(CD) Pirates Take to the Ocean

rammstein_rulz writes "www.cdfreaks.com reports that asian CD pirates now produce thousands of pirated VCD's on anchored ships in international waters to avoid getting caught. Malaysian marine police have been asked to be on the lookout for pirate ships"

Comments

I wanna say it first...

[GeekyMike]

ARRR... hoist the jolly roger and walk the plank

Re:I wanna say it first...

[The Importance of]

LawMeme has an entire post on this in pirate lingo - Shiver Me Timbers! Pirates Take to the High Seas

Re:I wanna say it first...

[Jucius Maximus]

You're too late! Worldwide Talk Like a Pirate Day was back on Sept 20th!

Re:I wanna say it first...

[uberdave]

When I was growing up, the phrase was "I was BORN on a pirate ship". By pulling your mouth open to a wide grin with your fingers, you distort the pronunciation of the phrase. "Pirate" sounds like "pile of" and the P in "ship" sounds like a T.

International Waters

[kila_m]

If they are in international waters.. what are the legal implications ? Whos Jurisdiction etc .. would they come under ?

Re:International Waters

[Anonymous Coward]

The RIAA's. Just wait for them to start issuing letters of marquee.

Re:International Waters

[gmuslera]

I think the problem will be selling/distributing (under some national land and laws) not making

Re:International Waters

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, very few laws exist in international waters. That's why whaling and such is legal when boats get far enough out. Some countries have laws covering what you can and can't do as a citizen even outside of the country, but to my knowledge it's perfectly legal to sink a ship if it's attempting to commit piracy or other theft of goods.

I think I heard something about the Malaysians, with the support of some movie companies, planning to launch a few 'enforcer' vessels to this effect.

Re:International Waters

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe that a vessel in internation waters is subject to the laws of its flag country -- the country in which the vessel is registered.

Re:International Waters

[MaxVlast]

Marque. But kudos for knowing the word!

I'm just glad to finally see the convergence of software and floating piracy. I, for one, will proudly say 'arr' every time I use a bit of pirated software. (On my friend's computer, that is!)

Arrrrr!

Re:International Waters

[Zeinfeld]

Actually, very few laws exist in international waters. That's why whaling and such is legal when boats get far enough out. Some countries have laws covering what you can and can't do as a citizen even outside of the country, but to my knowledge it's perfectly legal to sink a ship if it's attempting to commit piracy or other theft of goods.

Wrong, the law of the sea is probably the most extensively litigated aspect of international law. International law was originally invented to cover the sea. The London Times reports on maritime law cases all the time.

The basic principle is that every ship is registered in a national shipping registry and is subject to the laws of that country. So if a ship is registered in Panama the laws of Panama apply.

A ship that does not have a registration is subject to the laws of any nation that cares to enforce them. An unregistered ship is likely to be seized each time it calls at a port.

It would not be legal for a merchant ship to attack another for any reason other than self defense. However a coastguard or navy vessel can do so.

One wonders if the story is a spoof since being at sea does nothing to improve the legal situation and the mechanics of producing CDs on board a ship do not sound promissing, I doubt that CD pressing plants are designed to be used on ship.

Re:International Waters

[SmallFurryCreature]

Well the legal status is probably similar to the radio stations that used to broadcast from offshore to holland. I don't know if this happenend anywhere else but the the netherlands is a small country with the heavy population centers near the coast. So a ship in international waters could reach a sizeable part of the population. This was done to avoid the laws on radio regulation and to avoid having their equipment seized constantly. The police could only interfere when a storm would knock the vessel into national waters.

The same probably applies here. The pressed CD's don't suddenly become legal but the police won't be able to seize the equipment involved as long as it stays out at sea. Of course the old radio pirates went on to become legal radio/tv stations when it was shown that a large portion of the citizens supported them. I doubt the same will occur with cd-pirates.

Re:International Waters

[ergo98]

One wonders if the story is a spoof since being at sea does nothing to improve the legal situation and the mechanics of producing CDs on board a ship do not sound promissing, I doubt that CD pressing plants are designed to be used on ship.

Agreed, personally I saw this as an April-fools type story when I saw it: It sounds more like the fabrication of someone who was trying to think of a real pseudo-ironic (not literally ironic, but in the manner that most people use the term ironic): "Isn't that ironic? They're producing CDs, making themselves pirates, on ships! HAHA!". Legally, as you said, this has zero merit. The excuse that they're doing it to avoid detection has no validity either: One can hide a dupe machine anywhere with zero chance of getting caught-> Getting caught comes when you start to sell the product and the authorities work themselves up the chain until they're busting in your door.

I'd love to here from someone in Malaysian confirming this story, because personally it sounds like BS.

Re:International Waters

[Melantha_Bacchae]

An AC wrote:

> I believe that a vessel in internation waters is
> subject to the laws of its flag country -- the
> country in which the vessel is registered.

Then these ships must fly a gold sun cross on a field of blue, the flag of that island whose language is song. Its divine Queen has never recognized the property rights, real or "intellectual", of the media sharks before ("Mosura" 1961, "Mosura tai Gojira" 1964, or "Gojira, Ebira, Mosura: Nankai no Dai Ketto" 1966), and I don't see her starting anytime soon.

Seriously, I think it bears pointing out that these ships are pressing VCDs of movies so we are talking MPAA here -- let us get our sharks straight. The market for these unauthorized copies is to people in the region who would never, ever, be able to afford a full price DVD. As with software, cheap versions of the hardware is a seriously major purchase for them (assuming they don't just use a computer at an internet cafe). Just forget about their having anything but pocket change to pay for the software/movies/etc. The street vendors hawking these unauthorized copies sell at what the market would bear. The media sharks do not sell to these people, so there is demand, but not much money, and no legitimate products to fill the demand.

The people out in boats making these VCDs are *not* real pirates. They do not hijack ships, murder, or rape (at least, that we know of). Yes, they are breaking a law, but so is the average American who speeds on the way to work, parks without paying the meter, or lies on income tax forms.

If the media sharks were remotely interested in actually putting an end to this terrible crime, they'd sign these "pirates" on as local distributors for a cut of their profits! The people get their movies at a price they can afford, the newly ordained distributors can conduct their business under more pleasant conditions, and the police can save their efforts for those who continue to prefer breaking the law and, gasp, actual murderers! The sharks save money on enforcement, and make a little money from their new distributors.

But no, that would be common sense. We can't have that!

Bells are ringing: Mothra, Mothra! Every heart is calling: Mothra, Mothra!
Come on, Tok Wira, these sharks have gotta pay! New Kirk calling Mothra, we need you today!

G Countdown: 23 days (www.godzillaoncube.com)

Re:International Waters

[chamenos]

i'm not from malaysia, but i'm from singapore, which is just south of malaysia.

i personally don't think this story is false, as the state of lawlessness in malaysia can be quite bad at times.

just a year or two ago, bandits masqueraded as military officials and stole over a hundred M16s from a malaysian armoury in broad daylight. another bunch of them stole some steyr AUGs, and both gangs went on a spate of robberies before the authorities managed to catch up with them.

in view of the above, i don't think malaysian software pirates shifting their base of operations to a ship is that unlikely =) besides, the malaysian authorities recent clamp-down on software pirates has been quite well publicized so such a reaction from the pirates may not be that far-fetched.

Re:International Waters

[sadtrev]

There is plenty of trade in Pirate software, VCDs and, over the past 6 months DVDs made in Malaysia and sold in Johore Bharu - just over the causeway from Singapore at abut Rm8 (US$1.50) each. Most of these are for the local (ASEAN) market but I have seen plenty of examples of DVDs that are targeted at expatriates and business travellers.
As for police reinforcement - I've seen it for myself - In a shopping mall called Holiday Plaza where a lot of the pirate electronics is openly traded - all the stalls will close down for half a day every month or so. The police will perform a token raid, fine any traders that didn't pay the bribe beforehand and leave.
Business can then proceed.
I suspect that the authorities are slightly more serious about staming down on the manufacture rather than the sale of contraband CDs but even so, a Royal Malaysian Navy patrol vessel raiding a token pirate ship will serve nothing more than government propaganda. One or two stories on the evening news.
The Singaporeans will say they were Malaysian, the malaysians will say they were Indonesian and the Indonesians will say they were Chinese.

Re:International Waters

[Skuld-Chan]

It may not improve the legal situation - but frankly its harder to find and sieze ships that are 18-20 miles off the shore.

Re:International Waters

[Catbeller]

I doubt that CD pressing plants are designed to be used on ship.

Hm. I think newer ship designs, using deep pontoons for flotation rather than hull-on-the-water, can achieve vibration and roll free sailing.

Or, you could build some bizarre suspension system for the burning factory.

So, it's possible that it could be done. Interesting story.

Re:International Waters

[Blue Stone]

"If the media sharks were remotely interested in actually putting an end to this terrible crime, they'd sign these "pirates" on as local distributors for a cut of their profits! The people get their movies at a price they can afford, the newly ordained distributors can conduct their business under more pleasant conditions, and the police can save their efforts for those who continue to prefer breaking the law and, gasp, actual murderers!"

Yes, but if they did do that, the reasonably priced products might find their way into the marketplaces of the Northern Economic Bloc, and they don't want that to happen.

Re:International Waters

[mbogosian]

One wonders if the story is a spoof since being at sea does nothing to improve the legal situation and the mechanics of producing CDs on board a ship do not sound promissing, I doubt that CD pressing plants are designed to be used on ship.

Maybe they learned everything they know about law in international waters from the the Simpsons....

Re:International Waters

[Reziac]

I thought they already had.. isn't that what this latest "license to hack" bill is all about??

Of course, back in the day, there was often no practical difference between privateers and pirates...

Re:International Waters

[1qaz2wsx]

> If the media sharks were remotely interested in actually putting an end to this terrible crime, they'd sign these "pirates" on as local distributors for a cut of their profits!

Of course, if greed had any bounds, Martha Stewart would not have destroyed a business worth millions to save thousands in an about to die stock, and Tyco CEOs would not be led off in handcuffs for stiffing New York for sales tax on million dollar paintings....

Re:International Waters

[mpe]

Yup, it's possible, but it seems a bit like what people say about James Bond villians. It's all overly elaborate and unnecessarily expensive. This is a criminal enterprise about producing CDs as cheaply as possible to sell as many as possible. Such a ship would be expensive and a flashy high tech ship would probably draw unnecessary attention without camoflage (which would be easier for a land operation).

Unless it gets to difficult to do things like paying the manager of a pressing plant to run off a few (thousand) extra...

Re:International Waters

[StarKruzr]

What are you talking about? "License to hack" bill?

Re:International Waters

[Reziac]

The one that lets the RIAA have their way with P2P networks; much-discussed hereabouts over the past month.

Re:International Waters

[pyrote]

I'll admit, it is cool but to boil it down it's just crime. actually I recently saw a simpsons episode where homer went off shore so he could get alcohol after midnight. it had people copying videos and stuff in international waters. fitting for a current story.

Piracy on the high seas?

[Anonymous Coward]

England certainly still has the death penalty for this (along with treason and one other I cannot remember).. does this mean we are going to start seeing people hang again? ;)

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[ColdGrits]

Off topic I know, but the third crime for which the UK (not just England, please note) has the death penalty is "arson in a naval dockyard".

Mind you, the thought of software pirates swinging from the gallows is an interesting image! Althogh I think hanging Spammers would be more likely to meet with universal support :-)

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[Krapangor]

Nonsense. There is no death penalty in any state of the European Union. We are civilized people here. That's a reason why the US can't join the European Union.

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[thesadmac]

I was under the impression that treason was still a crime pusnishable by death in England. I'd never heard the dockyard one before though.

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[ColdGrits]

Actually, no it doesn't, because it has yet to be proven to be legally binding.

Please check YOUR facts!

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[thesadmac]

Well that's why I said "I was under the impression", rather than "this is the case".

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[Anonymous Coward]

The web has this to say about it: "When the death penalty was abolished in December 1969, this was only for murder, the death penalty still remained in force on the statute book for 3 offences, Treason, Piracy and Burning Down the Royal Dock Yards, though the last execution for these particular offences was in 1942 for Treason and resulted in the execution of a soldier. But later, goes on to say (?) "In practice the death penalty was suspended for all crimes in 1969, but formally the death penalty came to an end in the 1990,s after much discussion within the Home Office and with the UK being a member of the EU, this brought the Death Penalty to a final end. " So what's the real story? (source http://www.policestop.org.uk/death_penalty.html)

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[MaxVlast]

Keep whistling that tune until you're keelhauled and your copies of Photoshop and Windows XP are thrown over the gunwales.

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[benwb]

The us has about as much chance of agreeing to join the european union as france has of seceding from europe and becoming the 51st state.

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[Sentry21]

Sadly, in 1998, the UK abolished the death penalty for all offences. I suppose this is a good thing (I'm anti-death-penalty), but I don't mind treasoners hanging from the rafters. Oh well.

--Dan

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[Zarquon]

I thought the reason was that since we couldn't even figure out how to use the metric system, we had no hope of figuring out the euro.. :)

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[BorgDrone]

I'm afraid you quite missed out on many of the things that make us a great nation.

To what things are you referring ? The lack of freedom in the US ? The fact that the US is run by corporations instead of by representatives of the people ?
I actually can't think of anything that makes the US 'better' than europe. I as a european can't think of a single thing in which I envy US-ians.

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[Albanach]

The death penalty for all remaining offences was abolished in the 1998 Crime adn Disorder Act

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[Alien Being]

"There is no death penalty in any state of the European Union. We are civilized people here."

You sound like pure Eurotrash.

Very few death sentences are actually carried out in the US. From 1930 - 1999, it averaged about 60/year.

The US population consists largely of people who escaped from European monarchies and dictatorships. Joining the EU is low priority and would necessitate changing the name to "American/European Union".

God bless the Atlantic!

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[multriha]

Let me get this argument straight,

the US is civilized because they don't do that morally wrong and uncivilized thing very often?

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[WhiteKnight07]

We are civilized because we only do it when society deems it necessary.

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[syrinx]

That's a reason why the US can't join the European Union.

And here I thought it was because the US is *not in Europe*.

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[ErikZ]

I thought the reason the US couldn't join the European Union was, like, it's in Europe.

Oh yeah, and if the US switched it's currency to the Euro, what would they use to prop up the Euro?

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[Snork Asaurus]

That's a reason why the US can't join the European Union.

I would have thought that the fact that a country is not in Europe would have some bearing on their eligibility. Or is this some sort of 'virtual' Europe of which you speak?

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[Alan Partridge]

except for all of those deaths involving legally held firearms, of course

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[WhiteKnight07]

Which are commited either by criminals or in self defense against said criminals. Then again there are all those deaths involving legally held baseball bats and other blunt objects. I guess we should outlaw those to.

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[threephaseboy]

Dont you mean 52nd? I think 51st is already taken.

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[Alien Being]

If you add up the pluses and minuses of our society, 60 fried scumbags/year hardly makes us uncivilized.

The death penalty was reenacted in this country by democratic process. Apparently, there are many people who do not share your opinion that capital punishment is immoral.

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[Sri Lumpa]

"Dont you mean 52nd? I think 51st is already taken."

Yes, by the UK.

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[superyooser]

"Yes, you must execute anyone who murders another person, for to kill a person is to kill a living being made in God's image."

- God

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[SkulkCU]

At this point, that's more likely to happen than the UK joining the EU...

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[mpe]

There is no death penalty in any state of the European Union. We are civilized people here. That's a reason why the US can't join the European Union.

Not that the US would probably want to.
Of more direct relevence is that this no death penalty clause trumps any extradition treaties EU members might have with any other nations. If someone may face execution they cannot be extradited. The US is in the same catagory as any other nation which allows execution here.

Re:Piracy on the high seas?

[Guppy06]

So you're saying that it's more civilized to lock a person up, stuck with the same four walls for however many decades it takes for them to finish their natural lives in such an unnatural environment?

Forget the "who's going to pay for it?" question, that in and of itself seems more "cruel and unusual" than simply ending their life.

ARRRRRRRR, matie!!

[spoonist]

Arrrr... Shiver me CD burners!

Re:ARRRRRRRR, matie!!

[handsomepete]

ArrrrMS says information *wants* to be free!

Who to blame?

[gmuslera]

Years calling them "software pirates", in some moment they will be confused enough to need to be real pirates after all.

Cheaper by the million

[mangu]

Why bother with small scale copying at all? Instead of trying to impose non-working copy-protection on consumer hardware, the media industry should focus on large scale copying.

If I was trying to make money in IP violations, this is how I would do it:

1) Forge documents from media companies, ordering large batches of CDs and DVDs from established manufacturers.

2) Sell those records to wholesalers, which might or might not be aware of the scam.

3) Profit

Re:Cheaper by the million

[suss]

3) Profit
4) Prison

Re:Cheaper by the million

[ShoeHead]

Woah. So that's what step 2 is. Everyone else guards it like a trade secret.

It's all starting to make sense now.

Re:Cheaper by the million

[jcknox]

So, did this guy just violate the DMCA?

Why use a boat..

[Perdo]

When you can do the same thing at your desk?

Someone tell those guys not to take the term "Pirate" litterally.

"Suck Emma, suck. 'Blow' is just a figure of speech!"

good grief

[Em Emalb]

Heh, I guess pirate was correct after all.

If there is money to be made, crooks will invent new ways to make it.

Shiver me timbers, mates! Need two million copies of Brittany Spears today, or there will be no rum for you, scallywags!

Pirates on a ship

[Imois]

How appropriate!

But...

[tsa]

I always learnt that on a ship the laws of the country the ship sails under apply. If that's true what's the problem?

Maybe they should start a pirate radio station

[Goonie]

to advertise their pirate CD operation.

I have a 45 of "Knights of the Black Forest" if anyone needs one .... ;)

Instant Karma to anyone who gets the reference

What I found to be funny...

[Travoltus]

...was that the page with the news article featured links right to where you could purchase the CD ROMs and RW's, plus the software to burn the CDs.
Which basically means anyone can just follow the provided links to buy all the sh-t (except the boat) that will enable them to jump right into the offshore piracy business!

Re:What I found to be funny...

[Nick Harkin]

Well, if you want to spend lots of time moored out in the sea, running your computer off a battery or generator, at threat from real pirates and so forth, be my guest.

Count me out tho. :)

Re:What I found to be funny...

[MaxVlast]

There's the real humor: What are the chances these guys will be gotten by real pirates? It's still a big problem in the southern Asian seas. "Arrrr, gimme all yer CD-Rs." "Aye matie, but we'rrrrre pirates too." "No ye arrrrrn't, yerrrrr just geeks. Well tanned geeks. Arrrrr."

Re:What I found to be funny...

[Flounder]

I worked for a Pirate radio station in Tijuana a few years ago. Technically, they weren't illegal, they just had their station and transmitter about 150yds from the border in San Diego and blasted about 75,000 watts.

They had a "subsidiary" that was stationed on a old oil drilling ship, that sat moored off outside in international waters off the coast of NYC, and broadcast at 60,000 watts. People there would work and live on the ship, only going ashore about once a month for supplies.

Re:What I found to be funny...

[MaxVlast]

Further evidence that pirate jokes are among the funniest things in the world.

Though they're CD-arrrrrrs. :-)

Re:What I found to be funny...

[Zara2]

What station was that? I just might have listened to it.

Yea I know its off-topic but interesting too.

Solar Power?

[remax]

Generators? Somehow I don't think so.... unless they turn out a LOT of coasters!

Legality ?

[Taco Cowboy]

Even when they're NOT in international waters, the so-called "legality" is just as blurred.

What's "piracy" anyway ?

If RIAA wants to charge people an arm and a leg for trying out songs, and themselves (the RIAA) are known to NOT PAYING THE ROYALTIES to the artists, who's the REAL "pirate" ?

What the so-called "CD-pirates" are doing is just this - they are doing one thing that got the MPAA, RIAA, BSA and whatever hopping mad, as mad as what the DCMA is doing to many of us.

I am NOT saying what the "CD-pirates" are doing is right, but just that, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Period.

Re:What caused this?

[thesadmac]

So if a bunch of guys were say, printing money and giving it out for a reduced cost, they should be allowed to get along with it inside the country instead of it being illegal? Instead of the poor sods having to hide away. Yeah, I see your point.

Re:i say aaaar ! all the time but I aint a pirate

[chamenos]

you can only get your hands on them if you're in the vincinity.....like in thailand, indonesia, singapore, etc. your best bet is still warez if you're not living in any of the above :)

Hilarious

[ffatTony]

Police in Penang last week launched "Operation Green Ribbon" to nab peddlers of illegal CDs and VCDs and Mazlan said they had already arrested four retailers and seized over 1,000 pirated copies.

I went to Penang just recently and there were literally multi-floor malls selling professional copies of Oracle for $20, dvds for $2-5 (based upon quality), Adobe products, MS products, etc. It was so vast it was staggering. One guy took a duffel bag overflowing with dvds/software back with us.

Basically what I'm getting at is if they've only found 1000 pirated copies, then they are either totally inept or not trying very hard.

Re:Hilarious

[merky1]

They only nabbed those four because they were late on there "insurance" payments...

Re:Hilarious

[Anonymous Coward]

remember, this is the same as any "war". They are going to find a limited amount of anything (ie. drugs).

"Some guy wen down to X and bought 200 pounds of pot."

Newsflash: "Medicinal marijuana grower busted with 16 plants. An estimated 10oz's was taken of the streets. This marijuana would have gotten to a bunch of disabled people and AIDS patients. Glad that we saved the planet from these assholes!"

Re:Hilarious

[gotr00t]

Yes, I agree that the law enforcement around the far east are doing a horrid job. Apparently, last time I went to China, there were literally entire floors of a mall covered with retailers of pirated CD's. Most of them were selling the exact same thing, hinting at a similar souce. Some of the packages were printed well, and had a good design to them, and most of the CDs were of poor quality, but were pressed, and not burned. There were also CD's that came in packages that looked like it came out of an inkjet printer, and the CD itself was a CD-R.

Apparently, these operations can never really be stopped because while I was there, I literally saw police go and buy some copies of some VCD's (not seized, bought). These people just don't realize that their personal gain in purchasing and selling cheap software may be good for them in the short run, but disasterous to their nation in the long run.

Re:Hilarious

[MightyTribble]

I went to the new mall in Malacca two years ago; same deal. Fake CDs as far as the eye could see, for open sale in the middle of the building.

If all they got were four folks and 1,000 CD, then they weren't trying *at all*.

Re:Hilarious

[ponxx]

> but disasterous to their nation in the long run

I'm not saying i agree with their methods, but how exactly is it going to be disastrous for China in the long run? No-one would buy this software there at full price as it's simply not affordable. With the pirated versions people gain knowledge and skills that can get them jobs everywhere in the world! And it advances Chinas computer industry, so until the US lays a boycot on them for lack of copy-right prevention it'll do nothing but good for the country, seeing it doesn't loose any profit itself

Re:Hilarious

[Xpilot]

I live in Penang, and sometimes raids are advertised in the papers. You'll see headlines such as "Raid Next Week", and all the shops close on that day. Neat huh?

There are surprise raids sometimes, but pirates somehow find out about it before hand, and all the shops close on that day. Some surprise.

There really isn't any way to elimainate piracy in Asian countries when the price of licensed software is so high. In the States, $100 for a word processor may be affordable, but when it gets converted to Malaysian currency, it becomes 380 Malaysian ringgit. Considering the per capita income of most Malaysians to be around 1000 to 1500 Malaysian ringgit, it's considered pricy (and the fact that people can easily buy the pirated version for 7 ringgit doesn't help the situation either).

To reduce piracy in these parts, software companies should price their software at prices that are affordable from a local point of view.

Re:Hilarious

[Jeff DeMaagd]

If all they got were four folks and 1,000 CD, then they weren't trying *at all*.

I think it must have been a "show".

I understand China performs a show whenever Western companies complain of copyright violations during critical negotiations of some sort, just round up and destroy a bunch of fake goods hoping that the West accept their claim that they are trying.

It sounds to me like someone is making payoffs to prevent a *real* bust.

Re:Hilarious

[Jeff DeMaagd]

No-one would buy this software there at full price as it's simply not affordable. With the pirated versions people gain knowledge and skills that can get them jobs everywhere in the world!

Exactly how did these people that can't afford software manage to find hardware to run it on? Did they steal it?

Re:Hilarious

[Xpilot]

The hardware isn't cheap. In fact, it's more expensive here in Malaysia where I live than in the US. 1 USD is approximately 3.8 ringgit (Malaysian money). Now if a person has blown 3000 Malaysian ringgit in hardware (about 2 months salary for an average person here), he finds out he needs to spend about 1000 ringgit more for an operating system and an office suite. Then the ultra-cheap pirated versions are really tempting indeed, since one can get any kind of software for only about 7 ringgit apiece.

Re:Hilarious

[WhiteKnight07]

To reduce piracy in these parts, software companies should price their software at prices that are affordable from a local point of view.

And of course as soon as they do that some bright person will buy a million or so copies for 7 riggit each, ship them to the US, sell them for $10 a pop and make a nearly $10 million. I'm sure that will help the software companies profit margins. There really isn't anything the companies can do to stop this sort of thing, that's just the way it is.

Re:Hilarious

[amorangi]

I've lived in Hong Kong and Philippines and am staggered by the scale of the malls in each place. In Hong Kong they'd raid a mall every 3 months and nab a couple of 12 or 13 year olds (un-prosecutable), and report it on the main TV news that they'd done a crack-down. It always made me laugh. In fact it's HARD to get unpirated software. The inflight magazine on Bangkok Airlines actually gives advice in buying pirated software and DVDs (DVDs are often of inferior quality).

Re:Hilarious

[2nd Post!]

Doesn't that mean Malaysian piracy efforts (selling Word for 7 ringgit) undermine Malaysian software development growth?

Who in Malay would want to write and develop any software when you could steal it down the street for 7 ringgit?

Isn't that reason enough for Malay to try to curb software piracy, in order to strengthen it's own IT industry? It's akin to the US trying to put tariffs on Japanese cars in order to make US cars more competitive. In this case, it would be Malay govt placing a 200% tax on non-native software, so that instead of 7 ringgit, it now costs 21 ringgit, with the extra income being funneled into software infrastructure and schools, or something.

Re:Hilarious

[freeweed]

And of course as soon as they do that some bright person will buy a million or so copies for 7 riggit each, ship them to the US, sell them for $10 a pop and make a nearly $10 million.

And that's one of the many reasons why things like Palladium are being developed - imagine region encoding on software. Except instead of a 2 or 3:1 price differential, we're talking 100 or 1000:1.

Re:Hilarious

[Xpilot]

Who in Malay would want to write and develop any software when you could steal it down the street for 7 ringgit?


The name of the country is Malaysia. Malay is the language and also the major ethnic race here.

The answer to your question is : almost nobody. Retail software is practically non-existant. The only job programmers get here is developing custom or in-house software. It's a sad state of affairs, but that's the reality of the situation here.

Re:Hilarious

[theLOUDroom]

If the software isn't in english it wouldn't sell very well :)

Re:Hilarious

[Skuld-Chan]

Reminds me of Vancouver BC... Seriously.

I don't live there (I have some relatives that do), but last time I went up to Vancouver and down to Richmond - I saw several shops who were selling VCD's, and Audio cd's for about 8$ a pop. Most of these disks were professionally printed, but one has to seriously wonder about why they were so cheap.

Re:Hilarious

[Sloppy]

To reduce piracy in these parts, software companies should price their software at prices that are affordable from a local point of view.

Uh.. yeah, that's what software needs: region codes!

Re:Hilarious

[Bartmoss]

Well the problem with that is that you end up either having a "grey" market of imports, or a region code type system. Somehow, that does not really strike me as being any better.

Then again, who would WANT a malaysian-only (language) version of windows 2000 in the US? not too many I guess.

Re:Hilarious

[Zork the Almighty]

Legit VCDs can go for $8 CDN. Compare the low quality video (spanned across multiple discs) to a $20 DVD, it stacks up. I'm not going to claim that the copies those shops are selling are legit, though... :)

Re:Hilarious

[Kanasta]

Hmm.. Nation that doesn't produce software, nation that can buy CDs for $5 instead of importing the same thing from the US for $1000. How is this disastrous to their nation in the long run?

Don't you know it's not even illegal in some countries? Is a kid in China earning $100/mth going to learn Oracle by using 3yrs of savings? I don't think so.

US law != world law

Re:Hilarious

[mpe]

I'm not saying i agree with their methods, but how exactly is it going to be disastrous for China in the long run? No-one would buy this software there at full price as it's simply not affordable. With the pirated versions people gain knowledge and skills that can get them jobs everywhere in the world!

If anything it is more of a threat to open source in these Asian countries than a direct threat to the countries themselves.

And it advances Chinas computer industry, so until the US lays a boycot on them for lack of copy-right prevention it'll do nothing but good for the country, seeing it doesn't loose any profit itself.

Easy access to American software could advance China's computer industry rather less than not having such easy access. You could argue that simply cloning US products dosn't do much to advance any Chinese industry. Especially something so trivial to clone as software.

Re:Hilarious

[tialaramex]

Building good distribution structures isn't disastrous. Setting expectations correctly (you buy software? For this price, I don't think you get support. Want some support? Pay for it) isn't disastrous.

The people who aren't thinking long term are the information hoarders. They imagine that they are creating wealth, but it's a spreadsheet illusion, just like Enron. Still Enron got their share of co-operation from the US government, and so do Bill and the Mouse. Illusory wealth is as good as the real thing so long as you don't try to spend it.

Real wealth is locked up in people. Copyright is a fools bargain unless you have more information than other people. When the US was younger it did exactly what Malaysia does now, in America printed books were cheaper because the foreign authors weren't getting paid.

So, on the one hand you can expect these nations to "grow out of it" if they are permitted an even standing in the market. On the other hand it's a bad deal for everyone anyway. Simple mental arithmetic is enough to tell us that charging for infinitely reproducible copies isn't a sustainable policy. With or without "pirates" the analogue age is over.

Re:Hilarious

[eechuah]

True, but not THAT many people use made in software nowadays. The VAST majority use Microsoft, Oracle, etc.

Non widely used software is much more likely to be developed by Malaysian programmers (ie. say, a palm pilot program, etc.) and is MUCH harder to find pirated (because demand is much lower).

So, I would say that piracy doesn't affect the local industry too much, because they couldn't compete with Microsoft and Adobe anyways. Heck, even the US IT industry can't come up with a company that can compete with Microsoft!!

Re:Hilarious

[2nd Post!]

LOL, well, 'compete' doesn't mean 'beat'!

We've got Apple (OS, software), we've got Corel (Office productivity), we've got Blizzard (video games), we've got Palm (PDAs), we've got ID software (3d graphics APIs), etc.

And all together now...

[Atsjoo]

A pirate I was meant to beeee Trim the sails and roam the C... D...

piracy

[karouser]

Well it's time to get out the guns and cutlasses and ....., no, realy I think that if as much effort was put into fixing the problem then there would be no problem. WELL MISter CHRIStian off the 'foresail, clear the poop deck, and make way for proffits.

Enemies of Your Friend Are Now Your Enemies

[reallocate]

This is an example of an unreasoned, apocalyptic extremism that plays into the hands of the forces the poster so adamantly attacks.

Playing word games with "piracy" is pointless. Producing unauthorized duplicates of commercial products is known as counterfeiting. Most countries have laws prohibiting the creation and distribution of counterfeit goods. It's as illegal to market a counterfeit CD of the current flavor-of-the-week pop band as it is to sell fake Rolex watches.

By glibly saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", all you've done is made more enemies: You have aligned yourself with counterfeiters, a tactic unlikely to draw support from the mainstream public.

The enemies of your new friend are now your enemies.

Re:Enemies of Your Friend Are Now Your Enemies

[shadowbearer]

"Producing unauthorized duplicates of commercial products is known as counterfeiting"

and forcing prices to be artificially high is known as "Price Fixing".

SB

Re:Enemies of Your Friend Are Now Your Enemies

[reallocate]

>> ...forcing prices to be artificially high is known as "Price Fixing.

So what? Pointing to high CD prices won't legalize counterfeiting.

This debate is not about the ability of college students to buy and copy music and movies as they see fit. The debate is about changing U.S. copyright law to ensure the interests of the public are addressed, rather than skewed in the interests of corporations with a lock on music distribution.

If you seriously want to change the status quo, get to work. Otherwise, understand that unthinking assertions do more harm than good.

Re:Enemies of Your Friend Are Now Your Enemies

[Kierthos]

Let me ask you this, though. If the prices of CDs went down to reflect the drop in costs of manufacturing the CDs, would many people be less inclined to use KaZaa or whatever to pirate them?

I mean, CDs should cost a lot less then they do. If they cost consumers less, there would probably be more sales. And therefore, with more sales, you have less people that need to pirate the songs.

Kierthos

Re:Enemies of Your Friend Are Now Your Enemies

[Golias]

If the prices of CDs went down to reflect the drop in costs of manufacturing the CDs, would many people be less inclined to use KaZaa or whatever to pirate them?

No.

Next question.

Re:Enemies of Your Friend Are Now Your Enemies

[Anonymous Coward]

Need to pirate the songs? It's not a friggin' dialysis machine - it's a CD. You don't need the latest CD. You might want it, but you don't need it. If I want to make a CD called "Fingernails down a blackboard" and sell copies for $500 each, that still doesn't entitle you to make copies of it & give them away or sell them for what they're "worth". I don't want to pay $10,000 for a wide-screen plasma TV. Does that mean I can justify stealing one because it costs too much? How about the latest P IV or Athlon which probably costs $400 or more right now - we all know it'll be under $100 in a year or so. If Intel & AMD won't sell it for the $0.02 worth of raw materials it took to make it, are we morally & legally justified in stealing it?

Re:Enemies of Your Friend Are Now Your Enemies

[Nogami_Saeko]

Rather a broad judgement don't you think?

Of course SOME people will always pirate stuff to get it for free, but there IS a magic number when it comes to buying things where people will just buy an original rather than deal with the hassle of getting it "for free".

Take a real-life example that actually happened a week ago to a friend of mine:

She found some local electronics store that was selling a new CD she wanted for $5 on a short promotional special. Rather than deal with the hassle of trying to get all the tracks on kazaa, etc. She just dropped $5 and has a nice original CD.

If the CD was $15, she probably would've downloaded it.

Myself, I have all of the tools I need at home to duplicate DVDs (region-free DVD-ROM, software utilities, and a DVD-R drive).

I don't - the reason being the price of DVDs, which is usually reasonable value for the money. Why should I spend hours of time and effort ripping/re-encoding a DVD to make a copy when I can just throw down a $20 and have an original?

My time and effort is worth more than the cost of the DVD, so I just buy it.

So there we have it - at some magical price-point, people WILL buy stuff, if for no other reason than the amount of work it entails to get it elsewhere (and having an original "anything" is nice too).

I trust I need not even comment on software companies like Adobe or Microsoft that sell their products in the hundreds or thousands of dollars, then whine about piracy...

Re:Enemies of Your Friend Are Now Your Enemies

[reallocate]

You don't "need" to steal anything, especially something as unimportant as popular music.

The price of a product has nothing to do with your own sense of ethics. If you aren't personally ashamed to be a thief, well, I guess you'll steal something.

Re:Enemies of Your Friend Are Now Your Enemies

[kableh]

You have aligned yourself with counterfeiters, a tactic unlikely to draw support from the mainstream public.

Perhaps this is just my raging cynicism kicking in, but the past couple of years have given me the impression that the RIAA et. al. ALREADY view us all as a bunch of theives. Yes, the parent your comment replies to is a bit extreme, but with the hyperbole Hilary Valenti spouts on a daily basis it is justified in my mind.

Re:Enemies of Your Friend Are Now Your Enemies

[kableh]

Thanks for making a gross generalization, and answering a valid question on behalf of all of us consumers.

Asshole.

Re:Enemies of Your Friend Are Now Your Enemies

[Kierthos]

Thank you for entirely ignoring my point and focusing on a point of grammar. Should I have "want" instead of "need"? Probably. It doesn't negate my point that there are people who would be perfectly willing to buy music instead of pirate it through KaZaa or what have you if the prices of CD were lower.

Oh, and I suspect that there are people who "need" to download music. Considering that there are "internet addicts", "e-mail addicts", "Everquest addicts", and so on, I'd imagine there are people out there who feel a psychological pressure to continue downloading as many songs as they can get through P2P services.

Kierthos

Re:Enemies of Your Friend Are Now Your Enemies

[reallocate]

Well, yes, that's right. The RIAA does think you're all a bunch of thieves.

Hyperbole is not justified. Hyperbole just strengthens the impression that people are simply trying to justify theft, rather than addressing the legitimate copyright and property issues that have surfaced via all this P2P noise.

This is a political and legal debate. It will be decided by votes in Congress and rulings from the Supreme Court.

Most of the U.S. public doesn't buy music often enough to care. Why should they care if it is legal for you to copy a track of music by some bar band that got a record deal? Talk to them about the price of food, electricty and health care and they might start paying attention.

Pick your fight. If you think copyright law needs to change, go for it. If you think CD prices are too high, stop buying CD's.

Re:Enemies of Your Friend Are Now Your Enemies

[Kierthos]

You too are ignoring my point in favour of a particularly useless ramble over a point of grammar. Yes, I probably should have said "want" instead of "need".

Big deal.

Here's a big difference between going out and stealing that $10,000 TV and downloading a song. With the TV there is a tangible item. It is property. If you steal it, that store has a loss to their inventory. If someone downloads a song or an entire CD from a P2P service, no store has lost that CD or that song. They still have the same inventory as before, but perhaps (and this is the important part) only have lost one customer. Businesses exist to make money. I'm not going to argue that. Most businesses that don't make money don't stick around for long, government subsidized ones notwithstanding. But the business (in this case a music store) did not lose any merchandise. Someone can still come in and buy that CD.

And how much does one song on a CD weigh? I can weigh the TV. How much is it worth? I can price TV's individually. It is worth more if it's a Top 40 hit? Some TVs are more expensive then others. How about if it's been the #1 song for 12 weeks running? What if it's a "B side" song? And some TV's are less expensive. It depends on the brand.

Your arguement holds little merit.

Kierthos

Re:Enemies of Your Friend Are Now Your Enemies

[reallocate]

Ummm...choosing the wrong word isn't a mistake of grammar.

Sure, the price of CD's is too high. And, sure, that's an incentive to get it elsewhere. People are still buying them, though. Someone paid cash for that CD they're "sharing".

The best way to force CD prices to drop is to stop buying CD's at those prices. Start putting some stores out of business.

Re:Enemies of Your Friend Are Now Your Enemies

[Golias]

Humor: It's a concept. Look it up sometime during your next kernel re-compile.

Re:Enemies of Your Friend Are Now Your Enemies

[reallocate]

>> it's no surprise that someone, like you...is upset...

I'm not upset, just amused that so many people think that pop music and the RIAA is so bloody important that they elevate the issue to this level.

Besides, you don't have a bloody clue about what I may or may not believe, or whether I support or don't support the "system".

>> Government is set up such that votes and candidates may be bought. Legal recourse in courts and through legislative action do nothing because of the economic differences in the lobbying effort.

If you believe that's true, then why aren't you buying votes and lobbying? Why hasn't the P2P community managed to organize?

>>..You can have a very valued and preferred choice lose out because of the political process. This puts question in the validity of that process and those that represent it

No, it doesn't put the validity of the process into question. It simply means you lost. You may value and prefer your choice, but others may not. At times, my success is dependent on your failure. Alleging that the process has failed because you didn't get what you want means only that you failed you to get what you wanted from the process. From others' perspective, the process may have succeeded quiet nicely.

Re:Enemies of Your Friend Are Now Your Enemies

[bilbobuggins]

Why should I spend hours of time and effort ripping/re-encoding a DVD to make a copy when I can just throw down a $20 and have an original?

Yes, this is true for now and believe it or not the **AA actually knows this.
The real reason they are running so scared is they realize that as technology advances and copying/downloading becomes easier and easier that magic price point gets lower and lower.
Ten years from now, imagine yourself saying 'why should i spend 15 minutes copying a dvd when i can just buy one for [magic-number]?' and what number will that be? 50 cents? 25? 10?

At some point in the future, covering production costs will always be higher than acquisition costs for the consumer.
I'm looking forward to having this revolutionize the entertainment industry (read: distribution is no longer the major cash cow), but to play devil's advocate: for the congolomerates to start searching for a price point that can't exist, well it's guaranteed to be a losing battle - the most they could do is just prolong it for a couple of years.

Re:Enemies of Your Friend Are Now Your Enemies

[shadowbearer]

My *point* as Gnovos pointed out below, is that organizations like
the RIAA have no right to be bitching about criminal copying when they
are engaged in criminal behavior themselves.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

AFAIC the same thing applies to Microsoft....

SB

Re:Enemies of Your Friend Are Now Your Enemies

[reallocate]

Probably not, but so what? Is that going to change anything, or make the RIAA less powerful?

All that's happening with most /. posts about this issue is a bunch of pontificating about morality, as if that will have any affect on anyone who can actually improve the state of affairs.

Re:Enemies of Your Friend Are Now Your Enemies

[aminorex]

Said counterfeiters are in fact commiting massive
acts of civil disobedience. Whether they are doing
so from personal pecuniary interests or in an act
of noble self-sacrifice is immaterial. The fact
remains that they are *doing* something about the
rape and subdivision of the Intellectual Commons.

Re:Yeah, because singing is just like money

[MaxVlast]

I don't know about you, but I get my towels from a towel licensing firm. I'm only allowed to use them for a restricted set of purposes, but I get the benefit of regular maintenance updates and, um, patches.

Picking Battles

[gorjusborg]

This is just one way to try to circumvent 'authorities' from interfering with piracy. There are undoubtedly many, many more, most have probably not been thought of yet, due to the lack of necessity. But, doesn't it seem that the the groups that are making such a big deal about piracy are spreading themselves too thin? The fact that they are chasing down individual users (see RAII v. Verizon) along with the big-time pirates just means that they cannot really concentrate on either. It seems to me that trying to stop the individual user and the pirate only means they will fail (in general) at doing either. (Of course, going after the individual user is most likely a scare tactic to stop the faint of heart users from copying.)

Why not USA : EU :: Russia : NATO?

[yerricde]

a slight geographical inconvenience [prohibits the USA from joining the EU]

Even if all EU members must claim territory that geographically belongs to Europe, then why not "admit" the USA to the EU in much the same manner as Russia has been "admitted" to NATO?

Re:Why not USA : EU :: Russia : NATO?

[Galvatron]

Isn't NATO the "North Atlantic Treaty Organization?" From what I can tell on the map, Russia has every bit as much of a claim to be on the North Atlantic as does, say, Turkey.

Re:Why not USA : EU :: Russia : NATO?

[Omerna]

Because the EU doesn't really want the US in it. They were created to create another economic superpower to compete with the US economically. If the US is in the EU that kinda kills the fun for them.

Re:Why not USA : EU :: Russia : NATO?

[mpe]

Isn't NATO the "North Atlantic Treaty Organization?" From what I can tell on the map, Russia has every bit as much of a claim to be on the North Atlantic as does, say, Turkey.

Depending exactly where you draw the boundries on bodies of water Russia probably has a stronger claim than Turkey.

And I thought I'd be original...

[Flounder]

with some lame "Arrrr, mateys. Ye shall be giving us your booty of blank CD-Rs."

Be original, or be different. It doesn't matter.

International Waters == Anarchy?

[Gerry Gleason]

It gets pretty weird, doesn't it. What's to stop the RIAA from influencing the USG to send ships to sink or confescate the vessels? You'd probably be safer in the territorial waters of a state that won't enforce. They would certainly raise a diplomatic stink if another country came to enforce without permission.

Just another stake in the heart of "the architecture of control". I'm not about to support this sort of thing either in principle or through buying pirated CDs, but it does demonstrate the weakness of the RIAA position. If you treat your customers with respect, they won't disapoint you. Let those who won't pay even what it is worth to them worry about their own karma.

Re:International Waters == Anarchy?

[mpe]

What's to stop the RIAA from influencing the USG to send ships to sink or confescate the vessels?

That is known as "piracy" the real kind, not the more modern definition of copyright infringement. The RIAA does not want to get into "piracy upon the high seas".

Re:International Waters == Anarchy?

[Gerry Gleason]

I don't think so. The US Navy or Coast Guard is able to operate on the high seas, although it may need some congressional support to do it legally. Applying international law implies that the damaged party is claiming protection of another state, which probably isn't the case here.

I think there is an international law of the sea, but it probably doesn't keep nations from enforcing their own laws. Maybe someone who knows can comment.

Freedonia

[yerricde]

I believe that a vessel in internation waters is subject to the laws of its flag country -- the country in which the vessel is registered.

Then register pirate ships in Freedonia, whose flag (called "Jolly Roger") is a white skull and crossbones on a black field.

Yo ho ho..

[Anonymous Coward]

We got fifteen discs on a dead exec's chest..
Yo ho ho and a bottle o' cap'n.

Arr, ye scaliwags. Be handin' over yer wenches and yer discs, or we'll be sendin ye to Laaaaars Ulrich's locker.

Hilary Rosen?

Arrr. Ye can keep harrrr. We said wenches!

Now I have another excuse to talk like a pirate. Bless you, you ingenious content thieves, bless you.

But damn the media. Now I won't be able to release Pirate Linux without people being afraid to use it.

And I was going to make everything display in pirate speech. :(

"Shiver me timbers! Yarr kernel has been keel hauled!"

Re:Yo ho ho..

[Knobby]

Pirate Linux sounds something like PorthOS.. PorthOS is something a few friends of mine and I kicked around whenever the alternative OS announcements on /. became boring or we felt like tormenting the IT guys on campus (/. DDOS).. Anyway, PorthOS was going to be the Anti-Linux. The heaviest, most feature laden, OS ever. Error messages would be passed through text-to-speech and yelled at you in Esperanto with a drunken-french accent..

Someday it'll happen!

Re:Yo ho ho..

[Darkninja666]

You should really produce the "Error messages would be passed through text-to-speech and yelled at you in Esperanto with a drunken-french accent.. ". It would be a blast to install on a users windows computer.....

In other news..

[Anonymous Coward]

Hilary Rosen declared today that the RIAA would be offering letters of marque to aid in the hunting down and destruction of the Content Pirates of the South Pacific.

When interviewed, Rosen stated, "We will not stand for this! The Crown will pay a thousand marks to any who bring in the heads of these scourges of the entertainment industry!"

Several daring captains of the IT industry have joined forces with the RIAA, becoming privateers. However, not all recording artists agree with the actions of the RIAA.

"I was there for the announcement. This one guy, he came up to me and said, "Arr, don't be worrying matey, I'll be sinkin' those music pirates! And then he pulled a flintlock on me and stole my watch!", said Lars Ulrich.

The pirates in question could not be reached for comment.

Im up for it

[ehlo]

Sounds like fun. I sure wouldnt mind steaking out on a pirate boat off of malaysia burning pr0n, catching a tan between cd's.. And im sure they have their share of rum & ..jezabels ;)

The circle closes

[wheany]

The word "piracy" has returned to its roots...

Makes sense... POVERTY is the bottomline

[dennison_uy]

It all makes sense.

Taking piracy to the ocean can only strengthen the Malaysian pirate ring, the largest movie piracy ring IN THE WORLD as it will give them easier escape routes as well as quicker access to other countries where they export their pirated VCDs to.

Wanna know why rampant piracy still exists in Malaysia despite the frequent mass raids that happen in that country? Because although the Malaysian government wants (whether sincerely or just for show) to combat piracy, the people that are under them do not. Why? Because the bribes those pirates give are their source of income.

The bottomline here is POVERTY.

While people are forced to find ways to feed themselves because of poverty, may it be legal or illegal, piracy, like many other crimes, cannot be stopped.

Malaysia + piracy

[sebol]

Malaysia, piracy.. malaysia, piracy... The last time 'Malaysia' appeared on slashdot was About priracy too....

is that any interested story about malaysia other than piracy? such as.. "Alex Yoong running wide during entering pit stop"

Doesn't make sense to me

[walterbyrd]

I'm no lawyer but, my understanding is that the copying is not what's illegal; it's the selling that's illegal.

Re:Doesn't make sense to me

[SmallFurryCreature]

ehm, well at least you are honest. If only the selling part was legal then me burning a copy of a cd for a friend who of course I do not charge would be legal. It isn't. You are not allowed to make copies of cd's. It is written on most of them. Only in some countries are you allowed to make backup's for strict personal use only, and even that is combatted left and right. (ever tried copying some games for backup?) I don't think that knocking of 10.000 copies could be considered for personal use even by the most rabid /.er

Devo said it best...

[Sponge Bath]

I'm a big pirate and I like to steal.
Ah ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! ha!

Go speed racer.

Arrrrrr... They have me BOOTY!

[thenovacrisis]

They aren't pirates until they get Eye-Patches and Peg-Legs. Though, I would buy an Eye-Patch just for fun.

Re:What caused this?

[Nick Harkin]

And then the incentive to make music would be........... what exactly?

Re:Time For Revolution

[nege]

I guess that could have been a joke, but just in case it wasnt...
I am kind of tired of people just getting on a box and shouting down our government and corporate evils and not offering up a fricking solution. If you have a better idea on how to run this country, please offer it up. If not, people will not be taking you seriously when you shout generalized, subjective opinions in ANY forum. (And then you get made fun of in every medium from "something awful" to Saturday Night Live.

*Newsflash*

[king_penguin_05]

The RIAA and the MPAA believe they have found a way to stop the pirates in their tracks. In a recent study they discovered that most people who pirate music and movies have legs. Therefore legs must be the reason these crimes occur. The right to bear arms is guaranteed by the Constitution, but they have found nothing protecting these people from having their legs taken away. So in this post 9-11, post Columbine world, they must take away everyone's legs or the terrorists will have won, and then who will protect the children. (This is supposed to be a joke, but you never know about the RIAA.)

What about "SeaLand?"

[BTWR]

Remember Sealand?

Slashdot did a story on them before. I know there has been talk of doing this before, so who is actually to stop them if the, er... offer is large enough?

Be on the lookout

[giminy]

Be on the lookout for the ArrrrrIAA.

Budum *crash*

It happens

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I live here, and since last thursday our time all the vcd (video) shops have been closed tight.

As well, the street vendors are not at their usuall places.

The computer cd shops have been open though..which is weird.

This is typical here, every so often the shops close, they do a raid, the shops open.

Treasure Island

[rapidweather]

To locate Pirate Ships:
First, have have police watch reruns of
"Treasure Island", to get the general idea of who, what they are looking for.
Then, turn them loose, and on the way out, holler:
"Remember, it's the ships with the "Jolly Roger" flag!".
They may not catch any CD pirates this way, but the Oceans will be a LOT safer for the rest of us if they actually come across and catch any REAL pirates!

Ladies and Gentlemen...

[mtec]

Today, as Chief of RIAA Weapons, I stand before you to present the latest tool in our fight against piracy. Better even than the kazaa spiders and the DRM encoded speaker wire. With a potential far greater than the prototype CD-embedded surveillance camera.

I give you... RIAAquaSub.
With 10 surplus MK.48 torpedos, 150 day sea endurance and tuned killer Bose sound system linked to an Apple iPod patch system - er... Lets concentrate on the MK.48s....

This sounds like more hassle than it's worth.

[shimmin]

If the ships used are registered in some nation's maritime registry, then that nation's laws still apply onboard, so why not just do it ashore in that nation? If the ships used AREN'T registered, then they have no legal protection against the coast guards or navies of _any_ nation that cares to harass them.

It made a lot more sense back in the 1950's and 60's when Norweigian oil platforms in the North Sea installed some truly overpowered AM rigs and broadcasted music the BBC wouldn't play into the UK. (Paid for by the record companies who wanted the advertising.) Then, they were doing something that was legal in Norway, but not in the UK, and benefitted from being close to the UK, so a Norweigian maritime installation made perfect sense.

Here, the pirates are doing something that doesn't benefit from being done at sea, so why bother?

Re:This sounds like more hassle than it's worth.

[passion]

OK, then I'll register my ship with the principality of sealand, or maybe I'll launch a satellite, and form a moon base to make my copies.

Re:This sounds like more hassle than it's worth.

[The Cydonian]

If the ships used are registered in some nation's maritime registry, then that nation's laws still apply onboard,

Most international ships are registered in countries such as Panama or Aruba which not exactly intolerant of sleaze, as long as it brings them $$$.

But about the original point; guess most people here don't realise how serious piracy is in South East Asia. The problem is not about piracy (or counterfeiting, if you prefer) per se, but about who is doing it. You see, the organised mafia is coming into the scene, leaving other relatively dangerous stuff such as human and drug trafficking.

And boy, are they organised. There was this interview in Time (I think; too lazy to hunt the archive down) with a bigshot Hong Kong cop specialising in piracy busts. Apparently, this dude took part in a raid in Hong Kong and later went over to Malaysia to help the police there in a joint sting.

The sting apparently went bad because the pirates (counterfeiters) recognised him from Hong Kong, leaving him with a dire warning about danger to his family.

Re:This sounds like more hassle than it's worth.

[jesseraf]

think spatial. the ship may be registered to a state which permits this type of activity, but may be around the world from where they need to distribute the CDs. Why would you produce the CDs in the Country X in the Caribbean, then ship to Country Y in Southeast Asia. Make sense to hike out into international waters in close proximity to where you're going to sell them. You'd assume would save time and money.

Re:This sounds like more hassle than it's worth.

[alienmole]

Aside from the "spatial" issue someone else mentioned, is the simple fact that it's hard to enforce laws on a ship that's in international waters, thousands of miles from its country of registration.

Re:This sounds like more hassle than it's worth.

[mpe]

If the ships used are registered in some nation's maritime registry, then that nation's laws still apply onboard, so why not just do it ashore in that nation?

Maybe because they are a long way from their country of registration, have chosen to register with a country without a substantial navy and conduct their operations somewhere near a place which does not have good diplomatic relations with their country of registration.

Re:This sounds like more hassle than it's worth.

[Alphtoo]

Hey, Passion, that moonbase thing might be a great idea! Or even better, maybe an orbiting space station. Seems I read a few years ago that damn near perfect ball bearings could be produced in a weightless environment, but as far as I know nobody has tried that with CDs. That's a cool project for NASA to look into! And if the RIAA could produce CDs like that, they'd probably be able to get a couple hundred bucks for them, so they'd be happy too (until the pirates can steal some spacecraft).

Pirates, eh?

[elemental23]

Q: What do pirates use to copy movies?

A: CD-Arrrr

*ahem*

global economy, global crime

[axxackall]

It will take better international laws, better international police and better respect of international laws by ALL goverments to get such pirates, narko-business, terrorism and other internation crime nailed down. All == including US govt.

Unfortunately - forget it for awhile. US goverment questioned: "What International Crime Court? There is no such thing if US soldgers do not have any immunity from it.". And then claimed: "I am the international law!". And actually proved it: "I was the International law for Afganistan. I am the International law for Iraq. I will be the International law for all evil nations."

Unfortunately, that won't work. It did not work in Afganistan - the production of heroin and opium has been trippled compared to what it was with taliban. I doubt it will work with Iraq and Saudi. Bad example creates another bad example. Malasyan govt ecentually will give up. As Latin America govts gave up against narko-business. Why should they respect international laws if US does not?

Fortunately, it won't last forever. Switching the attention of american people from economy problems to the war cannot last forever and creates even stronger internal economy problems. Sooner or later USA will be back in 1929 and the history will repeat itself. I hope, after all USA will have some internal law forcing their goverment to respect international laws. And actually improve it - if US disagree with UN they should suggest how to reform UN, instead of boykoting it (as it was before) or ignoring (as it is now).

And only after that the war against CD pirates will bring any positive results.

Pot, kettle, black.

[TheLink]

What do you mean by "These people just don't realize that their personal gain in purchasing and selling cheap software may be good for them in the short run, but disasterous to their nation in the long run"

It's not that stupid.

Maybe you don't realize it but this sort of thing worked for the USA, it worked for Switzerland and I'm sure it worked for many other countries.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2002379.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,6 65 861,00.html

Open your eyes dude. The only reason it'll be bad in the long run is if the USA takes hypocritical, harsh and unfair action to stop others from doing precisely what it did for its own benefit in the past. Trade barriers etc etc.

Try to see it from this point of view just for a moment.

Just missed serendipity...

[emarkp]

This story should have been reported on September 19, AKA Talk Like a Pirate Day.

Oh well..

Their preferred medium?

[graybeard]

CD-RRRRRRR

A how-to on making your own country

[hoytt]

Creating your own country can be pretty easy. All you need is an object on which to stay, and a place in international waters. So you go to Shell/BP/Exxon and ask them if you can buy an old oil rig. Then you can park it ANYWHERE in international waters. And then you can start your own country. Since you can make the laws, you can make it illegal to use legal copies of MS software. You might need an army too, incase someone tries to invade your country.

Re:A how-to on making your own country

[JoshRoss]

The only person who has the means to do this is Bill Gates. I'm sure that he would make it a capital offence if you pirated his magisties warez.

Re:A how-to on making your own country

[Dean Sas]

someone has already posted the Sealand site, there are many projects which are doing things like this such as new utopia it is feasible if you have the money and legal.

Re:Freedonia, and "Micro Nations"

[mcrbids]

Why not a real Country?

Say, perhaps, the "Country" of Sealand?

Now, here you might have something! You get the 3 guys (or whatever) to agree to register with the International Registry, and ... voila!

Heck, they practically are a ship to begin with!

But this raises more questions... What if you have a permanently anchored "dock" at sea? Something that floats, with pools, solar water purifiers, etc, and market it as a "vacation resort"?

Make it big, and kinda sprawling, and make it float. What then? Cruise ships today routinely take passengers numbering thousands, already many more people than something like Sealand.

At what point can a manmade structure become a nation?

hmmm.....

[WhiteKnight07]

I wonder if any of the ships have "HMS Bounty" painted on them?

Counterfitting?& if they're not sold as origin

[RockyJSquirel]

What's the legality if the copies are given away or sold as copies?

Rocky J. Squirrel

Re:What caused this?

[MoneyT]

Fun? Entertainment? Getting your message out? Self expression? Some how I doubt musicians started out with the idea that they were going to turn into multi million dollar stars. There are plenty of local and independent groups all across the country that perform in night clubs and bars. They do street performances, give lessons etc etc etc. They do not make millions from selling CDs, yet for some reason, they keep making music.

International Law is a Farce

[Maul]

There should NOT be very much international law. We already have too much. The fact that Bush wants everyone else to follow it, but doesn't want the US to be accountable to it is only an illustration of the very problem with international law. Every country has different values and societies.

It is too hard to enforce, first of all. Second of all, it imposes the values of (mainly) the West on every country in the world.

If Afganistan wants to make heroin and opium until the cows come home, let them.

If Malasyans want to copy CDs and burn them, let them.

Creating international "bully forces" to impose Western values on other countries isn't going to do anything but cause more people worldwide to become "terrorists" who are out to "kill the West."

International law should be stripped down to cover war crimes like genocide. It shouldn't have any place outside the of things like that.

Re:International Law is a Farce

[Xeger]

I disagree that Afghanistan (or any other country) should be allowed to pump out any drug it pleases..

Heroin is one of the most addictive substances on the books. If Afghanistan wants to sell it on the international market, then it is our right to conduct a trade embargo against them as a form of protest.

The problem with international law, is that it favors the rich countries over the poor countries. But this isn't some evil of Western civilization--this is how the human mind works. The rich ones get all the power.

Until there is more economic parity, there cannot be more equality.

Re:International Law is a Farce

[axxackall]

What you are saying is the direct way to anarchy and chaos.

US has the biggest military forces and it uses them to change the govt in other country or to make a pressure to get immunity from International Crime Court, which is supposed to deal with genocide, what is exactly what US afraid of being presecuted for (why?).

The other countries should shut up even when their neighbours are more dangerous than Afganistan. Just shut up and do not interfere with big games of big guys.

Moreover, those big guys in US govt make everything possible to assure that ALL other coutries are weaker than US. Thus, it would be possible to dictate them everything and to dominate the world.

Of course any interests of local peoples are ignored. Even the life of own american people (as well europeans) is ignored and ready for being sacraficed - it is no problem that Afganistan increased its drag export (major part of it is going to US and EU) - it is even good for the business of some big guys who are behind US govt.

As for washing the brain - no problem at all. At the time when US refused to keep peacekeepers further on Balkans, all European newspapers where full of headlines about it - CNN has been keeping a silence in 4 days. I guess 4 days american people did not know how ugly its govt is again.

I guess the biggest chaos is in conflict of interests of big US corps and the face the US govt must leep badly protecting such interests in international hidden games.

It is too hard to enforce

It will much easier if US will show a good example of ebeying international laws.

Creating international "bully forces" to impose Western values on other countries isn't going to do anything but cause more people worldwide to become "terrorists" who are out to "kill the West."

If you, my friend, will leave for awhile you warm seat and see other people outside of US, you will hear the opposite point - people are angry that US ignore international laws.

By the way, the goal of peacekeepers is not to bring western values, but to bring the peace - the function is known from the history of all continents. I mean to bring the peace to people first all, only after that thinking about the peace for govts.

International law should be stripped down to cover war crimes like genocide. It shouldn't have any place outside the of things like that.

A genocide of the govt against its own people must be the subject of such curt as well as war crimes.

Re:International Law is a Farce

[mpe]

Heroin is one of the most addictive substances on the books. If Afghanistan wants to sell it on the international market, then it is our right to conduct a trade embargo against them as a form of protest.

Plenty of things, including various alkaloids are addictive. Nicotine is also highly addictive (and toxic) but since it's produced by Americans that can't be embargoed...

Re:International Law is a Farce

[Xeger]

Nicotine is also highly addictive (and toxic) but since it's produced by Americans that can't be embargoed...

This is a great example of the richest country getting all the power, and it's a shame. Nicotine being even more addictive than heroin, it seems all the more criminal. But in the US' defense, there are few nations in the world whose populations would stand for a cigarette embargo. Europe dearly loves its cancer sticks, as does Asia.

Not poverty.

[TheLink]

We're just following the well trodden path to success, see:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2002379.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,66 5 861,00.html

(Delete the space inserted by Slashdot).

Malaysia isn't that poor (Indonesia maybe). People aren't starving in the streets. You can always get food, many people will give you free food or for a nominal task, and food is cheap. A 400gm loaf of bread is about USD0.45. For twice that you can have a vegetarian _all_you_can_eat_ meal. If you are starving it's probably because for some reason you can't ask, beg, find food for yourself. Just collect shopping trolleys for a supermarket for a few bucks or something.

The climate isn't that harsh either, no winter to kill you off.

So I'd rather be down and out in Kuala Lumpur than in New York city, or Singapore.

In Kuala Lumpur you can probably built a little shack for shelter, open a stall, sell stuff/food etc and get away with it. If your food is good the enforcement officers will probably buy from your stall too ;).

In Singapore, the Gov is so efficient your shack will probably be demolished by evening, and you'd have problems selling stuff without a license.

New York city - good luck avoiding your last winter dude.

What's next?

[Psx29]

Pirates in space?

Free CD's == No CD's

[reallocate]

If the price of CD's -- or any other product -- drops to zero, people will stop making CD's.

The music business is just that, a business whose purpose is to sell music. If the price of music drops below the cost of music production and distribution, the business will vanish.

Poof, no more CD's to buy or "share".

Re:Free CD's == No CD's

[billbaggins]

Or maybe the crap artists who are in it just for the money will stop making CDs, and the "art for art's sake" folks will carry on with what they do, living by contributions or concert tix or something, distributing their music on the Internet, and generally making music for the reasons that people started making music. To express themselves. To have fun. To entertain. To praise $DEITY. Because they wanted to, not just because they could make money off of it (though I will admit that making money is almost always a nice secondary effect).

Re:Free CD's == No CD's

[reallocate]

You're parroting the same lame naive line that others trot out here with regularity.

First of all, by and large, musicians don't make CD's. Music companies make CD's. The CD business is a distribution business. Recording companies' interest in the contents of a CD is limited to whether or not you'll buy it. If they could make money selling white-noise CD's, they would. The Internet provides an opportunity for musicians to market their products directly to comsumers, by providing a substitute distribution system. Few are taking advantage of that fact (perhaps because that segment of the Internet market isn't as large as supposed), while the RIAA certainly recognizes the net's threat to the profits of the recording industry.

Second, there is no necessary relationship between creativity and income. The world is full of struggling musicians who live from hand to mouth, trying to eke out a living. Some of them are struggling because they make music no one wants to hear. Others are struggling because they haven't had a commercial break. Yes, if their sole motive was to make money, they'd probably be lawyers or dentists. But, just like everyone else, given a chance to make money, they'll take it. If they can make money as "crap artists", they'll do just that. It's human nature.

Too good to just link.

[grumpygrodyguy]

"Heave to me hearties an' I'll regale ye with a tale o' sweet trade in the South Seas. But ye be revealing these secrets to some scurvy dog, like a landlubbin' lawyer from the MPAA or RIAA, and you'll have a taste of the cat, if'n I don't have the black spot put on ya, for dead men tell no tales.

Look smartly there! Seems t'were some marooners what were doin' some interlopin' on the fair shores of Malaysia. But the guv'nor's soldiers was strong on the discipline. In a fortnight, many o' these buccaneers were clapped in irons and meetin' rope's end. Now the rest o' their mates t'weren't no squiffies or sprogs. They could use their deadlights. So, seein' as they didn't want to dance with Mr. Jack Ketch, they came about handsomely, took up with a sea artist and went on the account.

Now these corsairs made full sail 'til they be several leagues to sea, in international waters, where Jack Valenti's letters o' reprisal aren't nothing but bilgewater. There all hands turn to, copying chanteys, with no quarter given for DRM. Blimey if this doesn't have the gov'nor's soldiers bilged on their own anchor. Already the soldiers be tryin' to bring in the ol' Guarda Coasta, but they'll have no luck, says I.
"

Price point and region encoding

[freeweed]

One thing I've always wondered about is the use of region encoding, but on a much smaller scale. You mention how you're willing to pay $20 for a DVD, because you can't be bothered to spend the time ripping it - but what about someone who only makes $5 an hour? Is it worth THEIR time?

I have rather well-off friends financially who don't even blink an eye at plopping down $500-$1000 a month for PC software, whereas with my student status, that's more than I make most months. So, I resort to what most students do, and still use the software.

Now, we all know one of the big uses for region encoding is so that content producers can effectively price-fix their products: they know they'll still make a profit selling a CD for $5 in say, Malaysia, but not any more than $5 because the average Malaysian makes 1/4 of what the average American does (all hypothetically speaking).

With a very large wage gap between the rich and poor in the US, it almost makes me wonder: CDs for $5 (still making a profit, remember)would sell boatloads to poorer families who normally would just download them. HOWEVER, the richer folk among us would buy the CD, even if it was priced at $50.

Now the only thing left to do is have the **AA buy some legislation that allows it to check your financial status, and price your goods accordingly. "Look, we've nearly eliminated those evil pirates, AND we're being nice to the little guy!"

Wow, I think I just scared myself.

Eh?

[Fyndlorn]

What you suggest is just plain silly, until there is an actual effort by the governments of those countries to curb piracy, or there is a social stigma attached to buying conterfiet software it doesn't matter how cheaply the companies price thier products!

Imagine I open a store there and price the software more 'reasonably' at 28 ringgit ("Word now at 92% off!!") do you think thee is any chance someone will buy it when they cna get the same product for 7 and not feel badly about it? Not to mention the fact that if this ever happened people would just buy thier software and have it shipped from overseas where is is priced at the 'locally affordable value'.

2 problems with the idea..

[nurb432]

2 Problems i see:

1 - While being out in international waters negates the issues with copyrights, ( until they try to distribute the copies that is.. ) it also negates various laws that *protect* them.. such as not being hijacked when discovered.. hope they got big guns and a fast ship..

2- speaking of fast ships.. is a boat stable enough to do copying?

Legalism is the dumbest ethical theory ever!

[Dr. Spork]

When you go to college (if you do), an ethics professor will teach you that not everything that is moral is legal, and not everything that is legal is moral. Maybe it will take a real ethics class for you to realize that the mere observation that an activity is illegal according to some standard is no argument at all that there is anything wrong with it.

I suppose if you lived in the 60's you'd say "I don't care about your principles and arguments--the law is clear: Niggers go in the back of the bus!"

Re:Legalism is the dumbest ethical theory ever!

[reallocate]

Thanks for resorting to the typical Know-Nothing Slashdot tactic of resorting to gratuitous insult and ad hominem attacks.

None of this has anything to do with legality or morality. It's only about tactics. It's just about cheap, throw-away music.

If you think "sharing" music will get you what you want, fine, go ahead. I think it will cause you to lose and simply get more draconian copyright restrictions placed on all of us, including people like me who don't really care a twit about whether some college student can afford to buy CD. That's the point I'm making. Morality and legality have nothing to do with it.

BTW, your equation of the civil rights struggle in the 60's to the music business is a gross and demeaning insult to the people who lived in that struggle.

Re:Legalism is the dumbest ethical theory ever!

[reallocate]

How about the struggle of Anonymous Cowards to develop coherent thought?

Your personal insights ought to be very revealing.

Re:Legalism is the dumbest ethical theory ever!

[reallocate]

Why should anyone stoop so low as to insult you, when you're doing such a fine job of it yourself?

Re:Legalism is the dumbest ethical theory ever!

[Disevidence]

They're going to use you as the first case to prove that posting anon causes permanent stupidity and immature attacks.

Maybe you have trouble with big words, put all he was trying to do was put an argument succintly in place. If had used smaller/other words, perhaps his direct meaning would of been missed.

If i say fuck off, i could mean a few things. In colloquial language, it means to go some place else. In literal terms, i could be asking you to have sex with "off", whoever that maybe.

But this is all semantics. His words aren't big, your sense of paranoia, angst and self-pity are just too large.

(Yes, i misspelt some words. But you still know what i mean precisely.)

Re:Legalism is the dumbest ethical theory ever!

[Dr. Spork]

No, I insulted you only alongside my making a cognet (if obvious) argument. Your "insightful" comment consisted of nothing but the observation that the piracy described in the article was illegal, and leaped from there to the conclusion that it's bad.

I hope even you have enough sense to recognize that as a foolish argument, and so do most readers here, but it's worth repeating anyway. The comment moderation is making me think you are not alone in being fooled by that line, and that what's obvious to most people is not too obvious to be repeated on Slashdot.

I'm afraid everyone needs a new reason for thinking that what the VCD counterfitters do is wrong. It's illegality is totally beside the point; unjust laws are not that unusual.

Re:Legalism is the dumbest ethical theory ever!

[scot4875]

Spork -- let me sum up reallocate's argument *very* succinctly:

Don't shoot yourself in the foot.

Go back and re-read. He's not arguing about legality or morality -- only practicality.

--Jeremy

Re:Legalism is the dumbest ethical theory ever!

[reallocate]

Spork, if your goal is to convince people that counterfeiting digital media is ethically correct, I'm not interested. Frankly, I don't care what people think about it.

What I do care about is preventing the passage of a new legislation that restricts traditional fair use even more than the DMCA. I fear the passage of legislation that mandates strict control of Internet use via required hardware controls and enforced ISP regulation. (Imagine a day when only "approved" hardware can legally access the net and when access providers are required to block unapproved hardware. Imagine a day when certain packets cannot be addressed to your IP address.)

Preventing all that comes down to old fashioned political effort in Washington, plus help from folks like Lessig, the EFF, and several new organizations that have sprung up. It is a matter of getting legislation drafted, getting it to a vote, and lobbying, campaigning and hard work. Nothing the P2P networks or the so-called community can do will change that.

All this will be especially difficult because copyright and intellectual property issues are below the radar of almost everyone in the U.S. Unless you belong to the small minority who have a personal or financial investment in filesharing, copyright and IP are just boring lawyer mumbo-jumbo.

Pseudo-metaphysical postings on /. that attempt to make the case for the morality/ethicality/legality of counterfeiting and unauthorized reproduction damage do not help. Coupled with the frequent vitrolic and unreasoned responses from the True Believers, they only serve to provide more evidence to the RIAA and others that the real goal of this "community" is the elimination of Constitutionally mandated copyright protection (note that eliminating copyright in the U.S. requires a Constitutional amendment), the end of IP, and the destruction of digital media commerce.

If I was an RIAA lobbyist testifying on the Hill, I'd show up with a stack of /. postings like yours.

Re:Legalism is the dumbest ethical theory ever!

[aminorex]

Power flows from the end of a gun. -Mao Ze Dong

You are a slave, and your children are slaves, owned
and serving at the whim, *surviving* at the whim of
the reigning plutocracy. I think you're fussing
about the pinstriping on your guillotine. The only
way to really address the corruption of the
political process in the era of centralized control
of the mass media is terrorism.

From Waterworld to Super Mario Bros.

[yerricde]

You have to be careful, though, or Dennis Hopper and his Smokers will start raiding.

In that case, just send Bob Hoskins and John Leguizamo after them. Or send in Diddy Kong; he's dealt with pirates before.

And once the piracy is done?

[Dr. Spork]

So what do these guys do with those huge chests of burned cds? Bury them and make a map?

What is next for the RIAA?

[DiveX]

How long is it going to be now for RIAA to ask for legislative permission to use torpedoes and their own naval forces to take care of the 'pirate problem'? After all, if they can hack into your systems with full legal protection to go after the small fry traders, then shouldn't they have just as much power to go after the bigger violators? How long until we have a real RIAA Capt Nemo in a sub with anti-society crew members on a quest against the pirates of the world?

Bring back Privateering.

[blair1q]

If they have pirate ships, we can have privateers, and sink them.

Re:Bring back Privateering.

[Treeluvinhippy]

umm, privateers where pirates who held letters of marque. A letter of marque ment, when country A was at war with country B you can committ acts of piracy agaisnt country B and have a safe harbor to return (country A).

Hehe, maybe Sony would be interested in allowing me to pirate cd's produced by Virgin records for example, as long as I don't touch anything produced by Sony. In exchange they will provide me with lawyers to legaly protect my ass. Well fat chance of that happening

Re:Bring back Privateering.

[Xeger]

Seriously, this isn't far off. Industrial espionage is only one step away from the scenario you describe.

Re:Bring back Privateering.

[blair1q]

You've been watching too much Technicolor.

The definition of Privateer has no requirement that the privateer be a pirate.

--Blair

Quit talking that crazy talk!

[argStyopa]

Well, obviously if they were selling MS Office in Malaysia for 7 ringgit, it would soon be selling for that here in the states.

So in effect you're saying that a software company that has completely covered it's development costs with original retail sales of some software, and now makes the current versions for $0.47 should be selling that software for only a 1000% profit instead of 1 million%?

What are smoking? That's crazy talk! How are they supposed to feed their children??!?!?

This brings a whole new meaning...

[Q3vi1]

Ah, back to the good ol' days of pirating. Well, good new days? Who knows, all I know is that it'll be interesting to see walk the plank for poor quality, or stealing the captian's mead.

Re:Freedonia, and "Micro Nations"

[surfimp]

At what point can a manmade structure become a nation?

At what point is a nation not a manmade structure?

Nope your both wrong!

[Nazmun]

It's the distributing of CD's whether it's free or not that is illegal! That's how it is in the U.S. at least. The manufacturers of CD's may put in stuff to prevent copying but it's not illegal for backup purposes.

Holy L. Ron Hubbbard!

[Catbeller]

Holy L. Ron! The pirates have taken a page from the Pope of Fugitives. Elron, founder of Scien*gy, spent, what, ten years at sea in a converted freighter (correct me here), for the sole purpose of not getting arrested on numerous warrants.

I think I can see, like legal sheet lightning on the horizon, the copyright industry gearing up to remove the protection of international waters.

Which is doubly amusing, since the Church of Scien*ology was one of the first instigators of digital copyright law change. Back in '91, I recall, they first tore after anon.penet.fi for relaying their "copyrighted" Xenu tracts. And in '95, when they were confiscating PC's for having "illegal" copies. And certainly when they helped out with the DMCA legislation.

I just think it's funny, in a sad way. Round the circle we go. Now the copyright kings in RIAA et al. will set out after international water neutrality, seeking to to remove the protections that once saved the founder of one of the most litigious copyright abusing organizations.

If the protection of the high seas is removed, as I posit, then there will be no place left to get away from the U.S.'s interpretation of intellectual property. No Switzerlands of the mind.

No one said it yet?

[VivianC]

Imagine a Beowulf Cluster of those!

Sorry. I couldn't control myself.

Re:Freedonia, and "Micro Nations"

[Catbeller]

At what point is a nation not a manmade structure?

A nation, in the final analysis, remains a nation when it fends off attack by challengers to its status. Sadly.

It is similar to my personal definition of intelligent life: a lifeform that shoots back at humans -- and wins. Whales would be considered ILF's if they fired frickin' lasers at the whalers.

Nations that want to remain nations, even if they are floating platforms in the ocean or spinning city-states in solar orbit, must have legal, economic, or martial ability to defend and counterattack.

Sealand exists because it isn't worth anyone's time to remove them. And a nation that simply removes Sealand will face really bad PR if they don't fabricate some excuse first: select 1) for pedophiles 2) for terrorists 3) for Drugs.

If Sealand gets private support, as offshore tax havens do, it will continue to exist, bar provocation. The pirates, however, will be sunk. No one is looking, and no one cares.

NATO Russia Council

[yerricde]

and when was Russia admitted to NATO

Russia was never fully admitted to NATO. That's why I put "admitted" in scare-quotes. I was talking about the NATO-Russia Council.

Oh the irony!

[SuperMario666]

Wouldn't it be hilarious if said IP pirates have some not-so-pleasant run-ins with actual pirates, who are quite prevalent in those waters.

The CD-Arrrrrrr game

[masterkool]

See how many times you can spot the joke about CD-Arrrrr's in this discussion.

Why Bother?

[Razzak]

I don't see why they should bother. They've probably considered that and decided they'll make more money selling it to businesses at 1500 ringgit than selling it to everyone at 50 ringgit... then let the pirates do their work to maintain market share.

Software companies are out to make money, not make sure everyone can use their product.

Hmm piracy is good..

[lidistick]

with regards to my statement, unless you've been to Malaysia and been able to buy Windows XP pro for USD $2.50 and Office XP for another USD$2.50, you cannot believe the bargain you just got yourself. The average wage in Malaysia is approximately USD500 ~ USD1000 (approx RM2000 ~ RM4000). The approximate price for a PC is RM2000 (decent set-up). Who can afford an operating software that is unreliable and costs upwards of 25% to 40% of the PC's price? and that would just be the OS. Plus, some of us happen to do some form of work on the computer and the original copy of windows office is another RM300. Let's not talk about those rich enough to afford original software. It's all about dollars and cents. It's all about economics. If I save some money on software, that money saved (which is a heck of a lot!) could be used elsewhere. The premise here is that, "I've earned my money, I'll spend my money any way I like". I cannot understand why recording companies and softare developers charge so much for CDs. Their profit margin is huge. would i really mind if Robby Williams gets less than his 80 million quid? or if Bill Gates becomes the 4th richest man in the world? As for enforcement in Malaysia..... bugger that. I rather they spent their energies on more important stuff like violent crime and pickpockets (how ironic?!) instead of devoting their efforts to appease the Seattle bigwigs. Piracy is competition Microsoft and the Music industry never had. Finito.

This isn't new..

[tperkow]

When I lived in Taiwan in '98 this was already pretty common knowledge -- these ships aren't operated by garden variety pirates, but criminal mafias (mostly Chinese) that have their hands in anything that can make them money.

US software firms are being too greedy considering the average income of many of these countries.. Sure there's a rich elite that can afford anything (& more) than we buy in the US, but these companies watched the market for these product build.

I worked in a local Taiwanese distributor, and when they're selling the pirated version for $4-5 US, you don't have a chance of selling many $35-40 games. Sell them for $10-$15 and people would have had the pride of owning a legitimate copy push them over the edge.. Of course, we could never convince Global companies to go for that.

My opinion: The media companies created this. They won't be able to sell the full priced versions anyway. Sell merchandise and live with it!

Re:Time For Revolution

[nege]

hahahaah! you think that would work?? No nations...no government. What you are suggesting is really a step backward. Sorry, no more computers without your corporations and nations. No advancement in technology either. Its proven democracy allows for the level of consumarism needed to generate money and jobs which lead to advances in science and technology. If you want proof just look at any nation besides a democratic one. USSR? Dont think so. Dont count on China either, they havent been to the moon right (or a host of other things we've done) And what about leadership in your little communities. How would that work? Again, you just suggest an idealistic view without a real solution.

Re:Funny, but

[Reziac]

Of course it really should have been "letters of marque and reprisal" :)

Re:Freedonia, and "Micro Nations"

[rworne]

It is similar to my personal definition of intelligent life: a lifeform that shoots back at humans -- and wins. Whales would be considered ILF's if they fired frickin' lasers at the whalers.

They just might have, if they had opposable thumbs.

Re:Freedonia, and "Micro Nations"

[DNS-and-BIND]

Why don't you just give peace a chance?

The best way to avoid war is to disarm.

Re:Time For Revolution

[nege]

hmmm both posts from AC...sounds about right to me. Your insults truly betray your cause.

Arrrrrr

[Treeluvinhippy]

Looks like I'm going to find a new line of work.
i wish they would advertise Corporate Spy in the classifieds, it would make my search for the job closest to something from a William Gibson novel so much easier.

Re:Freedonia, and "Micro Nations"

[lamz]

Why don't you just give peace a chance?
The best way to avoid war is to disarm.

Oh yeah? Tell that to the frickin' laser-totin' trigger-happy whales!

Re:Freedonia, and "Micro Nations"

[TheTomcat]

Nations that want to remain nations ... must have legal, economic, or martial ability to defend and counterattack.

Dude, you're scaring me. I'm CANADIAN!

S

Meet The New Boss...

[reallocate]

Nuts to you. Here are 3 cliches, in sequence, that apply here:

1. Come the revolution, all will be better.

2. Been there, done that.

3. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.


You're mechaniclally spouting nonsense you've heard from some other embittered soul . It is as if you really expect everyone else to automatically agree with your personal moral pronouncements. When you realize that isn't going to happen, you decide you're still right and the only way to fix things is violence. You're no different than that mythical plutocracy that animates your anger.