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China's New Craze: E-bikes
lawrencekhoo writes "I was in Shanghai recently, and found to my surprise that bicycle crazy China is now electric bicycle crazy. Electric bikes were everywhere, and outnumbered normal bikes on the road. You could even buy them in the department stores.
Basic
models sell for about 1200 Yuan (about US$150), and more
elaborate
scooter-like
models
for up to 5000 Yuan. Apparently, this craze has been
building up for a few years.
Something like it is even
happening in parts of the US.
According to one user, electric bikes are popular because they're cheap, and can take you all around town on one charge. Who would have guessed that China would lead the way in green transportation?"
Nice language at the site.
Breakes:
Yes! Hit them hard enough and they just might.
Those look really good, especially for older people with reduced mobility (which seems to be one of their major target demographics). But what I would love to be able to buy would be some kind of hybrid model. The motor would reduce the exertion required, while being able to pedal would extend the distance you could go on a single charge.
I didn't see anything in the posted links that said whether they were electric-only bikes or hybrid, but it does look like you can already get electric hybrid bikes: Electric Bikes Northwest. I would happily buy something like that over a car, assuming I could afford either, which isn't the case anyway...
Of course China is paving the way for green transportation. Having enormous populations in congested cities with low average incomes is a great motivation to produce cheap transportation.
in China it's RED transportation.
What's with the name of e-bikes? They are bloody mopeds that run on battery.
:)
Or call them scooters that run on battery. The name e-bikes sounds cheesy, and more like a marketing ploy.
Although, that's quite surprising, since one of the site mentions that one of the companies making it (Shenzhen Light Ind. Products I/E Co.) is owned by the govt.
Usually it's the corporations that have the habit of coming up with and using buzzwords, surprised to see a govt. owned company using it
Aren't they supposed to be *cough* beyond such things *cough* ?
Generating electricity is not green. Once again this is a demonstration of euphoric environmentalists not knowing how things work.
Who would have guessed that China would lead the way in green transportation?"
Trading in pedal bikes for motor bikes, regardless of power source is not as green as a regular pedal bike. Also, since this is "green" I guess, I would imagine countries like China would adopt them first as there isn't any room for American style SUV's, right?
"If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer
Unlike most places in the US, many Chinese cities do not have streets made for large amounts of vehicular traffic, so bicycles have become important to them. Then, when you consider the cost of gasoline compared to the average Chinese person's salary, what's so bad about electric bikes? Besides, in a country of a billion people, if only 10% of people use this technology, that's more electric bikes sold than all the cars sold in the US. (Plus no required age to use one).
Green transportation? These things definitly aren't designed to replace cars. Look at the min/max speeds! And the comparison was made with bikes, not cars.
What's greener, a bike powered by human-power, or a bike powered by electricity (which has to come from somewhere....fossil fuels, anyone)? I vote human-powered bikes.
--
http://nemilar.net - Not your grandmother's soup kitchen
When I first came across this technology years ago I wondered why it didn't seem to very popular. I soon realized that here in America nobody would ride one of these because of the social implications. Your either such a lazy fat bastard that you need a motor on your bike or your too weak and pathetic to just ride a normal bike or your a broke looser who can't afford a motorcycle or car. Who is gonna ride even a good electric bike (which even now there are few of) with these sort of implications attached.
vampirical
How is this green? That electricity doesn generate its self.
"Comedy's a dead art form. Now tragedy, that's funny."
Unless most of the electricity comes from non-polluting sources, recharging electric bikes is going to produce more pollution than exhaling some carbon dioxide and using muscle power.
Yes, finally China is making strides towards more pollutive transportation.
After many long years of primarily using bikes, they are now charging these bikes with power from coal power plants. Once a billion or so people have these, our green goals will finally be completed and mother nature will be thoroughly defeated.
Who would have guessed that China would lead the way in green transportation?
Not surprising. Now I would have definitely been surprised if the United States were the one leading the way in green transportation.
As electric bicycles aren't exactly what China needs at the moment, seeing as they need, you know, electricity. Most of China's electrical power is generated from coal in factories which have pollution controls making the U.S. coal factories look impeccably clean. Along with this the Chinese are becoming just as car crazy as us wacky Americans only once again to fuel their 8% annual economic increase they have instituted almost zero pollution control laws. Those shiny cars they drive may look modern but most are 20+ years behind when it comes to emissions; just take a look at the haze over Shanghai, it's like Los Angeles circa 1990. At their current rate China will overtake the U.S. as the World's leading emitter of greenhouse gases in a relatively short amount of time.
So like I said, not exactly leading the green revolution.
It's funny to see how this craze is taking off in China only now... since these things have existed for ages. Also interesting to think about why these bikes haven't become popular in the Netherlands, another bike-loving country.Sparta has been selling powered bikes for years, with either an electric motor or a small gasoline-powered one.
Then again, I can understand why they aren't popular here. Firstly, there's the price tag of EUR 1750 (Look on the site under "Collectie / Electrische fiets"). Secondly... crime statistics teach us that every bike owner has his bike stolen, on average, once a year in this country. And this bike would make a particularly juicy target for thieves.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Funny, people here understand that the electric bikes in china are not really a green technology ... the electricity has to come from somewhere ...
but so few understand that the same problems exist, and may be even worse for the Hydrogen Economy.
George Bush + Linux = "I will not let information get in the way of the fight against Windows"
Electric vehicles are all fine and good, except that until we have a good clean source of electricity, a proliferation of electric-powered vehicles will actually increase air polution. For example, in Alberta Canada, a study was done to determine the effects on the environment of government-mandated electric cars. The study found the air pollution would increase dramatically as all of Alberta's power plants (well most of them) are coal-fire plants.
This is not to say it's not a good thing but it's certainly not a panacea at this point. Something else to remember is that internal combustion does not necessarily equal bad since practically all energy generation involves combustion in some form or another. For example, burning natural oils (vegatable oil) is environmentally neutral, since there is no net-increase of carbon in the atmosphere (which means no green-house effects).
The problem is that most alternative fuels such as hydrogen and methane come from burning fossil fuels. Although they burn clean in our engines, they've already caused pollution before we even get them in our cars! This fact combined with the fact that alternative fuels simply don't have as many joules of energy per unit as conventional fuels makes alternative fuels less attractive.
If we can get a cleans supply of electricity (from the sun, for example), then all of my points become moot.
i don't think the electric bike is driven by a desire for green transportation, but it just happens that the particular form of transportation is desireable compared to a standard bicycle, and considerably cheaper than alternative forms of "private" transportation in that country. The average motor vehicle is still considerably expensive for the average chinese urbanite. (let's not even consider the rural economy here). Besides, as a person pointed out in an earlier post, the electric bikes are only as effective as the power plants that produce the electricity. In china, a large portion of air pollution is still sourced from coal burning used for power production. china needs to improve the efficency and conditions of it's plants before the use of electricity is considered green.
When I visited Guangzhou (Canton), these bikes where everywhere. There where also alot of crazy drivers.
I remember our tour bus almost hitting a couple of bike drivers because they cut off the bus.
Not that I blame the bike drivers, because nobody really follows western traffic conventions there. Its pretty much, drive on any side of the street you want and create your own lanes.
Outside a buddhist temple, I also noticed a newspaper posted on the wall with the picture of a bike driver on the pavement in a pool of blood.
Well with 1.2 billion people you can't get enough oil for all that and besides the US has basically staked out the middle east as it's own supply recently so...
But they do have 3 Gorges Dam wich produce enough electricity for 5% of all world power needs, so electricity they have, oil they do not.
Sounds like a good plan for them.
The US has too much stake in the oil industry, it's all bogged down in it. They'll be driving gas cars until the last drop is gone.
The 21st century is going to see the world power center moving east to some kind of India-Japan-China axis with Korea and Vietnam as secondaries.
Has anyone else seen a hug increase in gas powered scooters around their neighborhood? They seem to be getting more popular than skateboards for kids now.
:)
I'm a little worried about kids without licenses driving motorized vehicles around on sidewalks, though they could be safer than those segways that would just tip over if the battery ran out going up a hill
A friend of mine who works for a city transportation planning organization and I were discussing tha they are scrambling to draw up some regulation on these things.
Find Boba / bubble tea in your zipcode.
When I saw the article link I was just imagining something like a portable battery charger; I am actually a little underwhelmed at what it turned out to be. I ride my bike to get places, but the exercise aspect of it is important to me; it would be cool if I could plug my iPod into the bike while i'm riding, though. What other devices would be useful on a bike with a renewable power supply?
I regularly report MSN spam to the Hotmail admins.
These things are replacing regular bicycles, not cars. In a sense, they're like the equivalent of an SUV for folks who can't own a car for whatever reason.
A regular bicycle is greener than an electric bike in almost every way, from amount of materials consumed to the pollution involved in generating the electricity to power that bike to the horrible chemicals in the bike's batteries.
Where did everyone start getting this idea that anything that is electric is automatically the greenest alternative? Next I'm going to be hearing that it's better for the environment to paint your windows black because electric lighting is more environmentally sound than natural light.
is ranked in 2003:
1. Japan
2. China
3. Europe
Gross rank is:
1. China (incl. Taiwan?) (500,000)
2. Japan (200,000)
3. Europe (10,000 and over)
according to this US dealer.
That electricity has to come from someplace... in China, that means mostly oil and coal powerplants with none of the pollution controls found in the west, or hydroelectric dams, like Three Gorges, that displace and literally enslave hundreds of thousands of people while destroying archaeological and historical sites. The most lethal dam disaster in history was a Chinese hydoelectric project gone wrong.
Electric vehicles by themselves are not enviornmentally friendly. In conjunction with strict pollution controls and smart energy infrastructures, they can be. That's not the case in China. They'd be better off with a reliable fleet of diesel busses and subways.
SoupIsGood Food
Would you believe the government have classified them as motor vehicles, which they are, but FFS!
You need a license and it has to have type approval and be taxed and have a registration plate which means you need insurance etc. None of which are going to happen.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
"Who would have guessed that China would lead the way in green transportation?"
why is this a form of green transportation? the power for these things has to come from somewhere. and every form of energy production has some form of byproduct which we commonly know as pollution.
what makes one thing more "green" than another has got to be either efficiency or renewablility (which is really just how efficiently we can convert solar power into a usable form energy) I'm leaving out nuclear because I don't know anyone (other than myself) that considers nuclear power 'green', even though everything is really nuclear power at heart. And I bet these things don't have nuclear reactors on them.
Since this is an electric motor, I assume by green we must be talking about power efficiency, not power production - unless you put petals on the bike and use the motor as a generator. I don't see anyone paying to do that... oh yeah, the people at the gym... but again, not the discussion here. Are we suggesting that these things have some sort of super efficient motor? Typically, the most efficient thing to do is produce the power as close to where it will be used as possible, as there will be loss in transmission, since this is evidently not what is going on here and I don't see anything about a new super motor: can someone explain... What makes these a green transportation????
"Karma can only be portioned out by the cosmos." -- Homer Simpson
>>Who would have guessed that China would lead the way in green transportation?
Naaah, it's not green transportation, as echoed by previous posters.
If these were replacing cars, yes, I would agree. However, cyclists use legs to power themselves. It also requires energy to make batteries, which also need charging somehow.
Battery production is notoriously chemical intensive and I should think Chinese industry isn't so tight on it's environmental controls.
In addition, instead of cycling to work, they're being electric-scootered to work. Sounds like a loss of exercise here too. It will take a severe toll on the health of the nation too, I should think. Give it time... watch them get fatter, like the rest of the western world...
M.
It is because they look cool! :D
Reminds me of an old episode of Dr. Katz, Professional Therapist.
Option-Shift-K.
When I run my window AC unit in the summer, my electricity bill goes up 3 times what I pay in the winter. If that electric bike has to be charged 6 or 8 hours for a 25 mile trip, what kind of cost per mile are we getting? Granted, gas just hit $2.25 a gallon where I live, but my car gets 25 miles to the gallon. Plus, I can drive my car in the rain.
What we need are better cheaper cars, perhaps cars that have solar panels to add energy so a car is not 100% gas driven. And maybe a cheaper source of power, as it seems those who control oil production can put us over the barrel.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
According to one user, electric bikes are popular because they're cheap, and can take you all around town on one charge. Who would have guessed that China would lead the way in green transportation?"
Power from the outlet requires a generator or plant of some kind, as well. If theym like the US, generate much of their electricity from fossil fuels, all they've done is move their pollution problem to a different sector.
Mirror
All they would have to do is have some comercials showing how smart the owner is for not throwing away his money on gas, maybe a scene of some hot chick driving around, and it will become acceptable. They can sell "acceptible" just like they market clothing fads, car styles, hair styles, anything. I remember when muscle cars were cool, like my old 1984 Mustang GT with a 5.0 liter engine. Just yesterday some asian kid with mommys honda came driving past me, thinking he was the stud of america. It is all marketing.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
1 well maintained power plant that can charge say, 10,000 vehicles, has a much higher efficiency and lower pollution than if those 10,000 vehicles were running their own gas motors.
-
If you need to charge a battery it isn't green. One of china's many polluting power plants is really powering your bike.
Photos.
It's hardly green transportation, not when the source of the electricity is coal and gas burning plants. All you've done is relocate the pollution out to wherever the power plant is.
It seems as if many self-styled environmentalists (who wear their badge in the form of an all-electric vehicle) are the personification of shortsighted NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard). They either don't understand that electricity comes from SOMEWHERE, or they don't care about the pollution, only that it doesn't happen where they live.
heh, oh well
"If I'm gonna get my balls blown off for a word, my word is poontang."
-- "Someone's gotta go back for a shit-load of dimes."
Giant LaFree. Does exactly what you want.
I test rode one, and personally, I don't like them, except if you really need it.
They're heavy (80lbs), slow, expensive.
I can go farther, faster on a regular bike.
Due to the popularity of e-bikes, Apple has announced their new bike mounted laptop, the iBike.
"Anyone who quotes me in their
And this year's Universala Kongreso will be held in Beijing, so green is still appropriate...
Shanghai is (as of Dec 2003) restricting bikes on its major streets.
"Bicycles have gone from carrying more than 70 percent of travelers in Shanghai as recently as 1990 to from 15 to 17 percent now, according to the Shanghai Urban Planning Bureau."
Upward mobility indeed.
you are forced to stand up on it.
I got a Thinkmobility several years ago. With Gas hitting near $2/gallon in my area its looking to be a decent investment.
However thinkmobility has tanked their bike lines after Ford went back to regular electic vehicles.
Me, I think they took the incentive money for low emmission vehicles and ran.
Lee Iococca also started an entire new company for his bikes.
I think the biggest hold backs to Western adoption of such vehicles
1) Former use of SLA batteries; NextGen LION has just arrived
2) Lack of adequate storage -- dont get a folder buy/rent a shed! Typical bike sheds (home & work) are needed as electric bikes are too big an investment to have someone huck it in the back of the F350 truck. They are much lighter than vespas but still heavy enough to deter most thieves given most come with a key ignition
3) Lack of common components; Battery sets and chargers need to somehow standardize
I can get to work, in an hour, 15mi, with a fully loaded briefcase and work clothes at a mild peddle speed without breaking a sweat. My spandex wearing 21 speeder co-workers have no such luggage ability and must undergo daily scrotum scrunch.
I have to stay off highway and take a bit longer course as my top burst speed is 18mph which kills the battery. I live in a very hilly area and use them to my advantage as I can use the peddle assist on the light hills and use big hills and gravity elsewhere.
The best part is the company is unknowninly paying to charge my battery as it charges under my desk!
Who needs cubical lights?
i once heard Ralph Nader &co compared to watermellons: "sure they are green on the outside, but on the inside, they're about as RED as you get."
Being China, this is contextual.
There is absolutely no evidence of any connection between human activity and "global warming".
Haha, and Burger gobbling Americans wonder why they are falling behind in science!
Oh yes, global warming is a myth just like evolution!
Bwahaha, oh well, most Americans are too ill informed to realize their rate of publication in scientific journals as well as patent applications and grants are shriveling fast in the face of a modernizing asia and europe that spends money research and schools instead of bombs and guns!
Of course Russia wants to oppose Kyoto they have a huge stake in the oil industry considering they have huuuge oil reserves! I mean it's fine to say you oppose clean fuels because the richest people in your country are making a killing off oil. But to say you oppose cleanr fuels and then make foolish psuedo-scientific statements is just lame. Just admit it, You like to see Dick Cheney be very rich and you like to pay lots of money at the pump for your gas. Just admit that and it's fine. But you just make America look pathetic when you actually try to deny global warming, hahah.
That's a propaganda slogan that I've read in Beijing, but there's an oz. of truth in that. Capitalism tend to be eco-unfriendly.
This tells me that the loading weight should be less than 75 kg. No problem for the average asian man/woman, but for a lot europeans/americans this will be a huge problem. And, more weight will decrease the action radius of 40-50 km.
market for it.
Electrically assisted bicycles have existed in Japan for quite some time now (since the mid to late 90's).
Here's Panasonic's and one from Yamaha Motors. The reason why it's not fully EV (and hence called a hybrid) is to make it so there's no need for a license as it is still mainly human powered (motor assisted, especially when going up hills and such).
As innumerable posters have noted, the electricity for these things has to come from somewhere. A lot of those same posters then take the position that human-powered cycles are the true "green" transportation. If by "green" one means "nonpolluting and not consuming resources," then no, they're not. The extra energy the human expends has to come from food, which has to be grown, harvested, transported, stocked, and sold, all of which takes energy. The waste produced by the rider has to be transported and disposed of, which takes energy and may add to pollution itself, depending on how finicky the rules for pollution are in the rider's community. Additionally, the rider is producing increased levels of carbon dioxide, which contributes to global warming according to some people. Energy has to be expended in the making and distribution of the bicycle. Face it, one's mere existence is a drain on the resources of the universe, so if you want to be completely "green," killing yourself is about the only way to spare nature your wear and tear (and even then your decomposing corpse will contribute your final donation of pollutants to the planet). Personally, I'm going to impose myself on nature, and damn the consequences.
How are these bikes "green" when they are being charged by hydro plants that are diverting entire rivers and changing ecosystems. The energy source has to come from somewhere, and just because it is electric does not make it any better for nature. Old-fashioned bikes are the ones that are truly "green." (Except of course for the damage done when making the bike, advertising the bike and so on.) While electric bikes may convert some people from using their car (not me by the way because I live in a rural area) they will also cause more energy to be used if kids who normally would have had "regular" bikes start using them.
Who would have guessed that China would lead the way in green transportation?
Yes. That's brilliant. Who would have guessed? It's absolutely miraculous! The 500 million human-powered bicycles estimated to be in use in China can now be replaced by those that require electricity and FINALLY China's position as leader in green transportation will be secure.
Why bother to learn about the world when you can make it up on Slashdot?
Uhh, until we build a lot more nuclear, solar and wind power plants, electricity in most areas of the world (including the US) still comes overwhelmingly from fossil fuels.
US DOE stats show that nearly 80% of electricity in the US comes from fossils fuels. And because electical lines loose power do to resistance, and batteries are not perfect, electically driven bike are not very efficient.
The bike is polluting, maybe hundreds of miles away, but it is still polluting.
Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein
This isn't really a green technology. Green would be just using bikes. It takes fossil fuels to power those bikes, and even if you used solar/wind/water/geothermal/hamster power, you are still increasing the overall raw/hazardous materials requirements versus people-powered bikes. China used to be cool. Now they suck.
It would probably cost 2-3k to buy one in the states. Its funny how things in other parts of the word are cheaper but cost more here... The reason is because over there they can't pay more so things are priced cheaper. Over here we'll buy it if its cool so they'll put a huge markup on it.
"Thanks to the remote control I have the attention span of a gerbil."
Who would have guessed that China would lead the way in green transportation?
Electricity is not generated by magical pixies. In China, it's primarily generated by Coal-fired generating plants with the kind of pollution controls that only Dick Cheney would love. Mmmm, smell the "clean" power!
People who think e-bikes are good for the environment probably also think the same of hydrogen power cells. Trouble is, do you know what the source of your generating plant is?
Wanna save the environment? Don't drive an SUV when you could drive a car. Don't drive a car when you can ride a bus/train. Ride a bike or walk to work.
Here come da fudge!
Don't these little motorcycles we have now get 60+mpg? And they are tuned for speed/acceleration, not fuel economy. So we should be able to get even more than that if tuned properly. The extra weight would drop it down some, but the addition of better aerodynamics and lower resistance tires will up it some as well.
I can't see how this would be anymore dangerous to the driver than a motorcycle is, and those are allowed everywhere. Plus you could drive it in the rain, and feasibly have some storage space inside.
I've been envisioning this for about a year now, and would buy one if it were under $6000, went at least 65mph getting 55-60mpg, were legal on the highway, and had a 7-9 gallon tank (400-550 miles per tank).
My question is if there is anything like this out there, of if I should go ahead and start building one?
This is kinda on the topic, so please don't mod me down to hard!
I use a folding, man-power-only bike to travel a bit over two miles to school and work, although I jog regularly to stay in shape.
I do not own a car. When I need to travel further, I use mass-transit, taking the local bus into town or using Greyhound for greater distances.
Please remove you foot from your mouth, your toes are complaining about the gastric juices.
170 posts at the time of posting this, 7 at +4 but none at +5. Seems a bit strange?
That electricity has to come from someplace... in China, that means mostly oil and coal powerplants with none of the pollution controls found in the west
Stationary power plants produce more energy and less pollution than a sea of small movable engines consuming the same amount of fuel. Chinese power plants may pollute more than American power plants, but they both pollute less than mini power plants (automobile/motorcycle engines) designed for size and weight instead of efficiency.
You can eliminate more pollution with $1,000,000 worth of pollution control equipment on one power plant, then you can with a $100 worth of pollution control equipment on each of ten thousand automobiles.
They're also used by people who have lost their license after being convicted of driving while intoxicated.
Chip H.
BANISHED BICYCLES
"It as a milestone of sorts when Shanghai, China's biggest city, banned bicycles on its largest avenues last month, but also a belated acknowledgment of a change that has already transformed many large cities in China."
"Automobile sales in China, which reached two million last year, are growing at an annual rate of more than 50 percent. The growth of private car ownership has brought with it a car culture that increasingly resembles the American one, but with even worse traffic jams, especially in Beijing. Downtown parking spaces have become precious."
How did YOU get to work yesterday, my little AC troll?
Until the earthquake hits, of course.
I'd rather have a Pocket Bike. Cheaper too, 249 on ebay.
I'm not keen to lug an extra 30 pounds (compared to a conventional, human-powered two-wheeler), especially if most of that is a lead battery...
Could this be an area where fuel-cells make sense?
Information: "I want to be anthropomorphized"
does anyone else find it hillarious that everyone is chiming in, "oh, green transportation! no surprise it's not the US doing it!"? what bullshit.
Hello! These a) are electric bikes, b) are replacing non-powered bikes, and c) would not even be viable in an industrialized country where the infrastructure is dependent on massive transportation systems.
So please just stop. This isn't even "green", when you compare it to the human-powered bikes that they're replacing, ffs. There's no need to be so zealotrously anti-American; you're simply illustrating your ignorance.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
I was thinking that public transportation could be more effective if one could take a bus or train, but also carry their own scooter vehicle for the last few miles or so that the bus/train cannot reach.
Or perhaps leave a small vehicle at each end of the route rather than carry it on the bus.
Or just rent the darned things.
However, roads would have to be made more scooter-friendly, otherwise the insurance will go sky high because of the risks.
Table-ized A.I.
Demand that e-bike manufacturers include a solar panel for trickle charging.
You're already paying $150+ for a bike, imagine what electric bill savings you would get by charging the bike with solar, after the initial $100 markup a solar panel would add.
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
I dont know how well those sites are going to take it, so I slammed up a couple of mirrors- hk.com/scooters/elbike.html v ersal.com.hk/other/scooter/scooter13.htm a .com.hk/ebike2.htm c le.com/e-bicycle.htm a deleads92504.php
TDC (sixth link) at ttp://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_436/www.tdctrade.com /imn/03062704/auto016.htm
And I didnt bother with the greenbay press-gazette because I think it can handle its own.
I have mirrored the millinium scooters (first link) at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_436/www.millennium
Skycity (second link) at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_436/www.skycityuni
Grand-China (third link) at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_436/www.grand-chin
Promax (fourth link) at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_436/www.promaxbicy
B2S (fifth link) at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_436/www.b2s.com/tr
...I can't imagine anything you can do with one of these things that you can't do with a regular bicycle.
I once tried an electric Lepton scooter (like a Vespa), and liked it so much I considered buying one. However, when I really thought about it, there's no trip I could do on the scooter that I couldn't already do on a bicycle. The scooter may be quicker in traffic, but that's not really an issue.
A car is not the answer if you get stuck in traffic while a bicycle that takes up little space on the road can get you there faster. Many western cities have bicycle couriers in the inner city for exactly that reason. We're not talking about long commutes through sprawling suburbia here.
All of you are proclaiming that this isn't leading the green movement. Well lets just take a scanario out into time and see what you think then.
Now.
we have Oil.
America makes gas using cars, and gas using moped.
China makes electric bikes. that run off of coal power plants.
years into the future.
We no longer have Oil.
millions of useless chunks of metal, formerly known as SUV's appear in junk yards in America. We have a transportation crisis because gas prices are insanely high.
China, running on its electric bikes, and possibly vehicles, loses its coal power plants. However these are replaced by hydro- and solar-electric ones.
So, ultimately having electric vehicles [bikes cars] eases the passage into utilizing sources of power that are green.
And China is leading.
face the world with eyes of fire.
Ok, electricity has to come from somewhere, batteries have to be produced, pollution happens everywhere along the production chain and in usage of electric anything, including the little box you're looking at now. A little search on the web turned up some really pricey bikes from tidalforce that have specially engineered gearing that passes energy back to the battery, apparently, when coasting. I called an ebike dealer here in the states; he told me that when he sees these chinese bikes they are in pieces and hard to fix because they're not that robust nor are parts available. I've been shopping for a bike for my commute, 20+ miles, partly because I hate driving, hate making oil companies even richer, have solar powered dreams of living off the grid, and love being out in the open instead of in a mobile rat cage. The tidalforce bikes are pricey now but there'll be one of ebay any day now and I'll be able to afford one! Maybe some ubernerd will engineer a folding solar panel that I can use to cover my new e-bike so it charges off the grid while I'm in the office... there is a demand for alternative fuel and transportation.
Don't assume that these electric bikes are gaining ground because of environmental or even traffic concerns. They're cheap, and the vast majority of Chinese people cannot afford a car. I'd bet that once they can afford them, they will happily trade in their e-bike for a big, emissions-producing vehicle. The growing middle class is already doing this, contributing to the world-wide upsurge in oil demand and price hikes at the pumps.
That's not a soda... it's a caffeine delivery device!
Absolutely Right. It can't be very "green" when it is ultimately powered by a smog-belching coal-fired powerplant.
Who would have guessed that China would lead the way in green transportation?
Greener != green
What about the lead-acid or nickel-cadmium batteries commonly used in these? How many one-armed, 3-eyed Chinese babies will be born as a result of pollution of these terribly toxic metals?
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
I live in a perfect range for something like this to work. I am about 4-5 miles away form work and at 15 MPH, it would take me LESS time to ride one of these to work then it would take to ride the bus. This also frees me of the bus schedule during the warmer months plus I woulr try and strech it. I could probably ride this from march until about november or so in Columbus. I could also ride this in a limited fashion in the winter as well. Plus soon the bus will be getting bike racks on the front of it so I can ride part way when it's rainy. Now, where do I find one like this? I think what we will shortly see is tons of these things being shipped to the US like the cheap DVD players. 100 or less e-bikes would be immensly popular for people just trying to get to work.
Gorkman
While an electric bike may not be as green as a pedal bike it's sure better than a car.
In light of reports that China is the fastest growing automobile market in the world, electric bikes look pretty good.
By charging the bike up at home,you are only transfering the location of which the poluting chemical reaction takes place.
Now, if the bike was charged up like a hybrid car, charging the battery as the bike was being pedalled, or such, this technology would be wonderous. But there is the matter of having to create the bike itself, or atleast the battery, which isn't so good for the environment.
Place something witty here
Heaven help us mid-westerners when the folks in the coastal cities realize that they can get by a lot of the time with lite transport like these bikes. They'll try and outlaw or oppresively tax the vehicles we still need just to get by out here in the sticks.
These bikes can carry a rider weighing up to 75-100 kg (about 200 lbs.) Thus, majority of potential users here will be excluded. They would simply break the bike :-)
When are you people at Slashdot going to realize that electric vehicles do not stop air pollution, they only move the place it gets made?
You have to charge up the battery. That takes electricity from the wall. Which comes from a power plant. Which BURNS something, usually coal in China. Really gawdawful brown coal too, not the nice hard stuff we get in the USA and Canada.
Smokestack or exhaust pipe, take your pick. You want to be green, you better pedal it yourself. True, you will be burning sugar and making CO2 while you pedal, but unless you plan on going "back to the land" by stopping breathing on a permanent basis, you'll be doing that anyway.
First off, the world is in the midst of one of the colder times in its entire 4.6 billion year history. So get off of your high horse and check the facts. Ya' know there have been plenty of times where the planet has not had ice caps. And guess what.. plenty of life lived and survivued during these periods.
What is your penile percentile?
After graduating from college, the two left St. Louis by bike for NYC in June of 1890. Crossing the Atlantic by boat and departing from London, they biked across Europe, wintering in Athens. The Asia leg of their around-the-world trip began in April of 1891 and wasn't completed until the fall of 1892. It's the 1891-92 Asia leg that's covered by their book. Unfortunately, they didn't do books on the U.S. or European portions.
These two guys were amazing. Along the way and almost as an aside, they became the first two Americans to summit Mount Ararat. You can find quotes from the book at Across Asia on a Bicycle.
Quite a tale. Two years after their journey, someone tried to repeat their feat and was murdered by Kurdish bandits near the Turkey/Iran border.
--Mike Perry, Seattle
Some friends of mine got their two teenage boys matching electric scooters for Christmas last, they said they paid 100$ for them. They seemed zippy enough , was watching them blast around the hood on them. Me, though, I would prefer a gas powered assist. I used to have one, YEARS ago called an aquabug, it bolted onto the front forks of basically any bike, would go around 30, and you could still pedal all you want. Wish they still made the things, they were great, got fantastic mileage. I drove mine all over bolted onto an old solid but heavy schwinn 10 speed. You could haul some serious cargo (groceries, laundry, etc) on the back and still go up hills real easy. At the time IIRC they were around 150$, (I swapped for mine but that's what I remember they were going for) and most likely they might be the same today if they still sold them, economies of scale, etc. What was really nice is, being front wheel drive, when you pedaled you were in all-wheel drive, a nice ride. they sucked until you got going more than 5 mph though, front steering heavy, but after that they cruised nice. I think they only weighed around 15 lbs, I know it wasn't that bad to shoulder it and hump it to my upstairs apartment I had at the time.
And just where do all the Chemical batteries get disposed in China? Deep cycling batteries make them wear out fast - and the manufacturing and disposal of them is quite poluting - I'll take a clean ICE anyday.
It's hardly green if the electricity comes from a fossil fuel fired plant.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
The day that China leads anyone or anything in "green" or eco-friendly behavior will be a long way away.
The poster couldn't seriously think that motorized vehicles are more earth friendly than a bike, probably the most efficient method of transportation around.
$45 per U Colocation Special
Nothing beats the VeloSolex -- apparently still made by Impex in Hungary.
Now I want one here...
Timeo idiotikOS et dona ferentes
if you charged for what is costs to dipose of the batteries properly no one would use the electric vehicles.
I'd rather breath fumes than eat heavy metals.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Sorry, but human-powered bicycles are the most environmentally friendly. Given the photos and horror stories of manufacturing in China and the lack of evironmental concerns, building those e-bikes, and especially the waste materials from the batteries, is probably adding to the pollution, not reducing it. Then there's all the additional fossil fuels needed to provide the electricity to charge the batteries. Can you say "gas price increases"? Business magazines claim part of the world squeeze in oil is the huge demand coming from China buying up all available spot market oil.
Did anyone here catch a recent (within the last month) episode of National Geographic on China on PBS?
The Chinese rely heavily on coal as a cheap means of heating. The major auto manufacturers have geared up to make and sell vehicles and sales are projected to skyrocket well past any other country in the world.
The Chinese government, not wanting to scare any business away, has relaxed environmental controls so that only the "Euro 2" standard for emissions on vehicles is in place. Note that Euro 5 is what's reported as current and our own North American standards are far more strict.
There is a constant layer of smog in the cities and our North American way of life is being exported and consumed heavily by those that have moved into the cities.
If the poster saw alot of bikes there, he must've been in a museum.
Here in Atlanta, GA, USA the motorized bikes are becoming quite trendy. Heck, even Vespa's are becoming popular.
I'm pretty sure that with Atlanta being one of the top 3 cities with the worst traffic problem in the US is probably a factor in their increased adoption rate.
Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
At the very least, it's worth noting that there's good CORRELATIONAL evidence that rising CO2 levels have an impact on the temperature. The graphs of global CO2 levels in the air match very closely with upward trending temperature graphs. You can find such graphs in some meteorology textbooks, and sometimes in geology textbooks.
/. article a while back that talked about this.)
When volcanoes erupt, the change in climate for a couple years is usually noticable and fairly immediate. Tokyo, IIRC, has a climate system all its own because of the density of its population. The city generates enough heat to modify the climate around it. (I think there was a
It's worth noting that your assertion that we're in one of the colder times in the Earth's history is entirely incorrect. Starting in the late 1300's, the planet went through a 'little ice age' right after the 'Mediaeval Climatic Optimum'. Temperatures in the 1990s were already higher than they were around the year 800. About 18000 years ago, temperatures were roughly 4.5 degrees (celcius, of course) lower than they are now.
While it's true that the planet has been without ice caps (early in planetary development) and that life has existed in the past when it was warmer (nobody has ever disputed that), it's pretty irrational to believe that we have ZERO impact on our environment and air temperature. Further, just because the planet and life will survive doesn't mean that we can do what we like. It's entirely possible that we can make life very hard for ourselves, or cause the next mass extinction. The planet is tough. Something will definitely survive no matter what we do. I just want to be part of the life that survives, and I want a reasonable quality of life at the same time. If that means I have to pollute a little less now, that's no problem with me. It's not actually very hard.
Lastly, the source of MY information is the textbook 'Essentials of Meteorology' by C. Donald Ahrens. You can find the graphs and data that I'm talking about in chapter 13, about changing climate. I would politely request that you get off YOUR high horse, check YOUR facts, and stop haranguing other people about their lack of solid information until you get some yourself - or can at least quote your sources.
(BTW, to anyone that has access to this book, second edition - figure 13.10 is the one that shows that air temperatures tend to closely follow rising and falling CO2 levels in the atmosphere.)
Their easier to make with smaller wheels, both cheaper and lighter, plus the small engines tend to produce their horse power with RPM not torque so the smaller wheels are easier to gear for since the engine is already reving rather fast with little force. Smaller wheels can also easier to drive because there's less gyroscopic effect to overcome when turning. This is the same reason Japanese cars have little wheels.
"Who would have guessed that China would lead the way in green transportation?"
I know... thank goodness they switched to electric bikes instead of those wasteful, foot-powered versions!
- Danny
Right, and the irony is that this is making it less green. I mean, that electricity has to come from somewhere, doesn't it? How many folks in China do you think are hooking their bike up to a solar panel? No, they are hooking it up to the wall, which is being powered by some long dead dinosaur in all likelyhood.
:)
If you want green, try using the pedals
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
This is 2004, who says I have to post from something so archaic as a computer?
They're replacing regular bicycles. And regular bicycles run on a good meal, and there's no avoiding the pollution that causes, whether or not you have the bicycle. China needs to get better electric production before trying to replace everybody's legs.
Help us build a better map!
I was able to ride a Swiss Flyer on a fair for special bikes.
And personally, I liked it a lot. You just turn on the power
assistance and ride it. There are no other controls.
When you accelerate or climb a slope, the drive kicks in.
You're hardly aware of it. Instead it feels like you're uber-
fit. And when you're up to speed, it just behaves like a
normal bike.
The model I rode was a city bike. I could imagine to buy
one for my mother when she doesn't feel fit enough to ride
a normal one anymore.
A more sportsy version would be attractive to me.
(I'm normally riding a good racing bike.)
Here's the link (swiss/german text only.)
As it's plugged in for that 4-6 hour charge time every night, there is a generating station somewhere burning up fossil fuel to juice it. I'll be impressed when I can burn farts to make the thing run.
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
I'd like to see a Honda or Subaru do that.
WRXs can do 12s. Granted, it costs more, but there you go.
You can add all you want to your honda and your Subaru, but spend that same amount of money on a 5.0, and the 5.0 will end up killing your car.
You can spend all that money on power and get your car down to 10 second quarters if you like. I'll spend some money on suspension and turn in lower lap times. My current interest is in rally sports, and I haven't seen any mustangs win that yet.
THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACMENT!
Keep telling yourself that. Your V8 makes good low-end torque, but you only spend a small amount of time there, right?
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
Easy while your young, but it gets progressively harder. Especially when you start adding up all the things that I've had to deal with on a regular basis
u rope/Tour_Reports/Tour_of_the_Alps/
That's why I included the "unless you're old" disclaimer. As for the other things you mention:
From drivers (hit by a car once. many close calls)
No difference bewteen a bicycle and a scooter.
From snow (drifts, and mounds. Love it when the plow throws it up on the sidewalk) and ice (very fun)
Again, no difference, except you may be going faster on a scooter, so you'll fall harder.
Flat tires, and the occasional (other part failing, or just wearing out).
Again, the same as with a bicycle, only a bicycle is cheaper to fix. If you have problems with flats on a bicycle, get some tougher tires. Some are practically impervious to any kind of damage, although a little slower rolling than the more fragile ones.
I'll give you the hot and sweaty complaints, if you live in that kind of a climate in hilly terrain. But otherwise, just go easy. I know people who ride 20 miles each way in summer, in shirt-and-tie work clothes, w/ no problems. The rest of your complaints may be covered by the "old" disclaimer. Regarding that, though -- look at the kind of riding many "old" people are still doing:
http://www-math.science.unitn.it/Bike/Countries/E
Jobst is in his late 60s, maybe 70 by now.
At my previous job we were interested in developing a real electro-hybrid bicycle designed for what many of you mentioned such as better for the environment and exercise option for the elderlies. But this is not what those e-bikes are all about in China. Do you know how they keep the price down? They use lead batteries. These batteries have the life time of about 6 months on everyday use, meaning users will need to buy replacement probably at least once a year. When you talk to the shops and ask them what they do with the batteries that were replaced, they show you to their back room piled to the ceiling with dead ones. Chinese electric bicycle makers have no interest in figuring out a way to recycle or at least dispose of all these dead lead acid batteries. The government doesn't know what to do with them. Lots of lead acid batteries lying around is really good for the envinonment, yea that's for sure.
And some people may think these are real hybrid bicycles? Think again. Some of these bicycles have pedals where you can, well, pedal your way around. But all of these electric bicycle all have an accelerater on the right handle bar, and you can cruise. We did interviews to ask them whether they pedal or cruise and about 80% said they use the accelerator all the time. We've tried riding these and you'll understand why most of them don't pedal - these bikes are impossible to pedal! You should call these electric scooters cos that's what they really are...
One thing I learned while spending time there is that things in China is never what it really seems.
Some of the comments on this article argue that this is not a good solution since they replace a non pollutive vehicle with one more pollutive. I can't believe that most of those comments are voted as insightful, where in fact they show ignorance and very narrow thinking.
In the modern world the need for everyday transportation increases rapidly, and so is the pace of living in large cities. People just have to move fast and the transition to more efficient transportation is inevitable.
The high population and poverty in China forced people to develope a better, smarter approach to solve this problem. Nevertheless, this model seems to work fine in China and stands as an example for the rest of world to mimic.
Another thing I noticed is that some people are wondering why in China and not in the US. For their information, US is the biggest polluter in the world. Bush has not attended to big environmental summits because any result would hurt US economy. As another /.er mentioned here: I soon realized that here in America nobody would ride one of these because of the social implications. Your either such a lazy fat bastard that you need a motor on your bike or your too weak and pathetic to just ride a normal bike or your a broke looser who can't afford a motorcycle or car.
I have noticed that these things are 99.9% dominated by little girls. I have only seen ONE boy riding there things.
I'll tell you this, in a few years you will see a HUGE increase in fat women. These little girls aren't getting ANY exercise at all riding these things, they are throwing their bicycles away for there e-bikes.
With that, the junk food they inhale and sitting around watching the idiot box, they will be fat slobs..
These things are just an all around BAD idea..
And besides, who says these things are eco friendly? What of the fossil fuels burned to generate the electricity to charge them??
If they are charging them with solar cells then I would be impressed, but just saying that it's running on batteries doesn't mean it's 100% clean...
Man your switch your argument real quick. I give you bang for the buck the Subura is a great handling car, but we were talking about power and bang for the buck performance, then you switch all the sudden to handling.
Well, I was talking about racing ability, which requires both. What surprised me was when you started in on drag strips, which aren't good for much beyond verifying what your dyno tells you.
As for the Porsche engines, I don't geally know whether that's true or not. What I do know is that high end subaru engines seem to cost less and require less care and feeding than I'd expect from a porsche engine. Also, the last 4 cylinder porsche engine I'm aware of is a 3.0l that went in the 968. Perhaps they just share a common design style?
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"