Some iPod Fans Dump PCs For Macs

dereklam writes "The popularity of the iPod could be boosting Macs' popularity as well. News.com reports that 6 percent of iPod users have made the switch from PCs to Macs. An additional 7 percent said they are planning to dump their old PC for an Apple machine, according to the survey." I wish the linked story had more details; it's not clear from the results mentioned whether there's a strong causal relationship here.

Comments

Still a small margin

[Trigun]

Personally, I choose my peripherals based on my OS/Hardware, not the other way around.

Re:Still a small margin

[InternationalCow]

Well, if the peripheral is cool enough, the OS/hardware may not be that important. Ease of use and coolness factor count for a lot in the choice of gadget, you know. I do know for myself that the iApps (mostly iTunes these days, Picasa is quite good) are keeping me on the Mac. Although I wonder if the opposite happens: people who "defect" to Windows because iTunes/iPod also work with Windows and you can buy a hell of a lot more hardware four your dollar/euro in Intel/AMD land than in Applistan (example in point: my powerbook costs 3500 euro. I can buy a fully decked out Hypersonic EX7 for that amount of cash....). Anyone??

Re:Still a small margin

[slash-tard]

I get the point but a lot of peripherals work better on a Mac. The iPod syncs better, importing and editing video is easier, and if you want to use iPhoto its a lot smoother than anything Ive seen on a PC. On top of this bluetooth and iSync.

The x86 PC has more options and cheaper options but I would rather have something work better than it be a few bucks cheaper and be a hassle in the long run.

Re:Still a small margin

[Mik3D]

That is why you will never be in the "main stream". Most people choose the tools that allow them to do the task they want... be that graphics design, web surfing, or listining to music.

I fear the Slashdot crowd is more inclined to choose tasks based on the tools they want to use, the oposite of the "main stream".

Re:Still a small margin

[cbiagini]

You're missing the point.

The iPod is just bringing Apple into the public eye; the computers are selling themselves.

Re:Still a small margin

[Fulcrum of Evil]

you can buy a hell of a lot more hardware four your dollar/euro in Intel/AMD land

For $2500, you can get a very nice G5 PowerMac running OSX. You can pay less for a Dell (corporate versions only, please), but the G5 will likely last longer, and the OS will be less screwed up after 2 years. Hardware has gotten to a point where good enough is comparatively cheap, but software is still a large differentiator - my next computer will be a G5.

Re:Still a small margin

[Gleef]

I think it's less a choice to go to a mac because they have an iPod, but more the whole iPod thing gets them going into the Apple Store, or the Apple Website.

While they're there, they notice the other nifty things (like computers), and get pleasantly surprised by the price and/or cool factor and/or features. And then they think about switching.

Personally I'm happy running my Linux on my frankenstein's monsters, but having been in an Apple Store I can see the appeal.

Re:Still a small margin

[Gyorg_Lavode]

for $2500 I'm having a rack-mount 1TB SATA RAID5 linux server built for home use.
For $1300 I can build a top of the line gaming machine. (I guess I could spend $2500 and get Alienware or Dell stamped on it.)

Re:Still a small margin

[hendridm]

Personally, I choose my peripherals based on my OS/Hardware, not the other way around.

Hard to say. I think it has more to do with brand recognition than the desire to buy a computer that more "natively" supports your iPod. Because their purchase of the iPod has increased their brand recognition of Apple and also made them think, "Hey, this Apple company makes some cool stuff. If their computers are half as cool as this, it's sure to be pretty swell."

It doesn't really matter what OS/hardware the average person uses to surf the 'net and check e-mail. The user interface and experience may be more useful to these people, something that Apple is good at.

Re:Still a small margin

[iamacat]

So? You chose a top-of-the line professional model. Current Intel 17' notebooks are also >2K (PowerBook is $2700 in US). Otherwise you can "make do" with an $1300 14' iBook. Actually my friend is looking for an Intel notebook with comparible price and features. Here is what he wants:

• Reasonable weight. No 8 pound monsters, please
  
• 3D graphics, TV output
  
• Built in wireless and CD burner
  
• 5 or more hours battery life without swapping
  
• Pleasent, big keys on the keyboard
  
• No sharp edges or breakable components on the outside when folded
  
• A sturdy case in some color other than black or "Windows XP Space theme". Please no Dell black plastic"
  

So where is the superior, cheap Intel hardware?

Re:Still a small margin

[ZorinLynx]

Don't be so sure he's an idiot... When you can't decide among several choices, because they're all good cars, sometimes little things like a 6-disc CD changer or XM radio can be the hair that balances the scale toward a particular model.

I know if I drove two cars with similar handling, price, and appealing appearence, the presence of something like an in-dash MP3 player or GPS navigation system would seal the choice. }:)

-Z

Re:Still a small margin

[colin_n]

I used to buy peripherals based on os/hardware. However, I bought an iPod for my commute into NYC last summer. As a result of my positive experience, I purchased a powerbook last november, an iPod Mini for my girlfriend last February, Airport Express a couple of months ago, and I advised my Mom to get the iMac G5 about a month ago (which she loves by the way better than her previous PC running winxp).
So lets see... after spending 500 bucks for an iPod, Apple has received a further $3500+ purely because I liked their little white music player. Case in point. I dont know how many others

Re:Still a small margin

[hey!]

Well, why there is probably less to this than meets the eye, there is probably more to it than you suggest.

It isn't about choosing your computer to suit your peripherals -- you can use an iPod with a Windows box. I think it's more like this. Maybe you had a flash based player before. Clunky, inelgant, with a totally brain damaged idea of what "style" entails. You get an iPod, and realize that it is everything your old player ought to have been: convenient, elegant and sleek.

Then one day while you are listening to your iPod and working on your probably popup infested computer, you have two epiphanies.

Epiphany 1: Windows is clunky and inelegant and ugly.

Epiphany 2: Apple makes computers.

Re:Still a small margin

[mrchaotica]

I guess I could spend $2500 and get Alienware or Dell stamped on it.

And that's exactly why the "Macs are overpriced because I can build my own box cheaper" doesn't hold water. When you buy a name-brand computer, you get all the guarantees, service, and convenience that go with it. Is it worth the extra cost? Maybe, maybe not. But as a person who has both built my own computer and bought a Mac, I believe it most definitely is. Of course, my Mac is a laptop -- if I were considering a Mac desktop (and I am, but not for a while) it might be less worth it (but still worth it).

Oh, and I don't mean to say that all name brands are worth it, and I wouldn't even consider a Dell or Alienware, but between the unique stuff Apple offers (OS X, for one) and their excellent support (e.g. fixing my iBook with a ~5 day turnaround with free overnight shipping, including shipping me the box to pack it in), Macs are absolutely worth their price.

Re:Still a small margin

[waynelorentz]

Comparing eMachines to Apple is like comparing a Cavalier to a Jaguar. Both do the job. One is built better, works better, and does does the job with style.

Re:Still a small margin

[hey!]

elegant and sleek.
are these the criteria that make a computer good?

Dude, you are talking to a man who in twenty years never failed to lose the case of his computer, at least until I switched to laptops.

That said, you should come down off your high horse. Good design is better than bad design. And poseurs in my experience tend to gravitate towards the latter (SUVs like the Hummer being a case in point -- a more perfect match of ugliness, stupidity and appeal to insecurity has never graced the road).

Good design is more than skin deep: it complements, and in some cases even enhances functionality. My family always drove Buicks when I grew up, and they always had overwrought (bad) instrument panels. I remember my mom muttering as she struggled to set the temperature with a ridiculous thumb wheel control that required something like ten turns to go from one extreme to another so that it could drive a stupid bar graph indicator gadget.

Why pretty much epitomizes bad design: slap some chrome or some gimmick on as an afterthought in order to make a statement.

By contrast, the instrument panel in my accord is almost zen like in its simplicity. It is logical, well laid out, and doesn't have anything that is unnecessary. But it manages to be elegant and is a pleasure to use.

Which epitomizes good design: logic, efficiency, organization and a concern for the user.

Re:Still a small margin

[Toraz Chryx]

"and has no dual-channel DDR. "

You were headed towards a point until you got to that..

All PowerMac G5's have dual channel DDR400 (except for the 1.6Ghz Rev A's which have dual channel DDR333)

Re:Still a small margin

[robvs68]

"Most people choose the tools that allow them to do the task they want... be that graphics design, web surfing, or listining to music."

No. Most people (buying a home computer) buy winTel out of ignorance, fear, or lemming mentality, not because they've determined that it is the best tool for the job. (Yes, there are plenty of "smart" people that buy winTel because they like it - don't get your panties in a twist)

People who buy out of ignorance just don't know any better and are not interested/too lazy to look at other options. People who buy out of fear, do so because they are afraid of change and just want to stick with what is familiar to them. And the lemmings, of course, buy winTel because "if that's what everyone is buying, it must be the superior product."

Most typical home computer tasks are handled as well or better on a Mac (web, email, word processing, digital photography, digital video). The only common "task" that a winTel may handle better is games, but only because of availablity of certain games, not useability.

Re:Still a small margin

[hawaiian717]

I just checked the eMachines site. eMachines Athlon 64 notebooks look like a great deal. But they weigh 7.5 lbs. A friend of mine has one, and I noticed it was much heavier than my 4.9 lb iBook.

Re:Still a small margin

[waynelorentz]

Sorry. Not everyone lives in their mom's basements. Some of us live in the real world.

Your argument is invalid because all of its points have been refuted successfully in this thread and elsewhere on Slashdot, the internet, and the real world.

Apple managed to make a computer that is both elegant and good at its task. Get over it.

There are people in this world with more money than you, and the right to spend it the way they want. Get over it.

Apple's products are not overpriced. It doesn't matter how many times you say it, it's simply not true. Get over it.

Some people have different product requirements than you do. Get over it.

In summary: Get over yourself.

Re:Still a small margin

[Cmdr-Absurd]

$499 will never buy you the "latest tech." It will buy you shared memory for graphics, a 'fast enough' chipset, and maybe a bargain basement 15" lcd. you can buy an emac for $1000 if you want last year's tech (that you define as the latest) You can even get an iBook for $1000. And it would come with a dedicated graphics card that doesn't share system RAM. If you really want to get a Dell comparable to a dual G5 tower, you need to look into the Precision Workstation line. And I think you will find that you will spend more $$ up front for a Dual processor intel box in that case.

Re:Still a small margin

[tonejava]

I would recommend you give a mac a try. I got mine also for development purposes and haven't looked back since (12" PowerBook). Again linux is a cheaper alternative but keeping the Mac up to date is much simpler.

Re:Still a small margin

[mgv]

Yes but at that price, you'll still have to wait 20 months longer for every game to come out. And some games probably would never reach Mac land.

I respect the iPod, though it's still buggy. That's a different story altogether.

This is an interesting turnaround. Because if you feel that way about an iPod, and a lot of people do, then you suddenly realise that in one area having an apple computer will be better. In fact, the area which apple excels in (no pun intended) is the iLife series. I have a friend who bought a powerbook solely for iMovie/iDVD, and others for GarageBand.

What it says is - as a PC user, if you like this stuff, you will always be on the back foot getting this stuff. Sure, it will come to the PC eventually (as the iPod did), but it will still be a second rate port. The best example of this at the moment is the iPod photo, and how they had to mangle in the photo support into iTunes for the PC users. But it still won't be as good as iPhoto.

And the likely hood that Apple will drop their platform and become a PC software vendor? Close to zero - they are a hardware company.

So, if you like using technology for most multimedia stuff, which includes music players such as the iPod (or airport express for the home music center) your choice is this:

Get a mac, or become a late adopter as stuff filters through to the PC. Sure, you will get games and business software first on a PC. But if you like playing music more, the most popular music player is the iPod (based on sales), and that will drive you to buying an apple computer first.

I cannot think of a time in the past where you could say this about apple - where there was a specific category of software where apple was better. Perhaps desktop publishing, or spread sheets, but that was a long time ago when the PC was a second rate option for these areas.

Michael

Re:Still a small margin

[Anonymous Coward]

I own both an eMachines AMD64 notebook and 1.5Ghz G4 Powerbook.

The eMachines notebook is very powerful, but heavy at 7.5lbs. It averaged about 2.5-3hrs of battery life. I lugged it around for a semester at college, but now I use it as a DTR only. It includes 54mbps wireless, plenty of usb ports, an excellent screen, firewire, etc.

At first I was concerned about reliablity from an eMachines product, but I've been pretty happy with the purchase thus far. Although, I have yet to take full advantage of the AMD64. XP64 is still in beta and not all drivers are available. 64bit linux kernels have become stable, but there are equal driver issues. For now, I have a dual boot with XP Pro and Mandrake 10.1 both 32bit.

I bought a new 15" Powerbook using Apple's Student ADC program ($2k) about 4-5 months after buying the eMachines notebook. I also bought an IPod as an accessory with it, or was it the otherway around :).

The Powerbook is much thinner and lighter. Its looks about 10x sleeker than the eMachines (thought the eMachines notebook does have some neat blue leds). It gets about 3 - 3.5hrs of battery life.

The Powerbooks power saving and management features are far superior. It can be put to sleep within a second and equally wake up just as fast. When you close the screen, it goes instantly to sleep. In the short time it takes to flip open the cover, it will be back on and your application are just as you left them. Although this is possible on a PC, it takes signicantly more time and has a hand full of compatibilty issues that may prevent it from working at all. Apple did an excellent job engineering their hardware and operating system to get the optimum performance. Its also pretty efficient in sleep mode. I've had my powerbook sleeping for a couple days, and when I woke it up, it was still at 99% charge.

Some other neat feature Powerbook include the back lit keyboard, built in mic, firewire 400/800, and bluetooth. It also has a sensor to detect ambient light. During low light situations, the screen will dim and the keyboard will light up automatically.

I primarly bought the Powerbook to play with OSX, and I've been extremely impressed with it. Its very stable, and I've rebooted only when forced to for software updates (uptimes usually span weeks). The UI in general just seems more refined. The dock and finder are just capable if not more than XP taskbar or KDE/Gnome eqivalents. I particularly like Expose (an extremely easy way to switch between open tasks). It also has a unix backend. You can open up a terminal and many familiar tools from *nix are available. Its also easy to develop crossplatform code for other unix like systems, which is something I've used for some of my computer science classes

After buying my Powerbook, I've definetely become a believer in Apple products and OS X. Though, I still wouldn't be able to make a complete switch. There are still many things you can still only do on a PC. For example, certain games are only developed for the PC. Though, there seems to be more and more games being released for both. Theres also some application that only work on PC. However, this is less of an issue since Microsoft has released Virtual PC for Mac. But what I'd probably miss the most is plethora of options/peripherals available and the resulting prices in the PC market.

I think you can defintely find better deals in the PC market because of the competition there. The 50% off Dell notebooks is a perfect example. You pay a premium for the Powerbook and Apple hardware in general, but I think its worth it. But if you're just looking for a notebook or computer that gets the job done, you can probably find PC that does it for less.

Re:Still a small margin

[NeoBeans]

. If you want an "AirPort" you're not going to get one from Linksys or DLink or Belkin, you're getting it from Apple at the Apple Store.

I've been running a D-Link DI-624 for over a year with an AirPort equipped Powerbook G4. I don't think I lack a variety of options. :-)

Re:Still a small margin

[NeedleSurfer]

I switched to a PC to play more games in a better way, I sadly believed the people telling me there weren't any significant difference between Mac and PCs as far as plug and play, stability and speed was concerned nowadays.

A little hint to all those saying this like parrots: it's not true, at all. Pcs crash a lot more, fail more often, cost more for the same power (SAME, not number wise but real-life wise) are constantly being attacked (my anti-virus keep finding stuff about every day, adaware doesn't even remove all of the spyware I get...) and need protection software constantly monitoring the computer for malware, which in turn seriously slow it down and interfere with your normal operations (and YES I use firefox before some fuckin Linux asshole point his wisdom to me). The OS is still clunky as hell, you still have to press start to stop the OS and the interface is built around the concept that you want to work with the computer not on your creations.

In short I deeply regret my switch, I play games on my PC but have switched back to my old iBook dualUSB 500MHz for everything else, this little fellow let me do more stuf in a much more stable way than my 3.4GHz 1GB ram monster PC which cost me 4230$Canadian, monitor included.

Re:Still a small margin

[toddestan]

It's only because of the crazy amounts of money that Macs fetch on the used market. You can actually sell a 5 year old Macintosh to someone. A five year old PC is about at the point where you might be able to give it away if you find someone who is willing take it. It really has nothing to do with how long the hardware itself works, or what ancient hulk you can install the latest OS on.

Re:Still a small margin

[bmxbandit]

Though this has been explained time and time again, people still don't seem to get it. The truth is Apple are NOT a niche company. They are in fact one of the biggest, and certainly the most important PC company in the industry ever since they invented it. The misunderstanding is created (and heavily milked by toy companies such as Microsoft) because nobody stops to think about what a computer user actually is. The vast majority (in my experience) of Windows users are not computer users, or at least they are people who do not rely on a computer to do their work. If they did they would not be able to afford the constant patching, rebooting, viri or worse (MS patches and software). Most MS customers use computers for tasks that could be accomplished by an Amstrad Word processor 10 years ago (email/word proceccing). Of course I'm forgetting gaming. MS also appeal to people who spend over a grand on a games system thats almost as good as a $100 PS2, once you've spent an hour installing it. The hard truth is Electrical chains will continue to push joke technology such as Windows and office, as long as there are people dumb enough to buy it. That's because they can sell them a $300 computer for $1500, and know for a fact that they will need a new one in 6 months. My point is, these people are badly informed consumers, NOT computer users. Computer users are Publishing Companies, Design Agencies, Aircraft Designers, Recording Studios, ... the list is endless, but you'll probably find all of these industries dismissed by the so called computer press (ie MS press) as 'niche' industries. How convenient.
I challenge anybody to name a single MS innovation since they ported somebody elses code to the Altair. Not much of a record for a so called 'Industry Leader' hah.

Yup.

[niko9]

I gues it was a smart move for the iPOd to work with Windows and Macs?

Works great on my Linux box BTW. Whew. Good thing too, girlfriend would think I was giving her a line of poop trying to explai why she's got to get me a different gift.

Re:Yup.

[Anonymous Coward]

you have a girlfriend?? whats that like??

Well...

[CdBee]

Looks like that marketing plan paid off after all. I always suspected Microsoft was wrong when they thought that capturing the media player market was significant to overall market-share.

I'd say I've been proved wrong.

Re:Well...

[sleepingsquirrel]

I notice that the article doesn't mention any people converting from apple to microsoft. Is this number zero? Or just not reported? Does nobody ever switch away from apple? If 6% of OSX users switch to XP because itunes is available on win32, the situation is pretty much a wash.

Re:Well...

[kelzer]

I notice that the article doesn't mention any people converting from apple to microsoft. Is this number zero?

Well, there's at least one!

Re:Well...

[merdark]

If 6% of OSX users switch to XP because itunes is available on win32, the situation is pretty much a wash.

First, I don't know the actual stats on people switching the other way. But even if 6% did switch the other way, it's still not a wash.

Why? Because the number of OS X users is different than the number of ipod users. Assuming (again, don't know the numbers, but it seems reasonable), that there are far far more ipod users than OS X users, 6% of a large number is much much more than 6% of a small number.

Re:Well...

[Rasta Prefect]

I should mention that photoshop was rather cool, and once it came out on PC, I had no reason to ever look back at Macs.

My take now is that it's all just a pretty face on a mountain of code. The more stable the code is the better. I'm not very happy with certain aspects of XP, but I'm stuck due to the availability of certain apps which are ONLY available on PC.

I had the same experience with Macs prior to OS X. Now I've got one for work, and support about 50/50 Macs and PC's and love the Macs. I find that from the POV of getting over my prior loathing of the platform, it helps to think of it as just being NextStep 5. It's easy to do when you program in Cocoa and everything derives from NSObject.

Bought my iPod Mini on Monday

[RandoX]

I had always thought that Mac users were a rabid, elitist group until I started using the iPod. It was an upgrade from my older iRiver player. I'm far too entrenched in my PC to switch, but I'll admit that I'm Mac-curious now.

Re:Bought my iPod Mini on Monday

[TPIRman]

I'll admit that I'm Mac-curious now

Y'know, some people swing both ways. Don't be afraid to get in touch with your OSX-uality.

Re:Bought my iPod Mini on Monday

[gilesjuk]

Thing is, if you bought an iPod it shows you're more inclined to buy well designed (visually) simple products.

The fact that you bought an iPod and not some of the more feature rich players shows that you wanted something that did the job with little fuss. Macs do this too.

Re:Bought my iPod Mini on Monday

[kidgenius]

OGG playback, FM-Radio, and remote. Those all exist in my iRiver iHP-120.

Re:Bought my iPod Mini on Monday

[dirtyboot]

The correct term is "iCurious."

Re:Bought my iPod Mini on Monday

[sokoban]

Just be careful, and make sure you get the right mac for you. It is unwise to be hasty and just go out and buy the cheapest new computer available that runs OS X. I have known a few people who bought a new macintosh computer, only to find it didn't suit their needs. So, consult with your mac zealot and you too can overcome premature eMac-ulation.

Re:Bought my iPod Mini on Monday

[Fulcrum of Evil]

OGG playback, FM-Radio, and remote. Those all exist in my iRiver iHP-120.

OGG is not important to me, I hate radio (use my iPod in the car, so it's irrelevant anyway), and I do have a remote - it's just not wireless.

Re:Bought my iPod Mini on Monday

[ColMustard]

Actually, there is a remote. It doesn't come with the iPod, but it's there. That's one good thing about the iPod, accessories galore! Yeah, most of them are over-priced, but oh well.

Also, you just need to face the fact that Ogg support just doesn't matter to 99.999% of the general population. Just be glad like we all should be that the iPod isn't the only choice we have. If/when ogg gains acceptance by a lot more people, then I think it's a given that the iPod will support it. FM-radio on the other hand would be a great feature. I do wish it had radio.

Re:Bought my iPod Mini on Monday

[generic-man]

Have you seen the iRiver's remote? It has a separate backlit LCD that shows you the track that's playing, time, etc. You can even navigate the menus through the remote. It's very useful if you're in a confined space.

The iPod's remote, by contrast, costs $40 and has six buttons and no display. I wouldn't consider it in the same league.

Re:Bought my iPod Mini on Monday

[nospmiS remoH]

There is also this remote. Unfortunately the cheapest model of this remote starts at about $30,000.

Re:Bought my iPod Mini on Monday

[Elementalor]

The iRiver H320 and H340 display photos on its 2" 262K LCD screen (BMP and JPEG).

Also upgrading to the latest 1.20 firmware, they play XviD videos restricted to these settings:

File format : AVI
Video Codec : XviD MPEG4 (recommended XviD 1.0.2 codec)
Resolution : 220 x 176 only
Frame Rate : 10fps at Maximum
Bit Rate : 500Kbps at Maximum (recommended under 450Kbps)
Audio Codec : MP3
BitRate : 128Kbps, 44.1KHz

It's not much until you begin converting videos and series episodes and you take it wherever you want :)

Re:Bought my iPod Mini on Monday

[Anonymous Coward]

If Apple were to add OGG support, they'd have to release the source, which I think they would be lothe to do for firmware.

Not true. See http://www.vorbis.com/faq.psp#com for more on the vorbis license.

Re:Bought my iPod Mini on Monday

[Cloud K]

I had always thought that Mac users were a rabid, elitist group

I'm glad you've seen the truth :) I thought similar until about 6 months ago when I bought an iPod. The sheer quality and superb design work... when I look at it, I picture a team of dedicated designers who love what they do and are proud at the masterpiece they've created (so much so that they set their prices a little higer than others). I'm sure that's Apple's intention.

About a week or two later, I went out and bought a Powerbook, first Apple computer I've ever owned, and from my experience so far it defeinitely won't be the last :)

Back to the original point though, since getting the Apple products I've asked (after research of course) numerous questions to the Apple community on the official community boards at apple.com (Dr Smoke rocks) and mac-forums.com - both have resulted in very kind, helpful answers, usually perfectly presented/formatted, in clear English and backed up with facts+links. I've been truly stunned at just how nice, and helpful, people in the "Apple Community" tend to be.

You know, at the risk of sounding mildly troll-ish, some areas of the Linux community would really benefit from that kind of attitude. It could push Linux forward a long way.

There is a little elitism and OS-mockage in some of the posters, just like with any other OS, but no more than others.

Re:Bought my iPod Mini on Monday

[AugstWest]

Not necessarily, but be careful -- you could soon find yourself driving either a Jetta or a new Beetle, and thinking about buying either a mountain bike or a kayak.

It is only a matter of time before you find yourself stopping at a florist on the way to work to make sure there's a fresh flower in your dashboard vase.

Macs will infect you pretty quickly. The only real antidote is going broke.

Re:Bought my iPod Mini on Monday

[PeterChenoweth]

I have an iRiver iHP-120 as the others do. My wife has a 3G iPod. I've played with them both (the iPod and the iRiver that is, playing with my wife is none of your business).

1. The iHP has both optical and analog inputs and outputs. Headphones, Input and Output ports built in. I/O ports can be switched from either analog or optical. Very handy for playing mp3's over a home stereo with one simple and better-sounding TOSLINK connection than a miniplug-to-RCA adapter. No, I've never used the optical input for anything, but it's there.

2. The iHP can record. On it's own. Simple enough to hook up my iHP to my XM radio, record a couple hours of streaming audio for playback at the gym. You can't do that with an iPod.

3. Drag-and-drop on most any computer (XP, 2K, Apple, Linux) with no driver installation necessary. MP3's are just a drag-and-drop away from being placed on my iHP, and so are any other type of file I want. I know that iPod's work the same way for non-music files if you install the right software, but my iHP is invaluable for transporting large files and documents without having to install extra software on either PC. My iHP has been invaluable for transporting huge driver updates to a relative's PC who does not have a broadband connection.

4. Battery life. It's hotly debated, but in my experience our iPod may have a problem. My iHP is about 13 months old, and I get the same battery life that I did when it was brand new. My wife's iPod is about 8 months old, and we think that its battery(ies) are starting to fade, as she must recharge the thing every few days, instead of a week+ when it was new. Same listening conditions, volume levels, etc. Leave it turned off and unused for two weeks and the batteries are almost drained. My iRiver can, and has, sat for almost a month unused and the batteries were still fully charged when I powered it back on.

My $.02 anyway...

Re:Bought my iPod Mini on Monday

[Psx29]

Don't forget to mention that the iRiver has more language support than iPod, and also it has video playback with the new firmware...and also! it has *drum roll* (the single most important thing for me) directory browsing!!! Oh and no dirty hacks to download music off the iRiver onto your computer (Yes I just bought one and like to feel like I made the right choice...although I do like the look of the iPod...they look so sexy...ok that's enough...mst loook away..ahhh!)

Re:Bought my iPod Mini on Monday

[FunWithHeadlines]

"I've been truly stunned at just how nice, and helpful, people in the "Apple Community" tend to be."

Me too. Oh sure, in any large group there are the trolls and rude people. But by and large you get very helpful responses from the Apple community. I think part of it is the perceived niche status. People who feel they need to stick together to help each other out often do try to be more helpful.

Another part of it is there are fewer resources available for the Apple crowd compared to the Windows crowd, so there seems to be a feeling of 'Well, this site is fairly rare, better make it a good one.' So you get fewer resources, but often the quality of them equals the best of the Windows resources. End result: You have what you need.

And there has to be a sociological aspect to it as well. Apple users must be a self-selected subset of society, a group that is similar to, say, BMW or Mercedes buyers. People who like well-crafted machinery, good performance, ease of use. The kind of person who is drawn to these qualities may also tend to be helpful to their fellow Apple- (or BMW-) owner.

Re:Bought my iPod Mini on Monday

[waynelorentz]

Aren't Mac people more likely than the general population to be artsy-types, socially-liberal, and homosexual?
Does this mean that an IPod can turn you gay? :)

Just like Windows users are more likely to live in their parents' basements and work at the 7-Eleven on the corner.
Does this mean that Windows will make you a failure? ;)

Only a study of 200 users!

[datbox]

They ran this same story on OS News.


http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=8945 [OSNews.com]

Re:Only a study of 200 users!

[XxtraLarGe]

200 is a decent sample size for a survey. Most political polls range from 600-1000, and that's for the entire country. What would be more important to find out is if these people were solicited for their responses, or if they volunteered them.

Re:Only a study of 200 users!

[__aaitqo8496]

Slashdot: a mishmash of stories you read elsewhere ;)

Re:Only a study of 200 users!

[general_re]

200 is a decent sample size for a survey.

Depends on what you define as "decent". At a 99% confidence level, a sample size of 200 means that the margin of error for this survey is +/- 9%. Even if you open it up to a 95% confidence level, the MOE is still +/- 7%. If you wanted to drop the margin of error down to +/- 3% at a 95% confidence level, you'd need a sample size of just over a thousand respondents.

Re:Only a study of 200 users!

[corbettw]

Slashdot: a mishmash of stories you read elsewhere ;)

Yeah, right, like you read Slashdot for the articles.

Of course

[Donut2099]

I bought a Sony Vaio because it has a special connection that allows me to plug my walkman into it and play cassettes through the speakers!

Re:Of course

[Frogbeater]

As was mentioned above, it is not the technical compliance with the machine that would cause the switch (ipod already works with PCs,) it is the "ease of use," fit and finish, attention to detail that makes PC users "mac curious."

My ipod is the only gadget I own that I can let someone play with and have them understand it immediatly and enjoy the the design of not only the hardware but also the software. My amazing phone doesn't have that effect on anyone or my amazing Clie. This creates a link between the Apple brand and a concept of easy to understand, elegant technology.

I blame Apple for the change in my attitude away from "bigger is more impressive" to "hide the technology and make it look like magic" mentality. The computers I used to build were big and obviously demanding of attention, my favorite machine now is the one that people don't even notice in the living room.

Not for techs

[flibuste]

The article clearly states that those people are not techs but "people with money". The switch to Apple seems an obvious choice if you can afford an expensive computer and you are neither a big techie or a hard-core gamer. I fail to see exactly where is the impact of the IPod here. Is that because it's the same "people with money" who can afford to buy one?

Clearly the article lacks meaningful statistics

Re:Not for techs

[TheKidWho]

If by people with money, you mean people who don't work at mcdonalds for a living, then I agree with you. Seriously Macs aren't that expensive plus they last a very long time. This ibook im typing on is over 2 years old, yet it still works like a charm! I even prefer using my 2 year old 700mhz ibook over my 2.53ghz PC! I would say that it has been a rather good investment, the only thing my ibook doesn't do well is play new games.

Re:Not for techs

[Shisha]

Indeed and "without data, all you are is just another person with an opinion."

Go on Slashdot crowd, none of you have the data, but I'm sure you all have an opinion.

Re:Not for techs

[the_2nd_coming]

yeah because 799 is SOOOO expensive.

Re:Not for techs

[jav1231]

Are you on crack? No, I know it's OT, but are you?
Just price their LCD monitors alone and your theory is easily quelled.

Re:Not for techs

[revscat]

The switch to Apple seems an obvious choice if you can afford an expensive computer and you are neither a big techie or a hard-core gamer.

Gamer I'll give you, but hard core techie? No, don't think so. If you are are a techie the Mac opens up world's of *nix possibilities to you, and if and when you get tired of dinking with X Windows, etc, you have a great GUI for use.

But I personally use my Mac as a fileserver from which I serve video to our other systems (one iBook and an older PC), have a webdav server which we use to consolidate and share calendars, and the UW imapd server setup just for the hell of it.

And now that I think about it, even if you do mean "hardware techie", you can still get your jollies that way, too. When I switched to the Mac I hooked up and successfully mounted the NTFS drive from my old system and was able to get all my old crap off of that. (Can't write to NTFS, but you can read from it.)

No, the Mac satisfies my tinkering desires quite nicely, thanks.

Re:Not for techs

[Refrag]

I think the point you tried to make is obvious. Technically minded people are switching to Macintosh because of OS X. However, it is significant that non-technical people have been prompted to switch because of the Ipod.

Re:Not for techs

[jedidiah]

Except this isn't at all true.

Even if it were, PCs have the advantage of being able to tune the hardware features to individual requirements. Expensive components that may only collect dust can be dispensed with.

Plus you can shuffle around things so that you get even BETTER components for those things that really matter too you while still being cheaper than Apple.

Re:Not for techs

[Refrag]

The kernel is Mach which Apple has been using since Next.

Safari uses the KHTML engine which has benefited largely from Apple's improvements.

Printing uses CUPS, but it is much easier to setup on a Mac.

The shell is bash, but most Mac users never touch it.

The only part of Linux that gets "bashed" by Apple is the kludginess of the GUI, utilities, and applications. Apple has never said Linux or BSD is based on poor foundational technologies. They just don't have the user experience down.

Re:Not for techs

[MachineShedFred]

What does it leave?

Well, a windowing environment that is useable, and applications that most users would consider actually using.

(hint: most non-slashdot reading users don't know of the existance of OpenOffice.)

Re:Not for techs

[bzImage8]

Im a tech ?

Don't know.

I have been using computers for +15 years, woking as: programmer, tech support, tech support manager, software architect, security consultant, freelance and many other hats.

I have Cisco, Microsoft, Novell and RedHat Certifications (and not the basic ones, im MSCE, CNE, RHCE, etc.).

I have been using Unix and Linux for more than 10 years.

I have been using/administering/fixing all kinds of computers: Pc's, Bull systems, Tandem, Data General, Digital, IBM, Hitachi, etc, etc, etc

And after all that.. YES I DO USE A MAC and love the command line (yes i also have a gentoo linux server at home)

Who are you to tell me that this machine is not good for me ?

Re:Not for techs

[Refrag]

There was no real reason to use KHTML over Gecko for Safari. Firefox is very nearly as fast as Safari (on my iBook 800) now, and is compabitable with far more websites than Safari, due to Gecko having a lot more real world use than KHTML ever will. 7 vs 1-2%.

Seeing how Dave Hyatt has participated significantly in the development of Firefox and was also one of the key people at Apple in making the decision to go with KHTML, I'd say the decision was more well informed than you think. Apple has said before the main reason KHTML was picked over Gecko is that the code-base is more manageable and it will be better for the long term.

Re:Not for techs

[Refrag]

They bought Next which gave them Obj-C, Cocoa, Interface Builder (and basically XCode), Kernel, Postscript based display...

They didn't buy the Next technology. They bought the Next company. The people in charge of Mac OS X development at Apple came from Next. So, it's not like they're standing on the shoulders of giants. They are the giants in this case. And, just in case you didn't know, both Apple and Next were founded by Steve Jobs.

All I am saying is that Apple is regarded as the world's big computer innovator - they don't really innovate whatsoever. They are good at packaging stuff up neatly and doing silver sprays on laptops, but that's about it.

You need to do more research if you think Mac OS X is Linux with a different skin. And the laptops are anodized aluminum, they aren't sprayed.

I mean even the iPod, something I will be sure that Apple will go down for as the great digital music innovator is all bought-in components. They got the HDDs from Toshiba, the software + interface design that is so amazing from some small company that I can't remember the name of, and bought iTunes from another company I can't remember the name off.

I suppose Linux users craft their own hard drives from iron ore?

The OS for the iPod comes from PortalPlayer, but the interface and application design on top of that (including the fonts) are the work of Apple. Apple hired the guys that developed SoundJam and had them create iTunes. I honestly don't know how much SoundJam code was in iTunes 1.0, but I would imagine it was pretty much solely the low-level libraries because the applications looked very different.

What technologies has Apple actually 'innovated' in, apart from packaging up other people's work? Not many, that's the answer.

First non-legacy PC, FireWire, Rendezvous (ZeroConf), windowed GUIs, iPod, iTunes Music Store, ADC, ADB...

Odd correlation

[Dan East]

Maybe I'm not looking at this deep enough, but what does a piece of hardware for playing MP3s have to do with personal computers? How different is this from, say, people switching from Mac to a Sony Notebook because they like their Sony DVD player?

Dan East

Re:Odd correlation

[TheKidWho]

Because if you remember, there used to be a pretty big stigma against macs. People would go "Macs suck!!" without even researching anything about them. Hell, I even did it to and now I love my ibook. What the iPod has done though is increase awareness among the consumer that Apple products aren't that bad and that they are actually very good. Because of that more people have become curious of macs. -jadam

Re:Odd correlation

[iJed]

Maybe I'm not looking at this deep enough, but what does a piece of hardware for playing MP3s have to do with personal computers?

I'd say it comes down to integration. Yes an iPod works with Windows, and using iTunes no less. On the Mac, however, the experience is very different: iTunes is only a single part of the puzzle. Every one of the iApps, from GarageBand to iMovie, integrate together to make doing any of their tasks hugely easier. It is this that makes using the iPod on the Mac a far nicer experience than it is on Windows.

Re:Odd correlation

[gstoddart]

Maybe I'm not looking at this deep enough, but what does a piece of hardware for playing MP3s have to do with personal computers?

Because people are deciding that a company which has given them such an easy to use piece of hardware that just works merit some consideration in the next computer. Not having seen the iTunes software, that may have been a factor.

Remember, people synch their iPods from their computers.

How different is this from, say, people switching from Mac to a Sony Notebook because they like their Sony DVD player?

Only if their Sony DVD player is so much more than an incremental improvement that they want to gain all of the rest of the benefits. In this case, people apparently feel that the iPod and its software so much better than what they've come to expect that, that they really want to get that benefit across the board.

And, if anywhere near 6% of the people who have bought iPods make this decision, that begins to represent one hell of a lot of new Mac users.

In related news...

[k4_pacific]

In a related story, it was found that 7% of all people who have recently purchased a vintage reel-to-reel player would be willing to purchase a used PDP-11 if the price was right.

It makes sense...

[Anita Coney]

Apple survives on getting people to pay very high prices for cool looking products. Once Apple gets people buying iPods, it would only make sense that those same sheeps would also start buying overpriced but pretty Macs.

Sure it's flamebait, sure it's troll, but it's also true... and you know it.

Re:It makes sense...

[palad1]

iBook, expensive?

Build a dell with the same amount of functionnalities (not the first entry-level $300 machine), add the software that's bundled with the iBook (I'll exempt you of finding a GarageBand alternative) and then compare the prices.

Re:It makes sense...

[antifoidulus]

Ya, maybe if you would stop maligning them for a second and actually think about what people other than yourself look for in a computer, maybe you would see why. You may not like Macs, thats fine, but guess what, you are not the ultimate authority when it comes to what people should like. Different people have different tastes. Oh, and as for overpriced, maybe you should look at an iBook sometime. They are very competitive with the rough equivalent of the pc notebook, so much so that a lot of people buy iBooks and put Linux on there(I can tell you are a Linux fan by your sig)
You are partially correct, it's flamebait, but it's not true.
Grow up.

Re:It makes sense...

[YetAnotherName]

For me, it was the other way around.

I'd been stuck on Windows for the longest time because I had to interoperate with clients who insisted on exchanging Micro$oft Word documents, Excel spreadsheets, and so forth. On top of that, I was doing Java development for those clients. (Star Office didn't cut it, at the time.) Yes, it was a living hell, especially for someone who was nursed on SVR3.

Finally I played with a PowerBook: it had genuine Micro$oft Office from the Redmond behemoth itself. It had a killer Java virtual machine. But best of all, I could pop up a bash shell and run vi on my files. And all with glistening eye-candy.

I was in heaven.

So, I've got two of the systems. Yes, they're overpriced, but they're also damn stable and they stay out of my way, like Windows, but I can get in the way, unlike Windows.

(Oh, and it was after that that I got the iPod. But I'll never go back to Windows. And zealots out there, relax, I've got two Linux systems (and even a FreeBSD system) in my server closet.)

Re:It makes sense...

[Anonymous Coward]

Build a dell with the same amount of functionnalities (not the first entry-level $300 machine), add the software that's bundled with the iBook (I'll exempt you of finding a GarageBand alternative) and then compare the prices.

So you're saying the cost of the software is bundled in? Please stop forcing me to buy software I don't want. That reminds me of a story my friends tells about a college roommate he had. The guy ran across a bargain on produce at a local stand, and brought back to the apartment 3 bags filled with it. He got a great price, but none of the guys in the apartment really ate any vegetables. It all rotted. Good deal, though.

I'd like a iBook deal that costs less and doesn't include iDVD or iMovie. If the cost is bundled in, and I'm not going to use it, it's not a good deal for me.

Quick comparison:

Lowest price preconfigured iBook I can find at the Apple Store:

1.2GHz PowerPC G4

512K L2 cache @1.2GHz

12-inch TFT Displays

1024x768 resolution

256MB DDR266 SDRAM

30GB Ultra ATA drive

Combo Drive

ATI Mobility Radeon 9200

32MB DDR video memory

AirPort Extreme built-in

Cost: $999

Dell Inspiron for same price, from Dell's site:

Intel® Celeron® M Processor 340(1.50GHz/400MHz FSB)

15.4-inch TFT display

1280x800 resolution

512MB DDR SDRAM (333MHz)

60GB Ultra ATA drive

24X CD-RW/DVD Combo Drive

NVIDIA® GeForceTM FX Go5200 (ATI Mobility Turbo is an option)

32 MB DDR video memory

Intel® ProWireless 2200 (802.11b/g) mini PCI wireless card

Cost: $999

So, for the same price, the Dell gives you a bigger display, with higher resolution, twice the memory, twice the HD space... but the iBook isn't expensive because I get iMovie and Garage Band?!?

Re:It makes sense...

[prockcore]

I love how everyone defending Apple's prices compares it to Dell.

We think Dell is overpriced as well! Oh look, if you compare Apple with the most overpriced PC vendor, it doesn't look so bad.

Try comparing to eMachines AMD64 Laptops, which are amazing.

Re:It makes sense...

[Gear_Media]

And the regular price for that model is $1599.

You can't use a model that's on sale for a comparison like that!

Re:It makes sense...

[pyrros]

Dell can't even be bothered to mention the full weight:
Weight: starting at 6.9 lbs. (2.96 kg) with travel module, 9-cell battery and hard drive1


(Travel module means no optical drive BTW)

OTOH, the 12" ibook is 4.9 and the 14", for comparison 5.9, WITH the optical drives.

Re:It makes sense...

[Senjaz]

Windows does allow you to adjust its on screen graphics for higher resolution screens. You can change the DPI setting for the font engine: Control Panel ->Display -> Settings Tab -> Advanced

You can also set the size of Windows widgets in the same Display control panel -> Appearance Tab -> Advanced.

Mac OS X has similar window and UI scaling functions built in but not available for the user to change, for now it's 72 dpi, same as it always has been.

Problems arise from two things: sloppy programming on the Windows side assuming that 1 twip = 15 pixels (a 96 dpi resolution) meaning that control layouts get buggered up when set to any other resolution.

Second clueless web page authors. Most will mix unit types on pages and use resolution independant units such as pixels for images and resolution dependant units for fonts such as points. This means when the resolution setting is anything other than 96 dpi the layout gets screwed. Thanks to this almost all Mac browsers assume 96 dpi for web pages so they don't look like ass when the system default is 72 dpi.

I think the main thing holding us back from a resolution independant interface for a desktop OS is the pull of having to provide support for legacy apps.

Causality

[Concerned Onlooker]

it's not clear from the results mentioned whether there's a strong causal relationship here.

Wallstreet seems to think there is.

Of course..

[jamesdood]

The IPod interfaces well with the Mac, I have used both versions, and iTunes on the Mac is much faster and more consistant with MacOSX. I still have an x86 machine for running windows, but my most of my work is done on my Powerbook. Once you have tried the Mac it is hard to go back to the Windows box.. So from personal experience, I believe this could be true.

as soul coughing said

[dslknowitall]

correlation is not causation...

It's iTunes, not the iPod.

[saddino]

This article seems to miss the obvious: all iPod users are iTunes users, and although the iPod interface is a joy, it's the iTunes interface that introduces the "look and feel" of OS X to PC iPod users. The fact that Apple broke with UI guidelines on the PC, led many to argue that iTunes for Windows was bloated and slow. But now it seems clear that for Apple it was paramount to keep the iTunes experience as close to OS X as possible.

If these numbers are correct (and pan out) then Apple's "gamble" turned out to be correct.

Re:It's iTunes, not the iPod.

[ickoonite]

I am not normally this brusque, but I think the occasion so merits. Are you misinformed or simply incredibly stupid?

I simply cannot understand how all iTunes (a free download) users could be iPod users (an expensive peripheral). Given that iTunes is bundled with the iPod rather than vice versa, and that unless you are particularly political in your choice of OS, the iPod as-good-as requires iTunes as its computer-to-peripheral interface, how can iPod > iTunes?

Further, you seem to suggest that iTunes requires you to buy all the music stored therein. I am worried that their are people reading this site who are this uninformed. My iTunes Library is full of >20Gb worth of MP3s, mostly ripped from CDs - I have one iTunes Music Store-bought AAC file. Therefore those who "choose not to pay fees to download music" (i.e. those who download MP3s) will find iTunes an excellent interface for their "borrowed" collection.

Sorry for the tone, but sometimes...

iqu :@

I KNEW IT!

[fullmetal55]

I knew they were planting subliminal messages in my mp3s... because as soon as I got my ipod I started craving other mac products, like an ibook, or an imac. *puts on tinfoil hat* It's a conspiracy and this "study" proves it's working!!

In other news...

[GillBates0]

6% of fresh fruit consumers have made the switch from PCs to Macs. An additional 7 percent of the apple eaters said they are planning to dump their old PC for an Apple machine; it's not clear, however from the results mentioned whether there's a strong causal relationship here.

Man bites dog

[Eevee]

I kinda think that's the point of the story. People finding the iPod a sufficiently good reason to switch their OS is not a run of the mill event. How many people switch just because there's a neat new scanner out on the market? Or for a new printer? (Not counting high-end RIPs, of course, since they're pretty much stand-alone.)

Re:Man bites dog

[Mattintosh]

Which is why I would like to point out that this should be from the "It's-working!" dept.

This was the plan all along. Build the bestest gadget, get mindshare, get marketshare. And /. (as a whole) fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Welcome to the cult of the Mac.

OS X is selling Macs

[RayDude]

It isn't the iPod's doing. Its OS X. Its GUI Rocks. I'd run it too if I could get it for x86 processors. The amazing thing is, now that Processors are fast enough for the average user, the raw power of the CPU is less important and the GUI matters more. That's why people are _contemplating_ Linux or switching to Mac.

Count me in there...sort of

[yetanothermike]

Since I purchased my iPod I have recognized the elegance, style and simplicity of Apple products. Even the packaging is sexy!

I would not purchase one of the devices for myself, but I would recommend them to others who don't need to upgrade a lot or tinker. For those who aren't power users, they are a nice package.

Before the iPod I wouldn't have even considered recommending Apple machines to anyone though. So I'm sort of on board.

Dangers of the iPod (or "iPod Madness!")

[BlueThunderArmy]

Does this make the iPod a gateway Mac?

Mac-curious you say?

[Tibor the Hun]

No problem, meet us on the corner of 27th and St. James on Wednesday at 10:00 pm.
Bring your iPod and leather boots...

Number's not surprising

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

I saw this article a while ago, and then ran a few numbers in my head. Given the number of ipods Apple sells is a little under the number of computers sold, in an average quarter, this is not really surprising at all. I don't think the correlation is really meaningful. Slightly less than 6% of Apple's new computer customers have also bought ipods. Given the overlap between people into high tech gadgets and people with enough money to afford an ipod or a mac, I'm surprised these numbers aren't higher.

So sick of iPOD

[netsavior]

ok lets settle this... the iPod is not the only way to listen to music, and the mac is not the only way to use an iPod. I wish most users could understand this. Of course I guess if you are going to drop the $10,000 to legitimatly fill your iPod you might as well also throw in a $4,000 computer to go with it.

Re:So sick of iPOD

[saddino]

Of course I guess if you are going to drop the $10,000 to legitimatly fill your iPod

ok lets settle this...purchasing music from iTMS or "stealing" music from P2P is not the only way to fill an iPod. Of course, my CD collection might be a tad larger than yours.

Re:So sick of iPOD

[RatBastard]

Of course I guess if you are going to drop the $10,000 to legitimatly fill your iPod

And then there are those of us who have 500+ CDs sitting in our media center shelves. After a decade or two you can build up a large music collection. Not every iPod user is 17 years old.

Apple Brand Going Strong

[visionsofmcskill]

As apple has said time and time again, they had hopes of the Ipod's influence leading towards more PC to Mac converts.

While initialy this hardly proved true, it's a very strong sales pitch to have a constant companion with an apple logo on it.

The near ubiquity, and total inunduation of ipods being everywhere also goes a long way towards making apple look like a damn good brand (if they do the ipods so well, the must be good at computers)

I think if apple keeps hammering away at highly tailored and very well-made digital appliances, there computer market share will continue to grow as people put trust in their products.

Though id rather see the specifics of this data to see whether it has any real merit.

Probably a much more intresting question is how apple is going to be able to increase their market share outside the US/japan. While your typical developed high GDP citizen can afford apple's products, getting apple products into the hands of less wealthy countries is a big stumbling block that needs to be addressed if they want to get their hands on the largest emerging computing markets.

we shall see

One Right Here

[WombatControl]

I'd used Macs for web development in a previous job, and had always liked OS X. I was ecstatic when iTunes was released for the PC, as it was the singularly best program for managing large music collections I'd ever seen.

When I got my new job, one of the first things I did is shell out for an iPod to replace my crappy car CD changer. The Apple design philosophy appealed to me, and the incredible ease-of-use of both iTunes and the iPod were a big factor.

Last month I bought an iBook - the fact that they dropped the price, bumped up the CPU speed, and added AirPort Express for free was enough to get me off the fence. I wanted a laptop that was lighter than my old Compaq which weighs more than Kirstie Allie after camping out at a Royal Fork for a week. The iBook was light, priced competitively, and had all the features I want.

I had been trying to get my WinXP Home laptop to connect to the shared files on my XP Pro desktop for days, and finally just gave up. The iBook not only saw the network, but just asked for the password to connect. That was it. No hastle, no fiddling with network setup, no hunting through poorly documented and frequently useless configuration pages. AirPort has no trouble connecting to any wireless network I can throw at it.

My next machine may well be a Mac. It runs the software I need to be productive, the UNIX underpinnings mean that I have not only all the UNIX tools I'm used to from vim to Apache, but I also have a beautiful and usable GUI to go with it.

I hated Macs before. The "classic" Mac OS never appealed to me in the slightest. But Mac OS X is a dream to use, from running Photoshop to using it as a test server with the built-in copy of Apache.

OS X just "gets it". It is by far the best OS I've used, and iTunes gives Windows users a preview of how well Mac software works. The iPod and iTunes are the perfect "gateway drug" into full-fledged Mac addiction. Macs have always been a niche product, and Apple has always been a niche retailer. But if the iPod helps drive even a small number of PC users towards the Apple platform, it's a net gain to Apple on top of the incredibly strong sales of the iPod line.

Re:One Right Here

[rackhamh]

Steve, is that you?

Re:One Right Here

[x.Draino.x]

I'm a switcher too.. couple months ago I was about to build a new box.. last minute I walked into an Apple store and bought a 12" Powerbook. Liked it so much I sold my Dell laptop and bought my wife a 12" iBook. A month later an iPod.. I'm addicted. Everything just works. I still have my Unix, and an awesome GUI.. what more can you ask for? People don't realize that it's not just the eye candy. OS X has the best features. period. I can drag and drop text from anywhere onto anywhere, same with pictures. Spell checking is used throughout almost every application. And a lot of applications integrate with others, like iCal, etc.

How about this correlation

[matth1jd]

Now of course I know correlation != causation but I had this thought.

I'd imagine a small percentage (say 10%) of iPod users probably bought the most expensive model at the time be it the large 40GB iPod or the new iPod Photo. Whereas most of us don't have the money to drop on the latest and greatest iPod this group could purchase 1 or more if they so desired.

As another post pointed out it's probably people in this group (fat wallets) who are making the switch. "I can afford the $500 dollar iPod might as well as get the computer that goes along with it". So there's your 6%.

Personally I'm too entrenched in my Windows box, and I can't afford an iPod let alone a whole computer from Apple. Anyone want to get me an early Christmas Gift? Heck a belated gift if it's an iPod :)

--J

maybe

[grocer]

Find me a PC laptop that comes out of the box with firewire, USB 2.0, 4+ hours battery life, small form factor, runs office natively, offers X windows support, intergrates all the GNU tools into the OS, and does it all for less than 1200 bucks out the door...Apple builds the best notebooks, IMO, because they offer the best form factor/battery life/software package out there.

Piper Jaffray already knew it

[the pickle]

That's why they raised their price target on AAPL to $100 (and also why AAPL gained six bucks a share two days ago).

MacWorld UK has a related story today.

No matter how you look at it, if the "halo effect" is real, it's a Good Thing(tm) for Apple, and probably for the industry in general, because it proves that there are legitimate alternatives to Windows for the non-techie crowd.

p

I don't understand some people's stubbornness

[dcarey]

I don't know if this article is believable, but one thing that I've experienced that adds to its credibility at least to me is that I've noticed how many people out there will not download or try itunes. It's a free program. It runs on PCs. It has killer cataloging capabilities, localized network streaming capabilities (I run an iTunes streamer for all my mp3s at home to my stereo). The music store has TONS of 'indie' level bands, so phat chance of not finding something. And the burning and sound effects as well. Sheesh.

Yet I know people who are so simple minded they will not even try the thing. One guy I know, who won't d/l it told me to run out and buy this album by killswitch engage. I told him I'd catch it on iTunes. He of course dismissed this idea, saying they'd never have that kind of album. Well we did an indie band run down of his entire collection, chose 10 bands, and 8 out of ten was on iTunes.

I guess my point is, that, from a computer scientist's viewpoint like my own, I don't care what you run, as I XP, Linux, and Macs, and love them all equally, but if you're going to badmouth a product, at least have the nuts to TRY the thing ... especially if it's frigging free. How about just try it, Scott?

But back to my original point ... it's that move that makes the person switch, not the actual performance of availability of software or other crazy usual analyses. They don't care if it's better or worse. People stick to computing platforms as if they are political ones oddly (ok THAT doesn't make sense either, bad example), regardless of whtether or not the platform actually suits them 100%. I know musicians using PCs who won't use macs. I know business majors who use Macs who won't use PCs.

Am I odd for trying to see the good in every platform? Sheesh, you should see my political beliefs ...

Re:I don't understand some people's stubbornness

[WinterSolstice]

I fully understand what you mean. I use (and enjoy) just about every platform I can get my hands on!

At home:
2 Sun SPARC boxes (NetBSD and Solaris 5.9)
3 Apple G4 Macs (OSX 10.3.5)
1 Apple Mac Plus (800k drives... real PCs don't have harddrives ;) )
8 x86 PCs running FreeBSD 5 in a render farm

At work:
Solaris 5.8, 5.9, 5.10
VMS 7.3
AIX 5.1
Windows 2000

I have found delightful things about all of these platforms, areas of total supremacy. I have found horrible flaws in all of these platforms, that just make me pissed off.

I am not surprised that people are looking at Apple after liking the iPod. I typically "inherited" a new platform, as people were laid-off, but I have grown to love all of them. Once you break the seal and try a new platform, you typically will find something nice about it.

For me, the biggest things are editors... I write a lot every day (email, code, scripts, SQL, etc), and so editors make a big difference to me. The finest editor I have ever used is probably LSE or EVE on VMS, followed closely by TPU. Then, Vim and Emacs following along. However, NetBeans is also very nice (though language specific). Dead last would be XCode... possibly the worst code editor I have ever used.

But anyhow, the point of this was that it is important to be platform agnostic, and go where the tools or money are. Spending your life on one OS is like living in one town forever. BORING.

-WS

Re:I don't understand some people's stubbornness

[Johnathon_Dough]

I have ripping & burning software (EAC & Nero) which both do a better job than iTunes. I already have organisation software (JRMC)

If you wanted one basic app do do all of the above list you would want iTunes. You != Everyone, in particular Everyone != tech savvy.

The import process is a pain in the behind

You put in a CD and push the button on the top right hand side that says import. Or, if you are particularly lazy, you set the preference that says "import songs on CD insertion". How is this a pain in the behind?

It's a bit of a resource hog

Does it hog more resources than EAC, Nero, and JRMC all running at once? Genuinely curious.

and the interface is nicely non-standard

Or if you wanted too look at it differently, Windows interface is non-standard. As many other comments have pointed out, this is an Apple product ported to Windows made to function as closely as possible to OSX, so, the interface is actually pretty close to "standard" to OSX.

Re:What's th Difference?

[topham]

You pay for the engineering.

I bought a Mac (G51.6) a yeah ago, the current OS runs a Mach kernel with a BSD layer for Unix compatibility.

It means you get the benfits of a microkernel in a Unix-like environment. (device drivers don't require a re-compile / linking, etc).

An accessible Unix like environment, with a large level of compatibility for open source programs.

A GUI that was designed to be used, not just look pretty. (It does though). A base set of applications that are strong enough for daily use, and easy enough for the casual user.

A programming environment that makes putting together a small application, with nice looking windows easy.

The next version of the OS (Tiger) adds in some system-wide features which will make the playform even sweeter.

Most of what I've grown to like about the Mac is that is appeals to the technical side of me in it;s clean design without limiting it's functionality.

(now if they can just fix openGL to not suck as bad as it does right now... )

Just wait...

[RealProgrammer]

until all those iPods start exploding and giving people brain cancer like cell phones, and getting them arrested.

Then they will see they were wrong for deserting me. Our product is safe: it doesn't explode, give you cancer, or get you arrested. What is security if not safety? I'm the Chief Software Architect, for it, you know.

I'll show you who is right, and then you'll pay -- you'll all pay!

- Bill G

Is This a Surprise Really?

[Cycline3]

The iPod is killer kit. It's well built and easy to use. Who wouldn't look at a Mac after running Windows and then getting an iPod and realizing, "it doesn't have to suck! Wow I never knew that!"

I switched.

[RatBastard]

I switched from PC to Mac after I got my iPod. The iPod wasn't the main reason I switched, but it was the final argument. I was tired of all of the viruses, exploits, etc.. on Windows, as well as all of the other crap Windows users put up with every day. My switch to Mac had been slowly brewing from the day Mac OS X first came out.

And yes, I did try Linux, but I always wound up at the same point after installing it: "Ok, now what?" and never having an answer to that question.

Re:Hahahaha.... the fools!

[computerme]

so let me get this straight. Don't buy a mac since you can't "play" with your little "nintendo" shoot'm up games and you can't infringe (steal!) copyrighted material.

how's that spyware working out for you?

Ever think people that don't play ataris anymore or who do not steal music don't see a problem with that?

I switched...

[yourexhalekiss]

to Linux after using FireFox for a little while. I think it's entirely possible that someone would consider switching to Mac from PC because of the iPod. It's definitely a killer app.

Repeat after me:

[Resident Geek]

Correlation is not causation.

It's just as plausible that sunspot frequency affects stock prices or hem lines.

Jeez, people, think a little more critically. Now, granted, brand quality may be a factor in these users' decisions. But it's a far leap to then suggest that it's the cause.

Just switched

[piGuy314]

I just made the switch yesterday. In fact, I'm typing this post on my new wireless 12" iBook. Like others, I had been thinking about switching for a while. The price was of course the main thing keeping me from pulling the trigger, but I decided to just let my wallet take the hit. Having used the iBook for a day now, I can say I'm glad I switched. OSX is as awesome as awesome as everybody says. It is perhaps the only OS to really succeed in combining user friendliness with power. It's awesome for casual computer use and just as awesome for power computing. I also like the fact that macs tend to hold their value well. Sure, I could have bought a Dell for a lot cheaper, but in a year my iBook will have more market value than a Dell. Plus it's also great that the iBook came with tons of free software; everything from music composition software to development tools. I was a huge anti-mac guy years ago. Back in grade school I even waged an anti-mac campaign (long story). But with OSX, my long standing prejudice was gone. To anyone considering making the switch, I would recommend it. The price may seem high, but you really do get a lot for your money. I think the price premium is worth it for the top-notch hardware and software.

And besides,

[Jucius Maximus]

Did they consider the number of people that would switch from Mac to PC now that iPod and iTunes work on Windows?

(No, they didn't. I read this article before it was posted.)

Re:If only my iPod would do that

[someonehasmyname]

You can. Plug the iPod in. When iTunes opens, select the iPod from the "Source" List, and then double click a track. The track will play fine.

Copying from the iPod is a different story. You'll have to download a freeware (sometimes GPL) app to do that, beacause Apple couldn't make it that easy to steal music and still pull off the iTunes Music Store.

strong customer satisfaction

[Twid]

another result mentioned in this article is that 199 out of the 200 people surveyed were happy with their iPod.

That's a pretty incredible result for any consumer electronics gadget.

Also, I believe no one surveyed was unhappy with the lack of Ogg Vorbis support. In fact, when asked about whether Ogg was important to them, the most common answer was "I only like Ogg at Christmas with a little nutmeg on top." :)

Sorry, price isn't stopping you from getting a Mac

[5n3ak3rp1mp]

Maybe a HIGH-END Mac, but:
1) not a laptop- Mac laptops are pretty damn price-competitive with PC laptops
2) not a consumer-level Mac- Prices are also very competitive
3) Not a used Mac- If you want to try it without too much risk, get a used Mac on eBay. You'll likely be able to sell it for not much cheaper than you bought it for, if you don't like it (since Macs hold value much better than PC's). And it thus won't dent your precious mortgage payment.

The only way price (and I'm just talking the raw dollars) MAY be stopping you is if you build your own PC. But man, if those headaches are worth it to you, then I can't help you. The value of headache-free computing, quality components, and the nice, hassle-free interface should really be experienced to understand.

Funny how the iPod is successful

[5n3ak3rp1mp]

because Macs aren't as successful.

They use the same paradigm:
1) High standards
2) Design and user interface are the priority
3) Quality components
4) Style and marketing
5) Priced higher than most competitors as a result

Since both a Mac and an iPod basically seem to use the same business model, why is it that iPods are so successful now? Is it because most people simply find it easier to save up a few hundred bucks for a nice music player versus a couple thousand for a much nicer computing experience? Is it due to the "network effect" of "all my friends have pc's, so I won't get a mac" (hehe "all my friends have spyware and viruses, I guess it's normal for me to also have them")? Perhaps the iPod was able to break out of this network effect and create one of its own? What do you folks think?

Re:Funny how the iPod is successful

[Warlock7]

Only problem is 5.
They're not priced higher than most competitors with comparable features and capabilities.

They're perceived to be priced higher because they don't offer a low-end (POS) to match up against the competition that are driven by the low-end market that those other manufacturers pander to. On top of that, there is no other company that offers the ease-of-use, integration, stability and security that Apple can offer out of the box.


Before the flaming starts, I don't care about what you can scrape together in your home from scouring the universe for inexpensive components because you don't include the value of your own time for those projects, if you did then your "built it myself" boxes are far more expensive than any other machine out there. This is about features and hardware by valid retail/internet manufacturers.

Re:Funny how the iPod is successful

[EvilTwinSkippy]

I think the very fact that Apple is still in business, AND selling non-x86 computers running their own proprietary OS is success enough. Think about how many other computer companies have either died out or capitulated to the Wintel camp.

They don't have to put anyone out of business. They just have to sell a few million machines a year. Comparing Apple to most other computer companies is like comparing a Diamler/Benz to a GM. People by other brands because they need a car. People by a Benz because they want a Benz.

Re:Funny how the iPod is successful

[lingsb]

The network effect for Windows PCs is that people use Windows at work, so that is what they're used to. Therefore, they buy a Windows PC for home use too.

An MP3 player doesn't have that network effect.

The iPod merely brought attention to iBook or G5

[SgtChaireBourne]

The iPod brought attention to iBook or G5. They probably bought it, liked it and then thought, "hey, if iPod is this good, I ought to at least check out an iBook or G5." The rest is history.

iBooks are the single best device out there for college students and many others. Excellent form factor, easy to use, even easier to maintain, good bang for the buck. The main drawback is the Microsoft effect, which has convinced users that all computers are slow to start up, slow to wake up, hard to configure, hard to use, virus prone, etc. and all alike and therefore won't look at anything new.

If one gets over that, for whatever reason, then rational though has a chance to. The push can come from an iPod or elsewhere. e.g. I loaned one out for 2 hours to an "MS is good enough for me and I'm not changing" small business owner. At the end of the two hours, he stated that his next hardware purchase will be a Mac. But for most, iPod will be the wake up.

I'm one of the switchers, thanks iPod.

[PTBNL]

I've been a long-time PC user, and I'm a Windows software developer.

I've been building my own PCs since 1996, which I know makes me a relative noob on Slashdot.

I had a Creative Nomad Jukebox, and it sucked. Traded it away last Christmas, and just from looking at the features and such, I impulse-bought a 20" G4 iMac.

Ok, perhaps it wasn't a complete impulse buy - I spent probably three days doing solid research - figuring out if I could VPN in to work with it (I could), seeing how useful OpenOffice was on OS X (very), and if the GIMP was supported (thanks, Darwin project).

Back to the point, the iPod and the hype surrounding it got me to the Apple web site. The Apple web site got me into the local Apple store, and a personal test drive got me into the driver's seat of an iMac. Just like in the Apple sales seminars, I'm sure.

Almost one solid year later, and I don't regret it a bit, btw. I've become a Mac evangilist to my family.

iPod is the gateway drug

[jnd3]

I've been a fairly enthusiastic PC user (building and upgrading my own PCs) for a little over a decade. Just over a year ago I was in the market for a digital audio player to get me across the Atlantic Ocean for vacation (I haven't found a drug yet that lets me sleep on an airplane). At that time, a 512MB player was going for about $250. The 15GB iPod was about $100 more. So I figured I might as well future-proof myself.

It was a brilliant piece of consumer electronics -- intuitive, functional, and downright slick-looking. And then they announced the iPod mini, and my wife's lust-o-meter got pegged. We took a trip to the Apple store "just to look" and ended up looking at everything else in the store as well. We didn't go home with an iPod mini, but we did go home with a 12.1" iBook. To share.

Shortly thereafter, we'd saved enough Amazon.com points to get an iPod mini on the cheap. His and hers, now. But the mini meant that the iBook would now be the sync machine of choice ... no more sharing! So we waited around for a deal on PowerBooks and picked up a 12" model. His and hers, and loving it!

So yeah, we're DINK without too many expenses. And I still maintain and use my PC. But I can guarantee that we wouldn't have even considered a Mac if it hadn't been for an iPod. Of course, that's just our personal experience, but how many more must think the same way?

Re:The iPod merely brought attention to iBook or G

[ZorinLynx]

One of my favorite things about today's Macs running OSX is that they have appeal for both the novice computer user, who wants everything easy, and the geek, who wants to do more advanced thing.

The GUI is there and simple for novice users, and the UNIX shell and environment are there for the more advanced people. It's truly an OS that works for everyone.

I never even looked at Macs when it was OS9 and before, because it didn't provide anything for my geeky self to dig into. But today's macs and OSX are just sweeeet.

I just wish Apple would get more competive, price-wise, with the Intel world. I know lots of people who would buy a Mac in an instant if they weren't so overpriced.

-Z

Re:Oxymoron

[Fulcrum of Evil]

vi with eye-candy, that's an oxymoron.

What are you on about? vi is all about eye candy. Real programmers use ed.

Audioscrobbler supports iPods on Macs only

[giveuptheghost]

Audioscrobbler only supports iPod with iTunes Mac currently. (Audioscrobbler is a plugin that records and shares your listening habits and was featured here before). There's an Audioscrobbler iTunes Windows plugin but no definite plans to support iPod yet.

That's almost enough to get me to buy a Mac.

-Scott

I am one of those people

[kendoka]

Normally I would find this story odd, except after I read it, I realized I too was one of those people. =) (Well okay, being a *NIX junkie helps too. =))

Re:If only my iPod would do that

[SlamMan]

You can do it from the command line too.

Re:switched programming languages because of IDE

[Durandal64]

Eclipse has some nice features, but dear God, I hate the way it handles projects and filesystems, and the UI can just be a confusing mess. What is it with Java apps and putting every god damn thing in the same window? Are multiple windows really that bad?

I can easily manage my Xcode projects in Subversion, but I haven't been able to figure out what the hell Eclipse is doing with its "workspaces" or whatever. I couldn't figure out the debugger either. Xcode was extremely easy to get used to; I don't think you give it enough credit. It's clean, simple and does what it does well. Sure, there are some nuances I'd like to see cleaned up, but it's definitely my IDE of choice.

Well, the iPod made me switch

[Wabbit Wabbit]

When I decided to buy an iPod last summer, Windoze support wasn't out yet. Despite the fact that I've coded under DOS and Windows since the 2.11 days (and Linux for about a decade) and even worked as a programmer - briefly- for the "evil empire", I was so impressed with how easily everything in the Mac world interconnected I decided to investigate that curious creature called "Powerbook".

You know where this is headed...I'm typing this on a 17" Powerbook in Starbucks, connected via WiFi. I've booted my pc about 6 times in the last year, and 2 of those were from SLAX.

I've sunk about $10k into Mac/Apple hardware and software, and I couldn't be happier. I have NO plans of ever going back.

So yes, here's one case of a techie who really did switch!

Simple Reasons.

[jellomizer]

Why is sales up for Apple because of iPod PC -> Mac switchers. It is rather simple, Person has a PC. They buy an iPod. To Buy the iPod they may walk into an Apple Store or an Apple Reseller. While in the store they see the other produducts out there. A percentage of them like the product line and buys a Mac the next time they want to upgrade.

Most people when upgrading there PC they don't even think about going to Mac. I wasn't when I was thinking about getting a new Notbook a couple of years ago. Then while me and my friends were at the mall they wanted to rent a Tux and I didn't so while they were at the Tux store I went next door to the Apple Store and looked at what they had to offer then I decided I like what I saw. Then doing some more reshearch and cost comparison I decided to get the Powerbook because it was the best deal for what I wanted.

So the popularity of the iPod just basicly reminds people when they need a New PC that Macs are a possible solution.

Of Halos & Macs... It's all about the games...

[Starluck]

I am a Graphic Artist and a huge gamer. I work on a mac daily and then go home and play games on my PC. I personally like the interface and smoothness of the mac in comparison, but my big problem here are the GAMES!!! I believe Apple missed a HUGE opportunity in shunning the game market. If I could play the same games on my mac as on my PC I would definately have a MAC at home, but thats not the case. Apple left gamers lying in the mud only to be rescued by one Bill Gates and MS. IMHO there would be a much less of a divide between MAC/PCs if MACS were more gamer friendy... Just imagine if Apple bought Bungi, and Halo was released for the MAC first, I think that would have been more significant than the iPod in bringing poeple to the MAC side. So some1 please explain to me, because I fail to understand apple's stance on not making gaming a significant capability of Macs..

I Second That!!!

[Black-Man]

Eclipse rocks. I even think it is comparable to Code Warrior's IDE and even Visual Studio. The plugin support is phenomonal. This is where Apple needs to focus, adding XCode plugin to Eclipse.

Re:Me Too, From Linux

[easter1916]

I thought that I'd use my desktops (XP Pro and Linux) once the novelty of my PB 17" wore off... I sold them off realized that I hadn't booted either in a few months. Still going strong with that PB!

Re:Mac Envy

[easter1916]

That it's "cool" doesn't take away from the fact that it's a great platform and also has great design. I didn't buy a PB because I wanted to be "cool" (believe me, I abandoned that "dream" a looooong time ago) but because I, personally, loved the OS and the hardware.

Re:I won't try iTunes

[Johnny Mnemonic]

When a Nokia phone comes out with 20GB storage, will you be able to load your iTunes onto that?

YES. Yes, you will. The only songs that have Apple's DRM on them are songs purchased from Apple's iTunes Music Store; that is, downloaded.

The songs that you rip from your own CDs you can rip to either MP3, AAC, Apple Lossless, AIFF, or even .WAV. None of these formats have DRM, as it would be naturally pretty stupid to encode your own song library with DRM restrictions. Even AAC is an open format; while Apple's store does use a form of AAC, it lays on a DRM that is not standard, and not the same format as what you get when you rip it yourself.

So, to repeat--yes. The music stays your own, and you will be able to put it on anything that can understand your choice of format, be it MP3 or AAC, including a 20GB Nokia phone or a 1TB TiVo. Just don't download anything that you have to pay for.

might be a small margin...

[-O.ster_66]

but those are HUGE computers!

how much do 14'-17' computers weigh? more than 8 lbs i bet :)

elegant and sleek are criteria that make anything!

[2nd Post!]

Since when has elegance and 'sleekness' been bad?

Why do you even assume it's about image and self esteem or feeling better about yourself?

An iPod is undeniably sleek and elegant when compared to everything that came before it, and many that came after it.

The same with Apple computers.

There are TECHNICAL reasons why elegance is a worthwhile attribute for any device, not just mp3 players or computers. Sleekness requires definition, but elegance has it's own context:
Gracefulness.

You can also define things by the inverse, in this case elegance:
Clumsiness.

So if a computer is graceful and not clumsy, I think anyone would agree that it is better than a computer that is clumsy and not graceful.

Re:what is so great about iTunes?

[gerardrj]

Describe "huge" gaps.
iTunes I think defaults to 3 seconds between tracks. You can set it as low as no gap or turn it up to 5s.

Re:The iPod merely brought attention to iBook or G

[arminw]

...they weren't so overpriced...

The initial price of a computer is only a fraction of its true cost. This is especially true if your time is valuable. For portables the price difference between an iBook and a similarly equipped Wintel system is actually in Apple's favor, especially if you figure in the expense in time and money to get the Wintel system reasonably secure against all the malware it is susceptible to. This is an ongoing effort not needed for the iBook.

Re:Money, money, money

[waynelorentz]

I can't imagine spending that much on a gizmo. I use a $10 Sony Walkman. Works great. I also couldn't even begin to consider buying an Apple. People who have that much disposable income are a completely different market segment than the general population.

I can't imagine spending $10 on a Sony Walkman. I hum tunes in my head for free. Works great. I also coudn't even begin to consider buying a Sony. People who have $10 disposable income are on a completely different plane of reality than the general public.

Rather infectious, aren't they?

[Warhaven]

Here at my work, it took only one IT member to purchase a 17" powerbook to convert nearly the entire department. Now there are a slew of iBooks & PowerBooks running amok in IT.

I too just picked one up a couple months back. Purchased the 15" powerbook, and I must say, it's a beautiful machine. Unix never looked so sweet.

Re:The iPod merely brought attention to iBook or G

[mrchaotica]

I was completely agreeing with you until I got to the last paragraph. Macs, at least the white ones, are not overpriced. In fact, I comparison shopped for a thin-and-light and ended up buying a 12" iBook because it was the best value, even without factoring in OS X. And considering the fact that to truly equate a PC with an iMac you'd have to price out the CPU plus the 17" or 20" widescreen LCD, iMac G5s are probably a better value too.

Re:The iPod merely brought attention to iBook or G

[argent]

I am constantly amazed by this comment about "If only Macs were cheaper".

Why? People do care about price.

Apple simply doesn't make a machine that can sell into the entry-level market. When Joe User can get a mini-tower PC with a flat panel for less than an eMac, he isn't even going to look at an iMac.

And Joe already has a PC, so upgrading to a desktop Mac is even less attractive, because he's already got a monitor he's happy with: it's almost certainly a better one than the eMac's (which is why the eMac doesn't interest him).

If Apple took the entry level eMac, stripped out the CRT, and stuck the rest in a pretty slab like the NeXTstation... and sold it for $600 (about the price of a good 17" CRT below the eMac) then they'd have something that Joe User could replace their PC with that only seems a little bit overpriced.

And now that Joe's looking at Macs, that iMac looks pretty damned cool.

And Apple would win, because they'd still get decent margins from the G4 "iSwitch" slab: it's still a good 50% more expensive than a comparable desktop PC.

I'm one of them....

[sejanus]

I HATED MACS with a passion - OS7/8/9 were such complete piles of garbage. Give me a PC thanks...

But fast forward quite a few years after that and I bought an ipod to use on the (long) train trip to/from work. It was great. That seemed to get me over the apple brand hurdle and as it was so well made it got me curious.

A few months later the time had come to buy a laptop. I looked at the PC's and they weren't bad - for kicks I looked at the powerbook and it looked very nice thank you. I deliberated for a couple of months over it....then bought a old G4 tower from ebay as a test to see if I liked OS X or not....

Well, I did. I'm a Unix/network admin at my Mon-Fri job and the unix underneath of OS X was great. Installed fink and starting running my unix progs, it was great. I was hooked.

In addition I do wedding photography on weekends, and used iDVD to great success with a wedding DVD. That clinched it. I sold the G4 on ebay (and bizarrely made money on it) and bought a 1.5ghz 15" powerbook with all the fruit including 2gb ram. It did cost a lot but it's probably the best machine I've used, simply trouble free.

Apple hadn't finished with my finances yet. When those airport express units came out i thought that would be very nice and bought 2 to wire my whole house up and stream music to my main hi-fi. excellent.

Then I decided a I needed a nice fat display to edit my wedding photos on, so I bought a 23" cinema display for home, and a wireless kb/mouse to make my laptop a "desktop" at home. It's the best display I've ever used. As it was a lot of money I did look around at different brands but the apple got the nod although it was noticeably more expensive, the quality of it is staggering.

Now my wife wants her own laptop after using mine a bit at night, or an iMac G5. And I want to get a dual G5 2.5ghz as one of the cameras I use for weddings generates 80mb files which does take a little while to load on the powerbook :)

So you can see from an ipod sale apple got a fair bit of money out of me. My wife being a school teacher we bought it all on education pricing but it was still a lot of money.

Re:The jedis are in full swing

[nek]

Considering Apple has sold MILLIONS of iPods, and are projected to sell 24 million NEXT YEAR, I think 6 or 7 percent is quite a nice chunk of switchers.

Happened to me...

[rediguana]

I got an ipod in July last year. Had been enjoying it, using iTunes on a Toshiba laptop happily, but in the back of my mind entertained the thought of investigating Macs. OS9 and less weren't even an option, but the BSD basis and command line got my attention. I still had ignored the first couple of releases of OSX as they had coverage of being slow as a wet week.

In the end the decision was forced upon me. My laptop HD failed about 3 days before I was heading overseas for 3 weeks. Did some quick research and ended up getting a PowerBook and it has been great.

I hate going back to XP now, I only do it for certain work applications now. Happily connecting to linux servers regularly. Things do just work so much more smoothly and are more reliable. I look after 4 PC laptops in our small business, and windows wireless is so flaky under XPSP2. I have no troubles.

Microsoft Office 2004 on Mac is much better than 2003 on PCs, and interoperates with no problems. And its great being able to open a shell and rsync to backup the important stuff on the servers. I'm starting to find a good range of open source software to use as well. iSync is great as I can sync iCal and Addressbook to my Palm, K700i phone and ipod all at once. Only real downsides I have is that there is no Visio or Project available (otherwise I'd be able to move the rest of our work laptops to Macs as well, Virtual PC is OK but not suitable for my other users) or there is no decent New Zealand mapping software that runs natively. Hopefully these will be remedied over time though one means or other.

Re:Happened to me...

[nicolasf]

You can get OmniGraffle, a diagramming tool like Visio but better. Like you've come to expect.

You can export/import Visio XML files in the Pro version.

Re:Only the rich

[pressman]

If having about $600 total in the bank and a DP 1.8GHz on my desk count as rich, well then the economy is in worse shape then I thought!

Reasonable comparison

[xgamer04]

How many thousands of /. posts have there been about people who still use Windows because it's the only "game" OS? Now when there's some marginal number of people who bought a Mac because they have an ipod, people are all "OMG SO NOT TRUE!11". What's the deal, man?

Look & Feel

[jdwegner]

As a former NeXT programmer/admin, I really hated to go back to Windows. NeXTSTEP was just so seamless and, well, pretty. I've eaven tried multiple distros of Linux, trying to get back to the "good ol days". Today, for the money and the apps I use, Windows is still the easiest.

But then I was given an iPod (4G 20GB). Just holding it makes me want to go "ahhhhh". The ease of use and functionality made me realize that Windows is just one big compromise. XP is much better than older versions, but it's just not the same.

My current laptop is a 5-year-old IBM ThinkPad. It has served me well. My next laptop will be a powerbook. I really like the ahhhhhhhhhh...

jdw

I can confirm this...

[SnprBoB86]

Three of my friends at college have made the switch to OSX over this past summer. One of them told me that the iPod was his "gateway drug" to becoming a Mac user. The other two quickly agreed that they became converts in a similar way. One saw an OSX demo in the Apple section of a Comp USA while buying an iPod and the other was introduced to Macs when asking a friend about his Mac and iPod before buying one.

Seeing as none of them are particuarly computer literate, I've helped a few of them with various applications. As a result I have become a proponent of Macs for technically-challeneged people. They are in a technological bliss I have never seen with the average casual user.

Instead of continuing the Linux crusade, I suggest techies push OSX on people. It will be an easier switch and will eventually help everyones anti-Microsoft cause. In the end it will even help Linux because software will be built with Windows/Unix cross platformity in mind.

Re:Money, money, money

[MysteriousPreacher]

It's all right for Mr Moneybags who can afford to be sued by the RIAA for unlawful reproduction of copyrighted works.

Me, I just tap my head with a stick.

Re:If only my iPod would do that

[maniac trek]

Copying from the iPod is a different story. You'll have to download a freeware (sometimes GPL) app to do that, beacause Apple couldn't make it that easy to steal music and still pull off the iTunes Music Store.

If you're running OS X, there's a script that will import tracks from an iPod to your iTunes library. Seemed easy enough to me.

Count me in...

[djallstar]

I am one user who switched to Macintosh because of my positive experience with the iPod.

Although I run PC's at home; i bought my first Macintosh last month (an iBook G4 -- i've used them but not regularly, in the past--OS X being *IX is a HUGE draw for me)

All the subsequent family Computers will now be Macintoshes.

j.