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FDA Approves Implantable RFID for Patients
anzha writes "It seems that the FDA has approved an RFID tag for use in patients. The idea being that the rice grain sized chip would be implanted and scanned for patient history and updates. It seems that a similar chip was used by the Mexican government for employees that work with sensitive documents. IDK about you, but this seems a to me little...creepy."
Anyone care to explain how this affects my rights online?
This would be a great idea for our beleagured borders where there are not enough police. The communications stuff is great as well. But, mostly, I like the idea of the level of security you can get with such a system. I do hope that safeguards are put in place to avoid abuse.
http://www.busyweather.com/
My grandfathers defib has information stored on it, although I'm not sure its it's RFID.
Repent, the end is near.
Can't I just keep it in my wallet or embedded in my shoes or on my car keys or something?
...because we can all trust the government in everything, and they would never hurt us or do anything against the law *cough* *Cough* Iran-Contra *cough* *cough*
I don't see it as any more of a risk than having a database of your medical history on file for your doctors to see. This just serves as a convenient way to find the database entry. Hackers probably already have all your medical history from a hospital with bad security.
Ask and Discuss your HTML and other web dev stuff
I don't care about the advantages, that's some seriously creepy stuff. I'm never eager to jump and say "LOOK! THAT THING/PERSON IS RUNNING AWAY WITH OUR RIGHTS!", but RFIDs still scare me..
Could someone help me out? I don't know what IDK means.
-Erwos
Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
Biblically speaking, one could draw all types of claims of it being evil. I'm not making these claims, just saying they've been voiced before.
I will claim to have been spoken to by God though:
www.geocities.com/James_Sager_PA/love3.html
God spoke to me
...So I go to hospital, and one of these RFID tags is implanted within me.
Next time I visit doctor/hospital, what restrictions are there on info from "my" tag being read? Two possible options I can see:
- everyone can read my info, and now I have to worry about my health info being scanned by everyone with any remote interest in it. Get on a plane - *SCAN*; "Sorry sir, we believe your heart may give out on this flight and we don't want any lawsuits". Go to a job interview - *SCAN*; "Sorry but we won't employ someone with your health problems"
- nobody can read my info except for readers authorised by the single company controlling the implants. Hmm, now I wonder how they could conceivably abuse that information...
Thanks, but no thanks - I'll take my chances with anonymity. The possibilities of abuse of this technology are just too high
Gives a new meaning to getting a "virus".
while an interesting idea in itself, I hope it doesnt get expanded to something more.... complete. I.e. I hope that it doesnt evolve into "well, we already have chips in people, lets expand it to be a national ID".
as is however, this makes sense. keeping your medical history on a chip could definately help in emergencys and such involving people with various conditions. I wonder if things like defrib and such would affect the chip though...
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
I for one welcome our new rice grain sized overlords
Just think of all the other wonderful uses once the technology becomes more widely accepted...
No more lines at the airport for people with the chip!
metal detectors augmented with RFID scanning / live reporting / updating tools...
"I'm sorry, sir... you are not allowed on the plane. It says here you use something called Linux, and apparently that's only used for pirating copies of window$, making you a terrorist. This transaction has also just been added to your RFID file. Have a nice day"
This is not the greatest
Problem is that part of the ideals that this country was founded on included the idea that the government was required to leave you alone unless they suspected you of doing something illegal. Giving the government, or any private organization the ability to monitor you (whether at a hospital or not -- for any reason, any place) with a technology that has an immense potential for misuse is quite a scary idea.
That's why the "If you've nothing to hide, you don't need to worry" line doesn't fly with me -- maybe if we lived in communist Russia, it would be a different story -- this is the US, and my freedom is important to me.
By itself, this seems like it could be a great idea with huge potential, but it's another drop in the bucket, if you ask me...
And how about for standard ID? I'm sure it will be eventually, but I doubt any time really soon. Eventually I think this will be key to a totally cashless society. Maybe even keyless, or anything that requires a key/identification etc etc.
oh and I'll throw in the end is near for good measure :)
George Bush is president and now a branch of government is talking about marking people?
See? I told you all he was the antichrist.
The biblical verse quoted has NOTHING to do with a "cashless" society. Cash or no cash, such a "mark" could be used in any case. It is completely out of context.
In Soviet Russia, government implant chip in you!
Er... Wait a minute.
I know what's on the bracelet 'cos I can read it.
I know who else is reading my bracelet 'cos they're standing right next to me.
I can remove the bracelet when I go home.
Many people use serious medications that could interact badly with other drug or they have critical medical conditions that affect treatment. In an accident, the EMTs need to know who you are without fumbling around for a wallet or purse (that may have been flung from the car) or jumbled if there are multiple people in the car. Even a med alert bracelet is only as good as it is secure on the wrist. An RFID implant and scanner makes it less likely that you will be separated for your ID.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
How about an RFID that can be used as a credit card?
It would be so much more convenient than having to carry a credit card, worry about dropping it, or not having it (e.g. you are ordering drinks poolside). One wouldn't need cash either.
Implantation in the hand would be more convenient, one could just wave it over a scanner at a supermarket.
More details available here.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
There is no central healthcare database. Having worked for the largest chain of hospitals in the world (was Columbia, now called HCA), I know firsthand that medical data is not shared between an entire chain of hospitals, let alone hospitals outside of their influence.
So what's the point in having an ID number imbedded in the patient via RFID, or having it tattooed on their forehead, etc, if it does not mean anything outside of a specific hospital or market? How is this better than a patient carrying a Social Security card? The only thing that comes to mind is to help track drug seekers that go from ER to ER. However these aren't exactly the type of people that would volunteer to be tagged like a wild animal.
Dan East
Better known as 318230.
I'd think that you'd want as much medical information in the hands of your doctors as possible.
For example, if you're allergic to something like penicillin they could read that from your implant instead of attempting to somehow elicit it out of your unconcious body.
Likewise, if you have AIDS but didn't tell anyone the hospital would probably treat you differently, given that you might have a whole slew of daily meds in your system that might interact with whatever they were planning to do with you.
Of course, the downside is that it might tell them that you've been to the ER fifteen times complaining about the same thing, but all that would be in your paper file anyway.
Could law enforcement abuse it? Probably. But those guys don't have a lot of free time, and what free time they have won't be used scannning random individuals.
That, and I have a pocketknife.
The true context does involve a "cashless society" of some sort... after all, what else would verse #17 mean if "no one may but or sell except one who has the mark"???
For those that think this is a bad thing, don't blame the FDA. The FDA's only job should be to ensure medical safety, that unsafe products don't harm people, not to prevent the abusive use of a product which is not intriniscally bad. It is the use of the product which can be bad. Isn't that the argument you use in stating P2P software should stay legal?
Saying the FDA should ban this technology because it can be abused is like saying they should ban cough syrup because of DXM abuse or that the MPAA should ban Linux DVD software because it can be used by movie pirates, or that the RIAA should be able to ban P2P software because someone could use it to distribute a billion copies of the latest Britney Spears album.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
Well, it's not evil at all. It's technology, which has no inherent moral value. It just is.
But, what I was originally going to point out... I can see this being useful for nursing homes. Tracking patient movement, on-the-spot checking for correct medication, etc. Especially for victims of Alzheimers, who don't know who you are, where they are, and are quite befuddled over just what to do.
Dump the IRS - http://www.fairtax.org
If I come to the scene of an accident and the victim has already lost consciousness, if they are wearing a dog tag, I have a clue about allergies or health problems and even the possibility of an identity.
If all this information is put on a grain of sand that is installed somewhere under the skin, I need special equipment to get the information.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Wont protect me from this one...
Any one know where I can get a tin foil track suit?
Curious to know what happens when you die, and the info is transferred to some kind of database anyways. Or what if it becomes damaged during death (explosion, radiation, etc) and that data is lost (nevermind your soul).
Whatever is created can also be hacked. That's both scary and liberating at the same time. I'm used to incompetence on a daily basis from every person I deal with, from the grocer, to my friendly neighborhood hospital. We're human, and I make mistakes as much as the nex guy. Technology isn't going to solve these problems, but I can see the mistakes being more severe. We're on our way to being slaves to data.. I wonder how close we are to the 20,000 year cycle, and if our number close to being up. Take that as you will ;)
And putting an RFID tag in the bracelet is the right thing to do. You get all the advantages of the RFID and the patient can remove it when they go home.
No freakin implants required.
Exactly
Have an elderly person around the house? Can't afford to put them in a home? Don't have any relatives who will take him in?
Then get...The invisible leash!
Using the RFID tag in the subject, it locates him or her as he/she makes an escape for freedom, then applies a mild, 30,000 volt shock to gently remind them that you care.
Warning This device may be affected and triggered by many garage door openers, WIFI hot spots, and thunderstorms. Not recomended for those wearing underwire bras, or pacemakers.
I don't exactly remember it, but its close enough. Borrowed from the Bob and Tom radio show
That would work right up to the MRI. Then it would be slag.
Well, much as this hackles my tin foil hat side, I'll simply say I will be making a microwave gun to cook that sucker if I can't dig it out with an Xacto blade. Heebie Jeebies. 1984 is now.
Drop me a line at:
Key ID: 0x54D1D809
IDK about you, but this seems a to me little...creepy.
Possible side-effects include:
Using silly acronyms where there are no need for any, and misplacing single-letter articles by as much as two words.
I do, but then again I'm not a total pussy.
According to the theology of some fundamentalist (and often Republican) Christians, this essentially constitutes the "mark of the Beast."
They consider this to be "evil."
Won't they try to combat it?
I think another use that will come along would be for field agents to have a small amount of poison in them, and have it remotely released if they were captured.
First and foremost being, NEVER read the referenced article. Always spout comments that are as apocalyptic as possible before clicking throught the link(s).
Think UPC code. The identifier, emblazoned on a food item, brings up its name and price on the cashier's screen.
The VeriChip itself contains no medical records, just codes that can be scanned, and revealed, in a doctor's office or hospital. With that code, the health providers can unlock that portion of a secure database that holds that person's medical information, including allergies and prior treatment. The electronic database, not the chip, would be updated with each medical visit.
"Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs." P.J. O'Rourke
*cough cough* Surely you can think of a more recent example *cough cough*
It's just an ID tag. That's ALL. It has NO history information saved on it. It just uniquely identifies the "wearer" for purposes of database lookups. Odds are that EMT'z will be the last thing linked remotely into the hospital LAN to look up the pertinent records.
Basically it's an armband that can't get lost, swapped, etc.
"Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs." P.J. O'Rourke
Basically, it's a replacement for the cheesy lil armbands.
It won't get torn off, or swapped accidentally, or on purpose.
It's just a unique tag for a patient that reduces the odds of it getting scrambled around in any way.
"Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs." P.J. O'Rourke
sorry - couldn't resist: Those who sacrifice liberty for security obtain neither.
Stay tuned for new sig...
I've just checked, and no one seems to have linked to the earlier Slashdot article about the Mexican government employees yet.
That article is here.
Read the linked article.
It's a unique ID tag. That's ALL.
The chip won't have ANY data other than "who" you are. And to get any additional data you have to link into the hospital records.
And the police don't have a chance of getting in to those records thanks to privacy laws on medical records.
STOP THE FEARMONGERING.
It's a paper bracelet with your name on it. That's all. You just won't lose this one.
"Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs." P.J. O'Rourke
obviously. no one in the FDA has read the Left Behind Series-http://www.leftbehind.com/
News flash.
Any hospital you've ever visited already has a unique ID (your SSN) linked to you.
"Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs." P.J. O'Rourke
I am a Christian and even I thought (foolishly) for many years this was somehow avoidable. It seems it's not and the prophecies do appear to be coming true. Those that reject the mark will suffer unimaginably at the hands of 'the beast'. DO NOT take the mark in any way, shape, form or guise. Other things to watch for, 1 leader who will control the world and resumption of blood sacrifice on the temple mount in Israel - possibly not in that order.
As soon as it crosses the line from voluntary to involuntary, we have a HUGE problem. I believe it could reach involuntary if enough people voluntarily receive the microchips. It's like, "Oh, almost everyone is doing it, so there won't be much public outcry if we force the non-compliant to do it too."
Sadist makes or buys a hacked reader and gets a job at a restaurant. Said person walks through restaurant collecting RFID info from the people who have these chips.
Said sadist then uses information on food/drug allergies to plant said materials in patron's food.
The result? Lots of sick or dead patrons.
yes I could, but I'm busy with shitloads of homework, so I can't be bothered.
this country was founded on included the idea that the government was required to leave you alone unless they suspected you of doing something illegal
They've since passed enough incoherant and irrational laws that they can reasonably expect you to have broken one of them at any given time.
this is the US, and my freedom is important to me
Freedom...that's SO 20th century. Be a good patriot: Worry about terrorists, support your president.
Sigh...
You can't take the sky from me...
Anyone remember that old apocalpyse movie from the 60's (I think...) that attempted to document the Bible's book of Revelations? The movie introduced the infamous "bar code" that was on everyone's forehead and hand that had the double line at the beginning, middle, and end signifying "666". People always talked about the bar code becoming an electronic chip of some sort. RFID? "Return of the Fallen Imp Devil"? I'm a Christian who always questions things, but this stuff kinda makes you think... :)
--I smoked my sig.
I'm looking forward to the day a doctor tries to scan a medical UPC code and instead gets the RFID tag from the shirt/jeans/watch/etc someone bought at Walmart.... then based on the information amputates a leg.
No thanks.
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Maybe it will be ferrous enough, that the MRI will just remove it for you.
A friend works for the Radiology dept at UCSF and one of the interns there got impaled recently when he took a cart into the MRI room, and just barely got his arm between something ferrous, and the patient.
"Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs." P.J. O'Rourke
Whoo hoo -- bathing in the lambs blood baby!
The laaaaammmmbbbbs bloooood!
The techs been here for ages, lets use barcodes, stamp one of those on everyones forhead instead...
Oh but it has to be hidden, out of sight out of mind, it's not ok to just be ok with big brother, youve got to love big brother, come with us.
a Beowulf cluster of Natalie Portman's Hot Rice-Grain Sized subcutaneously implanted RFID grits imagines YOU!
The debate is going on now and both sides keep talking about all the things we are doing to strengthen homeland security. When will it be time to start questioning whether this makes us more secure? Perhaps doing all this might make us less secure at some point? It's not like 20th century governments have some impeccable record of not abusing their power over their citizens...
Posted anonymously, the chilling effect in action.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
... he said while posting on Slashdot.
this information is strictly voluentary (sp sucks).
I never give out my ss number.
Only for school and my bank. I run my own limited business at the moment with two "secured" credit cards totaling 7.5K in "credit" from my bank.
no one get's that SSN just like no one will get the privlidge of getting this "ID" (wearing a "tin foil" arm band if that's where it is.)
I know who else is reading my bracelet 'cos they're standing right next to me.
Perhaps, but you don't know who has access to that information. I'm sure many other people read the information that is on that bracelet that you don't know about. At least just as many as would read the information on the RFID tag. It will, in fact, be the same people... Doctors. And honestly, I don't know why you would be worried about the government getting your medical records.. you people are so freaking paranoid.
http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Technology-Article.a sp?ArtNum=40
I don't believe the FDA has a mandate to set any moral guidelines (ie saying RFIDs are a "good thing" or a "bad thing"). Same deal when they check abortion drugs etc.
Saying whether to allow RFID as a "good thing" or "bad thing" and should be legal or not is something that congress or whatever do.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Once I'm outa the hospital? You bet your ass I will. Had similar piece of metal/wood lodged under my skin before. Probably encase it in a plastic card like a credit card and stash it in the house in case it becomes "required" *checks tinfoil hat*
... they'd patent it but teh aliens did it first....
What if the RFID tag is implanted (under anaesthetic of course) deep inside your balls (if a man) or ovaries (if a woman)?
Oh but wait--the tonsilectomy and the amputation were inputted by the data entry operator in the front office. That is probably where the B-versus-Z screwup was, and this fantastic automation system probably just makes the staff more confident about any errors.
Isn't efficiency nice.
At least one of the people with actual access to the data (and someone HAS to have access to it), will get pissed off at work, and will snag a few million rows of data (yours, maybe) and ftp/p2p/sneakernet it home. Later, when he gets fired for being an ass, he will sell it to various unsavory characters.
It happened at AOL, it's happened with banks, it's happened with credit card companies.
It will happen.
*cough cough* Iraq *cough cough*
I have gas, but my car uses petrol.
Repton.
They say that only an experienced wizard can do the tengu shuffle.
Sure, why not? I've got a good use for my pellet gun now. I'll load them full of RFID pellets and shoot all the wetbacks the ass.
This is the same thing they have been using on animals for years, it is not an end-of-the-world RFID implementation. Being a former animal control officer, and a right-wing christian, I can say I am familiar with the pros and cons of this technology. I am not concerned about this, there are worse thing out there, and it can even be a good idea in *some* circumstances, but it is not for everyone. Wasn't there news awhile back about somebody figuring out how to make some ink that could print invisible RFID tags on paper? That worries me a bit more. If you want to bring Revelations into this, be concerned about the ink, not the chip.
Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.
Now I'll be able to track down those bastards when they steal my kidneys!
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
But, id just get the help of my buddy Jack Daniels. HEs got bad judgement, and hand eye coordinaion, but when all else fails, hes jsut crazy enough to do this.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
When SSNs first came out, everybody warned about the possibility of abuse for its use as a national number similar to how the nazi's and USSR did
About 20 years ago, it was a huge no-no to use SSNs for doing software, but we did it anyways (actually, I was allowed as I was doing Medical Software in 1985). Then the justice dept cracked down on its use. So everybody switched to Drivers License, but that was considered too much of a national ID.
Now, in the last 3 years, we are required to give SSN's and Drivers Licenses everywhere (bank, jobs, etc). CC companies are now required to give instance access to DOJ whenever they want it. The DOJ has instance access to all tollroads DBs of which cars with tollpass RFIDs are tracking.
The patriot act II (basically passed by both houses and the admin on the day that Sadaam's capture was announced) assures the above and more. (interesting that is was more to DOJ rather than NSA/CIA/NGSA).
And now, the feds want to implant chips in us the same way that I do for my dogs????? Hummmm, Yeah, right.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Quite a number of bars in Europe already do this as a so-called 'VIP-treatment'; get an RFID implanted to pay for your drinks/entry (as in you get debited later on your bank account).
-- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
Peace
I don't know why people get all worked up about it.
1) Passive RFID only works in a very short range. Making it work long range (> 3 feet) involves really expensive (and noticable) equipment.
2) You can easily detect Passive RFID scanners because they send out RF energy.
3) Passive RFID can't be used on crowds (too many tags screws it up)
Active RFID I'd be concerned about. With that you can do stuff like ultra-wideband transmission to avoid noise and interference, yadda yadda yadda. And you can't tell who's listening.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
I wonder if this will ever be used for authentication. Maybe a mouse or keyboard that reads your RFID "tag"? Eh just a thought.
You get all the advantages of the RFID and the patient can remove it when they go home.
Well, not *all* the advantages. With the implanted RFID, when the patient comes into the emergency room later, perhaps unconscious, a scan can pull up the whole medical history and especially any chronic conditions, current medications or other important information.
Whether or not it's worth trading privacy and the discomfort of the implantation process for that safety factor in emergencies is a valid question, though.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
Mmmm, smells like someone is cooking pork.
I...I am a free man!
The reason girls and Windows users don't understand UNIX is because all the documentation is in Man files.
...it's just not any good for actually healing people, only for snooping for insurance purposes.
It's called the MIB, medical information bureau, and if you've had a procedure paid for by an insurance company in the past several years, they know about it and provide that information to requesters on demand. Google for it.
Linux on it?
...some of the plans are to chip the military and police first. Since they are the ones who will be doing the enforcing of any chipping mandates, they will be able to rationalise it to any protesters that "they got the chip, now you need to get it".
Special forces allegedly have this already in some situations (this is hearsay, I have no proof), and there's been more than a few articles I have read about proposals for the police getting it in their hands or wrists to have it tied to smart chips inside their service guns, so only they can fire them. some gun control advocates want this for all firearms and owners in fact, the tech already exists.
but ya, incrementalism will make this happen. Concerned parents wanting their kids chipped in case of kidnapping or terrorism. Prisoners chipped for "security and safety and monitoring" and etc. Patients chipped like in this article. nthose spanish nightclub patrons who got the chip earlier this year for VIP status inside the club. blah blah blah, eventually everyone will fall into a chippable category for some reason or another.
Once enough various random subgroups have it, then it will be almost easy for them to get everyone to do it. There's a variety of possible scenarios I can see where it might occur.
Slippery slope, there's always good and bad in any new technology, but DANG if various governments and other no goodniks always seem to have the uncanny ability to extract "bad" from any situation. That's the only thing ALL governments down through history eventually have in common-the capacity and eventual bent for, well...evil.
Humanity evolves, groupings of humans known as governments always de-evolve.
New, from the brilliant minds that brought you the patriot act, the new V chip for your brain! Now you cant think those nasty thoughts anymore. Any negative thoughts will be replaced by an image of GWB playing in a sunny field surrounded by bunnies.
Regardless of whether these are good(TM) or evil(TM), they seem to be easily removable? Need a new identity, go visit your local back alley surgeon who is more than willing than to provide a chip with someone else's code. Since it's only a code to an entry in a database, you could always just hack the database itself and keep your code. Privacy concerns--on scanning, only life critical information should be released. Further detailed information should only be released with a valid scan AND a user-provided password (provided that they can remember it and it's NOT their birthday). BCNU//jle
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The problem is not even a matter of whether you have the 'balls' to do it. Look at the size of these things. These are smaller than a grain of rice, far smaller than a rice grain.
It is a matter of finding it, and digging through enough flesh until you find it. Ouch, I bet that stings.
Easy in, but not easy out.
Gee, why does this sound so much like Trusted Computing for Hominids??
:/~
In similar schemes, there's Proposition 69 on the fall California state ballot: this would provide for [I quote from the state election info booket]
DNA sampling of
1) all adults and juveniles convicted of any felony offense
2) all adults and juveniles convicted of any sex offense, or of an attempt to commit such an offense (not just felonies)
3) all adults *arrested* for or charges with felony sex offenses, murder, or voluntary manslaguhter (or the attempt to commit such offenses)
4) and starting in 2009, all adults *arrested* for or charge with ANY felony offense.
Which means you go into the state DNA database *whether you're guilty or not*. And while there are provisions supposed to let those found innocent get their sample removed from the database, when have you ever known a gov't to turn loose of any hold it has over its people, once it gets a good grip?
And wouldn't it be easier if everyone was just DNA'd and microchipped at birth, like it or not?
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
this could be a good thing. Two cases come to mind.
They should start at Los Alamos National Lab. Then in the usual five year cycle when another batch of floppies/CD's/hard drives goes missing they can identify the spy/moron that left them out without the usual witch hunt.
They could also tag congresscritters so we can keep track of how little time they actually spend on the job and vote them out or make them refund a percentage of pay for each committee meeting or vote missed.
If we thought our money was spent wisely, we wouldn't bitch about taxes.
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
Well, I hate to be the rapture-monger here, but it should be noted that Palestinians are getting killed every day by the Israeli army (not that I don't support them securing their home), and Bush seems to be trying to become the leader that takes over the world.
I also think that the rapture is a load of bullhonkey, but if it were to happen, can I have your computer?
"No beer until you finish your tequila!" -Leela's Dad
There are other non-invasive possibilities for locating the RFID chip, too, such as a skin patch, or for those with pierced ears, a small earring. The point being that it's removeable, and under the control of the patient.
While it's all well and good to be sure your meds don't get switched with someone else's, this ever-increasing lack of control over our own lives is most definitely not. And an ID implant (however benign) that you can't remove, is not under your control.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
My membership number at the video store is 666 - does that count? I had hoped that this would at least entitle me to rent The Omen for free, but no such luck...
RFID implant removal - for those who reject the mark
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
I only handle cash for stuff under $1, the rest of the time I just use the Interac card from my bank. Makes going to the US wierd cause I have to carry paper money. Canada is, in a practical sense, very close to cashless though I admit nobody has tried to landmark a RFID chip with a 666 tattoo...yet.
The forehead is the visible part of where you remember your social security number, and you can't do much buisness without that. So perhaps one has the option of having the chip, or remembering their SS#.
This is really starting to sound like Gattaca to me. What's to stop them from implanting you with the tag when you get your flu shot, a regular physical? The implications are disturbing, and IMHO greatly over-power the benefits. Also, think of a society like in The Net. Say someone changes your information, you're given the wrong drug and you die. Far, far too creepy for me.
Identity theft just got even more personal...
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Keep in mind that elderly demented people do wander away, causing serious family heartbreak.
Every time I ride the subway I see Missing posters for someone's mother or father that went out the back door and into the neighborhood, somewhere. Some families don't have the resources to watch over their old ones 24/7.
This chip could help reunite demented patients with their families before they end up hurt or dead.
Is there any reason long-term patients can't also use barcode bracelets instead? If it gets damaged/destroyed, oh no -- we print another for $0.10. Big deal.
There's no freedom-supporting justification for anybody using implantable RFIDs, and there is little practical justification for them either.
Is Capitalism Good for the Poor?
The thing is, this is a "paper braclet" that a MACHINE can read and record at a distance of several feet. Currently, it would be very hard for the to track someone even if they knew their ID, but that's just a simple matter of making or enticing RFID manufacturers into recording every unique ID they "see". Now if they want, the government can find out every time you visited your favorite retailer, gassed up your car, etc...
668 The Neighbor of the beast!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Coming soon to a website near you...
1) wardriving human RFID with your PDA
2) How to alter your RFID tag to:
a) get through customs
b) charge your groceries to someone else
c) prove you are of drinking age in the local night club
d) get cool drugs at the hospital
3) Removing your RFID tag with a razor and a cue-cat
4) The George W. Bush RFID conspiracy
5) Track your children using FDA approved RFID implants!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
There is only one reason to put a number on people and that is to seperate them. In hospitals there is good reason to seperate people, even if sometimes that seperation is into one group who gets aid and one who does not (something called triage or discrimenation depending on the criteria being used).
American hospitals still got to get rid of the stigma of segregation, where your color decided what kind if any service you would get. Oh you think that is to long ago? I got news mate, the junior trainee may well be a member of the board now.
Could this possibly be used to determine at the door who you are in an emergency ward? Like say a person with no insurance to pay for the threathment? Who skipped on his last bill? Would doctors still help you knowing that? Don't forget, these are the same doctors who didn't obey their oath when it came to helping those of a different color/religion/etc before.
Current medical bracelets are good enough. If you loose it? Well though mate. Your the patient, take care of yourselve. What next? Wiring your medicine to you body to avoid forgetting your pills?
Funny thing is that americans for all their supposed stupidness actually are questioning this thing. In holland there was a "news" (HAHAA news, that is joke) item on a bar duplicating what been done in italy, a RFID tag as a wallet. The "journalist" never even thought to ask about possible abuse. Neither did any of the recipients. Even those who opted out only did because of the size of the needle.
Europe as mindless slaves tagging people. Oh america, are you ready to come over yet again? Third time is a charm.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Yeah, I think the report Ashcroft put out today said music-stealers are a high-risk group.
Watch band of brothers again. It is a short bit and doesn't get mentioned at all in the last episode where the real soldiers talk. In fact the ep that contained the bit opens with the soldiers talking about how they could be friends with nazis. Oh wait I forgot. The german citizens didn't know. Except that even the dumb GI getting food for the people in the bit knew that wasn't true.
There are plenty of easy arguments for tagging people and of course it is really no different from a social secuirty number or a passport or anything that identifies you. EXCEPT THIS CAN'T BE REMOVED.
Those who try to pacify you with how this wouldn't be abused in a democracy with all kinds of safety's and balances think about this. The person who "ordered" that bit was elected by the people who claimed later they didn't know about that bit. He was supported for almost a decade before the bit was really put into effect. Plenty of time to protest yet none did. The bit didn't affect them. Until things changed and it became better to claim not know about it.
Oh the guy didn't get elected in fair elections? Gee, what guy recently didn't get elected fairly and is apparently doing the same thing again?
There is no secret plot by an evil mastermind to control the world. There is just a bunch of old people who don't see other humans as their equals and the rest who let them.
The potential here is just so great that its use cannot even be considered. Any arguments about how easy it is are 100% correct. Yes it is easy. Easy to lead to a future where we will once again have a series with a bit in it for our childerens childeren to watch. Well those childerens childeren who aren't in the bit.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
If we can make a handcuff that doesn't accidentally slip off the wrist of a criminal, then we can certainly make a medical bracelet that's equally secure. No need for a chip.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
I read from some radio post, that the first thing to boil is the organs with the most water content in them, and for us that would be our eyeballs and our testicles. Well, you first, tell me how it goes, and maybe then I'll try it.
what is this little rice grain made of? metal? sounds a lot like those little stickers inside your dvd movie case that sets off the detector when you're trying to get a copy of the latest "spy kids" re-hash for a reasonable price.
would these things be reprogrammable? would they be able to be rendered useless (like the devices mentioned above)? likely one and/or the other...
could this be used for benign identification such as may be the case in a hospital?
could this be used for identity theft?
could this be used for tracking where you go?
my proposal: why not a rfid ring? it could be given only to those who have a medical condition which ought to be known to the doctors that may handle them.
i, for one, deny admittance into my body such a gross invasion of privacy.
"Have you ever stared at it? Marvel at its beauty, its genius? Billions of people living their lives. Oblivious. Do you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world, with no suffering, where everyone would be happy? It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed that we lacked the programming language to define the perfect world. I believe that as a species, humans define their reality through misery and suffering. The "perfect" world was a dream that their primitive cerebellum tried to awake from. That is why this Matrix was redesigned to the peak of your civilization. Or should I say our civilization? Because as soon as we started thinking for you, it became our civilization."
- Agent Smith, The Matrix
Assuming the VA, as a big hospital provider in the US, would use them... that would make "good" RFID tags really attractive. so if an American goes south, rather than just taking his wallet, they'll want to stab the person to dig up the tag. It is small, so it will take a while to find.
Nursing homes aren't very likely to be using this at all. The reason is cost. The chips may be cheap, but the readers will not be and LANs are still pretty uncommon. (wireless even more so) Most of the nursing homes I deal with won't even use a system of barcodes on wristbands due to expense. (They will also mention that patients are still very sensitive to being "numbered" since there are a good number of holocaust survivors.)
Since most people in the US use Medicare, there just isn't much money in the industry like at a hospital. The rate Medicare pays is not fixed, but close. The salaries of staff, especially therapists are rising fast. This really makes running a tight ship important, but not all do. Nursing homes are the poor house of the medical field, seriously.
Check out the VeriChip FAQ. Also, the ars technica story has some great Bruce Schneier material on the Bush administration's idea for RFID passports.
i just want to play go
I won't get into the ethical implications of this, or how forward-looking it was, or whatever. Instead let me just mention that I saw the video of this piece being performed. OUCH. Guy has stones.
Yes, no?
Let's see:
Christians = "mark of the beast!"
Jews = "too much like the camps!" and besides "we're made in the image of God, who are we to alter that!"
Muslims = "track us in the current political climate in the US? No thanks!"
Libertarians = "guns and rope are still legal, and there are many lampposts along Pennsylvania Ave."
Bill Clinton = "what! There'll be an electronic record of who enters my bedroom?!?"
You get the idea.
-b.
Just give me an aluminum bed slat and a 60 watt bulb, and I could fashion a crude phase to escape any cell the put me in.
It would be useful to track patients within a hospital, to reduce the number of people found weeks later in a closet or some unused section of the building.
The RFID could also help ensure the people receive the correct medicines, and that the correct leg/arm/lung is removed.
Of course, removing the tag becomes a complication
Only if they happen to come into the SAME hospital, or a hospiotal which is linked to the original through a database. A Medic Alert tag with your SSN and major allergies is probably a better bet.
I happen to live in an area with thre competing companies who own the various hospitals. Even if I'm in a car crash close to home I would only have a 33% chance of being rushed to a hosipital which has access to my records. The chance of my wrist being intact when I arrive is much higher.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
First, this is a few years old if I remember, mabye I'm off.
Second, many people are quick to judge the paranoia of the tin foil hat croud. Now, listen here. We've had this move to a paperless society for quite some time, at least 30 years; paperless accounting, paperless ordering, paperless mail, paperless addressing. In time, this has replaced non-paper things, and now we've got cellphone networks and VOIP networks to replace phones, Job automation to replace people. All for what? Convienience!
Now, lets say the FDA says "ok, this'll work for medical patients", because, obviously, if you find someone with no ID in a ditch, and they've got a medical RFID in them, then you can tell who they are, what their allergies are, if they're a diabetic. Ok, great application of technology. For a medical situation like in a hospital, it's invasive and people may have allergic reactions to such tags, so I don't think it'll ever go there.
Then sony decides "you know, we don't like this punch in/out system for our factory workers, and these RFID tags are incredibly cost effective at $.20 a pop. Additionally, they allow us to run an automated door access system, an automated computer access system, all without people getting angry about biometrics".
Now we've got sony, with a glowing sucess story, saying how many million they saved by going over to RFID. Now other companies begin thinking the same way, and all begin tagging. All of a sudden, banks say "hey, you know what? We can tag people for quickie cash transactions". Instead of carrying around a wallet, which can be stolen, you carry around a small implanted computer, all of which relates to a central banking system.
Law enforcement gets involved, standards and practices are put into place, centralised servers are established, and finally, in order to "combat crime", paper money is estinguished.
Now, mabye, just mabye, I'm on crack and I still have cognative skills, but that seems like a likely scenario. All that has to happen is for it to become so commonplace that a majority gets it, and the minority has to come along for the ride or be shut out of society.
Candy-Coated Knowledge
Is it just me or does the quote "One of the big problems in health care has been the medical records situation. So much of it is still on paper" mean nothing. If the records are still on paper how is inserting a harware "cookie" into patients going to help? Don't the records need to be in the computer for this to be effective? Why not just put the records in the computer, and keep using those wrist bands they use in the hospitals. Not too difficult to put a bar code on those. I'd really rather not have an implant.
Sig free since 2/6/2002
Only if they happen to come into the SAME hospital, or a hospiotal which is linked to the original through a database.
There are already discussions among some of the major health care insurers about creating a standards body to define an approach for making emergency medical data accessible to all emergency services providers. If that happens, not only would all of the hospitals be able to get your data, but so would the EMTs, which can actually be more important.
Those discussions are focused on contactless smart card technologies, not RFID, but the concept is similar. The idea with the smart card, of course, would be to use a few kilobytes of on-chip storage so that it would be readable even without access to a database (which also may make a database unnecessary, which is good for privacy). Sticking points, of course, are privacy (HIPAA compliance) and cost. Privacy can be addressed cryptographically, but that creates a key management problem. Public key crypto can make that more manageable, but increases the cost of the cards vs. cards that only do symmetric crypto.
Actually, if it happens, an RFID may be incorporated into the smart card as well, because RFID technology can't provide security, or carry significant amounts of data, but has good range (up to a meter or so) and because contactless smart cards have very short range, but can do the rest. So the card might have an RFID that exists only to announce the presence of the smart card so that emergency personnel know to look for it.
An alternative is to put the smart card chip in a Medic Alert bracelet, but it's thought that most people would probably prefer it be in their health care insurance card.
I haven't heard any insurers talking about implantable RFIDs, and it'll surprise me if they do. Seems like a good way to create suspicion, and people already tend to be suspicious of insurance companies.
A Medic Alert tag with your SSN and major allergies is probably a better bet.
A non-electronic Medic Alert bracelet cannot carry nearly as much information, and can't carry any information that changes frequently, such as current prescriptions. If you are on, say, heparin, the EMTs really need to know it.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
As someone else has already mentioned, what happens when you have some life threatening allergy and your bracelet is either lost or not on for whatever reason, then you get into an accident and are taken to a hospital. That $0.10 bracelet that's no longer with you just might cost you your life. The reason these are being looked at is to prevent losing them. Sure, barcoded braclets may be cheap, but they are also easily lost.
I'm not sure I'd want to get one of these, but it's easy to see many many practical reasons for them.
Also, about your sig. Jury is in there to indicate the judiciary method for causing change and that would include the Supreme Court. You're being redundant. How is SCOTUS a box anyway?
I wasn't even close to suggesting that it had your name, or anything of the sort. Just that it has some way of identifying "you" to some system.
"Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs." P.J. O'Rourke
Thanks to HIPAA it's almost impossible to get at medical records. A friend of mine works at a major medical center, and they have shit locked down even from internal staff.
"Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs." P.J. O'Rourke
You're correct, if someone comes in unconscious, unknown, they scan would provide immediate data.
However, people who have chronic conditions (diabetes, epilepsy, etc.) often wear medical alert bracelets already, these could be adapted to the RFID system.
As far as emergency rooms go, I think that in most cases, their primary concern is to treat the urgent need, once the patient is stable, they can be indentified and put into the system through normal channels. It's only a few cases where important information would be lost, and, as noted above, there are techniques that an individual could use.
...there will be a rally at 0900 to thank Big Brother for increasing chocolate rations to 20 grams.
What's the ugliest part of your body? Some say your nose, some say your toes, but I think it's your mind. -Zappa
Seems excessive. Why not just put it in a ring or bracelet or necklace or earring, etc?
If people can wear wedding rings, they can wear "medic-rings" or somesuch.
Move along, no sig to see here.
Gov Schwarzenegger managed to get his out (the implant, I mean) in _Total Recall_. But then he had that briefcase kit.
Anyway they don't say where they insert it. No reason to put it under the skin when you are in a hospital anyway. Put it inside the ribcage. Good luck then eh?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
On the back of the neck or right out in front, on the forehead. Your choice.
Faith is the key.
Rom.12 [3] For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Each time you sit down on a chair you are using faith. You are trusting that the chair (and by extention, the manufacturer of said chair) will support you and not collapse, subjecting you to possible injury or death.
Let's raise the stakes.
Each time you go out in public and do anything in the capacity of a law-abiding citizen, you are using faith. You are trusting that the other people who are out in public are also law-abiding citizens and will not do aything to you to defraud you, injure you, or kill you. Also, by extension of the chair sitting analogy above, you are also trusting that any and all modes of transportation you use in your travels will not injure you or kill you when you use them or interact with them due to such things as wear and tear, negligence, human error, equipment malfunctions, or--due to 2001-09-11 and other days like it then and now--terrorism.
Let's raise the stakes.
The atheist believes there is no God. After they die, he or she has more to lose if they are wrong than if they are right.
The agnostic believes that it impossible to to know whether there is a God yet does not profess to be an atheist. So these people put God on the 'back burner' so to speak and go about their daily lives. When they die, one of two things happen:
1) If there is no God (per the atheists) they lost nothing and are 'in the nothingness of oblivion where all living things must go to someday....'
2) If there is a God (per the theists) they are in the same position as the atheists who believe there is no God. He or she has more to lose if they are wrong than if they are right.
The theist believes there is a God and has entered a proper relationship with Him per my previous post. He or she has more to gain if they are right than if they are wrong. If they are wrong, they lost nothing and are 'in the nothingness of oblivion where all living things must go to someday....' along with the atheists and the agnostics.
If they are right, they have this to look forward to:
As for people dying and heading off to 'the nothingness of oblivion where all living things must go to someday....' that is, per science and the Bible, NOT the case.
First up, a 'scientific explanation':
Have you ever worn one of those bracelets? They're cheap, but they *are* fairly-strong pieces (they're kind of like a hard-to-tear vinyl, IIRC). People just don't tend to lose them, even when they're drunk.
The often-maligned "SCOTUS box" is the box for the "Supreme Court of the United States." I call it a box, b/c:
1) the Supreme Court is a room in a building, and while I don't know the exact architecture of the building, I'm willing to bet that either the court, or the court building containing the court, is shaped much like a rectangular prism -- a box
2) it's consistent w/ the rest of the quote, which left out the SCOTUS originally
Is Capitalism Good for the Poor?