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First IA64 Windows Virus Released
NinjaPablo writes "W64.RugRat.3344 has been released as a proof of concept virus. It is the first virus which will only run on Windows on the IA64 platform, and uses APIs from 3 native DLLs to avoid crashing applications. It infects files that are in the same folder as the virus and in all subfolders. The author of the virus has also written other concept virii in the past."
Here's to a long and fruitful future for Win64 viruses...
I for one, welcome our new IA64 Win32 Script Kiddy overlords.
Now we hunt him down and execute him, right?
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
1) The virus uses native DLLs - it should've used .NET managed code to avoid common memory leaks and other mistakes
2) The virus does not run on 32-bit platform - so no chance of getting "Windows XP Compatible" logo.
3) The virus does not take advantage of the latest Longhorn, Avalon and Indigo features.
Overall, the work is impressive, but I am waiting for more robust and efficient viruses.
I'm surprised that this tiresome topic wasn't raised before the third post.
Iii neverii getii anyii virii. Itii mustii beii painfulii toii runii windowii.
that 64 bit viruses are twice as powerful as 32-bit ones?
guns kill people like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
Argh.
To try to stall everyone's almost certain flamewars regarding the correct plural form of virus, let me propose a new word.
Virusesii.
There, now everyone can use it, okay?
IA64 Windows was the first. (Someone had to say it)
Or the *awesome* Boards of Canada track of the same name from "Music has the Right to Children"....
'This writing business. Pencils and what-not. Over-rated if you ask me. Silly stuff. Nothing in it' - Eeyore
a hole in the "people write virii for it because it's the biggest target" argument for the proliferation of Windows virii?
That which does not kill her only prolongs my agony.
Whats the big deal? Now windows will get messed up in full 64 bin glory.And later you will see some 64 bit spyware and a tad of some 64 bit spam :P. Basicly
Fucked above the 4GB limit.
Yes! You're no longer limited to slowing your computer by simulating an architecture you don't have--you can run their viruses, too!
So what are the legal implications of writing viruses?
Could the DMCA be evoked in such a case?
Or is it only illegal when they are executed and allowed to spread to the wild?
Just some questions.
Feel free to respond, thanks.
zosxavius photography
Then that 64 bit OS might actually get out the door sometime this decade.
Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
We should have him executed, and collect the $1million+ he's worth.
Hades, PoD: Official Advocate
Virus researchers have just announced that they developed a proof-of-concept virus that can spread on an 256-bit operating system that has as yet to be designed.
According to spokesperson who didn't wish to be identified, he claimed that this had been the most infectious virus that he had seen in the twenty years of his career and had also proved to be worst to remove. He also recommended that all users should immediately buy the latest version of Anti-Virus-Sponge-Sentinel which would mop up all traces of the virus before it reached the system.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
I apologize for my horrid use of the word 'virii', and accept the standard and proper word, 'viruses'.
Must not have had enough coffee when I submitted that...
SmashTech - No smashing of tech involved
This looks pretty oldschool... no stupid RPC nonsense or VBScript, it's a virus that infects other programs, and is spread by copying infected executables around. Just like the old days with MS-DOS viruses passed around on BBS's.
Incidentally, you could probably limit your vulnerability if the program was installed by an Administrator but only run by users without write permission, or if you removed write permission from programs that you run in your own folders.
The really cool thing is that it's written in IA64 assembly code. That sounds like quite an impressive feat. From what I hear that is far worse even than the PPC64 assembly code I usually write.
Linguistic evolution is an ongoing process which can 't be controlled by an "official" standard for a word. Virii is the next step in this evolution, like it or not. You should find a job with the Quebec language police...who enforce a variant of French that has many "incorrect" features in comparison to "real" French. Neither variants is less legitimate than the other, or Cajun French for that matter. I suppose Chaucer's English should still exist. It doesn't. Get over it.
Read the details, there's nothing special to see here. This isn't a worm, it doesn't gain root/admin access and it doesn't exploit any vunerabilities of the platform. It requires "direct execution" (i.e. the user has to run it manually). It's just a good old fashioned virus that inserts code into an exe. The proof of concept is that Windows leaves exes writable by default. You can prevent it by not making your application folders writable from userland, which is what any good admin should be doing anyway.
"The file infection routine is standard. The last section of the executable is marked as executable, the virus body is inserted into the
last section and a random number of bytes are appended to the end of the virus body."
Showing that you can write viruses for 64-bit system?
Oh my god, I would never have thought that was possible! How can it be!? Mind boggling indeed! But it's great virus writers develop concept viruses to show us these amazing tasks that was previously thought impossible can actually be done!!
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Don't say something like that. You're going to start an endless thread of "Back in my days we used [ancient technology] and liked it" ... "Yes, but when I was young, we used [even more ancient technology]!"
I'm still waiting for the fabled Open Source Cross Platform Virus that can be deliever to all mail system. Sure it require the recipient to uncompress and compile the virus, but it can hit ALL platforms.
Haven't you read the "How to Troll" posts or something? That's the lamest attempt I've seen on slashdot yet.
I am evil Homer.
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
If you think "virii" is annoying, ponder this. I had a friend who insisted that not only was "virii" the plural form of "virus", but that it was pronounced "ver-il-eye".
So is this how virus writers get away with it, just call it a "proof of concept"? Gee, thanks, but I really don't think there was any question at all that it could be done...
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
I know what ING means. What does shrug mean?
"l33+5p34k" is not acceptable and should not carry over into the official language just because a bunch of basement dwelling morons think so.
Without any comment :) Check my signature. Oh also the errors are in purpose
You're right, there's no such word as "virii." There are also no such words as "boxen," "*nix," "sysadmin," "interweb," and "teevee." "Awesome" means "awe-inspiring," "cool" refers to a temperature, "radical" is what we call a nutjob, and, to my knowledge, no one has ever gotten "jiggy" with anything. Purists would even say that using "google" as a verb is wrong. These are the same people who had a problem with "surfing" the "web."
It's called slang, and it's evolving and changing all the time. Were these people to use "virii" in an official capacity, such as in a company-wide memo, or an academic paper, there would be a problem. But this is Slashdot, for crying out loud. Get over yourself and have a little fun.
So what? Boxen is not the plural of box and Unices is not the plural of Unix. But this is part of hacker culture. They are jokes. You don't have to laugh, but it's not incorrect to make jokes either.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Actually, it is a Latin phrase which means "You are a fucking moron".
Nah, it's a historical critique of the military strategy of Richard the Third.
--
E_NOSIG
The release is followed by a proof of concept jail sentence ;)
But it's so cool to say virii and it makes you look wise and better than the people who just go for the simple "viruses"! :-P
At least that's why I think so many caught on with the term...
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Of course I'm referring to total amount of Itanium users out there.
Sure. Next you'll tell me that the plural of box isn't boxen. It has to be. English is a totally consistent language and the plural of VAX is VAXen.
It is well known that the pluralizing of nouns in english is well defined:
ouse -> ice.
eg. house -> hice.
ata -> atabase.
eg. data -> database.
ink -> egnancy.
eg. drink -> pregnancy.
That one is a little tricky because it requires a change in the base word.
outer -> 0,000
cisco router -> $450,000
See previous example.
Just a thought.
this isn't an evoltion of the language. It doesn't follow any proper forms and needs to be stopped.
For a website that is full of "geeks" you sure do pride yourselves in talking like a bunch of undeducated morons.
It looks like Gaelic or somesuch to me.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
...'vir' in Latin is 'man'. The form of 'viri' mentioned above can be confused with some derivation/declention? of 'vir'. My lack of remembering much of Latin is also why I only took three years. =P
I know I dread having virii infect my linux boxen!
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Virii, Virii, Virii Yes, monkeydance time again.
W64.Rugrat is a fairly simple proof-of-concept virus. However, it is the first known virus to attack 64-bit Windows executables on IA64 systems intentionally, and it does so successfully. The virus uses a handful of Win64 API-s from 3 different libraries, NTDLL.DLL, SFC_OS.DLL and KERNEL32 respectively.
From NTDLL.DLL the viruses uses the following 3 functions LdrGetDllHandle(), RtlAddVectoredExceptionHandler() and RtlRemoveVectoredExceptionHandler(). The virus supports vectored exception handling to avoid crashing during infections.
Yes, the virus uses three DLLs. It also uses a routine to avoid crashing itself while infecting the machine... it does not look like the virus cares about crashing other applications.
The thing to pay attention to here is that this is a fault tolerant virus. I have seen more and more effort lately (Sasser for example avoids shutdowns to help it propagate) from authors trying to make their creation survive.
indeed. Richard Of York Gave Battle In Vain.
presumably trying to fight for Windows' security is also in vain.
Further, don't use the words boxen, ass-load, peeps, pissant, whiz, whacked or gonna. As a matter of fact, all slang terms should be outlawed, so we can keep the purity of our Merkin English. Everyone knows only terrorists and employees of Indian call centers use slang anyway.
"radical" is what we call a nutjob
A nutjob might be radical to you and those who use the fake word 'virii'.
To those who use the word 'viruses', getting a nutjob is commonplace. Women really like a man who can speak English properly.
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
Evolution indeed. As Darwin would say, once there was a virus, then it started reproducing, evolving, mutating, whatever you want to call it. The result? A number of viruses here, a number of virii there...
Maybe you should update your crusade links. The Perl.com and Merriam-Webster links didn't work.
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
We need a "-1, Pedantic" moderation category.
And why is it a shock that a virus can be written for either?
When palladium comes out and someone writes a virus that can escape it's sandbox, infect executables (which I'd imagine would involve resigning them) and spread, I'll be impressed.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
The plural of penis ought to be penes, if you were sticking to Latin plurals. Fortunately we aren't, and it isn't.
So, ala Agent Smith in The Matrix, Man is a virus? I'd have to agree on that one...
roy g biv is the author of the worm, and is a member of the 29A VX group. The group has been responsible for Donut (first .NET virus), Winux (the first virus to infect both Linux ELF binaries and Windows executables), as well as a few others of notoriety.
29A is probably the most elite malware group out there.
Is PPC64 assembly that bad? I am just getting started on PPC, but it looks like decent ISA to me, much unlike crufty old x86, or new-cruft-on-old-cruft x86-64.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Of course, languages never evolve over time.
For great justice.
My favourite mnemonic was "Bad Boys Ravish* Our Young Girls But Violet Goes Willingly" (Black-blue-red, etc, colour bands on resistors). Rainbows always seemed dull after electronics class...
* Why, yes, this has been changed for our new PC times.
This is where the serious fun begins.
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
aha! So that's what delayed the release of windows for amd64: it was not compatible with old viruses. Now that this obstacle has been overcome, how long until the release?
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
And whenever I see a
What about spending your time convincing people of more important issues like [insert anything else here]?
espo
But when linguistic evolution is driven by clueless people trying to show how "smart" they are ("Oh, look, I can make this word plural in a way that makes me look like I studied Latin"), then it should be smashed flat with a large-type edition of the Oxford English Dictionary. People invent words, sometimes because there's a true need for a new word, and sometimes because they're ignorant of the correct word. People who invent out of ignorance should be shunned. And the virii they rode in on...
"Train employees not to open attachments unless they are expecting them. Also, do not execute software that is downloaded from the Internet unless it has been scanned for viruses. Simply visiting a compromised Web site can cause infection if certain browser vulnerabilities are not patched."
someone must have mistyped that from this...
"Train employees not to open attachments unless they are expecting them. Also, do not execute software that is downloaded from the Internet unless it has been scanned for viruses. Simply visiting a compromised Web site can cause infection if a certain browser's vulnerabilities are not patched.
Not sure why that poster tried to act like PPC64 is a difficult variant. It's easier than many others. Very straightforward.
I think he was just showing off his Intarweb c0ck.
IA64 is a nightmare. Instruction bundles, etc.
Just like hacker doesn't (only) mean hacker anymore but (also) means cracker. So stop the moaning about it, that's how language works, as the parent explained.
I would like to protest that although this is technically a 64-bit virus, it does not run on the more common and widely accepted Powermac G5, instead choosing to support only a badly cludged extended win32 API.
Does anyone know of a 64-bit version of Bochs or VirtualPC which ould let me run this new and interesting piece of code in emulation?
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
Socially inept nerds making up (what they think to be) cool-sounding plural forms does not count as a valid step in the evolution of the English language. The plural for "virus" existed long before computers did, and there is absolutely no reason to change it when it refers to a computer virus. You can use the word "virii" if you want, but don't be surprised when people think that you're a fucking retard for doing so.
Okay, just to collect all of the Microsoft trolls in one thread:
How can Windows ever be secure when exploits are released before the OS is available?!
It seems to me that Microsoft can't design a secure OS. After talking about security for more than 2 years, their latest incarnation is even less secure on its release date than Windows 95!
Microsoft: the Day Zero Exploit(tm) company
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
There's also a tasty Boards of Canada song by that name. I doubt the author put that string in his code simple to remind us of the colors of the rainbow? Maybe he's a techno fan? :)
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
Wait a minute - I thought MS wasn't going to release a version for IA64? Is this some kind of joke or have I been making love too much to hear the news?
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Perhaps we _should_ use the term virii for these do-nothing, 'i just wrote it cause I'm l33t' brainless viruses that have been popping up all over the place - the multitude of click 'n send email crap that are Outlook's forte.
When actual, destructive programs come about, called them viruses. These weenie, all they basically do is self-replicate, things can be called virii to serve as a distiction between a trye virus and a wannabe virus.
...Rob
The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs; it's Don't Tread On Me.
"[It] uses APIs from 3 native DLLs to avoid crashing applications."
Viruses are sure getting considerate!
Who cares about the dictionary, in and of itself? When we speak or write language you made up, especially when it's redundant, our listeners/readers will be confused bu, and/or disrespectful of, your meaning. Do you prefer your message to be the subject at hand, or your identification with a subgroup? Sometimes you must choose.
--
make install -not war
To all those saying that a proof-of-concept virus is still a virus and that this guy is doing a disservice to the world by writing one, I'd like to give an alternate way of viewing it. Writing proof of concepts that aren't spread in the wild (like the other viruses mentioned in the second link) help anti-virus groups in advancing knowledge on current/new techniques that may not have been known about or considered in the past.
IANAVWOAVG, though (I Am Not A Virus Writer Or Anti-Virus Guy)
Redundant, yes, but of all the anti-virii comments, this one's the best. It should get at least a 2.
It's right here
Join the TWIT army now!
Right over here!
Join the TWIT army now!
No, I'm pretty sure it's some other acronym... I just haven't figured it out yet.
/presumably?
In order to continue using virii, I shall now spell virus as virius.
Damn windows virius.
Rod Taylor
Shouldn't that be
(Thank you, Slashdot, for complaining that my comment has too few characters per line. Hopefully this will make you happy.)
People seem to be missing a major point here. This file doesn't do anything fancy, it just reads files and 'infects them'. There are no indications that this 'virus' is bypassing any kind of system security.
From the article:
"The SfcIsFileProtected() function of SFC_OS.DLL is used to avoid infecting executables that are protected by SFC (the System File Checker)."
Any sensible XP64 installation would not allow system files to be write accessible to anyone but the Administrator.
It's as if I wrote a c program that used fopen() and write() to destroy files, then declared I wrote a virus for linux. Whoo hoo.
...To future occurances of this comment being modded "Troll" on sight.
Slashdot will only display 100 comments to a page. And responses to this comment tend to take a bunch out of that quota every time.
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
:)
A goal is a dream with a deadline
Ah yes, and the even more offensive version I learned:
Black Boys Rape Our Young Girls But Violet Gives Willingly.
Of course, this was in Maine in the mid-80s, in a college class with exactly one female, taught by a crusty old Navy vet. Not exactly PC California.
I used to think this was kinda funny, back then, but today I'm a bit ashamed of myself for that. It's still a damn good mnemonic, though.
Java: the bastard demon spawn of C++ and Ada
It proves he is an asshole... how does it help that he wrote a virus? ./virusWritters
---
You mean to tell me that Windows is *INSECURE*?! NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!111one
Oh. I give up. I used to think I could stamp out "Noo-Kyuh-Lur", but now it's even in the fucking dictionary. However, we haven't been consistent and renamed the nucleus, to nukyoolus or nucleic acids to nukyoolayick acids. Why? Why??? WHY????! Maybe because people can still understand what it means? Still, it drives me up the fucking wall to here Americans say "Noo-Kyuh-Lur Weapons". But, I give up. People are happy with being stupid and illogical. I refuse to actually join them though.
Who is Twirlip of the Mists?
Okay, I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I just can't let this one go. No, I'm not a fan of the DMCA, no, I'm not a big fan of the Patriot Act (though I certainly don't disagree with all of its provisions). However, do you have anything at all to back up this statement? At all? Even one scrap of evidence to suggest that the FBI is breaking down the doors of people who write viruses and locking them up forever without a trial? Even in the case of terrorists (Hamdi and Padilla), they may be currently held without trial, but they are clearly getting legal review of their cases, as are the Guantanamo Bay detainees, who are (1) not American citizens, and (2) not being held on American soil (no, it's not American soil, that's spelled out in the agreement with Cuba...go check.) Statements like this that make legitimate attempts to reform bad law difficult because they make us look like raving lunatics instead of calm, reasonable, intelligent people. From now on, please think before you post.
I apologize for my horrid use of the word 'virii', and accept the standard and proper word, 'viruses'.
... feel free to use whatever slang you like.
:-)
As others have pointed out, the language, and slang in particular, is constantly evolving. You were using common slang in an informal forum, pendants seeking to impose their notion of linguistic orthodoxy notwithstanding.
Had you been an anchor on the television, or submitting a serious scientific article for peer review, it might have been an issue. This is slashdot
Must not have had enough coffee when I submitted that...
Well, I for one have had plentii of coffeeii, enough to consider writing some antiibodiies for the virii others feel the need to wriite.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
if you knew absolutely anything about language, you'd know that there is no wrong or right, just understandable or not understandable.
just because a word is not in a dictionary, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. if your view of language was right then language wouldn't have existed before dictionaries were invented and new words would never be formed.
i'm on a little crusade of my own to stomp out pedantic assholes like you who feel the need to dictate to everyone else how they should use language.
this comment isn't informative, it's moronic.
If the OS can't be released on time, at least the virus that exploits the OS can be released on time!
I for one welcome our new [insert main topic] overlords.
Nah, it's obviously a nod to Paranoia, the old RPG game...
"Of course the computer is my friend, why do you ask?"
Reason why there is hope for the future generation #364:
"I wish my grass was emo so it could cut itself."
Moderators: with your help, we can wipe out "virii" in our lifetime!
Nope, you can't wipe out the word "virii". It just keeps spreading. As soon as one guy uses it around his two friends, it spreads to them. Then they each use the word around two other friends, who catch it. At this point it stops for a while, since those seven geeks don't have any other friends. But then one of them posts it online, and it spreads to hundreds of others.
Despite your efforts to stop it, the word "virii" will continue to spread to more and more people, like some sort of computer "worm".
... i can't find the "virouses X virii" thread.
Something *VERY* weird must be going on!
I don't use those, except for 'peeps,' but that's because my girlfriend loves the little things, so I use them to put her in a good mood.
You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=52
--rhad
Slashdot needs to interview Natalie Portman.
The person who uses a word because it sounds cooler and everybody still knows what he means, or the person who judges somebody as a "retard" for use of a single word?
I use virii, because I like that word better. And nobody has a problem understanding what I mean, therefore the point of language, namely communication, is accomplished just as well. Viruses looks and sounds fucking stupid. You retard.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Actually language is simply what people use to communicate verbally and writen and is defined by said usage.
What determines what is a word is NOT some definition of correctness. Useage is what defines the language. So if enough people were to use virii as the plural of virus it would be so.
This is pretty much a summation of the statement a language expert and senior editor of a well known, dictionary (who's name escapes me), said during an NPR interview a few months ago.
I'm shure if you looked around you could find pleny of examples of words that started out as manipulations by a subset of the population that gained popularity and are now considered regular english.
'Hacker', for example, is one such word twice over at least. It started as a reference to people who used hand axes to make furniture.
now look where that word is used.
Mycroft
https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
Technology? You had TECHNOLOGY? Why you kids got it easy, WE didn't have technology, no sir! Why, first we had to walk UP-hill, 83 miles, to the sacred valley, then we had to get naked, smear ourselves with cowdung and ashes, eat magic mushrooms and DREAM about technology! That's all WE Had, and we LIKED IT!
Therefore, many men are... virii! (or viri, but that was explained above).
Actually, it's whatever people start using. In the H/P/C/V/W underground it is actually refered to as "virii".
Did you know that languages like English are constantly evolving and can be changed? If everybody says virii as the plural of virus, then the plural of virus is virii, if you like it or not.
#include "sig.h"
You had me at "crusade".
Seriously, dude, switch to decaff.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Only on Slashdot can a comment like this get rated informative.
Mod it like people care.
Actually, 64-bit Windows XP is already out there and available for purchase, but only for the IA64 architecture (itanium) - support for AMD's 64 bit chips is still in beta (although relatively stable, from what I hear).
Um, you mean like "octopius"?
Yes. You would use the "ii" ending for that word, however, for octopus, you would only use a single "i".
Dumbass. I can see why you post anonymously. Because you are stupid.
Learn to love Alaska
must have been caused by one of those viroxen I've been hearing about.....
A goal is a dream with a deadline
LMAO, good luck with that.
So this virus can infect the whole 3 people on this planet who actually run 64bit intel procs and win64...
So much for MS's claim that the number of viruses a platform has is proportional to its popularity... that is, so they claim, why Linux has so few (no?) viruses and why Win32 has so many.
Somehow I think the number of people running Linux outnumber the people running Win64 by about 1,000,000:1 (maybe more).
- Preferences: Solaris 10 (servers), Ubuntu (desktops), Solaris 11 (personal servers) -
Not this elitist, hoary old Chestnut again.
I am so tired of Windows apologists making this totally unfounded claim, over and over again, hoping the public will continue to buy it.
Let's get this straight:
Windows viruses exist because Microsoft decided long ago that they were going to co-mingle EXECUTABLE CODE with DATA!
Windows users have been trained for years to double click on DATA to launch the EXECUTABLE application which reads the DATA.
In a sane world, a user would have been taught to launch the APPLICATION first, and, afterword, used that APPLICATION to open a DATA file.
The God Damned DATA file would not "EXECUTE", it would just be read by the APPLICATION!!!!!
In addition, of course, automatic macros and scripts, if they existed in their current form at all, would have limited abilities which would prevent them from corrupting your DATA.
Why is this so hard to understand???
I mean, they do everything for you! I want to start a new line of viri that make you configure them through dialog boxes. You know, a "time between infections" slider, maybe a "target folder" dialog, "actions to take" list of checkboxes (format drives? delete random files? change random bytes?) with scheduling, a place to type in email addresses of other people to try to infect (probably by sending them a link to an FTP site they have to download the virus from, then run it).
Maybe a nice splash screen too -- "WELCOME to Atario Virus 1.0 beta. If you like this virus, please consider sending a donation of $10 to..."
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
Unless you read The Truth"
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
When people start attacking you on grammar or spelling while your message is quite understandable, it usually points at those people not being smart enough to come up with a real argument as to why they dislike your message.
And ANOTHER thing. I just hate it when AOL users get onto our Internet and use their stupid stupid kiddie chat speak. It's not LMAO, or ROTFLMAO. It's more like SHUTTHEFUCKUPAOLIDIOT.
Don't know what the hell that would be if it was plural.
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
So, like, language evolves. You got a problem with that? And like, words migrate from slang to the dictionary, NOT from the dictionary into usage.
Dictionary definitions are subject to social fiddling anyway. You have any idea how many good old Saxon words have been ruled illegitimate even with centuries of usage? If you check into some of the "vulgar slang" rude words, you'll find they've been in use since time immemorial. Presence in or absence from the dictionary is no measure of whether or not a word is a 'real' word.
That wasn't so hard? Was it?
I ain't gonna stop sayin viri.
We could always respond to both. I tend to think it's rude to correct people's spelling and grammar but I sometimes make an exception when they display willful ignorance, as in 'virii'.
Why is anything anything?
That would go well with my proposed "-1, illiterate" catagory.
Why is anything anything?
I'm not a native speaker of the English language and don't mind corrections here and there, but attacking people and calling them names over it is something entirely different.
Oh, and.. nothing against anti-virii crusades, but often it is irrelevant compared to the rest of the message.
Windows viruses exist because Microsoft decided long ago that they were going to co-mingle EXECUTABLE CODE with DATA!
.COM/.EXE/.BAT files.
Windows users have been trained for years to double click on DATA to launch the EXECUTABLE application which reads the DATA.
In a sane world, a user would have been taught to launch the APPLICATION first, and, afterword, used that APPLICATION to open a DATA file.
The problem is not with the double-clicking to open up documents (which is a reasonable action, much like the Mac, and makes the system easier to use for novices).
The problems are:
1) Microsoft chose to hide file extensions from the user, which makes it difficult for the user to tell what is a document and what is an executable file. Prior to Win95, users were fairly easily trainable to not run
2) Documents that contain executable code. While not a sin in and of itself, these scraps of script were given complete and unfettered access to the box (rather then running in a limited sandbox). Which is actually the fault of the application, and not the operating system. (Except that Microsoft is responsible for both, since most problems are with VBA macros in MSWord or MSExcel.)
3) Lack of an execute flag on files that has to be manually set (this isn't perfect protection either as anything the user can do by hand, can be automated).
4) Poor security model where the user has to pretty much run as Administrator. Which is a leftover from the Win9x days when there was no such thing as file system security. (And rather then break compatibility with old programs... we have the mess that we have now.)
Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
The latin root is irrelevant now. The English borrowed the form for singular and made its own plural form. It's the use that dictates the form, as much as grammar nazis dislike that. Even Britannica uses viruses.
(The trouble with seems to be the lack of quotes for the Latin plural form; the reason could with virus being a collective noun. also, declined forms are mixed - some use it as a 2nd declension neuter, few as a 4th. Dead topic, anyway.)
The difficulty in discerning native and non-native speakers is a big part in my general forgiveness of even the most glaring errors. However I do often take part in the anti-virii crusade for the very reason that it is generally not a mistake. That is people use the word deliberately. Whether or not the poster knows the word's state of acceptance is not really an issue if someone chooses to bring it to their attention. It becomes either an informative response or a critical one, depending on whether the poster made a mistake in copying the illiterate (as a non-native or uneducated person might) or whether they willfully used a badly concocted and unnecessary bastardisation of an existing word.
Why is anything anything?
To me the later falls under the catagory of 'common use'. Its how languages develop, and while it would be nice if there was solid logic to how a language develops, the level of irregularity in most languages suggests there is no such thing really. In other words, its defined by use, and if you think a certain use is incorrect, use what you consider to be the correct one. Denouncing it does little when compared to overwhelming it with a better alternative.
That was meant to be informative -- the common 4-letter 'swear' words have been in ordinary use since before Shakespeare, and yet are *still* considered slang. That says a lot about dictionaries and their function as a prescriptive definers of proper language rather than describers of actual language.
A pendant is jewelry. You meant pedant, which is what I am being by responding. Like virii, your use of pendant is wrong. Not slang, just wrong.
If I referred to your sentence as "high-falutin'," that is slang. If I referred to it as "retartid," that is simply an incorrect spelling.
The English language isn't evolving new Latin-esque plurals. It's not slang. It's just ignorant pretension, which is the worst kind of pretension.
I do use the alternative. I also point out the use of 'virii' so that people who are unaware that it is not (yet) a generally accepted word can be made aware of that fact.
Why is anything anything?
This *always* happens on slashdot when 'virii' is mentionned.
A whole bunch of "It's latin", "no, it's not", "it's slang", "no it's not" posts will pop-up like mushrooms.
While I agree that it's not correct latin, and I understand that some people have difficulties with the 'correctness' of it, it really doesn't matter one bit as to the validity of a word.
1)Language 'lives'; it changes with the passing of time.
2)Slang is not 'inferior' or 'wrong'; it are just words that are used in a subculture.
3)Words of a subculture can and have become 'mainstream'
4)In the past, english (as many other languages) has been 'corrupted' with equally 'wrong' words...yet we use them today as if they always have been correct, mostly not even being aware that once they were considered stupid, wrong, grammatically incorrect, foreign, nonsensical, inferior, ridiculous, the result of laziness, plain misspelled, etc.
Yet they are *all* considered mainstream english now! So, let's face it, there is *no* objective mechanism where you can say; this word has no place in our language or not.
If it's understood and used in this language, then ergo ipso, it *IS* part of that language.
Now, anyone understands what is meant by 'virii' and more and more people/posts use the term virii, with purpose, even beyond their 1337 roots.
So it really is silly to fulminate that virii is not a word; it is used as one, it is understood as one, and it even has left it's pure sub-culture 1337 roots behind so that now it's actually becoming slowly mainstream. So what, in a year or 5, it may end up in the dictionary, as so many 'non-existent' words before it...and what will be the the contra-argument then?
Why, in another 20 years most persons won't even know anymore that it was once considered as 'non-existent' or 'wrong'. They will use it, as we use all those other words where people fulminated against, just as with they will with new, totally wrong words that will pop-up. That's what it means when we say a language lives, after all.
--- "To pee or not to pee, that is the question." ---
Yes, let's hear it for ignoramii.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Personally I'd like any identified virus writers to be publically, maybe they can let all us poor buggers who get on the receiving end of their "proof of concept" programs. Bet he has no friends and lives with his mum! :-)
Server 2003 also has an Itanic build available. You get both IA32 and IA64 CDs when you buy it through an Open Business agreement.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
The word "hacker" is a simple case of redefinition. "Virii" is a case of lonely teenagers inventing an invalid plural form of a word when there was already an existing one that had been in use for centuries. "Virus" for example, can now describe malicious programs, so what's wrong with the accepted plural form of it?
1) Cheer on developer for releasing proof of concept virus 2) Turn him into Microsoft for some reward money... 3) Profit! I have exactly one point of karma, so I thought it would be worth it. ;)
This has kinda dumbs the theory of "Linux has no viruses because it's not popular enough".
Do your best, hope for the best, suspect the worst.
Linguistic evolution is an ongoing process which can 't be controlled by an "official" standard for a word. Virii is the next step in this evolution, like it or not.
It's not a matter of liking it or not liking it. It's a matter of "virii" simply being wrong, for lots of highly nerdy reasons.
I would have thought that your average slashdotter would climb on that bandwagon in a second.
I write in my journal
i think the ii's are a sign he is infected. with somethign.
Infected with "somethign"? Don't you mean GNU/infected with somethiGNU?
The Word.Concept and Nimda viruses also started out as a proof of concept. Word.Concept showed that macros could exploit a popular application's macro system, and Nimda showed that a single worm could spread through multiple vectors.
"This's CV, no Nimda." -- author of Nimda.E
Syllabus... syllabi.
Octopus... octopi.
Just as wrong. Syllabus is from Latin and declined accordingly. Octopus is from Greek. Why we don't say "octopodes" when referring to more than one octopus is a mystery, but that's just how it is.
I write in my journal
The difference in number of exploits, viruses, bugs, etc... between Microsoft Windows and the next competitor (whether it be Apple, IBM, or Linux) is at least two orders of magnitude.
If I added all of the known exploits and viruses which targeted MVS, IRIX, HP-UX, Mac OS, Linux, Free BSD, etc... I'd still be hard pressed to find even 10% of the number that target Windows in a single year.
So, yes, you could say the subject is open to debate. But I challenge you to find any other OS vendor who:
Microsoft is the exception to the rule. No one else in the industry writes software as poorly as they do:
I could go on, but you get the point. Microsoft isn't just a little negligent - they're nowhere near the industry standard when it comes to professionalism. The quality of their code is so poor that simply can't be compared to any other vendor - no one else has released code which comes even remotely close to the number of bugs and security exploits that Windows has.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
Finding holes in Windows software...does that make you feel real good? Do you feel like a big man? Huh?
God, you make me sick. You just have to go and rub salt in an open wound there.
Another example:
Sportscasters used to say "He finally got his shooting back on track". This has gradually morphed into:
"He finally got untracked". Which, taken literally, has a completely different meaning, but people still understand what is being said, and has become common usage.
...or Execute Disable. Check out Table 4-6 for more details.
;).
As for the ("waekly" -is that Welsh or what?) IA-32e processors since they aren't shipping yet, you don't know whether they'll have it
Agreed about the post not being derived through any great insight, but in a similar vein, a post should be modded according to the content, not the author. You will note that posts are modded, not authors. If a post is funny, insightful, interesting, then it should be modded as funny, insightful or interesting.
To mod a post that may be highly informative to the majority of readers as Troll just because the author posted Troll posts in the past is just stupid.
They were ?
Users are prepared to open password protected zip files and deliberately run malicious code, and you think a file extension is going to slow them down ?
2) Documents that contain executable code. While not a sin in and of itself, these scraps of script were given complete and unfettered access to the box (rather then running in a limited sandbox). Which is actually the fault of the application, and not the operating system. (Except that Microsoft is responsible for both, since most problems are with VBA macros in MSWord or MSExcel.)
Can't argue with that one. Not running embedded document macros in a sandbox was a poor tradeoff between functionality and security.
3) Lack of an execute flag on files that has to be manually set (this isn't perfect protection either as anything the user can do by hand, can be automated).
NT (using NTFS) actually does have an execute permission that can be toggled.
4) Poor security model where the user has to pretty much run as Administrator. Which is a leftover from the Win9x days when there was no such thing as file system security. (And rather then break compatibility with old programs... we have the mess that we have now.)
This is not the fault of the security *model*, it's the fault of *poorly written applications*. The *security model* supports running as a regular user just fine - I've been doing since the days of NT4.
Off corse thay do, evry1 shoold go along wit dat.
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
gentlemen, we have the technology. We can re-rape you. Bigger, faster, stronger. Better than the rape we put on you before..
But how in the Hell do you debug a virus?
"Anyone who attempts to generate random numbers by deterministic means is living in a state of sin." -- John von Neumann
What happens if he has that, and his u+s bit set?
I find it annoying when all of the Slashdotters suddenly start bitching about Latin spelling only to increase their karmata like it was proportional to their IQen or the length of their phallii.
Actually it is:
Et cetera.
Sincerely,
Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
"Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
Actually there's nothing wrong with viruses, and personaly I prefer it to virii myself most of the time.
I honestly prefer 'normal' english to what is often used today. I find 'ebonics','1337' speak, 'valley' speak, and so on anoying most of the time (humor and deliberate use to make a point is usually o.k.).
However language is defined primarily through use, what is or 'ain't' a word isn't static. Nor is language subject to specic rules and procedures for it's developement and evolution. In short language just happens.
Not that I think efforts to educate people to standards of use in spoken and written language is a waste of time. Efforts to keep language reasonably consistant is import to clear communication.
Also I am certainly no saint with respect to use of grammer (believe it or not on my college placement test I qualified for honors english, but that was a few years ago) and my spelling is erratic and weak to put it kindly.
I see the primary purpose of language is communication. A polite note if I scramble my grammer is o.k., desired even if my grammar creates confusion as to my meaning. But being a grammar nazi is usually just plain stupid, especially when it's used instead of a valid argument or point of view when there is a dissagreement.
Mycroft
https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
-- search the web
not jesus's;-)
Don't get me wrong, you'll find no sympathy for
M$ here but:
The first a-bomb was developed as a proof of concept. This guy should keep his virii to himself
The best are never heard about in public web sites...
Temper - temper!
I might not be such a perfect being like yourself, who is never tired and never made an error when writing or speaking, but I fail to see the relevance of your remark in respect to the actual content and arguments I gave.
Focusing on a minor detail instead of going into the real issues mentionned is, IMHO, making an ass of yourself.
It is, infact, very cheap. I could as well say 'Stop Making an..." is incorrect too, and sarcastically ask if you know how sentences are written and when to use capital letters, and if you are the right person to make comments on the mistakes that others have written, then.
But what would that prove? Other that such a person is a pedantic ninkenpoop?
You are correct in saying it was a wrong mixing of words, but you could do that without resorting to malvolent sarcasm or namecalling. And neither deals with the arguments I gave, nor do they make them unvalid.
--- "To pee or not to pee, that is the question." ---
While the evolution of a language may not be subject to any rules, the language itself is, and the word "virii" breaks those rules needlessly. It's not a valid evolution because it doesn't address any sort of need or shortcoming in the language. It's simply redundant.
> I am evil Homer.
/.!!! You and the original poster are on the same wavelength, but the clueless /. moderators fail it today. Thanks dude!
LOL! This has to be the BEST post EVER at
Yes, I suppose this might refer to the colors of the rainbow; but, in the old days of build-it-yourself electronics this was the resistor code.
Harpo Tunnel Syndrome--my wrist feels funny.
"Boxen" was an intelligent play on its similarity to the word "ox" and its Anglo-Saxon plural form, "oxen". So is Unices, putting the latin inflection to work on the acronym "UNIX". Which is even more hilarious because it only works on "Unix", not on "Multics", which doesn't look latin. It's just playing with language. I am very glad, not to say proud, that computer geeks can do it so well.
"Elvii", as in Peggy Bundy's "Look, Elvii" when coming to Las Vegas, was a great one-liner, though it's grammatically wrong (the plural of the -is declination would -es, but "Elvis" is not even latin).
"Virii", I think, isn't even used as a pun, is it? It's basically wrong, "viri" being the correct form and "viruses" the usual one. Doesn't it even sound a bit stuffy, like "Let's put in another '-i' so it sounds more latin".
vir viri m. [a man , male person]; esp. [a grown man; a husband; a man of character or courage, 'he-man']; milit. [a soldier, esp. an infantryman; a single man, individual].
:) tend to infer that one might substitute "viri" for a set of slashbots with bad karma.
virus -i n. [slimy liquid , slime; poison, esp. of snakes, venom; any harsh taste or smell].
Latin Dictionary and Grammar Aid
sic !
CC.
post scriptum: We (pluralis majestatis
TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
I have been running an Itanium 2 box with various 64-bit versions of Microsoft Windows (sigh). My machine was affected at one time by the RPC virus, and at that time there was no patch for the particular evaluation version. The virus was a 32-bit virus, but still was capable in affecting the 64-bit Windows. I believe that Microsoft did not rewrite all the OS parts, but they run some parts in emulation. This is a shame for an OS.
-- Imperial units must die --
In the same vain, did you not mean:
;-)
Best. Post. Ever
Anyhow, glad to see we agree on some things including the general cluelessness of mods. Welcome to my friends list.
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
Okilie dokilie doo. :-)
it doesn't have to be a valid reason for evolution. People define their own language, thus, if people decide the virii is the plural of virus, then it is. It doesn't have to make sense, or break new ground, it just has to have momentum, which can be artificially created, in all honesty.