Slashdot Mirror


Purchase Your Personal Gene Map

dstone writes "Craig Venter, Time Magazine's Person of the Year in 2000 has a new hobby: collecting rich people's DNA. Millionaires are lining up to buy their personal gene maps for the cool price of USD$621,500. The process takes a week and you get some insight into your genetic mutations that may correlate with illnesses, cancers, Alzeimer's, etc. Venter is a high profile character in the genetic sequencing scene and the Human Genome Project. More info on him may be found here(1) , here(2), and here(3) . If you had the pocket change, would you give this man your business?"

266 comments

  1. Anybody want to venture a guess by Noose+For+A+Neck · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...as to how long it is until someone patents my genes?

    --

    Software piracy is victimless theft.

    1. Re:Anybody want to venture a guess by micromoog · · Score: 5, Funny

      I wouldn't worry if I were you.

    2. Re:Anybody want to venture a guess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Mmm, if they did this as a work for hire, couldn't you patent your own genes? That might be fun!

      Copyright yourself so others can't do it for you...

    3. Re:Anybody want to venture a guess by Suicide · · Score: 2, Funny

      I already have. There will be a per child charge, for using my patented material to create a derivative work. Charge will be based on whether or not you'd like to buy the rights to said derivative work outright (allowing your children to have charge free children), or simply borrow it for the single copy (they will have to pay for the patented material received from you passed down to their derivative work, although at a lesser rate).

    4. Re:Anybody want to venture a guess by vladkrupin · · Score: 1

      ... you mean, you still think they haven't been patented yet? I guess naive people leave longer. Can I have a sample of your DNA please?

      --

      Jobs? Which jobs?
    5. Re:Anybody want to venture a guess by vladkrupin · · Score: 1

      ... and, no, I am not intending to patent it, honest ...

      --

      Jobs? Which jobs?
    6. Re:Anybody want to venture a guess by deprecated · · Score: 2, Funny

      Your jeans are more likely to be pantsed.

    7. Re:Anybody want to venture a guess by xlsior · · Score: 1

      Well, at least it would take you very long to come up with 'prior art' in that case, now would it?

    8. Re:Anybody want to venture a guess by nasim · · Score: 1

      don't you mean venter a guess?

      --

      For great justice take off every sig.

    9. Re:Anybody want to venture a guess by packeteer · · Score: 2

      A better question to ask is when they will FINISH pattenting our genes. Quite a few already have been but not all yet.

      --
      unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
    10. Re:Anybody want to venture a guess by TummyX · · Score: 1, Funny

      all your base-pairs are belong to us!

    11. Re:Anybody want to venture a guess by micromoog · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      I thought it was funny. But I don't have any mod points.

  2. Of course... by JoshMKiV · · Score: 1

    I know I'd want to know, but what if you find out something that you can't do anything about? Maybe I don't want to know... Good thing I can't afford it.

  3. Like PT Barnum said by rimcrazy · · Score: 4, Funny

    A sucker is born every minute....

    --
    "TV, a medium as it is neither rare nor well done." Ernie Kovacs
    1. Re:Like PT Barnum said by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, like the suckers who believe that Islam is actually a religion of peace

      Sorry, you lost me at this point.

      If this line of your post had anything to do with the topic I might have read it. Try your Trolls with an on-topic opener next time.

    2. Re:Like PT Barnum said by powerlinekid · · Score: 2

      Actually David Hannum said that about PT Barnum. It all had to do with the "stone giant" that was found. The best part is when they wouldn't sell it to Barnum (or lease it), Barnum made a copy of it and said that his was the original. The link is found here, its actually a pretty humorous read.

      --

      can't sleep slashdot will eat me
    3. Re:Like PT Barnum said by bytesmythe · · Score: 2

      Soon it'll be "A sucker is CLONED every minute."

      --
      bytesmythe
      Hypocrisy is the resin that holds the plywood of society together.
      -- Scott Meyer
    4. Re:Like PT Barnum said by packeteer · · Score: 2

      I dont think they are suckers. When you are that rich its worth 10x times that ammount to keep yourself healthy. Personally if i could pay that much i would if it would even give me a small cahnce of not getting as sick.

      --
      unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
    5. Re:Like PT Barnum said by machine+of+god · · Score: 1

      ma ma

    6. Re:Like PT Barnum said by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And at what interval will a sucker that will have cancer or alzheimers be born?

      Actually that exact statement is why I hate marketing. Any product that would really improve your life is good!

    7. Re:Like PT Barnum said by fain0v · · Score: 1

      These people are not suckers. Saying these people are suckers is like saying you were a sucker to buy a computer this year, when next year they will be cheaper and faster. In the end, everyone will get their genome sequenced if they want. It will at ther VERY LEAST help predict what diseases you might end up with. I work in a genomics lab where we are trying to figure out which genes are responsible for protecting you from oxidative stress. If I knew that I had mutations in some of the genes that we were studying, I would be A HELL of a lot more careful about exposing myself to carcinogens that I knew I was not as sufficiently protected against as a wild-type person. As soon as we finish the genomics work, and annotating the genome, then the information will really be useful.

  4. Wow by SargeZT · · Score: 0

    What implicatiosn could this have, thoughts?

    --
    And why did you staple the trout to the RAM?
  5. Why so expensive? by Pupp3tM · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm sure it's not that easy to map someone's genes, but hundreds of thousands of dollars? They'd better tell me what kind of cancer I'll get, and when, for that much.

    --
    "Time is an illusion.
    Lunchtime doubly so."
    -Douglas Adams

    David Borowitz
    1. Re:Why so expensive? by Rich0 · · Score: 5, Informative
      I haven't been staying current in the field, but sequencing 4 billion bases of DNA is a LOT! Those costs are not really outrageous when you break them down.

      A typical sequencing reaction is good for about 600 bases (well, that actually is a high-end number - but I think Celera has figured things out well enough to make that regularly). Figure you have to sequence at least 12 billion bases since you have to have some overlap on all the fragments in order to assemble them into a singe genome - 3x overcoverage is a very generous estimage. So 12E9 / 600 = 2E7 reactions. Assume you can do one in two hours (which is probably a bit fast) - that means time for 84 reactions in series in one week (not counting the time it takes to assemble it all - corellating all those sequences takes a LOT of CPU). So - 2E7/84 = 238,095 reactions running in parallel at all times. A $100k sequencer can do about 64 at once.

      I am a biochemist - but I've been out of the field for about three years. So those are ballpark estimates based on where things were going back then. As I see it - they would need to commit $372M in capital to get an earnings of $650k per week - a 9% return on capital, and I didn't even figure in the cost of the reagents and all the robotics it takes to prep the samples, let alone the janitor that sweeps the floors at night. Now, if there has been a 10-100x increase in sequencing throughput in the last year or two I could believe that this is feasible, but it seems a bit far-fetched. Definitely a Craig Ventner idea...

      Then again, that people are even talking about this is very amazing. Keep in mind that only a few years ago they were expecting that the Human Genome still would be undone today - they've been working on it since the '80s. Craig came in and said he'd beat the NIH to the punch by a few years - they changed their methods to come in at a close tie. Now we're talking about being able to do the whole thing in a week. A few years ago the first bacteria was sequenced at less than 1 million bases - and that was BIG news - it took years of work if I recall correctly. At the peak of the Human Genome race Celera was doing one of those each day and then some - mostly because of an ENORMOUS investment of capital as well as a few technology advances.

      This makes me wonder if they will make the customers sign a release to giving Ventner access to statistical data within their genome. One question the completed Human Genome did not answer is how genes vary from person to person - and the only way to answer that question is to sequence lots of genomes. If Ventner can get others to pay for the work and then patent the results that would certainly be a good business move.

    2. Re:Why so expensive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
      The article mentions a critical point:

      ...scientists know the genetic abnormalities associated with only a few dozen diseases, but it pointed out thousands more were expected to be discovered in the coming decades...

      This is key. Ignoring all junk DNA, the extreme majority of our genomes is identical. Most of the differences are just occasional single base changes ("single nucleotide polymorphism" = SNP). Most of these SNPs code for nondisease traits like hair color.

      Finding disease SNPs is a *huge* job and has only really begun. It requires lots of hands-on science and genetics research; it's not a press GO and wait for an answer problem.

      The other critical factoid is that sequencing a genome will get cheaper over time. So, today a foolish rich person can spend a lot of money and know their genome, but do little with the data. Or, a smart person can wait five years, sequence their genome more cheaply, and understand much more.

    3. Re:Why so expensive? by Animats · · Score: 2
      I'm amazed that they can do it in a week, in a facility which they say cost about US $40 million to build. That's a lot of chemistry.

      On the other hand, correlating the sequences shouldn't be too bad computationally, now that there's an overall map to fit them to. Building the initial map from pieces was a harder job.

      Having full sequences of a number of individuals for comparison is going to be very interesting. Now there's something to compare.

    4. Re:Why so expensive? by Gerry+Gleason · · Score: 2, Insightful
      This makes me wonder if they will make the customers sign a release to giving Ventner access to statistical data within their genome. One question the completed Human Genome did not answer is how genes vary from person to person - and the only way to answer that question is to sequence lots of genomes. If Ventner can get others to pay for the work and then patent the results that would certainly be a good business move.

      Well, yes, this gets to the heart of the matter. Now that they have sequenced the whole thing for at least one human, the real interesting question is how it varies, and then of course how those variations relate to physical traits, diseases, resistence to disease, and so on. I'm sure they want access to the whole thing, not just the statistics. Once you have enough of them, you can start to map variations.

      One thing that I'm a little unclear on from the reports. Are they actually sequencing the whole thing, or just the sections that are parts of genes (i.e. code for proteins). I always understood it to be the former, including all the vast areas that do not code for anything (that they know of). I've always been curious to know if these areas code for other things.

      It's not such a stretch to immagine that these areas contain what we engineers would call "out of band" data that could relate to developmental sequencing or even generational memory (ok, maybe that's a stretch, but possible).

      Just by having the entire sequences of a large number of individuals would make some explorations of this data possible just as pure data. If you find out of band areas that are near identical in all people, that would be a strong indication that it codes for something important.

    5. Re:Why so expensive? by thogard · · Score: 1

      Last year I was looking at what it would cost to get part of a human's DNA extracted into human readable format to send off to the copyright office to mess with peoples heads when the patent fights get going. I found a few places that were doing samples for about $400 but I have no idea how many base pairs the would decode for that amount of money. It also appeared that there could be some major costs in preping the samples. It also looked like if you were in an lab in Calif, you could call up a company that would drive around and pick up your samples.

    6. Re:Why so expensive? by Rich0 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      This is a fascinating topic in itself - what does the DNA which doesn't code for protein do? The majority of your DNA doesn't actually code for protein.

      I am not sure what this new service is going to sequence - the articles suggest it is the whole shebang, but it could just be the expressed portion. If you start with mRNA instead of DNA when making up the clones that are sequenced, you end up just sequencing the coding portion of the genome - which is a LOT less work (again, by far most of your DNA does not code for protein). The actual Human Genome Project and the Celera effort sequenced the whole thing.

      We already know that some sequences of DNA are regulatory in nature - they are sequences that proteins bind to to increase to decrease the rate of gene expression. There are also sequences the DNA replication machinery bind to when copying the DNA. There are highly repetitve sequences which have more topological purposes - such as telomores and centromeres. (The method used to copy DNA cannot copy the very end of a strand, so your chromosomes have regions at the end called telomeres which are repetitive so that nothing "important" is ever near the end of a strand. Centromeres are the region at the center of a chromosome where two halves of an X-shaped replicated chromosome meet).

      I'm personally curious as to how all this "junk" DNA fits into DNA topology. Your DNA isn't just a big long line - it looks more like a tangled phone cord. The most tightly tanged portions are inaccessible by the machinery of the cell that expresses DNA - so it is essentially shut off. I wouldn't be surprised if the sequence coposition of DNA on a large scale influences the overall topology of a chromosome. Bottom line is that we are nowhere close to solving some of the most interesting questions of genetics.

      I wonder when the day will come that you can compile source into a genome just like you compile into machine language today. Imagine having a glibbacteria.so to reference which does all your organism housekeeping functions. You would just write some code to make an organism do something useful, make a statically-linked executable, and then input it into a as-yet-hypothetical large DNA synthesizer. Insert into cell and you have a new organism...

    7. Re:Why so expensive? by Gerry+Gleason · · Score: 1
      Interesting. I'd never read about that, but I expected that there would be start and end codes for genes as well as binding sites for control proteins. The binding of control proteins probably also relates to the topology stuff too. The bound proteins would influence how and where a strand folds and such.

      Of course, the computational problem of predicting or simulating how this happens is one of the very hard ones. As I understand it, it is complex enough just understanding how the proteins fold into the correct final form, and there are diseases that involve this not happening correctly for some proteins.

      A lot of people think that knowing the DNA sequence is like knowing the code for a program. Even if it was, you don't know the entry points very well, but even more significant is the large amount of state that is held in the topology in addition to the sequence. It is logical that it is this type of state that is central in the development of multi-cellulars, and cell differentiation as well.

      A few more generations of Moore's law and maybe we can start to attack the really interesting problems computationally, but for now we will have to be satisfied with baby steps. I have difficulty understanding the mentality of the commercial entities that are trying to capitalize on the little bits that are emerging now. This stuff screams for open collaborative research even more than computer technologies. Come to think of it, in the end it most of it will be computer technology, and mostly software at that.

    8. Re:Why so expensive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually the Genome is sequenced, and you are paying
      to have your DNA searched for SNPs(single Nucleotide Polymorphism). Pretty simple high throughput sort of stuff.

  6. Neat by whereiswaldo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That's neat. If you charge for a service, people line up for it.
    If the government mandated that you had to let them figure out your genome, people would scream.

    Are these millionaires naive enough to think that a copy of their data will not be kept somewhere?

    1. Re:Neat by ealar+dlanvuli · · Score: 2

      On slashdot, everything is a slipery slope

      (joke!! - sorta)

      --
      I live in a giant bucket.
    2. Re:Neat by bmetzler · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Are these millionaires naive enough to think that a copy of their data will not be kept somewhere?

      What difference does it make whether their data is kept somewhere or not? More to the point, wouldn't they want a copy of their dns on file somewhere?

      Imagine if I had a medical emergency. I'm going to die. Someone needs to make a life or death decision fast. It could save me or kill me. What to do, what to do, what to do? But if I had my DNA on file somewhere, just look it up, and the decision is made.

      I think that it should be mandatory for everyone to have their DNA on file. Imagine the benefit it would provide for not only medical emergencies, but even criminal investigations, and other things.

      -Brent
    3. Re:Neat by NASAKnight · · Score: 2
      Someone needs to make a life or death decision fast.

      Oh, and I'm sure that this information would be readily available to anyone that could save your life, and that they would be able to procure the information in time. If the decision is needed so fast, I'm doubtful anyone could get through all the red tape in time. And as for doctors ... they already have a chart of your medical history, what good is your DNA genome going to be?

      I think that it should be mandatory for everyone to have their DNA on file. Imagine the benefit it would provide

      Imagine the privacy it would violate. Countless examples of misuse of data have already been provided. Let's not give the government any more information than we have to, ok?

      --
      Fault loves the past, worry loves the future, but content enjoys the present.
    4. Re:Neat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ok. enlighten me on the "privacy" that would be violated. people like you constantly complain about this vague notion of "privacy being violated". give us examples of the sorts of things you fear, and then, perhaps, the rest of us unconvinced people might understand your point of view.

    5. Re:Neat by SlugLord · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter if there's a copy of your DNA on file anywhere... anyone with a tissue sample (and 600 grand) could presumably get a map of your genome.

      Your genome is probably of more use to you than to anyone else, particularly if you can patent yourself (then nobody could clone you, reproduce portions of your traits, etc., without your permission).

      Heck, I'd definitely want to know to what genetic diseases I were predisposed, particularly with the future possibility of retroviral engineering. Of course this does present the issue of potential genetic classism with those who can afford to make themselves in their own image and those who have to live the natural way, but that's far beyond the forseeable future.

    6. Re:Neat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More to the point, wouldn't they want a copy of their dns on file somewhere?

      Only if they wanted someone to look at their web site. ;)

    7. Re:Neat by whereiswaldo · · Score: 1
      It doesn't matter if there's a copy of your DNA on file anywhere... anyone with a tissue sample (and 600 grand) could presumably get a map of your genome.

      True, but they'd have to have REALLY deep pockets to get thousands or millions of peoples' genomes. And there's the small detail of the tissue sample. Not too hard, but again for thousands or millions of people - a huge feat.

      Why would someone conceivably want a huge database of genomes? That question almost answers itself. While one person's genome might be useless, aggregating is powerful. Rules could be built using aggregated data... and insurance companies could say "Well, Mr. Smith, our report shows you deviate by +0.53 from the standard norm for this gene. We won't be able to insure you, I'm afraid."

      And, as I have said, the best part is that these rich bastards will be footing the bill! Glorious.

    8. Re:Neat by evilviper · · Score: 2

      Let's try something:

      What if the police could enter your home, and search through your house at any time, for any reason...
      Imagine the benefit it would provide for not only medical emergencies, but even criminal investigations, and other things.

      Just as in your example, it would trample all over our freedoms, and provide practically no medical benefit. How is your DNA going to help a doctor determine that you were just bitten by a diamond back rattlesnake? How would your DNA help a doctor determine that you've been malnourished?

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    9. Re:Neat by SlugLord · · Score: 1

      Of course you can't just ban something simply because it could be used for ill. Surely, taking blood samples from people with polio could be used to infect other people, but it could also vaccinate a generation.

    10. Re:Neat by glwtta · · Score: 2
      But if I had my DNA on file somewhere, just look it up, and the decision is made.

      Look up what?? "Ah yes - AGACTGAC, at bp 180,023,982 on chromosome one, this one's a goner I'm afraid."

      The medical industry is nowhere near being able to meaningfuly apply individual sequencing data. Especially in any sort of "life or death decision, fast" situation.

      I get the odd feeling that most people here have a very vague idea of how these things work in real life...

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    11. Re:Neat by whereiswaldo · · Score: 1
      You do realize that there are other considerations here. "ill" and "good" are pretty general terms. What is the benefit? Is it worth risking the chance of ill-use?

      Take automobiles. They can kill, and they can be used for good. The good outweights the bad. What if every motor vehicle had a nuclear reactor in the trunk? If you crashed, an entire neighbourhood got nuked. Would the good outweigh the bad? No way.

      I think the good does not outweigh the bad in the case of genome profiling.

    12. Re:Neat by ivec · · Score: 1

      Imagine if I had a medical emergency. I'm going to die. Someone needs to make a life or death decision fast. It could save me or kill me. What to do, what to do, what to do? But if I had my DNA on file somewhere, just look it up, and the decision is made.

      Now imagine next time you need to contract health insurance, or get a job. How convenient is it for the other party to check up on your genetic risks and deficiencies !
      Its so helpful for them to know !

    13. Re:Neat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its so helpful for them to know !

      Just like drug testing.

    14. Re:Neat by E1v!$ · · Score: 1

      Just hope they don't store the copy on IBM 75GXP drives.

    15. Re:Neat by freaker_TuC · · Score: 1


      What difference does it make whether their data is kept somewhere or not? More to the point, wouldn't they want a copy of their dns on file somewhere?

      I don't want my master zone-dns files to be seen by anybody else but me :)

      Ain't mapping my network thru my dns :)

      (this is a joke - laugh!)

      --
      --- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
    16. Re:Neat by SlugLord · · Score: 1

      You're right. The possibility to cure every disease that ever has and ever will plague man is too small a benefit.

    17. Re:Neat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reminds me of those stupid profit trolls...

      1. Look up ailing patient's DNA.
      2. ???
      3. MIRACLE CURE!!

    18. Re:Neat by n3uxf · · Score: 1

      It becomes a problem if companies such as those in the insurance business get ahold of your data. They could quite possibly decide to cancel and/or deny you coverage because of diseases they may find in your DNA mapping. (I could be wrong, but I do beleive that there have already been instances of that.)

  7. well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure, i'd do it, I could finally have scientific evidence that 1000's of dollars spent on therapy has told me - I'm insane, at the GENETIC level!

  8. Well. by RaboKrabekian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While this is neat and all, and it was an inevitable use of the technology - does this scream "Gattaca" to anyone else? How long before we're doing this for unborn fetuses, and aborting those with serious defects? Or choosing among the choicest embryos?

    --
    "Moderate drinking can help prevent amputated limbs" -- Abigail Zuger, NYTimes, 12/31/02
    1. Re:Well. by delta407 · · Score: 5, Funny
      How long before we're doing this for unborn fetuses
      Yeah, but how many unborn fetuses have six hundred thousand dollars?
    2. Re:Well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thursday.

    3. Re:Well. by RaboKrabekian · · Score: 2

      Yeah, but how many unborn fetuses have six hundred thousand dollars?

      I think the correct question is how many unborn fetuses have parents with six hundred thousand dollars who'd want to make sure they have a perfect baby.

      --
      "Moderate drinking can help prevent amputated limbs" -- Abigail Zuger, NYTimes, 12/31/02
    4. Re:Well. by ollywompus · · Score: 1

      We already do things like this for unborn embryos. No, maybe we don't do it to the extent of gene mapping yet, but primitivly, things like amniocentesis are there to determine sex and illnesses that may come along with a fetus... and sometimes, that info is used for aborting an unwanted fetus. In China, for example, where male children are highly prized and female children lamented, this kind of thing is already happening, if not prevalent yet.

      Pretty much all gene mapping would do would refine this. Let's keep in mind however that gene mapping is not the same thing as gene manipulation... choosing to abort is possible, but Gattica like changes are not... at least as of yet.

      Stupidity should be as painful as Windows...

      --
      -- "We're only gonna die from our own arrogance, that's why we might as well take our time..." -Bad Religion
    5. Re:Well. by RaboKrabekian · · Score: 4, Informative

      choosing to abort is possible, but Gattica like changes are not... at least as of yet.

      You make a good point, but I just want to clarify something. If I remember correctly, they weren't changing anything in Gattaca. The process described worked by choosing the best of among many embryos - resulting in once in a lifetime "super babies" every time.

      The process of reading a gene map became so easy that the world descriminated heavily against people with any possible or probably defects, even if they hadn't manifested themselves.

      That's why this news is kind of frightening.

      --
      "Moderate drinking can help prevent amputated limbs" -- Abigail Zuger, NYTimes, 12/31/02
    6. Re:Well. by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      In developing nations as well as China and India, sonograms are used to sex the unborn children.

      I think I read that in India it's against the law now to do this for sexing to abort in the case of a female.

    7. Re:Well. by ollywompus · · Score: 1

      I haven't seen Gattaca in years... you're probably right, sorry 'bout that!

      --
      -- "We're only gonna die from our own arrogance, that's why we might as well take our time..." -Bad Religion
    8. Re:Well. by Buck2 · · Score: 1

      Just to state my opinion on this question, if anyone cares:

      I believe all parents should be able to perform any and all testing they desire on their unborn children. I also believe that parents should be allowed to abort any children they are dissatisfied with before the children are actually brought to term.

      --

      As my father lik@(munch munch)... ....
    9. Re:Well. by Surye · · Score: 1

      I know this may be over used, but this is slippery slope logic if I ever heard it. Every advancement in science doesn't lead to the extream. If we thought this, back when computers were first in development, we could have looked to movies about robots taking over the world, and stoped all computer advancement. Forsight is important, but assumtion is bad.

    10. Re:Well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well my parents bought a computer for $8000 in 1987

      today i can build a fast athlon for $500

      so you tell me how long it will take before there are parents with enough money to genetically map their fetuses.

    11. Re:Well. by DCowern · · Score: 1

      This smacks of arguments about evolution. This kind of artificial selection has been used for millenia to breed cats and dogs... maybe this is just how the human race will evolve to the next evolutionary plateau.

      Who says a race of rich, superhuman babies is a bad thing anyway. ;-)

    12. Re:Well. by jcam2 · · Score: 1

      And if people do use this technology to screen unborn children, so what? Is anyone being harmed if a couple choose to abort or not implant an embryo with a serious defect?

      It is already quite common to test for Down's Syndrome and other common congenital disorders using both non-generic (ultrasound) and genetic (amniocentis) methods. If something is detected, the parents can choose to abort and
      try again ..

    13. Re:Well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really now?

      Agriculture. Now, most of what I see lacks biological diversity. We've got farms of thousands of acres of monospecies. Meanwhile, human population took off, and we've destroyed millions of acres for fuel.

      Nukes. Cold war. Enough said.

      Medical advances. See our current nation's demographic. Abortion.

      Industrialization. Smell the smog. Global warming.

      etc. etc.

      We have lacked foresight for nearly 600 years. You think we're going to "discover" that now?

      Computers are still here. Robots will take over the world. Just as someday will drop a nuke to kill thousands--wait, we already did that...

      You want a big change? Wait until we start colonizing space en masse, and watch the political breakup from that. Gundam cartoons won't look the same.

    14. Re:Well. by Scrameustache · · Score: 2

      I was with right up until the word "dissatisfied".
      Abortion because you lnow your kid will be crippled is a good thing, abortion because you're trying to have green-eyed kids isn't.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    15. Re:Well. by Surye · · Score: 1

      Like I said, Foresight is important, and we need that. All those examples you gave(well, almost all) may have harmed some, but saved many. I may sound nieve, but you can't see ever advancement and expect the absolut worse. And to keep on topic, what exactly bad comes from predicting cancer and such faults pre-birth? I guess that leads to the question of "When is a human become a 'Human'", but if it can be found early, we can help prevent alot of suffering. I know some one with such bad downsydrome, that even his parents wish they hadn't brought him in the world, cause he only suffers.
      And about the space colonies and political break-up, I can't wait. We need something to spark a big enough change. Nothing can change in our current state, nothing of any true importance.

    16. Re:Well. by idontneedanickname · · Score: 1

      Well the use, maybe not of the technology, but this project is (i hope) to fund usefull research. And if some experience can be gained from mapping a few extra DNA's then so much the better.

    17. Re:Well. by 56ker · · Score: 0

      Anyway mapping the genes of a baby wouldn't make them perfect. This is just about finding out what someone's genes are - and possibly their susceptibility to a few diseases - that's all so far until more uncoding of the human genome gets done.

      The point is that armed with the knowledge of what diseases you are susceptible to you can change your lifestyle to make it unlikely you'll get them, take preventative medication in advance and you're far more likely to get an early diagnosis and effective treatment if you know what you're going to get (or likely to get) in advance.

    18. Re:Well. by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      Computers HAVE taken over the western world, too bad you missed it. They don't need to be robots, because they're already everywhere and networked.

      Mwuuuuhahahaha!

    19. Re:Well. by drudd · · Score: 2

      The only problem with self-selection like this is humans tend to select for silly and trivial traits... resulting in highly-arthritic and frankly pathetic breeds like the poodle.

      Doug

      --
      Venn ist das nurnstuck git und Slotermeyer? Ya! Beigerhund das oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
    20. Re:Well. by blincoln · · Score: 1

      Whats the difference?

      One strengthens the gene pool, the other doesn't.

      --
      "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    21. Re:Well. by RaboKrabekian · · Score: 2

      This kind of artificial selection has been used for millenia to breed cats and dogs... maybe this is just how the human race will evolve to the next evolutionary plateau.

      True, but the difference here is that nature was doing the selecting, not Joe Daddy who wants his son to be a pro basketball player. Which, by the way there isn't anything wrong with - of course parents want the best possible opportunities for their kids. If I had children I'm sure I'd want them to have the best possible tools for they're life.

      The point is, are we ready to grant this kind of power?

      Who says a race of rich, superhuman babies is a bad thing anyway. ;-)

      Amen, brother :)

      --
      "Moderate drinking can help prevent amputated limbs" -- Abigail Zuger, NYTimes, 12/31/02
    22. Re:Well. by wakeboard · · Score: 1

      What's wrong with choosing the best embryos? I know if I had the money I would go "GATTTICA" on my kids. Why should I? Why not make sure your kids have every possible advantage. Right now $600k is a little out of hand, then again the first computers cost this much and now they are $600.00 clams at Wal-Mart. Technology is always expensive at first and then becomes less expensive with time. Again I ask Why not make sure that your kids have all the advantages that u never had. Afraid to loss you job, by the time any of this could affect you, YOU WILL BE DEAD! It's got to start sometime, why not NOW?

    23. Re:Well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They spent $8K? Damn, they must have gone all out on the 40mb hard drive. 'Spose they ever filled it?

    24. Re:Well. by machine+of+god · · Score: 1

      we already pick the sperm that seem the strongest. Although by then I think it will go further than that. You engineer the fetus before it ever is created. Unless, of course, you can't afford it, in which case you may or may not end up with a defective child.

    25. Re:Well. by bakes · · Score: 2

      You are both right. Kind of. In Gattaca they chose the healthiest embryo, and implanted that one - but the others were left to die. This is not the same as abortion, since those embryos left to die may not have implanted or may have naturally aborted themselves anyway, but depending on your ethics/opinions on the matter it might be considered as just the same.

      --
      Ho! Haha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust!
    26. Re:Well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But maybe we'd get it right this time, using capitalist-market forces. Hopefully we'd all get huge b00bs or c0cks and tight stomachs and asses, and we'd be doin' it all the time, with everyone, and everyone will be happy feeling a constant orgasim.

    27. Re:Well. by paxil · · Score: 1

      No. Think again, it is much more complicated than that.

    28. Re:Well. by Malcontent · · Score: 1

      ironic that Hitler's supreme race will finally be developed in the US, the very country that fought him.

      --

      War is necrophilia.

    29. Re:Well. by Stuart+Gibson · · Score: 1

      What, Britain? France? Russia?

      Please try and remember the US only came in thinking they were the cavalry at the end of WWII. Not to mention you only got involved because of Japanese attacks. Yes, we're all very grateful for the support and no doubt helped end the war a lot quicker, but please stop thinking you were the only ones fighting.

      This message has been brought to you by the campaign for accurate history.

      Anyway, so I'm not totally OT, this should be a much quicker way of achieving the goal, not having to worry about all that nasty specific breeding programs.

      Goblin

      --
      It's all fun and games until a 200' robot dinosaur shows up and trashes Neo-Tokyo... Again
    30. Re:Well. by Detritus · · Score: 3, Informative

      Eugenics was a popular political/social movement in the United States before World War II. Margaret Sanger, one of the founders of Planned Parenthood, was an advocate for eugenics. The movement never recovered from the backlash caused by the atrocities committed in Nazi Germany.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    31. Re:Well. by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

      Your signature Bill Gates... What a co-incidence, he owns a gene company for years :))

    32. Re:Well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Calling Margaret Sanger an advocate for eugenics shows your ignorance. Please stop indulging in pro-life propaganda and check your sources. A good place to start is the Planned Parenthood web site, but of course you'll want to do some extra reading from third party sources you can trust, now won't you? Here's the Planned Parenthood's site which you have no reason to believe.

    33. Re:Well. by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

      "One strengthens the gene pool, the other doesn't."

      Whoa? Are we creating aryan race here? Last time I checked, nature was taking such decisions.

      Strengthening gene pool, yea right

    34. Re:Well. by danbeck · · Score: 0

      We do this now. There are several pre-natal tests that are optionally performed on the fetus to determine it's likely hood to have certain diseases or birth defects. My wife and I refused to have the test done for both of our daughters. We didn't want to know if our child would be born with any problems and we didn't want to even consider the possiblity of not having the child, known defect or not.

      In any case... we abort unborn babies now out of pure convenience.. what difference would it make to the selfish asshole who would kill their child because they felt inconvenienced?

    35. Re:Well. by danbeck · · Score: 0

      I agree, what on earth is the difference? Are you saying that all handicapped people on this planet really shouldn't be here?

      You people have no soul. You are probably more worried about some stupid endangered species than you are another human's life.

    36. Re:Well. by kasparov · · Score: 1

      Why let randmom chance decide? If nature got this far through unintelligent chance, just think how far we could go if we directed evolution through intelligent consideration (which, btw, we are doing anyway by not leaving our physically challenged to die shortly after birth like many animal species do).

      --
      There's no place I can be, since I found Serenity.
    37. Re:Well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I love it how all you creeps come out of the woodwork with your comparisons to apocalyptic literature and film whenever one of these stories come up. "Does this remind anyone of Gattaca?" "Isn't this just like 1984?" "Don't those hamburgers at McDonald's remind you of soylent green?" Take a breather for Christ's sake. It'll do you good.

    38. Re:Well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're confusing WWI and WWII.
      We came in at the end of WWI in 1917 to finish off what you obviously could not.
      We entered WWII and finished a war you would have lost either to Germany or Russia. For all we know you might be speaking Japanese if we did not intervene.

      We saved your fucking life, your culture and your history and you repay us with snide remarks and stupid posturing. Just admit we saved your ass and rebuilt your pathetic hellhole country. Our ancestors left your shithole for the new world and we are glad they did. You eurotrash scumbags need to get up off your socialist methadone filled asses and do some fucking work!

  9. Be that as it may.. by fadeaway · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ..there's still no gene for fate.

    1. Re:Be that as it may.. by zapod4 · · Score: 1
      But isn't fate the result of cause and effect? Natural events cause other events to happen and your genes decide how you will act. Other peoples' genes determine how they will act, causing others to act, &cetera.

      Personality traits that are not part of your DNA are caused by things that have happened to you by other peoples' forced will of their genes and by the cause and effect of natural occurrences.

      Free will doesn't exist. Randomness doesn't exist. Fate doesn't exist.

    2. Re:Be that as it may.. by 3141 · · Score: 2

      Randomness doesn't exist

      Tell that to a decaying atom.

    3. Re:Be that as it may.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Free will doesn't exist. Randomness doesn't
      > exist. Fate doesn't exist.

      Ahh, but it was your destiny to say those very words on this day.;-)

    4. Re:Be that as it may.. by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      This pseudo-mystical shit flies here? I thought most of the people here believed in science.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    5. Re:Be that as it may.. by zapod4 · · Score: 1
      >Ahh, but it was your destiny to say those very words on this day.;-)

      It was my destiny because the slashdot editors' genes thought that this was interesting and because I am genetically predisposed to reading slashdot. Then my genes took this input and my mind processed it in a formulated way and submitted the output for posting.

    6. Re:Be that as it may.. by fadeaway · · Score: 1

      Relax.. it's a quote from Gattaca.

      At any rate, I can't wait for the day when science and the unexplained truly cross paths. Humble pie futures will go through the roof due to people like you.

    7. Re:Be that as it may.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting. A true scientist knows that even concepts such as fate are possible? What is your REAL discipline?

    8. Re:Be that as it may.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excellent! So, then, if I come and brutally murder you, I'm obviously innocent of any crime - for it was my genes that caused your death, not me!

      And the above is just as much a line of crap as the religious nuts who insist everything is part of their imaginary friend's master plan.

      So, is it fate, destiny, genes or divine intervention which just caused me to pause and take a large gulp of coffee?

      None of the above, which are all just cop-outs for people who do not wish to take responsibility for their own actions.

    9. Re:Be that as it may.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think both of you are talking about the same thing.

      It is cause and effect, chemistry and/or randomness that causes the murder, and its' the same cause and effect that cause the murderer to get hung to a tree. Stuff like "people" and "revenge" and "responsibility" are all abstracted out of those fundimentals. They are just as real though.

      I mean, a table is real, right? We can reduce it to four legs and a flat surface, and talk about the properties of wood and so forth and where the table begins and ends and what if you use the table for something other than stuff tables are normally used for, etc.

      But all that doesn't make it any less of a table, especially if you have dinner on it.

      Similarly I think that the world being reduced to cause/effect/randomness/etc is compatible with the idea of "people" and "choices" and "responsibility".. it's just an abstracted concept a few levels up from mere mechanics, but that's not saying it doesn't exist or isn't important.

      Cheers.

    10. Re:Be that as it may.. by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      Relax.. it's a quote from Gattaca.

      Heh, OK. Someone mod me down. :)

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
  10. Top-secret information? by wmspringer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now here's something you don't want your insurance company getting their hands on....

    Increased risk of cancer? Sorry, not covered...

    Increased risk of alcoholism? Those driver's insurance premiums just doubled..

    1. Re:Top-secret information? by theRiallatar · · Score: 1

      I find it unlikely that that will happen. There will basically be two groups of people. Those predisposed to have the illness, and those predisposed not to have the illness. Those who there's an extreme likelihood of getting it will choose not to have insurance, because they're going to pay out the nose for it anyhow. Those with very little chance of getting the illness, will choose not to have insurance, because they're going to be paying for something their DNA says they won't get.

      Either way, the insurance company loses.

    2. Re:Top-secret information? by cbnewman · · Score: 1
      This is not intended to be a troll in any way, but here goes anyway.

      It could be just as catastrophic to allow individuals to have access to their genetic information but prevent insurance compaines from sharing in that knowledge.

      Insurance is all about risk prediction and classification based on likelihood of a given outcome (death, severe illness). Imagine the case where a person discoveres they have a genetic condition (say, Huntington's to temporarily ignore the penetrance issue). She will insure herself out the wazoo, making sure she will have access to academic research centers and expensive drug coverage. Since the insurance company is ignorant of her underlying risk, they will incorrectly classify her with the rest of the population. It won't too many people to do this before they get sick and drain the resources of the group, leading to a global rise in premiums. The underlying problem will still exist as long as people can exploit this disparity in information and the cycle will continue.

      The real question is, "How likely is a person to develop a condition based on their genotype? (i.e. What is the penetrance of a given genotype?) How should this information be used when classifying risk for insurance underwriting?"

      It's a sticky problem, and one we'll have to confront sooner rather than later...

    3. Re:Top-secret information? by Ichijo · · Score: 0

      To keep insurance companies from discriminating based on your genes, we would need a consumer protection law that would mandate that health insurance providers must provide health insurance at an equal cost to all persons of a giving age and gender.

      Even better, add some conditions. For example, if your genes indicate you have a higher risk of cancer, you must go in for regular exams (covered under the insurance plan, of course) and abstain from smoking in order to qualify for those equal rates.

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    4. Re:Top-secret information? by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      (* To keep insurance companies from discriminating based on your genes, we would need a consumer protection law that would mandate that health insurance providers must provide health insurance at an equal cost to all persons of a giving age and gender. *)

      What keeps a potential employer from sending your dandruff scrapts to an offshore lab and finding out all kinds of dirt on ya? For example, predisposition to mental illnes, health risks that may mean lots of absenses, and who knows what kind of personality factors they will be able to find someday.

    5. Re:Top-secret information? by Gerry+Gleason · · Score: 1
      This is hardly news or interesting. Some people are more likely to suffer from certain conditions, and you can know about this from family history or DNA.

      In my opinion, this is a problem with insurance companies, not with having information. The bottom line is that insurance works best when it protects us against unknowable random events, and this is absolutely not the case with health care.

      This just gets worse as the science gets better. Of course, not everyone has in the world has this problem. At least it is better than not having access to health care, but I digress.

    6. Re:Top-secret information? by bulchanm · · Score: 1

      Insurance Companies already discriminate against particular groups when setting insurance premiums. E.G.Young drivers in the state of NYC Pay a much higher auto preimum than most, this is discrimnation based on age and location in action.
      Using genetic information when doing risk-evaluation merely would put in another level of discrimination into the current system.

      Also one has to take into account Insurance companies are kept in check by the laws of the land .For Example Ethnicity/Color of Skin/Religion cannot be take into account when evaluating risk for an individual. Similarly it could be possible to outlaw genetic profiling in calculating insurance premiums.

  11. "MAPS TO CELEBRITIES GENES.....$2.00" by Thatto · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Ever wonder which hollywood stars and starlets share common sequences?" Oprah's grandmother's dirty little secret!" "THE RICH AND POWERFUL: Genetically Inclined?"

    no thanks

    1. Re:"MAPS TO CELEBRITIES GENES.....$2.00" by evilhayama · · Score: 1

      Closely followed by: Clone your own supermodel! download someone's genetics from a warez site, feed it into your personal cone-o-matic, and bingo: instant teen film.

    2. Re:"MAPS TO CELEBRITIES GENES.....$2.00" by Tackhead · · Score: 2
      > "Ever wonder which hollywood stars and starlets share common sequences?" Oprah's grandmother's dirty little secret!" "THE RICH AND POWERFUL: Genetically Inclined?"
      >
      >no thanks

      OK, I wouldn't pay $600K for it, but I'd pay $60 to get a few gigs of data and type:

      $ cp /home/Tackhead/genemap /home/h0tbabe/genemap

      As a geek and heavy Slashdot reader, I'm reasonably confident that this is the only way my genes will ever propagate.

      (Hell, this is the only kind of gene propagation I'm interested in. Who the fsck wants to deal with a squalling brat with p00py diapers when there's fragging to be done, dammit? Think lifestyle issues, man, lifestyle! :-)

  12. If I had $621,500... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd buy something else... like a dozen dancing monkeys, a really awesome lawnmower, a whole lot of pudding, or maybe my own zombie slave. But, my own personal gene map, come on, that's just silly! Talk about wasting money.

    1. Re:If I had $621,500... by lingqi · · Score: 2
      I'd buy something else... like a dozen dancing monkeys, a really awesome lawnmower, a whole lot of pudding, or maybe my own zombie slave.

      A Dozen Dancing monkeys? zombie slave? that's rediculous... oh wait...

      (for a little off-subject:) my 300th comment! jesus christ i wasted a lot of time on /.

      --

      My life in the land of the rising sun.

    2. Re:If I had $621,500... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      (20:40:30) MovieDudeTX: have u been harassing FoxY ChicK 8403?
      (20:40:38) Gordon Shanley: Nope.
      (20:40:45) MovieDudeTX: fucking liar
      (20:41:01) Gordon Shanley: I'm not harassing.
      (20:41:06) Gordon Shanley: Are you named Glenn?
      (20:41:17) MovieDudeTX: no im not named Gleen
      (20:41:19) MovieDudeTX: *Glenn
      (20:41:25) Gordon Shanley: Oh.
      (20:41:40) MovieDudeTX: have u been talking to FoxY ChicK 8403?
      (20:41:44) Gordon Shanley: Yes.
      (20:41:46) Gordon Shanley: How about you?
      (20:41:54) MovieDudeTX: yeah
      (20:41:59) MovieDudeTX: she said u were bothering here
      (20:42:00) MovieDudeTX: *her
      (20:42:06) Gordon Shanley: Am I still bothering?
      (20:42:21) MovieDudeTX: how did u get her sn
      (20:42:27) Gordon Shanley: My subprofile.
      (20:42:35) Gordon Shanley: But I took it down since then.
      (20:42:37) MovieDudeTX: do u know her?
      (20:42:49) Gordon Shanley: I'm not sure.
      (20:42:55) Gordon Shanley: Do you?
      (20:43:20) MovieDudeTX: yes I do
      (20:43:30) Gordon Shanley: How old are you?
      (20:43:44) MovieDudeTX: u first
      (20:43:58) Gordon Shanley: You can ask Heather how old I am.
      (20:44:41) MovieDudeTX: where do u know her from?
      (20:44:56) Gordon Shanley: I don't know, she was in my suprofile.
      (20:47:35) MovieDudeTX: ive got a copy of the convo u had with her so if i dont confess to bothering her, im
      (20:47:44) MovieDudeTX: *if YOU dont confess
      (20:48:01) Gordon Shanley: She didn't tell me I was being bothersome. You sound like a control freak.
      (20:48:20) MovieDudeTX: you've got one last chance before I report you to AOL
      (20:48:48) Gordon Shanley: One last chance for what? I don't understand what you're asking me.
      (20:49:09) MovieDudeTX: LEAVE HER ALONE OR I WILL REPORT YOU TO AOL. I HAVE A COPY OF THE CONVO
      (20:49:26) Gordon Shanley: Why didn't you just say it like that to start with?
      (20:49:46) MovieDudeTX: perhaps i didnt make myself clear
      (20:49:54) Gordon Shanley: That would be a safe assumption.
      (20:50:03) MovieDudeTX: LEAVE HER ALONE OR I WILL REPORT YOU TO AOL. I HAVE A COPY OF THE CONVO
      (20:50:09) MovieDudeTX: THIS IS YOUR LAST CHANCE
      (20:50:34) Gordon Shanley: I'm not even saying something to her anymore. Are you some kind of moron?
      (20:50:53) MovieDudeTX: u leaving her alone?
      (20:51:33) Gordon Shanley: Yes, of course. I have manners, unlike you.
      (20:51:44) MovieDudeTX: allright then im not gonna report you
      (20:52:38) Gordon Shanley: But I wonder why she couldn't just ask me to leave her alone. It seems awfully weak for someone else to have to say that.
      (20:53:00) MovieDudeTX: maybe u were scaring her? ever think of that
      (20:54:01) Gordon Shanley: No. And if I was, she should just ask me to leave her alone, instead of being spineless about it.
      (20:54:16) MovieDudeTX: just dont talk to her again
      (20:54:31) MovieDudeTX: because if u do and i hear about it, im reporting you to AOL, you got that?
      (20:54:35) Gordon Shanley: I won't unless she IMs me first.
      (20:54:42) Gordon Shanley: And you're a total control freak, man.
      (20:55:03) MovieDudeTX: no im not a total control freak, man.
      (20:55:25) Gordon Shanley: Then what are you, just some kind of Texan redneck?
      (20:55:41) MovieDudeTX: i dont live in the fucking sticks
      (20:55:56) MovieDudeTX: and where r u from
      (20:55:59) Gordon Shanley: Yeah, you're not good enough for that.
      (20:56:05) Gordon Shanley: I'm from Wichita, Kansas.
      (20:56:13) MovieDudeTX: oh a kansas farmboy
      (20:56:18) MovieDudeTX: now whos the redneck
      (20:56:24) Gordon Shanley: You need food.
      (20:56:37) Gordon Shanley: You don't need guns to shoot down traffic lights.
      (20:56:58) MovieDudeTX: I happen to live in a very affluent area
      (20:57:14) Gordon Shanley: That doesn't mean you're not a total idiot.
      (20:57:24) Gordon Shanley: Now here's how I would have approached the situation:
      (20:57:33) MovieDudeTX: but at least im not a poor hick like u
      (20:57:59) Gordon Shanley: "Hi, my friend FoxYChicK8403 would prefer not to talk to you. Could you please leave her alone? Thanks."
      (20:58:16) MovieDudeTX: well that wouldnt have worked with a fucker like u
      (20:58:20) Gordon Shanley: See, it works much better that way. You rich boys have no manners.
      (20:58:31) MovieDudeTX: Gordon Shanley>!-- (8:58:25 PM)--> : Hi, my friend FoxYChicK8403 would prefer not to talk to you. Could you please leave her alone? Thanks.
      (20:58:32) Gordon Shanley: It certainly would have worked.
      (20:58:43) Gordon Shanley: Sure.
      (20:58:45) Gordon Shanley: See?
      (20:59:05) MovieDudeTX: fucking dickhead
      (20:59:12) Gordon Shanley: Sounds like an apt description of yourself.
      (20:59:27) MovieDudeTX: least im not a kansas redneck
      (20:59:36) MovieDudeTX: i live in an affluent suburban area
      (21:00:15) Gordon Shanley: Yeah, keep telling yourself that's worth something.
      (21:00:29) Gordon Shanley: You're probably the stupidest person I've ever talked to in my whole life. Congratulations.
      (21:00:58) Gordon Shanley: And they need servants in affluent areas. Although I'm sure you haven't worked a minute in your life.
      (21:02:29) MovieDudeTX logged in.
      (21:03:32) Gordon Shanley: Check out my new profile.
      (21:04:16) MovieDudeTX: thats it
      (21:04:23) MovieDudeTX: ur gonna hear from aol real soon
      (21:04:40) Gordon Shanley: You only deserve it. Get a sense of humor.
      (21:07:06) MovieDudeTX: u know what?
      (21:07:25) MovieDudeTX: meet a friend of mine
      (21:07:25) MovieDudeTX: his name is BLOCK
      (21:07:32) MovieDudeTX logged out.

    3. Re:If I had $621,500... by shorty1800 · · Score: 1

      OK hi my name is heather there is a confo that is very rude and I would like for it to be taken off please cause its very disturbing to me and my friend i would like this to be taken off very soon please of the site completly thank you y Anonymous Coward on Monday September 23, @09:25PM (#4316758) (20:40:30) MovieDudeTX: have u been harassing FoxY ChicK 8403? (20:40:38) Gordon Shanley: Nope. (20:40:45) MovieDudeTX: fucking liar (20:41:01) Gordon Shanley: I'm not harassing. (20:41:06) Gordon Shanley: Are you named Glenn? (20:41:17) MovieDudeTX: no im not named Gleen (20:41:19) MovieDudeTX: *Glenn (20:41:25) Gordon Shanley: Oh. (20:41:40) MovieDudeTX: have u been talking to FoxY ChicK 8403? (20:41:44) Gordon Shanley: Yes. (20:41:46) Gordon Shanley: How about you? (20:41:54) MovieDudeTX: yeah (20:41:59) MovieDudeTX: she said u were bothering here (20:42:00) MovieDudeTX: *her (20:42:06) Gordon Shanley: Am I still bothering? (20:42:21) MovieDudeTX: how did u get her sn (20:42:27) Gordon Shanley: My subprofile. (20:42:35) Gordon Shanley: But I took it down since then. (20:42:37) MovieDudeTX: do u know her? (20:42:49) Gordon Shanley: I'm not sure. (20:42:55) Gordon Shanley: Do you? (20:43:20) MovieDudeTX: yes I do (20:43:30) Gordon Shanley: How old are you? (20:43:44) MovieDudeTX: u first (20:43:58) Gordon Shanley: You can ask Heather how old I am. (20:44:41) MovieDudeTX: where do u know her from? (20:44:56) Gordon Shanley: I don't know, she was in my suprofile. (20:47:35) MovieDudeTX: ive got a copy of the convo u had with her so if i dont confess to bothering her, im (20:47:44) MovieDudeTX: *if YOU dont confess (20:48:01) Gordon Shanley: She didn't tell me I was being bothersome. You sound like a control freak. (20:48:20) MovieDudeTX: you've got one last chance before I report you to AOL (20:48:48) Gordon Shanley: One last chance for what? I don't understand what you're asking me. (20:49:09) MovieDudeTX: LEAVE HER ALONE OR I WILL REPORT YOU TO AOL. I HAVE A COPY OF THE CONVO (20:49:26) Gordon Shanley: Why didn't you just say it like that to start with? (20:49:46) MovieDudeTX: perhaps i didnt make myself clear (20:49:54) Gordon Shanley: That would be a safe assumption. (20:50:03) MovieDudeTX: LEAVE HER ALONE OR I WILL REPORT YOU TO AOL. I HAVE A COPY OF THE CONVO (20:50:09) MovieDudeTX: THIS IS YOUR LAST CHANCE (20:50:34) Gordon Shanley: I'm not even saying something to her anymore. Are you some kind of moron? (20:50:53) MovieDudeTX: u leaving her alone? (20:51:33) Gordon Shanley: Yes, of course. I have manners, unlike you. (20:51:44) MovieDudeTX: allright then im not gonna report you (20:52:38) Gordon Shanley: But I wonder why she couldn't just ask me to leave her alone. It seems awfully weak for someone else to have to say that. (20:53:00) MovieDudeTX: maybe u were scaring her? ever think of that (20:54:01) Gordon Shanley: No. And if I was, she should just ask me to leave her alone, instead of being spineless about it. (20:54:16) MovieDudeTX: just dont talk to her again (20:54:31) MovieDudeTX: because if u do and i hear about it, im reporting you to AOL, you got that? (20:54:35) Gordon Shanley: I won't unless she IMs me first. (20:54:42) Gordon Shanley: And you're a total control freak, man. (20:55:03) MovieDudeTX: no im not a total control freak, man. (20:55:25) Gordon Shanley: Then what are you, just some kind of Texan redneck? (20:55:41) MovieDudeTX: i dont live in the fucking sticks (20:55:56) MovieDudeTX: and where r u from (20:55:59) Gordon Shanley: Yeah, you're not good enough for that. (20:56:05) Gordon Shanley: I'm from Wichita, Kansas. (20:56:13) MovieDudeTX: oh a kansas farmboy (20:56:18) MovieDudeTX: now whos the redneck (20:56:24) Gordon Shanley: You need food. (20:56:37) Gordon Shanley: You don't need guns to shoot down traffic lights. (20:56:58) MovieDudeTX: I happen to live in a very affluent area (20:57:14) Gordon Shanley: That doesn't mean you're not a total idiot. (20:57:24) Gordon Shanley: Now here's how I would have approached the situation: (20:57:33) MovieDudeTX: but at least im not a poor hick like u (20:57:59) Gordon Shanley: "Hi, my friend FoxYChicK8403 would prefer not to talk to you. Could you please leave her alone? Thanks." (20:58:16) MovieDudeTX: well that wouldnt have worked with a fucker like u (20:58:20) Gordon Shanley: See, it works much better that way. You rich boys have no manners. (20:58:31) MovieDudeTX: Gordon Shanley>!-- (8:58:25 PM)--> : Hi, my friend FoxYChicK8403 would prefer not to talk to you. Could you please leave her alone? Thanks. (20:58:32) Gordon Shanley: It certainly would have worked. (20:58:43) Gordon Shanley: Sure. (20:58:45) Gordon Shanley: See? (20:59:05) MovieDudeTX: fucking dickhead (20:59:12) Gordon Shanley: Sounds like an apt description of yourself. (20:59:27) MovieDudeTX: least im not a kansas redneck (20:59:36) MovieDudeTX: i live in an affluent suburban area (21:00:15) Gordon Shanley: Yeah, keep telling yourself that's worth something. (21:00:29) Gordon Shanley: You're probably the stupidest person I've ever talked to in my whole life. Congratulations. (21:00:58) Gordon Shanley: And they need servants in affluent areas. Although I'm sure you haven't worked a minute in your life. (21:02:29) MovieDudeTX logged in. (21:03:32) Gordon Shanley: Check out my new profile. (21:04:16) MovieDudeTX: thats it (21:04:23) MovieDudeTX: ur gonna hear from aol real soon (21:04:40) Gordon Shanley: You only deserve it. Get a sense of humor. (21:07:06) MovieDudeTX: u know what? (21:07:25) MovieDudeTX: meet a friend of mine (21:07:25) MovieDudeTX: his name is BLOCK (21:07:32) MovieDudeTX logged out.

  13. Interesting, but.. by JJAnon · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Like the article says, there are no real practical uses for this. All that you get out of it is a long sequence of ATGCs which are pretty useless. I say useless because genes only show a predisposition towards certain diseases, but do not guarantee actually GETTING the disease. A complete health checkup would probably accomplish the same, at a drastically lower cost.

    1. Re:Interesting, but.. by Dthoma · · Score: 2
      "Like the article says, there are no real practical uses for this."


      Except suckering rich people out of $600K and getting to get your own private copy of their DNA.

      --

      Note to M1-ers: a curt but otherwise insightful message is not "Flamebait" or "Troll".

  14. Discoveries? by Galahad2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What happens if this guy finds the cure for cancer in your DNA? Is it your property? Same goes for lesser things, like a really good example of a gene. Is furthering the scientific community not optional?

    And the same question goes for if someone gets your DNA from a hair you dropped, and makes some discovery through that. What rights do you have over your own genetic makeup?

    1. Re:Discoveries? by mikey13 · · Score: 0

      What happens if someone has inspiration by looking at your face and makes millions of dollars? Is that your money?

    2. Re:Discoveries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > And the same question goes for if someone gets
      > your DNA from a hair you dropped, and makes some
      > discovery through that. What rights do you have
      > over your own genetic makeup?
      >
      And what happens if someone takes a nude picture of your sister without her permission and makes a million from it? Does he own the pictures and the money? What rights does your sister have?

      There's nothing new under the sun. You can dress up these "new tech issues" in different ways, but it all boils down the the same thing. The fundamentals of freedom, fairness, decency, and respect don't change.

    3. Re:Discoveries? by efatapo · · Score: 1

      Ok, you can't just "find the cure for cancer" in anyones DNA. Just doesn't work like that. One individual DNA might offer a hint of evidence towards something that might lead to a development in the cure, but it's nothing that simple. Trust me, I spend 40 hours a week doing it. I *wish* it were that simple. :) DNA sequencing is cake, radiosensitization, clonogenecity, western blots, immunoprecipitations. Dang, just buy yourself a sequencer if it were that easy... ;)

    4. Re:Discoveries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you work for the riaa?

    5. Re:Discoveries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what happens if someone takes a nude picture of your sister without her permission and makes a million from it?

      Dude, if you could make a million dollars with one of her pictures, you'd deserve it.

    6. Re:Discoveries? by Dthoma · · Score: 3, Informative
      "And what happens if someone takes a nude picture of your sister without her permission and makes a million from it? Does he own the pictures and the money? What rights does your sister have?"

      AFAIK, in Britain, the photographer owns the photos and can do whatever they like with them as long as it's not libellous.

      --

      Note to M1-ers: a curt but otherwise insightful message is not "Flamebait" or "Troll".

    7. Re:Discoveries? by Hittite+Creosote · · Score: 1
      Within limits. Only if the woman in question is walking around in a public area (a quiet beach is public, your back garden probably isn't). English law has no right to privacy, but the European Convention of Human Rights states
      "Everyone has the right for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence." (Article eight, section one)

      So applying this to genetics - my guess (IANAL) they probably could use your genetic information to make a discovery, and you wouldn't be able to stop them, but they couldn't publish your genetic material, identifying it as coming from you, without violating your right to privacy. Since the DNA make-up isn't as obviously identifying someone to the general public as a photograph, they might be able to publish it as the DNA of 'Mr X'...

    8. Re:Discoveries? by jgerman · · Score: 2

      I'd imagine that if someone found something like the cure for cancer in your DNA, you'd lose your rights to it pretty quickly (assuming you ever had them). It would seem to me that for the good of everyone else in the country (world for that matter) the government would use something along the lines of immiment (sp mistake I know) domain. And in that case more power to them, if I couldn't get my cancer cured because some asshole wanted a million dollars a pop I'd be pretty pissed.

      --
      I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
    9. Re:Discoveries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until they can build the sequence in simulation and find out who Mr. X is, at which point Mr. X has now been violated.

  15. Absolutely. by neksys · · Score: 2

    The neat thing is, the price of this can only come down. I can't see it being cheap enough to be covered by health care (in countries that have such a beast), but imagine being able to plonk down $5000 or so to have your genome mapped - you could then know what to expect not only in your life, but what to expect for your children, especially when both you and your spouse have the same test done. I firmly believe that pre-emptive medical scanning - that is, determining and eliminating the possibility of a given illness before it occurs - will be one of the major scientific breakthroughs of our time.

    1. Re:Absolutely. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Has he actually delivered? Remember, this guy is currently unemployed, his last company fired him and it appears that much of the DNA they did sequence wasn't from the diverse sources they claimed (it was his)- Sounds like he's onto a good racket,- generate copies of the current sequence- change a few bases here and there- whose to know? He fooled all of the people for some of the time- why not try for some of the people for all of the time? He's certainly got the ethics for it.

    2. Re:Absolutely. by gene_tailor · · Score: 1
      >you could then know what to expect not only in your life

      Several points here-- 1) I'm not convinced this would be great!

      2) that's not how DNA works. For argument, let's assume that it becomes cheap to sequence all your DNA. The information you would have is your genotype. However, this only -suggests- what your physical and personality characteristics (phenotypes) will be, and only gives a probability that you may get some disease if exposed to correct environmental trigger/health conditions, etc.

      3) For most diseases, which are complex and involve many genes, there's a long way to go between identifying some disease genes, and knowing what to change to "fix" them. (The cases like SCID or cystic fibrosis where something could theoretically be fixed by changing a single gene are very rare). This may happen, but I'm not sure if it will be in "our time".

      --
      It also occurs to me that if one was drowning, yelling "Help! I'm drowning and I lost my bikini top" would probably be m
  16. What... by JumboMessiah · · Score: 1

    They're really paying for is the true origin of their penile size. Is it really a product of nature or nurture...

    1. Re:What... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's both. It starts out at its normal size due to nature, but with nuturing can get much larger.

  17. Pocket change? by bdesham · · Score: 1
    If you had the pocket change, would you give this man your business?
    Hell, if I just had $621,500 lying around, there isn't much I wouldn't spend it on!
    --
    Alcohol and Calculus don't mix. Don't drink and derive.
  18. Great! by Sir+Bard · · Score: 0

    some day people will think back to how great the wealthy people of our time were and wan't to recreate them, I hope they release their map under the GPL

    1. Re:Great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i wish you people would STOP trying to apply the stupid GPL to everything. it's a goddamn S-O-F-T-W-A-R-E license for crying out loud.

  19. someone had to say it by Jucius+Maximus · · Score: 2
    "I firmly believe that pre-emptive medical scanning - that is, determining and eliminating the possibility of a given illness before it occurs - will be one of the major scientific breakthroughs of our time."

    Two words:

    Holy Gattaca!

    1. Re:someone had to say it by ollywompus · · Score: 1

      One Word:

      EUGENICS

      brrrrr... makes me cold just thinking about it.

      --
      -- "We're only gonna die from our own arrogance, that's why we might as well take our time..." -Bad Religion
  20. Money is no object by tmark · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I just can't believe how amazed people here are that someone would charge $621K or whatever to have their genome mapped. This is something that had not even been done for any human barely 2 years ago, and then only at the HUGE expense to governments all over the world, and now you can get it done for less than a million dollars ? Do these people realize how immense is the enterprise they can buy now, for less than a lot of houses that dot-commers were buying in the Bay area that same 2 years ago ?

    And many of these are the same people who probably ooh-and-ahh at anime cels costing tens of thousands of dollars, or who dream of plans spending tens of thousands of dollars wiring their house with the latest optical-this and wireless-that.

    People have spent far more money in far sillier ways.

    1. Re:Money is no object by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 1
      People have spent far more money in far sillier ways.
      *cough* LNUX *cough*
    2. Re:Money is no object by guttentag · · Score: 2
      I just can't believe how amazed people here are that someone would charge $621K or whatever to have their genome mapped. This is something that had not even been done for any human barely 2 years ago, and then only at the HUGE expense to governments all over the world, and now you can get it done for less than a million dollars ? Do these people realize how immense is the enterprise they can buy now, for less than a lot of houses that dot-commers were buying in the Bay area that same 2 years ago ?
      The reason people are amazed that folks are paying over $600,000 for this is that it has no value for the vast majority of them. You can't definitively say when you're going to die, what diseases you're going to get or whether your kids will be criminals based on this. It has value to the scientific community, but none to the people who are paying for it.

      What are they going to do? Put it up on their mantle and point to it when they have company? That's exactly why most of them are doing this:

      "You know... that's my DNA over there. Yeah. Had myself sequenced... because... I'm cool like that. Yeah. Did I ever tell you about my plan to replace the Internet... with modems? Yeah."

    3. Re:Money is no object by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      today there's no real use for it, but what about in 10 years? I assume most people that will be sequenced will still be alive in 10 years.... and they'll have their gene map to compare to whatever discoveries are found in those 10 years. Sure, it's a toy now, but that doesn't mean it has no value. Especially for those who make $200 million a year and just want to know all they can so they can live forever ;-)

    4. Re:Money is no object by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like these folks need to spend a little money on a good ass-kicking.

    5. Re:Money is no object by WeekendKruzr · · Score: 1

      This is very true, just ask Lance Bass. ;)

    6. Re:Money is no object by gad_zuki! · · Score: 2

      Agreed, its no secret that people growing up in the information age are pretty cynical when it comes to technological advances. If it isn't cheap and effective and available with overnight shipping or instantly downloadable then it might as well not exist for them. I know this is a good sized generalization, but taking things for granted is the status quo. I'm still blown away by a lot of 'ordinary' information age marvels like globally-accesible self-publishing and cheap broadband.

      Not to mention any new tech needs early adoptors to pay through the nose so the rest of us can pay next to nothing and take it for granted later. These millionares could buy a really nice yacht or another home with this kind of cash. I think their investments are very much justified. Genome decoding isn't crackpot science, its advancing and this information will simply be priceless once the science matures in the near future.

    7. Re:Money is no object by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have a great argument there, and I was thinking along similar lines, but don't you kind of have to assume that 10 years or however long from now it takes for the information to become useful, won't the price have dropped a bit below $600k?

    8. Re:Money is no object by Saeger · · Score: 2
      today there's no real use for it, but what about in 10 years?

      In ten or fifteen years I'd expect these same multi-millionaires to be among the first paying for a much more valuable "Brain Map". Wouldn't you much rather know how each and every one of your neurons is interconnected, NOW, than know your DNA's seed-AI sequence to grow a new blank one? I would.

      I know it seems crazy to think about, but biological genes won't really mean much to post-humans. Eventually every atom in my body (and in the solar system) will be brain substrate.

      --

      --
      Power to the Peaceful
    9. Re:Money is no object by ivanandre · · Score: 1

      Wire their house with WIRELESS?

    10. Re:Money is no object by badnews_bear · · Score: 1

      what about in 10 years they discover that they incorrectly mapped DNA due to a miscalucation? What about in 10 years they find a far better way to discover our genetic flaws? What about in 10 years we finally do enough damage to the planet and there are no more people? 10 years is a long time to wait for something like this to be useful, if it ever does become useful to the individual. I absolutely agree that it is useful to the scientific community and not to the person. I also agree that people have spent their money on far more useless things. If rich people want to get sequenced then let them...they are putting their money into a good project.

  21. Venter's DNA by morcheeba · · Score: 5, Funny

    Craig's company Celera was mapping a suposedly anonymous genome, but then craig admitted it was his dna. As a Celera shareholder, I wonder if that qualifies as a $600k perk that he got.

    1. Re:Venter's DNA by jokerghost · · Score: 1

      Sure it does, but only if ArthurAnderson does your accounting.

      -jokerghost

  22. This highlights a huge conflict coming by MichaelPenne · · Score: 2, Interesting

    in the the 21st century.

    We'll experience a revolution in biotechnology and it's ability to give folks longer, healthier lives.

    But many or the treatments will be very expensive.

    At what point does being denied a cure for a disease due to poverty equal being denied the right to life?

    Or do we just accept that the rich will live years, maybe decades, longer than the rest of US?

    1. Re:This highlights a huge conflict coming by ollywompus · · Score: 1

      At what point does being denied a cure for a disease due to poverty equal being denied the right to life?

      Or do we just accept that the rich will live years, maybe decades, longer than the rest of US?


      We already accept that fact, at least in the US where we don't have state healthcare. Example, if you are Bill Gates, and you need a liver transplant costing hundreds of thousands of dollars... or you are me. Who is going to live longer? It is already a reality that those with money get better medical treatment... such is what happens when medicine and capitalism collide.

      Stupidity should be as painful as Windows...

      --
      -- "We're only gonna die from our own arrogance, that's why we might as well take our time..." -Bad Religion
    2. Re:This highlights a huge conflict coming by MichaelPenne · · Score: 1

      How much longer will the rich have to live before ordinary folks get really p**d off, do you think?

      A decade? (you're right, probably already there when accidents are corrected out)

      2 decades?

      3?

    3. Re:This highlights a huge conflict coming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By the time the "poor" wake up and realize they're getting the shaft, technology/science will have progressed to a point where the elite will be able to maintain their dominance effortlessly.

      Every day that passes is one day less to do something about it.

    4. Re:This highlights a huge conflict coming by Tackhead · · Score: 2
      > How much longer will the rich have to live before ordinary folks get really p**d off, do you think?
      >A decade? (you're right, probably already there when accidents are corrected out)
      > 2 decades?
      >3?

      Yep. Damn those "rich" people for funding companies like Celera. Damn them to hell! Damn those big pharmaceuticals! Smash capitalism forever!

      Life was so much more effective 400 years ago, when the average life expectancy was around half of what it is today.

      Yes, I can see your utopia coming true in 30 years. I have visions of a small group of illiterate former humans scrabbling through the ashes of what was once a laboratory. I see one of them picking up a gene sequencer. I see him using the gene sequencer to advance his tribe's position.

      Of course, he's using it by shoving it out a broken window so that it lands on top of a neighboring tribe's leader, crushing his skull like a bug. But hey, at least you got rid of capitalism, huh?

    5. Re:This highlights a huge conflict coming by MichaelPenne · · Score: 1

      So you see no problem with a rich person living for 3 or more decades longer than a poor person? No conflict there with the "inalienable rights" guaranteed to all?

      BTW, why are you assuming I'm attacking capitalism? Does "capitalism" require a huge difference between the rich and the poor? Does capitalism require that the rich live much longer and healthier lives than the poor?

      I think that capitalism merely requires that capital be free to flow to the area most worth investing in, something which seems at odds with having most of the capital locked up in the hands of a few, no?

      Finally, what is the point of your dystopic vision of a post-nuclear world? Are you saying that the only choice available is accepting gross divisions between rich and poor or nuking the place?

      Surely democracy comes into the equation at some point (as a way of more or less peacefully resolving the differences between groups)?

    6. Re:This highlights a huge conflict coming by Tackhead · · Score: 2
      > So you see no problem with a rich person living for 3 or more decades longer than a poor person? No conflict there with the "inalienable rights" guaranteed to all?

      The inalienable right is to purchase one's own medical care with wealth one has acquired through productive work.

      You have a right to purchase whatever medical care you can with the dollars you earn, as do I, as does Bill Gates.

      The medical care I purchase won't be as good as what Gates purchases. If it's not good enough for me, I have the right to do without or save my money. I may not like Bill very much, but I fail to see how I have a right to take money from Mr. Gates to fund my purchase.

      > BTW, why are you assuming I'm attacking capitalism? Does "capitalism" require a huge difference between the rich and the poor? Does capitalism require that the rich live much longer and healthier lives than the poor?

      I base the assumption on my observation that most who view society as being composed of "the rich" and "ordinary folks" tend to oppose capitalism.

      In answer to your questions, (wide wealth gap, rich living longer/healthier) no and no. Capitalism doesn't require these things at all, although I'll admit that these things typically result alongside capitalism.

      The problem is, any system that prohibits these things is antithetical to capitalism. I've got nothing against encouraging charity, for instance, as a way for a rich guy to get rid of money he doesn't want. But that doesn't prevent wealth disparity under capitalism, since someone else is always free not to donate.

      In order to prevent such disparities, eventually someone's gotta pick up a gun and say "Yo, Gates. Too much money. Too many toys. Too high a standard of living. You're giving that money to charity or we're taking it from you."

      I don't have a problem with charity, but I do have a problem with picking up a gun and pointing it at someone and taking his stuff.

      > Finally, what is the point of your dystopic vision of a post-nuclear world? Are you saying that the only choice available is accepting gross divisions between rich and poor or nuking the place?

      OK, guilty as charged of hyperbole. :)

      But that's not too far from we lived up until the Renaissance and the Industrial Revolution. If it weren't for rich folks funding investments in order to please themselves ("Yo, Mike-lo, paint my chapel ceiling, something with lots of cherubs!" and "Hey, that steam engine hooked up to a spinning wheel and another one hooked up to a loom could replace a lot of manual labor"), that's pretty much where we'd still be.

      Witness the former Soviet Union - in their failed attempts to achived socialist utopia, 70 years after "ordinary folks got p***ed off at the rich", all they have to show for it is some good, cheap, reliable heavy-lift vehicles (originally designed for lobbing nukes, not space exploration), a best-on-the-planet biowarfare programme, and a life expectancy not too far removed from that of 300 years ago.

      You can argue that "pure Capitalism" is an unreachable ideal, just as "pure Communism" is unreachable. (And I'd agree with both sentiments.)

      But if you compare standards of living around the world, you'll find that "the poor" have done a damn sight better under countries with (flawed as they inevitably are) implementations of Capitalism versus any other social system.

      Someone living on welfare in America today probably a higher standard of living (more toys, more food, refrigeration, better health care) than most of our grandparents. And as far "living longer and healthier" goes, 400 years of capitalism have left him better off than most kings of the 1600s.

    7. Re:This highlights a huge conflict coming by MichaelPenne · · Score: 1

      > The inalienable right is to purchase one's own medical care with wealth one has acquired through productive work.

      That sounds like pursuit of happieness. But I was talking about the first inalieanble right, what it meant before the religious right hi-jacked it, & in context what it would mean if "life" was denied to poor Americans (capitalist, communist, or otherwise).

      So to return to the context, is denial of medical care a violation of an American's right to life?

      > "Yo, Gates. Too much money. Too many toys. Too high a standard of living. You're giving that money to charity or we're taking it from you."

      Uh huh. In any event, it doesn't take guns (unless Gates decides to fight), it takes a majority in Congress. And the question was: "how big will the disparity between the lifespan of the poor (here defined as folks who can't afford a
      $600,000 test to save their life) have to get before the poor will demand an equal right to life?"

      > But if you compare standards of living around the world, you'll find that "the poor" have done a damn sight better under countries with (flawed as they inevitably are) implementations of Capitalism versus any other social system.

      So you think that if the rich live for say 30 years longer than the poor, the poor will still feel ok with it because they live longer than the kings of the 1600s? Or because they still live longer than the warlords in Sudan? How about if the rich live 50 years longer?

    8. Re:This highlights a huge conflict coming by Tackhead · · Score: 2
      > [ life, liberty, pursuit of happiness ] So to return to the context, is denial of medical care a violation of an American's right to life?

      When I (through voting for representatives who will pass laws that authorize the IRS to) take $1000 out of Bill Gates' pocket to buy me medical care that I couldn't otherwise afford, who's being denied medical care?

      The crux of our disagreement is on the notion of "right" is.

      So - in my view - Bill's got the "right" to buy medical care, and so do I. His purchase of a CellGenomix SuperGeneHacker2048 to give himself another 10 years of life doesn't affect my right to do the same thing. Bill's right to an SGH2048 denies me nothing.

      (Yes, this argument smacks of "Bill Gates has as much right to sleep in a cardboard box as any homeless guy" :)

      But I fail to see by what "right" I can take $1000 of Bill's money to buy myself a Ronco Gene-o-matic at WalMart that gives me an extra week or two, and in so doing, deny Bill the right to spend $1000 on the upgrade to an SGH2049?

      > Uh huh. In any event, it doesn't take guns (unless Gates decides to fight), it takes a majority in Congress

      You mean, if I ignore what a majority of Congresscritters write on a piece of paper, nobody with guns will come and take me away?

      When did this happen, and why didn't someone tell me?!? This is so cool! I no longer have to pay any taxes at all, and I'm gonna start distributing DeCSS, and I'm gonna set up a big P2P MP3-sharing network, and...

      Oh, wait. There's some folks with guns at my door telling me to stop all that.

      Or do you mean that Gates shouldn't (in some moral sense) fight when his rights are violated. In which case, I suppose the DMCA is also just and fair and proper.

      (FWIW, I comply with the DMCA for the same reason I do with the tax laws -- not because I believe them to be moral or just, but because it's more expensive, in terms of guys with guns making my life miserable -- to resist than to comply. Bill, on the other hand, might actually be rich enough, and Congress might be dumb enough, to pass tax laws where it would be cheaper for him to build an island outside territorial waters and raise an army of clones to defend it. YMMV. :-)

      > So you think that if the rich live for say 30 years longer than the poor, the poor will still feel ok with it because they live longer than the kings of the 1600s? Or because they still live longer than the warlords in Sudan? How about if the rich live 50 years longer?

      You're saying you'd rather live in this world:

      1) Tack and Mike live to 90. Bill lives to 120.

      ...than:

      2) Tack and Mike live to 100. Bill lives to 150.

      ...even if the net effect of your choosing #1 over #2 is that nobody builds gene-hackers because there's no profit in it. (This would be much like how we still don't have a Malaria vaccine, because those who would benefit most can't afford it). That leads to an increased probability of the status quo:

      3) Tack and Mike and Bill live to 80.

      I dunno about you, but I'll be quite happy the extra 10 years from door #2, even if it means we all have 20 more years of Outlook worms to deal with :)

    9. Re:This highlights a huge conflict coming by MichaelPenne · · Score: 1

      > 2) Tack and Mike live to 100. Bill lives to 150.

      Switch it too:
      Gates buys Abrams tanks and defends his mansion against the invading commie armies.

      Tack and Mike get killed by commies because we have no tanks.

      We have the best military in the world because folks have decided to stop alot (though by no means all!) of the religious infighting over whether privatly or publicly is a better way to spend resources on this one issue and just get it right.

      There is no logical reason that the life of our citizens can't be defended from internal diseases with the same vigor that we currently use vs. external enemies.

      Unfortunatly, there are plenty of illogical reasons why we don't do this.

    10. Re:This highlights a huge conflict coming by Tackhead · · Score: 1
      > > 2) Tack and Mike live to 100. Bill lives to 150.
      >
      > Switch it too:
      > Gates buys Abrams tanks and defends his mansion against the invading commie armies.
      >
      > Tack and Mike get killed by commies because we have no tanks

      Well, with one modification. Only Mike gets killed. Tack lives to 85 because he signs on as a gunner in one of Bill's tanks. (I'd have made it to 100, but I screwed up and tried to drive through the IRS-planted minefield around the Free State of Gatesville, formerly known as Redmond :)

      FWIW, I'm in favor of paying taxes for things like the common defense. For instance, against invading commie armies from outside the US. Ditto for cops and even roads.

      Problem is, what if the commie armies attacking Bill aren't coming from outside the US, but are already here? (I think we're a helluvalong way from that point, and I don't think we'll get there, but as long as we're speaking hypothetically...)

      If a country can stick to "Bill should give up some of his money in order to provide for things like cops and soldiers", it's probably OK in the long run.

      But when it starts to adopt notions like "Bill should give up some of his money because he's got more than everyone else does", I get worried, because it's not too far a jump from there to "...and Bill should die earlier so that others can live longer."

      Does Bill have a right to his own life, or does he have a right to his life only as long as he can be a milch-cow for us?

      (Which is where I'll sign off, as we're probably the only two people reading this anymore. But it's been good debating with you. Our threads will likely cross again :)

  23. Re:Of course results may vary... by saskboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think this would be one of the best investments a person could make. Too bad it will be all of rich people, which will skew the results of any statistics that could pop out of the research. All super rich people must have a gene or two that supplies an aggressive desire for money, and stupid gold digging mates.

    --
    Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
  24. Doesn't that kind of take the fun out of life? by Mustang+Matt · · Score: 2

    I guess it could be fun to cheat death if you found out about something you had before it affected you.

    --
    The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
  25. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  26. The reason for the price... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bill Gates won't pay more then 640 K.

    It ought to be enough for anybody.

    This is the sale price.

  27. good business plan by vladkrupin · · Score: 1

    If you had the pocket change, would you give this man your business?"

    Of course not! The guy isn't dumb though. If you were willing to pay for your gene map, chances are all your 2000 clones (or however many he created) will be willing, and have the money to do the same!

    --

    Jobs? Which jobs?
  28. Why pay for what you already own? by E-Rock-23 · · Score: 1

    Whoopie. This is the single worst fad since Pop Music. Why in the hell would you pay for something you already own, and have owned since the day you were concieved? They typical answer for the richie chicken folk would be "Because I can."

    So, if I go out and patent my gene sequence, does that mean I can sue my offspring for being a derivitive of me? Is that what these rich fools are after? Sick. Sick, sick, sick. Amazing what having a ton of money will do to your brain.

    Meanwhile, us regular folk will continue to make more educated and well thought out decisions (or at least as many as we can without being clouded by one thing or another. After all, we're not perfect...)

    --
    Blog Prophyts - Right On, Man
  29. I already own this... by stuffman64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why would I pay for something I already own?

    Sure, it would be nice to know in advance if I am susceptible to getting diabietes like my grandmother, or heart disease like most of my mother's side of the family. However, if I do all I can to be healthy (i.e., not eating junkfood while laying on my couch all day), there is a significantly less chance of my being afflicted by these ailments. Some things could not be prevented, but I already know I have them (depression, bad eyesight).

    If people spend their "pocket change" on this, they may be in for a suprise. They may find that they have the genes for an increased risk of myocardial infarctions (heart attack), but because they have neglected thier health, they may find it hard to change thier lifestyle to a more healthy one. Although many health-related problems cannot be avoided (for instance, Huntington's Disease, which usually doesn't show up untill your 30's), many diseases that you may be high-risk for can be prevented with a proper lifestyle.

    --
    --- At my sig, unleash hell.
    1. Re:I already own this... by isorox · · Score: 3, Funny

      However, if I do all I can to be healthy (i.e., not eating junkfood while laying on my couch all day)

      I stopped that lifestyle a long time ago, I now sit in my nice comfy armchair while eating junk food, much healthier!

  30. Just wait 10 years.. by lunaman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...and your employer (or insurance company, bank, credit bureau, department of motor vehicles, Department of Homeland Defense, etc.) will do it for you FOR FREE!

    With or without your permission.

    Perhaps by then someone will offer a service where you can pay your $600K to PREVENT everyone from getting your gene sequence...

    1. Re:Just wait 10 years.. by halo8 · · Score: 1

      DAMMIT!!! I just used up my last mod point

      IM SOOOO SORRY this ROCKS

      --
      The More Knowledge you have the Luckier you Get- J.R. Ewing
    2. Re:Just wait 10 years.. by seattle2napa · · Score: 0
      And why do I care that my employer, insurance company, etc. profile my genes?

      Basically they're going to come to the conclusion that most everyone sucks. :)

      Laws will be passed (at least in the US) protecting people from losing insurance over this (remember, today, at least in my state, the insurance companies are forced to take you even with pre-existing conditions that cost a lot of money to treat).

      I'm not going to lose my job, because anybody with half a brain (genetically profiled or not) realizes that people that have performed successfully in the past will continue to do so in the future, and that other people, no matter how genetically superior in various ways, will not necessarily do so (I've worked with a lot of people from high profile universities who sucked eggs when it came to actually getting the job done...).

      I just don't see the need for all the paranoia.

  31. Personal Hygeine Map? by Marijuana+al-Shehi · · Score: 1

    Oops, misread the headline....

    --
    "I think all foreigners should stop interfering in the internal affairs of Iraq"
    -- Paul Wolfowitz, 7/21/2003
  32. Cheap by hipbase · · Score: 1

    I will sell my DNA for 6 bucks

  33. hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if i had the pocket change, would i? .. well .. if
    i were the type that could afford to toss away a
    half a million+ to find out something that i couldn't
    do anything about, sure - given that i'm not that
    well off, i'm guessing no ;) .. i am what i am

  34. CowboyNeal should have this done. by TheSpeaker2Machines · · Score: 0

    Next Distributed.Net project: Decode CowboyNeals Genes!

  35. How big is my source? by geoffeg · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How big would the resulting data be? In the meg's, gig's? Would it compress well?

    It would be cool to be able to carry around your own genome on a little CDROM in your wallet or purse.

    Geoffeg

    1. Re:How big is my source? by davidstrauss · · Score: 1

      Funny, I carry my DNA in microscopic form every day.

    2. Re:How big is my source? by mbessey · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Let's see. Three billion base pairs, at approximately two bits of information per base pair = 6 billion bits, or about 750 Megabytes of raw data.

      It'll probably compress very well, since most of the sequences correspond with either Amino Acids or control codes of one sort or another.

      Probably smaller than the source code to your favorite Linux distribution, overall...

      -Mark

    3. Re:How big is my source? by lovebyte · · Score: 1

      at approximately two bits of information per base pair
      Approximately? Either 2 or more. In fact you probably need more since there are ambiguity codes used when it is not clear from sequencing which of ATC or G it is. So lets say we use ascii codes. That would be 8 bits.

      It'll probably compress very well, since most of the sequences correspond with either Amino Acids or control codes of one sort or another.
      Wrong! Most of our genome is nothing interesting. As far as we know. Anyway, if you use ascii codes then you could easily compress your whole genome on a CD anyway.

      I would guess, that these rich guys don't get their whole genome, but some bit and pieces.

      --

      I'll do it for cheesy poofs.

  36. better things to do with that money? by GoatPigSheep · · Score: 2

    Imagine how many starving children could be fed if those millionaires donated the $621,500 to charity instead of getting their genes mapped and finding out what illness might kill them.

    Oh well, like it would ever happen.

    --
    GoatPigSheep, the 3 most important food groups
    1. Re:better things to do with that money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imagine how many starving children could be fed if you sold your computer and bought a bunch of bread and shipped it somewhere.

    2. Re:better things to do with that money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imagine getting $500 worth of moldy bread in the mail.

    3. Re:better things to do with that money? by Tackhead · · Score: 2
      > Imagine how many starving children could be fed if those millionaires donated the $621,500 to charity instead of getting their genes mapped and finding out what illness might kill them.

      Imagine what a wonderful world we'd have if the millionaires of 50-60 years ago had given the money to charity instead of investing in companies that mass-produced cheap effective vaccines against diptheria, tetanus, polio and smallpox.

  37. old question by carpe_noctem · · Score: 1

    This kind of reminds me of an old question I used to go around asking people: Would you rather know the date of your death, or the method of your death?
    Inevitably, most people would stumble around a bit, and then finally settle on "neither", because nobody wants to live knowing that they'd only have 10 or so years left or this world, nor knowing that each time they stepped on an airplane could be their last. So, with that being said, I think I'll save myself the 600K and enjoy the suspense. ;)

    --
    "Quoting famous computer scientists out of context is the root of all evil (or at least most of it) in programming." - K
    1. Re:old question by Tackhead · · Score: 2
      > This kind of reminds me of an old question I used to go around asking people: Would you rather know the date of your death, or the method of your death?
      >
      > Inevitably, most people would stumble around a bit, and then finally settle on "neither", because nobody wants to live knowing that they'd only have 10 or so years left or this world, nor knowing that each time they stepped on an airplane could be their last.

      I'll buy the argument for "method" but have never understood the argument for "date". If we assume our fate is predetermined (which we have to, for the question is meaningless without it), why wouldn't anyone want to know the date of their death?

      If I have 80 years to go, I can invest long-term, and should probably keep my current job for another decade or two.

      If I have 10 years to go, I can either work for another 5 years and live for 5 years of a moderate party lifestyle, or retire tomorrow and read Slashdot and play CounterStrike for the rest of my days.

      If I have one year left, I can tell my boss to eat my shorts now, buy a Ferrari and a couple of hookers tomorrow, and haul ass across America, leaving a trail of burned rubber, pissed-off cops, 10-20 dead Black Angus cattle, and 200 very happy bartenders in my wake. W00T!

  38. I Could Do This... by Cyno01 · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Jeez, whos gonna know, if some guy gave me half a million dollars to do it i'd sit there for a day and type random combinations of a, c, g and t, heres your genome... acgtgtacgtcagtacgtcgtgcatcgatcgatctacgatcgatcgat cgatcgatcgatcgatcgatcgactgactagctagctacgatgtatgcgc gatttcggatatttcgagctacgctadgatcgatcgatcgatcgatcgat cgatcgatcdgatcgatagctagctagctagctagctgatcgatcgatca tcgatgcgtagttagtcgtcgtacgtagctatcgatcgatctagctagct agctag X 10^?

    --
    "Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
  39. $621k today $29.95 tomorrow by Dutchmaan · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Eventually as the process becomes less expensive and less time consuming we should see this slowly seep into the public sector.. once that happens the scare of it should wear off as the uses of it take shape.

    Personally, I think we're going to be seeing a LOT of gene therapy in our lifetime..

    I just know I'm gonna be the last person on earth to die!

    "Yup, we discovered how to let you live youthfully and healthily forever! All I need to do is give you this injection"

    "Forget it doctor... he's gone."

  40. Out of curiosity... by CMRichar · · Score: 1
    Whose genetic sequence would be more likely to show the "devil gene": Hilary Rosen, Jack Valenti, or Bill Gates?

    waiting for my post to be modded through the floor...

    --
    "Good night, good work, sleep well, I'll most likely kill you in the morning." - Dread Pirate Roberts
  41. Woah there by zorander · · Score: 1

    ...gattaca...gattaca...gattaca...

    Besides that, how would they give you your genome? on a CD-ROM? no...too big...I don't even think a DVD would hold it...though I can't be sure.

    What do they do, give you a hard disk? Give you a computer with the information embedded inside?

    I think the distribution form factor would be an interesting problem here since it's so much data.

    For $621,000 It had better be nice, though...
    Maybe a numa with one of those $8000 IBM displays that's like 4000x2000 pixels or something like that...

    Brian

    1. Re:Woah there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they'd prick your finger, take one drop of blood, put in a vile and give it to you, and send you on your way.

    2. Re:Woah there by seattle2napa · · Score: 0
      A related question would be: Why bother?

      At best you're going to find out that you might be more inclined to get this disease or that one, and then maybe you'll try to fad remedy of the day like eating half a watermelon every day or taking half a gram of CoQ10 every hour on the hour with a glass of distilled water.

      Your doctor isn't going to look at it (even if you do have a way to bring it to him, be it on a DVD laptop, etc.).

      Did someone mention PT Barnum?

  42. George Bush was TIME's 2000 POY, not Venter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Venter was merely a runner-up.

  43. Re:I already own this... [so?] by djupedal · · Score: 1

    You pay for a printed copy of your credit history, don't you? You pay for a title search; school transcript...etc.

    Don't be [simplistic] lame [/simplistic]...you are not paying to receive something you already own. You are simply paying for the transcript of the analysis of the raw data.

    What is going on here is paying to have all this data dycrypted in advance. It won't be long before some business markets forecasting on the bulk data.

  44. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  45. First step by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    towards finding a 'rich gene' to breed a race of monetarily inclined, super greedy, psychotic super-businessmen.

    Oh yeah, sign me up!

  46. the question that's begging to be asked... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if I can get my genome mapped, can I somehow alter my genes and get an extremely large rectum and anus, like this. This is what we all want to know.

  47. It's really not much data at all by mbessey · · Score: 3, Interesting

    We're only talking about 6 billion bits or so. You'd need about 2 CD's, if you didn't compress it at all.

    -Mark

    1. Re:It's really not much data at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey babe, my DNA don't compress. It is da buff, the full stuff, no air.

  48. Well... by solarrhino · · Score: 1
    ...I think the embryo might be a little "harmed".

    I expect to be shot down for this, but must be said: some day, people will look back on this generation with the same horror with which we look back on institutionalized slavery, and for the same reason - one humanity of one group is being denied for the benefit and convenience of another. Your comment is a reflection of that attitude.

    --
    "Lord, grant that I may always be right, for Thou knowest that I am hard to turn" -- A Scots-Irish prayer
    1. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody but fruitcakes care if you kill a few itsy-bitsy rapidly replicating cells.

      On the other hand, by swatting a fly or mosquito,...

  49. Leelee Sobieski... by Nathdot · · Score: 2

    Rumour/IMDB-Trivia has it that Leelee Sobieski collects locks of hair from major stars appearing with her in films.

    So if anybody wanted to buy themselves a prime bevy of Hollywood DNA to make gene maps from (for whatever nefarious cloney-type purposes) she'd be the person to see. :)

    PS. A clone army of Leelees would be nice too

    1. Re:Leelee Sobieski... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It isn't rumor; she publically stated the fact that she collects hair when she appeared on Regis and Whoever's Sitting Next to Him Now.

      Though from what I remember, she said she gathered hair from a variety famous people, not just movie stars.

      Considering how neurotic that is, I've come to a conclusion that it's why she's my favorite actress. :p

    2. Re:Leelee Sobieski... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PS: There's no DNA in hair.

      HTH

    3. Re:Leelee Sobieski... by Gerry+Gleason · · Score: 1

      Unless you pulled the hair out by the roots, there would be no DNA present. Even if there was, it probably wouldn't be useful for sequencing for very long.

  50. a genome worth saving by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps a worthwile use for this technology would be to archive the genetic sequence of endangered species on a robust medium for future generations to reconstitute.

  51. EULA by DeadBugs · · Score: 2

    It would be funny to deliver Bill Gates his "Gene Map" with a restrictive End User License Agreement.

    --
    http://www.kubuntu.org/
  52. Lee Harvey Oswald & The Filthy Critic by Quirk · · Score: 1

    Is it just me or has anyone else noted the striking resemblance The Filthy Critic has to Lee Harvey Oswald? I'm canajen eh! so I haven't got the gift for nefarious conspiracies that you yanks have but I just thought it should be pointed out and I've been away and wanted to see if it's as much fun to blow off karma with the points gone... ... no... it's not... Oh well where'd I put that bong.

    --
    "Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
    Cohen
  53. For only $160 by Anonymous+Squonk · · Score: 2

    You can check out your ancestry as coded in your DNA, specifically what percentage Caucasian, African, etc. you are.

    1. Re:For only $160 by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

      $290 now they say. Maybe they heard the news? ;-)

      Anyone caring _that_ much about what his race is, should go and see a professional.

      He may endup wearing funny white dresses at night.

      Interesting company, thanks though...

  54. Venter != Human Genome Project by shiva · · Score: 1
    Venter is a high profile character in the genetic sequencing scene and the Human Genome Project.

    Craig Venter was NOT part of the Human Genome Project. Venter led, through Celera Genomics, the private effort to sequence the human genome. The Human Genome Project was the public group working on the sequencing the human genome.

    The only thing Craig did for the Human Genome Project was give us someone to race against.

    -krish

    1. Re:Venter != Human Genome Project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only thing Craig did for the Human Genome Project was give us someone to race against.

      I'd say that qualifies for being a "high profile character" in the project. Just as Bill Gates and other MS visionaries are high profile characters in the Linux movement.

      Th'aint no Xtians w/out da goddamn Devil.

  55. only a week to code your dna? by zaqattack911 · · Score: 1

    I don't get it, didn;t it take years to map the genome? thats right map it.. not make sense of it?

    Now they can do it in a week or two?

    are they using some sort of new horribly fast maineframe?

    Anyone here have details on this? and how it's done?

  56. Re:Fear by Grue · · Score: 1

    Vague? Well, as an unconvinced person, perhaps you can understand telemarketers. You know... call you up while you're eating dinner, trying to sell you their cheap do-hickeys. You tell them to take your name off their list, but by the time they do that, they've already sold your name to a new company. Or your phone company selling your call lists to their "business partners." Which they do now. There's a lot more information in that list than meets the eye. Times you're most likely to be home (and not home.) Who you call and when. Collate that information with other call logs and you've got graphs of who your friends and aquaintances are, and who they're friends with.. etc.

    No, I'm not wearing my tinfoil hat right now. But all that information adds up, and keeps adding up, and eventually you can get some detailed life information. "So what, only criminals would fear that." Well, you don't have to fear it to be creeped out by it. And aggravated when you get those damn calls no matter how many times you tell them "Take me off your damn list."

    Josh

  57. Ironically enough... by glwtta · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... he got paid to sequence his own. Go figure.

    --
    sic transit gloria mundi
  58. I want to find out... by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 2

    ... where the Bill Gates' money gene is. Unfortunately, the subsequence that accounts for it probably expresses the lack of business ethics characteristic, as well.

    --
    That is all.
  59. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  60. Re:I already own this... [so?] by stuffman64 · · Score: 2

    hmm... thanks for the personal attack. I don't mind my ideas being criticized, but they don't make me lame... anyways...

    The difference between this and, say, a credit report is that the credit report is not part of you. It may describe your lack of paying bills, but it only describes a quality of you.

    On the other hand, your genome is you. It is what you are - who you are. Credit reports created, modified, and under certain circumstances, destroyed. The information in them changes, so it is necessary to check on it from time to time - the same way you buy current newspapers as opposed to the same issue every day. Your genes are, for the most part, static. They are with you from the time your dad's sperm met with your mom's egg. Credit reports and school transcripts are explicit properites of you, but your genome is implicit.

    I'm not arguing with you about the service aspect of this; after all, it is just as much of a service as getting a copy of your credit report. It is just the content that I see differently

    --
    --- At my sig, unleash hell.
  61. A creative guy, but with our money by ltmdweaver · · Score: 1

    I knew the guy when he was a civil servant... He was never satisfied with the money, prestige, or clout he had at the NLM (National Library of Medicine)... He has taken much of the data he used tax dollars to produce, and somehow found a way to profit from it massively... Good for him, and bad on us for tolerating this huge abuse of something which should be patently impossible to patent or own.... especially something as private, and unique as genetic material.... DNA=Intellectual property=NOT!

  62. A nice comparison by tfoss · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I was at a lecture given by Leslie Orgel (a very famous biochemist known for work on the molecular origin of life) and he made a very nice point when asked about the genome project. He likened the sequencing of it to deciphering the white pages of a phone book for a large city. If we ever work out the proteome (the collection of proteins that the genome codes for, along with post-translational modifications, binding partners, etc...which is much beyond what is specified in the genome), then we will have the equivalent of the yellow pages. Yet, even with both of these references, you could only begin to try and understand how the city (and by comparison, the cell) functions.

    So while having your personal genome might be cool in the uber-rich kind of way, the usefulness is still quite limited.

    -Ted

    --
    -=-=- Quantum physics - the dreams stuff are made of.
  63. Re:I already own this... [so?] by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since when does a map of your genes not qualify as a description of you? They don't take your DNA away from you and sell it back....they take a sample and analyze it and give you a 'map' that is in human readable (sic) form.

    How can you insist that they ever possess anything of yours other than a representive sample? A sample that is used to provide a detailed matrix that describes your physical makeup.

    BTW, I don't recommend participation in online public forums if you fear a 'personal attack'. It is hard to know when to duck.

  64. Re:Fear by nasim · · Score: 1

    Isn't the absolute worst case scenario of your argument that a telemarketer might call one day who had so much knowledge about you(DNA, psychological profile, buying habits, etc.) that they might actually offer something to you that you would actually WANT/NEED and wouldn't be able to resist buying(because it was generally useful or whatever) Bwahaha, the evils of targeted marketing! "What how did you know I was looking for a diamond heart pendant with platinum engraving for my wife's birthday...oh well, $19.95 sure I guess I'll take it. You're going to send me a free information booklet on a new FDA approved nutritional protocol that works against prostate cancer *blush* uh..uh o.k. I'll read it over and then get back to you..."

    --

    For great justice take off every sig.

  65. 9 months for that? by racerx509 · · Score: 1

    so will it still take 9 months to compile?

    --
    13 year old white supremacists are shitty web designers.
  66. It's not the price..... by Thatto · · Score: 1

    I dont think that most /.ers think it is too expensive. They think it's ludicrous for any single person to spend that much money on nothing. I could get more useful info off of the Linux Kernal Map over at thinkgeek for $30, than a map of my DNA.

  67. "A close tie" by anomalousman · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually, the constant media harassment was irritating them, so the two parallel (public/private) projects declared the gene to be sequenced BEFORE either project was complete.

    The enormous media frenzy that happened as a result took up some extra time, but enabled them to get back to the science in peace - with extra funding in several cases.

  68. Proper lifestyle? by djupedal · · Score: 1

    There may be a gene for believing that 'lifestyle' is important, but I think it's too subjective to be touted as a means to an end.

    'proper lifestyle' is a myth. State of mind and environment wield much more influence than something as basic as diet. Try factoring in no diet and see what happens...try feeding the same family the same foods, good or bad, for three generations and see what effect that has in the end....I say not nearly as much as some people today claim.

    We're talking about physical predispositions that tend to disregard lifestyle. Some cultures tolerate what would be considered toxins to others. One man's junkfood is another man's pet.

    People that spend on this now are investing in knowledge....knowledge they can use now, and in the future (this includes ways we can't imagine today).

    I'm sorry, but I fail to see the insight in trivializing this kind of opportunity.

    1. Re:Proper lifestyle? by stuffman64 · · Score: 2

      I shouldn't have been so vague in my use of lifestyle. By it, I don't just mean diet and excercise (although it helps). Lifestyle includes state of mind and environment. You could eat well and excercise, but if you live in a run down double-wide and be so depressed that you want to shoot yourself. Generally, I would not consider this a healthy lifestyle.

      --
      --- At my sig, unleash hell.
    2. Re:Proper lifestyle? by djupedal · · Score: 1

      I think we both agree on the definition of lifestyle, now.

      But again, I fail to see how anyone can tout a 'managed lifestyle' without believing it can be better managed through the application more information.

      Adopting one diet and stress reduction program over another is subjective. But being able to cache that against your specific physiology is practical...and for some people, worthwhile at any price. A DNA map of your own can only be a plus, and when it comes to worrying about the deep end of the gene pool, it just might be better than swimming lessons.

      Westerners have failed themselves by buying into the myth of 'well care' and stress management. It's just not that simple.

  69. Chris Knight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a penis stretcher. Wanna try it?

  70. It was inevitable... by tlambert · · Score: 2

    It was inevitable... Microsoft makes people pay for their beta's, and now Celera is making people pay to provide them with more information about the human genome, which would have otherwise cost them $600k a pop to sequence out themselves.

    I think this is a good thing, since they will drive down the price, and they will get a broader information base than just Ventner's own genes: what's been sequenced is *a* human genome, not *the* human genome.

    On the privacy side of things, I'd just as soon keep the contents of my chromosomes to myself (particularly 6, 11, 12, 17, 21, and 23), thanks, but that said, I'd like to read it myself and compare it to statistical data, without anyone looking over my shoulder, or writing my name down in a database next to the information.

    -- Terry

  71. Re:I already own this... [so?] by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd tend to think of DNA mapping more parallels data recovery services. Sure you physically /own/ that hard drive that won't spin, but you won't be able to get any useful information from it until you have a professional read it for you.

    Sure you might /own/ that strand of genetic matereal inside your body, but what does it mean to you without being mapped?

  72. Similar to DNAPrint Genomics by carcosa30 · · Score: 1

    DNAPrint Genomics (DNAP) on Friday announced a service where they will tell you your racial makeup. Such and such percentage of Islander, Caucasian, African, et cetera. This stuff may seem frivolous, but there are people who care immensely about that kind of thing-- one very large group is Mormons. I recall reading about their geneology database; supposedly it used rather innovative technology (this was a few years back.) The serious uses will come when such things as drug side effects become predictable by DNA samples. There are certain drugs, like statins, that have a high rate of side effects or inefficacy, and the reasons for these are apparently genetic-- some people are just not responsive to them, or it causes damage to some obscure vulnerability that others may not have. Apparently DNAP is working on tests for statin drugs that will predict drug response and side effects. Becomes especially important when you're a cancer patient with only enough time to try one treatment when, say, five are available. You want to know which of those five is going to offer the highest chances of success based on your genetics and the exact genetic pattern of the cancer... This field is predictive genomics and it's going to be huge.

    --
    Intolerance for ambiguity is the mark of the authoritarian personality.
  73. Bases? by threephaseboy · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    All your bases are belong to us!
    -- Gov't

    --
    .
    1. Re:Bases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, the gumby guy was a fucking pervert...

      Gumby, Pokey, Trickle and Goo????

      Any decent UnitedStatesman will see this for what it is worth, a devious sexual plot trying to undermine the youth of America!

      I shit you not my friends, the creator of Gumby wants us all to be his sex slaves!!!!

  74. So what....? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry to have to post anonymously, but this is gonna be a little controversial and I don't want y'all to hate me ;)

    I'm not exactly sure what's wrong with DNA-based cost scaling.

    I mean, look, if you're a certain age, you pay more for car insurance.

    Your prior existing medical conditions and lifestyle already also determine how much you pay for health insurance.

    Why is it wrong to include genetic information in this evaluation? If you are genetically inclined to get a certain type of cancer, why shouldn't you pay more for cancer-related health services? If you're genetically prone to alcoholism, shouldn't your car insurance reflect that?

    These seem like they could be perfectly legitimate factors, just like other less-biomedical factors already in use in the insurance industry. The risks of insurance are regularly judged by your demographics and the statistical risk/probability of the insurance company paying you.

    So what's the objection? Is there something magical about DNA that it shouldn't be included in your health profile?

  75. Anyone agree? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Meanwhile, there are a billion people with perfectly good genetics trying to stay alive on $6.21 a month. Do you know how much good you could do with a half million dollars in a third world country?

  76. Not Funny by foo+fighter · · Score: 3, Funny

    I see alot of comments joking about already owning their gene map and about releasing their map under the GPL.

    No, you don't and no, you can't.

    Most of the genes in your body are already patented, trademarked, and/or copyrighted. Those that aren't will be within the next few years.

    We don't own our own bodies.

    I hope that literally scares the shit out of you. It did to me: I locked myself in my bathroom until I could cope with the insanity of some corporation owning the natural devices that construct humans.

    Wired had a very informative article on this some time back. Also, you can Google for the info and you'll find it.

    What really scares me is that I've got at least 80 years left to live. I'm going to be fighting and putting up with a lot of shit before I can finally rest.

    It'd be nice if some of you would give me a hand.

    --
    obviously no deficiencies vs. no obvious deficiencies
    1. Re:Not Funny by Dirtside · · Score: 2

      I thought that what those biotech companies had patents on was methods for testing for the presence of particular genes. That's markedly different than owning a patent on a gene itself.

      --
      "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
  77. In the undying words of Bender: by RPoet · · Score: 2

    "There! Now no one can say I don't own John Larroquette's spine!"

    --
    "Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
  78. And the business plan is... by Kjella · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    1. Make rich people pay for their own gene map
    2. Find statistic corrolations from those maps to diseases, disabilities or lifespan
    3. Profit

    Uhh wait.... shouldn't there be a ??? in there somewhere?

    Kjella

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  79. Gene sequencing won't magically keep you healthy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject.

  80. Imagine... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This company makes a super secret experiment for some ultra secret organisation and it somehow goes wrong, projects gets confused and as a result, millions of baby BillG's born!

    Well OSS World can produce RMS'es in that case eh?

  81. Quality Control? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's see ... I could take the already available human genome sequence, take out a few Adenines and Thymines here, add a few Guanines and Cytosines there, and sell it to you as "yours". And I can do that in a couple of minutes. And Mr/Ms Millionaire, you wouldn't know the difference.

  82. DNA+Clonong = Celebrity sex toys by docbrown42 · · Score: 1

    I can see the DNA records of famous celebrities being sold off-shore to black market cloning labs, and producing celebrity look-a-like "sex-toys" to rich clients (delivery time= 15+years without some sort of "force growth" technology).

    If you could afford it, who wouldn't want to have their own little Brittney (or other flavor of the moment sex object), raised to completely adore you?

    --
    Ed Wedig
    Graphic design services
    docbrown.net
  83. Venter is an ego manic by fain0v · · Score: 1

    He secretly sequenced his own dna during the human genome project. That is the scientific equivalent of Neil Armstrong stepping onto the moon and saying "HI MOM!"

  84. So find out what the problems are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "We know very little about the link between differences in genes and ill health."

    What better way to find out the link between ill health and differences in genes than through people *paying* you to map their genes?
    Sure, it could be considered a whole bunch of case studies, but it's better than what we have right now. The opportunity is a great one. The funding for running the process up to mapping the gene is paid for by the customer, who (in my perfect world) signs an agreement to allow testing to be done with a copy of that map, and a history of the illnesses present in the customer's life. They could even offer a discount if the customer allowed the Dr.s to follow up on future illnesses.

    Of course, that would mean the rich would have to be scientifically minded, whereas they're more like "blah blah blah... I love me... blah blah blah"

    Anonymous Coward

  85. Moore's Law of gene analysis by peter303 · · Score: 2

    Because gene analysis is mainly an information enterprise, it will follow Moore's Law and drop a zero in price every five years or so. The first reason is that gene analysis is computer intensive. Celera and the Human Genome Project own some of the largest computer complexes in he world for reassembling shotgun gene pieces. Thus gene analysis will piggy back computer advances.
    Second, gene analysis is getting smarter. Coding genes only occupy 2% of the genome. Of this, only 0.1% differs between individual beings. this cuts the analysis problem from 3.2 billion bases to about 100,000 bases. Mapping which 100,000 bases are important is the next stage of technology.
    In summary, instead of a month and $600K, in 20 years your should do this in an hour for $50.

  86. Attack of the clones? by EMH_Mark3 · · Score: 1

    Oh come on, this is so obviously just a way for some big corporation to clone celebrities and sell them back to rich geeks :)

    --
    Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me
  87. Beyond This Horizon by HiThere · · Score: 2

    I don't know Gattaca, outside of having the vague notion that it was dystopian. But you might look into an old Heinlein novel called "Beyond This Horizon". He envisions a society that uses this kind of technique, but which is also quite libertarian. (Mind you, he was quite down on genetic modification rather than selection...)

    The technology does not determine the kind of society. It determines the range of kinds of societies. We already have all the technical capability needed to create a truly dystopian society, and we have had it for decades. (We seem to be edging that way, but certainly not at a rate limited by technical capabilities.)

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  88. Venter is smarter than that by roberto0 · · Score: 1

    I don't believe Venter's idea is to sequence someone's entire genome. I think Venter plans to sequences the sections of people's genomes that contain known genes.
    You see, even though there are 4 billion base pairs, There are still only about 30,000 genes. Even at 1000bp per gene (which is a good average if you want to include exons and introns), that's still only about 30 million base pairs.

    All they have to do is have the right set of primers on hand (which they already do because they sequenced the whole thing already). So Celera is in a unique position to do this without too much of a startup or operating cost.

    Don't worry, though. This kind of thing will remain cost-prohibitive for almost everyone else for centuries.

    --
    Those who can, do. Those who can't, simulate.
    1. Re:Venter is smarter than that by Llyr · · Score: 1

      I don't believe Venter's idea is to sequence someone's entire genome. I think Venter plans to sequences the sections of people's genomes that contain known genes.
      You see, even though there are 4 billion base pairs, There are still only about 30,000 genes. Even at 1000bp per gene(which is a good average if you want to include exons and introns), that's still only about 30 million base pairs.
      All they have to do is have the right set of primers on hand (which they already do because they sequenced the whole thing already). So Celera is in a unique position to do this without too much of a startup or operating cost.


      Not only that, but they can use the genes from Venter's sequence as probes, enabling them to map most of the genes in each genome without having to do very much sequencing. The bases they would need to sequence can be restricted to where they differ from the known sequence.

      Now, as Venter's own genome is the source of much of the Celera sequence, and the clients will be rich, expect them to be mostly white males whose sequence will be a lot like his (so not much difference to sequence).

      Mind you, I wouldn't expect this self-selecting group of clients to produce any decent statistics about gene proportions in the general population, only in the rich population... but perhaps that's all they're concerned about. The Celera science board may not be too pleased, however, as they're already not happy about the effect that including Venter's DNA in their sequence has had on the supposedly general sequence map.

  89. Nature versus nurture by mec · · Score: 1
    For $600k each, I could do other things for my kids:
    • Send them to an excellent school.
    • Take time off work so that I can be there for them.
    • Not have a television set (hey, this one is free).
    • Feed them nutritious food.
    • Help them play sports (whatever sport they like).
    • Help them play music (whatever instrument they like).
    • Buy them a good computer with good software.
    • Take them to museums.
    • Take them on interesting vacation trips.
    • Buy them lots and lots of books.
    • Pay LOTS and LOTS of attention to them as they grow up.

    Most of these are $1k/year items, some of them are $10k/year, some of them cost no money and just take time.

    Some parents do these things. And some parents park their children in front of the television, feed them Domino's Pizza and Coke, and never look at their child's homework. This difference in nurturing already exists! In my opinion, this has much more impact on a child's life than Gattaca-style "make them a few percent stronger".
    1. Re:Nature versus nurture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fool!
      I will do both and create superbabies capable of taking over your pathetic existence. All will bow before the might of the Super-foetus!

      Or maybe The Fantastic Foetus!
      Yeah, super powerful foetus endowed with the strength of ten men! And a giant winky!

      Yeah!yeah!oooooohhhhhh YEAH!

  90. Re:Fear by Grue · · Score: 1

    Now.. imagine that every company did that. You would be overloaded with advertising targeted to you, and in addition, maybe I don't WANT SuperPharm knowing that I have some rare neurodegenerative disease or something. The point is the choice is removed from the person to decide who gets what information, information that is personal to them.

  91. Movies == Neo-Bibles by Baldrson · · Score: 1, Troll
    does this scream "Gattaca" to anyone else?

    So what if it does? There used to be this standard response to situations which was "The good book says..." and then the story that was told in the Bible that supposedly told how to live in the present day. So we are supposed to believe Danny DiVito more than Moses these days?

  92. Re:Fear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then just cancel your landline, and go with a cell phone for all you communique... Many places now have laws about telemarketing to those.

  93. "Only a rope can kill me"--Ahab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd vote for date. What if "method" was something like "heart attack" or "terrorist?"