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Mozilla 1.2 Unleashed
asa writes "Mozilla 1.2 has just been released. New to this version are features like Type Ahead Find, basic toolbar customization (text/icons/both), support for GTK themes on Linux, multiple tabs as startpage,
Link Prefetching, "filter after the fact" and filter logging in Mail, Palm sync for Mozilla addressbook on MS Windows, and more. This is the latest stable release from mozilla.org, and all users of Mozilla 1.0, Mozilla 1.0.1, Mozilla 1.1 or any of the alpha/beta/release candidates are encouraged to upgrade to this release. You can get builds and more info at the Mozilla releases page and you can find daily Mozilla news and discussion at mozillaZine.org."
Now that we have Phoenix, I mean...
So not all things are available unless you use the classic theme-that sux.
This SIG pulled due to lack of funding. (This damn war is costing too much!)
One of the first things I noticed is great speed improvement. For example the directory listing
;)
(which used to take a few mugs of coffee) is now reasonably fast.
Whoohoo. I can finally try to look inside a doxygen generated documentation on a local disc!
For those of you who are interested, here is a link to the new roadmap
source: mozillazine.org
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
I think 1.0x is still considered the stable one... 1.02 will be out soon. In fact according to the roadmap 1.0x will continue to at least 1.4.
In case you weren't aware, a new Flash player for GNU/Linux
has been released too. It's recommended that you upgrade to this version if you're
going to use Mozilla 1.2. Unfortunately, audio seems
to be broken (at least for me under Mandrake GNU/Linux 8.1).
I've filed a bug report with Macromedia about this. Keep
it in mind if you upgrade.
less than 7% of my million monthly hits are something other than Internet Explorer
it's a damn shame esp. when Mozilla is now the superior product.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
What happened to it? The last time this worked was around 0.95 or so. Having to restart to change themes is, for one thing, primitive, and another, a pain in the butt.
Anybody know what's going on here?
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
Moz 1.2 runs great. Fast, stable, the HTTP pipelining is a *gem*.
And, of course, no M$ spyware.
What more can a nerd want?
Wow, all those wonderful cool colourful bells and whistles and STILL no cocksucking NTLM support, which means 99% of corporate workers have no fucking use for this piece of shit.
(Not a troll...I use Mozilla exclusively at home under Linux...but it's as useful as tits on a boar at work)
What about folks who pay-per-byte for network bandwidth?
- prefetching is a browser feature; users should be able to disable it easily
Is there a preference to disable link prefetching?
- Yes, there is a hidden preference that you can set to disable link prefetching. Add this line to your prefs.js file located in your Mozilla profile directory: user_pref("network.prefetch-next", false);
Although I admit link-prefetching may be good, but if it becomes a on-bydefault feature in most browsers, the ones that it will damage are the content providers. Those cannot turn it off (and actually do not have anyway of knowing whether their content is being prefetched (and not potentially viewed at all) or not. Well, I am just whining. Generally, Mozilla seems to be doing great :)
Of course Slashdot mentions every .1 release of Mozilla and Phoenix, but I have seen no mention of the release of Opera 7 beta. It's incredible, but they have actually managed to improve the speed from Opera 6. Especially on sites that are heavy on tables (Slashdot). It's a bit crashy, and configuration dialog is not complete (and I don't like skinned programs), but for the most part is a great step forward from Opera 6.
And sorry for riding on your frist ps0t...
A serious question. OpenOffice started incorporating GTK/GNOME widgets, Mozilla builds support for GTK themes...
Why is it that they all go in for GTK/GNOME not QT/KDE? Are the latter combination more difficult to integrate? Something about the QT license? Better mktg by the GNOME guys?
Anyone has any insights?
A crank is a little thing that makes revolutions
... of releasing new version numbers when the same old bugs haven't been fixed. There are persistant and annoying bugs which simply aren't being fixed from one release to the next, some of them being really old. I really embarrassed myself the other day by telling someone their site was stuffed (in more polite terms), only to realise it was Mozilla messing up (a very old bug, been there for a year or so).
Now I know adding features is more sexy / entertaining than fixing bugs, but isn't the point of making software for the gramdmas & officeworkers of this world, and not just autistic programming-savant fun-seaking obsessions?
Will a "light version" (ie browser only) still be available?
Just out of interest, does anyone know what kind of bandwidth charges you face doing something like this? I mean, OpenOffice, Mozilla, RedHat ISOs, - there must be massive bandwidth charges associated with distributing this kind of stuff, isn't there? Does anyone know what these guys pay per Gb, and what their monthly bills are like?
This was posted using Mozilla 1.2
Sex - Find It
However there are certain shortcomings. Number one is that there is no WYSIWYG editor for Mozilla. Something like HTMLArea. There is sort of such editors, but they do not work as nicely as IE WYSIWYG editors. I mean they are not even close to IE editors. So Mozilla should work very hard to bring such features. As the number of applications that use such features increase Mozilla will destined to doom unless it brings such features.
Second there is no support for drag and drop. There is drag and drop but not using onDrag and onDrop type of events which makes the programming extremely simple. That's a must have in my mind.
Third Mozilla for some reason is a little bit slow in Windows. Not the engine itself, but the program. For some reason it feels less responsive compared to IE. I thought that it is because of this skin, someone claimed that that's not the case, I am not sure whether he is right or wrong. But there is no point of having skins on the browser, it is totally stupid, useless. Get rid of the skin thing permanetly. Try to make sure that your program feels like a native application. Mozilla on Mac OS X is somewhat joke. It doesn't feel like a native application.
Mozilla's being standard complaint is good, however on the net lots of articles are written for IE, because of the historical reasons as we know it. So Mozilla should allow the users to make a nicer transition by enabling certain non-standard IE-only features as much as possible.
Before Mozilla I was only using IE, because Netscape was not good enough, even though at first I tried not to use IE. Now with Mozilla that changed a little. I still use IE most of the time, but I like Mozilla too.
Last I heard, Red Hat only ran on x86. Or actually I remember they had an S/390 distro too.
On other x86 distributions, you at least have the hope of using alien to switch the package format. But I use Debian on a PowerPC Macintosh.
I'm pretty sure Macromedia wrote software for the Macintosh before they even had any products for Windows. Flash right now is supported on the Macintosh, so the software is supported on PowerPC architecture.
How about getting us a Flash for Debian PowerPC Linux?
The "Red Hat" only mentality is why I think there isn't much hope of companies succeeding in shipping proprietary products for Linux. People on other distros or architectures get particularly irritated that they can't do whatever the product provides and write an open source replacement, where they wouldn't have bothered if the commercial app supported all the platforms.
If a bunch of volunteers working for no pay can support, what is it? 8000 packages on eleven architectures, why can't a commercial vendor support all the major Linux distros and architectures?
Request your free CD of my piano music.
Please use the netinstaller (~250kb) which would find a closest mirror for you automatically to download.
One of the last uses I had for explorer was to browse CNN. Mozilla 1.1 had problems formatting HTML on some (most) CNN articles;
Upgraded, tested, and now it works like a charm. What is that procedure to remove IE again?
Well, someone had to do it. You can find mirrors here: http://mozilla.org/mirrors.html
Has anybody made an improved download manager for Mozilla yet?
Yuioup
*Holds lighter to old mans face* ...
Old man: Godzirra, Godzirra, Godzirra
=If life was easy, i would be out of a job=
Is that prefetch thing such a good idea?
:)
For example, it will prefetch a document from another host that the one you're browsing. In the FAQ they say that they don't see that as a security risk. But I really don't like the idea that I could be tricked into prefetching stuff I don't want by a simple HTML tag (goatse, copyrighted material and other illegal stuff).
Yes it can be disabled but not from the GUI preferences, so many people won't even notice it.
Well I'm probably just being paranoid.
True warriors use the Klingon Google
When I read about new toolbar customization I got excited, but I still don't see where you can add and remove icons from the navigation toolbar. I like to keep things as compact as possible, so the default back, forward, reload, and stop buttons inline with address box are just fine, but I'd also like the home button up there. It seems like this would be an easy thing to copy from Internet Explorer.
Unfortunately the net installer will not find it, but there is a complete set of rpms (including SRPMs) for Redhat 8.0 here. It appears to install over Mozilla 1.0.1 (distributed by Redhat) quite nicely.
See my journal, I write things there
Unfortunately, with moz 1.2, my bank no longer accepts the certificate, even though I have a clean, new install. Why? Also, the keyboard shortcuts for tabbed browsing (like ctrl-shift-click), is gone. Why?
I use Moz because the older Phoenix didn't have a Quick Start. Does the new Phoenix support this?
the Popup Manager is not included in this release, I'll stick with Proxomitron, a very nice local proxy for blocking various kinds of http/html-garbage. Too bad it's Windows-only, is there anything similar powerful and easy to setup for Linux?
Argh... I was finally sure that I was going to stick with the new Opera 7- the new Beta came out last week and it's even quicker then 6.05. Decisions decisions... I think I'll wait for the next Phoenix to be released before I try out Mozilla again.
"When all else fails, there's always delusion." -Conan O'Brien
Pop up disable feature. Use this
to sell Mozilla to your local Bill Gates fan.
It worked for me.
Then Mozilla would be great. When I click on a mailto or news url it would use the programs I want, not the ones AOL wants.
Get a free ipod.
I love the way Mozilla makes itself my default browser, even AFTER clicking the "don't make Mozilla my default browser button." It did it in version 1.1, too.
If you like the standard tab browsing setup, you might like to try Tabbrowser Extensions for some nice enhancements to the tab browsing system.
I use Mozilla on WinXP, Win2k (and Linux) on Intel and AMD machines ranging from 333 MHz to 1.8 GHz, and I have to disagree with you on the stability issue.
I keep sticking to the "final" releases (1.0, 1.1 etc) and since somewhere around the release of 1.0 or 1.1 I don't think it has crashed on me even once.
The only thing keeping me from completely forgetting about IE is the fact that some sites still do not follow the standards (certain banks for instance). But when it comes to speed, stability, features and configurability, I (finally!) find Mozilla to be at least as good as IE, if not better.
I'm using galeon 1.2.6, mozilla 1.0.1. Well, I actually only use galeon. Is 1.2 compatible with 1.0.1, meaning I can upgrade Mozilla without breaking galeon ?
She can't stand Mozilla. She understands very well why she should avoid IE. But she only uses Mozilla when she absolutely has to, for example to check for interoperability after completing a web page that she wrote while using mostly using IE.
Why? Because she experiences so many bugs with it. The bugs make Mozilla unusable to her. She's not a software developer. She's a regular user of the sort that applications like this are targeting.
She understands very well that her machine can get hacked if she uses IE. But crashes and usability problems happen to her several times a day when she uses Mozilla. The risk of getting hacked seems somewhat theoretical and remote. The crashes and loss of data (for example, forum postings being composed in web forms) are frequent and completely intolerable.
Today I sent her a link to that BBC article that said you shouldn't use IE because of the security holes that are used by spyware and adware. I had observed her using IE a lot lately and wanted her to really understand why she should avoid it. Unfortunately I didn't anticipate how she would react.
She was completely distraught. I looked over at her sitting at her computer this evening and she had tears running down her face, quietly crying. The reason was that she didn't know how she was going to be able to browse the web anymore, because I had just told her in quite a loud way (using the BBC article) why she shouldn't use IE, but she also finds Mozilla completely useless.
I had put her in a bind. She didn't see a way out.
The way I consoled her and resolved the bind was to tell her to go ahead and use IE. She doesn't have much data on her drive that would be a problem if someone stole it, and if she gets hacked I'll reformat the drive and reinstall Win2k.
Meanwhile I told her I would download the new mozilla and test it for her. I was pleasantly surprised to find 1.2 released tonight - I hadn't wanted to give her a beta. So I got it downloaded before the rush.
My fear, though, is that her bugs are not fixed. There are just a few bugs that give her repeated trouble. Tonight she had a repeated crash, one time when she had sixteen windows open while researching medical journal literature, and she had hard time finding her pages again.
Talkback kept popping up and made her really upset because it made it so she couldn't just relaunch Mozilla. I knew that the talkback logs would help the developers get the bugs fixed, but if my wife was to use Mozilla at all I had to show her how to disable talkback.
I'd like to make the polite suggestion that the Mozilla developers focus somewhat less on flashy features and somewhat more strongly on stability and basic usability.
I've got lots of bugs in both reliability and usability on the Linux mozilla I use on my Mac, but I have a greater tolerance for it because I'm a developer, and I'm committed to making open source work. My wife, on the other hand, uses Mozilla because I plead with her to do so. It would be nice if Mozilla didn't make her life miserable.
I convinced her recently to make a serious try at switching from windows to Linux. That's a big step - I've been trying to do that for several years. She hasn't tried it yet because I'm going to have to spend some time configuring a system with the right setup to be able to accomplish all the tasks she wants while also being very usable and reliable. I'm going to really spend some time trying to make her transition as comfortable as possible.
While she was upset tonight she told me that the reason she said she would try Linux was to make me shut up about IE vs. Mozilla, and it hadn't worked - I kept pushing her to use open source tools, and they are unusable for her.
Bonita did file one actual bug report with bugzilla. That's the last she'll ever do, because she found the whole process extremely confusing. I think the big problem is that if you try to file a bug, and don't have a bugzilla account, after your account is created, you're presented with the expert interface and not the simplified one.
I think it would be helpful if there was a dead-simple bug report form that just had a couple lists for the platform and version, and one free-form text input field where the reporter could describe their problem. Then the person who fields the bug reports could translate this into a proper bugzilla report. Don't present people who aren't developers with the bugzilla query page - like Bonita, that will be the last report you ever get from a regular user.
It would also be very helpful if the very first page of the talkback wizard presented the option of disabling it and making it just go away. Having to click through several pages before being allowed to quit talkback is really frightening for someone who just lost all their windows and just wants to launch it again so they can find the pages that just disappeared from their screen.
Read more of what I have to say about the importance of quality in Free Software.
Request your free CD of my piano music.
I can't believe they still haven't incorporated "single window mode" into the built-in tabbed browsing features of Mozilla. Every person I've talked into trying Mozilla wants to know why windows still open all over the place when they're using tabbed-browsing mode. Instructing them to go find an obscure plug-in, and then configure it, is not an acceptable solution for Joe Mousepad.
P.S. The default theme is impossibly ugly. ORBIT
// I will show you fear in a handful of jellybeans.
Do you want to download plugin for xyz?.... Cancel ....
Do you want to download plugin for xyz?.... Cancel
Do you want to download plugin for xyz?.... Cancel
Do you want to download plugin for xyz?.... Cancel
Do you want to download plugin for xyz?.... Cancel
Do you want to download plugin for xyz?.... Cancel
a neverending nightmare, I don't want that &$&%$
plugin so never ask me again!
...that after hearing so much about the user's right to freedom of choice when it comes to browsers, the Mozilla Messenger makes it impossible to use MS Internet Explorer to view the URLs I receive in e-mails.
Yes, I use MSIE for web and Mozilla for e-mail since its IMAP functionalities blow Outlook Express out of the water (actually, it does that just by being bug-free), but why on earth am I not allowed to open links I click in my e-mails with MSIE?
Maybe it's just me, but I think it's ironic that Mozilla is trying to tie me down to its web browser just because I want to use it for e-mail.
So if slashdot wanted to be malicious... it could just put in a prefetch tag into their front page and everyone that visits it is automatically forced to prefetch the 5M file of some competing service :)
Bringing a new meaning to being slashdoted.
-- bartman
Me: You can't use IE! It's unsafe and bad for you!
Wife: But I like it better than Mozilla! Mozilla just doesn't feel like home to me!
Me: You don't understand, IE is BAD for you!
Wife: But...
Me: Bzzz! BAD!
Wife: You insensitive asshole! Why can't you understand when you are hurting my feelings.
I forsee a new book by John Gray: Mozilla is from Mars, IE is from Venus.
hightlight an area of a page, right click and there's an option to "View selection source". which opens the html source and cues it to the area you had selected.
Mozilla is IMHO, the best available.
"The Most Fun Possible on 4 wheels" is at SunBuggy in Las Vegas
There needs to be a greater emphasis placed on reliability. Mozilla has lots of features already.
The parent post was not by any means a troll.
Request your free CD of my piano music.
from what i've read you just have to delete the icons ;)
-- john
Opera, as of 6.1, allows you to use your current KDE theme/widgets.
I like music
Apple employees used to get a once-in-a-lifetime free macintosh under their loan-to-own program.
I got my Power Macintosh 8500/150 while I was a senior engineer in the OS Integration team of the traditional OS department.
Some amount of the quality of Mac OS Systems version 7.5.2 and 7.5.3 came from my efforts to debug them and tune their performance in my role as debugmeister.
Check out other work I've done on the Mac.
Despite what you may think of it, my 8500 is six years old and still works great. I've never had any trouble with it. I leave it on day in and day out as my main desktop machine & internet gateway.
So yes, I am in fact stupid enough to buy a fucking Mac.
OS X doesn't work so well on such an old machine (although Linux works great). For my OS X work I bought an iBook a few months ago.
Request your free CD of my piano music.
Is there a way to enable "single window mode" in Phoenix 0.4?
My bank has never supported Mozilla. I get a page telling me to 'upgrade' to IE or NS 4.7 because 'these browsers are more secure'.
:)
Now on to the next issue, why would you need a quick start for Phoenix.. it's not fast enough already?
Exactly my concern as a sysadmin who likes to watch his logs. How do I know what people are clicking on, and what browsers are grabbing for them?
I guess it isn't quite different from web spiders indexing my sites, but this is just one more layer of unimportant data.
- passion
That doesn't seem like proper behavior, you're right. File a bug at bugzilla.mozillla.org. That's the best way to get things changed in most open source projects (besides fixing it yourself)
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
Given that the so-called "classic" theme belongs to Netscape 4, I find it a bit hard to understand why they persist in making it the default. Sure, it (sort of) works on a 16-bit display, but I think this browser is really targeted at users with more modern hardware. I always immediately change the theme to "Modern" on any machine I install Moz on.
You're not going to get your problems solved complaining here. Post some bugs to bugzilla.mozilla.org (after searching to make sure someone else hasn't already posted them) and include the URL for your bank.
I'm using mozilla 1.2 in Windows '98. why won't this page or this other one display all of their images properly, but rather show a broken image link placeholder? Works fine in ie 6.0.
evanchik.net
I agree it does need one in the main tree, and should have one. In the meantime, you can download a workable spellchecker http://spellchecker.mozdev.org/installation.html
Dynamic theme switching was disabled in bug 127784 before Mozilla 1.0. There's also a metabug keeping track of the bugs with dynamic theme switching (134260). Look at the bugs blocking 134260 and blocked by 127784 to get an idea of what kinds of problems Mozilla's dynamic theme switching had.
The shareholder is always right.
So, any web site authors out there who want to see browser competition stay alive, I recommend you give this feature serious thought. Even if you love IE and hate Mozilla, a healty competitive environment will keep the pressure on Microsoft to keep improving IE. (You notice how, once they hit over 90% of the browser market, improvements in IE ground to an almost halt?)
users should be able to disable it easily
Yes, there is a hidden preference that you can set to disable link prefetching
Hiding the preference doesn't exactly sound like giving the user control of his browser... The attitude makes it seem like the web site owns the browser - users may not be able to easily change the setting, and sites can choose whether to use it.
What I'd like to see is a mozilla patch which:
1. Creates a preferences section for prefetching, and in this section:
2. Gives the user to turn on and off prefetching.
3. Gives the user the ability to indicate what should be prefetched (prefetch links? next links? anchor links? query links?).
Note that I mentioned anchor links. I agree that this would increase traffic to web servers. Fortunately, I don't run a web server - just a browser. It would be nice to be able to connect to a few websites, go to the bathroom, and find that all the links one or two deep have been fetched for me (especially when using a modem...).
I already find it annoying that wget checks the robots.txt file and doesn't have an easy way to disable this - I have to patch it every time I compile it...
Obviously, it would be irresponsible to configure your browser to fetch all links 10 deep if you're sitting on a T3, however the ability should be present for users who know what they are doing to do precisely this if they know it won't cause trouble (ie - on a bandwidth constrained connection).
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=172097
online secure banking that works in Mozilla 1.1 may not work in Mozilla 1.2. It seems that Moz 1.2 does not send cookies to HTTPS sites, thus preventing some kinds of authentication.
Until this problem is fixed, people who use online banking etc. should stick to Moz 1.1.
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=172097
I downloaded a toolbar that lets me turn graphics, colours and cookies on and off at the click of a button.
This no longer has the little thing at teh side that lets me shrink it down - this was mentioned in the Release Notes.
What I'm puzzling over is why they removed that. Is there any way to make the toolbar shrink up and free screen space now it has gone?
we have ftp [rather than IE] for [downloading Mozilla]
Then how did you download FTP Explorer or some other graphical FTP client for Windows? Or did you really try to navigate the structure of Mozilla's FTP site with the Windows command-line FTP program?
(You wouldn't happen to know KQ of Wikipedia, would you?)
Will I retire or break 10K?
Pop up disable feature. Use this to sell Mozilla to your local Bill Gates fan. It worked for me.
It worked for you only because your local Bill Gates fan did not have the homepage set to The New York Times, which always finds a way to get around Mozilla's popup blocker.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I use mozilla and its email client exclusively on linux. The new features are great and I think it's a great browser. I just keep waiting for the day when I'll be able to play a wav file upon new mail. The gui is now there, and from what I've read, the windows plays wav files fine now, yet still no wav sounds on Linux. Hopefully the developpers will come up with a solution, as this seems to be touchy subject.
That's on your porn site I presume?
How about by OS?
mine
Windows 98 30.4 %
Windows XP 22 %
Windows 2000 21.9 %
Windows NT 10 %
Windows Me 9 %
Windows 95 3.4 %
Mac OS 1.4 %
Unknown 1.2 %
Linux 0.3 %
Sun Solaris, HP Unix, OSF Unix, CPM, WebTV, Aix, Irix, FreeBSD, Windows 3.xx, Warp OS/2, NetBSD, Unknown Unix system all 0% but have visited
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Weird, I did the usual install root, run as root routine, to create whatever it needs to create in its installation directory.
But when I try to run it as a non-root user, nothing happens, no error message.
Any ideas ? I think I'm going back to version 1.0.1 in the meantime.
Someone is wrong on the Internet!
What? Where is the support for this platforms? Why Mozilla is not supporting it?
Is it just me or is prefetching a good way to increase the bandwidth load on the networks? I mean I can see the benefit to the immdiate user, but there IS going to be a fair amount of "unviewed" bandwidth s you might choose to only look at one view of your favorite pron star and not all 50.
...
... then you get into the whole issue of having to protect, a la Outlook, against certain file types.
Couple this with areas with bandwidth caps and pay-per-byte
And of course there is someone setting up prefetch for something nefarious
Yes I know of course you can turn it off, but for the folks that don't I just see this as *possibly* not a good idea in the grand scheme of things.
If you can't be good, be good at it!
Over the years, I've become accustomed to flaky banking support in various browsers. I deal with a number of Australian banks, some of which cope perfectly with any browser I throw at them, while others...suck big-time.
Since I upgraded to 1.2beta, I've had no problems.
I use Moz's HTML editor because sometimes I need to send HTML formatted email to business customers who need the quick orientation that comes from having bold headings and sub-headings.
Only if Netscape could be as fast, stable and super un-bloated as Mozilla releases are. I think they might have a chance of gaining some market share. The reason I say this is that I still know people who use Netscape 4 releases and they are die-hard-core fans too.
The sad part is this will never happen. AOL has just polluted that hell out of the new 7.0 releases. Its really sad too, because they done the same to ICQ, the new Winamp 2, Real player and pretty much every other inet company they have eradicated.
+++ David Watts 5495 0.0 0.5 1888 884
I don't see instructions in the built-in help, and the release notes don't make any mention of it. I poked thru prefs and the address book and didn't see anything. What am I missing?
We have found the enemy and he is us. - Pogo
I may be mistaken, but didn't the 1.2 beta have a pop-up blocking white list preference? I don't see it now.
This was posted to the SpellChecker Email List on 14 Nov 2002. After 2.5 months without a spellchecker for Mozilla on Win32, someone finally released one that works. See http://mozillacafe.org/MozSpell_1.2f_w32.xpi.
Alternatively, you can download working spellcheckers for Linux and Windows from here.
Just in case anyone wondered, using the spellchecker from http://spellchecker.mozdev.org has not worked for Win32 nightly builds, Mozilla 1.1 or 1.2b releases since the end of August. The spellcheck.xpi from Netscape 7 may work for these Linux builds but does not work for Win32.
"I'm The Bounty Bear. I will find him anywhere. I'm searching."
Mozilla.org recommends upgrading to 1.01, especially if you're not interested in being a 1.2 early adopter. I also had problems with 1.0 crashing on Win2K, but since installing the .01 patch, it's been smooth sailing.
Your fantasies contain the seeds of important concepts.
More windows just to pull them all into tabs again. What a waste of time.
Does anyone know of any high traffic Web site that actually uses Prefetch?
Conserve Oil, Recycle, Boycott Walmart
I've been impressed with the increasing levels of stability. I stuck with Moz 1.1 and just upgraded to 1.2 (not beta software thankyou). Moz 1.1 crashed often enough that I'm still not comfortable ditching Netscape as my mail (and news) client. I only use Netscape 4.7x for mail and news under Windows, and I don't recall the last time it crashed. Mozilla 1.1 crashed several times a week for me. Sometimes it seemed to lose cookies or other configuration data after crashing... so how can I trust it with something important to me like email, especially considering the email client started stabilising much later than the browser? Why oh why did they make it one monolithic binary? It's a horrible design! A browser crash (which I can live with) kills everything else too (which I can't) :(
I'm setting up a bot to monitor mozilla releases, and every time a new build is out, it will send a note to /. announcing a new version of Mozilla. Then the article will get at least 546 posts.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
This is the latest stable release from mozilla.org, and all users of Mozilla 1.0, Mozilla 1.0.1, Mozilla 1.1 or any of the alpha/beta/release candidates are encouraged to upgrade to this release.
Now, I'm not going to challenge asa, but according to the roadmap, the 1.x series doesn't supercede the 1.0.x series. I thought 1.0.x was supposed to be the "stable" series. After having enormous problems with 1.1, I decided to play it safe by sticking with 1.0.x and haven't had any problems yet. Additionally, 1.2 doesn't look to have any must-have features for me.
So what gives?
I noticed that the default RH8 release does not explicitly indicate xft support, as one of the beta releases did. Any information on this?
I just switched to Mozilla 1.1 a month or so ago (W2K) & it hasn't crashed on me yet. I'd switched to IE 5 from Netscape years ago, & this has been the first release that's made me happy leaving IE again.
If you have a fast connection and like to help the mozilla project, you should download the daily builds on a regular basis. This helps with bugtracking and fixing so they can continue to release new stable versions for the average users out there. I'm also working with XUL now and will be working on my first mozilla project, http://stormzilla.mozdev.org/ very soon. :-)
mozilla is the future... well, until somethine else cool comes out.
Robby Russell
PLANET ARGON
Robby on Rails
only a few days away? After all, it seems as thought the Phoenix developers were riding the 1.2 stability push on the path to 0.5. And, according to the roadmap, 0.5 is scheduled for a November release.
On a semi-related note, isn't it about time for the Thunderbird stand-alone mail client to be released?
Begun, this browser war has.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Don't use 1.2 if you have yahoo email. 1.2 gets hung in a loop when displaying the basic email page.
1.1 only does this after reading email and then clicking on compose.
I'm extremely wary about the new prefetching feature in Mozilla. The Web caching community has tried this from about every angle, but the general consensus of professionals (with one notable exception) is that prefetching is a bad approach.
For one thing, it assumes free bandwidth; not such a hot idea in a lot of places (e.g., Australia, where you pay per Mb).
I've also had network and server administrators calling me in a panic because they're being flooded with requests from a single machine - whoops.
Prefetching is generally pretty antisocial; it says "my browsing experience is so important, damn your network, damn your servers, I'm getting it all!"
This doesn't mean that it isn't of great interest to the research community, of course; go to any caching-related conference and you'll see earnest proposals for prefetching (along with yet more hyper-optimised replacement algorithms... *sigh*).
Specifically, I'm concerned that the Mozilla implementation won't fare any better; in one way, it's better that it uses explicit prefetching hints (rather than some "optimized" algortithm... I hate heuristics), but OTOH it's horrible; this is ripe for abuse by over-zealous webmasters. I wonder how long it'll be before we see a demo of a DOS attack based on this...
Also, not providing a preference UI to control this isn't so bright; Mozilla has matured past the "world is my debugger" stage, at least in this respect. There are legitimate reasons for turning this off; in fact, I think there's a strong argument for turning this off by default.
Since about 0.9.5, this has been my biggest objection to Mozilla.
A new version comes out. Download the whole package. Reinstall. Reset all of your preferences. Reinstall (or at least copy/move) your plugins. Uninstall the old version. Then a new version comes out. Repeat as necessary.
When are they going to add a patch upgrade procedure? This is a real annoyance, and one that they SHOULD be able to work around without much difficulty.
Aside from that, I use it for 99+% of my web life. There are only three sites I go to which don't support it.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
You know, all newbiews use KDE, so KDE and QT suck...and off course GTK/Gnome rulez
IE was free and then bundled with the OS long before Mozilla even was a thought. Realistically Ms only began to have competition from Mozilla several months ago when 1.0 came out. That means there were several years between the time Netscape died and when Mozilla became usuable. If MS was going to charge they would have done it by now.
:-)
I also think based on the fact that since Mozilla only makes up like 1% of all web browsers AOL isreally not holding anything over MS's head. Lastly even though I said IE has always been free and bundled, we've really always been paying for IE in one way or another in the cost of windows.
This posted using the greatest pure browser available. Phoenix 1125 build.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
Am I the only one who likes the classic theme? i happen to like it alot. I mostly use Galeon but I am also using the mozilla theme for sawfish so my whole desktop looks like mozilla classic.
Ever since 1.0, I believe, Mozilla now has had the @lock file in your personal mozilla directory that prevents multiple instances of Mozilla from being running. The way to work with this is to use something like this Mozilla Starter Script, which you use to replace your existing mozilla starter script (the one called "mozilla" that sets the MOZILLA__FIVE_HOME and executes mozilla-bin). This script allows you to specify whether a new window opens for each new instance or just have it open the URLs in a new tab. I've been using it for a while and I find it very handy.
What is the recommended method of installing a new version without losing settings? Or is it best to just start over from scratch?
As subject, if you look under the Red_Hat_8x_RPMS folder in the mozilla-1.2 directory, there is now two folders: vanilla and xft , with pre-built RPMs! Get them now from a mirror...
Now if only I'd waited a couple of hours ;-)
" To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research. "
Uh, that's WinAmp3 einstein. also, if you really don't like bloat you'd be chillin' with Phoenix; it's the most. if yr still in win32, then you shouldn't even be talkin bout bloat go format c: then install some slack.
get sum.
Also very nice is the fact that Phoenix needs not to be installed. It just works anywhere you unzip it.
Mozilla will work the same way. If you get the big zip file instead of the installer, Mozilla also Just Works. Or it did last I checked.
The problem with it is that it doesn't include talkback, but on a milestone, it doesn't seem to matter much. I can't remember the last time a milestone crashed on me.
Textbooks and Open Educational Resources
What makes Phoenix different than Galeon in terms of features?
Less is more !
Likewise, if you write C code that does not conform to the standard, don't be surprised if you find a compiler that chokes on the code. There's a reason for habing standards. Use them!
What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
Do they exist or can I safely use 8.0 RPMs? Also, will they affect Galeon?
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Supported by many of your favorite P2P apps!
mozilla-i686-pc-linux-gnu-1.2.tar.gz Magnetmozilla-win32-1.2-talkback.zip Magnet
mozilla-macosX-1.2.smi.bin Magnet
I haven't tried Linux yet with https, but I will do that.
I upgraded from 1.2b under WinXP with Multizilla and the Optimoz pie menus installed, and ran into a bunch of problems (couldn't open more than one tab, multizilla says it's installed, but doesn't appear in preferences, can't go to new web pages after the initial one loads, etc.) When I was fooling around with the nightlies, I often ran into similar problems.
If you're getting odd behaviour from Mozilla, uninstall it, go to your C:\Documents and Settings\\Application Data directory, and backup the Mozilla directory in there. Remove the Mozilla directory, and then do a clean install of Mozilla. After you're done, you can restore things like your bookmarks or whatever.
> Yes I know of course you can turn it off, but for
> the folks that don't I just see this as *possibly*
> not a good idea in the grand scheme of things.
I couldn't agree more. There really hasn't been much discussion about the problems with pre-fetching. I'm an avid Mozilla fan, but since this feature is turned on by default with no *easy* (and by easy, I mean Joe Sixpack can find it without bothering to read anything more than his options menu) way of turning it off, I'm starting to wonder if the Mozilla folks have just turned a dangerous corner.
I've been giving this some thought since the beta release, and here's why I think it's a VERY bad feature to have turned on by default (and remember I'm looking from the perspective of someone not knowing this feature even exists, let alone how to edit a config file - ie: my parents/grandparents/non-geeks):
* Using Moz at work - For those people who choose to use Mozilla at work, one of the problems I see with pre-fetching is that inappropriate sites could be pre-fetched without a user's consent. If a strict browsing policy is in place, This could end up looking very bad for someone who didn't do anything wrong. A quick check of the weather could end up looking like an hour spent browsing the net. Or, even worse, this could cause numerous hits to blacklisted sites which could then cause some form of backlash from a strict employer.
* Shady content providers - Why would I want some content provider to force 50 potential 'next browse' pages on me (even if I don't notice my bandwith being hogged)? It will inflate their server hits, and thus potentially create a selling point to get more advertisers. But 90% of a website's hits may never be viewed by a user. I can see this as a sneaky way for people just trying to inflate their site numbers.
* Unkown exploits - Every software has bugs. But finding those bugs does not necessarily mean that exploiting them is easy. This feature strikes me as one which will come back to bite you.
* Waste of resources - My CPU, my hard drive, my choice. Enough said.
Anyone else annoyed/worried/paranoid about this feature? I'm a little ticked at the Mozilla developer's view of this *feature* as something that if people want to turn it off, then the implementation should be changed so that people want it on. I think this reasoning is fundamentally flawed in that the problems will not be solved by changing the implementation. The problem, in my opinion, is the feature itself.
WRONG!
I have been using 1.2 versions for ages without any problems with online banking.
Check your preferences for enabling cookies.
If you look at the bug again, you will notice it is now marked WORKSFORME (and indicating that it was a user settings issue).
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1720 97
I have an intellimouse explorer and I can't use my forward and back mouse buttons in mozilla. This has been listed on bugzilla for over 2 years. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would give mozilla a try if basic things like this worked out of the box.
Downloaded it, cleared out 1.1, installed it. And bam - I'm getting errors from dlls. Themes don't work. Updates don't work. Dlls errors reporting on close.
So I wipe it, put on 1.1 - no problems. Back to 1.2 - problems. I downloaded several different versions of 1.2. Nothing helps.
Note: I've never had problems with Mozilla before. It's disappointing. Back 1.1 for me.
I truly love Mozilla and all of its children and have been using it since M9, but this prefetch feature: won't this influence the statistics?
/dev/random and Type Ahead: It should be possible to randomly access pages leaving the Mozilla-footprint in every webservers log. Neat!
Will we not see an amazing increase in viewed pages per mozilla-user, thus creating the illusion that Mozilla has a bigger userbase than it in fact has?
Think about it: pages I would normally never view are now cached without me ever seeing them. If they are cached, they are being logged by the webserver serving those pages. The logs will have a huge increase in Mozilla activity.
Hmmm. Come to think of this: how about setting up a few bots that surf all over the place using Mozilla-based browsers! Should be easy enough, especially with
(Yes, I've tried posting to the Mozilla newsgroups, but this is exactly the kind of request that gets ignored by everyone there.)
Three nights ago someone broke part of chrome and I couldn't even fire up a Navigator. I know I'm getting what I'm asking for by running nightlies but come on, don't individual developers even test their changes? At all?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
As the AC mentioned, the grippers to collapse toolbars were removed for usability reasons. The details, if you really want to know (or just skim) are chronicled in several bug reports. Here's one of them.
I am using moz 1.2 on mac OS X and there are a few little things I have issues with:
/. does but ESPN or CNN's does not. They all work fine in Chimera.
l
#1 How exactly do I tell moz to open a group of bookmarks in separate tabs on launch? I can't figure this out.
#2 Why are bookmark icons so screwed? Moz does not honor them in the favorite bar and not every site's icon works.
#3 The download manager is still just an empty box. Does this not work in 1.x for OS X? Am I doing something wrong?
#4 Can we get ALL of the widgets to display aqua and not just some already? Apparently the gtk and XP coders have done this in their versions
Other than that...it works great. For you mac OS X lovers, a way to make it look even more aqua-like (buttons, proper tab structure, pulsing "M" is the more familiar pinwheel) check out this theme:
http://www.kmgerich.com/pinstripe/pinstripe.htm
this is the day i've been waiting for
let the type-ahead madness begin
when they are sent, pre-fetch requests are labeled as such. So a site getting the requests can keep track of regular vs. pre-fetch requests.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
That's one thing I've hated since NS4.0. I'm
always hitting those "grippies" by mistake, and
on Solaris they take what seems like hours to
do their thing. They were very disruptive.
I have Mozilla set as my mail client, yet mailto: links in IE open in Outlook Express. Sigh...
see subject
I will be downloading 1.2 or a current nightly (I've gotten behind) soon enough just for this. Well, some of the other things sounds fine too, but the ability to have a multi-tab startup is something I've craved for a while.
Since (like me) there are more and more people who work primarily from a web interface (even if that's still a small absolute number of people), tab features are really nice.
Thanks Mozilla people.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Just download the free version of 98lite from www.litepc.com and use it to uninstall IE (and even install the older faster win95 shell). This is of course if you're on Win9x, if you're in Win2k then you're out of luck.
Yes winamp3 (typo). I do not have a problem with Mozilla; I do not consider it as bloat also I do use Phoenix. I just don't see what your problem is. GUI? Linux is not any better then Windows, actually Windows is far superior in many perspectives. Linux should just be left to what it's really superior and powerful at, server related tasks.
+++ David Watts 5495 0.0 0.5 1888 884
but when are they going to add Environment Variables
well! i can fix that...
erm, what's your URL?
Just raise the taxes on crack.
I didn't start using Mozilla regularly until 1.0, but I, too, never noticed any problems with the articles on CNN.com.
People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
Ahh, in every Mozilla story, I let myself get suckered into this same discussion. Always some self-selected spokesman who seems to think that he knows what the "correct" standard is for you and me.
No doubt this person thinks the "correct" standards are the various three-letter acronyms that various standards bodies publish long after the various technologies have been implemented in divergent ways.
Well, here comes your clue: your so-called "correct" standards don't matter a whit. Unlike the tech elite, most users just want to be able to access content on the internet. If that means supporting broken HTML, then broken HTML must be supported. If that means displaying Flash, Windows Media, or <put favorite propritary technology here>, then that means making the effort to either support it, or to degrade gracefully.
Arrogant comments like yours further alienate the 99.44% of users who are not tech wizards, and will help keep Mozilla and its offspring as just interesting sideshow, as a single-percentage niche player. If you look at what real users actually use, it is overwhelmingly InternetExplorer. Users will not consider switching to a browser where its proponents, instead of trying to support non-standards and de-facto standards, just pontificate about how what they want to do is somehow "non-standard." <sarcasm>Yes, that'll help the cause. OK, Mr. Correct Standards, since you know what the correct standards are, please tell us what significant website you run which only adheres to "correct standards", IE be damned. And while you're at it, please provide us with the number of paying users that your website has.
Here's my prediction: you don't run any website of significance. You don't have any paying customers. So no surprise that it's no big deal to you if you don't care about more than 95% of internet users. You'd be singing a different tune otherwise.
P.S. Galeon is the king, Phoenix the pretender to the throne
Hey, Windows users, there is no such thing as "forward" slash, there is only slash and backslash.
You just have to change a super-visited site (e.g., slashdot) template to load other site pages (specialy database generated ones). Now every visitor will unknownly download pages of this other site. What about that for a distributed Denial of Service attack?
At least the REFERER log will show the offending site.
use commands like "ls" and "cd" to find the file you want.
When the file you want is buried four or more levels deep, and you're not familiar with the FTP site's tree? You can't use Archie because it isn't up anymore, and you can't use Google because you are avoiding IE.
Will I retire or break 10K?
if you are unfamilar with the ftp sites tree i would suggest you use the "ls" and "cd" commands to find the file you want. there is no difference between clicking on a directory in ie and 'cd dirname' in ftp. you are essentially doing the same thing.
for example if you ftp to mozilla:
ftp ftp.mozilla.org
look in pub then look in mozilla and next releases you will find:
"/pub/mozilla/releases/mozilla1.2b"
i've never ftp'ed to mozilla before and this took about a 45 seconds. at this point you can download mozilla without much trouble. learning how to navigate ftp sites with the commandline is not that hard and can be a useful thing to understand when you are stuck with computers lacking other software you are familar with.
-- john
Finally a useful browser feature for us who like to avoid using the mouse. This will get me one step closer to no-mouse nirvana. I have had the exact same thoughts about extending IE with some plugin to do the same thing, bu now Mozilla beat me to it.
y /t ypeaheadfind.html
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/ui/accessibilit
Yippie!
The difference being that I tried Mozilla 1.1 along with my default IE6 side-by-side for a while. Mozilla 1.1 WAS slower. And I don't like things to be slow. I really liked the feature-set of Mozilla though.
Then came Phoenix 0.3. This is all of the features I find useful in Moz PLUS some extra niceties like native widgets, without the crap I don't use.
It is everything I've wanted. Now, when I have to use someone else's IE, it is a horrible experience usually involving lots of middle clicking by accident.
First, the Bugzilla bug reporting interface has recently been simplified. Nevertheless, reporting a bug is not something that a non-technical person should do. You can't just report a bug and expect other people to do all the work for you. You have to keep troubleshooting, etc, even as a bug reporter. It's a lot of work. If a non-techie finds a bug, they should tell a technical person about it and have that person handle the reporting of it on Bugzilla.
Second, I agree with what you said about all the little bugs that make Mozilla a very annoying experience. There are a lot of intermittent bugs. Right now in 1.3a, Find in Page/Ctrl+F sometimes stops working. Then, starts working again. The basic problem is that Mozilla is not run like Apache or OpenBSD. There's not enough quality control at the developer level. There's also a huge problem with the Mozilla Organization frequently doing things for reasons that they never bother to explain. Why this instead of that? They won't bother to tell you.
Third, I wish you would have been more specific about the bugs your wife has found. Just saying "bugs" isn't descriptive, as there are over ten thousand open, known bugs.
Fourth, I would suggest providing Phoenix instead of Mozilla. Phoenix has fixed a lot of old problems. The application suite known as "Mozilla" is not really intended for the average end-user. It's more like a proof-of-concept that shows everything that the Mozilla codebase taken as a whole can do. For just browsing, Phoenix is probably superior. On Mac, try Chimera.
trying Dreamweaver is like using IE and then trying Mozilla/Phoenix.
Same jaw-dropping results.
Well, first off I would suggest you getting her on Phoenix, and not Mozilla.
1) Phoenix Looks better (and is more costimizable*)
(*meaning in an easy drag and drop way)
2) It's faster and doesn't inculde all the rest of the things your wife doesn't use
(mail/chatzilla/etc.)
3) Themes... Funny enough as it sounds, this way you can make your wife "feel at home" again.
4) Stability. For some odd reason Phx, feels a bit more secure than Moz.
I just converted my girlfriend and her familyover to Phoenix. I understand your pain.
I'm a mozilla user, (I use mail, chatzilla, all of it) and am so happy with it. But when my girlfriend would get on my computer, she hated it. Saying it respondes slowly, was ugly, etc.
I then installed Phoenix on her computer, and installed the Qute theme (and LUNA) here;
Qute , Luna
(Luna's a copy of IE's interface)
(my girlfriend loved the Qute theme)
I loaded it up, changed the Phoenix Icon to
on her desktop (download the icons here;
ICON site
And in 10min, taught her to use Tab browing, (how to save tab groups as a bookmark (great for research), easy searching, and how to costimize her toolbar (drag'n'drop can't be easier). She was hooked.
At first her impresion was "No, not mozilla please" but within a day, she grinned at me and said "I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually really like it allot better than IE)
This coming from a 20year girl who's studying Finances. I was pleased!
My next step is to teach her Mousegestures, that will definitally get her hooked (no way going back after that).
Mouse gestures
For all type of way to custimize Phoenix I recommend you start here;
Phoenix Help
Cheers, and hope this has helpes you out with your convert!! =)
After seeing this story I promptly downloaded 1.2. A minute ago I logged on to Washington Mutual to check up on my accounts, and everything worked without a flaw.
Everything that people are requesting in this thread IS available. You have to get the tabbed browsing extension. I think that's what the top poster was referring to as going to "find and obscure plug-in"...
I don't think it's that hard to get it or configure it. Just go to Tools-->Themes and Extensions--> and click on Get New Extensions. Then click on the Tabbed Browsing Extensions. Then you'll have a bunch more options underneath the Tabbed Browsing entry in the preferences. It's really not THAT hard. And I think the default tabbing options that are included initially are suitable for normal users. NO need to confuse users with a myriad of options if they don't care. If you want more fine-grained control, pick up the aforementioned extension. That's what it's there for. Not a big deal.
Oh, also, regarding the default theme... I believe there's a way to CHANGE themes if you don't like the one you're using. But that would probably require going into those SCARY preferences again and it would probably be under some obscure menu option such as Themes and Extensions or something like that. *shudder*
Mail/News in Mozilla is stilly incredibly crappy. There is more bugs than I can name. One of the bugs causes me to lose all my mail every other week and it has been there for more than a year. They just can not reproduce and fix it. I'd be so happy to switch to something that _works_...
Hi there...
Is there a way I can tell Win32 Moz to use Outlook for mail, Outlook Express for news, etc?
Thank you!
M.
The release notes doesn't say, but I can finally forward more than 8 messages to 1 recipient.
nt
Opera 7 beta on Windows now seems to use it's own widgets rather than windows ones. The current exceptions to this seem to be scroll bars, menus and legacy dialogues (like the preferences, which should be replaced by the time it finishes beta).
According to one of the Operafolk there should be less lag between Windows and other platforms in the 7 series because even more of the code is cross platform. It'll be interesting to see if the custom widgets are part of that.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
You could do the same thing with any one of images, iframes, objects, javascript etc etc etc.
There is nothing new to fear from prefetching.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Which has those security problems fixed. If your opera:about says build 2349 you've got the newer one. If it's a lower build than that you should consider downloading "Opera for Windows Beta 1 v.2" from their website
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
-V
Just set your MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME environment variable to the install dir of mozilla 1.2 and it works. However, don't blame me if you suffer crashes! I haven't had any problems so far (~ 60 mins).
.bash_profile:
t MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME
Here's a snippet of my
MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME='/usr/lib/mozilla-1.2'
expor
HTH
Look, I'll probably upgrade just to save the Moz people worrying about one more user on an older version.
But I have to say that this is the first time that I have seen a Moz release that I don't need or want any of the new features.
BTW re Type ahead find: I feel particularly sorry for the Afrotheria specialists. I get the feeling that trying to type ahead for aardvark won't be that easy.
Maybe I'm getting too old for this ish..
So does Anonymous Coward have good karma?
This still does not work for some online banks.
(e.g. lloydstsb.co.uk)
The bug has been marked as WORKSFORME, but it does
not work for some who has been experiencing
the problem.
oops, my bad, the lloydstsb thing is slightly different... http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=164260
> The main reason why I have never loaded Netscape as my default
> browser.. well, at first IE was simply better.
Huh? At first, IE was distilled donkey urine. It didn't become
usable as a substitute for Netscape until version 5. (Granted,
version 5 was not the fifth version really, but nevermind that.)
It wasn't better than Netscape until version 5.5, at which point
Netscape had released basically nothing in quite a long while.
> Then it was because Windows is unstable enough as it is.. why
> would I want to have two browsers loaded? (IE forces itself
> into memory of course)
This is mostly right, but there are two points. First, with
Windows 95 it is possible to not have IE installed. (There's
also IERadicator for Win98, but I'm talking about just not
having IE installed in the first place.) Second, if you do
the upgrade to IE6, do the custom install, and click on the
advanced button, you can get it to not set itself as the default
browser; if you do that, I _think_ it also doesn't force itself
on you at startup. I'm not certain, but that's how it _appears_
to work.
> with Netscape's little "web development" menu, that somehow
> convinced me IE was better
What? IE is better because Netscape has extra features for web
developers that IE doesn't have? I don't understand how you
could reach that conclusion from that observation. non sequeteur.
> Now it seems Netscape is coming out with new features and IE
> is outright stagnant.
Mozilla comes out with new versions more often than IE, yes.
> I think Netscape's CSS compliance has always been better as well
Only since Netscape 6. The CSS compliance in Netscape 4 was even
worse than the CSS compliance in IE4. (Yes, really. A lot worse,
even. So bad, many pages render better if you _disable_ CSS.)
Of course, when Netscape 4 first came out, barely any web pages
used CSS at all, so you didn't see the problems. If you go back
and try to use Netscape 4 now, you'll see that it gets the style
horribly wrong most of the time.
No time to reply to the rest; my family wants me to help with the
food...
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
I still need to browse some sites that use Active/X. Are there any "alternative" browsers that support them?
It still doesn't work for Deutsche Bank. My settings defaulted to allowing the above permissions. This was Moz 1.2 running under Win 2K with https connection to www.db24.com, online banking portal.
See my journal, I write things there
I argue very well. Ask any of my remaining friends. I can win an argument on
any topic, against any opponent. People know this, and steer clear of me at
parties. Often, as a sign of their great respect, they don't even invite me.
-- Dave Barry
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