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Video Projector for Home Theater?
ZeLonewolf writes "I'm thinking about setting up a movie-style home theater system. I've already got the room set up and I've obtained a nice sound system. The last step is to acquire a video projector. I'm considering a few options: Projectors on eBay run from $300 to the tens of thousands. On the other hand, being an electrical engineer, there are plans online to build your own (Google cache), that are potentially as cheap as $200. What are Slashdotters' experiences? Will a $300 projector do the job? How about a home brew?"
Get thee over to http://www.avsforum.com and you'll find your answers.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Link to a Yahoo group, and their bandwidth is exceeded even before the story is posted. Niiiice...
The "homebrew" ones are a joke if you want something with a decent picture. And the contraption itself looks riduculous. Forget it.
There is a good deal on a refurbed DLP projector for about $3500 -- check gotapex.com (great site for deals). Read around for more info on what DLP is, but that and LCD are preferable to CRT projectors these days.
Anyway, you're more likely to get better information from someplace that deals directly with home theater equipment. The forum at Home Theater Spot has great information, despite their gestapo posting rules.
I did this same research and with projectors, you do get what you paid for. Rear projection will be brighter and more suiteable for home situations due to lighting. Just my 2c...
Not to be curmudgeonly, but why the hell even *bother* posting a link to geocities on slashdot? Hello? Anybody?
Plus I have a 5-star rating and ship super fast so go right ahead a click in that bid.
A projector for home theater is a no brainer IMHO. A relative of mine has an Infocus X1 projector with 100" screen.. Blows away any TV several times the price..
DIY though?? I don't see that happening for some reason?
Getting them from E-bay might not be a good idea, remember that the lightbulb has a limited number of hours before the light strenght is reduced and it finally breaks.
Anybody have an alternate site? I found this one on google.
Any generalization is a stupid one.
a $300 projector will more likely than not have poor quality and have faults within a year, there is a reason that good quality projecters are priced so highly. I have only expierenced bad quality when i have used cheap projectors on my projects, so i would recommend buying new from a top retailer such as Sony, and see how it suits you. And if you don't like it / it has faults you can return it with warranty
Business Voyeur
I was looking into projectors as well, but discovered a big drawback: the bulbs are good for about 2000 hours and then run about $350 (on average) for a new one. That's a lot of money every couple of years...
--- Usually, those that believe in absolutes are ignorant, fools, or both.
He has a projector that's actually near the bottom of the line (~$1500), and he's really happy with it. Projects a nice 100" image or so, and though it's not as good quality (I'm sure) as a $30,000 projector, it does save him $28,500...
I've seen it, BTW, and I think it's not worth it to spend more. But check it out for yourself at various AV stores.
My father in law works at Texas Instruments and got ahold of one of those DLP projectors. Holy moly, that thing looks GREAT. We watched Two Towers on it, and he had put up a simple white sheet on the wall to watch the movie on. It looked very nice, like a smaller movie projection. Colors are extremely bright; I'd been so used to projectors losing brightness proportional to their distance that the brightness of this thing took me by surprise.
Plus those DLP chips are just so freakin' cool.
Picked up an Epson S1 ($800-$999) after looking into making my own and adding up the hours it might take (way too much). So far I have been very pleased with it. I have it plugged into a old pc/tv tuner and it works great for daily usage and the bulbs are cheap ($150 Street). I was too lazy to make or purchase a screen so the wall with the white lead paint will do for now.... ;-)
Here is a link to a cached version of the Geocities page that has been slashdotted.
Opera Watch - An Opera browser blog.
Even slashdot won't look so dreary and washed out after spending some time in front of a makeshift projector-based home theater :p
I found this site to be very helpfull when picking out a projector.
http://www.projectorcentral.com
EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
I just recently set up my home theatre system with an InFocus X1 projector for about $1k and a $350 portable pull down screen. The color/sharpness is great day or night. I looked online and still wound up buying at Best Buy when it went on sale.
Why not go with the real thing? Super 8 all the way!
sulli
RTFJ.
Great stuff available here:
ProjectorCentral
I've thought about this, and I wouldn't build my own for the same reason I won't put a DVR computer near my TV -- the fan noise and the esthetics.
I have several customers who desire big display screens (like how they always do in movies and TV) so they can monitor the status of certain things.
Currently, we use a lot of old NEC 29" monitors which haven't been made in 10 years and are going away for good. I've talked about replacing them with rear-projection systems, by putting a cloth or plastic across the opening for the CRT and parking a projector behind it to display.
There's just one problem...virtually every projector under the sun measures bulb life in "hundreds of hours". At $300/ea this is not going to work as a monitoring display. Plus, we can't really turn them off because if someone needs to look at it, you apparently can't just turn them back on until the cooldown cycle has finished.
What's the solution here? Is there any way possible to use standard (read low cost) lighting in a projection system? I think these bulbs must be so costly and delicate because they have to fit in a tiny projection unit. If size/portability isn't an issue...what other options are there?
Could I get a couple of 150watt incandenscent bulbs, throw them through a polarizing filter and shine them through, say a gutted laptop display? I seem to remember that back in the beginning of time (the early 90s) the only way to do LCD projection was to lay some kind of LCD panel over an existing off-the-shelf overhead projector. Do they still make these things? Can they be modified to work with other light sources (given that overhead projector bulbs are no bargain either)
This also has to do with the home theater question, because if you watch a lot of movies or TV shows, you're going to find youself using a bulb or two each year and that's not cheap.
- JoeShmoe
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-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
I think if you know what you are looking for, Ebay can be a good source....but, remember that those bulbs can cost a few hundred to replace. Homebrew could give you decent results. I'm not sure if you set up a nice room you'd want a homebrew in the theatre room. Computer projectors are getting cheaper ($1500.00 range these days) and might be a good solution, especially if you are thinking about a HTPC. If you are even close to the $3,000.00 mark, I'd start looking into some plasma or LCD displays. With flat panel displays getting cheaper, the prospect of a projection screen becomes less and less desireable to me. To be honest, if I were looking at over $1,000, I'd rather get a HDTV. I think most a/v geeks would be disappointed with the homebrew approach to projectors. If you like DIY projects though, it could be fun.
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What's it gonna be $699 or $1399?!!!
"A man never stands to tall as when he stoops to trollbaiting..."
If you're going to be projecting you're going to lose a little clarity, so make sure you get an HDTV projector like a refurbed Piano HE-3100 HDTV projector for about a grand. Also, don't skimp on the screen you get, I recommend the Luxus Deluxe Screenwall - it has great reflective properties and microperf so you can put your center channel directly behind the center of the screen for the ultimate movie effect! Hope that helps.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur
"What are Slashdotters' experiences? ."
/.er or anybody else willing to share knowledge with just about anybody that can USE GOOGLE tries and sets up a nice site with the info on this some guy comes along and lets it get posted on the /. main page completely burning up the freakin data limit in 0.4 seconds.
Well, Everytime a
So frankly, we can't tell.
come on , links to geosuburb ?
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beer is nice.
-- forget
Here's a link to the google cache of the geocities site. You'd think an EE would have more sense than this.
Doesn't appear the site has anything useful anyway. I'd say go with a $500 - ~1k$ unit, if you can afford it. They seem to be of high enough quality for my liking, and should be able to get a good enough picture at a sufficient resolution for anyone but the most anal.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
wanted an ht in my basement, where i can control the ambient light well.
so I bought myself the sanyo plv-z1. vga/s-video/component inputs. decent brightness, contrast and resolution (yes, it supports hd). $1200 plus it came with a free 92" diag 16:9 screen.
put another $800 into some very decent mid-range speakers and a/v receiver. now I've got the coolest home theater setup that most of my friends and neighbors have ever seen.
everyone thinks i spent close to $10k, and their already dropped jaws hit the floor when i tell them it was 1/5th of that.
also, a great resource for projector info can be found at http://www.projectorcentral.com.
No, the $300 will not work. Sure, they'll be able to play TV on the wall fine, but they'll look like ass. For normal res TV, you need at least 800x600 to look good. If you plan on playing DVDs or HDTV stuff, though, you need at least 1024x768. For true HD, though, 1280 is needed. All of the projectors will scale down a higher res image to their native res, but you don't want that. Also, most higher res stuff like DVD and HD are widescreen, but most lower end projectors are 4:3. Using those for widescreen wastes resolution and, from some things I've read, isn't good for the projector.
You also need to worry about lumens depending on how dark your room is, lamp lifetime and cost, use for main TV or just a movie projector, fan noise, etc.
I would suggest a high lumen, 1024x768 projector with a widescreen native lens. If you need HD and are concerned about image quality, go for the 1280 res ones. The jump in price is enormous, but you don't have to worry about scaling, and less worry about widescreen native lens.
IANAL, but I play one on
Like a Epson Powerlite S1 or an Infocus X1. The picture will be infinitely better than what you'd get from a homebrew. Don't even consider the homebrew thing. Really. I've seen a few (based on CRT's or overhead projectors and LCD panels) and they are really poor.
Despite what videophile reviewers or salespeople will say, these entry-level projectors create a very impressive picture under any reasonable lighting conditions. And if you can't make your room reasonably dark (ie. reading should be uncomfortable) then you shouldn't be getting a projector.
I have an Epson Powerlite S1 ($900 US) in my basement theatre. Nobody that has seen it has been anything other than extremely impressed with the picture - even my brother who has a $12000 projector. Admittedly the picture isn't perfect in a videophile sense (and there's no optical zoom, so you'll want to measure things out) - but it is really very good (and as big as my wall would allow - about 11' diagonal). I'm projecting onto matte white paint. Again, it works just fine. I use my computer in there, play GameCube, watch movies - it's just really great.
Unless you're looking to spend a fair bit more than $900, you won't get something nearly as good as one of these two. You could try used, but I doubt you'll find as good a deal.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
In fact, you probably won't even like a commercial projector unless it's very dark in the room or the projector is very bright (read "very expensive").
Front projection has a big gotcha. Notice how white your screen is? That's as black as the projected image can ever be. Any stray light really messes up the contrast.
Rear projection can provide much better contrast, but the systems are much larger and heavier.
I just made me a crt projector costing about $60 and it's quite good for what I use it for. YMMV.
Pawn shop 13" tv, fresnel lens from barnes and noble, and cardboard black box.
I think a homebrew would do well in this situation. My personal favorites are stouts and Belgian dubbel ales, though you may find another style that -- oh, we're talking about projectors!
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
Infocus X1 is a really cheap and nice DLP Projector, can be had under $1000. easy to set up, easy to use. no fuss.
$1500 is about the entry price for DLP HD projectors (retail), iirc. a $300 projector.. is not going to look any better than a $300 tv.. and might look worse.
/before/ you buy it. any of the DLP projectors should yield very nice results.
I would suggest demo'ing whatever you go with,
You're likely going to see many opinions in this thread, but here are - from my perspective - the most salient points from my experience.
The first is the ongoing cost of maintenance. With any projection device, you'll need to occasionally replace the bulb - in many cases, this works out to a new bulb every 500-1000 hours. For my InFocus LP330, new bulbs cost me $150-200 each.
The second point is daytime viewing. Light output of projectors is measured in lumens, with the higher the number representing higher light output. For daytime viewing, anything under 1000 lumens is essentially useless in all but the darkest of rooms. A good, reflective screen will help a bit, but if you're planning to put the projector in a room that gets a lot of sunlight, you'll want to either invest in a brighter projector or some black-out drapes for the room. The latter option may be less expensive.
An Infocus LP 330 runs about $400, an LP335 about $500 and an LP350 about $700. If you time is worth anything at all, just get one of those. I personally use a LP350 and there is just no way I would attempt to build one of these myself (includes lots of fancy video processing chips, line doubler, etc). Just the high-pressure lamp to get 1000-2000 lumen output itself costs a couple hundred. While you're at it, if you see a spare bulb on ebay for the projector you get, it is well worth it to pick it up. The LP350 bulb is good for 2000 hours. The kids love the thing and it is something that I trust them to operate, unlike any probable homemade projector.
Hey, come here. If you want "homebrew", I'll sell you plans to make a 100 inch projector for $10 worth of parts.
Seriously, has anyone ever bought one of those "fresnel lens kits" off ebay? You can post anonymously to tell us about it.
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I picked up a overhead projector and one of those LCD screens, and I got watchable results for a meager $150. You can make it brighter by using a metal halide as a light source and a lens instead of the overhead projector, though that will run another $50-70. As good as homebrews are, they can never beat commercial ones in terms of color and quality. The best images I've heard of come from DLP's. The problem with any commercial projectors is that bulbs are really expensive ($300-400 a pop). This forum has a lot of good information, as well as homebrew results.
You'll be a lot happier with a bottom of the line projector than anything home-brew... especially if you're talking about a modern DLP projector. Much has been done in the last couple years to improve the quality of projectors-- take advantage of it.
I recommend scouring ebay-- take your time-- for a good deal on a projector manufactured in the last year or two. They retail at about a grand to start, so $300-500 on ebay should be possible.
jrjBlog
I did the same thing recently. After much research, I concluded that the $1000 InFocus X1 was an especially good value: It uses DLP technology which doesn't burn-in if you play lots of games, and is quite bright (1100 Lumens). I just took a trip to their site, and see that they now have an X2 which ups the brightness a bit for the same price. They also don't rape you quite as bad as other companies for new bulbs. The only downside to this projector is the 800x600 resolution.
BTW, on the subject of games - playing on one of these is videogame ecstasy. Definitely plan to invest in wireless controllers for each of your consoles.
I'm doing this at my house, and my living room isn't that big. I bought a Benq pb6100 new for this. It's only 800x600 but it's 1500 lumen and DLP. It looks nice in my opinion, and they only run $1000-1200 new. It also has an economy mode that lets you squeeze 3000 hours out of the lamp. I use a light grey 73" pulldown window shade from lowes for a screen though, and i've never had a problem with room lights, and the grey offers great contrast. Just my two cents
Ahh, the American way!
Bush: I bomb whoever the fuck I feel like bombing.
NEC has one of the best home theater projectors in the sub 10's of thousand dollar range the HT1000. It has been replaced by the HT1100.
This projector has been on the top of most folks most recommended list for the past year or so. You can look it up on the avs forums.
They listed for 4995 originally (and that was a blow out price for the performance of the projector). But it is currently being phased out, and can be purchased at really good prices but they are extremely limited. Many home theater providers are out of them, but they can still be had... You can get one for 2625 at triocomputers.com, which was a good enough deal I just bought one.
But... The 1100 is out, and can be purchased in the 3800 dollar range and has a few nice features, but also has a 200 dollar upgrade for an anamorphic lens (which goes for 1100-1800 bucks ordinarally). This allows you to show a wide screen display, but still use all of the pixels in the projector. This results in about a 20% improvment in brightness, better sharpness, and much less visibility of individual pixels.
But the HT1000, is a more than satisfactory projector, indeed it is one of the best home theater projectors available in the below 10k price range, and at 2625 is a steal.
I can't imagine that a homebrew would offer the variety of inputs that any commercial projector would: NTSC/PAL/VGA/XVGA s-video, composite, component, etc..
Also, setting up even a commercial projector is a complete PITA: keystone, focus, etc... this would be doubly so: consider, commercial projectors typically have remote controls and electronic adjustments. Unlikely to be true for any home made system.
Having said that. The X1 is a magnificent beast. Accepts any signal you might want to throw at it. The image quality is awesome. In, my opinion well worth the $999. Take a look at a dealer. You'll buy one.
-Simon
I purchased a nice used Boxlight XP-55m for only $600 on eBay. It has native XGA resolution. Purchased a 10 foot diagonal glass bead screen for $125 plus shipping from DaLite. Had to build my own mahogany entertainment center, because they just don't sell 'em with projection screens in mind. $75 worth of black flannel cloth from Walmart, $2 worth of shower curtain rings, and a couple of 1" oak dowels turned into theater curtains with upper/lower masks. Total cost of entertainment center materials was under $600, so the whole project has come in under $2000 - but looks like a lot, lot more. Also, I'm not sure why but DVD's look best when played back from a computer. I'm comparing our DVD's svideo connection to our computer's DVI-out port (with a DVI-to-SVGA adaptor), but the clarity is nonetheless superior.
:)
Plus, it looks way cool to play Age of Mythology on such a big screen
"He who throws mud, loses ground." - proverb
I got a used projector for $300 ish awhile ago.
:)
It was great! I loved it!! There were a few dust spots tho.. Found a place in town that said they'd clean it for $80.
I said great!
They cleaned it, and ruined one of my LCD panels. Then they said it looked like that when I brought it in.
I couldn't prove otherwise. After all, it was used and I hadn't shown anyone else the picture before I took it in..
Used is used..
The X1 is getting good reviews. So is Dell's 2200 model at around $900. I'm leaning towards one of those, probably the Dell..
p.s. I gave the "ruined" projector ot a friend at work, he said Unreal looks great on the wall with the wrong colors from the broken LCD panel..
This might be fun for a 50 foot space invaders romp!
=)
e.
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I tried to build the projector from those very same plans, and I have nearly completed it. The last element to get is the 5" LCD, which is harder to find than you might think (and hard to find CHEAP)... anyway, the idea seems sound, I even tested it by ripping the LCD out of a $2 calculator and shining a flash light through it. However, never finishing the projector I cant say as to how well it actually works... sorry.
virtually every projector under the sun measures bulb life in "hundreds of hours"
Most new consumer projectors will have bulb lives of around 3000 hours. Many also feature low pressure bulbs that can be replaced for around $200. Are you sure you've researched this at all?
This also has to do with the home theater question, because if you watch a lot of movies or TV shows, you're going to find youself using a bulb or two each year and that's not cheap.
Again, this is overstated. If you used your projector for 4 hours a day (and I don't know anyone who would do this), one bulb would last about two years in most new consumer projectors.
If you're the kind of person who watches more than 4 hours of TV a day, I indeed wouldn't recommend a projector. I'd recommend surgery.
Can they be modified to work with other light sources (given that overhead projector bulbs are no bargain either)
There's a reason projectors (overhead or video) use fancy bulbs. They need lots of brightness and even lighting. There's probably lots of options available if you're willing to have a horrible picture - but I think I'd prefer to spend $100 a year on bulbs (assuming 4hr/day use).
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
As another poster mentioned, the best place to go is the AVSForum. However, here is a quick breakdown of your options.
I would not suggest rolling a DIY projector, you will get much higher quality image from a basic manufactured unit. Entry level is around $1000 at the moment, a couple thousand for a native HD unit. (You can find cheaper stuff in the used market).
There are four primary technologies being used in frong projecttion right now:
LCD - Cheap, but generally considered a good value. Lower contrast and more screendoor than other technologies, but can still look pretty good. You can get a nice 1280x720 (720p) LCD projector for about $2000. Check out the Panasonic AE500 or the Sanyo Z2. Sony's HS20 is also nice for a little more money. Lesser expensive LCDs are available but generally throw relatively poor images (IMHO).
DLP - Very popular right now. Generally provides a better picture than LCD. Limited to 720p for now. A true 16x9 HD DLP projector will run you more than an LCD. Probably looking at at around $4000 minimum to over $10000. The BenQ 8700 is a GREAT value at the moment. Lower priced DLPs are also available, all the way to $999 for the InFocus X1. These lower priced DLPs are generally not high-def and most 4x3, instead of 16x9. Use of an anamorphic lense can turn them into native 16x9 projectors, but adds cost and complexity.
DLPs have the best contrast of current consumer projectors by a good margin. One thing to be carful of is that a some of people see rainbows or get headaches when watching DLPs. This is less of an issue on newer models with a faster color wheel, but may be an issue on less expensive models. Check out brands like BenQ, InFocus, NEC, Marantz, Dwin, Sim2 for good DLP projectors.
LCOS - This is the technology of choice for JVC. It has lower contrast than DLP but throws a smoother image due to its higher fill-factor. Its often described as very "film-like". Can support higher resolutions than DLP for now. A lot of the current LCOS projectors are large and not very user friendly. There are some more players entering the LCOS market, including Sony, with a native 1080p device, but it quite expensive. I'm not quite as up-to-date on LCOS projectors as DLP and LCD, but its worth a look.
CRT - The grandaddy of projection. CRT can throw a wonderful image, altough digitals are catching up quickly. Manufacturers aren't really making them anymore so most are found in the used market. They are big, HEAVY, and require lot s of maintenence. They are also generally dimmer than digitals.
- At 800x600 resolution you can visibly see the pixels. There are visible gridlines with on a 120' screen if you stand about 3 feet away. People who visit mainly don't notice it though.
- You'll need an absolutely dark room to watch it during the day with good quality. Plan to buy heavy drapes for any offending windows.
- Not enough inputs. My projector uses the VGA connector and a dongle to connect Component video. This sucks if you want to hook your computer up along with your AV equipment. Map out your input needs before shopping, or you'll end up buying an expensive receiver to manage it all.
And a couple words of caution on projectors in general:- The fans can be rather loud. If you plan to have it sitting right next to you, plan on having the stereo up. The DB level is somewhat higher than your average computer.
- Plan to buy new lamps on a yearly basis. My projector lamp is rated at 2000 hours, and it will actually visibly start to dim at about 75% that. Lamps usually cost several hundred dollars. This would be a big concern with eBay stuff.
- If you have a nice clean wall with a slightly irregular surface, don't bother with a screen. I spent $300 and my wall still looks better (although it does brighten up the picture in the daytime).
All in all, I will never ever buy a TV again. My $900 projector has a bigger/better picture than any $1000 TV. Next time I buy though, I'll go for more lumens, higher resolution, and seperate component and VGA inputs.The meek shall inherit the earth, in 3 by 6 plots. - Lazerus Long
I recently got an Infocus 4800, and here are some bits of advice.
1. Get as much native resolution as you can, at least 1024 x 768.
2. Don't get too crazy with lumens. The people who do installs say most projectors need between 600 and 800 lumens. The lower the lumens, the longer the bulb lasts.
3. Make sure you buy one for the appropriate use. Some projectors are designed for conference rooms, so they are designed to make an image that doesn't change, much, look good. Some projectors are designed for home theaters, so their video processors are designed for constantly changing images.
4. Inputs, Inputs, Inputs! Get one that has Component video-in plugs(not goofy adapters), S-Video, VGA, and DVI(it's becoming the standard video output). Also, make sure it supports progressive scan and 16:9 aspect ratio(almost all do).
5. Get the best screen you can afford(see #8). I recommend either Da-Lite or Stewart.
6. Cover any/all windows/light sources. The more ambient light, the more washed out the picture.
7. Once you have it, buy a color calibration CD. It's a lot cheaper than having a professional come in and calibrate it, and you get great results.
8. Make sure your room is big enough. The first row of seating(e.g. couch) should be no closer than 1.6 times the diagonal measurement of the screen. Any closer and you see every pixel(commonly called the "screen door effect").
Also, someone mentioned rear projection. Don't go that way. Rear projection screens are almost 10x more expensive, and, since they are glass, are known to "prism" the image(the image changes as you get to more extreme viewing angles...with the light actualy being like from a prism).
else.....Runco projectors are the way to go....
Being a high-end Audio/video technician, I think I'd know. Get a CRT projector with a rear-projection kit onto a 110 inch screen, and your good to go.
-zuka
I like it. I'm projecting on a white wall (no screen yet) from about 10 feet with a Dell 3300MP. It's ceiling-mounted. The image is 83 inches (4:3, diagonal, wide-angle limit). The color reproduction (even without a screen) is beautiful, and the image is very clean. You will need a progressive scan DVD player with a component video output. Images that large suffer greatly from the poor signal quality of composite video (I tried that first, it was bad enough that I couldn't even fully focus the player because the signal was blurry - still watchable though). I haven't tried S-video yet.
I paid $1750 to Dell for the projector. It's a DLP rated at 1200 lumens, and with a native resolution of 1024x768, which is enough to play widescreen DVDs at 576p (which is better than DVDs put out) without "compression".
Be careful with eBay projectors. The lamps cost a pretty penny (Like 1/4 to 1/2 the cost of the projector), and the used ones may not have much lamp life left.
Also: be sure that your lifestyle fits a projector. The room needs to be dark (with my setup at least). You can't watch a movie and do something with your hands, like my wife sometimes does, without a desk lamp, and that affects the projector's image quality.
I imagine that a screen will help a lot, but I'm not there yet. I'll probably buy something inexpensive from Draper in the next few months.
vi is my shepard, I shall not font.
Check out projector central (http://www.projectorcentral.com/home.cfm) for reviews and reccomendations. I myself have an InFocus X1, which seems to be recommended by several folks around here. I'm really pleased with my X1, the !/$ ratio is off the charts IMHO, but it might not be for everyone-- it's vital to try before you buy.
Proper light control is also essential with front projection, if you don't have an appropriate room, consider other display devices, such as rear projection, direct view CRT, LCD, Plasma, etc.
If you have an appropriate room, front projection is the most film like, and is more like going to the movies than watching TV.
You should be able to get a decent projector for $1500 - $3000 depending on what your tastes are. The most important thing is to actually look at lots of projectors in stores that are showing what you want to watch, whether it be broadcast sports, widescreen DVD movies, or computer games. Don't get a used one, save up for another few months and buy a new one. New bulbs cost $300-$600 and the brightness drops drastically after about half the bulbs rated life (the rated life varies a lot, but a bulb should last a couple years unless you never leave your house ...
...
If you're only interested in regular video, not computer projection or HDTV, the resolution of the projector is a red herring. If not, get a 1024x768 res unit.
Most people seem to think DLP style projectors have a better video image and LCD style projectors have a better computer image. LCD styles have a very high black level (a black image is dark gray on the screen) whereas DLP have a nice black. Again, this is more important for video than computer images. Just remember a good LCD projector is going to look better than a fair DLP projector no matter what, so use your eyes when shopping.
Don't get anything with less than 1000 lumens brightness. Around 1500 is probably OK for up to a 5' wide screen if you don't keep the lights up too high. Much more than 2000 is probably wasted unless you have a very big screen or want to use it somewhere in addition to your living room.
HDTV is hard to figure out. Many projectors say they handle it, but it's usually scan converted down inside the projector since 1080i is a bit over 1900 pixels wide and even 720p is 1280 pixels wide, so unless you have at least a 1280x1024 projector, the whole HDTV thing is a little bit of a sales con. If HD is important to you, you should look at the higher resolution units. As I said, look at it in the store. If it looks good to you, that's all that matters.
Good luck, I wish I could afford one
After a lot of research. I came to the conclusion that a projector makes sense if you want a huge image but don't have the room for a massive TV.
e lLanding/0,10 58,1055,00.html
This is what I was looking for when I started shopping:
1) multiple inputs ( s-video, rca video, vga ) I did component input via a component to vga cable (bought 75' online whereas the official sharp cable was $50 for 15' of cable.
2) Small ( not enough room in our family room for a big LCD TV, plus the room is on the 2nd floor. )
3) Support for HDTV resolutions ( i just use 480p for DVD movies now )
4) under $1500 - i didn't want to spend more because of the cost of bulbs. Still, factoring in that I'll replace the bulb in a couple of years I've still spent less than a decent LCD tv. Also, I had to budget for buying a home theatre receiver and speakers.
We don't use the projector for everyday tv watching, but its AWESOME to throw up a huge image across the wall for movies and video games (mario kart & rogue squadron ).
Product Info ( i don't work for sharp, own their stock, I just bought the projector):
http://www.sharpusa.com/products/Mod
If a bar in your area gets shut down see if they have an auction or find out what liquidation place they use to sell off the old equipment. I know more than one guy who's gotten a good (but old) projector (that's not the expensive part) and a half-decent screen (that can be the expensive part).
Of course, you have to keep your ear to the ground...
crazy dynamite monkey
Discreet. The word you wanted is discreet. There is a difference.
I took the home theater plunge about a year ago. And AVSforums is the place for all your questions. Spend many hours on their boards and it will save you problems down the line. As for projector, I picked up a used CRT projector with 8" lenses off of ebay. I paid $579 for it. The picture quality on CRT's can't be touched by DLPs and LCDs. All the serious videophile's aggree on that. THe only reason I can see for going with a DLP or LCD would be if you cannot keep your theater dark enough. It's a very fun hobby. And with my Athlon XP2600+ powering it, I can watch hdtv material that I download off of alt.binaries.hdtv too! Even better quality than DVD's. The picture I get from my el-cheapo home theater is as good as film in the theater. And I can get true blacks with no screen door effect, unlike the LCD and DLP projectors. I did it on the cheap and you can too with a bit of research.
yep, those "homebrews" are pretty hurting... very very faint, because they generally use the existing light from your monitor, blow it up using a Fresnel lens, and project it on the wall. Not only does that cut down on the light so dramatically that you'll have to seal your windows and doorframes with black tape, but the Fresnel lens (because it's just a sheet of plastic) doesn't give you the best picture... you get thousands of concentric circles, just like on an old overhead projector.
Standing at the very edge of my imagination, I peered into the inky void and realised -- I couldn't think up a new sig.
Proxima DP6850 (about eBay$ 1300 for 1500 lumens, nice picture, etc) on a shelf i built above the headboard of the bed, projects 78" image onto the opposite wall a few feet past the foot of the bed. After I sanded the screen (white sheetrock wall) down a bit, I was pretty happy with the image quality, which itself I suspect to be typical of projectors in this price range.
I love laying back on a custom-manufactured king-sized bed, and watching 78-inch movies with Dolby Digital sound though. And some people settle for movie seats.
I personally have gotten 5 older CRT projectors from various locations that have upgraded to LCD. With a little work I was able to cobble together 2 perfectly good projectors. They work great for movies, just don't expect to be able to read size 12 fonts on them. Newer CRT projectors can handle it, but for free its a awesome deal.
This can look awesome if you do it right. Of course you have to get used to the spaces between the screens and the power consumption sucks. But hey, you can experiment with this for almost nothing. Buy monitors used and if you don't like the results you can sell them for just about what you payed for them.
e am er/www.old/htdocs/docs/video-wall-howto.html?rev=1 .5
http://freedesktop.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/gstr
you can't compare the LCD screen on the phone and a projector.
Phone: light passes through LCD and hits your retina
Projector: light passes through LCD, reflects from screen/wall, and hits your retina.
My 2c
"A man never stands to tall as when he stoops to trollbaiting..."
"A man never stands TOO tall as when he stoops to trollbaiting..." GET A BRAIN! MORAN!
I would go for either the Panasonic PT-L500U or the Sanyo PLV-Z2. Both use the same Epson LCD, so they're fairly similar. They run at at 1280x720, which gives you HD resolution (full 720p widescreen or resized 1080i).
And, they both include DVI HDCP which means that you can have a full end-to-end digital connection from your DVD player to your projector (just make sure you get a DVD player that suports DVI (such as the Bravo D1).
They have differing list prices but both sell for around $2000 each (plus you'll need to buy a screen as well). And before you buy one, I'd recommend checking out HomeTheaterForum.com and AVSForum.com (not linked to prevent Slashdotting). Both of those forums are great resources and anyone there will be happy to answer your questions.
Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
I have read, on avsforum, about people who are using a specific sheet plastic (bathroom shower) material bought from the Home Depot for HT screens. They rave about how much better it is than commercial Draper or Dalite screens.
You might want to try that before dropping some dough on a commercial roll-up screen that is either too reflective/not enough or rolls down unevenly.
I went the homebrew route with my motorized drop-down screen ( http://techfreakz.org/~rolan/ht ) because it had to be wife-friendly.
If I could leave the screen down all the time, or find a way to hide when not in use, I'd probably go with the plastic shower material.
At $20 for a 4x8 sheet, it's worth a try.
Projecting onto the bare wall or (heaven forbid) a white sheet will kill you---and the picture. Get yourself a nice Da-Lite screen. The size of the room (i.e., the distance from the screen and your projector will determine the max size of your screen). In my 12x12 room with a ceiling mounted projector, I maxed out at 109". Nothing like having a larger-than-life superbowl, especially the 1/2-time show (tee hee).
Yeah, right.
I've got a Sony VPH 1270, something you can still find on eBay for under $1000. Yeah, it's big, but no LCD is ever going to compare to a 3-gun CRT. Add a line doubler and hang the projector from the ceiling, pointed at a nice screen, and you've got a beautiful view of any video game, movie, or computer screen you dare to hook up to it. Lifespan of the guns is 10,000 hours if they're taken care of. Line doublers are less than $500 and a good screen should be less than $300. Ceiling mounts are usually about $200. So, for less than $2000 you can have a complete setup. Hell, I'll sell you mine for $1500.
"This $30,000 projector has better picture quality than yours."
"Oh yeah? My picture is awesome, since it's framed by $28,000 dollars in cash."
It's nothing but crumpled porno and Ayn Rand.
What a lot of people don't realize is that it is also better than a lot of the more expensive projectors out there also. It has great contrast and the colors look superb. What this long throw projector lacks in some people's eyes is its resolution: 800x600 . But guess what, unless you're watching HD signals (720p/1080i/p) , you won't notice a thing. Sure you might not get a great picture when you hook your PC up to it, but the reader asked for a home theater projector and the last I checked there were just a few HD DVD players, and even fewer movies that supported HD quality resolutions.
Also, it will take the higher resolution signals (which only work through its vga port - grab the component break out cable from the Infocus website) and scale them the approriate resolution. The projector has a built in Faroudja deinterlacer (see http://www.dcdi-video.com/technology/articles/sage -dcdi-overview.html for more explanation) also, which happens to be one of the best DCDi chips out there.
The best place to get started with an X1 is to check out the very, very informative X1 FAQ by technet at http://members.shaw.ca/technut/x1faq/
Based on research, I was able to build my own home theater using the X1 for cheaper than the big screen rear projector TV I bought and returned because of a crummy picture and scratch on the screen. For around 2k I built the home theater which included: the X1, the sound system (onkyo) , the dvd player, the paint for the walls, and the material to build the screen. Send me a private message for pics.
-LDon't Panic.
Sony introduces the ultimate home theater projector for the A/V specialty and custom installation market with 1920 x 1080 resolution.
f m? part_id=2266
http://www.projectorcentral.com/part_opinions.c
- Bulb life is always and issue. Most are rated up to around 8000 hours (if you watched six hours a day, it would wash out to about 3.5 years). When you need to replace that bulb, it will set you back another $400-$500.
- They don't offer true HD resolutions. 1386 x 788 is about as high as they go which will resolve 720p just fine. But, that means 1080i would need to be down converted to fit the screen, a process that I have personally seen introduce jaggies to an otherwise beautiful picture.
- The dreaded screen door effect. If you blow up your DLP projector too big, you will see what is called the screen door effect where you can make out each pixel of the DLP chip. Not too pretty. Go to your local AV shop and get real close to the screen to actually see them. If you are not careful, you can make those big enough to be seen from all over the room.
My beef is the lack of true 1080i support. Supposedly, the LCOS chips coming will be able to support 1080i, but I haven't actually seen these projectors yet.As someone mentioned above, you need to determine the needs of the projector and if true HD resolution is one of them, hold off for now.
Bryan R.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, or $12.50 as seen on eBay.....
A number of older models (up to 800x600 res) can
be found on ebay for ~200. If you pick the right
ones they use very cheap ($6) FXL bulbs (same as
used in overhead projectors). These typically
last 30-50 hours. If you find you want to spend
more and get highly quality, these projectors
will always be easy to sell on due to the very low
bulb replacement burden.
http://www.audioadvice.com They have everything you need to know about home-theater and will work with you to fit your budget no matter how large or small it is.
This site has some really nice plans and a really good support community. http://www.lumenlab.com
I'd love to hear an example of a projector with replacement bulbs that cost less than $200
The lamp for my Epson S1 (which cost $900) is $199 at FocusedTechnology. This lamp is rated for 2000 hours, but reports I've heard suggest this is conservative - and that the bulb will last longer if well ventilated. I wouldn't buy a Dell, although I haven't looked a bunch at their offerings.
So, explain why I can't use a cheaper light source that is just as bright if I don't need it necessarily to fit into a itty bitty plastic case?
It's not just about brightness, it's about even-ness, temperature, and - as you suggest - size. Some projectors do use halogen bulbs, but they typically have very short lifetimes (~100 hours, I think). Most consumer projectors use metal halide bulbs.
With correct ventilation, and with no size restriction, you may well be able to use a different kind of lamp. Again, I think what you'll be unable to find is a lamp that can light evenly enough to create a quality picture.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
Yeah. It works great for $10, no kidding. Key word is works. You get what you pay for, and not a bit more or less. I made the housing for the lens with about $5 of black foam board and some black duct tape I already had.
I looked up the cost of a comparable Fresnel lens and it was the same price either way. The two ways being thus... Buying the plans and lens from Ebay, or buying the lens without a plan from an online lens shop. Go with the plans. You'll get a cheapo lens that you may or may not be happy with but you're getting it for about the right price.
You can get a high quality rigid lens for about thirty bucks and make a better projector or upgrade the one you already built, but you really need a good SOURCE before you upgrade the lens. A bubble-shaped fourteen inch monitor from ten years ago is not a good source. You need a truly flat screen or you'll only be able to get one part of the screen in focus at a time. It'll make you crazy. That's just simple optical physics, though. My Diamondtron works just fine as a source, and LCD monitors are great.
Also, a bright video source is pretty much required because the light projected onto a point decreases exponentially with increasing distance. More simple physics there. So you're going to need a bright screen, bright target screen for projection, and a dark room. Let's face it. Your CRT just can't compete with a projector bulb in terms of brightness. You can't make a fresnel based projector that works well in a well lit room.
In case you were wondering: The lens you get is a flimsy letter paper sized plastic sheet, but it's most definitely a lense. You can use it for a large rectangular magnifying glass. In fact I think Staples has a lighted reading magnifier that uses one of these.
I don't sell stuff on Ebay or otherwise, nor am I promoting these kits. I just want to provide some info for anyone who's considering purchasing one of these, so you can make an educated choice about whether it is the right thing for you to do.
The moral of this post is to make sure what you've already got will be adequate before you buy a DIY kit.
I found a $300 1024x768 panel on ebay and coupled it with a bright overhead projector I got for $100 on ebay. Sure it's no DLP, but I can watch movies on a 120" diagonal now. It's fun to measure your screen in feet rather than inches. Also, I can now call my 40" widescreen my "small tv."
I love how everyone seems to be bitchin' and moanin' about projector's limited bulb life. I was worried about it too when I was choosing my projector but then did some math and calmed down.
The bulb life on my Sony VPL-HS20 is 3000 hours in "cinema mode". I figure that with my schedule I won't be able to watch more than 1 hour per day (aside from an occasional LOR marathon). So that gives me a whooping 3,000 days before bulb goes caput. That's over 8 friggin' years! I figure that in eight years technology will advance so far that instead of spending $$$ on a new bulb I'll get a new projector or whatever the imaging device de la creme will be. (300dpi wall-to-wall imaging nanopaper, anyone?)
As for people saying that projectors are expesnive, I have to disagree. I get an eyepopping 120" diag. image for under $3K. Even if plasma screen of this size existed, it would probably cost over $100K. Of course, a nice Home Theater PC that is hooked up to the projector through DVI and an excellent 120" sceeen from Carada.com cost me an extra 1.5K, it is still a bargain. The only drawback is that the room has to be relatively dark, but this is not a problem in my case because it is in the basement.
"You mortals are so obtuse." -Q
but I had a 5.6" LCD, and the backlight went out on me. The panel itself was fine, but the light wouldn't turn on, so I disassembled the device and laid the panel on a over head projector I bought for $30 on eBay, and each lamp cost about $15 (two lamp set up, you flip a lever and it slides the spare lamp over in case of a burn out). The LCD has a 12V power source, which I hooked up to a SFF computer I bought, and the other inputs are audio/video RCA. Obviously the speaker on the thing is shit, so I leave the audio open. I got a VGA to NTSC converter from eBay for $14. You can probably make your own, the circuit looks simple enough. I don't have any capability to make circuit boards though, so $14 sounded good to me. Run the computer into the LCD and presto.
The projector is about 2400 lumens. In PITCH DARK it works great. Any ambient light and forget it. You'll need more like 4000 lumens if you can't eliminate all the light. Obviously you have to fashion some sort of light blocker for the rest of the projector or the light will over come the image. Being cheap and poor, I used a piece of foam board and cut out a rectangle to match the LCD screen. It works pretty well, but foam board is a mother fucker to cut straight. Next iteration of this I'm gonna use fiberglass.
My parents also had a slide projector screen. I "borrowed" that and it works a thousand times better than a sheet or a blank wall. The material is the best for reflecting the image. I highly recommend getting an actual projection screen.
As a full fleged EE, this will prove to be simple unless you have trouble fabricating your own things. Good luck. You can easily do this for under $200 if you shop around.
Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
If you're a tinkerer at all, consider buying an old CRT projector. They aren't as bright (not that you need all the lumens the business projectors throw) and you need to focus the three guns seperately, but once you do you get a very nice picture without the flaws of the current generation.
I see rainbows in DLP projectors, as do most people I know, though some don't seem bothered by it. LCDs aren't offensive, but the screen-door look isn't very impressive. CRTs don't have either problem.
This is the route I went. A friend of mine bought me an Electrohome ECP-4101 projector off of EBay for USD 1200 after reconditioning. (Funny how the price has fallen, this one was $50k USD in the mid-90s when new.)
It's 30kg and big, but cheaper than the decent modern projectors and without the artifacts I mentioned.
It'll do 1280x1024 and movies look great when played by the computer, much better than out of even high-end DVD players. Easily accomplished with a wireless keyboard and mouse. It's also a great screen for games, or computing when sick.
They have a ten thousand hour lifespan, but if you leave them on a static screen they can suffer burn-in a bit (like old monitors).
I just didn't think the current generation of LCD or DLP projectors were ready. They're small, but expensive and not that great of quality. In five or ten years I'm sure I'll get one, but I didn't want to be on the bleeding edge.
The fella asks a perfectly legitimate question: What about projection displays in 24/7 environments like network centers? He then points out that perfection isn't required for this, it's a "good-enough" non-videophile situation.
You then get all supercilious about his even having the temerity to ask such a question, and downright rude about folks who might watch lots of TV. You cap it off with an obvious comment on bulb quality, again, after the poster pointed out quality wasn't an issue and a bit of accommodation was acceptable (rear-projecting onto a 30 inch screen doesn't require a bright bulb anyway.)
Way to drive down the quality of real signal to noise here, Bub. Can't thank you enough for working out your social insecurities on a legitimate poster asking a useful and /.-audience relevant question. Hope you feel all big and proud of yourself now for cutting him down to (your) size.
Finally, on a personal note, while it may be unheard of in your snide little world there are folks who do watch lots of TV: My Mom is one. She's retired and has fought bouts of depression for 50 years. Yes, there are days she's doing well to get out of bed to watch the big TV thankyouverymuch.
Frankly the one who needs surgery is you: Attitude and social skill upgrade, stat.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
My uncle is a movie-techno-geek from a long way back, and recently set up just such a system. He found two things that needed adjusting.
The first was that these projectors are designed for computer presentations in large rooms, so the light was ridiculously bright for DVDs and such in a home theater. Solution: a neutral density filter between the optics and the screen.
The second was that the colour temperature was much too high (too blue). Solution: a warming filter. It's a very pale rose pink colour. People don't look like aliens anymore.
The results are striking. I'm tempted myself.
...laura
-whisper, whisper-
"Make that, the Spartans from Crete!"
Yeah, right.
Don't go with a projector if you don't have the budget. A sub $1k projector is just plain painful if you ever do see a $5k+ one in action.
My primary TV is a 60" Plasma, and I am adding a Vidikron Projector ($10k) with a drop down 10' screen . I have used cheap projectors, and after the novelty wears off, I hated watching anything on it.
First off, I own a Sony VPH-1278Q. Paid $1350 for it from eBay seller BPAI in Maryland, went and picked it up in person.
LCD and DLP projectors are compact, lightweight, and portable. Bright images from a small unit. Bulb costs are high, and the color intensity changes with the bulb life. Fixed resolution for the panels, there are widescreen units availible. Screen cannot do true black, there is always illumination even when the screen is "black"
CRT projectors are bulky, a pain in the ass to setup (you have to converge all 3 guns together). The 1278Q can do 1280x1024 I believe, but I run it from a HTPC @ 1024x768. Mine generates some noise, I could take efforts to silence it but it doesn't bother me.
CRT life can hit 8000 hours, the blue is the first to go. Static images burn in on CRT projectors, DLP/LCD don't suffer from this issue. CRT can do true black, all power to guns is cut and the screen is dark. CRT's are also known to have a hotness in the color when there is just a tiny bit, that is if there is just a little bit of red then it will be over-emphasised a bit because it takes a certain amount of power to fire the CRT (I haven't noticed this, this is from what I've read).
The CRT projector prices are falling, BUT ****BEWARE**** because many of the units on the surplus market are from corporate use, where they have been abused. Windows NT login splash burned into the display, etc. Be careful about this!!! There are hour counters on CRT projectors, mine had about 2200 hours on it when I bought it. I noticed some 4:3 browning but it didn't have any effect as it was outside of my projection area.
There is a bit more info on my web page above.
People balk at the size of my projector and start to talk about something they saw at SAMS club for xyz. There is much more to it than just point and shoot.
Southeastern Virginia REPRESENT!
I love it. It's by far the coolest thing I've ever used for watching DivX's. I don't have a lot of experience to compare it with though. I like it a lot more than the projecor we use at work for Powerpoint stuff.
Unfortunately, with the X1 I am having a problem with visible noise on the S-Video input. I see gray lines that track from the bottom of the screen to the top. This is almost certainly a power problem and may be solved by getting a better S-Video cable or moving the projector power plug to a different circuit.
My other first post is car post.
Like a Epson Powerlite S1 or an Infocus X1. The picture will be infinitely better than what you'd get from a homebrew. Don't even consider the homebrew thing. Really. I've seen a few (based on CRT's or overhead projectors and LCD panels) and they are really poor.
I second this opinion. The homebrew thing is not worthwhile today given the cost of the latest round of commercial projectors. Two years ago, when I started tinkering, it was feasible to attempt. Low-end projectors then cost 50% more for significantly worse performance. Today, you will have to spend $600-700 to almost match the performance of a $800-900 entry-level commercial DLP projector like the X1 or S1 mentioned. Don't be fooled by sites that claim it only costs $300-400. That is only for the specialized bulb/ballast, lenses, and cabinetry required. You're looking at another $250+ for a halfway decent LCD screen that you can remove the backlight from and project through. Those old projection panels you can find on eBay are crap. (Proxima, iView, etc.)
Trust me. I'm a hard core DIYer and I've tried the homebrew LCD projector thing. It's not that it doesn't work at all, but this is a case of inadequate technology available to the home experimenter to match commercial products. It's simply not worth your time and efforts. If you want a good project, build a "Sonotube" subwoofer. That will save you lots of money *and* give you outstanding results. Once you get a projector, you can make your own custom screen that fits nicely with your HT room. That's another worthwhile money-saver.
A note to the author or anyone else considering a front projector for home theater: be very very wary of lighting conditions. If you have, say, a dedicated home theater in a basement room with no windows, or any other type of situation where you can completely control your environment, front projectors may very well be the best option (man, that adjustable screen is cool!). But any sort of ambient light at all is going to make you extremely unhappy with the picture. Home theater projectors are far different from computer-based video projectors in this sense. DLP is as bright as front projectors come, and it's still not good at all in a room with ambient light. And I'm not just a videophile being picky. Go to an Ultimate Electronics or if you're lucky enough to have a Magnolia around, go there, and demo one out, asking the sales rep for a small amount of light in the room. Decide for yourself. These things aren't for living rooms, or any room with a window, or somewhere where the next room over will frequently have a light on, etc... But that being said, in a completely controlled environment, front projectors rock. And the engineer in original post should build his own, to satisfy his own curiosity and because that's just damn cool.
Don't forget that the bulb life on the average "PowerPoint Projector" is around 2000 hours. The cheapest retail projector ($1000) range could take a new bulb that cost in the neighborhood of $250. So figuring only one 2 hour movie a night you won't even get a year out of one bulb. Figure you'll end up spending around $1000 on a projector and in 3 years a $1000 in bulbs. In the long run, you're better off spending the $2 grand that a good large screen TV will cost.
I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
I thought you could only get the "screen door" effect with an LCD - where you could see lines in-between the pixels (thus the term "screen door"). I think the effect you mention is just the case of having only so many pixels, but is not "screen door".
The bulb cost is not that much anymore - I think the X1 is now rated for 3000-4000 hours of bulb life, and if you look at the infocus store the bulbs are only $250 or so!
I agree about the HD resolution, I would like real 1080i... though I have to say that 1080i even downsampled still looks really really good on the X1! And DVD's I think look at good as they can on anything that supports 720p or lower. Basically I'll probably wait for my X1 to die before I get some kind of next-get DLP projector that supports true 1080i (that or if too many thing need DHCP support, which the X1 does not have).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The people over at projector central seem to love this projector. I'm going to be buying one myself. Check it out.
Doesn't address your questions directly, but I stumbled across a site some time ago that shows in detail the building of a home studio. You can find the picture gallery here.
How exactly does that work? :-)
Please help metamoderate.
Are you serious? The only thing I've ever seen an engineer build right was a ham sandwitch.
DIY Projector
Articles and a store for you to build one for about $200-$300.
Unlike the link given in the original article this one isn't a slashdotted geocities page with a weak google cache link.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
From what I can see, X1 bulbs are really more like $350. So I was a bit off on cost there.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Myself, I picked up Fujix P401 Mini Projector a long while back. I had to get it fixed, but it works great now. No bigger than a couple of stacked VHS tapes. Unfortunately, the bulbs are very hard to obtain (6 volt), and the resolution is very poor (320 x 200 or something). But it looks OK if you keep the screen size down (below 50" diagonal), and games play OK on it. I found that a shower curtain works OK for a screen, if you can get all of the wrinkles out. But what works fabulous for a screen, comes in a variety of sizes, rolls up, and is very cheap - is a blackout blind! I bought mine from Home Depot, I think I spent $15.00 or so on it. I think it was 60 inches wide or so. Mounted it to the ceiling, and it can pull down, lock, then pull and retract away. Very smooth surface, white and reflective. Not as good as a Da Lite, but much cheaper!
For a screen, look into getting a Da Lite. One thing to do is go to garage sales (tag sales), and see if you can find a foldable slide projector screen. If you can get a good silver one, with little or no damage (an old Da Lite, for instance) - don't pay more than $20.00 (I have seen them for much, much less) - and you will have a great screen.
As far as homebrew projectors are concerned: ask yourself what is more important, a good viewing experience, or the quest to build your own projector? I have no doubt that a homebrew projector could be built, that works great and is cheap. Maybe not as good output as a real projector (though a gutted 15-17" LCD monitor laid on an overhead projector would look nice), but acceptable. If you are looking to give a good movie-like experience, crisp and bright - stick to a bought projector. Your eyes and your guests will thank you.
Oh - one more thing. Those 100 inch TV plans you see - while not a scam (it is possible to get an OK picture), I wouldn't bother with them other than to play or as a "party trick" (ie, an "Acid Warp" display - for those old schoolers who know what I mean)...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
Can anyone tell me why I should get an Infocus versus the BenQ 6100? The BenQ seems to sell better, is about the same price, and lighter. The light lasts longer, and is warranteed for an extra year.
I would be using it for weekly film nights (VHS/DVD), and occasionally for video art installations. I'm not concerned with HDTV, PC resolution, etc. I'm really wondering if there's some problem I'm not considering (fan noise? Lens quality?). Price is my main concern - I wouldn't even by considering one if they weren't in the $800-850 range.
Any advice would be helpful!
The biggest decision you should make about getting a projector is not the technology behind it (because honestly, at the consumer level, it's all about the same). What you do want to ask yourself is do you want a 16:9 (widescreen) or a 4:3 native.
Of course, you can display either one on any projector, but only one natively. If you pretty much only watch TV, 4:3 would be OK. But I would still ask you to consider 16:9 due to HDTV formats. If you only watch movies, or a mixture of the 2 (plus video games!), 16:9 is the way to go (so that leaves the X1 out of the picture).
16:9 also has some other benefits. You can get a larger maximum picture with a cheaper screen, since most screens are limited by the height (since cloth is width limited, which = height when put up on the wall). You also loose less resolution when watching normal 4:3 TV (which is somewhat a moot point since normal TV looks pretty crappy when it's 100" diagonal).
I myself have the Panasonic LT-300U. DVD's actually start looking crappy compared to HDTV on my projector. And XBox is pretty sweet when you play in HDTV mode.
One last word of advice: Make your own mount (if you're mounting from the ceiling). Don't bother to pay $200+ for a hunk of steel when you can make a better one for only $40. Just get a nylon cutting board, some ABS pipe, screws, springs and some nice black matte paint. Save yourself a bunch of cash for that HDTV convertor, and it'll be far more adjustable than the OEM one.
It's *really* amazing to see how things have gotten cheaper in the last 5 years. My home theater only cost $2000, and I don't bother going to the theaters anymore.
My reply wasn't meant to be caustic. And really I don't think it was. I think he had some facts wrong, so I thought he should do some more research - and not rule out off-the-shelf solutions based on the misconception that bulbs lasted hundreds of hours. Imagine reading that sentence in a quizzical sort of voice, not an insulting one.
Sometimes it's easy to read emotion into typing that wasn't intended to be there.
Also, I'm not going to work all my arguments around not wanting to offend those who may have good reason to do X random thing. For 99% of people, watching more than 4 hours of TV a day is a really bad idea and constitutes more TV than needs to be budgeted for.
As to the signal ratio, I provided on-topic information in my post (though I think I over-stated the standard industry bulb-life, 3000hr is still pretty rare it seems).
As to the question of using some other kind of bulb, I figured it was doable but would result in a horrible picture. While this might be acceptable in his application, he had also suggested that this might be an applicable solution for a home theatre - and I just wanted to suggest why it wouldn't work well (uneven lighting) and stress that I think this will lead to a very bad picture.
I'm sorry I offended you with the post - I certainly didn't intend it to be the flame you read it as.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
The first place I'd look if you're thinking about buying a projector is the "Highly Recommended" list at Projector Central: http://www.projectorcentral.com/recommended-home-t heater-projectors.htm
I'm using a Sanyo Z2, and couldn't be happier.
Just go there (http://www.diylabs.org/projector") ) and get the plans for their three generation pf projectors. They also have links to the materials.
The Eidophor an amazingly ingenious bit of vintage technology, used from the 50s to the 80s for REALLY BIG projections.... I want one!
If these bulb really lasts longer than 2000 hours...well great but I wish consumer reports or someone would actually do a conclusive test and not just rely on ancedote or vague impressions.
Looking back at your original problem, you probably aren't going to get even the rated bulb hours - as you'll be running the things for long periods (getting them too hot).
I sort of over-freaked at the idea of using a homebrewed lighting setup in a home theatre (where I still think it would be a bad idea) - but it might be worth a try here.
It used to be the LCD overhead panels were really cheap on EBay (and would have worked great here) - but that was a few years ago when they were being replaced with small projectors. I don't think they're going to be cheap now unless you know someone at a school or some such.
Too bad huge LCD's are so expensive..
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
That his site was slashdotted *and* that his
data transfer quota was exceeded for the month.
Slashdot, please consider mirroring the contents,
especialy if it's a Geocities site.
We need some projector nazies on this board
As a (retired) EE at age 51, I've built a lot of projects. I learned a long time ago to ask myself the following question before any home project starts:
Do I want to HAVE it, or do I want to BUILD it.
Saved myself a lot of work that way.
Cloned foods give the statement "We had that last week!" a whole new meaning.
I work for an AV company, and want to let you know to beware of lamp costs. Depending on brand and model they can run anywhere from $300-$500, and last from 500-1000 hours. Don't use the thing to watch re-runs of the West Wing on Bravo, or that lamp will die out before you know it.
Here a better place for a Ghetto Video Projector:
t m
http://www.audiovisualizers.com/madlab/lcd_proj.h
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
I've had good experience with the InFocus X1 at about 12 ft from a plaster wall, no rainbow stuff but I do get some lines once in awhile with DirectTV. It looks much better with a DVD in the PS/2. I'd probably spend the extra to go full HD if I were to do it again, but it's cheap enough. I put a 9x12 ft dropcloth on the back of the house and have it about 20 ft out, looks GREAT.
It really does require low light though. If you want to watch much during the day you'll want something at least twice as bright. I haven't tried it yet with an HD source, anyone else?
The revolution will NOT be televised.
Have you looked into a TV? I know that you can get a larger picture with a projector, but you have to ask yourself:
"How big of a picture do I need for a private movie viewing room?"
My brother just bought a 55" HDTV for 1500. That was through a buddy though. I'm not sure what you could get it for if you shopped around. It looks at about 1900 online.
Here is one link
George II -- Spreading Freedom and American values, one bomb at a time.
In other words, the distance we should be concerned with is "focal point to screen", not "projector to screen." True, but not significant unless we get some really wild lens designs. Even then they just achieve a small, bright picture. May as well use a regular LCD display if that's what you want. :-)
I know since I've been using this setup for a few months. Parts purchased from ebay
;) It's bulky and ugly, but hey it's cheap. And deep-down, everyone wants a ghetto projector...
dukane 4000 lumen projector - $90
nview z350 svga lcd panel - $260
$10 420w FXL halogen bulbs claim to be good for 50 hours, but I've been getting 80+ hours at the lower brightness setting on the ohp. I project onto a textured white wall at about 140" diagonally; dvds look almost good in a dark room.
Just in case you come across one... I lucked (?) out and a friend sold me an old Kloss Novabeam CRT projector that spent many years in storage for $100... They usually give you a 9' wide picture. If you can find one, they are worth picking up as a toy if nothing else. They were designed in the 80's (mine's a model 1-A from 1986) so the resolution is great for, say, VHS. Elite Video still carries replacement CRT's at about $300 each. The CRT's seem to last for quite a long time, I've been using mine for years with no noticeable loss in brightness. You can occassionally find them on e-bay for dirt cheap, but good luck trying to get them shipped as they are heavy beasts. They were originally sold with curved 9' wide screens, which I hear were quite delicate and a nightmare to ship.
Using the plans for the MkI at diylabs.org
:) I spent $100 on the LCD, $175 on the light, $40 on miscellaneous electronics (switch, fans, 12V power converter, wiring) I splurged the $60 for a projection screen; I highly recommend seeing what it's like without one, as I can't tell the difference between it and the bright white wall I was using at first...
First the downside, expect a LOT of tweaking to get it right. I've spent maybe 16 hours (over the course of a couple months) trying to get it just right. It all comes down to illumination; the light going through the LCD must be perfectly parallel, and then must be focused on the projection lens. If you don't get it just right, you get a bright in focus spot in the middle, falling off towards the edge.
I still don't have it quite right. I know what the problem is and I know how to fix it; if you're curious, "fresnel splitting" is what you should look for.
The biggest advantage of the plans at diylabs.org is that it uses metal halide bulbs, plenty bright enough for the job, but the bulbs only cost $30 or so each, instead of a couple hundred. You have to pay more up front, but over the life of the unit it'll more than make up for it.
You don't have to use an LCD for overhead projection. I used a typical car mount LCD, split it in half, removed the rear light array. If you go this route, two things to keep in mind; 1. the ribbon cables are fragile. I laid the whole assembly flat and coated liberally with epoxy to protect. 2. There might be a diffuser lens behind your screen. It'll look shiny and reflective, and you might assume it's a polarizer. If you can't get your projector to work try carefully removing it.
Overall I'm pretty satisfied; or at least I will be once I get the final fresnel lens I need
I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
You want good picture, theater-like quality, at a budget. Yes? Does your home theater feature a light controlled environment? Then you should buy a cheap antique 3-tube CRT projector on the used market. These babies can be had for the price you mention. (Ten years ago when they were new, they cost $50K easy.)
... 140 lbs and above is not unheard of, and setting them up correctly is a bit of a science project. They're certainly not the kind of theater-in-a-briefcase things you just casually take with you to parties.
:}
CRTs provide beautiful picture, some even do true HD resolutions. All razor sharp image without pixels.
Thing is, the picture is not as bright as that provided by modern DLP or LCD projectors, which is why you need the light controlled environment.
Also, CRT projectors weigh a ton
But the reward is amazing picture quality for your home theater with an amazing viewing experience for not a whole lot of money. Also, there's a healthy online community of CRT enthusiasts as nerdy and helpful as HAMs and vinyl freaks.
I have a 12 year old projector which paints a lovely 140" 720p 16x9 image on the screen which has the surface area of about nine 42" plasma TVs. I paid about $500 for it including all parts and peripherals. It weighs 135 lbs and I'm going to ceiling mount it directly above my viewing position in my home theater.
There's a posting here that describes someone's experiences. An infocus X1 is the projector.
A few points about the HS20 from personal experience. It *does* have amazing image quality and resolution.
But...
I went through three brand new HS20's (all sent back to Sony) before giving up on it. They all suffered from the same problem which was an inconsistent color temperature. For example, with a white screen, the lower left corner was pinkish and the top right was bluish. All three exhibited this behavior. I could get the same effect on a black screen with no inputs, so it was not my input. It seemed like a manufacturing defect with one or more of the panels being "pinched".
Second, the color registration on the three panels was never spot on and it's not adjustable. So the crosshair in the middle of the screen was white, but all the others had blue or red fringes.
Third, I wanted an all digital system. This projector has DVI input which is sweet. Unfortunately, at the native resolution of the panels (16x9 at 1388x768), it only accepts a refresh of 56.6Hz. That means movies show a slight jerkiness since the frame refresh does not sync up with output of the computer. Using a lower resolution results in blurring and scaling of the image inside of the projector which totally negates the point of a pure digital picture (and letting the computer handle scaling, etc). It also makes for a crappy desktop.
Sony also refuses to divulge any info about supported display modes. One support idiot claimed that connecting a PC to the projector via DVI was not supported and could damage the projector or PC. Sometimes Sony's proprietary ways are a little too much to bear.
I owned the previous generation of VPL Sony home theater projectors and they did not exhibit these problems (color and alignemnt). I'm hoping these flaws are fixed because it's an otherwise amazing piece of hardware.
heres what *I* did.
Browsed ebay for a few months till I found a good deal on a projector that I liked. I made sure it was a large unit with a large reflector. Bought it for $103.00 USD
Upon receiving the unit and testing it to find the metal halide bulb was indeed gone, I replaced it with my OWN bulb holder, etc, that uses a standard 11,000 lumen 500 watt tungsten lamp. Replacements now cost me 3 bucks at home depot(instead of a 600-1000). It's one of the lower voltage 500 watters so it's not a yellow light and it's rather bright.
Now when I want to pack up my 10 foot screen tv and move it, I just tuck it under my arm and out the door I go.
Note that you may have problems with macrovision on some projectors. If you find that it goes bright and dark all the time, you can thank macrovision for thier crippleware.
-Plappy
I recently bought a Sanyo Z2 for $2000. It looks great and was worth every penny. I just point it on my big flat white wall, no screen needed. It's connected to my HTPC via DVI for 720Progressive. The picture is huge, over 100 inches. I use it for anything and everything, movies, gaming, web browsing, etc. My friends and are jealous.
/ /www.lifeunderrocks.com/proj/2.JPGf eunderrocks.com/proj/3.JPGo cks.com/proj/4.JPG/ proj/5.JPGJ PG
Check out some screenshots..
http://www.lifeunderrocks.com/proj/1.JPG
http:
http://www.li
http://www.lifeunderr
http://www.lifeunderrocks.com
http://www.lifeunderrocks.com/proj/6.
http://www.lifeunderrocks.com/proj/7.JPG
Cost me about $1200, bought offline. Looks like you may be able to get it cheaper now. I've had mine for almost a year. 100+ operating hours. Playing XBox, Dreamcast and DVDs. Hooked up my laptop a few times and for some reason, it worked above 800x600 resolution. I believe my laptop is set to 1024x768. Why it still worked I have no idea, but it looked great.
I may have spent too much - maybe I could have gone with one of these $300 projectors. I didn't know there were $300 projectors at the time.
I keep my projector about 8-10 feet from a wall, used paper from an artstore to line the wall. You could guess I'm not an A/V nut. I used an old pair of powered computer speakers w/ subwoof that is plenty good enough for me. I have no idea what the ratings are, and the speakers are placed behind me when I watch movies - which one person found a little strange. I have the speakers facing at the back wall, and it doesn't bother me one bit that the sound doesn't come from the wall - either I don't notice it, or it does end up coming from the screen-wall enough that I don't care. My cats consantly knock over the speakers and I don't even bother to pick them up.. so my advice on audio should be taken with a grain of salt; though I am a musician, if that means anything.
At 8-10 feet the image is about 8' diagonally. Wide screen, full screen, computer screen, whatever - doesn't matter it looks good. I would work off of it as a desktop to work with apps - but I loaded Warcraft 3 on the laptop and it looked great. Actually - I think Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast looks better than Soul Calibur 2 on XBox, on the projector.
Maybe the novelty hasn't worn off yet - but I think this is one of the best purchases I've made. It turns every crappy game and crappy movie into something decent - because hey - it's freakin huge!
Quit being a fag and drop the cash on a good DLP projector. Bah!!! "Homebrew" projector... Have fun with your movies looking like dump.
People who are buying plasmas and LCDs dont know what they're missing. Projectors give you better bang for your buck. I know, I have one. I could get
1. Protable!
2. Adjustable picture size
3. Doesnt take any room up
4. Movie theater feel
5. Pay less and get a bigger picture
Projectors are the way of the future
you may not pay $200/bulb for your car, but apparently some jokers pay $1500-2000/headlight for their cars. E.g., the Xenon headlights in Nissan Maximas
i too have been looking but i want 3d projection too
anyone?
back in the day we didnt have no old school
I just check the warranty clock on my 32" TV. It was first used on 1/3/99 and it has been on for 10095 hours. That includes all the time i left it on overnight when I was sleeping. That is 2k hours per year.
Well, on the other hand, if the bulb lasts a somewhat reasonable length of time, then when it dies you shouldn't buy a replacement bulb--you should just buy another new projector.
I've seen the same phenomenon with printers and print cartridges. A friend of mine recently decided that instead of spending $35 to $40 on a replacement print cartridge, he simply bought a brand new printer/scanner/fax machine for $40. Granted, this technique fills up our landfills with not-so-obsolete printers, but if the ink cartridge manufacturers insist on such high margins....
Biggest drawback is running cost - the bulb alone costs $0.5-1 per hour. Hard to say what else wears out. I found pictures from LCD based projectors to hazy to enjoy. DLP pictures are better but if you have a powerful soumd system it can upset the little mirrors on the DLP and you see 'waves' as the sub booms. All this is not ideal yet. I'd like to see laser scanning projectors before I make my move.
It is a white buiding material that happens to have a matte side that is very good for a projection screen. A 4x8 sheet cost me about $13 at Menards. You can order 5x10 sheets direct from them in Indiana.
The beauty of it is that it is cheap, and much more resilient to things like little fingers and crayons than something like a Stewart or DaLite screen. And if it does get destroyed, buy another one!
I'd think twice about investing beaucoup bucks on a screen if you're going for a low-end projector. I paid just under $1,100 for my Sanyo PLV-Z1 (very happy with it, outstanding picture), but I couldn't justify blowing potentially *way* more on a pro screen. As others have mentioned, AVS Forum is THE site, and its Screens forum is full of cheap (as in inexpensive) do-it-yourself ideas. I created an essentially pro-quality screen by spending about $60 on a 4-by-8 sheet of Formica, some Kilz primer, and a pint of Behr Ultra White paint (all available at your local Home Depot). I used my old Wagner power painter to get nice, even coverage (it's tough to get rollers to cooperate), and finished the job with some cheap wood molding spray-painted black for a screen frame (a key; it really makes the colors jump out). I got some Velcro strips to secure the whole shebang to the wall, and presto -- great screen for a fraction of what the pros cost. I'm the anti-Norm Abram as a handyman, so if I can do it, anyone can.
Use your retinas, peep outside.
$3000 will take you from NY to China (and back) or on the roadtrip of your lifetime.
I have been using a video projector as my main TV for about 9 years now. It is a Sharp LCD home theatre projetor. It was a great projector in it's day but, somewhat lacking by modern standards.
Here is what stands out though: I have used this projetor nearly every day for 9 years and am still on the original bulb! The bulb is only rated for 3000 hours, but I easily have double that amount on it.
The secret to long bulb life is to minimize power cycles and provide a large amount of air flow through the unit. When I turn the projector on in the evening, I leave it turned on continuously, even if I'm going to leave for a few hours and come back later to watch TV.
The other important thing to look for in a projector is good air flow. There are so many projectors out there today with tiny or non-extistant fans. The manufactures design them like this in order to make them quiet. But my experiecne has been it's the quiet low-flow units that have bulbs that fail frequently, while the noisy high air flow units seem to last forever.
At my workplace we have a large number of InFocus units that are fairly quiet with nearly non-existant air flow thru them. These things can't seem to last more than 1000 hours without blowing out a bulb.
However, we also have a Mitsubishi LCD projector that runs continuously and has several very large fans in it producing an insane amount of air flow. It has been running for over a year without a power cycle on the same bulb! That's over 8000 hours, yet the thing is only rated for 1500 hours.
I bought the nec lt240k after reading the review at projector central http://www.projectorcentral.com/nec_lt240k.htm I am very pleased with this unit. It costs ~$2000, about twice the price of the entry level HT projectors that have been mentioned alot in this discussion.. but it's twice the projector in many ways. It has 2000 lumens, which makes a big difference compared to the ~1000 lumen projectors. I project onto a flat white wall and the 12ft wide by 9ft tall image is decent during daylight and outstanding at night. I'm sure a real screen would improve daylight viewing. People are very impressed by both the size of the image and the quality of the picture. You will need about 17 feet of distance from the screen to achieve a screen this size, but thanks to the many keystone and aspect correcting options you can put the projector very far off center. I actually have it mounted in the ceiling of a hallway thats almost 5 feet off center of my screen and it works great. Its pretty quiet in normal mode, but it also has an econo mode which at night is still great viewing and VERY quiet. I'm assuming that it also saves on bulb life. If you want a larger and brighter screen than the $1000 units, consider this one. You do get alot more for the extra cash, and at $2k its still cheaper than a decent "little" 50 something inch rear projection tv. You don't mind the fact that it only weighs about 7 lbs when you have to move either!
-Lod
Radiant energy from a point source (like, say, a light bulb) decreases as the square of the distance because the same amount of energy radiates equally in all directions, so the energy is spread over a shell of radius 4*pi*r^2.
On the other hand, the energy of a projector is spread out over the size of the projection area, so the energy is inversely proportional to the edge size squared. So you could project onto a sheet one foot in front of the projector, but if you projected an enormous rectangle, the intensity would necessarily be very low.
However, if the projector emits light over a fixed range of angles (the aperture is fixed), then the edge distance is proportional to the radius, so you are right: E is proportional to 1/r^2.
Always go to www.avsforum.com for projector information. You'll find that a lot of eBay crts for real cheap are parts pj's (the tubes are shot and you'll spend $1500 on "rebuilt" ones).
You should first research what will suit your needs more, crt or digital. You will also want to look at your pricepoint.
I have an infocus x1 (digital - dlp - svga) and I love it. I got it for $875 and it's my first pj. There are lots that are better and there are lots that are more expensive.
If you're looking digital, then you'll want to decide on lcd vs dlp. Dlp yields deeper blacks, but usually at an expense of resolution or lumens. Lcd yields higher resolution and brightness, but usually at an expense of black levels.
Crt is probably the king of picture quality, but they are large, heavy, and as any old analog components, require maintenance (usually some solder here and some resistors there). They can be a great investment, if you're handy in that area, want the deepest blacks, and the longest use.
Crt's are meant to run for decades, which is why many bought will be 10+ years old. Their tubes average like 10000 hours (red can usually run 20000), but they are like $500 each to replace. Digitals are basically disposable. They are meant to be used and replaced in a couple of years. I think you will normally replace the unit before the second bulb (which normally only rate for 3000 hours). On the other hand, digital is great for people that don't know about electronics or don't care. They are plug and play and very easy to set up. My x1 is moved around weekly, so it's definately a plus.
JJ
It could still be a good idea though, if you factor in the cost of the new bulb and the price is still significantly less then what it would be new.
This varies upon unit and blah blah, but that's what I would do.
You can't really rely on the word of an ebay seller, so you gotta take some precautions is all. Go look at R/C nitro engines. Every single one on ebay has "Less then one gallon" through them. Ya, right.. so you gotta factor in the price for a new piston/sleeve.
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
Yeah, could be ground loop.
I diagnosed a friend's system that was experiencing similar issues. It turns out that it was a ground loop between the coax on the cable TV line and his computer that was causing it. He had the CATV box and computer both hooked into a AV receiver. It took a while to isolate the problem since it at first appeared that only the computer was grounded (via a 3-prong outlet). Experimentation revealed the CATV coax as the other ground source, which of course was grounded in a distant location. A home-made 75ohm unun was made to decouple the line. After that, things worked as expected. Another option would be to isolate the computer from ground by cutting the 3rd prong off the power connector, but that's not the best approach.
Buy the most recent issue of Popular Science. They've got a great guide in their How 2.0 section on building your own home theatre system with a projector-type system this month. Try there for some inspiration. :)
This sig is certified free of self-referential humour!
Lots of DIY projects here, with many pics, and french text.
I just returned home from the NAB show in Vegas. Sanyo was showing the "HD10" This is a full 1920x1080 resolution projector using 3 panels for the color primaries and 4 lamps for like 5000 ANSI lumen light output! This thing is a beast weighing 85 lbs at a cost of about $1000/lb! They suggested it will be available for purchase in about 60 days. (Eiki had the same projector on display but branded with their name and claimed immediate availability.) They were projecting a huge image and it looked absolutely unbelievable! Obviously I want one but I'm going to have to wait until they get a little more affordable ;)
Sanyo had a number of other projectors on display including the rather affordable Z2, a 1280x720 projector for about $2000.
Slide projector lamps may be tungsten halogen, but a decent video projector is going to have a metal halide lamp. There's no way you're going to get that many lumens out of such a small space otherwise.
aQazaQa
That link is saying what I was trying to - that "Screen Door" is about seeing the space between the pixels, not the pixels themselves... not the same as seeing the squares that make up the image.
DLP has pretty much eliminated that as a problem, whereas with LCD you can make it out quite a bit easier and sometimes from normal viewing distances.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
... just get a momitsu or kiss player or anything else with a Sigma EM85xx chip driving it. There are usually firmwares floating around, unlocking and removing the macrovision shit. This also enables the pre-scaled high-res HD and SVGA output resolutions for DVD content on those players.
Fuck hollywood. Fuck macrovision. Fuck region codes.
Prolly too many comments out there for this to be read/modded:
Doeas anyone know of a hack to get lightguns to work with an overhead projector?
I had an idea but I suck at analog electronics:
Point an analog camera at the screen, have it sync off the actual video signal (50/60 HZ x 525 lines or whatever the video standard is in your country).
Equip guns with a laser pointer, the dot on the screen would be way bright compared to the projected image, pipe the signal back into the lightgun input...
Anyone know if this could/could not work??
Not confused enough? http://translate.google.com/translate?u=www.slashdot.jp&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=ja&tl=en
I found a NEC MT1200 projector (800x600 native, 800 lumens) that was in "good physical condition, powers on, no lamp" -- so couldn't be tested further. $150 on eBay from some asset liquidator..
:)
I took the risk, and luckily found a bulb for $150 a week later. The lens was smudged a bit--easily cleaned. When I tested the unit there were a few dead pixels, not really noticable with motion on the screen.
All in all, I think I did pretty well. Have it hooked up to my XBox (HDTV@480p->VGA converter) running XBox Media Center, streaming from a file server in a different room. $500 and the video portion of my home theater is taken care of (sans big HDDs that I store my DVDs on)..
I had a $6000 3000 lumens Mitsubishi XU300 a few years ago--this isn't *that* much worse. Lower native res and the curtains need to be drawn, but who watches movies in broad daylight anyway? And 800x600 is plenty for a standard DVD (720x480)..
Now just to get that second XBox up and backfed through the coax running in the walls already, and I'll have access to my library from every TV in the house..
jvc sx21 is the best projector. its all about the resoluton 1400x1050 for the price cant be beat. colors are awesome too.
For how long can I keep the projector powered on and working?
AFAIK, its lamp will be affected.
Best regards, HimaTech
The X1 has been usurped by the new Optoma ThemeScene H30. Less rainbows, quieter, greater contrast ratio and produces a very film-like image. Cost is around 1000 (GB Pounds) - projector central lists a price of $1400 (US).
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?thre adid=351894
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?thre adid=127171&perpage=15&pagenumber=1
http://www.projectorcentral.com/part_opinions.cfm? part_id=2235
http://www.themescene.tv/Newsite/H30-Main.htm
From MikeD on avforums.com:
Having completed the fabrication of a steel mount the H30 was duly screwed to the ceiling and a good quality composite and a SCART/VGA cable were connected. Incidentally while on the subject of ceiling mounting, the 3mm mounting holes in the base of the H30 look pretty inadequate for supporting 1100 of projector from the ceiling. I took the precaution of drilling a hole in the ceiling mount base plate to accommodate an additional 6mm bolt; this was then screwed into the tripod-mounting hole for additional security.
Anyway having lined it all up some friends came around to help set it up and see how it performed. One is the proud owner of an AE300 and the other a high end Sony CRT projector that he has installed in a dedicated room with matt black walls to reduce light reflection.
Having quickly tweaked the basic settings on the H30 we darkened the room and put on The Scorpion King, we sat there in utter amazement; the picture quality was truly awesome.
We then put on Armageddon, as we tend to use it, as a reference disc as it contains a good variety of differing scenes, again the picture quality was amazing.
The H30 uses the Pixelworks deinterlacing and scaling chip as opposed to the popular and unquestionably competent Faroudja DCDI, this was my only reservation about the projector prior to purchasing.
Not anymore, the picture was very sharp and had an extremely pleasing film like quality with few artefacts even in fast moving scenes and panned shots.
The black level was incredible far better than anything I have ever seen before south of CRT. I had the masking lens attached which I think I read somewhere increases the contrast ratio to around 2500:1 by reducing unwanted light. Projectors cant project black, correct me if Im wrong but my belief is that to get true black the pixels in the chip are in effect switched off and black is in fact displayed as absence of light. This is one of the reasons why you tend to get a more pleasing picture the darker the room. Most projectors are unable to switch the pixels off completely but it is considered that DLP technology is slightly better at it than LCD particularly on budget home theatre projectors such as the H30. We also found that detail in dark scenes was outstanding, certainly better than we had expected.
Screen door was good and fan noise acceptable, light spill was also not too bad with just a small amount on the ceiling about a foot or so in front of the projector. None of us noticed significant rainbow even though we did try very hard to see them particularly on high contrast fast moving scenes.
We only used eco-mode, as the brightness was more than adequate for a light controlled room and less light tends to give better blacks and contrast anyway, eco mode also has the added benefit of bumping the expected lamp life up from 2000 to 3000 hours. I was actually quite surprised by the projectors brightness, we eventually put this down to the H30s six segment (RGBRGB) colour wheel and the fact
Check http://www.projectorcentral.com/ for all your project needs. The BenQ PB 6100 is an amazing projector, I have both in my home the X1 and PB6100 and PB6100 beats it hands down in terms of picture quality and color depth. At 120 inches, DVD's look beautiful at 480P. Absolutely amazing buy. They use a 4 way color wheel as opposed to the usual DLP 3 way wheel (BenQ's own patented tech). It's good stuff... cheers...
I got an NEC LT240K projector for my living room about 8 months ago. 100" diagonal, DLP chip so there's no "screen door" effect, 2 VGA inputs and 1 svideo input (the vga inputs double as composite DVD/HDTV with a VGA>Composite adapter)
I couldn't be happier. this projector has a crisp picture, contrast ratio of 2000:1, and I always use the economy mode, which provides 3000 hours usage at 1600 lumens and it runs at a whisper. It is still a great picture during the day if I close the curtains.
Its great for throwing parties (visualization plugins on the screen are awesome) I have a 6.1 home theater hooked up to it, as well as digital satellite, dvd with composite out, and my entertainment system computer (actually I'm typing on it right now).
Anyways for the $2600 I spent on it ($2300 for the projector from mwave, $200 for the cieling mount and $100 for the screen [I live in Seoul so screens run quite a bit cheaper here])
I did a LOT of research before I bought it and it is one of the best purchases I've ever made. Screw PDP's. Projectors ROCK!
If I haven't convinced you yet, here is a review at Projector Central.
During the project I was active in the video forum of http://www.diyaudio.com/ , where alot of good thoughts were emerging on the subject of custom projectors - not purely OHP+LCD panel type setups. The five vital factors required to build a decent projector were found to be:
- Good heat dissipation
- A long life, decent color temperature lighting setup
- A well designed reflector
- Decent optics, aligned according to the basic rules of projection (using such items as fresnel lenses, PCX lenses, doublets etc.)
- The highest res. transparent LCD you can afford.
My setup was a custom built upstanding unit, using an OHP Data panel (see-through LCD) and a rather large PCX lense which I am very proud of - it came out of an American tank targeting system and weighs a couple of kilos - it can throw the light from one blue LED about 20 meters!!. I used a 400W Metal Halide bulb with suitable ballast - very bright white light! and fashioned an ellipsoid reflector out of mirrored alu sheeting.
The results? See them at the following link which includes pictures from the very beginning of my tinkering:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291451499
The projected image was huge and bright, but the optics system required alot of tweaking. Heat was also a major problem and I melted a few fresnel lenses in the testing stages. Due to university starting up again, I copped out and bought an OHP for some instant gratification. Results of that system can also be seen at the above link.
There's lots of theory behind building a projector, but at the end of the day, you can build one easily if you do your research and can handle very basic geometry. There are many other types of custom build units, including ones using stripped down LCD monitors, fluorescent lighting, very small LCDs etc etc. DIYAudio is a great resource with lots of enthusiastic people posting their thoughts and results.
Like others have said AVS Forum is the best place to research. We recently finished our basement and I decided on the InFocus 5700. It's not true HD resolution, but HD does look awesome on it. I also looked at the Infocus 4800 (similar to the X1), but I saw rainbows with it's slower color wheel.
The most important thing is to see each of the major technologies (DLP, LCD, LCOS, CRT) to decide if the tradeoffs of each will be a problem for you.
See my Home Theater
As a recently laid-off A/V repair tech/installer/programmer ("why yes, I used to work for Mighty Colossal Shitheads, Inc."), my advice: stay the hell away from all of them! Projectors are great until they break or you experience a lamp failure. Unless you really have a space that needs filled, simply avoid them.
If you absolutely must have one, of all the brands we used to service Sharp's seemed to have the best record of least repair. {Note: I have no relationship to Sharp whatsoever.} All of the ones that get big press -- InFocus/Proxima, Epson, Sony, etc. -- were in for repairs on a very steady basis. Make sure the unit will cover all of the signals (and the ranges) you might want to throw at it. Find out the details on service, should you ever need it (you will). Over all, your best bet may be to find a local dealer of several different brands and take a few of your own test DVDs/tapes and ask to see a demo.
Also if you get one, find out how old the model is (gives you a rough idea how soon it will go out of production &/or whether the firmware has been tested) and for "BOB"s sake!, find out how much a replacement lamp is *BEFORE* you buy anything. In the course of less than 6 months the entire industry went from a range of lamp replacement times to a flat "90 days from purchase"...no matter how long it was sitting on your shelf. Nothing gets people more pissed off than to discover their brand new projector has a 3-year repair warranty, but the lamp is only covered for the first 3 months...and on day 91 when it goes out, they've got to pony up anywhere from $300 to ~$2k (very high end, true theater units) for a new light bulb.
If you opt to avoid a projector, *DO NOT* get some piece of crap plasma as a substitute. The dirty little secret the industry doesn't point out is that you're buying the TV version of a fluorescent bulb...and once the noble gas inside begins to lose cohesion, you've got yourself one nice big picture frame. The fact that most are rated for less than 20,000 hours (with a greater than 50% failure rate after 2 years) doesn't really make me feel any better.
I've had the same 32" CRT TV for nearly 8 years now...perfect picture, perfect sound, a bitch to lug around when you move.
Kingstrum
For a different opinion on this, see http://www.projectorcentral.com/formats.htm, and in particular the section called "Why get a 4:3 projector with a 4:3 screen?". What I find particularly interesting is this quote:
Personally, I prefer a big 4:3 screen. Here's why. I want to watch widescreen movies in their widescreen glory, no doubt about it. So I have a 4:3 screen that is wide enough to give me the 16:9 display I want, which in my theater is 8 feet wide.