis give no reason to believe either one or the other. In other words, the article has almost zero informational content.
Simple, no? A bit of critical thinking will get you a long way.
Opinions stated are mine and do not reflect those of the Illuminati
This is little more than a journalist's self-fulfilling prophecy. You get disinterested parties (the CIA isn't exactly it) saying that there's something big brewing, then you've got a story I'll listen to. Coming from a journalist on a slow newsday or a law organization that isn't a shining beacon of all that is good and great with democracy, however...
Easy does it!
This comment has been submitted already, 276865 hours , 59 minutes ago. No need to try again.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
You mean when Bush said "The Chinese have Chomskybot and are not afraid to use 'em against Slashdotters?" ;-)
I think it's completely stupid to call every single "evildoer" a terrorist. Terrorism is about terror. I don't care what you do with your stupid computer, I am not terrified. I may be annoyed, it may cost people money and it will piss off a lot of people. But being pissed off is a far cry from being dead. 9/11/01 was terrorism, suicide bombers are terrorists, computer hacking and DOS attacks are NOT terrorism.
Because American media and politicians find a word that sparks emotion they use it whenever they can until the word loses it's true meaning.
If you don't believe me, you don't live in the US.
Guess you weren't really committed to that "slashdot blackout", huh?
Or, China could just launch a massive denial-of-service attack by sending billions of "GET HERBAL VIAGRA" e-mails from the .cn TLD.
You mean, that DoS attack is not already underway???
If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
Ever heard of the 6 Days War? Israel defeated Egypt, Jordan, Syria in 6 days.
If any Arab country had any hope of defeating Israel they would have attacked already. They don't and they won't.
The only people planning to cyber attack the US are spotty Teaxan kids who hang out in alt.2600
Ever seen the Chinese character for l33t haXor d00d?
The rumors are that most CIA personnel feel guilty about 9/11 and are working balls to the wall to redeem themselves.
This is just the CIA's usual round of fearmongering so that they can (a) scare the government into modifying laws to give them more power and (b) scare the public into accepting more draconian laws.
I remember a year or two back how heavily convinced they claimed to be that a huge cyber-attack from Cuba was imminent. Oh please.
Gee, I wish I hadn't missed that one.
This is a very serious threat. Think about it, if the US is Cyber attacked by the Chinese they're going to retaliate somehow. If they feel threatened enough they might just decide to use weapons of mass destruction, yes I know it's hard to imagine but they might even use The Bomb !!!!! The Netscape could be changed forever and Cyberspace could enter a virtual nuclear winter freezing every server on the planet!! PLEASE think of the children and do all you can to convince the leaders of both country to enter a virtual cooling off period.
I stole this Sig
If china does DNS attack it will be very easy to block them. Just block everything that comes from China. Further more China knows that, and knows that they will suffer economicaly if they are disconnected from the internet and would not try to launch DNS attacks. What the CIA is really worried is hackers from the first world, who will be hard to track down and may disagree with many powerful people's and cormporations visions of the new world order.
considering a router somewhere in the midwest going down this morning prevented my office from seeing vast chunks of the internet (including, apparently, our default nameservers.. thankfully i could still get to /.) and thus we were *completely* unable to work for a few hours (a major hardship, not to get email all morning. it took me five minutes to determine it wasn't a local problem. the rest of the time, i read Wired.), a real attack, taking down important sites would make my life.. er.
actually...
a lot easier. damn. no nagging email from clients, no more spam for a few hours...
hell, i should just take the mail server offline and disconnect the phone (people that can't get their email remember my phone number real quick), tell everybody it's the chinese and that the phones got hacked, catch up on my reading or go home for a nap. that should work a a couple times, at least.
"sorry guys. nothing i can do from here. just gotta wait til things can get routed around the problem..."
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
sadly i don't see how it is redundant. cause its a JOKE PEOPLE oh welll.. blah
-THIS SPACE FOR RENT!
We give away (computer) viruses to China all the time:
http://vmyths.com/rant.cfm?id=316&page=4
http://vmyths.com/resource.cfm?id=49&page=1
Maybe someone should tell the CIA?
Furry cows moo and decompress.
Dear George and the good ol' boys probably took a look at the Chinese national firewall and thought, "Wouldn't it be great if we could have one of those too? Now, how are we gonna get this past the online-rights crowd?"
maybe the chinese are watching the discovery channel to determine what systems are our trusted military ones:
.mil guy talking about how they keep all there machines secured and was saying that they dont even let the IP addresses for machines be known - but right behind him was a screen that had a list of IPs and hostnames for boxes on their network and it was fully readable when watching the show.
There was a show on (IIRC modern marvels) that was talking about a military unit dedicated to securing their systems and monitoring for break ins. there was a
they prolly just got a freeze frame from that show.
Here's an interesting thought. How about if you start telling Wal-Mart and Target that you won't buy their "stuff" because half of what they sell is made in China.
It's my highly opinioned opinion that China needs a quick kick in the pants. It's obvious they're jerking the US around, and of course our highly insightful politicians will continue to tolerate such nonsense because our economy is magically tied to paying the Chinese to make shower curtains for pennies in labour costs.
It's time that the US population wake up to the problems corporate America has created. We've basically empowered these people through the economic relationships to make what was formerly made in the US. But I'm asking too much, the sheeple of America are happy as long as they can watch some insipid reality TV show.
Yeah, but they usually compensate by posting the stories long after everyone else has run them :]
The basic problem with your viewpoint here is that you've allowed yourself to be sucked into the American Media Machine regarding Bin Laden.
Bin Laden is a small time hoodlum that fathered the psychosis and reactionary leanings of a few zealots, like any good cult leader would. Then they commandeered some planes and caused some serious destruction and loss of life. At least that is what you have been fed. It remains to be seen how much of this is truth, and how much is manufactured for convenience. GW can't very well address the American Constituency and say "We didn't even see this coming, and we have no idea who did this".
To compare Bin Laden with the likes of Hitler is to insult the lives of the *millions* of people who lost their lives during WWII. The American military brass are so busy trying to forestall the next Vietnam, WWII, or Korea, that they cannot see the forest for the trees. In the Eighties it was the Ayatollah in Iran and Mohammar Qadafi in Libya, in the Nineties it was Saddam Hussein in Iraq, and in the 2000's it's Osama Bin Laden. Step back and have a look a what your democratic and free nation has accomplished.
In five years Bin Laden will be gone and you'll be turning another tin-pot reactionary into a celebrity. Maybe this time he will be a cyber-terrorist. Ooh, just imagine the headlines. Meanwhile in a bombed-out faraway place that was a media/military magnet 10 years ago...a young mother begs for food in the streets...a boy died after stepping on a landmine today...
Very little of the military actions taken by America in the last 30 years have been based on moral or ethical quandaries facing the free-world, such as those faced by humanity in the 30s and 40s. Rather, the majority of American actions have involved leveraging your superior military might against foreign nations who threaten your economic position, usually in the petroleum based industries.
Please step back from the fear and hatred for a moment. Step back from the pablum that is your news media. And take a good hard look at the benefits and priveleges you have because of all those people all over the world who cannot participate in democracy, or don't enjoy the same level of economic power because the US government won't "liberate" them, as their is no oil to be found there.
Nobody gave a shit about Afghani women in burkhas until Bin Laden stepped on your lawn. But now the US has 'moral' obligation to restore order and democracy to the West, and rid the world of the evil Al-Qaeda. It reads like a drug-store novel. People have been twiddling their thumbs and farting around for years over the crap that goes/went on in South Africa (apartheid) and starving Africans, and hummed-and hawed about Croatia, Serbia, and Chechnya. But the US never took much of a moral interest in any of it other than an obligatory peace-keeping role or diplomatic stance. Mainly because their was no economic benefit to any of it, seeing as how there was fuck-all in the way of resources in any of those countries. But oh, watchout for those dirty towel-heads and camel-jockeys, they want to kill all Americans. Right. I think they just want you to stay the hell away. But you don't because you need that oil.
Israel has one of the most lethal and sophisticated military establishments in the world, heavily subsidized by the US. If anyone has been treading the fine line of morality (can you say systematic state-sactioned racism toward palestinians), it is Israel. And you're in bed with them, and we all know it.
The world is watching you Rome, and we can see corruption and decadence. Not a good model of democracy and freedom, just a good game of command and conquer.
Looks like someone at the CIA fianlly got around to reading Unrestricted Warfare by Qiao Liang and Wang Xiangsui. This is a very interesting read and brings up many points worth thinking about. Chief among these is the fact that in unbalanced conflicts (think U.S. vs. Afganistan) the weaker party must use all means at their disposal to counter their opponents overwhelming military might. This includes computer hacking, financial speculation, sanctions, assinations, and other lovely acts.
They even get the hacker terminology right:
[7] The original meaning of "hacker" was neutral and did not carry any derogatory sense. Early hackers used their obsession with technology and good intentions for society to form a unique hacker standard of logic which was strictly adhered to by many people over several generations of hackers. However, in the network space of today where the moral degeneration is getting worse day by day, there is no longer this gentlemanly attitude.
--Infinityedge
i face that almost everyday...
come home from work, log onto irc
/j #
** Private messages and popups **
Hi, ASL?
69, male divorced, with kids and down to earth.
Cyber?
... repeat above 50 times from 50 different aliases/ people.
my blog
maybe we are being hacked: check out this site
http://www.codewolf.com - Just good stuff to waste time
What color is it?
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
These messages have to be routed through major servers. First they have to go to the root nameservers to get the .com... then the DNS blah blah blah to get the IP that they're going to send it to, couldn't they just set something up on the root servers to start blocking requests from Chinese computers after the attack has begun? Is that a possibility?
Seriously, is this a joke? Bosnian Jews??? Never saw one (there are some in Serbia but almost none in Bosnia). Americans selling guns to Serbs? Are you for real? They bombed the Serbs there (and in Serbia later)! Israel selling guns to Serbs? What are you smoking? They were taking in Bosnian muslim refugees ans supporting Bosnian Muslims (until the orthodox Jew backlash) in the spirit of their current (1995-1999) "understanding" with Arabs. Serbs have no US weapons but Muslims/Croats do - that's where it went to. No Jew (execept the very few in Serbia) saw an US bomb in their back yard. No irony there at all.
Example of irony: Taliban (well radical muslims, not Taliban beacuse they didn't exist at that point but it's the same peeps) were heavily supported by US during the USSR invasion of Afghanistan. They are now preoccupied with blowing up US...
D.
Personally, I wish that the US govt would do more to examine what it is doing and stop going out of its way to make new enemies. Believe it or not, I'm not alone in this wish... maybe someday we all can get along...
My friend, I wish I had your enthusiasm. More than likely, perhaps millions of years in the future, the last living man on earth will most likely drown trying to attack its own reflection in a lake.
The truth of the matter, I believe the wholesale behavior of nations are just as insane and lacking in judgement as the people that make them up. So if a nation (as a whole) acts nuts, well then, there you go. Perhaps most of the people there are nuts too.
The USA doesn't act stupid. The USA is admittedly greedy. Not nuts or stupid. Not any more nuts than Rome acted before the whole lead in the drinking water thing, and look what they did. To think that other nations think that we are a bunch of stupid cowboys only gives us a tactical advantage. Keep thinking that. Its that same thinking that deep, hidden rock caves can save you in 21st century warfare. And that you can attack innocents in a twitchy, militaristic nation and not get some serious retribution.
I share the same feeling about most nations as I do the USA. Not nuts, not stupid, just trying to carve something for themselves. Not as greedy as America perhaps, but certainly not a bunch of saints because they're not America.
However, Saudi Arabia (and many Arabic nations) appear on the outside to be nuts. Not evil. Nuts. Any nation that enforces its dress code lethtally, speaks to the President of "the meanest dog on the street" like he is a piece of crap and HAS NO REAL ARMY TO BACK THAT SHIT UP, and then has a member of its diplomatic corps for the UK print poetry about the glorious death of their hijackers killing innocents, well then, there you go. Nuts. Not acting in a sane way. Practically begging to get fucked with by the CIA. Or killed. You just don't talk to "ol hot head" like that.
Don't even get me started on Israel.
Also, I would argue that the US has done great controlling the world. We shouldn't want to control the world, but we certainly aren't piss poor at it.
The anti-civilization nutties are rising up now, but that is because they haven't threatened me (meaning the citizens of the world) personally.
When Hussein or someone decides to make New York dissapear in a blinding white flash, well, then they will see what happens when the US starts conscripting troops, and we open up all of those warehouses full of rifles and ammo we've been stockpiling for two generations. We're the only ones fully prepared for straight up war all over the globe.
I've been to those military bases, it scares the hell out of me to see that much weaponry, and I'm an American.
But I don't think we're going to flip out real soon, though, unless someone flips out on us first, and I think that many Arabic nations have been waiting to flip out on everyone not themselves. They have been attacking the reflection in the water for generations.
That's me "treasonous." I would rather live in a country that has just laws and doesn't lock up whole classes of people (Africans)
the fact that there is a higher percentage of african-americans in the US prison system, has nothing to do with racism.
What about the only country in the world that will give you a higher chance of getting into a desired college because of your skin color. (affirmative action)
GERMANY is a freer and more just country than the US?
There are 10X the amount of people trying to enter the US...Why?
give me an example of why German is SO much better thgan the US.
Anyhoo, I grew up speaking German so what's the fucking difference?
where do you live now? If it's in the US, you have already lost your own argument.
The other half have a little "Made in the USSR" sticker on them, and except for the Chechnyans, nobody's too mad at Russia...
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Hello all, I'm writing a term paper in CSC300, professional responsibilities, course at Cal Poly. My topic is cracking with a national security spin... if we outlaw and strictly punish cracking, can we defend ourselves when 'cyberwar' breaks out? Should the US gov or other govs for that matter set up cyber branch of their military? etc. I'd appreciate any thoughts, ideas, or research pointers you could provide. Thanks.
-DCookie
My SIG is a SG-552 Commando
I can't believe I had to scroll this far down to find this post. There is a case that probably proves your point. Around y2k, there were major attacks involving airliners that were thwarted. You hear about it from time-to-time in the media, but there is no way that such a thing can ever generate the volume of coverage that 911 can. That's because the very nature of such work is such that when you succeed you generate little or no news. The same thing applies to presidents. A president who wins a war is a hero. A president who prevents a war is just "a good foreign policy president".
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
You disgust me.
In July O7, I got a mac pro. There's no punchline. Just endless joy and wonder.
You disgust me as well. I've been living in Canada the past two years, going to school, and they have been most supportive.
In July O7, I got a mac pro. There's no punchline. Just endless joy and wonder.
Yeah, the Security Firm is called the People's Liberation Army.
yours,
kbs
(subj)
"GET HERBAL VIAGLA"
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
I'm sorry, but I can't agree with you. I am from an under-developed country, South Africa, and I do not want to move to the U.S. - and I don't envy the U.S. When a programmer can get arrested for giving a speech in the U.S., things are not all well. With the DMCA, the U.S. is becoming the 1984 of old. I'd rather live in an underdeveloped country in freedom than live in the U.S. as it is now.
Are any of you still taking the CIA seriously after they released this
Use above link in moderation -- a slashdot effect on cia.gov could trigger a hail of nukes.
Yeah right, whatever. What possible reson would China have to do this? What do they get if they "win"? Is a few days (a week at the most) of clogger routers worth having trade restrictions imposed by the US and it's allies, decimating thier economy? Are a few delayed "joke of the day" emails worth having missles hurled at them evoporating thier cities? People don't start major international wars just to be mean, they do it when they can gain something. What can be gained from this?
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
I seriously doubt we'll notice any difference.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
I hope they do not attack our cyber.
We like it very much.
Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
The news in Japan is similar. One of the more popular foreign policy rags (Sapio) ran an "intelligence" report last week about Korea and China teaming up to conquer Japan.
Riiight.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
What would be the gain of a world war or a surgical strike? They won't be conquering American soil, we'd nuke everything before that happened. They will be severly hurting themselves economically (The US economy is huge, and combined with it's allies, could make China a very unhappy camper). At best, they would get to act all smug and pat themselves on the back during the couple of days it takes to clear up the routers and bring back up the sites... but a pat on the back isn't particularly comfotring when you find your country engulfed in sanctions, frozen bank accounts, and global ill-will... not to mention the revenge cyber attacks!
In fact, the revenge attacks will be particularly devistating, becuase America wouldn't be simply DDoSing, they would be breaking down firewalls and disseminating pro-democracy propaganda. As highly as the Chinese leaders think of thier little dictatorship, there is no way in hell they think they could win over the rest of the world to their cause just by spouting "Down with the Capatalists", but the reverse is very true. The free countries of the world could deal a very heavy blow simply by allowing their propaganda to flow freely in China.
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
Of course, she cannot see the digital photos I put up on my homepage because, presumably, my whole college is blocked by the Great Firewall. This very much annoys me. What this means, though, is that China is a complex country with both liberal and conservative elements. (*gasp!*) I like a lot of the progress these days, but I find their wanton blocking of any sites with opposing viewpoints really despicable.
And here you are blocking off a whole country... Which side are you on, exactly?
Damned Reds, at it again!
First they try to destroy the free world, and now SPAM! Hmmm...perhaps there's a causal link somewhere here...
-----
"Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, therefore, waffle."
So he tells you he's leaving the US, and you respond with "get the fuck out?"
Smaaaart.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
if you've seen Russia you couldn't be mad at them.. their country is still f*******d up for most parts. pitiful place... but cheap vodka, which makes me envy them.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Mac running Unix? Hollywood was just a little ahead of its time!
(e.g. MIT) has more IP addresses than a country with 1.2 billion people? I wonder who designed that setup :-)
Of course the US would prefer all resources to be allocated in that manner, not just netblocks.
It's very disturbing to see such an unqualified comment modded to "insightful".
Chinese culture and politics are different and difficult to understand - agreed. But that's true for the USA from the european perspective as well. Sometimes.
Ok, just put them on axis of evil list and switch the status flag to "enemy". I don't think that politics is binary-coded.
I thought that Japan imploded 2 years ago? And why would anyone want to attack Japan, it's not like they have any natural resources worth worrying about. Except schoolgirls, that is, but that seems to be a Japanese thing, anyway.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Didn't see this posted yet- everyone knows that all the really important gov systems are NOT on the Internet, right? And good luck getting into NIPRNET or SIPRNET. Of course, /. and uberpron.com will be down, but important gov systems won't be fux0red. Deciding whether this is good or bad thing I leave to the audience to decide.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. --Edmund Burke
Next point, surface vessels. We actually got to see the inside of a few, back in the Clinton administration when things were so chummy. The insides of chinese ships are partitioned with plywood , can you believe it? One good hit and they'd burn like a boxkite!
No, I don't think we have anything at all to worry about. Let 'em bring it, we could use the target practice. (And I mean that... our slogan should be, "We kill more of our own guys before 8am than the enemy does all day.")
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. --Edmund Burke
Ahhh.. I must work for the CIA!
By your logic, the fact that the CIA hasn't been well-represented by popular culture means that they haven't been getting much right.
If that's the case, it's also correct that before the late 1950s, African-Americans were all bumbling servants, because that's how they were portrayed in popular culture.
It would also stand to reason that because current popular culture lauds their achievements, WWF "wrestlers" are true heroes.
I could keep going, but your argument is circular, Pedro. First you say the CIA gets all the praise, then you say that they don't because they're incompetent, but that doesn't matter, because they'll still get funding.
It seems to me that your true argument is that the CIA is an evil organization that doesn't deserve funding, whether they're capable or not. If that's what you think, why not just say it?
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
China reports that the CIA might be planning an attack. Chinese officials point to the existence of a downed spy plane as evidence of CIA preparations.
Oh really? Perhaps you might like to trawl a little wider for a broader range of views before you so confidently make such an assertion.
There may be cases of racism that placed some people in prison ( 1%), but saying that's the reason there are so many african-americans in the US prison system is just as narrow minded.
I guess the reason there are any african-americans are in college is because of affirmative action.
I'm not a China supporter or a Communist, but the fact is that just because it's a bastard regime does not mean that the USA or anyone else has some divine-right to interfere.
No matter what Americans think, the Chinese are not inept idiots and when the shit hits the fan, are as capable of wiping the US off the face of the earth just as the US can do the same to it.
This "we could beat you up if we really wanted to" attitude is juvenile, naive, and will probably stop abruptly when the US is nuked, which is a fairly obvious ultimate goal for any terrorist organisation, of which there are many.
And please, comparing Alexander The Great to Curious George is an insult of global proportions....
Audere est Facere
T'is another classic case of the pot vs. the kettle.
Funny why CIA hasn't mention the "Blondes" ?
They are a group of cracker funded by CIA to whack havoc on China.
They called themselves "Blondes" because they claimed that they've all dyed their hair blondes, since they hate the original color of their hair - black.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
China:
Military manpower - fit for military service: males age 15-49: 200,886,946 (2001 est.)
India:
Military manpower - fit for military service: males age 15-49: 164,410,461 (2001 est.)
USA:
Military manpower - availability: males age 15-49: 70,819,436 (2001 est.)
Fit for service:
~35,000,000
And don't forget the rest of the world; we are outnumbered 20-one with just our most feared enemies. We mustn't forget that just because we have a little bit of water separating us from everyone else.
Cool! Amazing Toys.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesnt China only have one ISP, and thats a state operated one? I may be wrong, not certain. But at any rate... surely if they have control of the sole ISP in their country, then they are responsible for any attacks originating from that network? Seems only logical to me. After all, if they didnt sanction the attacks (meaning the defacing of US sites and the like), then they would work to reduce/combat the terrorism.. After all, unknown terrorism enacted externally can easily swing about and become internal terrorism... unless of course, its sanctioned by the Chinese government. Just a thought.
All they really need is
Ground troops, how will we stop billions of chinese people all running and attacking the whitehouse?
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
The only thing that could possibly happen is for everybody to see again how non future minded Microsofts OS Security is.
Fellow geeks, I see a conspiracy here. We the people are being mentally prepared for out war. Notice the blather about attacking Iraq. Now this article about being hacked by a bunch of SEMoFu's. Beware, you are slowly being brainwashed. Print this out, hide it, when war erupts, "I told you so!".
the only reason why some people lik echina is cause you can go over there and get tons of cheap software...admit it!
I'm just curious as to your feelings on this, so I'll ask the question simply. Do you think the United States needs an intelligence agency (in its current form or in some other manifestation?).
Also, the British may have been the first to create an "information agency" but the use of espionage has been systematically used by nation-states of all kinds since ancient India and potentially even earlier. Seems that many governments find information about threats to be valuable.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ