Slashdot Mirror
Web Server Packed into RJ45 Connector
VinceTronics writes "Electronic Design magazine has a review (.pdf) of the XPort by Lantronix, a product that packs an entire web server into the volume of an RJ45 connector! This includes an 80186 controller, an OS, the TCP/IP stack, a 10/100 Ethernet transceiver, and the LAN interface magnetics. Downside is that the serial interface to the controller tops out at 300 kbps, but for $33 (in 10K quantities) it's a cool, easy way to net-enable just about anything."
Just in case: The PDF review doc
RudeDude
Perl/Linux/PHP hacker
I used to have an ear ring that could run seti@home.
You'll have that sometimes...
It's a good thing that the review wasn't hosted on one of these things! They sound really cool, but there's no way they'd handle a slashdotting! Then again...maybe a Beowulf cluster of them would...
Now my fridge, toaster, washer & dryer can have their own IP addresses & websites.
Bring on IPv6 to deal with it!
Sure, a lot of these devices seem cool (and I'll agree that they are), but to me and others in my line of work they're a security nightmare. Due to the small size, it's not hard build a device that could be hidden inside of a building on a network leaving it open to the person who left it there.
I'd still love to have one to play around with, though!
Downside is that the serial interface to the controller tops out at 300 kbps
This seems doesn't seem like that big of a deal, for the kind of appications this is targeted for (security system modules, refrigerators, answering machines, etc...) I'd think 300 kbps is more than adaquate, you can even do some streaming video, with a reasonable bit-rate.
Cloud City Digital: DVD Production at its cheapest/finest
...it'd be really small.
What sort of applications would this be used for? PC-based terminals like cash registers and the like, which could then be maintained from a central point using a web interface? I'm just trying to wrap my head around why this would be useful...
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
If somehow someone puts one of those in your network closet (or heck, anywhere on the network), good luck finding it -- it's a connector for godsakes!
Trolls lurk everywhere. Mod them down.
lack of.
Ie I think an aeroplane would be better off using a rj45 in the chair arm, and now they can squish the server in there too. Now we just have to solve how to connect it to the rest of the internet without interferring with the navigation systems and anti missile targetting.
It sure beats installing the webserver in a blowfly.
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
Imagine being able to check on the temparature of your fridge over the internet. Even install a web cam inside it. Check what groceries you need from work.
Pow. Cheep, web enabled fridge.
The only problem would be script kiddies. I 0wnzers your cuccumber man
-- Hulver's site
Sounds interesting. You take a modern Refrig. and you have all of the internal processor(s) and sensor(s) output their data to this thing and then while I'm sitting at work I can check and see how well my Fridge is running..
It might be more fun in the TV so it can keep a log of with the kids and the Spouse are watching not to mention the washing machine! [Dirty water detected, extend wash cycle (yes) (no)].
http://www.hawknest.com/
Embedded systems. Put one in your toaster, fridge, hair dryer, internal diagnostics on your TV, spa, whatever. It's not meant to be a webserver for a high bandwidth website, but more for controlling some device via a web interface.
..for cheap home electronic devices you might want to web-enable (i.e. tell the 100-DVD jukebox to have the following playlist ready when you get home, have the fridge print you out dinner recipies, blah blah blah), but with 512kb of flash for the web pages and a (relatively) slow interface, they certainly wouldn't be useful for serving (and they aren't really being sold as such, despite what the tagline says - the PDF mentions serving, but the main push seems to be monitoring & control..good idea for something like this).
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
Yes these are cool but what purpose would they exactly serve in such a large number? beowulf cluster anyone?
# ssh -l neo the_matrix; killall -9 agent_smith
Anything embeddable sells in tens of thousands. Stationary computers are the least produced computer type. Just imagine all microcontrollers in VCRs for example. I'd say that there are far more than 10000 VCRs sold each year. Now embedd a webserver into each VCR, so that you can program the timer over your private LAN. Thats a possible 10000 units. Now put the same protocol in your digital TV reciever/decoder to change channels, update codes, subscribe to PPV shows etc. and let the VCR change the channel of the decoder and you've got another 10k units.
10k is a small number in the embedded world.
Now, for the real price:. html
"The list price of the XPort is $49.00. Discount pricing on the XPort is also available in volumes of ten thousand."
according to http://www.lantronix.com/news/pr/2003/02-24-xport
no no, you cant do that silly.. read the article.. its rj45 in -> serial out.. so you can control things like toasters and kettles..
moo
Ok, imagine your company makes sensors that output their results via RS-232 serial. Or controllers that are given commands via RS-232 serial. Or maybe you have machinery that is programmed through RS-232 serial. Either way, your would like to access those products remotely, and RS-232 just doesn't go very far. Add this thing, and suddenly your products are web-enabled.
The price is a bit high still, but there is a lot of equipment where $33 extra a unit would not scare customers away.
Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
the Siteplayer is bigger but does more and is easily afforded by nearly anyone at $29.00 in SINGLE QUANTITIES so buy one and mess with it, make the first toaster with an IP address, 10baseT and a web interface (I did. though it was neat, then dismantled it because it was reallllly silly.)
http://www.siteplayer.com/ is the place to go.
If you cant buy the product in single quantities for a very reasonable price, then it's not worth messing with.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
You have some device which has a variety of data about it's operation. This lets' you store that data (for some period of time), let's others access this data, and could allow for some remote interaction.
1) Yes or NO, Allow or Cancel
2) It could be used in more interesting ways.
a) Built into a Phone, it could download and store rates of various phone companies based on area code and time of day and then the phone could use this database to route your call to the beste carrier.
b) Built into a device that used lots of energy (electrical or other types) it could download times when it was allowed or not allowed to be operated (based on over all usage in the system ((household, local, town-wide, or even on the reginal grid)).
c) Built into devices in a hospital or an office, it would provide all sorts of data about the operational status of critical equipment.
http://www.hawknest.com/
Check what groceries you need from work.
How about eatable RFID embedded in food, someone ?
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Ultra-Small Server Web-Enables Any System Providing access to a LAN or the Internet, a Web server squeezed in an RJ45 connector shroud packs a full TCP/IP stack and OS. As companies trim labor overheads, they~Rre looking to fill the void with remote diagnostics, maintenance, and data collection. One method is to Web-enable more systems to use the Internet and World Wide Web to collect data and diagnose or control systems. Webenabling typically meant adding a local-area network (LAN) interface, a controller, a software transmission- control-protocol/Internet-protocol (TCP/IP) stack, and other circuitry and software. Now, all that has been squeezed into the basic RJ-45 connector shroud (0.64 in. by 0.57 in. by 1.34 in.), which would typically be soldered to the pc board. All the circuit design and pc-board space the LAN circuitry requires is now eliminated. The Lantronix DSTni-XPort lets designers without any LAN/Internet experience create Internet-ready systems in minutes. Within the connector shroud, the DSTni-XPort packs the company~Rs DSTni-LX (an 80186-based controller), a 2-kbyte boot ROM, 256 kbytes of SRAM, 512 kbytes of flash memory, a 10/100 autosensing Ethernet transceiver, a high-speed serial port, three programmable I/O pins, bicolor LEDs for diagnostics, the LAN interface magnetics, and a full TCP/IP network stack and operating system (OS) . Thus, the XPort delivers a full device server in the space consumed by only the connector. Designed to operate from a 3.3- V supply, the XPort functions from -40C to 85C. It costs about $33 each in 10,000-unit lots. Lantronix Inc. www.lantronix.com (949) 453-3990
I didn't see where this is a full webserver. The documentation seemed to indicate that it's a TCP/IP handler. You put serial data in one side and TCP/IP network packets come out the other side.
At least, that's what it's targetted at; an addition to an existing embedded system. I don't think you could just write a backdoor and stick it on a network and expect it to work. Probably not enough memory/CPU capacity for that sort of thing...
I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
Everyone suggests that these could be used in toasters, fridges, etc. etc... But would you actually run cables to all of these devices?
I can just picture Old Man Stevens handing his wife a juicer for her birthday. Old Lady Stevens lets out a little sigh and grabs a crimper and a spool of Cat5.
FIGHT THE FUTURE!
A hub looking like a hedgehog.
web cam inside it.> At last! We will finally know if that little light really does turn off when you close the door!
Sounds like an experience I had about 10 years ago.. I blew the removable flash bios chip on a motherboard. :( So after calling manufacturers all over the place, I managed to find one that sold the chips in qtys' of one.
"Great!", I thought. "This will be easy."
Two weeks later, and some after some head-scratching, I realized I was the feeling-silly owner of a brand-new, BLANK, flash bios chip.
"it's a cool, easy way to net-enable just about anything."
I'd suggest editing the comment, 'Easy' is relative.
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
a wireless version of this.. now that would be intergrated ;)
moo
At $33 each in quantity, I don't think we are going to see them in toasters anytime soon.
As far as embedded systems goes, this is an order of magnitude or so too expensive. Manufacturers pinch pennies on even larger items like TV's, as each dollar increase in cost translates into something like $5 to the consumer, and potentially millions to the bottom line.
Frankly, this technology isn't even appropriate anyway. For something more in line with the applications you are thinking about, look here where the technology is already imbedded in millions of consumer devices.
I'm really wondering who would buy these in a quantity of 10,000.
Soft drink and snack machines, Scanners in factories, traffic counters, any equipment that that you want to query remotely to see if it is operating.
If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem
but dead flies are smaller, cheaper, and in greater abundance :)
...it's a cool, easy way to net-enable just about anything.
Which is fine, but the REAL killer device will be an embeddable, commodity-level wireless interface--whether 802.11 or its successor--paired with ubiquitous wireless access, at least on par with current digital cell service. I estimate we're only a few years away from the latter, and the former is already more or less available in the PCMCIA form factor.
When my toaster oven can download Pop-Tart-warming instructions from its manufacturer's website without an additional cable to the wall, that'll be something.
is there room on that thing for the linux kernel?
This is a great product but it pulls over 200 mills, not so great for low power embedded work.
What this could really use is a pass-through ethernet hub built into the device, so that you can drop it in-line with a cable in place of some existing connecter...
On my fridge ( german can't remember the make off hand) the litle light DOESN'T turn off but goes dim instead
Something to do with keeping the internal temperature up if the external temperature is too low.
As me how I know Go on. Go on.
No, on second thoughts don't, it isn't interesting
N
Yeah. It's a shame, because one having one of these things would be cool. I could finally retire my gi-fscking-normous old IBM full tower and replace it with an RJ45 ; )
I don't suppose there's 2000 other people out there thinking the same thing, are there? . . .
"If being a geek means being passionate about something, then I pity those who aren't geeks." - Pike65
Please spare us, can people NOT post the requisite "their webserver must have been hosted on one of these" comments that this type of story always brings out like worms after a shower?
I browse Slashdot at +3, Funny
Then don't think of fridges think of ovens. DL a new recipe and the oven will take care of all the temperature adjustments and timing you just put your food in and press 'GO'.
The applications are only limited by your imagination.
- Toby
Technology likes this really shows off how useful an open, ASCII-based, protocol can be.
It's a web server with an RJ45 port. How exactly will that "net-enable just about anything"?
Sure, you can plug a webserver into anything that happens to have an existing RJ45 port, but what use would that be? (Just what I've always wanted... a web server that I can plug into my laptop so I can browse the web at a blazing 300k/sec.)
I want to net-enable my car. Someone tell me how this RJ45 device will allow that. My car doesn't even have an RJ45 port...
I don't know about edible, but I do like this idea; for most fruit, you could embed the tag in the skin, for example. I'd actually really like to be able to get a list of stuff in the fridge, be warned when something's approaching the eat-by date...
Better still: some RFID tags have sensors in. A simple Perl script could track a shopping list for me, and either order replacements online or be synced to a PDA for shopping. Maybe even couple it with a Pricewatch-type site, so I know which supermarket would be cheapest for that particular list; work out what recipe I could make, or what I'd need to add.
Alternatively - if this device can do 300 Kbit/sec in this version, how about cable-modem/ADSL routers? Up the bandwidth a bit, it would handle the load OK; as it is, it could make a nice easy dialup router. $33 with a serial port - add a simple modem, and you have the ultimate plug+play ISP: one end in the phone socket, the other in the NIC, and it's all preconfigured!
I fully admit that my understanding of electronics is pretty weak, and I am confused.
I don't get it?
Everyone keeps talking about how you can hook up your toaster, coffee maker, etc. Do these devices have a serial port?
How would one interface with any of these kind of devices unless they had some sort of output interface?
I can see where these might work well with older legacy devices(printers, etc), and you want to be able put them on a network, but I fail to see how they would help in your home.
Enlightment anyone?
Imagine being able to check on the temparature of your fridge over the internet. Even install a web cam inside it.
That would be SO cool! I'd finally be able to get the PROOF of the existance of the little guy who turns on and off the light in my fridge!
Ed Wedig
Graphic design services
docbrown.net
Now I really CAN be root on your toaster. Isn't technology wonderful?
Cole's Axiom: The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant. The population is growing.
That depends on how its implemented. Home automation can be a huge convenience - or if implemented badly, a huge inconvenience.
I have a custom made system. I can control garden lights, alarms, etc from a Windows CE based panel built into the kitchen wall. You may ask why. Well if it was just to control a light or two then theres no point.
But I can at a glance see if ive left any windows open around the house before going to sleep, turn off the garden and home lights and turn on the alarm at a press of the button. I can click a button and see a logfile of all numbers that called while ive been away. I can select an MP3 and have the speakers throught the house gently play in in the background. It may seem like an expensive and unneccesary luxury, but advancments in networking such as this web server are making it a cheap reallity.
Damn scr1p7 k19913s hacked my toaster - now all it serves up is toast with burn marks that reads "r00ted ya"
A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
Well, no, a toaster isn't a good example.
Stuff like air conditioning/heating control units, media stuff like VCRs, PVRs, etc, and of course, lightswitches and power outlets to make those damn X-10 modules (and their popups) obsolete.
N.
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
Food service organizations must regularly monitor and log the temperature of their refrigerators. If one is off for any reason, the Health Department gets verrrrry testy. A net enabled device to check the temp does not substitute for showing up in person with a thermometer. However, this would allow them to spot trouble brewing before the health inspectors find it.
It's my Beowulf Cluster. :^)
- Having your lights switched by the computer
- Your microwave starts making food when crond tells it to
- Log when people ring the doorbell
- Automatically switch off all lights when you press a master switch when leaving the house
I'll bookmark it. If the price ever decreases to less than $30 a piece, I'll consider to buy some..sig: No such file or directory
This would be an ideal platform for running a password capturing packet sniffer. Then the software could then IRC you the captured passwords, or it could auto-compromise other boxes on the lan and make them do it. Too bad about the pricetag. We need more inexpensive platforms suitable for this particular application.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Any sane manufacturer is not going to add a $33 part to a $70 VCR. This is completely the wrong application. Frankly, VCR's already have a decent enough CPU
to web enable them for much less money than this part - like $3 for a single chip ethernet interface.
Think of a webcam or something where you take that part, this, and bingo, webcam, front-door intercom, etc. Considering the price of similar items on the market, this still seems very expensive for lower-end applications.
Add this thing, and suddenly your products are web-enabled.
add another, hack with the tcpip stack, and your fridge is now a router!
We're like rats, in some experiment! -- George Costanza
And you could also make one wireless... I think the only thing limiting you could be power consumption. But having a wall wart plugged into one of these under somebody's desk- that seems doable.
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
and we have the ultimate spy-device. heck, this ain't using any bandwidth, is super small and can transmit its findings via W-lan to the receiver in that unmarked white van outside the office building. that thing is powered via the network-interface, so no need for batteries or anything.
now if you only could produce such a thing in a form factor like a plug, not a socket, you wouldn't even need cable to spy on the network. just plug it in some unused office in the building or in a spare network outlet somewhere in the offices, no one will notice that. can be put secretly in place by the cleaning maid, can spy forever, can hardly be detected.
Actually, couldn't they just have a webserver on board, and cache several sites, like news sites, etc. People wouldn't be able to browse the internet, but they would be able to browse something. That doesn't allow people to email, but it would be something. I am sure the airlines could sell advertising for the hosted web pages. It seems feasable.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Where does it say that the device is running Windows? All I could find is that there's a Windows based configuration utility, and a Windows based com port redirector.
"A terrorist is someone who has a bomb but doesn't have an air force." -William Blum
Oh yeah, keep in mind that VCR manufacturers are too freaking cheap to add a simple battery to even high-end SVHS models so you keep having to set the clock when power is lost for as little as 3 seconds. Instead, they think of ways to try and get time off the networks - trouble is that this doesn't work if you have a cable box. Sigh.
Although it is smaller than your thumb, the XPort contains all of the hardware and software required to Web-enable any device, including:
10Base-T/100Base-TX auto-sensing Ethernet connection
Mature, robust operating system
Embedded HTTP-compliant Web server
Programmable e-mail alerts
Extensive networking protocol suite including full TCP/IP stack
128-bit AES Rijndael encryption
Jellomizer's post is an "ovious lie" ;-)
Andre060
i would rather use a fly
Downside is that the serial interface to the controller tops out at 300 kbps, but for $33 (in 10K quantities) it's a cool, easy way to net-enable just about anything."
The size is a big factor but there are already full blown devices that can do far more then this and are cheaper. Take a look at some DSL/Cable routers. Siemens sells one that is a 10/100 4 port switch, web interface and control, printer port, firewall, etc... for $19 and $28. Many SMC barricades and Linksys models are going for under $40. These devices might not fit into a toaster but I know they could be made smaller. I know comparing these to the articles product is not apples to apples but there are cheaper and more robust web and network enabled devices already out on the street.
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
Of course a $33 component woun't find its way into low-end products. However, a new VCR with a harddrive and DVD+RW will cost you more. And it is more probable that the customers buing these units will be interested in an ethernet interface than a customer looking for a cheap unit.
As for thinking about new products, it is easy to come up with numerous units that would benefit from networking. Especially standardized m2m communications would make things much easier for the users.
..."Embedded HTTP-compliant Web server" don't You understand? Read the Product info.
Ahh More SETI units!!
Is everything with ethernet suddenly a "web server" to /.? It's an ethernet transceiver with TCP/IP, not a frigging web server, OK?
Resistance is futile. Reactance buggers it up.
Most security-concious businesses do not active ports on their switches until both A) a request is put in by the right people and B) the MAC address on the machine at the other end has been verified. Modern managed switches can be easily configured to only talk to a single predetermined MAC address per port.
Granted there is still the possibility of MAC address spoofing, but this prevents most hurried "Dreamcast Planters". A much greater threat comes from open WAPs, weak firewall, and weak passwords.
Imagine how easy it would be to hide one of these on a corporate network? Backdoor to anything.
"Times may change, but standards must remain the same." - George Carlin.
Even install a web cam inside it.
At last! We'll finally solve the mystery of whether the little light stays on!
Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
There is your answer to, "What you say?!? Who would buy 10,000?" which everyone keeps asking.
That is not unlike expecting Fyffes to send you an individual banana direct to your home from South America.
http://www.sgi.com/products/remarketed/o2/
Factory automation has been involved with web enabling control processes for several years, albeit with less focus on web based goodies and more on the actual control of distributed peripherals.
In the good old days control of an Auto plant, chemical plant, anything at all that required PLC (programmable logic controllers), all of the i/o was driven by units that attached directly to the PLC-CPU unit. This was all very well but from there you then had to run power cables the tens of metres to whatever valves or motor you wanted to control, the routing of power cables is more strictly regulated that data cables.
Some bright spark came up with the idea that if you distributed the i/o placing it right beside the motor or whatever and ran a high speed communication link over data lines this would be eaiser to manage. Things got more interesting when you add the web to the equation, and some of the big guns toyed with the idea of serving java applets allowing centrally located controllers to download the applets that visualised and controlled the remote (anything from metres to 1000's of Kilometres) equipment and to control it from there.
The draw back to this is that if it is on the web then there is subject to attacked, by iraqi's or script kiddies.
--My sig is bigger than your sig--
This is the death of structured cabling companies.
http://ebgp.net/ccc/
Nuf said.
my toaster does not have a little computer with AtoD converters to keep track of the temperature or little electronic switches to control whether the toast pops up. It is all analog and mechanical.
Many newer models of toasters are electronically controlled, and have been for several years. These typically cost $45 and up. The average $15 Walmart special will still be the analog/mechanical type and will probably never be web-enabled at that price.
Sorry, but in this business "$30/piece" is *NOT* cheap.
...
Wake me up when they're selling them at $1 a piece in quantities of 10k, then we'll see a revolution
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
- The serial interface maxes out at 230 Kbps, not 300. In that way it would appear to be comparable to a 16650 class UART. But ...
- Who cares? For an industrial control application, a device requiring more than 230 Kbps to sample data is rare. As fot the ethernet, it's 10/100 autosensing. I would expect the 80186 CPU to be the bottleneck before the I/O.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Someone else said "I think the idea is that people who produce things like TVs, Refrigerators, water heaters etc... could easily intergrate these things into their products for a minimal cost."
Well, no. All big development firms can afford to design their own ethernet interfaces (with $5USD realtek ICs), as this product also needs a microcontroller/processor to send the data (it doesn't control anything, it is just a physical interface translator).
This device is made for hobbysts developing microcontroller projects.
Pity about the white/ grey packaging, though.
Dropping a bunch of bogus DHCP servers onto the end of any available cables and tucking them under desks.
Not that I'd ever *do* that.
Heh heh...
Cheers,
Jim
-- My Weblog.
According to the site it's $100 for the SDK KIT which makes that $30 module useful. The xPort is an all in one solution for $50.
$130 vs $50. SitePlayer is far more expensive and far less attractive as far as the packaging.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
Jellomizer's post is an "ovious lie" ;-)
In that case, would you have to give it a hystorectomy?? (sorry, i cant spell and am too lazy to dictionary.com)
//FIXME: Bad
Those X-10 modules you are thinking of (popups) are not the same ones that control light switches and power outlets.
Unless the fridge manufacturer already installs the webcam and digtal
temperatur sensor in the fridge, there is no point for him to install
the web-enabler at all.
These devices would be great for simplifying factory control systems. Consider a small refinery producing cooking oil, speciality lubricants, detergents, or other liquids. There are hundreds, if not thousands of valves, flow meters, temperature and pressure sensors, tank gauges, heating/cooling units, and so on. Aside from power, all these devices have at least a wire pair back to some central control position, often through some proprietary interface (sometimes several layers worth), usually a legacy from several factory refits back.
These devices would let you strip away all the legacy hardware to be replaced by a simple RS-232 interface to the RJ45 device, then CAT-5 and local network back to a software solution control system.
The upside: software replacement for hardware system, and generic interfaces throughout the factory!
Pacifist paratroopers yell, "Ghandi!" when they jump.
We are in the manufacturing business out here in China. Just as a benchmark: Toasters US$5.00 DVD Players are now available for US$50 (not progressive scan but with dual decoders, DTS, 5.1 etc) Coffee Makers US$9.00 (for programmable, electronic) There is simply now way to justify US$33. That doesnt mean 'an extra $33 to web enable your xxxx, but more along the lines of $100, at thats at Walmart margins. A non starter. Bluetooth modules come cheaper & hence will be the first stop, with a web enabled controller of some kind a la Band & Olufsen.
From a LAN-enabled VCR I'd expect far more than just a dumb
web interface to program it. I'd expect playback of digital
movies (AVI) from LAN hosted storage, et al. A dumb web
server is a toy that drives up cost, but (probably) not sales.
The stuff that's really worth the effort, requires more power
than an 80186 in an RJ45 jack.
- System software upgrades via the Internet
- performance notification via e-mail alerts
Oh, joy. A DDoS robot and spam exploder on every appliance.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
According to their website here: http://www.lantronix.com/news/pr/2003/02-24-xport. html they are available in single unit quantities for $49.00.
Typical - someone fits an entire web server into the space of an RJ45 socket, including socket space, and the top ten posts go on about what a waste of time it is! Personally, I think its great, and although I wouldn't expect toasters with this thing any time soon, it would be ideal for wiring factory equipment and such like with remote diagnostics (I get the impression this is the market they are aiming for). I think it would be massively improved if they could fit a wifi interface into the space wasted by the RJ45 socket, though. Then it might have realistic household applications.
Their development methodology is out to lunch though!
If I seem short sighted, it is because I stand on the shoulders of midgets
Not so fast....naysayers in 1985 could have said about the VCR: "At $900 each, I don't see these things in eveyrone's home". Now they're less than 1/10 that price, and every home has at least one. Besides that, $900 in 1985 dollars was a friggin huge purchase. I'm too lazy to find out what they would be in 2003 dollars.
Being the System Administrator at work, and being responsible for machines all over the building, I really appreciate that fact that most newer printers and fax machines have a built in web server that allows me to quickly look at the status of the machine when someone calls to say they can't print.
A quick look will tell me right away if the machine has paper or if there is an error on the touch screen. Then I know if I should start there or farther up stream. (ie. print servers/queues). This ends up saving me a lot of time and the users think I am great because I can talk them through simple things. (most users like to feel like they were part of the solution)
Trying to do the same by having the user read off the error messages to me can take three times as long.
I can see a time in the future when I call GE to complain that my new refrigerator has a problem and the tech tells me to go to my PC put in my fidges URL, click on the download error log button and email it to him.
After looking at the log he would then talk me through changing a couple of settings to account for humidity, how often it needs to defrost, etc.
Every wrong attempt discarded is a step forward - T. Edison
Forget the spy device - the only way I'm ever going to have that mythical web-enabled toaster is if they add a wireless interface to it.
Let's just be sure everyone understands: I'm not pulling CAT-5 to my toaster.
Once more, to make sure we're all in agreement: wireless.
Thank you.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
How about eatable RFID embedded in food, someone ?
Sweet! I could scan my family to see who ate the last orange!
Viv
Gmail invites for ip
What are you net enabling? The network? Wait, shouldn't a network already be "net enabled"?
Okay, back to reading this week's spam article, can't go a week without one of those, eh?
scott
Siteplayer Development Kit (SDK), $100?
VB controls?
It looks awfully M$ and not very honest. It's not a $30 does everything toy, it's a $100 develpment kit that might require a $250 OS and periodic "upgrades". Then again, maybe not. They might provide full documentation and standard interfaces. It's nice of them to sell singles but the M$ leanings hurt their credibility.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
The GoAhead WebServer is a free, embedded webserver which runs in about 200KB. It supports ASP, SSL, and a bunch of other things.
When you connect this to your car's serial output it will have an RJ45 plug. If you hook that plug to your home network, you could talk to your car. Of course, the car manufacturer would have to do all this because they generally won't tell anyone how to talk to their onboard computers.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
So does it do IPv6?
Or are they going to kludge some VPN "solution" into the stack, to make this thing work in a large scale environment?
- Hubert
El cheapo web-cams have been around forever. So someone got the brainwave to sell them in bulk minus lens and optics? Okay, that's caustic. But what the heck...how dated is this...
I've used Lonworks, my experience is that it is very expensive to program and install. I wrote our own tools to get around the cost and limitations of the LonWorks tools. I know about powerline carrier, ask the guys at CoActive what they think about using this in the home. And you still need a LonWorks gateway to communicate to the internet.
I'm thinking that Bluetooth will be the new home automation standard. meets your $5 standard. Still need a gateway.
... about the potential for one of these things to be hidden on your network and collecting/trasmitting data? Am I being paranoid or is that a potential privacy problem?
[echelon.com] where the technology is already imbedded in millions of consumer devices
Why? So the government can spy on everything we transmit over the Internet?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Now if we can just get an implementation of the Hyper Text Coffee Pot Control Protocol (HTCPCP/1.0)...
While a web server is cool, and ideal for human interaction, it seems to me that the most promising application for this technology is on the assembly line. In this application, a passive technology (a daemon waiting for someone to connect) is not ideal.
Why not implement an snmp daemon, this way the device can through traps you tell you when the "capper" is jammed, or when the fridges temp goes below a threshold. SNMP Mibs can allow for the same passive access that HTTP allows, though there would need to be a client involved.
FizzyD
For a lot of things this is an extremely low price. If you have a large piece of machinery that cost thousands of dollars, thirty three bucks is nothing. This company also sells (or at least used to sell) big boxes that do the same thing, and they sold a lot of them for a lot more than thirty bucks.
I can see these being used in cars for diagnostics, as opposed to the propritary interfaces now used. One of these and a wifi would allow car service places to check out your car without you having to actually come into the dealership. Just start up the car and let us have a look at all its parameters over the web. The car could even tell them when something's going wrong or when routine service is coming due. They could also be used this way as/in a form of imbedded theft control device for the vehicle.
Art & Logic has a free embedded web server. Also check out GoAhead WebServer.
Small web servers are old news. Art & Logic has been creating embedded web applications since 1996. Typically, embedded web servers are used for something called web-based device management. Companies do this as an alternative to CLI or Windows/Java applications. All the usual advantages to web-based management apply, including ease of development, deployment, support, etc.
This story has a lot of cool factor, but other companies (Ubicom, for example) sell web-enabled chips for less money (last time I checked). If you're talking about consumer devices (such as a toaster, fridge, etc), it's all about cost per unit.
If you're building a more expensive product, you might have room for an RTOS (real-time operating system) and a software-based webserver to run on top of it, such as the GoAhead WebServer or the Device Management Framework.
These will be huge in medical equipment if they're proven reliable. Imagine being able to monitor patients at home 24/7 over the web, or using these in hospitals for real time monitor and capture of medical monitors'data (EKG's etc.) over the Hospital LAN. Doctors could even use these to check up on patients from home without having to bother the nurses on duty. And in terms of having one in your refrigerator, though you might not need/want one there, a supermarket chain or restaurant might! Why do you think that so many are stafffed 24 hours? To keep an eye on the refrigeration equipment. I can also see these being used in process control devices, automation, and remote control units.
Imagine a beowulf cluster of these things!
This sig no verb.
Once you plug it into your switch, though, it's hard to get out unless you have really long fingernails.
Actually, couldn't they just have a webserver on board, and cache several sites
Continental Airlines does this today with the help of Verizon. Verizon pushes content a la BackWeb to the airplane via satellite. You with your laptop will jack into the armrest phone and attempt to dial *any* phone number. The on-board server captures your phone call and keeps you in the on-board server. They say you can do AIM and pop3, but no web surfing or SMTP yet. Web content is updated every 15 minutes. (Can you pipe a proxy server over AIM if you own the far end? Slow, I know, but hey.)
I just flew from Glasgow to Newark, NJ in business class and had a LONG time to read the card advertising the service. $5.99USD covers the cost for the entire flight.
Intelligent Life on Earth
Like I said...
:)
Ask and it shall be given to you
So it's not Windows.
Ba-da-bing. Thank you, you're a great audience. I'll be here all week.
--Pat / zippy@cs.brandeis.edu
Eureka marketing moment! You can call it a refrigerouter! :-P
Carpe Cerevisi - Seize the Beer
If they can slap a webserver into such a small device, why not just slap ircop or some other small footprint firewall and hook it up with a pass through on the back end so you can hook another system behind it. Then, you can just slap that baby in and now each time you plug in your computer into the network, just slap that baby in the front of your RJ45 and whala, instant firewall for you and just do NAT for you. Now that would be really sweet.
I rather like these: a SIM-sized micro-controller running Java (hence capable of acting as a Web server). There is an ethernet pinout, but the easiest way to play with them^W^W^Wprototype is to put them on a daughterboard. You can telnet into them and download code by FTP. The bare microcontroller costs £40 ($50) for the 512kb version.
If someone can smuggle themselves into your building, install a piece of hardware onto your network, and smuggle themselves out, then back in and out again to remove the device, why not just install a keylogger onto the back of someone's keyboard and get admin priviledges?
Well, in the real world, you never have complete control over a large facility. There are janitors, building engineers, contractors, etc. which all have physical access to sensitive areas. If you have enough tools at your disposal, all of which are difficult to detect, it is trivial to attack network security.
Generally speaking, though, I would be more worried about someone with an iPAQ than this "jack". Combining the two though could be interesting...
http server $33
webcam $25
802.11 adaptor $64
and yet a wireless network camera is $329! Yes I am oversimplifying, but you get my point - What is going on?
So who will port embedded Linux to that thingy? ;)
Also think about the possibilities of such a device.
Plug it into a corporate network as a "bug". Record
data and have it send the data to an external site.
It's the ultimate spy gear.
--- Eat my sig.
Then you want the devices to send IP packets over their power plugs, and have a single device that sits on the 'power network' that has an RJ-45 and gateways packets between the 'power network' and ethernet. Like I really want an RJ-45 cable running from my blender to the wall, along with the power cable. It might be ok with things like the fridge or the washing machine, but an extra cable for things like a toaster, blender, or lamp would just kill the idea.
Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
just wait til they replace the webserver with a packet sniffer instead...
Sorry, it's just not.
At $30/pop, yes, handy for things that cost $600+ that might want ethernet (it's still 5%, so up that even more until it's 2-3%).
It's a serial-> ethernet device. For $30/port, serial is cheaper.
Want to monitor a fridge? There are a billion devices that can read temp over serial devices.
Wanna do a hole house? Scatter around some microcontrollers.
PIC and many others make chips that have serial, talk a little programming and have things like digital IO or 12 A/Ds.
Put one in each room - they fit in an outlet box with room to spare.
Wire up sensors:
- one reads light levels (along with time of day and other sensors, central computing can decide that the light is on, or it's just sunny).
- some for TEMP (LM34/LM35's are the expensive option, but easy)
-- one in the fridge, one at waist level for the room, one outside
- humidity
Digital IO can:- tell you if outlets are on with decent circuit work
- tell if an (internal, see below) door is open or changes state
- tell you if someone steps on the carpet (in the bathroom at 7AM so it knows to turn the coffee on).
- control smart sockets (X10 is barely smart).
- read a simple button push, unlock an internal door (below), can read the chip in your neck to see that you are now in the room (you know about the chip, right
:), whatever.
(It's a bad plan for burlar alarm functions, you want those run separately)The Controller is "taught" what type of sensor is on each input, it reads the values, actions may have it talk (96kb is more than fast enough) down a CAT3 or 5 to the central computer. This wire may also power it.
Perhaps a temp threshold (high/low/change rate) triggers a report.
Perhaps it just reports every N seconds (N=120 is still lots of useless data)
Perhaps it also has OUTPUT. But it has little intelligence.
Central computing can also "read" the burglar alarm and know that you just entered (it was your code), it's dark out and cold, it's dinner time, so it can turn on a couple lights, spit a message to your (serial) LCD in the hall with messages (your girlf is leaving you cause you leave the seat up and work on your computer too much and why the hell can't she turn on the damn lights like a normal person!).
Central computer gets ethernet. Runs with no disk (flash boot), doesn't do much else. It can talk to a Real Computer that has the MP3s, etc.
Central computer might just be a general MicroController, but it's taking 20 different serial connections in (232? or I2O or shared RS232 with a protocol (Device A: Read Sensor B @ value 116 becomes ASCII "AB00000116". or something). ASCII makes life easier, packets longer).
For $30, I can get the PIC chip ($55 with basic to program it) and run 4 conducter alarm wire along a room (push it into drywall, spackle).
For $30 at Q10,000, I want bluetooth or 802.11{a,b,g,i} and IPv6 and IPSec.
Want all the serials to be ethernet instead and go into a 16 port hub? HUB: $100, 6x$30 for these: adds $280 plus development (at 10k rates).
For the CAT5, I might as well stick with the serial. Let one machine agreggate the data and offer it over the network.
How exactly does this device interface with some appliance. I understand that it is a small webserver, but how does it interface with an appliance?
TOASTER: Howdy doodly do! How's it going? I'm Talkie -- Talkie Toaster, your chirpy breakfast companion. Talkie's the name, toasting's the game. Anyone like any toast?
LISTER: Look, I don't want any toast, and he (indicating KRYTEN) doesn't want any toast. In fact, no one around here wants any toast. Not now, not ever. NO TOAST.
TOASTER: How 'bout a muffin?
LISTER: OR muffins! OR muffins! We don't LIKE muffins 'round here! We want no muffins, no toast, no teacakes, no buns, baps, baguettes or bagels, no croissants, no crumpets, no pancakes, no potato cakes and no hot-cross buns! And DEFINITELY. NO. SMEGGIN'. FLAPJACKS!
TOASTER: Aah, so you're a waffle man!
LISTER: (to KRYTEN) See? You see what he's like? He winds me up, man. There's no reasoning with him.
KRYTEN: If you'll allow me, Sir, as one mechanical to another. He'll understand me. (Addressing the TOASTER as one would address an errant child) Now. Now, you listen here. You will not offer ANY grilled bread products to ANY member of the crew. If you do, you will be on the receiving end of a very large polo mallet.
TOASTER: Can I ask just one question?
KRYTEN: Of course.
TOASTER: Would anyone like any toast?
KRYTEN: Didn't you HEAR what I just said?
TOASTER: Yes, but I thought you might have changed your mind in the meantime.
LISTER: You see? You see what he's like?
KRYTEN: (Exasperated) We haven't changed our mind!
LISTER: NO TOAST!
TOASTER: But I am a toaster. It is my raison d'etre. I toast, therefore I am. If you don't want any toast, why did you repair me?
LISTER: Yeah, why did you repair him?
KRYTEN: He's a guinea pig for a technique called "Intelligence Compression." His AI chips were very badly damaged in the accident.
TOASTER: But that was no accident! That was first-degree toastercide!
LISTER: Just shut your grill!
HAAHAAHAHAHA that is so great!
I'll never be able to run a decent pr0n site out of my toaster with that!
Yeah, then the problem is that the manufacturers are AFRAID to add the interface because it'd be used for content transfer.
If I had ethernet on every home entertainment component, it would be great. And I'd pay $100 more each.
Man, let's get off the security tip and discuss some interesting applications of this.
What draws geeks to virii, network security, etc - like a siren call?
I'm thinking of putting one in my car - have it run my stereo. That'd be sweet.
Keep your packets off my GNU/Girlfriend!
Most fruit and veggies I buy already have those little stickers on them. It would just be a matter of making a sticky RFID tag that was cheap enough to stick on every piece of fruit, and of course having the infrastructure to track them both during the distribution process, and optionally at home using your RFID-enabled fridge, pantry, banana hook, etc.
Ethernet is great and all, but, there is that issue with the cables all over the place.
Ok, you can hide them inside of the wall, but, what if you want to move your VCR (or whatever) where there is no network outlet).
Once it's wireless, then we'd be talking about revolution (What about X10?)...
Esta es una firma en Espanol.
I briefly lead the software development effort for this chip at Lantronix, the heart of their XPort product. It's just a 186 with a bunch of I/O modules grafted onto it. Problem is, there's no place for a 16-bit chip in the embedded market right now. The thing costs $20-$25 and barely outperforms a $5-$10 8-bit CPU, whereas you can buy a 32-bit RISC powerhouse like the AMD Alchemy for the same price. Lantronix just got stuck with a bunch of bad technology, and it's trying to unload it with an overpiced product.
I wonder how small a combination of this, a router, and a wireless node could be.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Dude, is that a Beowulf cluster of webservers in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
Cyde Weys Musings - Scrutinizing the inscrutable
now a HOWTO on that would be interesting
Here's how we do it:
we use Cisco Catalysts all over the place and maintain a central VMPS database of which MAC addresses are allowed to get a network connection. See http://vmps.sourceforge.net/ for more info.
So if someone plugs some networking device into a wall, it's gonna be as good as unplugged until someone inspects it and enters it into the vmps database. I think the additional work caused by this is well worth the additional security you get by implementing it.
Keep in mind that these little buggers are not going to stay at $33 ea for long. As with all new thingies, the manufacturing costs and thus the price will drop as production ramps up and economies of scale take over.
Those X-10 modules you are thinking of (popups) are not the same ones that control light switches and power outlets
Ummm... Yes they are. Same company, different product line. Now if they would just make a product that doesn't turn on the bedroom light 20 seconds after I turn it off....
Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
it's target audience?
or did everyone completely miss the point of this device?
So wait, I'm driving down the road. I see a tollway coming up. I take a turn to avoid it, because I don't want to go there anyway. The car doesn't respond to the wheel. It continues down the hallway.
:)
Kaching!
That's how to make money from wifi-enabled cars
You don't use this thing for serving any old webpage, it goes in a device to allow you to communicate with that device through the LAN.
-It needs to be soldered into a device. Therefore, you would design the device to provide the required 3.3V on the appropriate pin.
I wish they had put these in the PLC's at work. Just connect the CAT5 and it is networked.
i just read this reply and i nearly choked on my chicken. that doesn't sound right - not 'nearly choked my chicken' but almost swallowed. my chicken, that is. as in DINNER. like nearly choked on my chicken. not like a girlfriend would, but different, like you might gag on pork. i laughed with a mouthful of food, that's what i'm saying. just forget it.
Where's Robin Hood? We could kinda really use him now.
Just hoping i wont need to put a firewall to protect my breakfast. Well at least, i will be able to blame someone else...
But for now i think my toaster is haunted..
in this context 'net-enabled' doesn't mean you can surf the net on it.
That's exactly the kind of application these things are intended for, while such a gizmo may be of no use to you, think about the possibilities for the poor mechanic who has to test and (if need be) service your car every time you take it back to the dealership. Consider the production line, where every car has to be thoroughly tested before it leaves to be sold. This is (comparitively) cheap method of getting all of that data out of your cars onboard computer and into a far more sophisticated computer that is able to analyse that data and present it to the engineer in a far more usable, or friendly, form.
... which can only mean that your shit is traceable. Install an RFID scanner on every toilet, and I can paint a decent picture of where you have been.
Dog is my co-pilot.
Far worse than a small webserver, check this out:
Imagine a small night light that has an 802.11 card in it. Anyone that sees it would think of it as nothing more than a light. But inside is an entire circutry that enables it to get into wireless networks and try to get out to send feedback to it's master.
On a lighter note, consider these as being used as network relay/extenders. Put one in each room of your house to increase the range and clarity of the network.
As for ethernet ports, many are located near power outlets, and much of the time are under desks. Just go under someone's desk, plug in to the ethernet port and a power outlet and you'r done. I really don't think that anyone could notice.
Why are we even talking about this, though?
http://pixelcort.com/
as the videos they usually show?
And I'd be really happy if they supplied free access when your plane gets delayed or cancelled. The last trip I tried to make cost me about 8 hours in delays and a missed meeting. VirginBlue was so much better before it tried to absorb Ansett.
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
Hook this into the artificial hippocampus mentioned in another /. article.
Forget the video blog, you can invite the rest of the world into your brain! Shades of Herman's Head!
Terrycloth Lobster