Mac OS X Running On Xbox

Debate by StevenHenderson · 2004-10-06 01:48 · Score: 4, Interesting

Wonder what M$ thinks is a bigger threat - Linux or OS X on the Xbox...

Re:Debate by RangerRick98 · 2004-10-06 01:51 · Score: 5, Informative

Clearly Linux, as OS X was only able to be installed on the Xbox by running PearPC on a Linux installation. :)

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"You're older than you've ever been, and now you're even older."
Re:Debate by Megane · 2004-10-06 03:00 · Score: 1

It should be a bit easier with the Xbox-2. After all, MS is shipping G5 Power Macs to developers as development platforms.

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#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
Re:Debate by GFLPraxis · 2004-10-06 03:27 · Score: 1

Mac OS X is the bigger thread, of course. Or, that is, it WILL be. Why? XBox 2 will run on a G5. That's a PowerPC processor. It shouldn't be hard at all to get Mac OS X running on that.
Re:Debate by Shadowmist · 2004-10-06 05:38 · Score: 1

The only slight problem might be the rumored replacement of the hard drive in the newer X-Box by a large Flash disk.
Re:Debate by NanoGator · 2004-10-06 07:27 · Score: 3, Insightful

"Wonder what M$ thinks is a bigger threat - Linux or OS X on the Xbox..."

I doubt one is worse than the other in their view. They want people to buy games for the machine, not bend over backwards to make it some sort of PC.

MS's moves to stop putting Linux on these machines has little to do with trying to supress it, rather they don't want to be footing the losses over it. I mean, let's be serious, if MS was making a profit on the XBOX systems, would they really be threatened by using Linux on it? Hardly. It's too isolated.

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"Derp de derp."
Re:Debate by myster0n · 2004-10-06 23:57 · Score: 1

OK, I'm a bit tired today. But I honestly read this as :"The only slight problem might be the rumored replacement of the hard drive in the newer X-Box by a large Fish tank."

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Nobody believes the official spokesman, but everybody trusts an unidentified source. -- Ron Nesen
Re:Debate by Shadowmist · 2004-10-07 04:44 · Score: 1

Well the latest G5 systems have required water-cooling :)

Games... by Theaetetus · 2004-10-06 01:48 · Score: 5, Funny

Sweet! Now I can play Photoshop on my XBox!

-T
(not a troll, just making fun of them)

Re:Games... by cryosis · 2004-10-06 01:52 · Score: 1

Don't forget Breakout! And Super Breakout!
Re:Games... by mlk · 2004-10-06 02:23 · Score: 5, Funny

And Halo

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Wow, I should not post when knackered.
Re:Games... by aristotle-dude · 2004-10-06 03:27 · Score: 1

And UT2k3,UT2K4,WCIII, WCIIIFT, RTCW. Oh wait, the emulator is not fast enough.

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Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.

Fable on Mac please... by menace690 · 2004-10-06 01:49 · Score: 2, Insightful

Hmmm now if I could only do it the other way around.

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A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned to walk forward. -- FDR

Re:Fable on Mac please... by MikeDX · 2004-10-06 01:53 · Score: 1

Hmmm now if I could only do it the other way around.

You want a Mac on Fable? :)
Re:Fable on Mac please... by Mysticalfruit · 2004-10-06 04:18 · Score: 1

The next question would be... Is running a Mac in fable a good action or a bad action?

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Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
Re:Fable on Mac please... by Z4rd0Z · 2004-10-06 04:37 · Score: 1

Franklin D. Roo -- was he the inventor of the kangaroo?

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You had me at "dicks fuck assholes".
Re:Fable on Mac please... by Oliver+Wendell+Jones · 2004-10-06 06:36 · Score: 3, Interesting

No, Kangaroo is an aboriginal word which translates roughly as "I don't know", so when the "new world" explorers encountered kangaroos for the first time and asked a native what they were called, well you can figure it out from there.

Not quite as well known as Columbus incorrectly naming the Native Americans as "Indians", but another useless bit of trivia, none-the-less...

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A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing -- Emo Phillips
Re:Fable on Mac please... by mausmalone · 2004-10-07 00:43 · Score: 1

Apparently, Yucatan means the same thing. When the conquistadors asked the locals where they were, the locals responded with something similar to "I don't understand you." and the Yucatan Peninsula was thereby named.

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-=-=-=-=-=
I'd rather be flamed than ignored.
Re:Fable on Mac please... by NaturePhotog · 2004-10-12 12:36 · Score: 1

Interesting, but wrong:

Recent linguistic fieldwork, however, has confirmed the existence of a word gangurru in the northeast Aboriginal language of Guugu Yimidhirr, referring to a species of kangaroo.

See the word history here, or The Word Detective. (The latter is a great site if you're interested in words.)

An Apple First by cbw82 · 2004-10-06 01:49 · Score: 3, Interesting

The first Apple gaming system?? How long do you think its going to be before Mr. Jobs sees the greatest and we get an iBox gaming system?

Re:An Apple First by kc0re · 2004-10-06 01:51 · Score: 1

Apple did invent a console gaming system (i wanna say back in 97).. it came out and hit bottom directly after.
Re:An Apple First by Ford+Prefect · 2004-10-06 01:55 · Score: 5, Interesting

The first Apple gaming system??

That would be the Apple Pippin. ;-)

Something odd about the MacOS Xbox screenshots - the last one has the 'About' window reporting 128MB of memory. Doesn't the Xbox have 64MB, then there's the overhead from the x86 operating system, PearPC etc.?

All I can think of is that it's not all allocated, and PearPC will be swapping stuff to the hard disk in a frenzy of IDE activity. The word 'particularly' comes to mind when thinking how slow the system will be.

(Oddly, I'm typing this while installing Windows 98 on my iBook, thanks to QEMU...)

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Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
Re:An Apple First by stratjakt · 2004-10-06 01:56 · Score: 1

You mean the Pippin?

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I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Re:An Apple First by stratjakt · 2004-10-06 02:02 · Score: 5, Informative

Development xboxes have 128 to hold the debug tools, and (most) retail models have the empty solder pads to very carefully add another 64 megs of RAM. Games won't benefit, or even know about the extra RAM. But linux and other homebrew apps (emulators) will.

At least one company is selling xboxes with modded CPUs, that you can adjust from 1400MHZ to 700MHZ by flipping a switch.

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I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Re:An Apple First by coolgeek · 2004-10-06 04:00 · Score: 1

Gaming system my ass. You'll be lucky to run Space Invaders with no lag using this setup.

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cat /dev/null >sig
Re:An Apple First by Krach42 · 2004-10-06 05:02 · Score: 3, Informative

But PearPC has enormous overhead beyond the virtual memory itself. Not only the available memory for PearPC, but also the resident code pages for PearPC, and then also the resident code pages for the JITC emulation.

So, even if the box had 128MiB of RAM, it's still going to be thrashing hard.

It's still COOL though.

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I am unamerican, and proud of it!
Re:An Apple First by Loco3KGT · 2004-10-06 05:21 · Score: 2, Informative

If memory serves, my Linux only reports 56MB of free RAM on my x-box

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Blessed be he who reads this post, Cursed be he who tells my boss.
Re:An Apple First by Bob+Davis,+Retired · 2004-10-06 17:51 · Score: 1

Considering that PearPC runs PPC instructions hundreds of times slower than a PPC, I don't think anyone will actually be USING OS X on an XBox, or on ANY x86 computer. It's more of a larf. Like having Windows installed on VPC on my Mac.

"whee - lookit that"
Re:An Apple First by capmilk · 2004-10-07 00:14 · Score: 1

That company is called Friendtech. Find out here.

Not too bad. by mrseigen · 2004-10-06 01:49 · Score: 4, Interesting

Even though it is running on PearPC (and thus slower than possibly imaginable), it is still impressive. Although, I just bought a used Beige G3/233 for $10 and I still have more memory (72MB) than the XBox in it.

Re:Not too bad. by stratjakt · 2004-10-06 02:04 · Score: 2, Informative

This XBox has 128 megs, as many modded boxes, and all development boxes do. A 1400MHZ CPU is even possible.

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I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Re:Not too bad. by Kenja · 2004-10-06 02:23 · Score: 1

"A 1400MHZ CPU is even possible."
Which means PearPC will run like a 5mhz PPC rather then a 3mhz PPC. This is freakin useless.

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"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
Re:Not too bad. by MikeDX · 2004-10-06 03:47 · Score: 1

Why is this modded up as informative when it isnt even true? All development boxes have 128mb onboard as standard, but nearly all (more than 99.9%) retail xboxes, modded or not have 64mb standard as the ram upgrade is just too much of a pain to be worthwhile , especially with almost everything that needs extra ram on the homebrew front (emulators) have virtual memory settings, even MameOX was given virtual memory support recently.
Re:Not too bad. by stratjakt · 2004-10-06 04:08 · Score: 1

Because it is true. Dev boxes, and many modded retail boxes have 128 megs. It's really not that much of a pain to add the chips either, if you have proper equipment and training to solder SMT chips.

Anyone with 350 bucks can have a 1.4ghz XBox with 128 megs of RAM.

For a mere 200 bucks you can get just the mainboard with 128 megs, and a 733 true P3.

For a mere 100 bucks you can get the RAM and video output upgrade.

And if you can't think of a use for doubling the RAM and CPU on a linux media workstation, you're a complete dope.

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I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Re:Not too bad. by bob+beta · 2004-10-06 13:07 · Score: 1

5 millihertz? That's not feasible. There are dynamic registers in the silicon that need faster refreshing than that.

Reminds me of when I underclocked an AST'286 system to 512 KHz. It worked. Sort of.

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"What's the frequency Kenneth?"
Re:Not too bad. by damiam · 2004-10-06 13:58 · Score: 2, Funny

5 millihertz would be the emulated CPU, so there's no actual silicon. And that's a pretty good approximation of PearPC's speed. :-)

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It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Re:Not too bad. by jbarlow · 2004-10-07 18:56 · Score: 1

Anyone with 350 bucks can have a 1.4ghz XBox with 128 megs of RAM.

Anyone with 350 bucks can have a Sempron 2800+ Compaq with 256 megs of RAM. I would have used pricewatch, but I wanted a quick example.

I'm not quite sure what you were getting at there. Except that perhaps /. readers have an obsession with making things harder for themselves in the pursuit of knowledge. But I do think I just effectively doubled the RAM and CPU on your linux media workstation, no?
Re:Not too bad. by CableModemSniper · 2004-10-11 05:25 · Score: 1

Will OS X go on the Beige G3s?

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Why not fork?
Re:Not too bad. by kommakazi · 2004-10-11 08:14 · Score: 1

yes.

XBOX2 by Squareball · 2004-10-06 01:50 · Score: 5, Informative

I'll wait till Xbox2.. it's supposed to sport a PPC processor

Re:XBOX2 by Nichotin · 2004-10-06 01:57 · Score: 1

Then you would be hacking the OS instead, becaus AFAIK Mac OS is limited to the chips that Apple want to run it on.

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Dvorak on Doomtech
Re:XBOX2 by Ford+Prefect · 2004-10-06 02:05 · Score: 2, Interesting

Then you would be hacking the OS instead, becaus AFAIK Mac OS is limited to the chips that Apple want to run it on.

There's always the VMware-like, non-emulating Mac-on-Linux - if Linux gets ported to the Xbox2, I wouldn't be surprised if other software gets ported too. :-)

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Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
Re:XBOX2 by p4ul13 · 2004-10-06 02:17 · Score: 1

Agreed, but it would in theory run smoother than the Xbox1 install.

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Paul Lenhart writes words!
Re:XBOX2 by byolinux · 2004-10-06 02:18 · Score: 1, Informative

if Linux gets ported to the Xbox2

If? When GNU/Linux gets ported to the XBOX2... ;)

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Join the Free Software Foundation
Re:XBOX2 by Matthias+Wiesmann · 2004-10-06 03:37 · Score: 4, Interesting
Then you would be hacking the OS instead, becaus AFAIK Mac OS is limited to the chips that Apple want to run it on.
This not really true anymore. Remember that the Darwin kernel is open-source, the code that makes up OS X runs on top of Darwin. If you have drivers that enable Darwin to run on the hardware, OS X will run. In fact OS X already runs on systems not supported by Apple.
In fact, if OS X would check for the presence of approved chips, how the hell would Pear PC be able to boot OS X, except by duplicating the functionality of said chips which would be a) a lot of work b) probably illegal.
To run OS X on a XBox 2, you would basically need the following things:
- Install some kind of bootloader on the XBox2.
- Write Darwin drivers for the XBox2's hardware.
- Somehow build a bootable volume that contains OS X + those drivers.
- Have the bootloader build a device tree and start the Darwin kernel.
Re:XBOX2 by hotspotbloc · 2004-10-06 07:19 · Score: 1

A soft moddable X-BOX 2 (with a PPC CPU) running GNU/Linux with MOL would be pretty cool. Imagine how fast Mac OS 9.x would run on it.
If someone is able to soft mod the X-BOX 2 the rest should come together quickly. Of course you'll have raised the ire of both Gates and Jobs but have the accolades of almost every console gamer out there.

--
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST
Re:XBOX2 by yamla · 2004-10-06 13:56 · Score: 1

Yes, but without a hard drive, it's going to make installing OS X rather difficult, don't you think?

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Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.

Very suspect ... by adzoox · 2004-10-06 01:50 · Score: 3, Interesting

I read through the entire article before this was posted here.

Very interesting, but I'm going to call foul.

Why out of all the screenshots is this one obscured? It's the most important of the screenshots out of the lot that was provided in the article.

I also thought TechTV had made it pretty clear that pearPC was almost unuseable on a machine below 2.5 GHz.

--
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny

Re:Very suspect ... by Vampyre_Dark · 2004-10-06 01:57 · Score: 1, Funny

Yeah you're right. It doesn't load at all. HOAX HOAX HOAX HOAX...

Oh wait, slashdot effect. :D
Re:Very suspect ... by Bitsy+Boffin · 2004-10-06 02:09 · Score: 4, Informative

I also thought TechTV had made it pretty clear that pearPC was almost unuseable on a machine below 2.5 GHz.

May have been true once, but PearPC has made significant enhancments. I use it for testing websites under Mac IE quite successfully (and more or less usably) on my lowly 1.2 Ghz Duron machine.

--
NZ Electronics Enthusiasts: Check out my Trade Me Listings
Re:Very suspect ... by thaddjuice · 2004-10-06 03:10 · Score: 1, Insightful

Because the screen on the XBox on displays at 640x480. It's not obscured. Look at the menu bar.

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Find me in ~/.sig
Re:Very suspect ... by Bastian · 2004-10-06 03:54 · Score: 2, Informative

No, I think that the issue is not the dock cutting items off, it's that the "Internet Explorer" label above the dock is obscuring the processor information in the "About This Mac" window.

From the parts of the megahertz number that are showing, we can tell it's a 3-digit number ending in 7 with the first two digits having rounded tops, so the insinuation is that this screenshot could really have been taken from OS X running on something like an 9877Mhz PPC G3 rather than PearPC on an XBox.

Random conspiracy theory, yes. But still kind of interesting.
Re:Very suspect ... by wankledot · 2004-10-06 04:08 · Score: 1

They could have resized the Dock, or hid it. I think the CPU speed would have been interesting to see.

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My sig is blank, I typed this by hand.
Re:Very suspect ... by bcmm · 2004-10-06 04:28 · Score: 1

They play 3D games on 640x480?

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# cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
Re:Very suspect ... by Enucite · 2004-10-06 06:37 · Score: 1

Look close, you can make it out.

It says "Processor: 887MHz PowerPC G3"
Re:Very suspect ... by coopaq · 2004-10-06 07:00 · Score: 1

Because the screen on the XBox on displays at 640x480. It's not obscured. Look at the menu bar.
The menu bar? What? The thing says it has 128mb of memory!!!
Why?
Re:Very suspect ... by bedouin · 2004-10-06 07:24 · Score: 3, Interesting

May have been true once, but PearPC has made significant enhancments. I use it for testing websites under Mac IE quite successfully (and more or less usably) on my lowly 1.2 Ghz Duron machine.

You should be more worried about Safari than MacIE. The only people using MacIE nowadays are those stuck in OS 9 or lower.

Then again, I'm not sure how similar Safari and Konqueror are when it comes to rendering, since they both are based on KHTML. Would Konqueror provide a pretty good estimation of how a page looks in Safari, if one had no access to a Mac?
Re:Very suspect ... by mrchaotica · 2004-10-06 09:16 · Score: 2, Informative

Yes. It uses a TV for a display; what did you expect?

--
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Re:Very suspect ... by toddestan · 2004-10-06 09:51 · Score: 1

I also thought TechTV had made it pretty clear that pearPC was almost unuseable on a machine below 2.5 GHz.

PearPC runs pretty well on my 2Ghz Athlon. About as fast as a slower G3. Having a gig of ram helps a lot though.
Re:Very suspect ... by Bitsy+Boffin · 2004-10-08 04:14 · Score: 1

You'd be suprised the number of people who still use MacIE for one reason or another; or at least thats what my graphic design clients say when I tell them that Mac users should be using Mozilla or Safari.

As for Safari, well it's pretty compliant with standards so theres not too much trouble with it, so I hardly ever check in it. It does have (or had, maybe they are fixed now) some glitches though in CSS handling, in that the CSS files get well and truely stuck in cache, which means that it's nigh impossible to tune CSS for it (with the CSS in external files).

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NZ Electronics Enthusiasts: Check out my Trade Me Listings
Re:Very suspect ... by CableModemSniper · 2004-10-11 05:29 · Score: 1

Thats not an XBox, it's a space station!

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Why not fork?

Is it actually usable? by bobintetley · 2004-10-06 01:51 · Score: 1

Whilst PearPC is an excellent and worthwhile project, MacOSX is so slow as to be unusuable on my 2Ghz laptop (took about 2 hours to install) so I can't see how it could be upto much on the much slower CPU in the Xbox.

Kudos for the effort though.

Re:Is it actually usable? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-06 02:06 · Score: 2, Informative

It's much harder to emulate RISC (PowerPC) on a CISC (x86) than the other way around. Hence, VirtualPC runs better on a Mac than PearPC runs on a PC.
Re:Is it actually usable? by bobintetley · 2004-10-06 02:06 · Score: 1

*sigh*

Yes, I slipped up, I meant to say that "PearPC running MacOSX" is so slow on my laptop. Thank you to everyone who felt the need to correct and insult me rather contribute to the discussion.
Re:Is it actually usable? by Quobobo · 2004-10-06 02:15 · Score: 1

Your sig is pretty appropriate if you couldn't figure out what he meant.
Re:Is it actually usable? by Chaotic+Evil+Cleric · 2004-10-06 02:45 · Score: 1

Link?
Re:Is it actually usable? by Pope · 2004-10-06 02:55 · Score: 2, Informative

The gain was mainly made due to the bi-endianess (is that a word?!) of the PPC chip, something that was lost with the G5 and the big reason MS has taken over a year to come out with a G5-compatible version of VPC. The other advatage the PPC has in emualating x86 is the register-rich nature of Motorola 680x0 and PPC chips.

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It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Re:Is it actually usable? by narratorDan · 2004-10-06 03:07 · Score: 1

Strange, I have OSX on a pathetically slow (compared to a 2Ghz) 800Mhz PowerMac 9500 and I have never had any speed issues. It's not even supported by OSX at all. Sometimes I even play some of my old games in Classic (OS9 emulation mode.) Maybe your laptop has some hardware issues, unless it's not a iBook or Powerbook and is running OSX in emulation mode. Actually, thinking about it, I think you are running it in emulation mode.

NarratorDan

--
"If you're not confused by quantum mechanics, you really don't understand it." - Niels Bohr
Re:Is it actually usable? by Coming+soon! · 2004-10-06 03:15 · Score: 1

OSX on PearPC zipps along nicely on my AMD64 3200. I'd say is comperable to Virtual PC 6 on my Powerbook G4.
Re:Is it actually usable? by narratorDan · 2004-10-06 03:37 · Score: 1

It did contribute to the conversation, making it clear that in emulation mode on regular hardware (i.e. i586 2Ghz laptop) MacOSX is painfully slow. Seeing as the Xbox has an even slower CPU and even less memory one could guess that it would be even worse. Your original post made it sound like FUD about the worthiness of OSX even on native hardware (ie PPC) even though everyone knows that there are no 2Ghz Powerbooks. Not a correction just a clarification.

NarratorDan

PS, ignore the insults, those ass monkeys get off doing that kind of thing.

--
"If you're not confused by quantum mechanics, you really don't understand it." - Niels Bohr
Re:Is it actually usable? by IntergalacticWalrus · 2004-10-06 04:17 · Score: 2, Insightful

> It's much harder to emulate RISC (PowerPC) on a CISC (x86) than the other way around. Hence, VirtualPC runs better on a Mac than PearPC runs on a PC.

Hahaha. Oh please, CISC/RISC are old 90's buzzwords. The REAL reason why running a PPC on an x86 is harder than the opposite is that emulating a target CPU with more registers than the host occurs a serious performance penalty because you constantly have to swap register values to compensate.
Re:Is it actually usable? by KH · 2004-10-06 04:36 · Score: 1

The parent was talking about PearPC. So, it is fair to assume that he was talking about Mac OS X on PearPC on his 2GHz (presumably) x86 laptop, I think. At least I read it that way.
Re:Is it actually usable? by kaos.geo · 2004-10-06 06:38 · Score: 1

I have it running WITH office:mac 2004 on an Athlon XP 2600+ Barton (1.98ghz) 512MB RAM. The new version of PearPC takes advantage of hardware video acceleration so my old radeon9200 64mb is helping a lot. Anyway it is usable.I have been able to see quicktime trailers without a hitch. The only thing is, when will the get to emulate sound??!!
Re:Is it actually usable? by bursch-X · 2004-10-06 15:21 · Score: 1

Definitely, simply because there are no 2GHz laptops available from Apple.

--
There are two rules for success:
1. Never tell everything you know.

PearPC by News+for+nerds · 2004-10-06 01:51 · Score: 4, Informative

It's just PearPC PowerPC Architecture Emulator installed on Xbox and it's painfully-as-hell slow atm, and especially on Xbox. Nothing to see, move on.

Re:PearPC by Krach42 · 2004-10-06 05:05 · Score: 1

Speed has almost no factor in this. First, it was just a demonstration of the capability.

Just the fact that someone did it is cool. It's like Sputnik. It went up, it sent back "beep beep beep", and the whole world held its breath.

Whether it's slow or not, the fact that someone did it is just sweet.

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I am unamerican, and proud of it!
Re:PearPC by nuggetman · 2004-10-06 05:16 · Score: 1

It's a good thing this was modded as informative. I almost missed the giant discussion thread on it above.

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...and that's all there is to it.

Feh...I prefer the MS OS by Tyndmyr · 2004-10-06 01:52 · Score: 1

Heresy, I know, but I, for one, am quite happy with my X-box as it came to me... Ive got plenty of real computers sitting around my house, and I gotta have something to play Fable on.

Heres to keepin' it simple!

--
Support more choices in goverment-Vote 3rd party.

Re:Feh...I prefer the MS OS by Unkle · 2004-10-06 02:38 · Score: 2, Interesting

I totally aggree, but this is slashdot. It's a law of this crazy geek world that, when a new system or device or gadget comes out, someone in the community is going to try very hard to get Linux to run on it. This just takes it a step further.
Plus, you get the humor of running a Mac operating system on a MicroSoft product.

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Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain.

Pinch of salt? by kaleco · 2004-10-06 01:52 · Score: 1

I've read many more plausable hoaxes. I'm going to defer judgement :P

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Prosperity is only an instrument to be used, not a deity to be worshipped. Calvin Coolidge

come on! by imnuts2 · 2004-10-06 01:52 · Score: 4, Insightful

Why torture yourself with a MacOSXbox, which actually is PearPC running on linux which is running on Xbox hardware. I am sure the performance of it is abysmal.

This is sadder than those MacOSXP (people trying to change their windows into a Mac)

Stop torturing yourself with this. Get a real mac!!

Re:come on! by Jugalator · 2004-10-06 02:45 · Score: 4, Insightful

Some people just don't get hacking/modding.
Hint: it's not really meant to be used ;-)

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Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Re:come on! by vjouppi · 2004-10-06 03:26 · Score: 2, Insightful

Hmm, whenever I mod something, I intend to get something more out of it, like for example at the moment I'm in the middle of modifying my Saab 9000 2.3 LPT into a full pressure turbo..

I intend to make full use of the added horsepower and torque! :-)

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-Jope
Re:come on! by SilentChris · 2004-10-06 03:30 · Score: 1

I've got a real Mac, next to a real PC (that I built), a real Linux firewall in the basement, and a real 802.11 router with a pringles can attached to the top. You don't get hacking.
Re:come on! by ameoba · 2004-10-06 03:36 · Score: 1

It's not really a hack if you take off the shelf hardware (XBox) and put an off the shelf OS (Linux) on it (a very well documented procedure) and then run an off the shelf emulator on top of that (PearPC) which is widely known to allow running of OSX. At best, it's a joke.

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my sig's at the bottom of the page.
Re:come on! by Blackstealth · 2004-10-06 03:48 · Score: 1

I'm in the middle of modifying my Saab 9000 2.3 LPT into a full pressure turbo..

Have fun, as a driver of a 2.3FPT 9000 I can say it's well worth the effort - it puts a big smile on my face every time I put my foot down and the turbo spools up...
Re:come on! by Krach42 · 2004-10-06 05:08 · Score: 1

I have a read Mac, and I'm still one of the developers of PearPC.

I don't do it because I expect it to replace a real Mac, but rather because I like emulation.

On the other hand, we have a lot of people who would like to try MacOSX out, and see what all the fuss is about, before they drop 2 grand on something they might hate.

PearPC fills nicely for this. Many of our users talk about how they're going to save up, and buy a real Mac now.

--

I am unamerican, and proud of it!
Re:come on! by JakeisBland · 2004-10-06 07:37 · Score: 1

Wow, I didn't realize that on a mac you can completely re-configure the top menu bar!? Man, and I didn't even realize that you can change not only the window shading and maximizing to how you want it to act, but you can even change the shade and close buttons to the opposite sides of the top menu! You know, I forgot that you (on a Mac) can adjust transparency for windows all you want, icon size (to the pixel), as well as run ANY windows program you want!!! (and don't give me that "but there's VirtualPC..." because we all know it SUCKS!)

You tool.

You don't even realize that while your mother and girlfriend, wait, strike that...just your mother thinks that the mac you have is cute, you forgot to buy a computer that would do whatever YOU want it to. You could have easily made your PC into a Mac and sorry, but Photoshop does run just as well on PC. Get your stupid comments off the boards, no one wants to hear your mindless zombie droning on and on and on about how you love your mac that does EVERYTHING, because it doesn't.

*Note: all of the Art community are not affected by this post, you all do what you need to and Mac is your standard. Rock on. Tools, rock off.

In conclusion, don't whine about people using software to fully (note that word) customize their computer to act the way they want it to just because you can't run jack or configure all that you want on your "real" mac.

DDC
Re:come on! by JakeisBland · 2004-10-06 07:54 · Score: 1

If anyone failed to hear the sarcasm in the first paragraph, I'm sorry...because you can't do any of that stuff on a "real" mac. DDC
Re:come on! by forkazoo · 2004-10-06 14:32 · Score: 1

I'm sure the poster would crap his pants if he found out I installed bochs on my iBook, and have been trying to get a win2K install running, for no good reason. Why do people always try and correct other people who are having fun? If it was a bad way to have fun, I wouldn't be doing it long enough for you to correct me!

World's cheapest Apple by grunt107 · 2004-10-06 01:52 · Score: 5, Funny

Used Xbox: $99
OS/X: $130
Look on Bill's face: Priceless

(Seriously, that's one cheap Mac)

Re:World's cheapest Apple by mlk · 2004-10-06 02:06 · Score: 5, Informative

£200-£300 UKP will get you a crap G3 from a second hand shop, and will be much faster.

--
Wow, I should not post when knackered.
Re:World's cheapest Apple by grandmofftarkin · 2004-10-06 02:07 · Score: 5, Funny

Look on your face when you realise it has been a month and it is still booting: Priceless!
Re:World's cheapest Apple by natron+2.0 · 2004-10-06 02:45 · Score: 1

Acutally I bought my used G3/233 Indigo iMac (rev. A) for $75! Great system for my 2 year old to play with!

--
[n8.r0n] http://petesweb.spymac.net/
Re:World's cheapest Apple by mrseigen · 2004-10-06 03:00 · Score: 1

G3/233 Beige (Rev. B) for $10 CANADIAN. Mine has PCI. :)
Re:World's cheapest Apple by Kr3m3Puff · 2004-10-06 03:25 · Score: 1

Haven't been watching the exchange rates lately...

£200-£300 = $350-$530 USD

Obviously the used XBox and MacOS X is still cheaper, not bright mind you.

--
D.O.U.O.S.V.A.V.V.M.
Re:World's cheapest Apple by Chris+Tucker · 2004-10-06 03:26 · Score: 1

Original PowerMac 5400/180 and LaserWriter 4/600 PS: Free, as in beer. They were given to me to make room in a storage locker.

Upgrade to 5400/200: Free. I stripped the logic board and other bits out of a 5400/200 sitting on the curb, awaiting the trash pickup.

Of course, I got greedy, I wanted more, MORE, I say!

Since then, I have invested some money in the computer by buying a 5500/225 logic board for US$30.00, maxed out the RAM for US$40.00 or so, got a cheap USB PCI card for my USB multibutton/scrollwheel mouse, and the big wad of cash, US$150.00, went for the Sonnet 400Mhz G3 processor card.

All this gradually took place over the course of almost three years, so I now have a PowerMac that pretty much beats most of the CRT iMacs and the early G3 machines in performance.

--
Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
Re:World's cheapest Apple by bandrzej · 2004-10-06 03:36 · Score: 1

...and the look on Steve Job's face that you just undercut all the high priced Apples: Priceless

--
LainTheWired = isgod( int Lain, int denial, float truth)
Re:World's cheapest Apple by JamieF · 2004-10-06 04:07 · Score: 2, Insightful

Actually that much money can get you a low-end G4 desktop (search on eBay for "sawtooth 450MHz"; I sold mine for about $350) that's fast enough for everyday use, games, etc.
Re:World's cheapest Apple by hai.uchida · 2004-10-06 04:12 · Score: 1

£200-£300 UKP will get you a crap G3 from a second hand shop, and will be much faster.

Maybe they're scarcer in the U.K... But you should be able to get decent beige G3 tower for under $50 in the states. Since they don't support Panther without a hack-- and they don't have USB or Firewire (both easily added with $10 PCI cards)-- they're practically worthless.

--
my password is private, but unchanged.
Re:World's cheapest Apple by McNally · 2004-10-06 04:46 · Score: 1

Since then, I have invested some money in the computer by buying a 5500/225 logic board for US$30.00, maxed out the RAM for US$40.00 or so, got a cheap USB PCI card for my USB multibutton/scrollwheel mouse, and the big wad of cash, US$150.00, went for the Sonnet 400Mhz G3 processor card.

D'oh! How could you fall for the classic "the first hit is free" ploy? It's the oldest trick in the book.
Re:World's cheapest Apple by shking · 2004-10-06 04:53 · Score: 1

£200-£300 UKP will get you a crap G3 from a second hand shop

That's a bit dear! I picked up a g3/300 desktop (with scanner and 320mb of ram) for $200 CDN ($160 US, £80 GBP). Admittedly it was a private sale, but if you look here, you'll find a retailer selling used macs at similar prices.

--
-- "At Microsoft, quality is job 1.1" -- PC Magazine, Nov. 1994
Re:World's cheapest Apple by Krach42 · 2004-10-06 05:10 · Score: 1

P3-800MHz even running the generic core only took about a half hour to boot.

I know this metric well, because I kept having to boot it in order to test my AltiVec code. Now, imagine having to wait 30 minutes to see if what you "fixed" in your code made any difference.

--

I am unamerican, and proud of it!
Re:World's cheapest Apple by Chris+Tucker · 2004-10-06 05:56 · Score: 1

I know.

It's become something of an obsession for me, to max out this machine.

The current need is for a USB/FireWire PCI card, so I can use an iPod with it.

Next up is to get a CD-RW drive to replace the stock CD-ROM drive.

When I finally get some kind of broadband connection, I'll drop an Ethernet card into it, and I think that'll be the last thing I'll do to it, save for the inevitable installation of a larger hard drive every few years.

--
Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
Re:World's cheapest Apple by lpangelrob2 · 2004-10-06 06:18 · Score: 1

On the bright side, that's a good start for your uptime!

--
-Rob
Marriage doesn't have to suck!
Re:World's cheapest Apple by mlk · 2004-10-06 11:03 · Score: 1

But then a G3 will run at a usable speed.

A duel P4 3.something and 4G of ram can't run PearPC well.

--
Wow, I should not post when knackered.
Re:World's cheapest Apple by mlk · 2004-10-11 11:50 · Score: 1

Do Xboxs have a USB?

--
Wow, I should not post when knackered.

Uh, not an Apple first... by WIAKywbfatw · 2004-10-06 01:52 · Score: 3, Informative

Apple had its own gaming system once, called Pippin.

--

"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg

Forefront by Nodatadj · 2004-10-06 01:52 · Score: 1, Funny

"But it does prove that nerds are at the forefront once again!"

It proves nothing of the sort. When the average, non nerd knows and actually gives a shit about it, then, and only then, can you say that "nerds are at the forefront".

And really, have nerds ever been at the forefront before? And the forefront of what? In fact, was it really necessary to provide a link to a film that didn't have anything to do with the article? Or are /. articles only approved if they have more than 2 links in them?

Wow, that was a bitch :)

Re:Forefront by fireman+sam · 2004-10-06 02:08 · Score: 2, Funny

I agree. I was at the forefront once. It really wasn't much different to the other three. Next time I am going to try for the fifth.

--
it is only after a long journey that you know the strength of the horse.

It's slashdotted ! Here's the text of the article by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-06 01:53 · Score: 5, Informative

(Posting AC to not kharma whore)

PearPC and Mac OS X Installation

Downloading, configuring, compiling and installing PearPC

* You have software modded your Xbox and put Xebian Linux on it. You have purchased a copy of Mac OS X and made an image of it.
* Download the source code for PearPC at http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/pearpc/pearpc-0 .3.1.tar.gz. As of this writing, 0.3.1 is the most recent version.
* Use tar to decompress the file with tar -xzvf pearpc-0.3.1.tar.gz. A directory called pearpc-0.3.1 will be created.
* Go into this directory configure PearPC by running the configuration script as ./configure -enable-ui=x11 && --enable-cpu=generic. Even though the Xbox is an x86 processor, compiling with -enable-cpu=jitc_x86 will likely result in a failed compile. To explain, as of this writing, Xebian includes gcc 3.2 and gcc 2.95.4. PearPC will exhibit odd errors when compiled with any gcc between 2.95 and 3.3, so gcc 2.95.4 must be used. Unfortunately, gcc 2.95.4 does not work with the inline assembly used in PearPC when the jitx_x86 option is specified.
* Type make && make install. If all goes well then /usr/local/bin on your computer should now contain a file called ppc. This file is the compiled binary.

If you are unable to get a successful compilation of PearPC or do not understand the above instructions, you may download a precompiled version for the Xboxhere.
Editing the PearPC configuration file and formatting the hard drive image

1. Download the following: a blank hard drive image filehere, a Darwin image file at http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/image s/darwin-701.iso.gz, a PearPC configuration filehere, and a PearPC video driverhere.

2. Decompress the image file using gunzip macosx_2gb.gz. Note that this file expands to approximately 2 gigabytes. Additionally, use gunzip to decompress the pearpc video driver and configuration file. Decompress the Darwin image with the command tar -xzvf darwin-701.tar.gz.

3. Make a directory called macosx. Move the decompressed hard drive image, Darwin image, video.x video driver and macosx.pearpc configuration file into it. Then, go into the macosx directory, run the command pwd and write down the full path to it.

4. Open the macosx.pearpc configuration file with the plain text editor of your choice. Xebian by default comes with both vi and nano. If you have never used vi before, you definitely want to use nano.

5. I will refer to the path that was written down in step 3 as PATH. Make the following changes to the macosx.pearpc configuration file:

* a. Change ppc_start_resolution = "800x600x15" to "640x480x15".
* b. Change redraw_interval_msec = 40 to 200.
* c. Remove the # in front of #memory_size=0x8000000.
* d. Change pci_ide0_master_image = "test/imgs/linux.img" to "PATH/macosx_2gb.img".
* e. Change pci_ide0_slave_image = "/dev/cdrom" to "PATH/darwin-701.iso"
* Save your changes and exit.

6. Start PearPC by typing ppc macosx.pearpc. You should see the following screen:

7. Soon after this screen disappears messages will begin appearing in the PearPC window and you should eventually see the following:

8. Mirror what is typed in this screenshot. Then, type: q, q, and finally reboot. PearPC should exit.

9. Start PearPC again. Eventually you should see the following screen:

As in step 7, mirror what is typed in this window. In addition, when you see "Uncompressing Apple16X50Serial," shut down PearPC.

Your hard drive image is now properly formatted, and you are ready to install Mac OS X.
Installing Mac OS X

1. Once again, open the macosx.pearpc configuration file. Change pci_ide0_slave_image = "PATH/darwin-701.iso" to the location of your Mac OS X image. Save the changes and exit out of the text editor.

2. Start PearPC in the us

Go Jackets! by shepmaster · 2004-10-06 01:54 · Score: 1, Funny

Just a "good job" to the guys over in the CoC. Always fun to see new things coming out of there. Even though I am a EE, I've taken a lot of CS classes.

Technically, I'm not so sure what is so great about this... All they did was install Linux then an emulator on top of that. Still, it is a fun thing to see.

Re:Go Jackets! by secondsun · 2004-10-06 02:40 · Score: 1

Sweet zombie jesus Jake I just realized that was a cc account. So things must be more fun than working on 2335 projects

--
There is nothing wrong with being gay. It's getting caught where the trouble lies.

what it means... by Lxy · 2004-10-06 01:54 · Score: 2, Interesting

What does this mean?

It means somebody has more time on their hands than I do. Yes, this is probably a useless hack, but I'll restate my theory on why modding consoles is a Good Thing(tm).

Rumor has it that the Xbox2 is in the works. Once the Xbox2 ships, the price of the Xbox will drop dramatically. At some point, you'll probably be able to pick up a used Xbox in a pawn shop for $50. $50 makes a nice price for a second computer like an internet terminal for the kitchen or some other similar appliance. So, some will say it's a waste of time to hack then and mod them in this manner, but once they're dirt cheap in pawn shops and Ebay, you'll thank the modders.

--

There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq

Re:what it means... by Guspaz · 2004-10-06 02:16 · Score: 1

So, some will say it's a waste of time to hack then and mod them in this manner, but once they're dirt cheap in pawn shops and Ebay, you'll thank the modders.

I highly doubt that enough significant advances will be made in Pear to make OSX usable on a P3 700. The best we'll be able to do at native or near-native speed, no matter how cheap the xbox gets, will be linux, or possible Windows XP once Microsoft Research finishes the modified Windows XP kernel for Xen.

This particular "mod" (If it even qualifies as such) is useless, and not very impressive. They're simply running OSX in an emulator, something you can do on any linux machine.
Re:what it means... by infinii · 2004-10-06 02:17 · Score: 1

Dirt cheap for a used XBox but if you intend on using it as a terminal, you need to perform the appropriate mods including the hardware mods so you can connect a keyboard/mouse.

I'm sure you can buy a 2 generation old computer system and it'd be easier.
Re:what it means... by StocDred · 2004-10-06 02:36 · Score: 2, Funny

Rumor has it that the Xbox2 is in the works.
Rumor? You must not get out much.
Re:what it means... by toddestan · 2004-10-06 09:55 · Score: 1

For ~$50 you can get a high end PII or a low end PIII used. Forget the xBox.

huh? by Bastian · 2004-10-06 01:54 · Score: 1, Interesting

(Can't RTFA 'cos it's slashdotted)

How could you ron OS X on a machine without replacing the x86 CPU with a PPC CPU, which would require replacing the motherboard, which would include switching from BIOS to OpenFirmware, which would require replacing the graphics card and some other crap.

And if this is the case, is it running on an XBox or is it a PowerBook that has been case modded to look like an XBox.

that or they'e really running Darwin on the XBox, which is a different thing entirely.

Re:huh? by mlk · 2004-10-06 02:04 · Score: 1

PearPC, think Boch, but emulates a G3.

--
Wow, I should not post when knackered.
Re:huh? by jimicus · 2004-10-06 02:30 · Score: 3, Informative

http://pearpc.sourceforge.net/
Re:huh? by bcmm · 2004-10-06 04:36 · Score: 1

Slow, painful software emulation.

--
# cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.

Re:OSX by eMartin · 2004-10-06 01:55 · Score: 2, Informative

THe main reason this works on the XBox is because it's already possible on x86 desktops using PearPC.

So that's what AT&T is switching to! by lpangelrob2 · 2004-10-06 01:55 · Score: 2, Insightful

I agreed with one guy in this story about how AT&T switching to OS X would be prohibitively expensive, but it appears that AT&T found a way to get their OS on a $150 system. Good job!

--
-Rob
Marriage doesn't have to suck!

Re:So that's what AT&T is switching to! by ImaLamer · 2004-10-06 02:05 · Score: 1

Talking about me?

--
Get your Unix fortune now!

Lucky stiffs by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-06 01:58 · Score: 2, Funny

Sheeez, I can't even get OS X running on my Mac. Seriously, it's been in the shop of CompUSA wizards for about a month now. Maybe I'll upgrade to an X-box.

Re:Lucky stiffs by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-06 02:04 · Score: 1, Informative

Make CompUSA compensate you - they are NOT allowed to keep your computer for more than 15 days for service - regardless of the issue.

If they can't fix it they have to return it to you and tell you to go somewhere else.
Re:Lucky stiffs by fafaforza · 2004-10-06 02:20 · Score: 1

Should have sent it back to apple. They usually take no longer than a week to repair stuff.
Re:Lucky stiffs by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-06 03:53 · Score: 1, Funny

"CompUSA wizards"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Compusa is the absolute bottom feeder of all tech.

you would have had better luck giving it to a random person on the street.

Holy crap man... what's next... you trust the "techs" at best buy??

Oh the irony! by bLindmOnkey · 2004-10-06 01:58 · Score: 1

and so the MSFBI was founded to take a bite out of crime(no pun intended)

Not really what it seems by Geldon · 2004-10-06 01:59 · Score: 3, Interesting

Once Xebian is installed they compile PearPC

In other words, they are emulating a Mac for it. That is like me telling people I got my Xbox to play SNES Games when all I am really doing is pulling up an SNES emulator on my xbox with Linux.

Re:Not really what it seems by rainman_bc · 2004-10-06 02:11 · Score: 1

You've just probably inspired a nerd somewhere to throw zelda on an xbox.

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09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Re:Not really what it seems by civilizedINTENSITY · 2004-10-06 02:38 · Score: 1

Well yeah. If you pulled up an SNES emulator on your xbox with Linux, they you would indeed have gotten your "Xbox to play SNES Games". The "when all I am really doing..." is really just explaining HOW. Its still cool.
Re:Not really what it seems by Jagasian · 2004-10-06 03:12 · Score: 1

Actually the Xbox has a native port of the SNES emulator SNES9x. The port is called xSNES9x. However, I prefer the real thing to emulation in its current state (both ZSNES and SNES9x are far from perfect). Other consoles are emulated much better, such as the NES, which is nearly perfectly emulated by FCE Ultra.
Re:Not really what it seems by Krach42 · 2004-10-06 05:16 · Score: 3, Informative

"That is like me telling people I got my Xbox to play SNES Games when all I am really doing is pulling up an SNES emulator on my xbox with Linux."

So, your X-Box _WOULD_ be playing SNES games. Are you confused as to exactly how emulation works?

--

I am unamerican, and proud of it!
Re:Not really what it seems by Jagasian · 2004-10-06 07:15 · Score: 1

Most of the DPS1 games, such as Super Mario Kart. The developers are working on pixel perfect emulation of the DSP1 chip... so in the future I am sure it will improve. Note that I have a flash cart that allows me to run most SNES roms on a real SNES, even DSP1 games. I also own over 20 original SNES carts and have done side-by-side comparison.

Jumped too soon by jmart · 2004-10-06 02:05 · Score: 1, Funny

And here I went and bought a 12" PowerBook...and I could have used my Xbox all along. Now...I just need to find that 1394 port for my DV editing!

Re:Actually EMULATED on LINUX! by Monokeros · 2004-10-06 02:05 · Score: 5, Informative

How's this for getting your info straight:
They're emulating PPC hardware, they're not emulating OSX.

--
The Statue of Liberty is America's lawn jockey.

caches, just in case by Savves · 2004-10-06 02:06 · Score: 2, Informative

PasteEater writes "The good people over at XBox Scene ? have the scoop. Mac OS X has been successfully installed ? on a modified ? Xbox. What does this mean? Well, it's no Xbox Media Center ? , but it does prove that nerds are at the forefront ? once again!"

thanks to mirrordot.org

Emulated? by Wog · 2004-10-06 02:06 · Score: 5, Insightful

Guess what? I can also run PDP-11 software on my XBox! Or any other operating system, for that matter.

This was done through emulation. The blurb seems to imply that something incredible was accomplished, when all that was done was loading it into an emulator.

It may be pretty funny to see OSX running off an XBox on a TV, but it's hardly usable as it is. Call me when it runs natively.

Nice looking page though! by 0mega · 2004-10-06 02:09 · Score: 1

Slow as heck? Ehh, whatever... but very cool looking page for that site! Cheers, 0mega

good idea but.... by sknja · 2004-10-06 02:11 · Score: 1

As we all know it would never be usable... Hell linux is almost too slow ( for m applications atleast) to run on an xbox... That is withouht the beatuiful ram upgrade to 128MB. Every xbox that does not run games needs the xtra ram.

Re:I wonder... by mlk · 2004-10-06 02:13 · Score: 1

Eap, C64 emus for the XBox exist.

I had a great night some time about round my bros. A host of spanking new XBox games, and we were Rodland'ing :D

--
Wow, I should not post when knackered.

They skirted around 1 legality when they wrote by antifoidulus · 2004-10-06 02:16 · Score: 5, Interesting

the legal section in that in the EULA for OS X it states that you cannot install OS X on any non-Apple hardware(probably due to the whole clone thing that failed miserably), I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, but it's an issue they should have addressed.

--
Monstar L

Re:They skirted around 1 legality when they wrote by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-06 03:59 · Score: 1, Informative

I can't see them doing that, ever. By making their own hardware, they have complete control over the "user experience" that is so highly touted. They know their hardware will be able to handle OSX's graphical decadence, they know that hardware will "just work," etc.
Re:They skirted around 1 legality when they wrote by Krach42 · 2004-10-06 05:14 · Score: 2, Interesting

It's actually Apple _LABELLED_ hardware. Technically, I think it might be possible to get around that by slapping an official Apple logo from Apple on the piece of hardware.

Apple has yet to respond to PearPC at all so far. We'll deal with it when it arrives, then we'll remind them that we didn't do anything but build our emulator toward the documented standards that are freely available on the internet.

--

I am unamerican, and proud of it!
Re:They skirted around 1 legality when they wrote by nuggetman · 2004-10-06 05:28 · Score: 1

This is slightly OT, but couldn't Apple potentially make a lot of money by porting OS X to x86?

No
Apple makes their money off of $1800+ computer sales, not off $130 OS X versions. Take away the incentive to buy that shiny Powerbook or G5 tower and the number of OS X versions wouldn't make up for hte profit loss of not selling the computers.

--
...and that's all there is to it.
Re:They skirted around 1 legality when they wrote by r_benchley · 2004-10-06 05:32 · Score: 1

Apple could potentially make a lot of money by porting OS X to x86 archictecture, but more likely than not, they woud get cornholed when their hardware sales dropped. Apple makes all of their money off of hardware sales. The money that they charge for OS X goes to recoup their development costs; it doesn't actually generate any profit for them. Also, as said here many times before, Apple's closed hardware platform allows them to maintain stability. When you know exactly what type of hardware your software is running on, you can optimize it for stability and speed, instead of trying to support every single motherboard, optical drive, and PCI card on the face of the earth. For Apple to move in Microsoft's territory, they would have to give up the hardware business. Apple would probably be better off coming up with a new licensing agreement so other companies could build Mac clones and not bleed them dry by undercutting their prices.
Re:They skirted around 1 legality when they wrote by Geoffreyerffoeg · 2004-10-06 10:11 · Score: 1

The EULA can say anything, but I'm pretty sure Apple's not going to care, and Apple's the only person who can care about the EULA. The intent of that was probably to be the "nail in the coffin" for the clones.

Emulation is understood to be impractical, rare, and unsupported. These were not characteristics of the clones. The reasons that the clone licenses were terminated will never appear with PearPC-quality emulation. Once we get VirtualPC quality, they may start worrying, but VPC is still rather rare, and I suppose Microsoft doesn't condone using VPC Mac (though it doesn't complain, either).
Re:They skirted around 1 legality when they wrote by tepples · 2004-10-06 16:49 · Score: 1

Nothing you read on Slashdot is legal advice. Consider all Slashdot users to be talking out their goat-hole.

Technically, I think it might be possible to get around that by slapping an official Apple logo from Apple on the piece of hardware.

Apple Legal: "No, that'd be trademark infringement."

However, you could rely on the Ninth Circuit's ruling in Sega v. Accolade and the Magnuson-Moss act, both of which reduce the anticompetitive effect of tying a product to other products identified by brand name.
Re:They skirted around 1 legality when they wrote by Krach42 · 2004-10-06 17:27 · Score: 1

Very true... I wouldn't expect it to hold up in any court.

But of course, Sega v. Accolade protected reverse engineering.

Of course, there's nothing that Apple can do against PearPC itself, because it's built toward the open hardware standards that are freely available on the internet.

I've worked through some code to get OS9 to boot on PearPC, but unfortunately, it drops the error that the Apple Copyright isn't found.

Of course, working around THAT would be illegal by any definition that I know of. So, for the moment, PearPC will not be booting OS9 anytime soon.

--

I am unamerican, and proud of it!
Re:They skirted around 1 legality when they wrote by tepples · 2004-10-06 17:35 · Score: 1

unfortunately, it drops the error that the Apple Copyright isn't found. Of course, working around THAT would be illegal by any definition that I know of.

Not based on how I read Sega v. Accolade.
Re:They skirted around 1 legality when they wrote by Krach42 · 2004-10-07 18:29 · Score: 1

The problem wouldn't be making a work around, the problem would be including Apple's copyright phrase into the program.

Putting "Copyright... Apple" would just not be a good idea by anyone's definition.

Plus, it could be seen as circumventing copyright protection, (as that's exactly what would be being done) and thus, could lead to my prosecution under the DMCA.

Damn the DMCA... :(

--

I am unamerican, and proud of it!

What for? by Mikey-San · 2004-10-06 02:19 · Score: 5, Funny

Why would I want to put Mac OS X on my Xbox? I bought my Xbox to play video games, after all . . .

--
Mikey-San
Karma: +Eleventy billion (mostly affected by watching Celebrity Jeopardy)

Do you smell that? by SengirV · 2004-10-06 02:20 · Score: 3, Insightful

It's the Georgia Tech IT department getting ready to expell a student for having it's systems /.'d You would think that /. would look at the supplied links and do some filtering when it comes to links hosted by a University. But I guess that is asking too much. I hope Ga Tech students enjoy using pencil and paper while their computer systems turn to a pile of molten metal.

--

Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"

Re:Do you smell that? by rebeka+thomas · 2004-10-06 03:32 · Score: 1, Offtopic

But I guess that is asking too much. I hope Ga Tech students enjoy using pencil and paper while their computer systems turn to a pile of molten metal.

Complete myth. Slashdot no more has the ability to 'melt' a server than it does to bring me mac & cheese at 2am.

It may saturate their bandwidth for a few hours (unlikely) or bring one web server's apache processes to more than the server can reliably handle interactively, but nothing melts, catches fire, gets destroyed or otherwise does more than a minor inconvenience.

--
RST
Re:Do you smell that? by poot_rootbeer · 2004-10-06 03:54 · Score: 2, Informative

You would think that /. would look at the supplied links and do some filtering when it comes to links hosted by a University.

Maybe it's different where you went to school, but my university had more available bandwidth than most small companies or ISPs. There's nothing about academia that's inherently more slashdottable than any other type of site.
Re:Do you smell that? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-06 06:02 · Score: 1, Insightful

there network cant handle the load and somehow its slashdots fault?

your one of those people who blames others for all your problems arent you
Re:Do you smell that? by gallavad · 2004-10-06 07:32 · Score: 3, Informative

Nope. Speaking as student at Georgia Tech's College of Computing (where the page in question is being hosted), I can say with confidence that we will easily survive this slashdotting, just as we have the many in the past. The network's not even feeling slow.

Actually, I recall hearing some years ago that Tech actually routes about 25% of the data that passes through Atlanta, so it would take a lot more than slashdot to pull us down, bandwidth-wise.
Re:Do you smell that? by SengirV · 2004-10-06 09:10 · Score: 1

Man, some people just can't take a joke. And as others pointed out, Ga Tech appears that they can handle it. I was just exaggerating/joking to make a point about sending a DOS attack(/. effect) on a University - that's all.

--
Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"

PacMan, Donkey Kong and Tempest Running On A G5 by saddino · 2004-10-06 02:22 · Score: 1

Using PearPC to "run" OS X on an modded X-Box is not groundbreaking, headline worthy or "news for nerds," -- it's just sensationalist BS to drive traffic and push ads.

Re:PacMan, Donkey Kong and Tempest Running On A G5 by erinacht · 2004-10-06 02:27 · Score: 1

ads? use firefox! http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/

Uhh, forefront of what, exactly? by Ikazuchi · 2004-10-06 02:23 · Score: 5, Funny

but it does prove that nerds are at the forefront once again!
Not to sound like a dick, but nerds are at the forefront of what exactly? Nerdiness? Big surprise there folks.

Big surprise...

--
Hitomi Ikazuchi Dragon Clan Barbarian Monk

Re:Uhh, forefront of what, exactly? by Moofie · 2004-10-06 02:39 · Score: 3, Funny

More like Nerdular Nerdence.

--
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!

What it proves by digitalgiblet · 2004-10-06 02:23 · Score: 4, Insightful

"...it does prove that nerds are at the forefront once again!"

What it proves is that there are some people with some serious free-time on their hands...

There seems to be an inordinate focus on hack this, crack that, emulate the other and port an OS to the most outlandishly unlikely hardware possible. (Hey, look! I'm running OS/2 on my toaster!)

As a stunt this is really amazing.

As a project resulting in something useful, it is dubious at best.

I find myself in the same category. I'm just getting into PocketPC programming and my first thoughts are about emulators. Are we so lacking in imagination that we can't come up with any original ideas?

I guess the truth is that almost all the "low hanging fruit" has been picked, and now we must work much harder to come with an original idea. Shoulders of giants, etc, etc.

Just so I don't sound like too much of an old curmudgeon, I will say that it looks like these are students, and it is of course a great learning experience.

Re:What it proves by vettemph · 2004-10-06 11:08 · Score: 1

(Hey, look! I'm running OS/2 on my toaster!)

Wow, that must need on hell of a heatsink!

got any screen shots. :)

--
The government which is strong enough to protect you from everything is strong enough to take everything from you.

Re:cheaper then an Emac by adzoox · 2004-10-06 02:31 · Score: 5, Informative

Actually it's not.

Xbox (as used in this article) with a modded 128MB RAM and larger/faster hard drive + $300 retail (+ mod time)

Xbox = $149
HD = $100
Memory and mod kit = $50
Mac OSX 10.2 (as used in article) = $50
Keyboard = $20
Mouse = $10

Other materials such as soldering iron, wiring, CDs to burn Linux and Pear PC onto = $50

17" Screen or 19" TV $75 (minimum)

At this - you don't get easy wireless, iApps, a combo drive that burn CDs AND view DVDs and minus a whole host of other features.

You can get a nice refurb eMac 1Ghz and sometimes 1.25GHZ directly from Apple for $529 shipped on a regular basis in the special deals section.

--
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny

link bonanza by happyfrogcow · 2004-10-06 02:47 · Score: 5, Funny

jeebus. do we really need a link to the "Revenge of the Nerds" movie?

freaking hypertext junkies... go play on a wiki.

best sales pitch ever! by MachineShedFred · 2004-10-06 02:49 · Score: 1

£200-£300 UKP will get you a crap G3

That is just fantastic! =)

--
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2004-10-06 02:53 · Score: 1

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:It's slashdotted ! Here's the text of the artic by SiO2 · 2004-10-06 02:56 · Score: 3, Funny

Why not just go here?

What happens, though, when mirrordot gets slashdotted?

SiO2

Honestly.. by d_jedi · 2004-10-06 03:00 · Score: 2, Insightful

I fail to see the point.

The XBox hardware is dated now, anyway. You could probably buy all of the components and build yourself an XBox-equivalent PC for about the same price (P3 processor.. GeForce3.. 10GB HD.. not too expensive, nowadays..)

Now, if PearPC would work at decent speeds on recent hardware.. THEN I'd be impressed (I've always wanted to try out OSX, but I'm not going to spend thousands to buy a Mac..)

--
I am the maverick of Slashdot

Re:Honestly.. by hayne · 2004-10-06 03:16 · Score: 4, Informative

(I've always wanted to try out OSX, but I'm not going to spend thousands to buy a Mac..)

How about one thousand? E.g. $799 (eMac) $1099 (iBook) $1299 (iMac)
Re:Honestly.. by d_jedi · 2004-10-06 04:12 · Score: 2, Insightful

OK.. a bit of hyperbole on my part (although in Canada, it really is more like thousands http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/c anadastore/).

The point is, I don't want to buy any new hardware just to run some software. My Athlon64 is running quite fine now, thank you.

--
I am the maverick of Slashdot
Re:Honestly.. by droleary · 2004-10-06 07:44 · Score: 2, Insightful

The point is, I don't want to buy any new hardware just to run some software.

'Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?'
'That depends a good deal on where you want to get to,' said the Cat.
'I don't much care where--' said Alice.
'Then it doesn't matter which way you go,' said the Cat.
'--so long as I get somewhere,' Alice added as an explanation.
'Oh, you're sure to do that,' said the Cat, 'if you only walk long enough.'

That is to say, if you really don't buy hardware to run particular software, a Mac makes as much sense to purchase as a PC. A PC really only has two things going for it: idiots can buy it to run Windows like everyone else, and geeks can buy it in pieces and puzzle it together. So hug your A64 system all you like (I own AMD stock! :-), but if it really was a "walk long enough" purchase, it's kind of sad.
Re:Honestly.. by argent · 2004-10-06 08:02 · Score: 4, Interesting

(I've always wanted to try out OSX, but I'm not going to spend thousands to buy a Mac..)

Old Mac Martin regularly sells G3/233-300 desktops and minitowers for $30-$50 plus shipping, and they run OS X fine. You might want a better video card, and Old World Computing has some PCI Radeon 9200s for under $150, but you could get a feel for it for a lot less.

My Mac at home is one of his, upgraded with a Radeon 7000, a G4/533 CPU (from OWC, again), and a 10/100 ethernet card.

Go to lowendmac.com and subscribe to the swap list, and watch what comes through.

Revenge by Doc+Ruby · 2004-10-06 03:10 · Score: 1

It's not just the X-Prize. Don't you watch the _Daily Show_ with John Stewart? "The nerds win the pennant! The nerds win the pennant! The nerds win the pennant!"

--

--
make install -not war

Re:Debate.. This is why I call the "x box"... by davidsyes · 2004-10-06 03:13 · Score: 1

"THE HEXED BOX!" Now, we've got another reason to refer to it as THE HEXED BOX

--
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"

Screen Shots show the Processor as by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-06 03:16 · Score: 1, Interesting

987mhz G3
i know it says 9x7 G3, but im not sure of the middle number
this isnt possible with pearPC

News Flash by Vlad_Drak · 2004-10-06 03:17 · Score: 2, Funny

Another amazing breakthrough, someone managed to make an XBox function like a cheap, outdated, and under-powered PC. Oh wait, it is a cheap, outdated, and under-powered PC.

WTF by nenolod · 2004-10-06 03:20 · Score: 1

Hardware Hacking whitepapers
Best deals: Hardware Hacking
More Hardware Hacking stories
Emulation (Games) whitepapers
Best deals: Emulation (Games)
More Emulation (Games) stories
OS X whitepapers
Best deals: OS X
More OS X stories
XBox (Games) whitepapers
Best deals: XBox (Games)
More XBox (Games) stories

That doesn't look right.

MAC OS X/Linux Modchips by LogicX · 2004-10-06 03:24 · Score: 2, Informative

After reading the news about the Xbox being able to run OS X you may be asking yourself, "How can I do this as well, what do I need?"

Well, the answer to that question would be that you need to have a Xbox, obviously, and a way to run unsigned code.

In my experiences I have found that www.xbox-modchips.com provides quality tech suport, a good warranty, and overall great prices.

Right now the most Compatible chip in the market is the Xecuter 3 modchip. This can let you run the unsigned code required for a Mac OS X install.

In my opinion though, OS X needs a lot of proccessing power to run it's OS and requires a good bit of memory too, but the 733mhz proccessing power and the 64mb of ram that come with the Xbox may fall short behind on the minimal basis of running OS X on an Xbox.

Linux on the Xbox can do some great things such as, connect to your email server, browse the internet, run Linux apps, and even daisy chain several Xboxes together that are running Linux and make a 10,000 mhz machine. Linux on the Xbox has progressed very far, but how will Mac's OS X hold up like the current Xbox-linux Os's out today?
Only time will tell.

--
May this post be indexed by spiders, and archived for all to see as my Internet epitaph.

Re:MAC OS X/Linux Modchips by bandrzej · 2004-10-06 03:48 · Score: 1

Now just wait for some geek to daisy chain several of their Xboxes together so they can actually run OS X on their Xbox cluster :-)

--
LainTheWired = isgod( int Lain, int denial, float truth)

My money, my copy by bill_mcgonigle · 2004-10-06 03:25 · Score: 1

Apple used to give away System Software. Up 'till System 7.1, IIRC. Now it's $130 every year or so.

I don't see this as any different than buying a DVD. If I want to play the DVD on my linux box that's OK with me, I bought it. The implicit license with CSS scrambling just doesn't make sense.

Same here. I love OSX, but if I paid for it I ought to be able to do with it as I please, if I'm not violating Apple's rights. The "Right to Profit" doesn't count. Does Microsoft stipulate (yet) what kind of hardware you can run XP on?

If Apple wants to start giving away System Software again I'd be willing to reconsider this position.

If Apple's business model is such that part of it's OS R&D costs are built into the machine price and that business model can't work outside of EULA it may be worth their time to reconsider that business model. Apple's only recourse with the current business model is to start suing their users. They'll have to do a new take on the "I fought the law" advertising campaign.

This theme seems to be appearing over and over again, with only the actors changing.

--
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)

Re:My money, my copy by aristotle-dude · 2004-10-06 03:40 · Score: 1

Uh, no you are wrong. That 130 bucks is the upgrade price from any version you have for your mac that you are installing it on. The CD might not check for a previous version but you are violating your license if you install on non apple hardware.
Since all "macs" come with mac OS from the factory, all "macs" are eligible for the upgrade price.

--
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
Re:My money, my copy by bill_mcgonigle · 2004-10-06 03:50 · Score: 1

That 130 bucks is the upgrade price from any version you have

Perhaps you look at it that way, but please point to any reference where it's billed that way. Neither the Apple Store nor Amazon mention "Upgrade" anywhere in the description.

Since all "macs" come with mac OS from the factory, all "macs" are eligible for the upgrade price.

If I had a PowerComputing Mac I could (technically) install OSX with XPostFacto but it wouldn't comply with the EULA, despite there being a valid Mac OS license on the machine. So it's not a matter of upgrade, it's hardware lock-in.

I should have mentioned above - if any of the emulators are using copyrighted Apple ROM, etc., that's a separate issue, but if it's clean-roomed that's legal (+- the INDUCE act).

--
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Re:My money, my copy by Chris+Tucker · 2004-10-06 04:04 · Score: 1

So bill_mcgonigle sez:

"If I had a PowerComputing Mac I could (technically) install OSX with XPostFacto but it wouldn't comply with the EULA, despite there being a valid Mac OS license on the machine. So it's not a matter of upgrade, it's hardware lock-in."

Or lock out, in my case.

I'm running OS 9.2.2 on my PowerMac 5500/225. Any installer/updater past 9.1 will not run on my Mac. Period. It is an "Old World" machine and unsupported by 9.2.

But, thanks to OS 9 Helper , 9.2.2 runs just fine on this old Mac. The 400 Mhz Sonnet G3 processor card just makes it run all the faster.

OS 9.2 has some important bug fixes and improvements, so it's worth the modest effort to get it running on Old World PowerMacs.

--
Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
Re:My money, my copy by feloneous+cat · 2004-10-07 06:13 · Score: 1

Apple used to give away System Software. Up 'till System 7.1, IIRC. Now it's $130 every year or so.

IIRC, that was up until their lawyers said that they had to give it SOME price for it to have value (I believe it has something to do with development and tax reasons... But IANA tax lawyer, so I could be wrong on that one).

Personally, I don't think that $130 is that much for the killer apps that come with OS X. And as much as you want to say "my money, my copy", remember the ONLY thing you bought was the CD and the license -- the software on it was just a little added gratuity.

Funny how people will say "my money, my copy" up until THEY are selling software... they they get kinda' cranky when people are "ripping them off"...

--
IANAL, but I've seen actors play them on TV

[OT] : QEMU by holstein · 2004-10-06 03:29 · Score: 1

As a new owner of an iBook, I'm curious : how well does your Win98 work on it?

Re:[OT] : QEMU by Magic5Ball · 2004-10-06 04:23 · Score: 1

(Not the GP poster...)

On my iBook 800 MHz, W2K on VPC6 feels like W2K on a ~600 MHz P6 core. Win98SE on the same VPC6 feels slower than that for some reason.

--
There are 1.1... kinds of people.
Re:[OT] : QEMU by Ford+Prefect · 2004-10-06 05:18 · Score: 1

(Yes the GP poster...)

I've got it working now, and it's, well, a bit slow. This is on a 933MHz iBook G4. As a vague guess, I'd estimate QEMU on this machine's about equal to a 75MHz Pentium - the 166MHz machine I otherwise use is a lot faster.

It's usable, but I wouldn't recommend it for extended work - all I need it for is quickly testing the compatibility of sites I've built with various Internet Explorer versions. If it displays properly, it's done. QEMU on this machine is probably more than sufficient for that, and it doesn't take too long to boot either.

Unlike the MacOS Xbox of the article. :-)

--
Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?

Duplicate or confirmation ? by da5idnetlimit.com · 2004-10-06 03:32 · Score: 1

Well, there has been this article about the future of the darwin platform...

I just didn't know their next PDA would be Xbox sized 8)

--
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker

Re:Duplicate or confirmation ? by chrish · 2004-10-06 03:44 · Score: 1

For your .sig:
s/Manage/Memorize/

--
- chrish
Re:Duplicate or confirmation ? by rpdillon · 2004-10-06 05:32 · Score: 1

Super OT:

Acronyms don't have to spell anything. See the second definition at merriam-webster.com:

Main Entry: acronym
Pronunciation: 'a-kr&-"nim
Function: noun
Etymology: acr- + -onym
: a word (as NATO, radar, or snafu) formed from the initial letter or letters of each of the successive parts or major parts of a compound term; also : an abbreviation (as FBI) formed from initial letters
Re:Duplicate or confirmation ? by opello · 2004-10-06 17:59 · Score: 1

but technically, if it doesn't make a word, it's an initialism, not an acronym
(by the strictest of definitions ... but nowadays it doesn't mater anyway)
Re:Duplicate or confirmation ? by Golias · 2004-10-06 18:20 · Score: 1

I'll take the US edition of the OED over Webster's any day.

a word formed from the initial letters of other words (e.g. laser, Aids).

-- ORIGIN from Greek akron 'end, tip' + onoma 'name'.

The second use listed by Webster's in incorrect slang. That's the trouble with m-w.com. They are far too quick to add word definitions when misuse becomes a little commonplace, and they seldom take the trouble to point it out when they are reporting a slang usage or regional dialect.

The language evolves fast enough without a major dictionary justifying poor English skills.

Next, I suppose Webster's will be adding "stategery" and "boxen" to their dictionary.

--
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Re:Duplicate or confirmation ? by Myen · 2004-10-06 20:09 · Score: 1

boxen

Dictionary.com also has it; see the first entry, it's credited to Webster.

It's not the machines sense though; appearently something about boxwood.
Re:Duplicate or confirmation ? by Golias · 2004-10-08 04:03 · Score: 1

I meant the geek jargon plural of box, not the wood type.

--
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

Re:What?! by nmk · 2004-10-06 03:36 · Score: 1

you misspelt FUCK.

meta-emulation by superultra · 2004-10-06 03:37 · Score: 1

So the Xbox can run OSX. But can it run OSX running a Dreamcast emulator running an NES emulator?

Mac Os X on XBox 2 at full speed ? by flobo · 2004-10-06 03:37 · Score: 1

When the XBox 2 will come out, it will probably be modded to run Linux, too. Then mac-on-linux http://www.maconlinux.org/ will provide us the cheapest gaming macs ever.

There's no stars. by carbon116 · 2004-10-06 03:46 · Score: 1

Of course it's a hoax, I can't see any stars in those pictures.

--
I'm too cool for a sig.

This is VERY misleading article title ... by thedbp · 2004-10-06 04:05 · Score: 4, Informative

All they did was install OS X via PearPC on Linux running on the XBox. As far as I know:

1. Linux has been running on the XBox for a while.
2. It has already been demonstrated that PearPC can emu PowerPC on x86 and run Mac OS X (albeit slowly)

All they did was give instrux on how to compile PearPC for the XBox, which any seasoned Linux user could have figured out if they tried. Beyond that, wouldn't this be SLOW AS DIRT?!?! Even on a very fast x86 desktop machine, PearPC crawls like a gimp sloth w/ no hind legs. And wouldn't most XBox-Linux users probably also have a faster x86 PC that they could run OS X thru PearPC on?

I fail to see how this is interesting in the slightest. Maybe I'm jaded, but to me it seems there's nothing new here. Please move along ...

Re:This is VERY misleading article title ... by argent · 2004-10-06 07:56 · Score: 1

I agree, my first reaction was that it was native on the Power PC, then I remembered that it's the Xbox-2 that's going to be PPC-based.

Beyond that, wouldn't this be SLOW AS DIRT?!?!

10 hours for a Mac OS X install is pretty damn long. The slowest i managed was 10.1 on a 132 MHz 604e, with less than minimum required memory so I'm sure it was struggling even to run, and that took 20 hours. I suspect that "slow as dirt" is an understatement.

And they modified it how??? by Nom+du+Keyboard · 2004-10-06 04:07 · Score: 1

on a modified Xbox.

And they modified it how? By installing a PPC-970 mod chip perhaps??

--
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."

Gaming macs? by MarkVVV · 2004-10-06 04:07 · Score: 1

In other new, hell has just frozen over.

Wait for XBox 2 by Nom+du+Keyboard · 2004-10-06 04:14 · Score: 1

This should be even easier -- and faster -- on XBox 2, with it's plethora of PPC derived processors.

--
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."

http://www.apple.com/games by thedbp · 2004-10-06 04:17 · Score: 1, Insightful

Games run just fine on Mac OS X and modern Macs have plenty good hardware for casual gamers (the iMac) or serious gamers (PowerMac G5). Apple even has a website devoted to gaming. Most modern games are released for Mac OS X as well as Windows. Your argument is SOOOOOO 1996.

http://www.apple.com/games

Re:http://www.apple.com/games by prockcore · 2004-10-06 13:37 · Score: 1

Most modern games are released for Mac OS X as well as Windows.

That's not true at all.. you could say "some" modern games are released for OSX as well as Windows but not most.

In fact, it's fair to say there are more games released for both consoles and PC than both PC and mac.
Re:http://www.apple.com/games by tepples · 2004-10-06 17:00 · Score: 1

Most modern games are released for Mac OS X as well as Windows.

Name one Valve game that works on a Mac without using Microsoft Virtual PC. People don't want "most" games; they want specific titles, and at one time, Half-Life and its mods sold Windows boxes the same way that Street Fighter II and Donkey Kong Country sold Super NES consoles.

Re:It's slashdotted ! Here's the text of the artic by momerath2003 · 2004-10-06 04:33 · Score: 1

Why not just go here?

Did you not notice the background?!

--
I had but a simple dream, to destroy all humans.

screen sizes by morcheeba · 2004-10-06 04:53 · Score: 1

I'm going to somewhat second that. It seems something funny is going on, maybe explainable, maybe not. Compare this pic with this pic (using a tabbed browser helps a lot). Why are the menu bars totally different sizes when the resolution of each picture is the same?

--
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets

Re:screen sizes by oscast · 2004-10-06 05:28 · Score: 1

The reason is because one is an OS X installation screen (which requires a boot from the CD... thus making the resolution go down) and the other is a screen shot of the standard desktop booted from the hard drive.... which allows the resolution to be set by the user.
Re:screen sizes by morcheeba · 2004-10-06 10:32 · Score: 1

I thought of that, but then I thought the size of the screenshot should change, too. Does PearPC do resizing? It's a non-integral factor, so that's pretty sophisiticated. Otherwise, did the author do it (& why)? It just seems a bit funny, but not enough to discredit it.

--
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets

we run 10.2 on 64MB 300MHz iBooks... by jpellino · 2004-10-06 04:54 · Score: 1

it's not a screamer, but it works. 10.3 needs 128 of physical ram, so it looks doable, but i'd like to see the about screen and a run of Apple System Profiler...

--
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."

Re:we run 10.2 on 64MB 300MHz iBooks... by argent · 2004-10-06 07:58 · Score: 1

Can you run the install on 64M? The least i've run the install on is 96M and it was agonizing.

The 300MHz G3 is pretty fast, though. This emulated box was probably more like a G3/50.
Re:we run 10.2 on 64MB 300MHz iBooks... by jpellino · 2004-10-06 13:13 · Score: 1

yes we can install on jaguar, but panther demands 128...

part of the trick is to not do the additional languages, bsd subsystem, all the fonts, and all the printers - really speeds things up - these are machines for kids and teachers to borrow for surfing, email, appleworks, basic stuff.

--
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."

Intriguing, but not ultimately impressing. by WWWWolf · 2004-10-06 05:09 · Score: 1

Okay, I was first confused as hell, but then I noted it was just Linux, emulator, and a bit of tinkering. It was clever, but not really that clever.

So, I suppose a GameCube would run OSX faster than XBox, or maybe we'll just need to wait for XBox2... PPC processor is pretty much needed anyway =)

How closed it the Apple platform? by rekoil · 2004-10-06 05:29 · Score: 1

The existence of PearPC in general brings up an interesting thought...if it's possible to create a software emulation of a Mac, what's stopping someone from creating a PowerPC-based Mac clone? It would appear that the proprietary "Apple ROM" that prevented cloning in the past is no longer an issue. I'm guessing the barrier here is less technical and more financial...

Re:How closed it the Apple platform? by Ancient+Devices+King · 2004-10-06 11:57 · Score: 2, Insightful

There's no ROM of that kind in Macs anymore. That's the difference between New World Rom (original iMac and newer) and Old World Rom Macs. It's all in OpenFirmware now. And the barrier now is legal. You're not (techncially) allowed to install MacOS on anything Apple didn't make. They're not going to press it with some college students screwing around, but they probably would if someone started selling unlicensed clones.

--
-"It seems like you're trying to exploit a security hole. Would you like help?"

To split a fine hair... by Barlo_Mung_42 · 2004-10-06 05:32 · Score: 1

Technically it is installed on top of an emulator which is software. It's the emulator that talks to the hardware so one could argue that it doesn't go against the EULA.

Why would you want to do this WITHOUT by crovira · 2004-10-06 05:39 · Score: 1

being able to run SoftwareUpdate?

'Cause you're cheap?

Just bite the bullet, buy a friggin' Mac and get the more important parts (or the defective parts) kept up to date free from/by Apple.

--
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.

Yes Turing was right and any computer ... by crovira · 2004-10-06 05:47 · Score: 2, Insightful

can emulate any other computer.

We have known this for over half a century.

It's been done and but I wonder if it was worthwhile distraction from doing real work.

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MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.

How many times am I going to read this story? by nobodyman · 2004-10-06 06:13 · Score: 1

Okay, the system can be modded to run any x86 code you want. WE KNOW THIS ALREADY. You can install linux, windows, and whatever else that will fit in the ram (which is 128MB, seeing as how we've hacked the memory limit too) With this in mind, how many times are we going to see the same damn story over and over again?

"They've got QUICKEN running on Xbox!? OMFG!!!"

Sorry, not interested anymore.

Now all we need is... by macserv · 2004-10-06 06:16 · Score: 2, Funny

...a really huge, black, uncomfortable mouse with several unreachable buttons.

Egads! by ztwilight · 2004-10-06 06:41 · Score: 2, Funny

It's a travesty! If Apple doesn't sue, I'll sue myself! It's an insult to the Mac!

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Re:cheaper then an Emac by Jagasian · 2004-10-06 07:12 · Score: 1

You can use a software based mod using the UDE Installer, which is free and works on all Xboxs... it is also easier to do than a physical mod chip. It has the same effectiveness as a mod chip. Also, the new harddrive is not needed.

Refurb Xbox: $100
Mac OSX: $12
Keyboard: $2
Mouse: $2
Refurb 19inch CRT: $50

TOTAL = $166

So depending on how you cook the books, the Xbox solution can look far less expensive than a Mac.

Re:cheaper then an Emac by adzoox · 2004-10-06 07:51 · Score: 1

You left out the fact this is NOT a normal Xbox - it has 128MB MOD on it.

The xbox used here was physically modded. The unit had the processor doubled (also a mod)

The upgraded HD IS necessary to squeeze just a tad more performance. PearPC is unuseable on anything this slow (even the mod)

Your keyboard, mouse, and monitor totals are not commonly available at those prices.

The original article stated that we could just buy an xbox off the shelf and have a cheap mac. (This is also what the parent here was implying) - with tool and supply cost, time, parts costs, and feature comparison the emac is Under $600 shipped with 5 minutes of time involved (an can play Hal, Madden, Quake, and Doom 3 [soon] I might add)

The modded Xbox - done properly (as your emlation on top of an emulation doesn't work) is about $550 and that's if you find low reasonable commonly available prices.

Plus, saying that the PearPC/XBox Mac is anywhere close to a 1Ghz eMac is just downright heresy - it's not even compareable in speed to a 1st generation iMac.

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Depends on what you mean by "almost unusable". by argent · 2004-10-06 07:52 · Score: 3, Interesting

Depends on what you mean by "almost unusable".

The slowest machine I've installed Mac OS X on is a Power PC 604e at 132 MHz. It took 20 hours to complete the install. The resulting system was responsive enough in a Terminal window, but even pulling down a menu took tens of seconds. I wouldn't call it "usable". Mac OS X is optimised for the G3, and later versions than the one I tried (10.1) won't even run on a 604e.

On a G3/233 it took an hour or so, and it was usable.

If they took 10 hours on an Xbox with 128MB of simulated RAM, then they're emulating a G3 that's performing like a 604e... it may be a bit faster than my 604e/132, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Usability is in the eye of the beholder.

pearPC was almost unuseable on a machine below 2.5 GHz

10 hours for a Mac OS X install? Yeh. That's a good definition of "almost unusable".

Wake me up when they do it on the Power PC based Xbox-2.

Oh, and the speed the "About" box reports is totally unreliable, particularly on an emulator.

Re:Depends on what you mean by "almost unusable". by bursch-X · 2004-10-06 15:17 · Score: 1

Even if you use PostFactoX to install OS X on unsupported hardware your Mac must have a G3 or later to run OS X. I don't think OS X (even 10.1) will run on a 604.

You might have installed OS X with PostFactoX on a 7500/7600 with a G3 upgrade card, but then it's not a 604 anymore.

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Re:Depends on what you mean by "almost unusable". by argent · 2004-10-06 23:16 · Score: 1

your Mac must have a G3 or later to run OS X. I don't think OS X (even 10.1) will run on a 604

I would recommend googling before making an assertion like that. Or at least checked your XPostFacto documentation... because OS X through 10.1.5 will indeed run on a 604e once Ryan Rempel's clever little tricks are invoked.
Re:Depends on what you mean by "almost unusable". by Xyde · 2004-10-07 04:19 · Score: 1

That's strange - I think there may be something wrong with your system. I installed 10.1 on a 604/120 (a 7300 with a 120mhz card in it) and the install only took about 90 minutes. From a 4x SCSI cd-rom drive at that, too. How much RAM did you have installed? mine had 96mb.
Re:Depends on what you mean by "almost unusable". by argent · 2004-10-07 05:52 · Score: 1

I believe I had 112M when I was doing the 10.1 install. I don't recall which version of 10.1 I started with, but it was an iMac version, not retail.

The version of XPostFacto could also make a difference, maybe? This was over a year ago (the system's behind me right now and it's been running on a Sonnet G3/400 since shortly after the 10.1 adventure... the performance improvement was profound), so the latest version was almost certainly XPF 2.2.5.

I think we're agreed that a PPC that takes 10 hours to install OSX is not going to provide what most people would call "usable performance". :)

Re:It's slashdotted ! Here's the text of the artic by owlstead · 2004-10-06 09:04 · Score: 1

What happens, though, when mirrordot gets slashdotted?

Simple, somebody launches mirrormirrordot...

Apple or Pear? by ZhuLien · 2004-10-06 15:11 · Score: 1

Does that make the XBox an Apple or a Pear?

Re:Apple or Pear? by Theaetetus · 2004-10-07 01:46 · Score: 3, Funny

Does that make the XBox an Apple or a Pear?
Oh, I think it's pretty well been established that it's a lemon.

XB2 has a hard drive, and it's called my PC by tepples · 2004-10-06 16:31 · Score: 1

The current Xbox console has an Ethernet jack. There exist hard drives that connect to TCP/IP/Ethernet; these use various network attached storage protocols such as iSCSI, NFS, CIFS, etc. Assuming that somebody does figure out how to mod the Xbox 2 to run arbitrary code, would it be so hard to port Darwin and tell it to mount such a network filesystem?

Re:XB2 has a hard drive, and it's called my PC by NatasRevol · 2004-10-07 02:23 · Score: 1

Mac OS X can very easily boot from a remote (via the network) server. It's called NetBoot. The entire boot drive image resides on the server, so you'd only need to put the OpenFirmware package on the XBox.

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"If" was correct by tepples · 2004-10-06 16:35 · Score: 3, Interesting

If? When GNU/Linux gets ported to the XBOX2

"When"? The whole purpose of this Palladium/NGSCB/TCPA/Nexus thing is so that Xbox 2 doesn't get cracked and turned into a GNU/LinuXbox. Even without a full Treacherous Computing setup and with just the separation of executable and writable pages similar to that introduced in Windows XP SP2, version 2 of the so-called Windows XB can prevent MechInstaller style exploits from overwriting the kernel.

Bootloader? That'll be hard by tepples · 2004-10-06 16:39 · Score: 1

Install some kind of bootloader on the XBox2.

Now that Microsoft has developed a form of separation of executable and writable memory areas, as implemented in Windows XP Service Pack 2, you're not going to see MechInstaller type bootloaders for Xbox 2 real soon.

You butt pirate :-) by tepples · 2004-10-06 16:42 · Score: 1

So, your X-Box _WOULD_ be playing SNES games. Are you confused as to exactly how emulation works?

Through ROM piracy? Or did you dump your Game Paks yourself?

Re:You butt pirate :-) by Krach42 · 2004-10-06 17:29 · Score: 1

In this hypothetical environment of which I'm speaking of... yes.

*shifty eyes* Maybe...

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Why VPC for Power Mac G5 was delayed by tepples · 2004-10-06 16:58 · Score: 1

and I suppose Microsoft doesn't condone using VPC Mac (though it doesn't complain, either).

Microsoft makes Virtual PC, having bought maintainership of the product line from Connectix. It took a while for Microsoft to work around the limitation of the PowerPC G5 architecture, which removed the instructions that load and store integers in Intel's little-endian byte order. It takes a bit trickier recompilation to account for that, especially in the variable-length instruction coding of x86 as opposed to the fixed-length instruction coding of ARM, Alpha, MIPS, PPC, and pretty much every other common 32- or 64-bit architecture.

Bizarre 'OS A on platform B' craze by lukestuts · 2004-10-06 22:39 · Score: 1

What is it with these people? I'm sure that in a couple of months, someone will have installed linux on a tree or something. I'm all in favour of pushing the boundaries of technology but a Mac that played XBox games would be a hell of a lot more useful than an XBox with stripey window bars.

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