Slashdot Mirror
Oops, Dave Barry Does It Again
agdv writes "After the success of his first article providing the phone number of the American Teleservices Association, and the ensuing reaction by said organization, columnist Dave Barry attacks again, providing the ATA's new phone number. Read all about it! (the number is 317-816-9336, long distance charges may apply)."
I for one say excellent
I like the idea of calling the association, but I am more enthusiastic about contacting the heads of the association at home, during dinner. It would be a real shame if someone were to dig up those folks numbers....
...I can't get a hold of the national do not call list too see if Dave's on it or not.
don't wanna get hit with that 2K fine ya know...
Way to go Dave! This is hilarious, a pity we can't do the same thing with the RIAA or MPAA numbers!
I'd call and say,
"Please hold for an important message..."
He serves a valid point... They call you, and it is extremely rude to call someone who doesn't want to be called.. So they sit there and say that what he did was rude.. hes just doing what they are doing to prove a point.. And he should keep doing it till Telemarketing is destroyed, and the agency comes up with a BETTER idea, like say perhaps getting permission to call?
Just me
It seems they don't just need a new phone number (again!) but soon they'll also need a new (additional!) web server ;-)
I love telemarketers. I can be as amazingly offensive to them as I like because they're being fucking irritating and interrupting me; and if they reply in the same manner they could get fired. It's the most stress relieving activity I've ever encountered. Probably pisses them off though.
Shame.
(http://www.ataconnect.org/ is a nice looking site, and it still seems to be up as of 10am)
From the article:
And I am, frankly, tempted to reveal to you here that the American Teleservices Association (www.ataconnect.org/) seems to have a phone line working (at least for now) at 317-816-9336.
Whew! That was close. We wouldn't want Mr. Barry to sully his relationship with the ATA by posting such scandalous info. Kudos to you, sir, for your strenuous efforts to maintain some level of decorum!
However, I have no such relationship...
American Teleservices Association 317-816-9336
American Teleservices Association 317-816-9336
American Teleservices Association 317-816-9336
American Teleservices Association 317-816-9336
American Teleservices Association 317-816-9336
Have a nice day!
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
http://www.ataconnect.org/boardofdirectors.htm http://www.ataconnect.org/staff.htm Someone get the white pages for the US and find out address and phone numbers please!
I can't reach www.ataconnect.org. Probably DOs'd.
Who doesn't love Dave Barry? WIth the exception of telemarketers of course...
The phone number appears to have been slashdotted. What he should have also done (if it exists) is provide a 1-800 number as well. Companies get charged for that. Think about slashdotters dialing a 1-800 number and charging a company, such as the aforementioned Lexmark, for being morons.
Protesting in the 21st century!
Jason Lotito
his group argues that, if its members are prohibited from calling people who do not want to be called, then two million telemarketers will lose their jobs.
Since when did pestering peole during dinner become a profession? No I am talking about the automatic dialers. More than half the calls I receive, are made by automatic dialers.
I mean I wouldn't mind talking to a actual humanoid on the other trying to make me upgrade my long distance service, when I dont even have a long distance service to begin with!!!!
Consensus is good, but informed dictatorship is better
Sorry for the bad formatting. Here again:
ATA Board of Directors (Google Cache)
ATA Staff (Google Cache)
- Get a 1-900 number
- Anonymously tip off Dave Barry, telling him my number is an ATA number
- Wait for Dave Barry to post my number on the innurnet
- profit
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
"(the number is 317-816-9336, long distance charges may apply)."
Not if you live in that area code.
the board probably has unlisted numbers, and I dunno that I want to harass someone who just works there. I mean, it's not like they're patent lawyers or something.
Must be the phone equivalent of Slashdotted.
(For those of you who don't see the pun, "Berry'ed" = "buried" -- ah, never mind.)
This tagline is copyrighted material. Please send $10 for an affordable replacement.
most major corporate execs have the minimum intelligence necessary (and the financial resource available) to not be listed in the white pages.
........
lexis-nexus, otoh
This "idea" is really not that great second time around.
Firstly, it's Sunday in US. Chances are no one is there. By tomorrow, it'll drop off the first page (although I realize Barry has his followers)
Secondly, it's not a toll-free number. You have to pay long-distance charges, hence there is no actual damage done to the association people might want to annoy.
Can we let it go? The laws are fucked up. How about publishing the numbers of those congressmen who voted against DNC list? I don't see what this campaign is going to accomplish. Go after the gatekeeper.
I would but for some reason it is not responding!!! /.ed at 10:06 perhaps???
I would say that it is slashdotted, But I suspect that it is more like "americaed".
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Instead of having a opt-out list there should be an Opt-in list. The people who want to be called will enlist giving their explicit permission to telemarketers. It would clear the confusion and make it easy for everyone. Most of the people do not want to be called but they may not enlist in opt-out list and may end up getting calls. The opt-in list will solve the problem. To be fair, the telemarketers will be given one chance to call everyone and ask their permission to call in the future. They will get their answer right then and there from the horse's mouth ;-)
Btw, Kudos to Dave!!!
- Jalil Vaidya
If you call collect they still get a call. They'll probably reject the charges, but the phone will still ring.
Do you accept the charges from "An Angry Phone Customer"?
If they are botheres by the people calling them , they should look into that new thing called Do-not-call registry. Maybe they could list the ATA number there. :)
Slashdot Sig. version 0.1alpha. Use at your own risk.
Wow, /. a phone number in the early morning hours of a sunday. Nice work guys! Let's see if we can keep it that way for a while.
Googling for the phone number yielded a few-months-old column against telemarketing regulations.
...on a related note, the home page currently has a poll: "Is The National Do Not Call List Unconstitutional?"
In it, he posts numbers for the ATA and DMA (Direct Marketing Association).
either slashdotted, or their webmaster is like most other geeks... furiously reloading slashdot pages at his terminal.
He got those pages offline quickly... neat work.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
Farm animals horrified by full frontal human exposure.
Dave Barry Strikes AGAIN!
Using "free speech" rights to quash the list in America is, in my opinion, an abuse of the constitution. Mind you, it's not the first time it's been mangled and abused for the benefit of some interested party.
I saw a few minutes on telemarketers on CNN a few days ago and they rolled out the same excuses Dave Barry ridicules. They said they were hardworking people, just like the rest of us. They actually argued that it was bad because it would put people out of work.
:)
In a later discussion on the same show someone pulled out the lame-sounding but apt question - should stealing cars be legal just because it puts people out of work if it's illegal?. Some dufus responded, saying it was an invalid argument since stealing cars is illegal. Finish the thought and you've got "...stealing cars is illegal and calling people who don't want to be called is legal". So the dufus had a rather circular argument - it should be legal because it's legal. I was rather annoyed that nobody called him on it.
Anyway, it's fun to watch this one from the sidelines. I haven't had a landline in 3 years.
Yeah! Those evil telemarketers! Everyone knows they're in it just to annoy you at dinner! And NOBODY buys their crap anyway! The spiteful jerks who work for them will have to find HONEST jobs now!
Let's ban TV ads next!
Grab a torch! Where's my pitchfork!
Thomas Rocca, (770) 429-1956, 3840 Jiles Rd NW, Kennesaw, GA 30144
Looks like the Chairman to me, comparing the Google Cache of the Directors page, and typing Thomas Rocca GA into Google
~Donald / Just RTFM
Please?
Google Phone Book
I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this information!
Someone please doublecheck!
Thomas Rocca, Kennesaw, GA
Andrew Miller, Omaha, NE
Mark WIlliams, Wilmington, DE
The telemarketers are trying, no matter what the consequences are to others, to defend their right to make calls.
The politicians are trying, no matter what the consequences are to others, to react to popular demand (not a terrible thing) but to defend their right to make calls. (The "unconstitutional" argument is that charities, churches, and politicians can still call, but businesses can't.)
But we can be part of the problem, too. Not in demanding to eat dinner, or work from home, uninterrupted; that's fair. On the other hand, when we take out our frustration on the underpaid guys on the other end of the line -- instead of politely saying, "please put me on your company's do-not-call list, have a nice day" -- then we, too, are pursuing our agendas no matter what the consequences are to others.
And the next time you get a call, be as angry as you want at the caller's employer, but remember: you're only one layoff and twelve months of unemployment away from the person calling you.
Stupid job ads, weird spam, occasional insight at
info@ataconnect.org
Hrm..I wonder if they get enought unsolicited email. I mean, isn't that the same thing as unsolicited phone calls?
Jason Lotito
.....for Dave Barry and infinite while loops. >D
If you think telemarketers are bad, here in Australia there are people called "blowers" (a consumer affairs bureau term, not sure if there is an equivalent in the U.S. although most likely) that call up businesses asking for payment of imaginary advertising, saying something like "I'm calling from the (rescue/police/fire/etc) magazine, and just wanted to follow up on your offer a few months ago to help us out with an advert in our magazine.. how would you like to pay for it?"
The amounts are usually something like $200, and it is all very illegal.. but it's amazing how many of these groups are out there - with some of them getting very insistent and rude if you try to deny having agreed to pay.
I usually just hang up on them. I have a friend that listens intently, maybe asks some questions, then says 'Hold on while I get my credit card.' Then he puts the phone down and doesn't check back for at least a half hour. One telemarketer he did this to called him back later from his home to bitch about all the time wasted from making a quota or some BS like that.
I actually work in a call center (service ONLY, no telemarketing) and I've heard of some unusual things happening. People calling from their car and getting into a wreck because they're trying to read an account number from their checkbook; some guy even had a heart-attack right when he called, the phone rep (who luckily already had his account info) called the paramedics for him. That's not a time when you want to hear 'Your call is very important to us....'
-Steve
$7.95/mo, 200 GB disk, 2TBxfer, MySQL, PHP, RoR.
Chairmain
Thomas Rocca
1014 Ector Dr Nw
Kennesaw, GA 30152
(770) 429 - 1956
Vice-Chairman
Lisa Defalco (Business Number)
TPG Telemanagement Inc
301 Oxford Valley Road, Morrisville, PA 19067
(215) 369-0979
I'll leave the lookups of the rest as an exercise for the reader:
Geek used to be a four letter word. Now it's a six-figure one.
Wish I still had some of my old-school hacking proggies around, thinking in particular of my war-dialers.
You kids just don't know how hacking used to be... running your war-dialers at night, all night, for days on a 300 baud modem... all so your parents wouldn't complain about not being able to use the phone. It took days to dial through a single prefix.
After that, manually modem-dialing all those numbers to see what kind of computers you had called... A few local war-dialers could but a hurting on that ATA number...
This is all strictly hypothetical, of course, since I would NEVER suggest anything of such questionable legality...
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
My new career is to sneak up on people, trip them, and kick them in the back of the head with fuzzy dog slippers. But the government started a "Do Not Kick" list that you don't even have to sign up for! What about my First Amendment rights to cute slipper ultra-violence? I might lose my job!
It appears that the www.ataconnect.org machine is still on the Internet but not responding properly to http requests.
It's still responding to pings (although not very well) and also gives back some SYN/ACK packets. If it's a bandwidth problem, they've probably taken it down on purpose until the traffic stops. Why they didn't just unplug the machine though is beyond me.
----www.ataconnect.org PING Statistics----
17 packets transmitted, 17 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 108/801/4445
Check out the staff page. It is all managers, not staff. Enjoy.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Dave: Quit calling me!
Horde Against Lawmaker: I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that.
Remote shocking device to allow the victim of telemarketing to send a 4000amp charge down the line to the person at the call centre.
;-)
Another would be for the US to declare war on Telemarketing. Why? well, when ever GWB has a speech, guess what happens? the phone rings. When the phone rings, GWB loses his "connection with the American public". If you get rid of the telemarketers, you get a loyal listening audience
Could you imagine the speech?
"My fellow Americans, our country is under attack by spam, telemarketing and faxes. This group constitutes a Triangle of Trash. We must unit as a people to purge this scourge from this great nation of ours. Countries who current allow these communication terrorists to operate in their country have to make a decision, they are either with us or against us."
"The difference between pornography and erotica is the lighting" - Woody Allen
Dial *67 before you dial the number, and your number will show up as 'blocked ID' (or similar) on the display on the other end.
However, IIRC this does not work when you're calling a 1-800 or other toll-free number. I guess the idea is that if you are footing the bill you should be allowed to block your number, and if you are paying for the toll-free line you should be able to see who is calling you - which makes sense.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
Does anyone have a link to the original article?
Thanks.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Betsy Devine's blog has this quote:
"The number Dave Barry printed is now disconnected. And of course it is illegal as well as wrong to make prank phone calls. The law stands firm against the kinds of jokes played by 9 year-old kids!
But surely it's a fair use of free speech to call the ATA's legislative branch, whose toll-free number is listed on their contact page as (866) 500-4272, and urge them to lobby for better Do Not Call laws."
Surely.
I had no idea these people had an office right in my backyard. Forget about calling... How about I show up with a sandwich board and protest for an afternoon?
Sure, it would be kind of stupid, but I could conceivably get on the local news and generate some more (bad) publicity for the telemarketing industry.
Who did what now?
Uhh... no. it might be harassment for one person to call over and over and over and over... maybe yelling obscenities or threats or something...
I'm not so sure that one or two calls to the association that's largely responsible for making home life unpleasant for me, is wholly exempt from receiving a phone call from me. I have as much right to call them to complain about the actions of their members as they have asserted FOR DECADES in calling the rest of us.
Busy signal at 7:31 PST on Sunday. ;-)
Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
Score: -1 100% Flamebait
I assume your intent is to maliciously "slashdot" them. If they are not your congressmen, you have no business calling them in this fasion.
Two of my congressmen voted the way I hoped they would vote. If people in my state don't like it, they should be calling them, since they are being represented. I'm willing to bet that your congresspeople voted according to your desires. Don't waste my state's resources with your harassment, please.
It is disgusting how easily people revert to mob behavior.
But I really do have this bridge to sell them. That's why I'm calling.
If they could catch you at your most inconvenient time, they would. In fact, if they could tell without having to call that you were not interested, they would not make the call.
Isn't that what the do-not-call list is made for? They could tell beforehand that you don't want them to call. But they insist they want to call you despite that and rule the list illegal. So, you're plainly wrong here.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Directors: Chairman Thomas Rocca Interactive Response Technologies Kennesaw, GA Vice-Chairman Lisa DeFalco TPG Telemanagement Yardley, PA Treasurer Andrew Miller, Apac Omaha, NE Secretary Kathryn Barber Barber Consulting Atlantic Highlands, NJ Immediate Past Chairman Bill Miklas InfoUSA Omaha, NE Directors Stuart Discount Tele-Response Center Inc. Philadelphia, PA Benjamin Harris Unicall International Fairlawn, OH Connie Richardson West/Dakotah Direct II Spokane, WA Gil Stallings Consultant Hackensack, NJ Kathleen Thompson Bank One Wilmington, DE Mark Williams MBNA Wilmington, DE
I predict the ATA uses Caller-ID to harvest the phone numbers of everyone who calls them, then states that they have a "prior business relationship" with them, and starts calling them back.
Why they didn't just unplug the machine though is beyond me. ;)
i think they are busy answering the fone calls.
Consensus is good, but informed dictatorship is better
Could there be a new business model in opt-in calling? Essentially marketers could cut down on the number of people they call, reducing their costs and increasing their success rate. With a higher success rate they get higher profit margins, that would allow them to either pass on discounts to those who do opt in, or even to pay people who are willing to be called and listen to the sales pitch.
Excuse my formatting
Chairman
Thomas Rocca
Interactive Response Technologies
Kennesaw, GA
Vice-Chairman
Lisa DeFalco
TPG Telemanagement
Yardley, PA
Treasurer
Andrew Miller,
Apac
Omaha, NE
Secretary
Kathryn Barber
Barber Consulting
Atlantic Highlands, NJ
Immediate Past Chairman
Bill Miklas
InfoUSA
Omaha, NE
Directors
Stuart Discount
Tele-Response Center Inc.
Philadelphia, PA
Benjamin Harris
Unicall International
Fairlawn, OH
Connie Richardson
West/Dakotah Direct II
Spokane, WA
Gil Stallings
Consultant
Hackensack, NJ
Kathleen Thompson
Bank One
Wilmington, DE
Mark Williams
MBNA
Wilmington, DE
No the ATA claim it is there consitutional right to call me, underfree speech, just because they wish to call me to sell me shit, is of know relevence what so over. So, under that interpretation of free speach I should be able to call them to tell them the sky is blue, there is no special interpectation of free speech to selling stuff.
However people do not understand the right to free speech correctly, its the right to hold any view say and publish what you like. This can even be false (if it is false though you could be held lyable under other laws), BUT you can still say it! The think you have NO right to do is to force other people to listen to what you say. The ATA are effectively saying, we have the right to force people to listen to (atleast) the first 10 seconds of our call. Porn one its free speech right to be published not to require everyone in the states to buy it.
Personally you would have thought it would make sence for the the ATA to have a list of numbers for people who arn't interested in buying shit over the phone. Which would mean they could target the people who are!
James
Of course not, that's why they call between 5pm and 7pm on weekdays and Saturday instead of say.. between 9am and 5pm during "normal" business hours.
If they could catch you at your most inconvenient time, they would.
Don't you mean convenient time? They already catch us at our most inconvenient time. For me that's between the hours of 9:01am and 9am.
In fact, if they could tell without having to call that you were not interested, they would not make the call.
I have an idea: What if we setup a national do-not-call list and everyone that doesn't want to receive telemarketing would put their phone number on it. What? They didn't like that idea? It doesn't sound like they're interested in my convenience anymore, just their profits.
...and as a bonus some contacts with email addresses...
Tim Searcy
Executive Director
tim@ataconnect.org
Bill Morris
Finance Director
bill@ataconnect.org
Lynne McCauley
Director of Member Services
lynne@ataconnect.org
Mitchell Roth
Government Affairs Counsel
mitch@ataconnect.org
Brad Rateike
Manager of Member Services
brad@ataconnect.org
Jason Perry
Marketing Manager
jason@ataconnect.org
Karl Jacobs
Manager of Special Projects
kjacobs@ataconnect.org
Robert Fanger
Manager of IT Systems
bobf@ataconnect.org
telnet ataconnect.org 25
220 ataconnect.org ESMTP Sendmail 8.11.6/8.11.6; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 08:41:18 -0600
Please die painfully in the next 24 hours, you piece of shit. Fuck you. Fuck the ATA. Fuck the horses you rode in on. Fuck your mothers. Fuck your fathers. Fuck your dentist friend. We have had enough. We're tossing out a corrupt, twisted sack of monkey cum here in California, and the ATA will be next.
And MY dentist has all the patients he needs the old fashioned way- by being a damn good dentist. Word of mouth (pun intended) does the rest.
A plague of telemarketers on your house!
American Teleservices Association, Inc.
+1 (818) 766 5324
+1 (800) 441 3335
http://www.ataconnect.org/
When you pick up the phone to call ATA, what you are doing is harassment. You have nothing to sell them.
So you feel that the only Constitutionally protected form of speech should be commercial speech where the caller is trying to sell something? God forbid that a huge number of people call one of the telemarketing organizations and voice their opinion.
While my father was dying of cancer and I was awaiting "the call", I got a call from some jackass wanting to sell me vinyl replacement windows. When I was working night-shift testing satellites, I got multiple calls during the day from telemarketers who woke me up and kept me from getting adequate sleep. You think that these calls are valid forms of free speech which should exist unregulated but that me calling a business to tell them what I think of their lobbying efforts does not deserve those same protections?
I personally know an individual (a dentist) who has successfully used telemarketing. He employs one woman who works from home cold-calling people to get their teeth cleaned. Telemarketing has been the most successful method of getting new patients that he has ever tried. Additionally, the woman doing the job benefits from well paying at-home employment.
How is that any different than saying you know a successful penis enlargement pill salesman who employs people to send spam? I don't give a rat's ass about how successful he's been. It's like arguing that laws against embezzling are wrong because you know a successful embezzler.
I am not opposed to a Do Not Call list. I am, however, very much opposed to the legislation of said list.
So you think it's fine for people to register for the list but you don't think that telemarketers should be legally obliged to refrain from calling people on the list. Then, by extension, you believe that some handicapped or elderly person who has trouble and/or pain getting to the phone should be forced to receive telemarketing calls from any firm that wants to ignore the list. You think that people working night shift should have telemarketing calls wake them up in the middle of their sleep cycles. You believe that parents should have their toddlers woken up by telemarketing calls. You think that people should have to choose between taking the phone off of the hook and maybe missing an emergency telephone call or leaving it on the hook and being woken up, interrupted, or inconvenienced by some telemarketer.
You've got a screwed up set of priorities.
Sorry, but having a commercial agenda does not magically legitimize this practice. Yes, it is legal to make an unsolicited call to try to sell your products, just as it is EQUALLY legal to make an unsolicited call about, well, nothing. Only when an unwanted call is repeatedly made does this behavior fall into the realm of harassment.
So what if I just want to call them with the intention of inconveniencing them? Does the fact that they unintentionally inconvenience me set us apart? No.
You sir, are a telemarketing droid. Please get off Slashdot and put your head back up your ass until you suffocate.
"You were just happy for an opportunity to retaliate."
You are DAMNED RIGHT. Retaliation is good, be thankful we do not trap and trace you to the origin and walk in armed!!! I for one, would clean the entire building. Telemarketers, door knockers and their ilk need to go away forever.
Their total numbers are less than the people who lose REAL jobs on a monthly basis across the country. Get a life, get fucked you droid.
Demonstrating your opinion is not harassment. Thousands calling the ATA is no different than a bunch of homeowners picketing a company that wants to put say a nuclear dump next to your block. The do not call list MUST be legislated if it will ever be enforced. I once worked at a company where the execs thought about mailing advertisements to people on the DMA' "do not mail" list. The idea was that people on that list were not getting any other mail so they would be more reseptive to just this one piece of mail. The fact that you know one person that is successful will telemarketing is beside the point.
http://www.windmeadow.com/
And I live in Australia !
The Internet's nature is peer to peer - 20050301_cs_profs.pdf
Is it legal to call these people at home? Will they try to sue me?
So you don't want me bothering [at home] you...
Now you know how I feel.
- Seinfeld
Or, say, SCO? At 1-800-726-8649.
The number of assholes calling had dropped off in that last while leading up to the Oct 1st date. Now since Oct 1st we've recieved more calls than we have in the previous month. It seems that with things in a state of limbo the telemarketers are figuring on getting as many calls in as they can.
I used to tell them simply that i'm not interested and hang up. Now i tell them i'm on the list, call them names and generally abuse them. I can't understand what would make a telemarketer think that they would have a successfull call to someone who has actively taken measures that indicate that they explicitely don't want to receive them.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
Seems to me that many of us would have a reason to call as we would like to be put on their do not call list. I know that is what I'll ask when I call as this is always my first question when I get a call from any telemarketer. It is just unfortunate timing that everyone will be calling at the same time.
hehehe.....i will be calling that number once every hour letting them know something important or maybe even try to sell them a new webserver...ahh you gotta love it.
Right, and why again was the Do Not Call Registry set up? Seems to me a clear sign that people are not interested!
Erik
Is it legal to call these people at home? Will they try to sue me?
ROFL. They're staunch advocates of the supposed constitutional right to phone people at home and annoy them.
If I call them to politely make the point that I think turnabout is fairplay, it is not harassment, it is free speech. Arguably, I can even call several times with the same message to make the point that I don't like being called repeatedly with the same spiel and it would still be free speech, not harassment...it is not my fault that they get /.'d because so many ppl share that opinion; if anything, it validates my opinion and my right to make it known...
When all of your wishes have been granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed - Marilyn Manson
We can dream, I guess.
Marketroids (or any kind of businessman, for that matter) always seem to have this attitude that nothing should be permitted to stand between them and making money, regardless of how unscrupulously, immorally or inconsiderately they are acting.
Permit me to extend this rant somewhat: I am sure most readers will have noticed that some of the biggest lobbyists petitioning governments worldwide are businesses seeking subsidies or "incentives".
Yet these same individuals are often the same ones who extol the virtues of a free-market economy. What these parasites don't seem to accept is that these conditions are mutually exclusive.
When I dialed *67, then Thomas Rocca's #, this is what I hear...
:)
"This number has Privacy Director and does not accept caller ID blocked calls."
I wonder why.
.... is that there's nothing in it for me. Obvious Barry struck a deep nerve when he published the telemarketing firm's number. I think its the "something for nothing" nerve.
Why should I give you five minutes of my time on the telephone when you have nothing to offer me? I watch TV ads because I am being served "free" television shows. I look at pop-up ads (well, not really) because I have to get through them to get to the web content / porn that I am looking for. Billboards at least try and entertain or titillate me.
Telemarketing does nothing for me. Maybe if when they called I got 50 cents off my my phone bill each month I wouldn't get so ticked. In Europe, when you buy some sim cards for your cell phone, you can call a special code that will give you free local minutes on your cell, but first you have to listen to a 45 second commercial. I'm happy to listen to their little ad for the free minutes.
Surely these companies can come up with incentives for people to listen to their damn spiels. Every other form of advertising does.
Someone I once knew got cold called by a firm selling conservatories. Instead of getting angry, he was very enthusiastic and asked them to send round a surveyor. When the guy arrived, he was a bit narked to find that the prospective customer lived on the eighth floor of a tower block.
You have nothing to sell them.
Good point. Let's all be sure we have something to sell them when we call. I have an extra comb around here, and I'll be happy to sell it to them for, say, $1 plus $3 shipping and handling. Now it's a sales call, and I have every intention of transacting an honest business deal and looking for new customers for my venture.
What's the problem now?
-- http://frobnosticate.com
When I moved down to Northern VA and first got my phone, I was getting tons of telemarketing calls. But then I did something simple. The second I realized a call was a telemarketer, I said: "I'm sorry, but I'm not interested. Please take my number off your list." Click. That's it. I went from getting an average of 2 calls a day down to zero. Really. I hardly ever got called after I started doing that.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
W Ey f700T5zgCfS64L
- ----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Hash: SHA1
This is not insightful, this is misleading at best.
When you pick up the phone to call ATA, what you are doing is harassment. You have nothing to sell them. In fact, you would almost certainly (with few exceptions) not be calling them unless you knew that thousands of your peers would also be calling. You hope that your actions will cause problems for the ATA. You are participating in mob behavior.
The act of calling does not constitute harassment by itself. If it were there wouldn't be telemarketing in the first place. Harassment means making repeated threatening or obscene calls to the victim.
Besides, acting in numbers is not illegal like you seem to imply.
Here these people simply have a genuine message to tell the ATAssociation, and they are likely to express it in a polite, reasonable way. No harassment.
See ? Whatever the turn anyone tries to give to this issue, telemarketing is still wrong. It is not illegal, but it should become because it is rude, and sometimes offensive.
In fact, if they could tell without having to call that you were not interested, they would not make the call.
This is exactly what the Do Not Call list is for: telling people who accept telemarketing calls from those who don't. Telemarketers should actually welcome this list, now they will only have interested people on the other end of the line !
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (Darwin)
iD8DBQE/gDFV76Zattu5F5URArWRAJoD0pLjVQmDftvIcd0
+I77MVgsJB0H9gLBB9pvCzQ=
=5Oy/
They've been calling me for years, therefore I'd like to think that we have a business relationship.
That's good enough for me to call them and say hi and sell them some of my programming services.
Ohh, I'm sure most of their -errm- "customers" would love to sell them some navel lint at an incredible low price.
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
yeah, maybe it IS harrasment, maybe it IS illegal.
But I'll pay the fine if I get called (pun intended) on my actions by a court. It's worth it to make THEIR buisness model troublesome.
~Donald / Just RTFM
Phone cards ar 3 CENTS a minute.
So it will cost you 6 cents to f*ck with them.
You're not much of a man if you're not willing to spend just north of a nickel to irritate the ATA.
One call per person to voice an opinion shouldn't be illegal. If you call over and over, then that *IS* harassment.
When you pick up the phone to call ATA, what you are doing is harassment. You have nothing to sell them. In fact, you would almost certainly (with few exceptions) not be calling them unless you knew that thousands of your peers would also be calling. You hope that your actions will cause problems for the ATA. You are participating in mob behavior.
This isn't harassment. This is the American People(tm) making a democratic choice to call and offer their First Amendment right to make their voice heard, much like the ATA states that the First Amendment allows them to call us whenever, whereever. Harassment would be if we, oh, set up an autodialer and called them repeatedly with the intent to break the law/perform illegal activities. Again, it would be harassment if we started swearing, threatening, or performing other acts that the law would discriminate as "offensive". Simply calling a business to voice an opinion about something unpopular is by no means harassment.
By contrast, when a telemarketer calls you, they hope to sell you something. They have had success in this activity in the past, otherwise they would not try; the phone call costs money, as does the equipment, space, human resources staff, benefits, management, etc, not to mention the wages of those making the calls. They are not doing this to make you mad. They don't want to interrupt your dinner. If they could catch you at your most inconvenient time, they would. In fact, if they could tell without having to call that you were not interested, they would not make the call.
I don't know about you, but for every telemarkerter that has called me I have always told them (right noff the bat, before their little spiel) that I do not buy anything over the phone and to please remove my name from the list. I then hang up. (BTW, these are the actions one should take to, in theory, be removed from a list. It doesn't always work, however). Has this eliminated calls from telemerketers? Not in the least. As for the dinner comment, if these guys want to invest so much money into equipment and staffing, why not buy a map of the US marked off by area codes? This, with a little research saying that Americans typically eat dinner from, oh, 5:00 PM to 7:30 PM, would allow them to perhaps avoid those area codes during that time. It still gives them three other time zones to mess with at pretty much any given point.
I am not opposed to a Do Not Call list. I am, however, very much opposed to the legislation of said list. And I am opposed to the kind of mob behavior that caused the ATA to disconnect their phone line.
Again, you say mob behavior. This is not mob behavior, again it is the American People making their voice heard. What if 10,000 telemarketers calling tens of thousands of people called? Business? So it's business if you are paid to call people if they don't want to be called, but it is 'mob behavior' for us to call that company and complain?
And don't bother comparing this to calling your congressperson, they are supposed to hear from you and have budgets and staff explicitely for this purpose. Be honest now. If you called the ATA you weren't really trying to give them any information or state an opinion, you just wanted to inconvenience them. You were just happy for an opportunity to retaliate.
Perhaps you are confused. The ATA has a staff dedicated to answering calls such as these. It is called 'Customer Support', and many, if not most, companies have such a department. Their #1 priority is to handle complaints, comments, etc. from customers. And before you say we aren't customers, just remember that the phone ringing with "Unknown" or "Blocked" is due to some company trying to sell you something whether you like it or not. I am a customer, I never buy anything from them, they continue to call me, and I am fed up. It isn't mob behavior. It's me making my voice heard, and until someone abolishes the First Amendment we are more than welcome to do things such as this.
"This food is problematic."
"When you pick up the phone to call ATA, what you are doing is harassment. You have nothing to sell them. In fact, you would almost certainly (with few exceptions) not be calling them unless you knew that thousands of your peers would also be calling. You hope that your actions will cause problems for the ATA. You are participating in mob behavior."
Yeah. I have nothing against mob behaviour in that case. It's just that in the past it's always been against black people, or gays, or immigrants or whatever. It's that choice of victim which made it bad.
Mob behaviour against people who make the world a worse place is welcomed, as far as I'm concerned.
OK, you heard the man. When you call ATA, make sure you offer to sell them some of the stuff in your garage.
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
This must be the dumbest thing I've read in a long time. It's OK to make unwanted calls to people only if you want to sell them crap and take their money?
Capitalism at it's finest...
Using patent-pending rapid-fire redialing technology, I was able to get through and leave a message. The initial recording said that the voice mail box was full (no surprise), but cheerfully suggested that I try another. Fair enough. I banged in 1111 and left a message there. I gave them my four phone numbers to add to their do not call list.
Keep dialing!
the no
From the tmcnet.com page
http://www.tmcnet.com/cis/0403/0403po.htm
What Can You Do To Help?
If you are interested in helping the injunctive relief actions that are the subject of the above three lawsuits, write or call the following asking how you can help.
1. Contact the ATA and ask for Tim Searcy, Executive Director, ATA Strategic Planning. Phone: 317-816-9336; e-mail: timsearcy@ataconnect.org.
2. Contact the DMA and ask for Mike Faulkner, Senior Vice President, DMA Segments & Affiliates. Phone: 212-790-1598; e-mail: mfaulkne@the-dma.org.
Help them out! geve em a call!
> When you pick up the phone to call ATA, what you are doing is harassment. You have nothing to sell them.
The issue is:
(A) The ATA says they have a constitutional right to free speech that extends to their right to call me. The constitutional right has nothing to do with sales.
(B) If the ATA were to prosecute someone for not having a constitutional right to free speech that extends to my right to call them, they would be validating the do-not-call list.
(C) When someone _asks_ not to be called, as in registering with the ATA (through whatever agent, even the U.S. Government), and then the ATA calls, _that_ is harassment.
> I am, however, very much opposed to the legislation of said list.
(D) It's a last-resort effort. My home is my sanctuary. Who is welcome to enter, electronically or otherwise, is up to me, not to the ATA.
(E) People don't have a right to a job that harasses other people.
> If you called the ATA you weren't really trying to give them any
> information or state an opinion, you just wanted to inconvenience
> them. You were just happy for an opportunity to retaliate.
Some people just don't get it. Being happy for an opportunity to retaliate is an opinion. The question is, is calling the ATA as protected as the right they claim to call others.
everyone calling these board members at home and sell them the merits of Slashdot or ThinkGeek? After all it wouldn't be harrassment as long as you are calling to solicit these sites for their unique geekness eh? Sic em Slashdotters.
I can see it now...
*brrring*
"hello? I was just about to eat..."
(quiet and fast) "Hello sir or madam, would you like to be bothered tonight with some great offers?"
"What?"
"Well, today I'm offering you some extraordinary knives, great for the kitchen."
"Oh..."
*click*
Dinner time? whats that in the us? eh... who cares i just had dinner and i guess my dinner time is good enough. (norway calling) Hallo. Jeg vil bare klage pa at dere ringer meg privat nar jeg ikke er interessert... etc... etc... throw in some english to keep the attention up for a while and see how long i can keep it up. With free long distance (at work) keep the numbers cuming, i really need something to do while compiling Norw Blue
It would be so wrong to sign up info@ataconnect.org for spam...
Or else show up in a pair of overalls and a Day-Glo jacket with a jackhammer and cut off their phone lines under the pavement :-)
I know it's pushing the boundaries a little, but I'm a "take-no-prisoners" sort of person :-)
Actually, a law has already been in place for years that telemarketers (selling or soliciting ANYTHING) can not call after 8 PM your local time.
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
Zone Contact:
Fanger Communications
Robert Fanger
303 N. Alabama St., Ste. 250
Indianapolis, IN 46204
US
Phone: 317-955-9020
Email: rfanger@fangercom.com
Domain ID:D761595-LROR
Domain Name:ATACONNECT.ORG
there's another phone number or two, I can't find a robert fanger listed in indianapolis, closest match is:
3023 Wilderness Rd
Fort Wayne, IN
(260) 497-0266
Created On:13-Oct-1996 04:00:00 UTC
Last Updated On:23-Sep-2003 05:44:28 UTC
Expiration Date:12-Oct-2004 04:00:00 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:R63-LROR
Status:OK
Registrant ID:35266199-NSI
Registrant Name:Fanger Communications
Registrant Organization:Fanger Communications
Registrant Street1:238 S. Meridian St.
Registrant Street2:Ste. 210
Registrant City:Indianapolis
Registrant State/Province:IN
Registrant Postal Code:46225
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Email:rfanger@fangercom.com
Admin ID:35266199-NSI
Admin Name:Fanger Communications
Admin Organization:Fanger Communications
Admin Street1:238 S. Meridian St.
Admin Street2:Ste. 210
Admin City:Indianapolis
Admin State/Province:IN
Admin Postal Code:46225
Admin Country:US
Admin Email:rfanger@fangercom.com
Billing ID:35266199-NSI
Billing Name:Fanger Communications
Billing Organization:Fanger Communications
Billing Street1:238 S. Meridian St.
Billing Street2:Ste. 210
Billing City:Indianapolis
Billing State/Province:IN
Billing Postal Code:46225
Billing Country:US
Billing Email:rfanger@fangercom.com
Tech ID:35266199-NSI
Tech Name:Fanger Communications
Tech Organization:Fanger Communications
Tech Street1:238 S. Meridian St.
Tech Street2:Ste. 210
Tech City:Indianapolis
Tech State/Province:IN
Tech Postal Code:46225
Tech Country:US
Tech Email:rfanger@fangercom.com
Name Server:NS1.WEST-DATACENTER.NET
Name Server:NS2.WEST-DATACENTER.NET
consider this a request for datapull (ala alan ralsky)
on Robert Fanger of Indianapolis, IN.
PS I may drop by his office tomorrow to tell him how much I love him and the work he does.
oddly indiana has a DO NOT CALL list of it's own which has stood several appeals. C'mon rob at least police your own state!
Hang on, put some perspective here.
Nazi war criminals shoot people, torture people, rape people, and do so with no regard for human dignity.
Telemarketers just call you on the phone.
Get some sense into you
How full will the inbox be for timsearcy@ataconnect.org on Monday morning?
And with what?
I want to simply sell them the peace of mind of knowing they will not be called at home by annoying telemarketers. Of course, per existing FCC and FTC regulations, I will honor their request to be taken off of my list, apologize for any inconvenience, and let them know that it may take up to 90 days for their request to be processed. Of course I will then hope they have a nice day.
Do you guys see any harassment there?
Here's an even smarter way of going about it than last time:
PRETEND TO BE INTERESTED IN THEIR SERVICES
when you call them This time. Anyone who does this will leave a much longer message for them, tie up their line longer, and tie up the person(s) filtering through all the 'potential' customers. Last time they got called to death... this time they'll get called to death, slashdotted (hopefully for a Long time), and Long after they take their new number down... their staff will be busy having to listen to you if you pretend to be interested.
-Rich
There are ways to attack, and there are ways kill.
Just drop acid, already, and invent something better... or quit your whining.
You've got a screwed up set of priorities.
Well said.
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
The ones that call regarding Police fundraisers or support groups will start off sounding very official, like you are receiving a call from the Sheriff's dept about a serious matter. Then you find out they just want a "donation" and they are willing to send an "officer" to your business to PICK IT UP IN PERSON!.
Alot of businesses just immediately cave in and pay something, they think they will get harassed by the Police if they don't pay.
Once I got a very insistant "Police representative" that- when confronted with a "NO" from me regarding "donating" said: "Are you planning to do something illegal?"
???????
There was a recent investigative news story about Telemarketers in Chicago that showed that certain Fraternal Order of Police groups HAD actually hired independent Telemarketers to "raise money" for their group.
The Telemarketers kept about 90% of the money and employed ex-cons!
One of the Telemarketers that was doing "work" raising money for a Fire Dept's group employed a convicted Arsonist! Apparently it is illegal in Illinois to use ex-cons for Telemarketing work or something and of course the Police Dept claimed they knew nothing about any of it.
When I called the Chicago Police and asked if I should ever consider giving money to anyone representing the Police over the phone, I was told: "NO!"
It's not illegal though.
I like microcars
I've heard of something similar involving copying machine and laser printer supplies. The Federal Trade Commission has a good web page that describes the scam and its variations.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
I have several boxes sitting around idle, plenty of modems and I just signed up for SBC's unlimited plan.
.wav file when the phone picks up on the other end? To promote something totally annoying.
Is there any software out there I can use to autodial and play some silly
If this is possible, I can finally put that list of people who piss me off to use!
The mail box on this number is full... but the system let's you jump to all other mailboxes!
Listen to the message, go through the menu, hit 1 to access other mailboxes or you can use the company directory (Hint Hint) to leave messages for all your favorite ATA associates!
I believe the mailboxes are all 3 digit numbers, the number Dave Berry Posted is mailbox #104.
On the angle of selling them something, I can think of lots of worthless things I have that I might want to sell them. But where is it written that I can only phone them to sell them something? Hmmmm, you sure seem to think like a telemarketer, i.e. the phone is only for selling something.
I have news for you. There are many perfectly valid reasons to call someone. Merely knowing that others have a similar complaint does not take away my right to call.
In fact, if they could tell without having to call that you were not interested, they would not make the call.
Talk about twisted. You must be a telemarketer troll.
We have just given them the greatest tool in the history of mankind for them to be able to tell in advance that we are not interested. It is called the DO NOT CALL LIST.
I am opposed to the kind of mob behavior that caused the ATA to disconnect their phone line.
So are you opposed to the mob behavior of the telemarketers that would cause me to have to disconnect my phone line? Hypocrit.
Be honest now. If you called the ATA you weren't really trying to give them any information or state an opinion, you just wanted to inconvenience them. You were just happy for an opportunity to retaliate.
You nailed it in one. Absolutely right. The ATA has stated that I have an absolute right to do so. And no matter what the ATA says, I do have an absolute right to call them and complain and state opinions. Until MY calls become an issue by themselves, I am doing nothing wrong. By them or their members calling me, and them stating public opinions on the matter of their members calling me, I have the right to call them back.
If I called you, and then you gave me a return phone call, I would have a pretty hard time arguing that your one return call constituted harassment.
I personally know an individual (a dentist) who has successfully used telemarketing. He employs one woman who works from home cold-calling people to get their teeth cleaned. Telemarketing has been the most successful method of getting new patients that he has ever tried. Additionally, the woman doing the job benefits from well paying at-home employment.
And if they have the right to call me. Then I have the right to call them. It works both ways. The telephone is for communication. Not just for sales. And I have something I want to communicate. They are required under US Law (I used it once against a local newspaper, sorry I don't know the exact chapter and verse offhand) to
- Maintain their own do not call list.
- Have a written policy on maintaining the list.
- Add me to the list upon request.
- Give me WRITTEN CONFIRMATION that I am on the list.
- Provide me a written copy of their policy on maintaining their list.
If a local business calls me and does not do the above, then I will see them in court.I would suggest to anyone who is called by a local business such as this dentist to agressively pursue the above action. Start by sending them a registered mail, signature required, return receipt. In your letter, state the exact laws that entitles you to written confirmation that you are on their own list, and written copy of their policy for maintaining the list. If they fail to respond, you have a direct cause of action against them. (I have forgotten the amount.) You can find this at any good anti-telemarketing web site. That's how I did it.
With my local newspaper experience, it is only too bad that I did not get $500. Instead, they opted to never EVER call me EVER again. If they call me again before 2007, I can and will sue them.
There is something else here. If this dentist does not already have in place (1) a do not call list that people can request to be added to and (2) a written policy on maintaining the list, then they are already breaking US law. If anyone can identify this dentist and whether he is in compliance with all telemarketing laws, this would be useful to know.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
toneloc
http://web.textfiles.com/software/toneloc.txt
Check out this blurb: http://www.arentfox.com/publications/alerts/alerts 2003/alert2003-10-03ravitz.html
If you call them, you are establishing a relationship with them, allowing them to call you, even if you are on the don't call list.
/. for passing this on.
This leads me to conclude that Dave Barry is actually working for them, and so is
144l. ph34r my 133t l3g4l 5k1lz!
In a solid gold bed with ivory posts.
With sheets made from human skin.
Pillows stuffed with the feathers of the golden eagle.
And a quilt filled with panda fur.
Osama bin Laden serves drinks and Saddam Hussein turns over the tv and changes the cd/dvd.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
And? your point is? are you going to say that I do not have a Constitutional right to call them and tell them that I think they suck and that they need to go find an honest job?
The bad thing about toll-free numbers, and special-toll numbers (1-800, 1-888, 1-900, etc. in the U.S.) is that the dialing number is always passed to the terminating equipment. Nothing[1] you can do can block this number from being delivered.
But with a normal number (1-317-ppp-nnnn), it is possible to block your number. Use calling ID suppression (*67 or whatever your CLASS activation code is) before dialing this number, so they can't claim "prior business relationship".
the AC
[1] Its possible to make calls without a traceable ID, but its difficult and requires an SS7 connection
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
I personally know an individual (a dentist) who has successfully used telemarketing. He employs one woman who works from home cold-calling people to get their teeth cleaned. Telemarketing has been the most successful method of getting new patients that he has ever tried. Additionally, the woman doing the job benefits from well paying at-home employment.
I think you've missed an important point here. When people are calling the ATA, the telphone company makes money out of the calls. So you see, someone is making money out of it and in your warped little mind that excuses everything. Happy now?
and I dunno that I want to harass someone who just works there
Then don't call to harass. Call for a legitimate purpose. One legitimate purpose would be to sell them something that you own. Clearly since they work at a telemarketing organization, they must believe deeply in your right to call them.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
In your precedent reply regarding the very same topic here you suggest people just to hang up the phone.
...wait a minute ! Now the marketing company is making me LOSE money !
Now while this SEEMS to be a solution, what about telemarketers calling you incessantly ? Maybe company A has called today, but not B neither C and so on until they even call you from Nigeria. You spend all the day screening phone calls ? I think not. What if your answering machines starts deleting old messages (including good ones) to make room for new spam ? What if it doesn't roll over so there is no more room for good calls ?
OH but we can solve this, I'll hire you to screen all my calls, I'll pay $1 hour for this
I for one, welcome our new ... oh forget it.
Once again, Dave Barry manages to provide a valuable public service while simultaneously giving me cause to bust out laughing. Gotta love it.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Doesn't that mean we'd have to invade them on a flimsy pretense?
:)
Oh wait.
I don't think anyone denies that telemarketing can be effective from a marketing standpoint, or that it generates jobs. That alone isn't enough to justify an activity. The thing is, most dentists who want to drum up business do so by placing adds in yellowpages, on TV, radio or in newspapers. These may yield less customers per dollar spent, but it is a fairer way to reach people - these are all places where people have agreed to receive advertising, because it helps pay for the medium. When someone uses my phone to advertise to me, they are effectively abusing a loophole in the phone system in order to advertise to me at my expense. <<insert obvious spam analogy here>>
The fact that Dave Barry is encouraging people to abuse the same loophole to "harass" telemarketers is precisely his ironic point.
Nice troll. At first I thought maybe it was a bit obvious, but I can't argue with the results! Do you mind if I copy and paste this in future? Thanks.
OK, here is what I do, and it makes things really fun. Instead of being intensely angry I get off the line laughing and laughing. They almost always ask for my wife, so I say "just a moment I'll see if she is available", then I'll hold the phone away from my mouth and yell really loudly one of the following things (and others when the mood strikes):
1) Hey honey, are you done draining that puss yet?
2) Hey honey, are you done putting your damn your teeth in yet?
3) Hey honey, are you done picking those nasty scabs yet?
Then I get back on the phone and say "I'm sorry, she's 'busy draining some puss' (substitute favorite phrase here) right now".
I usually just get absolute silence on the other end, although every so often I'll get a good laugh out of the guy on the other end on the phone also.
Wheeeeeeeeee! It's soooooo fun.
/me prepares a very large document with little content
Using Jay computer Services Zip and Area Code Lookup, I was able to get the following information:
Area Code
317
Exchange
816
City
CARMEL
State
IN
FIPS Code
18057
Wow. The ATA's website is down, and their phones, too! He's better than Slashdot!
The thing about the Constitution is that we have to take the bad with the good. Notwithstanding the crap that Ashcroft has been trying to pass recently, the Constitution has done well for us for a long time. Yeah - it sucks that free speech rights were used to potentially quash the list but -- the telemarketers might be right. Now, just like everyone else, I hate getting calls at dinner, but why should Amway or a mortgage company not be allowed to call me but the ACLU or the police benevolent association can? What needs to happen is that the do not call registry be revamped to include your phone number as well as what types of call you don't want to receieve. This way, the telemarketers can't cry free speech and equal protection since it's the individual making the choice -- not the government.
When I call the ATA, I have something to sell them. I'll offer to sell them my home phone number. I figure it's worth $10,000 or so.
Do you have a problem with that? Does that make it legit because I have something to sell them? Please get a clue.
The thing that makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside is the fact that Dave Barry can handle a slashdotting no problem, but the ATAcrumbled under the power of a double force tag team slashdotting and barry-bashing.
What a great way to start the day!
A comprehensive list of phone numbers to telemarketing call centers
I am sure they want to talk to people, as lonely as they must be.
Let's start from the top? I'll start from the top myself, and I'll have my fax machine start from the bottom.
Serious, overbooking is not all that bad. If you scream loud enough, you (a) get a night in a nice, five-stars hotel with expenses paid or (b) get an executive-class or first-class upgrade or (c) they toss somebody else and you can get your flight.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
Registrant:
Fanger, Robert (ATACONNECT-DOM)
Fanger Communications
238 S. Meridian St.
Ste. 210
Indianapolis, IN 46225
US
Domain Name: ATACONNECT.ORG
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Fanger, Robert (DUMHRQNOBI) rfanger@fangercom.com
Fanger Communications
238 S. Meridian St.
Ste. 210
Indianapolis, IN 46225
US
317-636-7635
Record expires on 12-Oct-2004.
Record created on 08-Sep-2002.
Database last updated on 5-Oct-2003 11:36:03 EDT.
Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.WEST-DATACENTER.NET 69.36.161.11
NS2.WEST-DATACENTER.NET 69.36.161.12
It shouldn't be to difficult from here to try http://www.switchboard.com/ to locate his home number.
HTH
You have fallen into the same logical falsehood as so many people do. An analogy is an argumentative tool to draw parallels for one specific aspect, not a complete comparison at all levels. The analogy was that "I was just doing my job" is not an excuse for doing something bad. That the level of "badness" is different is irrelevant to the argument. The analogy is valid for the purpose it was used.
Not a home address, but still useful.
Kathleen Thompson
Bank One, SVP Marketing
Wilmington, DE
201 North Walnut St.
Wilmington DE, 19801
DE1-1153
Kathleen_b_thompson@bankone.com
302-282-3386
In america, telemarketers get calls from YOU!
When you pick up the phone to call ATA, what you are doing is harassment.
Only if you're harassing them. If you call them up and give them perfectly valid feedback, what are they going to do? "Uhhh.. yes, your honor. The defendant called us to let us know how much he hates it when he gets calls from us that he didn't ask for and has asked to have stopped on several occasions. He's a criminal!".
In fact, if they could tell without having to call that you were not interested, they would not make the call.
THAT is probably one of the biggest loads of horseshit I've seen posted on Slashdot in awhile. Part of selling cold is overcoming people's objections to something they hadn't actively sought before. They know that the overwhelming majority of people want nothing to do with the product - it's why they didn't seek it out to begin with. If they knew ahead of time who did and who didn't want the product, the only thing they would do is start ranking people by the likelihood of a purchase so they could target the victims better.
Don't give me shit about them just doing their jobs. My grandmother is 86 years old and she's always yelling at these bastards because they keep calling and trying to sell her shit and she keeps telling them to leave her alone. She just wants to be left alone, she doesn't need her windows replaced because she doesn't own a house. She doesn't need a new vaccuum cleaner. I don't care if they're "just doing their jobs" - they're doing it at her and my great inconvenience, and that's NOT acceptable.
I don't CARE if 2 million telemarketers get booted to the street. They almost all get paid shit anyway and are shoveled pretty much the same benefits as McDonalds' burger-flippers. They'll just fill other service positions that pay the same paltry amount but don't irritate people. If 2 million telemarketers lose their jobs, it's BECAUSE THE INDUSTRY DOESN'T HAVE A CUSTOMER BASE. Imagine that... an industry being allowed to die off because nobody wants to patronize it. What a novel idea in this country - fair competition. The only reason telemarketers have been allowed to survive this long is because they don't NEED to establish a customer base by providing a quality product or service, they just need to keep beating random people over the head and forcing almost everyone to be the customer base.
Long live the DNC list! The only complaints I have are that I can't sign up to avoid slimy politicians, guilt-inducing "charities", and religious nutjobs.
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
> When you pick up the phone to call ATA
There are legitimate reasons for using the telephone other than sales. When I called the ATA, I did it to express my views and concerns. I called the appropriate telephone number: the public number of the relevant industry trade group.
So tell me again, exactly what did I do wrong?
My brother, who is in sales himself, made a recording to answer the phone. It's a long recording that starts out, "Hello?" then a 5-second pause, "Hi," then every ten seconds it just said "Uh huh." It would continue that for 20 minutes. By then, even the densest telemarketer would get the idea.
When he gets door-to-door salesmen, he invites them in and says, "Man, I'm glad you dropped by! I've had a tough time lately. I got laid off, my wife left me, and, you know, I just need someone to talk to." He says that it takes about 30 seconds and they're eager to leave.
I can't wait until they figure out how to telemarket via Voice-over-IP!
I can see it now...Futurama Season 17 Episode 21 (you know, after Microsoft buys Fox, MicroFox tries to incorporate Futurama into its 'hip' image by bringing it back to life in the year 2018 when two-dimensional cartoons are considered barbaric):
Leela: "Didn't you have telemarketers in the twentieth century?"
Fry: "Well, sure, but not via VoIP. Only on TV and radio...and in magazines...and on the phone, and in movies, and at ballgames, and on MSN Messenger, and on buses, and door-to-door salesmen, and milk cartons, and T-shirts, and bananas, and written in the sky. But not via VoIP, no sirree."
Thomas Rocca, Kennesaw, GA
Remember, folks, in Kennesaw, Georgia, you're legally required to own and maintain a gun. So be careful. Rocca might bust a cap on yo' ass.
I want to use one of those automated answering machines for routing calls, and proclaim it to be a digital protection scheme against telemarketers.
Options provided are:
1 - for all callers who are not telemarketers, solicitors, etc and the call is then allowed to ring my phone, and
2- for all telemarketers, solicitors, etc. who are disconnected without allowing a ring to be sent to my phone.
If a telemarketer selects 1, they are then in violation of the DMCA for circumventing my protection scheme, and I can start subpoenaing their records without a judge's siganture, right! Damn, I think I just screwed up my chances on this patent.
MM
An analogy with the Nazis draws an emotional parallel. Not a logical one.
The reason it doesn't work is they refresh their lists constantly. "Taking you off their list" means that particular telemarketer will cross your name off of the list they use for that particular client. The same telemarketer could call you an hour later for a different client. A few telemarketing firms are a bit more moral and actually cross your name off their list for all their clients. That's great, right up until they renew their list the next week. Then you are back on their list and the cycle continues.
A more effective approach is to ask them to put you on their do not call list. Each telemarketing firm is required to keep and use a do not call list. Unscrupulous telemarketing busnesses can call you anyway, but are subject to FCC fines, etc. After a few of these calls, you will see a reduction in the number of solicitous calls. It won't eliminate them, but it does help.
I still don't see how a National Do Not Call list violates their free speech rights. Implicit in the right of free speech is the right to walk away and not listen. Since they are calling us, a mandatory do not call list (national or otherwise) is our only real way of refusing to listen to their speech.
This is just one more example that 2001-2010 should be known as the "SHUT UP" Decade.
Cheers,
I.V.
"These laws they're passing won't even compile anymore, let alone execute." - anon
I would suggest using google with this in the search box "Phone: (" site:www.ataconnect.org i.e. use This url. This would allow one to knock all their chapters and members off the POTS network.
Because nobody really wants to opt in for unrestricted promotions, only specific alerts like a given item on sale. Better just extend current junk fax laws to e-mail, paper mail and phone calls. In the other words, recognize that people's time has value, not just paper and toner.
you people are idiots.
i hate TMs as much as any of you but i haven't gotten a single call since Oct. 1.
for now the TMs are voluntarily honoring the DNC list.
so we should cut them *some* slack.
of course the first TM one that calls me is gonna really catch hell.
Forward your home phone to that number during dinner. Your friends will know to call you back later and the telemarketers will be calling themselves! :)
That's not true! If someone had answered I would have tried to sell them a penis enhancer.
what are the odds they forget to renew?
or that someone snaps up the domain for satire purposes, mostly the same, but subtly altered?
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Thomas Rocca, (770) 429-1956, 3840 Jiles Rd NW, Kennesaw, GA 30144 Yahoo! Maps MapQuest Thanks Google!
I wonder how they'd like a delivery of a ton of manure to their front door (this IS Indiana, after all..)?
today is spelling optional day.
It'll be a year befoe we know. Unless I missed a year somewhere...
In related news, the "Dave Barry Effect", strangely similar to the "SlashDot Effect" has also stricken the ATA's home webpage, which refuses to load for many people who have it tagged to reload every few seconds. It wasn't even mentioned in the slashdot summary of the article, so apparently this was done by Barry's reader, or a few slashdot readers broke the rules and RTFA to get the addresss, which is:
http://www.ataconnect.org/
-- If it ain't broke - overclock it more.
I called Rocca and asked him to hold for an important message. But its his home phone where his family lives so I felt like I sunk to his level.
Is it london bridge or tower bridge?
I've got ne word for you.
:)
"Collect"
The real purpose of calling the number is to annoy the telemarketers. Calling collect makes it even more annoying and it saves you from getting charged for the call.
The nastier the job is, the more turnover the companies will have, the more they'll have to spend on training, the lower their response rates will be due to inexperienced staff, and, hopefully, the higher wages they'll have to pay.
Can someone show me just where in the Bill of Rights it talks about Corporations?
In all the law and criminal justice classes I have been taking these past 2 years, I always got the impression that the Constitution and, more specifically, the Bill of Rights defined:
the limits that the Government can infringe on the Pre-existing rights of Human Beings
Corporations are entities created by governments, and therefore have only the rights granted to them by those governments.
Now point me to a link that proves me wrong --
And if you're amusing and polite, most of the operators will likely enjoy the call. The woman who I dealt with when I called the number for Anne Murray's greatest hits to complain that Anne Murray has never had any hits, let alone anything great, said that I was her favorite call in several years of working there.
Of course, I also got legal threats when I had my computer autodial a collection firm after my ex-roommate. They called me for weeks, every hour or two. Their claim was "it's the computer, and I can't do anything about it". So I set my computer to dial them every 10 minutes (I worked at home at the time), and I'd kick open a speakerphone connection. The manager just refused to see that there was a parallel between our call tactics and said I was "harassing" them, since I didn't have business with them. The point that my ex-roommate had since moved, and the number they were calling was in my name was okay however. Heh. Every ten minutes most of the day for three days: "Hi, have you taken my number off your call list?"
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
and is listed as such here. The Rocca number appears to work. It has caller ID on it, which gives you the option to hit a number to record your name, then goes and tries to ring him, then comes back and allows you to record a message.
Why not call the DMA? At their site they list their phone numbers as New York: 212.768.7277 and Washington, D.C.: 202.955.5030. There are fax numbers there as well, but junk faxes are probably illegal.
How about a device on your phone line that immediately answered the call and gave the caller something like this:
:-)
"Hello, Press 1 to enter the line pin number and immediately ring the home phone, or press 2 to enter a valid VISA number which we will charge $50 if we subsequently consider your call to be unsolicited commercial marketing."
You could just use the standard credit card validation algorithm, it's not like you'd need a real time link to a bank or anything
Now that we have "taken out" the telemarketers via the slashdot effect I have often thought we should have a link on the main page for the fraud/spammer of the day that we can click to let them know we do not approve of their methods. For example, I have been getting hundreds of "bounced" emails to my domain from this site's advancedprescription.info attempt to spam people and forge my domains return address. Their ISP says they have "warned them" to stop but the ISP is not shutting down the domain... Can we?
--- Liberty in our Lifetime
I have tried to call the number several times and it seemed to be busy every time I dialed. My best guess is that tons of people are calling them at the same time.
1. The ethics of this:
Hmmm. The golden rule . . . do unto others. I don't think that applies much to a marketing association, but I guess I'd apply it to the notion of calling individuals at home.
2. It's who you do business with:
Interestingly enough, I have two phone companies.
One is Cox Communications. Within a couple of days of getting that phone number, I was beseiged with telemarketers and it has never let up.
I've also got a number from Sprint. I've had that number for a couple of years. Not a single telemarketing call.
3. A rant
So I call Qwest to get a home phone number. They generously offer to charge me only $3 or $4 per month to NOT publish my phone number.
Okay.
Can you say ex-tor-tion?
I come to your store and generously offer to charge you only $500 per month to NOT set your store on fire.
It's a great business plan: pay me to not do something. Sort of like a SCO license, I guess.
"When I grow up, I'll be stable."
This happened about two years ago:
You may have seen a gizmo called a "TeleZapper" advertised on late-night TV, which purports to scare telemarketers away. Understanding its operation requires just a little familiarity with telemarketing technology, which I'll attempt to distill here: the telemarketing firm has a system called an "autodialer" which works sequentially through a list of phone numbers in a marketing database. After dialing a number, the system listens for one of three things: a person's voice, in which case the system then either plays a prerecorded sales pitch or connects an unfortunate person working as an automaton to deliver an "interactive" sales pitch (this is why sometimes you answer your phone and get a pause followed by a telemarketer asking "Hello?" even though you're the one answering the phone); a fax tone, in which case the system might either deliver a fax advertisement, or remove the phone number from the database and move on to the next in the list; or it might hear what's called a "SIT tone," which is that series of three ascending beeps you hear when you've dialed a disconnected number...such numbers are of course of no value to the telemarketing firm, so upon hearing this, the system will delete the number from the database and move on. What the TeleZapper does is intercept incoming calls, play a SIT tone, then (if they don't disconnect, as an autodialer would) put the call through to your actual telephone. I've heard one can achieve much of the same effect simply by putting the SIT tone at the start of their answering machine message...I had a WAV file of the tone on my computer somewhere, and just never got around to doing that.
Anyway, with the bulk of the techno-babble out of the way...
It was around noon on a Saturday that I received one of those delightful prerecorded sales calls. But this one was different. Normally, telemarketers block their phone number from Caller ID, so if one subscribes to that service they'll only see "Unknown" when such a call arrives. For some reason, this one didn't...my phone displayed the number from which the autodialer was working. That's odd.
Normally I'd shrug and go back to whatever I was doing. But I was just getting over the flu, stuck at home on a rainy Saturday, bored to tears. I just had to try something. Something evil.
I selected the "Call Log" option on my phone, which brought up the last incoming number...the autodialer...then pressed "Dial." Of course, the number was busy...the autodialer was inflicting its annoying sales pitch on someone else at the moment, and would be doing that all day. And even if it wasn't, the autodialer isn't programmed to answer an incoming call. But...but...if I could time my call just right, I'd finish dialing just as the autodialer is picking up to make its next call. As I said, I'm stuck at home, nothing to do...so...hang up, redial, busy. Hang up, redial, busy. Lather, rinse, repeat. Then, after only about a minute of this...hang up, redial, sound of autodialer trying to dial the next number in its database! I managed to intercept it!
Like a dog that finally catches up with the rabbit, I wasn't exactly sure what to do with it now. I cleared my throat. Since this wasn't a SIT tone, nor a fax beep, the autodialer interpreted this as a voice "answering" the phone and delivered its prerecorded sales pitch. Feh.
When it got to the end of the recording, it then attempted to drop the line and dial the next number. However, in another one of those phone technicalities, this won't work because I had initiated the call; only I can drop the line. Due to the chance timing, the autodialer had answered my call. So I'm still connected to the autodialer, and hear it try to dial the next number, blissfully unaware that it doesn't even have a dial tone.
So I try another experiment. Though I'm still a bit scratchy with a sore throat, I whistle my best approximation of the ascending SIT tone. And immediately, the autodialer tries to drop the line and proceed with an
It's no good - these guys are on the do not call list.
The biggest stupidity of this whole situation is this: telemarketters want to call people on the do not call list. That means that there are a lot of people out there who have signed up for the list, but STILL buy stuff from companies who phone them.
Perhaps we should have a voluntary DNC list that has penalities against people who are signed up but continue to reward bad behaviour with their custom. Eventually all the fools would be educated, and the telemarketters would realise their is no point calling people on the list.
You haven't sunk to his level because you aren't really selling something. What you are doing is expressing your opinion, in an ironic way, that how they conduct business is wrong.
- Chairman: Thomas Rocca, Interactive Response Technologies, Kennesaw, GA
- Vice-Chairman: Lisa DeFalco, TPG Telemanagement, Yardley, PA
- Treasurer: Andrew Miller, Apac, Omaha, NE
- Secretary: Kathryn Barber, Barber Consulting, Atlantic Highlands, NJ
- Immediate Past Chairman: Bill Miklas, InfoUSA, Omaha, NE
- Director: Stuart Discount, Tele-Response Center Inc., Philadelphia, PA
- Director: Benjamin Harris, Unicall International, Fairlawn, OH
- Director: Connie Richardson, West/Dakotah Direct II, Spokane, WA
- Director: Gil Stallings, Consultant, Hackensack, NJ
- Director: Kathleen Thompson, Bank One, Wilmington, DE
- Director: Mark Williams, MBNA, Wilmington, DE
ManagementSo the only differentiating factor between harassment and selling is the goal of the behavior, and, in the case of selling, the ends justifies the means.
In fact, you would almost certainly (with few exceptions) not be calling them unless you knew that thousands of your peers would also be calling. You hope that your actions will cause problems for the ATA. You are participating in mob behavior.So if all the telemarketers banded together to form a political action organization, would they be a mob? If so, would their mobness any more inculpate them than it does us, or does the intent to sell trump everything?
who are those slashdot people? they swept over like Mongol-Tartars.
Mail? Put "slashdot" in the subject to pass the spam filters.
Put the ATA's number on all the cards, flyers and promotional material you can. Get the telemarketers to call them!
Who knows other telemarketing associations?
And of course their phone numbers. Do them too.
The outrageous behavior you describe seems very similar to the thinking of spammers.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
I used to feel bad about giving telemarketers a hard time, but then I came to a realization: if we make their lives a living hell, they won't want to work as telemarketers anymore. If we are nice to them, they will enjoy (or at least tolerate) their jobs, and they will keep doing what they are doing. When their job becomes a source of major stress in their lives, they will hopefully end up quitting and then there will be one less telemarketer in the world.
Sure, it's kinda mean to fuck with them, but it's part of their job and it comes with the territory. It's up to them to determine if they are getting paid enough to deal with shit from angry people all day. And judging by the high turnover rate at call centers and telemarketing companies, my guess is that they definitely don't make enough money to deal with us.
So feel free to abuse telemarketers, they've been doing it to us for years.
Thanks for the clarification! Now I know...
"This food is problematic."
Wait until people are freely able to move their phone number between land lines and cells. The possibility is not there yet, but is getting closer - witness some of the bells allowing transfer of cell phone number between services now.
Your number will not then be in a "non-landline" exchange, and you will start getting as many unwanted calls as the rest of us.
-R-
Look ma, I'm a
True story: The local fish-wrapper was calling my house twice a week for at least 3 months. The paper's name showed up on CNID, so it was easy to let 'em go to voicemail, but it was annoying. So I tried *69 one time and got "The number that last called you cannot be reached". Next step, I dialed the number shown and sure enough, I got through. I said "I'd really appreciate it if you would stop calling me." The rep took my number and then asked "Would you like this number to be blocked for 3 months, 6 months or a year?" "How about forever?" "A year it is. Thank you for calling."
Mail? Put "slashdot" in the subject to pass the spam filters.
Find a payphone and dial down the center. Sort of hard to get slapped for 2k on a public phone
For those wondering: This area code is located in Indianapolis. I find that ironic since the State of Indiana has had their own do-not call list for over a year now. I also find it exciting; since the number is local for me, I can call them all the time!
What?
Ping statistics for www.ataconnect.org
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms
Hmmm...
SCO (noun.)- A Slimy Corporate Ogre. Often seeks free money.
- Follow the links into the site as deep as you can go. Maintain a list of all the links you find. Hit them all one-by-one and repeat. Not only drive up the bandwidth, but if you're lucky (not likely, but could happen) you will start hitting disk.
- Find every link to submit information (e-mail, feedback, etc.) and submit your two cents. In a very, very long way. With attachments... Matrix trailers perhaps? And multiple copies of the script of Monty Python and the Holy Grail (make sure you quote a line so as to make it relevant). This will certainly hit disk. Heat those puppies up, see if they invested in RAID.
- As another mentioned, fax them. Again, submit info (request to be removed from calling list, inform of a product you are selling, etc.) to make it relevant. But do it on black paper with white lettering. One letter per page. Hmm... how many pages can a fax be?
I'd love to comment on their ethics page but the dang thing just won't load.SQUEAK, the Death of Rats explained.
Hmm...might be time to whip up a sound file of white noise, set it to loop, and accidentally leave the phone near the speakers (having made use of certain phone numbers first).
For those of us in the United States may wish to remember that MANY CELL PHONES HAVE FREE LONG DISTANCE. Not that I would suggest we ab^h^huse that little detail.
What's the difference between an orange?
And it's MUCH better now.
----www.ataconnect.org PING Statistics----
11 packets transmitted, 11 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 137/147/158
Did his wife accuse him of anger mangaemnt problems -- just to PISS HIM OFF!! ?
"Mailbox is full. To disconnect press 9." Looks like I'll have to live to harass a telemarketer another day.
See subject
The designated person could print Dave Barry's article as a pdf, and email it to the appropriate ATA employee. This would resolve the concern they announced after the last article.
Just in case they don't have a pdf reader, the designaged person could open it up in the gimp and save it as a .bmp, then email it. Remember to render it at sufficient resolution that it is easily readable.
Take email server rejections on "too large attachment" into account when you render the .pdf as a bmp. An 8.5x11 bmp, at full color will yield the following file sizes at the following resolutions.
24dpi ~.5M
34dpi ~1M
76dpi ~5M
107dpi ~10M
600dpi ~300M
If you are not the designated person, don't send the email. Don't send the email in many different file sizes to see where the ATA's email server borks. Don't send the email to every ATA email address you can find. Don't send the email more than once.
From their previous complaint, I'm sure the ATA would be grateful for such a service.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
Nothing[1] you can do can block this number from being delivered.
Use a payphone and/or some other public phone.
Nazi war criminals were executed.
You verbally abuse the telemarketers.
That particular idiom really bothers me. The fact is, I am not at all sorry that I'm not interested in listening to a sales pitch while the Fettucini Robusto curdles on the serving chalice. I am not sorry that I have to rebuff the caller. I am not sorry that the caller will not make his/her shift quota. <peewee>I'm not sorry!</peewee>
The general idiom of expressing questions with the expectation of a negative answer ("You wouldn't by chance have...?") is a close second, and both seem to have descended from colloquial English (the British version) common discourse, which presupposes disappointment of the initiator, that he may be "surprised" by the beneficial outcome. "I'm sorry, but..." "Oh, not at all!"
Don't even get me started on "Thanks, anyway"...
Mail? Put "slashdot" in the subject to pass the spam filters.
Just use your prepaid calling card to get the anonymity you desire without being blocked.
Does this method also work with mormons at the front door?
oh wait...
never mind. Saying something like that would just give you another reason to "convert" you.
-Grump
Is it true that more people vote for the winner of American Idol, than vote for the president? -Ali G.
Everyone has to get on one of thoes nice free (or almost) VoIP sites to call them. That way the call quality to so bad they cant understand you anyways, the call is free for you. And we can mess with the Cali PUC at the same time.
Come on people, we are slashdot, we must mess with as many groups as we can at the same time.
PS..Who has the #'s for SCO?
snowulf.com
For more practical answers on what to do, Junkbusters has lots of good advice. In particluar, their Anti-telemarketing script works wonders.
Another one of the suggestions that is particularly effective is to simply to screen all of your incoming calls. I use a combination of an answering machine (actually my computer running PMFax Pro) with a SIT tone leader and Caller-id. Occationally, a telemarketter won't get the hint and will call every day until I resort to the script, but that's rare these days.
Since I started using these techniques, telemarketting calls have gone from five or six a day to once a month.
Signatures are a waste of bandwi (buffering...)
I have a feeling Mr. Searcy will be scratching his head trying to figure out who all these people are and why they're all sending goatse links.
for ((i=0;i100000000;i++)); do
echo "Bugger off" | mail root@ataconnect.org
done
Easy way to get rid of telemarketers:
Force legislation so that the phone companies are forced to charge telemarketers the same connect fees/per minute rate as they do every other Joe Schmo. That way it becomes economically unfeasible to call every single person in the US to solicit business but if they really wanted to use their 'freedom of speech', they can.
I have the same idea for junk mailers using the Post Office, charge them the same fees as Joe Schmo has to..... I'm sure it will save more than a few trees.
> It's no good - these guys are on the do not call list.
The news reported last week that 11 telemarketing execs' names were indeed on the do-not-call list. When asked about it one said she just didn't like to get that kind of calls at home...
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
It seems that some of the DMA and ATA execs don't want to receive calls
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
If you have property and have posted a no trespassing sign, uninvited/expected people are expected to stay off of your property. To me, the no call list is the same thing. A landline is an access point to your personal space, so being on a do not call list is the same as posting a no trespassing sign. This has nothing to do with free speach, it is about an individuals right to be left alone on his on property.
Guess what telemarketers, not too many years ago I worked for fat biz's in and around Michigan's little tech corridor. I did alot of special projects, first for a few years contracting thru Interim Technologies, switching companies every 9 to 18 months, then as an outside consultant for a now dead ISP. Tech doesn't have a huge stronghold here in MI, and the past 3-5 years have done quite a bit of damage, including lost jobs and closed businesses of course. But new opportunities have opened for smaller, leaner companies; for example trading that large office space for a SOHO combined with on-site service calls. Come up with something that works within the new rules and the new times, because your fat biz time is over.
Jonah Hex
Horror & SciFi Erotic Nudes
Seriously, how often do you people actually get telemarketers calling ? I have to assume this is an american thing, because over here in tiny little New Zealand, I have received ooh.. two or three unsolicited telemarketing calls in the 10 years or so that I've had a landline phone (have two phone lines too), and never on my cellphone.
Obviously the US has quite a problem with them, but what are other countries like ?
ANI - Automatic Number Identification - is a service which the phone company offers to businesses. Most businesses with toll-free or 900- numbers make use of it.
HOWEVER, it does *not* have to be tied to a 8xx or 900 prefix in order to function. TPC _always_ knowns the number from which you called (*67 notwithstanding), and will give or not give the customer that number based solely on how much money the customer is paying.
If you're not living on the edge, you're just taking up space!
That sounds like a good idea, until you realize that one of their questions might involve a verbal contract. Example:
TELEMARKETER: So, sir, can I send you the free one month trail of You're A Sucker magazine, with no obligation for 30 days, and after that a cost of only $89.99 a year?
RECORDING: Uh-huh.
TELEMARKETER: That's wonderful! Can I confirm that your address is %%ADDRESSS%%?
RECORDING: Uh-huh.
TELEMARKETER: Thank you. Now would you like to receive a 10% discount by paying for your first year right now over the phone?
RECORDING: (silence)
TELEMARKETER: Or would you like to receive a bill for the full $89.99 after 30 days?
RECORDING: Uh-huh.
Maybe a better option would be a "Hmmm...." every so often. Maybe even better would, with the help of some friends/babies, go something like:
"Hello?....Hi....Hey listen the baby is screaming right now, can you hold on for a second?....Ok now what were you saying?....No, wait, I forgot, who are you calling for again?....Oh there is somebody at the door, can you hold on for another second?...."
and repeat ad nauseum (and remember that the telemarketers would probably have a much stronger stomach for that stuff that you realize...)
Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'
When I lived in Southern California, I wanted to complain about a mortgage company to the Better Business Bureau. Unfortunately, there isn't a BBB office in SoCal. So, I ended up calling the one in Bakersfield (after trying Sacramento first) and was told that I couldn't complain to that office. They were out of my jurisdiction. However, they were happy to supply a 900 number for me to call and complain to. Only $3.95/min. I told the guy, "Then, I'd like to complain about the Better Business Bureau to the Better Business Bureau."
Jory
I've never seen a picture of Dave Barry, but he must be really fat - why else would he have it in for low-flow toilets?
All I know is that they save me significant $ on my water bill, are quieter, and operate more reliably than my old crappy toilets.
But then again, if I was pooping out huge bricks, well, it might be harder to flush 'em in a low-flo.
Wouldn't it be a shame if this ended up in a few hundred usenat posts:
Tim Searcy
Executive Director
tim@ataconnect.org
Bill Morris
Finance Director
bill@ataconnect.org
Lynne McCauley
Director of Member Services
lynne@ataconnect.org
Mitchell Roth
Government Affairs Counsel
mitch@ataconnect.org
Brad Rateike
Manager of Member Services
brad@ataconnect.org
Jason Perry
Marketing Manager
jason@ataconnect.org
Karl Jacobs
Manager of Special Projects
kjacobs@ataconnect.org
Robert Fanger
Manager of IT Systems
bobf@ataconnect.org
__ Someday, but not this morning, I'll finally learn to use the preview button.
In fact, for any argument involving claims of "I was just doing my job" (or following orders), the Nazis are the most famous and clear demonstration that such a claim is not a valid excuse, and therefore the Nazi analogy is probably the best one regardless of the emotional attachments.
There seems to be two extreme falsehoods when using Nazis, those who use it as an insult without demonstrating any equivalence for analogy, and those who assume that any comparison to Nazis is invalid on its face because it envokes emotions. Both are falsehoods. Legitimate analogies using Nazis do exist, including this one.
Here's how I handle these jackasses. I got a call last week, someone wanted me to change my local telephone service. I talked to the caller for ten or so minutes and then asked her to hold while I looked for my phone bill. I read another 5 or 6 pages in the book she had interrupted and then picked up the phone and said I couldn't find the bill. We arranged that she would call the next day. The next day I told her that I would have to ask my wife to find the bill and could she call the next day. Etc, etc. She called for four days in a row until I got tired of playing with her.
Just be creative and keep them on the phone as long as possible. Ask them to call back. Put them on hold. Tell them your spouse wants to hear this. Whatever it takes. If we all did this, they would all go out of business in weeks.
You're a genius!!!
Where're the mods??
for him each time. "Yes, I'm trying to reach Tim Searcy, please tell him blah blah blah"
I got a call from DirectTV two weeks ago.
The lady said that they missed having me as a customer and wanted to give me an opportunity to sign up again. I asked if her system said how long ago I was a customer, and she said it didn't.
I said, "well it was over two years ago, and I'm on the national do-not-call list, so this is an $11,000 violation for you."
She got off the line in about three seconds.
I thought it was fun because she didn't seem to realize it hadn't gone into effect yet, but I did fell slightly bad as well.
It gave me the idea that with all the legal uncertainty about the list, I will now carefully get the name of the firm, number, and name of the individual on the phone, then tell them I'm taking them to small claims for $11000.
If enough people say things like this and follow through, they won't take a chance of calling anyone on that list.
You are my hero! Couldn't have put it better myself.
Just curious...
As I understand it, if you run a "toll free" number you actaully pay the toll charges. I think it is a flat rate discounted to something, but I don't know what exactly. So, how much do you think all those people calling the ATA's toll free number cost the ATA?
Because I suspect that's really why they put up such a fuss...
Well, too bad for them.
"I really wonder what kind of person would run a company that is so obviously reviled. I mean, at some point my survival instinct would kick in and say, "Wow. I'm doing something people really, really hate. And they know who I am. And there are some real wackos out there. Hmm...""
And yet we keep voting them back into office.
I called Rocca and asked him to hold for an important message.
I am afraid that is wrong.
The correct method is to place multiple calls to determine when he actually may be home before you actually attempt to speak with him, then if you are rebuffed to become angry and make multiple hang up calls daily for a week or two.
At least that's how the telemarketers do it where I am from.
In addition to calling them up, I rather like the idea of slashdotting their homepage (which, if you missed it earlier, is http://www.ataconnect.org/, just to make sure). I'm very happy to see that after I clicked the link about a minute ago, I've just now gotten the page title. I'm feeling like there should be a permanent link from slashdot to http://www.ataconnect.org/. That would be fun...
This side up.
In light of the recall, you should use the arnold soundboard for something like this. ;)
Maybe the best way to discourage telemarketers is to create a public registry of their telephone numbers, which the public can then call to voice their opinions about telemarketers in general. (The telemarketers could hardly complain about this; after all, it's "free speech" and political speech to boot.) A continuous campaign might have an effect.
For all you slashdoters concerned about calling telemarketing weasels with nothing to sell:
I grant full rights to my Sack-O-Shit innovation.
For $29.99 plus $15 shipping and handeling you can send them a bag of fresh crap.
For an extra $10 you can enclose a book of matches, completing their upgrade to Flaming Sack-O-Shit (some assembly required).
I am releasing the innovation to the P2P manufacturing system to make sure supply will keep up with demand.
Be sure to ask their; Name, Address, Email Address, Cell Phone Number, Credit Card Number, Mother's Maiden Name, Sexual Prefrence, Bank Account Number, Social Security Number, Venerial Disease History, Pet's Names and How Much they got for their soul.
If my right to swing my fist stops where your face begins, why does their right to piss me off extend on to my property?
SD
âoeWho knew something as harmless as willful ignorance could end up having real consequences?â
Oh, I dunno...if they call during normal business hours, wouldn't most people be at work?
:-)
Not that I have any sympathy whatsoever for telemarketers....fortunately I live in Colorado so I don't get telemarketing calls
Twenties Retirement
GET A CELLPHONE! come on people, we're technically inclined. Cell prices (mobile, handy whatever you call them), passed the point of affordable a long time ago. I have been cell only for 5 years, and it keeps getting cheaper! I even call europe regularly, and it's still cheaper than a landline, and NO HASSLE!
Kill your land line!
Hah, you're kidding me... I used to work for Tim and Tom Searcy at a (halfway decent) telemarketing co... We weren't the evil kind as much because most of our business was inbound call centers.. That's funny though, because Tim & Tom Searcy started the company then got booted out by the baord of directors a few years later... I guess Tim's still working in the industry.
I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
I'm getting busy signals too. Maybe I'll have better luck at 4:00am Monday.
Go here to create your own Slashdot dis
or
;do for email in tim bill lynne mitch brad jason kjacobs bobf;do echo "Bugger Off" | mail ${email}@ataconnect.org;done ;sleep 1;done
while (/bin/true)
I don't care if they're "just doing their jobs" - they're doing it at her and my great inconvenience, and that's NOT acceptable.
"Just doing our jobs" sounds a lot like "just following orders", doesn't it? Remember, torturers working for south-american governments are also just doing their jobs.
I don't CARE if 2 million telemarketers get booted to the street. They'll just fill other service positions that pay the same paltry amount but don't irritate people.
Even if these 2 million are forced to prostitute just to make ends meet, at least they'd be providing a valuable service. Why is THAT considered illegal but telemarketing isn't?
You have to overbook (sell more tickets than seats based on estimates of no-shows), charge more for tickets, disallow refunds on unused tickets, or go bankrupt cause your competitors will. Venn diagram proving the point left as an exersize for the reader.
Here it is in a nutshell: The phone company should offer a service whereim if a telemarketer calls (and as he pointed out, the telephone company certainly would be aware of what incoming calls are from telemarketers since they dole out the numbers themselves), they shoould here a message stating "You appear to be a telemarketer. %Your Name% is willing to hear what you have to say, provided you agree to a $1.00 (or $2, whatever...) charge for this call. Press 1 to accept the charges, or please hang up". As Andy pointed out, such a service should be offered as free since the phone company could then have half of whatever was taken in as payment, with the rest going to whomever the phone belongs to. Not a bad idea. Offer this in addition to the do not call list, and you might have the solution: Those who don't want the calls wouldn't get them, and those who are willing to talk to the salespeople for a fee would make a little extra cash. It might also be incentive for all of the scummy telemarketing firms to actually train their callers as to what's considered good customer service vs. the crap we get now!
One thought I had, reading through what's been posted so far, is that I wonder just how many slashdotters are waiting for dinnertime before they call the ATA execs at home.
I actually managed to get the ATA website to load, but for some reason, I just don't seem to have any motivation to copy it here so people won't keep slashdotting the server...
Twenties Retirement
Grow up and get a life.
I see slashdot is using Brittany Spears themed titles.
Perhaps we could have SCO's stories based on 'Hit Me Baby One More Time'
I have yet to see a Mac user who could adapt to the cluttered and absolutely shitty interface of Windows XP.
OTOH, I have seen quite a few Windows users attempt to imitate the Quartz engine.
OATH, I myself imitate the Quartz engine (on everyone's favorite Torvaldsian OS, Linux) using everybody's favorite open source customizable desktop software, coming up to version 3.2, with a translucent kicker (eye candy gets people hard)
This is not the sig you're looking for.
when you troll /. what you are doing is harassment.
Bite me, dipshit. My son was still born in 2000. Try as we might, my ex-wife [1] and I tried to get the baby-food, baby-supply, ad [2] nauseum people to stop fucking harassing us. I distinctly can recall coming home from my first week back at work to her holding the phone and sobbing "every time I start to tell them to be put on the do not call list, they hang up before I can finish."
Yeah, making a call to the ATA to politely voice my opinion sure is mean spirited and harasement isn't it?
Tell ya' what. Stop and think a minute about the most horrible thing which ever happened to you. I'll wait.
I'm still waiting. It doesn't matter if it was a loss or some form of embarassment, just something which wrenches at the very fiber of yourself.
Thinking about it? Kind of gnaws at the bottom of you stomach, doesn't it?
Now, imagine every time you get a handle on this horrible feeling in your gut,some asshole brings it up again by calling you. Now imagine further, because humans aren't much more than pavalov's dog, it happens so often you start to get that horrible feeling in the pit of your belly every time the phone rigns.
Happy to retaliate? I couldn't come close to the misery these despicable creatures have put me and the ex through.
[1] yes, ex-wife. The death was traumatic enough. Having these-scum-whom-I-refuse-to-acknowldge-as-human remind us of it on a daily (or even hourly basis on the weekends) undoubtedly contributed more to our split than any other single factor.
[2] proof engineers, like musicians, should not try to be funny.
I've found what works best for mormons in this area is to research some of their leaders' (past and present) mistakes and talk about them. Another good idea is to put a large pentagram up near the front door. And, if you're feeling geeky, you might try opening up counter-strike (or any other game with real-world weapons) and spectating a match with the sound up real loud.
"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
My neighbors just kept their guns out. Plainly visible. Big guns.
I'm going to remember that!
Debunking the "59 Deceits"
AH, time to fire up minicom and that good old modem I haven't used since I got DSL. I knew I should keep it for something...
Telemarketer: "Hello?"
Modem: "EEEEEE! BOOP! EEEEEE! BOOP! EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE..."
Telemarketer: Blah blah blah.
Me: Is this an emergency?
Telemarkter: Huh?
Me: I'm sorry, but this number is for emergency calls only.
For a long time, I just answered the phone "Phoenix emergency..." Why have you called 9-1-1 sir?... They don't really have any way of knowing whether their call has been forwarded to 9-1-1 or not, but it absolutely gets you off the list, and the caller disappears FAST. (I don't give a crap that it's fraud, bear in mind that I'm a bit of a punkass on these things).
Another fun one:
Telemarketer: Blah blah blah.
Me: Is this a business call?
Telmarkter: Of course!
Me: I'm sorry but this number is for personal calls only.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
The telemarketing industry needs to update their business model. I think they need to move on to something more modern like selling their products through email. Surely then we'd all be much happier, without all those unwanted telephone calls!
Better yet, let's call the parent poster and offer to sell him our garbage..... I just cleaned the cat litter box.
take the names on the sites listed above, the cities as well and plug them in at
www.switchboard.com
sorry, but dont know html to format it. Yeah, flame me all you want, I just never wanted to learn it.
Stop signs are only Suggestions
There was an issue a while back regarding whether an automaton can enter you into a binding verbal or written contract without you knowing about it.
We had talked about creating a webpage with an email address. The webpage would discuss a contract for a large amount of money, and say emailing the listed email address would enter you into the binding contract and you'd owe a lot of money. The email address would be nonobvious and not posted anywhere else other than this one webpage. The whole point, of course, is to catch spam email harvesters and sue them for a lot of money. As soon as you started getting spam at that email addy, the spammers would be those who entered into your contract.
Sounds like a great idea, but there is no such thing as a contract without a "meeting of the mind" so to speak. So, for better or for worse, it wouldn't work. Of course, if you make your tape recording in your voice, and they have a recording of the sale (you saying "uh-huh") you'll have a hard time proving that it was your recording and not you who said it. But, if you could prove that by a preponderance of the evidence I'd imagine the contract would not exist.
Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
*whistle*
I read somewhere that the names of the heads of these telemarketing firms can be found on the Do-Not-Call list.....
One thing that has been driving me nuts lately are the barrage of commercials for the "Free Software" from "Video Professor" - They run these commercials 5-6 times an hour minimum across hundreds of cable channels. It disgusts me when companies use the word "free" over and over with little fine print below like "* some restrictions apply" - I do not believe this type of advertising should be legal, not to mention the fact that this is misleading and I suspect the software they're hawking are obsolete versions of mediocre titles.
Whenever these "free software" commercials come on, I pick up the phone and auto-dial the 800 number until the commercial goes off the air. I get a nice recording for about 30s and then call back over and over.. just like they do to me.
I take great satisfaction in making my "free" call to them to listen to the recorded message about their "free" software. Hopefully they'll get the message. Remember, "It's FREE!" Try it yourself: 1-800-259-1553!
...public payphones
The telemarketers have started leaving messages on my answering machine. Would it be legal for me to have a message stating that any commercial messages left on my answering machine can be done so at the cost of $500 per message. Simply leave the message and you will be billed.
Now, since it is computer to computer, and my end has clearly stated the conditions, I should be able to collect $500 dollars from every message left on my machine. If I send them a bill and they don't pay up, I should be able to take them to small claims court and win.
Linux - Because Mommy taught me to Share.
This might be a good use for them.. slip one of those post-it notes in your phone case to remind you to call these guys up when youre bored and talk to someone that is truely concerned with the joys of receiving unsolicited phone calls. Shame to let those minutes go to waste. One of us won't make much difference, but I can see the joy right now if even 1 percent of those out there receiving unwanted calls started calling back at all hours of the day and night ( thanks to the rotation of the Earth ), to discuss the joy of telemarketing with those who really care about it. Home phone numbers would be especially useful for this. Hell, even if they get answering machines, you could enhance their market research by leaving five free minutes worth of what your comments are on the subject.
Do note though, on the toll-free numbers, your caller-ID blocks don't work, as the phone company feels that if the toll-free number holder is paying for the call, he has a right to know who is calling. OK. But if the call is on your nickel, the callerID number should show up as private if you have it configured as such.
Can anyone confirm this?
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
Things we've Slashdotted:
- Web Sites
- Houses (using the good ol' US Postal Service)
- Satellites
hmm... a Phone Exchange? Nope we haven't done that one yet!Questions about their upcoming Compliance Seminar? Here are a couple of numbers to try:
- 12.htm
"Questions? Call Jeff Plaut at 215-635-2290, or Bryan Gray at 267-685-5147"
From http://www.ataconnect.org/chapters/midatlantic/11
I didn't say that. Nowhere did I claim that participating in the "slashdotting" of the ATA is illegal, or that you have no right to do it. I said that it is wrong to participate in such a destructive and malicious activity.
While my father was dying of cancer and I was awaiting "the call", I got a call from some jackass wanting to sell me vinyl replacement windows.I'm sorry for your loss. I'm sure the individual who called you would have been sorry as well if they knew.
When I was working night-shift testing satellites, I got multiple calls during the day from telemarketers who woke me up and kept me from getting adequate sleep.Don't answer the phone. Unplug it. Why is this such a difficult concept for people? Why does a ringing phone provoke such a pavlovian response?
You've got a screwed up set of priorities.I don't appreciate telemarketers any more than you do. What I have a problem with is the constitutionality of the law surrounding the DNC list. Why should a class of people be prohibited from calling you, but anyone else is free to call you? Do you realize that you can still be called by charities and policiticians under the currently proposed law? How is it right to deny free speech to some people, but not others?
Get yourself a bible. Make lots of notes; I've found http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
to be an excellent resource. Keep it near the door for religious callers, work through it point by point asking them to justify their answers, until they want to leave, then try and persuade them to stay just a little longer.
I haven't needed to use mine for several years, they just don't seem to stop here any more.
455fe10422ca29c4933f95052b792ab2
There are already several good AI chat bots and tons of IRC bots out there. I wonder if it would be possible to adapt one of these to interact with voice calls so that the AI system could waste as much of the telemarketer's time as possible in a circuitous and ultimately fruitless conversation loops before they finally gave up.
H4sICK4SHj4AA3NpdC10b25lLndhdgDtm/lSGlkYxcl/8+e8wf AA8xKpTKyyatREcAEEweCKikHckB13RcUFFRUXRGM0ieMTzr1N 07n0ertpsIHPVKpSwZP8hNPf+c6t7u72trbnXyZT3/vejyNTQf OfJpPpHfr1z7OJ+f3O9IfJ6wl6rOh74s3xtRSYHHY7ei2fOjs6 Oru6e2wu7/jMfGRlO3N6WXh4+vny+vr68vPpoXB5mtleiczPjH tdtp7uLvztnyy9DvfwZGApvpY+zF3dPT7/+u/19b+XH9/vb86z e5vJ5eD06NBAv/VzV0dHR9dna//A0Oh0cDm5uZc9v7n//uMFf/ uv58e7q9xhei0GLMACLMACLMACLMACLMACLMACLMACLMACLMAC LMACLMACLMACLMACLMACLMACLMACLMACLMACLMACLMACLMACLM ACLI3Kkt1dDQd9mMBi6el3fvHNhlfTx+jF78/Pj/fXuYOtxOLM mMfRZ7VYe+3uUf9CfDNzdl18fHp++la4zO6uRYKTpHx5JX18cY vliDl3uJVYIuXTC/GNzNlVSX6XP9lbi8xNDnPyiQBPvp3E8gFW PjI9H9vYPyXl0bmpsnwAy1M7R5z8HMu/jg+x8sGy/I6Tr2P5oK 0XvY7eyfFACMnPOfnRdipEyqfmo+tY/o2RX53ur0fnp0YG7Vje h+RfQ6ntI/wxIPnD7fnRTioUmECfFqLrtQ0OT81F1/dO8oz8Ec s3YvPTpHwpuX3IyS+QfDkw8YWRow8Oy9c4efHqNMPI3azcMzaD 5TlOfpxewXJnWT4ZjJDys8xGfGF6lJU7sDyxxZPP+ji5F8t3s5 eFkvz6LLMZX/CT8sXE1kHu+v4RywuXx+nV8KzPy8l9wfAqKT/Y jC8iuYOVj/oXE5sHpK0YVzpZX3ixK7H8Acv5rnSIuHKV58owth Vr6hsFU+f5pp4QmDpJmnpkeiG2kTmVNfXOsaIriwJXMqYemmBc WSHnuTK2Tpp6nzA160rO1KwrCTnjyn3Slesxnqn5rpQ2dZHC1D xXzkX4pl7gTM24MilwJc/Uu9m8gitvWFdieZjC1A6BqdHryNRZ RVMnGFP3MXK3hKldpKklR62YqeVH7YFw1G7yRm1QedTKmDoqML WWUUuaWm7UxlSP2nEcjEhe3ajtLY1aGVN7+PJjeVOLjFo5U2sb tRVyuVE75i/JSVdypiZGLStnXOknXbkY55maP2qr2R8URi3N/i ActR6FUetiXSm2P4R03x/yhKn5o5Z+f9AyagX7A3/UUuwPBc7U m8L94aAsr2LU0u4P6ketmv2BP2pV7Q+Ko1bD/qA8aun3B/FRy8 pLo3a4wpVi+wM5avflRq2u+4PyqFWzP3jp9gfqUcs3tZ+3P8iP WtbUcqOWfn8wRFXj7w/Gr2rV7w+tWtX4piZHrV9rVVMytbaqpn Z/qEtV66eoasT+IF7VUsauantQ1Yxb1eRNTVvV8rpXNcH+AFUN qhpUNTX7g1xVo94fmrKqZfmjVoej3sapajU96n3Tqia2P1RV1U RNbeCqRrE/1KmqKe8PjVzVFPcHg1U1sf1Be1VTYeoGq2p8Uzd7 VRPsDy1b1X7vD4pVjeKoF6oaVDWoarWvale6VDWa/QGq2htVtV 1jVzWqo96GrGoqj3opq5rc/qC5qtmgqtX0rhz1VU2fu3LEqtp+ 01U15f2hLlVN7f7Q/FXtqIZVTXF/UKxqvLty/DW4Kweq2htVtY qjXoErb+9l9geoarJV7d6QVU24P1RT1XLVVzUj3JWjT1WTPerV UNV02R+0V7W40atagz9AoVTV3uYBisaqapr2B6hqDV3VKPaH6q ua0NTVVjVS3tRVrQZHvXWqaiPqqtob3JWjtqrV4gGK2la16veH Vq1q+j1AQYxaJVNrq2pq94e6VDXlByhyNPtDhSvPMutR/DcOmw NfIhE8XQrFIuPAMPo5XXabYxC9R8zx1t198Rb9GyvL6NNz2u0O ZpiiN+cavXCD3tgUE/92+wCOiCQeRMX7O+S2rQR+R9ELzqGxry Fk5Mtb9AKmjeG7txw2O7Yo+klO8rfo/2aymgd1pQCVXgkRUAkC KklALSXRVSCEGsdQWQkoPLE4KJ80lJOBmpqL4TecBzXAQp2XoI 4w1KgA6loS6qwCaja8RkBFCKgoAbUaDnBQ85RQ/jLUDCXUXJVQ OUmoGwEUuhJTKJkZKJTqzFXqKEEtl6GYm+rQ5MNQLmmoSQ7qNn +yKwF1jKHGfkNts1Bo/CUXqaB2MVRRGiovgEJ+xlCXCAoNqaEy VLwMhcYPmp1jHgYKR1YJ6q4M5ZaGsqmDYi4yBDUX3aCCmiGhjp SgDkiowPIqARUloCIE1FpktgQ1WAGVxVDj0lADNFDlKz+OY4sH VWChvCUoH4ZiZ+TpHgXUSAXU7xnpLs9IFipBQIVSadVQ+yJQw5 JQeHBXCTVMQJ1UQLnKUPJpUmTThIWSTJNKqEMOyulBaSIONcGD oo+4otqIK0PVIeLooEQjbkzfiMtIpklOl4hTD0UbcTNqI67a3J WOOGHu4mWTGNwJIk1ClRE3pRRxPjLipKD4Efc7d1VFnKrczSjk 7kUllCDi9MxdOwtFF3FV5G6ACoob3K6aRdyW2oijyd0RDVAhDb krFnGyUHpGXFY84taINIkQgzta74grQ6mMOBkoQcQtsjPSU4q4 C/mIg2r51tWyXhFn+GopGnE7lGkC1bJO1VIm4vSulqojDqqlhm opE3FVVku9Ig6qJVTLZqyWoqenhqiWKiNOJnclIw6qZatXS30i
whoah, dude. you missed it. i will not, for one moment, pretend that i'm interested in their shit when i'm not (except maybe in the context of delivering a joke to a friend) because It would encourage them and i will not undertake any action that encourages them, even temporarily.
If opportunity came disguised as temptation, one knock would be enough.
3^2 * 67^1 * 977^1
You don't have to listen just because they call. You have a number of options:
Don't answer
Hang up
Block the call (several devices exist on the market to do this)
Use a cell phone and cancel your phone service. Most telemarketers avoid calling cell phones. (For now at least.)
Don't make me solve your problems. Don't make the government solve your problems. This "they are making me listen to them" whining plays right into the hands of people who would just love to run every element of your life.
After they shove sales calls into our houses, we voluntarily visit their site and they are /.'d.
30% off web hosting. Coupon code "SLASHDOT".
Good post
Maybe he left his phone plugged in, in case a different family member was hurt or killed. THAT would be a valid reason to wake him from his sleep. Or maybe his boss would call him because they needed him to work OT. In either of those situations, an unplugged phone is going to delay the receipt of said information, and cause a lot of problems...
Chris
You, like many others, have taken my comments out of context. If this happens again I'll make sure I include more context; it was wrong of me to assume everyone saw the same comments as I did...although the original article implied enough in my opinion.
Several people replied to the article stating that everyone should call the ATA again to cause them more trouble. This was not the first time this had happened. There was no desire here to politely state an opinion, but rather to cause problems. "Let's call them so many times that they have to cancel their new number! Bwahahahaha! I'll set up an auto-dial on my cell phone!"
It's me making my voice heard, and until someone abolishes the First Amendment we are more than welcome to do things such as this.I agree, you have every right to do things such as this. Nowhere in my comments did I say it was illegal or outside your rights. I said it is malicious and wrong.
Another fun one:
Telemarketer: Blah blah blah.
Me: Is this a business call?
Telmarkter: Of course!
Me: I'm sorry but this number is for personal calls only.
My in-laws do it the other way around. As soon as they get the telemarketer they just say "I'm sorry, this is a business line" and the telemarketer usually goes away. They know that businesses can't/shouldn't make impulse purchases for their products, or donations, or sign up for a credit card, or whatever -- and leave them alone.
Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'
TTC Marketing Solutions is a member of the ATA and would love to hear from you! I'm sure we can provide some valuable feedback. Pressing 6 connects you directly to the outbound supervisor. Let's show them the slashdot effect. I hear they have great products, like credit cards, insurance, and magizines!
(800) 777-6348
Tell them how you feel!
How about fax numbers? If you fax them questions such as, "Why do you keep calling us?" with huge images attached, then one of two things will happen:
1. If they use a regular fax machine, it will use up lots of paper.
2. If they use a computer to receive faxes, it could fill the harddrive.
Can anybody find a fax number for them?
Hacking TiVo
There's no really good short answer to that question, to get a satisfactory answer you have to familiarize yourself with the history of free speech legislation. Tough reading but very rewarding, in my rather limited experience.
Basically, over time the courts decided that the the constitution does not protect ALL speech, and the state sometimes has a legitimate interest in regulating speech. Some of those interests are obvious: a person shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre, a person slandering another person, a person threatening another person with violence, and so on.
The part about charities and political groups being able to call you matches historical court precedents which indicate that political speech is the most constitutionally protected form of speech, since it is fundamental to the function of democracy. Restricting political speech can, in some instances, damage the fabric of the republic itself, and hence it is heavily protected.
Whereas telemarketers' schlock is, in all likelihood, not constitutionally protected at all. It has never been ruled on specifically, as far as I know. I tend to think the supreme court would rule unaminously that the state has a legitimate interest in maintaining a list like this.
There is a very compelling case to be made (by the number of households enrolled on the list alone) that the list addresses a legitimate social need, and no case to be made that telemarketing is worthy of the categorical constitional protections afforded to political speech. There's no case to be made that telemarketing REQUIRES such strong protection, either, in this case: the Do Not Call list is not needlessly restrictive, it only protects the privacy of people who want to be protected, and it does it in such a way that other avenues of direct marketing are still open to companies. It's not designed to put anyone out of business, and it accomodates (indeed, facilitates nicely) the ATA's _stated_ interest of only calling people who want to be called.
The notion of leaving other avenues of speech open has also been a factor in constitutional free speech cases: state restriction of a method of speech is considered somewhat less damaging by the courts if other methods remain. In this case, marketers still have a plethora of methods available. All in all, the law seems pretty well constructed to me, from a constitutional point of view.
Now before I get modded down, I be to remind whoever might read this that what I am saying is FACT. - bogaboga
As far as I'm aware, making a single call to the ATA, even if it is in conjunction with thousands of others as part of a malicious "slashdotting" campaign, is completely legal. At no point in my comments did I ever state otherwise. What I said is that it is malicious and wrong if done for the sole purpose of, say, "phone griefing".
Just because an action is within your rights doesn't make it right.
I just went back and read some of the top-moderated posts under this article. Quite a few of them illustrate the behaviour I was railing against. Don't pretend you didn't see it.
It would be easy to prove that that it was your recording. Why else would you have a tape that was perfectly in-sync with their phone call and continues on that way for 20 minutes?
Yeah? Well then, in spite of my numerous requests to them to stop, MCI, AT&T, Qwest, and some pack of credit counseling fuckers (latest number at 1-800-237-1649) *ARE* harassing me. Turnabout is totally and completely fair play, and setting a modem and a procomm script on their 800 numbers to rack up 500 calls to them overnight every night for two weeks straight is fair play too. At least I'm willing to ACTUALLY STOP if they ask me.
You wouldn't have that evidence. If you showed the tape at trial, how can you prove you didn't make it after the lawsuit? As for what they recorded, their evidence would simply be the recorded snippet where they say "so, do we have your permission to bill you four hundred and ninety nine dollars?" and you say "uh huh." (end of recording).
what about the rest of the recording? well, they only keep the part showing you affirmatively entered into the contract, not the entire phone call which consists of answering questions and negotiating, as that would be a waste of storage space.
Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
They never came back to my street.
Really, has this happened to you? Do you know anyone that has had this happen? If not, stop using the "take it to the edge" strategy and stick with reality.
Why hello there Einstein... That's the flippin' point!
I am a telemarketer and I think your comments are rude and insulting. If I want to harass old/crippled people for a living that is my business.
A couple of weeks ago, I had this unexpected knock on the door. Some chick was going door to door, selling magazine subscriptions.
My GF is a pushover for these people, for IRL and on the phone, and let her in. *duh* So I figured I'd take the opportunity to have some fun.
This girl was telling my GF about all the different magazines and whatever, and how if she sells the most she'll go to Hawaii on vacation as a prize, and send us a thank you postcard (I fail to understand this sales tactic - WTF is in it for ME?).
I offered her a drink, which she accepted. Lucky for her I'm not a Roofie fan. Anyway... I walked over to the front door, and making sure it was noticed, I locked the front door.
Then as she's going through her spiel, I sat across the livingroom from her and my GF, reached behind the couch, took out my katana, and proceeded to sharpen it. Long, steady, methodical strokes, all the while staring at this girl with absolutely no expression on my face.
She tried to ignore me, but after a while it was obvoius that she no longer cared if she went to Hawaii as much as if she would ever leave with all limbs still attached.
My GF managed to keep a straight face, and felt sorry enough for the girl that she actuallt bought a few magazines. Partly out of pity, and partly to keep her there longer, to see how much more of a blabbering idiot she would become.
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
I am on the TPS list but I still get calls from telemarketers. I say "have you heard of the TPS ? what's your companies business address?" and they put the phone down straight away.
Well said. Probably the most informed reply I've seen yet. Not that I agree with everything you said, in particular the protection of telemarketers' free speech. But that aside:
I have a fundamental problem with the enactment of laws to fix things that people should be fixing for themselves. A legistlated DNC list with penalties attached is a perfect example of this. I won't go over the possible solutions again, we've all seen them before.
Anytime the government gets involved, quagmires tend to result. Who gets punished? Who should receive exceptions? What's the fine? Who gets the money? What about the veracity of the list, I mean, did Mr. Bill really add his own name or was it forged? This all takes a whole lot of time and money to solve. And it's all a waste because there are already ways for me to solve it on my own.
Sorry, it's not a home number, but... Dave B mentioned the ataconnect.org site, apparently /.'ed, which is registered by Fanger Communications,
in Indiana. (at http://www.fangercom.com/)
Even tho the contact number on their site is 317.636.7635, I would never suggest that you call them and ask them their relationship to ataconnect.org.
Especially don't call if you have a national calling plan on your cell phone.
Re-frame the decision. Don't ask yourself "this dude on the phone wants $100 for CP, should I make an impulse contribution or not". The right decision tree is:
... what organization will spend the biggest percentage of my $YYY on programs that actually help people, and the least percentage on administration?
Decision 1: I have $XXX that I want to donate to make the world a better place.
Decision 2: I have decided that I am willing to donate $YYY of that to fight cerebral palsy and help people with the disease.
Decision 3: okay
Making a charitable contribution actually has something in common with buying something else. There are large national reputable organizations; there are small local grassroots organizations; there are the asshats who call you on the phone unsolicited who work for some organization that you've never heard of.
I spent a few minutes looking for cerebral palsy associations in Canada and the first one I found, Cerebral Palsy Association of Canada, has a bunch of affiliates. I picked Ontario because I've been to Toronto once and it was cool. CP Ontario says that it spends about 11% of its revenue on administration, which leaves 89% for the good stuff.
Of course that figure may be gilded to look better than they actually are. Depending on how much you are donating and how sensitive you are, you can invest more time reading the annual reports and financial statements of the charities on your short list.
But when you look at the percentage that the people who make unsolicited calls turn over, some of those assholes keep 80% for "fundraising expenses" and give 20% to the ostensible beneficiaries.
So, the next time that you get one of those unsolicited calls, ask them for a copy of their annual report in the mail; ask them what percentage of their contributions go to administration and fund-raising; and ask them why you should donate to them instead of $MEGA_CHARITY or $LOCAL_HOSPITAL. Or, if keep taking the short route and tell them to fuck off, you can do it with a clean conscience -- you don't need those telemarketers to help you with your charitable contribution plan.
Heheh... Thanks for the link. I found it most humorous. The "Insults Against Women" page particularly. It reads like the writings of some self-made victim of society, and things are frequently deliberately misinterpreted from the meaning that would be most likely perceived if the passages were quoted in context, and considered with the probable customs and culture of the period in history. Also, it's well-known that the Bible has been translated and copied very many times, and some of its content has been lost or altered. Some mistranslated passages are quoted as though they were correct (the example of Lot protecting the angles is an example; in another translation, he does not yield his daughters to the men of Sodom and Gomorrah, but warns them (the men) not to touch his daughters, presumably because they were desiring them as well).
A solution to the problem with music today
Don't answer
Hang up
Block the call (several devices exist on the market to do this)
Use a cell phone and cancel your phone service. Most telemarketers avoid calling cell phones. (For now at least.)
Obviously I hit a nerve with you on what was supposed to be a helpful suggestion for citking. Lets go over your points then, shall we?
Don't Answer- Not an option if I am expecting an important phone call. Even if I'm not expecting a call, why should I take the additional time to screen telemarketing calls when a vastly better alternative exists: not getting them in the first place.
Hang up- while somewhat satisfying, hanging up doesn't prevent telemarketers from calling you again. Not being called by telemarketers at all seems the goal of at least 50 million Americans. Hanging up does not help accomplish this goal. That plus many people find it very difficult to hang up on someone, even an univited sales pitch. Telemarketers frequently take advantage of many peoples' reluctance to be rude
Block the call- What a novel concept. Now I get to pay money to block calls I shouldn't be getting in the first place on a phone I pay for. Additionally, this makes it very difficult to receive legitimate phone calls from people not on my pre-approved phone list. That plus there are known exploits used by telemarketers to get past call blocking (spoofing fire & police service numbers, which can't be blocked, etc). So this is a partial solution, which inconvieniences me and costs me money.
Use a cell phone and cancel cell service - Certainly this is an option for some, but for others it poses problems. For example, I if I live in a low signal area, now ALL my phone calls are lousy quality and are subject to frequent disconnects. Additionally, if the power goes out in the area (something that happens where I live frequently due to electrical storms, tornados, etc), then you have no way to call out for emergency services, to family (perhaps to let them know you are ok), your boss (gee I'll be late today my freezer is turning into a puddle), etc. Also, having a cell phone may reduce or prevent the number of telemarking calls I receive today, but what about tomorrow? Will telemarketers continue to leave these numbers alone? What's our guarantee?
Don't make me solve your problems. Don't make the government solve your problems. This "they are making me listen to them" whining plays right into the hands of people who would just love to run every element of your life.
Hmmm, how is my telling citking the best way to currently reduce the number of telemarketing calls he receives making you solve my problems? Unless you mean my support of a National Do Not Call List. In that case I see no reason why the United States government ("...of the People, by the People, for the People") cannot devote a meager amount of resources to addressing a problem that literally millions of Americans want fixed. Unwanted telemarketing calls are an irritating, timewasting, and an eminently fixable problem. It seems obvious that "We the People" want it fixed and are using our biggest bat to fix it.
If you think that having a national Do Not Call list and allowing fines to be levied against egregious violators somehow promotes a government Big Brother agenda and "plays right into the hands of people who would just love to run every element of your life", then I suggest you ask yourself exactly how is this going to be abused? This isn't some conspiracy agenda being promoted from above, it is 50+ million people complaining LOUDLY that they want this crap to stop NOW.
There are much better places to look for will-to-power and anti-freedom political agendas. The National Do Not Call list is not one of them.
I.V.
(ps. I went back and read my post, nary a whine to be found. civilized discourse about controversial topics is only harmed by unnecessary emotional characterizations)
"These laws they're passing won't even compile anymore, let alone execute." - anon
Something i've found useful (and this requires interaction with USPS) in reducing the number of calls I get at home was to register directly with the DMA to no longer be called/mailed/whatnot from their members. I don't need to fill up my trash can, fireplace, or recycling bin with the junk they mail me. Here's the link so you can do the same for yourself. Yes, it requires a stamp, printer and envelope but I place the cost of printing and mailing close to $1 for most people. As I work from home, this has been necessary and helps get my name off the lists. Also, be sure to pay close attention each time a company you do business with mails you a copy of their privacy policy. American Express provided a nice form in one of the bill envelopes to fill out and mail-in saying I did not want to be bothered by their partners. Be sure to pay attention to what is in those envelopes even if you pay your bill online (as I do) to not miss those important chances to reduce the junk that fills up your phone line, email box, or postal box from companies.
seems like their website http://www.ataconnect.org/ has been... /. miami.com 'd
if that makes sense.
or just DOS'd
peace.
www.qsopht.com ~q
Don't answer the phone. Unplug it. Why is this such a difficult concept for people? Why does a ringing phone provoke such a pavlovian response?
Why does someone saying "don't call me I don't want what you're selling anyhow" provoke such a nonsensical response?
Those of us with a soul probably have people in our lives we care about and who we want to be able to contact us immediatly when there's a crisis. Telemarketers apparently don't understand this, implying they lack a soul and people in their lives that care enough about them to call them for reasons other than to sell them things.
I agree with what was said earlier, you've really got a screwed up set of priorities.
Mark WIlliams, Wilmington, DE
Holy shit. I could WALK OVER THERE.
Fast busy, proof that not even the phone system suffers from the slashdot effect.
Even if these 2 million are forced to prostitute just to make ends meet, at least they'd be providing a valuable service. Um, would YOU wanna have sex with a telemarketer? I thought not.
"Stupid! Stupid stupid stupid stupid! I touched the hot wire right there - I'm an idiot!"
ahem,
s/not even/even/
ATA's Chairman Thomas (Tom) Rocca is employeed by IRT, www.callcenter.com. He was proudly added as an executive in November of 2002. http://www.callcenter.com/pressreleases/press_AddN ewExecutive.htm
I suggest you call them at (954) 717-0130 and let them know you object to their participation in ATA and their attempts to block the do not call list.
(954) 717-0130
(954) 717-0130
(954) 717-0130
ATA's Chairman Thomas (Tom) Rocca is employeed by IRT, www.callcenter.com. He was proudly added as an executive in November of 2002. http://www.callcenter.com/pressreleases/press_AddN ewExecutive.htm
I suggest you call them at (954) 717-0130 and let them know you object to their participation in ATA and their attempts to block the do not call list.
(954) 717-0130
(954) 717-0130
(954) 717-0130
I so wish I had mod points right now, just for the Anne Murray comment.
I'm in a hurry, but I have to post this. I was just awash in irony.
:)
First of all, for a site full of people so gung-ho about privacy invasions and all that, you all seem extremely adept at acquiring personal, private information of people you deem "bad." Newsflash: the government thinks it is only using its invasive powers on bad people. That's ironic.
And, I was reading the comments for this article, and - you're not going to believe this - a telemarketer called me. I sh*t you not. 2 incredible ironies in 5 minutes.
Now I must run off and watch Trading Spaces 100 Grand.
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
Can we get the:
1. names,
2. home phone numbers,
3. office phone numbers,
4. cell phone numbers,
5. websites
of the judges (and Lawyers) responsible for killing the do not call list?
... the ol' referee's whistle being blown into the phone. Sure it can hurt the person on the other end's eardrums and result in a lawsuit... but them were the days. :-)
Answer the door naked.
:)
I had Witnesses show up once while I was shaggin. Funnily enough, they wouldn't come in when I invited them... they didn't even come back later like they promised they would.
Nothing gets rid of door-to-door types like a sticky hard-on
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
I'm the only one to actually post Mr. Fanger's phone number and it is my post that is redundant...Hmm...
There's no adherence to Godwin's Law here on Slashdot...
YAW.
Your head of state is a corrupt weasel, I hope you're happy.
If you want to get rid of Mormons, just explain that you'd prefer not to be visited. Seriously, the missions (the people that come bug you) are supposed to maintain a list of people/houses that don't want to be visited.
Unlike the Seventh Day Adventists and such, the Mormons actually have manners.
Thanks for the info!
"These laws they're passing won't even compile anymore, let alone execute." - anon
Instead of flames, how about information?
It really is very easy, and makes your post more useful to the
- Peter
INsigNIFICANT
But... um... telemarketers' free speech was all I was writing about. What was the part you agreed with?
I've found no solution to keep these yahoos from ringing my phone whenever they please which doesn't interfere with the other, actually useful, functions of the phone. I have no sympathy for the view that it is their protected "right" to ring me, either. I'd be interested in hearing an explanation for that which isn't circular.
It would be better for everyone concerned if the industry policed itself, yes. The problem we have is that they have entirely failed to do that. The fact that this legislation, which appears to do nothing more than create restrictions the industry hypocritically *claims* to adhere to already, was even passed sort of demonstrates that the industry is not policing itself.
When weighing the pros and cons, even most of the the population who prefer less government intervention in business affairs seem to have decided that it's more important to act rather than not act in this case. I think that's a measure of how badly telemarketers have managed to abuse and annoy people.
Now before I get modded down, I be to remind whoever might read this that what I am saying is FACT. - bogaboga
Don't answer the phone.
Why have a phone if you can't use it?
What I have a problem with is the constitutionality of the law surrounding the DNC list. Why should a class of people be prohibited from calling you, but anyone else is free to call you?
Point to me which part of the Constitution gives anyone the right to reach into my house and make a bell ring, by any means.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=doofus
It seems to me that problems with tele-spam and the subsequent calls for regulation are indicative of a Technology that is desperately in need of reform. Unfortunately, our phone systems seem as pliable as pencils. Though I wonder, is it not possible to retrofit current infrastructure with some sort of call-source rating getup?
Also, carriers could identify tele-spammers in an instant! Hell, I imagine they even offer package tailored to fit their needs. I'm sure the carriers make huge profits from spammers, though I'm also sure they're accelerating the demise of their product.
So, it seems to me that we've atleast two options: (1) deploy a technology that reliably identifies tele-spammers, or (2) support telcos that tailor services to joe-nobody rather than the not-so-local tupperware outfit.
I've done that already, at least in my home.
I don't watch tv - the value-add is just too low.
Why do so many people think that freedom of speech guarantees them an audience? If I don't want to listen to what you have to say, your forcing that speech on me is harrassment, and that is a violation of my rights.
You have a right to say anything you like, as long as you can find a place to say it, and someone willing to listen. No one has any obligation to provide you with either.
It's no good - these guys are on the do not call list.
But charities are exempt -- ask 'em for a donation for the EFF
--
I give the mormons GOOHF cards. Works every time.
-
"Vengeance is fine," sayeth the Lord.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
At any rate, the burden would be on them to show that a contract does exist. They would have to prove that the answering machine tape did not provide the "uh huh".
If a dentist needs to resort to telepestering to drum up business, that's a good indication that his ministrations will cause your teeth to rot and fall out after months of agony.
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
Then you could just play music in the background at just at a loud enough level so that it's clearly perceptible during any recording. Their questions would be overlaid with the music, whereas you would have the tape with just your voice and the music. Since you could prove that your answering response tape and their recording match exactly during your responses, it would be pretty well impossible for the taping to have been made after the phone call.
The trick is to not have the music so loud that the telemarketeer asks you to turn it down. Of course you could at the odd interval do an off-stage yell of "Would you kids turn that down?!"
Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
I'll explain this in words of one syllable:
IT'S MY PHONE
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
Its nice to see that the /. effect is spreading to the phones
Doctors do Massage in Longview WA now, who knew?
Don't answer the phone. Unplug it. Why is this such a difficult concept for people? Why does a ringing phone provoke such a pavlovian response?
Let's see.
1. I'm paying a monthly fee to use my phone, plus I bought the phone, and I should have to shut it off if I don't want to be bothered by endless telemarketing calls?
2. A friend or family member could have an emergency and need to reach me, so I don't want to shut off the phone.
3. Many people need to be on-call for work and are unable to shut off their phones.
There are of course many other valid reasons for not wanting to shut off a phone, but those are the three most important ones IMO.
Does this method also work with mormons at the front door?
I remember the days when they would try and try to get you to talk. Now, all you have to do is to tell the Mormons, "No, thanks anyway." and they will thank you for their time, and not bother you again. The Jehova's Witnesses, on the other hand, are a bit more, well, let's say, persistant.
No, I am of neither religion. My personal opinion is like that one old dead feller said a while ago: "Religion is the opiate of the masses." I figure God is pretty disgusted with the whole religion thing anyway. More people are killed, more wars are started, and more greed and avarice are caused by religion than by any other root source.
For those who describe their systems as 'boxen', do you order multiple 'boxen' of corn flakes also?
At 11:00 PM on Sunday night...
LoL
Someone hang up so I can call damnit!
I got nothin'.
Some Jehova's Witnesses arrived at our front door, and forced a copy of "The Watchtower" into my father's hands, despite his objections.
So, he simply looked at it and said "Thanks, we're out of toilet paper". They snatched it back immediately and walked off.
I dunno about the two Andrews that show up in Omaha. I used to live there and those zip-codes aren't terribly upscale.
i've been looking for the update version of that for so long!
Did ya get the memo on the TPS reports? I'll go ahead and make sure you get another.
Yyyyyeaaahh.... Thaaaanks Peter.
-- Note: If you don't agree with me, don't bother replying. I won't read it.
Most of the contradictions in the SAB are pure crap. I'm sorry to say that anyone with a shred of reading comprehension will not fall for 99% of the "contradictions" therein. (Of course, this is Slashdot, and I wonder sometimes if our "editors" here have the same or higher reading comprehension abilities as those who preside over the SAB).
If you really want to get to the Mor[m]ons and Jehovah's Witnesses, there are plenty of more valuable resources which will show you how Joseph Smith & co. were full of crap, but the SAB really isn't one of them. The few reasonable complaints therein drown in a sea of drivel and you'll be handing those folks easy targets since everyone who has ever debated over the SAB knows how to resolve the "problems" cited therein by doing little more than looking up the references they cite...
As far as I know, and I live in the middle of one of the largest collections of them on earth I'm sure, the SDA doesn't proselytize.
Either that, or I'm already on their "going to hell in a handbasket" list.
You're right. The constituion here says that we have a right to free speech. However, nowhere does it say that the speaker has a constitutional right to an audience. When the drummer mounts a a soap box on a street corner you can walk on by or stop and listen, your choice. Telemarketers however are arguing that access to YOUR telephone and ears is part of their constitutional right. The theory is total hogwash. Not to mention that the judges who decided that ANY corporate entities had ANY constitutional rights should have been sedated with an animal tranquilizer from a distance, approached in level 4 containment suits, and locked up in padded cells, and fed at the ends of poles lest their insanity be contagious. Any court decisions they made shgould have been voided as potentially insane.
------ The only greater hazard to your liberty than n politicians is n+1 politicians.
Actualy, the better idea is to put their info on the web so it could be found in a search for their product. I never buy anything from anyone who called me. It's my personal fraud protection step. If I want something, I research it on the web. I find a reputable source (verified brick and moarter listing) that has reasonable offers. Seldom do the telemarkerters have the volume for the labor to have the best prices. They have to pay for the one-on-one sales force. When I wanted refill info for my printer, I searched for it and info on how to reset the estimated ink levels. Found the info online and bulk ink is sizes from 1/2 pint to 55 gallon drum. I found the pro's. (no shameless plugs) Service was great. I could buy kits, parts including blunt needles, or just the ink in bulk. I'm on my second order. An unknown calling me can't come close to the value I found online. If telemarketers were reputable, they would have their product online and fully researchable and have no reason to call me. I would find them when I am ready to buy.
The truth shall set you free!
are something I can understand. However, until we can legally shoot a telemarketer - not the poor sap making the call, but the jerk who hired him - in the ass for ignoring a non-governmental "do not call" list, laws are all we have.
Just as a matter of rationality, no corporation should be allowed to claim ANY constitutional rights. The "constitionality" therefore, should not worry you. It it applies to human beings and a business is not a class of humans that is being prohibited excercising free speech rights. As regards charities and politicians, well maybe next iteration. Regardless, half a loaf is better than none.
The companies that hire people to telephone you at dinner are not humans and individuals. They are fictive associations and can't rationally have any constitutional rights, though the individuals that compose a corporation all do have indivdual rights. Nowhere in the constitution is the right given to a private individual to call you or in anyway invade your privacy uninvited. They have no right whatsoever, regardless of whether they are corporations or human beings, to use your telephone for "free speech" purposes. That phone is private property and they are trespassing by calling you, even if you don't mind that they are. The whole idea that TM is somehow covered by free speech is stupid and self-serving.
Also, while free-speech is a constitutional guarantee, there is no guarantee of an audience. Neither you nor I are bound by law or ethics to listen just because someone has something they want to say. We have a right to privacy, even in public places, that supercedes any right a private individual has to speek to us. They can say what they want, its a free country, but we do not have to listen, its a free country. By extension, using our own telephone to "market" to us is equivalent to button-holing us on the street and trying to force us to listen. It violates OUR constitutional rights, not the fictional ones some theorist dreamed up for a business.
BTW, IANAL, but I am REALLY opinionated about this.
------ The only greater hazard to your liberty than n politicians is n+1 politicians.
I believe you can get a telco to restrict a line to only outbound calls.
They usualy do for call centers which leads me to believe this story might be fiction. When setting up a call center you have the option of using a COME (customer owned and maintained) PBX (Private Branch Exchange) system. They often have trunked lines from the telco. This is NOT your typical home or small office POTS line. There are two sets of lines in a trunked service for a PBX. The trunked incomming lines are DID (Direct Inward Dial). A typical use may be a hotel with 20 incomming lines on the trunk or call center with incomming calls to the same number ringing the next free operator. Any DID line can be routed to any room. The 21st caller gets a busy. Outgoing calls can not be placed on DID lines. Repeat... Outgoing calls can not be placed on DID lines. Outgoing trunk lines work the same way, but outgoing. Someone in the hotel picks up a phone and dials 9 to get one of the outgoing lines. You can not dial in on an outgoing trunk line. Telemarketing call center outgoing calls are routed by the autodialer to the next free outbound trunk line. With the use of an inbound DID trunk and an outbound trunk, There is no way to call in and catch an outbound call off the outbound trunk. You call will never get routed to any of the outbound lines.
There is a slim chance if the story is true, the telemarketer had a real small operation (home business) running a PC with a autodialer program on a POTS line & voicemodem. POTS lines are not typicaly used by telemarketers.
The truth shall set you free!
it's not the police... the company could routinely store just the contractual portion of the phone call as a routine business record and prove up the fact that they do this with each and every call that ends in a purchase.
Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
...is what I tell them. This usually gets through to them. If they are on commission or something they'll get the point and understand that I'm serious.
If you just keep saying "no" "not interested" "no thanks" they know all the responses to those statements to keep you on the line.
"What thou shalt not, I shalt did!" -Bart Simpson
Ya'll just need to move to Colorado before they repeal the state "DO-NOT-CALL-LIST". It works great! No more calls when my sleep-deprived self finally gets my little one down for a nap. Or write your representatives to request a state bill. Unless they have their hands in the pockets of telemarketers, they will prob'ly support this. State bills seem to fare better than national bills.
I was looking at the ata website when I found:
. htm
"ATA believes the current federal do-not-call list requirement adequately protects consumers from unwanted telephone solicitations. The ATA opposes blanket state do-not-call lists while supporting the federal company-specific approach."
at:
http://www.ataconnect.org/issuesummaries/1
So does this mean that the ATA isn't contesting the federal do-not-call list... ? And in that case how can the argument be over the First Amendment?
"he drew his sword Ringil that glittered like ice... and he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds..."
There's not one telemarketer in existence who _enjoys_ their job.
I very recently got a job at a telesurvey place (not quite marketing, I take political surveys, but it's just as scummy, and infringes on the same things).
Why did I take it?
I simply needed money VERY badly, and it was the only place that was hiring. The call center where I work is full of broke ass students who are just trying to pay their way through university, broke ass single mothers who need a second job to keep off welfare, and raise their kids with a bit of dignity, people who need money for their drug habbit (I'm dead serious) or people new to the country, and can't find a job where the employer doesn't care about their lose grasp on the english language.
I've never been on an immigrant filled raft bound for North America, but I'm sure that the atmosphere is similar to that of a call center. People are generally not happy with their current situation, but everyone pulls together to try and get through. A common discussion topics : "What I'm going to do once I get the hell out of here", "How I got stuck here", "What I say when people ask me where I work", "What high-tech company I got laid off from". Call centers are ALWAYS hiring, and if they weren't around, my broke student ass would be whored out to 1000 fat chicks for $50 a piece, or 50 really fat chicks for $1000 a piece. EVERYONE here is a few months of bad luck away from being on the other end of that phone.
Yelling at a telemarketer will do nothing. I've heard the finest forms of poetic profanity, and I'm yet to be shaken by even the most elaborate of rants. Telemarketers have a VERY fixed, boring, repetative work flow, and as a survival instinct, are able to put themselves into a trance. Anyone who's worked at a call center for more than a few months is able to put themselves in this trance while they're on the phone. The only way to snap a telemarketer out of their 'tele-trance' is to do something that is unexpected. If you really want to affect a telemarketer, something along the lines of "Wouldn't you rather be on welfare than selling your dignity for $8/hour?", or simply say "Down on your luck, huh buddy?". Say something very brief, that sounds like pitty, and I guarantee whatever you say after that will ring in their head for the rest of the day.
Getting on a do-not-call list, is not as easy as simply requesting it. When I went through training, I was blown away when I heard this. If people say "Put my on your DNC call list.*click*" we don't put them on the do not call list. ONLY if they are persistant, and very adament about being never called again are we to add them to the list. There was quite a bit of rumbling when the trainer told us this, and a LOT of people had big morale objections to this practice.
Most people that I talked to are very actively looking for other jobs. Another conversation topic around the lunch room, is people who've left and found other jobs, and how lucky they are, and how happy we'd be if the same good fortune found us. I hope to only be there for maybe another few weeks, and find a job ANYWHERE else that will fit my schedule, and pay for my college.
Telemarketers usually work 2 jobs, are not with their families at dinner time, get paid very poorly to be yelled at and verbally assaulted, are embarassed when asked what they do, and usually stuck between a rock and a hard place in their lives. While we do deserve all of the above, bear in mind that you read about rapists, suicide bombers, mass murders, and drunk drivers every day in the paper and think/do nothing of it, but when someone calls you during dinner, you're up in arms.
Telemarketing places should be put out of business for the same reason cocaine is illegal. Removing the temptation to work there will, in the long run, save many people from the embarasment and hell that is working at a telemarketing place, and save people from having a chapter in their life that they're not too proud of.
1000's of people will loose their jobs, but I'd say only about 1/4 will be genuinly dissapointed. It'd be that boot to the ass, that would force a lot of people to get their life together.
- Mr.Oreo
Yeah, but can your tape recorder legally enter a contract?
:-)
(I *know* mine can't, it's not 18 years old
Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
This reminds of the time I was visiting a dear old friend of mine, a retired catholic priest.
:-)
Ol' James looked postively ancient (and was), schooled by Jesuits, spoke fluent Latin, studied at the Vatican and fully conversant with many not-so-common church rituals.
Anyway this day there was a knock on the door and he shuffled over to answer it. He was greeted by some JW's and when he realised who they were, gave a look of fright, grabbed these two big silver candlesticks on the sideboard and made the sign of the cross screaming "Begone ye sons of Satan!" and proceeded to recite the full on exorcisim ritual in Latin.
Never seen people run so fast in all my life.
James closed the door, shuffled back to his seat and said "Works every time..."
People pay for the junk that they hock in infomercials and on HSN
Hey now! I have many Fine Products that I only found because of INFOMERCIALS. Say what you will about the quality of HSN products, but RonCo has yet to fail me. Pocket Fisherman (TM)? Still works after 20 years. The Amazing V-Slicer (TM)? I wish I still had it - my mom won't give it back!
So, please be more specific when spreading your FUD!
Even better, software to automatically install commercial software, including hands and eyes-free identifying and "Agreeing to" the automated click-through EULA.
I wonder what a typical judge would say if XYZ corp tried to enforce a license with someone, when the only licensing "discussion" was XYZ's automated software talking to the consumer's automated software.
----
Open mind, insert foot.
Everyone here should be aware that if the telemarketers win this case it will be bad. Worse than telemarketers.
There are groups, other than the telemarketers you all know and love, who are watching this case closely. Here's why:
Until now the #1 Amendment has said that anybody can speak, you didn't have to listen and you could walk on by and ignore the speaker. Until now the speaker didn't have access to your home.
If this case holds there are groups that are preparing themselves to telemarket you in ways you never imagined.
How would you like to be sitting down at dinner and get a phone call from someone to sell you on the idea of "white power" or "getting jesus" or "gay rights" or any number of things. As a free speech issue this goes beyond the sale of widgets or Disney vacations or windshields. It takes on a whole new version of ugly.
Sure, you still have the right to hang up but they will have the right to call. And there are groups just waiting to sell you some ideas that will make you want to forget all about the dinner that was interupted.
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
Name: AMERICAN TELESERVICES ASSN Address: 4605 LANKERSHIM BLVD City: NORTH HOLLYWOOD, CA 91602-1818 County: LOS ANGELES Phone: (818) 769-7009
Back in 1999 when people were just getting started with modems, a telemarketer called my modem line, which I happened to have a phone plugged into that day. I picked up and said, sounding all shocked, "What are you doing calling this number!!! This is a MODEM line! Do you know what could happen??? Don't ever dial this number again! Jesus christ!!!"
:-)
And they never dialed that number again
$8.95/mo web hosting
But I found that being honest is the best policy. When they start their sales pitch, I'll stop them and ask them again what the name of the company is. I'll pretend to write it down (or I may actually write it down), making sure to get the spelling correct. I will then thank them, and say that I will never ever buy anything from them because they called me at home. I did this with a window company that called. I said that we will probably be needing new windows in the next year or two (true), but I would make sure that I didn't buy them from them. I told them they just did me a favor by eliminating one of the possible choices of where to buy windows. If they feel like being dicks and arguing, I can justify myself by saying that I usually ask friends for recommendations, and I would make sure to recommend to everyone I know against buying windows from their company. They usually want to get off the phone pretty quickly.
One company KEPT calling, almost daily for a month. We never once answered their call, it was from TELNET ASSOCIATES. Since I have all telnet ports blocked on my Linux machines, I knew it was probably a telemarketer. Finally, I was fed up, and answered when they called. I asked them why they were calling. She started to go into her spiel, and I said more firmly "No. WHY are you calling me? You have been calling me for the past month, and I haven't answered your call yet. Why do you keep trying? Do you think I will buy something if you continue to annoy me? If you have a list, take me off of it. If you don't, then never ever call here again." She said "OK" and hung up.
Telemarketers - the original spam.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
or maybe some emails...
3815 River Crossing Parkway, Suite 20
Indianapolis, IN 46240
Phone: (317) 816-9336
info@ataconnect.org
Yes it happened to me with email, namely with 200+ spam messages a day effectively clogging my inbox with good messages being bounched back to sender because of lack of space.
So unless you live under a rock and don't know about exponential growth you can imagine what could happen if telemarketers started calling en-masse because of the lack of restrictions and economies of scale.
Of course the fact that it didn't happen to you or it's not reported on daily news makes you feel confident you can make a "call to reality" to me which is just another rethorical trick, but you don't offer any reasonable argument.
that's a good one. the senior minister in my church is a man of no small stature and periodically, he used to get visits. he ties 'em up for hours as he methodically destroys their arguments.
but the full latin rite: that's just priceless.
ed
that was intelligent, fair-minded and well-written. sadly, this means that it won't be modded up "interesting" or "informative" as it deserves...
hope your luck changes soon.
ed
FYI, for all who don't know. Telephone "slamming" involves switching your phone/long-distance carrier without your pre-authorization (it's illegal, call the FCC if it happens and make sure all charges are backbilled). I'm assuming credit-card slamming as mentioned above is the same, but swapping you to a new Visa/Mastercard carrier.
This, with a little research saying that Americans typically eat dinner from, oh, 5:00 PM to 7:30 PM, would allow them to perhaps avoid those area codes during that time. It still gives them three other time zones to mess with at pretty much any given point.
Actually, often telemarketers will call around meal times just for the ensurance that more people will be at home (eating dinner, just before, or just after).
Most people would say "that's dumb, who would answer them when eating," but remember these are the same people that believe that DNC registrants want to receive calls...
because you aren't really selling something.
Well!
I can solve that problem right here and now!
If you get a live one on the line, you can offer to sell them my 386 computer. It's in good condition and you should be able to get at least $300 for it if you're persistent. Maybe start out at $799 and then let them think they're getting a good deal on a vintage computer that has been tested thoroughly and is guaranteed not to have any of the viruses that have been floating around lately.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
I could learn it, and I probably will use the formatting for the links, but its not too difficult for people to read the post and type it in a new tab. This also stops from going ohhh, a link, lets click it and /. some poor site.
Stop signs are only Suggestions
Never let school get in the way of your education.
Never let religion get in the way of your faith.
Too many people confuse faith with religion. Religion depends on faith, but faith should not be dependent on religion.
Ewwww - that was YOU?!?!?!
No they're not telemarketers, but they are researchers. The people that call during dinner and ask for 'opinions' in efforts to 'improve customer service'.
BRG Research Services
Operation hours:
7:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. (MST)
Phone:
(801) 373-9923
Toll free:
(800) 800-8784
Fax:
(801) 374-2751
Address:
50 East 500 North, Suite 200
Provo UT, 84601
Sign them up for mailing lists etc. And JAM their phone lines.
Oh yeah, call the Microsoft Dogs on them. They have illegal copies of Windows , illegally registered copies of winzip (you can tell when the registration name is X and code is obviously hacked). and a multitude of pirated software on their systems.
I know, I work there. And I dont' care of the company goes under. They suck
This has a secondary advantage - using a pay phone will cost the 800 number an extra $.30 or so.
For the record, it wasn't meant to be emotional. (Not that it matters now.)
pay phones = your friend.
its not too difficult for people to read the post and type it in a new tab.
/.'s formatting filter, which adds in spaces to any string of non-whitespace characters that's too long.
4 6292>
Except for
Like this: <http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=81151&cid=71
See that beautiful space?
That's I guess the biggest argument for making direct links.
- Peter
INsigNIFICANT
Your sig is, "'War's Legitimate Object Is More Perfect Peace.' William Tecumseh Sherman" This from the same man that did his level best to burn down and utterly destroy Atlanta, including women, children, the elderly, etc. Oh sure, like this guy has the first idea of what a more perfect peace would be like.
I submit that you would do well to follow the footsteps and quote the words of more honorable people, sir.
*** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
I always ask if it's Jesus on the line, really excited like. Usually, you get about a five second wait before they say "No, this is not Jesus." At this point, I scream maniacally "THEN WHY ARE YOU CALLING ME THEN!". Most of the time, I get hung up on...sometimes, I get to repeat my performance with their manager. :)
here is all you do you answer the phone. what for silence and say "could you repeat that." set the phone down.
When you hear Silence again say "I'm sorry I can't seem to hear you could you repeat that." and continue.
Just keep doing this til they get the hint and hang up. Not only does this waste this guys time but it also saves the next person on the list from having their dinner spoiled.
How noble! :)
Actually here's one I came up with the other day:
"I'm sorry, but this number was forwarded to my cell phone. I'll listen to what you have to say, but I need a name and address where I can forward the roaming charges."
that should do it...
Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'