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What's Coming in Solaris 10
raptor21 writes "Ace's hardware has an article with feature list of technologies in Solaris 10 or whatever it is called today. Interesting stuff like DTrace, FireEngine, military grade security and a new filesystem called ZFS, Zetabyte File System."
More SCO IP?
Je t'aime Stéphanie
...is to refer to it as "Solaris X" or "Solaris OS X". That way it can join the ranks of:
Mac OS X
JBuilder X
MegaMan X
And others!
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Buzzwords like "DTrace" and "Fire Engine TCP/IP" don't sound very useful, they sound like bloat. And who needs a zetabyte filesystem? We haven't even reached petyabytes, for $DEITY's sake!
The only bright spot is that Sun is releasing it for x86-64 platforms as well as x86, so all of this "oh-so-wonderful" stuff can be used on Opteron boxen.
SCREW THE ADS! http://adblock.mozdev.org/ Proud user of teh Fox of Fire - Registered Linux User #289618
Interesting stuff like DTrace, FireEngine, military grade security
Why isn't the military using it now then?
When anger rises, think of the consequences.
Confucius (551 BC - 479 BC)
Goatse.c X?
I thought it already had military grade security. After all Solaris was the first OS to earn Common Criteria certification.
-You may license this sig for only $6.99.
STOP IT!
When the chips are down (or fried), and the system's crashed, I want root level access. Sure, it is less secure, but somebody needs permissions to root level edit every file simply in case of emergencies.
Exercise your right not to vote. thinkoutside.org
Gee.. maybe the end users have a large Sun machine with dozens of CPUs and they need the scalability? There's nothing wrong with Linux/FreeBSD/OpenBSD/NetBSD/MacOSX, etc etc but you should pick the best tool for the job.
"When your only tool is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail".
Trolling is a art,
A hook into Phoenix's DRM BIOS on the x86 ports ?
Just kidding.
wbs.
Huh?
Isn't that where the case is internally wired to explosives so that all the hardware and data will be incinerated if an unauthorized user tries to crack it open?
Maybe the military has various grades of security. They shouldn't, though -- everything should explode. What good is the military if nothing explodes?!
When your only tool is an axe, every problem starts to look like hours of fun.
It was beta, though, so I couldn't talk to them.
--- Ban humanity.
...and when your only tool is a screwdriver, someone ends up getting screwed...
Profitablity?
I'm sorry. Man, I really need this 4 day weekend coming up.
--- Ban humanity.
hmm... possibly because this article is entirely about features that you will not find on kernel.org?
sic transit gloria mundi
I take it I'll have to upgrade again from my Ultra 5 just run this!?!
still on Sol 8
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun."
Can I run the ZFS (Zebra file system) in a RAID-0 configuration?
Thanks,
Stripes
Catherine Zeta bite? Zetabyte, get it? heh.
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
Not all of these features will be available with the initial release
Yes, I too am releasing an operating system. It will have the ability to run buggy code without compromising any other part of the system(*). It will improve performance of buggy code as well, rewritting it to accomodate your Bugless Needs(TM)(*).
* Not all of these features will be available with the initial release
This was a big deal considering how overpriced their low end hardware is. I had to purchase a new workstation for a new project. We're talking almost $2000 for a 500 MHz machine. Yeah. You heard that right. And it only came with Solaris 8. (Which, for those of you who don't know, has CDE for its GUI which is basically the motif interface from more than 12 years ago largely unchanged!) I know that Apple has a huge Apple-tax. But damn, the Sun-tax makes Apple seem like they are selling Walmart prices.
Yeah, yeah. I know. They are competitive on the high end. However the expense at the low end certainly must have some effect upon what is developed for the high end. Sun is so far behind the times. Their prices are ridiculous. Their speeds embarrassing. Their software is embarrassing as well. No wonder they are losing billions.
The Birdman flies in ANY weather...
This slashdot article is useless to me! It is long and technical.
No mention of SCO or Microsoft anywhere!
Who am I to rally against in my posts with my slashdot-trained, knee-jerk, simple-minded, insipid comments?
Quick! Someone submit an article where Linus makes fun of SCO or where Steve Ballmer mis-pronounces a word!
"If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
I always chuckle when I hear people using the term "military grade" for their products. That's a highly subjective definition, and it only means one thing for any product that advertises itself as such: that the military don't use it.
The security enhancements sound a bit like Microsoft's Trustworthy Computing Initiative. Didn't that start 2 years ago...
wish I could mod you -2, Fucking Idiot.
same reason people will pay for redhat enterprise solutions, i imagine. support if the sh*t hits the fan.
Wait until you see what is coming down the pipe from Sun. The new Athlon 64 workstations and servers will breathe new life into Solaris. For the first time you will be able to run a fully 64-bit kernel with all of the stability and reliability of Solaris, along with all of the advanced features of Solaris. Features like this won't even make their way into Linux for another 5 years or so.
Solaris 10 will be the first release of Solaris that supports native 64-bit mode on the new AMD Opteron and Athlon 64 processors.
Not to mention the ability to address terabytes of memory without using PAE hacks.
The only question in my mind is: Will you be able to run the IA-64 port of Solaris 10 on a home-built Athlon 64 box, or will it require Sun hardware to run?
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
(or "ayyyyy" like fonzie...)
George Clooney will still be in it by Solaris 10.
They just need a new producer and some better writers.
Why not include a driver for say some 3Com cards on the pci models. I have installed Linux on sun boxes just because Linux can use the hardware I give it. Solaris Can't.
Pay how much for Solaris? It is a free download for SPARC and $10 for x86
Apple couldn't do it. Instead they call it "OS/X". (See "Oh Sex" for a pronunciation guide)
RedHat couldn't do it. Instead they call it "Fedora Core 1". (Pronunciation? Don't bother)
but Sun can do it! Think of the possibilities, though...
They could have "Solaris X" as the Unix system, and "Solarux" as their Linux distro! What a way to leverage their brand name onto something that's unrelated, and works even better!
I mean.. talk about SEXY... you'd pronounce it "Solari-Sex"...
Well? Why couldn't they?
Wait.... Maybe, just maybe.... who could say "Solaris X" without saying "Solaris-Sucks"????
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
It looks like Sun is adding compelling new features that make Solaris 10 a more powerful alternative than Linux. I wonder if offering a better product is a valid business model. Seems like suing your competitors and their customers is cheaper (no pesky high-paid engineers) and ,uch better for the stock price. I'd suggest anyone investing SUNW should instead buy into a company with a proven business model like SCOX.
Sun by mistake made Solaris Express available for download in August, and I have been working with it since (including the monthly releases). However, to write something specific about Solaris Express you have to get your article cleared by Sun.
When you go to download it the first item in the click through user agreement is the NDA. The "What's new in Solaris Express" pdf files tell of new features, and they are released at the same time as the new release of Solaris Express. It would have been nice if they actually did a review as opposed to regurgitating the pdf files.In Soviet Russia, old jokes get tired of YOU !
Wow, that's the most blatant karma-whore I've seen in a while. Good job!
Maybe some prefer Solaris's binary compatibility, easy of use, and lack of up/backspace keys.
That's what I want: a free fire engine with every mainframe I buy. A nice Tonka fire engine would sway my decision towards Sun products, especially if they threw in a fire man's hat.
Woo hoo! Off to play with my toy trains!
Thank you for your time.
Sincerely yours,
The CTO of your company
That's "Mr. Soulless Automaton" to you, Bub.
People don't pay through the nose for the software. They pay through the nose for the hardware which is second to none IMHO. Where I work the AC went out in the datacenter over a weekend. Unfortunately, the first box to go down was the intel box that monitors everything else. On Monday the only boxes still running were the Sun boxes. It was over 120 degrees in the datacenter. It was approaching 200 degrees inside some of those Sun boxes.
Why would you want to pay through nose for a proprietary,
I suppose conforming to open API's doesn't count?
no-support,
I daresay Sun's support is broader and better than Red Hat's any day.
closed source *nix
So your real problem is that Sun doesn't give away all of their IP for free then, right? Sorry, but not everyone believes that the communal ideal of share and share alike is a viable business model.
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
Lots of cool sounding projects names, but I still don't see a lot of exciting features. I'm under the impression that Sun is still playing catch up with other major Unix players. Dtrace, a new monitoring tool ? Sheesh, these things are already implemented by most sysadmins. Oh, and we can now dynamically create soft partitions? God, LVM had this for years. Just try increasing a partition size under Solaris8 (or 9) with Disksuite, without switching to single user mode. In HP/UX or Linux, that's just 3 or 4 commands.
I remember going to a comdex eons ago and asking someone from the SUN booth about how they could afford giving away StarOffice (5.1, I think). I was told that SUN was primarily a hardware company, and that the more exposure they got, even from software, would create more hardware sales.
Then there was Linux (and BSD)...who pretty much popularized the *nix on x86 architecture and suddenly SUN was a wee bit worried. They tried Solaris 9 for x86, then pulled it back later on. They cozied up to Linux, then backpedaled by saying they're only offering it because customers asked for it. Then they ink a deal with China for oodles of their Java Desktop with Linux inside.
Now they have a feature list for Solaris 10 out. Does anyone else think that they're competing with themselves? If they're truly a hardware company, wouldn't they focus on Solaris 10, market their hardware for reliability, stability, yadda yadda, and just keep up the cobalt raqs for "low-end" servers?
They're not a software-as-a-service business model. They're not really even an OS Software "manufacturer" business. They're a hardware company who has tried their hand at everything from a programming language (Java), an office suite (staroffice), and OS/desktop (Solaris, Java Desktop).
When Linux pulls through, *nix systems that rely on non-x86 hardware are going to wither and die. So which is it, SUN? Are you with linux or against it? You can't keep talking out of both sides of your mouth for much longer.
is a copy of xbill included?
ajf
it's still where my control key should be. i haven't typed a capital letter for ages now and am getting tired of it now.
According to the related article, it includes a complete rewrite of the TCP/IP stack. Conventional wisdom has it that all TCP/IP stacks out there borrowed heavily from the BSD code.
Will Fire Engine then be the first non-BSD TCP/IP stack?
Or "wauka wauka" like Fozzie.
SCO.com uses Linux
Solaris's problems are not in robustness or scalability--it already handles those very well. Trouble is, so do Linux and BSD and a lot of other systems. Arguably, not as well as Solaris, but well enough.
By analogy, sure, a Ferrari is a nice car, but for a daily commute, a Honda Civic is both cheaper and more practical, and it really doesn't matter that it doesn't go as fast as the Ferrari in theory. With software like Solaris 10, Sun is creating ever more expensive Ferraris.
Yah and it's going to cost your left nutsack, or ovary if your a woman.
75% of all statistics are made up!
This is a case of people actually providing a product that gives the customers something new and exciting.
Bravo SUN. And they recognize Linux as having a place.
To be honest, I'd rather have a SUN monopoly than a MS monopoly. At least the software would be a bit more stable.
Should that be Zebibyte instead?
...this may be the release that adds speed.
[puts on tin foil cap]
Carousel is a lie!
I'm confused. I seem to have missed Solaris II thru IX. Were they any good? I liked the original Silaris; I thought Andrei Tarkhovksy (sp?) did a decent job.
That's an Apple trick from the Stone Age. In the meantime, while you're waiting for 'what's coming' just buy today another round of yesterday's hardware at tomorrow's prices.
Good thing Sun is in America, where management has the right to run the company into the ground. In a facist dictatorship, Sun's board would be put up against a wall.
I always did like the Sun color scheme though. Thanks Frog Design...
They skipped Yottabyte, and went right to Zetabyte!
Fantastic! I want one!
Solaris 9 is freely downloadable to use on single CPU boxes.
This is exactly the same Solaris 9 that you would run on an SMP box, but the license to run it for free doesn't apply on those machines.
Oh, and it doesn't matter if you use only 1 CPU on a system that supports, lets say, 4. You still have to pay for the license on those machines, even if you never install more than 1 CPU.
Solaris is better than Linux in terms of performance. Sun hardware, however, is slow. So Solaris on x86 is the best of both worlds. Sun Opteron running Solaris will kick ass
I ran a beta here at work, and an ex-girlfriend and a couple dead grandparents appeared. Then I saw George Clooney. It was wild, man.
Yeah.. George Clooney is only in the latest version, though.
All in all, I wouldn't say it's worth the upgrade, even if the old one only had russian-language support.
So Solaris gets capabilies. Only, what, five years after Linux? And they finally abandon that obsolete slow-as-molasses file system of theirs? The level of technology leadership they are displaying is nothing short if breathtaking!1!!
On a lighter node, the article says their current partitioning scheme is software based. Good to know. Fits well in the general impression I got from them, with their shell script based "high availability" solution, and their industry leading "backup" solutions. There really is no need to know more than this about Sun and their software.
Long live admintool!
That's "Zettabyte", guys, not "Zetabyte", as the referenced article correctly states, too. Now go and write down the SI prefixes 100 times.
quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
I was a computer operator on a carrier long long ago. The computer room was two decks under the flight deck, right under the arresting gear ... pretty high up. My abandon ship station was to take a fire ax and whack the computer. I guess that old supply computer had too much vital technology. It wasn't the data in the computer, because it had no permanent storage, it was a tape operating system, and my job did not include whacking the tapes. So they were more concerned with the enemy capturing our carrier and recovering the computer technology than recovering the records of how much toilet paper we used. Must have been the water tight seals around the tape drive doors -- they claimed it could operate under water, tho how deep I never heard. And being so high up, 40 or so feet above the waterline ... if that had ever gotten under water, I wasn't planning on being the duty operator.
Infuriate left and right
Birds of a feather...
i have Win9x Redhat9 and SuSE9 multi-booting and took 98lite and ripped the guts out of Win98 and rarely use it anymore, since SzuSuck (Redhat's CEO) shoved both feet down his throat all the way up to his knees about Linux & Windoze and the whole computer industry i am now looking for an alternative Linux distro and may have found it in SuSE as SuSE-9 seems to be better than Mandrake-9.2, my Sun box is usually just dead weight anymore, maybe i will try Sun's Linux distro when they get up to release #9
Exactly where can you download Solaris 9 x86 from?
e t. html
I'd love to play with it but I can't seem to find a FREE download link on their site. They want either $20 or $95 for a media kit by mail.
http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris/binaries/g
Are you an open source warrior?
Do you live in reality or in a fantasy world? Because it sure looks like reality to me what you just said. I think you forgot to take your Linux pills last night.
You're right, zetabyte is clearly a buzzword, while zettabyte is totally different. A zettabyte is 2^70 bytes or (in the notation of hard drive manufacturers) 10^21 bytes (1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000).
And for the record (biggest to smallest):
yottabyte (2^80 bytes)
zettabyte (2^70 bytes)
exabyte (2^60 bytes)
petabyte (2^50 bytes )
terabyte (2^40 bytes )
gigabyte (2^30 bytes)
"It's getting cold in the office. Open the door to the server room!"
"Oh, Sammy's already in there. Dev1 crashed again, huh? Still, we saved money going AMD."
That'll get some marketing heads turning.
Fuck Beta. Fuck Dice
I was hoping for a yotta byte capable filesystem.
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
/opt. As with solaris 9, the tools necessary to remove packages once they have been installed will not be installed by default. Their use is depricated, and not-documented accordingly.
SUN MICROSYSTEMS INC, SUNNYVALE, CALIFORNIA
(Press Release: 11/25/2003)
In keeping with other solaris upgrade traditions, such as the replacement of vi with the venerable ed as the default editor, Sun Microsystems has announced several additional improvements to their core Solaris unix tools.
ed will be downb-graded to version 1.0.1. New features in the current are viewed to be too advanced for most users, and this move will simplify the interface. In particular, the confusing ">" prompt will be replaced with the vastly simplified "" (empty) prompt.
tar is being down-graded to version 0.55.1, removing numerous confusing command line arguments.
gzip is being removed in favor of compress.
ssh will be replaced by the much-streamlined 'crypt' command.
Package mangement is being further upgraded, with even more byzantine options for installing those binary packages in
To compensate for the added complexity of the next revision of Sun's package management tools, the overall Solaris 10 environment will be further simplified by the immediate removal of ls, more, nad grep. These archaic commands are deemed extraneous and detractiving from the core performance improvements and ease-of-use enhancements of the Solaris 10 operating system.
Administrators who feel the need for these redundant tools can download their GNU equivelents from the usual locations, provided they have first paid Sun the $10,500 developers fee (per seat)...compiler not included.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
DTrace == Kernel Profiling!
"Fire Engine" TCP/IP stack == Linux's TCP/IP stack + hardware crypography drivers
Solaris Zones ("Project Kevlar") == User Mode Linux
"Military grade" security as standard == pluggable security policies.
ZFS (Zettabyte File System) =? This one might be new...
Infiniband, NFS v4, "Atomic Operations", NUMA optimisations yup yup yup yup
"Clustrex" single-node fail-over as standard, "FMA/Greenline" self-healing and fault management,
BART, and more security/authentication features.
too vague.
And all these features are available in Linux on more platforms than Solaris.
It does sound like it, except Microsoft's "Trustworthy Computing" is like any PR campaign - it's more about convincing the public to think you're organization is doing something about x problem, as opposed to fixing the problem and being happy the press isn't on you're back.
A positive example of Microsoft security would be Xbox Live. Microsoft is full aware of modders running cracked games off their Xbox's upgraded hard drives. But all you have to do to play a modded Xbox on Live is to turn off the modchip while on Live, and use an official game disc. But you dont' see the Xbox division bragging about how they keep cheaters using modded Xbox's off Live, do you?
All the talk lately has been about how Sun is on the fast-track to irrelevance, getting creamed from below by Windows and Linux, and from above by IBM. They splashed onto the scene years ago by being "faster, cheaper, and better" than DEC etc., and now that they are no longer any of those three, it's unclear what they offer - other than Java, which, while interesting, isn't part of their core "mid-to-high-range" server business. A lot of idiotic hot air about thin clients and network computing hasn't helped matters.
So are they going to go the way of DEC? Perhaps soon Gateway or Dell will be interested in an acquisition? Who knows. There are some things that look like signs of life, though.
One is dealing with AMD. This is very smart for both companies. Sun will package their excellent new chip in well-reputed new lavender-and-white boxes, and customers will run "Linux or Solaris." If they can do this cheaply enough, this could finally be a competitive angle for new business, on the low end...
But the "Linux or Solaris" is the interesting point. Right now Sun seems to make its money selling hardware and software (read: Solaris). Traditionally Linux - which is surely eating their breakfast, lunch, and dinner - has been Sun Enemy #2 (right behind Mr. Bill). And yet Linux may be exactly what they need - an open platform upon which to build a Sun-branded infrastructure that is "better, faster, and cheaper" than the competition.
And you get the feeling that some inside Sun, at least, know this. But clearly others do not. And the fight goes on, and on... and you get things like this:
The net result seems likely to be that Sun will promote Solaris ahead of Linux ("cheaper and better") except to customers who already have a large Linux installed base or they specifically want Linux solutions. For Sun customers with SPARC servers, using the same operating system across all servers would make life simpler as well - less complexity means lower TCO. By the end of the year, Sun also plans to publish benchmarks showing Solaris x86 matching, and in some cases beating, Linux on identical hardware.
This is an article detailing a strong feature-offensive against Linux - trying to make Solaris into a superiour solution that people will pay a premium for.
But I am wondering if this is such a good idea. Why not adopt Linux, and contribute this work to it, rather than try to compete with it?
The scenario with the sparc chip and the Opteron is perhaps an object lesson. It takes billions to keep your hand in the chip game. Sun is perhaps not in a very good position to continue to spend that money. The AMD move looks like the first step in a viable exit strategy. Partner with a chipmaker - a "cheaper, better, and faster" one like AMD - since the economics of trying to beat them all don't look as good.
Take Sun's software shop. While well-honed for its common uses, any given little piece of Sun's proprietary Unix fork is generally sub-par - from their SSH implementation (just found a bug in that the other day) to their shell. Clearly it is not Sun's highest priority to deal with all these little Unix details. So most people pile on open-source solutions to make it livable. But then where is the support? Yes, the world still tolerates this state of affairs while tending to their Apache and Oracle servers... but for how much longer?
Could Sun become a "services company" in the mold of IBM and Redhat, "building solutions" with AMD and Linux for the server market that are cheaper and better than competitors? Isn't there money to be made "just making these things work" for all segments of the server market - building and supporting? Wouldn't they be well positioned to do it?
In a sense this seems like a hedge. They will try to do both - package Linux and support their Solaris business. They may be waiting to see which one will thrive; they may think it's better to be in both games. But does that make sense, even now? They are hemorrhaging ca
Want to Know How to Cheat the GPL? Read On!
Accepting for the sake of argument that a SolariX/Opteron system will be more secure, featureful, stable, and pretty than a DIY Linux/Opteron box, will it really be so much better that people will actually pay significant extra money for it?
Compared to, say, a 2.6 based linux box with an SMP Opteron board.
The entry level server market is a low margin minefield, and I'm not sure folks are going to want to pay for stuff (extra securty, huge filesystem support, a Sun badge on the case, etc.) they don't think they're going to need.
How many times does someone have to clarify the point that the linux kernel's TCP/IP stack has been rewritten AT LEAST once since it had BSD roots?
And we are to ignore VxWorks as well? It's stack is specially designed for embedded workloads.
Then there's Cisco's OS. Oh, and Windows NT 5.x stack is completely different than the BSD one. It's just the sockets interface that's grafted on top of it that carried some Berkerley copyrights.
Now that I think about it, it seems that only operating systems using the BSD TCP/IP stack are the BSDs themselves! (MacOSX included)
Fuck Beta. Fuck Dice
"...no-support..."
Are you on crack? Most of the businesses I know that use Solaris do so entirely BECAUSE Sun has better support than anyone else out there, with those exceptions when they make you sign an NDA to find out about a problem that they cannot fix.
Who marked this as a troll? What's trollish about it? Solaris is the industry standard for high performance unix. I've worked on solaris, AIX,HP-UX, and Redhat, and I'd say that solaris gives me the least headaches. Any why did grandparent even mention support? No support in linux, aside from mailing lists. One can pay for support, a la Redhat, but that debunks that argument now doesn't it.
Sun makes money off of selling sun systems and support. I've found that they are as responsive as asking questions on a open source mailing list, without the RTFM comments. They make programming on their platform a really good experience. The documentation on their website is light years from microsoft and (though it is very dear to me) the linux documentation project.
As somebody else said, use the right tool for the job. I like linux alot. I run it at home. But it is not the catch-all solve-all operating system. I has its uses and weaknesses, but the reasons why to use solaris over linux are very numberous.
Why, o why must the sky fall when I've learned to fly?
With the cheaper cost of running Linux on i386 why would anyone want to pay $500K for a Sun 4800 when they can buy a truckload of i386 servers for that price??? Solaris is dying just as BSD is dying and SCO is dead.
Oops, I meant that "Solaris 9 SPARC" is downloadable for free.
:)
I don't know for certain about the x86 version, but as far as I've heard it is correct that you cannot download it except for a fee.
(Quick check) -- yes, it is available on the Edonkey p2p network. Of course I think one has to have a proper license in order to download and use it.
After reading the article, I was mildly enthused about the coming of a new version of Solaris. The promised feature set seemed quite exciting, for the user, programmer, and administrator in me.
And I don't support Sun unless there's no other option.
Meanwhile I only have feelings of dread about Longhorn, even if it will be much easier to come by.
Perhaps that's why I dread it.
I hope a free-for-home-use license for it becomes available...
Fuck Beta. Fuck Dice
zetabyte shit sounds like we finally have zetatalk technology in solaris.
whats solaris for a product name anyways. sounds like that mindboggling and lunatic movie with mister george clooney from last year....
hehe, welcome the aliens on earth at last. sun needs zeta technology to be able to survive linux.
i bet linux will make them zetas run for their little lives.
what do u guys expect? death from the death-STAR
SunSuxSeverly
you should really turn on logging... it increases the speed threefold. It's retarded that they don't shout it across the hills (you have to stumble across it in the manpages or newsgroups). just add "logging" to the mount options in vfstab.
Fuck Beta. Fuck Dice
It will be amusing to see how Sun's implementation of TCP Offload engines turns out. This is a technology in which much has been invested, with little to show for it. If TOE's were useful, the marketplace would be abuzz with them. But it isn't, and this has failed.
The current tracks with Linux seem to be far more useful, like TCP segment offload.
So I'm surprised that Sun has wasted time and money on this. It's a good marketing buzzword; but it's just smoke and mirrors, with no real substance.
IrrelevantOvepricedOS 2004+ ez-EXTREME.
jack's bicycle is music to my ears
Yeah, its not like IBM wants a viable business model.
Besides, SCO owns the IP at sun, not sun.
SPARC and UNIX are not proprietary, yet there are proprietary implementations of those families of standards. The vendors of those implementations most definitely provide as much support as your wallet can handle, even for Linux. As for source, Sun made Solaris 8 source available to those who wanted it, only you needed their compiler to build it.
Sun isn't Microsoft, by any measure. Sun's architectures and interfaces are more open than anything from Intel and Microsoft combined.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
> > "When your only tool is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail".
> When your only tool is an axe, every problem starts to look like hours of fun.
When your only tool is a shotgun, every problem starts to look for the closest exit.
No matter how many of my rights are taken away, somehow I still don't feel safe. -Frigid Monkey
But you can't. Ha! You are utterly impotent and powerless! :-P
--- Ban humanity.
Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery.
Praying for someone's recovery doesn't mean their drug use wasn't criminal. Rush went in to rehab, just like countless "artists" out in Hollywood. Had you rather he be prosecuted for drug use while coke inhalers out in California go unprosecuted?
The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.
We should get out of the UN. It's plain they don't have our best interest at heart, and it's debatable whether or not the UN brass wants to harm the USA. Currently, though, we're in the UN, so we'll work through them.
Government should relax regulation of Big Business and Big Money but crack down on individuals who use marijuana to relieve the pain of illness.
Regulations are Socialist measures. Big corporations use the laws designed to ensure competition to their advantage. None of this makes marijuana any less illegal to possess or use.
"Standing Tall for America" means firing your workers and moving their jobs to India.
There's no association to Republicans here, but if there wasn't a minimum wage here (Democrats), then companies could afford to hire untrained workers in the United States. Just because someone learns a programming language and can write code in it doesn't make them ``trained,'' either.
A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.
Aborting a fetus is killing a child, although someone as morally corrupt as a liberal won't understand that. Regulating multi-national corporations would have to be done by a global regulatory body, meaning that the world would be a Socialist world. Try to understand that nobody in the USA wants this. People have died to prevent it.
Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.
Homosexuality itself is wrong. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love them. This has nothing to do with some woman who doesn't think that President Bush is doing a bad enough job as President to oppose him in 2004.
The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.
Veterans' benefits are the result of a very Socialist structure, and it's quite difficult to maintain a Socialist structure. Cutting veterans' benefits is wrong, but you're daft if you think it's only Republicans doing it.
Group sex and drug use are degenerate sins unless you someday run for governor of California as a Republican.
Thanks to the super liberal majority of SoCal, all of California elected Arnold Schwarzenegger as governer. If California was divided into Northern California and SoCal, which governership do you think Schwarzenegger would've run for?
If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.
It's not the job of schools to teach this stuff to children. This is even more important these days because of the liberal control of the public school system. I'm sure you'd favor teaching grade schoolers about homosexuality as a ``life choice.''
A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our long-time allies, then demand their cooperation and money.
You're probably talking about France. France has proven themselves to be fair weather friends, but certainly not allies. We do have many actual allies with us in the Iraq issue though.
HMOs and insurance companies have the interest of the public at heart.
And Socialist laws requiring companies to provide health insurance won't feed the pockets of insurance companies and HMOs? Back in the day, a physician could tell if you
...sun has made a big deal of simplifying price lists recently - if they cut solaris prices to below redhat/ibm equivalents, does that matter?
I see alot of posts here talking about the features that Solaris has the Linux does not. What exactly are those features? Not that I don't think they exists, I'm aware of the high end features that an E10K or E15K have but how does that apply to Linux, since linux doesn't usually play in that realm. As far as Solaris playing with Linux on the low end, they've got a long way to go, have you ever seen decent fonts in Solaris? if so please tell me how to make them look good. And I'm not just talking about desktops, but also low end servers. Apache and perl weren't included with the standard distro until Solaris 8 and perl was compiled with Sun's C compiler making it impossible to add alot of modules unless you had that compiler. When will they add python? Anyone whose admined a Solaris box with tell you that you have to replace alot of Sun tools with their gnu versions. If Solaris were free, I wouldn't choose it over Linux for 90% of my tasks. I do work on Solaris and use Linux on my desktop. I do integration of network management software on Solaris and use it on a regular basis. I've admined Solaris machines for a county library that ran their collection software on Solaris (2.5.1). So I have some experience, but please tell me why Solaris won't be relegated (sp?) to a niche market in the future.
>>The original poster was referring to soft partitioning as a function of SVM/Disksuite
Yes, he was. Thats why in my response to him I said (soft partitions are for grown ups, and have nothing to do with disks). The article only had one reference to soft partitions, and it was in now way shape or form connected to either disksuite or solaris volume manager.
In the article that is linked from slashdot, the word partition is only used once, and here is where:
"Solaris Zones ("Project Kevlar") A next generation of the software based partitions in Solaris"
You should know as well as I do that the zones have nothing to do with disks. This is a virtual os copy that runs on hardware. I'm trying to point out that the original poster doesn't know what he's talking about.
Now, a time out for you, young man, and no dessert tonight. If you behave, Mistress might give you a spanking.
--- Ban humanity.
FOR IMMEDIATE RE-RELEASE
/opt. As with solaris 9, the tools necessary to remove packages once they have been installed will not be installed by default. Their use is depricated, and not-documented accordingly.
SUN MICROSYSTEMS INC, SUNNYVALE, CALIFORNIA
(Press Release: 11/25/2003)
In keeping with other solaris upgrade traditions, such as the replacement of vi with the venerable ed as the default editor, Sun Microsystems has announced several additional improvements to their core Solaris unix tools.
ed will be downb-graded to version 1.0.1. New features in the current are viewed to be too advanced for most users, and this move will simplify the interface. In particular, the confusing ">" prompt will be replaced with the vastly simplified "" (empty) prompt.
tar is being down-graded to version 0.55.1, removing numerous confusing command line arguments.
gzip is being removed in favor of compress.
ssh will be replaced by the much-streamlined 'crypt' command.
Package mangement is being further upgraded, with even more byzantine options for installing those binary packages in
To compensate for the added complexity of the next revision of Sun's package management tools, the overall Solaris 10 environment will be further simplified by the immediate removal of ls, more, nad grep. These archaic commands are deemed extraneous and detractiving from the core performance improvements and ease-of-use enhancements of the Solaris 10 operating system.
Administrators who feel the need for these redundant tools can download their GNU equivelents from the usual locations, provided they have first paid Sun the $10,500 developers fee (per seat)...compiler not included.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Ah....I see. It's a terminology issue. The author used the "software based partitions" phrase to describe zones/containers, but the original poster confused it with soft partitioning, which is a SVM/ODS term. Better to have called it logical partitioning, like the rest of the UNIX world calls them.
We're on the same page...if not everyone else.
Rule #1 -- Politics always trumps technology.
Is it just me or does a lot of what Sun is doing remind you of what SGI went through in the high-end visualization market a few years back?
Obviously things are not DIRECTLY equatable but I can't stop thinking about the comparison.
Couldnt you say that in both cases that their niche erroded due to low or no cost competitors?
Both had some great software. Could Sun having Solaris and Java be somewhat equateble to SGI's OpenGL and Irix?
Both companies had hardware at the heart of their business models at one point.
Sun seems to be doing what SGI did in trying to do a bunch of different things to pull itself out while in the process losing focus and STILL having hardware at the heart of the business model.
SGI is obviously still around. If you look at their website now, you can see they are targetting a much smaller niche than they used to (supercomputers). The day of thinking that an o2 will be on the desk of every college student has long passed. I'm sure SGI never thought they would be promoting Linux-based supercomputers on their homepage 5 years ago - lord only knows what Sun will have on theirs homepage 5 years hence.
-_-
Fucking baby killer
Considering your maturity is that of a baby, I guess I somehow missed you, eh?
Infuriate left and right
Dont make me laugh..
I guess that means they are finally disabling
by default the discard, echo, chargen, and
daytime services?
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
Is there any official definition of what "Military Grade" means? Does the fact that it is used by the Military automatically mean it is "Military Grade".
I'm starting to think that "Military Grade" is about to join the ranks of such descriptors as "Low-Fat", "Broadcast Quality", "New and Improved" and "Internet Ready".
-_-
...Windows isn't worth it unless your time is free.
when did I miss episodes 2 through 9?
You can't handle the truth.
dtrace looks fantastic. Solaris already has the best system monitoring tools around (at least that I've seen) but this looks so sweet.
ZFS seems nice too. What I'd really like to see is VxFS by default, but that's not likely to happen. (I'd also *really* like to see a version VxVM bundled to replace DiskSuite.... yeh, right)
The only other change I'd make is to kick GNOME out and have KDE be the new GUI, but once again, not a chance.
Good to see Sun coming out with some nice new stuff. It's been kind of disappointing how little the core OS has really gained over the last few versions.
Apollo hit ten, almost .. Domain/IX was followed by Domain/OS, but the software release number hit SR 10.4.
But that's when Apollo died. Maybe they're one of the examples of the "release ten curse"?
Why not refer to it as AMD64? :)
AMD64 is easier to say, and looks better in print than x86-64.
I don't think you can find anyone who would say "AMD64 what's that?", nor do I think most sensible people would say "AMD64? What are you talking about??? Ohhhhh you mean x86-64".
However, the stupidity of the average person never ceases to amaze me.
But then I also say "I have a 2GHz AMD CPU" instead of "I have an AuthenticAMD cpu family 6, model 8 stepping 1 running at 1995.842MHz".... so maybe I'm just a lazy person.
Sounds a lot like PCP, which SGI ported from IRIX to Linux a couple of years ago. I haven't used the Linux version, but the IRIX version of PCP gives point-and-click access to 1000's of kernel metrics.
In any case, it will be a nice addition to Solaris.
'...something called "Atomic Operations" (a set of tools or programming libraries?)..'
:)
Either someone at Ace's Hardware or Suns marketing-deparment needs to take a CS course
When did George Clooney find the time to make nine sequels?
I have to ask what the hell this comment is all about? Sun has never made any moves on changing the name of Solaris just because they reached version 10.
1) create a file system snapshot using fssnap and back that up.
/your/volume
2)
mount -o remount,ro,nologging
backup
then remount,rw,logging
The remount will cause the log to be finalized, buffers flushed. You are advised to remount ro if you want ufsdump to have the highest chance of success (it can still fail if logging is disable, but it still is mounted rw)
Fuck Beta. Fuck Dice
Since when do disclaimers follow the message (aside from email trailers)?
[i realize this is not nearly as much fun as playing guessing games and pissing on sun]
hope this helps...(but hope springs eternal)
nous
Mentat TCP is a high-performance, fully compliant, STREAMS-based implementation of the TCP/IP protocol suite.
Originally written for Sun Microsystems, Mentat TCP forms the base of the native TCP/IP stack on Solaris.
6. What is the lineage of Mentat TCP? Is it based on BSD code?
Mentat TCP was written from scratch by Mentat in order to create a high-performance, portable implementation of TCP/IP for STREAMS.
You sir, are an offense to all that is good in the world.
Please find a way to remove yourself from the domain of the living as expediently as possible so the rest of us can get on with doing something constructive towards the betterment of mankind.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds that to be the more desirable option here, rather than wasting our time listening to you defend the morally bankrupt ideas and policies of a wealthy elite class that enshrines such laudable concepts as the destruction of personal freedoms, war for profit, and granting corporations all the rights of citizenship while asking them (or their officers) to bear none of the responsibilities.
And if you're so willing to spew forth this sort of bile-inducing rhetoric here, at least have the stones to take your (-1, offtopic) and put your name to it.
sigs are for suckers
Apple have been using Mentat's TCP for some time now. From memory, since ~ OpenTransport 2.x.
Read for more info >> Open Transport (and Mentat) History
IBM's business model isn't "share and share alike" it's "the first hit is free (as in beer)".
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
went to see about the free solaris 9 download a few days ago. Actualy read through the license agreement until I got up to this gem:
(j) Notice of Automatic Downloads. You acknowledge that, by your use of Software and/or requesting services that require use of Software, Software may automatically download, install, and execute software applications from sources other than Sun ("Other Software"). Sun makes no representations of a relationship of any kind to licensors of Other Software. TO THE EXTENT NOT PROHIBITED BY LAW, IN NO EVENT WILL SUN OR ITS LICENSORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY LOST REVENUE, PROFIT OR DATA, OR FOR SPECIAL, INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES, HOWEVER CAUSED REGARDLESS OF THE THEORY OF LIABILITY, ARISING OUT OF OR RELATED TO THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE OTHER SOFTWARE, EVEN IF SUN HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
Fuck that.
-Justin
You sir, are an offense to all that is good in the world.
The standard liberal party line is that there is no such thing as good or evil. Your statement is amusing in this context.
Please find a way to remove yourself from the domain of the living as expediently as possible so the rest of us can get on with doing something constructive towards the betterment of mankind.
You suggest that I'm not good, but wish death upon me? Hypocrisy much?
rather than wasting our time listening to you defend the morally bankrupt ideas and policies of a wealthy elite class [...]
It's the political left that's morally bankrupt. That's the way it's always been. It's also true that the Socialist Utopia that most Democrats pine for would be a realization of a class system in America. Liberals are the ones that believe only a certain class of people should be able to own firearms, liberals are the ones that push for licensing and registration for everything so that the proletariat can be tracked, liberals are the ones that push for indoctrination of children inside the Socialist public school system, and liberals are the ones that push for further integration into the UN (in a global nation, UN staffers will be the equivalent of nobility). You're just uninformed or purposefully trying to muddy the waters here.
[...] wealthy elite class that enshrines such laudable concepts as the destruction of personal freedoms, war for profit, and granting corporations all the rights of citizenship while asking them (or their officers) to bear none of the responsibilities.
These are not traits of Republicans. The ``war for profit'' comment can be simply disregarded. There's never been a case of this happening in the USA. That officers of corporations have no responsibilities to the shareholders is bothersome, but not a Republican creation. It's a feature of bureaucracy: "Don't blame the police officers, they're just doing their job. Don't blame the police chiefs, they're just doing their job. Don't blame the commissioner, it's you that elected the representitive that made the law." Major shareholders of corporations handle those situations. Regulating the process at a government level would be Socialism again. Is it right that investors in a company have no say in how it's run?
Finally, that you think it's Republicans destroying personal freedom is offensive. I want to be able to spend the money I earn on myself and my family, instead of having to pay for some junkie's methadone treatments. It's the liberals of the USA that would turn this country into a Socialist nation with most of the citizens just workers turning a cog (while the rest of the citizens are decision makers in an upper class).
And if you're so willing to spew forth this sort of bile-inducing rhetoric here, at least have the stones to take your (-1, offtopic) and put your name to it.
It's a commonly held liberal notion that an argument can't stand on its own; it has to be attached to a name so that there's somebody to slander. I don't have a slashdot login, but if you really need to talk to me, I'm a citizen of the United States, and my views are similar to that of the majority of the people in this nation.
Cool!, they are realising a new version of their OS, but they don't fix they previous realises! ... not only in their SunOS / Solaris Line, but they have forgotten too about they Sun Cobalt GNU/Linux products, and haven't realised a patch in months!!!. We were just sick of Hacking their control panel to make it work with the updates we did to the server, so we just migrated .... Many times we just hit m$ shit, but it's obviously a general propietary software problem. When you are granted by the law to show no especifications, provide customers a "no warranty" agreement as if it was free software, charge wherever you want for it, and after 2 years forgot you ever developed that product, tell people to fuck off, and just sell your new product ... well .. it's really easy to make business that way.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
solaris 10 is neat.
I just downloaded 9 for evaluation, and they're talking 10 already?? It's getting to feel like the hoopla for Linux kernel minor point releases... Anyway, every place I've ever worked at that has Sparc gear is running mostly 2.6 and some 8. Never saw 7 in production; I've got an unopned box of it on my shelf. Maybe if Oracle 10g takes off we'll see Solaris 9 & 10 out there more.........
As a SUN employee, it is good to hear feedback that documentation and tools fill the needs of part of the community. Computers are obviously complicated general purpose tools, and thus will have a wider range of uses than your average physical artifact. Managing complexity can be accomplished by increasing options or by decreasing complexity. Clearly trouble occurs when tools conquer complex problems with little flexibility, or when they force too many decisions to accomplish a simple task: ease of use is diminished in both cases. Often times the cost of training a person to use a complex computing system outweighs the gains won by a more efficient or reliable system. For some people, ease of use means a system they don't need to administer and can replace cheaply, while others may want or require minute control of every aspect of the system. In the end, the decision on TCO must factor in reliability both in terms of the hardware/software and the wetware of the admins and end users. When making these decisions, it is best to remember that it is not the right tool if you can't learn how to use it.
ACMD eht detaloiv evah uoy
Hey, my tool is a chopper ...
*bite*
That's right kids, being told to RTF Source Code by an elitist stranger on a mailing list two weeks after you gave up and did something else is far better support that having a rational professional tech support group on a direct line.
I don't know why I fed you really. I troll enough myself to spot when somebody else is fishing :)
Congratulations, IHBT, IHL HAND
OK, how come nobody has mentioned SCO?
First, let me say that I like Solaris a lot. In general, I prefer the SYSV approach to the BSD approach.
But there's no way I would deploy Solaris anywhere right now, because it seems as though Sun's right to support it is dependent on the crackheads at SCO. Sun gave in to SCO, which suggests to me that Sun themselves believe they must license SCO's IP to be legal. SCO have already shown that they'll gladly try to yank the license from anyone they don't like, so it seems to me you'd have to be crazy to bet the farm on Solaris right now.
Imagine--SCO need more cash. They say to Sun "Well, sorry, but you need to stop supporting Solaris by shipping code that's our property, unless you pay us... ooh, One BILLION Dollars! Mwahahaha..." Suddenly Sun is fighting a huge lawsuit. Maybe an injunction is granted to stop them shipping SCO code, and suddenly you're looking at migrating your entire Solaris infrastructure to something else, or running it without support.
Sure, once SCO are out of business, things will be peachy again. But right now?
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
1) Become an Linux consultant.
2) Preach Linux.
3) Profit !!!
And when that fad goes Ack! Phfft!!
1) Become in Solaris consultant.
2) Preach Solaris.
3) Profit !!!