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Aus. Gov't Considers Fines for Online Suicide Info
downundarob writes "The Australian federal government is once again showing its cluelessness regarding the workings of the Internet. The short article tells us how, under legislation to be introduced this week, corporations would be fined up to AU$500,000 and individuals AU$100,000 if they use the Internet to incite or promote suicide methods. In Australia it is illegal to commit, or attempt to commit suicide."
Step 2: Fines for slashdot.
This is great! Now we will end the scourge of suicide forever. Funny no-one thought of this before.
Some people actually want to commit suicide a quiet way. I had a deep depression last winter and actively looked for such info but could not find some.
If I were to look again, I think I'd offer one $ more than the fine amount to the one who'd help me.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
they should instate the death penalty for suicides. that should have a deterrant effect.
Wait, let me guess - they institute the death penalty for suicide??? What a stupid law (as are most)... RW
Darn, now I'll have to move my site elsewhere...
My UID is prime and so is this number: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0.
This just in..
High school girl arrested for telling her boyfriend to 'drink bleach and die'
If this were Fark, we'd need an 'Aussie' tag.
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
seeing as the Internet is a major contributing factor to depression and suicide nowadays.
Imagine being fined committing suicide. Give you more incentive to jump wouldn't it?
I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born - Ronald Reagan
... the First Amendmentment gives us. As much as I despise some the the conservative laws in the US, I'm still proud of the fact that we support freedom of speech in some of the most extreme cases.
In Australia it is illegal to commit, or attempt to commit suicide.
Suicide and sedition: the only crimes where those who suceed aren't prosecuted.
--
Free iPod? Try a free Mac Mini
Or a free Nintendo DS, GC, PS2, Xbox
Wired article as proof
Governments everywhere legislate what is and what is not objectionable material. This is just part of australia saying that this is material that they do not want published in australian websites. Your views may differ as to whether it is right to or not, but it is not unreasonable for governments to object to sites showing how to do illegal things.
Different in terms of why it is objectionable, but the same reasons lie behind why governments legislate against kiddy pr0n, pull down sites with bomb making instructions, incitements for hatred (in many countries).
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World" 1 John 4:14
The reason is actually, they know it is stupid to make suicide illegal -- but if it weren't illegal -- then when you tried to commit suicide, there would be no crime taking place, so they couldn't send anyone to try and save you.
As far as WTF australia is thinking, they have consistantly not gotten it when it comes to the internet ... Im sure this is nothing new :)
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
to commit suicide, you must not be seriously considering it. Because most people who are serious aren't too concerned about how they will die much less that they will in the end, die.
Give me a break, are they going to fine libraries for having murder mysteries? Oh my, he shot that man, perhaps I could shoot myself!
What a crock of dirty dog poo.
[cx]
Just have to do it right the first time then...
They can sue http://livejournal.com/, hosting the most suicidal entries known to man.
... will not hinder free speech"
"Justice Minister Chris Ellison says the laws
Well I'm sorry, but I don't think you can take down a site that says "Life sucks, kill yourself" without violating free speech.
what would they do to somebody that suicides?.
People was born free and not they are not meant to be the revenue source of greedy goverments.
If you want to suicide go ahead, be free, is what free will is about.
The threat of a fine is surely pointless?
Unless it's passed onto the family as 'inherited debt' in which case it's nothing more than a money raising exercise.
--
...now where's something poisonous when you need it.
A .sig I often use contains the word: Die! Die! Die!!
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
... my suicide info if you wish, just leave me and my coprophilia be, Canberra!
Remember children, all generalizations are wrong.
Good thing Maddox doesn't live in Australia. Afterall, I think his sucicide ideas are the best:
How to kill yourself like a man
Before posting any more 'funny' jokes, try reading the article first: The law is about those inciting or promoting suicide, not those committing it. It also sounds perfectly sensible to me, why should any psycho be free to push desperate people kill themselves in the name of free speech? Depression needs careful approach and support, not some idiot advising you to suicide.
Does this mean Apple is going to be fined $500,000 for suing all those fan based websites ? I mean, heck, that's "Corporate Suicide" right ?
StupidChildren...the reason jesus is crying
I guess this covers
http://www.endyourself.com/
Clippy is obviously guilty.
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
Suicide is illegal because only the government can kill you. - that is the next step down the slippery slope of freedom violations, we won't have the freedom to free ourselves of this existence.
I can see it now...
In Australia, is it illegal to go up to someone and incite them to commit suicide?
:-P
Welp... there goes the goth kids. Really though. Where are all of those entertaining sites with the entertaining ways to kill yourself on them? Like Maddox's. He'll be fined massively and such. This isn't a very good way for Australia to make friends.
And doesn't euthanasia count also as assisted suicide?
Once again people at slashdot prooves how out of touch with the real world they are.
What's wrong with banning contents providing information on how to commit suicide. Nothings wrong with it... the worst that can happen is one person suicides and does it wrong and actually survives! (which is of course debatable if thats a good thing or not)
Slashdot needs to understand: Suicide bad! Life good!
Sometimes people in slashdot just shows how out of touch they are with the rest of humanity.
I've always found it interesting that it is illegal to a) commit suicide or b) attempt to commit suicide.
a) What are they going to do to you when you are dead?
b) If you are going to do it, make sure you do it right.
Seems like b) is more about deterring you from taking up an expensive hospital bed.
everyone should have the right to kill themselves!
Pictochat Art!!!
argh, why can't people leave others alone? If they feel miserable enough to consider suicide, then respect their decision. you don't always know the whole story behind it, so just automatically saying "oh dont kill yourself, get professional help" goes in one ear and out the other. Seriously, I just ignore the default-talking-out-of-suicide talks because they're unbelievably redundant and irritating. Save yourself the trouble.
When I go through my suicidal phases, what helps most is talking to close friends who have dealt with similar issues, especially if they listen to you ranting (which really feels good). Not $random_person telling me it's a bad idea, blah blah.
Sorry for ranting.
You beat me to it.
11,456,324 Slashdotters didn't read the fucking article.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Please stop copy-and-pasting your pyramid scheme into your messages. Those of us who have disabled signatures have done so for a reason: We do not want to see your stupid advertisements. So please stop lest I find it necessary to shit on your head.
What I didn't know is what methods would assuredly kill me. Or, if they wouldn't necessarily kill me, leave me without lasting harm. The Internet told me. There are all kinds of websites out there talking about the various suicide methods, with recommendations. You can easily order Final Exit, or even find the text online.
Moreover, the Internet provides knowledge for where to obtain lethal substances, and substances that put you in a state making it easier to kill yourself.
I am quite confident that I would never have attempted suicide if I didn't have access to the Internet. The method I chose would not have even occurred to me if I hadn't read about it online. Indeed, it was the most recommended method on the net, and I wouldn't have thought it.
So I think it's obvious that the Internet lowers the bar to committing suicide.
But that said, it's ridiculous to consider sensoring this information. There are the obvious free speech issues which I'm sure other people here will discuss. What I want to note, however, is that for me, research suicide options was also therapeutic. People think how terrible it is that someone would contemplate suicide, but they don't realize how much thinking about it can relieve the pain that you're in. I could lose all control of my thought processes, spiarling downward, but when I started imagining shooting myself, I felt *better*. In this way, the research I did on suicide was also soothing. Instead of curling up in a ball on the floor, I could focus my mind on this subject, and this subject alone, and I would calm down and feel relief.
So it's a two-edged sword. The knowledge I gained on the Internet did enable my attempt. But being able to research that material made me feel better, better than I would have otherwise.
Final disclaimer: All happy people are more or less the same, but all depressed people are depressed in their own way. So this is my experience only. (Yes, I've been doing well for some time--thanks for asking!)
"My girlfriend's got sodium laureth sulfate hair."
If you need ideas on how to kill yourself, then you don't really want to die. As a Roman Empire era judge said to someone convicted of the capital crime of being a Christian because he refused to deny he was one, "I have better things to do than help you commit suicide. Are there not cliffs enough in the world for you to do that without me?" (paraphrased)
they are so dumb, they should just kill themself... wait, oh yeah, they tried.
How about the patriot Act?
How about Churchill from CU?
As to other rights, I am amazed that Gov. Owens who fights against Quota's for race (Cool), is pushing to have Quota's at Universities based on Political Belief. Worse, he wants the Colorado Universities to only extend tenure to those who profess a conservative belief. And had the republicans controlled the colorado congress, they would have passed that.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
... that ISPs and search engines could be in trouble for providing access to sites promoting suicide. Also, watch those links in your Guestbook!
120 chars are not enough for a signature. I have discovered a truly remarkable proof which this margin is too small to c
Ah, but if you were to attempt suicide by means of a nuclear mishap, you could save a lot on fines http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/26/14 24232&tid=153&tid=98&tid=17/.
What will become of Maddox?
Well, duh!?
"The short article tells us how, under legislation to be introduced this week"
that says to me that it's just legislation that will be introduced and hasn't become a law yet.
not that i claim any familiarity with the australian system of government, but here in the states when new legislation is introduced it's not that amazing, it's if it passes in the house and senate and passes the president's veto power that it becomes law...
can anyone shed further light?
And if there's one thing that guy's taught us, it's that Australia is full of critters that will happily kill you if you just piss them off a little. It's probably much easier to kill yourself off there than it is here in the states (Although we also have our share of poisonous nasties.) Most of the methods you can find on the internet are much more pedestrian than "Walk down to the local river, get a drink and be eaten by a crocodile." Now THAT's a great way to go, eh? Just make sure it gets you by the head and not by a leg or something...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Australia decriminalised suicide. It is not an offence to commit or attempt to commit suicide. It is an offence to aid another person to commit suicide however the murder-suicide pact defence is available !
It's against the law to take one's own life.
The penalty is death.
Assume I was drunk when I posted this.
They are just saying their citizens and coporations should not be promoting the material. It is not a difficult law to enforce. If company X is selling pills to kill yourself with, and providing instructions on how to use them, Australia will fine them.
or else!
I understand the need to outlaw suicide so its never a state endorsed, but there are times when suicide is better than enduring pain.
I heard a comment from someone the other day, saying how if the state endorsed it, people would ask the elderly who are a burden to commit suicide. I suppose if its financial and the family is hurting, but damn...
On cases of cancer and such, if I was dieing and in pain, and with the outlaw of drugs that could help, one could be tempted...
Now imagine you need to commit suicide, you could mess up and make your pain worse, or die horrible. Thats why reasons black info needs to exist, the day you have to use....
Dunno, personally I've made it a point to tell some variant of "yeah, go do it" to anyone playing the suicidal role.
;)
Thing is, I don't believe that they actually want to die. They just want to get saved and get attention. If you will, a rather extreme RL variant of what we call "trolling" on the net: causing grief to get attention.
E.g., sorry, I don't believe that a school mate "suiciding" on sleeping pills while her mom and family were at home can count as a honest suicide attempt. And for such a blatant reason as that she thought her mom loves her sisters more than her. It just says "please save me and cry".
And much as I'm tempted to apply Hanlon's Razor ("never attribute to malice, that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"), we're not talking the village idiot here. We're talking an _extremely_ intelligent girl.
So to cut a long story short, my theory is that they're either:
A) trolling for attention, in which case I'm just applying the "don't feed the troll" principle. If they actually get enough attention with the "waah, I want to commit suicide" act, they might actually talk themselves into doing it. On the other hand, "yeah, go do it, noone gives a damn if you do. And here's some good ways to do it, btw" will usually lose a friend, but might well keep them from actually doing it.
And if they still do, might as well have enough info to succeed. Think of it as the Darwin Awards. Anyone stupid enough to actually try a suicide for attention, well, I see no real problem with helping them remove themselves from the gene pool.
B) actually honestly want to end it all. In which case, I can't see any reason to keep them from doing it. It's their life, it's entirely their decision how to live it. Or whether to live it or not.
Keeping them uninformed is gonna solve... what? Get them to do something extremely stupid and end up _crippled_ instead? Yeah, that sooo solves their problems
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Given the replies and personal email I got, I wanted to specify something :
I wrote "I had" becase it's over.
I'm cured.
I was having a bad time: I lost a job which I actually hated, and I also considered changing my life.
I then had the following strategy : Waiting until the temperature would fall below -10C and sleep naked in my balcony.
The cold came... but too late.
I did not want to end it abruptly because I am married with a delicious woman and I wanted it to look like an accident.
Finally, I decided to perform my auto-therapy.
I am creative, you might not lik what I do but I have fun doin it.
I recorded a rock album which is described here and available (for free) here.
My advice ?
Spit the anger and the fear. You'll end fearless, stronger and alive !
God bless you.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
buh-bye warning labels.
Sideshow Bob: "Oh, that's just German for, 'The, Bart, The.'"
It would be cool if it didn't suck.
The current Howard Liberal government has been strongly present in the ongoing debate re: the morality of euthanasia - and are clearly anti in an overall moral/policy sense. Several cases over recent years involving assisted suicides have seen spouses/partners of the terminally ill going thru very public and debated legal processes, and Dr Phillip Nitschke, a prominent euthanasia advocate, has been the focus of much attention, particularly from the government - much of it bordering on ominous.
The legislation may ostensibly be framed such that "a person is not guilty of an offence merely because a person is engaged in public discussion and debate about euthanasia", but I am forced to wonder about the status under this legislation of Dr Nitschke and other pro-euthanasia figures who are prominent in their views, may seek to express these views online, and who have been specifically categorised by members of the current government as 'actively promoting' assisted suicide?
Perhaps the old tin foil is itching to see daylight, but I have an inherent suspicion about the motives behind such legislation given the current government philosophy, a suspicion intensified when the premise behind such legislation is the mere presence of 'suicide sites' in Japan and the US.
"Get off the cross - we need the wood" - Tori Amos
When did people lose the right to not live any longer? This topic has allways seemed silly to me, if someone wants to die let them. If they can't do it them selves for some reason, there should be some way they can ask for assitance.
Ones right to live is the same right to die.
TruePunk | Games
Great idea. Because of the amazing way the internet works (information only the learned nerds trully understand,) no one needs to take any responsibility for anything on the net. Great thinking here guys. As for whether death is a good way to solve unhappiness? I guess the happy and unhappy would have different views on this so I'm not sticking my nose into this one, suffice it to say that if the Australian's are happy with a law stating suicide is illegal, then this legislation is nothing more but a natural extension to that law. For those of you less learned in ways of lands beyond the US. There is no automatic guarantee of freedom of speech in Australia (much like Britain.) As such, discussion about the benefits and pitfalls of freedom of speech is best reserved for elsewhere.
From Australia's casual "Do as you like with your life" policy at the moment.
so lets see. if you attemp suicide and they save you (EMS or something) they are going to fine you? wouldn't that just make you want to do it more?
Of course the same yahoos disagree.
Transcend Humanity. Please.
---------- Jaani.net -- internet law and technology
AUD value plummets after a sudden influx of USD due to the recently-approved suicide fines...
It's only an insult if it's not true.
Sometimes I wonder what exactly some folks are thinking, "Gee, lets make a feel good law that will look like we are actually doing something useful instead of fucking off all day and playing golf" (perhaps surfing in Australia? I'm ignorant)
/I see stupid people. Everywhere.
It is incredible to see some of these people say, with a straight face, that such and such a law won't hinder free speech when it is kinda obvious. Let's take a quick look at this.
1. I am able to post x online without being fined.
2. If I post x online, I get fined.
Fucking absurd - just like this gem.
"In Australia it is illegal to commit, or attempt to commit suicide." Because, you know, people who want to kill themselves are concerned with jail (which, by the way, aren't exactly murder-free, especially if you are Aboriginal, the guards might decide to beat you to death on a whim, I'm not trying to troll or make shit up, (google "australia "death in custody"").
Most fucking retarded law ever (and I know not only Australia has it). Or, I know, put someone, who is already suicidal $100,000 in debt, yeah, that will work.
Besides, what is the difference between euthanasia and suicide? A link to a angst filled livejournal page? I'm only half kidding - both involve methods of killing yourself.
And be-fucking-sides, the mass suicide guy did all his stuff through IRC. Then again, it doesn't fucking matter, the dumbshit who wrote the bill doesn't know the fucking difference, and doesn't care (neither, for that matter do most of the people who he represents).
.
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
Timothy says "In Australia it is illegal to commit, or attempt to commit suicide." Not true. Sure we'd try to stop you, like all civilised cultures. But if you don't succeed, it's not an offence - just sad. IMHO, Australia has more freedom than America to live our life as we choose. We don't have to act as christians just to fit in with the majority.
... suicide commits you!
What I don't understand is how can be illegal to commit suicide? How will they punish you after? Well, if you fail, you are in their hands, but in this case, you are even more motivated not to fail your suicide.
The main reason why they made it illegal to commit suicide was to prevent people's estates (i.e. the people under their will) from profiting from the incident. All proceeds of criminal offences actually become property of the state.
/. out.
Also it is to prevent people from refusing medicial treatment which would save their lives.
ANYWAY! the news item is slightly wrong!! In many states of Australia, legislation has been passed to make suicide not illegal.
It should read in some Australian states, suicide is illegal.
please dont assume what our politicians are thinking
I presume you meant "please don't assume that our politicians are thinking"...
Blank until
Well for those of you whom are morbidly interested you can go here.
Someone sent the link to me a while back, interesting read.
Also, it is interesting to note that in Japan, if you commit suicide using the "jump in front of commuter train" method, your FAMILY gets the fines if you succeed (and you do if you fail). The fines consists of the clean up costs, any property damages you cause, and some amount to cover "the inconvience to other commuters" fine on top of it. This apparently works fairly well in Japan, but then it is the "shame" it bring to the family (the Asian "face" thing, western equvilant might be "honor"), and that is a cultural thing which makes potential "jumpers" think twice.
Also...... In the United States, suicide is legal ONLY in Oregon. All other states prohibit such a thing either specifically via a Law or indirectly with some other statue prohibiting another thing that leads to suicide. Interesting read here.
In the United Kingdoms, it is not illegal to commit suicide on your own by the Suicide Act of 1961, but you may not aid someone else.
The discussion about suicides and ethanasia has been discussed to death in my philosphy class, so I will not go in to the moral details/discussions of it.
And finally, the obligatory Wikipedia link about Suicide and Euthanasia.
For those wondering why I look these things up, I work at a mortuary, these things are not uncommon.
You want to use firearms. Something like a shotgun should do, whatever it is you want it to give the maximum spread and extent of damage. If you've got just like a handgun lying around or something, don't bother. Take the time to buy the most appropriate weapon for the job, if you can't wait long enough to obtain a worthwhile gun then you don't really want to do this at all. You want firearms because you want to minimize, above all, the risk something can go wrong. "Close" isn't good enough, "close" means waking up tied to a gurney in a state hospital, possibly with serious wounds or brain damage.
In order to avoid "close", you want a method which is as simple and quick and possible. Hence, firearms. Methods based on poison or strangulation have a period during which things can go wrong, and if you vomit or the rope breaks before then, you've failed; you want to avoid this risk entirely. Similarly methods based on falling, snapping your neck, or fire have the possibility that you very well might get "lucky"; you want to avoid this risk entirely as well.
Even with the firearm be careful; where you aim matters, not all the lobes of the brain are essential (the ones in the temples especially it generally doesn't matter if you lose them), and you want to make sure you do this in a place and at a time where in a worst case scenario you can successfully bleed to death without being disturbed.
Do not slit your wrists. I repeat: do not slit your wrists, period, under any circumstances, or even try. There's this rediculous "down not across" meme floating around lately. Doesn't matter. Even if you do it "right", it's still not going to work. Those funny visible blue veins near the surface aren't what you're aiming for at all, and the cuts necessary to slit one's wrists successfully are just so ridiculously deep there's just about no chances of you self-administering such a wound. Similarly: Don't try to kill yourself with carbon monoxide. Just don't bother trying, for one thing it's a much more horrible way to die than you think.
For more information and advice I highly recommend looking for the alt.suicide.holiday "methods file", likely available on google.
And if this is about your love life, or your girlfriend, or some other stupid shallow thing that honestly you're going to forget in a month, don't do it. Suicide is a permanent solution and it is for permanent problems, and permanent problems only. Most problems, whatever they look like to your whiny little self at the moment, are just temporary. Things to consider are that maybe you just need to get over it, and maybe you just have a brain chemistry imbalance which is preventing you from seeing the situation properly. If at any point reading the above you find yourself thinking "but what if I don't have the courage to pull it off" then you had better fucking consider these last two possibilities a lot more strongly.
"You can't yell fire in a crowded theatre." Therefore you have no free speech rights at all. Funny how those seven little words can overpower centuries of struggles to establish the lack of right that the state has to interfere with the expression of a free individual. Funny how these are just words, yet I have to post this as anonymous coward.
Many a time I have felt like committing suicide when looking in vain for information on the federal government's website.
So if the M$ helpdesk sends you an e-mail stating that you've lost all your data and you should format and reinstall from the recovery CD, M$ can be fined $500K?
i.e. will they have to start prohibiting access to things like A Practical Guide to Suicide (probably the most level-headed discussion of it I've ever seen, regardless of who backs it)?
You're a fucking moron.
... and it is only illegal to attempt suicide in one jurisdiction (of reltively small population - around 200 000)
from http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/ti52.pdf
"In all jurisdictions, suicide is no longer a crime and, except in the Northern Territory, the crime of attempted suicide has also been abolished. It is, however, still an offence for a person to assist another person to commit suicide or to attempt to commit suicide"
and if they'd been around anybody with depression, they'd know they don't just go "Oh I'm depressed, but I know it'll pass"
Fuck you and your telling that other guy that you'd help his sister by telling her how to kill herself. :)
Bless you and your inability to read.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
I really loathe laws that are to 'protect the vulnerable - not me you understand'.
People objecting to pornography, violence on TV. Sex education in schools etc etc. It's always to protect other people from corruption. Who are these mythical people, with cheese for brains? Nobody ever demands it's removal to protect themselves.
"Think of the children" blah blah
i don't think this law is about some sort of censorship of how-to manuals
i think this australian law is intended to deal with people like this guy
suicide pacts are not funny, in japan they are frighteningly more prevalent than elsewhere
gis, news, for "suicide pact"
coughed up this about the australian law
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
i don't think this law is about some sort of censorship of how-to manuals
That is not the way the Australian government is advertising it to the press, no.
But that is definitely what it is and what it is about. The suicide pact sites are just a convenient tool to get the Howard government what they want.
The law should end at the surface of the skin, inside my body and my mind is my own kingdom.
I should have the right the think what I want.
Eat or Drink what I want.
Withdraw my Labour.
Withdraw my Life.
There can be no democracy without these freedoms.
Sure people make stupid descisions, especially when they are feeling depressed, society should help people out.
But some people make rational decisions and in the end that must be respected, it often is a brave thing to do.
PS there is no Hell cept on Earth.
Take this remark:
I strongly suspect the Australia federal government knows a bit more about the law and the Internet than a guy who calls himself "downundarob," and has nothing better to do with his time than haunt Slashdot. And reading the article itself reinforces the impression that Justice Minister Chris Ellison knows exactly what he is doing.If I had a friend troubled with depression, I'd be delighted to know that the government was fining strangers with nasty little agendas who were trying to get her to kill herself while remaining very much alive themselves.
--Mike Perry, Inkling Books, Seattle
Last year a friend of mine committed suicide by overdosing on painkillers in a hotel room in Sydney. He was a brilliant guy.
On his request his father emailed all his friends to inform them. I'm in London now, and so may not have heard if not for the email.
The immense stupidity of this current course of action may lead to the law makers trying harder to 'crack down' at election time to cover failing. Also perhaps to please the religious Right, who seem to be the only voters able to form a lobby these days.
I dread the day when mentioning a suicide is criminalised in an attempt to Double Speak the concept away.
Here in Britain it is legal to commit suicide. On the Tube and the overland, one of the portfoli of computer Automated voice messages for why a train is late is a 'Person under a Train'. Everyone sighs, rolls there eyes and accepts it is a better reason than 'Leaves on the Track'. Unfortunately people do commit criminal suicide attempts as well.
G-d rest your soul Tristan, you are missed.
[% slash_sig_val.text %]
Rich.
One ticket to Hull now please ...
libguestfs - tools for accessing and modifying virtual machine disk images
If you've gotten a few of those talks through your life, maybe you do have a problem. Your average person doesn't get those kind of talks, ever. Your average person also doesn't burden their friends with those kind of things. And your average person doesn't have "suicidal phases". Consider keeping a log of how often you feel frustrated with life and want to end it all. You might discover that you're spending 25% of your life being seriously depressed. Even if you don't kill yourself, that's the kind of thing that can interfere with school, career, relationships, and pretty much anything in your life.
Of course, it's one thing to be depressed or despondant because something happened (death of spouse or child), but it's another to be depressed for no reason. Depressed people might say, "I'm depressed because my life sucks." It could be that their life sucks because they're depressed a lot of the time and don't get any of the things done that usually give people satisfaction (e.g., success in work, school, relationships).
My other first post is car post.
For some people who are suffering emotionally it can be however a reassurance to have a method at hand they can "live with" (no phun intended) as a backup; "If my suffering exceeds my ability to cope I *can* decide to step out". Which actually results in being able to get on with their lives, and find new courage again cause they have found some sort of control over their life and situation.
I imagine this wouldn't the case for everyone who's feeling suicidal.
I think we can keep recursing like this until someone returns 1
One of those electronic chernobyls on your LAN will kill your business... a suicide of sorts.
Wow, and it's just like all the others.
She's dead, for her there is no more pain, regret, sorrow, or inequity. She has her peace.
What you're mourning are the dead dreams she could no longer bear the weight of. Not her, but the her you mistakenly imagine might have been.
The pain you endure, that was but a part of what she endured everyday since she decided suicide was a realistic option, and what you would have her endure indefinately. But in your case, while it will never vanish, it will at least diminish to a familiar ache and the occasional sharp pain. She had no such assurances. That she made so final a choice is your proof.
The spirit dies, the body follows. That you choose to mourn the body which you confuse for the spirit is telling. She left you with some good times and hard lessons. Take those; bury the rest.
Someone please mod crypnotic down...
-- "...I'm a bad guy because I, well, I sing some rock-and-roll songs." M. Manson
crap better download the internet before my government stops me searching for suicide information. hope my 1.5mbit connection can handle a couple of TB in the next few days.
If I were to meet your sister at the time she needed it, I'd sugegst she'd do it, but not as at a psychiatrist : you don't want to make it whle resting on a sofa, with some prozac to alter your perception. You want it to be painful, you want it to be like vomit.
How am I supposed to read "I'd sugegst she'd do it"?
My other first post is car post.
So if this passes it would be illegal for me to tell everyone on slashdot that they are all hopeless nerds with no hope of getting laid.
These sites aren't about ideas, these bring together people who have suicidal thoughts. They discuss these thoughts and it can eventually develop into a group suicide.
People with suicidal thoughts need to speak to someone who can show them the good things in their life and can help them solve all their problems, they don't need to be speaking to someone who talks them into it.
Did the helium give you a headache?
Transcend Humanity. Please.
Depressed people have probably heard this alot, but please don't suicide. I was very depressed once myself I know what it's like.
s ium d epression+%22omega+3%22&btnG=Search
We don't get depressed because we have a bad day. You know about 9 out 10 cases of depression go away with magnesium and omega 3 supplementation and the other tenth aren't too difficult to figure out either. Most people are depressed because they eat a bad diet and they eat a bad diet because they are depressed. Please go look this all up on Google and make yourself educated about what really causes low mood. The depression can often go away like magic when you address whats really wrong.
http://www.google.com/search?q=depression%20magne
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&q=
Dear Cryptnotic:
:)
I was refering to this "Ad Absurdum Reductio" that I made:
yelling "I want to die", starving, pushing my body to its extremities.
And then realise that it made it produce endorphins... pleasure. I was feeling good.
Apathy is what's bad. Meet the depressed, shake them, force them to do sport. Make them aware of what body they are into and how stupid it'd be to waste it.
I'm sorry you took it out of its context.
I agree I might be difficult to understand, being a non-native speaker.
Anyway, your anger fell 4 months too late but I accept it as a "moment d'egarement".
Be strong
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Suicide commits you!
i've been giving this eaten by dingos thing a lot of thought recently. the baby that was stolen by dingos was called azaria and my eight year old daughter has the same name.
this wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for the fact that we are planning to emigrate from england to adelaide in australia. (any adelaidians out there?).
will my daughters name make her the butt of loads of dingo jokes? is azaria a taboo name? it's going to be tough for her moving to another country without having to deal with that shit.
Australian Bureau of Statistics says:I don't feel any great objections to penalties for encouraging suicide...
I'm really surprised that there is a Western democracy where Suicide, or the attempt of it, is still an illegal act. This is so medieval, so behind the times. This is almost as if Psychiatry never happened; do they still accuse the old and frail of witchery when they become mentally ill in Australia and burn them at the stake?! Do they still throw them in flotation tanks to see if they sink like the healthy would be expected, or if their osteoporotic bodies with their brittle bones, lacking in lean mass, as most elderly women are, float in water and hence conclude that they floated because they lack a soul and the devil had possessed them? Do they still torture them and search the genitalia of elderly women looking for the "devil's mark", because the devil is "cunning" and has hidden it from sight, which they often found because the searchers were ignorant and the women were of poor health?
This is the legislation from which the criminalisation of a feature of mental illness had come; one where the faithful were promised to be joyous and therefore the wretched must had been wicked and from their sins they deserved their misery, one where God owned the soul of a man and a man should not commit a crime against his Lord. This is as if humanism never happened. I am surprised that it is still a crime in Australia! How unhuman, how inhumane!
Some harsh warning labels actually say that doing XYZ can/will kill you.
:D
.au! I pick it as a mirror from sf.net even tho' I am .eu, because I love it so much!!11)
:-) lol. or not.
My new 'build you own nuclear bomb' webpage is legal in Australia, except the part that says 'warning detonation of this bomb while you are within a 12 mile radius can be immediately life threatening' (hence you can suicide)
Now this site is so illegal I get a bone everytime I code html for it. I hope someone sues me so I can run a loki-like fun raiser!
That hole in the ozone must be meddling with thier heads!
Strewth! (I love
I think they mean sites that say 'how to commit suicide in a painless way, what documents you should sort out, and what life insurance is good' and then walk people through with warm words of encouragement.
I'd love one of these sites to get sued by an unhappy customer who failed in his quest becuase step 5 was badly written!
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
Clinical depression, by its definition, is not temporary but chronic.
It can be cured but in a significant minority of cases there will be no, or a limited, response to treatment.
If it is illegal to commit suicide, it is not possible for life insurance companies to pay out to a victim of depressive illness's family, even if they wanted to. It would simply not be an insurable risk (general priciple that you cannot insure against your own commission of a crime).
My grandfather was diagnosed with Alzheimer's about a year ago. He had talked about committing suicide and everyone told him that would be a horrible thing. Since that time, his mental faculties have continued to go downhill to the point that he doesn't know who most of us are, and he does strange things and then doesn't know why he did them or how to undo them. For instance, he once drove (drove!) to the hardware store only to find that he didn't know why he was there or how to operate the truck enough to drive home. At this point he is living in a care facility where the doors are all locked so that he and others like him can't do anything dangerous. It's like a prison. He's of course angry and distrustful of everyone because he doesn't want to be there and doesn't understand why he has to be. Nothing makes sense to him now. He spends most of his time being angry or sad. In hindsight, I would agree that suicide in his circumstance was a much better option than where he is currently. At least if he were dead he'd be in peace. Now he is in hell.
The thing is, a person *can't* be sure that "no amount of love or joy can mitigate it."
It's completely impossible to predict the future in it's entirety debilitated or not.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Ok, so I understand how attempting to commit suicide is illegal. I also understand how aiding a suicide (attempt or otherwise) would be illegal. Someone explain to me, please: how is it illegal to actually commit suicide?
What do they do when they catch you? Whip your corpse?
...the media does not put out stories about suicide because apparently it gives ideas to people with depression. There is no legislation, it is just an industry agreement.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Get some professional help for that anger problem.
In this world nothing is certain but death, taxes and flawed car analogies.
Punishable by death!
From Bash:
Neo-Tokyo: wouldnt you say suicide is a permenant solution to a temporary problem?
`[6]: I'm a Buddhist, I'd say suicide is a temporary solution to a permanent problem.
http://www.bash.org/?190241
Don't put advice in your sig.
the internet can be an incredibly liberating thing sometimes...
during a particularly dark period in my life, i was seriously contemplating suicide.
during a particularly bad 'drown yourself in sorrows' spell, i spent time reading the most fucked up newspaper stories i could find on the internet. downloaded really shitty videos of people getting messed up, tragedies, horrors, etc.
as horrible as my situation was, i eventually realized there were lots of people who were far, far worse off. somehow the comparative suckiness analysis helped pull me out of my pit.
Have some respect for others if you want others to respect you.
Find a job you like and you will never work a day in your life.
While I find scuicide to be a tragic reaction to life's difficulties, what the hell good is it to pass a law "outlawing" it?
I can see it now: Well, I want to kill myself, but I don't want to break the law. Damn. Guess I can't kill myself.
We should ban dogs as well, don't want another Son of Sam situation on our hands.
We already have laws for murder, attempted murder, conspiracy to murder etc.
I'm also a little bit confused about what you've said. You want to diminish the responsibility of the neighbour? It wasn't his fault (the poor thing) some evil person told him to do it?
Thank you. I needed to read that.
Xanga, particularly all those groups who are pro-anorexia.
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
I lost all of my friends and ruined relationships I thought would, and might have, lasted forever and have pretty much retreated from the world. For about two years I went through a severe depressed episode, the whole time almost getting help here and there. I truely thought all things were lost and started to slowly kill myself with any type of controlled substance I could get my hands on.
Ok, that was a severe exaggeration, but I was binging on everything. I started to do stupid (fun) things that would later set me up for a lot of trouble until something changed. I didn't get help, I just had a conversion. It happened to be a religious conversion but it wasn't religion that saved me. Well, I went through three religions before I settled on one I liked and incorporated everything else I learned.
During all of this I realized on the side that I was going to face bad days. I was going to be depressed and that my life wasn't going to end up the way I had always dreamed (which is a understatement-I barely function). But you know, I realized that hurting everyone else was pretty petty considering if I waited it out I would feel better some day. My chance of feeling like that forever was zero; so why not just say "Fuck it" and move on?
Not only is suicide the worst way to treat depression it is never the answer to any problem. Drugs, crime, shame, anything.... it's happened to someone before, lots of people. Some of them made it out. Shit, even if you are on crack - smoke that and say fuck it and live. You won't get a chance to do it again. I'm not even going to get on a high horse and tell you to quit the pipe - that is something to live for, it's a start.
Get your Unix fortune now!
But what about books ? People could read books and work out how to kill themselves, everyday household books at that. Even a cookers instruction manual may tell them how to kill themselves if it warns about the potentially harmful effects of gas. They must ban books too.
Ohmygod... An what about language itself ? They may speak to someone and gain the knowledge required to kill themselves. They must ban speech. In fact to be on the safe side ban all languages and alphabets too.
Come on Aussie parliament, you've only scratched the surface of what needs banning... you must think of the children. For gruds sake think of the children...
Sky subscribers are morons. They pay to be advertised at !
...what is the penalty in Australia for committing suicide?
without a net.
But, alas, I've already posted in this thread.
That's the thing I wish more people would understand already. That being depressed doesn't mean being an irrational retard all of a sudden.
Now I haven't ever received a "don't suicide" talk, but I was on the receiving end of more than one canned ISO-standard "no need to be depressed" talk. You don't even need to whine about depression to get one out of some people. Just mentioning something like "this is sorta depressing" or "I feel kinda depressed today" causes a knee-jerk reaction in some people to mechanically give you a "no need to be depressed" talk.
And those talks are soo stupid, they usually just eventually get me from "sorta depressed" to "enraged homicidal psycho".
I mean, yeah, no shit that I don't _need_ to be depressed. I sooo needed them to tell me that. I mean, geesh. It's not like I sat there, had a rational analysis of the situation, and decided "yep, the only rational thing to do there is to have a jolly good depression."
Well, either way, thanks. It made my day that someone somewhere knows better than to do that.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Suicide is a perfectly valid option for any SANE person. If i am responsible to provide myself food, shelter, money ect. Then i am also responsible to quit any time i like.
Otherwise its just cruel punishment and imprisonment in the extreme.
Oh. you wont let me leave any time i like. Tell me what i can and cant do like a parent. So you must be responsible for me. In that case i'd like a 10 million dollars and a new car. RIGHT NOW!
Now if you expect ME to take care of all that crap that keeps me alive. Then i am responsible. And also free to leave the planet any time i like. if i am responsible for my own life. then i am also responsible for my own death.
Lets say you're 100 years old. About to die a "natural" death. Well we cant allow that! You will be taken to the hospital and pumped full of drugs to keep you alive. Which you will also have to pay for. You will not be allowed to ever leave. We'll keep you alive forever! It's the moral thing to do.
Maybe. Just maybe. If all you nosey fucks who feel the need to control other peoples lives would kill YOURSELVES. Alot more people would like to stay around longer. You wont help other people out. But you wont let them leave either. What the hell is wrong with you? Maybe people kill themselves just to get away from all you clueless screwing the planet up?
You make me sick.
Just a thought. :)
Oh wait, this is Australia, the citizens have no freedoms..
Guess that is what you get for living in a ex-penal colony...
On a more serious note, it is scary.. more restrictions on pure information..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
"Résumé"
Razors pain you;
Rivers are damp;
Acids stain you;
And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren't lawful;
Nooses give;
Gas smell awful;
You might as well live.
--Dorothy Parker, 1926.
--
$tar -xvf
Has anyone read Maddox's opinion on suicide? He jokingly encourages such an act, but would a site such as his, even though it is meant to be satirical and not serious be a crime in the eyes of the Australian government? The link to his suicide article is http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=su icide
Enjoy
Seriously? If you fail in a suicide attempt, by making it illegal the state has the authority to restrain you against your will, which usually means that they can forcibly prevent you from attempting suicide again until some kind of treatment is located and applied.
Otherwise, they would have to release you as soon as you're bandaged, and you could try again hours later. The authorities would have no opportunity to prevent you from attempting it again.
Also, to deny life insurance benefits.
--
$tar -xvf
Just keep reading Slashdot until, one by one, your brain cells atrophy and die. Eventually you'......
+++[NO CARRIER]
I wonder how much of this action in AU is related to JP suicide clubs?
"In Japan, the internet has been blamed for a spate of group suicides which appear to have been arranged in online chat rooms."
It appears that often the people facilitating these suicides are in fact sadists, who have no intention themselves of carrying through a suicide, but instead derive perverse pleasure from being instrumental in the death of another. If a similar phenomenon exists in AU, it would give the authorities an opportunity to intervene--and based on the text of TFA, this appears closer to their intent.
--
$tar -xvf
..someone dies by commiting suicide? What do you do? Fine their estate? Fine their relatives? Perform CPR and ask him for his ATM PIN Number? Send collection notices to his graveyard plot? Threaten to take everything he owns?
The truth does not change by our ability to stomach it -Flannery O'Conner
The sooner mankind comes to peace with the fact that everyone dies, the better.
Hell, man created religion to deal with it. Thousands of years later, we still can't accept it.
Hell, if someone wants to kill themself, in a non-selfish way, then by all means let them.
Way to go, most people who are suicidal are because they can't take people like you beating them with sticks all the time.
do the same thing that Christians and gambling dens do use positive re-enforcement.
You could have tried telling you sister all the things that were worth living for before she killed herself, and if you have any respect for her that's what you should be saying to those who are suicidal now.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
A very warped perspective holds that life is sacred and should be preserved at all costs. These people would build some device to escape until after the last star has winked out of the universe.
... he died.
Another perspective holds that life is nasty, brutish, short and essentialy worthless, which explains people blowing themselves (and usually others) up in modes of public transportation; usually for the greater glory of something promising "eternal life amid fields of ripe virgins."
The problem is that we as a society don't, for the most part, deal well with death. We don't accept it as inevitable. And we don't grant any right to a dignified, quiet, proper exit.
While I don't see that as an option for now, I had a friend who opted NOT to continue treatment for his cancer.
He went out quietly and with dignity. Yes it hurt. But its an existential hurt. It would have happened sooner or later and my hurt is not as bad as his own was.
In the end we all have to go.
I hoist a glass to his memory every once in a while. That's the best any of us can hope for. He lived, loved, was loved and then
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
And some bastard gets to go to lunch while you go in a "fausse comune".
You can win, you can't break even and you can't even quit the game.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Do they
* Hold your immediate family accountable (Criminally?)
* Levy fines against the spouse/children? * Put a lien against the dead guy's property
* Arrest your corpse and beat it until they extract a confession
Actually making the completion of suicide illegal is yet another laughable event in the history of mankind.
- Just my $0.02, take with a grain of salt, your mileage may vary.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe free speech is actually a right here in Australia. IANAL, but I remember my history teacher, who also taught political and legal studies said it wasn't actually a basic right under our constitution.
Now, we always act as if we have it (all the american law shows we have would make us think we have the same constitution), and I'm yet to encounter an issue of the government not allowing free speech. But I believe the queen, (or her representative, the governer general, who generally just does what the prime minister says) can allow limitations to the freedom of speech. I know during one of the world wars they banned the use of the word "sausage" among others, because it was too German.
Not sure on all of this, so correct me if I'm wrong.
Ok, I understand yank (that would be me if I'm correct) but, what in the heck is a pom? Just so you don't think I'm lazy, I did google it but I only learned of Pepco inc (whatever the hell that is), wonderful fresh pomegranites and juices, parking meters and cheerleaders. Please help out an ignorant yank and tell me what a pom is so I can stop wondering all day.
Until they re-instate slavery, you are a liability.
You salary is paid out of the expense side of the balance sheet. Maybe some of the crap you buy get to go on the asset side for a while but you are a liability.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
For some reason if some social engineering law comes out (or tightening the screws on the public domain) it seems to eminate from Australia. So much for democracies automatically being bastions of freedom.
"Remember Kids: Rippy the Razor says its down the block, not across the street!"
And to give credit to the artist:
"Read Something Positive"
3 degrees of separation from Vladimir Putin
I live in Perth in Australia. I was talking to one of my friends tonight, and one of his friends from school committed suicide on Monday.
This is tragic in itself, but knowing how so many people here use blogs and livejournals (especially students around this age, only one year younger than me), the information about this spread incredibly quickly. Within 12 hours probably half the students in perth knew, and not from the mainstream media. The combination of the school gossip-line and the internet allow news of things like this to spread very fast.
Of course, the problem we have is not that the news spread, but that others may be encouraged to do it. I believe my goverment is right in trying to limit the information you can get on suicide by searching the internet. You know how easy it is to go from any webpage you're on to a google search for something, especially for a student whose grown up using the internet.
Here's the question? Is it worth the risk of people reading a suicidal persons livejournal, and then, depressed by the entry, search the internet for methods of suicide, possibly to use on themselves? I don't see it as unlikely. I jump through web pages from journal entries all the time, except my searches are more likely to do with linux or web design. But it could easily happen with suicide. I have no problem with them imposing this ban.
Of all the advice and ramblings in this sub-thread (from the "you're a selfish turd for having/airing your thoughts" to the "me too, and then some!" posts), this one poster seems to have both a good attitude (the "make someone ELSE some lemonade out of the lemons life has handed YOUR family" attitude) AND a helpful outlook on a situation that has only failed to touch the truly fortunate among us. Kudos.
I know that you're not the one advocating censorship, but I hope you'll excuse me if nitpick on your blaming it on the Internet anyway. Because while you don't advocate censorship, it's _the_ kind of rationalization that gets others to advocate it.
I find the "I am quite confident that I would never have attempted suicide if I didn't have access to the Internet" statement to be at best a particular case. Wouldn't you? If you were at the depression stage where you curled up on the floor, and found relief in visualizing your own suicide, I don't think you were that far from making that step. With or without Internet. Maybe _you_ wouldn't have nevertheless, but a lot of other people snap at _much_ lower stress levels. Again, with or without Internet.
Thing is, people haven't started committing suicide when they got Internet. It has happened for thousands of years before computers. It also happened just as well in countries in Eastern Europe during communism, where noone had Internet and only a handful had computers at home at all.
What's different? A lot of those did it all wrong, and ended up crippled. And more depressed than before, typically. Dunno if that counts as an improvement.
Look at your own first paragraph. _How_ and _why_ did you know, for example, that slitting your wrists can destroy your tendons? I'll tell you why: because information about suicide was freely available.
Now picture a perfectly policed society, where noone's allowed to talk about what works and what doesn't in a suicide, and noone does. Will that stop people from trying? Nope. But they'll pick their "info" from movies and novels, and end up crippled.
Like they'll think that cutting one's wrists is some 100% effective thing, because some novel has a suicide like that in it. (A certain Dean Koontz novel comes to mind.) Except they'll just cripple their hands, and have trouble even finding work after that. (Picture having to type like that. Heck, even operating a cash register at McDonalds would be a pain.)
Or they'll jump off the house and just end up in a wheelchair. One of mom's co-workers was crippled because he jumped off a window, and not even a high enough one.
Or they'll shoot themselves in the head, and just end up paralyzed. Very conscious, just paralyzed. And if that doesn't get one more depressed than they started, I don't know what will.
So basically I think that there is a lot of good too in that abbundance of information. It keeps people from doing it all wrong.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Some people need to be killed. By the state. It's not fascism, it's justice. You can't have a functional society if it allows people to wage the worst kind of crimes against their fellow citizens and walk away after token amounts of time behind bars (often to do the same crime again) - or walk on technicalities. The people who have been victimized, and their families, friends and neighbors won't feel safe, secure, or fully able to pursue their dreams with that kind of fundamental betrayal of any real consequence or retribution for the attacker. They will feel frustrated, angry, and completely disillusioned of the system. And what you will eventually get from that kind of society is a totalitarian regime that is truly and deeply fascist supported and put in place by the masses of disillusioned retribution seekers who will be easily swayed by the promise of justice.
Even a little bit of history will clearly show that nearly every fascist regime started out by simply promising to restore order and hold people accountable for crimes they should have been punished for. Whether or not it was true, or the people they punished actually deserved it is irrelevent. All you need is an overwhelming feeling that _someone_ needs to be punished because you're tired of hearing about criminals walking free, and to believe that the dictator your about to put in place can do it.
Please commit suicide!
Not illness, just condition - youth... immaturity, belief in simplicity, black and white, "now is how it is always", "nothing to see here", "I've seen it all", "oh, I am sooo old, no need to live further, for I have seen it all" and such toughts that sometimes plague inteligent young people.
..., southern?).
According to your description, she was obviously angry at the moment and acted impulsively. As the youngest child in a family she was probably generally untollerant to stress (you said: spoiled), perhaps even passive aggresive (the other, darker side of strong and supportive family background - emotional blackmail works, one learns to use it for punishment of loved ones). The anger response may run in your family, since that is how you feel now about her. This may be coming from your cultural herritage (European
You all will have to get over that. What You describe about Your family at present is sense of guilt, even there is none. My guess is that too much talk with her would have only made her angrier.
This loss could, but not nescesarily would, had happen in this part of her life in some other form - car accident or something, but you all would be a little bit less hurt then you are now. The true nature of event would be the same - accidental. Some years from now, she wouldn't ever consider suicide.
This guy who helped very old patients to commit suicide.
The authorities couldn't charge him for assisted suicide. So he said: "Hey, why don't you charge me for murder?" So they did. And he got jailed.
Now this case is similar. Publishing suicide info is helping people to commit suicide. But this time we're not talking about euthanasia. We're talking about mostly kids with problems at home. Is it legal to assist in the murder of someone just because he's having temporary problems (which can be solved with therapy, mostly family therapy sessions)?
So I'm in favor of this law. First sign of sanity in a world filled with twisted laws.
Personally, information on illegal activities can serve a useful purpose. I personally think that recreational drug use is fine, so long as the user doesn't harm anyone other than themself. When I was in college, I pondered the wisdom of trying LSD or X. As the web was pretty new in those days (early '90s), good info was hard to find, though usenet was -- and still is -- a good resource. I stumbled onto hyperreal.org and spent many nights reading up on thorough summaries of the 2 drugs as well as people's experience with them.
The archive today is even better. I never knew that nutmeg was hallucinagenic. :)
In the end, I decided against trying either drug. The strongest thing in college I ever did was Everclear. But at least I was able to make an *informed* decision, for myself. Governments have no right to take that ability away from me.
Method of processing duck feet
The document you linked to is 10 years old, and the text you cited is older still. I searched the online version of the current Northern Territory "Crimes Act", and attempted suicide is NOT a crime any more.
Then you die
I note how this minister talks about how it won't suppress free speech or be targeted to certain groups that discuss the subject. Then what on earth is such a law needed for? Because there is a type of speech that they do not like and want to suppress it or target a certain group that subject and they need a law to do so. This is not a law to target people handing out razors. This is not a law to target people who are offering to use the razors on others. This is a law to target those who say (print) something theose who want the law do not like. Thus it is, pure and simple, a law of censorship, a targeting of speech based on the content of that speech in an attempt to ban it. That makes it a restriction on free speech no matter how they want to spin it.
Paul Robinson
The lessons of history teach us - if they teach us anything - that nobody learns the lessons that history teaches us.
death.
Seriously, though, if one has no control over how or when they end their life, what rights do we really have?
The lawyer/client conferances must be some thing to see , when someone gets charged with committing suicide.
The big flap here is that someone arranged to cover the Golden Gate Bridge with HDTV digital cameras and now has nineteen suicides recorded. He's planning a theatrical release as a documentary.
As a former crisis intervention counselor, I cringe every time I see a discussion like this about suicide because such discussions tend to perpetuate dangerous myths. You should never, ever use dependents of a suicidal person as extortion to force them to stay alive.
At the risk of slashdotting my own meager web site, here are the correct procedures for dealing with potential suicide. Dealing with Suicide Potential.
It is also rather interesting that such a law against suicide information could make my own page about it illegal.
this is loaner...my sig is in the shop
Why do you believe the bullshit about the "intent" of the law. The intent does not matter one bit in court.
Acutally, the logic was flawless. It's the assumptions that were flawed.
If murder was defined as "Killing a person other than oneself", the problem would have been avoided.
Happy people make bad consumers.
"Better make sure I do the job right the first time, you know, so I don't go to jail ..."
seeing as the Internet is a major contributing factor to depression and suicide nowadays.
Yes, it's funny how it wasn't a factor before it existed.
I'm sure it's a function of the internet and not, you know, coincidental.
You can't take the sky from me...
Problem?
I do believe that head removal is fatal.
That's what you wanted, right?
'But shooting yourself IS painless and peaceful'
unless you fuck up, then your well fucked and only have half a face, to shoot yourself properly you need to do it Chinese execution or slauter house style, gun barrel at the back of the neck taking out the brain stem first, almost instant and painless death (far 'kinder' than anything in the US)
Or, you could find your nearest smack head, buy a shit load of smack and jack-it (or plug it if you don't like needles), what's the worst that can happen? you waste some money, have a good time and make a junkie friend.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
And by professional help, we mean Kevorkian. Get your down-and-out self jumping off a tall building. You're not going to get missed in line at the store or in traffic. You're wasting time posting nonsense on slashdot. You could be breathing deeply with your head in the stove, what the hell are you waiting for?
The only crime you can be fined for when executed unsuccessfully
In Australia it is illegal to commit, or attempt to commit suicide.
Would some ausie enlighten me on how the former crime is prosecuted. Do they have special coffins with metal bars or something?
It is NOT illegal in Australia to attempt/commit suicide (Believe me, I would know.). I believe what the government(However misguided) is trying to do is stem the tragic suicide of young people in mostly our country areas, where suicide is the major cause of death (after car accidents) for males between the ages of 18 and 25. Yes it is silly legislation, you dont need the internet to work out how to kill yourself. BJ
We must stop it! Dead people often don't pay their fair share of taxes.
In Australia it is illegal to commit, or attempt to commit suicide
So is it a capital offense to attempt to commit suicide? Does such an attempt automatically get you the death penalty?
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
It's understandable that governments try to limit this kind of information, because it means fewer taxpayers!
Except for Attempted Murder, Attempted Robbery, etc...
In university, my then girlfriend and I were just partying around res. For whatever reason (probably me), she got in a bad mood and felt the night was ruined for her and that she'd go to bed (around 11). I says, "Fine, but I'm staying out some more." It turned out that our little group ended up having a lot of fun and it was one of the highlights of that year. So I go back to her cause I'm sleeping at her place, and I tell her about the great times she missed, at which she got even more angry than before.
So that's my take on suicide. If you leave the party early, you don't know what you're going to miss. You can tolerate being in a bad mood now and ride it out and have a great time later, or you can end your suffering now, and then suffer a lot more later.
I figure, if your life sucks, do something about it and make your life better. If life for everyone sucks, do something about it and make everyone's life a little better. If you're determined to believe that your life will suck forever, make someone else's better. You've got potential to do great things, whether big or small, and throwing away that potential is selfish.
You must realize that committing suicide is not just killing yourself, it means hurting a lot of other people too. Your death may be painless for you, but it won't be painless for anyone else. There're far too many inconsiderate dicks in this world. I figure that you can either spend your life making yourself happy (a person), or making everyone else happy (many people). Generally the second implies the first. The only way anyone should be allowed to kill himself is if no one knew he was alive in the first place, which means no one is allowed to kill himself.
If you feel like you're at the bottom, like you couldn't feel any worse, then help other people feel better, by being kind, by doing some humanitarian volunteering, by helping little old ladies cross the street. Your life is worth nothing anyway right? So what have you lost if you give it away?
Exactly. Governments have for a long time promoted population growth because then those at the top get to cream off more...well...cream. In these relatively resource scarce times some governments have realized that maximum population growth is suboptimal, e.g. China. But most countries still offer financial incentives for having children, usually in the form of tax benefits. (Also in other forms, eg. in the US childless people pay health insurance premiums that subsidise the cost other other people having children even though having a child is elective.)
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
I think this is generally how internet/computer legislation works in Australia:
1. Something happens (suicide, rape, shooting etc)
2. Outraged parents discover that X was playing/reading/watching something called Y
3. Whore politician decides that one parents disgust at what 'kids are doing these days' could be used for political gain.
4. Attempted banning of Y
Actually thats how it works in most countries including the US, UK etc. the issue is with having two dicks involved in the process - the parent and the politician, mixing two dicks in politics is what causes laws to be strict.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
If you're contemplating suicide, or even would like to know more about this taboo subject, check out fiercegoodbye.com. My dad produced and directed this show that takes a decidedly faith-based perspective on it. There's also stories on the site from people giving their own suicide attempts. The show aired on the Hallmark channel, and also ABC TV. You may have seen it, or may have a family member that's seen it.
Neutiquam erro
I am rarely serious on here but here it goes:
Just two things.
1) Just recently, I think it was in Canada (not 100%), where a man informed his friends, family and police that he was going to commit suicide. This was partially a protest or way of promoting euthenseia (spelling whatever). Anyway what it came down to is that he had terminal cancer. Was going to die anyway. For sure. Very painfully. He decided to kill himself as he still had the option to. If he let himself decline due to cancer he would be fucked as at somepoint he would no longer be able to do it on his own, and (at least in this country, probably most) it would be illegel for his doctor to help him in this way. From what I read his friends/family were not thrilled with the decision, but understood, and respected that decision.
2) That said I read most of the big posts, and everyone seems to be arguing if depressed if suicide should be promoted (or help available out there to who wants it)... I think that is silly. What if you were dying from a terminal illness? That is extreemly painfull, and takes its sweet time. (Not to get into the whole euthenasia discussion) Assuming it is illegal for a doctor or someone to help you commit suicide, I think I would like to see what options would be available to me. Granted this is a very last resort and not to be taken lightly.
I think this comes down to two principles: one is the fact that death is so final. Like capital punishment mistakes can be made, and there is no recourse. The other is the fact of coupibility (again with the spelling). Basically if someone is depressed or mentaly not there, are they capable of making these decisions for themselves. While someone could also make a very logical valid arguement to end ones life due to pain and suffering. You could also argue that someone under that kind of duress is unable to think in clear and concise terms.
Anyway it is really silly to make suicide illegal that is just dumb (it may be the case in Canada as well I am not sure). I also think that censoring informaion on how to do it painlessly or quickly or whatever is also silly. I can understand that you do not want to promote it or make it an easy choice for someone, but there is still a vaild use or need for it out there. I think the smartest thing to do would be to consult with your doctor, but because of various laws and perhaps ethics, doctors may feel obligated to prevent you, inform authorities, etc.. so who knows.
Anyway it goes beyond saying that it is a more complex problem than saying suicide is bad and information about it should be banned.
Of course after all this I didn't RTFA so it may be saying that information like that should only be controlled by certain groups like doctors and such....
I would just like to think that if I was in a situation of terminal painful death suffering, with basically no life before the end anyway. That I might be able to find help to end it mercifully would be nice. My body my choice kind of thing... pro-choice I guess. Mind you I think evaluation and discussion would be needed with doctor, friends/family etc...
What a horrible discussion topic eh? Needed, but horrible just the same.
And yes ok maybe I lied about there being just 2 things...
Anyway that is my thoughts.
Ok the above subject is just a attention getting but there is a deaper point. If i'm dying of cancer and the only way to stay alive and not be in *too* much pain is to be on a morphine drip. Damit! it's a free country let me go with diginity!
Free kevorkian !
I have read most of the post here and there is not even one that say one can choose to die because one want to not because one is in pain or have no future or whatever. As one who by definition has free will, one should have the choice to exist or not. No one have the choice to be borned in this world, but one can refuse to be in this world. This is the ultimate choice of free will.
The will to will itself to not exist.
The power of death is powerfull and there are those who dare not touch it will conjure many things to scare people. I respect those who have the will to conqure life-death than those who sheepishly let life-death happens to them. The strong one who can face death-prison should not be called fool or selfish. The strong one like Martin Eden in Jack London's Martin Eden is whom I respect.
"If you're not [particular Christian denomination or sect], you're going to hell."
I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. so I ran over and said "stop! don't do it!"
"Why shouldn't I?" he said. I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!" He said, "Like what?" I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?" He said, "Religious." I said, "Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?" He said, "Christian." I said, "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?" He said, "Baptist!" I said, "Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?" He said, "Baptist Church of God!" I said, "Me too! Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?" He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God!" I said, "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?" He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915!" I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off. - Emo Philips
Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
Now I can't read up on how to shoot myself in the head... (Oh wait, guns are outlawed down under now, right?) So now I can't read up on how to jump off a building. (Are tall buildings still legal in Australia?) Rope? Knives? Cannons? Elaborate schemes involving pulleys, counterweights, a rabid squirrel, and just the right amount of acorns that will fit in your rear end?
Anyone who can't successfully commit suicide is either too dumb to live, or doesn't really want to die. Now THAT'S irony.
And they said zombies weren't real!
So your contention is that the only two choices people have in life are a) 2.3 kids and a life in suburbia or b) death? You might want to read this.
In my view, there are very few, if any, reasons to kill one's self. Depression is certainly not one of them - it's a disease that's very treatable with drugs and psychotherapy.
Sean
Of course, the best thing about suicide is that you'll never regret doing it!
I used to be severely depressed (and the word suicide crept into my thoughts a lot). Then I bought a convertible sports car and it totally changed my outlook on life.
:-) vroooom!
A $20k car is the way to go to cure depression. And it's much more fun than suicide.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Of course suicide is a selfish act. It is putting your own feelings of frustration, helplessness, or general lack of other options ahead of those who love you, care about you, want to help you, and generally want you to stay alive.
And of course telling someone that they should not commit suicide is selfish. It puts your own desire that a person stay alive ahead of that person's feelings of frustration and unhappiness with life.
I don't see either side as right or wrong, but both should consider the other side. The feelings of those who care about a person considering suicide should be a factor in their decision (but not the blanket "feelings" of an organization). Those feelings may be small in comparison to the prospect of carrying out the rest of a life that one considers to no longer have value. But a person making that decision has to understand that it does not just affect themself.
I didn't want to make my post any longer but I've had success with drugs. Lithium didn't do it, or enough to keep my life stable enough to keep my head on straight, but Depakote did. (In fact, Depakote got me off caffine because it treated the migraines that also runs in my family). Then again, there was little (no) attempt to educate me in my illness. I've suffered for 8+ years before I really knew what I was up against (like the life sentence and the chance of more episodes as time goes on, no one told me the extremes I would face until it was too late.)
However, the system I had to deal with to get those drugs was horrible. I know for a fact that it is easier to secure pain medications (doctor friend sees "drug seekers" a lot) and lie your way into a Methadone prescription in this town. Our public health system is in shambles from my point of view.
My illness, if not properly treated, can be a even larger burden on everyone as a whole. Tax dollars are already being put aside - they told you it was for people who are sick and poor or that it would go to people who can't work and need to take medications daily...
Well, you were lied to. Even worse than the fact that the money never made it into my hands is the fact that these programs are labeled failures. The main barrier to my medication is the price tag of the pills along with the price of doctor visits (and now we are talking hundreds of dollars an hour). Once you lose everything it's hard to come up with thousands of dollars to invest in yourself. Meanwhile everyone else in society, even my close friends and family, see my life as a wash. No matter the fact that I rarely even intrude into their lives.
Medicaid, rather my local outlet actually cut off my benefits because I didn't make it to their 5-sec, prescheduled, mandatory, "walk through the metal detectors and back onto the bus because we don't actually need anything we like to do this so that we can cut off benefits for no reason, I'm sure you understand with so many minorities on it we couldn't let them live off of us tax payers" routine...
So in the matter of weeks I was back to square one. I've since received my Associates Degree and really can't do anything with it because I can't even live by a hour to hour schedule.
At this point I don't support Medicaid. Bush has won, I'm going to become a terror^H^H^H^H^HRepublican now so that I can experience what it is like to take millions of peoples lives and loved ones away!
U! S! A!, U! S! A!, U! S! A!, U! S! A!...
Get your Unix fortune now!
Suicide is legal in Victoria, the state where I live in Australia. It is illegal to assist anyone with suicide. It is legal to use 'reasonable force' to prevent someone from commiting suicide.
I'm not a lawyer, but I checked into this quite carefully some while ago in the planning stages of suicide. (I planned for every little thing except, in hindsight, suicide not working.)
Here I am still, and further evidence that it's not illegal is that when the police arrived Monday (I had sent a letter for them to come get my body, timed to arrive on the Monday, two days after the deed) there was no mention at all of any crime, no warning, nothing.
I spent some months in a locked psychiatric ward after that, and let me tell you all that those aren't the kind of places where depressed people get any better.
On the (kind of) funny side, I had to call my mother from hospital and ask her to buy me underwear. I am 30. Thinking along the lines of "no-one's gonna want to be sorting through my underwear after I'm dead", I had thrown it all away. (I also left a great job and cleaned out my great house after cancelling the lease).
Good thing I don't live in Australia... 'Kill yourself.' is practically a catchphrase of mine... (What can I say? I'm surrounded by morons.) ^^;
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
bless you, my friend; you articulated perfectly what i had been struggling to say. i'm only sorry i used my mod points on other stories before i saw your post.
if i'm a grammar nazi, you're an illiteracy nazi.
Wait.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks