Metroid Prime 2: Echoes Launches

The sequel to Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime 2: Echoes has been released to consumers. Details on the sequel can be found via a Gamespy hands on look or a Gamespot review. A snip from the review: "If you've played Metroid Prime, you've essentially played Metroid Prime 2. Retro hasn't mucked with the original, winning formula, so veterans of the first game will feel quite at home resuming their position behind Samus' computer-enhanced visor."

Comments

fp

[codergeek42]

w00t

FP

[Veamon]

fp...whoo hooo...

Haven't Played Yet

[ilyanep]

But Metroid has been an awesome series. However, I'm looking forward to the DS game more (already out I believe). Multiplayer!

Re:Haven't Played Yet

[UWC]

I'm looking forward to the DS game more (already out I believe). Multiplayer!

This new GC game also has multiplayer, though I think limited to 4 players on a single TV instead of the DS short-range wireless connection. The upside of the GC one is that only one system is needed, whereas you have to know others with a DS to play that one multiplayer.

And the DS one is not out yet. There's a demo of it that comes with the DS, which will be released on Nov 21, which seems to be a Sunday for some reason.

Re:Haven't Played Yet

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, Why would they put November 21st on a Sunday? What on earth were the calendar people thinking?

Re:Haven't Played Yet

[UWC]

I knew it was oddly phrased, and after typing it I figured I'd let it read that way, as if Nintendo's selection of date were inviolate, and that the calendar should be expected to accommodate the mandate.

Re:Haven't Played Yet

[Queer Boy]

According to NintendoDS.com: "multiple players can play multiplayer games using just one Nintendo DS game card." Even with GBA there are single-pak modes for many multiplayer gamepaks.

Re:Haven't Played Yet

[calethix]

"multiple players can play multiplayer games using just one Nintendo DS game card."

Everything I have read about this says the DS is capable of allowing multiple people to play with a single game card but it's up to the developer as to whether or not they want to allow it. So I'd wait before I get too excited about this aspect.

Re:Haven't Played Yet

[Guppy06]

I've tinkered with the demo in kiosks and... I'm kind of ambivalent about it. I was one of the folks who cried out in horror when I heard Retro was turning Metroid into an FPS, and I was very relieved when I saw that they were right when they called it a "first-person adventure," with a controller interface right out of Zelda: OoT and more focus on exploring than aiming and twitching.

Hunters, though... it's an FPS. I can understand getting rid of (an analog of) L-targeting and the HUD radar for multiplayer games, but it seems that the finished product will also be missing these features from the single-player missions as well. It's as if the game has little point beyond demonstrating that the feel of keyboard-and-mouse control can now be done in a handheld platform.

I'm also a little wary of so much focus being put on multiplayer in a game that I thought was supposed to have a strong emphasis on isolation.

I guess I'll just have to see what happens.

Re:Haven't Played Yet

[Zigg]

There are a lot of problems with the demo kiosks. The biggest problem is the store employees hanging over your shoulders while you try to get a feel for the game, but besides that...

1. The DS has something of a viewing angle issue. You need to look square on a screen to get the best contrast. The unit does have a 180 degree lock, but the kiosks have the unit locked to a lesser angle, and as a result have the top screen at a non-optimal angle for viewing.

2. I'm told by those who have been to events where they had the opportunity that you really need to be able to be holding the system rather than trying to use the stylus on a bolted-down system.

3. The thumb strap control that comes with the DS unit seems to me to be a much more intuitive way to control the look and aiming, rather than the stylus. The stylus seems to me to be more at home with point-control games rather than slide-control games. The thumb strap is unavailable at kiosks (at least right now).

All in all, I'm still kind of wary about Hunters, but based on impressions of those who haven't been to the kiosks, I think it'll probably turn out okay. I'm actually grateful for the demo, so I can decide whether or not I like the game before plunking down money on the full package next year.

Re:Haven't Played Yet

[ilyanep]

Yeah, I think the stylus is a bit annoying when you're trying to control the radar, but aside from anything, Hunters shows you the possibilities on the DS. Multiplayer through wireless. So far the only people who've done this on a handheld specifically (to my knowledge) are the nGage folks (which aren't the best games in the world -- PS1 Games?!)

Re:Haven't Played Yet

[Anonymous Coward]

When did the Slashdot.Games site transform into a PS2/Xbox only fanclub? At least the comment posters are still sane. I didn't think I'd ever miss Simoniker.

HOT NEWS

[stratjakt]

It's almost fucking christmas, a lot of games are launching.

Seriously, chill it with the game launch "stories". We've all known that Halo 2, GTA:SA, and Metroid Prime 2 were coming out.

Unless it's some sort of advertising deal.

Re:HOT NEWS

[Anonymous Coward]

Mod this trash down.

Re:HOT NEWS

[Anonymous Coward]

You just can't please some people...

First, it's people saying "Hey, this isn't news for nerds!" Next, it's people saying "Why so much rehashed nerd-news that can be found in a thousand other places?"

I swear, noone actually knows what Fwapdash is here for: Nerd News, collected from other sites.

In other words, this is exactly the kind of thing that belongs on Slashdot. If you want to gripe, at least whine about the colour scheme or something...

P.S. I didn't know Prime 2 was coming out. Now my need to own a GC has doubled. I still have to own/finish Prime. Goodbye, free time..

Re:HOT NEWS

[mmkkbb]

I'll bet used copies of Prime will be easy to come by. Once you've beaten Hard mode with 100% (well, 98%. Damned if I'm going to check every missile location on the list to see which one I missed) there's not much left :)

Re:HOT NEWS

[PhoenixFlare]

I'll bet used copies of Prime will be easy to come by.

AFAIK, it's part of the Player's Choice lineup now, which means even a new copy should only be $19.99+tax at most. No reason to get it used, really, unless it's only $5 or something.

Re:HOT NEWS

[Capt. Murphy]

And I saw that Target has a bunch of "Player's Choice/Greatest Hits" games for Xbox/GC/PS2 on sale this week for $14.77. Metroid Prime might be on that list too. (the paper didn't specifically say 'all', so they might just be crap games.)

Re:HOT NEWS

[Various Assortments]

The game was released. And slashdot has created a place to talk about it.

Re:HOT NEWS

[AngryUndead]

You don't own a GC... thats really sad. A lot of people bash it for the lack of title selection. I would have to say that owning Metroid Prime, Zelda, the Zelda Collection cd's, some of the Resident Evils, and this new Metroid as well as future Zelda games make the GC quite a good purchase; especially for someone who appreciates finer titles. Kinda like you have to own a PS2 to play good RPGs. Thats changing though.

JUSTIN BAILEY

[Breakfast Pants]

Still no JUSTIN BAILEY leotard code? Dissappointing.

Re:JUSTIN BAILEY

[Shinmizu]

So, have the people that moderated the above as offtopic even played the first Metroid? I suggest you do a search for "JUSTIN BAILEY" and "Metroid."

Re:JUSTIN BAILEY

[Breakfast Pants]

Offtopic my ass. JUSTIN BAILEY was one of the first name other than my own that I learned how to spell. The original Metroid for Nintendo was godly for its time.

Re:JUSTIN BAILEY

[grungebox]

Humorously, when Metroid came out a kid in my kindergarten class (Justin Bailey) said the code was named after him because he wrote so many letters to Nintendo.

Re:JUSTIN BAILEY

[Anonymous Coward]

For the record, the JUSTIN BAILEY password (and its many variants) is almost certainly a complete coincidence. I spent hours reverse-engineering Metroid's password system, and it just so happens that the number of possible passwords (many of which will give the same results, and some of which will do unexpeced things such as locking up the game) is so vast that there are many, many passwords that spell interesting and novel things. In fact, you can put in any password at all, minus the last 2 characters (which encode a checksum) and calculate the final characters to make it valid.

There is one password that is hard-coded into the game, and this can be verified with a string dump[1] of the ROM. The password is "NARPASSWORD" (speculation is that this stands for North American Release Password). Enter this while leaving the remaining characters blank (or equivalently filling them with 0s[2]) to get what I assume is some kind of debugging mode. There are a few notable things about it: 1) Samus is invincible, and has infinite missiles. 2) Samus has both the Wave Beam and the Ice Beam equipped, which results in a beam that behaves just like the Ice Beam, but the projectile appears to be a blue Wave Beam projectile. 3) Destroying metroids has a tendancy to freeze the game.

Footnotes:

[1] The strings are not ASCII. IIRC, the character set is laid out exactly as it is on the password screen, so the value 0 corresponds to the character '0', etc. Obviously, strings are not 0-terminated.

[2] Unfilled spaces on the password screen are equivalent to 0s. The space character that you can enter is something different. In the case of the NARPASSWORD password, only so many of the characters are actually significant, so the last 8 or so characters can be anything. I've forgotten exactly how many are ignored.

Re:JUSTIN BAILEY

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually... I belive the code stands for "Just in Bailey"
Bailey is slang for a bathing suit

Re:JUSTIN BAILEY

[Anonymous Coward]

It's an interesting theory, but as I said above the password is almost certainly a coincidence. Try searching the web for any information on "bailey" being related to swimming or bathing suits. When I tried this, all I found was references to this theory. I found nothing non-Metroid related.

Re:JUSTIN BAILEY

[slumpy]

Justin B in my first grade said the same thing...I swear...Lenexa

Re:JUSTIN BAILEY

[M3wThr33]

One would want to think that.
Sadly most people never realize the code is actually "Just in bailey." And with a little bit of knowledge of the British culture, you find out "bailey" means "bikini."

Re:JUSTIN BAILEY

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe if you included that link in the original post, you wouldn't have been marked offtopic. Try that next time you reference an obscure piece of videogame trivia.

Re:JUSTIN BAILEY

[argStyopa]

I spent hours reverse-engineering Metroid's password system...

It's nice to see that the unrepentant ubergeeks haven't left /.

OTOH, he/she DID post AC, maybe that means some shame....

Re:JUSTIN BAILEY

[Anonymous Coward]

Breakfast Pants, you Fucking SOB, I just spent an hour eliminating the fucking spyware installed on my PC after visiting your link!

Re:JUSTIN BAILEY

[MMeldrum]

Eh? I'm pretty sure it's not a British term. Certainly not one I've ever heard.

http://www.classicgaming.com/mailbag/mail094.shtml

..Australian maybe?

Re:JUSTIN BAILEY

[Audigy]

Hey look, it's Shinmizu. :)

Actually, I think the whole password thing is extremely coincidental.

Do a search for
NARPAS SWORD

or something like that to turn up a few more replies, and hopefully the huge article that explain in-depth how the original Metroid's password system works, with the ridiculously easy to hack checksums and all that stuff. Fascinating really. :D

Re:JUSTIN BAILEY

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you high?! Justin Bailey is the oldest known trick in the entire Metroid Series. It's actully a shame that one of the logs wasn't written by a guy named Justin Bailey in the first Metroid Prime. I could see including a link if the story were a generic Nintendo story, but not if it's specifically about the Metroid series.

Is this Metroid meets Ikaruga?

[Anonymous Coward]

Light beams, dark beams, extra damage... hmmm, sounds familiar.

Not to say that Metroid 2 won't be a great game-- The first one rocked.

Re:Is this Metroid meets Ikaruga?

[thrash242]

"Metroid 2"?!? "The first one"?!?

Do you think that the Metroid series just sprung into being a few years ago??

I hope you just forgot to put "Prime" in there.

Geez.

Re:Is this Metroid meets Ikaruga?

[Anonymous Coward]

Light vs. dark is waaaay older than Ikaruga.

Why, archeologists have found conclusive proof that dates the concept as early as Silhouette Mirage.

(Can't wait to start up MP2 when I get home tonight.)

Re:Is this Metroid meets Ikaruga?

[swerk]

That was my first thought too, upon learning about the light and dark beams. I wonder how big the crossover is between Metroid and Ikaruga fans. I'd say being an old-school or hard-core (pick your favourite term) would be a common thread, but the Prime games seem to appeal to a wider audience than the 2D Metroid games of glory days gone by did.

In any case, I doubt there will be much high-score sets-of-three chaining going on with Echoes, but I'll bet the speed-runners of the world are licking their chops!

WTF?

[oGMo]

Why is it in every review they make the point to emphasize "this is not full of revolutionary new gameplay"? If I get a Metroid game, I don't want revolutionary new gameplay: I want Metroid. Metroid Prime was good despite the new 3D stuff, because it was still essentially Metroid.

What we should be asking is "is this game a new Metroid game with good story, level design, secrets, etc.", and it sounds like it is. After all, the first thing we asked about MP1 was not "does this have revolutionary new gameplay", rather "is this still the Metroid we love?"

Anyhow, point made. I hope this one has more secrets and stuff than the last. Sounds like it does, but that's one of the few things I thought the original (Prime) lacked.

Re:WTF?

[cubicledrone]

Why is it in every review they make the point to emphasize "this is not full of revolutionary new gameplay"?

Because the game media (and therefore the entire entertainment media) is only impressed with companies that spend enormous amounts of money on "new, unproven technologies," therefore they must remind everyone that every other project is "not different enough."

Without such confusion, they wouldn't be able to write articles like "Polar Express is an awful movie and oh yeah, someone wasted umpty billion dollars making it" or "the Incredibles is the finest artistic achievement since the Marriage of Figaro, and they should have spent more."

Re:WTF?

[geminidomino]

They're doing us a FAVOR! This way we know that they haven't dicked around with the interface and play control to add some pointless tweaks for the sake of "revolutionizing" the gameplay. While I have loved Metroid since I played the first one in '86, I'm generally an RPGer. Whenever I read about an RPG being "revolutionary" in 2004, it generally means the same 2 things: 25-minute cutscenes (AKA "Xenosaga Syndrome") and that goddamn Real-time-battle-with-idiotic-AI bullshit that only me and Tycho seem to loathe.

I see the lack of revolutionary new gameplay as a very comforting selling point.

Re:WTF?

[antoy]

I couldn't agree more. I remember reading the Gamespy review of Soul Calibur 2. A page was dedicated to let every reviewer to express his opinions: All of them but one (I think Fargo was the exception) whined about how they expected it to be 'revolutionary' and a 'huge leap forward for fighting games' (the way Soul Calibur 1 was).

Thankfully, I had already played Soul Calibur 2 and I knew how fantastic a game it was. This game magazine mentality results in stupid reviews. For now, the only people I trust on game opinions is Gabe & Tycho, and my little brother.

(Sorry for the rant, I'm just glad other people see the foolishness too)

Re:WTF?

[Guppy06]

"Why is it in every review they make the point to emphasize "this is not full of revolutionary new gameplay"?"

Because they have to write something in order to justify their paychecks. Things that are different are easier to write about because you can point out how it's different. "It's still good" doesn't fill up a page.

Re:WTF?

[FortKnox]

I agree competely. In fact, I can't add anything else to this comment, cause, damnit, you said everything on my mind.

Hate just write a "Me Too!" reply, but I can't agree more with what you are saying!

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Stay away from Tales of Symphonia then, you'll hate it, it has the latter and is a contender for the former (not as long as Xenosaga though). It sucks when you die far away from a save point and you're stuck watching the same, unskippable cutscenes again.

Re:WTF?

[buffer-overflowed]

They don't say that about Halo or Halo 2 though, and it's just as true.

Why do you think that is?

Re:WTF?

[geminidomino]

I already tried it, and you're absolutely right. =\

Like Tycho, I'm waiting for Beten Kaitos to see if the Cube will be any excuse for an RPG platform, or if Skies of Arcadia Legends was just a fluke.

Re:WTF?

[mink]

I hate dumb battle AI as well, but in Tales of Symponia you can command each character with the game paused, so you can at least have a bit of control. This while still annoying is better then the ones where you just set the AI on the grid and hope the characters dont act too retarded.

Re:WTF?

[geminidomino]

This while still annoying is better then the ones where you just set the AI on the grid and hope the characters dont act too retarded. *cough*Star Ocean 3*cough*

Nintendo

[spike42]

Isn't rooting for a big, monopolistic company thats against free software kind of anti-slashdot?

Re:Nintendo

[PedanticSpellingTrol]

no, because unlike other big monopolistic companies that are against free software, Nintendo consistently turns in a top-notch product. Let's be honest here, they've got a more rabid fanbase than apple.

Re:Nintendo

[JohnFromCanada]

"Isn't rooting for a big, monopolistic company thats against free software kind of anti-slashdot?"

Making a game like this for free is just not feasible. Games are often far too complex and involve too much maintenance and work to be free. It also takes a lot more than just programmers to put together a good game by today's standards. There are some free games out there that are very good such as (ie. America's Army, Nethack, Wolfenstein Enemy Territory) however it is just not possible to expect all games to be free software.

Re:Nintendo

[0racle]

Not everyone is a zealot. I choose to use Microsoft products as well. In fact, they are even viable options for deployment. If the product is good, then its good. Its just software so don't let idology blind you.

Re:Nintendo

[Rude Turnip]

Nintendo:

Big - check

Monopolistic - no, plenty of competition (consoles & PCs)

Against free software - making a business decision to sell software (because you're a business) does not mean a company (which is essentially "legal software on paper" itself) is against free software.

Re:Nintendo

[uncoolcentral]

Nintendo has a more forgiving, devoted following than similar brands. It's not surprising that they're getting props on /.

Besides, inasmuch as they're not big into open source, and (like PSP) use proprietary media, it's easy enough to buy a dev kit/cart and either create your own games or pirate theirs.

Re:Nintendo

[spike42]

You are completly right. Sorry for being a troll, first post on this computer. Anyway, the Money issue is something that plagues open-source games, just like you pointed out.

Re:Nintendo

[Anonymous Coward]

Monopolistic - no, plenty of competition (consoles & PCs)
That wasn't always the case. Back in the late 80's, Nintendo used to have third-parties sign a contract to develop games exclusively for the NES.

Re:Nintendo

[Zangief]

They are not anti free software. They are anti piracy. They will fight roms with tooth and nails, because those are simply stealing their most valuable asset: games.

Re:Nintendo

[oGMo]

unlike other big monopolistic companies

Nintendo isn't a monopoly of much anymore. Handheld consoles, maybe, but that's not much of a monopoly... more like an aspect of a market. Plus, they're about to get some long-overdue competition there, too. Which brings me to your second point:

Let's be honest here, they've got a more rabid fanbase than apple.

Criminy yes. Nintendo fanboys (as opposed to most of us mere loyal fans) will probably mod me down just for linking to "that other console", not to mention 5 comments with FUD, 3 flames, and some excellent trolls. I love Nintendo like anyone else (who really doesn't?), but geesh... they're not perfect, and competition is good for everyone. Having a good product and a large market with lots of nostalgia brings out the crazies though.

Re:Nintendo

[slavetrade55]

That wasn't always the case. Back in the late 80's, Nintendo used to have third-parties sign a contract to develop games exclusively for the NES.

Ya, and look how that worked out.

Re:Nintendo

[terranman2]

More rabid than the apple fans! How dare you insult the great and powerful Jobs!

Re:Nintendo

[space_jake]

Not quite as rapid as in the old days. I remember the SNES / Sega Genesis rivalies. I kinda stopped paying attention to consoles when I got a into the PC after my SNES crapped out. Although I must admit that Metriod Prime (and eventually Starcraft: Ghost) did get me to buy a Game Cube but I haven't touched the thing or found a decent game for it since. Looks like I've struck gold again with MP2. But Samus is taking a back burner to Half-Life2.

Re:Nintendo

[nuknuk]

Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo still do this. Oftentimes now you see it as them purchasing the company (Bungie or Rare in the case of Microsoft) or hiring a company to create games on specific console "franchises". I can guarentee Retro isn't allowed to take their Metroid games and port them to another system, even though they developed it seperately from Nintendo. I'm not sure what kind of money changed hands for Team Ninja to make Ninja Gaiden for only the Xbox...but I'm certain that this was the case. There are many other examples (Grand Theft Auto is always released for the PS2 first?) so this really is a moot point.

Re:Nintendo

[arootbeer]

Exactly what maintenance is involved in working on a game that was published on read-only media?

Re:Nintendo

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, my family and I love Nintendo and we're not rabid.

If you accuse us of rabidity again, we'll tear your fucking face off.

Re:Nintendo

[Anonymous Coward]

Metroid is a poor example. No matter what rights Retro may have to the code, engine, etc. Nintendo retains the rights to all the Metroid character, which are Nintendo creations.

Re:Nintendo

[copyright1989]

Question: How does an old NES or SNES cart classify as one of Nintendo's most valuable assets? Or are you just referring to their games in general? In which case you must be misled or something, because I've never seen a GC ROM or disk image or anything.

Then again, I've never even looked. I imagine it'd be a bitch to get a hold of, though.

Re:Nintendo

[atcdevil]

wow.. slashdotters are such close minded assholes for rating this as flamebait

Re:Nintendo

[Bulln-Bulln]

"I can guarentee Retro isn't allowed to take their Metroid games and port them to another system, even though they developed it seperately from Nintendo."

Developed it seperately from Nintendo? Check the facts. Retro is Nintendo (a part of it). Just like NST or Intelligent Systems, Retro is "just another development studio" (not meant in a negative way). http://www.retrostudios.com/ says: "Retro Studios, founded in 1998, is a wholly owned subsidiary of Nintendo Company, Ltd."
The lead producers of Metroid Prime 1 and 2 are from Nintendo Japan. The music was composed by Kenji Yamamoto (also Nintendo Japan).

BTW: Microsoft did not buy Rare. They bought 49% of Rare. Do you really think that MS would allow them to develop games for GBA, NDS, and PSP, if MS owned 51% or more of Rare?

Re:Nintendo

[Anonymous Coward]

BTW: Microsoft did not buy Rare.

Yes, they did. Microsoft bought out 100% of Rare.

They bought 49% of Rare.

No, they didn't. Nintendo once owned 49% of Rare, then sold it off due to Rare's poor performance with all games following GoldenEye. Rare then turned around and sold out to Microsoft. Summary: Nintendo made money, Rare made money, Microsoft flushed money down the toilet to zero beneficial effect.

Do you really think that MS would allow them to develop games for GBA, NDS, and PSP, if MS owned 51% or more of Rare?

Yes, because (in the case of the GBA) that is what has already happened. Microsoft didn't publish those Rare-developed GBA titles (Banjo-Krappy, etc.), but they were definitely developed by Rare in the post-sellout era.

Re:Nintendo

[apanap]

GC isos are easy to find (I won't give a link, but any large warez-torrent-site should have a few), they're just not very easy to play, since you can't burn them to play... You have to stream it over ethernet, and most games are choppy as hell played that way. And their old games are still valuable because they can still make re-releases of them for a new system. Just look at all the GBA releases of old NES and SNES games, and there's even Zelda 1 for the cube (they gave out a lot of those discs for free, but still).

Re:Nintendo

[Zangief]

GC roms are available through bit torrent.

Since there is only one GC emulator, which needs a BIG computer to run, they are not exactly popular. The other way to use the GC roms, is via AC loader and its ilk, which mainly use Phatasy Star Online I&II to load the roms into a real GC.

Face it. Nintendo still makes money from their old games, so it IS theft to copy them.
--
Wiki de Ciencia Ficcion y Fantasia

Re:Nintendo

[Anonymous Coward]

Two of the games that the parent poster mentioned are online games that both require maintenance. Many games today require maintenance and updates. Maintenance could also be considered to be the testing and improvements that happen before the game goes live. I guess you're just too dumb to see that.

Re:Nintendo

[arootbeer]

Making a game like this for free is just not feasible. Games are often far too complex and involve too much maintenance and work to be free.

It seems to me that, in context, "a game like this" would be referencing the game that is the subject of this thread, Metroid Prime 2. Which is, as you appear to be too dumb to come to grips with, a game that is published in a READ-ONLY medium, and NOT VERSIONED beyond 1.0. By its very definition, maintenance DOES NOT include "testing and improvements that happen before a game goes live". That's called "development".

Re:Nintendo

[Anonymous Coward]

arootbeet you're a moron. Look at your posting history and maybe you yourself will realize how much you suck.

Re:Nintendo

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm the parent poster and that was clearly unnecessary. Normally, I wouldn't respond to such a troll but the ad hominem attacks are really not needed. arootbear you're correct in what you're saying. I should have clarified as I really meant that the games are too expensive to develop for them to be free. It was poor wording on my part for using the word maintenance instead of development.

Cheers

Re:Nintendo

[arootbeer]

Thank you.

I certainly agree with you that development costs of many games these days are truly outrageous, especially games that are published for consoles, since the developers only get one chance to do it right.

My original post was simply a request for clarification; I apologize if it came across as being a bit terse.

Troll

[uncoolcentral]

Troll.
(I'd rather use my mods to prop up, not knock down, yo.)
Damn. Now I can't mod this thread.

"the first game," eh?

[centauri]

Somehow, I'm guessing you don't really mean that.

Not Worthy of a Sequel, Really

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know, I got Metroid for GC last Christmas and I couldn't really get into it. I never got past the first level on the planet. Am I just getting old, or did it seem slightly derivative with average graphics. Maybe it's just me???

Try this new flash game... It's a strange blend of Dungeon Dice and Pacman.
Chomp Dice

Re:Not Worthy of a Sequel, Really

[PrvtBurrito]

I agree, I got a cube on ebay and got zelda and metroid prime with it. I loved the new zelda (good story awesome graphics) and thought metroid prime had awesome graphics, but found the FPS interface to be tedious and the game to be generally boring (very little story/just more levels/creatures). (Sorry) I'm surprised it has such a following. If they had given it a zelda interface, I would have enjoyed the game much more. (In the game's defense, I have a hard time with a lot of FPS games. Loved the Doom and quake series, found most after that to be challenging with a mouse and tedious on a console).

Re:Not Worthy of a Sequel, Really

[Karma Farmer]

Well, the planet was the second level, and there were only two levels, and the first was very, very short. So, if you didn't finish the game, I'm not suprised you didn't make it past the second level, and the first planet level. And, frankly, yeah, it's not by any means an original game. If you own a N64 or a GameCube, you've played the 3D-Nintendo platformer before.

However, Metroid Prime is probably the best expression of its game type so far. Complex world, totall genius power ups, coolest boss monsters, sweet graphics effects. If you care for the genre at all, you probably love Metroid Prime.

Now, I grant that it's not as cool as Pac Man. Although, your flash game isn't nearly as cool as Pac Man either. And though I've never before played "dungeon dice" (whatever the fuck that is), after trying it a few times I can easily imagine why a shot of tequila would make it more bearable.

Re:Not Worthy of a Sequel, Really

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, you didn't exactly pay fifty bucks for this though, did you?

FREE = INFINITE VALUE

Re:Not Worthy of a Sequel, Really

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I wouldn't pay $50 to for a prison ass rape, but I wouldn't call it "infinite value" either. I'm pretty sure your formula is broken somewhere.

Re:Not Worthy of a Sequel, Really

[Anonymous Coward]

Some people, maybe 5% of the male population, wouldn't mind a good ass-raping.

Re:Not Worthy of a Sequel, Really

[Guppy06]

"I never got past the first level on the planet."

See, here's your problem: there are no "levels" to a Metroid game, really. Since the beginning of the series, Metroid games spral out in all directions with little linear progression beyond what your arsenal and skill can get you to, and there's often a bit of back-tracking involved (go down to Norfair, get the High-Jump Boots, go back up to Brinstar, get the Varia, go back down to Norfair...)

Now, either you were waiting for a "Loading: Please Wait" screen to pop up and tell you that you had successfully cleared one area of the game and were moving onto the next (which, after you abandon the pirate ship, simply doesn't happen until you beat the game), or you never found an elevator leading to a different region (which suggests you didn't play for more than five minutes).

Heck, you'll even find yourself moving through the wreckage of that priate ship again eventually.

Re:Not Worthy of a Sequel, Really

[Guppy06]

Neither did the grandparent:

"I got Metroid for GC last Christmas..."

Re:Not Worthy of a Sequel, Really

[Guppy06]

"If they had given it a zelda interface, I would have enjoyed the game much more."

In a way, it is the same. Notice that all of Link's ranged weapons trigger a first-person view. At least in Metroid Prime you can move while using her ranged weapons.

Ah, indeed.

[Rickz0rz]

With HL2, Halo 2, MP:2, and DooM3 (for us people who are lazy to buy games now) to name a few, this shall be a very nice holiday. Wooty. I still have to get Ace Combat 5. And The Minish Cap. And a bajillion other games.

Well

[cubicledrone]

If you've played Metroid Prime, you've essentially played Metroid Prime 2

Sounds like the game industry is making great progress. Very impressive. Innovative sequels. Consistent gameplay experience. Mountains of cash followed by the inevitable layoff of the entire team. Outstanding. A real achievement.

Re:Well

[Justin205]

Metroid is NOT about the graphics, or the innovative new ways to play it... Metroid is about the story, mainly.

The philosophy behind this is really "If it isn't broken, don't fix it." The original MP engine worked wonderfully. It is visually impressive, even now, a few years later. Just add a few minor enhancements, and leave it. Concentrate most development on the multiplayer execution and the heart of every Metroid game - the story.

Re:Well

[cubicledrone]

"If it isn't broken, don't fix it."

How about "if it isn't broken, make a sequel?"

Re:Well

[cubicledrone]

Oh, and the main character's name is "Samus?" Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

Re:Well

[Rew190]

So what you're implying is that it's often a bad thing to give consumers more of something you already know they like?

Re:Well

[Rew190]

Oh yes. Your point might have some sort of validity if there were no more new games coming out and the prototype for your argument wasn't a game with the number "2" after it.

Taking a step back and using common sense, sequels are generally meant to give you more of the same. Sometimes they come with enhancements, but generally the core gameplay is still there, the core feel is still there.

So then it can be deduced that hmmmm, if you want innovative and brand new gaming experiences, hmmmm, perhaps you shouldn't be seeking it from sequels?

How did this get modded up?

Re:Well

[fireduck]

How about "if it isn't broken, make a sequel?"

Based on this, one could surmise you would have told Tolkien to stop writing after the Hobbit came out, because that was a darn good story, and he would just ruin it by writing anything else? There's nothing inherently wrong with a sequel if it is well done and enjoyable. While crappy sequels tarnish a reputation; I fail to see how quality, crafted sequels do anything but provide enjoyment (and strengthen a franchise).

Re:Well

[mcc]

Actually, it seems like Retro Studios is being treated pretty well, there aren't reports of people there getting laid off, and in fact Nintendo keeps asking them to make more games. Meanwhile some of the games they've made-- MP:Hunters and the original Metroid Prime itself come to mind-- have been uncommonly creative.

Whatever they're doing with this one game, it doesn't seem like this one dev house is going with the depressing flow of the rest of the industry in general. So with all they've done, shouldn't Retro get the license to create a game just to make people happy and make some money once in a while?

Meanwhile, I for one am glad they did what they did with MP2. The original MP just felt too unrefined, and the setting was too familiar (Oh gee.. I'm fighting Ridley... again...) for me to really get anything out of it. I rented it once and couldn't be bothered to go back to it, it just wasn't worth it too me. But I'm really looking forward to MP2 because from what I heard they were able to take the formula they experimented with in MP1, refine it to perfection, and put it in a much more interesting setting. This, I want to play.

Re:Well

[Hapless Hero]

Right, don't look for a chicken hatching out of a duck's egg, you know?

I personally don't mind the sequel bit, the first one was too hard for me because I never got time off from the hard 1P mode to play against my friends and learn new skills.

Re:Well

[NeoSkink]

No, just the opposite in fact. "If it isn't broken (The Hobbit), Make a sequal (LotR)" See, it all works out.

Re:Well

[Dimensio]

Metroid is NOT about the graphics, or the innovative new ways to play it... Metroid is about the story, mainly.

What Metroid games have you played? I am a fan of the series, but I admit that the storyline is often window dressing.

It's not bad, and it's not as sparse or empty as Doom 3, but it's still just a framework around which the game is made. It's not like it's Deus Ex.

Yes, Metroid Prime offered an immersive atmosphere where you could get bits and pieces of information about the history of the game setting, but all of that was extraneous and optional rather than an integral part of the gameplay.

Re:Well

[jacobito]

Metroid is about the story, mainly.

My memory doesn't always serve me well, but Metroid Prime is the first Metroid game where I could sense anything like an appreciable storyline. What strike me as the Metroid series' most representative qualities would be its atmosphere of alienness and the frequently exhilarating feeling of exploration and discovery. The subdued soundtrack and near lack of verbal cues in the original Metroid lent the game a kind of elegance and abstraction that perfectly fit its alien setting. I think later games like Metroid Fusion, while still great fun, lost a little by grafting more overt storytelling elements onto the game. (As I mentioned, though, maybe my memory's not so good and I'm just idealizing the best parts of the earlier games.)

More generally (and this is not addressed to the parent post), I'm not sure why some gamers insist on the primacy of storytelling in games. In some cases, like the old Infocom games or brilliant RPGs like Planescape: Torment, a plot is indispensable, but there are games like Doom or Defender, in which the story is understood to be completely irrelevant. And then you have games like Go or Checkers, for which a story would be meaningless.

Re:Well

[Anonymous Coward]

MP: Hunters is being developed by NST (Nintendo Software Technology Corp.), not Retro. For reference, they also developed 1080: Avalanche and Wave Race: Blue Storm.

Re:Well

[Anonymous Coward]

Listen you. We don't appreciate your attempt to introduce reading comprehension to an otherwise illiterate forum like slashdot.

It doesn't matter that he completely misinterpreted another poster - he mentioned Tolkein in a positive light, and that's good enough for an "Insightful" from us.

Love,
Slashdot Moderators.

Re:Well

[Anonymous Coward]

They also did the GameBoy Color version of Bionic Commando.

Yep, MP:Hunters is going to rock. :)

Re:Well

[patternjuggler]

I lost interest in MP after fighting and losing to some boss that shot bees out of it mouth at me while water was all around me (or something). What is it about the game that should make me pick it up again, or try the sequel?

Re:Well

[Bulln-Bulln]

"(...) later games like Metroid Fusion (...)"

In Europe (and AFAIK also in Japan) Metroid Fusion was released *before* Metroid Prime. In the USA both games where released on the same day.

Re:Well

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI, Retro is NOT behind MP:Hunters. I believe it is the NST.

Re:Well

[KDR_11k]

Prime 2 is said to be even harder, so... Good Luck!

Re:Well

[xnot]

Metroid Prime is the first Metroid game where I could sense anything like an appreciable storyline.

Um, what Metroid games have you been playing? The book for the first one is huge, going into to how Metroids were created, the space pirates, etc. And I thought it was a pretty cool plot twist how in the end, Samus turns out to be a girl. The second Metroid (Gameboy) had the whole metroid-mutation thing, and the baby metroid at the end that thinks Samus is it's mother. Then in the 3rd Metroid for Super Nintendo you have the baby metroid growing up and ultimately saving Samus' life.

Just because a game lacks flashy FMV cut scenes doesn't mean it doesn't have a story.

Re:Well

[tgibbs]

Sounds like the game industry is making great progress. Very impressive. Innovative sequels. Consistent gameplay experience. Mountains of cash followed by the inevitable layoff of the entire team. Outstanding. A real achievement.

The original Metroid Prime was indeed innovative. It managed to reincarnate the spirit of a classic 2D platform exploration game in a first person 3D game. There were many innovative aspects, such as the use of the multiple visors. So it hardly seems to be abusing the franchise to provide a sequel that continues to exploit the MP design for those players who enjoyed MP, and would like to continue on with a similar experience. I gather that the new version adds an alternate "Dark World" twist. This is a concept that I first saw in one of Nintendo's 2D Zelda games, and that was later used to good advantage in Eidos's Soul Reaver. I'm interested to see what Nintendo will do with the idea in the MP series (so far, I'm barely into the game, and have had only a glimpse of the Dark World).

awesome

[grungebox]

Metroid Prime is one of those rare games that got pretty much everything right. The only thing missing was a more engrossing story, as that might draw you into the experience a little bit more, but that was minor. If Echoes is more of the same, then that's fine by me. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But...there are notable changes such as the light/dark worlds and light/dark weapons, the echo and dark visors.

Re:awesome

[Osty]

Metroid Prime is one of those rare games that got pretty much everything right. The only thing missing was a more engrossing story

Metroid isn't really known for its engrossing storylines, so I wouldn't really call that a "missing element". I would call the horrendous abortion of a control scheme a "missing element". Too bad it doesn't sound like they've addressed that for Prime 2.

Re:awesome

[Edgewize]

It's only a "horrendous abortion of a control scheme" if you've played a lot of dual-analog games, and gotten so comfortable with that that you've come to expect it.

I love Metroid Prime's control scheme. Sure, you have to use target-lock to be able to strafe around, but how often do you want to strafe when you're not fighting something? Never once in all the times I've beaten the game have I ever felt like I was being limited by the controls. The only minor complaint is that the turning speed could be faster, but then again, you /are/ wearing a giant metal suit.

I'm glad that they haven't changed the control scheme for the sequel. Maybe a dual-analog option could have been added to satisfy the hardcore FPS fans, but I prefer the controls the way they are right now.

Re:awesome

[Osty]

I love Metroid Prime's control scheme. Sure, you have to use target-lock to be able to strafe around, but how often do you want to strafe when you're not fighting something?

I strafe all the time. Pay attention to your day-to-day movements, and you'll find that you even do it in real life. However, strafing wasn't my biggest complaint. It was jumping. If you're going to put me in a first-person perspective and then throw jumping puzzles at me, let me look down!

The only minor complaint is that the turning speed could be faster, but then again, you /are/ wearing a giant metal suit.

Lame justification. Master Chief is in a similar giant metal suit, yet you have full range of movement in Halo. Halo is to Quake as Metroid Prime is to Duke Nukem 3D, with respect to looking up and down.

People justify Prime's control scheme by pointing out it's not a shooter. That doesn't mean you should make it more difficult for me to move, especially if you're going to make me jump. They say that you "get used to it" if you spend some time with the game. What a lame excuse for a broken control scheme, especially when you have to "get used to it" all over again if you stop playing the game for a week or two. I'm simply calling a spade a spade. Prime's control scheme sucks, and if Prime 2 didn't change that, Prime 2's control scheme sucks.

Re:awesome

[Edgewize]

Oh, you never figured out how to look down?

Personally, I thought that the jumping was particularly well-done on Metroid Prime even without looking down. But if you tilt your view forward just a bit, it's almost impossible to miss a jump.

Hold down R for free-look mode, find a view you like, hold down L to lock the camera view, and release R to move around again.

Re:awesome

[hibiki_r]

I've played dozens of shooters, from Doom to Dark Forces. There are very, very few games where I had less trouble dealing with jump puzzles than in Metroid. You could look up or down as you move in Half Life, Dark Forces II and Jedi Outcast, but jumping got way harder in any of this games than it ever did in Metroid Prime. Looking up or down while standing is as easy as it gets. The only troublesome moment is in the middle of a jump. In MP, platforms are huge and the jumping physics are lax. The up/down problem gets fixed because you just can't miss a platform unless you are trying!

Would I like to be able to look up and down hile jumping? certainly, but a two analog sticks control scheme would make the game lose a lot of what a Metroid game is. Prime's auto-aim and lock-on mechanism is not there to make 1 analog controls usable: the lock-on mechanism was the first priority while making the game, and 2 analog sticks would not have worked that well with a lock-on mechanism. To fight most enemies, you just press 2 buttons while evading attacks. In a 2 analog system, your right hand lets you evade while you aim with the left. Would you like to just have a lock on mechanism on 2 analog sticks, leaving your left thumb idle? And, w/o the lock-on, how do you really handle boss combats using visors? once you know where the enemy's weak point is, why use the visor?

I could go on and on forever talking about how, if they gave you the exact same game with a two sticks control scheme, the game would be way less fun, specially for the less dextrous among us. I just wish you had the opportunity to play the game the way you want it, so taht you could see that you wouldn't really want what you're asking for.

Re:awesome

[Osty]

Oh, you never figured out how to look down?

Yes, I figured out how to look down. I was in rant mode, which doesn't work as well when I say, "Let me look down without having to pull the R button for free-look mode so I can tilt my head, and then hold the L button to lock the camera view so I can release the R button and finally be able to move around so I can make that jump." Doesn't that seem a little silly to you? Let's compare:

• A normal first-person perspective game (if you want to get away from shooters, consider something like Morrowind) - I tilt the right thumbstick in the direction of "down" (which might be up on the stick if you play inverted). Then I run forward with the left thumbstick and jump. When I land, I can continue to look around with the right thumbstick, returning my view to level or looking up or down as I choose.
• Metroid Prime - I pull the R button, and then tilt the left stick in the direction of "down". I let go of the R button and ... Oops. Spring-look. Okay, I pull the R button, tilt the left stick in the direction of down, and pull the L button to lock my view. Shoot, I'm not quite lined up with the jump, so I need to turn my body. I turn left ... oh, wait, I just strafed left (and fell off the platform) because I was still holding L. Start over, adjust my angle of attack first and then go through the R button mayhem. Now I can move, so I run forward with the left thumbstick and jump. Once I land, I don't want to continue looking at my feet so I let go of the L button. Of course, if I want to look around (ie, up or down), I have to pull the R button again. String a couple jumps together in a row and you've got a recipe for tedium.

Which would you prefer?

If your control scheme is so bad that you can assume that someone missed such simple functionality as looking down, something's broken. If you have to explain how to look down with more words than, "Use the stick to look down," something's broken.

Re:awesome

[Edgewize]

After playing the game for about 5 minutes, the L-lock became second nature for me, so I can't quite relate to the experience that you describe.

Most players I've talked to, and most of the reviews for the original Metroid Prime, say that the jumping is better handled in Metroid Prime than just about any other FPS or third-person game they've ever played. The movement is smooth, the camera angle feels natural, and you don't have to be split-second precise to make the jumps.

If you want my opinion, I think that dual-analog controls are unnatural. What sounds better:

• Metroid Prime's setup - I can move, aim, and lock onto targets using only one thumb and the triggers, so that my right hand can focus entirely on performing actions. I can simultaneosuly aim and do any of the following: sidestep/dodge, switch to a particular weapon, fire a shot, charge a shot, fire a missile, jump, or switch to morph ball.
  
• A dual-analog setup - both thumbs are in use for movement, leaving only the triggers and the Z button available. I would constantly be moving adjusting my right hand between the right stick and the buttons. There would not be any way to select individual weapons, so I would have to cycle to the one I need. I would not be able to turn while performing most actions, and I would get carpal tunnel from using the deep-pull analog trigger to rapid-fire the charge beam.

I know which one I prefer.

Re:awesome

[Osty]

Most players I've talked to, and most of the reviews for the original Metroid Prime, say that the jumping is better handled in Metroid Prime than just about any other FPS or third-person game they've ever played. The movement is smooth, the camera angle feels natural, and you don't have to be split-second precise to make the jumps.

The difference between "in spite of" and "because of". Metroid Prime's jumping works better than other FPS games in spite of its control scheme, not because of it. Half-Life's jumping puzzles on Xen sucked horribly, for example. However, if you coupled Metroid Prime's jumping physics with Half-Life's control scheme, you'd have a winner. As it is, you have one game that sucks to control, and one that sucks for jumping puzzles.

Re:awesome

[PhoenixFlare]

I strafe all the time. Pay attention to your day-to-day movements, and you'll find that you even do it in real life. However, strafing wasn't my biggest complaint. It was jumping. If you're going to put me in a first-person perspective and then throw jumping puzzles at me, let me look down!

Maybe i'm just different than everyone else, but i'm about 75% and 13 hours into the game, and I have not yet run into a single situation where I had to look down to make a jump sucessfully.

People justify Prime's control scheme by pointing out it's not a shooter. That doesn't mean you should make it more difficult for me to move, especially if you're going to make me jump.

As the previous poster was saying, the only people who seem to complain about this are those that play lots and lots of dual-analog twitchy FPS games like Halo, and seem to suffer a sort of brain meltdown if they're forced to use anything else.

What a lame excuse for a broken control scheme, especially when you have to "get used to it" all over again if you stop playing the game for a week or two.

Has anyone else had to do this? I know I sure haven't, and I went about 6 months inbetween plays once.

Re:awesome

[PhoenixFlare]

Metroid Prime - I pull the R button, and then tilt the left stick in the direction of "down". I let go of the R button and ... Oops. Spring-look. Okay, I pull the R button, tilt the left stick in the direction of down, and pull the L button to lock my view. Shoot, I'm not quite lined up with the jump, so I need to turn my body. I turn left ... oh, wait, I just strafed left (and fell off the platform) because I was still holding L. Start over, adjust my angle of attack first and then go through the R button mayhem. Now I can move, so I run forward with the left thumbstick and jump. Once I land, I don't want to continue looking at my feet so I let go of the L button. Of course, if I want to look around (ie, up or down), I have to pull the R button again. String a couple jumps together in a row and you've got a recipe for tedium.

In Prime, you don't have to look down every blasted time you jump. Maybe you're just really bad at judging distances or something, but as far as myself, anyone else I know that's played the game, or any professional reviews i've read of the game...None have mentioned a problem like the giant rant above.

I'd venture a guess that you're confusing "The control scheme is bad" with "I'm trying to play the game like something it's not and it's not working".

Believe me, if you're not trying to shoehorn things into a different control style, it's very easy to just bound through 4 or 5 quick jumps in a row...And do midair jumps, even! :)

Which would you prefer?

Aside from Ocarina of Time, where you jump automatically, Prime is the easiest 3D first-person game to control that i've ever played.

Re:awesome

[13Echo]

You MUST have the lock-on to use visors, switch weapons, fire, and jump at a moment's notice. You just can't do all of that on a pad with "Halo's" dual-stick console FPS scheme.

Prime's design is totally based around the visor system. Several fights require that you switch within a split-second in order to battle effectively. Try doing all of that with two thumbs and two forefingers with a dual-analog configuration. You can't do it.

Notice that none of Metroid's battles require mouse/keyboard meneuvers than can only be closely duplicated by dual analog. What's there to complain about? You're just an FPS player that's looking for an FPS game's controls in a game that doesn't require it. And, frankly, the Gamecube controller design (which I tend to really like) wouldn't be able to support such play while keeping features intact since it has fewer shoulder buttons (not counting that Z-Trigger) than a PS2 controller. And for the X-Box, it doesn't matter in Halo because you only need two buttons to do anything; jump and fire.

An, um... You can look down in Prime. And up for that matter.

One more thing... Metroid Prime 2 has implemented a screw attack. I assume that the lock-on will be required for that attack to hit the target worth a damn. I guess I'll find out tomorrow.

Everything that was done in Prime's control scheme was done to keep it as feature-rich while preserving Metroid's classic play during the transition to 3D. Cry all you like about how it doesn't play like every generic FPS game out there, but you can't change the fact that it never aspired to be a 3D FPS. It's Metroid in 3D.

Re:awesome

[Guppy06]

"I would call the horrendous abortion of a control scheme a "missing element"."

It's only "horrendous" if you come to it after playing nothing but FPSs all your life. The control scheme is all but identical to what's used in adventure games like Zelda (Z-/L-targeting, right controller used to manipulate items, etc.).

Re:awesome

[natd]

Reading these 'hard to jump' comments, I just can't relate. MP is one recent-ish game where I was never frustrated by unnecessarily difficult jumping. COnversly, I'm playing HALO this week (because I didn't really get into it originally so am playing it now to justify buying HALO 2!) and the thing that is driving me up the wall is the jumping! I'm having to take 5 or 6 attempts to get onto things which I don't even think the game designers intended to be a challenge. It's hard to judge and frustrating. MP on the other hand is acurate and easy - the control scheme is great IMHO.

Re:awesome

[Dimensio]

In Prime, you don't have to look down every blasted time you jump.

True, but if you lock the view down, and then quickly release it as you jump, you can get some extra distance.

Useful for sequence breaking, like getting the space jump as soon as you land on Tallon IV.

(Well, that actually involves lock-strafe jumping, but it's useful in other places)

Re:awesome

[Hast]

I agree with you to some part. The main problem with the control scheme is if you think of the game as a 3D shooter, then the controls are strange.

If you see the game as a platform game then the controls make a lot more sense.

However, I still think the controls are the worst part of the game. Particularly during boss battles since they often make you loose your lock (freezing attacks and such). And you are more stressed in boss battles. Since the normal enemies are typically push-overs the controls are not really put to the test either.

There were a few places were jumping annoyed the hell out of me. I still have to beat MP, but I have not had much problems with platforms and fusion metroids. So I have gotten used to the control scheme.

I still think it pretty much sucks though.

Re:awesome

[KDR_11k]

Perhaps that's a bug in the initial NTSC version (though I never saw it listed) but when I played it your view automatically tilted downwards a bit when you were falling, enough to see where you were going to land.

welly well well

[ImTheDarkcyde]

looks to me like the good folks at gamespot have a case of "halo fanboy-ism"

they honestly do not point out ONE flaw worthy of crippling this game a whopping 0.9 from the sheer perfection it is. Show me a more beautiful game, and i will weep.

Re:welly well well

[timts]

even unreal back to 1998 looks better than metroid prime on gamecube to me...

Re:welly well well

[Headcase88]

I was very surprised it got a 9 for graphics. A game even slightly better than MP1 for graphics should be getting a 10. I haven't played the game so I don't know about the rest.

Re:welly well well

[TrancePhreak]

The control scheme for one. A first person game that does not have first person controls. Inconsistant locks on flying enemies for two. Sometimes while trying to lock onto a flying enemy, something else would be locked onto.

Re:welly well well

[Anonymous Coward]

Shouldn't have stuck that fork into your eyes then.

all sequels..

[Folmer]

What about something completely new?
All ive seen in the last couple of months is sequels:
Half-life 2, Halo 2, GTA:SA, Everquest 2 etc...

Re:all sequels..

[tveidt]

Capcom's Killer 7 looks really nice.

Re:all sequels..

[kid-noodle]

Ok, here's a crazy thing to say:

Who cares? Really. Why does it matter, that we have franchises? Why is it important (and here's my caveat) as long as we innovate and improve within them.

The Mario games are an uber-franchise, Mario 64 was both evolutionary and revolutionary. Metroid Prime is part of the Metroid franchise. Are you going to tell me that it didn't innovate within that?
Half-Life 2, happens to be the sequel to Half-Life. That's a problem?

Here's something - franchises allow innovation with minimal risk for the developer. They can almost certainly know they'll make money, because they've got a huge whack of good will, and brand recognition. They've got carte blanche to experiment within the framework, with minimal risk, which is more of an incentive to take that step. I'd call that a Good Thing.

Re:all sequels..

[MattJakel]

What are you talking about? Original games don't come out before the holidays! With everyone else coming out with guaranteed hit sequels, how could anyone possibly be different and come out with something original?

Re:all sequels..

[vyke4lyfe]

Killzone looks promising, I just bought it. Hopefully it kicks ass.

Re:all sequels..

[Anonymous Coward]

"Meroid Prime 2" isn't the same as "Legally Blonde 2." Some of the best games have been sequels and franchises. That's a good thing. Sequels can be as (or more) innovative than a new property, because the company generally has much more capital and resources to work with... They aren't taking a leap of faith, so more importantly the people who dole out the money aren't either.

Re:all sequels..

[Anonymous Coward]

Go play Katamari Damacy.

Actually, seriously. You should. :)

Re:all sequels..

[iONiUM]

WORLD OF WARCRAFT

Re:all sequels..

[asdren]

I'm looking forward to Monolith's FEAR
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/fear/previ ew_610 0350.html

Re:all sequels..

[geminidomino]

Couple of MONTHS? Where were you the two years before that (Hint: More of the same)?

Re:all sequels..

[patternjuggler]

All ive seen in the last couple of months is sequels

This argument keeps coming up again and again here and elsewhere on the internets.

There's always this unspoken implication that sequels are inherently bad. I would guess that the reason is that if all the big games are sequels, and all franchises eventually get boring and old and no one buys them anymore, then therefore the industry is in trouble because all the games are sequels and nothing will replace them when they die out. Or, the other reason is this argument keeps coming up is that the proponents of it are incredibly jaded, incredibly nostalgic for their lost youth spent playing more primitive games, or just don't have the same tastes as the majority of the gaming public so therefore anything new is not automatically good, but at least has a greater chance of appealing to their tastes than a tried-and-true formula that they know they'll dislike.

The other thing I hate about this "too many sequels" whining is that there are a lot of original games out there. Granted a lot of them were made on small budgets and don't get a lot of press (and are complete crap)- so what the critics are saying is that they'd like more game companies to make huge investments in experimental games, and that the press should devote more time to it accordingly, but without presenting a business case for why this is superior to making games that consumers unquestionably desire. My suggestion- if you like innovative and original games, go out and spend money on them. Talk them up on websites. Etc. And just ignore all the press the sequels are getting.

In movies there's this whole self-sustaining world called 'independent film' (someone needs to create that for games)- it wasn't created by critics, it was created by film-makers and supported by small but devoted audiences.

Re:all sequels..

[Bulln-Bulln]

Last time I checked this is part of the Warcraft franchise. ;)

Re:all sequels..

[Bulln-Bulln]

All ive seen in the last couple of months is sequels

What about Geist (coming soon), Baten Kaitos, Second Sight,...?

Re:all sequels..

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, you're a trendy bastard, aren't you.

STFU about Katamari Damacy already. You're not impressing anyone.

Re:all sequels..

[Anonymous Coward]

stfu.
It rocks.
Roll up a katamari, smoke it, and play the game.

Re:all sequels..

[Anonymous Coward]

Note that the "7" in the title does not imply that the game is seventh in a series... or does it?

The website

[Cargnini]

Someone here tried to enter the site of game ? Jesus i ahve an 1Mb ADSL link and it take a lot of time anda data trasnfer jesus is an absurd.

Re:The website

[Hapless Hero]

Yep, website is absurd, but I will probably get the game. I love Metroid Prome, and multiplayer will make my day.

Re:Its not a name

[bludstone]

s o m e - 1 s e t - u p
u s - t h e B 0 M B 1 1

That works too :)

No, seriously. Just make sure the 0 in bomb is a zero, not an O.

So, does anyone know where the name justin bailey came from? Ive heard things from "its someone to nintendo" all the way to "Just In Bailey" and a bailey is a bathingsuit (is it?)

Behind Samus...

[Ghostgate]

resuming their position behind Samus

I'm sorry, but that just puts all sorts of naughty ideas into my head!

Re:Behind Samus...

[infinite9]

I'm sorry, but that just puts all sorts of naughty ideas into my head!

I've seen those pictures here.

Re:Behind Samus...

[mentalflossboy]

Whatever dude. You don't even want to go there. It ain't pretty.

Re:Behind Samus...

[LS]

You DO realize that many people here on Slashdot think that Samus is a male character, don't you?

Re:Behind Samus...

[sqlrob]

Not just /.

An article in one gaming magazine I read (Game Informer I think), put Samus and Master Chief together as a couple. One of the letters to the editors in a later issue said that it wouldn't work because Master Chief isn't gay.

Re:Behind Samus...

[Anonymous Coward]

Thus evidencing the sheer newbieness of the Xbox's core demographic.

Re:Behind Samus...

[geminidomino]

*Villainous beard-stroking chuckle* Breeding mutant Humano-Chozo hybrids with performance enhanced cyborg-humans... now there's an idea...

Pinky, are you thinking what I'm thinking?

Re:Behind Samus...

[Spleener12]

Besides, it's an inaccurate description. The game is first-person, so you're inside her.

...I guess that doesn't help with the naughty thoughts too much, does it?

Re:Behind Samus...

[Maserati]

I think so, but I don't think they made that many copies of E.T.

Re:Behind Samus...

[John Pliskin]

Samus is not half Chozo, just full of Chozo blood.

Both of her parents will killed during an attack by the Space Pirates; Ridely having been the one who killed Samus' parents.
Samus had fled, and was later found by the Chozo's, raised back to health, and trained in their fighting ways. She was also given her suit then; and in theory it is her blood that allows her to control it.

$

Re:Behind Samus...

[geminidomino]

Yeah, I know the backstory. Though good on ya for posting it for everyone else ;)

What happened.....

[Rooked_One]

to the good old side scrolling games? I mean, we had 3d games isolated to the PC and the side scrollers for consoles, and while some games on the XBOX and PS2 like Sudeki are very cool, they are not first person and save a certain aspect.

I look at all the people, including me, who would like a side scroller with outstanding graphics - which could be done quite easily, and I don't see it happening.

Did companies either...

a - decided that side scrollers aren't popular enough, or

b - decided that its easier to basically copy the computer industries years of work?

Sorry for the ran, but i'd just like to see a super graphical mario brothers, or better yet, Metroid. The real metroid - the first one. After they turned it into 3d blasphemy they should have renamed it.

Re:What happened.....

[prockcore]

I look at all the people, including me, who would like a side scroller with outstanding graphics - which could be done quite easily, and I don't see it happening.

Get a gamecube. Paper Mario is a side scroller, Viewtiful Joe 1 and 2 are side scrollers.

Re:What happened.....

[tommertron]

to the good old side scrolling games?

A lot of them went to the Gameboy Advance... including a remake of the original Metroid, and a new, stellar Metroid Advance. I guess though with the Nintendo DS, they're going to start recycling all the N64 3D games, so that legacy is pretty much over.

Check out Viewtiful Joe for the Gamecube though - a great reinvention of a sidescrolling game for the modern gameplay ear.

Re:What happened.....

[ahunter]

Uh, 'Viewtiful Joe' is a modern sidescroller. It topped the charts here in the UK for a while, so they're still popular. 'Paper Mario' sounds like it might be basically a side scroller, too.

Re:What happened.....

[Elwood P Dowd]

Viewtiful Joe is one of the best side scrollers ever.

Paper Mario looks fun.

Alien Hominid will rule.

Re:What happened.....

[jasno]

Amen to that.

I *loved* the original metroid series. So when I saw Metroid Prime on the gamecube, I had to have it. While its a pretty nifty game, and still has a lot of the elements of the originals, I felt the controls were cumbersome and distracting. The field of view is horribly narrow, forcing me to spend most of my time running a bit, scanning, running a bit, scanning..

It might work better if I had a mouse for rapid movements, but it doesn't work well with the standard controller.

Re:What happened.....

[Apathetic1]

You mean like Metroid Fusion or Metroid Zero Mission?

Given, the graphics aren't necessarliy "outstanding" but the engine is an enhanced SNES port. Zero mission is basically the original metroid, extended, with SNES graphics.

Re:What happened.....

[Osty]

and a new, stellar Metroid Advance

Did I miss a Metroid game somewhere? Are you referring to Metroid Fusion (a "new" Metroid game in that it's not a remake like Metroid: Zero Mission, but it's not "new" as it was released a few years back)? Some would say that Metroid Fusion was a departure from the normal Metroid formula. The addition of the ship computer giving you missions added a sense of urgency and linearity to the game that other Metroids didn't have. Because of that, you were often limited on where you could go (doors were opened by the storyline, and not by 5 missiles or super missiles or super bombs) and how much time you could spend there (the story urged you to run through an area rather than spending time exploring). It was still a good game IMHO, but not up to par with Super Metroid or Metroid: Zero Mission. It was better than Metroid Prime, though.

As for other side-scrollers, Metal Slug was recently published on XBox, and Alien Hominid is available on PS2 and Gamecube (great development story behind this one -- it went from a fun little Flash game to a full-blown console side-scroller, and was developed by literally a handful of people like back in the days of "garage game developers"). The Mega Man Anniversary collection is available for PS2 and GC if you want to get your old school Mega Man game on. Also, even though the DS looks like it will recycle N64 games, there's still a ton of side scrollers available for the GBA to keep you happy for quite a while (everything from Mario to Mega Man to River City Ransom).

Check out Viewtiful Joe for the Gamecube though - a great reinvention of a sidescrolling game for the modern gameplay ear.

Also available on the PS2 now, if you don't have a Gamecube.

Re:What happened.....

[justforaday]

As others have mentioned, there's Viewtiful Joe, as well as the GBA Metroid games. I also hear that Gradius V is supposed to be a pretty good version of the old 2D space shooters...

Re:What happened.....

[RPI Geek]

Check out Viewtiful Joe. It's a 3D side scroller. You control the character as if the game were a pure side scroller, but he sometimes turns corners and the graphics are 3D, which is an interesting combination and it makes it a fun game :)

Re:What happened.....

[Capt. Murphy]

Um, the field of view was limited for a reason. How do you think that Samus sees out of that suit? Notice how when you tilt your head up and down it gets slower the further you tilt from the 'neutral' position? That's what it would be like in that suit to move around. They were adding an element of realism to the first person perspective.

And before I get 'back to side-scrollers! other metroids didnt have realism!' replies, Metroid Fusion was the only metroid game where you could hang on the edge of cliffs. Why? Because Samus is without her bulky suit in that game.

Re:What happened.....

[tommertron]

Thanks! You expanded on a lazy post I made... :)

I meant that the Metroid Fusion was 'newer' than Super Metroid, et al. And I agree with you that it was a lot more linear than prior ones, but it still had a lot of the exploratory stuff that the old ones had. Plus, it was pretty fun.

Are you with me then that Metroid Prime just wasn't that great? Okay, wait... it was good, don't get me wrong, it was a beautful game, and fun to play, but something was lost in the exploration part of it. Is it just me, or was the underwater world just a little too hard to navigate? I think the first person 3D just didn't work for the Metroid games... it made it a little disorientating.

Re:What happened.....

[G-funk]

You want duke nukem manhattan project. A bit old now, but still cool. It plays a lot like the old 2d duke scrollers.

Re:What happened.....

[Queer Boy]

to the good old side scrolling games?

You mean games like Viewtiful Joe? They're still around. Plus there's a ton more 2D games on Gameboy if that's your interest. They also happen to have outstanding graphics, witness Castlevania Aria of Sorrow.

There's also many genres of games besides platformers and action games that are not affected by 3D: sports, racing, puzzles, RPG. Yes, I miss games emphasizing detailed enviornments and music rather than the novelty of navigating a 3D world with a 2D device, that's why I have a Gameboy along with GCN and PS2.

Re:What happened.....

[grumbel]

'Paper Mario' is a RPG game in a 3d environment with an unusal graphics style and a nice round-based fight system that still requires timing, but its by far no classic sidescroller. It however contains many mixed in elements of the 'good old days' and makes fun of the older games here an there. But one really shouldn't expect a new MarioBros game of PaperMario, but more kind of like a 'FinalFantasy in comic-look'.

Re:What happened.....

[Osty]

Are you with me then that Metroid Prime just wasn't that great? Okay, wait... it was good, don't get me wrong, it was a beautful game, and fun to play, but something was lost in the exploration part of it. Is it just me, or was the underwater world just a little too hard to navigate? I think the first person 3D just didn't work for the Metroid games... it made it a little disorientating.

I never finished Prime. It was just too boring, and the control scheme was so bad that if I stopped playing for a week or two it would take me an hour or so before I got comfortable with it again (or as comfortable as possible with the brokenness -- there's something wrong with a control scheme when you have to rationalize it with, "Spend an hour on the game and you'll get used to it"). I stuck it out and made it pretty far, and I may go back and finish it some day, but the odds are pretty slim. The FPS view combined with the difficulty in looking up or down made many of the jumping puzzles very difficult. I don't know if it would've been better in a third-person perspective. For me, Metroid will always be a 2D platform adventure. I fear for the future of the franchise, with Prime 2 and Metroid Hunters on the DS, both in first person perspective. Remake Super Metroid for the GBA, and I'll be satisfied for a while.

Re:What happened.....

[grumbel]

The easiest way to get today the 'daily fix' of sidescrolling action on a Gamecube is to get a GameBoyPlayer to play all the GameBoyAdvance games on it, since thats where the sidescrolling games are today. It won't look much better (lower res, but more colors and effects) then SNES games ten years ago, but I for one had much more fun with MetroidFusion than with MetroidPrime.

The reason why they aren't doing any 3d games is probally because they simply sell less, or well, if marketing department thinks they sell less thats probally also enough to stop producing them. Today you can still find a new R-Type, Gradius or Contra game every few years, but thats basically all that you can find in 2d, sad truth.

Overall the hobby programming world might be worth a look for 2d stuff, there are still poping up a few good games here and there.

Windstille http://windstille.berlios.de/ for example might one day be a fun 2d jump'n run in a similar style to Metroid, but it still has a long road to go.

Re:What happened.....

[mo]

Side scrollers aren't completely dead.
R-Type Final is an amazingly good (and faithful to the original) side-scroller for the Playstation 2. It combines the 3D engine with the side-scrolling genre to produce some amazing effects.

Also note in the gamespot review for Metroid Prime 2 that there are certain side-scrolling elements in it as well. The example they gave is a boss that you fight in ball-mode from a fixed, 2D perspective.

That strikes me as a cool hack. I don't see why games should pin themselves to fully 3D or fully 2D but freely mix it up both presentations in one game. I seem to remember an oldschool version of Sonic the Hedgehog that did a good job of this.

Re:What happened.....

[tukkayoot]

Though I agree with you to a certain extent, that there aren't enough quality sidescrollers out there, I really do think that the jump to 3D has greatly improved the Metroid Series. There have already been several good sidescrolling Metroid games (although I never was really a fan of the series until MP), I think it's good that they continue to experiment and take the game in a somewhat different direction.

Metroid Prime is probably overall favorite console game to date. I guess it might be "blasphemy" to a die hard veteren of the classic series, the same way the Ocarina of Time was for many Zelda fans. I myself have always been a great Zelda fan, however, and OoT was my favorite console game until Metroid Prime dethroned it. So obviously the decision is not an entirely bad one, since Metroid Prime and the Ocarina of Time are two of the most critically acclaimed games of all time, and are often cited as favorites in their respective franchises even by people who have been fans of those franchises since their inception.

Others have pointed out a host of games that have been done in 2D. They aren't all classic franchises, but what does that matter? I think they did a 3D/mostly sidescrolling Contra a while back that I haven't seen anybody mention yet, too.

One franchise that I don't think has as gracefully entered the third dimension is the Mario series. Yoshi's Island is still my favorite Mario game. However, Mario 64 wrote the book on 3D platformers, so even if it isn't my favorite game, I respect the fact that it helped usher in the age of a genre that quite a lot of people enjoy. Maybe it's just that I'm frustrated by the fact that I seem to lack the skill to beat Super Mario Sunshine.

Personally, one thing I'd like to see is a 3D modelled, sidescrolling Castlevania, something which has controls like Symphony of the Night, but perhaps has more of a RPGish element, like Simon's Quest for the NES (since the SOTN formula has been done to death, albeit done masterfully, with the Castlevania GBA titles, and Simon's Quest is often mentioned as a favorite Castlevania title).

By and large, I happen to like 3D games better than 2D games. They usually look better, they usually feel more immersive, and in some ways they may be more flexible from a gameplay/design perspective. Sidescrolling still holds a special place in my heart though. One thing I do honestly fear is that the new crop of 3D capable handheld consoles kill off virtually all new, good 2D game development.

Re:What happened.....

[logic hack]

http://www.gamespot.com/ds/action/supermariobrosds /screenindex.html
Definatly a nice twist on a classic.

Re:What happened.....

[geminidomino]

Metroid Fusion was the only metroid game where you could hang on the edge of cliffs. Why? Because Samus is without her bulky suit in that game.

Or it could be that they hadn't thought of it, hadn't been able to work out the programming/physics of it, etc... Since she can also hang with a powerup in Zero Mission, which is a remake of the original Metroid (and rather well done, I might add) in which she does have the suit.

Re:What happened.....

[DavidD_CA]

I have to agree with you 100% and then some.

I'm not at all thrilled with the 3D games nearly as much as I was with the 2D stuff.

I want the old classics back, with better sound and graphics and more levels.

The other day I was itching to play a classic side-scroller like R-Type or Gradius and couldn't find one.

And, while listening to a bunch of MP3 remixes (www.ocremix.org) I came across tunes from Mega Man 2. What a great game!! Then they go and ruin it by adding all sorts of crazy new stuff that just muck with the original formula.

*sigh*

Re:What happened.....

[Anonymous Coward]

sidescrollers are way too rare.

I bought a gamecube for Ikaruga - a wonderful and original scrolling shooter. I hope Treasure makes many more of these.

Re:What happened.....

[Guppy06]

"I'm not at all thrilled with the 3D games nearly as much as I was with the 2D stuff."

I don't know about you, but when I was getting thrilled about 2D stuff back then, I was also thrilled that Santa Claus would be bringing them to me. People get older, things change, perspectives change. How good are those older 2D games without the advantage of nostalgia?

"Then they go and ruin it by adding all sorts of crazy new stuff that just muck with the original formula."

Network Transmission for the GCN oozes old-school Megaman goodness. Jump. Shoot. Slide. Now if only I could get the knack of the chip system (or if the normal buster was more than a pea-shooter...).

Re:What happened.....

[Guppy06]

"I guess though with the Nintendo DS, they're going to start recycling all the N64 3D games, so that legacy is pretty much over."

You're assuming a death of the Game Boy. At this point I'm not even sure Nintendo themselves could dream up a Game Boy killer, and according to their "third pillar" philosophy, they're not even trying.

The DS will probably have its share of N64 (and probably even PS1*) ports, but don't forget that it, too, plays GBA games.

*(Ow, my head hurts... I just envisioned FF7 on the DS...)

Re:What happened.....

[Guppy06]

"Metroid Fusion was the only metroid game where you could hang on the edge of cliffs."

Actually, it's also a special add-on ability in Metroid: Zero Mission. The only things she could do in MF that are still unique to that game are climbing ladders and moving across monkey bars (both of which are really neat tricks with only one manipulative hand).

"Why? Because Samus is without her bulky suit in that game."

So you're saying that, while her legs are powerful enough to propell her tens of meters up into the air, her arms don't have the ability to support her own weight?

Don't forget that she doesn't just "wear" the suit, IIRC she's also a cyborg and her body interaces with it a good deal and a lot of her capabilities are innate even without the suit (look at how well she jumps and takes abuse even without the suit in MZM). This is why they couldn't just "take it off" when it was infiltrated by the X.

Re:What happened.....

[Anonymous Coward]

DONT GET PAPER MARIO 2

Dont!

I picked it up.

Beautiful graphics, unique control, and an interesting twist on the mario world.

But, the dialogue. Holy shit the dialogue. If text has ever ruined any game, ever, its this one. I wanted to chuck the disk out of the window after reading some of this shit.

Re:What happened.....

[bludstone]

Dont worry. The 2d metroid gba games are some of the best selling games for the company. It would be a foolish financial decision for nintendo to abandon the format.

And you know how fiscally conservative nintendo is.

Re:What happened.....

[bludstone]

Gradius V is fucking amazing.

I pre-ordered it in feb. It was delayed for months.

When it finally came out, I was totally absorbed. It was like they took the dreams of "boy, I really wish they would remake x NES game with modern graphics" and perfected it.

Its jaw-droppingly gorgeous, and contains the frantic shmup gameplay of Lifeforce/Salamander/Gradius. 2 player simul, the options dont go away when you die.. and, well, mode-2 with the laser equipped makes you send out "waves" of beams. Its just incredible.

Re:What happened.....

[Anonymous Coward]

Gradius V was the first gradius game since gradius 4, which came out on snes. :/

Its also the best in the series, other then lifeforce/salamander.

Re:What happened.....

[bludstone]

Go get Gradius V (ps2). Now. It just came out a few months ago. $30 new.

You'll love yourself for it.

Re:What happened.....

[WhyCause]

I look at all the people, including me, who would like a side scroller with outstanding graphics - which could be done quite easily, and I don't see it happening.

Spider Man 2 for the Nintendo DS is exactly this; a 3D sidescroller that is apparently one of the best (looking and playing) launch games for the system.

I was reading a developer interview on IGN, and they said they had to use 3D for the models since they wouldn't have had enough space on the cartridges for all the animation frames if they hadn't.

Re:What happened.....

[buffer-overflowed]

Paper Mario isn't bad... it's a good game, but it's not nearly as good as SuperStar Saga.

The dialog is like they're targeting us older gamers, while trying to let new people in, and it just doesn't work about half the time.

So, if you weren't expecting a Mario RPG that was THAT good, you should enjoy it.

And Viewtiful Joe does in fact rule(I've been waiting for a game like it[natural evolution from the Genesis/Saturn/SNES style games] since the N64/Playstation days), can't wait for the sequel.

Re:What happened.....

[xnot]

What I would like to see is more anime movie-like gameplay: combining traditional hand-drawn side scrolling with an appropriate amount of 3D reorientation and cut scenes to give the 2D depth and imagination.

I remember when I first saw Street Fighter 3, how impressed I was with the animation. Is it that companies really don't know how to draw that kind of art any more?

I think in a way, 3D was an excuse not to spend so much time with drawn art, which takes time and is more difficult to create then 3D models (ironically, with today's tools.)

Fri57 psot

[Anonymous Coward]

and I proBably become an unwanted

ACTION REPLAY, DON'T LET US DOWN NOW!

[mcc]

...yes, obviously I'm joking and this is not the sort of thing that could realistically be implemented as an Action Replay code.

BUT I CAN DREAM

Beyond Your Prime

[tiktok]

It's a damned shame that the PC gaming industry lost such leading gaming figures such as Zoid to the metroidpolitan world of console gaming. Just imagine how great multiplayer products such as Quake 3 Arena and Doom 3 could have been with the creator of Capture The Flag leading the passionate fight towards network online gaming, and co-operative gaming in particular.

Re:Beyond Your Prime

[Anonymous Coward]

Zoid works at Retro Studios and was instrumental in making MP1 and MP2.

Re:Its not a name

[Anonymous Coward]

So, does anyone know where the name justin bailey came from?

Yeah, I already explained this above.

The password itself "fits" exactly into the Metroid password system -- it's not recognized and treated differently in any way. Unless they specifically engineered the password system around this password (while at the same time taking the easy approach by hard-coding the NARPASSWORD password), it's completely spurious.

Oh grrreat

[Anonymous Coward]

"If you've played Metroid Prime, you've essentially played Metroid Prime 2."

Wow, so it wasn't enough that they ruined one of my favourite game series by turning it into a crappy FPS, but they did nothing to rectify their transgressions in the sequel?

This is a real shame since all the Nintendo of Japan studio games can do 3D games w/o it being a crap FPS (e.g. mario 64, Zelda wind waker, etc.), or at least let you shift perspective outside of the character's visor - and let you do more than roll around as a ball while doing it. Meanwhile taking one of their better franchises and putting it into the hands of a non-.jp studio appears to have ruined it, aside from GBA metroid reprises Nintendo lost a lot of true fans here, IMHO.

Re:Oh grrreat

[Anonymous Coward]

Hahahaha.

You wish. The Metroid franchise couldn't be in a better position. Sure, Fusion was easy, but it was also well written, had nice graphics/sound and really drew you in. And Prime was so damn successful, they decided to bundle it with the GC.

Before Halo, Nintendo was the only console with *good* FPS games. Post-Halo, the score is still looking like this:

MS: Halo, Halo 2
Nintendo: Every FPS since Goldeneye.
Everyone else: Just proving that FPS-on-console is tough work, stick to the PC.

Re:Oh grrreat

[tgibbs]

Wow, so it wasn't enough that they ruined one of my favourite game series by turning it into a crappy FPS, but they did nothing to rectify their transgressions in the sequel?

I thought Metroid Prime did a wonderful job of translating everything I loved about the original game into 3D. Even my initial reservations about the first-person format were dispelled. I'm no fan of FPS games, but then MP isn't really a FPS. Indeed, I basically bought the GC for Metroid Prime, and found it well worth the cost. And for 2D purists, Nintendo is still turning out Metroid titles for GameBoy.

Re:Oh grrreat

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, I'd like to see Nintendo invest more in non-FPS Metroid games too (like maybe a kick-ass TPS, or Mario-style 3D platformer, or Zelda-style 3D adventure), but not at the expense of their FPS Metroid series, Metroid Prime. Westerners LOVE Metroid Prime. I happen to like it a lot too, even though first-person camera perspective is one of my least favorite ways to play games. With Metroid Prime, it just works very well, and the hunt & peck nature of aiming weapons with a console controller is not an issue.

The good thing is that there's nothing in the world keeping Nintendo from doing exactly this. I only hope that the 3D capabilities of the Nintendo DS don't prevent Nintendo from continuing to produce side-scrolling Metroid games. I have hope that this will be the case, seeing as how Zelda Four Swords Adventures was released in the 3D era of the GameCube, and Nintendo knows they have O.G. game fans to appease (the way Sony or Microsoft just can't, at least not on their own).

Re:Oh grrreat

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, so it wasn't enough that they ruined one of my favourite game series by turning it into a crappy FPS

Metroid Prime wasn't a FPS Metroid. It was Metroid FPS. I feel like I'm playing Metroid, but with a first shooter perspective, not the other way around. I don't know how you got it mixed up.

Re:Oh grrreat

[TrancePhreak]

Halo came out before Metroid Prime by a full year. The only good FPS on Nintendo hardware that I know of was Goldeneye. Perfect Dark was glitchy and the AI was really bad. Turok had issues abound, expecially fog.

Re:Oh grrreat

[Anonymous Coward]

I tottally agree.

This game will be a 5 star.

8 for sound?

[Anonymous Coward]

How does it get an 8 for sound? The original had the best sound ever. Great mood music, and you found hidden stuff by listening to the warble sounds from beyond the walls. It wasn't even possible to find all the stuff without surround sound turned on.

Unless MP2:Echoes has far worse sound than the original, these people are on complete crack.

Who Cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wake me when the sequel to Katamari Damacy launches.

Re:Who Cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hah, a mainstream quirky game n00b nerd. "I only play games that everyone in the world says are non-mainstream and good!"

Quick, name the last non-Katamari Damacy quirky game you've played. ...

Yeah.

tired of the game cube is dead argument

[ocularDeathRay]

I keep hearing about how the game cube is dead and there are NO good games... buy an xbox etc.... I am sick of it. there are some great games for gamecube still being released. this is a PRIME (/me ducks) example. PSOIII is also a good example IMHO. these games really are breaking ground if you ask me. yes this particular game may be similar to prime1 but I don't see anyone else in the industry making games like these. besides. any system that you can play Ikaruga on is not dead!

Re:tired of the game cube is dead argument

[Anonymous Coward]

besides. any system that you can play Ikaruga on is not dead!

You know that Ikaruga was originally on the Dreamcast, don't you?

Re:tired of the game cube is dead argument

[ocularDeathRay]

yes. That is why I said ANY system. not THE system.

Lack of Innovation

[swerk]

As a rabid fan of Metroid games ever since the original 8-bit wonder, I find myself surprised to agree.

On the one hand, I want it to feel something like the Metroid experience I've had over several games in the past. I want to explore and gun down ugly creatures and have tough-as-nails boss fights and find enough upgrades to become a complete badass by the end of the game. But if I want it to feel all new at the same time, I'm fooling myself.

Of all the Metroid titles over the years, I've been least excited by Echoes for some reason. Zero Mission was good, but come to think of it I wasn't anticipating that one too wildly either. I think it's largely because it uses a same-engine, new-data model, like the MegaMan games or any annually-released sports title. At the same time, I'm pretty damn sure I'll be picking this up, and I'd be very surprised if I were disappointed.

Some games lend themselves to new directions better than others. Metroid actually seems pretty good at it. It's done non-linear and linear 2D, and it's done 1st person 3D, all quite well, and all keeping surprisingly close to its roots. I'm very anxious to see how it holds up in a more traditional shooter/deathmatch format on the DS. I think reaching out in these different directions is more exciting than going further on any one established path, but I don't want to dismiss evolutionary stepping either. After all, if Metroid II hadn't taken some new ideas and a bunch of old ones, and had III not done the same, we would have missed out on some really killer games.

Point? Oh, I don't know if I even have a point. Lack of "new and different" can be disappointing, and might feel at times like we're buying the same thing over and over again, but in those terms, I'd pick on sports games and traditional first-person shooters WAY before I'd pick on Metroid.

After reading some of these posts

[Pluvius]

I have to wonder how many of the people who defend Nintendo for making sequels with incremental updates also attack EA for doing the same thing.

Rob

Re:After reading some of these posts

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably less than you think, Rob. Your glasses are just a liiiiittle bit tinted when it comes to Nintendo (or any corporate gaming entity other than Microsoft, for that matter), aren't they.

Re:After reading some of these posts

[WWWWolf]

Nintendo builds on previous games. They're always improving something, and at the very least, they try to maintain the same level of quality. And every now and then, they always come up with something completely new and refreshing.

EA, on the other hand, buys brilliant, talented design teams, and make them produce unimaginative sequels - excuse me - products, which have diabolically maximized profitability in form of Mass-Market Appeal, and Familiarity with Existing Products.

Was that clear enough?

Re:After reading some of these posts

[Zangief]

Because:

-This is not an incremental upgrade. They redid the entire world, reusing only the engine.
-They do not release Mario 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, etc. There are a lot of sequels, yes, but not every year, and each is CLEARLY different. Madden, FIFA and all EA Sports is just the same, with different roosters. Face it.
-Nintendo doesn't buy good companies and make them release shit (see the ultima games and a LOT of other examples).

EA is all evil in the industry. I stealed the following lines
from a post in penny-arcade.

1) Release their sports lineup each year with only slight improvements and still charge $50

2) Buy great developers and turn them into crap

3) Buy every license they can and churn out cookie cutter games

4) Work their employees 70 hours a week with no compensation

5) Ignore the Dreamcast completely (While supporting the n-gage. Explain that.)

6) Brainwash the masses into thinking their products are actually good.
--
Wiki de Ciencia Ficcion y Fantasia

Re:After reading some of these posts

[Zangief]

D'oh, I messed up the link.

Here is the thread where I took that list from

Re:After reading some of these posts

[Osty]

Nintendo builds on previous games. They're always improving something, and at the very least, they try to maintain the same level of quality.

They built on Mario 64 by giving Mario a water-jet backpack, and maintained the same level of quality as Mario 64 in Mario Sunshine. Sadly, Mario Sunshine was a Gamecube game, so one would've expected it to surpass the quality of a N64 title. It didn't.

Nintendo doesn't shit gold. Nobody does, not even Valve. Nintendo does make some fun games, but they also make repetitive games, and they get stuck taking the safe route of adding one or two new "innovations" to an existing title (oo! You now have a second person in your racing kart! And nothing else changed ...) and calling it new. That doesn't mean the new game is any less fun, but it does seem about as redundant as buying Madden 2004 when you already have Madden 2003 (of course, if you must have that roster update, what are you going to do?).

In my opinion, game developers would be better off if they took Ben Affleck's advice (paraphrased from Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back). "You gotta do the safe [game]. Then you can do the art [game]. But then sometimes you gotta do the payback [game] because your friend says you owe him. And sometimes, you have to go back to the well." Game developers do the "safe" game, and then just keep going back to that well. Sometimes you get the art game (Katamari Damacy, for example), but those are very rare.

Re:After reading some of these posts

[Pluvius]

How do you know how many people I think have a double-standard concerning Nintendo and EA's respective innovativeness? Are you a psychic?

BTW, I'd like to see proof that I have a bias toward Microsoft. I think Halo is one of the most overrated games of the past five years, and a lot of that probably has to do with MS's effect on that game after Bungie was purchased. I didn't even buy an XBox until they went down in price a while ago.

That said, I might treat corporate gaming entities in general with a strong level of criticism whenever I believe it's merited, but I don't see how that's a bad thing.

Rob

Re:After reading some of these posts

[Pluvius]

Madden, FIFA and all EA Sports is just the same, with different roosters.

Sorry, but the only people who say this honestly are the ones who've never played more than one edition of one of those titles for more than five minutes. That statement is simply false, especially if you expect me to agree that MP2 is all that different from MP1 even though the gameplay is (according to Gamespot) the same.

I agree that EA destroys other companies like Origin and Bullfrog and is generally a blight on the video game industry, but that's not relevant to this issue. When people complain about EA, it's almost always with reference to how Madden 2005 is the same as Madden 2004, not how all of the second-party titles EA touches turn into dust.

Rob

Re:After reading some of these posts

[Zangief]

I have played FIFA since the genesis. There was certainly a good change since the 3DO version, forced by the pass to 3D. And another step forward in the current console generation. So I could say there are 3 FIFA's. The 16 bit one, the 32 bit one and the current (in which bit notation is useless).

The three incarnations are bad games, anyway. There are minor gameplay adjustment, as you can expect, but is always the same. The konami Football (well, soccer) games are WAY better.

I have played Nascar Thunder 2003 and 2004. Nascar 2004 looks slightly better, but is the same crappy game.

Madden I have only seen. I am not a fan of American Football, but, I don't think is much different.

The main feature of these games always are slightly better graphics (except in the jump between console generations, and I can predict that even this will be less noticeable in the next gen), and a bigger player database.

MP2, is almost the same engine, and a completely new game, world, enemies. If you think it is anything like the trash that EA sports churns out every year, you are blind.
--
Wiki de Ciencia Ficcion y Fantasia

Gamecube?

[MicroBerto]

People own Gamecubes?? I thought that was just a made-up name or something...

Re:Gamecube?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does Microsoft sell rocks for people to hide under or something?

Re:Gamecube?

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft has not sold all that many more XBox's than Nintendo has sold Gamecubes. And of course (obligatory reference to Japan) in Japan, XBox does not even register.

So it pretty much sucks?

[miyako]

If you've played Metroid Prime, then you've pretty much played Metroid Prime 2
I know this isn't the opinion that a good little slashbot is supposed to have, but I have to say that I HATED Metroid Prime. Super Metroid is I think one of the best examples of what happens when a game just comes together to make something absolutely perfect. Metroid Prime I think is the perfect example of what happens when a game is forced into a genre it should have never gone into.
Although I've never personally been a fan of first person games, I purchased Metroid Prime, because I'd heard so much good about it, and I thought that it would be extremely hard to screw up a metroid game. I was wrong.
The control scheme I found was severely lacking, platforming is nearly impossible because of the view, and it sucks having to scan everything.

Re:So it pretty much sucks?

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet, people who are accustomed to playing FPS games, or who prefer them, find no problem controlling Metroid Prime.

Just because you don't like FPS as much as these people doesn't mean that Metroid was shoehorned into the FPS genre inappropriately. It's a great fit, really. But you can't expect an FPS with the Metroid name attached to it to change your mind about FPS altogether.

I don't like FPS, but Metroid Prime is aces with me. It's not the same as other FPS in terms of gameplay, for one thing, and the familiar nature of all the classic Metroid elements keeps me interested.

Thanks to MP, MP2 is the only FPS I've eagerly anticipated. And yes, I will be playing it tonight after work. :)

Re:So it pretty much sucks?

[TrancePhreak]

Way to make a broad overreaching statement. I have no trouble in controlling any well made FPS, but Metroid Prime is just aggrivating. Gunvalkyrie controls better.

Re:So it pretty much sucks?

[Anonymous Coward]

Metroid Prime is not an fps and if you think it is then you definitely shouldn't be playing it.

Re:So it pretty much sucks?

[Kiryat Malachi]

I very much liked MP's control scheme.

I like FPSs too.

Everybody's different. A lot of games, I change the scheme significantly (e.g. Timesplitters 2, I use a heavily modified scheme from the default.)

(Haven't played Gunvalkyrie, so no comparison there.)

Re:So it pretty much sucks?

[Brand X]

Timesplitters 2, I use a heavily modified scheme from the default.

Heh. I actually modified my scheme in Timesplitters 2 to be *more like* the scheme in Metroid Prime. I've played a lot of PC FPSs, and a few on consoles (Halo, for example), and can handle the controls, but Metroid Prime is the only (technically) FPS I can think of where it feels like the controls are an asset, not another challenge to overcome. I prefer puzzles to shooting, and I really appreciated being able to let the FPS aspects take a back seat, thanks to the targetting system and the rather natural jumps. Yeah, there should have been a way to lower the angle of view for jumps, and your feet should have been visible... but otherwise, there was a smooth arc that is missing from so many FPS jumps...

Re:So it pretty much sucks?

[TrancePhreak]

One of the things I really hated was that they made you do platformer style jumps but you can't see where you're jumping. This makes every jump a leap of faith. Mario 64 was third person, so it can be easier to see where you are jumping to. 2D Metroid games allow you to do jumping puzzles because you see where they are. All in all, I think it would have been much better to have made a game that plays in 2D with 3D models and such.

Re:So it pretty much sucks?

[Crescens]

But if you already state you dislike first person games, is a Metroid game supposed to change that immediately? I've heard this same statement plenty times and still don't get it.

SCREW ATTACK!

[Jace of Fuse!]

Just two words...

SCREW ATTACK!

YES YES YES!

It has made it's way into Metroid Prime 2!!!

I loved the first one, and literally went without sleep for days playing it, even replaying it on hard!

My only real complaint was the lack of Screw Attack! And it's in there now!!!!!

Re:SCREW ATTACK!

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you a girl?

Because I've been searching my whole life for a cute girl who loves the Screw Attack.

The fact that the Screw Attack was pioneered by a woman in a fitted spacesuit is no boner deterrent, either.

Re:SCREW ATTACK!

[geminidomino]

Ok, that frightens me a little bit...

While the screw attack does, indeed, r0x0r your b0x0rz, it is, at it's core, a "flip" move (thus the name).

I REALLY hope I don't have to land jumps while flipping in First-Person mode...

Re:SCREW ATTACK!

[PolyDwarf]

Hmm... So what happens when you combine the Screw Attack with "... resuming their position behind Samus' computer-enhanced visor."?

Apparently, a good game. Hopefully, a good naughty game. :)

Metroid Hentai... You know you want to play it..

Re:SCREW ATTACK!

[Jace of Fuse!]

I REALLY hope I don't have to land jumps while flipping in First-Person mode...

This seems to be used less for attacks and more for scaling walls for the Wall-Jump, a technique that served as a rite of passage for true Metroid fans.

Mastering the Wall-Jump was the difference between 70% and 100% item recovery.

Re:SCREW ATTACK!

[geminidomino]

I can see wall-jumping being rather disorienting in FP view too...

Still, with the exception of Zelda:MM and WW, Nintendo hasn't let me down before, so I ain't worried too much about it.

Re:SCREW ATTACK!

[Have Blue]

Then I think you get that crazy guy from Dead Leaves.

Re:SCREW ATTACK!

[Jace of Fuse!]

This is all off topic, but how was WindWaker a letdown? I think Wind Waker was an outstanding Zelda game, and I'm not alone.

Majora's Mask, on the other hand....

Re:SCREW ATTACK!

[geminidomino]

You might not be alone, but I'm not in that group with you.

I didn't like the graphics or the music(minor complaints), I didn't like the storyline, I didn't like the nose-leading ("Proceed directly to your objective!" or whatever that stupid boat said) and didn't like that once you CAN go around free, it takes forever to sail from one side of the world to the other (until you get the warps).

There was very little I *DID* like about WW, in fact.

Re:SCREW ATTACK!

[Artificer]

Wow, combine this post with the post about resuming your position behind Samus, and we get into all sorts of interesting areas....

My 2 Cents

[ripbruger]

I've been reading the comments posted before this one, and I have to agree with a few in that the tag line left behind my gamespot puts a negative slant on the game. At the same time, I've read the complaints that others have posted about how this is just an incremental update; and I don't disagree with that claim either. The way I look at it, however, is that at least when I go to drop $60 (that's Canadian $) on the game, I'm not going to be overly disappointed. I really loved the first game, and I'd be kinda P.O.'ed if the game was way different than the original.
It's the same when playing something like Half-Life 2; while I agree the game is big, and has a lot of hype behind it, it's still a continuation of the gameplay in the original game. The difference between Metroid Prime and Half Life, is that one had a longer development time than the other, so you're going to see more changes on the technical level.
I guess it doesn't matter what the reason is why you like or don't like the game, it's how much fun you have with it, and how much you're willing to invest in future releases. The people who like the series will most likely buy the game. Those that don't, obviously won't. I really can't see why people have to complain about something they're not going to play or bother with.

Re:Its not a name

[Blublu]

Whoa... it really DOES work! I tried it out, and it worked. That's very neat. :)

Go buy a Gameboy Advance

[Anonymous Coward]

...problem solved.

After they turned it into 3d blasphemy they should have renamed it.

Your bizarre elitism is preventing you from recognizing one of the best games of this generation.

2D vs 3D

[Anonymous Coward]

personally i would love an appropriately decked-out 2D supermetroid engine spanning endlessly across a whole gamecube disk.. ::daydreams::

Re:2D vs 3D

[Anonymous Coward]

Im with you.

I just want a MASSIVE 2d world to explore.

Like, play through all of super metroid, then on to another planet.

Then another.
Then another.
Then another.

But you can go back to the other planets via the ship.

Now that would be fun.

it's not an FPS

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a puzzle platformer in 3D. Deal with it. The system is great for what it is for, and that isn't for fragging-style fast combat.

Yes, it locks the wrong thing once in a while, but are you saying you never missed with the traditional controls either?

Re:Its not a name

[geminidomino]

That is *really* scary since Metroid predates Zero-wing and AYBABTU. Could "ZIG" have NOT been an accident?!

or maybe it just has the right checksum to work as a password...

Things that make you go "uhh....."

You need a Gameboy Advance

[ink]

Metroid Fusion is an excellent side-scroller, to start off with.

Sequence breaking?

[Spleener12]

I'm curious as to whether or not Retro managed to make this game as sequence-breakable as its predecessors.

Prime contained a lot of ways to do things out of order to the point where it was possible to finish the game in a little over an hour (impressive given the fact that it's designed to be done in 7-15 or so). But then someone between them and the Nintendo higher-ups (I'd like to think it was Nintendo) ordered as many of these to be removed as possible in later (PAL, Japanese, NA Player's Choice) versions- for example, in the original it was possible to get to the Plasma beam room without the Spider Ball or the Grappling beam, but in the Player's Choice version there was a lock placed on the door to the room that went away when you got the grappling beam. I'm surprised you didn't get a picture of a middle finger when you scanned the thing.

Hopefully over time people will discover as many ways to sequence-break Prime 2 as they did Prime 1. At the very least it won't be as bad as Fusion in this regard.

Re:Sequence breaking?

[Dimensio]

I thought that the impositions were odd, given that it was really more of a powergamer thing to do (getting to the Plasma Beam room door early was not for novices, nor were many of the other sequence break). Still, it's not like they stopped all sequence breaking (just some of the more fun ones).

Also, Metroid: Zero Mission was designed with sequence-breakers in mind. There's an established 'sequence' of items to obtain, but the devs actually created little hidden methods for bypassing them for the power gamers, so it is possible to take out Ridley first, or to go through the game without grabbing the Varia or some other "essential" items with a special ending specifically for those who completed the game with a very low (under 15% IIRC) percentage. I wonder if that mentality carried over into MP2.

Re:Sequence breaking?

[n0wak]

The thing with Metroid Prime is that it wasn't really intended to be sequence-breakable (ask Retro). There were just a bunch of pleasant accidents discovered by many obsessive people, many of which used slight bugs and exploits.

They removed a lot of the things for the European release (like the all important jump-off-your-ship to get the boots RIGHT AT THE START trick) because, well, because they were "bugs".

I don't understand why they couldn't have seen this community using those bugs and just kept them in, but if anything, I think they wanted a really linear experience. HOPEFULLY, they've learned a bit since Prime (and Zero Mission should have clued them in to it) and did incorporate such features, but I'm not holding my breath.

Re:Sequence breaking?

[Anonymous Coward]

Echoes doesn't need much sequence breaking, because the levels are so well-designed.

(spoilers!)

1's main problem with its item sequences was that you were basically waiting for your next hint. In several parts of the game, you had to hike across 2/3rds of the map to get the next item.

In Echoes, the hardest part (and the one most might miss initially) is thinking in two worlds at once. Once you get the hang of that, you start seeing 'paths' you can follow around the world to get where you want.

"in the original it was possible to get to the Plasma beam room without the Spider Ball or the Grappling beam"

I'd like to see that.

In prime, the room adjoining the Plasma Processing room was a volcanic pit with several pumps inside: the plasma cannon was in a small room very close to the ceiling, and you started on the very bottom of the room. You needed the grapple beam to swing to the second-lowest pump (the jump is too far to make) and the spider-ball to activate the pumps. Then, you needed the spider-ball to traverse around the edge of the room near the ceiling to make it to the door itself.

Don't you mean...

[sokoban]

Metroid (metroid) Prime (prime) 2: (2:) Echoes (echoes) Launches (launches launches lau...)

Nintendo systems are always released on Sundays nt

[Anonymous Coward]

no text

So this is news?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Retro hasn't mucked with the original, winning formula, so veterans of the first game will feel quite at home resuming their position behind Samus' computer-enhanced visor."

So nothing has changed. No new technology. The same old game with new levels. This is worthy of a Slashdot news article how?

I suspect the GameSpy people are getting something out of this pointless plug.

Coming from someone who got HL2 thanks to a store

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the same when playing something like Half-Life 2; while I agree the game is big, and has a lot of hype behind it, it's still a continuation of the gameplay in the original game.

Not at all. And you couldn't possibly say that, having not played the game yet. I have played it. LIGHT YEARS ahead of the first (and any other FPS I have played, including Doom 3).

My hopes for MP2E

[Argon Sloth]

Like many other posters, I was utterly appalled when I heard Prime would be a FPS. It didn't turn out to be, but it was very close. After seeing the reviews, I was prompted to play it. Once I reached Flaagra, I became a convert. As think was officially added into the standard FPS formula of point & shoot. The one thing I found missing, however, was the game still felt too linear to me, for something labelled Metroid. I noticed Fusion had the same problem. The key powerups must be found in a set order. In my opinion, the most alluring part of any of the previos Metroid games was the ability to do things in pretty much any order (assuming you had the skill to do so). As long as you started with the morphball, bombs, and a pack of missles and finished with Mother Brain/Metroid Queen. I think Nintendo was picking up on fon feedback when making Zero Mission. Sequence breaking was back in, as well as the addition of alternate goals (eg: finish with less than 15% of the pickups). And it was only through sequence breaking that one could achieve the goal of 100% of pickups in under 2 hours play time. Any how I'm starting to go off topic here. My point is that although Prime was the First Metroid game to allow one to change the difficulty rating, this does not offer the same replayability as sequence breaking which is what made the open concept of (Super) Metroid so interesting. In short, had Metroid Prime 2 been a repackaging of Metroid Prime with the same weapons, bosses, etc. and the only new component being sequence breaking, I would be pleased.

Re:My hopes for MP2E

[Dasaan]

The one thing I found missing, however, was the game still felt too linear to me, for something labelled Metroid.

If you followed the prompts that you receive every now and then then yes it is pretty liner. However it is possible to go exploring and find new upgrades that let you go into areas earlier than normal.
Just take a look here to see how.

Free games?

[MMaestro]

Not to nitpick but the three games you use as an example are not exactly 'free' either. American taxpayers paid for America's Army, Nethack is in a special case supported by donations and people with tons of free time and Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory was supposed to be an add-on to the original Return to Castle Wolfenstein so people who bought the original basicly paid for it for everyone else.

dear god

[CAIMLAS]

I have two friends that played Metroid Prime for 12 or more hours a day for 3 weeks straight, and still didn't get anywhere near done with it (I think they said roughly half-way through).

If you think the mazes in the original Metroid films were convoluted and long, you've seen nothing yet. The Metroid Prime 2 game needs a better map system so it's not frustrating and maze-like.

Re:dear god

[Hormonal]

Were your friends dropped as children? Microwaved? Eat a lot of paint? If they couldn't make their way through the game with a map that often shows the next objective, perhaps it's because they kept drooling on the controller, making things hard to control.

Methinks they played the game so ferociously because they couldn't find their way out of the room with the TV, and nobody checked on them for 3 weeks.

Door Jump Nightmares

[Strick-9]

Gamespot: ...you'll rarely interact with friendly characters throughout the game, so Echoes effectively re-creates the feeling of solitude in an alien world that's so integral to the Metroid experience.

Dude yeah. I remember having nightmares about getting myself stuck all alone above the top of the Tourian level after using the door-jump trick. Yikes.

Quit giving Xbox fans a bad name

[AlexMax2742]

Quit giving Xbox fans a bad name

Memories...

[DaneelGiskard]

...I played the original Metroid on the NES...and I loved it...along with Ikarus...Zelda...Ice Breaker was great too ;-) Maybe I should get a console again :-)

Re:Here's a good idea

[fondue]

" I think is the perfect example of what happens when a game is forced into a genre it should have never gone into."

It didn't. Metroid Prime is not an FPS.

Too bad you suck at the controls and are too impatient to play the game properly, but that isn't the game's fault.

The Breeding

[Adrilla]

Don't just breed the characters, breed the suits!

Great game

[Darkn3ss]

Giving xbox fans a bad name isn't hard. I mean multi-player is sorta fun, but Metroid Prime destroyed Halo in every aspect of originality, and now Metroid Prime 2 is doing the same.

Re:Great game

[Rawr Munkey]

|\/|3TR01|) P|21|\/|3 11 1$ 73|-| $u(|1|\|3$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!! 17 |\/|4|)3 |\/|Y P|4$|\/|4 7\/ B|0w uPz0|2$!!!! |\|0W 1 4|\/| $4|), 4|\||) 1 74|| L1|3 T|-|1$ B3c4u$e 1 4|\/| $4D. :(

Re:Nintendo systems are always released on Sundays

[Anonymous Coward]

Nintendo systems are released on Sundays because Nintendo systems must be treated with reverance and prayerful rejoicing.

TROLL????

[Anonymous Coward]

The guy is making some decent points here, why the hell is it a troll?

I loved playing Metroid Prime but he's not trolling.

No, it really is a coincidence

[Anonymous Coward]

The old developers have confirmed it. It is a completely random chance.

But go ahead and pretend they created an obscure reference to a British term for "bikini."