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Some iPod Fans Dump PCs For Macs
dereklam writes "The popularity of the iPod could be boosting Macs' popularity as well. News.com reports that 6 percent of iPod users have made the switch from PCs to Macs. An additional 7 percent said they are planning to dump their old PC for an Apple machine, according to the survey." I wish the linked story had more details; it's not clear from the results mentioned whether there's a strong causal relationship here.
Personally, I choose my peripherals based on my OS/Hardware, not the other way around.
I gues it was a smart move for the iPOd to work with Windows and Macs?
Works great on my Linux box BTW. Whew. Good thing too, girlfriend would think I was giving her a line of poop trying to explai why she's got to get me a different gift.
Looks like that marketing plan paid off after all. I always suspected Microsoft was wrong when they thought that capturing the media player market was significant to overall market-share.
I'd say I've been proved wrong.
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
I had always thought that Mac users were a rabid, elitist group until I started using the iPod. It was an upgrade from my older iRiver player. I'm far too entrenched in my PC to switch, but I'll admit that I'm Mac-curious now.
They ran this same story on OS News.
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=8945 [OSNews.com]
I bought a Sony Vaio because it has a special connection that allows me to plug my walkman into it and play cassettes through the speakers!
Clearly the article lacks meaningful statistics
Maybe I'm not looking at this deep enough, but what does a piece of hardware for playing MP3s have to do with personal computers? How different is this from, say, people switching from Mac to a Sony Notebook because they like their Sony DVD player?
Dan East
Better known as 318230.
In a related story, it was found that 7% of all people who have recently purchased a vintage reel-to-reel player would be willing to purchase a used PDP-11 if the price was right.
Unknown host pong.
Apple survives on getting people to pay very high prices for cool looking products. Once Apple gets people buying iPods, it would only make sense that those same sheeps would also start buying overpriced but pretty Macs.
Sure it's flamebait, sure it's troll, but it's also true... and you know it.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Wallstreet seems to think there is.
http://www.rootstrikers.org/
The IPod interfaces well with the Mac, I have used both versions, and iTunes on the Mac is much faster and more consistant with MacOSX. I still have an x86 machine for running windows, but my most of my work is done on my Powerbook. Once you have tried the Mac it is hard to go back to the Windows box.. So from personal experience, I believe this could be true.
*narf!*
correlation is not causation...
This article seems to miss the obvious: all iPod users are iTunes users, and although the iPod interface is a joy, it's the iTunes interface that introduces the "look and feel" of OS X to PC iPod users. The fact that Apple broke with UI guidelines on the PC, led many to argue that iTunes for Windows was bloated and slow. But now it seems clear that for Apple it was paramount to keep the iTunes experience as close to OS X as possible.
If these numbers are correct (and pan out) then Apple's "gamble" turned out to be correct.
I knew they were planting subliminal messages in my mp3s... because as soon as I got my ipod I started craving other mac products, like an ibook, or an imac. *puts on tinfoil hat* It's a conspiracy and this "study" proves it's working!!
I personally have 3 PCs
Gaming PC
3.0GHZ work / gaming laptop
AMD snapstream media pc.
Im thinking about getting an IBook though, since they are so small, and just running the dreamweaver suite/photoshop on it. is photoshop 7 too powerful for the 12 inch Ibook?
also, how long does the battery last watching a movie on an airplane?
and yes, i do have an Ipod and it indirectly got me looking at Macs... since i had to go into the mac store to get a Griffin Itrip
Sig- http://www.dreamhost.com/rewards.cgi?ayefly
6% of fresh fruit consumers have made the switch from PCs to Macs. An additional 7 percent of the apple eaters said they are planning to dump their old PC for an Apple machine; it's not clear, however from the results mentioned whether there's a strong causal relationship here.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
I kinda think that's the point of the story. People finding the iPod a sufficiently good reason to switch their OS is not a run of the mill event. How many people switch just because there's a neat new scanner out on the market? Or for a new printer? (Not counting high-end RIPs, of course, since they're pretty much stand-alone.)
It isn't the iPod's doing. Its OS X. Its GUI Rocks. I'd run it too if I could get it for x86 processors. The amazing thing is, now that Processors are fast enough for the average user, the raw power of the CPU is less important and the GUI matters more. That's why people are _contemplating_ Linux or switching to Mac.
I would not purchase one of the devices for myself, but I would recommend them to others who don't need to upgrade a lot or tinker. For those who aren't power users, they are a nice package.
Before the iPod I wouldn't have even considered recommending Apple machines to anyone though. So I'm sort of on board.
[insert sig file here]
Does this make the iPod a gateway Mac?
No problem, meet us on the corner of 27th and St. James on Wednesday at 10:00 pm.
Bring your iPod and leather boots...
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
I have to admit that I have never used a Mac and I really don't know much about them... Saying that can anyone give me a quick/fast explanation of the major difference between Macs and PCs? If I am going to pay a lot for a PC then I am gonna make sure that I am paying because the functionality is there (like buying Alienware of FNW for gaming), but it seems to me that people are inclined to say Macs are just more expensive because they are Macs?
News Reporters Make Tasty Polar Bear Treats!
I saw this article a while ago, and then ran a few numbers in my head. Given the number of ipods Apple sells is a little under the number of computers sold, in an average quarter, this is not really surprising at all. I don't think the correlation is really meaningful. Slightly less than 6% of Apple's new computer customers have also bought ipods. Given the overlap between people into high tech gadgets and people with enough money to afford an ipod or a mac, I'm surprised these numbers aren't higher.
Once you try Mac...
Mike van Lammeren
It will challenge your head, your brain, and your mind.
ok lets settle this... the iPod is not the only way to listen to music, and the mac is not the only way to use an iPod. I wish most users could understand this. Of course I guess if you are going to drop the $10,000 to legitimatly fill your iPod you might as well also throw in a $4,000 computer to go with it.
This "halo effect" is part of the reason why Piper Jaffray raised thier target price for AAPL to $100 a share.
-- Charles A. Plater
...if only I could afford to. $1500 for an iBook is a tad steep when you can get a P.O.S. HP or Dell laptop for $700, tops.
Especially considering that, as my "personal-use" computer, all it's ever used for is iTunes, Firefox, Thunderbird & MS Word...nothing that warrants gigaflops of raw processing power.
Maybe if Apple brought out one or two low-low-end products that could compete, price-wise, with all the mass-market, Windows-running junk out there, they could really pick up some market share...the challenge would be figuring out how to do this without undermining their brand image.
Just once I'd like someone to call me 'Sir' without adding 'You're making a scene.'
While initialy this hardly proved true, it's a very strong sales pitch to have a constant companion with an apple logo on it.
The near ubiquity, and total inunduation of ipods being everywhere also goes a long way towards making apple look like a damn good brand (if they do the ipods so well, the must be good at computers)
I think if apple keeps hammering away at highly tailored and very well-made digital appliances, there computer market share will continue to grow as people put trust in their products.
Though id rather see the specifics of this data to see whether it has any real merit.
Probably a much more intresting question is how apple is going to be able to increase their market share outside the US/japan. While your typical developed high GDP citizen can afford apple's products, getting apple products into the hands of less wealthy countries is a big stumbling block that needs to be addressed if they want to get their hands on the largest emerging computing markets.
we shall see
--Idiots, Every single one of YOU, A flaming mass of conglomerated morons, hey wait a second, isnt that how RAID works?
I just saved a ton of money by switching to Apple!
(And you were expecting car insurance!)
2 years ago I purchased an Ipod, 3 weeks ago I purchased an old B&W Powermac to try out OSX before I replace one of my systems, and today I received my brand new 1.2ghz Ibook. While I still have a PC around for gaming and other things, Im definately switching most of my usage to the Mac, its just so .... pleasurable to use. I cant say my Ipod purchase influenced my Mac purchase, but hell, its still a good peripheral. All of my current kit works with OSX, so Ive lost nothing.
Im one happy switcher.
I'd used Macs for web development in a previous job, and had always liked OS X. I was ecstatic when iTunes was released for the PC, as it was the singularly best program for managing large music collections I'd ever seen.
When I got my new job, one of the first things I did is shell out for an iPod to replace my crappy car CD changer. The Apple design philosophy appealed to me, and the incredible ease-of-use of both iTunes and the iPod were a big factor.
Last month I bought an iBook - the fact that they dropped the price, bumped up the CPU speed, and added AirPort Express for free was enough to get me off the fence. I wanted a laptop that was lighter than my old Compaq which weighs more than Kirstie Allie after camping out at a Royal Fork for a week. The iBook was light, priced competitively, and had all the features I want.
I had been trying to get my WinXP Home laptop to connect to the shared files on my XP Pro desktop for days, and finally just gave up. The iBook not only saw the network, but just asked for the password to connect. That was it. No hastle, no fiddling with network setup, no hunting through poorly documented and frequently useless configuration pages. AirPort has no trouble connecting to any wireless network I can throw at it.
My next machine may well be a Mac. It runs the software I need to be productive, the UNIX underpinnings mean that I have not only all the UNIX tools I'm used to from vim to Apache, but I also have a beautiful and usable GUI to go with it.
I hated Macs before. The "classic" Mac OS never appealed to me in the slightest. But Mac OS X is a dream to use, from running Photoshop to using it as a test server with the built-in copy of Apache.
OS X just "gets it". It is by far the best OS I've used, and iTunes gives Windows users a preview of how well Mac software works. The iPod and iTunes are the perfect "gateway drug" into full-fledged Mac addiction. Macs have always been a niche product, and Apple has always been a niche retailer. But if the iPod helps drive even a small number of PC users towards the Apple platform, it's a net gain to Apple on top of the incredibly strong sales of the iPod line.
Now of course I know correlation != causation but I had this thought.
:)
I'd imagine a small percentage (say 10%) of iPod users probably bought the most expensive model at the time be it the large 40GB iPod or the new iPod Photo. Whereas most of us don't have the money to drop on the latest and greatest iPod this group could purchase 1 or more if they so desired.
As another post pointed out it's probably people in this group (fat wallets) who are making the switch. "I can afford the $500 dollar iPod might as well as get the computer that goes along with it". So there's your 6%.
Personally I'm too entrenched in my Windows box, and I can't afford an iPod let alone a whole computer from Apple. Anyone want to get me an early Christmas Gift? Heck a belated gift if it's an iPod
--J
I really hated Apple products, until I got my iPod. Then I started to notice that it was pretty well engineered and thought out. (Little things, like when you pull the headphones out of the jack, it pauses the music). Eventually, I started to talk to our resident Mac fanatic at work, and he kept showing me similar examples of "coolness" on his PowerBook, and eventually it added up to sell me on buying a PowerBook for my next computer purchase. I'm sure I'll have Linux on there as a dual boot, but I have to agree that without the iPod, it would have taken a lot to get me to give OS X and Apple a chance.
-Jay
Find me a PC laptop that comes out of the box with firewire, USB 2.0, 4+ hours battery life, small form factor, runs office natively, offers X windows support, intergrates all the GNU tools into the OS, and does it all for less than 1200 bucks out the door...Apple builds the best notebooks, IMO, because they offer the best form factor/battery life/software package out there.
I believe the underlying issue at hand is the declining usability gap between Microsoft products and all others. Not only are the other technology companies getting better at catering to the average customer, but the average customer is getting more and more savvy. All it takes is one glimpse of the other side of the coin to realize that there are wonderful products out there that don't include M$. That glimpse could be Firefox, iPod, KDE or VI... well... maybe not KDE.
That's why they raised their price target on AAPL to $100 (and also why AAPL gained six bucks a share two days ago).
MacWorld UK has a related story today.
No matter how you look at it, if the "halo effect" is real, it's a Good Thing(tm) for Apple, and probably for the industry in general, because it proves that there are legitimate alternatives to Windows for the non-techie crowd.
p
In Korea, long hair is for old people!
I agree that this study is rather dubious, but I also think that winning the embedded market does win desktops with it. So how should Free OSs exploit this? You can make something as "cool" as a zaurus, but you will only attract the uber-nerd. What kind of embedded devices can be made with elegant interfaces like the ipod with great support on Free OSs? Should someone be pushing for an embedded handheld linux video player?
-S
--- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
Why is this story listed under OS 9? If you're going to put a Mac OS there, shouldn't it be OS X?
That's how they're doing it - iPods overlay "buy a mac - you want to buy a mac - buying a mac will make you ubersexy and desireable - buying a mac will make you a better person - vote bush." over your music as you listen to it...
Paranoid Ramblin's...
I don't know if this article is believable, but one thing that I've experienced that adds to its credibility at least to me is that I've noticed how many people out there will not download or try itunes. It's a free program. It runs on PCs. It has killer cataloging capabilities, localized network streaming capabilities (I run an iTunes streamer for all my mp3s at home to my stereo). The music store has TONS of 'indie' level bands, so phat chance of not finding something. And the burning and sound effects as well. Sheesh.
... especially if it's frigging free. How about just try it, Scott?
... it's that move that makes the person switch, not the actual performance of availability of software or other crazy usual analyses. They don't care if it's better or worse. People stick to computing platforms as if they are political ones oddly (ok THAT doesn't make sense either, bad example), regardless of whtether or not the platform actually suits them 100%. I know musicians using PCs who won't use macs. I know business majors who use Macs who won't use PCs.
...
Yet I know people who are so simple minded they will not even try the thing. One guy I know, who won't d/l it told me to run out and buy this album by killswitch engage. I told him I'd catch it on iTunes. He of course dismissed this idea, saying they'd never have that kind of album. Well we did an indie band run down of his entire collection, chose 10 bands, and 8 out of ten was on iTunes.
I guess my point is, that, from a computer scientist's viewpoint like my own, I don't care what you run, as I XP, Linux, and Macs, and love them all equally, but if you're going to badmouth a product, at least have the nuts to TRY the thing
But back to my original point
Am I odd for trying to see the good in every platform? Sheesh, you should see my political beliefs
-- (Score:i , Imaginary)
The analyst actually saw a conversion rate of 12%, however he halved the number to be conservative before calculating his valuation of AAPL.
I have a website. It's about Macs.
I have been idly contemplating buying myself a mac box for some time now, however after seeing Apple's increasingly Microsoft-like stance, I'm going to stick to what I know.
It appears to me that Apple are resting on their laurels with the iPod. There hasn't been any major innovation for some time now - sticking on a colour screen doesn't count as innovation I'm afraid. And personally I dislike the interface - for example, if someone needs to tell me how to turn the damn thing off, that's not a good design. So basically, Apple have got the dominant position, then stagnated. Exactly what happened with Internet Explorer.
The fact that Apple doesn't license their DRM scheme to anyone is surely exactly the type of behaviour that caused such hatred towards Microsoft?
I'm sorry, Apple are far too much like Microsoft nowadays. I will not be buying a Mac.
i didn't dump the mac for pc hardware because of the iPod, but the attractive little doodad certainly didn't take away from the decision. i switched from my linux PC (amd Athlon XP2000+) to a dual G5. I love the eye candy and ease of use of the GUI, but the power of what lies under the hood. Honestly i'm am very pleased and i can't say i'm going back any time soon.
os/car similies*:
Windows - Honda Civic, no torque, but somewhat stylish, everyone has one, moderately priced
Linux - 80's 5.0 Mustang, so much power, iffy on looks (sometimes someone does one up nice), cult following, find one for almost nothing
OS X - Aston Martin Vanquish, sexy, powerful, small cult following, priced out of this world!
*meant to be taken as a joke
JediLuke
-Do or Do Not, There is no Try
OS X runs on a Mach kernel.
...listening to music, they no longer have any time for gaming.
1. Buy an iPod
2. Go into Apple Store or browse Apple section of local computer store for the first time looking for iPod-related stuff.
3. Play around with an iMac.
4. Decide you like the iMac experience.
5. Think about buying one.
Seems like a pretty obvious likelyhood to me.
On a not entirely unrelated note, the next version of the MacOS, codenamed Tiger, is nothing short of fantastic. I saw a demo and played around with it a bit at last week's London Mac Expo and I can honestly say that it makes Windows look like something from the Stone Age.
I'm not an Apple fan boy by any stretch of the imagination but Apple really has a fantastic product range now and the best OS out there by miles.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
I don't have an iPOD (listen to all my music at home, work, or in car, no need for one) but I bought a Mac for the first time in a decade after using iTunes on the PC. The software was so superior to anything comparable in the Windows world that I forgot how enjoyable using a Mac was.
I would love it if I could plug my iPod into my computer at work and be able to play songs on it in iTunes. As is, you can see what songs are on the iPod, but beyond that it's a lookee-no-touchee type thing.
Then they will see they were wrong for deserting me. Our product is safe: it doesn't explode, give you cancer, or get you arrested. What is security if not safety? I'm the Chief Software Architect, for it, you know.
I'll show you who is right, and then you'll pay -- you'll all pay!
- Bill G
sigs, as if you care.
How can you have strong and yet casual relationship ? Nerds, by definition, have relationship with a gadget till it becomes obselete. -a
Perhaps the iPod's stylishness makes people want to have a trendy-looking computer as well? ... And I'd argue (having used both Macs & PCs extensively) that someone who knows how to use a Win XP / 9x machine pretty well can get the hang of a Mac in a decent amount of time, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. You'd need some more in-depth market research to really make claims of iPod-caused migration stick, though - and I'm sure Apple's on top of that. If they're smart, they'll take advantage of this with some saavy tie-ins ("Buy a 40gb iPod, get a $100 rebate towards a Mac system").
You know who else is expensive, SUN. How come no one ever says "Sun sucks, they need to understand that their products are too expensive. I can build on x86 hardware so much cheaper....Until Sun makes an ultra sparc workstation with a 17inch lcd for under $700 I'll keep using shit."
I boycott signatures
The iPod is killer kit. It's well built and easy to use. Who wouldn't look at a Mac after running Windows and then getting an iPod and realizing, "it doesn't have to suck! Wow I never knew that!"
I switched from PC to Mac after I got my iPod. The iPod wasn't the main reason I switched, but it was the final argument. I was tired of all of the viruses, exploits, etc.. on Windows, as well as all of the other crap Windows users put up with every day. My switch to Mac had been slowly brewing from the day Mac OS X first came out.
And yes, I did try Linux, but I always wound up at the same point after installing it: "Ok, now what?" and never having an answer to that question.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
so let me get this straight. Don't buy a mac since you can't "play" with your little "nintendo" shoot'm up games and you can't infringe (steal!) copyrighted material.
how's that spyware working out for you?
Ever think people that don't play ataris anymore or who do not steal music don't see a problem with that?
A lot of Mac fans aren't exactly rational when it comes to the Mac.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
I question that. Not the "hell of a lot more" part literally but the definition of "hell of a lot more". A lot more what exactly? A lot more hard drive space? A lot more RAM? Maybe it's a lot more Mhz? Yes it's good to get more for less but at some point you cross a level called "enough" and in my mind both PC's and Macs are pretty far past that now. In fact for most uses they're well into "more than enough".
It's a "use what you like" type of thing. I've spent years with x86 machines and now a couple of years with Macs. I still have and use both. I liked using the Mac and OSX enough on an old beige G3 to lay down the money to get the (then) top of the line G5 last year. My advice to anyone who doesn't want to get "infected" with the desire to run OSX is to stay away from them. It doesn't take long to get you thinking that it's worth it.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
to Linux after using FireFox for a little while. I think it's entirely possible that someone would consider switching to Mac from PC because of the iPod. It's definitely a killer app.
Apple and its suppliers do not have the production capacity to increase production very much. IOW, due to lack of capacity if a lot of people wish to switch in the next year or so, they could not. This is a major reason why F500 corps will not mass deploy Macs.
And before you mod me down why don't you think about responding to what I said? Apple is a company, not a religion and speaking negative things about Apple isn't hearsay.
The main thing stopping me from getting a Mac... Price.
Or ignorance more likely.
I am not saying that the hardware is all of the best quality, but it will let me do what I need to do. With a $50 video card upgrade (not from Dell) and some extra RAM (also not from Dell) I can easily have a pretty rocking game/work machine for less than $1000.
Here at work (granted we get about 20% discount from the local computer shop) we get all intel machines, about 3Ghz, decent vid card, and at least 512 RAM all for about $800. This machine runs all but the mighteiest games with no problem. Now add a 17 inch flat panel on slickdeals for about $200 and we're back to the $1000 price point. And this is a high quality all Intel machine. Now I know that doesn't mean it is better hardware than the Mac, but it is a good solid machine that will do most everything that an owner would want, and for much cheaper than the Mac.
Unless you just don't like Windows (which I can understand for a lot of people) there is no real reason to pay the extra for the Mac other than their admittedly great style.
Don't get me wrong, I am not a Mac basher. They are great machines if you have extra money...but most of us do not.
That's why I bought my PowerMac, iPod, and PowerBook (in reverse order).
GPL Deconstructed
This was a sample of only 200 iPod windows users. Not exactly a large sample to base a correlation on.
today is spelling optional day.
After an excellent experience with the Powerbook I decided to switch to an iPod when my Creative Nomad died. (They didn't support the Mac, whereas iTunes and the iPod DO support Windows.)
The price came down enough that it didn't really matter and I prefer the AAC format sound-wise.
I'm still not wild about the battery life, but the form factor is a big win. It really fits in your pocket easily.
The revolution will NOT be televised.
Everyone seems to jump to the immediate conclusion that the iPod and iTMS are tools to try and convince people to switch platforms, but I don't quite believe that's entirely true. While the iPod is earning a lot of cash, I don't think they expected it to do this well. I think the real reason for the music push is fairly simple: not to draw new users to the platform, but merely to maintain it.
.doc situation). Their entry into the music business was really forced, because no one else would provide the content that the platform needed to remain viable as a multimedia platform (and by extension, a useful desktop platform)
Consider, if Apple hadn't gone down the music path: The primary format of every player would be MP3+Windows Media, with WM slowly taking over as people rip CDs in whatever their computer defaults to, or whatever they download/buy. The moment the ability to play Windows Media files goes away (no one providing a player for the next revision of the formats), the mac dies as a multimedia platform. If your platform can't view the content that anyone is distributing, you're toast (very much like the
It's just as plausible that sunspot frequency affects stock prices or hem lines.
Jeez, people, think a little more critically. Now, granted, brand quality may be a factor in these users' decisions. But it's a far leap to then suggest that it's the cause.
Fighting the War on the War on Drugs.
http://smokedot.org/
My wife's parents each bought ipods. Less than six months later they both bought macs. The coolest things about the ipods is it made it super easy for my 60+ year old in-laws to rip all their cds and sync them to their players. And all this they did without any help from me. Normally I have to hold their hands for all their computer needs. I was really impressed. The switch from Windows to Mac hasn't been as easy as they hoped but they still like their macs. I'm sure they'll pick it up soon enough.
I just made the switch yesterday. In fact, I'm typing this post on my new wireless 12" iBook. Like others, I had been thinking about switching for a while. The price was of course the main thing keeping me from pulling the trigger, but I decided to just let my wallet take the hit. Having used the iBook for a day now, I can say I'm glad I switched. OSX is as awesome as awesome as everybody says. It is perhaps the only OS to really succeed in combining user friendliness with power. It's awesome for casual computer use and just as awesome for power computing. I also like the fact that macs tend to hold their value well. Sure, I could have bought a Dell for a lot cheaper, but in a year my iBook will have more market value than a Dell. Plus it's also great that the iBook came with tons of free software; everything from music composition software to development tools. I was a huge anti-mac guy years ago. Back in grade school I even waged an anti-mac campaign (long story). But with OSX, my long standing prejudice was gone. To anyone considering making the switch, I would recommend it. The price may seem high, but you really do get a lot for your money. I think the price premium is worth it for the top-notch hardware and software.
to Mac for my mom. I use Unix (Solaris and Linux) and OSX is closer to what I'm used to. She has an easier time with the user interface. Mac is less susceptible to exploits.
I know other middle aged guys like myself who are moving their parents to OSX because it's easier to maintain. Growth of LInux benefits Apple. Seems so. How much, anyones guess.
Now I'm the grandest Tiger in the Jungle!
(No, they didn't. I read this article before it was posted.)
This story was the reason behind the $6+ jump in Apple's stock two days ago. I own some. I was pleased by the story.
The study was of an awfully small sampling of people, 200, but it comes from Piper Jaffray, which, it seems, is a reputable enough source to make investors listen. The analyst at Piper even felt strongly enough about the study to raise his own target price for Apple to $100 per share. (I'm betting that Apple will hit this price by Christmas, but that's another story.) And, the analyst and Piper Jaffray claim that they have no ties with Apple, financial or otherwise. So, presumably, this is a disinterested study.
The point that nobody wants to tackle is the one about the future of the computer as a home entertainment center. I switched from Windows to OS X over a year ago, but I invested in Apple when Airport Express came out. I actually use Airport Express's audio capabilities, and it works remarkably well for a first generation product. So, Apple already has a functioning, comprehensive, and innovative solution to making the computer the entertainment center, and nobody else is even out of the blocks, really.
The only thing that concerned me as an investor was whether people were ever going to realize Apple's remarkable capabilities and ease of use. What this study suggests is that the word is spreading, and that enough people are changing over to make a huge difference in Apple's bottom line.
I'm disappointed with slashdot. You guys are usually ahead of the market, not two days behind.
"...who search the reason of things
Are those who bring the most sorrow on themselves." --Euripides, The Medea
It says that 6% of the iPod users are switching from PC to Mac, but it doesn't say what percentage of iPod users were PC users to begin with.
So it's really impossible to make any conclusions from this particular statistic because it covers an over-broad demographic. It's a lot like saying that a human being has, on average, 1 breast and 1 testicle. You can't draw any meaningful information from a statistic like that.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
One thing that the PC world has that apple really needs to do something about is inexpensive machines. Sure, you can get a Dell for 700$ with overall impressive specs and performance, you can't get something that compares, or even gets close without spending at least double or triple that.
Generally, I suggest getting a PC (a 1200$ Dell, in fact) to most people when they ask me what computer to get. Sure, you can get a 1ghz G4 eMac from apple for like 800$, but it's a piece of shit compared to a Dell that you could get for the same price.
Although, for 4000$, I think the PC you could get (pre-built, not built yourself, at home, mind you) are pretty close, and which is better is decided by your own OS preference/needs.
I say this as I'm typing into safari on my 800mhz, custom built G4 with 1.25GB RAM and it's struggling to keep up... but I'm downloading 6 torrents and have a 400mb photoshop file and a multi-page inDesign document open, not to mention countless other apps. I've considered many times getting a 2000$ Dell workstation, but it wouldn't fit my needs enough, and I can't stomach the idea of using windows at home. I feel 1000x more comfortable in OSX.
...spike
Ewwwwww, coconut...
Yeah but people are stupid.
You can. Plug the iPod in. When iTunes opens, select the iPod from the "Source" List, and then double click a track. The track will play fine.
Copying from the iPod is a different story. You'll have to download a freeware (sometimes GPL) app to do that, beacause Apple couldn't make it that easy to steal music and still pull off the iTunes Music Store.
Common sense is not so common.
Also, I'd imagine money comes into play. Especially disposable income. iPod's are NOT cheap (especially for those of us who have to work for a living). Thus, I'd imagine that if they have $$ to spend on an iPod, then dropping 4 figures for a pretty shiny new computer that matches their iPod is no big deal.
I don't respond to AC's.
I gues it was a smart move for the iPOd to work with Windows and Macs?
My sister has a Windows formatted iPod that I loaded for her (ripped all her CDs to the iPod). This weekend she came over to pick up her CDs. I ripped a couple more for her and was about to update the firmware, but I couldn't. While Macs can read the Windows formatted drive, they can't update the firmware.
What happens when people plug their iPod into their new Mac and find they can't update it?
I guess it's possibly a non-issue because you can transfer songs to the Mac and then reformat and resync. It's still an issue that I imagine the Genius Bar will be dealing with.
-- i am jack's amusing sig file
another result mentioned in this article is that 199 out of the 200 people surveyed were happy with their iPod.
:)
That's a pretty incredible result for any consumer electronics gadget.
Also, I believe no one surveyed was unhappy with the lack of Ogg Vorbis support. In fact, when asked about whether Ogg was important to them, the most common answer was "I only like Ogg at Christmas with a little nutmeg on top."
- "When you want something with all your heart, the entire universe conspires to give it to you" -Paulo Coelho
Can't really convince people to buy more stuff from you unless you've sold them one thing first...
Is this type of post obligatory or what? How many times do we have to hear this age old argument about Macs being more expensive? Really, the price difference isn't that great considering that this is a relatively long term purchase and that you will presumably be using it a lot. How long are you going to keep your computer? 2, maybe 3 years at least? Does a few extra hundred dolars really make that much difference? Also, consider the resale value. PCs aren't worth shit in the used market. They are practically disposable.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a PC user myself. But that has a lot more to do with the fact that I run Linux and don't really care about having slick, easy to use gear. I also tend to upgrade my way to the latest CPU rather than purchase whole systems. My wife, on the other hand, just bought a new iBook for $1000 and couldn't be happier. Her old Mac lasted her nearly 6 years.
-matthew
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
Maybe a HIGH-END Mac, but:
1) not a laptop- Mac laptops are pretty damn price-competitive with PC laptops
2) not a consumer-level Mac- Prices are also very competitive
3) Not a used Mac- If you want to try it without too much risk, get a used Mac on eBay. You'll likely be able to sell it for not much cheaper than you bought it for, if you don't like it (since Macs hold value much better than PC's). And it thus won't dent your precious mortgage payment.
The only way price (and I'm just talking the raw dollars) MAY be stopping you is if you build your own PC. But man, if those headaches are worth it to you, then I can't help you. The value of headache-free computing, quality components, and the nice, hassle-free interface should really be experienced to understand.
And uhhhhh... what P2P doesn't run on Mac exactly? There are tons of 3rd party P2P clients on Mac.
Does it suprise anyone that people who have $250 to blow on a top end music player are more likely to have spare money to blow on "premium" hardware?
I don't see this as heralding any sort of mass exodus to Apple hardware; just a indication that they're reaching their target market - electronics enthusiasts with large discretionary income. The bulk of the market will continue to be "value" shoppers who will pass over both the iPod and Apple in general because they're too spendy.
and you can't infringe (steal!) copyrighted material
Who says you can't infringe on the Mac? Ever heard of Poisoned or Xfactor?
With new Mac users and hopefully increased market share, perhaps we'll see a return of kids software to the Mac. One can hope, anyway. Being the father of two kids, one 3 1/2, the other just turned 2, I was looking for kids software for them this christmas for their iMac, only to find that the two major players in kids software for their age group are now both PC only - Atari bought out the great Humongous which use to be cross platform, but now with Atari at the helm all their new software is PC only. Broderbund, purveyors of Reader Rabbit and more, is now PC only too. The only choice I have is to find old software used, almost all of which is for OS 9/Classic. Is there any company left developing software for 2 to 4 year olds that run on Mac OS X?
--- What?
Apple survives on getting people to pay very high prices for cool looking products. Once Apple gets people buying iPods, it would only make sense that those same sheeps would also start buying overpriced but pretty Macs.
I've been dealing with computers since the mid 80ies. Programming, experimenting, using and depending on them. Since 3 years I've been a Linux/x86 guy only. Half a year ago I bought an 12" iBook. My first Mac. Btw, the cheapest Subnotebook available.
This is a fact: Macs are not any more expensive that equivalent PCs. On the contrary.
If I buy a Mac, I unpack it, plug it into the grid outlet, turn it on and it works. It's got zero-crap hardware in a package that had 5 people thinktanking half a year about how to design the power supply. And an equal effort put into everthing else. It's got an optional widescreen that plain and simply imidiately shuts every PC zealot up the moment he sees it in real life, no matter how expensive it may be. (And those actually *are* really expensive)
It's got a high end industry strength reference grade quality OS with tons of high end industry strength reference grade quality software preinstalled. On top of that, there is not a single multimedia related thing I can't imidiately do with absolutely zero fuss and hassle. I pop in a DVD: It works. I fire up zshell (works out of the box) scp (works out of the box) my python programm from my Linux PC onto my Mac and run it. And guess what: I works out of the box. I scp the jedit jar from my Linux PC (!) put it on my Mac Destop and run it (works... you know the drill). Guess what fuss it took to get Java running smoothly on Linux... And on top of that, Swing on a Mac finally doens't look like someone did doo-doo on my screen anymore. And that without even caring about what Java is.
By now I predict the following: Within the next 5 years we will see a substancial increase of Linux usage (critical mass nearly reached in some countries, germany, f.e.) and an increase in Mac usage. Linux serving the low-cost, full-power no-floss desk and business workhorse enviroment, mac serving the media/sleek and cool appliance market. The MS-PC market will be caught in the middle and, I wouldn't be suprised, probably be squished quite a bit aswell. I actually do expect the MS market to be marginalized by 2010. (and nealy everything I've predicted up to now has come true in one way or the other)
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
because Macs aren't as successful.
They use the same paradigm:
1) High standards
2) Design and user interface are the priority
3) Quality components
4) Style and marketing
5) Priced higher than most competitors as a result
Since both a Mac and an iPod basically seem to use the same business model, why is it that iPods are so successful now? Is it because most people simply find it easier to save up a few hundred bucks for a nice music player versus a couple thousand for a much nicer computing experience? Is it due to the "network effect" of "all my friends have pc's, so I won't get a mac" (hehe "all my friends have spyware and viruses, I guess it's normal for me to also have them")? Perhaps the iPod was able to break out of this network effect and create one of its own? What do you folks think?
That may be true, but at least apple recognise this and provide some excellent developer guidelines and documentation to boot. For example have a look at
Darwin Open Source where you can download the source and documentation for what is essentially OS X.3.6
or
X Open at the Source
Apple seem to be very good at recognising the Open Source and Free Software tools they build upon, nothing in the GPL / BSD licence says they have to go to these lengths. And lets not forget the good stuff they have donated, from Darwin itself to Rendezvous to their excellent and often overlooked Open Directory toolkits, which should be of interest to far more than the mac community.
has netcraft confirmed taht pc is dying? omg omg my precious boxen don't die on me... i'm too young to you to die!!
Dell is overpriced. They are very good if you have a few thousand machines to order, but not if you are just a home user. Build it yourself. You _can_ get a hell of a machine for the price of a 17" imac.
IntechHosting - Free domain, 2GB, PHP, £4.95/$8.95
iBooks are the single best device out there for college students and many others. Excellent form factor, easy to use, even easier to maintain, good bang for the buck. The main drawback is the Microsoft effect, which has convinced users that all computers are slow to start up, slow to wake up, hard to configure, hard to use, virus prone, etc. and all alike and therefore won't look at anything new.
If one gets over that, for whatever reason, then rational though has a chance to. The push can come from an iPod or elsewhere. e.g. I loaned one out for 2 hours to an "MS is good enough for me and I'm not changing" small business owner. At the end of the two hours, he stated that his next hardware purchase will be a Mac. But for most, iPod will be the wake up.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
.... but does not run in Linux.
My bad.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
My bet's on the latter.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
:0)
I want one. Becouse they look so neat. Moahah. But they are kindah expensive.
Sorry I don't make alot of sence, I just wanted to try to post here. Becouse it makes me feel so special xDD =)
Miss n00b becouse she wanna n_n
I've been a long-time PC user, and I'm a Windows software developer.
I've been building my own PCs since 1996, which I know makes me a relative noob on Slashdot.
I had a Creative Nomad Jukebox, and it sucked. Traded it away last Christmas, and just from looking at the features and such, I impulse-bought a 20" G4 iMac.
Ok, perhaps it wasn't a complete impulse buy - I spent probably three days doing solid research - figuring out if I could VPN in to work with it (I could), seeing how useful OpenOffice was on OS X (very), and if the GIMP was supported (thanks, Darwin project).
Back to the point, the iPod and the hype surrounding it got me to the Apple web site. The Apple web site got me into the local Apple store, and a personal test drive got me into the driver's seat of an iMac. Just like in the Apple sales seminars, I'm sure.
Almost one solid year later, and I don't regret it a bit, btw. I've become a Mac evangilist to my family.
Only because we've been trained to turn devices off when we're not using them. But why do we need this? The iPod has a pretty good idea when they're not in use: music is not playing. Leave an iPod alone for a minute without anything playing, and it turns off.
They did add the ability to "turn off" the iPod for those who insist: hold down the Play/Pause button until it turns off.
Most computers will automatically sleep or turn themselves off (via hibernation) if they're inactive for a while. In fact, the iMac G5 works similarly - the power button is on the back, because you're not expected to use it. Just leave the computer on, and let it go to sleep. Move the mouse, click the mouse, or hit a key on the keyboard and the computer wakes up.
The iPod isn't even the first non-computer device I've seen without a power switch - look at a TiVo! The original devices didn't have an "off" button - because the TV did that just fine, and the TiVo was designed for continuous operation.
Of course, this really bothered a lot of people. Later TiVos added a "sleep" mode - and the Sony-branded version even had a power button on the remote! The only thing the power button/sleep mode does, though, is turn off the audio/video out. If you turn a TiVo on, you'll still have the last 30 minutes of video in the live buffer, just like it had been on.
I speak from experience. My household has 2 3G iPods, 1 iPod photo, 1 Sony-branded standalone TiVo, and 1 DirecTiVo (integrated TiVo/DirecTV receiver).
I had the same problem with my iPod; everything showed up as grey and unplayable in iTunes. Changing the prefs for the iPod in iTunes to 'Manually manage songs and playlists' made the songs available.
xox,
Dead Nancy
Interesting link, but it doesn't actually have anything to do with Macs, the Mac OS or illegal clones thereof......
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
Sorry to say but spyware on the mac has already reared its ugly head.
Its only a matter of time before they infect my iPod too!! AIEEEE
...unfortunately no one can be told what The Mat^H^H^HGoatse is...they must experience it for themselves...
I've been a fairly enthusiastic PC user (building and upgrading my own PCs) for a little over a decade. Just over a year ago I was in the market for a digital audio player to get me across the Atlantic Ocean for vacation (I haven't found a drug yet that lets me sleep on an airplane). At that time, a 512MB player was going for about $250. The 15GB iPod was about $100 more. So I figured I might as well future-proof myself.
... no more sharing! So we waited around for a deal on PowerBooks and picked up a 12" model. His and hers, and loving it!
It was a brilliant piece of consumer electronics -- intuitive, functional, and downright slick-looking. And then they announced the iPod mini, and my wife's lust-o-meter got pegged. We took a trip to the Apple store "just to look" and ended up looking at everything else in the store as well. We didn't go home with an iPod mini, but we did go home with a 12.1" iBook. To share.
Shortly thereafter, we'd saved enough Amazon.com points to get an iPod mini on the cheap. His and hers, now. But the mini meant that the iBook would now be the sync machine of choice
So yeah, we're DINK without too many expenses. And I still maintain and use my PC. But I can guarantee that we wouldn't have even considered a Mac if it hadn't been for an iPod. Of course, that's just our personal experience, but how many more must think the same way?
One of my favorite things about today's Macs running OSX is that they have appeal for both the novice computer user, who wants everything easy, and the geek, who wants to do more advanced thing.
The GUI is there and simple for novice users, and the UNIX shell and environment are there for the more advanced people. It's truly an OS that works for everyone.
I never even looked at Macs when it was OS9 and before, because it didn't provide anything for my geeky self to dig into. But today's macs and OSX are just sweeeet.
I just wish Apple would get more competive, price-wise, with the Intel world. I know lots of people who would buy a Mac in an instant if they weren't so overpriced.
-Z
....
.....
FM Radio.
Sound recorder.
Cheaper MB/$ rate.
Long battery life.
Ogg playing capabilities.
Being Iriver branded.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Er, sparky ... if you have a PC, you *also* are learning what games don't run on YOUR platform. Halo 2 isn't there, and I haven't heard of any plans to put it there. Ratchet and Clank won't run. Star Ocean won't run (the modern one), Onimusha won't run. Viewtiful Joe won't run, Baiten Kaitos won't run, Metroid Prime won't run, Katamari Damancy won't run, etc., etc., etc. Take a look at the shelves at any game store, and you'll see how many A-list titles are console only, and how many budget titles and Deer Hunter-level games are padding out the shelves in the PC area.
I've got a Mac. I also have a PC. I *also* have an Xbox. Guess which gets used for gaming?
vi with eye-candy, that's an oxymoron.
What are you on about? vi is all about eye candy. Real programmers use ed.
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
"6 percent of iPod users have made the switch from PCs to Macs. An additional 7 percent said they are planning to dump their old PC for an Apple machine, according to the survey.""
And if you take the percentages and add real world numbers, it equates to about 10 people out of 1,000,000 who are switching. Hallelujah.
Long live LINUX gurus and Mac Jedis.
First of all, Apple can't compete on price because they don't have the volume. Second, they don't need to. Their niche is delivering quality products for people who like their computers. Third, at some point enough is enough as far as specs and performance go... for most people. Sure, your hardcore gamers are going to get the cheapest, fastest hardware they can, but I think, more and more, we are going to see people giving up on the MHz rat race and settle for a computer that is simple and easy to use and will last them for a while. Apple is on the right track, IMO.
Generally, I suggest getting a PC (a 1200$ Dell, in fact) to most people when they ask me what computer to get. Sure, you can get a 1ghz G4 eMac from apple for like 800$, but it's a piece of shit compared to a Dell that you could get for the same price.
Or $1000 for an iBook which isn't a piece of shit compared to a Dell of the same price. I think you may be doing people a diservice by recommending computers based on price/performance alone.
I say this as I'm typing into safari on my 800mhz, custom built G4 with 1.25GB RAM and it's struggling to keep up... but I'm downloading 6 torrents and have a 400mb photoshop file and a multi-page inDesign document open, not to mention countless other apps. I've considered many times getting a 2000$ Dell workstation, but it wouldn't fit my needs enough, and I can't stomach the idea of using windows at home. I feel 1000x more comfortable in OSX.
What makes you think all these people asking you what computer they should buy want to stomach using Windows at home?
-matthew
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
Well, he has a point. The Mac release of Duke Nukem Forever is lagging behind. (And as a gaming snob, I haven't seen the PC yet that can run GURPS, Spawn of Fashan, INWO or even Paranoia XP. What kind of crap games does this guy play - "I'm'a Gonna Kick Your Ass 4" or "Shooting Rendered Crap 3"?)
As for fileswappers - well, two answers. First off, part of the point is that now there's an easy and inexpensive way to buy your music ala carte. Why cry over a lack of P2P software when it's so easy to buy the music you want? (And trust me, the stuff I want that isn't on iTMS isn't on the P2P networks either.) Secondly, um... Yeah, actually, they do in fact have clients for MacOS. Trust me on this one. ...whistles tunelessly...
"Stupid! Stupid stupid stupid stupid! I touched the hot wire right there - I'm an idiot!"
That's almost enough to get me to buy a Mac.
-ScottI bet some of those users were not aware of the freely available PearPC project, which lets you run OS X inside both Windows and Linux.
o f_search=soft
Here are relevant PearPC and related projects:
http://sourceforge.net/search/?words=pearpc&type_
Simpy
If it's twice the size of a Family Feud survey, it must be enough.
If it's a song swapper, they will learn what P2P DOESN'T run on the Mac.
Uhm, no. There are many gnutella clients out there for the Mac and quite a few BT clients as well.
For you e-donkey, kazaa, soulseek fans out there, there is mlmac, which supports those protocols and bundle them all in one nice package.
A number of people I know, including myself, switched from programming in Objective-C / Cocoa to Java, mainly because Eclipse is soooo much better than apple's XCode IDE. Objective-C is a beautiful language with an object model that makes Java jealous, but Eclipse makes XCode look like a feature-limited demo text editor.
Dear, dear Steve Jobs, if you're reading this, please listen to my suggestion: dump XCode and let your XCode team contribute to Eclipse, like you did with bsd/darwin, khtml/safari, etcetera.
how's that spyware working out for you? None exists on this PC.
I wonder if I'm weird being in the other boat. I bought a Rio Karma in February, and have had no problems with the device. However, I just bought a powerbook- and now I use it as my primary computer. The problem is that synching with the Karma is a bitch. The big problem for me with switching to an iPod is that the iPod doesn't play OGG, which I've been ripping my songs in for the past year now. It's a house of cards, man.
- Thomas;
___ This sig is in boldface to emphasize its importance!
>I wish the linked story had more details; it's not clear from the
>results mentioned whether there's a strong causal relationship
>here.
Statistics (Results) show strong correlations, not causation, nicht wahr?
Comparing it to Windows will be a moot point, since El Dorado is going to have a 40% larger code base than XP.
I wish I could afford an iPod so I could wish I could afford a Mac.
The US Army: promoting democracy through unquestioned obedience
If it's a gamer, they will learn what games DON'T run on a Mac, versus what does.
Common knowledge. Nothing new here. Move along.
If it's a song swapper, they will learn what P2P DOESN'T run on the Mac.
REAL song swappers use Usenet. You should see the song swapping, application pirating, news client my wife uses on her Mac. Best of all, she is under the radar as far as the RIAA is concerned. But if you are too clueless to figure out how to use Usenet, there are still P2P clients for the Mac.
Granted, they can shell out more money for the emulation software.
Unnecessary.
I have yet to get a Mac, and the only reason why I want one is for web development testing, to make sure it works for that 3-5% market share of Safari users using a browser that might still have bugs or features not yet implemented.
One word: Firefox
The main thing stopping me from getting a Mac... Price.
Go to your local Mac store and check out the iBooks.
-matthew
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
Are you sure P2P doesn't work on the mac? Or what about games?
Normally I would find this story odd, except after I read it, I realized I too was one of those people. =) (Well okay, being a *NIX junkie helps too. =))
itunes is available on win32
You are confusing apps which run in Windows with apps that are built with the Win32 API's. In fact, Win32 is not necessary. iTunes for Windows is very much a Carbon app, not a Win32 one.
You can do it from the command line too.
Mod point free since 2001
I have been an Intel/AMD user for long time. I have built, for myself and at work, dozens of PCs. I use M$ crappy OS and good-old linux ( also Be when it was around). But, my next machine will be a G5 or new Apple notebook. I am fed-up with M$ crap. Whats keeping me from doing this now? - damn Apple machines are expensive. What I want will set me back $3k-$4k. And I am not rich. SO, I wait.
When I decided to buy an iPod last summer, Windoze support wasn't out yet. Despite the fact that I've coded under DOS and Windows since the 2.11 days (and Linux for about a decade) and even worked as a programmer - briefly- for the "evil empire", I was so impressed with how easily everything in the Mac world interconnected I decided to investigate that curious creature called "Powerbook".
You know where this is headed...I'm typing this on a 17" Powerbook in Starbucks, connected via WiFi. I've booted my pc about 6 times in the last year, and 2 of those were from SLAX.
I've sunk about $10k into Mac/Apple hardware and software, and I couldn't be happier. I have NO plans of ever going back.
So yes, here's one case of a techie who really did switch!
Nothing is inexplicable; only unexplained -Tom Baker, Doctor Who
I'd switch back to a Mac in a heartbeat if:
1. It ran tax software for an LLC (ironic that the leading Windows tax software was originally Mac-only and now has no business version).
2. It ran Visio. Not a work-alike. Visio.
3. It ran Project.
4. Apple were a little less arrogant.
Okay, I'd gladly live with 4 if 1-3 were in the bag.
C'mon, the apple icons on this page alone make me want to switch!!
I want to buy cool too. Its high school all over again.
Cheers,
Adolfo
There are more people that switch to PC's from Apple due to work environment than there are PC users that switch to Apple because of the Ipod.
Most Apple users, out of college, get jobs and end up buying a PC because that's what they have at work. Or that's what their clients use.
I deal with it everyday. My friends come to me asking questions about getting a PC, ditching their Apple.
They resist... they resist for awhile. But the struggle is there.
I've been an Apple fan sine 1979, I bought my first Apple ][+. Cost me $1707 from a mail order shop in Portland, OR. I bought a 16k memory card as soon as I could afford it. The school district used to call me to get help with their computers.
-- No sig for you!
Why is sales up for Apple because of iPod PC -> Mac switchers. It is rather simple, Person has a PC. They buy an iPod. To Buy the iPod they may walk into an Apple Store or an Apple Reseller. While in the store they see the other produducts out there. A percentage of them like the product line and buys a Mac the next time they want to upgrade.
Most people when upgrading there PC they don't even think about going to Mac. I wasn't when I was thinking about getting a new Notbook a couple of years ago. Then while me and my friends were at the mall they wanted to rent a Tux and I didn't so while they were at the Tux store I went next door to the Apple Store and looked at what they had to offer then I decided I like what I saw. Then doing some more reshearch and cost comparison I decided to get the Powerbook because it was the best deal for what I wanted.
So the popularity of the iPod just basicly reminds people when they need a New PC that Macs are a possible solution.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I am a Graphic Artist and a huge gamer. I work on a mac daily and then go home and play games on my PC. I personally like the interface and smoothness of the mac in comparison, but my big problem here are the GAMES!!! I believe Apple missed a HUGE opportunity in shunning the game market. If I could play the same games on my mac as on my PC I would definately have a MAC at home, but thats not the case. Apple left gamers lying in the mud only to be rescued by one Bill Gates and MS. IMHO there would be a much less of a divide between MAC/PCs if MACS were more gamer friendy... Just imagine if Apple bought Bungi, and Halo was released for the MAC first, I think that would have been more significant than the iPod in bringing poeple to the MAC side. So some1 please explain to me, because I fail to understand apple's stance on not making gaming a significant capability of Macs..
|/usr/games/fortune
file sharing
game, specifically the only one your girlfriend/mother/mother in law probably cares about.
more games
games
Of course, this is kind of silly, because if you're worried about saving money you're not playing games on a PC or a Mac. "Let's see, I can buy a whole Playstation 2 with a couple of nice games for $200, or I can buy a new video card for for $200 so I can play Doom 3". PC's are excellent gaming platforms, but they are nowhere near as cost effective as any of the console systems. The games, especially when new, cost about the same (if the PC version isn't a little more expensive). It's almost cheaper to have one each of the "big three" consoles than try to keep PC hardware up to spec for playing the newest video games over any given 5 year span. PC's are also nice, open systems, so for online gaming you get access to the wide world of cheaters, where console games at least have some semblance of sofware control. PC games will look nicer, and probably be a little more of a rich experience, but as far as cost-effective, a PC is really far down.
The Windows PC can't do this, at least without buying expensive software. GarageBand comes with a new Mac, and this is also bundled into a new Mac. The ability to painlessly sync my phone and my computer's contact list is pretty valuable. And I can run most other software too, because I've got X11.
Now, admittedly there are lots of things you can't get to work on a Mac. this isn't available, neither is this, or this, or this. As a side effect, neither this nor this is available on the Mac. So, ya know, you're right, there's a lot of stuff that is much harder to do on my Mac than on my Windows PC, like being a Spambot and reporting my personal information to advertisers.
Songs are memories. I refuse to let a corporation control my memories. It's a shame that the corporations are still forcing us to buy environmentally harmful atoms just to listen to DRM-free music.
OS X *almost* gets it ...
Almost everything in OSX is really nice, but why the F**K did they take all the applications out of the apple menu and stuff them into that weird panel buried in the "go" menu in the finder? Once you know it's there I guess it's alright, but I just don't understand what apple was thinking when they got rid of the nice old apple menu (that microsoft freaking copied from them too, that's gotta say SOMETHING) and made it harder to find things..
Is there actually a Good Reason for them to have done this? Or did they just decide to change things for the sake of changing things and in this case they fucked up a good feature? I'm not trying to troll or anything, honest, I'd just really like to know why they did that.
And is there any way to fix it?
ìì!
My girlfriend is a reverse convert. After growing up on Macs, then owning an iMac and an iBook, she became so frustrated with them that she asked me to put together a PC for her. Since then she's upgraded to a Dell 3Ghz laptop and never looked back... I think the Mac to PC converts are rare, however, because most people are attracted to the Old Navy wearing, Jetta-driving hipsters that sport Macs on TV...
Eclipse rocks. I even think it is comparable to Code Warrior's IDE and even Visual Studio. The plugin support is phenomonal. This is where Apple needs to focus, adding XCode plugin to Eclipse.
"The main thing stopping me from getting a Mac... Price."
Thank [insert deity here] you're cheap.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
-You can certainly use file sharing software on a MAC so being able to "steal" is definately a possibility.
-Spyware none here... Thanks LavaSoft
-Games?? Games, you say? Are you talking about the 11 billion dollar industry of video games?? Because if you are, then you surely cannot deny the impact this industry has had on all hardware sales.
Say Apple meets it's best estimate of 4 million iPods this quarter. 15 million PCs are sold each quarter - so 7% of iPod users switching is right at 3.5% - whatta you know, Apple's marketshare is right about 3.5% (Quarterly)
Apple's marketshare is increasing [IMHO] because:
- Stores
- Clean stores
- More stores
- No handwritten signs, no gimmicky sales
- People are honestly seeking alternatives to Microsoft
- Linuxheads are finding that the MacOS is just as powerful
- Community/Grassroots support
- Artist bandwagoning / idol worship
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
Nobody buys a mac becausethey own an iPod. The iPod simply introduces people to the Apple brand (and has done much to change the perception of Apple). It gets people into Apple stores and reseller stores to see and test other Apple products and people like the way iTunes works - "It just works" so they figure they will like the way Macs work.
And, BTW, even though I use Linux at home, it's still not close to a replacement for a Mac. It is getting crufted up enough to be a solid replacement for a Wintel PC, though. But getting back to the comment...
Apple for years has been targeting the audience of simple function that just works, even if it does cost a bit more. The fact that the iPod introduces users to this concept, who then wonder why they have to screw around with Windows is just an extension of this model. In fact, if Apple wanted to make a killing, they'd market an easy to setup and use home media center - combo Mac, PVR, stereo, and display with their famed ease of setup and use. I'd buy one of those.
That is all.
I bought an iPod in late July, I've been surrounded by Macs @ work. So, when I bought my PowerBook in late October I'd say it's part the iPod and part the Mac exposure at work. Regardless, I'm happy I went with the Mac (I even stood in line for opening day at the local Apple store that weekend) and I do find myself using my Linux desktop far less. Who knows, maybe I'll use my desktop more often after the coolness of the new laptop wears off.
So... if I sign up for a free iPod through your sig, when are you going to give me a link to sign up for a free iMac?
I don't moderate anymore. Karma penalty for 90% fair mods? Can I mod that unfair?
I guess after you've shelled out $250 to $400 for an MP3 PLAYER a Macintosh seems like an absolute bargain!
Perhaps I could also try to market a Mac Hammer TM for $500.00 to these folks.
Wait, that's been done.
As the subject stated, have you tried Gentoo Linux? In my opinion it has by far the best community of users offering their support than any other distro I've used. The forums, newsgroups, and IRC support is astounding. In addition, Gentoo offers some of the most organized and detailed documentation all formatted in beautiful, easy to read, xml/css pages. I highly recommend you check it out.
Yeah, that P2P sure doesn't run on Mac! Between those, you can connect _really well_ to limewire networks (Next time you are on a Mac, try Acquisition. It's an absolute dream), just fine to .torrents, and perfectly well to eDonkey, OpenNap and Kazaa networks. Boy, I sure wish I could use P2P on my Mac. Yeah, I never download anything...
The iPod has been the best way to get people to visit an Apple Store. Not just PC users, but Apple users too. All of those iPods didn't get sold by Amazon. People who wanted to see what the buzz was about went to an Apple Store to try one. Most other retailers don't have them out for demo, they just have them in the boxes. Even once the purchase is made the iPod is a de-facto rationale for going into the Apple Store when the owner is shopping at the mall where the Apple Store is located. Accessories, software, nerds! They have it all.
When they get there the might see a very capable laptop with wifi and cd burner for a grand. Or they see a G5 tower that kicks butt on their bottom-feeder Dell box. Even if they don't buy, Apple got into their heads. One of the prime directives of retail is that the first sale is only worthwhile if it leads to repeat business. That is the core of every successful retail operation. If you only sell and iPod and the buyer goes away, you will be going away very soon too.
Real programmers use cat.
--
i'm not trolling... and i mean the average citizen that mostly uses their computer for email/web/IM and maybe to sometimes type up a text document. the person that doesn't buy (or steal) applications beyond what comes on the machine...... do you think they really care what OS they run? you hear a lot of people say they can not really afford to switch because they own all this Windows only software so buying a Mac is the cost of the hardware plus thousands and thousands in software replacement.
if somebody is just using their machine for simple tasks, they can switch when they buy a new machine. i know people that don't even really transfer files when they upgrade hardware. they only care about emails and those are on their AOL account. the less somebody really uses a computer, the friendlier and easier a Mac is going to seem.
the same argument can be used to support the valu-computers with Linux that wallmart sells. if it has a web browser and works.... why not! that's all most people really do. when i say most, i mean people that do not use a computer at work, and do not use it as a tool to do things they can do analog.
i don't understand the popularity of iTunes and iPod. i listen to a LOT of mixed CDs, and the HUGE gaps between tracks in both iPod and iTunes are extremely noticeable and unacceptable. is there some secret way around this, or are these people just ignorant/not care?
No man, I get you! I think the thing with Apple is that they use the best stuff, which, as you pointed out, is overkill for most people, and always more expensive because the components are new.
I wonder how much a PC would cost if you used dual 64 bit chips from AMD, top of the line Nvidia cards, etc. I wonder if they would come out at about the same price as the dual G5 or not...
Oh, and why was I modded "Offtopic" on that? I was just responding to you...
Oh well.
how much do 14'-17' computers weigh? more than 8 lbs i bet :)
"You get all the fun of sitting still, being quiet, writing down numbers, paying attention...science has it all."
Because DVDs have css DRM. Do you also ignore VHS with their macrovision (copyright control, not DRM, but the same thing?)
Here's the part where you're ignorant and stupid.
iTunes DOESN'T have DRM.
iTunes Music Store does, but not iTunes.
So the music you rip is DRM free. All the mp3 files are plain mp3 files. All the wavs, aacs, and ale files are unencumbered.
Why aren't you using iTunes then?
GPL Deconstructed
Since when has elegance and 'sleekness' been bad?
Why do you even assume it's about image and self esteem or feeling better about yourself?
An iPod is undeniably sleek and elegant when compared to everything that came before it, and many that came after it.
The same with Apple computers.
There are TECHNICAL reasons why elegance is a worthwhile attribute for any device, not just mp3 players or computers. Sleekness requires definition, but elegance has it's own context:
Gracefulness.
You can also define things by the inverse, in this case elegance:
Clumsiness.
So if a computer is graceful and not clumsy, I think anyone would agree that it is better than a computer that is clumsy and not graceful.
GPL Deconstructed
remains at 2% worldwide. How have they verified these numbers? It is not showing up in any computer industry marketshare studies.
ignorance is bliss. googlefiberatx.com
If it's a song swapper, they will learn what P2P DOESN'T run on the Mac.
;=) My home directory can't protect me from hurricanes.
BT, emule, DC, Gnutella and FastTrack all have mac clients. What am I missing out on?
Granted, they can shell out more money for the emulation software.
Huh? MacMame is free, and AFAIK, Richard Bannister's stuff (nice ports of console emulators) are all free and all you have to pay for is a plugin with extra stuff.
Yes, macs are very much lacking in the games department, but since you're mentioning price, I'd like to point out that you can get a ps2/gc or an xbox for the price of a decent graphics card.
House or a Mac.... hmmmm I chose the house.
Yes, but Steve Jobs' RDF can!
Just imagine if Apple bought Bungi, and Halo was released for the MAC first,
I agree with your point, for the most part, but Bungie is just one company and buying it would not have made a difference for all the other games not ported. Maybe you should be asking, what if MS, did not abuse their illegal monopoly by buying all the good mac developers up, and killing their products. That said, there have been a number of very good games over the years that never made it to the PC. It's just that since most people use PCs they have never heard of them. Bungie made Marathon 2, the predecessor to Halo which was much further ahead of the curve than Halo is. In fact it was by far the best FPS of it's time with features that did not reach PC games for years. I also think that Apple could do more for game developers and gamers. Building a really nice Playstation 3 emulator (with the help of Sony) into OSX 10.5 would probably do a lot to counter the lack of games for OSX. I'm not a big gamer, and mainly use my machine for work and hobbies, but I play the occasional game. I've never had a problem finding something good to play. Who knows, I imagine Apple has a pretty good handle on the numbers. Perhaps it would not make as big a difference as either of us think.
Do you honestly think that a company the size of Apple would - if they could reduce the cost to ship more units and therefore make money ?
For all their supposed "hippy" leanings they are a company to make more money to appease shareholders.
The bottom line is that they equalise everything to get the most from their product.
...they weren't so overpriced...
The initial price of a computer is only a fraction of its true cost. This is especially true if your time is valuable. For portables the price difference between an iBook and a similarly equipped Wintel system is actually in Apple's favor, especially if you figure in the expense in time and money to get the Wintel system reasonably secure against all the malware it is susceptible to. This is an ongoing effort not needed for the iBook.
All theory is gray
Because the owner of one realizes that the producer of object produces other objects.
This is totally NOT different than people switching from Mac to Sony because they fell in love with their Sony DVD player. It's the same logic!
If you bought a shirt from Macy's and were satisfied, why would it be an odd correlation if you went to Macy's to buy jewelry or some barware?
GPL Deconstructed
Similarly, I grew up with CDs, and I am not willing to make the DRM bargain with music.
Here at my work, it took only one IT member to purchase a 17" powerbook to convert nearly the entire department. Now there are a slew of iBooks & PowerBooks running amok in IT.
I too just picked one up a couple months back. Purchased the 15" powerbook, and I must say, it's a beautiful machine. Unix never looked so sweet.
has Sun been marketing their computers at the home and business user? how many Sun computer stories do you read on Slashdot? how many Mac stories? case closed.
Meh.
not a laptop- Mac laptops are pretty damn price-competitive with PC laptops
r od=eMachines_T2862
Assuming you don't care about screen resolution. I can get a Thinkpad with 1400x1150 for the price of an iBook with 1024x768. I realise some people consider high resolution on a laptop irrelevant, but if you're playing fair you have to count things like this.
not a consumer-level Mac- Prices are also very competitive
The entry level eMac goes for $800, with a mediocre 17" display, mediocre video, and an inconvenient design. I was able to go to HP's website and come up with a system with a better video card and a good 15" flat panel display for less than the eMac... a comparable eMachines all-in-one is significantly less.
The iMac is priced like a decent gamer PC. It's beautiful, slick, elegant, efficient... but it's not really in the consumer price range.
Not a used Mac
Even a first generation iMac is over $100, a Blue-and-White Powermac is more like $200. People are advertising, and getting, several hundred dollars for reasonably equipped (for Panther) AGP G4s. A cheap used Mac that can run OS/X well requires getting a bargain on something like a Beige or B&W G3 and then spending a lot of time and money on upgrades... to the point where you're in new-PC territory again. AND you're getting the headaches of a build-your-own.
E-Machines: http://www.emachines.com/products/products.html?p
$400, 2.66 GHz Celeron, 256M RAM, 40G hard drive, no monitor. A 17" Trinitron from someone like CTX will set you back $100-$200.
For $400 you're going to get an older G4 AGP, maybe around 500 MHz, or an eMac (if you can stand the screen) around 700 MHz. If you want a comparable used PC, maybe 800-900 MHz, you're looking at $150 or less.
Macs hold value much better than PC's
Indeed. I'm not saying the higher price isn't justified, but claiming that price isn't an issue is silly. If anything, it's at the high end that Macs become price-competitive with PCs, because all Macs, even the iMac, are high-end products.
The eMac is really the closest thing they have to a low-end Mac, and it's not exactly cheap.
There are a lot of great things about the Mac, but iSync isn't one of them -- at least not if you want to sync with a Palm (it doesn't support syncing important stuff like catagories). If you want to cite iSync, wait till Tiger comes out.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
can afford to get Ipods and Macs. I looked into getting an Ipod but found that for the same high price I could get a different brand of MP3 player with a ton of more features. But, regardless, my wife would kill me if I bought a "toy" that expensive, whether it be Ipod or any of the others. Having to support a family, pay mortgage, loans, credit cards, etc.. doesn't allow me to buy fun things.
Meh.
I was completely agreeing with you until I got to the last paragraph. Macs, at least the white ones, are not overpriced. In fact, I comparison shopped for a thin-and-light and ended up buying a 12" iBook because it was the best value, even without factoring in OS X. And considering the fact that to truly equate a PC with an iMac you'd have to price out the CPU plus the 17" or 20" widescreen LCD, iMac G5s are probably a better value too.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Hey, anonymous asshole, I've been using ALL computers since 1982, including having built a few PC's, and it's always been a pain in the ass, so why don't you sit your guaranteed-to-be-more-noob-than-me ass down?
I am constantly amazed by this comment about "If only Macs were cheaper".
Why? People do care about price.
Apple simply doesn't make a machine that can sell into the entry-level market. When Joe User can get a mini-tower PC with a flat panel for less than an eMac, he isn't even going to look at an iMac.
And Joe already has a PC, so upgrading to a desktop Mac is even less attractive, because he's already got a monitor he's happy with: it's almost certainly a better one than the eMac's (which is why the eMac doesn't interest him).
If Apple took the entry level eMac, stripped out the CRT, and stuck the rest in a pretty slab like the NeXTstation... and sold it for $600 (about the price of a good 17" CRT below the eMac) then they'd have something that Joe User could replace their PC with that only seems a little bit overpriced.
And now that Joe's looking at Macs, that iMac looks pretty damned cool.
And Apple would win, because they'd still get decent margins from the G4 "iSwitch" slab: it's still a good 50% more expensive than a comparable desktop PC.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
What? Not all LiIons are made the same and you are a fool if you think every battery of the same composition has the same bleed rate and memory. A blanket 20% is also crap as memory is affected less by properly draining and charging them. Lithium Ion is the most popular battery because it's the most memory resistant without breaking the bank.
Grandparent isn't a liar. He got a crappy battery, end of story.
LilMikey.com... I'll stop doing it when you sto
I HATED MACS with a passion - OS7/8/9 were such complete piles of garbage. Give me a PC thanks...
:)
But fast forward quite a few years after that and I bought an ipod to use on the (long) train trip to/from work. It was great. That seemed to get me over the apple brand hurdle and as it was so well made it got me curious.
A few months later the time had come to buy a laptop. I looked at the PC's and they weren't bad - for kicks I looked at the powerbook and it looked very nice thank you. I deliberated for a couple of months over it....then bought a old G4 tower from ebay as a test to see if I liked OS X or not....
Well, I did. I'm a Unix/network admin at my Mon-Fri job and the unix underneath of OS X was great. Installed fink and starting running my unix progs, it was great. I was hooked.
In addition I do wedding photography on weekends, and used iDVD to great success with a wedding DVD. That clinched it. I sold the G4 on ebay (and bizarrely made money on it) and bought a 1.5ghz 15" powerbook with all the fruit including 2gb ram. It did cost a lot but it's probably the best machine I've used, simply trouble free.
Apple hadn't finished with my finances yet. When those airport express units came out i thought that would be very nice and bought 2 to wire my whole house up and stream music to my main hi-fi. excellent.
Then I decided a I needed a nice fat display to edit my wedding photos on, so I bought a 23" cinema display for home, and a wireless kb/mouse to make my laptop a "desktop" at home. It's the best display I've ever used. As it was a lot of money I did look around at different brands but the apple got the nod although it was noticeably more expensive, the quality of it is staggering.
Now my wife wants her own laptop after using mine a bit at night, or an iMac G5. And I want to get a dual G5 2.5ghz as one of the cameras I use for weddings generates 80mb files which does take a little while to load on the powerbook
So you can see from an ipod sale apple got a fair bit of money out of me. My wife being a school teacher we bought it all on education pricing but it was still a lot of money.
You folks think that's funny... when I got my first linux machine in '99, I used ed because it was the simplest editor I had. A year later I discovered emacs, and it wasn't until very recently that someone pointed out pico/nano to me. And vi still gives me the shivers :D
--Quentin
iTunes doesn't have DRM.
There is no DRM bargain.
You pop in a CD and it rips to unencumbered WAV, AAC, ALE, or MP3 encoded files.
NO DRM.
GPL Deconstructed
Those are some big expectations...
Do you honestly expect a PC user to be able to use two hands at one time?
I got an ipod in July last year. Had been enjoying it, using iTunes on a Toshiba laptop happily, but in the back of my mind entertained the thought of investigating Macs. OS9 and less weren't even an option, but the BSD basis and command line got my attention. I still had ignored the first couple of releases of OSX as they had coverage of being slow as a wet week.
In the end the decision was forced upon me. My laptop HD failed about 3 days before I was heading overseas for 3 weeks. Did some quick research and ended up getting a PowerBook and it has been great.
I hate going back to XP now, I only do it for certain work applications now. Happily connecting to linux servers regularly. Things do just work so much more smoothly and are more reliable. I look after 4 PC laptops in our small business, and windows wireless is so flaky under XPSP2. I have no troubles.
Microsoft Office 2004 on Mac is much better than 2003 on PCs, and interoperates with no problems. And its great being able to open a shell and rsync to backup the important stuff on the servers. I'm starting to find a good range of open source software to use as well. iSync is great as I can sync iCal and Addressbook to my Palm, K700i phone and ipod all at once. Only real downsides I have is that there is no Visio or Project available (otherwise I'd be able to move the rest of our work laptops to Macs as well, Virtual PC is OK but not suitable for my other users) or there is no decent New Zealand mapping software that runs natively. Hopefully these will be remedied over time though one means or other.
Well, you're never going to get a stock 2-button mouse from Apple. The CTRL key does the same thing as a right click 99% of the time. If you absolutely need a multi-button mouse, simply buy one. Pretty much any multi-button mouse is going to work right off the bat.
Pooty tweet
do you come with an "apple zealot inside"(tm) sticker? ;)
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
How many thousands of /. posts have there been about people who still use Windows because it's the only "game" OS? Now when there's some marginal number of people who bought a Mac because they have an ipod, people are all "OMG SO NOT TRUE!11". What's the deal, man?
When you look at the state of the world, how can you not become a radical, liberal anarchist?
My mom has a Dell Inspiron with Windows XP that is giving her fits (wireless doesn't work, some software does not install, etc). She also has a 3rd generation iPod. She is now thinking about switching to a Mac when she gets her next laptop (14" iBook or maybe 15" Powerbook if she thinks it is worth it). Nothing is definite right now.
Currently, her son (me) uses a G3 800MHz iBook and her son-in-law uses a G4 Powerbook (aluminum I believe).
Last night mom could not get the pictures she had transfered from her digital camera to her iPod (Belkin card reader I think). Being that she is here for Thanksgiving she brought her iPod with her. She gave it to me, with dock, I plugged it in and took the pictures off of it in under 2 minutes.
"Wow, that is so easy... I knew it would be that way."
Pictures have been on the iPod since July....
Not bad for a single woman born in 1951 eh?
It's clean, simple
xCode is quite a good IDE and getting better but it's anything but clean and simple.
Why have build Styles *and* Targets?? ?!??
Why do you have to set your App's 'version' in 2 different places?
Clicking to create breakpoints while compiling sometimes causes a compiler error.
You have to clean targets when you change build style because the IDE doesn't do it for you.
An errors pane that doesn't get cleaned when a rebuild starts, so you have to wait till the end of the build to see which errors are new (even then sometimes the old errors stay in there).
The type-ahead code-completion is painfully slow. I've had to turn both that and the indexing off to work with it.
When I press 'next file' and 'previous file' I get all kinds of random files from the project. I'm not sure what those are supposed to do.
There are some neat ideas in xCode (and coming up in 2.0) and it's being improved, but it feels like 2 completely different applications were thrown together and then they tried to clear up the mess, even as they are adding heaps of features with every release. There are quite a few unresolved bugs as well (see above).
Any application with 14 menus in the menubar (count em!) can't be called clean and simple in my opinion...
As a former NeXT programmer/admin, I really hated to go back to Windows. NeXTSTEP was just so seamless and, well, pretty. I've eaven tried multiple distros of Linux, trying to get back to the "good ol days". Today, for the money and the apps I use, Windows is still the easiest.
But then I was given an iPod (4G 20GB). Just holding it makes me want to go "ahhhhh". The ease of use and functionality made me realize that Windows is just one big compromise. XP is much better than older versions, but it's just not the same.
My current laptop is a 5-year-old IBM ThinkPad. It has served me well. My next laptop will be a powerbook. I really like the ahhhhhhhhhh...
jdw
I resent that.
Don't forget the cool system-wide features provided by the NeXT-derived cocoa framework.
Did you know that you can run ANY text control in the system through a spell-checker that shares a common user dictionary? That means that ALL of your apps learn how to spell ALL of your custom words at once.
ColorSync? QuickTime? These are awesome toolkits that make writing apps easy and using them even easier.
What about the entire graphics system running 'display postscript' on top of an OpenGL subsystem? Do you realize the implications of this for Apple when 200dpi LCD displays become available? It will be like moving from regular broadcast to HDTV, you won't even know you're looking at an array of pixels. Microsoft is several years behind Apple on this front.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
You clearly overlooked Half-Life 2, WarCraft 3, DOOM 3, World Of Warcraft, EverQuest 2, etc. Not to mention that games that are on PC & Console are often better on PC because they often have more RAM/Vid Card Power/Hard Drives. Consoles are good for console games, but not every game is good on a console.
-]Phreak Out[-
No, you must understand that the purchase price of a computer is all that matters when determining the value of that computer! Damnit ... you ... you ... fanboi. Now there.
...
In Soviet Russia or something
That was probably one of the most useless posts I've ever read. Aesthetic performance of any given product is completely subjective where actual performance of said product is more than likely objective. In other words: would you rather have a player that only held 1 MB worth of data that is completely "cool" over another player that was "ugly" and could hold twice or three times as much? Even if you would, could you justify spending 3x more just for the aesthetics? I think you could; based on your post. Since we're on Slashdot I can say this: there is the technical way of looking at things and the subjective. Most of the time those concepts try to meet in the middle but I can't see how they can in this case. Functional is functional and you pay for the rest. That's not a concept generally accepted on Slashdot; or obviously by yourself.
I still can't get the screen shots of Castle Wolfenstein for the Apple IIe out of my head.
Three of my friends at college have made the switch to OSX over this past summer. One of them told me that the iPod was his "gateway drug" to becoming a Mac user. The other two quickly agreed that they became converts in a similar way. One saw an OSX demo in the Apple section of a Comp USA while buying an iPod and the other was introduced to Macs when asking a friend about his Mac and iPod before buying one.
Seeing as none of them are particuarly computer literate, I've helped a few of them with various applications. As a result I have become a proponent of Macs for technically-challeneged people. They are in a technological bliss I have never seen with the average casual user.
Instead of continuing the Linux crusade, I suggest techies push OSX on people. It will be an easier switch and will eventually help everyones anti-Microsoft cause. In the end it will even help Linux because software will be built with Windows/Unix cross platformity in mind.
http://brandonbloom.name
I've heard this argument scores of times and it still doesn't make any sense. The crowd that buys the $300 cheapo PCs is not one that any computer company truly wants as customers. They will not likely be repeat customers because they will always go for the best apparent deal. One year they're buying a Dell and the next they're buying an HP at Wal*Mart.
They're also a crowd that isn't likely to buy any peripheral services like extended coverage contracts and the like because they're going for the smallest possible hit to their check book. Instead of investing in something that will save them money in the long term they're trying to save over the short term.
This cheapskate crowd also isn't likely to really do much for the Mac software market. Skimping on their computer means they will do what they can to skimp on their software as well. Someone buying an "iSlab" isn't necessarily adding to Roxio, Intuit, or the Omni Group's pool of potential buyers.
So in the end you've got a bunch of people buying Macs that don't make Apple much money, don't necessarily give them repeat sales, cannabalize existing products, and do nothing for the Mac software market. The cheapskate Mac isn't really a good idea when you work it through realistically.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Give it to me if you don't want it. Comment this and I'll give you my address.
+++ATH0
Where did you read in my post that I was talking about aesthetic performance, coolness?
You read what you wanted to disagree with. I never said anything about 'aesthetic performance' or sacrificing 'functionality' for 'aesthetic performance'.
My post was about how purely, rawly, supremely functional the iPod is compared to any other mp3 player out there. If functionality was measured by the ability to play music, store music, reach music, and access music, then the iPod and iTunes are unbeatable, and I do believe the market knows this.
The iPod is functional, and that is why there is a price premium. It sacrifices nothing to the cause of functionality; thus the scrollwheel, the uncluttered interface, the effortless interface, the easy interface.
But I'm biased because I own an iPod. Perhaps other MP3 players have reached the same level of competence as the iPod?
GPL Deconstructed
The crowd that buys the $300 cheapo PCs is not one that any computer company truly wants as customers. They will not likely be repeat customers because they will always go for the best apparent deal.
Maybe, though a hell of a lot of them are just young and in high school or college and $300 is a lot of money for them now... but if you can get them buying Macs now they'll keep buying them when they can afford to drop a grand on a computer.
But, I don't see what your point is: I didn't suggest Apple sell a Mac to compete with the $300 PC. The price I suggested was, in fact, precisely twice that: $600 is a pretty mainstream price for a PC if you're not going for a hot gaming box.
For college kids scraping pennies together there's Apple credit accounts that work like a credit card. With these you can make minimum payments for as long as you don't have money and then pay down the principal when you do have it. Minimum payments on a ~$1500 computer aren't going to be too ridiculous, if you can save up $300 over a couiple of months you can easily make such payments. These coupled with educational discounts ends up being a decent enough deal if you can't afford a system outright. For high school students there are fewer options they can actualize independently but that's why it pays to keep a good relationship with your parents/family.
Even at $600 an "iSlab" is not a very profitable idea for Apple. The target audience for such a system would be...cheapskates, people wanted an "intro" Mac, and offices wanting a bunch of one-off desktops.
For offices an all-in-one iMac or eMac would be a better deal than a headless system. AppleCare covers the machine and monitor for up to three years, that's essentially an upgrade cycle for many offices. With an AIO systems there's less for the IT people to worry about. There's far fewer connectors to get stressed from squeezing the system into odd places and the systems are much easier in general to position in the first place. The G5 iMacs take up almost no space at all and don't weigh very much and will easily last in an office environment for a number of years.
For the people wanting an intro Mac a headless system is going to be far more hassle than its worth at a $600 price point. The eMac's monitor easily rivals the "free" 17" CRTs that come with some Dell and HP systems after rebates and such. The LCD of the iMacs is really nice and competes well with any third party displays you'd probably hook up to an "iSlab". If you've got a monitor that "you can just use" and want an eMac there's very likely some schools or other such places that would love a free monitor that you can write off on your taxes.
There might be a market for a $600 "iSlab" but it isn't necessarily one worth tackling for Apple. If people buy these and no other Mac software it doesn't entice anyone to make more Mac software. If people want a cheaper system to try out OSX there's a really large used/refurbished Mac market in existance. With a moderate amount of effort you could find a nice Mac for $600 or less that would run OSX nicely (which itself can bre resold to go towards a new Mac).
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
You must be below 30. One day you will realize that being able to read stuff on a 10" screen is not forever. Of course then you will probably get a backache from lagging 8lbs laptops. Oh well, the progress keeps moving.
not the GREATEST tech, but it could be the latest. examples might be forthcoming P3M desktop machines - cheap, aimed at the low TCO corporate market, but new technology. latest does not equal most expensive.
...it's more that once you've used your ipod, you've also started using iTunes, which looks like a Mac app. you start admiring the interface and thinking "hell, this is nice. pretty too. wonder what an OS like this would be like? is all i really do a bit of internet, a bit of MS office? i could shift to a mac without too much mither. and i'd get cool points too...hmmm"
I think someone needs a hug.
It's mandatory to wash your hands before returning to the land of Dairy Queen.
Let's close that $300-computer red-herring of yours first:
For college kids scraping pennies together there's Apple credit accounts that work like a credit card.
The target audience for such a system would be...cheapskates
if you can save up $300 over a couiple of months...
*sigh*
For a lot of students, a hundred bucks extra a semester means they can afford current textbooks. They're eating rice and beans because cup-a-ramen is too expensive. If a computer was still a luxury rather than a necessity, as it was when I was at college, they wouldn't have one at all. They're not "cheapskates". I'd go on, but I'm afraid I'd start getting sarcastic about your idea of the economic realities for most high school and college students.
Back to the $600 computer that I was actualy talking about.
For offices an all-in-one iMac or eMac would be a better deal than a headless system.
The new iMac, maybe, but it's way over our per-desk hardware budget and getting a machine that's not running Windows into the office is hard enough as it is. The eMac? Give me a break: we've pulled monitors off people's desks that were better than the one in the eMac because people were complaining about their quality.
The eMac's monitor easily rivals the "free" 17" CRTs that come with some Dell and HP systems after rebates and such.
There are a lot of lousy 17" monitors out there, but most of the ones I've seen, including cheap ones, are better than the eMac's. The cheap 17" on my desk right now is why I don't have an eMac right now because I couldn't bring myself to spend $500 on a *used* eMac and risk straining my aging eyes any further.
If people buy these and no other Mac software it doesn't entice anyone to make more Mac software.
OK, I could maybe see this reasoning for your $300 fantasy computer, but $600 isn't a "cheapskate" price for a computer. It's a modest but still "mainstream" price for a computer. A $600 computer and a good monitor puts you at Apple's entry level price for the eMac: a $600 "iSlab" is right smack dab on target for the market Apple's going after right now.
Except it's going after it with something that people are likely to actually buy. Why is that a bad thing?
The Quadra 900 and the Quadra 700 came out in 1991. Both were powered by a 25 Mhz 68040 CPU.
So I'm thinking he means his tipping point was in '93 when he actually purchased his powerbook. My guess is that he bought a PB 180, which used a 33 Mhz 68030 CPU. The 180 was arguably the finest laptop of it's day.
The first PBs to use the 040 chip was the Blackbird series, which were introduced in 1994.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Though this has been explained time and time again, people still don't seem to get it. The truth is Apple are NOT a niche company. They are in fact one of the biggest, and certainly the most important PC company in the industry ever since they invented it. The misunderstanding is created (and heavily milked by toy companies such as Microsoft) because nobody stops to think about what a computer user actually is. The vast majority (in my experience) of Windows users are not computer users, or at least they are people who do not rely on a computer to do their work. If they did they would not be able to afford the constant patching, rebooting, viri or worse (MS patches and software). Most MS customers use computers for tasks that could be accomplished by an Amstrad Word processor 10 years ago (email/word proceccing). Of course I'm forgetting gaming. MS also appeal to people who spend over a grand on a games system thats almost as good as a $100 PS2, once you've spent an hour installing it. The hard truth is Electrical chains will continue to push joke technology such as Windows and office, as long as there are people dumb enough to buy it. That's because they can sell them a $300 computer for $1500, and know for a fact that they will need a new one in 6 months. My point is, these people are badly informed consumers, NOT computer users. Computer users are Publishing Companies, Design Agencies, Aircraft Designers, Recording Studios, ... the list is endless, but you'll probably find all of these industries dismissed by the so called computer press (ie MS press) as 'niche' industries. How convenient.
I challenge anybody to name a single MS innovation since they ported somebody elses code to the Altair. Not much of a record for a so called 'Industry Leader' hah.
I know this has been explained time and time again, people still don't seem to get it. The truth is Apple are NOT a niche company. They are in fact one of the biggest, and certainly the most important PC company in the industry ever since they invented it. The misunderstanding is created (and heavily milked by toy companies such as Microsoft) because nobody stops to think about what a computer user actually is. The vast majority (in my experience) of Windows users are not computer users, or at least they are people who do not rely on a computer to do their work. If they did they would not be able to afford the constant patching, rebooting, viri or worse (MS patches and software). Most MS customers use computers for tasks that could be accomplished by an Amstrad Word processor 10 years ago (email/word proceccing). Of course I'm forgetting gaming. MS also appeal to people who spend over a grand on a games system thats almost as good as a $100 PS2, once you've spent an hour installing it. The hard truth is Electrical chains will continue to push joke technology such as Windows and office, as long as there are people dumb enough to buy it. That's because they can sell them a $300 computer for $1500, and know for a fact that they will need a new one in 6 months. My point is, these people are badly informed consumers, NOT computer users. Computer users are Publishing Companies, Design Agencies, Aircraft Designers, Recording Studios, ... the list is endless, but you'll probably find all of these industries dismissed by the so called computer press (ie MS press) as 'niche' industries. How convenient.
I challenge anybody to name a single MS innovation since they ported somebody elses code to the Altair. Not much of a record for a so called 'Industry Leader' hah. The great news for all of us Mac/*nix users is that from a technology point of view, we will always be at least 5 years ahead of the 'wanabees'.
Jeez what a tool!
Or the finder. Command-shift-G then enter the path of your iPod's music folder (/Volumes/iPod Name/iPodControl/Music). You will see your music in a set of directories from which they can be copied. The directory names are not very human-readable, so the best thing to do is tell iTunes to import from this directory and create a new directory structure from the ID3 tags in the files.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Outstanding. Any trollishness is completely offset by your obvious sincerity. And the "dried zealot spooge" line was great. (Why do you think Apple is selling iPod socks?)
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
I have to wonder, because the article didn't state. Did they ask how many iPod owners switched from Mac to PC during the same time frame? :-)
BTW, I am a Mac lover, but I just hate biased reporting.
Other information I require: How big a difference does this make? If 6% of iPod owners change to Mac, how big a difference does this amount to in market share for Apple? File this under "interesting but useless statistics" without more numbers/context.
Currently hooked on AMP
Uh, every mac I've used in the last 9 years has at least two buttons on the mouse/trackball... no they're not stock, it's a $20 option, kind of like a firewire card on a wintel box usually still is, only easier. And I work in university labs often.
The software eject is Safe design. Disk mounting is careful in OS X, it helps protect data. I hit a dedicated eject button on the keyboard, disc ejects if the files aren't in use. Easier and safer and more consistent. If it gets stuck in there, there's a hardware eject that's hidden from noobs.
with much less functionality.
WTF?? I have access to an enormous range of powerful free software tools, many are industry standard and built-in, plus a solid majority of crossplatform business apps. It all multitasks smoothly and works without significant vulnerabilities or bitrot. Drag'n'drop works properly. Network operations seem an order of magnitude easier and more capable out of the box. Not to mention the experience of anyone who's done a side-by-side comparison of multimedia functionality... you can get a wintel box to work as well as a mac with that DV camera, and manage the resulting media, it's just... difficult or annoying, even for us pros, and the setup never lasts as long.
Not to sound like a troll or anything,
Oops, I fell for it.
I had a brief moment of nostalgia for my grad school Mac days when I got my ipod. But the screen died and then it did. Apple is great to do business with and I got replacements speedily. And it was easy to resynch to my laptop. But the laptop was Windows and I would have been SOL without it. So, the nostalgia died and I stopped thinking about buying a Mac. Maybe it is nostalgia that is the link to the new surge in sales. :)
I love my Mac, I love my Apple, in all the world, my Mac is best! I switched a year ago and will NEVER look back. I didn't switch because of iPod. I switched because I bought two or three applications in a row that just didn't run on my PC. PC software companies always have an excuse why their software doesn't work on your computer, "Oh, you bought this video card or that motherboard." Mac software companies have no excuse. And happily, they don't need any. Everything I've bought for my Mac has worked flawlessly. If only I could get full OSX drivers for my Canon MultiPASS F60 all-in-one. Oh well, its a piece of junk anyhow (new print head ever 4 months at $50 or so a pop.. fun fun!!), so maybe this is my excuse to move to an HP or Epson. Now, as a software developer, I wish I could use my .net expertise to develop apps for the Mac. Oh well, Java, Objective-C (Cocoa), C/C++ (Carbon), and RealBasic (after all the terrible comments I heard about RB, I was pleasently surprised with how well it worked, and also with the breadth of features that have been integrated into the language) will have to do.
Did I mention that I love my Mac like I have NEVER loved any of my PCs? And I used to build them for a living.
A single innovation from Microsoft? You're joking.
Microsoft BOB! Duh.
bash-3.00$ uname -a
SunOS panda 5.10 Generic sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-2
I suppose I should expect any comment the slightest bit critical of Apple to be modded as flamebait but this is a serious point. I could plug in a mouse but I work with a laptop on my knees a lot of the time and an external mouse is not an option for me. The control button is better that nothing but I often have another use for my other hand hand: holding coffee, a pencil, paperwork, picking my nose... and I have not even mentioned watching pr0n! It may be hard to accept but Apple does not have a 100% record when it comes to design and ergonomics. Now mod me down again, I can take it.
I seriously have no spyware problems on my machine. I run 2 machines at home, a Windows 2000 and Red Hat Linux 9.0
Sorry for double posting, forget to rebuttle in the first post.
My comments weren't to say that the Mac is a limited piece of trash, it's a machine limited by it's lack of popularity, and that anyone buying, should at the very least consider the limitation in software options before buying a machine.
You don't buy software based on the hardware, you buy the hardware based on the software you want/need to run. Seriously speaking, without the initial sarcasm of my original post, I hope those who are causally making the switch realize that the range of options they will have on the PC, will not be there on the Mac for a number of things.
No really, it's the price stopping me from getting a Mac. Why spend $1500 when I can spend $500-750 for a new machine?
Any why is it ever time I say something like that to a Mac person, they always get offended. sheesh. It's just my opinion. You can place my comments in the "Trash can".
I have a PC and a PS2, and use both for gaming. Ratchet and Clank (which I love playing) gets alot of time on my PS2. Trust me, I know what games don't run on the PC but when you measure it all up the Mac is the platform with the smallest amount of games. PCs have the widest game selection out there. Some games are only console based so if you want Halo, then you have to get an Xbox. If you want "Ratchet and Clank" or Jak, then you have to have a PS2.
But staying on topic to the original post, the Mac is limited in software options, that's all I'm saying.
Ok I was wrong about the P2P software options.
I apologize to all the Macians.
I'm sorry.
I am one user who switched to Macintosh because of my positive experience with the iPod.
Although I run PC's at home; i bought my first Macintosh last month (an iBook G4 -- i've used them but not regularly, in the past--OS X being *IX is a HUGE draw for me)
All the subsequent family Computers will now be Macintoshes.
j.
I don't have actual statistics (bad, I know) to back this up, but the bulk of Microsoft's, Intel's, Mitsumi's, etc. transactions are B2B. End-user, home sales (for gaming and otherwise) are small potatoes compared to site-licensing contracts with large corporations. Also, I worked at a Mac-only retailer for awhile. The owner decided to start selling games to attract more customers. Number of games sold in six months = 0. Yes, folks, the Mac gaming community is thriving. And we didn't carry things like "Backyard Baseball" and "Clifford gets Mange," no these were titles like "Halo," "Unreal Tournament," "The Sims," and "4x4 Evo." I hate to break it to you, but I think gaming is the last thing on Apple's collective mind (anyone remember the @mark?)
http://www.bynarystudio.com