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Kazaa Sues Record Labels
dannyp writes "CNN is reporting that Kazaa is suing the record companies, claiming that they used an illegal client to log in to the P2P network - an interesting twist." The lawsuit also claims "...efforts to combat piracy on Kazaa violated terms for using the network."
I wish I was a lawyer, not an engineer...
I am the Great Bear. Mother Russia owns you. Respect it! Kazaa sucks. Steal your music the old fashioned way - by recording your farts.
That's right, smell them!
Version 1.0 / M
America, eh folks? It's a pretty screwed up place. Unfortunately, but not indefinitely, the USA's weapons of mass destruction make it the most powerful country in the world (militarily). As a result, it helps to be aware of American society and fit into it, and our quick 8-step guide should have you on the path to burger-munching enlightenment.
1 - Buy yourself a gun
To become a fully-fledged Yank, you'll need to get a weapon. Americans think that having more killing machines magically makes their country safer, and it helps them to walk around saying "I'll put a cap in your ass". Even though the concept of "no guns = no gun-related crimes" is alien to the average Yank, it'll give you a false sense of security in this country with the highest crime rates in the developed world.
2 - Put on at least 25 stone
Skinny? Medium? Chubby? That won't cut it in the good ol' US of A. Because America has the highest obesty levels on the planet, you'll need to get those rolls of flab built up. Eating 18 waffles with Maple syrup for breakfast (and visiting Burger King five times in a day) is all natural when much of the world is suffering massive poverty. Get fat and fit in.
3 - Learn the lingo
We've talked about issues affecting society, but on a personal level you'll need more knowledge (or ignorance as it may be) to fit in. First, forget proper English. Confuse "your" with "you're". Say "must of" instead of "must have". Whenever anything interesting occurs, say "shucks" repeatedly. Instead of clever spontaneity or witty insults, call people "asswipes". It's funny!
4 - Throw away all maps, history books etc.
To really feel a part of American society, you must lose all knowledge of the world. Forget where Poland is. Scrap your knowledge of the lengthy Chinese history. Make cretinous remarks like "India? Is that in Africa?". Because ALL that matters is America, and it doesn't matter how pathetic you look to educated people the world over.
5 - Become totally irrational and nonsensical
Spout on about the Constitution, and then make drastic changes to it. Talk about "freedom of speech" and watch TV programmes about the Ku Klux Klan. Rant on about market freedom, and sit back as companies run riot and destroy the economy with their anti-competitive practices. Essentially, act idiotic at all times.
6 - Sue everyone you ever meet
The USA doesn't produce many decent quality products, so the society is crumbling into a litigation-happy joke. With so many jobs going overseas to talented workers, your only option left is to start legal proceedings. About anything. Someone step on your toe? Get some hotshot downtown lawyer to sue their ass!
7 - Get a "shrink"
Americans have a hard time dealing with their own problems in a mature manner, and prefer to spend hundreds of dollars sitting in front of someone and whinging. However trivial your problems may be, blast them out like a baby!
8 - Watch abysmal TV
Forget educational programmes and incisive documentaries. Your ideal night in is with your gun, six cheeseburgers and a Friends box set. Watch as some over-paid talentless "actor" enters the scene, and whoop and scream hysterically as he delivers some ridiculously poor wisecrack.
So there you have it! Those 8 steps should have you killing innocent people, piling on pounds and acting like a moron in no time. America awaits you, brave hero! Just get out before it collapses in disarray.
END
By fark.
You guys may as well give up.
RIAA getting what they deserve
I'm glad there's some legal action going the other way for once.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
This is probably a futile move. But yet I can't stop grinning thinking about someone standing up to those people for once. DirecTV being sued as well.....I think perhaps people are tired of being pushed around. That and Kazza stands to lose money.
must... resist... urge... to ... post.... cliches!
resisting.... what goes... around... comes around... aaaah... pot... kettle... black... force is stronger... glass houses... AAAAH.
heh
Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
How is it legal for record companies to obtain information on users from the ISP? Are there no privacy laws regarding ISPs? Just curious...
Are you telling me that you don't see the connection between government and laughing at people? - Interviewer
Kazaa sues the record companies! Oh wait.
What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the goose steppers.
But the RIAA have no such powers... Oh except the ones where they can buy really expensive lawyers and win the case anyway. Yeah, those are handy.
bought time.
My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...
if they promise not make any more CDs
New year Resolution: Don't change sig this year
Kazaa recently withdrew their suit after they realized they were suing a 60 year old woman with an iMac. This follows the current trend of trying to give a random old lady a heart attack.
... that Kazaa started fighting back. I knew those tactics that the RIAA was using (clients that messed up the network, clients that introducted viruses, etc) were on the border of legality - I had almost forgotten that Kazaa (unlike gnutella) is a privately owned network... or protocol... or something. Kudos to Kazaa... now if they only got rid of their spyware...
SCO lawsuit bad, Kazaa lawsuit good, right? You bunch of hypocrite swine, you fat greasy linux zealots make me SICK!
I have always felt that a P2P network could protect itself by requiring in a license to use said network that no users will use the service to collect IP addresses. In that case they could go after the RIAA for either theft of network services or even DMCA abuse for using an illegal client.
This would not protect network users if law enforcement were to request valid subpoenas for the job, but it would stop non-law enforcement bodies like the RIAA from doing what they are doing now.
This is using our enemies methods against them, which makes it sweet.
Does this mean the RIAA will have to delete Kazaa Lite and sign an agreement stating they will never ever ever install or use kazaa lite again?
The lawsuit also claims "...efforts to combat piracy on Kazaa violated terms for using the network."
This is kinda like claiming improper search and seizure for drug cases. I wonder if there is precedent in electronic law.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
...how to brush our teeth, bathe, and use deodorant, you stinky, snaggle-toothed uglies. And maybe we're fat because our food doesn't taste like shit. British cuisine is an oxymoron.
hehehe, reminds me of an old joke:
What is the difference between simoniker and the Kazaa:
Nothing! They're both anal pirates!
Damn straight. I figured this would happen because there's got to be some way the RIAA is breaking the "DMCA" extracting more data than they should via the client software. They are hacking, and whether they suck at it or not, you can be sure they are breaking the law daily...now we just need someone to grab a memo or something proving it.
This could be used as a prescedent which could be used to nullify any outstanding lawsuits filed by the RIAA, and the already ruled ones, well the defendent could file a suit against the RIAA.
Does KaZaA really have the financial resources to launch a successful legal attack on the RIAA? I mean, the media conglomerates are rolling in dough. I've never really understood KaZaA's business model and find it hard to believe that they stand a chance. Regardless of merit, the RIAA have got to have some killer lawyers.
Much as I'd like to see KaZaA fight back, I just don't see this being a fair fight. I suspect KaZaA will withdraw their legal challenge pretty soon.
GMD
watch this
I want in on the action! Who can I sue!?
Look it's a joke about my sig IN MY SIG! LOL!
The article seems to imply that this came as a complete surprise to the RIAA. Talk about an organization that can dish it out, but not take it. They were (allegedly) using unlicensed software. Oh jeez, I'm shocked!
Then again, its kinda like those "stupid news" stories about the burgler sueing the owners of the house he broke into, because the stairs weren't up to code, causing him to trip and break an arm.
Children in the backseats don't cause accidents. Accidents in the back seats cause children.
...AOL sued *you* for accessing their network with Gaim.
A: Because Jared from Subway used to be a fat shit but isn't anymore and he did it by eating nothing but Subway subs. The fat Star Wars kid is still fat.
If using Kazaa Lite on their network is illegal, I'm sure anybody using mlDonkey/giFT to connect to Kazaa could be in trouble, hypothetically.
The Recording Industry Association of America called Sharman's "newfound admiration for the importance of copyright law" ironic and "self-serving."
I must have missunderstood the purpose of copyright, if it isn't self-serving, what is it for?
Pounce!
i wonder if previous settlements can be overturned if it's proven that RIAA used illegal means to track offenders. after all, incriminating evidence is regularly thrown out of the criminal courts if it was obtained by unlawful search and seizure, through illegal wire taps, botched confessions, etc.
Kazaa suing the mpaa/riaa for reverse engineering... ha!
although this is incredibly amusing to see them fight back, one has to wonder what they will actually acheive in the long run - other than dragging out future litigation against other Kazaa users.
Will Sharman invoke the DMCA on Kazaa Lite? Will this come down to a pissing match between other clients that can access the FastTrack network? I have a mac which runs ML Donkey. If I chose to, I could enable FastTrack searches and downloads.
The reason girls and Windows users don't understand UNIX is because all the documentation is in Man files.
Who cares about that retarded site reporting this first?
"
Besides, I can sum up all the "insightful" "comments" they will make:
"BOOBIES!!1111LOL!!"
"RIIA is t3h ev4l!!11!!!"
"WE WANT B00BIES!"
"Yeah, a company that profits from piracy is sitcking it to the man!"
"B00BIES!"
"W0000t111!!!11 W3 r t3h l336!!!111"
"MORE B00BIES!"
"FLAP flap FLAP flap FLAP flap FLAP flap"
"Boooo00000000000ooooooooooo000000000BIES!
They should encrypt the Kazaa network and sue the RIAA for DMCA violations...
...about the goose and the gander, there, Batman.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
I think that Kazaa will lose. But could this be a rare win-win situation for most people?
If Kazaa wins, the RIAA gets screwed. If Kazaa loses, it harms ridiculous "click here to agree" buttons and it hurts the DMCA?
This is a good thing, but Kazaa people might not see it that way.
Why do I have this? I don't smoke.
...how long until they demand Google pull all R**A links?
If you actually read the KazaaLite license agreement, it specifically states that using the product is illegal (I would install just so I could get the exact wording but I'm at work and would rather not lose my job). I guess the RIAA neglected to read it before installing... Haha!
I swear to God it's like 1984-esque Newspeak. Think one thing. OK, now think the other.
Kazaa sues Google because of Kazaa Lite! Kazaa evil!
Kazaa sues recording industry because they improperly accessed the network! Kazaa good!
Somebody please give me a chart or visual reference for when Kazaa is bad and when the RIAA is bad.
(Alternatively, it's fun to see two evil corporations duking it out, because either way a badguy's going to lose. But that's just my inner optimist.)
We recently had heard in the office over one of the Yellow Machine that's made by Anthology Solutions.
Kazaa should just shut the hell up and count it's blessings. The only thing Kazaa needs to worry about is not being shut down because of all the illegal activity and continue pushing it's case that it's got excellent legal uses as well.
Suing the record labels for not letting people get away with illegal activities involving the RIAA's property is just idiotic.
What the RIAA is doing with their specialized client is nothing that can't be done with the "official" client. The RIAA just has it easier with their custom software. And we all know about Kazaa Lite and I don't see them bitching about that.
With MSN and AIM et all, using a third party client is stealing resources from MS and/or AOL et al. Using a third party client with Kazaa doesn't affect them in the least.
But then, what else would you expect from a team who's only claim to skill is putting ad and spyware on a gnutella client?
Maybe Gnutella should sue Kazaa off their network. Kazaa is only hurting P2P with this kind of idiocy.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
If Kazaa wins the lawsuit against the RIAA, will that dismiss the 260+ lawsuits the RIAA brought up against Kazaa users?
-- pX
That I never got....I mean, what the fuck is a gander anyway?
The Recording Industry Association of America called Sharman's "newfound admiration for the importance of copyright law" ironic and "self-serving."
And to that Kazaa replied that the RIAA's newfound disrespect for the legal system ironic and self-serving.
-Sean
Fark is for faggots and twelve year olds.
DIE, FAGGOT!
Let's see if money *really* _is_ above the law, as many of us surely would have the impression of, for some incomprehensible reason (the media?)..
Uhh, they violated the terms of Service, doesn't sound so much like copyright violation. Of course, I do believe the RIAA would be so stupid as to try and play it that way. But that's what they need...they wanna harp on their one law sending out supoenas to everyone, lets start calling them for every tiny little law they break and bury them in paper.
Kazaa is suing the record companies, claiming that they used an illegal client to log in to the P2P network
And yet Sharman hasn't publically jousted Kazaa Lite? I'm not complaining, but this seems to be a directly targeted statement on behalf of the P2P community "we are not afraid"... The bully called the RIAA may become the bullied... It seems that the smart geek in school named P2P is tired of being beaten up (Napster) and has taken Ku/\/9 F00 lessons...
Business \Busi"ness\, n.;
A scam in which all people involved perceive as beneficial...
I don't care if they have to reindex all of reality, I'm sick of these clitches.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
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Be a failure under bylaws regarding
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In addition, ye have been known to perpetrate
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in the past, such as those known as the TrollKore
will be vanquished by the armies of righteous
heterosexuality. So it is written, so it shall
be done.
Kazaa will be offering an amnesty to the RIAA provided they send in a notorized confession and promise never to monitor the Kazaa network again!
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
man I'd love to wake up one morning to discover both of them blew up in a puff of legal arguments...
No RIAA means no more BS from the record industry.
No Kazaa means my network will be FREE OF CRAP (well except for Windows worms and stuff).
Here's hopin'.
The Verizon case found that the RIAA has the right to get the identities of users who they allege are violating copyright laws by sharing copyrighted music.
... and if the RIAA didn't have more lawyers than quality musicians, the person could do the country a world of good by suing the RIAA.
This finding is still being appealed by Verizon, and Congress is discussing whether this should be allowed to continue. Where the RIAA should get in trouble is with the recent subponea issued for the wrong person. They essentially deprived this person of their right to privacy by wrongfully requesting that the person's ISP reveal their identity. This was in clear violation of their rights
I noticed in an earlier article that the EFF was working with a few of the people that the RIAA was suing. CNN doesn't mention anything about the EFF working with Sharman Networks Ltd. Now IANAL, more of a law & order watcher;) But wouldn't it make sense for the EFF to work with a company that, even though might not be doing so well, still has more resources with which to fight?
Or maybe the EFF doesn't see merit to the case?
Chaos is Divine *
...Service if you are a copyright holder of infringing works traded with our Product or Service, if you are a law enforcement officer active in a jurisdiction which recognizes this copyright, or if your use of our Product or Service will otherwise lead to charges of infringement against any of our Users.
If you do not agree to these terms then you must immediately terminate use of our Service and must destroy all copies of our Product or face prosecution to the fullest extent of the law.
Do you agree to these terms? Yes[ ] No [ ]
.sig Realistic fines for copyright in
"I have always felt that a P2P network could protect itself by requiring in a license to use said network blah blah."
Warez sites with such a "license" don't exempt themselves from prosecution. It's just some idiotic ploy someone thought up long ago.
The RIAA doesn't need a search warrent to get information that is publically available. People are putting their illegal goods up for anyone to see and you can't selectivly choose who sees it just to avoid prosecution.
"I may or may not be committing a crime but you can't look just in case I am if you can prosecute me for it" doesn't hold up in court.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
Kazza sues the RIAA!
DMCA.
'nuf said.
MadCow.
I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
Why not just route streams through several hosts, so the IP address you are connected to is not the one actually hosting the music, only a router which would be protected under law as a common carrier. Or just run your P2P network on top of mixmaster or something simular.
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
that in a few years, when you turn 12, Fark will be just the thing for you. Now run along, your momma's calling you. (She dresses you funny, too.)
You mean Morpheus. They were based on the FastTrack network and then changed to Gnutella. Using Gnucleus, IIRC.
Kazaa OTOH still use the FastTrack network. This network runs over centralized servers, so a third party client could indeed be "stealing" their resources.
If Kazaa wins, could this mean that all "evidence" presented against people that they have been illegally sharing copyrighted music must be thrown out?
I cannot help but think of Frodo in Lorien as Galadriel twirled the ring of power in her hand and dreamt of being the great dark queen.
Yes, KaZaA with all its spyware and crap should be the great dark queen that rules the internet. Great dark queens are soooo much better than great dark lords. Once upon a time Bill Gates was the Smeagle like creature living on the bank of a great river. His friend Digital Research dove into the river and found a shiny ring...but it was Smeagle's birthday...
After seizing the ring of power. The world rooted the pc geeks against the mainframers.
Quite frankly, I see companies like KaZaA sliming in the rivers of the legal system for power are as disgusting as anything the music industry pipes out. Is is good to see a new generation cheering on one of the sleaziest companies to hit the market in its drive to become a new dark lord.
...is my friend?
.sig Realistic fines for copyright in
And it's about time!
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I'm rooting for Kazaa just like everyone else on this one, but seriously... this stands about as much chance as the old FTP servers I used to frequent that displayed a banner claiming "If you are a member of a government agency, including law enforcement, you must disconnect now."
----- sXe
"Kazaa will get you through times of no Clear Channel better than Clear Channel will get you through times of no Kazaa!"
(That's a reference to the 'Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers' series of underground comic books from the 1966 to 1972 era)
http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/ECPA2701_ 2712.htm
n d_ CSEA.htm
2701. Unlawful access to stored communications
(a) Offense.--Except as provided in subsection (c) of this section whoever--
(1) intentionally accesses without authorization a facility through which an electronic communication service is provided; or
(2) intentionally exceeds an authorization to access that facility;
and thereby obtains, alters, or prevents authorized access to a wire or electronic communication while it is in electronic storage in such system shall be punished as provided in subsection (b) of this section.
and the CYBER SECURITY ENHANCEMENT ACT OF 2002 can be used against them..
http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/homela
and the Patriot Act can used against them..
http://www.cybercrime.gov/PatriotAct.htm
Section 212 Emergency Disclosures by Communications Providers
Section 217 Intercepting the Communications of Computer Trespassers
so, by the way that the current computer laws are written, the RIAA could be prosecuted for Hacking under the "Terror Laws"..
the blade cuts BOTH ways..
i hate microsoft.
This "company" has been avoiding legal action. Maybe you mean is not afraid to dish it out, but sure as hell can't take it.
...does this actually "work", short of there being a subpoena or warrant?
.sig Realistic fines for copyright in
In this corner in the white shorts it's the D!M!C!A!
and in the very dark corner in the very dark bondage suit it's the D!M!C!A!(RIAA)
Lets get r-r-r-r-r-eady to r-r-r-umbleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Yes that's it. The US never oversteps our bounds and goes outside our jurisdiction at will to arrest who we want. What planet are you from?! The last ruling on P2P was that it's legal...so why would they be hiding? This is also their SECOND time in court
Because that is what the United States of America uses. Face it, the US is teh best country EVAR.
Are they using Kazaa Lite? Did they reverse engineer the protocol and used the FastTrack network illegally from an unauthorized client? Are they using an authorized client (Kazaa, iMesh, Grokster) and did they uninstall any bundled ad/spywares?
can't afford to rent politicians either to pass laws in their favor. Here in the good old USA we got the best government that money can buy. Problem is, the average citizen cannot afford much but the MegaCorps can.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
You sir are the exact reason why browsing at -1 is the best thing one can do. Almost pissed my pants for you absurd humor :)
my 2 cents
Anybody else see the story today about Kazaa's web phone service?t ory&cid=52 8&e=1&u=/ap/20030924/ap_on_hi_te/p2p_telephony
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s
If Kazaa loses, wouldn't this set precedent that stupid Software License Agreements are not enforceable?
-IOVAR Web Dev Platform
"... if you are a law enforcement officer active in a jurisdiction which recognizes this copyright..."
Oh come on/b:
"You may not open this obviously illegal packet of drugs if you are a law enforcement officer, being that this wax seal protects copyrighted work inside and serves as a protection mechanism."
They claimed that the RIAA was using Kazaa Lite K++, which they also claim is a unauthorized modified version of Kazaa. Still using Kazaa in any form is subject to EULA of Kazaa, and using their network is subject to their TOS. I guess they saw the subpoenas being issued as harassing, or a violation of privacy or something else.
Still many use Kazaa Lite K++ for file sharing, are they too in violation of the license agreement?
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Because in fact using somebody's network without permission is regarded as criminal tresspass! Kazaa should be filing supoena's to the RIAA to get the identities of the people who trespassed on their network (at the behest of the RIAA) so they can file criminal charges against them... and by the way, doesn't hiring somebody to break the law constitute racketeering? Does RICO apply here?
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
"I steal music, and so can you: www.kazza.com"
Thinking about it, that's probably for the best in the long term. In the short term, I'm using an unauthorized third-party client (Adium), so I hope they don't start suing people. But they own the network and should be able to do whatever they want with it. And I've been working on support for Jabber in Adium, which is a distributed protocol, so I won't have to put up with this kind of silliness.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The EULA is the weaker law. If you wrote a virus that destroyed computers you couldn't sue someone under the DMCA for reverse engineering it to see what it does in order to track down who wrote it and to keep it off of systems. Damaging other people's property over rules your "right" to privacy.
You cannot use a weak law to protect yourself from a higher law.
The higher law is the laws of copyright. The weak law is the EULA. And it's no secret that illegal MP3's and everything else are being traded on P2P.
The is suffienct 3rd party evidence that laws are being broken on P2P to warrent any legal body having a look-see. You don't have to use Kazaa to know what's going on with it.
This is why EULA's only hold up when a crime isn't being committed. A EULA will never hold up in a case where it's being used to hide a crime.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
In Soviet Russia, Kazaa sues the RI--
Ah, never mind, fuck it. Who wants a beer?
Karma: Excellent Birds (mostly as a result of listening to Laurie Anderson)
couldn't pirates use the DCMA as a measure to stop them getting tracked? Couldn't they say, encrypt their p2p software and make anyone using a fake client to find out users a criminal?
Maybe it's about time we showed how silly the DCMA is.
This case brought forth by Kazaa is interesting in that it involves a number of issues such as the enforceability of EULAs and weather or not the RIAA is in essence allowed to act as its own law enforcement unit.
The DMCA was signed into law October 28, 1998, while Clinton was President, AND Congress was Republican-controlled.
:)
Let's not pull the tiresome old Republican strategy of omitting facts which hurt our argument..remember we're all adults here
Great now il get sued by Kazaa for using Kazaa Lite, and the RIAA for copy-right theft and SunnComm for circumnavigation. Does anyone else want in? Come round to mine for super-hot coffee burns and violent video games!
(Good thing i dont live in America)
Disclaimer: This post is not a legal confession.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
But what about those of us up at North Point?
ISAF will bring Freedom and Justice soon enough.
mac.
The RIAA used to be a non-profit organization.
I found this out by looking on the back of an old record jacket.
Bort.
Free, Anonymous surfing: Pagewash.com.
Welcome to Slashdot.
Two words:
Adware
Spyware
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
KaZaA wanted to sue Google because it distributed (well, actually hyperlinked.. but that's what they intended in the legal complaint they filed) illegal copies of it's copyrighted property.
Even though the two cases are not instrumentally similiar, I think that's hypocrisy. After all isn't RIAA trying to defend it's own copyrighted property?
I have no doubt that RIAA probably asked Sharman to hand over it's traffic data or implement some system to monitor illegal file-sharing, and KaZaA promptly refused.
I'm not advocating RIAA's recent legal actions, but I don't like the smell of hypocrisy.
Hack your mind out of its sandbox.
If the RIAA is the one being directly issued subpoenas and executing the subpoenas, then are they not, in fact, and agent of the state and should be held accountable to the same standards?
[RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
i love a good fight, and i always root for tthe underdog.
now, if we can only get the Canadian goevrnment to produce some decent weed.
Back on IRC.
Quack, quack.
It is the same before the law if I enter you property, take your car to drive my pregnant soon-to-give-birth-to-my-son wife into the hospital, because every phone line from here to the next town is currently offline OR if i enter your property, take your car, speed along your lawn, driving over your dog, your cat, your kid to get a way from the police after a robbery?
If you break the law, the PURPOSE matters. Shooting a cop will yield more prison than shooting a crack nigger. Killing a fellow man will yield more prison if you're a crack nigger yourself.
But this doesn't really mean much. Kazaa's best argument is that the RIAA used illegal software with Kazaa lite. Maybe they could even win on that. That only helps the Kazaa company. The RIAA only needs to use Kazaa proper or raid other networks to continue precisely what they've been doing this whole time. Sorry, but it looks like Joe P2P doesn't stand to gain anything from this.
I doubt the courts will rule in Kazaa's favor. Imagine the precedent, provide a way for massive piracy and by means of a "Terms of Services" restrict the legal beneficiaries of the pirated material from having access to see what and who is pirating, and you very quickly our IP system will crumble.
Yeah yeah, I know, File sharing networks have legitimate uses, too. But 90% of them aren't being used "ligitimately".
Thanks,
Leabre
Just encrypt the network, even with something weak. Then set up an agreement that to join the network you must use the official client and put some legalese that would make it illegal to spy on other users and get personal info. Then when they want to get user info, they have to crack the network and BAM!, hit with the DMCA. If we have to live with this amazingly stupid law, we might as well use it as a weapon instead of letting people beat us with it.
OK, suppose this: The RIAA does a search and comes up that JoeBob1900 has some particular song on his computer, obtains a subpoena, and sends it along the legal pipeline. Supposing this person challenges this subpoena and eventually winds up in court, does the RIAA have any substantial evidence to support that he actually *does* have that song? It sounds to me like if they don't physically have a computer to show to the court, they've got nothing on him. For all they know, he could have simply had a file by whatever name they were looking for. Unless they've got an MD5SUM or something based on the actual contents of what they're looking for, do they really have much of a case? Just my .02
If a person is sharing files directly off their hard drive and they have a "read me" or "terms of service" file posted with the file collection, can a person legally specify the usage of their machine to protect their property and machine from similar RIAA abuses? I don't suppose one has to be an organization or business to establish a terms of service by which one must abide before using any services or information the machines has available. This is very curious. If there are any posters here at Slashdot with a better than passing understanding of how all this works, please share your insights about this. I love the irony that the same TOS shenanigans that so many companies use to fuck over their customers can also be employed to protect people from the RIAA.
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
RIAA got pwn3d. Hahahahahahahahhahaah!
So, from what i get the RIAA is violating the Kazaa EULA. If the RIAA wins and it is found that a EULA is unenforceable, wouldnt this be a good thing and be precedent for finding the EULA's by other company's unenforceable?
Except that you aren't free to modify the source to fit your needs.
It's supposed to be a *joke*. It is, isn't it?
I almost fell for it.
-- MarkusQ
It's obvious you never worked for a .com before :)
No, I'm New Here
Is it just me or is there too much litigation going on these days? It seems that no company can be sued without countersuing, and then a million think tanks have to write position papers on all this shit. When it comes down to it, people on both sides are exploiting weaknesses in our legal code. The only difference is we sympathize with Kazaa because they are 'on our side'. RIAA claims that we infringe on their copyrights by downloading music, and we do; Kazaa says the RIAA violates their network terms of use, and they do. Why can't they call it a draw and go home? ~UltraSkuzzi Will companies go back to innovating, instead of litigating?
~UltraSkuzzi
This comment is liscensed by SCO.
Rapists sue women for being hot and landing them in prison.
Are we now all hoping that EULAs are enforceable? Nonono! This is the exact opposite standpoint the Slashdot public claims to hold. Don't make a 180 on the principle just because it could serve you well here. Kazaa better lose this case or all our souls are belong to them after the next click-through license you see.
I just searched for "Kazza Lite" on Google, and no results were censored! Does anyone know what has changed?
After Ward's lawyer complained that Ward is a "computer neophyte" who never installed file-sharing software or downloaded any songs, the case was dropped in federal court in Boston on Friday.
Well, that is pretty stupid. THey must be mass mailing these things, knowing that everyone has mp3s. this one just happened to miss. Soon you will get mailing saying Pizza(TM) is on sale, and also you have been sued by the RIAA.
SAILING MISHAP
Kazaa clients should upload all files out in ROT13. Then say as part of the EULA that the user may not decrypt the files under penalty of DMCA-raping.
This way if the RIAA tries to get files, we can sue them under the DMCA.
But there is another kind of evil that we must fear most... and that is the indifference of good men.
In a few years when this is all over /. should compile the stories of p2p vs. riaa into a book. No author could write something so twisted and crazy as this.
-Tim Louden
Chapter 13.
THE WORLD'S FOREMOST PROBLEM
Anyone who essays to discuss the Jewish Question in the United States or anywhere else must be fully prepared to be regarded as "anti-Semite," a "Jew-baiter." Nor need encouragement be looked for from politicians, people or Press. The people who are awake to the subject at all prefer to wait and see how it all turns out. There is a vague feeling that to use the word "Jew" openly, or to expose it nakedly in print, is somehow improper. Polite evasions like "Hebrew" and "Semite" (both of which are-subject to the criticism of inaccuracy) are timidly assayed, and people pick their way gingerly as if the whole subject were forbidden, until some courageous thinker comes along with the word "Jew," and then the constraint is relieved and the air cleared.
The word "Jew" is not an epithet; it is a name, ancient and descriptive, with a significance for every period of human history, past, present and to come.
The chief difficulty in writing about the Jewish Question is the super-sensitiveness of Jews and non-Jews concerning the whole matter. There is probably not a newspaper in America, and certainly none of the advertising mediums which are called magazines, which would have the temerity even to breathe seriously the fact that such a Question exists. The Press in general is open to fulsome editorials in favor of everything Jewish, while the Jewish Press, which is numerous in the United States, takes care of the vituperative end.
The idea seems to be fixed in the Jew by inheritance that any public discussion of the Jewish Question is organized and inspired by a Jew-hater. That idea is sought to be fixed in the Gentile by propaganda; that any writing which does not simply cloy and drip sirrupy sweetness towards things Jewish is born of prejudice and hatred. It is, therefore, "full of lies, insult, insinuation, and constitutes an instigation to massacre." These terms can be found in current Jewish editorials.
WHAT IS "ANTI-SEMITISM"?
Anti-Semitism is a term which is bandied about too loosely. If it continues to be used indiscriminately and vituperatively about all who attempt to discuss Jewish characteristics and Jewish world-power, it will, in time, arrive at the estate of respectability and honor. It may be a useful clearing of the ground to define what anti-Semitism is not.
1. It is not a recognition of the Jewish Question. If it were, then it could be set down that the bulk of the American people are destined to become anti-Semites, for they are beginning to recognize the existence of a Jewish Question and will steadily do so in increasing numbers as the Question is forced on them from the various practical angles of their lives. The Question is here. We may be honestly blind to it. We may be timidly silent about it. We may even make dishonest denial of it. But it is here and in time all will have to recognize it. In time the polite "hush, hush," of over-sensitive or intimidated circles will not be powerful enough to suppress it.
But to recognize that Question will not mean that we have gone over to a national campaign of hatred and enmity against the Jews. It will only mean that a stream of tendency which has been flowing through our civilization has at last accumulated bulk and power enough to challenge attention, to call for some decision with regard to it, to call for the adoption of a policy which will not repeat the mistakes of the past and yet forestall any possible menace of the future.
2. The public discussion of the Jewish Question is not "anti-Semitism." Publicity is sanitary. But the kind of publicity given to certain aspects of the Jewish Question in this country has been very misleading. It has been discussed more fully in the Jewish Press than elsewhere, but not with candor or breadth of vision. The two dominant notes -- sounded over and over again with monotonous regularity -- are Gentile unfairness and Christian prejudice. It is fortunate for the Jews generally that the Jewish Pres
What the FUCK?
Jherico
What can the average user can do to ensure his security? "Nothing, you're screwed"
help from the French!
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
yes you are... if you have your own instance of legalSystem, you can modify the source to your heart's content...
:)
but as long as you use the hosted solution, you are bound by what your hosting provider uses...
"Go to CNN [for a] spell-checked, fact-checked summary" -- CmdrTaco
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
In those days, the gymnasium was not free. His family was not well off and he did not possess the means to attend school. He also was focusing on architectural drafting, which is what required the higher level math of the gymnasium. He was not a mere painter.
He did however make money doing average run of the mill painting. Many of his works are in fact quite impressive, there is no question he had artistic talent. Many of his more detailed architectural paintings showed great promise.
Hitler was a hard working, honest man. These early experiences profoundly shaped his politcal leanings there is no question. In 1933, when Americans couldn't afford food let alone education, Hitler made sure no young man with artistic talent would be unable to pursue his dreams. All education was free.
It is funny you characterize Hitler as out to make a buck. Whatever else the man did, he lead a profoundly humble life until the day he died. There can be no question he was doing what he believed to be right, he did not profit from his actions. Read some 1930's articles about the Eagle's Nest, his mountain retreat. While the views were amazing, and the structure technically advanced, the decor and size was modest. Hitler had no palace, nor personal slaves. He would make his own breakfast and lunch, and had a relatively small number of personal guards compared to El Presidente.
If anything, Hitler was the last stand against decadence amongst leaders.
Hitler stood against the whole world, against international finance, against parasitic communism, against irresponsible industry, and for his people. A bum. I would like to see you wage war against the whole world for six years. A war started because you were simply reclaiming your nation's homeland!
Hitler was ahead of his time. THe future is coming, and in it the Jews and all other financial parasites will have no place in it. I only hope that the White Race will not become extinct beforehand.
Chapter 15.
THE BATTLE FOR PRESS CONTROL
The first instinctive answer which the Jew makes to any criticism of his race coming from a non-Jew is that of violence, threatened or inflicted. This statement will be confirmed by hundreds of thousands of citizens of the United States who have heard the evidence with their own ears, seen it with their own eyes.
If the candid investigator of the Jewish Question happens to be in business, the "boycott" is the first answer of which the Jews seem to think. Whether it be a newspaper, or a mercantile establishment, or a hotel, or a dramatic production; or any manufactured article whose maker has adopted the policy that "my goods are for sale, but not my principles" -- if there is any manner of business connection with the student of the Jewish Question, the first "answer" is "boycott."
The technique of this: a "whispering drive" is first begun. Disquieting rumors begin to fly thick and fast. "Watch us get him, is the word that is passed along. Jews in charge of national ticker news services adopt the slogan of "a rumor a day." All leading news agencies in America are Jew-controlled. Jews in charge of newspapers adopt the policy of "a slurring headline a day." Jews in charge of the newsboys on the streets (all the street concerns are preempted by Jewish "padrones" who permit only their own boys to sell) give orders to emphasize certain news in their street cries -- "a new yell against him every day. " The whole campaign against the critic of Jewry, whoever he may be, is keyed to the threat, "Watch us get him."*
"The whispering drive," "the boycott," these are the chief Jewish answers. They constitute the bone and the sinew of that state of mind in non-Jews which is known as "the fear of the Jews."
BENNETT'S STRUGGLE
This is the story of a boycott which lasted over a number of years; it is only one of numerous stories of the same kind which can be told of America. There have been even more outstanding cases since this one, but it dates back to the dawn of Jewish ambitions and power in the United States, and it is the first of the great battles which Jewry waged, successfully, to snuff out the independent Press.
It concerns the long defunct "New York Herald," one newspaper to remain independent of Jewish influence in New York. The Herald enjoyed an existence of 90 years, which was terminated in 1920 by the inevitable amalgamation. It performed great feats in the world of news-gathering. It sent Henry M. Stanley to Africa to find Livingstone. It backed the Jeannette expedition to the Arctic regions. It was largely instrumental in having the first Atlantic cables laid. Its reputations among newspaper men was that neither its news nor its editorial columns could be bought or influenced. But perhaps its greatest feat was the maintenance during many years of its journalistic independence against the combined attack of New York Jewry. Its proprietor, the late James Gordon Bennett, a great American citizen famed for many helpful activities, had always maintained a friendly attitude toward the Jews of his city. He apparently harbored no prejudices against them. Certainly he never deliberately antagonized them. But he was resolved upon preserving the honor of independent journalism. He never bent to the policy that the advertisers had something to say about the editorial policy of the paper, either as to influencing it for publication or suppression. In Bennett's time the American Press was in the majority free. Today it is entirely Jewish controlled. This control is variously exercised, sometimes resting only on the owners' sense of expediency. But the control is there, and for the moment it is absolute. Fifty years ago there were many more newspapers in New York than there are today, since then amalgamation has reduced the competition to a select few who do not compete. This development has been the same in other countries, particularly Great Britain.
EDITOR'S NOTE: *Following the rise of the "popular" syndicated "c
Well said. Nothing like the essential elements of effective communications: clarity and brevity.
Chapter 3.
VICTIMS, OR PERSECUTORS?
From the earliest record of the Jews' contact with other; nations, no long period of years has ever passed without the charge arising that the Jews constitute "a people within a people, a nation within a nation." When this charge is made today it is vehemently denied by men who pose as the defenders of their people, and the denial is more or less countenanced by all the Jews of every class. Yet there is nothing more clearly stated in Jewish teaching, nor more clearly indicated in Jewish life, than that the charge is true. But whether the truth should be used against the Jews is quite another question.
If the Jews are a nation, their nationality founded upon the double ground of race and religion, it is certainly outside the bounds of reason that they should be asked or expected to de-racialize, de-nationalize and de-religionize themselves; but neither is it to be expected that they should bitterly denounce those who state the facts. It is only on a basis of facts that a solution of any problem can come. Where the blame attaches is here: that the evident facts are denied, as if no one but the Jews themselves knew that there are such facts.
If the Jews are to be continuously a nation, as they teach, and if the condition of "a nation within a nation' becomes more and more intolerable, then the solution must come through one of two things: a separation of the "nation" from the rest of the nations, or an exaltation of the "nation" above the rest of the nations. There is a mass of evidence in Jewish writings that the leaders expect both of these conditions to come -- a separate nation and a super-nation; indeed the heart of Jewish teaching is that Jewry is a separate nation now, and on the way to becoming a super-nation. It is only those appointed to address the Gentiles who deny this: the real rabbinate of Judah does not deny.
JEWS OBJECT TO "AMERICANISM."
In any investigation of the Jewish Question, the student is struck over and over again by the fact that what the Jews most complain of, they themselves began. They complain of what they call anti-Semitism; but it must be apparent to the dullest mind that there could never have been such a thing as anti-Semitism were there not first such a thing as Semitism. Then take the complaint about the Jews having to live in ghettos. The ghetto is a Jewish invention. In the beginning of the invasion of European cities, and centuries later of American cities, the Jews always lived by themselves because they wanted to; because they believed the presence of Gentiles contaminated them. Jewish writers, writing for Jews, freely admit this; but in writing for Gentiles, they refer to the ghetto as an illustration of Gentile cruelty. The idea of contamination originated with the Jews, it is an old oriental survival; it spread by suggestion to the Gentiles. So with this fact of the separate "nation"; it was the Jews who first recognized it, first insisted upon it and have always sought to realize that separateness both in thought and action.
More, the true and normal type of Jew believes that the influence of Americanism, or of any civilized Gentile state, is harmful to Judaism. That is a serious statement and no amount of Gentile assertion will be sufficient to confirm it. Indeed, it is such a statement as the Gentile mind could not have evolved, because the trend of Gentile feeling is all in the opposite direction, namely that Americanization is a good thing for the Jew. It is from authoritative Jewish sources we learn this fact, that what we call civilizing influences are looked upon as being at enmity with Judaism. It is not the Gentile who says that Jewish ideals, as ideals, are incompatible with the life of our country; it is the Jew who says so. It is he who inveighs against Americanism, not the American who inveighs against Judaism.
Americanism is yet unfinished, Judaism has been complete for centuries. While no American would think of pointing to any part of the country or to
The headline that CNN posted doesnt say specifically who Sharman Networks is filing suit against, it just says "record labels"
Looks interesting. When the RIAA used the program, they agreed to some things. Some of these are privacy based: not to "Monitor traffic or make search requests in order to accumulate information about individual users," or " Collect or store personal data about other users."
Plus, if one person downloaded once and installed it on multiple computers in order to do their big search, he's breaking the license just as I would be if I bought a copy of Windows and installed it on all 50 computers in a company: "This Licence does not permit you to install the Software on more than one computer at a time"
And the one that wraps it up: "It is you responsibility to comply with the terms of this Licence...Your rights under this Licence will terminate immediately and without prior notice if : you violate any term of this License..."
So they did one of the things in the first two paragraphs, they violate the terms of the license and are no longer legal to run Kazaa -- they might as well be caught with a pirate copy of Windows. And KazaaLite, if they were using it, says absolutely no commercial use allowed.
Ummm... you do realize that the US isn't a democracy. Look it up. The US government is a "Republic with Democratic tendencies." Hence why things like Majority supression don't exist.
Democrat, Republican, doesn't matter, they have ALL sold out, and not always to the highest bidder. I think they're Bastards, every last one of 'em. Let 'em all die and hang on hooks!
Hitler creates paintings in Vienna in the 1930s. Good. Hitler tries to exterminate the jews in the 1940s. Evil.
Hitler's paintings sucked. That's why he had to get a new job as dictator.
Red eye's at night, Hackers delight. Red eye's in the morning, Professors Warning.
Foley Hoag, the Boston firm represents the RIAA.
Colin J. Zick, the Foley Hoag lawyer
http://www.fhe.com/profile.asp?aid=230
Most people have called the Recording Industry Association of America's "long standing admiration for the importance of copyright law" strictly "self-serving."
The Recording Industry Association of America called Sharman's "newfound admiration for the importance of copyright law" ironic and "self-serving."
And once again, it seems a reminder is neccessary that we of /. are not of one mind. Some think network protocols are sacred property, others who read/post disagree. How bout that?
Looks good for your age..
i find this one of those brain-busting situations...morally, i can't support a lawsuit in which the plaintiff is accusing the defendant of refusing to install nasty spyware (are webhancer, bde, and toptext still bundled with kazaa?) i haven't touched most mainstream p2p clients in years, for that very reason. but i also obviously can't support the RIAA, for obvious reasons.
even though my support either way matters absolutely nothing in the long run, i am supportive of the fact that this lawsuit exists. why? because it'll distract them just a little bit more from doing other things that will piss me off.
and by the way, i don't know if the record companies are still using the same "encryption" scheme for preventing ripping tracks as they did in 2001, when tori amos's "strange little girls" was released. i bought that cd (used, of course...gold-stamped with "promotional use only"), and it's one of those corrupted discs. it doesn't play at all on my main computer...it just hangs when i try to access the disc's filespace, but i have a very old compaq (the ones they sold without audio cables and no way to hook one up, just so that they could save a buck by cutting corners, at their customers' expense) and i am able to listen to and rip all the tracks with it. i was highly surprised to find that that compaq is actually useful for something other than an expensive doorstop!
"fools and their leaders, they have no doubts." --levellers, "believers"
I am in 9th grade and I am writing a speech on how the DMCA is unconstitutional and why it should be repealed. I have a main outline but any sugestions to help prove my agrument would be helpful... thanks
If I flagrantly violate the Windows EULA by decompiling, reverse engineering, benchmarking, and doing who-knows-what else to it, could I then absolve myself of this by telling them, "I just did it to see if you guys were up to anything illegal"?
Okay, what about news agencies that committ a crime as part of a sting operation? For example, let's say that Geraldo decides he's going to do an investigative report on how secure our airports are after 9/11. So, Geraldo decides he's going to load a suitcase with something that looks like a bomb to see if anyone notices, and he's going to walk through the metal detector with a box cutter.
Now let's say that the security works and Geraldo is caught, and his cameraman catches the whole thing on tape. Do we send Geraldo to JAIL for being a terrorist?
Or does he get off because he was testing the system?
Now flipside, let's say the suitcase with the "bomb" gets through, flies to miami and back and nobody notices, and Geraldo airs his report showing the gross incompetence of our airline safety.
Does the government bust into the studio and arrest Geraldo at that point? After all, he's voilated the law, defacto, he proved that the system failed until he admitted his crime. But the crime took place nevertheless.
Do we let him off for testing the system, or do we haul his ass into jail for 50 years?
And if you decide he deserves to be arrested, what does that say about our country, our freedom of the press, or our ability to question our government? You might as well burn the constitution.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
Yes, lets get Kazaa lite banned, since we all love kazaa spyware etc., and lets set a precedent to prevent 3rd party clients from using a particular protocol so AOL can sue your favorite IM clone software maker. That's a really good idea /.ers.
Vote for Pedro
If it's just a license agreement keeping the riaa or whoever from collecting ips, then it could give a little more fuel to the idea that the riaa needs legal protection to go after who they want. Something like a law that allows them to practice their own vigilantism, like we saw attempted not too long ago.
Of course, it could also lead the idea that software or click through licenses/agreements are a bunch of bs to begin with. Maybe they are?
Just some thoughts.
J
America is not simply a democracy my friend. We are, to be quite specific about it, an integrative-moderate-majoritarian-democracy. I could write (and unfortunatly have written) a 30 page essay about what this means. But the long and the short of it goes something like this: It is a democracy with built-in political incentives for inter-issue party appeal. The government runs on a constant level of spin which encourages the political-elites to gravitate to a moderate and generally speaking well-justified central ideal. All that jibber jabber basically means that, we make it clear to our political leaders that more than anything we care about stability and prosperity - and they learn that if they wanna stay around they shouldn't rock the boat.
-dewhite
Ah, and when I post the story when it goes out on the AP wire, it gets rejected :(
--
www.nitemarecafe.com
I think that an easy way to fix RIAA from accessing computers and using the information against you would be to change the programs. If they required you accept a clause that you can't use information gather from the network against anyone on the network. Without accepting the clause you don't get access to the network. If you use information against someone, it is then obtained illegally.
Just a thought.
I'm rooting for Kazaa just like everyone else on this one, but seriously... this stands about as much chance as the old FTP servers I used to frequent that displayed a banner claiming "If you are a member of a government agency, including law enforcement, you must disconnect now."
Law enforcement agencies have investigatory powers granted by law, which supersede any "Terms of Use" an ftp server may impose on you. The RIAA has no such power, and would be forced to disconnect if the terms said "No RiAA". They can not go ahead, violating the ToS and then justify it by evidence they may (or may not) find afterwards, when traversing the FTP server.
At least so far. They've managed to get subpoena power already (with a clerk's stamp cloak), look out for when they get investigatory powers as well...
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
The same was argued about VCRs and as they say the rest is history.
Practically any technology can be used for illegal purposes. Cars, phones, TVs, computers, planes, medicine, bycicles, you name it.
Should we ban everything for that reason? Nope, obviously not, but for some nebulous logic there are people like you making this same point that has no logical base whatsoever.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Uhh, how do you think that they caught the RIAA? Yay spyware! What?! I mean, spyware bad.... head spinning... p a i n...
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
You know. Paratroopers called in to ensure that minority students could attend school and not get killed?
Either UCITA or DMCA had a clause about unlawful circumvention. If there is some part here that is encrypted (xor 81 or whatever), even if documented, could be unlawful circumvention, and could land them 5 years of jail or something like that. I am gonna read and check up on that.
- - - Non Caffeine Drink or Drink Error
The U.S. is a Representative Republic, NOT a Democracy!
I keep reading statements by people here that talk about how Slashdot is being hypocritical by wanting Kazaa to win. That "Slashdot supposedly hates software licenses when they don't serve them." What the hell? That's always been the truth. EULAs are bad when they make stupid provisions, not that EULAs are bad. Don't forget that the GPL is an EULA.
I hope to God that they don't rule EULAs are generally valid!
"
Don't be obtuse.
By opening a communication with someone with that statement, aren't you violating some of the basic tenets of good and polite communication, and, thereby, being a little obtuse yourself?
"
Buy a dictionary, stupid.
Look obtuse up, lazy.
And stop that notorious perambulating in public!
Why vote for the lesser evil?
It's a good thing we have a representative and federalist system with three branches on both the national and state levels, various checks and balances between it all, and overall limits to the power of each government.
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson