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Identity Theft Victim Gets Last Laugh
Ovid writes "Being a bit of a hypocrite, I sometimes whine about privacy in my blog. I do, however, try to be careful about not letting anyone get information about me they shouldn't and I rarely, if ever, use a credit card online. This is why I was surprised to find out one morning that identity thieves had racked up thousands of dollars one two of my credit cards. By early afternoon, I caught them and the police arrested them."
The canadian mounties have a new branch devoted to identity theft and they solved my case in a week. They are amazing.
For those who haven't seen it (Like anyone in this crowd wouldnt have seen this), I'd suggest reading the P-P-P-Powerbook Story as a great compliment. These stories of Scammers getting Scammed never get old.
> and I rarely, if ever, use a credit card online.
Don't you know whether you do or not?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
never use a card when cash will get the job done. It might sound "cute", but it's the best way to protect your privacy - not to mention your bank account.
My digital rights don't need management.
If you just send your full name, birth date, address, social security number, credit card numbers with expiration dates to securemyidentity@gmail.com, we will monitor your credit record and make sure that you never have to worry about your good credit record ever again.
Cash can be stolen and used easily. Cards can be stolen and used, but you can get the money back. Big difference.
Cards are way more convenient, less hassle in the long run, and let you get an accurate tally of what you spend. Cash just means constant trips to the ATM, spending money in dribs and drabs and forgetting about it, and the risk of getting mugged when you flash it too much.
about privacy has come to an end?
The sheep don't care about the affairs of the shepherders until the wolf gets by...
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
You might have outsmarted them this time, but it's never a good idea to gloat. This is something you'll forget in time, but they're going to remember it for a lot longer than you are because they'll be the ones doing time for the crime. If they got really rough sentences because of you and spent several years in the slammer as a result, ten years later they could come looking for you to take away your life. Your credit cards would be the least of your problems.
My digital rights don't need management.
In a situation like this where you know the culprit is standing only a few meters away from you its so tempting to confront the thief. I admire his resolve.
I never really thought how much power you the credit card holder have in these situations. A few proactive measures can go a great deal further than a phone call to a dusty beurocrat.
this is wnhy you get a prepaid visa or mastercard for online purchases. id rather spend the 30 minutes to put the cash on the card and buy something online with it than than let some druggy scum waltz off with my hard earned money. http://www.netspend.com/ Netspend offers inexpensive prepaid visa and mastercards that are useable anywhere.
... i would have found it very difficult to resist the urge to take some very gratifying physical revenge on the perps. bravo to ovidius. this won't stop identity theft, but it surely promotes a bit more vigilance on the potential victims ...
nothing worth possessing isn't possessed. or something.
It seems a tad arrogant to declare "I caught them and had them arrested by afternoon." Why? Because if not for Discover, and Visa's fraud-alert services, you wouldn't have been the wiser for quite a while longer - days or weeks, perhaps. You didn't do this by yourself. To imply otherwise denies the actions of many people working behind the scenes to make sure that when this stuff happens, it doesn't ruin innocent people's lives.
My digital rights don't need management.
No joke. I would have gutted those two like pigs. Throat to groin. Wouldn't have thought twice about it. Not any issue at all.
Ovid, you are a sane man.
* hey are you Ovid from Perl Monks & the Perl Monks Seti team?
This
How do we know this actually happened? People concoct amazing stories all the time.
What a great story!
More evidence that credit card signatures are useless.
Ludwig Wittgenstein
Calling the cops three times on your cellphone: 68 cents.
Driving to Denny's at 96 miles per hour: $1.10 in gas.
Seeing identity-thieving bastards hauled off in handcuffs before your very eyes: priceless.
There are some things money can buy. For everything else, there's adrenaline and instincts.
I've lost about $80 in cash theft in my life.
I've lost $0 in credit card theft, but dealing with the attempts has cost me quite a bit more in time: more than 100 times as much, in time and lost income, than the $80 cash loss.
Cash means more privacy, fewer entries to reconcile, and less paper to shred.
In fact, I'd like to add that companies like paypal penalise those who get frauded by others. In one case, a friend of mine was "paid $1000" over paypal, and a week later, paypal took it away and charged him $500 for a really dodgy reason. I constantly hear of such cases over paypal and the end result is that the frauder wins in one way or another.
Whats even worse is that I have never seen any online store do a basic check to see if users were on a proxy or not, which could easily help reduce fraud if they did.
Unrelated, if you want to see just how much credit card companies care about fraud, a rather funny link can be found at http://www.zug.com/pranks/credit_card/. It explains why I dont have a credit card...
he's happy today but just wait until tomorrow when a group of street punks beat him and take his dungeon master's guide. :(
The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
This guy acts like they were stealing the money from him
Well strangely enough, with the new chip-and-pin system they've just brought in in the UK, if the vendor doesn't accept c&p (i.e. they just take a signature), they are liable. (Although the card companies appear not to be enforcing that too strongly just yet since they can't distribute the necessary card readers fast enough.)
They closed that account and notified me immediately without authorizing any sales. I called the credit card company and found that in fact there had been three or four transactions on my card which I hadn't made. They weren't for a lot: there was one for a tank of gas, and the total was for less than a thousand dollars. The credit card company took care of the charges but seemed totally uninterested in pursuing the matter, even after I provided them contact information at Amazon. Amazon could not give me the information directly, but were anxious to provide it to the issuing bank. and urged me to contact my local law enforcement agencies.
Stupidly, I didn't contact local law, but kept badgering the issuing bank. Finally I gave up and cancelled the account. The original card had of course been cancelled immediately when I reported the problem, but I no longer had any confidence in the bank.
It's pretty bad when Amazon does a better job of tracking my credit card than the issuing bank does. Of course, I still do business with Amazon and I don't do business with that bank so maybe there's a moral there somewhere.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
"I do, however, try to be careful about not letting anyone get information about me they shouldn't and I rarely, if ever, use a credit card online."
If you go to any store or use your credit card just about anywhere, it's on the Internet regardless of if you actually go to a Website to buy something.
When you swipe your card to get groceries, where is that data sent? How does it get there? Through the Internet. It stays on a company database like anywhere else.
I don't use my credit card on "shady" Websites, but I do realize when I use my card just about anywhere, that data is sent over the Internet and into a database somewhere where someone savvy enough could get access to it.
It's for this reason I try and not use my debit card often as if someone takes my credit info and buys things, I'm not responsible for it. they haven't taken any money form me. However, if I use a debit and they take money, then that is money I have lost and it is much harder to get back.
"If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer
People sure have been jumping on this identity theft band wagon for about the last year. This isn't identity theft, it is Credit Card Fraud.
Identity theft would be if I opened up a credit card using your social or if I obtained a loan using your social.
Credit Card Fraud is stealing your credit card information and using it.
Too bad the media just keeps misleading people to believe the two are one and the same.
Oh my!
... he goes dark.
How did this guy resist popping the punk in the mouth? I would've knocked his fronts out. He had a perfect sucker punch opp - back to him sitting down *_BANG_* fucker sees a flash of white and then *_POW_*
I'm not normally a violent person, but this would've been perfect. The cops are already on their way. $20 to the manager says he didn't see anything but blood and teeth on the floor.
Looks like this guy caught his own criminal. Unlike the rest of you lazy slobs.
Sigs are like bumper stickers.
...they mount Trojan horses, right? (ba-doom-ching)
Seriously, that is amazing. I gotta move there; I prefer the CN over the Empire, and I'd rather not have an easy-to-get number used as my very identification. It's too easy here; I don't know about where you are (but clearly they gave you some nice help kicking identity-thief ass).
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
An emergency responder had another party dispose of needles in a coke bottle?
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Having dealt with and watched friends deal with the fallout from identity theft, I can tell you it can be pretty time-consuming, especially when you don't know what else of yours the thieves might have stolen (or worse, circulated to their peers).
His half-day of detective work might have saved him a week of phone calls and hassle trying to get the matter fully resolved.
There are no karma whores, only moderation johns
And all I can say is ... "SHRED THOSE CHECKS, DUMMY!". I have a discover card and get those all the time. I *Do NOT* toss them out. They get shredded in about 1 million little pieces.
I shred just about anything that might have any information about me, my family, or my bills or creditors/debtors. This guy coulda saved himself some grief. The kid prolly saw him check his mail from a PO box and then shake his head and toss the checks in the trash, where he retrieved them.
In fact, it bugs me Discover sends me those checks all the time. I never use them, probably never will, and wish they wouldn't send them so frequently.
FLR
I spend a lot of time on the road, so she audits the hell out of my cards. Turns out there were a couple charges at a local hotel - weird, because it was not anything I would book! Weirder yet when she realized it was her card. My wife's credit card info got swiped at Target.
Anyhow, the way the scam worked is they booked the room with hotels.com using my bride's card info. They checked in, tried to pay with a card that was expired (or did not work - they were not clear on that). When the hotel attempted to charge for the room service and the time they were there, it defaults to the card used to make the reservation. Card canceled, new one issued, no cost to us - but dang, you really have to watch your statements.
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
Come on, now.
Using a credit card online is much safer than using it at any restaurant in which someone takes it out of your sight, using it at a store at which an imprint is taken, or giving its number to someone on the telephone.
I do all of these, and like the vast majority of everyone else, I've never had a problem.
Many, if not most, online merchants, don't ever store your credit card number. The exceptions would be those who have a recurring charge capability and those who explicitly have the capability to store it.
Being aware of the security of your information is fine, but rejecting convenience without adquately weighing the relative risk is damned silly.
This isn't to say that the original poster doesn't have good practices when it comes to using his credit card at restaurants as well. However, nearly everyone I know who won't use a credit card online will pony it up at a restaurant without a second thought.
now go upstairs and help your mom with the dishes.
The author doesn't mention how they got his credit card info. I wonder if he even knows. I would imagine that since the crooks had one of this credit card checks they probably stole his mail. If so, I wonder if they hang around his house and maybe that's why he recognized one of them. Looks like he's got mail fraud on top of identity theft.
As a former scammer and hacker turned security consultant... I have to say that it is surprisingly FREAKING EASY!!! to get someones CC numbers... from social engineering tactics, dumpster diving, or just slight of hand / eye tricks... its possible to get almost anyones card number these days.
Maybe not a single person as a target mind you, but valid card numbers none the less.
Once you get the card numbers youll also find that it is stupidly simple to make large purchases with them. Online buys can be made to drop houses for obscurity... and in person purchases can be made with a $300 3M card writer and a good inkjet printer and a bit of photoshop to create a physical card...
People NEVER verify the card holders name to the ID these days so having the actual card stolen from someone is just about as safe. (When they did attempt to ID me I would claim that I didnt bring my wallet, just the card and they would let me make a $599 purchase at best buy).
I commend him quick thinking and 'dumb luck' in your of your credit attackers... I have to say that if some people had been as vigilant I may have had their fate.
On the flip side of the coin, While I once had a stack of 50 valid and working credit cards obtained from one method or another... I now manage and secure online companies from attack and fraud using counter techniques which I used to skirt in MY efforts. I now have access to between 75 and 100K customer's information which Is locked down tighter than Fort Knocks if I do say so myself... not that this makes up for any of my past exploits, but to me, its a way of atoning.
The Code Ninja is swift with his tool, precise in his delivery, and deadly accurate in his execution.
That some kid stole a couple thousand dollars from Discover Card and some Visa merchant - so what? This guy acts like they were stealing the money from him.
Don't you get it? This isn't play money. It's real money that the merchants, banks, and card processors have to cough up. Where do you think it comes from? Higher merchandise prices (or, eroded retail margins, and fewer mom-and-pop retailers as a result), higher bank fees, and higher transaction fees. All of that, all of it, trickles down to the paying consumer in one way or the other.
Thieves like this are taking it from all of us, however indirectly. They're parasites. I completely tip my hat to someone who busted a couple of these punks while their greasy (stolen) Denny's breakfast was still impacting their short-term blood pressure. Truly delightful.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
...and if he was wrong? Nothing would have happened to the kids. But he was right and they were busted.
Know what I like about atheists? I've yet to meet one that believes God is on their side.
Last year Wells Fargo calls me. It seems some doofus used my Wells Fargo Mastercard to buy, among other things, $1000 in Victoria's Secret gift certificates from the VS Website. The expriation date was wrong, and the transaction flagged. Wells Fargo did NOT authorize the purchase, and I wasn't billed. (Other smaller purchases, under $50, had been authorized earlier in the day, but they were now being charged back since I said I didn't make them.) Bravo to Wells Fargo for being diligent about this.
Of course, I want to catch these shitheats. Victoria's Secret has their shipping address, so I think it should be pretty easy to get that address, call the police, and have justice done.
WRONGO!!
I call Victorias Secret. They say they can only give the shipping address out to a police officer/detective conducting an investigation, or at the request of the Credit Card company (Wells Fargo.). OK. Fine. They don't want vigilantes.
I call local PD. They say that since I didn't lose any money (WF blocked or refunded all charges) there was no crime for them to persue. If anyone lost money, Wells Fargo did. Call them and have them call police.
I call Wells Fargo. They say THEY didn't lose any money; they cancelled or blocked the charges. If anyone lost anything of value, it is Victorias Secret for (apparently) shipping out the gift certificates immediately without a valid payment now, or a valid expiration date eariler. They would need to call the Police to start an investigation.
"But I just called them! They don't care about who did this. They sent me to the local PD, and they sent me to you," I say. "I just want to know who did this. They have an address, but they'll only issue it to you or the PD."
The conversation took TWO more laps around these three parties before I gave up.
The story linked to in this post gives basically the same story in the sense that the local PD didn't give a shit about this crime in terms of investing ANY investigational effort. It was up to the poor victim to do all the legwork, and even THEN, the police seem like they take their sweet time getting there to catch the jerk-off criminals.
I bet the local DA pleads them down to nothing without a trial too.
In short, it seems that only determined application of stupidity on the part of credit card theives, along with an angry, lucky, motivated victom working hard at finding the theif, is the ONLY way these shitheads will ever get caught.
I don't even know why I work for a living...
At least in this case their cooperativeness was a good thing!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
They weren't stealing his money, they were stealing his time.
Seems to me he stole his own time. Unless you're talking about the 3 minutes he spent on the phone telling Discover card "no, I didn't make those charges".
Having dealt with and watched friends deal with the fallout from identity theft, I can tell you it can be pretty time-consuming,
Well, I don't know what you mean by "identity theft", since, I mean, you can't steal someone's identity. But I know someone who had his credit card number stolen, and it didn't take up very much of his time at all. The FBI caught the people, and the employees of the people wound up with the bill.
when you know the punishment they will receive is worse than you could ever personally inflict. you know, pound-in-the-ass prison and all that.
If you don't object to people stealing from big evil corporations, how can you reasonably object when they steal from you?
It's pretty easy, actually. It's called a double standard.
leave it to /. readers to get upset about credit card frauders getting caught.
Is what type of person steals 2 credit cards, racks up thousands of dollars in charges. Then proceeds to order breakfast from Denney's? Come on the meal is free live it up a little.
Well, if you believe his story (and I don't), then the kids were taken to jail in handcuffs on his say-so. I wouldn't call that nothing. But I'm more concerned about the fact that a description of the kids, their room number, their habits, etc., were all given to some random Yahoo who happened to have a credit card they used.
If you were smart you'd be worked up too. Because it's people who are stealing money like that that make busienss costs higher (when they have to pay back the credit card companies for fraudulent charges they have to make it up somehow).
Do you enjoy paying a "criminal tax" to keep some lazy bastard in a life of luxury? Because that's what your doing right now every time you buy something from somewhere that takes credit cards. Hopefully someone finds your CC number someday so you, too, can find just how unimportant the whole matter is.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
How is that scary? He had the credit card that was just used a few hours ago. He didn't just flash a credit card and tell them what the numbers were. Furthermore this was a frickin Dennys, not a sex shop. What's so private about the description of someone at a Dennys?
Are you really concerned that people might forge your credit card, then go around to restaraunts asking for descriptions of you? Your appearance isn't exactly private information, unless you wear a paper sack around your head. If you're really that paranoid just shouldn't even go outside.
AccountKiller
yeah, lets stamp 666 on everyone's foreheads so this never happens again, national id system is about the worst idea ever.
I would say that those RCMPs are great!
Unfortunately, most of the credit card holders,
and users, are south of the northern border.
Population differences (32 VS 375 Million)
also make a big difference. ID theft is so
very popular here in the USA just because it
is so easy to get away with: first the criminal
has to be caught, then the criminal has to be
prosecuted, and then the criminal has to be
convicted, and then the punishment has to be
adequate to deter such criminal activity.
Figures for the number of illegal aliens in the
USA range from 8 million (official figures that
have been massaged by political correctness) to
an estimated 28 million, based upon percentage
captured. Imagine a Canada whose population
were to double within a decade not being noticed.
Even the 8 million (low-ball) figure for illegal
aliens in the USA puts a severe strain on the
social safety net, and on crime fighting. Those
who have been able to successfully remain within
the USA the longest have done so by using the
best false identities, or backed up with the
help of government officials (at every level of
government).
It has only been post 9-11-2001 that pressure has
been applied to law enforcement and prosecutors
to actually enforce the law. It doesn't help
that the POTUS is the poster child for amnesty
for illegal aliens in the USA. So the taxpayers
of America are subjected to SS employees that
sell lists of SS numbers to the highest bidder,
DMV employees that earn an extra 2 to 5 thousand
USD per month under the table by creating good
IDs from bad basic documents, and everyone with
a computer, a scanner, and a laser color printer
tempted to suppliment their income by becoming
a fake ID provider.
Having CC companies monitoring "unusual" usage
of CC isn't enough by far. The punishment should
fit the crime, which in this case should be 2
years of hard (breaking big rocks into gravel)
labor PER INCIDENT. Even this penalty is less
that what I would impose (, so I guess it's a
good thing that I am not the judge in court.)
Come on!
'I rarely use my credit card online'
Like that matters in any way!
Why do so many people think online transactions are any less secure than any other kind of transaction?
Every time you use a card to order a pizza you are giving your name, card number and expirely date to some kid who may be in some gang for all you know, any time you use a card in a store the clerk could be double swiping it to copy the card info electronically or just copying the receipt information. Remember that time you didnt get your monthly bill? Surprise, some bastard stole your mail and has the card info.
Stop it already! If you use a credit card, you could have the info stolen, period!
George Bush + Linux = "I will not let information get in the way of the fight against Windows"
What's so surprising about that?
Nothing, really, I just think it would have made a neat story with a useful twist at the end.
At least in this case their cooperativeness was a good thing!
If you believe the story. I'm skeptical.
If the vendor is liable in the case of a fraudulent purchase, why don't they demand signitures? Sure it's a lousy security tool, but it's the only chance they have to spot a stolen card that could potentially cost them money.
sig
slashdotting your LJ
I'm not upset. I really don't care. Some guy stole some money from Discover Card. Some other guy caught them. The thief went to jail. This is news? Even if it were true, which I have my doubts about, so what?
I think it's interesting that so many people were willing to go to such lengths on the say-so of some random guy with a credit card. The fact that those people were willing to do that is precisely why credit card theft is so easy in the first place.
Actully, Visa and Mastercard cover the expenses lost to fraud to both customer AND the business that got frauded. One of the other two or maybe both, refuses to give compensation to the business, so they eat it out of their own pocket. That's one of the biggest reasons why Visa and Mastercard are ALWAYS accepted, Discover and American Express are less so.
Learn something new.
it's always good to hear someone tracking down their own criminals like this story. this is a prime case of "vigilante justice" being very appropriate - especially given that the police were reluctant to get involved _at_all_ until he had confirmed that both perps were in the building.
... i had a small online company try to defraud me last fall and tracked down the owner much the same. they wouldn't return phone calls or emails, so i took it into my own hands. through some dns whois queries, mapquest searches, reverse phone lookups and the like (all free, btw, because who wants to pay $40 just to have someone take all your fun :) and do it for you?) the short version is that i called his home phone number, then confirmed he was the owner of this particular business before railing on him for his poor service and demanding a full refund (which i received quickly thereafter). man, was this guy sure scared/surprised to get a call at his home number.
/.ers who have such an "opportunity."
on a tangent
moral of the story: i can relate the the ecstacy this guy must have felt when knowing you've had a hand in the takedown of someone who's done you wrong. i strongly recommend the experience to all
If it's no big deal, paste your name, CC number, expiry date, verification code, billing address and any other relevant information in a reply to this post.
If I did that I'd be negligent and the credit card company could sue me.
Well done man, but the syringe portion gave me a chill. The syringe part is more than just evidence...what the cop did was both illegal and insanely dangerous. "Sharps" are considered hazardous medical waste and in every state MUST be disposed of in a proper labeled container (NOT a Coke bottle.) They must be given to a company licensed to dispose of hazardous or medical waste and destroyed, usually in these massive incinerators. (I was a med student once...)
.45. Never had to fire a shot, but I was absolutely ready to drop all three of them and they knew it. The other time I just opened my vest to a knife wielding mugger, we both smiled and he ran off like Carl Lewis doing the 100. Protect yourself!
Ironic as this sounds, what the cop did with those sharps (syringes) was more dangerous than your identity theft. Most likely, the manager chucked the bottle in the trash, and those needles are possibly now being reused by some dumpster diving junkie. Who knows what viruses, bacteria, whatnot those kids had lurking in their blood.
I'm insanely proud of your victory but I gently suggest calling the Red Lion, and TELL them that 'dirty needles' are somewhere in their trash. Two asshole identity theives in jail is small change compared to a trash collector or Red Lion employee getting Lyme, AIDS or septicemia, and spreading it to his family.
Also, those guys know who you are, are obvious heavy druggies and probably don't like you very much right now. They'll be out one day. Consider a pistol permit. I ALWAYS carry, and that's saved my life twice. Get some professional training , and practice every week, too. My close scrapes: Three guys went at me with crowbars (carjacking attempt in a parking lot...liked my M3) and their eyes got as large as frisbees when in under half a second they saw the business end of my Les Baer
"The pie shall be cut in half and each man shall receive.....death. I'll eat the pie."
Why does everyone fear online shopping? A 128 bit encrypted site like Amazon is a hell of a lot safer than the mailbox sitting in my front yard. Am I wrong?
Booked into a hotel under one name and paying under another? The hotel didn't care? Yet fell over themselves to help the guy?
Police throwing away evidence?
Visa et al catching and cutting them off, but the thieves stay put?
Using the hotel computer?
Geez. Call Discover (or almost any other credit card company) and they will never send them again.
How is that scary? He had the credit card that was just used a few hours ago.
And how did they know he wasn't the one who stole it?
Are you really concerned that people might forge your credit card, then go around to restaraunts asking for descriptions of you?
No, but it's that kind of blind trust that is what makes credit card fraud so easy in the first place.
I think you have "thief" confused with thief. They really stole his money. And why wouldn't the people at Denny's help him? He has his credit card and ID to prove that he is who he says he is. If someone else used the same card number they obviously weren't supposed to.
That some kid stole a couple thousand dollars from Discover Card and some Visa merchant - so what? This guy acts like they were stealing the money from him.If someone stole your car, would you say, "So what? They're only stealing from the insurance company."? A defrauded man, his credit card companies, restaurant & hotel employees, and the police come together to arrest two thieves and somehow this is a bad thing? This is the way things should work, people taking responsibility and looking after their own interests and those of others.
I mean, whatever, how much food does Denny's throw away every day anyway?
Well, that's just stupid. Tell that to the waitress who served them and didn't get a dime when she could have gotten a real tip from non-criminals. Probably an overworked old lady who needed the money, too.
One thing that people should realize is that when an anonymous big corporation gets hurt, it's not really a corporation that's getting hurt. It's the stockholders. It's everyone that has a 401(k) or a mutual fund or any other diversified investment. These aren't rich day-traders, these are old people living off this money, or young people trying to save a few bucks for when they can't work any more.
What this guy did was every bit as noble as if he tackled a purse-snatcher. No, it's not his money, but it's someone's money, and that's a real, normal person just like you. He won't get a direct benefit, but he contributed to society.
Social scientists are inspired by theories; scientists are humbled by facts.
If the vendor is liable in the case of a fraudulent purchase, why don't they demand signitures?
Because the inconvenience of demanding signatures isn't worth the few dollars they lose every time someone buys a cheeseburger and fries and doesn't pay. It's the same reason they offer free refills and that if you complain about your order they give you a new one and don't even ask for the old one back.
Try to buy something expensive without a signature, on the other hand, and you won't get very far. In fact, when I buy something expensive on a credit card I usually am asked for ID.
awesome! you totally owned his ass. no need to post anonymous, makes it harder to mod up :))
and yes, he does desperately care. 13 comments proves it beyond all doubt.
I remember this one. I had a good laugh. The kind of stories that make you feel good (ala Gladiator's "I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next").
I hadn't read about the DDoS backfire and the fact that Jeff didn't give a sign of life since. Quite disturbing.
However, I personally don't think this story was true. It's just too cool to be true. Just like this very story.
perception is reality
I don't care about the incident itself (if it actually happened). I don't care that some credit card thief got caught. I enjoy arguing about it, but I don't care...
.... you USians never stop to amaze us.
In similar situations I just handed over my stuff.
Nobody was hurt, I was protected (insured) so I did not lose anything. One of the thieves was later caught.
With all due respect I think you USian guys should consider what firearms are doing to your society.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Its people like you that are happy to live in crap as you have no idea what being clean is. An opt-in PKI national ID system would solve many of these problems. You wouldnt be issued a number, you would have a public cert and a private key. It would be opt in for the morons like you that would fight it to their dieing breath until they saw how well it would work at which point you would scream at any friend, family member or stranger that didnt opt-in.
Banks do not send CC information over the Internet.
ATMs normally are on Intranets or private nets not connected to the net.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
You are so right. PKI doesnt work, what was I ever thinking. You use amazon, iTMS, online air travel.. of course you dont.. those insane people use PKI and well you know you can produce a secure system so why even try. Making a more delicate system so that real people will do real work is competly wrong headed. Hoping some airline screener will do their job is insane and forcing them to as we have no real other backup system is even worse. A hand full of random personal facts does not prove idenity but that is what we have today. When are you going to wake up ans see we have already have a national id system which is has all the flaws of a bad system and none of the protections of a good system.
Actually, it's Denny's food that Denny's has to cough up, and hotel space that...probably would have gone to waste anyway. And as for the Denny's food, I mean, whatever, how much food does Denny's throw away every day anyway?
When I cleaned out my refrigerator today I threw out some food that got shoved to the back and went bad. By your logic it would be okay for some guy to sneak into my house and steal food from my pantry because I waste some of my food. Oh, but wait. I'm a person, not a corporation. There goes your precious double standard again.
The $0.00000000001 trickles down to him isn't enough to justify wasting a few hours of his time trying to catch a thief. That's what the police are paid for.
Not all of us want to depend on the government to take care of our every need. Besides, if you read the article you would see that the police were in no hurry to do anything until he called and told them he knew exactly where they were right that moment.
Not from all of us. Just those of us who eat at Denny's, or pay exorbitant fees to Discover Card.
Or those of us who purchase products from merchants who accept Discover. Here's a dirty little secret: costs roll downhill to the consumer.
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." Col. Jeff Cooper
Actully, Visa and Mastercard cover the expenses lost to fraud to both customer AND the business that got frauded
Er... only if the merchant did every last little thing correctly. Otherwise, it's the merchant that eats it. Besides, there is no such thing as Visa/MC eating anything. They reflect the cost of doing that in the substantial fees they charge the merchants and other middlemen. They take no risks, financially, when you look at the big picture.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
I don't have an identity you insensitive clod!
TT
> > How is that scary? He had the credit card that was just used a few hours ago.
> And how did they know he wasn't the one who stole it?
And what if he was? He's not trying to use it, he's trying to track down the actual owner, so he can...do what, exactly? What evil thing is it that you're afraid might have happened here? Is he going to get his revenge because the credit limit was so low? I don't see the problem, sorry.
> it's that kind of blind trust that...
We don't know if it was blind trust. Maybe they asked to see his ID, and he just neglected to mention that minor detail. But whether they did or not, I still don't see the danger. Maybe I'm just not paranoid enough (wouldn't be the first time).
Really? That's true about privacy, and when I get around to laundering this pile of dirty money, that'll be great. But I think you're crazy regarding protecting your bank account (unless you mean from yourself, at which point some self-discipline would help).
You can't contest a purchase with cash. You don't get free product insurance with cash. You don't get a nice charge summary with cash. You don't have to go to an ATM or a bank to get your card, as you do with cash. Using cash doesn't help your credit rating, and should you ever want a better car or develop the desire to move out on your own, cash doesn't help develop a good credit rating.
I understand the card companies get a lot in profit from people, on average, for those services. But I don't pay them a thing, because I pay them off every month, on time. And since the credit card companies make it against the rules to pass on merchant fees (ie, no discount for paying cash), I figure why not take advantage of the situation?
That scam actually works.
This signature is part of a balanced post.
I'm surprised at just how perfectly this all worked out.
They happened to remember who picked up the order, based on the number? Perhaps the time (6AM), or what they ordered, was somewhat distinct, so I can see it. This is incredibly lucky.
The people at the hotel seemed abnormally helpful as well; I really wouldn't have been that surprised if they said, "Nope, don't know," and went about their business. Instead, they called employees at home. He just happened to get someone who knew exactly who they were, and their room number. They just happened to have used something with a traceable billing address.
Just as they were identified, they happened to come down.
Having your credit card stolen is unlucky, but if it ever happens to me, I hope I'm as lucky as this guy!
________________________________________________
suwain_2
You might want to learn to spell, and brush up on your grammar if you're going to refer to people as 'retarted', otherwise a phrase involving the words 'pot', 'kettle' and 'black' springs to mind.
Wrong answer. Thank you for playing. We have wonderful consolation prizes for you (or not.)
For what it's worth, and as I noted earlier in this thread, I'm actually fairly well-known in the Perl community. I'm a grant manager for the Perl Foundation, a scheduled speaker at the next OSCON, and an occasional technical book reviewer for O'Reilly. If I dared to create a lie this huge, my reputation would be ruined. I generally get job offers because of who I am. That would go away. Regardless of what you may think of my story, I'm not so stupid as to make this up.
They did have a photocopy of ID of one of the thieves. However, the registration (made through hotels.com) was still billed to me. And as for your info about the credit card companies, I know nothing about your experience, but it is vastly different from mine. If you have any credit cards, call and ask to speak to their fraud department (or, more likely, navigate through all of the damned menus they have.) I'm sure they'll be happy to set you straight.
First of all, anti-terrorism legislation requires hotels retain a photocopy of your driver's license. I find it highly unlikely that the hotel will accept a license in one name and payment via another name with only a credit card number.
Now maybe when you stay at The Hampton's Inn, or some other major chain they will always follow through on complying with regulations. But if you honestly believe low end, transient home hotels ask for ID you have obviously never been to one. Hell a lot of those places take cash, no questions asked.
--- I do not moderate.
At the expense of my Mod points, I must point out, sir, that you are wrong.
anti-terrorism legislation requires hotels retain a photocopy of your driver's license. I find it highly unlikely that the hotel will accept a license in one name and payment via another name with only a credit card number.
This is how businesses normally pay for rooms when employees go on trips. Most companies do not give a card with each employees name on it, unless they are of the "enterprise" level.
Second, credit card companies don't get details about a charge for 2-3 days after the charge is made, so there's no way that the CC company could have known that the charge was made at Denny's or what zip code that Denny's was in.
Ummmmmm. No. Credit card companies know about a charge the instant it is made. Otherwise there would be no way to deny the charge if the card has been canceled or expired. At least my credit card company (Wells Fargo) has all charges show up on the web interface within about three minutes of the charge being processed. Yes, I have timed it.
Also, batch processing of credit card transactions is not legal in the state of California. It would allow companies to have "mystery money" in their accounting that has been "paid" to them, but they have not yet retrieved from your account. I'm not sure if this is from California, but I'm sure there is very similar laws in the rest of the US. Also, these laws were not around two years ago.
My UID is prime and so is this number: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0.
Out of curiousity, do you have any idea how they got your information? If they stole one of your cards, it could have been anywhere you used it. But they had two of your cards.
(This is discussed a bit on his first post about it, but my question isn't answered.)
________________________________________________
suwain_2
1: In some cases, the bank *is* the card issuer.
2: Different merchants have different reporting methods/rules. Very few are doing end-of-day batching now -- it's easier to get the confirmation electronically on-the-spot, in which case the details of the charge are immediately sent.
For these two reasons, I routinely see my credit card charges on my bank's on-line banking site (complete with merchant ID or address) within 24 hours.
I have made quite a few on-line purchases. The only time I ever had a problem it was because someone at a gas station double-swiped my card. The bank called me about 30 minutes after the card was used in Hong Kong.
Where to begin.....
First of all, anti-terrorism legislation requires hotels retain a photocopy of your driver's license.
Nope, I just stayed at a Holiday Inn in AL, and a Days Inn in CO, both within the last month. Neither asked for a driver's license.
Second, credit card companies don't get details about a charge for 2-3 days after the charge is made,
BS here too. I can make a purchase anywhere in town, and by the time I get back to my computer, the Name of the store, location, and amount charged are already in my online visa statement through BoA.
I went through similar credit card theft 2 years ago
A lot can change in two years.
Uhhhhh wow. You are certainly sure of yourself. You are WRONG of course, but at least you have conviction.
:-) Whoever you talked to at your CC company doesn't know how it works.
I have personally witnessed, in the last three months, a reputable brand name large chain hotel take a CC# OVER THE PHONE for a party who was checking in. The name on the card given and the name of the party checking in did not match.
Strike one for your "fiction" theory.
I don't know what kind of hokey CC company you have but my CC companies (Discover, Bank One, local issue Debit Card) will show purchases within 60 MINUTES...complete with details. How much, what store and in some cases what items. My wife does it to me allllll the time.
Strike two for your "fiction" theory.
The final nail for your coffin is that this guy is a known person in PERL circles. He isn't some nameless, faceless teen-something trying to feel important.
Strike three, 'yer out.
Wow the spelling and grammer police are out. Way to avoid the subject and write about things that are next to useless. I will leave spelling and grammer to be corrected by the peons as it will give them something to do.
Maybe you need to have credit cards with companies that are up to snuff these days, the current Visa I use is updated the same day (often under an hour) for purchases made before the close of the business day, and whatever else immediately shows up the next day. And I don't mean just a dollar amount, it has the name of the business etc.
It's an overhead you idiot, the single instance may make no discernible difference but the accumulation of those instances does. Any business plan has to take account of fraud, theft, bad debt etc. You may feel proud of your ability to do basic mathematics but you need primers in business and economics 101.
1) I have stayed at that Red Lion in Portland.
;-)
2) I have eaten at that Denny's as well.
3) I have checked my email on the computer in the lobby.
4) A PuTTY icon on the desktop should have clued me in that I should not have checked my email there.
5) Over the next 3 days, my ISP account was used to spam strangers like crazy, before I finally changed my password.
6) This was almost 2 years ago.
Nice to see the Red Lion is still such a hotbed of criminal activity
"Love heals scars love left." -- Henry Rollins
>I've lost $0 in credit card theft, but dealing with the attempts has cost me quite a bit more in time: more than 100 times as much
So, you've lost $0 then?
You're absolutely correct. I'm a named, faced, mid-thirties guy trying to feel important :)
You have a problem with the owner of a credit card having a say in who uses it?
Do let me know what planet you're living on, I'll move there and make whoopee on your credit.
now see, this just means that he would be lazy to let something like this ruin his credit report, with a little bit of persistance you can convince the credit reporting agencies to change your credit report if there is a mistake on it (and anything on the report resulting from this would be a mistake)
1) Initial issuing the tokens or certs is hard and thus must be done with care. Hopefully they would be issued at birth. Issuing the token will require a full background check, here we rely on the current system of 'random personal facts' we also make it a long and painfull process. The system would take note of things like issueing 1000 tokens to the same address. There would be many things looked at before tokens would be issued addresses might only one.
2) If a token becomes compermised Certificate revocation is not a problem.
3) This is where the free market comes in. People would be able to buy a token with the security features they feel are needed. The paranoid might want biometirc tokens, others might be happy with just a key fob. It would be up to you and the vendors that you choose to buy your token from.
4) You are rather hung up on biometerics. True an armed thief could force you to preform the biotmetric operation but he could also take your kids hostage and send you body parts in the mail until you preform his bidding.
Im not saying that an ID system based on PKI is perfect rather I'm saying its orders of magnitude better then what we have today. Today if you know a few random facts about a person, YOUR THEM. While some will say that ID's will always be stolen we should make it hard enough that the average crackhead 16year old can't pull it off.
Since the company that issued credit to someone using fraudulent identification, why are they not held libel due to their negligence? Why is the person who has had their identity stolen responsible for cleaning it up, when the credit issuers are the ones that have ruined it by giving credit to someone using a false ID. Credit issuers are not making enough identity verification if identity theft is occurring.
Please note, the sentence above is sarcastic. I wouldn't normally feel the need to point this out but with your obviously shakey grasp of reality I felt it might help in this instance.
What I want to see happen is someone to commit a large crime, and have a warrant out for their arrest, and then have their identity stolen. The person who stole the identity now has a warrant out for their arrest, and to avoid it they have to convince police that they 'just' stole the person's identity.
Since losing a credit card number in an online purchase to a dbase hacker, I now use MBNA for all of my online shopping. It gives me a new credit card number everytime I use it, for which I can set an arbitrary $ amount before that number is consumed and also any expiration date for out to a year.
I generate new numbers using my browser, and even Safari works on OS X. I rest easy knowing that the particular number is set at just over the amount of my purchase, so even if the cc number was compromised it would have no more value attached.
--
$tar -xvf
1st time you saved your car
With great respect, I don't agree, I saved my life. One was sitting on my car's bumper. The other then two ran towards at me full speed with full length crowbars. You think a raised 4 foot crowbar in the hands of a running attacker just wants to gently ask for my keys?
One hit on the head and bye bye droopus. The police caught the same theives days later after they had bludgeoned a woman into a coma, and stole her car.
Ok here are your choices: feel good about being PC and unarmed, and (God forbid) possibly end up a vegetable in a hospice or on a slab. Or learn to protect yourself, professionally, safely and effectively and live to a ripe old age.
Which do you want to bet your life on?
Do what you feel is right for YOU, all I ask is that you extend me the same courtesy. Unless you threaten me or my family with deadly force (and for NO other reason whatsoever) I wouldn't harm a fly. Fair?
I will admit, training is every bit as important as the decision. I have taken hundreds of hours of training, up to the SWAT level at Blackwater, and am probably better than 90% of AMericans who carry, including cops (many of whom are terrible shots.) Owning and carrying firearms is an awesome responsibility, I do not take it lightly, and unlike the NRA and most gun owners I SUPPORT yearly, tough, proficiency tests, which makes me rather unpopular in the gun world. But that's the way I see it.
It gets even tougher for criminals in my home where I keep my Winchester 1300 SWAT shotgun with 8 rounds of 00 Buck under the bed.
My 180 pound bloodhound, Flop, who can smell an unfamiliar person anywhere near my property and is gun trained is added protection.
NO ONE is going to fuck with my family. And yes, my line of work makes me have reasons to be this secure.
Murderers carry guns too.
Damn right they do. So, we should allow them to be the only ones who do?
If they carry one into my house they get carried out in a body bag, though.
"The pie shall be cut in half and each man shall receive.....death. I'll eat the pie."
Awesome story.
I really hope someone doesn't post a follow up with a url to an urban legend site.
ROTFLMAO....that's great.
I do have a 44 Magnum in my collection though. But a real one (S&W 629 Stainless) not that thing in the movie. They are NASTY weapons, but no cop would carry one.
I also have a 22 with a silencer to practice in the woods out back. (It's legal.) That's a really fun piece.
"The pie shall be cut in half and each man shall receive.....death. I'll eat the pie."
Congratulations on missing the whole point, retard.
Most people don't put condoms on their BALLS, Einstein.
I want my wants in the data base. Myabe some of the collectors will realise not everyone watche CBS from 1900 to 2300 hours each week nite while drinking schludmiller.
Recent case in point; took me two months to find an online record store that had a CD by Patricia Nohva
( Salut Country) , I happened to like a song of hers
( ca va bien) and wanted a copy. Found it at Archambault.ca.
Your either a troll or completely MAD. Plus you'r a dvetising a company that sends private mercenaries to Iraq. But sure its your choice to hide behind the false security of your proffessional pseudo-military training and big gun. I consider myself a reasonable person and agree with the parent poster, if you get mugged just give your stuff and ran away, or if they are threatening throw your wallet or cellphone to the side they will get distracted and run for the items while you are making a getaway. It worked for me several times.
US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
Allow me to fix your words as my brain parses them before I reply:
Okay, now to reply:
We need a national ID system that people can choose to take part of.
We already do. It's called a state driver's license or ID card.
Those taking part could force all credit card transactions or other sensitive transactions to require it. The ID system should be opt-in for each citizen, but required for all information holders.
That would be a bit difficult, and you can bet it will be met with fierce resistance by liberty-minded individuals like myself, and the financial institutions.
Besides, how long is the "opt-in" part going to last? It isn't difficult to find examples where so-called optional things have become effectively mandatory.
It should be based on a PKCS#11 tokens, and allow people to select the token that they like. So, the ultra paranoid (me) can use a biometericlly locked token.
Yeah, mandate the technology so when something better comes along, we're stuck with the old stuff. Not to mention the sheer expense.
The only reason thieves are interested in our personal data is that it allows them to become us. Without that there is no interest and our privacy can return. Forcing the banks to support a common PKI will not be hard: no PKI, no FDIC insurance. That will get all the financial institutions on board. And where they go, everyone will follow.
What does FDIC insurance have to do with credit card fraud and identity theft? You are aware that no FDIC insurance covers credit cards, right? The major credit card institutions aren't even banks. Your bank issues the card, but the card company is not a bank.
Besides, it's not that thieves want to become us, it's just that it makes it easier to steal. No system is thief-proof, and no thief-proof society can be built. There is always a point of weakness.
These people that think we don't need a national identity system are retarded - they don't see that we already have one with all the flaws and none of the protections a good one will give us. A national ID system could stop ID theft, put a huge clamp down on spam, and reduce the value of our personal information thus increasing real privacy levels.
We don't need a national ID system. What we need is for credit cards to be sent via registered mail and for an end to the mailing of unrequested courtesy checks. Additionally, full account numbers should not be printed on account statements. A simple hash of the account number, delivered initially with the registered mail, could easily protect the real number and still identify a statement to an account.
There are plenty of simple solutions that would
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
I stay in hotels 2-3 nights, per week. I'd say about 60% of the time they photocopy my ID. I usually call ahead, book on the phone with credit card (I call, rather than book online, I find I get better deals this way), and then when I show up in person I give them my name and they give me a key. Sometimes they ask for the credit card I used to book, *OR* the method I wish to pay by. So at this point I could give them a *different* credit card, or cash. No ID.
So lets see...
2 habitual criminals...needle freaks...computer literate
who know his name and address...might have seen the geeky looking guy with the shit eating grin in the lobby...or his picture on his blog...or the cops might rub it in
spending some quality time in the clink...with lots of time to dwell on cause and effect...and maybe even his chest thumping blog...meeting lots of nifty new friends
oops.
billy - who suggests at least a 12 gauge
what if your attacker wants no witnesses? You are gambling with your life that your attacker is a rational person? What do you do when there is more than one attacker, you throw your things to one side, and one of them follows you? How are you going to defend yourself against someone who wants you dead or maimed?
Yea, right. I bet it will be difficult to find anyone on this thread that knows you personally to back you up on this. what? Next thing you'll tell me I'm supposed to see Ovid on Sunday...
There are private transactions where the government mandates that an individual provide a business with their SSN, primarily anything taxable, like hiring somebody, or opening a bank account that pays interest, and by now they mandate it for most bank accounts even if they don't pay interest, and they mandate it for any medical transaction involving Medicare or most other government-funded health care.
For transactions where the government does not mandate that a business collect an SSN, they almost never place any restrictions on the business's activities with it, and they don't say that the business can't refuse to deal with you if you don't provide it - you're on your own.
There are a very small number of cases where some government, mostly state, places limits on private use of SSNs, or otherwise insists on some kinds of privacy protection. But in practice, those are usually not effective.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Many grocery stores have their frequent-customer discount cards, which track your purchases if you use them - in my case, "John Doe", who lives at "General Delivery" in my town/zipcode, gets his purchase history recorded, and they're quite happy to correlate my purchases of coffee and Irish whiskey and whipping cream, or tofu and white wine, or tortillas and beer, or catfood and cat litter. No reason for them to know it's me.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Hey, if he's doing that, then he probably doesn't need to buy those pills they keep advertising on the Internet....
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
At least if your address is the same by the time they get out after their grand theft conviction or whatever...
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Your sig speaks volumes. You've obviously never been in a situation where your or your family has been faced with imminent death...not a fucking wallet or cellphone. DEATH. I have. What would you do then, hmm? Beg for mercy, as he gassed up his chainsaw?
I have a daughter whom I love more than life itself. What would you do if you did as well, and someone had a knife to her throat? Talk geopolitical mumbo-jumbo as he cut her carotid? I would drop him in under a second and save what I consider MOST PRECIOUS in my world. You would be placing flowers on her coffin, blaming that asshole in the White House that I like no more than you do. The only difference would be my daughter would be ALIVE. Yours would be dead. But then, of course, you could rationalize it by saying "yes, but I was PC."
I don't know you, and I truly hope you never do face such a situation, but there are a lot of very sick people around who kill cause they think it's "fun." That will never happen to me. It MAY happen to you.
Wanna bet your life on it?
BTW, Blackwater does not provide "mercenaries," they only provide protection services for VIPs in Iraq. Those men hung and burned under the bridge at Fallujah? Blackwater consultants. They gave their lives to protect Paul Bremer. I am enraged we are in Iraq (I HATE Bush) in the first place, but Blackwater is a training school, first and foremost, with worldwide law enforcement their primary clients.
"The pie shall be cut in half and each man shall receive.....death. I'll eat the pie."
I feel really sorry for him. What a waste of time.
/. at 1 AM and you say I waste time?
You're on
Tee hee.
"The pie shall be cut in half and each man shall receive.....death. I'll eat the pie."
At first she got one. Probably even a handsome tip, especially since the "customers" were not giving it from their own money... But usually fraudulent transactions are charged back to the merchant, so the tip basically vanished...
You have a young daughter and you keep a firearm under your pillow?
I think this practice endangers your daughter more than any thief. Please store your firearms in a safe.
People NEVER verify the card holders name to the ID these days so having the actual card stolen from someone is just about as safe.
Maybe it's because our new city police chief (who has reduced car theft by almost 50% in one year), but every time I buy something in town, I always get carded. And every clerk so far has been careful. The only time they don't is when it is something small, usually less than $20.
Granted, we don't have an identify theft or credit card problem around here. Maybe it's because our chief is so awesome and she's got everyone being proactive, though.
Just tonight I ate a good dinner with five and they asked for my ID. They took about 10 seconds to check then recheck it too.
If you're wondering, Federal Way Washington, and yes, there are tech jobs here and in the surrounding areas.
Oh, and the car thefts? She has her boys follow the top car thieves around town, all day, and all night. No special tech, no special investigators. Just footwork. And the bastards are dumb enough to try it anyways, even though they know they are being watched.
Oh, and if you report drugs on the street, they'll post a car in the area at night time. First they track them, then they tag them, and then one night you'll see cop cars busting into houses all over town. Those nights are very quiet except for the police activity. Usually they do it on a Thursday. I guess that's when they find the most stash.
The radical sect of Islam would either see you dead or "reverted" to Islam.
Apparently they've got more important things to worry about than some dubious report about some idiots stealing money from Denny's. I don't blame them.
You obviously didn't RTFA, or this thread. The Denny's piece of the action was only one part of how the trail let to the jerks who were burning up thousands and thousands of dollars of other people's money. And don't think that even if you don't carry a balance on your credit cards - hell, even if you only pay cash for things - that the prices you may for merchandise and services everywhere you go are no impacted by theft (of all sorts, including this kind). If you shrug your shoulders at bad guys, you deserve what you get. But I don't deserve what you get, so straighten up.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
I rtfa'ed but I don't get this.
How do you order breakfast at Denny's without an actual card?
Did they steal a replacement card from his mailbox? They had his cash advance checks so they must have had access to his mail at some point.
Had his old card expired? Are both the old and new cards active at the same time?
Just wondering... Maybe I didn't read clearly.
Keeping information from where it doesn't belong gives cash a VERY high score on my list as well.
You have a young daughter and you keep a firearm under your pillow?
I think this practice endangers your daughter more than any thief. Please store your firearms in a safe.
Good advice, of course. I think you misread...after the kids (my daughter is a young teenager) are asleep, I remove my shotgun from my gun "vault" a steel-doored, locked, toolroom type room where all firearms are kept in a safe, all ammo in another and all magazines in a third. (All the safes are digital, no keys), and only then place it under my bed for the night. It's an 8 shot Winchester 1300, but I do NOT leave one in the chamber. I also have another fingerprint safe hidden in the bedroom closet (digital as well) with a Glock 19, equipped with an M-6 light laser and 2 high cap mags of +P Hydra-Shoks. There is also a loaded Air Taser, with a spare cartridge in the safe, both for my wife to protect the second floor if I go downstairs. My wife gets up in the morning and before she wakes the kids, the shotgun is emptied and goes back in the vault.
And you know what? It don't mean shit. I know I am far more conscious and careful about my firearms than most but the most important thing is to teach my kids proper safety rules. My 4 year old is adamant (and has been taught) that if he is at a friend's house and a gun comes out he is to stop, tell the child to put it away and immediately leave, though not run (that's the most common way kids get shot...running away. If the kid insists on playing with it, he knows to say "hay. lets point it at the ground and see if its loaded"...and he can unload anything (I taught him)... even the largest 1911's.
My daughter has been doing the same for 8 years now. She even comes to the range once in a while but isn't into shooting much.
Safes, of course. Education is the most important though, imo.
Oh, BTW...my pillow? Thats a terrible place for a gun...it's movie shit. I don't think sleeping on a shotgun would be very comfortable, do you. ; ) Under the bed on a wooden sheet covered in felt. hehe
"The pie shall be cut in half and each man shall receive.....death. I'll eat the pie."
Only if his time is worthless. Most of us would not consider our time worthless.
Even at minimum wage (many of here are eigther in school or making considerably more than that, some both) $80 is only 16 hours.
And that's exactly what he said, he said in time he valued his losses at more than 8k. Now admittedly it's eigther hyperboly, or he values his time very highly or he's had a LOT of time spent fixing such issues or most likely some mix of the above.
To anyone else I do realize I've probably just fed a troll, but just in case someone really didn't get it.
Mycroft
https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
Heh. See you Sunday, Mark :)
Thanks Matt. Really, though, many in the /. crowd just want a chance to take someone down a peg. And while my story's true, you have to admit, it's pretty weird. I can understand a few people doubting me.
My 180 pound bloodhound, Flop, who can smell an unfamiliar person anywhere near my property and is gun trained is added protection. Wow, you Americans even train your dogs to use guns. ;-)
"You superiour intellect is no match for our puny weapons" - The Simpsons
It's an overhead you idiot, the single instance may make no discernible difference but the accumulation of those instances does.
How often does someone steal something from a Denny's with a fraudulent credit card transaction? You're acting like it happens often. The fact of the matter is that Denny's is already paying 2 or 3% for every single credit card transaction. That they pay an extra bit when someone is using a stolen card and they don't check the signature isn't a very big deal.
You have a problem with the owner of a credit card having a say in who uses it?
Of course not (then again, you don't own your credit card, the bank does, but besides that). I'm saying that they have no way of knowing for sure that he indeed was the owner of that credit card.
Of course you didn't have to pay, it's a well known fact that that fraud has absolutely no effect on the cost of credit.
You are assuming I have credit card debt with Discover Card. Actually, I do, but it's at 0%. And since this incident, it hasn't gone up.
But usually fraudulent transactions are charged back to the merchant, so the tip basically vanished...
I would think that Denny's still honored the tip (assuming it wasn't ridiculous). Although, it probably is his or her own damn fault for not checking the signature on the card.
Anyway, yeah, it sucks to work for Denny's and rely on people other than your employer to pay you. That's one of the reasons I won't spill any tears over Denny's getting ripped off. Hopefully the "waitress" will get a new job and the Denny's will go out of business. But I doubt it.
You obviously didn't RTFA, or this thread.
You are wrong.
The Denny's piece of the action was only one part of how the trail let to the jerks who were burning up thousands and thousands of dollars of other people's money.
Other corporations' money... In some cases. In one case it was a hotel room that probably would have gone unused if it wasn't for the "identity thieves".
And don't think that even if you don't carry a balance on your credit cards - hell, even if you only pay cash for things - that the prices you may for merchandise and services everywhere you go are no impacted by theft (of all sorts, including this kind).
Not significantly. If the rate of fraud were significant, then you'd see a lot more stores which don't accept credit cards, and you could turn to them to buy your stuff. The credit card companies would eventually go out of business, and the world would be a better place. But it isn't significant.
With one system a single idiot who isn't paid enough to care can really ruin things for you. There are people in India who are having huge problems being recognised as being alive due to various paperwork bungles or fraud. With multiple systems of ID you can recover from identity theft - you have to think of consequences of system failure as well as trying to develop the ultimate system to solve all problems, because it may not successfully do so.
This guy acts like they were stealing the money from him.
Had they not been caught, it is likely that they may have stuck the cardholder with the bill in the end. Merchants don't roll over that easily anymore.
-- $G
I had a few grand taken two years ago - including some genius who paid their car insurance. We got the name, address, account number, phone number all in similar fashion to this story. When faced with all this info from me and the bank security team, and the question "what are you going to do to this felon?"
The Progressive rep's answer was "I guess we'll hafta make them pay cash."
"But they just committed a FEDERAL OFFENSE!"
"Well, even criminals have to buy car insurance."
Verbatim, folks. Ver-freaking-batim.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
The $50 fraud limit needs to be extended to all electronic money trancactions.
Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
Nobody was hurt, I was protected (insured) so I did not lose anything
You may not have lost anything, but the community did. Do you seriously think that the insurance policies wouldn't get more expensive? Let that happen on a wide scale, and the whole insurance business would be broke.
You may live in a part of the world where only true and hardened criminals bear arms. You're certainly lucky for this. Unfortunately, we can't affort this kind of luxury in the US.
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
If everyone did as you suggest, you would be living in an environment where criminals rule. They would KNOW, not just hope, KNOW that no law-abiding citizen would be dangerous to them. All they have to do is pull out their guns and they get money. If everyone throws them money when they show a gun, that would be incentive to keep on doing it. Yes, it's a cliche, but it's the truth: When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. I don't own a gun, but I'm glad many of my friends do.
But why is the rum gone?
Ok, so I'm going way offtopic here...
But when the fuck did people other than restaurant waiting personel (waiter/waitress) start asking for and even expecting tips? I have no problem giving waiters and waitress tips, since they actually a wage that is specifically designed to be supported by tips (which is why they make $2-3 hr, the rest made up by tips, unless they don't at least make minimum wage, which then the employee has to cover the difference).
I see it at salon's/barbershops. I have to tip the bastards now to get a decent haircut. I even had a Sonic "waitress" ask me for a tip. Twice. See this post. Should I start asking for a tip whenever I receive a phone call from a cable modem customer asking for assistance because they can't get online? When will the fucking madness stop?
What you don't take into account, though, is that (most) people don't tell lies for the sake of telling lies: they tell lies in order to reach certain goals.
:)
What would Ovid gain by lying about this? Nothing I can think of. Specifically, he certainly doesn't gain any further reputation out of this. On the other hand, what could he possibly lose if the story was not true and he was found out to have been lying? A lot - namely, said reputation.
Of course, that (losing one's reputation) is a risk people are often (?) willing to take, but only when they actually hope to gain something. If you want to look like a war hero instead of like someone who went AWOL for several months after daddy bought them a nice and relaxed job in the Texas national guard, then you at least have a *reason* to lie.
quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
Had they not been caught, it is likely that they may have stuck the cardholder with the bill in the end. Merchants don't roll over that easily anymore.
They don't have a choice. When you dispute a charge, if the merchant can't produce a receipt with your signature on it, they're SOL.
They phoned in the order to Denny's, then just had to sign the receipt when they picked up the food.
Not sure how they got the convenience checks... who knows.
When most cards expire, they send you a new one.. same number, different exp date. They were using the one with the outdated exp date.
Whoever stated that signature sizes should be limited to one hundred and twenty characters can just go ahead and kiss my
It's imperative that you do use a credit card when you're buying semtex (or other plastic explosives) or anthrax. Just don't use your credit card!
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
anti-terrorism legislation requires hotels retain a photocopy of your driver's license
Can you cite this legislation?
My experience staying in hotels in the US 2-3 times per year post September 11 is that not one has asked to see my identification. Granted, I tend to stay in a more expensive class of hotels than Red Lion, but beyond a valid credit card, they do not verify identity.
Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
i can make a cc purchase across town, go home and pull up my online statement and see the authorization "pending" just a few minutes later. with the name of the business, amount, and the zipcode.
sorry if your cc company sucks, doesnt mean that everyone else's does.
Lots of children swim in this bay (I did swimming lessons there) so we caught it and moved it to another location.
Discover Card has similar capabilities, I think the only difference is that they don't let you set the expiry date. Plus you get cash back on your purchases! (up to 2% if you redeem from one of their "partners" that doubles the reward - I always get Sharper Image gift cards and then sell 'em on eBay)
Second, you're looking at the situation all wrong. I've been on the wrong end of a collection agency's phone calls, just becuase I got some deadbeats old phone number. I gave them the same advice:
Just because you deal with liars all day, doesn't mean that I'm not telling you the truth. You are making harassing phone calls to a completely innocent person. You're harrasing me, and that's against Federal Law. Let's turn this around, I'm calling you to speak with John Doe, he owes me money. "But I'm not John Doe, John Doe doesn't live here you have the wrong number". Well that's what anyone who is getting collected from will say. So I got harrassing phone calls all the time (at times that were when I was sleeping because I live a non-standard schedule, despite Federal Laws that should have protected me from that). In the end, it's what finally got me to just give up my land line. I had no use for it, and having collection agencys calling me wans't working out. The best part, is that collection agencys can't call cell phones. They can't do anything that could cost you more money. So no collect calls, and no cell phones.
Stop and think about the completely honest person completely telling you the truth. They'd give you the indiginate response of: "That person doesn't live here, stop calling me". Just like someone who tells a wild tale about catching an identity thief says: "You can believe me or not, but it still happened". Short of him getting a notarized copy of a police report (all of which would be trivial to fake, how precisely would he prove it to you?).
I still remember you as the irritating fellow who accused me of being an Microsoft Shill (your nickname is memorable, if only because I have 3 of the 4 editions of that book), because I pointed out that a couple of books by "Microsoft Press" had some really good advice. "Code Complete", and "Writing Solid Code" are still pretty damn good books even after all this time (Haven't read the second edition of "Code Complete"). Despite the fact that I gave up using Microsoft products 7-8 years ago, you were quite insistant that I had to be a Microsoft Astroturf'er, and Shill. Even when my posting history is fairly clear I'm not. So go ahead, be a Doubting Thomas, however, I know for an absolute fact, you've jumped to wrong conclusions, and then stuck to them long after it was obvious to anyone aware of the details you were completely wrong. How very Dan Rather like of you...
Kirby
All his web-sites have not come down.
www.bootsix.net informs the reader that he's busy on a video project. Most likely he gave persmission to distribute the story and then really didn't care to talk to random fanboys on the net about it.
It's like writting a fan mail to someone famous, getting a response out of them and then pretending they're dead because they won't continue responding to your letters.
I've done that many times as the reciever of e-mails from random people. I will typically respond to someone once if they contact me through my web-site's form. After that the chance of a response from me drop quickly to zero. Initial response, and then never heard from again. That's the typical MO of people when talking to people they don't know and don't care to know. He answer'd the ZUG guy's question and that's all be felt compelled to be obliged to.
The big mistake that Bobby Johnny made was registering the power book site (which is his own site BTW so another one that isn't shut down) under his own name and home address.
So if the guy wanted to fly across the ocean and whack him, he could. But most likely Bobby just didn't care to continue some long conversation with the ZUG guy and has better things to do as mentioned on his main site; the video project.
But I have to say, assuming he's dead leads to a more interesting ending.
I'd say he's just tired of the fanboys and has moved on with his life.
Work Safe Porn
Ya the smooth talkers have done such a bang up job so far.
I do, however, try to be careful about not letting anyone get information about me they shouldn't and I rarely, if ever, use a credit card online. This is why I was surprised to find out one morning that identity thieves had racked up thousands of dollars one two of my credit cards.
A good sign that the internet is not to blame for all of our problems. It's more likely that someone you gave the card to offline was the one who stole it. It's a lot easier for a petty thief to, for example, jot down your info at a restaurant as they process your card out of view than it is to steal it from some database.
this is my sig
With all due respect for the Europe that I love, I think you've identified the naivete that is responsible for a lot of European pacifism.
Clearly, she should have stayed at home, or hid behind her Maginot Line, or something.
Now before I get modded down, I be to remind whoever might read this that what I am saying is FACT. - bogaboga
Because American Express acts as a clearinghouse for all confirmation (your don't go through a bank, you only go through AmEx), if a merchant gets AmEx confirmation, it's as good as money in his pocket. Visa/MC MAY refuse.
There are companies that will not accept payment from international clients except through wire transfer or AmEx.
No kidding. If I'd have seen him wearing that vest, I would have had no choice but to attempt to assault him, too.
I've never been involved in a shoot situation (though I do carry), but from what I've heard, in the heat of combat, with a moving, bobbing, bouncing, relatively small target (that's shooting back), a clean headshot is mighty difficult. Not that it's not someting to try for - but I personally would probably use the Mozambique drill. Two quick shots in the body, onbe careful head shot. Takes a bit to master, but it's pretty much foolproof (.357 w/125gr JHPs :D) If the baddie isn't armored, the two COM shots should work, and even if he is, they'll give him pause long enough for you to draw a bead on his head.
Of course, then there's the "trunk gun" philosophy; carrying a BFG in your car for a prolonged shootout like the TX incident. Myself, I keep a 7.62x51 semiauto, but that's more in case I get the random desire to stop by the range rather than the possibility of a shootout with armored bad guys.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
Seeing as I've worked almost exclusively with card processing for the last couple of years I think I know that process a bit better than you, and I can guarantee that what you're describing is generally wrong. SOME merchants may only submit RECEIPTS in batches, but any merchant that does online processing of payments - which is most these days (how often do you see them pulling out the old style card rollers?) - will immediately submit the full details to their payment service processor. Now, some PSP's MAY submit only limited information in realtime to the aquirers, and some aquirers may pass on only limited information in realtime to the issuers, but in practice most submit full details these days. I've personally had my bank call me within 5-10 minutes of a transaction for a fraud check (if I've made large purchases that doesn't fit my normal purchase patterns for instance) and had them rattle of the full days worth of charges with exact detail to me for me to verify. What you describe may still hold some places with banks that still haven't upgraded their systems, but it's very much a thing of the past for most credit card users. What I find shocking though, is how often I get calls f from my bank or card companies (from numbers I don't know) and they expect ME to authenticate to THEM by giving out personal details. I find it amazing that they actually want to train their customers to consider such calls "normal". I'm always very skeptical about them, and tend to prefer calling back on a number known to me, but I bet lots of customers aren't.
*=I dunno if Rather lied but he was wrong either way and has certainly paid for it.
The proposition that muggers eliminate witnesses is simply NOT TRUE. The statistics clearly show that resisting makes your many times more likely to get hurt. I mean really all tehy want is your petty posssions. If they get caught, they are likely to get away with probation or light sentencing, if they get caught with not-so carefully planned murder they are scrwed and they know it. Heck, any Aikido expert will tell you that running away is the best option and resisting should be reserved for that 0.00001% when you are backed against the corner by several attackers. I read this guys blog, he is a mad gun nut who is arming himslef to the teeth. Hr claims that its neccessary because of his proffession, dunno maybe he delivers pizza in Harlem or something.
US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
you WILL RTFA. the moral of the story is near the bottom: ALWAYS tear up those stupid cash-advance "checks" that your credit card co. sends.
makes me so happy to hear this because I always rip em up to bits and put half the bits in a trash can and half in the paper recycle.
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
The world is not overrun by criminals and its not because of armed-to-the teath vigilantee citizens. Can we agree to that? We pay taxes to have proffesiinal police to protect us so we can concentrate on what we do best instead of spending countless hours getting proffessional level SWAT training at Blackwater. That plus avoiding dangerous places is more important that any false sense of secuity that carrying a firearm gives you.
US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
Sorry but I have better things to do than fantasize about heroically defending my family against a gang of crazed chainsaw wielding drug junkies. Really I dont live in America, maybe this kind of shit does really happen all the time there. Yet statistically your much more likely to get injured in an auto-accident than than brutally dismembered by psychos. Do you put as much and MORE attention to car and driving safety? Do you have really high blood pressure from being scared and worrying all the time? If you are for real and are this way because of having been traumatizede as a crime victim then please accept my apologies. But I still think that the hours and $$ you put towards your Blackwater training would have been better put into sessions with a good Psychologist. Your are choosing the wrong way to deal with post-traumatic shock.
US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
Nah, just means he wont run away in terror at the sound of a firearm.
I do hate languages. B)
BTW, the best shotguns in the world are English and Italian.
"The pie shall be cut in half and each man shall receive.....death. I'll eat the pie."
being a sales person and dealing with large transactions all day, i am well aquainted with checking IDs. if it says check, i check. if it's not signed, i check. if it's smudged, i check. if there is ANY doubt in my mind, i make some excuse about being severely far sighted and not having my glasses with me...
usually the people offer up the ID without a fuss, some act pleasantly supprised that their credit is being taken seriously. I've only had a few that made a fuss (so far they've all been valid), but i "blame" it on store policy and joke about not wanting to lose my job, and they agree.
and to the GP poster, I work at Bestbuy, not all of us are dumb schmucks.. :)
Rise up in the cafeteria and STAB them with your plastic forks!
Sadly, home invasion in the US is on a steep rise. I truly wish it wasn't, but it happens in every state, every day. While I have reasons to be secure because of my work, you are absolutely right about the car danger as well, which is why I also trained with Skip Barber in defensive driving, racing, and evasive driving. Probably three quarters of the time I trained for firearms, but imvho, defensive driving is a lot easier and carries less personal responsibility than carrying firearms.
And yes I have spent plenty of time on the couch, your advice is quite sound. But if three guys crash through my windows, I'll be holding a shotgun, not my shrink's card.
And as I've said all through this thread, I hope I NEVER have to use any of this training. I just am a strong proponent of preparation.
"The pie shall be cut in half and each man shall receive.....death. I'll eat the pie."
The guy seems to have a level head, rather than trying to confront the people, he simply invetigates, and calls the police. Nothing wrong with that.
But keep this in mind:
The credit card companies called him. GOOD. That is what they are supposed to do. Further, HE wasn't stolen from; the merchants were. The merchants were carless and took risks with credit cards.
Visa/Discover will not pay anyone for the illegal charges, as they can't prove the charges were authorized (with, say, a signature).
Although I'm sure I would try to do the same thing in the same situation, a part of me would want to say "Why should I bother? I use my credit card as a convenience, and fraud protection is one of those conveniences. I don't use it so I can go chasing people around, that's not my problem. The merchants took the risk."
I was picking my truck from an expensive repair ($6000 new engine ruined by a mechanic (their insurance paid for most of it)), and I paid with my credit card. The clerk said I had exceeded my limit. I said no way.
I called the credit card company, and they said also said I exceeded my limit. They told me that on Friday (it was currently Monday) someone had purchased $4000 of computer stuff from a company I had never heard of. They asked if it was my purchase. I said no. They asked if another purchase on Friday at the same computer store for $3000 was mine. I said no. They asked about another purchase for $2000. I said I have never heard of that computer store. The card company seemed a bit confused.
I said that the transactions were fraud. When the heard the f-word, they quickly transferred me to the fraud department. They said they had to check something about the 3 transactions. They said something like "the merchant didn't do something, so we don't have to pay". I suspect that the stuff was to be shipped somewhere other than my address and the merchant didn't ask for the security code on the back of the card, but the credit card company wouldn't say.
They said they have just cancelled my card, and they are mailing me a new card. I said swell, but I have pick up my car. They said they would temporarily raise the credit limit by $6000, and while I was on the phone the clerk should run the card, then they would cancel the card. I told the clerk this (they had been listening since I was using their phone), and they ran the card which accepted the charge. The card was cancelled just after the transasction.
I never found out how the card number was stolen. I did go to Bank of America had them take a picture of me and emboss it on the card. This is great when bying something in person, and completely useless over the phone or internet.
I read this guys blog, he is a mad gun nut who is arming himslef to the teeth. Hr claims that its neccessary because of his proffession, dunno maybe he delivers pizza in Harlem or something.
.32 in my laptop bag. (they are smaller than a deck of cards, and hold 6 .32 hollowpoints.) It bothers me to skirt the law that way, but at least I'll see my kids that night.
Are you referring to me? If not, my apologies. If so, a few problems there.
a) I do very much like, but do not deliver pizza. NY pizza rocks.
b) While my company is in NYC, I live in another state and either telecommute or take the train a few days a week if I must. Of course, I can't carry if I go to NYC.
C) NYC is probably THE most difficult place to even possess a gun. More importantly, almost NO ONE in NYC can get a carry permit, other than diamond dealers. (All those Hasidic guys around 47th street? They are all armed.) Armored car dealers or anyone who handles large sums of money, too, but even then, the restrictions are loony. I always wondered...when they made the NYC gun laws... why are diamonds worth more than human lives?
d) I admit, that when I have had to go to particularly bad areas of the city, I have a few times "mistakenly" dropped a Seecamp
e) I don't have a blog.
f) NYC pizza rocks.
"The pie shall be cut in half and each man shall receive.....death. I'll eat the pie."
I am in not in any way a vigilante. I don't walk the streets looking for crime so I can shoot someone, acting as my own police force. (Perhaps it's a language thing, that's what vigilantism is.)
Let me ask you a question, my friend. Do you have locks? Of course you do. Why? Because statisticially, unless you are lucky enough to live on an island alone, you want to control who comes in your home, correct? Good.
If suddenly, near you, you started to see more and more breakins during the night, would you not strengthen your locks, perhaps put in some lighting? Sure.
I live in the highest per capita income county in the USA. Home invasions and mass family assault have TRIPLED in the last year. Less than a year ago, a house less than a quarter mile away had four men break down the front door with a pickup truck, jumped out, all armed, and killed everyone in the house. They gang raped the wife to death, and then just plain old gang raped the 12 year old girl twins. Then they gutted them like pigs. They loaded anything of value in the truck and drove away. It took eleven minutes.
This horrible case is not the only thing like this to happen in this county. Criminals know there is money and will do stuff like the above without hesitation. I didn't make it that way. Fix it, and I'd gladly find carrying unecessary.
What would I have done? The instant I hear a noise like a car going through a wall, my wife and kids would lock themselves in our bedroom, where my wife would be armed with a Glock 19 out of the safe in the closet. She would hit 911 on the way to the safe. I would get my shotgun, kill all upstairs lighting, and as each guy came to the stairwell, I would ascertain he was armed and he would get two loads of 00 Buckshot from 15 feet. Hamburger. The other three now have a choice: get the hell away, since they will already hear the sirens, or storm the stairs, which again, six shots of 00 Buck would easily handle. If for some horrible reason I went down, or had a malfunction, they would kick in my bedroom door and meet one very pissed off woman with a Glock, a laser sight and 30 Black Talons.
I've just put on really strong locks. As I've been saying...NO ONE fucks with my family.
BTW, the training at Blackwater was fun, intruiging, challenging and I gained a few friends. What's wrong with that?
"The pie shall be cut in half and each man shall receive.....death. I'll eat the pie."
It's real money that the merchants, banks, and card processors have to cough up. Where do you think it comes from? Higher merchandise prices (or, eroded retail margins, and fewer mom-and-pop retailers as a result), higher bank fees, and higher transaction fees. All of that, all of it, trickles down to the paying consumer in one way or the other.
While credit card fraud certainly does trickle down to the consumer, it is most certainly NOT the bank or credit card companies who cough up the money. Not a dime.
If you were a merchant, you would know that every time a credit card transaction is claimed fraudulent by a customer, the credit card processing institution charges back the merchant for the FULL AMOUNT of the questionable transaction plus extra fees (to cover a brief administrative process to find out more details about the transaction from both the customer and the merchant).
So remember this: The cost of EVERY fraudulent credit card transaction is initially passed on ONLY to the merchant - they are the ones who have to cough up the money, so they will be the ones RAISING PRICES to you and me.
Discover card lets you obtain a seperate number for each merchant. The number can be used multiple times by that merchant, but not by anyone else. You get a new Secure number by logging onto Discover and requesting one, or you can have a destop version that stays active for 15 minutes. Works for me.
Carbon Unit # 149-34-xxxx
A double standard is not the same thing as hypocrisy.
And just to add a little more credit, I'm his roomate. Yes its true. You can check my rep if you like. Have fun.
Also the local news boys, KOIN Channel 6, just left. Ovid will be on the news at 11 tonite.
One NYC resident to another...
.22 to plink with. It's possible to own a gun (unloaded, secured carry to/from the range only) if you're willing to deal with 3-4 months of waiting and a couple hundred dollars in permit fees. That just isn't worth it to me, for a hobby.
.32 in my laptop bag. (they are smaller than a deck of cards, and hold 6 .32 hollowpoints.) It bothers me to skirt the law that way, but at least I'll see my kids that night."
"C) NYC is probably THE most difficult place to even possess a gun. More importantly, almost NO ONE in NYC can get a carry permit, other than diamond dealers. (All those Hasidic guys around 47th street? They are all armed.) Armored car dealers or anyone who handles large sums of money, too, but even then, the restrictions are loony. I always wondered...when they made the NYC gun laws... why are diamonds worth more than human lives?"
It's a good observation. Me, I'd love to get a gun for sport shooting. Maybe a shotgun for trap, or a
"d) I admit, that when I have had to go to particularly bad areas of the city, I have a few times "mistakenly" dropped a Seecamp
THIS is the part that I have a problem with: NYC is not particularly dangerous, and it hasn't been for a LONG time. I consider this to be a pretty nasty stereotype that's outlived the truth that created it.
I live in Brooklyn, and hang out everywhere--Midtown, SoHo, Lower Manhattan, Hell's Kitchen, the Village, the LES, the UES, the triple-US, Harlem, the Bronx, Sunnyside, Forest Hills, Park Slope, Ft. Greene, Brownsville, East NY, Willamsburg, Bed-Stuy, Red Hook, Bensonhurst... You get the point. I used the stick to the Village and downtown, but my friends have scattered everywhere in the last couple of years. I think I have a better-than-average taste for what city is like, day and night.
I'm a white boy, not particularly big, with no martial arts training or weightlifting habits. I dress middle-class casual or suit-and-tie, pretty normal for the city. In all the years I've been here, and on all the streets I've prowled, I've never once felt threatened or in real danger of street crime. I know people who have been mugged (mostly years back, but some recently) or assaulted on the street, but only a tiny number of them were injured or seriously threatened (e.g., a gun in the face).
Street crime in NYC is at a low not seen since the 60s. For all the major violent crime categories except sexual assult, it's the safest city in America with more than 1 million people. The whole goddamned town in on a massive gentrification kick, so even the places that were spooky 5 years ago are full of married homos and college kids, now.
I can think of maybe 3 neighborhoods in all of the five boroughs where I would worry about an adult male traveling alone: the Marcy Projects, Brighton Beach, and... well, I was gonna say the South Bronx, but since all those art galleries moved in, it hasn't been the same. Outside of those two spots, you have little to fear if you don't start trouble for yourself. If you're a girl, you have to be more careful, but that's true anywhere to about the same degree. Same for kids and the elderly.
Anyway, all I'm saying is that NYC is generally safe enough these days that it won't be worth getting caught with an unlicensed concealed weapon. 10 or 15 years ago, I could see you weighing the risks and reasonably deciding to carry, permit or no. But not today--that's some serious time for too little additional protection, even if you're otherwise within the law and don't have a record--and Albany's talking about raising the minimum penalties, too.
Why not try carrying a boxcutter or something like that, instead? It was always an effective deterrent when I was a kid in LA (now THAT'S a place I'd carry a gun!), and you won't go to jail for carrying one. Technically, I guess it's a concealed weapon, but it's not a firearm and you can plausibly tell the officer/judge that you just forgot that you had it when you left the house. Or, if you're into that shit, some Mace could help.
"f) NYC pizza rocks."
Of course it does.
You missed the joke. Read it again. 0 times 100 is still 0.
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
Judge: I see you are filing against the police or Victoria's Secret. What is the amount of your actual monetary damages?
bani: Uhhh... uhhhh....
Judge: Did I stutter?
bani: Well, I did not incur any actual monetary damages, Victoria's Secret did.
Judge: Let me get this straight, you are suing Victoria's Secret because they suffered damages?
bani: Well, someone on this website "slashdot" told me I should file in SCC against...
Judge: Get the fuck out of my courtroom you degenerate fuck. Stop wasting my time.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
I applaud the guy for being able to make a policeman move without applying 20,000,000 volts.
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My wife's computer was stolen. We saw her ICQ account pop up online - the thief hadn't even bothered to wipe it. We tracked down the IP, but Patrolman DonutMuncher apparently wasn't interested in even calling the ISP to get an address. It wasn't the computer we cared about but family heirlooms which were stolen at the same time. Unfortunately, police work is sometimes work.
Where we live now, the cops couldn't bother to show up, to, say two thugs threatening to attack a pregnant woman (a racially motivated attack, too) even though they're LEANING AGAINST A SQUAD CAR HALF A BLOCK AWAY.
This guy wants us to believe that he was able to talk cops into going back and forth to arrest these guys? Please tell me where you live, man! I might respect cops again if I can find a jurisdiction in which they actually do work, rather than raping and torturing prostitutes and shooting their wives to avoid paying child support
--- Jump!! Fire!! Bullet time!! - Lego version of the Matrix
You have obviously never filed a lawsuit in small claims court before. Wake me up when you have.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
Sir, that kid is talking out his ass and we know it.
That kid doesn't speak for us, and we congratulate you on your outstanding victory.
I don't think he even read your writeup, or he would have KNOWN that you booked through hotels.com.
> Why can't they have their cake and eat it too? E.g. shoot you in the back right after you start running, and then stop and pick up the money. It's not as if both you and the money are running in opposite directions and they have to choose between them...
The idea is that most thieves don't want your life, just your cash. If you drop the cash and back away, the thief will just collect the cash and beat it. They won't shoot you to stop you, because they don't want to shoot you (if they did, they wouldn't bother with a holdup, they'd just plug you and rifle your pockets). However, this theory has a down side, in that if you're facing someone with a firearm, you don't want to startle them. In that case, drop the cash and back away slowly, and don't worry about the money. Leaving with your health and an empty wallet is better by far than getting shot at.
Virg