Xbox Emulator Plays Retail Game

Ryan M. Pamplin writes "The critically acclaimed Xbox Emulator, CXBX, has made its way into Xbox history. Caustik has announced that "Turok Evolution" is now playable at real-time speed with comparable graphics to the Xbox while utilizing nearly the same graphics hardware found within the Xbox itself. The development of CXBX will continue to advance at rapid pace. Expect many additional titles to become playable upon the release of the next binary in the near future. A DivX video, binary, and GPL'ed source is available at the website."

Comments

Oh boy..

[ebob9]

From the site: "I have put up some google ad links above to generate some support. The last sizeable donation has gone towards a development box for Sop Skrutt, and in the future it will help reimburse Xbox-Scene.com who is kind enough to host us (including the above rather large and expensive to host AVI file)." My condolences on your host's soon-to-be-slashdoted-to-hell server.

Re:Oh boy..

[cptgrudge]

I find it extremely ironic that the google ads I saw were for "XBox Accessories" and "XBox at Sears", two things that are most definately not needed with an XBox emulator.

Re:Oh boy..

[jdavidb]

Actually, I can see how you might want XBox Accessories, if that means buying a controller that might one day interface with the emulator. Sure beats keyboard control, at least for emulators I've played.

Re:Oh boy..

[arvindn]

Hey, this is slashdot. You have to pretend that everyone goes out and buys an XBox after "sampling" some games using the emulator, OK? ;^)

Re:Oh boy..

[mriker]

If the dude doesn't have the smarts to put up a .torrent for the movie, I have no pity for him.

Re:Oh boy..

[Havokmon]

I find it extremely ironic that the google ads I saw were for "XBox Accessories" and "XBox at Sears", two things that are most definately not needed with an XBox emulator.

That's what Google ads do. I run an email service, and I ended up blocking 95% of the 'relevant' ads because they were competitors.

Google REALLY needs to work on their adsense system.

Re:Oh boy..

[Bitmanhome]

Current ad is "Copy all your Xbox games". Most definitly applicable to an emulator..

Piracy concerns

[Space cowboy]

With the games possibly (depending on how good the emulator gets..) now having a far wider audience, there'll be a far larger demand for P2P downloads. I wonder if the MS anti-piracy protection will be up to the job - it certainly seems pretty simple to run games on 'modded' xboxes - I wonder if they've been depending on the fact that the games are designed for the console only to protect them from rampant copying...

And I bet that new releases will have to pass an internal 'breaks the emulator' test before they're let out into the wild (it'll only mean the emulator has to cope with the differences, of course...)

Simon.

Re:Piracy concerns

[Jace of Fuse!]

While Piracy IS a negative side effect of all this, there is no reason why it has to be all about piracy.

There are plenty of people who would just LOVE to play XBox games on their PCs.

If this means just sticking an XBox game in their PC and firing up a good game through an Emulator, I don't see anything at all wrong with this.

Legally, though, I'm sure Microsoft would differe in opinion, but if it were to actually increase games sales I don't know how they could really have too much to complain about.

Re:Piracy concerns

[lazuli42]

I thought I remembered Microsoft having plans to make streamed games available via XBox Live. Also, Yahoo has some type of games service where you can download and 'rent' the game.

If the future of video games is streaming then piracy of this sort will only be a temporary problem. When you get your games on demand things will change significantly.

In fact, you could almost still have an install disk with 99% of the game's resources on it and only stream watermarked and timestamped libraries once the game gets ready to execute.

Re:Piracy concerns

[Moofie]

Of course there's nothing wrong with it. What does tha have to do with Microsoft landing on these poor saps with both feet?

Re:Piracy concerns

[DroopyStonx]

It'll just take a few hours before a patch is released for something like that.

*Nothing* is invulnerable. Sony thought DNAS (Dynamic Network Authentication System that checks games prior to going online to see if they're copies and/or the system has been modded) was invulnerable, but that's been cracked.

These companies need to face it: you can spend all the money you want on trying to prevent people from copying games/modding their systems, but there is always, and will always be, a way around it. Along with that thought: not everyone will take part in the piracy/downloading.

Re:Piracy concerns

[MikeXpop]

Let me put it simply. Here are some facts.

Microsoft takes a loss on each Xbox sold.
MS does this hoping the profit from games will overcome loss on hardware.
This emulator allows people to run Xbox games without buying an Xbox.

MS can only benefit from this. The only reason I'd see to defend against it is if Microsoft didn't want people playing them on PCs and instead on consoles. But that's kind of a dumb reason.

Re:Piracy concerns

[hawkbug]

You're forgetting one important thing M$ would lose on: revenue from games because they can now be pirated and played... without a modchipped console. People can just copy them from a friend and play them on a computer that contains no piracy check. Expect M$ to come down on this product like a 10 ton sledge hammer.... I'm not saying it's right, but that's what they will do.

Re: Piracy concerns

[mwronski]

...I wonder if they've been depending on the fact that the games are designed for the console only to protect them from rampant copying...

I am sure this is the exact reason. There are multiple layers of copy protection on the XBOX now, DVD Format unreadable, MS Signed executables, etc.

If M$ could have that kind of protection on standard PC hardware they would have released their own emu and sell games to PC and XBOX owners at a huge cost savings.

Re:Piracy concerns

[the_consumer]

Um, I thought the X-Box was a loss leader. They should be happy there's an emulator, it improves their share of games sold but doesn't cost them a dime.

Re:Piracy concerns

[log0n]

"There are plenty of people who would just LOVE to play XBox games on their PCs."

Argh.. more of this 'I physically can therefore I should' mentality. If you want to play an xbox game, then BUY the xbox to play it.. OR if you don't want to buy an xbox, you cope with doing without the game.

It's as simple as that. There's so much rationalizing of why it's ok to break 'the rules' now.

Mod me down, I feel curmudgeony today!

Re:Piracy concerns

[Moofie]

They don't sell the X-Box to sell games.

They sell the X-Box to control the gaming market.

If there are emulators, they can not control the market.

See?

Re:Piracy concerns

[Jaysyn]

Product? Is it for sale?

Jaysyn

Re:Piracy concerns

[gl4ss]

by definition all games ran on that emu are copied. ..so the 'protection' if you could even say that one existed is broken.

Re:Piracy concerns

[Darren Winsper]

Care to point me to "the rule" that states I *must* have an XBox to play a game? Just because it says it on the box doesn't make it so. After all, UT2003 never said you could play it on Linux on the box.

Re:Piracy concerns

[Mike Hawk]

Product = Something that was produced.

Synonyms include work, yield, device, fabrication, and creation.

Re:Piracy concerns

[daveashcroft]

well....xbox dvd format cant be read by PC's...to access the files, you have to access the drive direct from the chipped xbox via ftp. Thus, having a copy means you have obtained it "illegally" . ie using a chipped box.

Re:Piracy concerns

[Mike Hawk]

If this means just sticking an XBox game in their PC and firing up a good game through an Emulator, I don't see anything at all wrong with this.

Sure enough. But does this emulator magically make your DVD-ROM or, even more likely, CD-ROM able to read a retail Xbox game disc? (I don't know, I can't RTFA because visiting such a site is discouraged here at work) Cause if not, it has no use other than to play ROMs and NOT retail games. And if you don't have an Xbox you don't have a legal way to make your own legal backups. It sounds highly like that if it doesn't allow even a normal DVD-ROM to read the disc, the law would legally differ in opinion.

But hey if it does work its a whole other ballgame.

Re:Piracy concerns

[GTRacer]

Thus, having a copy means you have obtained it "illegally" . ie using a chipped box.

Ummm, how does having a mod chip make playing an Xbox game illegal?

Oh wait, I just saw your last name...

GTRacer
- Would've modded but it was cooler to buy a .jp system!

Re:Piracy concerns

[WNight]

Is there any reason why you shouldn't play your XBox game on the PC? I mean, other than that Microsoft won't like it...

What makes this a 'rule'? If I sell you a toaster that I intend you to toast bread with, how does it hurt me that you toast bagels? And even if it does cost me a Bagel-Toaster sale, why is that your fault? When exactly does my silly restriction become a 'rule'? Maybe it's when I put a piece of paper inside the box and tell you it's a contract?

The stupid rationalization is all on the side of the companies wanting to control the consumers. How is buying an XBox game different than buying a toaster? How does it matter if I put it in a DVD-ROM drive on the computer, or on the XBox, or in the microwave? It's still a sale to them.

People like you really piss me off.

Re:Piracy concerns

[poot_rootbeer]

"Microsoft takes a loss on each Xbox sold."

This may have been true two years ago when the console first hit the market, but do you think it's still true? Heck, I bought a new PC in December, and the same model's sale price today is already down to 75% of what I paid just three months ago.

Re:Piracy concerns

[the_consumer]

In that case, they are doomed to collapse under the weight of their own hubris, emulators or not. It's not like Sony and Nintendo are just sitting on their hands.

Re:Piracy concerns

[daveashcroft]

hehehe.......and its my real name too! hehehehe. Dont worry, im your friendly scottish ashcroft. Anyway - in the uk...there is no "fair use"...thus if you are using anything other than the original media, its a copyright infringement

Re:Piracy concerns

[WNight]

God you're an idiot. Sorry for the flame, but your post just screams it. You just don't see the problem with the way the world would be if we all played along like the sheep you think we should be.

Just because a way of reading a disk may violate a law that your country may have does not mean that a whole activity is illegal.

As far as the law in my jurisdiction is concerned, that disk is just a collection of copyrighted ones and zeros. I can do anything to it that doesn't involve another copy, except in such a way as is required to use the product.

Note though that the game company doesn't get to dictate the use, the courts do. Microsoft may say that the intended use it for an XBox only but the courts have struck down similar product-tying restrictions for a long time. Ford isn't allowed to require you to use Ford tires, or tie your warranty to your using Ford tires. And while Ford could encrypt the radio's output signal so only Ford radios worked with the stock speakers, they couldn't stop anyone else from reverse engineering the encryption, and producing a radio that would work with Ford's 'protected' speakers.

I'm sure this pissed off Microsoft, and Ford, but really, why should we care? We pay them a fair price (they set it, we choose to agree) to purchase a product. Why should they get control over future use of that product just because it comes on a CD instead of being a tangible product like a chair? Why is there this assumption that a piece of paper in the box that you don't get to see until a legal sale is finalized is some kind of binding contract?

Fuck man, open your eyes!

Re:Piracy concerns

[divisionbyzero]

You forgot one thing, they want to dominate the gaming market only to the extent they make money. Emulators will allow them to do this. The XBox has always been a Trojan horse.

Re:Piracy concerns

[roelbj]

Um, hello. "Sega Channel" anyone?

Re:Piracy concerns

[MikeXpop]

Supposedly it is still true. Also consider that it now sells for half the price it did when it first hit the market.

Re:Piracy concerns

[77Punker]

Don't forget that buying the XBox actually helps them recover some of the loss they took by building the console.

Re:Piracy concerns

[Jim Hall]

You're forgetting one important thing M$ would lose on: revenue from games because they can now be pirated and played... without a modchipped console. People can just copy them from a friend and play them on a computer that contains no piracy check.

There's another thing, too. Microsoft depends on the XBox sales numbers to be somewhat reliable, so they can use those numbers to convince software developers to commit to creating new games for the XBox. It's a tricky thing. If you have people who aren't buying XBoxes, Microsoft's sales numbers are off.

This came out fairly early on when it was found that Microsoft was double-counting sales of XBoxes if you had to return your (then, overheated) XBox for a new one. Instead of counting one sale, they'd count two (one purchased, plus one given to you in exchange.)

Re:Piracy concerns

[Darren Winsper]

You're just as guilty of what you're accusing him of. You seemed to be advocating that everybody adhere to "the rules" yet you flamed him for pointing out that the rules aren't the same everywhere.

Besides, FWIW, I don't agree with the UK's copyright laws and have often told both my MP and my MEP so.

Re:Piracy concerns

[Pluvius]

You're forgetting one important thing M$ would lose on: revenue from games because they can now be pirated and played... without a modchipped console.

You don't need a modchip to play XBox backups anyway. With the AUF/MechAssault/Splinter-Cell exploit combined with the Phoenix BIOS Loader, it's almost as easy to pirate XBox games as it is to pirate Dreamcast games.

However, I agree that this emulator would make it even easier; just download the game and play.

Rob

Re:Piracy concerns

[daveashcroft]

No, i have been very clear that what i have said relates ONLY to my country and legal jurisdiction....his comments were generalised and not clear. Thats what i took exception to. Also, my response was not a flame, it was a response.

And finally, good for you for telling your MP your feelings....i also wish they were different - but alas as long as the law stands...THAT is the rule, and we are morally obliged to adhere.

Re:Piracy concerns

[katarac]

Actually, Microsoft has put their full support behind this community based XBOX enthusiast group. In a recent press release they said that they encourage the XBOX community to do whatever it takes to make the XBOX a longstanding modders playground.

And if you beleive that, you'll also believe that there are a bunch of little Richard Simmons' running around! HA HA HA!

(lame reference to an Arnold comment on the Conan the Barbarian DVD commentary. which rocks btw.)

Re:Piracy concerns

[Pluvius]

as long as the law stands...THAT is the rule, and we are morally obliged to adhere.

And Thoreau rolls in his grave.

Rob

Re:Piracy concerns

[Derekloffin]

>Anyway - in the uk...there is no "fair use"
Not true. Even UK has a fair use policy. It may not be called that, or be the exactly the same, but it's there. It's kind of a necessity to have such things as News, critics, research, etc.

Re:Piracy concerns

[daveashcroft]

Law is law.....if you dont agree with it then you campaign for a change (as the previous poster has indicated he has)...but as long as the long stands, if you want to be a part of society, then you have to adhere to it.

I know it sucks, there are many laws i dont like or disagree completely with...but we cant pick and choose rules. If you want to be a part of a cohesive and succesful society, then you have to adhere to the rules.

Re:Piracy concerns

[daveashcroft]

Yes, you are actually correct. There are very strict regulations which say how much of a copyrighted work that can be copied...usually for academic purposes etc. However, its still completely illegal (under scottish and english legal systems) to VHS a programme from TV or Radio. I know it sounds crazy - but its honestly true.

Re:Piracy concerns

[Darren Winsper]

Good point. After all, the Poll Tax was abolished after people obeyed the law, paid their taxes fully and on time, but whilst peacefully protesting via mumbling into their pint. Oh, wait...

Re:Piracy concerns

[Darren Winsper]

It's completely illegal to install software too (The UK court has ruled the act of installing or running software involves making a copy, which is illegal), but you do it anyway.

Re:Piracy concerns

[Derekloffin]

Okay, just a little thing: Rule/Laws != Morals. They sometimes coincide, but one does not determine the other. There have been a lot of reprehensible laws made throughout man kind's history. Moral obligations come from what is right and wrong. Legal obligations come from the law. It's up to the individual to judge whether a law equates with what they fell is right and act appropriately.

Re:Piracy concerns

[ajs318]

THAT is the rule, and we are morally obliged to adhere.

That wasn't the way Americans were thinking in 1776. Have you forgotten already?

Re:Piracy concerns

[ajs318]

OK, forget that ..... parent looks not to be American after all. Sorry. And I wasted a good line too.

Re:Piracy concerns

[poot_rootbeer]

Which leads more credence to my theory that they can't possibly still be losing money on it.

For MS to still be losing money on each Xbox today, it has to cost them $150 or more to manufacture and sell. By misapplying Moore's Law very badly, one might estimate that a computer that costs $150 to build today would have cost around $500 to build in 2002.

It seems unlikely that Microsoft would have subsidized a full 40% of the cost of each unit at the Xbox's product launch.

Re:Piracy concerns

[acxr is wasted]

In that case, they are doomed to collapse under the weight of their own hubris, emulators or not. It's not like Sony and Nintendo are just sitting on their hands.

Posted by "the consumer." Heh.

Re:Piracy concerns

[SETIGuy]

Thus spoke Dave Ashcroft: but alas as long as the law stands...THAT is the rule, and we are morally obliged to adhere.

Is this a troll? Is Ashcroft really your last name or part of the bait?

I thought even preschoolers knew their moral obligation is to oppose unjust laws and to break them when necessary.

Re:Piracy concerns

[daveashcroft]

Sorry, but i really am a bona fide Dave Ashcroft. To be honest the surname means nothing to most non-americans!

www.daveashcroft.com to see my uglyness in full

Re:Piracy concerns

[Funk_dat69]

MS can only benefit from this.

Say what??

Yeah, so instead of MS losing $50 from you buying their console, they can lose $250 cuz you didn't buy it.

How is that a benefit?

Re:Piracy concerns

[daveashcroft]

hehehehehe...*I* liked it though :D

Re:Piracy concerns

[daveashcroft]

I understand your point fully. My point is that when we start picking and choosing which laws we comply with......we are on the steady slope to anarchy.

What if a paedophile decided that he didnt believe in the illegality of having sex with kids? Does that mean its his duty to screw them all as his protest? I think not.

We all have to deal with laws we dont like, laws we hate......but for our society to have integrity, we HAVE to adhere to laws that are crappy...so that the body of law/justice in total can be enforceable.

This is HONESTLY not a flame people. This is a cool discussion, lets keep it that way! (not specifically intended on the poster who i am replying to now)

Re:Piracy concerns

[k8er]

I'm a pc-only gamer. My favorite game (regardless of platform) is NCAA Football. Someone wrote and article before the X-Box hit the market explaining how it would be the end of college sports games on the pc. I do not recall the exact logic behind this, but the writer was correct (apparently). This has forced me to play hundreds of seasons of the 1999 version of the game, because I refuse to buy a console. I have my reasons. But if this emulator will allow me to play the 2004 version of the game, then they may make a sale, possibly several. They will make more money. But then they will probably use the profits from that to prosecute me for using an emulator.

Re:Piracy concerns

[Derekloffin]

>What if a paedophile decided that he didnt believe in the illegality of having sex with kids? Does that mean its his duty to screw them all as his protest? I think not.

He could certainly try, and we could certainly toss him in jail and throw away the key. That doesn't change the point.

>We all have to deal with laws we dont like, laws we hate......but for our society to have integrity, we HAVE to adhere to laws that are crappy...so that the body of law/justice in total can be enforceable.

No we don't. We don't HAVE to do anything. You run the risk of being punished, but you are not actually forced to do it/not do it. Our society has integrity because people as a whole believe in the laws that are made and believe they are just, not the other way around. Just because a law is passed is not a good excuse to blindly obey it. As well, simply because people decide not to obey a law forbidding J-walking does not automatically mean they'll stand idly by and let a murderer run rampant.

Re:Piracy concerns

[daveashcroft]

You are right. I agree. We dont HAVE to follow the rules, but we just shouldnt whine if we are cought out and are made to pay the price.

I guess thats what i have been meaning......its not doing something wrong and getting away with it thats the problem. Its when people DONT follow the rules and then cry like a baby because they are held accountable.

Re:Piracy concerns

[Derekloffin]

Well, they're allowed to whine. We're equally allowed to say they are whiny little babies that are upset they got caught doing wrong, or conversely that they have a point and that the law is unjust.

Re:Piracy concerns

[Pluvius]

Whining about getting caught breaking a law is not the same as complaining about the law being unjust. One is fine, the other is immature and almost chickenhawkish.

Rob

Re:Piracy concerns

[MikeXpop]

No it doesn't. It helps Best Buy (or wherever) recover (and then some) the less they took by buying the console.

Re:Piracy concerns

[Derekloffin]

Yes, but there are a lot of immature and chickenhawkish people in the world. Still, that in itself doesn't mean they are wrong or right.

Re:Piracy concerns

[daveashcroft]

Ladies and gentlemen...i think we are perhaps the first group of people to be having an interesting and civil discussion on slashdot.

(passes round a collective slap on the back)

Re:Piracy concerns

[daveashcroft]

The german law never stated that jews should be killed.......that was a fact that was kept from the majority of german civilians, and for which i have had personal discussions with many germans from that generation.

However, my argument DOES fall at the point where those who lived AROUND the camps knew what was going on. Still, this was never a law. It was a military order given by a madman.

Am i wrong? If anyone knows of a specific civilian law which ordered the genocide of the jews...please correct me!

Re:Piracy concerns

[mattACK]

Bravo. And I saw it here today.

Also, slavery was legal and constitutional at our nation's inception. It was not, however, moral. So people who knew it illegal and helped slaves escape were criminals and heros.

Re:Piracy concerns

[Guspaz]

Your logic doesn't make any sense.

If you don't buy a console, Microsoft doesn't lost 250$... They lose 0$.

People have been saying that Microsoft will lose money because they will have a surplus of xboxes. That logic doesn't make any sense at all. Say that sales of the Xbox drop. Microsoft will have a surplus of xboxs, and will cut production. What do you suppose will happen then?

By your logic every unsold xbox will be a 250$ loss to Microsoft. What, do you think that when Microsoft doesn't sell an Xbox they throw them out? More like they get sold eventually anyhow.

Every xbox produced will be sold eventually. If a thousand xboxs are not sold today, 1000 less will be produced in the future. It all balances out, and Microsoft saves money in the long run.

The only place Microsoft may lose money is from a higher rate of piracy of the games (Which is where they make the real money). Who knows, though, maybe increased sales from PC owners buying Xbox games will counter that.

Re:Piracy concerns

[WNight]

What's the difference between an order from the leader of the country and a civilian law? Seems to me you're nitpicking to allow certain really bad laws to be broken and not others.

You either have the moral ability, and right, to judge that some laws are bad and should be broken, or *all* laws, rules, edicts, etc, from your lawful superiors are sacrosanct.

I feel that people do have the right to judge. Some laws are big and obvious like orders to commit genocide, and some are minor, like laws saying you can't unweld the hood of your car. Saying that people don't get to judge can't work in an imperfect world.

Re:Piracy concerns

[daveashcroft]

There is a big difference between civilian law and military law. Just ask those guys in Guantanemo bay.

Re:Piracy concerns

[TrancePhreak]

If I'm not mistaken, when Bleem! went to court they were forced to add security checks into their PSX emulator so that it would only play real PSX game discs. They went belly up soon after that.

Re:Piracy concerns

[aminorex]

I'm not so sure they will all be sold. Palm dumped truckloads of Palm 3s in a secured landfill, just to prevent them from getting into the marketplace and undermining the price point of their newer products.

Re:Piracy concerns

[WNight]

Convenient distinction, for one such as yourself who says law is sacrosanct ... some law. The law you support of course.

Re:Piracy concerns

[DeathBunny]

Actually, I already own an Xbox. But I would like to play some of my Xbox games on my laptop when I travel. When this emulator becomes more stable I will *definately* be installing it.

Re:Piracy concerns

[Moofie]

You're absolutely wrong. They don't care about making money from games. They care about controlling the next-generation home information architecture.

Re:Piracy concerns

[Samedi1971]

It doesn't work that way. Nobody has found a way to read an Xbox DVD from a PC. You still need a modded Xbox just to rip an original DVD to a backup.

So you can't just buy the games and play them on the emulator.

Re:Piracy concerns

[divisionbyzero]

Absolutely wrong? That's pretty harsh and unsubstantiated. Every business in as much as it is a real business exists to make money, and those that don't don't exist long. However, we are basically arguing the same point; the Xbox is Microsoft's way of extending its domination from the desktop to the living room. That's what I meant by calling it a trojan horse. In a sense they have to pursue that strategy as consoles take on more PC-like functions, otherwise their potential market shrinks as PCs are marginalized by consoles. Where we differ is that I don't think they would needlessly throw away money to dominate the home information architecture and to that extent they won't care about emulation because it allows them to make money on games without taking a loss on hardware. They are pursuing this strategy themselves for the next generation console anyhow: http://www.microsoft.com/xna/.

Re:Piracy concerns

[Jace of Fuse!]

Sure enough. But does this emulator magically make your DVD-ROM or, even more likely, CD-ROM able to read a retail Xbox game disc?

It would require your DVD-ROM to read the disk. The CD-ROM would not be capable.

There would be no magic involved in reading the disc with any high quality DVD-ROM, it would just require reading the drive RAW.

There was information floating around about how the XBox games wrote data from the "OUTSIDE IN" to gain a speed advantage. This isn't exactly the way it worked afterall, and though there have been arguments back and forth as to wether or not a high quality PC DVD-ROM drive could actually read an XBox game, the argument seems to have settled more towards the idea that the disc can in fact be read.

I don't claim to know the answer for sure, but the fact that this emulator does work is encouraging.

And surely...

[Tuxedo Jack]

MS is going to pull the DMCA on this as soon as we get done with their server.

Talk about misery loving company.

Re:And surely...

[frenetic3]

it is open source and on sf... so even if it's dmca'd to oblivion, maybe they'll take development out of the country ;)

although dmca did effectively kill the warforge bnetd project, so who knows.

-fren

Re:And surely...

[Kenja]

"MS is going to pull the DMCA on this as soon as we get done with their server."

404

Seems we're done.

Re:And surely...

[drinkypoo]

Why would they do that? They make more money when you buy games for your PC without buying an Xbox than if you do buy an Xbox, because they lose money on each Xbox sold. Also, you can use Xbox controllers on the PC, and they are higher quality than the knockoffs; Peripheral sales probably pay M$ just as much as selling games, and now they can sell them for PC users. It's a winning situation for them.

Re:And surely...

[Jerf]

On what grounds will Microsoft pull out the DMCA? It may be a law with several evil clauses (and a couple of good ones, like the safe harbor provisions), but it's not an all-purpose beating stick.

I don't see how this can be construed as a mechanism to defeat copyright protection, and emulators are well established as legal; it's just the legality of actually having any ROM data to run the emulators on is occasionally questioned. (For the record, I think if you own a license to a copyrighted work you should have full rights to put it in whatever media format you like, as long as it is undistributed, but to be fair, the legal precendents are mixed at best.)

Re:And surely...

[M.C. Hampster]

On what grounds will Microsoft pull out the DMCA?

On the grounds that the original poster wanted some karma.

Re:And surely...

[Hythlodaeus]

Emulating the Xbox consists of basically nothing other than defeating DRM. The machine itself is already just a standard, albeit crippled, PC.

Re:And surely...

[Derekloffin]

>Emulating the Xbox consists of basically nothing other than defeating DRM. The machine itself is already just a standard, albeit crippled, PC.

I would certainly hope they did not get that broad with the interpretation. You could reasonably then charge any vendor that did not implement your protection, no matters how faulty or pathetic, with a violation. I'm sure many a Linux user/contributor would be very happy to find out that they have to implement inherently faulty security protection schemes in the OS simply because it could be seen as a method of getting around the protection.

Re:And surely...

[Anonymous Coward]

If it does not enforce or comply with the scurity model of a (C) DRMed piece of media then OF COURSE it "circumvents" it. It could not be more simple. This device circumvents the X Box software DRM model and therefore is clearly illegal. There is no gray area here.

Re:And surely...

[Deraj DeZine]

the DMCA...it's not an all-purpose beating stick.

Have fun eating your words when they release a Rodney King-style home video of the developers getting beaten by MS's hired goons.

Re:And surely...

[merlin_jim]

On what grounds will Microsoft pull out the DMCA? It may be a law with several evil clauses (and a couple of good ones, like the safe harbor provisions), but it's not an all-purpose beating stick.

They've already been using the DMCA to kill modchip imports and websites... if the emulator lets one run pirated games the same as a modchip does, then I don't see why they wouldn't try to use it.

If the emulator developer is smart he'll make sure he's copy-protection compliant with the emulator; that is, he checks for a valid disc using the same mechanism as in the XBox...

Re:And surely...

[katarac]

They really shouldn't bother. Turok: Evolution blows.

Microsoft's gonna be mad!

[Throtex]

Now you can play XBox games on a Windows machine! Think of all the lost revenue!

Re:Microsoft's gonna be mad!

[lwd0000]

Well, they lose all the revenue from the sale of X-Boxes...

Unless of course they're taking a loss on those, in which case this is actually good for Microsoft. Uh.

Re:Microsoft's gonna be mad!

[ydnar]

Actually, Microsoft will make more money off each purchase of an Xbox game played on a PC, Windows or otherwise, as the per-game royalty/license fee won't have to cover the loss on the console.

Re:Microsoft's gonna be mad!

[Quobobo]

Of course, you're assuming that people will actually buy the games to play on the emulators...

Re:Microsoft's gonna be mad!

[WormholeFiend]

If Microsoft actually released an approved Xbox emulator, it could have a win-win situation...

Sure, there would be some piracy, but I think there's still a big market for Xbox games and PC users who dont want consoles.

Re:Microsoft's gonna be mad!

[mr.capaneus]

Um. Why not just release PC games?

Re:Microsoft's gonna be mad!

[WormholeFiend]

Because with Xbox games, the same game can be sold to two different kind of people:
The PC owner, and
The Console owner.

Whereas at the moment, no PC owner will buy an Xbox game if he doesnt also own a console.

One development cost for two different platforms = huge savings.

Re:Microsoft's gonna be mad!

[ydnar]

Xbox is a closed platform, and every Xbox is the same as every other Xbox. PC development is a rats nest of compatibility, bugs, drivers, lowest-common-denominator hardware.

Until recently, console games were virtually* bug free compared to PC games, due to rigorous QA that's only possible when you have a single hardware platform.

y

* Notable exceptions include patching recent console games for online exploits, and hardware-related snafus with USB steering wheels on Gran Turismo 3, etc. Whether the former counts as a bug is debatable.

Re:Microsoft's gonna be mad!

[stickb0y]

If Microsoft actually released an approved Xbox emulator, it could have a win-win situation...

If Microsoft released an approved X-Box emulator, they'd have to support it. Support costs aren't cheap.

Supporting games on a closed, fixed hardware platform is much easier and cheaper than supporting games on top of an emulator on top of an open, highly-variable hardware platform.

Re:Microsoft's gonna be mad!

[mr.capaneus]

That is true but Microsoft already pretty much owns the desktop market. Making an Xbox emulator (aside from the difficulty of integrating DRM) makes the Xbox redundant. If they wanted people to play games on their PC's they'd just release games on the PC (i.e. Halo and KOTOR). I guess in a way it might make some sense but don't hold your breath.

Re:Microsoft's gonna be mad!

[WormholeFiend]

I hate to point out the obvious, but given the price difference between a current desktop PC and an Xbox, I'd say they cater to a different market.

People who can afford a PC, can probably afford an Xbox, but there are people who can only afford an Xbox.

Also, if you are going to let your kids play videogames, would you prefer to let them get frustrated in front of your expensive PC or let them take it out on a cheap Xbox?

I'm part of the market where I would get the emulator so I can rent the odd Xbox title, or borrow my brother's games (he owns an Xbox, but not a computer).

The console videogame rental market is also poised to profit from PC emulators.

Re:Microsoft's gonna be mad!

[merdark]

One development cost for two different platforms = huge savings.

So I guess you missed the news on XNA?

http://www.arstechnica.com/news/posts/1080238536 .h tml

Maybe Later

[stecoop]

I can buy a Xbox for a 150 bukcs. Ill look at it when it becomes V1.0 Stable but for now Ill play the games faster than an emulator and save myself 151 dollars in time.

Re:Maybe Later

[lazuli42]

Well, I've got my Xbox running Linux right now. The emulator will let me play my Xbox games on my PC while I'm coding stuff on my Xbox.

Hmm... something seems weird about that. Oh well!

Re:Maybe Later

[DrEldarion]

Actually, if you can make your way to an FYE/Coconuts, you can get it for $119 after a $30 rebate.

Re:Maybe Later

[gosand]

Well, I've got my Xbox running Linux right now. The emulator will let me play my Xbox games on my PC while I'm coding stuff on my Xbox.

You really need to see if your XBox emulator, running on a Linux machine, will run Linux.

Then you could run the Xbox emulator on that....

Re:Maybe Later

[Drooling Iguana]

... using Wine.

Re:Maybe Later

[JFMulder]

Once I installed Virtual PC for Windows and then I installed Windows inside the Virtual PC. Afterwards, I tried installing Virtual PC inside the Virtual PC environment. Everything went fine, but when I ran Virtual PC inside Virtual PC, it said : "Virtual PC will not run inside another instance of Virtual PC. You just had to try it, didn't you?"

On the other hand you can run Bochs inside Bochs inside Bochs inside Bochs inside Bochs and so on and so on, since it's 100% emulation.

It would be cool if it did

[daveodukeo]

Run on the xbox itself.... it could serve as a nice piece of game backup software - you could back up your games and play with the back up copy using the emulator on your box!

Re:It would be cool if it did

[drinkypoo]

Surely I must be missing something here. Most games will already run from a backup on your Xbox, and the Xbox has to be hacked to run any unsigned code, which would include the emulator.

The closest useful thing I can think of to what you describe is the GB/GBC emulators for GBA, which give you functionality not found in the GBA's backwards compatibility, like state saving, cheats, screen shots, et cetera.

Re:It would be cool if it did

[daveodukeo]

It may be true that you can already play backed-up games on an xbox (i don't know and am too lazy to check). Certainly, the xbox would also have to be hacked to run the emulator. After doing all of that, though, we would end up with greater control over the xbox itself. FreeCraft for the Xbox? Maybe we could play it online through a possible open Xbox Live-style server.

Re:It would be cool if it did

[drinkypoo]

You already have complete freedom on your Xbox when running Linux, at which point the Xbox is just a legacy-free PC with very limited I/O, which is to say four USB with funky connectors and 10/100 ethernet, besides a/v out.

You can certainly back up games directly to your Xbox and play them there. So that's nothing new.

What would be exciting to me would be Windows 98 running on the Xbox with a working Nvidia driver. That way I could play stuff like sid meier's alpha centauri on the Xbox in my bedroom instead of having to sit out here in the living room :)

Re:Piracy concerns and other lawsuits....

[txviking]

Unfortunately, I can't imaging M$ will not go after this in any legal and not so legal they can... I applaud the creativity and innovative force of the guys writing this stuff. And I hope they will survive teh forces of their feudal principality M$....

MEANWHILE, AT MICROSOFT...

[mcc]

Underling: Sir, there's a situation. I have good news and bad news.

Bill Gates: Alright, let me hear it.

Underling: The bad news is, someone has created an XBox emulator capable of playing a commercial game, and the public has become aware of it.

Bill Gates: Oh no! That's horrible! This could undermine H&E's entire business model! What's the good news?

Underling: The game is Turok Evolution.

Bill Gates: *Whew*

Re:MEANWHILE, AT MICROSOFT...

[Beowulf_Boy]

Underling : and I just saved tons of money on my car insurance!

Good work but not quite Mame

[ifreakshow]

This is really great work but there's much more to be done before this is an All Purpose Xbox emulator. Currently, It only plays Turok. Which is based on the 4627 XDK. Other games based on this are:

Aggressive Inline
Battle Engine Aquila
EggMania
Kelly SLater's Pro Surfer
Rayman Arena
Sega GT 2002
Shadow of memories

Re:Good work but not quite Mame

[frenetic3]

additional notable points are that it is also missing sound and network support.

also, maybe it will be slightly since xbox is based on x86 architecture and nvidia graphics, but it took a while for ultrahle, for example, to be truly playable (the o/c'ed celeron 450s didn't exactly cut it back then -- or it would play fine 90% of the time but glitch annoyingly the other 10%.. or buttons would have no text, etc.). so the requisite hardware might be a year or two off before it's truly playable (not to mention the incredible amount of effort to fully reverse engineer the xbox architecture enough to emulate it in software such that it plays indistinguishably from a real xbox)

-fren

Re:Good work but not quite Mame

[74nova]

well, the first line of that post is very noteworthy, but im not sure any of the rest was really intelligable. im not even sure what you were talking about. the xbox is x86 just like windows (and most linux) boxen. im not sure what reverse engineering that really takes. obviously its not trivial as is evident by the lack of hundreds of projects like this and the missing sound and network as you mention. i dont think its years of hardware advancements away, however. i dont forsee a great bit of emulation needing to happen to run x86 software on x86 hardware.

Re:Good work but not quite Mame

[UnrefinedLayman]

... and Lee Carvallo's Putting Challenge

I'll wait for Bonestorm. Buy me Bonestorm or go to Hell!

Re:Good work but not quite Mame

[ifreakshow]

One of the interesting tricks the programmer makes is allowing much of the code to execute with-out emulation. It just tells the program that it is running on a certain type of os by wrapping a xbox/nt wrapper around threads that run on normal xp/nt os. This eliminates much of the emulation overhead.

The author claims to be able to run the game w/ 4x overclocking on a 2.8ghz pentium. Seems like todays hardware can handle it.

Re:Good work but not quite Mame

[frenetic3]

sorry about that.

what i meant by my post was:

first, any of today's off the shelf PCs will likely be too slow to handle xbox games -- largely because all of the little places where the xbox software or hardware differs from stock x86 PCs need to be emulated, which adds significant overhead. for example, the NT kernel has been chopped down on the xbox and a complicated bunch of workarounds and wrappers needs to be devised, and the directx for xbox is optimized solely for the specialized GPU, so again, more wrappers and hacks.

second, the emulator code itself will need a great deal of time to mature since duplicating the exact xbox environment is very difficult (for the same reasons). another example: the compiler for xbox actually optimizes away (read: removes) certain code that would be required for a PC target. (read the papers describing how cxbx works, and the 'progress' section.)

moral of the story: it's not JUST moving x86 software to x86 hardware; the devil is in the details (of the xbox's customized environment.)

-fren

Halo

[tx_mgm]

So...when they get Halo to run on this thing, which one will run better: the PC version or the emulated X-Box version? I only say this because the current PC release runs like it's emulated already.

Re:Halo

[Alranor]

Well, I read the article (I know, i'm a little odd like that sometimes :) ) and saw a line which said:

I am sure by now most of you have heard of the new xbox emulator just released, named "Xeon". From the screenshots I have seen, it is very impressive. Halo is apparently playable, although I have not been able to verify this myself.

Look, I even did the Google for you.

Re:Halo

[LqqkOut]

I don't care, so long as I can play Co-op

Who needs xbox live subscriptions now, sucka!

Re:Halo

[gl4ss]

actually I'm waiting for it..

because the fuckers left coop out of the pc version.

Great!

[GMFTatsujin]

Does it emulate the Goldeneye memory card hack? I really want to install Linux on it...

Re:Great!

[hambonewilkins]

Does it emulate the Goldeneye memory card hack?

Woah, the Xbox emulates the N64? Hot damn!

And somehow this emulation of one of the N64's best games (goldeneye) allows you to install Linux? I am so confused!

Re:Great!

[hambonewilkins]

I guess egg on my face! I didn't realize that Goldeneye was made for the Xbox. In fact, I only thought two james bond games existed for XBox: James Bond 007: Nightfire and James Bond 007: Agent Under Fire.

But I guess the 1997 Nintendo 64 game was ported?

Re:Great!

[Crimson Midget]

Don't let the uninformed confuse you, the game is Agent Under Fire. There is no Xbox Goldeneye.

Slashdot effect...

[NemosomeN]

Someone REALLY needs to tell this guy to take down the AVI, or at least snippet it and lower the bitrate... It's gonna cost more arms and legs than his staff has.

Mirrors please

[BigChigger]

If anyone can set up mirrors, please do.

BC

Re:Mirrors please

[LqqkOut]

Here's a .torrent

Are there any recommended tracker sites for files such as this? (non-copyright, one-off dl's)

Re:Mirrors please

[markclong]

It's going slow but it is still going...
http://slushdot.org/mirror/cxbx/

Patents are bad for Emulation!

[Elektroschock]

Don't forget that parts of the XBOx are protected by trivial patents of Microsoft.

See:

Microsoft and Patents
http://swpat.ffii.org/players/microsoft/i ndex.en.h tml

Bruxelles event
http://dot.kde.org/1081152462/

Web strike and demo
http://demo.ffii.org

Modchips

[trs998]

Do I now have to plug in a modchip emulator?

Unlikely

[TrollBridge]

"Expect many additional titles to become playable upon the release of the next binary in the near future."

What I expect is the Microsoft legal team serving them with papers before the next binary release.

That's GREAT for Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft lose money on the XBOX hardware, so if they can get the license fees from XBOX games without selling the XBOX hardware, they're making more profit.

Re:That's GREAT for Microsoft

[trs998]

whoo, so me turning my XBox (with no games, cept the free Halo) into a webserver hurts microsoft. Cool. Certainly good for me - low-performance webserver for 160+soldering, with reasonable graphics and sound. Was thinking of using it as a DivX player, but needed a webserver...

The Cycle is complete! MWAHAHAHA!

[Anonymous Coward]

Now that I have finished turning my Xbox into a PC I can turn my PC into a Xbox! Hooray!

In fact...

[paranode]

Well, they lose all the revenue from the sale of X-Boxes... Unless of course they're taking a loss on those, in which case this is actually good for Microsoft. Uh.

Actually they are taking a loss on the Xboxes. It is the packaged games that they are counting on to make their money back. This emulation technology, if abused, could (and probably will) encourage people to trade/download/serve illegal copies of the games so they don't have to pay for anything.

The author makes it quite clear that this is not his intention, and while that may or may not be a genuine sentiment, I think MS will probably come down on him with the DMCA somehow.

Lemme get this straight.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll need a $2000 computer to play a game that almost looks as good as the one played on the $150 console?

I think I'll stick with the real thing.

Re:Lemme get this straight.

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I'll need a $2000 computer

Why that price? I think the emulator assumes you already own a powerful enough computer. The combined street value of used parts that will work should be less than that of an XBox.

A system with a PIII chip, motherboard, 10 GB drive, ethernet card, GeForce 4 card has to be about $100 or so.

Re:Lemme get this straight.

[mbourgon]

But you already have a computer...

Re:Lemme get this straight.

[Geoffreyerffoeg]

I have a computer now. I don't have an XBox.

And since you posted to Slashdot, I'm assuming you have a computer too.

Granted, it would be interesting to use CXBX on Linux on a real XBox...

Re:Lemme get this straight.

[Hogwash McFly]

Do you actually know what emulation is?

Just because the Xbox contains the specs (kinda) you listed above, you can't do a straight conversion onto emulation performance. When you emulate something, there is an overhead - likely to be small in the case of an Xbox due to the similar architecture but still... - so you always need more power than the original system you are trying to emulate. The Playstation has a 32 bit processor runnning at 33.87mhz and 2MB onboard RAM. Let's see you emulate the Playstation on a machine that's equivalent to that, hell I'd be impressed if you could do it on a rig with 5 times those specs.

To properly emulate the Xbox you're gonna need at least $500 worth of kit and I think even that figure is being generous.

Re:Lemme get this straight.

[Hogwash McFly]

You're right, I suppose it is really simple when the instruction set is identical. I guess it's only taken a paltry 3 years for someone to be able to play Turok Evolution without sound on a PC that has twice the specs of the Xbox. Oh look, I can be a sarcastic cunt too.

Re:Lemme get this straight.

[sonamchauhan]

> A system with a PIII chip, motherboard, 10 GB drive, ethernet card,
> GeForce 4 card has to be about $100 or so.

The XBox is not as simple as a basic PIII box. It also uses hypertransport links. Hypertransport is just showing up now in modern desktop systems like the Opteron and Apple G5.

Google Cache

[OctaneZ]

No, it's not up to date but it's better than nothing.

Er.

[pokeyburro]

I'm not sure I want to play on something whose name looks like "cocks box".

So close...

[paranode]

...but I'm afraid you meant Agent Under Fire. ;)

I just don't get it...

[pmancini]

an Xbox is, what, $150??? How much is your time worth? I mean really, working on this kind of project seems to me to be a serious misallocation of resources.

Unless...

-- You can make the games play better
-- Do things you can't normally do with an XBox that are interesting and fun
-- Improve the development of XBox titles
-- Port other cool games to XBox more easily

Re:I just don't get it...

[74nova]

or i can get the games for free on a p2p and my current pc will play them. that means im not out the $150 (honestly, if i werent married and both of us in kolledge, id have one already). im sure other games will be MUCH easier to port now that one is done

Re:I just don't get it...

[CdBee]

The whole point of OSS development is that it has no need to be led by Market economics.

I'm not a developer, but I respect their ability and it must be a tremendous goodwill moment when the executable you hand-crafted runs properly for the first time.

Would you deny the authors that satisfaction just because their choices are economically unsound?

Also - why shouldn't someone who already owns the expensive PC want to try an XboX game without spending the price of a console?

Re:I just don't get it...

[freeweed]

I mean really, working on this kind of project seems to me to be a serious misallocation of resources.

From: Central Bureaucracy
To: Unit #926568257191
Re: X-Box Emulator

Thank you for bringing to our attention this serious misallocation of resources. These units will be re-programmed to begin production on work more suited to fulfilling this year's 5-year plan. Unit #000000000001 is pleased to know all comrades are looking out for the good of the Party.

Sincerely,

Central Bureaucracy

Re:I just don't get it...

[phrenq]

-- You can make the games play better
-- Do things you can't normally do with an XBox that are interesting and fun
-- Improve the development of XBox titles
-- Port other cool games to XBox more easily

Or, you could just admit the real reason people use emulators:

-- You can play pirated games on a computer you already own for nothing.

Re:I just don't get it...

[jfisherwa]

FREE? WHERE?

Re:someone tell R "xbox emu impossible" belmont

[reptilezero]

2006! Whoo-hoo!

Re:Piracy concerns and other lawsuits....

[August_zero]

Really though if you think about it, they are doing microsoft a favor. MS loses a lot of money on every x-box sale. If people can buy the games without having to buy the system MS still makes money from the game sales and doesn't have to offset the $100 or so they lose per unit.

Of course a lot of people that use this, will be using it in order to also copy and download x-box titles without paying for them. It's that group of idiots that give the entire emulation scene a really bad name.

Why didn't Microsoft do this themselves

[Anonymous Coward]

Why didn't microsoft do this themselves, they keep saying that the money comes from games, not hardware, where they lose money on each unit sold. Also, we know that the hardware inside the Xbox is essentially a PC, dumbed down. If they sell a cheap emulator, they can reap money from games sold, plus they could have the copy-protection built in. This project can circumvent that. MS really dropped the ball here.

Re:Why didn't Microsoft do this themselves

[WormholeFiend]

Who knows, maybe Microsoft is secretly working on the "Windows XB" operating system.

Re:Why didn't Microsoft do this themselves

[evil-osm]

Simple. Look at the pain and the agony that PC game programmers have to go through with respect to compaints about fps, bugs, crashes, incompatible hardware. Blech! This is why there are so many console systems in the first place. A contained environment is simple to program for. Just look at the Mac. Not to mention the royalties from the games, which is also a huge cash cow (brands, dev seats, licenses, logos, sometimes production, etc..).

MS went the simple route, got some cheap ass, pretty basic more or less off the shelf parts and put together a system that would run WinCE (I know other platforms are supported).

Why go the route of headaches? They already have a ton of games on the PC space, but nothing in the console space, where royalties abound and games are made in a week by the dozen.

That being said I hate console games and I will always be a PC gamer, but hey thats me and thats another argument for later.

Re:*Nix port?

[Eshock]

I have xbox-native emulators for nes, snes, genesis, game gear, tg16, and a whole shitload of other consoles I forgot. If you don't like any of the xbox-native stuff, you can install linux on it as well. A whole lot cheaper than a pc, and you don't need the xbox emulator, since you can run xbox games natively.

Not a huge impact

[lake2112]

I just don't see this as having as much of an impact that UltraHLE had. The average person does not know where to download Xbox ROMS, let alone have the patience to wait for the 3+ gigs to download.

XBOX Live?

[4/3PI*R^3]

If I mod my xbox emulator to run Linux and then connect my xbox emulator to XBOX Live will Microsoft intall an updatethat disables my xbox emulator?

A $10,000+ game console

[tepples]

If Microsoft stops selling games that can be played without Xbox Live, then many families with children would stop buying the new consoles. Most families with children aren't willing to spend five figures just to move to a geographic area where residential broadband Internet access is affordable.

Re:CXBX Is Good for MS

[ChiperSoft]

That's the theory, but that didn't keep Sony from killing Virtual Game Station. Sony stood to only make money on that emulator as well, but they did it because of pride. Microsoft might want to kill this thing just because they can.

Re:CXBX Is Good for MS

[binaryDigit]

The Xbox is a loss-leader, which means each one sold costs them money. They make it up on the games. This means that every game sold to play on CXBX makes them more money than if you bought it to play on an Xbox.

So you're claiming that someone who is avoiding paying $149 for the console is suddenly going to pony up $49 a game to play on this emulator? I think not. The FIRST thing someone is going to do after downloading the emulator is to download some games.

X-box accessories for PC

[phorm]

I've seen adaptors to allow Playstation pads to work on a PC, and I believe X-box as well. Nice if you like the feel of the real pad...

Re:X-box accessories for PC

[jmccarthy]

The Xbox controller is essentially a USB device with a fruity plug. All it takes to get it running on PC is either cutting the end off and splicing on a male USB end or buying a 5-6 dollar adaptor that hooks into where the break is in the controller cord, plus appropriate drivers.

No, not really. PCs cannot read Xbox Discs

[BenJeremy]

Xbox incorporates a non-standard DVD format that requires the DVD-ROM drive, at the firmware level, to handle reading the Xbox portion.

PCs only see an 11MB video that basically says "look, dumbass, this is an Xbox game so go stick it in your Xbox". (Maybe not in quite that harsh of language - I'm paraphrasing here)

You can't hook an Xbox Drive up to a PC, either... because the system won't recognize it as a valid DVD-ROM drive. Again, this is an issue with firmware (oddly enough, some standard DVD-ROM drives can be used on modded Xboxes to read backup discs).

This is why you have to use a modded Xbox to back up an Xbox game - the game material has to be read from the Xbox itself, then transferred to a PC.

This was intentional. It was meant to stymie hackers from simply reading the disc in a PC, or slapping an Xbox DVD-ROM drive into a PC and using that to read from.

The Xbox can handle games loaded from a DVD-R in UDF format, or even it's special Xbox DVD FAT format (burned as a "normal" disc image) - once it's modded. Why? Because it makes things easier for development. Developmnet Xboxes can be thought of as "half-modded" - developers can sign aps with a developer's key FOR THEIR XDK CONSOLES ONLY. Thus, they can test their releases with burned media (saving the expense of mastering a secure DVD and generating a signature).

So legitimate games cannot be used on a PC. Microsoft has locked themselves out of that market (albeit in the interest of copy protecting their software).

Re:No, not really. PCs cannot read Xbox Discs

[Mr. McGibby]

If it's just a firmware issue, then why hasn't anyone tried to modify the firmware. Just curious. Is the firmware not flashable?

Re:No, not really. PCs cannot read Xbox Discs

[BenJeremy]

Actually, there is a firmware that can be flashed into a Samsung PC DVD-ROM drive to make it compatible with the Xbox - but that's merely a hack to make a drive with the same control board look and act like an Xbox drive.

Nobody has done a detailed disassembly and analysis of the DVD-ROM firmwares available - such a thing is not a simple task. Most firmware hacks are merely patches over data constants or simple patches to code, not real rewrites of code. Nothing is usuall reassembled or recompiled in hacked firmwares.

It is also likely that Microsoft specified DVD-ROM makers (Philips, Thomson and Samsung) to employ some form of encryption on the firmware as well, to elude hacker attempts to decipher the structure of Xbox DVDs.

Consider that there are only a handful of programmers who write embedded code for DVD controllers, and that most of them probably STILL haven't seen an Xbox, and it's like asking a class of 3rd graders to decipher the Dead Sea Scrolls. It's not impossible, per se, just close enough to it to render the goal impractical to attain.

Bunnie's book might go into better detail about this.

It was a good question though... I asked about the firmware when I first got into modding. It's been almost two years now for me, much of it spent creating an Xbox dashboard called "Media X Menu" (MXM) and the first game (homebrew) to run on CXBX - X-Marbles.

Re:No, not really. PCs cannot read Xbox Discs

[CreateWindowEx]

The Xbox can handle games loaded from a DVD-R in UDF format, or even it's special Xbox DVD FAT format (burned as a "normal" disc image) - once it's modded. Why? Because it makes things easier for development. Developmnet Xboxes can be thought of as "half-modded" - developers can sign aps with a developer's key FOR THEIR XDK CONSOLES ONLY. Thus, they can test their releases with burned media (saving the expense of mastering a secure DVD and generating a signature).

Perhaps more accurately, the XDK devkits could "sometimes" boot burned disks (they had to be CD-RW's for some reason), if the blank was perfect, if the phase of the moon was correct, the correct chicken was sacrificed. Sometimes we had to flip the consoles on their backs to get them to boot. To be fair, Microsoft is not the only villain in this regards, as the $10,000 (originally $20K) PS2 devkits still use a $3 1st-gen PS2 DVD drive that tends to be pretty touchy, not to mention the incredibly loud high-pitched whine those things make. Luckily most of console development can be done using data loaded over the network from a PC, so error-prone burns can be postponed until the of the big milestone, and then it gets really exciting. I think GameCube gets the prize for "least coasters"...

Wrong crowd .....

[binaryDigit]

Famous quote (which of course doesn't apply as much as it used to) :

"Linux is only free if you don't value your time"

Try UMLWin32 instead

[tepples]

No, that's the Agent Under Fire memory hack.

If you want to install Linux as a process within Windows, try User Mode Linux for Cygwin.

Just a few thoughts

[bogie]

Yes but Piracy is also what got Microsoft where it is today. How many pirated copies of Win95/98/2000, Office 95/97/2000 are out there? Casual piracy is a huge part of the way Microsoft got to its monopoly position.

For the near term more people playing Xbox games will only lead to greater mindshare for Microsoft. Xbox 2 comes out and you have a whole other market of "Xbox gamers" who never bought the first gen console but are now hooked on Xbox games and might consider buying Xbox2 even thought they never owned Xbox 1.

Regarding it hurting sales, people who have an Xbox will most likely continue to buy retail games. They play on Xbox and Not a PC for a reason. Those that don't own an Xbox but download this emu to play Xbox games were never going to buy an Xbox or Xbox games in the first place. So how does MS lose revenue on games people had no interest of every buying?

I think the publicity will only help Microsoft and get more people using Microsoft products. Remember the way Microsoft does business on the PC side. In order to gain in their goal of World Domination, Microsoft would rather give their products away for Free then lose a customer. Even if that means "losing" money. *Tinfoil hat on* I wouldn't be surprised in 10 years if we found out that someone internal at MS "helped" this guy out in order to get more people using Microsoft products.

Re:Just a few thoughts

[daveashcroft]

Yes, piracy did help microsoft achieve market dominance in the areas of operating systems and in office productivity software. The major difference here, is that when people get used to using the aforementioned software, employers are urged to use such software - in order for employee familiarity and to reduce training costs. There is NO benefit to a company for having people pirate games software, as very few employers are going to feel the need buy it for the workplace.

Re:Just a few thoughts

[daveashcroft]

(sorry should have previewed) ...Microsofts revenue is majorly dependant on corporate licensing. As such, only "corporate" products being pirated can indirectly help them (as much as they would deny that.....they are effectively ignoring the china problem right now)

Re:Just a few thoughts

[Ernest P Worrell]

Casual piracy is a huge part of the way Microsoft got to its monopoly position.
That's a pretty stupid statement. Even for Slashdot. Look, just because you and your friends pirated software doesn't mean everyone else did. I guess developing products demanded by the market accessable to the casual user had nothing to do with it.

In order to gain in their goal of World Domination, Microsoft would rather give their products away for Free then lose a customer.
World Domination? Hmm .. never read that in their mission statement. How many copies of WindowsXP did they give you for free? Only freebies I've gotten were at product launches. And that's called Marketing to get you to convince your boss/client to buy the products.

Re:Just a few thoughts

[Seraphim_72]

I have said it before - I will say it again. My greatest hope is that Bill G. has his wish come true. Total DRM/uncopyable media. You are 100% right, MS got where they are today by folk being able to pirate thier stuff. They are the new latin. I do truely hope MS products become uncopyable, for that shall sound thier death knell. I have to admit - I was gifted an xbox, and I give the games in general a big shrug. I was even given a copy of Halo...very dark, random and for God's sake give me back my trackball! Off track sorry, but this can only increase thier mindshare, and that is never a bad thing - this is why MS is a monopoly

Sera

M$?

[Dimensio]

Sony bought Connectix, after losing every lawsuit that they could throw at the company.

Mirror of the AVI

[MBAFK]

Turok.zip

du -h Turok.zip
8.8M Turok.zip

Re:CXBX Is Good for MS

[UWC]

Except the emulator is just 125 KB, a pretty much instantaneous download. XBox games come on DVDs, which means they can take up several GB, a rather unwieldly size to download to say the least. Add long download times, limited hard drive space, and low DVD-R drive ownership rates (for now, at least), and it seems at least reasonable that one wouldn't mind paying a little extra to just have the game on a disc.

Re:wake me when....

[Jaysyn]

3 words

Rip Van Winkel

Jaysyn

Doesn't anyone remember Bleem?

[Audigy]

Bleem was a legal, commercially-available Playstation emulator. It required the original media, so piracy wasn't really an issue. If this XBox emulator were marketed and licensed properly, I don't see why it wouldn't succeed. Then again, many XBox game releases have PC counterparts... might as well get the PC version and have it look prettier. :)

Re:Doesn't anyone remember Bleem?

[SScorpio]

Actually Bleem didn't require original disks. The author wanted to require them; however, doing so would have need some type of patent violation and have give Sony more to sue them over than not checking if the disk was an original.

Re:Doesn't anyone remember Bleem?

[Newtonian_p]

Its Connectix Virtual Game Station that worked only with original disks (unless cracked).

I wonder then how they avoid the patent issue.

Re:Doesn't anyone remember Bleem?

[SScorpio]

Maybe the Mac version, I tried backups on the PC version and they worked just fine. Sony did buy out the emulator though, so maybe that had something to do with it.

Turok: Evolution?

[nanodik]

The real question is who the hell wants to play TE on ANY platform?

PPC

[DannyiMac]

I'd like to see them emulate the next XBox when they use PPC!!!

(yeah, i know they eventually will).

Re:PPC

[rayzat]

How about using a Mac G5, or any Mac for that matter, as long as it uses the PPC ISA. The next Playstation is being done with PPC as well, so maybe you could emulate it on that.

Why do this? Cant be cheaper

[dcgaber]

I am wondering why anyone would want to do this aside from the pure hacking coolness that this is.

I thought the X-boxes were sold at a loss, and that is in relation to the fact that MS already gets the hardware cheaper than we can due to their immense purchasing power. Can you really build a comparable box for $150 or even close to that? Seems to me that is better to take an x-box and mod it to a fully functioning computer (like linux) rather than take a fully functioning computer and mod it to an x-box at more $$.

In fact, I was even thinking of picking up an x-box, not to play games, but to use as a frontend for a mythbox as there is no way I could build one for anywhere close to $150, particulary with that form factor. I don't even play games, as my ability to do so ended after pitfall for atari 2600.

Re:Why do this? Cant be cheaper

[gl4ss]

you're thinking wrong in that there would bee needed some other reason than pure hacking coolness..

Re:Why do this? Cant be cheaper

[billsif]

Oh gee youre right.. wait.. what if you already have a PC and don't have the money for a $150 xbox, but you DO have the money to download the games for free.

I wonder.

[13Echo]

I wonder how long it will be before you can emulate the emulator that is emulating the XBox, via WINE.

It would be quite funny to see the XBox games running on a Linux box, faster even than with Windows. ;)

Re:I wonder.

[Kazoo the Clown]

I wonder how long it will be before you can emulate the emulator that is emulating the XBox, via WINE.

It would be quite funny to see the XBox games running on a Linux box, faster even than with Windows.

Yeah, that would mean you can run Linux on your XBox and run the emulator under Wine on that and have it run faster than the vanilla XBox---- :-)

Hopefully not a hoax

[NinjaPablo]

I hope the editors did a bit of research on this one before having a repeat of a couple years ago

Taking bets...

[superultra]

What a conundrum: getting excited over Turok! Anyway, would anyone care to bet how long until we see a "We received a notice from Microsoft's lawyers today" followed very quickly with a "This Project Discontinued" page on Caustik's site?

Killer App? Halo 2!

[drfishy]

This will be HUGE if they can get it to run Halo 2... I'm almost willing to buy an Xbox for Halo 2 after waiting so long for the first one to come out on the PC... Not to mention all the other stuff you can do with it... If this can run it, all the geeks that dislike Microsoft but love Halo will be all over it.

Xeon

[emkman]

The other xbox emulator in the works, Xeon, can already play Halo to a large degree. Check it out

XBox Architecture?

[Inhibit]

You mean reverse engineer Pentium 4 and GeForce support... wait a minute.. that doesn't sound right :).

It's actually running (as you stated) X86 architecture hardware, so reverse engineering a compatability layer for the hardware is, erm, not really an issue. Unless you're using a Power5 chip, I suppose.

Re:Goodbye Microsoft

[aderusha]

extrordinarily unlikely in this case. most of the cxbx code consists of wrappers for the existing directx calls used by xbox games. the xbox really is essentially a pc, with a few different system calls for hardware access (specifically in the shared video/system memory access). the directx and cpu calls can execute directly under windows without emulation, which is the only reason that this thing can run at playable speeds.

in order to make this run under *nix, you need directx9 running under *nix, which as i understand is still a long way from happening.

SCO

[thpdg]

Won't this just give SCO and Microsoft more ammo in their battle against Linux?

ehm break wich rules?

[SmallFurryCreature]

Emulation is not illegal. Well not in free countries anyway. As long as the emulator is written "clean", meaning without use of copyrighted information or by breaking someone else code, then it is perfectly acceptable. Look at nintendo and the GBA emulators. They would love to break that down but can't. The emulators are perfectly legal.

So there are no rules being broken. As long as you buy the game legally you can run it however you see fit. If you want to put a PS1 cd into your audio player and listen to the static that is 100% okay.

So go troll somewhere else.

Re:ehm break wich rules?

[daveashcroft]

No...you are wrong.

In the UK, its illegal to make a copy of a copyrighted material...even if only for your personal use. If you want a CD for your home and your car, you have to buy two copies. That is the law. And the UK is *relatively* free?

Re:ehm break wich rules?

[Jagen]

Thats completely wrong and you know it, there is a specific exemption that allows backups of software to be made.

Re:ehm break wich rules?

[Yakko]

It may be illegal by the letter of the law, but the citizens are most likely just ignoring it (just like folks here in the USA ignore the DMCA). All they know is that they bought the damned thing, and they're going to use it within their personal space however they want.

Just TRY and stop them, or even have half a chance of enforcing such draconian legislation.

Re:CXBX Is Good for MS

[Firehawke]

Well, most of the people who'd use this kind of preliminary emulator would have at least a partial clue about computers in general and thus about some of the more specialized tools out there. I'd expect them to just devote some giggage to disc images and use Daemon Tools with it; go down, rent a game, image it, and emulate the disc with DT. Simple as they get.

Is it an XBox...

[greenegg77]

Webserver? Looks like he needs a small cluster right now.

So what...

[LilMikey]

my PC's been able to run MythTV twice as well as my XBox for a year.

Re:I CAN FINALLY PLAY HALO ON MY PC!

[crhylove]

You obviously never played the PC version of Halo. It is chock full of errors and problems.

*sigh*

Re:CXBX Is Good for MS

[Firehawke]

Alright, so the disc format is propreitary. Still, it's not too tough to get images of the discs, with Suprnova and the like. You'll just need to dedicate a good week to the downloading.

Re:Well

[G0dzzilla]

Midtown Madness 3 (not realeased on PC)

One of their own?

[emkman]

Not sure if they would sue the author. He is after all, a former MS employee. From his resume:
Microsoft Corporation - Software Design Engineer (Redmond, WA 08/01-11/01)

Developed components for next generation Microsoft Project product. Primarily C# (.NET) design and implementation involving client-server communication and graphical representation of centralized server database.

He also works at DivX and VIA currently, it would seem. I think atleast for now, he is safe from lawsuits. Once the program plays every XBox title straight from your DVD rom, might be a different story ;)

You don't know your prices then

[Blaede]

A collection of parts that will emulate an X-Box for less than the price of the X-Box. I call bullshit here. Show me your breakdown.

Didja read the article?

[vasqzr]

This ins't a SNES emulator on a 486/33.

These screenshots are taken on my GeForce FX 5600 (2.8 ghz P4). Turok is completely playable and suffers from only mild glitches like missing polygons and water effects. The gameplay is very smooth, frames per second are real-time. It is even possible to overclock Cxbx and play at 4x+ speed without choking the system.

Re:I CAN FINALLY PLAY HALO ON MY PC!

[Pluvius]

I had a problem or two while playing Halo PC, but that was caused by another program I was running at the time. Besides that, the game ran quite smoothly. Therefore, I have to agree with parent.

Rob

*sigh*

[bonch]

Only on Slashdot is someone "doing a favor" for a company by emulating their console so that nobody buys it.

Somehow, your logic is:
Game sales > Game sales + X-Box sales

Completely insane and depressing.

MS loses a lot of money on every x-box sale.

So by not buying X-Boxes, they're magically recouping the money for those X-Boxes sitting at the store?

Re:*sigh*

[bobthemonkey13]

Only on Slashdot can people not understand negative numbers.

Game sales > Game sales + X-Box sales

Please try to understand what it means to lose money. a > a + b when b is NEGATIVE. And as for X-Boxes sitting at the store, every one of those that isn't bought is one more that doesn't have to be manufactured at a loss. Just because there's a buffer doesn't mean that the sale rate and supply rate aren't related.

Completely insane and depressing.

Re:*sigh*

[Pluvius]

a > a + b when b is NEGATIVE.

And since it's manifestly impossible for XBox sales to be negative, the statement doesn't make any sense.

Rob (Hint: XBox sales != XBox profits)

Re:*sigh*

[Derekloffin]

>And since it's manifestly impossible for XBox sales to be negative, the statement doesn't make any sense.

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Xbox Sales include the cost of manufacturer, distribution, etc, etc. Fact is, without selling a single Xbox, MS is better off since they sell at a loss.

However, what people forget is that with emulation inevidably comes increased piracy, and with increased piracy comes a decrease in game sales.

Re:*sigh*

[Pluvius]

Fact is, without selling a single Xbox, MS is better off since they sell at a loss.

No, they're not. They lose more money without selling an XBox that has already been produced.

Producing, distributing, etc. an XBox and not selling it = -$175 (hypothetical number)
Producing, distributing, etc. an XBox and selling it for $150 = -$25

-$25 > -$175

And don't say that they should just produce XBoxes only when they're being sold, as that would be highly impractical.

Rob

Re:*sigh*

[Derekloffin]

>No, they're not. They lose more money without selling an XBox that has already been produced.

Yes, but they save that money on the Xbox they don't produce. You can't escape this. If Xbox production were to suddenly stop, right now, then you'd be right, but it isn't. All this would do is slow it down, and thus cut MS's cost, and thus raise overall revenue (if game sales didn't decrease).

Re:*sigh*

[Pluvius]

Yes, but they save that money on the Xbox they don't produce.

This doesn't make any sense. What XBox wouldn't they produce?

If you're trying to say that MS would slow down production as a result of this emulator, I should point out that it takes a while for this to happen. By the time production is cut, they would likely have a higher surplus of unsold XBoxes than they would've if the emulator didn't exist. Emulation certainly doesn't do console makers any favors, even if they're losing money on the consoles.

Rob

Re:*sigh*

[Derekloffin]

Unless you erroneously think that sales will suddenly drop to zero (in which case why are GBAs still selling so bloody fast), the speed at which they cut production really doesn't matter. There is still a throughput, and the cost at the start is now less making overall profit increase.

Re:*sigh*

[Pluvius]

Now that I've rethought it, I see your point. However, this isn't necessarily a good thing for MS. We have two possibilities at the end of the XBox's lifespan:

1. MS produces fewer XBoxes than it would've if the emulator didn't exist, and has the same number or fewer of unsold XBoxes (i.e. MS is able to anticipate the lowered XBox sales in time). This would be a good thing.

2. MS produces fewer XBoxes than it would've if the emulator didn't exist, but the number of unsold XBoxes is higher than it would've been (i.e. MS is unable to anticipate the lowered XBox sales in time). This would make it a zero-sum effect, or possibly even a greater loss.

Which of the two things will occur? It's hard to say. The XBox is roughly in the middle of its effective lifespan, so the emulator won't do as much damage as it would've done late in the XBox's life, but at the same time it won't have an obviously beneficial effect as it would've earlier on. Basically, the emulator is a wrench in the system; its unpredictability causes MS more problems even if it saves money on XBox production.

Rob

Re:*sigh*

[Derekloffin]

I really don't think either senerio matter. An emulator inevidably leads to wider piracy and that will hurt 100X more than any lost X-box sales every would.

Re:*sigh*

[Pluvius]

Well, yeah. But other people seem to be completely ignoring the piracy issue and think that emulation is always better for console makers than no emulation. I'm just pointing out that even without piracy, that's not necessarily the case.

Rob

Re:*sigh*

[dissy]

> And as for X-Boxes sitting at the store, every one of those that isn't bought is
> one more that doesn't have to be manufactured at a loss.

So what is the problem?

Emulators are no worse than the PS2 and GC and other consoles that one may feel is better and decide to buy over an xbox.

If you think an emulator is bad, go try to shut down some of MS's other competition for them while your at it.

FSAA, Anisotropic filtering?

[UnrefinedLayman]

After reading the site a bit and reading about how he mapped a lot of Direct3D calls to the Xbox operating system to Direct3D calls for the Windows operating system, I'm wondering if it's possible to get FSAA and/or Anisotropic filtering going on. Not to inflame anyone, but Xbox graphics downright suck. A little AA would do it some good.

Uh

[bonch]

Every company sells something in an attempt to succeed and control that market. Welcome to what we call "capitalism."

freecache link

[donutz]

Here's a freecache.org link to Turok.zip

XNA

[PhoenixOne]

I kind of got the idea that playing the same games on the XBox2 and PC was the idea behind XNA. Either that, or then had to find *something* to talk about at this year's GDC. ;)

No it's not great....

[Hogwash McFly]

People that aren't willing to spend $150 to buy the official console that runs the games properly are, in 90 percent of cases, not going to be willing to shell out $50 for the official game disks and then go home and play them with buggy graphics and/or sound. Especially when they could buy the PC equivalent for a lot of the Xbox games for less and get a proper running game with full multiplayer support etc.

'Pirating the hardware' goes hand in hand with pirating the software. An Xbox emulator won't be causing an explosion in game sales any time soon.

Most likely, this will push virtually all of the borderline Xbox purchasers (who will be buying 10+ games over the ownership duration) to say 'Fuck it, i'll download the emulator onto my PC and get the DVD-Rs cheap off my mate Bob who's into all that piracy stuff'

Awesome

[aztektum]

Next they'll announce Halo for Xbox running through an emulator. And it'll run better than native Halo PC.

Ah progress.

Microsoft would probably win a lawsuit here.

[Pluvius]

There are three ways to put retail XBox games on your PC:

1. Connect a modded XBox to your PC.
2. Hack your DVD-ROM so it can read XBox discs.
3. Download the games.

Note that one of these three options makes the emulator mostly pointless, and both of the first two require technical skill and might void your warranty on your XBox or DVD-ROM. That leaves a large chunk of the emulator's audience with Option #3, which is more-or-less illegal.

Microsoft would have a similar case as to what the RIAA had with Napster. Combining that with the fact that Microsoft could probably win a court case against God and it doesn't look too good for the Cxbx developers.

Rpb

This is *not* good for Microsoft

[Beanalby]

People keep saying, "this is good for Microsoft because they lose money on hardware and make money on software, so pure software is good for them!"

In the pre-XBox days, Microsoft had a software games divison. They were already producing software. By that logic, they'd have no reason to make a console, because people always lose money on console hardware. Why didn't htey just stick with games for PCs?

They did it for "living room presence." Right now, or at least moreso 3 years ago, people thought of computers as a workstation. Microsoft's wants to push computers to all areas of the home, and the XBox in the living room is their foot in the door. By establishing a foothold in the console division, they'll be able to have future hardware generations integrate better with with normal PCs to give "ubiquituous computing" or some such.

Microsoft *could* make an XBox emulator on the PC, but they just don't want to.

Latest version

[Aphelion]

The latest version is not linked on the downloads page.

Xbox Live

[Anonymous Coward]

as seen in the DreamX, attempting to connect to xbox-live with an xbox that has a different processor will get you banned.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/friendtech_d re amx_xbox/

right. but not $2150

[74nova]

you dont buy a computer to emulate xbox games. if you have a computer already, you will be able to do that, however.

mod parent up

[anethema]

People don't maybe mod this because its talking about piracy or something, but this really contributes to the discussion.

This really IS the reason people will use this. Since you can install Linux on the Xbox, you can do most anything on it (although playing network games without Xbox live would be nice)...improve the development of Xbox titles? Yeah right..

Possibly let you port games to Xbox titles, but who's going to do that.

The REAL reason for people to use emulators is they can just download whatever games they want and play it on a computer they have already paid for.

Hell, with a serious Xbox game collection, the computer could pay for itself! :)

Uh, Guys

[xlurk]

Microsoft is already working on a way to port xbox games to the PC. It's called XNA and was shown at this years Game Developers Conference.

Read here for more info: http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/03/24/news_60921 25.html

Uh-uh

[pokeyburro]

Capitalism isn't about trying to control a market. It's about selling something so good that people will buy it.

Trying to control a market stems from the idea that one should play the capitalism game just long enough to get to the point where one doesn't have to play by capitalism's rules anymore. It's not supposed to work that way. Your reward is not getting to lock out competitors, fix prices, and coast; your reward is enough money to keep playing. You can opt to keep selling your stuff as is, if it sells well, or make it better or different, if it's not; but you don't keep working, you can't expect to keep eating your cake.

Next time, think a little bit

[bonch]

Again...only on Slashdot is it better to not sell anything then to put money into selling something and getting back some profit. Apparently losing money is better than making money. I forgot, we're "doing MS a favor." Even though they don't need any.

What we really want to know is .....

[ajs318]

Can you run the X-box port of MAME on it?

Can it run Linux?

[EDA Wizard]

I can't wait to try this out. If I could run Linux on this emulator it would give me a way to put Linux on my x86 box.. Oh wait... That's right...

You're forgetting a more important thing

[cgenman]

Platform lock-in.

If someone were to be able to play XBox games without owning an XBox, they are statistically less likely to actually buy said games. Because they haven't invested any money into the platform, they don't have that sense of loyalty / hazing that comes with a system purchase.

(warning, old numbers ahead) The average system sells with 5 games the first year, and 5 the second... After which it slopes off. What is likely to happen if people don't make an investment in hardware? Chances are, more people will use the opportunity to buy that one "must have" game (in my case, Ninja Gaiden), but will not pick up the other 4 per year. The "system seller" is a well-known effect, but what happens if people can satisfy that system seller desire without the system? Or what happens when people can emulate all 3 platforms consistently?

You want your players to make an investment in your hardware. It makes them better customers, more likely to come back and buy more games.

It doesn't work on my game :(

[AndrewHowe]

As an Xbox developer, I thought this was interesting. I pointed it at my .xbe... And it did nothing. I'm a little drunk right now, so I'm not up for debugging it. It just pauses straight away. :(

Re:It doesn't work on my game :(

[AndrewHowe]

OK fucked as I am, I found the source (not on the main page) and it doesn't compile.

c:\Documents and Settings\Andrew\Desktop\Cxbx-0.7.8c-Source\Cxbx-0. 7.8c-Source\Cxbx\Source\Win32\CxbxKrnl\KernelThunk .cpp(42) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'xboxkrnl/xboxkrnl.h': No such file or directory
HLEDataBase.cpp
c:\Documents and Settings\Andrew\Desktop\Cxbx-0.7.8c-Source\Cxbx-0. 7.8c-Source\Cxbx\Source\Win32\CxbxKrnl\XOnline.1.0 .4361.inl(299) : error C2248: 'XTL::EmuThis::Emubind' : cannot access private member declared in class 'XTL::EmuThis'
c:\Documents and Settings\Andrew\Desktop\Cxbx-0.7.8c-Source\Cxbx-0. 7.8c-Source\Cxbx\Include\Win32\CxbxKrnl\EmuXOnline .h(65) : see declaration of 'XTL::EmuThis::Emubind'
c:\Documents and Settings\Andrew\Desktop\Cxbx-0.7.8c-Source\Cxbx-0. 7.8c-Source\Cxbx\Include\Win32\CxbxKrnl\EmuXOnline .h(56) : see declaration of 'XTL::EmuThis'
c:\Do ... etc

??? Help!

Re:It doesn't work on my game :(

[AndrewHowe]

Weird, that shit is in one of the other directories. I tried to compile the other shit (OpenXDK) and that doesn't work either. Does anyone have a .dsw/p etc that works?

Re:It doesn't work on my game :(

[AndrewHowe]

Well, OK, look at this line:

unsigned int offs = (unsigned int) &( (struct usb_interface*)0)->dev);

From usb.c ...
The parentheses just don't match. My compiler (VS 2003) realises straight away. Nothing I can do about that... Bad code! Come on! I want to compile this pile of shit! Sort it out!

Re:It doesn't work on my game :(

[AndrewHowe]

I tell you what is dead weird, no matter what I do I can't see my own posts no matter how much I refresh... Some kind soul gave me +1 Interesting so I know it must be visible, but I'm fucked if I can see it... Bug in /.?

Re:It doesn't work on my game :(

[AndrewHowe]

Dude, I have loads of karma, but what I don't understand is why this thread doesn't show up for me??? That's fucked up!

Insta-Lawsuit

[AvengerXP]

"Expect many additional titles to become playable upon the release of the next binary in the near future."

No i wont expect anything, because it will probably get taken down by MS. Not this soon.

How to feel good about buying an Xbox

[vikool]

One Xbox costs Microsoft about four hundred dollars to build. This does not include marketing, development and other business costs. Currently, you can go to any store and buy an Xbox for about two hundred dollars. So, if you go buy an Xbox, its somewhat equivalent to stealing two hundred dollars from Microsoft.

Re:How to feel good about buying an Xbox

[Pluvius]

Then game developers notice how many XBoxes are being sold, which makes them want to produce more games for it. More games = more licensing fees for Microsoft. They'll make that $200 per unit you're "stealing" from them back easily, with change.

Way to stick it to The Man, indeed.

Rob

Re:How to feel good about buying an Xbox

[Squidgee]

And if you don't buy one, they don't recoup $200, so it's like stealing $400 from MS! And, there's the added bonus of game companies not seeing another sale on that ledger, so they're less likely to make games for the Xbox (which gives MS money thanks to liscensing fees)! Wow, not buying one is like stealing $400,/I. from MS!

God, did you do losts of or were you just born this stupid?

Re:Piracy concerns and other lawsuits....

[wolrahnaes]

Doesn't work that way. Unlike PS1 (and PS2 IIRC) discs, Xbox games cannot be read in a PC CD/DVD-ROM drive. MS modified the DVD format that the Xbox uses to prevent easy ripping of games. All you see with a PC DVD drive is a short animation telling you it is not a DVD, and should only be placed in a Xbox.

The only way to use Cxbx is with a disc image that has been ripped using a modded Xbox.

But does it run on Linux?

[Nermal6693]

Lots of people have asked whether you can run Linux on the emulator, but what about running the emulator on Linux? Has anyone ported it yet? I can't get too excited over an emulator that I can't run :(

omg kat trui

[billsif]

omg did anyone see kat-trui on the web site!! he was there for a minute i swear

Under Wine?

[polyp2000]

I've just been playing around with the binary on linux using transgaming wine. The application (Cxbx) seems to run fine. Only I've been unable to test it due to not being able to find any of these coveted ".xbe" files. Would be nice to see a native linux port with or without using winelib.

nick...

yeah right...

[cheekyboy]

People are now going to spend $500 upgrading to good enough hardware to emu a $150 box.

Why bother? just get an xbox and chip it.

If you have a good enough pc, then good for you.

Does the emu support xbox's controller (sinces its really usb)

It doesn't run on Linux

[cgenman]

Not to burst the bubble of what are apparently a lot of other people here, but CXBX only runs under Windows 2000/XP. It works by allowing native 2000 and XP system calls and functions though, while modifying those that would need to be modified to run under XP and 2000. While it may seem like an emulator, in practice it is really a code mutator. It turns an XBox Executable into a Windows Executable. In order to do this, of course, it must create sandboxes etc etc, but it relies upon running the code through windows, rather than through itself as if it were windows.

So no, there isn't and can't be a linux version. Sorry.

Re:Piracy concerns and other lawsuits....

[megan_of_wutai]

Just like with the Dreamcast, and we saw how very effective that was in preventing copying.

Xbox games don't read in PC drives

[deoch]

DVD drives will not read the Xbox ISO format, so there's currently no way this can support Xbox game sales. The only people who will be able to get legitimate games on their PC will be those who already have Xboxes (You can transfer from the Xbox DVD drive to your PC via FTP).

Appropriate drivers not necessary...

[Ayanami Rei]

Win2K and XP can pretty much handle any kind of USB-HID compliant joystick you throw at it (with click/pressure buttons, hats, and sticks). I would bet it'd work as you'd expect on first attach (but it may be "unidentified"). You might have to manually add a hardware ID for the unit in some far flung INF file.

Replace allowing native NT system calls...

[Ayanami Rei]

with thunking to libwine.so, and now you have your linux version. Better use the codeweavers version, because the DirectX support is better.

A friendly suggestion.

[Ayanami Rei]

In the future, don't reply to yourself.

It makes you look _crazy_.

Xbox in realtime?

[WeblionX]

playable at real-time speed with comparable graphics to the Xbox

Okay, so people can play Xbox games in realtime while all my N64 games still barely run at full speed? And there I was thinking that maybe buying a 64-bit processor might speed it up...

Re:Piracy concerns and other lawsuits....

[wolrahnaes]

The DC may have had the proprietary GD-ROM, but it still can run code unmodded off of a CD-R. See LinuxDC for /.'s favorite way of proving we control the hardware.

Uh, yes

[bonch]

Capitalism is about succeeding as much as you can. If your product becomes so great that it controls the market, that is a success. Remember that being a monopoly is not illegal. It is abuse of that monopoly.

Sorry, it's simple capitalism to want to be the most successful you can be--if you control the market, all the better.

Re:Uh, yes

[Moofie]

But I (me this one the consumer) don't want Microsoft to control the market, and I base my purchasing decisions on that motivation.

"Nearly the same" graphics hardware?

[Trejkaz]

And then the real article says it was a 2.8GHz P4 with a GeForce FX5600.

The Xbox is hardly a 2.8GHz P4, guys.

What's the name of that island without copyright

[Nakamiya]

Very sorry for being off topic, but awhile ago in some slashdot story, there was a link for deticated servers located on an island free from copyright law (I think, or maybe something like that). What was the name of that island or the link, because I can not remember or find it now, after searching slashdot and google. Thanks.